PDA

View Full Version : "Honor Killings Perpetrators" (of 4 female relatives) Found Guilty and Sentenced


tennisbum79
Jan 29th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Interesting how people move to western countries and still clinging raising their children according to the strict rules of the country of origin

And why is that Canada seems to be a place where many of these killings tend to happen.

Just a couple of years ago, it happened in an Indian family where a girl's uncle killed her for marrying, listen to to this, another Indian back in India, because he was the wrong kind of Indian.


All these families feel they are completely justified and found it offensive they are even being accused of a crime.
They claim they did nothing wrong, perpetrated no crime, committed no killing





Afghans sentenced in Canada 'honor killings'



By Kenneth Jackson (AFP) – 4 hours ago
KINGSTON, Canada — An Afghan immigrant couple and their son were found guilty in a Canadian court Sunday of first degree murder in the 2009 "honor killing" deaths of four female family members, and sentenced to 25 years in prison.
The jury in Kingston, Ontario, deliberated for two days before pronouncing a guilty sentence against Mohammad Shafia, 58, his 42-year-old wife Tooba Mahommad Yahya and their 21-year-old son Hamed.


Their defense attorneys said they would appeal the convictions.
Judge Robert Maranger called the crimes "heinous" as he sentenced the accused to 25 years in prison, and said the evidence clearly supported the charges.
"The apparent reason behind these cold-blooded, shameful murders was that the four completely innocent victims offended your completely twisted concept of honor," the judge said.


"It's a sick notion of honor that has no place in a civilized society."
Mohammad Shafia replied: "We are not criminals. We are not murderers. We didn't commit murder. This is unjust."


"I am not a murderer. I am a mother," echoed Tooba Yahya.
The three defendants were found guilty of the deaths of the couple's three daughters and Shafia's first wife in his polygamous marriage after a four-month-long trial that heard dozens of witnesses testify.
The bodies of the victims -- Zainab Shafia, 19; Sahar Shafia, 17; Geeti Shafia, 13; and Rona Amir Mohammad, 50 -- were found in a car submerged in a canal lock near Kingston, Ontario in June 2009.


Court testimony told of an abusive home gripped by fear and where the victims received frequent death threats, in part over the fact that the two eldest daughters had boyfriends without their father's approval.
Prosecutors argued throughout the four-month trial the murders were staged as an accident by the accused to cover up what they called an honor killing.


They said the victims were drowned or rendered unconscious before being put in a car and then pushed into the water.
It was argued that in the eyes of the father the three girls had damaged the family's reputation with their indiscretions, such as wearing revealing clothing and telling school officials of alleged abuse at home.


Crown attorney Laurie Lacelle said in her closing arguments that the goal was to "remove the diseased limb" from the family tree.


The defense, however, maintained the deaths were accidental and a result of the eldest daughter going on a joyride. They contend Zainab took the car in the middle of the night while the family slept at a Kingston motel overnight where they stopped to rest returning to Montreal from a trip to Niagara Falls.


Shafia and his family had come to Canada in 2007, after living in Australia, Pakistan and Dubai over the previous 15 years.


On the morning of the deaths, a car was discovered underwater at the upper lock at Kingston Mills with the four bodies inside. A post-mortem examination indicated they died of drowning.
Canada has seen 13 such killings -- which are more common in countries in the Middle East and South Asia -- since 2002, Amin Muhammed, a psychiatry professor at Memorial University in Saint John's, Newfoundland, said in October.


Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iGArDARylva1L_XM0tGGMVJV5E1g?docId=CNG.67cbf ef4d909156f171eab37379d833d.471

Helen Lawson
Jan 30th, 2012, 12:11 AM
i've been reading about this crime and feel like we're missing something, but I can't figure out what. I think it's easy to get into Canada than a lot of other Western countries and less discrimination than in Europe, so a lot of refugee types end up in Canada. I know this is true of those seeking to leave the Caribbean.

If what they were doing they thought was so right and they were not criminals, why was it covered up like any other brutal crime, something else I find odd.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2012, 12:24 AM
i've been reading about this crime and feel like we're missing something, but I can't figure out what. I think it's easy to get into Canada than a lot of other Western countries and less discrimination than in Europe, so a lot of refugee types end up in Canada. I know this is true of those seeking to leave the Caribbean.

If what they were doing they thought was so right and they were not criminals, why was it covered up like any other brutal crime, something else I find odd.
Hmmmm, how would an immigration official, in Canada or elsewhere, spot a family likely to commit these crimes, especially if the crimes takes place many years have the immigrant have been living in their new country.

I agree we are missing something, but not sure it is the Canadian more liberal/"humane" immigration process.

Helen Lawson
Jan 30th, 2012, 12:48 AM
I thought you were wondering why these bizarre crimes are always in Canada as opposed to the US, I think it's immigration is easier in Canada so there's more Indian and Middle Eastern immigrants there so there are more of these "cultural" crimes because more people from these countries are in Canada and not the US, I don't think there's anything odd about the immigration process itself just that it's easier to get into Canada.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2012, 01:06 AM
I thought you were wondering why these bizarre crimes are always in Canada as opposed to the US, I think it's immigration is easier in Canada so there's more Indian and Middle Eastern immigrants there so there are more of these "cultural" crimes because more people from these countries are in Canada and not the US, I don't think there's anything odd about the immigration process itself just that it's easier to get into Canada.
Ok. Let me try to understand your point.
Are you saying the high number of new immigrants of certain group living in their own enclave breeds isolation from the new country's native and their "dos" and "donts", therefore making it easy to practice the old country customs and feel perfectly OK with it?

But I was responding to your inferred causality between ease of getting into Canada and the relatively high number of "cultural" crimes in the country by immigrants.

gentenaire
Jan 30th, 2012, 07:09 AM
It's not only happening in Canada. These things occur too frequently over here as well.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2012, 05:55 PM
It's not only happening in Canada. These things occur too frequently over here as well.
When you say here, what country are you referring to?


There was ever a reason to strip an new immigrant of their citizenship and deported back to where they came from, this would be right up there.
These people complained that their daughter were too westernized?

What did they expect in moving to a western with young kids?
A mother participating in killing her own biological children is hard to believe, but she did.

pov
Jan 30th, 2012, 07:02 PM
Prosecutors argued throughout the four-month trial the murders were staged as an accident by the accused to cover up what they called an honor killing.


They said the victims were drowned or rendered unconscious before being put in a car and then pushed into the water.

Hmmm . . . I dunno about this. In the "honor killings" I've read about the family wasn't trying to make it look like an accident. Some of them weren't even too keen about hiding it. And . . . this just doesn't . . . nah . .. not buying it.

What sucks is that 4 people were killed and that whether this couple really did it or not . . . people will believe they did because that was the official verdict.

Kart
Jan 30th, 2012, 10:43 PM
Honour killings occur throughout the Western world.

If you think they don't happen in the US then you're either utterly naive or your murder detectives need to update their knowledge and investigative skills.

Unfortunately this is what happens when people uproot from one culture to another. It's not always happy families just because you've reached the land of the free.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2012, 11:19 PM
Honour killings occur throughout the Western world.

If you think they don't happen in the US then you're either utterly naive or your murder detectives need to update their knowledge and investigative skills.

Unfortunately this is what happens when people uproot from one culture to another. It's not always happy families just because you've reached the land of the free.
I never say they did not happen in the US, I say there seem to happen more in Canada. 13 killings since 2003

Helen Lawson
Jan 30th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Ok. Let me try to understand your point.
Are you saying the high number of new immigrants of certain group living in their own enclave breeds isolation from the new country's native and their "dos" and "donts", therefore making it easy to practice the old country customs and feel perfectly OK with it?

But I was responding to your inferred causality between ease of getting into Canada and the relatively high number of "cultural" crimes in the country by immigrants.

I meant the latter. I think a lot of foreigners from those countries do live in enclaves in the US, Nashville is one for Somalis I think, don't think it's that.

wta_zuperfann
Jan 30th, 2012, 11:46 PM
We've had similar unhappy events here in the Twin cities when some of these immigrants came here under Bush. Therefore, nobody can blame liberals though it remains fashionable and politically correct to do so.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2012, 11:48 PM
I meant the latter. I think a lot of foreigners from those countries do live in enclaves in the US, Nashville is one for Somalis I think, don't think it's that.
OK

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2012, 11:54 PM
We've had similar unhappy events here in the Twin cities when some of these immigrants came here under Bush. Therefore, nobody can blame liberals though it remains fashionable and politically correct to do so.
Prompted by some posters, I google honor killing in the US.

What I found disturbing was, there was large number of articles, many on FOXNews.com, that tended to blame liberals or feminist for not reporting on or being outraged by "honor killings.

Often, there is so much animosity toward liberals in the story's coverage the story itself is only relegated to few pages of shallow reporting.

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2012, 01:10 PM
The couple had three daughters, the last of whom was born three months ago, said Khanabad district police chief Sufi Habib.

After the youngest daughter was born, Mohammed blamed his wife for not being able to deliver a boy, Habib said.


This is what happened when people are kept uneducated or conditioned to be skeptical on any scientific knowledge.

Why does he think his wife have anything to with the sex selection of his children?

He wants to play that game, here we go
What about his own sperm?
Perhaps his sperm content "was too weak or lazy to find boy in the millions of eggs his wife offer him"

HippityHop
Jan 31st, 2012, 01:31 PM
We've had similar unhappy events here in the Twin cities when some of these immigrants came here under Bush. Therefore, nobody can blame liberals though it remains fashionable and politically correct to do so.

Are you making the argument that those who came her under Bush should have been denied entry or that they should now be deported? :confused:

HippityHop
Jan 31st, 2012, 01:34 PM
This is what happened when people are kept uneducated or conditioned to be skeptical on any scientific knowledge.

Why does he think his wife have anything to with the sex selection of his children?

He wants to play that game, here we go
What about his own sperm?
Perhaps his sperm content "was too weak or lazy to find boy in the millions of eggs his wife offer him"

I hate the use and overuse of this smiley :facepalm:. But since this is in quotes, please tell me that you gleaned this from somewhere else. Unless biology has drastically changed in the last few years, women don't produce "millions" of eggs. :help:

pov
Jan 31st, 2012, 02:24 PM
:eek: It's scary that, other than myself, all the posters in this thread assume the couple did actually do it. Yeah I know prosecutors are always unbiased and focused on the facts rather on winning their case in any way they can, the quality of the lawyers involved doesn't affect outcomes, juries are always correct and Middle Easterners aren't stereotyped in anyways that would influence a jury but still . .

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2012, 03:30 PM
I hate the use and overuse of this smiley :facepalm:. But since this is in quotes, please tell me that you gleaned this from somewhere else. Unless biology has drastically changed in the last few years, women don't produce "millions" of eggs. :help:
It is a figurative speech to signify several.

But technically, women are born with 1.5-2 million eggs, and the number depletes as they age.
This woman is relatively young, and should have a sizable supply of eggs.

Now that is cleared up, the bigger point I am making is to rebut the man husband idiotic statement ( see below) by an equally idiotic one .
The quotes are my doing, pushes the statement as if someone were directly speaking to him, an "in your face" kind of way


After the youngest daughter was born, Mohammed blamed his wife for not being able to deliver a boy, Habib said.

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2012, 03:32 PM
:eek: It's scary that, other than myself, all the posters in this thread assume the couple did actually do it. Yeah I know prosecutors are always unbiased and focused on the facts rather on winning their case in any way they can, the quality of the lawyers involved doesn't affect outcomes, juries are always correct and Middle Easterners aren't stereotyped in anyways that would influence a jury but still . .
Why do you think they did not do it?

Did you see anything in the court testimony that makes you question the jury's decision?

Expat
Jan 31st, 2012, 03:42 PM
I am sorry but what universe does the OP live in? Just because someone immigrates to the West doesn't mean that they will forget their "culture and values". But I have observed that this occurs more frequently in western countries where multiculturalism is encouraged. However this occurs in all countries including America.

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2012, 03:57 PM
I am sorry but what universe does the OP live in? Just because someone immigrates to the West doesn't mean that they will forget their "culture and values". But I have observed that this occurs more frequently in western countries where multiculturalism is encouraged. However this occurs in all countries including America.
Back to blaming multiculturalism and liberals for things immigrants do to their own family members.

You have become so predictable.


So why does it occurs in India, Pakistan, middle east? Liberal and multiculturalism?
You need to find another boogeyman to blame, this twin monster-headed line of liberal-multiculturalism is getting old is tedious


If you know very well that western culture pauses an existential threat to your "culture and value" (as you put it) to the point of wiping out your entire family, then don't come to the west.

Expat
Jan 31st, 2012, 04:10 PM
Back to blaming multiculturalism and liberals for things immigrants do to their own family members.

You have become so predictable.


So why does it occurs in India, Pakistan, middle east? Liberal and multiculturalism?
You need to find another boogeyman to balme, this twin monster-headed line of liberal-multiculturalism is getting old is tedious

It occurs in India, Pakistan etc. because its a part of their culture. When encouraged in the West as a consequence of multiculturalism it will occur more frequently than in a country where immigrant culture is strongly discouraged.


If you know very well that western culture pauses an existential threat to your "culture and value" (as you put it) to the point of wiping out your entire family, then don't come to the west.
I agree.