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View Full Version : Monica Seles: Martina Hingis was better than me!


hingis-seles
Feb 18th, 2012, 07:59 AM
Monica mentions watching someone younger and better coming up (referring to Martina Hingis!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGgCMzvrXGk&feature=related

From 0:40 or so. :worship:

Steven.
Feb 18th, 2012, 08:39 AM
Martina really failed to live up to her talent. 5 slams doesn't do her justice. :sad:

Chrissie-fan
Feb 18th, 2012, 08:51 AM
Martina really failed to live up to her talent. 5 slams doesn't do her justice. :sad:
Well, she should have had at least seven of course, but five is great. Considering the competition and her body type it's amazing that she could achieve what she did with all those big hitters around.

PLP
Feb 18th, 2012, 08:54 AM
Martina really failed to live up to her talent. 5 slams doesn't do her justice. :sad:

Same for Monica though.
Hingis should have 7-10 and Monica should have 15+

This looked like such a fun exho. Too bad there is know complete video.

Sammo
Feb 18th, 2012, 11:07 AM
Martina should have been one of the greatestof all time...

But meh, so should have been Lucic and look at her now :rolleyes:

NeKo
Feb 18th, 2012, 11:09 AM
I still consider Martina the best female player of all time. Or at least the one who incarnated the true feminine tennis game, a game that still exists, yet rarely shown on the courts now.

Slutiana
Feb 18th, 2012, 11:10 AM
Well yes, Martina was better than post-Gunther Monica. That's a fact. :lol:

hingis-seles
Feb 18th, 2012, 12:18 PM
Well yes, Martina was better than post-Gunther Monica. That's a fact. :lol:

If you listen carefully, she says "When I was playing my best.." so I wonder. Although there was no Tina in sight then. :p

ToopsTame
Feb 18th, 2012, 12:21 PM
You're reading way too much into a passing remark at a press conference for an exhibition. Martina was a great player but let's not go overboard praising her. She had more than a few limitations.

Queenpova
Feb 18th, 2012, 12:31 PM
Martina underarchieved. most talented player ever

barmaid
Feb 18th, 2012, 01:19 PM
I still consider Martina the best female player of all time. Or at least the one who incarnated the true feminine tennis game, a game that still exists, yet rarely shown on the courts now.

Nicely said, yes she should have had a couple of slams more but will always be remembered for the great talent she did exhibit on the court...no one like her!:hearts::worship:

Barmaid:wavey:

Moveyourfeet
Feb 18th, 2012, 01:25 PM
1. Calm down with the Coketina circle jerk
2. Best player ever?? :spit:
3. Seles is better.

pov
Feb 18th, 2012, 02:01 PM
the one who incarnated the true feminine tennis game,
:facepalm: no . . . wait . . . :facepalm::facepalm:

So . . . it's not enough for women to be skilled and successful in their sport - they must do so in a way that matches whatever arbitrary notions of femininity currently hold sway? In your defense sometimes it seems as though the WTA reinforces such notions.

Apoleb
Feb 18th, 2012, 02:07 PM
The Legend of Hingis is totally living up to its name, and this is the thread to prove it. :worship:

Who is greater: Hingis, Dido or Athena?

Anabelcroft
Feb 18th, 2012, 02:09 PM
Martina really failed to live up to her talent. 5 slams doesn't do her justice. :sad:

True,winning her last Slam before Graf won her last is just :help:

Alejandrawrrr
Feb 18th, 2012, 02:15 PM
Lol syke, Monica was a better player. Maybe she means that Martina Hingis was a better matchup for 200 lb post-stabbing Seles - That would be a fair analysis. Coketina's overrated-ness knows no bounds.

Halepsova
Feb 18th, 2012, 02:48 PM
Had Monica not came back as a fat girl in 95, Hingis wouldn't be her problem.

metamorpha
Feb 18th, 2012, 02:57 PM
Seles knew what she's saying. Hingis is really that talented, but the technology favors big hitters.

RCCA
Feb 18th, 2012, 03:36 PM
Monica was generous with her casual remarks, and should be, even if she was probably not correct. The long and short of it is that her troubles with Hingis encapsulate the clear differences between early 90s Seles and post-1993 Seles. Even so she posted some pretty big wins over Hingis.

Sammo
Feb 18th, 2012, 03:48 PM
I think that the Hingis who double bageled Seles in Miami in the year 2000 would have defeated peak Seles in 3 sets :shrug:

Ryan
Feb 18th, 2012, 04:10 PM
Same for Monica though.
Hingis should have 7-10 and Monica should have 15+

This looked like such a fun exho. Too bad there is know complete video.


:sobbing: My biggest tennis regret is some of the Finals Legend lost. :sobbing:

faboozadoo15
Feb 18th, 2012, 04:15 PM
I think that the Hingis who double bageled Seles in Miami in the year 2000 would have defeated peak Seles in 3 sets :shrug:

:facepalm:

Monica had a sprained ankle.

Sammo
Feb 18th, 2012, 04:47 PM
:facepalm:

Monica had a sprained ankle.

Really? I thought that she was just fat :lol:

NeKo
Feb 18th, 2012, 04:55 PM
:facepalm: no . . . wait . . . :facepalm::facepalm:

So . . . it's not enough for women to be skilled and successful in their sport - they must do so in a way that matches whatever arbitrary notions of femininity currently hold sway? In your defense sometimes it seems as though the WTA reinforces such notions.

Depends on what skilled and successful means to you. I was also referring to game style. Now, women tennis is based on power.

treufreund
Feb 18th, 2012, 05:16 PM
Oh for goodness sakes, people they are both great champions. Hingis did not maximize her potential and never got super super fit and then started having a lot of injuries. Monica was clearly hampered by her weight gain. Who was more talented? I don't have any idea but I would lean towards Hingis. Monica was not saying that just to be nice. She played Martina a lot and knew what she could with the ball. This thread is nothing more than another opportunity to argue between fans of all-court players and power players.

Stonerpova
Feb 18th, 2012, 05:25 PM
Monica's such a sweetheart :hug:

No way in hell in Hingis better than her, though.

faboozadoo15
Feb 18th, 2012, 05:30 PM
I have a hard time believing that Seles actually thinks Martina was a better player to her overall, considering she doesn't regard Graf as a superior player to herself. I think it was an offhand self-deprecating remark in good jest.

Seles laid the smack on Martina a few times, while far removed from her own best tennis as well.

Brad[le]y.
Feb 18th, 2012, 05:33 PM
I think that the Hingis who double bageled Seles in Miami in the year 2000 would have defeated peak Seles in 3 sets :shrug:

Hingis wasn't anything special in that match, Monica was just truly horrid in that match due to an injured ankle.

justineheninfan
Feb 18th, 2012, 06:19 PM
Hingis was a better player than Seles from late 96-Seles/Hingis's retirements in late 2002/early 2003. So what she says is hardly a lie. Most of their times on tour together, and once Hingis got out of training diapers she was always better than Seles at that point. Hingis was a better player than Seles for 6 straight years.

However in career greatness it is still Seles >>> Hingis. Hingis failed to ever duplicate the multi year dominance of early 90s Seles, instead managing only a 9 month period of dominance. Hingis also failed to remain competitive into her mid and late 20s as Seles did. Plus 9 slams with what Seles had happen to her vs 5 slams with no similar setbacks. No contest.

Brad[le]y.
Feb 18th, 2012, 06:22 PM
I love Martina, but I think a lot of people here don't realize how good Pre-Stabbing Seles was :lol:

justineheninfan
Feb 18th, 2012, 06:24 PM
I have a hard time believing that Seles actually thinks Martina was a better player to her overall, considering she doesn't regard Graf as a superior player to herself.

Who knows, she might consider Martina better than Graf. :lol: Also I dont think Seles ever suggested or believed for a moment by careers end she ended up as a greater player than Graf. She even admited in 96 her co-#1 ranking was a farce before she lost it by years end, so was basically admitting she had settled into being Graf's inferior by that point; and then remarked again in 1999 how she was envious how Graf was willing to work hard enough to be competitive with the new generation players who she could seemingly find no answers for, and that she just didnt have that same willpower to keep working as hard after all those years. Just more like that deep down she feels she should have been if....which is totally understandable.

Talula
Feb 18th, 2012, 06:38 PM
I loved and miss both. My 2 all time favourites.

Dawn Marie
Feb 18th, 2012, 08:42 PM
Hingis was a cocky lil kid but if were all honest here Martina Hingis had a game that one can only dream of. if u really love the game of tennis. She was fast,smart and was able to execute every shot in the tennis book. Execute shots the way they were made to be.

Dawn Marie
Feb 18th, 2012, 08:46 PM
I have yet to see anyone play the game like Hingis. As much as I like Seles I think Hingis had the better TENNIS GAME. She was just lazy in not wanting to revam and renew with the changing times. She could of put more on her serve but didn't. Her mom had more drive then she did yet Martina had the talent.

justineheninfan
Feb 18th, 2012, 09:06 PM
Hingis had too much too soon and that is what wrecked her in many ways IMO. Some say she was lucky to win so much in a weak transition era, but in fact she might have been unlucky to rise to #1, win all those slams, and dominate so soon due to Graf being out injured and Seles developing love for sweet and fat foods, gaining weight, coping with fathers serious illness, stabbing demons, etc...It became too easy to reach the top and she was led to believe she was already even better than she really was, and she wasted several years of potential improvement and by then it was too late, plus she reacted negatively to her dominance being challenged and some bad losses.

Martian Jeza
Feb 18th, 2012, 09:07 PM
I loved both ( and still do and forever will ) then I won't take part in this debate but I think Martina Hingis used to beat quite regularly Monica Seles when they met each other and I know they both have huge respect for each other ! Monica Seles was the idol of Martina Hingis.

And to those that keep calling Martina Hingis, Coketina : GET A LIFE !

Sombrerero loco
Feb 18th, 2012, 09:28 PM
hingis was the most talented tennis player EVER. yeah she underachieved but still her career is impressive :bowdown:

edificio
Feb 18th, 2012, 10:10 PM
hingis was the most talented tennis player EVER. yeah she underachieved but still her career is impressive :bowdown:

No.

Monica is a nice woman.

SymphonyX
Feb 19th, 2012, 01:39 AM
Seles would hammer her ass to oblivion. I'm sorry Martina, I love you and despite all your prodigious and beautiful technique in playing tennis, Monica is better on paper and on-court.

Martina should've focused more on fitness. Those injuries took a nasty toll on her career.

PLP
Feb 19th, 2012, 03:09 AM
This would have been a great match, peak to peak.

I think I know what Monica means though. It was a great compliment to Hingis nonetheless. Martina was totally blushing.

faboozadoo15
Feb 19th, 2012, 07:14 AM
Who knows, she might consider Martina better than Graf. :lol: Also I dont think Seles ever suggested or believed for a moment by careers end she ended up as a greater player than Graf. She even admited in 96 her co-#1 ranking was a farce before she lost it by years end, so was basically admitting she had settled into being Graf's inferior by that point; and then remarked again in 1999 how she was envious how Graf was willing to work hard enough to be competitive with the new generation players who she could seemingly find no answers for, and that she just didnt have that same willpower to keep working as hard after all those years. Just more like that deep down she feels she should have been if....which is totally understandable.

There are also comments from Graf at one time saying she had no idea how to beat Seles, that she had never played anyone like her, and that she was by far the toughest opponent she ever faced. Her words.

hingis-seles
Feb 19th, 2012, 08:37 AM
Yes, it's interesting that Seles says that Navratilova was her toughest rival although Graf says Seles was her toughest rival. With Hingis, she used to say Davenport was her toughest rival but after retiring she's referred to Serena as her toughest rival. Odd, since Davenport stopped her from winning a lot more big events than Serena.

metamorpha
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:13 AM
Well, not only Davenport. She struggled with Capriati, too. All those big babes gave her trouble back to back and Serena is the best of the pack.

Chrissie-fan
Feb 19th, 2012, 10:55 AM
Seles knew what she's saying. Hingis is really that talented, but the technology favors big hitters.
This.

DemiCrayanhan
Feb 19th, 2012, 11:44 AM
fans of either player can argue this forever. personally, i think it's just unusually pleasant to hear one of the greats make such an ego-less comment.

hingis-seles
Feb 19th, 2012, 02:22 PM
fans of either player can argue this forever. personally, i think it's just unusually pleasant to hear one of the greats make such an ego-less comment.

Also quite rare. Usually, it's Chris and Martina who are that candid in their praise/assessment of each other. Monica's been especially favourable in comments towards Serena and now Martina since her own retirement.

justineheninfan
Feb 19th, 2012, 03:17 PM
There are also comments from Graf at one time saying she had no idea how to beat Seles, that she had never played anyone like her, and that she was by far the toughest opponent she ever faced. Her words.

I believe those comments were after the 1993 Australian Open final. As an outside observer who is not a big fan of either player until that point I am pretty sure Graf always had a feeling of confidence vs Monica, even while Monica was on top. Even as late as 1992 she barely lost to Monica on clay in the French Open final and said afterwords she thought she should have won the match, then destroyed her in the Wimbledon final. However Monica's dominating wins at the U.S Open and WTA Championships, and then her thumping of Graf in the 93 Australian Open final I think really hit home. It was the first time Graf accepted in her mind that Seles was really better than her, and that she really began to fear playing her. Then the horrific stabbing happened, allowing Graf to regain her dominance and all her swagger and all her momentum, and as Monica failed to ever climb on top of an active Graf upon her return to the game, I doubt she ever felt she was inferior to Seles ever again (nor did Seles any longer view herself as superior, evidenced by the lack of confidence she exhibited in their post stabbing matches apart from the 95 U.S Open final perhaps).

As she was never a better player than Hingis in the many years while they were playing one another (their first ever meeting was October 96, and Hingis as Pam Shriver said was the 2nd best player in the World starting in August 96) it would also explain why Monica never felt superior to her, even though career wise she is still the far greater player. Unlike Graf, Seles never got to experience the feeling of being superior to Hingis while they played each other. Even in 1998 when Monica started to finally beat Martina a few times, Martina was still the #1 and Monica the #5 or #8. It might also explain her feelings of Martina vs Steffi, the latter who she atleast experienced feeling superior to for several years, something she never got in the same way while regularly playing Martina.

Dawn Marie
Feb 19th, 2012, 08:18 PM
All great champions are great tennis players. My opinion isnt based on slams or titles. It's based on how the player played the tennis game. Hingis played the game like no other i've seen. Imho Hingis would probably win 20 slams if she was playing in the wooden raquet era. I'm a Venus fan and yes I couldnt stand Hngis cause of her rival with Vee. Yet I've always respected her game. Hingis can come back now and make top 15. Martina played shots that Seles could not hit or play. Hingis could play and execute shots that Seles could hit. If i were a coach I would prefer to coah a player like Hingis. She had the allcourt game. I enjoy players who know how to volley and use the net. :-)

*JR*
Feb 19th, 2012, 11:02 PM
First, let's erase Hamburg '93 (which destroyed Monica's "killer instinct" that had seen her win 8 of the last 11 Slam singles titles B4 that outrage). Then lets wipe away the way the Peter Graf scandals messed with Steffi's mind. They probably wind up around even in singles, like Chrissie and the le, le... err, lefthander did. Of the pre-Open Era legends, Court was probably the only one on the level of the above; sorry tennis historians, but the Lenglens etc. would have likely been outgunned.

Marti might have wound up in an Open Era hypothetical comparison of "greatest fairly small player" with Justine. In other words, either would have needed more size 2B on a par with Monica, Steffi, Serena, Chrissie, and Martina I. Its like saying that Pacman is clearly an alltime great in boxing, but that does not mean he could have handled Ali. (I acknowledge that if Justine hadn't had to battle various illnesses, she'd have had a longer and better career than she did).

================================================== ========================================

justineheninfan
Feb 19th, 2012, 11:47 PM
Then lets wipe away the way the Peter Graf scandals messed with Steffi's mind.

This is pointless. Personal problems, like injuries are part of the game. If we want to award Steffi even more fantasy slams due to her crazy dad lets award Martina an extra 10 slams if she were born an American, didnt have to defect and get used to a whole new lifestyle and fear being deported for awhile, and didnt have to manage coming out as a lesbian as well. Lets give Serena an extra 5 slams due to her extended slump where she won only 2 slams in 5 years after her sisters murder. An un precedented event like a stabbing is totally different. If Monica's dad had died in 1993 instead and largely due to the depression of that she won only 2 slams from 1993-1996 as a result like as is now, nobody other than desperate fans would be saying anything about it today. You have compassion for people who go through these things (or even what Steffi went through with her idiot father, but that isnt anywhere near the level of a family member dieing anyway) but they are never used as a way to reason they deserved more than they won. The stabbing is a unique case that cant be compared to any other.

petkoan
Feb 19th, 2012, 11:52 PM
clap. clap everyone

http://tennis.com/galleries/gallery/News/201202191146423999228-p2@stats.com.jpg

Matt01
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:00 AM
This is pointless. Personal problems, like injuries are part of the game. If we want to award Steffi even more fantasy slams due to her crazy dad lets award Martina an extra 10 slams if she were born an American, didnt have to defect and get used to a whole new lifestyle and fear being deported for awhile, and didnt have to manage coming out as a lesbian as well. Lets give Serena an extra 5 slams due to her extended slump where she won only 2 slams in 5 years after her sisters murder. An un precedented event like a stabbing is totally different. If Monica's dad had died in 1993 instead and largely due to the depression of that she won only 2 slams from 1993-1996 as a result like as is now, nobody other than desperate fans would be saying anything about it today. You have compassion for people who go through these things (or even what Steffi went through with her idiot father, but that isnt anywhere near the level of a family member dieing anyway) but they are never used as a way to reason they deserved more than they won. The stabbing is a unique case that cant be compared to any other.


I told you excatly this a while ago while you were argueing against me. Glad to see that you changed your mind.

*JR*
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:34 AM
This is pointless. Personal problems, like injuries are part of the game.

I totally agree with you on this point, and thus don't say "if only Jen hadn't gone AWOL for most of the nineties, etc". The mention of Peter Graf was only to appease those who argue that Monica's actual (not potential) injury from Parche's knife wasn't "devastating" in a physical sense, an old debate here.

B4 Hamburg, a teenage Monica won 8 of the 14 Slams she entered, including 8 of the 11 thru the '03 AO, a truly awesome feat. The pre-Hamburg Monica was a totally different competitor, giving opponents "consolation flowers" B4 matches. The one who returned lacked that (no pun intended) "killer instinct".

My main point above was that "all other things being equal", a Hingis (or Henin) without a size disadvantage would have been on a more level playing field with the big guns of the Open Era. The Pacquiao-Ali comparison is of course extreme, as weight differences mean more in boxing (so even a Lennox Lewis would have beaten Pacman) but this is just a metaphor.

Helen Lawson
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:52 AM
Does anyone see the irony that Steffi's dad went to jail for trying to save her money, but if what Arantxa is saying its true, her dad should go to jail for stealing hers?

Sammo
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:27 AM
clap. clap everyone

http://tennis.com/galleries/gallery/News/201202191146423999228-p2@stats.com.jpg

Ow :hearts: She was in Doha too?

justineheninfan
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:32 AM
I told you excatly this a while ago while you were argueing against me. Glad to see that you changed your mind.

I never stated otherwise. Given your general lack of intelligence there are a number of possabilities at hand here:

1. You were talking to someone else yet with your sketchy memory somehow remember it as me.

2. Your reading comprehension was once again a fail, aka you interpreting something I didnt say.

3. Your presuming just because I do not go along with your extremist Seles views (eg- Seles was easily capable of beating Graf at Wimbledon despite the glaring evidence otherwise, Seles was certain to be the best ever without the stabbing, Seles was certain to be the best player the entire remainder of the decade had she not been stabbed) means I am of the other side- a Graf extremist. Neither happens to be true.


PS- I didnt even bother noting it at the time, but now that I come across you by unfortunate chance, I noticed on the Clijsters vs Sanchez thread you arguing Arantxa's 4 slam runner ups as being worth much more than Kim's 3 WTA Championships. Given that you stated Seles's 1990 was better than Graf's because of the WTA Championships (and Miami which is far less important than the WTA final, especialy back then) despite Graf's 2 extra slam finals and infinitely superior slam record that year, better W-L record and more tournament wins, shows once again what a huge hypocrite you are. You also stated matter of fact a slam runner up > a WTA Championship title which would make it even more evident Graf's 1990 >>> Seles's 1990 by YOUR newly claimed standards, yet you vigorously argued otherwise in the past despite this. Atleast pick values and stick to them, regardless which player you like more and you might be taken seriously by someone here someday. I wont even get started into your arguing Wozniacki's New Haven and Dubai wins as big titles, yet dismissing any value of even much bigger non slam tournaments than those for other players (Clijsters, Kvitova, and many others).

Matt01
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Won't even bother with all those lies above :yawn:

justineheninfan
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:55 AM
Won't even bother with all those lies above :yawn:

Predictable remark when you are cornered and have no way out but to admit you were caught. Typical. I would be happy to post past quotes of yours to prove NOTHING I said was a lie. You are in fact are the one who lied about me arguing against what I just said (or very poorly interpreted what I said in a past conversation, or remembered wrongly, take your choice).

We did meet in an early round of the biggest TWAT contest last year and you crushed me 7-6, 6-1, 6-0. A few rounds later you barely lost a heartbreatker to the legendary TWAT madmax, going to 8-6 in the 5th set, the eventual bronze medal winner. That is the one place you can successfuly own me on these boards. :lol:

Smitten
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:48 AM
Of course we know that Legend is the best player of all time. That's why we call her Legend. There is no shame in Seles speaking the truth here. It's a good thing that she did not throw any praise on local players like Bagelie.

Seles has nothing to be ashamed of. She is far from local, but Legend is just too good.

http://i41.tinypic.com/mv6e81.gif

Smitten
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:49 AM
clap. clap everyone

http://tennis.com/galleries/gallery/News/201202191146423999228-p2@stats.com.jpg

Beautiful.

hingisGOAT
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:02 AM
OMG do I ever just LOVE that Rome match. After dropping the first, Hingis takes back the lead in the h2h, and wins her last ever match against Venus (or either WS for that matter) in two quick sets :drool: That match shut up many obnoxious Venus fans :lol: I remember Knizzle coming out of hiding to proclaim Venus' long awaited "dominance" over Hingis after that pathetic chokefest in Warsaw. Two weeks later he was nowhere to be found...

metamorpha
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:22 AM
When Hingis won Rome in 2006, chair umpire Romano Grilotti said something to her during handshake... I want to know what he said to her. People have so much appreciation to Ms. Hingis.

doomsday
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:35 AM
OMG do I ever just LOVE that Rome match. After dropping the first, Hingis takes back the lead in the h2h, and wins her last ever match against Venus (or either WS for that matter) in two quick sets :drool: That match shut up many obnoxious Venus fans :lol: I remember Knizzle coming out of hiding to proclaim Venus' long awaited "dominance" over Hingis after that pathetic chokefest in Warsaw. Two weeks later he was nowhere to be found...

Are you talking about the match Venus sprayed like crazy because she was severely injured :lol: very relevant match.

Clijsters28
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:48 AM
Are you talking about the match Venus sprayed like crazy because she was severely injured :lol: very relevant match.

Irrelevant is the word to use for Venus on clay, healthy or not. Probably doesnt even rank as a top 10 clay courter of her own era, one of the worst clay court eras ever. Her greatness is completely based on her grass and decotruf performances. Wimbledon, the U.S Open, and the Olympics are already enough to ensure her legacy and place in history rank above Hingis and her Australian Opens and consistency. Defending a defeat by her on clay is both futile and unneccessary.

Not that Hingis is some stellar clay court guru either. A player like Henin would be handing out bakery products to Hingis or Venus on clay in their mutual primes. The two players who have amassed 0 French Opens amongst their 12 Grand Slams are not to be revered for their clay court prowess.

Matt01
Feb 20th, 2012, 11:44 AM
3. Your presuming just because I do not go along with your extremist Seles views (eg- Seles was easily capable of beating Graf at Wimbledon despite the glaring evidence otherwise, Seles was certain to be the best ever without the stabbing, Seles was certain to be the best player the entire remainder of the decade had she not been stabbed) means I am of the other side- a Graf extremist. Neither happens to be true.


Just in case there are still some people who believe you and your lies: http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=18833731&postcount=148

You're so pathetic :tape:

Now good luck finding a quote from me where I said that Seles without the stabbing would have easily beaten Graf on grass or would have been the greatest ever :lol: (hint: you don't need to bother because you won't find one).

Alejandrawrrr
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Are you talking about the match Venus sprayed like crazy because she was severely injured :lol: very relevant match.

You're talking to a Hingis fan, ie: the people who boast about matches in which the other player hits 40+ unforced errors(in 14 games :o) and call it a THRASHING!

Martian Jeza
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:10 PM
You're talking to a Hingis fan, ie: the people who boast about matches in which the other player hits 40+ unforced errors(in 14 games :o) and call it a THRASHING!

If you do insinuate that Martina Hingis was a pusher, you know NOTHING about tennis ! You are just another ( censored ) glory hunting troll.

Apoleb
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:20 PM
You're talking to a Hingis fan, ie: the people who boast about matches in which the other player hits 40+ unforced errors(in 14 games :o) and call it a THRASHING!

They are the perfect opportunity for anthropologist to study myth/"legend" development among early humans. Don't forget that they claim that Myth was some unbeatable GOAT indoors. :rolls:

The Dawntreader
Feb 20th, 2012, 01:27 PM
They are the perfect opportunity for anthropologist to study myth/"legend" development among early humans. Don't forget that they claim that Myth was some unbeatable GOAT indoors. :rolls:

So unbeatable that she was losing to Raymond indoors. In front of her home crowd to boot. Such an untouchable, awe-inspiring GOAT legend.

Sammo
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:53 PM
She still has a better indoors record than your favourite :lol: Whoever she is.

AliceMariaRenka
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:58 PM
Does it matter anymore? I don't think so!

justineheninfan
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:26 PM
Just in case there are still some people who believe you and your lies: http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=18833731&postcount=148


Once again reading comprehension is one of your major fails. I was referring to that I believe Seles had ample opportunity in her post stabbing career to turn things around and failed to do so, and should not be given a free pass for not changing things she could have changed. She did make the choice to return to a professional sport after all. However what Graf achieved (especialy at Roland Garros and to some degree the U.S Open) while Seles was out from 93-95 is definitely tainted, which I never disputed in your proposed quote. Besides what happened upon Seles's return doesnt even relate much to Graf, she had only one dominant year- 1996, it relates more to other players.

justineheninfan
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:30 PM
They are the perfect opportunity for anthropologist to study myth/"legend" development among early humans. Don't forget that they claim that Myth was some unbeatable GOAT indoors. :rolls:

Yes Hingistards can be annoying in many ways but this is one of the biggest. An indoor GOAT who was mostly dominated by prime Davenport (aka excluding any match before 1998), and for all the Davenport indoor hype Davenport herself a ONE time only WTA Championship winner indoors, and at her peak lost matches to Coetzer, Raymond, and several other rather obscure opponents indoors. I remember when I suggested Henin at her best would have the slight edge over Hingis indoors, and Sharapova would be an even call, the Hingistards blew one of the biggest tizzies as if I were talking about Navratilova indoors. Never mind that Henin defended her WTA Championship title, something Hingis was never good enough to do. Delusional bunch.

Sammo
Feb 20th, 2012, 03:33 PM
Yes Hingistards can be annoying in many ways but this is one of the biggest. An indoor GOAT who was mostly dominated by prime Davenport (aka excluding any match before 1998), herself a ONE time only WTA Championship winner indoors, especialy on indoor carpet, and at her peak lost matches to Coetzer, Raymond, and several other rather obscure opponents indoors. I remember when I suggested Henin at her best would have the slight edge over Hingis indoors, and Sharapova would be an even call, the Hingistards blew one of the biggest tizzies as if I were talking about Navratilova indoors. Never mind that Henin defended her WTA Championship title, something Hingis was never good enough to do. Delusional bunch.

She won twice the Year End Championships, 1998 and 2000.

hingis-seles
Feb 20th, 2012, 04:12 PM
She won twice the Year End Championships, 1998 and 2000.

He was talking about Davenport, who only won in 1999.

Sammo
Feb 20th, 2012, 04:58 PM
He was talking about Davenport, who only won in 1999.

I thought the same but as the sentence was introduced by 'herself' I decided he was talking about Hingis :shrug:

tennisbum79
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:07 PM
Seles sometimes is too humble to a fault.

dsanders06
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:34 PM
Peak Seles reached a level of tennis that Hingis could only dream of.

BUT, with that said, I do think peak Hingis would probably have beaten peak Seles more often than not, purely because of what a bad match-up it is for Monica. Think of it like the Bartoli-Radwanska match-up (obviously Hingis and Seles are both far and away ahead of those two, but I think Bartoli/Radwanska have an equal distance between them as Seles/Hingis do): just like Bartoli will probably end up with the better career and gives more trouble to most of the elite players, yet Radwanska owns their match-up, I just think peak Hingis would've been able to chase down most of Monica's angled shots and additionally been able to exploit Monica's poor movement, even at her best.

VishaalMaria
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:36 PM
OMG do I ever just LOVE that Rome match. After dropping the first, Hingis takes back the lead in the h2h, and wins her last ever match against Venus (or either WS for that matter) in two quick sets :drool: That match shut up many obnoxious Venus fans :lol: I remember Knizzle coming out of hiding to proclaim Venus' long awaited "dominance" over Hingis after that pathetic chokefest in Warsaw. Two weeks later he was nowhere to be found...

And the 7 over 5 slam count always seems to shut you up.

Matt01
Feb 20th, 2012, 05:51 PM
Peak Seles reached a level of tennis that Hingis could only dream of.

BUT, with that said, I do think peak Hingis would probably have beaten peak Seles more often than not, purely because of what a bad match-up it is for Monica. Think of it like the Bartoli-Radwanska match-up (obviously Hingis and Seles are both far and away ahead of those two, but I think Bartoli/Radwanska have an equal distance between them as Seles/Hingis do): just like Bartoli will probably end up with the better career and gives more trouble to most of the elite players, yet Radwanska owns their match-up, I just think peak Hingis would've been able to chase down most of Monica's angled shots and additionally been able to exploit Monica's poor movement, even at her best.


You are making some good points (this time) but peak Monica did not have poor movement.

Smitten
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:00 PM
Using the Raymond loss to discredit Legend's indoor record. As if Raymond, at the time, was a scrub on fast surfaces.

Everyone has had bad indoor losses in their career. Legend's indoor record and titles speak for themselves. She won Tokyo, Zurich, YEC, Philadelphia, and a number of Tier IIs indoors.

Remember that your favorite is less talented, not as pretty, and not as legendary as Legend.

Apoleb
Feb 20th, 2012, 06:58 PM
. I remember when I suggested Henin at her best would have the slight edge over Hingis indoors, and Sharapova would be an even call, the Hingistards blew one of the biggest tizzies as if I were talking about Navratilova indoors. Never mind that Henin defended her WTA Championship title, something Hingis was never good enough to do. Delusional bunch.

IKR, as if the puffball Myth put in the service box could withstand the 06-07 YEC Justine return. :rolls:

The Dawntreader
Feb 20th, 2012, 08:08 PM
Using the Raymond loss to discredit Legend's indoor record. As if Raymond, at the time, was a scrub on fast surfaces.

Everyone has had bad indoor losses in their career. Legend's indoor record and titles speak for themselves. She won Tokyo, Zurich, YEC, Philadelphia, and a number of Tier IIs indoors.

Remember that your favorite is less talented, not as pretty, and not as legendary as Legend.

So did Davenport.

The Dawntreader
Feb 20th, 2012, 08:10 PM
You are making some good points (this time) but peak Monica did not have poor movement.

Good anticipation, bad footspeed. Hingis was an expert at yanking Seles around on the baseline, and redirecting her backhand up the line, and thus wrong-footing and out-maneveuring Seles often. Something even Graf couldn't do consistently.

justineheninfan
Feb 20th, 2012, 09:12 PM
Peak Seles reached a level of tennis that Hingis could only dream of.

BUT, with that said, I do think peak Hingis would probably have beaten peak Seles more often than not, purely because of what a bad match-up it is for Monica. Think of it like the Bartoli-Radwanska match-up (obviously Hingis and Seles are both far and away ahead of those two, but I think Bartoli/Radwanska have an equal distance between them as Seles/Hingis do): just like Bartoli will probably end up with the better career and gives more trouble to most of the elite players, yet Radwanska owns their match-up, I just think peak Hingis would've been able to chase down most of Monica's angled shots and additionally been able to exploit Monica's poor movement, even at her best.

I agree with this. Peak Seles is easily the better player, but would still have problems with Hingis since Hingis just seemed to read her game so well, moved her around effectively even while generally getting overpowered at times, and almost seemed to be designed to play Seles. There is no non power player who had a game anywhere near as effective for playing Seles as Hingis.

RCCA
Feb 21st, 2012, 02:36 AM
Peak Seles and peak Hingis never came closer than 4 years from each other on a tennis court. It would have been a nice thing to see.

LeRoy.
Feb 21st, 2012, 03:39 AM
Peak Seles would crush Peak Hingis 6-1 6-1. :yawn:

TNT96
Feb 21st, 2012, 04:12 AM
Hingis could beat Seles badly at the end of Sele's career, but Seles had a better overall career n my opinion.
9 slams versus 5 and Seles won multiple slams at ever major except Wimbledon where Hingis one once.
I think Selea had greater fight in Slams.

pascal77
Feb 21st, 2012, 04:41 AM
Hingis and Seles have respect for each other, and they are good friends. So those perverted Graf's fans dont bother coming here to stir sth up. just take the rest of your life to justify her so-called 22 slams.

pascal77
Feb 21st, 2012, 04:50 AM
FYI, except wimbeldon, Hingis has won everything about tennis. she really lives up to her name -Martina.

tracytracy22
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:29 AM
FYI, except wimbeldon, Hingis has won everything about tennis. she really lives up to her name -Martina.

Um..FYI, she did win wimbledon. She didnt win the french. And she didnt really live up to her name - extremely talented, but lazy and ended up kinda under-acheiving.

tracytracy22
Feb 21st, 2012, 07:35 AM
Im not really a tennis expert but can someone answer two questions please :)

1 - Would peak hingis really have had a tought time against peak seles. I mean I'm not saying seles is bad or anything - she did have a great return, but her serve wasn't that overwhelming, was it? Hingis struggled against people like venus, serena and davenport - huge power, huge serves and returns, and great movers (except davenport). But monica wasn't THAT great a mover was she? Hitting with 2 hands on both sides woud kind of put her at a disadvantage, especially against someone like hingis who can produce sharp angles.

2 - Last question. Would peak henin crush peak hingis as badly as people say she would? I always thought in a way the clay would help hingis - soakes up henins power and wouldnt hingis' loopy topspin forehand (if she gets it deep to backhand)help her? I know it would also soak hingis power (well she doesnt really have much of it anyways...). Also I remember somone saying hingis would give henin a tough time because she constantly varies the pace, spin and height of shots, which would be effective on clay because of the funny bounces.

Thanks alot!

Ludosarasota
Feb 22nd, 2012, 12:30 PM
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