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Kart
Jan 16th, 2012, 01:48 PM
With the imminent closure of the political sub-forum, subsequent political discourse can continue in this thread.

All threads created in non-tennis that are related to European politics will be merged into this thread and you are therefore encouraged to try and make your contributions confluent with the direction of flow of discussion.

If a large amount of the discussion is about one country's politics alone then applications can be made to the forum moderator to create a thread for that country's political discussion alone.

*JR*
Jan 16th, 2012, 08:48 PM
Let me ask a question of the Europeans here. Do you only feel like a Frenchie, German, Italian, etc; or do you also feel like a European in any meaningful sense? (If so, in what way?) And do you also feel a sense of identity based on the part of your country you're from?

pla
Jan 16th, 2012, 10:41 PM
Is it "European" for the continent or just the EU? If it's for the continent do we count Armenia in? :oh:

pla
Jan 16th, 2012, 10:45 PM
Let me ask a question of the Europeans here. Do you only feel like a Frenchie, German, Italian, etc; or do you also feel like a European in any meaningful sense? (If so, in what way?) And do you also feel a sense of identity based on the part of your country you're from?

Yes, I feel European. And yes, very strong regional identification. Thrace is where the better Bulgarians come from http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g382/Sherri_SoutoFerri/trollemoticon.png

pierce85
Jan 16th, 2012, 10:46 PM
Let me ask a question of the Europeans here. Do you only feel like a Frenchie, German, Italian, etc; or do you also feel like a European in any meaningful sense? (If so, in what way?) And do you also feel a sense of identity based on the part of your country you're from?

To answer your question , some years ago I felt really proud to be european and I had this sense of European identity. Europe is after all the richest continent historically , an amalgam of great civilizations and culturally diverse nations.


The past years, though , this sense of identity has diminished, mostly due to the politics the nations follow. With Germany constantly trying to be the economic hegemon of Europe and patronizing other nations, UK being part of a Union even though they don't wanna be and having a negative attitude towards everything and France creating and changing alliances every now and then you realize that the word "Union" is being ridiculed and loses its meaning. All of the European nations have become parts of a Union just to promote their agenda.

Of course the 3 aforementioned countries should not take all the blame, every country has their share of responsibility (my country has a big share of responsibility too for its ridiculous economic policy), but these countries are the Big 3 that shape the European policy

pla
Jan 16th, 2012, 10:56 PM
pierce85, I am not very pleased by the politicians' decisions as of the last.. hm, decade. But how does it change your European feeling? Can you elaborate please? I am curious what can lead to this. It doesn't change anything for me, my European feeling just makes me sadder for the countries which are in big trouble and I wish them to get better. I don't know, it's like me feeling less Bulgarian because we have Batman as a PM :lol:

KournikovaFan91
Jan 31st, 2012, 12:18 AM
The past years, though , this sense of identity has diminished, mostly due to the politics the nations follow. With Germany constantly trying to be the economic hegemon of Europe and patronizing other nations, UK being part of a Union even though they don't wanna be and having a negative attitude towards everything and France creating and changing alliances every now and then you realize that the word "Union" is being ridiculed and loses its meaning. All of the European nations have become parts of a Union just to promote their agenda.



I agree, its basically Germany's way or that's it these days, they want everyone to abide by their policies and ways of doing things.

France have lost all credibility under Sarkozy, he is so far up Merkle's arse its unreal. The sooner he gets the boot the better.

The neoliberal leadership of Europe right now is killing it. But hopefully like how South American suffered at the hands of neoliberals there will be a surge against them and leaders who actually want to make better lives for their citizens will be elected.

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2012, 12:45 AM
Let me throw in a softball question.


Over the years, in the US, speaking another language besides English has become liability for politicians here.
French is the most despised, so much so, those politician who know would never admit it.
Even those with French last name are not immune from this

More recently, Chinese has joined that list of Un-american language.
IN 2004, republicans attacked presidential candidate John Kerry, for not only looking french, but he spoke the language.
This year, rival republican candidate surrogates attacked candidate John Huntsman, former US ambassador to China and fluent in Mandarin for speaking the language.
They put together an ad of the ambassador speaking Chinese with chinese music in background.

Politician would gladly speak Spanish and/and run advertisement in Spanish when in campaigning heavily populated Spanish speaking areas.
But the minute they get away from that, they start attacking the people who speak the language.



In Europe, is there such a dichotomy where a foreig language become "untouchable".

KournikovaFan91
Jan 31st, 2012, 01:09 AM
No, well I don't think so, not in Ireland anyway, personally I would admire a politician who could speak a second/third language (many speak Irish which is hardly useful internationally).

Halardfan
Feb 3rd, 2012, 02:18 AM
The issue of an independent Scotland continues to rumble on...

Apparently the SNP would look to keep the Pound and the Queen, which chips away in my opinion at the need for independence.

Financial reports show that at times when oil is booming Scotland will do well from independence, but it's overreliance on oil will be a major difficultly at leaner times.

There would have to be painstaking negotiations in the event of a yes vote...about what belongs to who, about how much of the national debt Scotland will be taking with it.

The trouble with referendums is that a lot depends on how a question is phrased, polls show differences of several
points depending simply on how you ask the question. Which is why an independent body should set the question.

KournikovaFan91
Feb 3rd, 2012, 08:19 PM
I see that awful woman Michelle Mone wants to keep the union :lol: Pity her marriage union didn't last if she is so fond of unions :rolleyes:

AdeyC
Feb 3rd, 2012, 11:35 PM
UK being part of a Union even though they don't wanna be and having a negative attitude towards everything

Well if the UK was given a referendum on membership we'd overwhelmingly vote to leave.

KournikovaFan91
Feb 4th, 2012, 02:31 AM
The EU have basically killed Malev Hungarian Airlines causing job losses in Hungary, a country already suffering. Congrats again Brussels.

Now Ryanair tries to look like a fucking angel by saying they'll employ the Malev staff :rolleyes: Pilots however have been encouraged to apply to work at Emirates or Qatar Airways on some pilot forums I have seen. It would mean leaving Hungary but Ryanair have not guaranteed the Malev staff they would be based in Budapest if employed by Ryanair. As you can see I despise Ryanair.

My personal opinion on subsidies is that unless the people of a country have an issue with the government giving companies subsidies then the government should be permitted to give them. The EU on the other hand would rather Europe is just full of Ryanairs and Easyjets. Who gives a fuck about workers or any customer service provided the market isn't tampered with :mad:

Unfortunately I never had the privilege to fly Malev but I heard today it was quite a nice airline, its also unfortunate those Sukhoi Superjets won't get built. :sad: They'd ordered 15.

*JR*
Feb 11th, 2012, 02:27 PM
General strike in Greece (yesterday and today) though the unions know the harsh austerity measures will pass anyway. :shrug: They should seize most of the assets of the families of the late shipping magnates Aristotle Onassis and Stavros Niarchos, as their kids had like zero to do with making the money anyway. :boxing:

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/qwjMOZStfedxVOoH_dfEnw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00Njg7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2012-02-10T131508Z_1500351047_LR2E82A10SY2V_RTRMADP_3_GREE CE.JPG

hellas719
Feb 15th, 2012, 04:13 AM
They should seize most of the assets of the families of the late shipping magnates Aristotle Onassis and Stavros Niarchos, as their kids had like zero to do with making the money anyway. :boxing:

]

:spit:

tennisbum79
Feb 20th, 2012, 12:49 AM
US economy is doing much better than EU countries, I remember their leaders questioning Obama's stimulus and bailout.

I read that only Germany has a positive outlook in the near future, how is England and France doing?

pierce85
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:38 AM
US economy is doing much better than EU country, I remember their leader questioning Obama's stimulus and bailout.

I read that only Germany has a positive outlook in the near future, how is England and France doing?

EU is not a country, it's an economic and political Union comprised of many countries. And whom do you mean by their leader, I'm confused

hellas719
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:39 AM
This whole situation in Greece is such a mess :facepalm:
So many people to blame, including ourselves :rolleyes:

I remember the days when Greece was the safest country in the EU and Athens was the safest capital city in the EU. Those days are over. Now, some parents in Athens even have to put their kids up for adoption because they've been out of work for at least a year and are running out of money :o. I remember the days when money was not a problem for anyone in Greece. Everyone lived well and was happy and had pride in our country. Now it's so depressing and things will never be the way they used to be :sad:. There is no future in Greece. The rich are all moving out. So that leaves the old, the poor, and illegal immigrants. The future of Greece will be made up of impoverished people dying in the streets and old people dying in nursing homes :o

tennisbum79
Feb 20th, 2012, 02:44 AM
EU is not a country, it's an economic and political Union comprised of many countries. And whom do you mean by their leader, I'm confused
I know it is not a country, and it is not just a political Union, it is also, most importantly, an Economic Union
I meant leaders, especially Sarkozy, Merkel and Cameron.

When the crisis first hit the world economy, the European leaders were grumbling that the US was dragging the world economy to recession by using stimulus and bailout as a remedy.

Hope this clears up the confusion and am waiting for your comments

Halardfan
Feb 28th, 2012, 08:57 AM
Depressing to see Alex Salmond getting pally with Rupert Murdoch...

He had the Tories in his pockets and that at least made a grim sense...then new Labour sold it's soul to Murdoch and that was depressing, and now Salmond, laying the groundwork for his future possible independent Scotland, sees nothing wrong in courting Murdoch.

All this as the revelations of the corruption of the Murdoch Empire come through day after day.

*JR*
Feb 28th, 2012, 01:01 PM
...and now Salmond, laying the groundwork for his future possible independent Scotland, sees nothing wrong in courting Murdoch.

All this as the revelations of the corruption of the Murdoch Empire come through day after day.

Maybe Gerry and Martin should too, laying the groundwork for a united Ireland. :rocker:

BTW, will the current bribery scandal sink The Sun, like the phone hacking did with The News of the World? :scratch:

Maybe that Parliamentary inquiry needs 2B resumed, and a guy with better aim needs to throw a pie @ Rupert. Though this time not when Louise Mensch Milf :hearts: (blonde standing in the vid) is just starting to question him.

rmJfUeR8T58

BTW, this may have been Murdoch wife Wendi Deng's audition for a Mixed Martial Arts career. :p

Halardfan
Feb 28th, 2012, 02:49 PM
Maybe Gerry and Martin should too, laying the groundwork for a united Ireland. :rocker:

BTW, will the current bribery scandal sink The Sun, like the phone hacking did with The News of the World? :scratch:

Maybe that Parliamentary inquiry needs 2B resumed, and a guy with better aim needs to throw a pie @ Rupert. Though this time not when Louise Mensch Milf :hearts: (blonde standing in the vid) is just starting to question him.

rmJfUeR8T58

BTW, this may have been Murdoch wife Wendi Deng's audition for a Mixed Martial Arts career. :p

Murdoch is incredibly slippery and still has friends in high places, so don't put it past him to get out of this...people were counting him out, but then he has just successfully launched the Sun on Sunday, in the eye of the storm. The Sun, regretfully has millions of loyal readers and it knows them very well.

That said the scale and reach of News International's corruption has been breathtaking and it looks certain to drag more down with it.

*JR*
Mar 13th, 2012, 10:18 PM
Rebekah Brooks arrested in News International phone-tapping sweep
By Dylan Stableford | The Cutline – 7 hrs ago

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/eEyZDGTyBrnluXaNRhwLyg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thecutline/murdoch-brooks-ap.jpg

Murdoch and Brooks in London on July 10, 2011. (AP)

Rebekah Brooks, the former News of the World editor and News International chief was among six people arrested Tuesday in the U.K.'s ongoing phone-hacking investigation. Brooks was also arrested in July shortly after news of the phone-hacking scandal broke. She was reportedly taken into custody at her Oxfordshire, England, home along with her husband. News International did not immediately return a request seeking comment.

The Metropolitan police said they arrested a total of six people on "suspicion of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice," part of the Met's Operation Weeting investigation. According to London's Guardian, all six are currently being interviewed. In July, Brooks was held for 48 hours before her release. Police questioned her but did not charge her with a crime at the time.

"A number of addresses connected to the arrests are being searched," Scotland Yard said in a statement. "Today's operation follows consultation with the Crown Prosecution Service." A total of 23 people have been arrested since the phone-hacking investigation began last year.

Last month, James Murdoch—son of News Corp. chairman Rupert Murdoch—stepped down as head of News International, renewing speculation that he, too, could be arrested in the case. But Murdoch, who relocated to New York earlier this year, was not among the five men arrested Tuesday.

(She should also be arrested for that Peppermint Perm) :devil:

KournikovaFan91
Mar 14th, 2012, 04:45 AM
Can't say I'm sorry to see that happen.

HippityHop
Mar 14th, 2012, 02:32 PM
To answer your question , some years ago I felt really proud to be european and I had this sense of European identity. Europe is after all the richest continent historically , an amalgam of great civilizations and culturally diverse nations.


The past years, though , this sense of identity has diminished, mostly due to the politics the nations follow. With Germany constantly trying to be the economic hegemon of Europe and patronizing other nations, UK being part of a Union even though they don't wanna be and having a negative attitude towards everything and France creating and changing alliances every now and then you realize that the word "Union" is being ridiculed and loses its meaning. All of the European nations have become parts of a Union just to promote their agenda.

Of course the 3 aforementioned countries should not take all the blame, every country has their share of responsibility (my country has a big share of responsibility too for its ridiculous economic policy), but these countries are the Big 3 that shape the European policy

It's my understanding that Germany has been the only country (correct me if I'm wrong) to live withing it's means. Apparently they are also the primary backers of all the bailouts of troubled EU economies. If that's true why should be folks who screwed up their own economies be mad at Germany? (other than jealousy, of course.)

KournikovaFan91
Mar 14th, 2012, 03:04 PM
It's my understanding that Germany has been the only country (correct me if I'm wrong) to live withing it's means. Apparently they are also the primary backers of all the bailouts of troubled EU economies. If that's true why should be folks who screwed up their own economies be mad at Germany? (other than jealousy, of course.)


Because Germany wants everyone to live the way they live and frankly Greece, Spain, Ireland and Portugal can't adopt that culture, most of Europe can't, plus German banks had no issue lending to those four countries and now they want to bitch about the consequences. They should take responsibility for their actions too.

HippityHop
Mar 14th, 2012, 03:42 PM
Because Germany wants everyone to live the way they live and frankly Greece, Spain, Ireland and Portugal can't adopt that culture, most of Europe can't, plus German banks had no issue lending to those four countries and now they want to bitch about the consequences. They should take responsibility for their actions too.

Please elaborate about Germany wanting everyone to live they way they live.

I agree that they should take responsibility. One of the ways you do that is if you've been burned by folks you lent to, you stop lending to those who burned you. But if they don't that's on them.

*JR*
Mar 15th, 2012, 03:15 AM
(Hey Nike, don't fuck with the Irish) :tape:

Nike ‘Black and Tans’ Sneaker Accidentally Incites Outrage From Irish Community

By Melissa Knowles | Trending Now – 10 hrs ago

The name of a new Nike sneaker has people upset in Ireland. The footwear giant accidentally insulted the Irish while trying to honor the country leading up to St. Patrick's Day.

The Nike SB Black and Tan Quickstrike is named after a black and tan colored alcoholic beverage made by mixing stout and lager--usually Guinness and Harp or Bass--in a pint glass. Even though Guinness and Harp are Irish, it is not a drink that is commonly requested in bars in Ireland. In the 1920s, a British paramilitary group, known as the "Black & Tans," used brutality to suppress an armed Irish Revolution, and it was known for its ruthless attacks against Irish civilians.

The president of the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform, Ciaran Staunton, said the name of the shoe "would be the American equivalent of calling a sneaker 'the Al Qaeda.'" Staunton added, "Is there no one at Nike able to Google Black and Tan?"

Nike issued an apology for inadvertently upsetting people in Ireland, saying "no offense was intended." Nike officials also told FoxNews.com that the official name of the sneakers is 'Nike SB Dunk Low' and that the shoes were "unofficially named by some using a phrase that can be viewed as inappropriate and insensitive."

Many people on social media are echoing Staunton, saying that Nike should have simply put the name "black and tan" in an Internet search engine to figure out the sinister connotation behind it. Even Atlanta news anchor Mark Hayes tweeted that "Nike put its foot in its mouth and now they are scrambling to do some damage control!"

Halardfan
Mar 15th, 2012, 03:40 AM
The president of the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform, Ciaran Staunton, said the name of the shoe "would be the American equivalent of calling a sneaker 'the Al Qaeda.'"

Or the British equivalent of calling a trainer "the IRA".

KournikovaFan91
Mar 15th, 2012, 05:27 AM
Nike just like Ben and Jerrys should use fucking Google in future. :rolleyes:

Black and Tan is not commonly consumed in Ireland as a drink. In fact I have never once seen or heard a person who drinks it, here its called a Pint Special or a Blacksmith, NEVER a Black and Tan.

Also the Black and Tans were state endorsed the IRA, I won't go into the debate of how much worse it is when a alleged "democracy" is sponsoring terrorism and the murder of civilians.

Halardfan
Mar 15th, 2012, 07:23 AM
Nike just like Ben and Jerrys should use fucking Google in future. :rolleyes:

Black and Tan is not commonly consumed in Ireland as a drink. In fact I have never once seen or heard a person who drinks it, here its called a Pint Special or a Blacksmith, NEVER a Black and Tan.

Also the Black and Tans were state endorsed the IRA, I won't go into the debate of how much worse it is when a alleged "democracy" is sponsoring terrorism and the murder of civilians.

I don't think it's better or worse, both are grim, vile and murderous. Such is the legacy of the Black and Tan's, and such is the legacy of the IRA.

Sam L
Mar 21st, 2012, 12:39 PM
I know there's the European politics thread but I'm too lazy to look up. Just wondering who is the frontrunner at the moment. Why is Le Pen in the news again? Worrying. Are the Socialists (Hollande) going to win?

I know there are two stages. When is the first stage starting?

Bartosh
Mar 21st, 2012, 01:56 PM
It's not the same Le Pen as always :p It's Marine Le Pen - daughter of Jean-Marie Le Pen :tape:

and I guess Hollande is going win easily in a second ballot after loosing slightly in the first round of voting :) but I'm not French so I might be wrong :p

frenchie
Mar 22nd, 2012, 01:39 AM
Hollande and Sarkozy are even at the moment, depends on the survey.
Marine Le Pen is pretty high too.

Who cares anyway, as if our lives are going to change.....

Bayo
Mar 22nd, 2012, 01:40 AM
I'm curious what French media are saying about how the tragic events in Toulouse might affect the election. I heard several radio interviews on my way home this evening, and much of the discussion speculated over a potential upswing in anti-immigration politics.

ys
Mar 22nd, 2012, 02:12 AM
Spent last weekend in France. Talked to people. My parisians sounded very much anti-Sarkozy, saying me very seriously "Of course we are against him. It's you, Americans, who installed him". Then talked to a group from Toulouse ( happened about the same time the events in Toulouse were happening , none of us knew about that at that point ). And they were very much anti-Hollande - ( "He is cheap idiot. If he raises taxes for rich as he suggested, it will be a disaster, who ever would pay such taxes, of course , the rich would leave France" )

KournikovaFan91
Mar 22nd, 2012, 08:13 AM
I feel that the King will retain power unfortunately :rolleyes:

WowWow
Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:34 PM
I still can't get over Sego's defeat, so this time around I don't really care.

*JR*
Mar 22nd, 2012, 03:53 PM
I still can't get over Sego's defeat, so this time around I don't really care.

Ze MILF Zegolene :bigcry:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
March 19, 2012, 5:07 p.m. ET

French Leftist's Surge Forces Hollande Further Left :woohoo:

By GABRIELE PARUSSINI

PARIS—A Communist-backed :rocker: politician is surging in this year's French presidential campaign, shaking up the expected two-horse race pitting incumbent Nicolas Sarkozy against Socialist Party candidate François Hollande.

Jean-Luc Mélenchon, who leads a hard-left coalition that includes the once-moribund French Communist Party, is gaining traction with calls to reject austerity measures springing from Europe's sovereign debt crisis through "civic uprising."

Mr. Mélenchon's rise in polls—he is now credited with as much as 11% of the vote, compared with half that level two months ago—has forced Mr. Hollande to veer to the left ahead of the April 22 election. In the same poll, Mr. Hollande came in at 27% and Mr. Sarkozy 27.5%.

In recent weeks, Mr. Hollande has proposed increasing the top income-tax bracket to 75% from 41% for people earning more than €1 million ($1.3 million) a year, and forcing French banks to exit tax havens. :yeah:

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303812904577291802099898774.html

fantic
Mar 22nd, 2012, 06:33 PM
France is pretty conservative..their conservative are pretty extreme..

Consider what happened when the Popular Front won the election in 1936(Leon Blum gov)..the rich just moved their money abroad :tape: Typical case of class interest over national interest.
The history of the 3rd Republic is not lefty AT ALL...

The popular image that France is lefty and that they espouse equality and fraternity is an illusion :tape: Their intl. politics is just realpolitik..you know, the 'pragmatic' approach? Pretty hypocrite too in many cases(They didn't return a national treasure what they had stolen from Korea).

Bartosh
Mar 22nd, 2012, 06:47 PM
Are you for real with that? I don't know how many countries are more liberal than France - this number must be under 10 for sure. In all countries there are people who have conservative views but it doesn't mean the country is conservative in general :shrug: And 'pragmatic' approach to international politics is used everywhere, France is no exception :shrug:

fantic
Mar 22nd, 2012, 08:23 PM
yes I'm real. The history of France in the 19th Century and of the 3rd Republic is best epitomized as; 'the FAILURE of the Left'

The 'lefty' image of France is pretty exaggerated imo. I don't think France was that 'lefty' compared to Spain in the 1930s either :lol:

Bartosh
Mar 22nd, 2012, 08:25 PM
even if it's not that liberal as it seems I wouldn't call France conservative :shrug:

frenchie
Mar 22nd, 2012, 09:32 PM
In french we say "choisir entre la peste et le choléra!"

So in the second round i'll vote for Sarkozy against Hollande.

LoveFifteen
Mar 22nd, 2012, 10:03 PM
My parisians sounded very much anti-Sarkozy, saying me very seriously "Of course we are against him. It's you, Americans, who installed him".

How on earth did Americans install President Sarkozy? :unsure:

Your friends sound really stupid.

Nicolas
Mar 22nd, 2012, 10:08 PM
Sarkozy will be re-elected :hysteric: i already called it when Hollande was 18 pts higher in the polls.... ill stand by my prediction

Vikapower
Mar 22nd, 2012, 11:34 PM
Why speak about french politics in english :shrug: I've never spoken politics in english so I don't really know how the terms totally work but we'll see :hysteric:

Who cares anyway, as if our lives are going to change.....

In today's state in which the world is it's impossible to don't care -- you say our lives can not change but that's a lie, it can change and it can change for the worst you see like Greece so I wouldn't say I don't care.

The goal is to limit the extent at which that 'worst' is going to be -- anybody who thinks things will be like in paradise is completely delusional, these are false hopes, things will be worst/bad but to which degree/level ? --

The next 5 years are going to be determinant for the country and this must be one of the most important elections in balance though with 2002 when Jean-Marie Le Pen had made the second round against Chirac somehow because of high abstention.

France has pretty much been protected from the crisis, it's like our system who wants that and we have not yet adopted any kind of 'rigor plan' to my knowledge -- though the government loves to play on/with words. We'll see how things go.

I still can't get over Sego's defeat, so this time around I don't really care.

Well as a 'Royaliste' myself, I wasn't too disturbed by Segolène's defeat. Her discourse/program etc. was getting pretty old IMO and she was like almost repeating what she was already saying back in 2006.

After Jospin and his terrible defeat in 2002, she was really the one incarnating the socialists' party for me --



As for Sarkozy and his politics for rich people, the first things he did as a president was take pleasures on a yacht, marry/get/find a top model, buy $15 000 swatch watches from a political stand point, make fiscal gifts to the rich people/enterprises etc. etc. etc. etc. --

The "faker" then came on Canal plus saying that he had discovered enterprises like Total etc. weren't paying any kind of taxes in France, who the freaking hell is going to believe that when himself was/is at the initiative of exonerating the multi-billion dollars enterprises by practicing a politic for them who according to him would then by so in return create work/economical impulsion by (re-) investing massively in France ?

Not only his plan failed but the enterprises are not even staying in France despite the 'fiscal' advantages he gave them -- on the contrary they keep running away by massively doing 'social plans' (plan social, licenciement massif etc...) and/or re-localizing this even when they're making big benefices.

ranfurly
Mar 23rd, 2012, 12:08 AM
Im voting for Edith Piaf.

Edith for president!

Martian Jeza
Mar 23rd, 2012, 02:16 AM
I'm voting for Marine Le Pen ! Well if I could vote... Hollande and Sarkozy, that's the same : they are globalists and are/will destroy France...

*JR*
Mar 23rd, 2012, 02:19 AM
Not only his plan failed but the enterprises are not even staying in France despite the 'fiscal' advantages he gave them -- on the contrary they keep running away by massively doing 'social plans' (plan social, licenciement massif etc...) and/or re-localizing this even when they're making big benefices.

The Froggies need to invade MON to recover zee hidden loot. :boxing: And LUX. And of course SUI, plus its petit appendage of LIE. The tax havens can give the hidden money back, or their leaders can go to le guillotine. :armed:

Blu€
Mar 23rd, 2012, 03:10 AM
I'm voting for Marine Le Pen ! Well if I could vote...

Thank god you can't :scared:

ys
Mar 23rd, 2012, 04:03 AM
How on earth did Americans install President Sarkozy? :unsure:

Your friends sound really stupid.

I know, they are liberals. And the liberals are always the easiest victims of media brainwashing as in Western world the liberal media are highly prevalent.

Yet, I am in agreement with a thought that sounded in this thread. France is no more liberal than other western countries. But Paris is. Easily. I talk to many people from Provence, Bordeaux, French South west, Savoy. And I easily understand wh, for instance, Provencal people vote Le Pen. Because what he says related to how they live.

fantic
Mar 23rd, 2012, 04:17 AM
I know, they are liberals. And the liberals are always the easiest victims of media brainwashing as in Western world the liberal media are highly prevalent.

Yet, I am in agreement with a thought that sounded in this thread. France is no more liberal than other western countries. But Paris is. Easily. I talk to many people from Provence, Bordeaux, French South west, Savoy. And I easily understand wh, for instance, Provencal people vote Le Pen. Because what he says related to how they live.

That's pure myth. The media ALWAYS have been pretty conservative. France was too, during the 3rd Republic.

England? You know that The Times was pretty favorable to Hitler, right?

USA? WSJ sells more than NYT if I'm not mistaken. Fox news is pretty prevalent in MANY areas. Add many aggressive popular radio shows.. :shrug:

ys
Mar 23rd, 2012, 04:28 AM
USA? WSJ sells more than NYT if I'm not mistaken. Fox news is pretty prevalent in MANY areas. Add many aggressive popular radio shows.. :shrug:

For a single instance of Fox News we have a dog pack of CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, all kinds of huffingtonpostshit .. all very liberal.

fantic
Mar 23rd, 2012, 05:33 AM
For a single instance of Fox News we have a dog pack of CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, all kinds of huffingtonpostshit .. all very liberal.

That's only TV channel. And you have to admit, the rise of Fox is one of the most phenomenal things that happened in the recent decade. And, exactly how liberal are those news media you mentioned, eh? :lol:

How about newspapers? How about radio shows? You underestimate the power of conservative media ;)

I humbly suggest you to read
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XR461J87L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
;)

KournikovaFan91
Mar 23rd, 2012, 05:36 AM
For a single instance of Fox News we have a dog pack of CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, all kinds of huffingtonpostshit .. all very liberal.

They are ALL centrist not liberal except maybe the HuffPost which tends to be more progressive.

fantic
Mar 23rd, 2012, 06:00 AM
They are ALL centrist not liberal except maybe the HuffPost which tends to be more progressive.

exactly. The so-called Liberal Media is pure myth.

KournikovaFan91
Apr 4th, 2012, 04:26 AM
:woohoo:

Best European news in a while.

*JR*
Apr 20th, 2012, 09:15 PM
He needed the 2nd preference votes to win, and this was one of the few exceptions to a sweeping win by Labour. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17946742

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02184/boris-ken-livingst_2184412c.jpg

Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone clashed furiously over their tax arrangements today in the first live debate ahead of next month's London mayoral elections.
Ken Livingstone gives a reply to a question from a listener, as The Mayor of London Boris Johnson (right) looks on

By Michael Deacon, Parliamentary Sketchwriter

5:18PM BST 03 Apr 2012

Poor LBC. The London radio station went to all the trouble of arranging a live ding-dong between Ken Livingstone and Boris Johnson, and yet the best bit happened when they were off-air. Standing in the lift after their mayoral debate, the pair reportedly bellowed insults at each other like two Millwall fans arguing over a spilt Bovril. “You’re a f------ liar,” Mr Johnson is said to have roared. By all accounts their faces were as red as Routemasters.

Although it contained no swearing, the actual debate – which also featured the Lib Dem candidate Brian Paddick and the Green candidate Jenny Jones – wasn’t much calmer. Made up almost wholly of bickering, interruptions and indignation, it felt, perhaps aptly, like an episode of EastEnders, except with an unusually large proportion of dialogue about cycling safety and frontline police numbers.

At any moment you expected someone to yell, “Shut it, you slaaag!” Suddenly, someone more or less did. “Can you shut up so some of us can get a word in?” squeaked Miss Jones at Mr Johnson. Oh dear, thought the listener. It’ll all end in tears. Or at least those “doof, doof, doof-doof-doofa-doofa” drum noises.

The biggest scrap was over income tax. Mr Johnson accused Mr Livingstone of not having paid his fair share; Mr Livingstone accused Mr Johnson of exactly the same. “The guy’s a liar! The guy’s a barefaced liar!” spluttered Mr Johnson. Via the studio webcam we could see Mr Livingstone grinning as wickedly as a gargoyle. Mr Johnson was sitting with his back to him, like an affronted wife.

Even the most minor topics provoked irritable disagreement. At one point Mr Johnson accused his foe of being unable to drive. “No, but I’m married to a driver,” retorted Mr Livingstone, with a weird note of triumph. Mr Johnson then accused him of being unable to ride a bicycle. “But I use the Tube every day,” countered Mr Livingstone.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/9183939/Sketch-Boris-Johnson-and-Ken-Livingstone-scrap-like-the-Mitchells.html

======================================

*JR*
Apr 21st, 2012, 05:33 PM
Siobhan Benita: a star is born?

The independent candidate for London mayor looks unlikely to win this battle – but future victories beckon
By Simon Hoggart http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/17/siobhan-benita-star-future

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/4/17/1334687254455/siobhan-benita-star-futur-008.jpg

'A cross between a fashion model and Che Guevara' … Siobhan Benita. Photograph: Paul Jerram/Demotix/Corbis

First, I apologise to the majority of readers who do not live in London. But there has been some interest here in an independent candidate for mayor, which is to say someone who is neither Boris Johnson nor Ken Livingstone. So I popped along to her manifesto launch.

It was an unpromising start. She was to appear at a sixth-form college in Hackney, east London. The building is surrounded by high metal fences and CCTV. This is not a low-crime area. The helpful chaps at reception had never heard of the candidate, Siobhan Benita, or a press conference. They took me to the careers fair. No sign there. Then the college theatre. It was locked. Finally, back at the careers fair, three camera crews had arrived, which is three more than Siobhan used to get.

The careers fair showed an ambitious bravura. As well as recruiting stalls for jobs such as selling cosmetics door to door and the various armed forces, there were universities, such as Brunel and Greenwich, plus Imperial College, LSE and Cambridge.

A morose young woman sat behind the Oxford stall. Oxbridge is anxious to get more people from the working classes and minorities, but none were lining up. A college politics teacher approached. He resembled a woodblock of the Ancient Mariner, and he stoppeth me. He seemed upset that a Guardian person should even be present. "She's got nothing! Nothing!" he explained. Then, with a look of withering disgust, "She's just old New Labour!", a difficult, if comprehensible concept.

Siobhan was late. She was being photographed by the Telegraph and the FT. For a candidate starting from nowhere, these opportunities are vital. Recently, and after the victory of George Galloway in Bradford, her odds have dropped from 500-1 to 20-1. She is still unlikely to win – even people who don't like either Boris or Ken suspect they will need to choose one for their vote to count – but who knows? If she gets what pundits call "traction", she might do better than most folk expect.

Finally she arrived and, while I won't say that the media swooned, she certainly had an impact. Tall, glossy-haired, elegant in a pencil dress with scarlet jacket, and a diamond wedding ring that would make an American rapper envious, she'd stand out in any room. She spoke to the TV crews with confidence and panache. "She's camera-ready!" said an admiring woman reporter, which made her sound like an oven-ready chicken. Her posters show her gazing inspirationally into the distance, a cross between a fashion model and Che Guevara.

The manifesto is middle of the road, faintly left of centre (she was a civil servant and a Labour supporter): more council houses, cheaper transport, better education and – this won't do her much good in west London, where she lives – a third runway at Heathrow. She's smart and coherent and a mile away from the loonies and the joke candidates. Even assuming she loses next month, a star may well have been born. In which case my article might be relevant to readers outside the Great Wen.

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2012, 04:50 AM
Polls are point to Hollande win?

http://images.smh.com.au/2012/04/21/3237665/Hollande_729-420x0.jpg

:bounce:

debby
Apr 22nd, 2012, 10:42 AM
I did my citizen duty ! :bounce:

Hollande FTW :rocker2:

yes I'm real. The history of France in the 19th Century and of the 3rd Republic is best epitomized as; 'the FAILURE of the Left'

The 'lefty' image of France is pretty exaggerated imo. I don't think France was that 'lefty' compared to Spain in the 1930s either :lol:

I totally agree.

Around 1930, you could say French people has enough of 3rd Republic (look up what Mac Mahon did in 3rd Republic, and how he lost... he didn't lose to lefty but to moderate-righty people), so there was a wave of hope, thus the huge success of Front Populaire, Jean Jaures' ideas, Clemenceau, Blum.... but after... De Gaulle, Pompidou, VGE...
Mitterrand was the only lefty to be elected. I hope Hollande will be the second one.

And anyway, I mean, Marine is liked by almost at least 20% of french people, and Sarkozy was incredibly popular in 2006/2007 when he said disgusting things about immigrant people "let's wipe off the banlieues from them, let's Kärcher them !" (Kärcher - brand of cleaning cars) "France, you love it or you leave it" ... now he wants to leave the Schengen espace :help: he is such a joke.

In french we say "choisir entre la peste et le choléra!"

So in the second round i'll vote for Sarkozy against Hollande.

Hum no, Sarkozy is way worse than Hollande, Sarkozy FAILED his 5 years and his campaign. Come on. Hollande is much more human than this dude.

Sarkozy will be re-elected :hysteric: i already called it when Hollande was 18 pts higher in the polls.... ill stand by my prediction

+1

I am so pessimistic for today... if he passes today, then imo he is the next President. But today ... I am afraid people will take this for granted... and 2002 bis repetita ! ewwwwww

I'm voting for Marine Le Pen ! Well if I could vote... Hollande and Sarkozy, that's the same : they are globalists and are/will destroy France...

:rolleyes: conspiration !!!!!!!1
You know, Marine would destroy France. Economically at least. And socially as well.

Thank god you can't :scared:

IKR :hysteric:

Lol WTF sarkozy didn't wait to line up, he had to pass people to vote without waiting. UGH !!!!!

ViceUltramontain
Apr 22nd, 2012, 03:40 PM
:cheer: Good work Debby :cheer:

Martian Jeza
Apr 22nd, 2012, 08:45 PM
Globalist and Zionist puppet vs Globalist and Zionist Puppet ! Great job France :worship:

ViceUltramontain
Apr 22nd, 2012, 08:46 PM
Thank you :cheer:

dybbuk
Apr 22nd, 2012, 09:19 PM
Le Pen got 20% of the vote? Lord, France. This festering racism in Western Europe is going to rear its head in a big way one day.

Bismarck.
Apr 22nd, 2012, 09:20 PM
Globalist and Zionist puppet vs Globalist and Zionist Puppet ! Great job France :worship:

As opposed to what? Extreme fascist joke?

Mynarco
Apr 22nd, 2012, 09:26 PM
MLP got 20%. Oh god.

fantic
Apr 22nd, 2012, 09:38 PM
Le Pen got 20% of the vote? Lord, France. This festering racism in Western Europe is going to rear its head in a big way one day.

Remember the Dreyfus Affair. France's anti-Semitism was probably the worst in Europe.

new-york
Apr 23rd, 2012, 12:04 AM
Send your prayers.

WowWow
Apr 23rd, 2012, 12:40 AM
Le Pen got 20% of the vote? Lord, France. This festering racism in Western Europe is going to rear its head in a big way one day.

Disturbing.

The Dawntreader
Apr 23rd, 2012, 12:44 AM
France is teetering on the edge of becoming a Totalitarian state in the next 30 years or so. It's disturbing.

KournikovaFan91
Apr 23rd, 2012, 01:27 AM
Still kinda wish Le Pen had beaten Sarko it would have guaranteed a win for Hollande in the next round.

I reckon Le Pen would fit nicely into a Republican primary so I don't see why certain people seem so shocked about her getting 20% when the Republican nominee in the states will defiantly get more than that this year.

In political terms the only faith I have in humanity lies in South America, they are probably the only world leaders I've any respect for at the moment.

Milito22
Apr 23rd, 2012, 01:27 AM
Le Pen got 20% of the vote? Lord, France. This festering racism in Western Europe is going to rear its head in a big way one day.

the 20% of white ppl livin in France :lol:

ys
Apr 23rd, 2012, 02:17 AM
I am sure, Le Pen got 50+ in my beloved Provence and something like that in Bordeaux. This has nothing to do with racism or xenophobia. Just people wanting to protect their way of life from government and intruders from aside. Nothing wrong about that.

edificio
Apr 23rd, 2012, 03:05 AM
For a single instance of Fox News we have a dog pack of CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, all kinds of huffingtonpostshit .. all very liberal.

The above bolded news networks are not liberal at all. :help: You must be watching too much FauxNews.

ys
Apr 23rd, 2012, 03:21 AM
The above bolded news networks are not liberal at all. :help: You must be watching too much FauxNews.

I don't watch TV. My primary source of news is cnn.com, nbc.com, yahoo.com and bloomberg.com. I don't watch or read anything from Fox. I am totally independent mind.

But you are not.

tennisbum79
Apr 23rd, 2012, 04:24 AM
I don't watch TV. My primary source of news is cnn.com, nbc.com, yahoo.com and bloomberg.com. I don't watch or read anything from Fox. I am totally independent mind.

But you are not.
Interesting, you avoid mentioning FoxNews in your primary source of news.
Are you embarrassed?


Not watching nor reading FoxNews does not make you "independent mind".
And I don't think you are.

fantic
Apr 23rd, 2012, 05:05 AM
I don't watch TV. My primary source of news is cnn.com, nbc.com, yahoo.com and bloomberg.com. I don't watch or read anything from Fox. I am totally independent mind.

"
For a single instance of Fox News we have a dog pack of CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, all kinds of huffingtonpostshit .. all very liberal."

Both are your posts. You think CNN and NBC are VERY liberal yet you site those as your primary news source :lol: And you say you DON'T watch Fox news. So then how do you quote Fox, as your post above? I don't get it :confused:

So does this mean that you value CNN and NBC higher than Fox? :oh:

Beat
Apr 23rd, 2012, 08:41 AM
I am sure, Le Pen got 50+ in my beloved Provence and something like that in Bordeaux. This has nothing to do with racism or xenophobia. Just people wanting to protect their way of life from government and intruders from aside. Nothing wrong about that.

oh wow, that is just too much, even for you. :help:

frenchie
Apr 23rd, 2012, 10:19 AM
OMG

I don't understand how my country can elect someone like Hollande??

I always say that socialists are kind of living in the past, thinking the State can provide everything for free to everyone in the country. But reality is different now : we have DIFFICULTIES and we simply can't do that anymore even if the idea herself is very good of course.

To me is program is way too permissive and ambitious to the point it's impossible to realize.
There are also a few things that are totally absurd to me : giving the right to vote to foreigners, 75% tax for rich people....

And as for the man himself, he has absolutely 0 charisma and I don't see him defending France's interests on a worldwide scale.

That's the first time I'm actually scared for the future of my country....

ranfurly
Apr 23rd, 2012, 11:21 AM
Mirielle Mathieu should of run for president!!

King Halep
Apr 23rd, 2012, 02:56 PM
didnt you hear multiculturalism has failed

King Halep
Apr 23rd, 2012, 02:59 PM
France is teetering on the edge of becoming a Totalitarian state in the next 30 years or so. It's disturbing.

all the western states will become the same with obama leading the way

Remix13
Apr 23rd, 2012, 03:36 PM
OMG

I don't understand how my country can elect someone like Hollande??

I always say that socialists are kind of living in the past, thinking the State can provide everything for free to everyone in the country. But reality is different now : we have DIFFICULTIES and we simply can't do that anymore even if the idea herself is very good of course.

To me is program is way too permissive and ambitious to the point it's impossible to realize.
There are also a few things that are totally absurd to me : giving the right to vote to foreigners, 75% tax for rich people....

And as for the man himself, he has absolutely 0 charisma and I don't see him defending France's interests on a worldwide scale.

That's the first time I'm actually scared for the future of my country....

I agree with about everything written here. This election is so despairing :sad:

-Hollande: see frenchie's post... His program is a total non-sens in France economical situation.

-Sarkozy: poor results as a president (standard of living, debt, employment, security... To sum up: his promises of 2007), the international crisis didn't help him though. At least he seems to be globally quite ok for international affairs.

-Le Pen: I quite agree with her on security issues and tighter policy about immigration (0 immigration is stupid, but a controlled and selected one is better for everyone). But she's too anti-European and doesn't seem very competent in economics. I'm curious to know how she's portrayed in foreign countries, conservative/anti-system/fascist/other :confused:

-Melenchon: Program-wise, Hollande in worse. He has lots of charisma and was fashionable in the media recently. That explains his relatively good score for a "communist" candidate.

-Bayrou: I personally voted for him and I'm very disappointed about his score under 10% :bigcry:

He told the truth (at least more than the others) about the debt, saying the State has to BOTH cut the expenses and earn more incomes, and made no delusional promises. Of course it's not pleasant to hear but if we don't do that, others will do it for us, in worse (look Greece, even Spain/Italy). He has also a good view about education (insisting on basis in French and Maths at primary school for example). Moreover he is a partisan of the European Union which has flaws but is essential to compete with other large countries.

But he was quite vague about his solutions and didn't say a word about security and immigration (it's not the most important issue, but it's a serious issue anyway and not only for extreme-right...) and he has so much difficulties to be a good public speaker :help:

Other candidates were far behind with 1 or 2%:
-Joly spent more time attacking Sarkozy than defending ecology and sold herself to the devil.
-Poutou and Arthau were typical leftist candidates.
-Dupont-Aignan was actually a quite good candidate for conservative right/anti-Euro, comparable to a "light" Le Pen without controversy/racist suspicion. he lacked attention of the media.
-Cheminade should have stayed on Mars :lol: (I like his idea to increase research budget though)

Of course this is just my objectionable point of view :angel:

ViceUltramontain
Apr 23rd, 2012, 04:57 PM
There are also a few things that are totally absurd to me : giving the right to vote to foreigners, 75% tax for rich people....

And as for the man himself, he has absolutely 0 charisma and I don't see him defending France's interests on a worldwide scale.

That's the first time I'm actually scared for the future of my country....

It's the right to vote for foreigner only in municipal elections. What's wrong with people living for a least 5 years in France voting for their mayor ?
And the tax is fair. Rich people have enough money to live, they don't need to gain 100 times more than other people. These days, it's the middle class that is paying most of the taxes and who's suffering the most, that is unfair.

And charisma is in the eyes of the beholder. I think he looks normal and nice and that it's way better than a showing off president as Sarkozy.
And for the worldwide part, we have nothing to lose anyway as we already hit rock bottom with Sarkozy who invited Gaddafi in 2007 or 08 and then suddendly chose that the guy is a dictator when people in Libya are rioting. Same thing with El Assad.

*JR*
Apr 23rd, 2012, 05:13 PM
I don't like Hollande for his betrayal of "Zegolene", the mother of his 4 kids. :sobbing: I hope Sarko (who's considerably to the left of Barack Obama on both tax issues and foreign policy, hot rhetoric aside) wins this runoff, and then "real lefty" Benoit Hamon wins the PS nomination and the Presidency in 2017.

Bayo
Apr 23rd, 2012, 05:33 PM
-Le Pen: I quite agree with her on security issues and tighter policy about immigration (0 immigration is stupid, but a controlled and selected one is better for everyone). But she's too anti-European and doesn't seem very competent in economics. I'm curious to know how she's portrayed in foreign countries, conservative/anti-system/fascist/other :confused:


Liberal to moderate media (New York Times, Washington Post, NPR) typically cast her as a rightwing radical. And actually on the program I'm watching right now she was just called a "quasi-fascist."

I'm sure the summation of her policies would be different at conservative outlets, but I don't read/watch much of those.

ViceUltramontain
Apr 23rd, 2012, 05:36 PM
She wouldn't be considered that radical in the US. She's a nice gurl next to the tea party.

Wiggly
Apr 23rd, 2012, 05:48 PM
Who in their right mind would pay a 75% tax?

Le Pen is viewed as borderline devil in Quebec. Which is hardly surprising as most French Canadian journalists are left wing nutjobs.
Most of Western countries who had too much social programs will bankrupt soon enough. Things will get ugly.

ViceUltramontain
Apr 23rd, 2012, 05:52 PM
The 75% tax is only for people winning more than 1 million of euros per year.

Wiggly
Apr 23rd, 2012, 05:57 PM
The 75% tax is only for people winning more than 1 million of euros per year.

Still, thas has to be a lot of people. You can't finance a lot of social programs if everyone earn leass than a million as everyone else has run for the hills.

*JR*
Apr 23rd, 2012, 05:59 PM
The 75% tax is only for people winning more than 1 million of euros per year.

And I'll bet its chock full of loopholes, like the confiscatory top rates in Japan, and the onetime "official" 91% top rate in the US. All these do is engender "creative tax planning" and the use of foreign tax havens. I'm quite "left", but consider this terrible economic policy. :shrug:

Remix13
Apr 23rd, 2012, 06:05 PM
The 75% tax is only for people winning more than 1 million of euros per year.

Indeed, but :
-This law could be potentially unconstitutional (taxes must not be confiscatory).
-Hollande's friends would probably dissuade him to do it (he has the same kind of rich friends than Sarkozy...).
-Switzerland and Luxembourg are not far.

Increasing taxes for very rich people is understandable (and quite fair), but this "75%" tax is totally demagogic and inneficient.

Monica_Rules
Apr 23rd, 2012, 06:12 PM
So 20% of French people are racists then?

Dave.
Apr 23rd, 2012, 06:19 PM
Even in Paris most posters of Le Pen have a hitler moustache or neo nazi written all over it, and from interviews of local people I've seen it seems she's still regarded as an extreme candidate and they are shocked at the result. So even there she must be portrayed as being on the extreme right.

People voting for extreme candidates in harsher circumstances is no surprise. What's more worrying is why the FN have been enjoying the % of vote they have been for so long, and that they don't replace Sarkozy's party as the main party of the right should he lose the election.

Anyway, Hollande FTW!

Remix13
Apr 23rd, 2012, 06:21 PM
So 20% of French people are racists then?

20% are evil fascists
13% are demonic commies
2% are green fanatics
10% are centrists morons
55% are coward brainless sheeps...

ViceUltramontain
Apr 23rd, 2012, 06:25 PM
So 20% of French people are racists then?

She scored 18%. Some are racists yes. Some are just desperate and want to show it.

Bismarck.
Apr 23rd, 2012, 06:33 PM
I'd have said that a lot of Le Pen's success has to do with her stance on the EU, instead of any anti-Islam rhetoric, but then when you look at a map of how people voted by region, it definitely suggests otherwise.

Nicolás89
Apr 23rd, 2012, 06:38 PM
So 20% of French people are racists then?

I'd say that's a fair share for any country. :shrug:

Princeza
Apr 23rd, 2012, 07:02 PM
How people still defend that moron after failing during 5 years is beyond me.

Remix13
Apr 23rd, 2012, 08:25 PM
How people still defend that moron after failing during 5 years is beyond me.

Right, but I extend that to more or less 30 years of failure UMP (RPR at this time) then PS then UMP then PS... Bayrou was the only credible alternative to break this vicious circle without falling into extremes, but you know :rolleyes:

ViceUltramontain
Apr 23rd, 2012, 08:43 PM
Bayrou was minister for 4 years with the RPR. He's made of the same material.

Princeza
Apr 23rd, 2012, 09:01 PM
Right, but I extend that to more or less 30 years of failure UMP (RPR at this time) then PS then UMP then PS... Bayrou was the only credible alternative to break this vicious circle without falling into extremes, but you know :rolleyes:

He was an alternative in 2007, but his 'I won't give my votes to anyone' strategy ruined him. You have to make choices in politics, he didn't, game over.

Chris 84
Apr 23rd, 2012, 09:03 PM
I'm voting for Marine Le Pen ! Well if I could vote... Hollande and Sarkozy, that's the same : they are globalists and are/will destroy France...

thankfully you can't

Globalist and Zionist puppet vs Globalist and Zionist Puppet ! Great job France :worship:

better than racist nutjob (as i think somebody else has already pointed out)

OMG

I don't understand how my country can elect someone like Hollande??

I always say that socialists are kind of living in the past, thinking the State can provide everything for free to everyone in the country. But reality is different now : we have DIFFICULTIES and we simply can't do that anymore even if the idea herself is very good of course.

To me is program is way too permissive and ambitious to the point it's impossible to realize.
There are also a few things that are totally absurd to me : giving the right to vote to foreigners, 75% tax for rich people....

And as for the man himself, he has absolutely 0 charisma and I don't see him defending France's interests on a worldwide scale.

That's the first time I'm actually scared for the future of my country....

hollande's policies are far from being socialist, much in the same way that the french socialist party is far from being socialist. it is a centrist party, social democratic at most.
if i was you, i'd be a lot more scared if sarko gets another term.

I don't like Hollande for his betrayal of "Zegolene", the mother of his 4 kids. :sobbing: I hope Sarko (who's considerably to the left of Barack Obama on both tax issues and foreign policy, hot rhetoric aside) wins this runoff, and then "real lefty" Benoit Hamon wins the PS nomination and the Presidency in 2017.

you want sarkozy to win? really? weird

Who in their right mind would pay a 75% tax?

Le Pen is viewed as borderline devil in Quebec. Which is hardly surprising as most French Canadian journalists are left wing nutjobs.
Most of Western countries who had too much social programs will bankrupt soon enough. Things will get ugly.

far higher taxes on top rate tax have been levied in the past.

and no, it is hardly surprising that she is viewed that way because she is borderline devil. far more dangerous than her nazi raving lunatic father because she has the sense and the skills to present things like a proper politician and not like a nutcase.

fantic
Apr 23rd, 2012, 10:03 PM
Time to reread history, about how the Nazi party came to power in Germany :oh:

Remix13
Apr 23rd, 2012, 10:11 PM
He was an alternative in 2007, but his 'I won't give my votes to anyone' strategy ruined him. You have to make choices in politics, he didn't, game over.

By choosing one candidate or another, he would have betrayed his electors.

Remix13
Apr 23rd, 2012, 10:19 PM
Bayrou was minister for 4 years with the RPR. He's made of the same material.

Indeed he was, but he was no prime minister or president... And he has been consistent in his policy since 2002. He has his flaws but was probably the most honest (or the less dishonest) among the "big" candidates.

ys
Apr 24th, 2012, 12:51 AM
So 20% of French people are racists then?

Most of those people are not some evil skinheads or racists, but just hardworking farmers. I spent quite a bit of time in rural Provence. Love those people.
But I don't think any of the candidates can save France. I think the things for the French are going to get worse and worse and worse no matter whom them elect.

fantic
Apr 24th, 2012, 12:55 AM
Most of those people are not some evil skinheads or racists, but just hardworking farmers. I spent quite a bit of time in rural Provence. Love those people.
But I don't think any of the candidates can save France. I think the things for the French are going to get worse and worse and worse no matter whom them elect.

and then a 'messiah' will appear, just like Hitler did in Germany :oh:

ys
Apr 24th, 2012, 01:06 AM
and then a 'messiah' will appear, just like Hitler did in Germany :oh:

Ironically, that's the most likely scenario. If things deteriorate, the chaos will increase, and at some breaking point all the people would ask for would be order. France is not the only one.. USA , by socialising - and thus - watering down its economy, is bravely marching towards the same fate.
And it does not have to be Hitler. If a country drops into a left-liberal disorder, a pinochet would be enough, and then we'll have a perfect economic machine again.
A good economic policy is what a good, educated and strong willed politician would do if he'd have a luxury to disregard the electoral factor.
Educated dictatorship is good for economy. Every or nearly every major economic miracle of post-war history happened while having non-elected power.

fantic
Apr 24th, 2012, 01:12 AM
yeah, South Korea for example, Park Chung-Hee's autocratic military regime for 18 yrs..then his successor, Chun Doo-Hwan for 7 yrs..

Park regime's 'politics' was simple; how did he 'handle' the opposition;

1. torture
2. bribe

:oh:

ys
Apr 24th, 2012, 01:31 AM
yeah, South Korea for example, Park Chung-Hee's autocratic military regime for 18 yrs..then his successor, Chun Doo-Hwan for 7 yrs..

Park regime's 'politics' was simple; how did he 'handle' the opposition;

1. torture
2. bribe

:oh:

Are you complaining about South Korean economy built by two generals? :) I reckon, with all their problems, economy-wise - the result was very good.

Torture, bribe .. bad.. I know, I know.. You guys would strongly prefer the methods of your northern brethren..

fantic
Apr 24th, 2012, 01:46 AM
Are you complaining about South Korean economy built by two generals? :) I reckon, with all their problems, economy-wise - the result was very good.

Torture, bribe .. bad.. I know, I know.. You guys would strongly prefer the methods of your northern brethren..

THAT's the typical method the regime used against their opposition; BLACK AND WHITE method. Very convenient, the existance of NK. :lol: And who actually MADE contact with the North? Park regime :haha:

And we all know the Chaebol(conglomerate) economic structure which was born in the Park regime resulted in the economic disaster in 1996-7 :bigcry:

fantic
Apr 24th, 2012, 06:02 AM
Ironically, that's the most likely scenario. If things deteriorate, the chaos will increase, and at some breaking point all the people would ask for would be order. France is not the only one.. USA , by socialising - and thus - watering down its economy, is bravely marching towards the same fate.
And it does not have to be Hitler. If a country drops into a left-liberal disorder, a pinochet would be enough, and then we'll have a perfect economic machine again.
A good economic policy is what a good, educated and strong willed politician would do if he'd have a luxury to disregard the electoral factor.
Educated dictatorship is good for economy. Every or nearly every major economic miracle of post-war history happened while having non-elected power.

a good'ole anti democratic conservative, aren't you :lol:

You really seem to be rather eager for the 'messiah'(of course, autocratic and NON-socialistic one) to arrive :lol: "Just feed me well, that's enough for me!" Right? :lol:

Londoner
Apr 24th, 2012, 11:52 AM
Whenever there is strife in Europe we either swing far right or far left. Or at least what they think is far right and far left. And let's face it we have a lot of problems at the moment - and for several to come as well! From what I've heard on the news the left will win in France. Thank goodness. And in the UK Labour are well ahead in the polls and based on the polls would win if there was an election tomorrow. Ken Livingstone (Left) is now neck and neck with Boris Johnson (Right and current mayor) for the Mayor of London - elections early May.

What I find odd is how popular the far right is in France. Their equivalents have never done well in the UK.

Londoner
Apr 24th, 2012, 11:56 AM
OMG

I don't understand how my country can elect someone like Hollande??

I always say that socialists are kind of living in the past, thinking the State can provide everything for free to everyone in the country. But reality is different now : we have DIFFICULTIES and we simply can't do that anymore even if the idea herself is very good of course.

To me is program is way too permissive and ambitious to the point it's impossible to realize.
There are also a few things that are totally absurd to me : giving the right to vote to foreigners, 75% tax for rich people....

And as for the man himself, he has absolutely 0 charisma and I don't see him defending France's interests on a worldwide scale.

That's the first time I'm actually scared for the future of my country....

What I find even MORE difficult to understand is that, despite the 2nd World War and everything the French went through, and the fact we are now in the 21st Century, there are still a significant number of people in France who would vote for the far right!:eek: It is a real shocker and I just don't get it! Does it mean there was a large number of people in France who were perfectly happy with the occupation? And would be quite happy/want to have a fascist Government?:eek:

Londoner
Apr 24th, 2012, 12:01 PM
Educated dictatorship is good for economy. Every or nearly every major economic miracle of post-war history happened while having non-elected power.

Not the UK's.

In future is you spout such trash would you always footnote it with 'but NOT in the UK'.

Londoner
Apr 24th, 2012, 12:09 PM
They really do LOATHE each other.:lol:

Every politician has a vein of corruption in them. Goes with the job. Both of these 'candidates' have good points and both have bad. And it will be a mixed blessing whoever wins. Livingstone will gloat, the Tories will say they have the mandate despite poor National poll ratings.

Even worse than these 2 are the OTHER candidates. The creepy gay ex-policeman for the washed up Lib Dems. And look at who the BNP is dishing up! A guy with a foreign name!:lol:

A Magicman
Apr 24th, 2012, 12:14 PM
As long as the French are seriously debating about decreasing the pension age and weekly labour time, things can't be so bad after all.

Happy about the good outcome of Marine le Pen, though. Finally, things are getting tougher for the EU in its current shape with Holland's government having failed, too.

Sam L
Apr 24th, 2012, 12:31 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Pr%C3%A9sidentielle_fran%C3%A7aise_2012_premier_to ur.png/450px-Pr%C3%A9sidentielle_fran%C3%A7aise_2012_premier_to ur.png

Le gard is the only one where Le Pen came on top. She's making herself look less extreme than her father but is still considered an extreme candidate as she should be.

I'm a little concerned about some of Hollande's economic policies like the really high tax rates for high earners but I don't know. I do think he is the best candidate for France at the moment.

Sam L
Apr 24th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Most of those people are not some evil skinheads or racists, but just hardworking farmers. I spent quite a bit of time in rural Provence. Love those people.
But I don't think any of the candidates can save France. I think the things for the French are going to get worse and worse and worse no matter whom them elect.

That's what YOU want not what's going to happen. There are plenty of countries you can go live in if you want intolerance and economic inequality. :rolleyes:

Dave.
Apr 24th, 2012, 12:44 PM
http://www.jennyforlondon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Freewheel-23-sept-07-jj.jpg

She will save London. :hearts: Don't know how anybody could not vote for her. Even Ken said she's his favourite.

The Tories have succeeded in distracting the debate from Boris Johnson's policies and how the other candidates can offer better, and concentrating it on Ken Livingstone's tax arrangements (which is not an issue that affects ordinary Londoners). Which means the debates have been awful so far.




Even worse than these 2 are the OTHER candidates. The creepy gay ex-policeman for the washed up Lib Dems. And look at who the BNP is dishing up! A guy with a foreign name!:lol:

??? :o

Monica_Rules
Apr 24th, 2012, 05:45 PM
Most of those people are not some evil skinheads or racists, but just hardworking farmers. I spent quite a bit of time in rural Provence. Love those people.
But I don't think any of the candidates can save France. I think the things for the French are going to get worse and worse and worse no matter whom them elect.


I know that. I was making a sweeping statement. I understand in times of harship and you can't see much from the two main parties you go to extremes. Look at Hitler getting elected in Germnay.

I hope the day never comes when a BNP candidate gets that many votes in a similar poll though.

fantic
Apr 24th, 2012, 07:04 PM
What I find even MORE difficult to understand is that, despite the 2nd World War and everything the French went through, and the fact we are now in the 21st Century, there are still a significant number of people in France who would vote for the far right!:eek: It is a real shocker and I just don't get it! Does it mean there was a large number of people in France who were perfectly happy with the occupation? And would be quite happy/want to have a fascist Government?:eek:

the 3rd Republic was essentially 'betrayed' by the ultra-conservatives.
They really wanted it to end, and the result is the Vichy regime.

and the 'myth' of Resistance; it was NEVER that pervasive in the first place :lol: but after the war the gov. wanted to 'paint' that way, to hide their embarassing past :oh:

France is just QUITE conservative..just check their history after the Napoleonic War..19c, 20c, VERY conservative..labor relations..WAY more conservative than England and Germany in the early 20th C; in a big company, if you're late, you're just laid off, that was the reality.

Well Catholic countries are generally conservative, no? Spain, France..

fantic
Apr 24th, 2012, 07:08 PM
A Magicman is German, ys is Russian...hmmm those countries are not exactly known for their democratic tendencies throughout the history :tape:

frenchie
Apr 24th, 2012, 07:09 PM
As long as the French are seriously debating about decreasing the pension age and weekly labour time, things can't be so bad after all.
Happy about the good outcome of Marine le Pen, though. Finally, things are getting tougher for the EU in its current shape with Holland's government having failed, too.

These are ideas of Hollande's left wing:help:

35h/week already killed our labour market. We should get ride of that shit. No surprise nobody copied this policy in Europe.

As for decreasing the pension age, just have a look at the demography in France and you'll understand your pain!
Sarkozy had the guts to reform the system so we have to work and pay taxes for longer, but he was criticized a lot. But it's not even debatable, we couln't continue like that forever.

Sometimes I wonder if Hollande's team ever had economy lessons at school...


And I'm sorry to say that but Marine Le Pen raised some issued that also need to be cleared

fantic
Apr 24th, 2012, 07:12 PM
One thing we should know, Hitler was..

VERY POPULAR in Germany. He was literally a 'messiah' in their eyes..

Especially due to his 'triumph' over the West. Why there weren't more assassination or
coup attempts against Hitler? Because those would-be perpetrators KNEW that Hitler was SO POPULAR..

That's the chilling, cold hard truth.

And he was the darling of the conservatives ALL OVER THE EUROPE AND U.S., THE TIMES praised him, remember that. Of course as the bulwark against communism.

A Magicman
Apr 25th, 2012, 09:22 AM
A Magicman is German, ys is Russian...hmmm those countries are not exactly known for their democratic tendencies throughout the history :tape:

Yes and we have come to abolish the remaining pieces of democracy worldwide by posting on a tennis message board showing our loathing for social democratic policies.

A Magicman
Apr 25th, 2012, 09:33 AM
As for decreasing the pension age, just have a look at the demography in France and you'll understand your pain!
Sarkozy had the guts to reform the system so we have to work and pay taxes for longer, but he was criticized a lot. But it's not even debatable, we couln't continue like that forever.



That's what has been done here, too. Against protest of the left and trade unionist and of course, raising the pension age is a de facto cutting of pensions as you give up 0,3% of what you get each month your leaving your work life earlier (so 3,6% per year).

Since that has been done, combined with some reforms in the health sector and a good development of our economy, the social security system looks quite good again. We pay more, get less, but I guess, times of spilling welfare over the entire population in Europe are just over.

ViceUltramontain
Apr 25th, 2012, 08:47 PM
the 3rd Republic was essentially 'betrayed' by the ultra-conservatives.
They really wanted it to end, and the result is the Vichy regime.

and the 'myth' of Resistance; it was NEVER that pervasive in the first place :lol: but after the war the gov. wanted to 'paint' that way, to hide their embarassing past :oh:

France is just QUITE conservative..just check their history after the Napoleonic War..19c, 20c, VERY conservative..labor relations..WAY more conservative than England and Germany in the early 20th C; in a big company, if you're late, you're just laid off, that was the reality.

Well Catholic countries are generally conservative, no? Spain, France..

So many false statements in this post. Scary.

fantic
Apr 25th, 2012, 09:04 PM
So many false statements in this post. Scary.

really? care to elaborate?

you do know what happened after 1830, 48, 70, right?

Now what was Dreyfus Affair then? :lol:

you think French labor relations and customs, Social Security were progressive in the 19th C to early 20th C? More progressive than, say, Germany?

you do know what happened to the Popular Front, don't you?

you think Resistance was a pervasive all encompassing 'movement'?

answer, please :)

*JR*
Apr 25th, 2012, 09:08 PM
I hope Sarko (who's considerably to the left of Barack Obama on both tax issues and foreign policy, hot rhetoric aside) wins this runoff, and then "real lefty" Benoit Hamon wins the PS nomination and the Presidency in 2017.



you want sarkozy to win? really? weird



Uh, context plz? I made very clear why I want Sarko (who, again, is well left of Obama on both foreign policy and on taxes) to win; amazing that most posters likely around half my age only look @ "now", while I'm thinking longterm. :shrug:

ViceUltramontain
Apr 25th, 2012, 09:14 PM
the 3rd Republic was essentially 'betrayed' by the ultra-conservatives.
They really wanted it to end, and the result is the Vichy regime.

and the 'myth' of Resistance; it was NEVER that pervasive in the first place :lol: but after the war the gov. wanted to 'paint' that way, to hide their embarassing past :oh:

France is just QUITE conservative..just check their history after the Napoleonic War..19c, 20c, VERY conservative..labor relations..WAY more conservative than England and Germany in the early 20th C; in a big company, if you're late, you're just laid off, that was the reality.

Well Catholic countries are generally conservative, no? Spain, France..


The Vichy regime is not the result of the betrayal of ultra-conservatives. You missed something called World War 2 in your equation.

Resistance in France is not a myth at all. The governement after the war was not embarassed about its past as it was the continuation of the Free French Forces and the resistance of De Gaulle. These people did nothing to be embarassed about.

Only true kinda true thing is that France is conservative.

France cannot be compared to Spain. France is one of the countries with the most atheists and agnostics in the world. The Catholic religion's influence is pretty much done.

fantic
Apr 26th, 2012, 12:26 AM
The Vichy regime is not the result of the betrayal of ultra-conservatives. You missed something called World War 2 in your equation.

Resistance in France is not a myth at all. The governement after the war was not embarassed about its past as it was the continuation of the Free French Forces and the resistance of De Gaulle. These people did nothing to be embarassed about.

Only true kinda true thing is that France is conservative.

France cannot be compared to Spain. France is one of the countries with the most atheists and agnostics in the world. The Catholic religion's influence is pretty much done.

You think I don't know about WW2? :lol: Do you know who made up the Vichy regime? Do you think the so-called 'Left' were major players in that regime? The ultra conservatives ALWAYS wanted the 3rd Republic to end. Always. Do you deny this basic fact?

I said that 'Resistance was PERVASIVE' was the myth :facepalm: Please read again. De Gaulle's force was VERY small. VERY. Resistance was NOT a wide-spread movement.

And, which France are you talking about? Today? I'm not talking about today. Until like the 1930s. Do you think Spain was less 'radical' than France? Ever heard about the Spanish Civil War? Now THAT Republic was WAY more radical than their contemporary French gov(the Popular Front gov) :lol: (And that's why Franco and Co. rose up. Ultra conservatives struck back) Also Catholic had significant influence in France until then. :shrug:

Balkanac
Apr 26th, 2012, 11:56 AM
Marine has good idea because she doesn't like the EU or muslims but she is bad because she doesnt like arabs :sad:

Sam L
Apr 26th, 2012, 01:54 PM
BBC analysis on why FN did so well: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17824436

It's about economics. It's about the people who are losing out from globalisation. This is a vote against the establishment and EU more than a vote for xenophobia although there is a huge element of this also. I actually agree with this.

What does everyone else think? I think it's too simplistic to be looking at this as a love or a turn towards neo-nazis. There are serious economic issues in France and wider Europe that needs to be addressed.

debby
Apr 27th, 2012, 08:22 PM
Yes but everyone knows FN is a racist political part.

Ok I am maybe too extremist but I can't feel sorry. I just hate FN too much.

frenchie
Apr 27th, 2012, 10:20 PM
Yes but everyone knows FN is a racist political part.

Ok I am maybe too extremist but I can't feel sorry. I just hate FN too much.

Yeah but you can't ignore the fact that 1/5 people voted for them
And you can't say that 1/5 people in France is racist:o

We have to accept that result and take it into account, like it or not.
They raised some problems that need to be solved

Milito22
Apr 27th, 2012, 10:27 PM
A Magicman is German, ys is Russian...hmmm those countries are not exactly known for their democratic tendencies throughout the history :tape:

Merk'Heil :oh:

debby
Apr 27th, 2012, 10:28 PM
Yeah but you can't ignore the fact that 1/5 people voted for them
And you can't say that 1/5 people in France is racist:o

We have to accept that result and take it into account, like it or not.
They raised some problems that need to be solved

I can.
During an economic crisis, racism always raises.
I know a lot of... "subtle" racists anyway, it's disturbing they are OK with strangers as long as they are themselves ok, but when they have problems, it's "nevermind". How many racists comment I have heard when the shooting in Toulouse happened....

also your claim about 35heures is terribly wrong. It's actually great for job and productivity. Also, it's a theory that really doesn't apply, because we work more than 35h per week... also I might add French people work longer than German people before retiring ;)

Chris 84
Apr 27th, 2012, 10:29 PM
such a substantial vote for FN (as well as a decent vote for the left-bloc) is just typical in tough economic times. desperate times call for desperate measures and extreme policies make more and more sense when people ar elosing their jobs and struggling to put food on their tables.

than being said, FN, much like all racist/nazi parties shouldn't be legal imo.

ViceUltramontain
Apr 27th, 2012, 10:31 PM
It's legal because it's actually not openly doing anything nazi or racist.

debby
Apr 27th, 2012, 10:35 PM
It's legal because it's actually not openly doing anything nazi or racist.

Nazi yes.
Racist ? Ummm... I would beg to differ.... everyone knows they are racist, Marine Le Pen wants to prohibit immigration, her father said the Holocaust was a detail, etc.... the FN had racist scandals... but then it's not that open.
But yes, it's legal.

ViceUltramontain
Apr 27th, 2012, 10:37 PM
Being against immigration has nothing do with race in theory. They're not showing their true colours of course. But they stay in good terms with the law.

debby
Apr 27th, 2012, 10:43 PM
Being against immigration has nothing do with race in theory. They're not showing their true colours of course. But they stay in good terms with the law.

yeah I see what you mean and I agree. ;)

Still I don't understand why people voted Le Pen if they are not racist.
Because we are in an economical crisis?

But Marine's eco plan is terrible. Getting rid of euro would be a very huge mistake. Getting out of Europe too.
It would make things worse. Euro made things worse, but now we can't go back, we have to deal with it now... and to try to improve things. Banks are the problem, not the currency itself.

ViceUltramontain
Apr 27th, 2012, 10:50 PM
Some are agreeing with the FN and want to stop immigration. Some are agreeing cause they want to leave the EU and the others are just desperate workers who are not trusting the big candidates anymore.

The thing that surprise me is that people are acting like it's something new. Jean Marie Le Pen did 14.3 % in 88, 15% in 1995 and 16.8 in 2002. FN is rising for the last 20 years already.
They just did a bad election 5 years ago because Sarkozy was fighting with the same ideas to take their voters. But these voters are now disappointed with him cause he lied to them. He's not going to have these one back that easily next sunday.

tennisbum79
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:04 PM
such a substantial vote for FN (as well as a decent vote for the left-bloc) is just typical in tough economic times. desperate times call for desperate measures and extreme policies make more and more sense when people ar elosing their jobs and struggling to put food on their tables.

than being said, FN, much like all racist/nazi parties shouldn't be legal imo.
I never understand why in many European countries, why Hitler ideology is embraced by youth, wearing clothes with swastika and swastika tattooed on their bodies.
Especially in countries that were humiliated by the nazis, such as France, Poland, England, Russia, etc...


Of course, it is legal what the FN is doing, but they know exactly who their audience is. It ain't those who like non-white or gypsies.
For it is these people who are always blamed in desperate economic times.

debby
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:04 PM
Some are agreeing with the FN and want to stop immigration. Some are agreeing cause they want to leave the EU and the others are just desperate workers who are not trusting the big candidates anymore.

The thing that surprise me is that people are acting like it's something new. Jean Marie Le Pen did 14.3 % in 88, 15% in 1995 and 16.8 in 2002. FN is rising for the last 20 years already.
They just did a bad election 5 years ago because Sarkozy was fighting with the same ideas to take their voters. But these voters are now disappointed with him cause he lied to them. He's not going to have these one back that easily next sunday.

Well, then why do they want to leave the EU? Maybe there is some racism? or a bit too self centred about France....
and i disagree about desperate workers, I mean, why didn't they trust Melenchon? He made an amazing campaign, Marine didn't even do that well, yet she had almost 20%

This is depressing. That's why it's a big new. In 2007 , her father was around 11%.... :sad: anyway
And I won't be that sure about Sarkozy not getting them back that easily next Sunday. While I think it's likely Hollande is winning, it's still possible Sarkozy is reelected.

ViceUltramontain
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:08 PM
Melenchon is a clown. People are laughing with him and are interested. But at the end of the day, they don't want him as the head of the state.

frenchie
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:39 PM
Melenchon is ridiculous.

I truly believe that people who voted for Le Pen were mostly those who agree with her on the Muslim issues and the place this religion is taking in our society.

And this is typically the kind of lessons we should take from this vote

Chris 84
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:44 PM
Melenchon is ridiculous.

I truly believe that people who voted for Le Pen were mostly those who agree with her on the Muslim issues and the place this religion is taking in our society.

And this is typically the kind of lessons we should take from this vote

and you said that they aren't racist :lol:

its like saying that the germans who voted for hitler weren't racist - they just agreed with him on the Jewish issues and the place that religion was taking their society :lol:

ViceUltramontain
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:45 PM
and you said that they aren't racist :lol:

Racism has nothing to do with religion.

frenchie
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:47 PM
and you said that they aren't racist :lol:

pointing out problems in the country is not racist:confused:

I'm laic (don't know if the word exists in English?) living in a laic country and I don't want my life to be ruled by a religion's principles.

Chris 84
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:48 PM
Racism has nothing to do with religion.

oh, come now, if we wnat to get technical, "race" is a word that is practically impossible to define. as far as i'm concerned, we are all members of the human race and no matter what colour someone is, they are no different to other members of the human race.

religious hatred, racist hatred, same thing.

Chris 84
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:50 PM
pointing out problems in the country is not racist:confused:

I'm laic (don't know if the word exists in English?) living in a laic country and I don't want my life to be ruled by a religion's principles.

it doesn't exist, but please tell me how islam is governing french law. does sharia law exist in france? is there any prospect of it ever existing in france? answer = no. the muslim "problem" is a non-existent one.

frenchie
Apr 27th, 2012, 11:52 PM
oh, come now, if we wnat to get technical, "race" is a word that is practically impossible to define. as far as i'm concerned, we are all members of the human race and no matter what colour someone is, they are no different to other members of the human race.

religious hatred, racist hatred, same thing.

France has no problems with other religions who are more "low profile" on the public scene.

IMO Islam is going too far in their revendications and some seem to forget that the place of religion in our society is at home or in the place built for this effect (church, temple....)

fantic
May 2nd, 2012, 08:34 PM
The Economist's usual snobbish article about Hollander

LINK (http://starbucks.yahoo.com/wrapped?tileid=tile_home_1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fnode%2F215534 46%3Flat%3D34.425001%26long%3D-119.288544%26addr%3D11484%2BNorth%2BVentura%2BAven ue%2B%2BOjai%2BCA%26zip%3D93023%26vh%3Dddfeb40bd18 89e1f1dbffbc8aabbcebaa24681e9%26ts%3D1335703340&category=home)

ViceUltramontain
May 2nd, 2012, 08:35 PM
Debate live right now :cheer:

Sammo
May 2nd, 2012, 08:47 PM
I so want the goddamn dwarf to GTFO. I liked Carla Bruni tho

*JR*
May 3rd, 2012, 01:40 AM
The BNP candidate is an immigrant! :eek

An immigrant from Uruguay is a candidate for mayor of London.The irony is that Carlos Cortiglia is representing the far-right British National Party, known for its anti-immigration stance in UK politics.

Anchor Marco Werman tells us what the candidate has been saying about that. (Audio, pic in LINK (http://www.theworld.org/2012/05/british-nationalist-london-immigrant))

Mary Cherry.
May 3rd, 2012, 02:05 AM
I was reading this thread then once I clicked off, I had a PM from you about it :scared: Scary timing.

Unfortunately I'm daft as a brush and wouldn't be able to make any worthwhile input in this debate. I'm not even voting in my local elections.

Edward.
May 3rd, 2012, 05:30 AM
I'll be voting for Boris, shockingly. Ken has completely failed to make his case and has run a nasty, divisive campaign.

*JR*
May 3rd, 2012, 02:24 PM
(Don't worry Mary, the candidates are "daft as brushes" too) :help:

London mayoral election: Battle of the buses
By Peter Wilkinson, CNN
updated 6:42 AM EDT, Thu May 3, 2012

London (CNN) -- To an outsider, Thursday's contest to elect the next mayor of London would appear to be a fight between two larger-than-life characters -- known best by their first names -- for control of the city's famous red buses.

Among a wide field of candidates, only these two men have any realistic chance of taking a starring role at this summer's Olympic Games in London: Conservative Party incumbent Mayor Boris Johnson, 47, and his 66-year-old nemesis, Labour left-winger and former Mayor Ken Livingstone. Both men have devoted their energies to transport -- and attacking each other viciously on the issue, as well as on their complex personal tax arrangements.

With his distinctive nasal south London accent, Livingstone rose to fame in the early 1980s as leader of the Greater London Council. Livingstone -- populist, socialist, environmentalist -- was one of the few who stood up to Margaret Thatcher, the Conservative prime minister at the time, earning him the moniker "Red Ken."

Two decades later, Labour PM Tony Blair recreated the long-dormant job of London mayor, but if he hoped a similar-minded centrist would win, the move backfired. Livingstone was a feisty Labour member of Parliament, but when his party picked a blander, less troublesome candidate for mayor, he stood as an independent and cruised to victory. In revenge, he was expelled from Labour, though he was later brought back into the fold.

One of his first, and most unpopular, acts was to scrap the much-loved but decrepit fleet of Routemaster double-decker buses, dating from the 1950s. He replaced them with the "bendy bus," snake-like Mercedes vehicles that terrified road-users in the narrow streets. He also upgraded Underground trains and brought in a controversial congestion tax on motorists entering central London.

Livingstone served two terms before he was beaten in 2008 by Johnson, another maverick politician on the right of the political spectrum. The scruffy-haired Old Etonian ex-journalist, who appears to have emerged straight from a PG Wodehouse novel, inspired a cult following with spirited performances on a satirical BBC TV show that highlighted his blustering, easygoing charm.

Full mashup: http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/02/world/europe/london-mayoral-election/index.html

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120502014111-london-mayor-13-horizontal-gallery.jpg

Mynarco
May 3rd, 2012, 02:36 PM
A question about the political stances of the major papers(eg. Le Monde, Figaro...any others?) in France - how do the papers stand regarding to the presidential election this year? Is there a French equivalent of Daily Mail?

Sam L
May 3rd, 2012, 02:41 PM
A question about the political stances of the major papers(eg. Le Monde, Figaro...any others?) in France - how do the papers stand regarding to the presidential election this year? Is there a French equivalent of Daily Mail?
I think Figaro is right and le monde is left. But maybe things have changed and French posters can confirm.

And I don't think there is an equivalent of Daily Mail. French journalism is better than that. :p

ViceUltramontain
May 3rd, 2012, 05:19 PM
Le Monde was right historically but is mostly a lefty newspaper the past few years.
Le Figaro is right. It's the most Sarkozyst newspaper.
Le Canard Enchainé, Libération and l'Humanité are left.
La Croix is a christian newspaper, so right.
France Soir and le Parisien are slightly right but it begins to be mixed.
Le Point is right.
Marianne and Le Nouvel Observateur are left.

Newspapers are taking part in the election and are supporting (quite openly) their candidate.

What's about the Daily Mail ? I can't tell if there's an equivalent as I don't know what it is.

fantic
May 3rd, 2012, 05:33 PM
Le Monde was right historically but is mostly a lefty newspaper the past few years.
Le Figaro is right. It's the most Sarkozyst newspaper.
Le Canard Enchainé, Libération and l'Humanité are left.
La Croix is a christian newspaper, so right.
France Soir and le Parisien are slightly right but it begins to be mixed.
Le Point is right.
Marianne and Le Nouvel Observateur are left.

Newspapers are taking part in the election and are supporting (quite openly) their candidate.

What's about the Daily Mail ? I can't tell if there's an equivalent as I don't know what it is.

wiki on Le Monde;

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Monde)

"Le Monde was founded at the request of General Charles de Gaulle after the German army was driven from Paris during World War II, and took over the headquarters and layout of Le Temps, which was the most important newspaper in France before but whose reputation had suffered during the Occupation.[5] Beuve-Méry reportedly demanded total editorial independence as the condition for his taking on the project.

Often critical towards Charles de Gaulle, Le Monde was often described in the past as left-wing, but its editorial line may be more appropriately described nowadays as centre-left."

Unlike Le Temps, Chosun Ilbo, the top daily in South Korea, and which also was 'tainted' during the Japan Occupation(Ultra Conservative paper), is still going strong, without changing their name :rocker2:

*JR*
May 4th, 2012, 10:56 PM
Boris Johnson on course to win London mayoral contest
Labour swing narrows the gap but Tory incumbent is set to beat Ken Livingstone in tightly fought race

Hélène Mulholland
guardian.co.uk, Friday 4 May 2012 16.28 EDT

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/5/4/1336163259429/Boris-Johnson-008.jpg

Boris Johnson's return to City Hall will be met with relief in Downing Street after the Tories lost close to 400 seats in local elections. Photograph: Andy Rain/EPA

Boris Johnson appeared on course to win another four-year term as London mayor as voting returns indicated he had beaten his Labour rival, Ken Livingstone, in a tightly fought race. Some predicted that Johnson's expected win over Livingstone, on a low turnout of around 35%, could be on a narrower margin than in 2008.

As the count continued into the evening, Peter Kellner, president of pollsters YouGov, predicted an 8% swing to Labour on the London assembly, and 1% swing to Livingstone in the mayoral race, narrowing Johnson's majority. He pointed out that had Livingstone matched Labour's swing, "he would have won by a landslide".

More: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/04/boris-johnson-on-course-london

Of course I would have preferred if the "MILF Party" had won...

http://d4k7s9ho8qact.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/siobhanmanifesto-353x500.jpg?9d7bd4

Halardfan
May 5th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Boris Johnson on course to win London mayoral contest
Labour swing narrows the gap but Tory incumbent is set to beat Ken Livingstone in tightly fought race

Hélène Mulholland
guardian.co.uk, Friday 4 May 2012 16.28 EDT

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/5/4/1336163259429/Boris-Johnson-008.jpg

Boris Johnson's return to City Hall will be met with relief in Downing Street after the Tories lost close to 400 seats in local elections. Photograph: Andy Rain/EPA

Boris Johnson appeared on course to win another four-year term as London mayor as voting returns indicated he had beaten his Labour rival, Ken Livingstone, in a tightly fought race. Some predicted that Johnson's expected win over Livingstone, on a low turnout of around 35%, could be on a narrower margin than in 2008.

As the count continued into the evening, Peter Kellner, president of pollsters YouGov, predicted an 8% swing to Labour on the London assembly, and 1% swing to Livingstone in the mayoral race, narrowing Johnson's majority. He pointed out that had Livingstone matched Labour's swing, "he would have won by a landslide".

More: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/04/boris-johnson-on-course-london

Of course I would have preferred if the "MILF Party" had won...

http://d4k7s9ho8qact.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/siobhanmanifesto-353x500.jpg?9d7bd4

It highlights the problem with the Mayoral system, that it becomes too much about personality and not ideas. Labour had a great night in the local elections, with the Mayoral election the one black mark.

So goofy, affable Boris wins...I feel rather ashamed that he is London mayor at the time of the Olympics.

Cameron will have mixed feelings. The result is the one consolation for him, yet Boris is increasingly emerging as a rallying point for right-wing dissent.

PhilePhile
May 5th, 2012, 05:48 AM
It highlights the problem with the Mayoral system, that it becomes too much about personality and not ideas. Labour had a great night in the local elections, with the Mayoral election the one black mark.

So goofy, affable Boris wins...I feel rather ashamed that he is London mayor at the time of the Olympics.

Cameron will have mixed feelings. The result is the one consolation for him, yet Boris is increasingly emerging as a rallying point for right-wing dissent.

Can't really blame Boris since his Chinese counterparts were such stiffs :lol:.

http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.ittf.com/museum/chuckdonations/foster1890.jpg&sa=X&ei=rK6kT6qSEcqeiQKN7amZAg&ved=0CAkQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNFi3uLjlJeLIWAtUQsFZCsBaa4Stw

I have every confidence that when people come to london in 2012 , they're going to find a city that is very different from 1908.

Ping pong was invented on the dining table of England ... it was called "wiff-waff". The French looked at a dining table and saw an opportunity to have dinner, we looked at a dining table and saw an opportunity to play "wiff-waff". And that is why London is the sporting capital of the world. And I say to the Chinese ... and I say to the world, ping pong is coming home.

JsFRgIb8mAQ

PetraReeMona
May 5th, 2012, 08:50 AM
Good riddance Ken ..... you anti-Semitic bastard :wavey:

Well done Boris :worship:

Kennedypjp
May 5th, 2012, 09:23 AM
That would be a good idea!http://forexjobs.info/sd.gif

gentenaire
May 5th, 2012, 02:33 PM
At least Boris is entertaining.

Dave.
May 5th, 2012, 10:09 PM
Ultimately, as admirable as Ken Livingstone is, he was the wrong candidate and was always going to struggle against Boris.
It's a shame as all the other elections clearly indicate Labour support is back and well ahead of the Tories.

Oona King would have wiped the floor with Boris, which makes this result all the more regrettable.

AHrQYBYP5mU

ViceUltramontain
May 6th, 2012, 07:25 PM
François Hollande is the 7th president of the French Fifth Republic :cheer:

LeRoy.
May 6th, 2012, 07:33 PM
I guess Sarkozy had over stayed his welcome.

LeRoy.
May 6th, 2012, 07:37 PM
That said, a socialist winning at a time like now might be bad news for all of Europe. :shrug:

ViceUltramontain
May 6th, 2012, 07:39 PM
It's good news for human values and honesty.

tennisbum79
May 6th, 2012, 07:40 PM
As expected, France has a new president.

US press slow to report the news.
Saskozy is widely seen as "Sarko, l'Americain". Sarkozy, the American, and this did not help him.

France Elections: Hollande Beats Sarkozy To Become France President



http://i.huffpost.com/gen/595860/thumbs/s-FRANCE-ELECTIONS-2012-large.jpg Francois Hollande, French Socialist Party candidate for the 2012 presidential election,
waves to supporters prior to delivering his speech during a campaign rally in Forbach,
eastern France, Friday, May 4, 2012. (AP Photo/Francois Mori)


In an almost universally expected result, Socialist candidate François Hollande has unseated French president Nicolas Sarkozy, winning the French presidential runoff (https://twitter.com/#!/FRANCE24/status/199196845669494785) Sunday, France 24 reports. Hollande won 51.9 percent to Sarkozy's 48.1 percent.
Reuters has also confirmed Mr. Hollande's victory (https://twitter.com/#!/reuters/status/199197782597316608).

Mr. Sarkozy trailed Mr. Hollande (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/07/world/europe/hollande-and-sarkozy-in-crucial-runoff-in-france.html) in the days leading up to the runoff, according to the New York Times, and his popularity waned in the face of high unemployment, austerity and a possible recession throughout Europe.

The two candidates advanced to a runoff election (http://www.france24.com/en/20120506-europe-watches-waits-france-votes-president)after first-round elections held on April 22; according to France 24, Hollande won 28.63 percent of votes, while Sarkozy won 27.18 percent of votes. The surprise result of the first-round came for third-place Marine Le Pen of the far-right National Front, who won a surprising 17.90 percent of votes, the highest the right-wing party had ever secured in a presidential race.


Source http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/06/france-elections-2012-hollande-beats-sarkozy_n_1489482.html

LeRoy.
May 6th, 2012, 07:44 PM
Yes, Sarkozy is gone but i think having a socialist running France is NOT going to help the European economy's recover. :shrug: I think they are heading for a deep depression. All emerging markets (BRIC) are slowing down rapidly. I don't think this is good news for the US. :facepalm:

Corswandt
May 6th, 2012, 08:04 PM
Eat shit, Nicolau.

That said, a socialist winning at a time like now might be bad news for all of Europe. :shrug:

Why? It should be abundantly clear to all by now that the rotative/government center-right parties have no fucking clue on how to solve this crisis. It's more than time to give somebody else a chance to try out new possible solutions.

Chris 84
May 6th, 2012, 08:05 PM
well done, france.

bye bye sarko :wavey:

ViceUltramontain
May 6th, 2012, 08:12 PM
Cause there's something called freedom of opinion and some people are using it.

LeRoy.
May 6th, 2012, 08:14 PM
Lets just say there were no good options in this election. The lesser of the three evils won but i think now, more than ever, Europe's fate lies in the hands of Germany alone and that is too much pressure on one country. With unemployment rates of 24% in some european countries (over half the youth are unemployed :eek: ), the UK in the midst of a double dip recession, the emerging markets faltering, how will we ever get out of this mess ? :help: :facepalm:

ViceUltramontain
May 6th, 2012, 08:17 PM
Germany and its economic politics lead us into that crisis. The problem is the economic system. Giving money back to banks and making the middle class pay for everyone is not the solution.

Dave.
May 6th, 2012, 09:38 PM
Eat shit, Nicolau.



Why? It should be abundantly clear to all by now that the rotative/government center-right parties have no fucking clue on how to solve this crisis. It's more than time to give somebody else a chance to try out new possible solutions.

Exactly. Europe has had bad news for a long time, and it's not like the centre-right consensus hasn't had long enough to deal with it. The last few days of elections in France and UK are evidence that not only is the centre-right approach worsening the economic situation, but people have had enough of unfair austerity.

No idea what's happening in Greece though. :scared:

Mynarco
May 6th, 2012, 09:39 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2140482/Hollande-wins-French-presidency-Frances-electorate-voted-decline.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

:lol:

ViceUltramontain
May 6th, 2012, 09:46 PM
So pressed

Mynarco
May 6th, 2012, 10:04 PM
• Nantes (44), François Hollande obtient 62,96 % des voix, contre 37,04 % pour Nicolas Sarkozy http://lemde.fr/HoyqRH

• Quimper (29), François Hollande nettement en tête avec 63,48 % des voix http://lemde.fr/HyX6qw

• Bordeaux (33), François Hollande obtient 57,18 % des voix contre 42,82 % des voix à Nicolas Sarkozy http://lemde.fr/H6qIdG

• Annecy (74), Nicolas Sarkozy obtient 52,1 % des voix contre 47,9 % pour François Hollande http://lemde.fr/HWftGG

• Créteil (94), François Hollande est nettement en tête avec 61,6 % des voix http://lemde.fr/HorNQ0

• Poitiers (86), François Hollande obtient 55,5 % des voix, contre 44,5 % pour Nicolas Sarkozy http://lemde.fr/HAMAkn

• Maisons-Alfort (94), François Hollande obtient 50,9 % des voix, contre 49,1 % pour Nicolas Sarkozy http://lemde.fr/H8m1zt

• Massy (91), François Hollande très nettement premier avec 64,7 % des voix http://lemde.fr/H239rN

• Toulon (83), Nicolas Sarkozy obtient 58,35 % des voix, contre 41,65 pour François Hollande http://lemde.fr/HoxwVy

• Villejuif (94), François Hollande obtient 68,30 % des voix, contre 31,70 % pour Nicolas Sarkozy http://lemde.fr/H4Iapb

frenchie
May 6th, 2012, 10:48 PM
wrong choice IMO

FRANCE => game over

frenchie
May 6th, 2012, 10:53 PM
It's good news for human values and honesty.

LOL typical lefty comment:help:

Human values and honesty are values that everyone share.
It's the way to reach them that differs.

Vikapower
May 6th, 2012, 11:12 PM
:worship: Mon pays a pris ses responsabilités et il me râvi de voir toutes ses personnes qui ont décidés de changer le sort, leurs sort, de ce maintenant très pâle pays qui s'en vas totalement à la dérive et l'aurait été encore plus si Sarko-troll avait été laissé au pouvoir.

Maintenant, on peut respirer et regarder l'avenir avec beaucoup plus d'espoir.

ViceUltramontain
May 6th, 2012, 11:15 PM
:worship:

ys
May 6th, 2012, 11:25 PM
LOL typical lefty comment:help:

Human values and honesty are values that everyone share.
It's the way to reach them that differs.

Well. no need to argue, my friend. The red beast seems to have won the battle. It's a done deal, and now we'll have to wait and see what's going to come out of it. From my end I can only hope that pragmatism prevails over ideology in the new French government, and that in few months USA does not follow this suit.

new-york
May 6th, 2012, 11:26 PM
:worship: Mon pays a pris ses responsabilités et il me râvi de voir toutes ses personnes qui ont décidés de changer le sort, leurs sort, de ce maintenant très pâle pays qui s'en vas totalement à la dérive et l'aurait été encore plus si Sarko-troll avait été laissé au pouvoir.

Maintenant, on peut respirer et regarder l'avenir avec beaucoup plus d'espoir.

OMG.

Je suis d'accord avec toi sur un truc.

;).

CillyUltra
May 7th, 2012, 12:07 AM
I guess Sarkozy had over stayed his welcome.

http://s19.postimage.org/cqf7mw137/HE11017_Nicloas_Napoleon_Blanc_de_Blanc.jpg


French people are tired of this. :oh:

CillyUltra
May 7th, 2012, 12:07 AM
That said, a socialist winning at a time like now might be bad news for all of Europe. :shrug:

I guess Hollande knows that this rather unimpressive victory, mainly caused by the strong rejection of Sarkozy's personality, isn't a mandate for left-wing policies that blow up the European currency.

Germany and its economic politics lead us into that crisis.

Well, if you mean that, in absence of an effective EU control mechanism, corrupt and broken South European states used the chance to squander the money they had on hand due to low interest rates of a strong common currency, sustained by German solidity, you are right.

tennisbum79
May 7th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Well. no need to argue, my friend. The red beast seems to have won the battle. It's a done deal, and now we'll have to wait and see what's going to come out of it. From my end I can only hope that pragmatism prevails over ideology in the new French government, and that in few months USA does not follow this suit.
ys, I am curious to know what you think of Russian election results.

Your views are very well known on western democracies, you have contempt for democratic values, your only interest is the economy, free market economy where taxes are cutfor the rich , regulations are eliminated, unions are eliminated, no need for minimum wages

Given this, I understand why you said economy will thrive under dictatorship
Would you care comments on Putin Russia?

delicatecutter
May 7th, 2012, 12:28 AM
At least Sarkozy is attractive. :o

KournikovaFan91
May 7th, 2012, 01:30 AM
Germany and its economic politics lead us into that crisis. The problem is the economic system. Giving money back to banks and making the middle class pay for everyone is not the solution.

Agree with this, and their obsession with still controlling inflation is just worsening the situation, unlike the US federal reserve the ECB actually has no obligation to set policies to attempt to ensure full employment which is quite telling of how the ECB regards facts and figures as more important than people's welfare.

Milito22
May 7th, 2012, 01:36 AM
At least Sarkozy is attractive. :o


:scared:

fantic
May 7th, 2012, 08:34 AM
Why? It should be abundantly clear to all by now that the rotative/government center-right parties have no fucking clue on how to solve this crisis. It's more than time to give somebody else a chance to try out new possible solutions.

Exactly. Hoover gov. when the Depression struck had no clue either. The famous Andrew Mellon just repeated the mantra 'let it be' :tape:

LadyB
May 7th, 2012, 11:28 AM
At least Sarkozy is attractive. :o

Yes because this is the most important.

Edward.
May 7th, 2012, 12:38 PM
What an incredible result, I'm so very proud of France.

Finally, the plutocrats and their enablers are going to get the ginormous kicking they deserve. Hollande will finally give the French public a fair deal, rather than making them pay for other people's mistakes.

The system we have in place saw bankers crash the world economy under the light hand of deregulation and government encouragement. The public, who did nothing wrong, were forced to bail out these banks. Then in a gross perversion of anything that is decent and acceptable, the public was forced to swallow years of austerity while the people who caused the disaster get off completely scot free.

Capitalism is dying and not a moment too soon. The current system, an inverse socialism for the rich, which has allowed corporations and the rich to ransack the public coffers is finally being exposed for the sham it is and the people are finally turning against a system that has mollycoddled the wealthy since Thatcher and Reagan.

Next stop UK, where in good time Cameron, Osborne and the City of London will hopefully get their comeuppance.

The bankers, plutocrats, ad the obscenely rich will have nowhere to go. For every haven they flee to, the public should chase them out, until they agree to pay their fair share. Watching the filthy rich bounce around countries like pinballs will give me great satisfaction.

Sam L
May 7th, 2012, 01:25 PM
Not a surprising result but I'm happy for Hollande and France. Bonne chance!

Vikapower
May 7th, 2012, 02:52 PM
OMG.

Je suis d'accord avec toi sur un truc.

;).

:lol: Ah bein en dehors de ce forum (ou peut-être des forums (français) qui sont plus prochent des réalités et de la vrai vie) je suis sûr que l'on se rejoindrait sur beaucoup de chose (ou peut-être pas) -- :lol:

En terme de fonction publique (presque inévitable dans le cursus universitaire dans lequel je suis)/jeunesse bien sûr en étant socialiste de surcroît, il "pourrait" répondre à mes attentes, j'espère et évidemment à ceux des autres. ;)

Dave.
May 7th, 2012, 03:46 PM
Well. no need to argue, my friend. The red beast seems to have won the battle. It's a done deal, and now we'll have to wait and see what's going to come out of it. From my end I can only hope that pragmatism prevails over ideology in the new French government, and that in few months USA does not follow this suit.

Well it hasn't done so far under the centre-right, clearly.


What an incredible result, I'm so very proud of France.


Indeed. In contrast, as a Londoner I am ashamed that we re-elected Boris Johnson, in spite of all that has gone on.

KournikovaFan91
May 7th, 2012, 04:32 PM
Boris did get rid of bendy buses, did that not thrill you :lol:

Expat
May 7th, 2012, 05:24 PM
So Germany's bill to pay for Europe just got bigger.

fantic
May 7th, 2012, 05:44 PM
What an incredible result, I'm so very proud of France.

Finally, the plutocrats and their enablers are going to get the ginormous kicking they deserve. Hollande will finally give the French public a fair deal, rather than making them pay for other people's mistakes.

The system we have in place saw bankers crash the world economy under the light hand of deregulation and government encouragement. The public, who did nothing wrong, were forced to bail out these banks. Then in a gross perversion of anything that is decent and acceptable, the public was forced to swallow years of austerity while the people who caused the disaster get off completely scot free.

Capitalism is dying and not a moment too soon. The current system, an inverse socialism for the rich, which has allowed corporations and the rich to ransack the public coffers is finally being exposed for the sham it is and the people are finally turning against a system that has mollycoddled the wealthy since Thatcher and Reagan.


perfect analysis :yeah:

Well it hasn't done so far under the centre-right, clearly.


:tape: exactly.

Dave.
May 7th, 2012, 06:16 PM
Boris did get rid of bendy buses, did that not thrill you :lol:

I never got the hysteria about bendy buses actually :lol:

AjdeNate!
May 7th, 2012, 07:34 PM
I'm sad that Carla Bruni isn't the Queen of the French anymore. :sad:

azdaja
May 7th, 2012, 07:45 PM
good riddance sarkozy, you clown :bigwave: winning the last election as the lesser evil was so disgusting in the first place.

oh, and yeah, our (western) economy is not capitalism but socialism for the rich. as the chief sitting bull stated:

they take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
and since those times things have only gotten more ridiculous.

dybbuk
May 7th, 2012, 07:55 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3o0wn2IA21qz80pso1_500.png

"MSNBC Mistakenly Labels Nicolas Sarkozy A ‘Prostitute’"

LOL.

turtle-rn
May 7th, 2012, 09:31 PM
:worship: Mon pays a pris ses responsabilités et il me râvi de voir toutes ses personnes qui ont décidés de changer le sort, leurs sort, de ce maintenant très pâle pays qui s'en vas totalement à la dérive et l'aurait été encore plus si Sarko-troll avait été laissé au pouvoir.

Maintenant, on peut respirer et regarder l'avenir avec beaucoup plus d'espoir.
Un peu, pas beaucoup plus d'espoir, sinon le reste :worship:

*JR*
May 7th, 2012, 10:33 PM
http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4dd6c88bccd1d5db420b0000/strauss-kahn-dsk-sad.jpg :awww: .............. http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4dd1381949e2ae6b7a0a0000/tristane-banon.jpg :drool:

ys
May 8th, 2012, 12:49 AM
ys, I am curious to know what you think of Russian election results.

Your views are very well known on western democracies, you have contempt for democratic values, your only interest is the economy, free market economy where taxes are cutfor the rich , regulations are eliminated, unions are eliminated, no need for minimum wages

Given this, I understand why you said economy will thrive under dictatorship
Would you care comments on Putin Russia?

I thought I made my position clear on this. Putin can suppress the opposition all he wants, and even repress some radical liberals - in some moderate quantities, of course, - totally fine with me. I am in no way a fan of liberal democracy.
But liberal democracy is only inferior to intelligent autocracy in terms of economy management ( intelligent autocracy+liberal economy is still an unbeatable formula ). Liberal democracy is still vastly superior to corrupted and not intelligent autocracy of current Russia. Whether inaugurated Russian President is sincere in his declarations on fighting corruptions and supporting liberal economy as opposite to administrative big-project economy - remains to be seen. But I don't keep my expectation high.

KournikovaFan91
May 8th, 2012, 01:12 AM
I never got the hysteria about bendy buses actually :lol:

Me neither, I've seen them in other cities around the world where they don't seem to be an issue.

tennisbum79
May 8th, 2012, 01:25 AM
I thought I made my position clear on this. Putin can suppress the opposition all he wants, and even repress some radical liberals - in some moderate quantities, of course, - totally fine with me. I am in no way a fan of liberal democracy.
But liberal democracy is only inferior to intelligent autocracy in terms of economy management ( intelligent autocracy+liberal economy is still an unbeatable formula ). Liberal democracy is still vastly superior to corrupted and not intelligent autocracy of current Russia. Whether inaugurated Russian President is sincere in his declarations on fighting corruptions and supporting liberal economy as opposite to administrative big-project economy - remains to be seen. But I don't keep my expectation high.

I don't think you ever expanded your thoughts on Russia; I remember you had expressed lukewarm, tacit support for Putin, partially because you think his opposition is liberal, and you have no use for liberal thoughts. But mainly because you have prefer authoritarian type of rule, although you call it autocracy.

On the other hand, you do not hesitate to make sweeping statement about western countries, most them disapproving or highly condemnatory of the liberal segments in those countries.


This is the first time you have expressed a somewhat elaborate thought on Russian politics.

But my original question remains. Of all the countries in the world, why did you pick the USA to emigrate to when this country ideals and all it stands and are so fundamentally antithetical to your beliefs, at the least the one your have expressed in several discussions.

China could, would have been a good fit for you

Shinjiro
May 8th, 2012, 01:58 AM
Eat shit, Nicolau.



http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/524260_10150842033064487_754729486_9153630_1183744 502_n.jpg

ys
May 8th, 2012, 02:10 AM
But my original question remains. Of all the countries in the world, why did you pick the USA to emigrate


I haven't emigrated to here. My immigration to here happened eventually, but it was not an objective.
Why all hockey players want to play in NHL? Why all basketball players from all over the world want to play in NBA? Why all football players dream of English Premier League.
My industry has its "Premier League" here in USA. Not my choice, just a fact of life.


to when this country ideals and all it stands and are so fundamentally antithetical to your beliefs, at the least the one your have expressed in several discussions.

This country's current ideals are further from ideals of original American, then Chinese ones.
Primary American ideal has never been a democracy, or political freedom for that matter. It was just a freedom, self-reliance, striving, individual achievement.
It has never been becoming a nation of beggars for governmental help,.
It has never been becoming a nation of fat, obese morons, whose live revolves around shit like watching basketball or reality TV.
I t has never been becoming a nation where electoral majority pays no taxes and only ask for more from nanny state.
All that are achievements and consequences of liberal democracy - which exists in USA for barely 50-60 years.
My ideals are much closer to original Americans, than any of that.
It does not matter though. The history will run its course.

tennisbum79
May 8th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Primary American ideal has never been a democracy, or political freedom for that matter.

This is nonsense. You will not find an infinitesimal of Americans who agree with you on this

It has never been becoming a nation of beggars for governmental help,.
It has never been becoming a nation of fat, obese morons, whose live revolves around shit like watching basketball or reality TV.
I t has never been becoming a nation where electoral majority pays no taxes and only ask for more from nanny state.
All that are achievements and consequences of liberal democracy - which exists in USA for barely 50-60 years.
My ideals are much closer to original Americans, than any of that.
It does not matter though. The history will run its course.
These are just ranting on a lifestyle preference; and that also is quintessentially American.

People can do as they please, whether they want to be fat, watch basketball, hockey, Russian Ice skating, reality shows.
You got this one wrong. It seems like you are advocating the other extreme other nanny state, the right wing and fascist version: define for people what is desirable to aspire to and what is not.
That resemble the old Chinese model; NON-American

wta_zuperfann
May 8th, 2012, 04:43 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3o0wn2IA21qz80pso1_500.png

"MSNBC Mistakenly Labels Nicolas Sarkozy A ‘Prostitute’"

LOL.


I find it very interesting how the American media and how right wingers in the USA are all saying that socialism is the cause of the problems in Greece and throughout the Continent. Despite this belief, I have yet to find any European source that acknowledges socialism or left leaning politics as that cause.

tennisbum79
May 8th, 2012, 05:22 AM
There are people in many francophone Africa who would be happy.
Sarkozy has been heavy handed in his intervention and strong-armed handling of political crisis in former French colonies

KournikovaFan91
May 8th, 2012, 05:28 AM
There people in many francophone Africa who would be happy.
Sarkozy has been heavy handed in his intervention and strong-armed handling of political crisis in former French colonies

Agree, although this is pretty much a feature of right wing parties in the former colonial powers, UK, Spain and France.

They are all still deluded enough to believe they're empires.

fantic
May 8th, 2012, 05:41 AM
Agree, although this is pretty much a feature of right wing parties in the former colonial powers, UK, Spain and France.

They are all still deluded enough to believe they're empires.

Churchill :crying2:

ys
May 10th, 2012, 02:47 PM
Stopped by in Paris for a quick lunch, to check on my dear Parisiennes .. They look same happy and worry-free as always .. so, I guess, it is not that bad after all :)
Only a bit too hot for mid-May, for my taste, that is :)

Remix13
May 10th, 2012, 03:33 PM
Indeed it's hot today, thunderstorms are forecasted this evening. Back to cold temperature then :sad:

debby
May 10th, 2012, 07:13 PM
He won !!!!!!!!!! :bounce:

silverwhite
May 10th, 2012, 07:59 PM
Indeed it's hot today, thunderstorms are forecasted this evening. Back to cold temperature then :sad:

Why can't the weather stabilise for once? :o

ViceUltramontain
May 10th, 2012, 08:01 PM
Why can't the weather stabilise for once? :o

Cause it's freaking France Silv. Nothing is stable. Never.

silverwhite
May 10th, 2012, 08:02 PM
True. No wonder you are the way you are :oh:

ViceUltramontain
May 10th, 2012, 08:04 PM
He won !!!!!!!!!! :bounce:

You !

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzaw8gDwLQ1r88u00o1_400.gif

ViceUltramontain
May 10th, 2012, 08:04 PM
True. No wonder you are the way you are :oh:

Mentally unstable ?

silverwhite
May 10th, 2012, 08:07 PM
You said it :angel:

debby
May 10th, 2012, 08:19 PM
You !

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzaw8gDwLQ1r88u00o1_400.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3kuurEd7F1qb9pa3o1_500.gif

ViceUltramontain
May 10th, 2012, 08:27 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3kuurEd7F1qb9pa3o1_500.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw010oTLjX1qgere9.gif

debby
May 10th, 2012, 09:02 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw010oTLjX1qgere9.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwkilj10TP1qkyhuao7_r1_250.gif

silverwhite
May 10th, 2012, 09:09 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwkilj10TP1qkyhuao7_r1_250.gif

http://i45.tinypic.com/5by9nr.jpg

*JR*
May 13th, 2012, 04:38 PM
Austerity drives Europeans to extreme politics

Europeans are abandoning the mainstream political message of austerity and looking towards a more radical solution.
Paul AmesMay 13, 2012 07:46

BRUSSELS — Newly elected to parliament, the leader of Greece’s Nazi-inspired Golden Dawn party had a chilling message that resonated way beyond the borders of his troubled country.

“For those who betray this homeland, the time has come for fear. We are coming,” barked Nikolaos Michaloliakos, in a post-election press conference. “Greece is only the beginning.”

The election to the Greek parliament of 21 lawmakers under Golden Dawn’s swastika-like banner is symbolic of how the three-year economic crisis is radicalizing politics in much of Europe.

Full article: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/120511/austerity-drives-europeans-extreme-politics

*JR*
May 14th, 2012, 02:47 PM
Shareholder Spring: Investor anger takes on Occupy hue

(The haves vs. the have-mores) :woohoo:

Shareholders of blue-chip companies are rebelling against low dividends and excessive executive pay. And they're getting results.

Barry Neild May 11, 2012 06:00

LONDON — Ten weeks after officials dismantled a tented camp of Occupy protesters outside the London stock exchange and St Paul’s cathedral, one of their causes has been picked up by an unlikely new campaign group: shareholders.

Investors in the UK rarely rock the boat. But the past few weeks have seen them stage something of a revolt as simmering discontent over executive pay and poor dividends finally comes to the boil.

What has been labeled by the UK media as a “Shareholder Spring” — drawing a somewhat blithe comparison with last year’s uprisings in the Middle East — has seen investors in some of Britain's biggest companies object to pay awards being handed out at the top.

With heads also starting to roll, these newly emboldened shareholders could be further invigorated by renewed government debate over executive accountability. Could they succeed in reshaping the business landscape where Occupy activists and others have failed?

“Shareholders are finally waking up to this sort of thing,” says Deborah Hargreaves, director of the High Pay Centre, an independent think-tank that monitors executive remuneration. “It’s good to see them finally getting some backbone and taking action on this.”

Read more: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/united-kingdom/120510/shareholder-spring-investors-occupy-london

hellas719
May 21st, 2012, 03:54 AM
Austerity drives Europeans to extreme politics

Europeans are abandoning the mainstream political message of austerity and looking towards a more radical solution.
Paul AmesMay 13, 2012 07:46

BRUSSELS — Newly elected to parliament, the leader of Greece’s Nazi-inspired Golden Dawn party had a chilling message that resonated way beyond the borders of his troubled country.

“For those who betray this homeland, the time has come for fear. We are coming,” barked Nikolaos Michaloliakos, in a post-election press conference. “Greece is only the beginning.”

The election to the Greek parliament of 21 lawmakers under Golden Dawn’s swastika-like banner is symbolic of how the three-year economic crisis is radicalizing politics in much of Europe.

Full article: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/120511/austerity-drives-europeans-extreme-politics


:unsure:

NoppaNoppa
Jun 4th, 2012, 12:40 AM
Greece is on verge of voting Syriza to power :help: Have they lost their mind :confused: :sad: Yea, I´m sure they have plenty $$$ to RAISE unemployment benefits and pensions.... People there actually buy that crap without asking... :tape:

Chris 84
Jun 7th, 2012, 11:28 PM
Greece is on verge of voting Syriza to power :help: Have they lost their mind :confused: :sad: Yea, I´m sure they have plenty $$$ to RAISE unemployment benefits and pensions.... People there actually buy that crap without asking... :tape:

better than this alternative :o


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/greek-far-party-member-assaults-politicians-tv-133312118.html

NoppaNoppa
Jun 8th, 2012, 12:03 AM
better than this alternative :o


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/greek-far-party-member-assaults-politicians-tv-133312118.html

Really? Rather far left then far right? I take right every time!
Poor greeks.

Chris 84
Jun 9th, 2012, 04:13 PM
Really? Rather far left then far right? I take right every time!
Poor greeks.

of course better democratic socialism than neo-nazi lunatics. but that wasn't what i meant. assaulting a woman is pretty much as low as you can go. but for a politician to do it....live on tv....:o

Vlover
Jun 9th, 2012, 08:52 PM
of course better democratic socialism than neo-nazi lunatics. but that wasn't what i meant. assaulting a woman is pretty much as low as you can go. but for a politician to do it....live on tv....:o
I wonder how anyone with any decency could ever vote for a thug like that.:confused: I hope he is prosecuted and doesn't get away wih it.

NoppaNoppa
Jun 10th, 2012, 10:13 PM
assaulting a woman is pretty much as low as you can go..

Hardly. Communist got taste of what people think of COMMUNISM! Communists are lowest lifeform on earth. Period. Well there I said it.

On other news. Spain has "surprisingly" gone south. 4th eurozone member that Germany (and Finland) deeds to fund. I wonder when Germans figure this eurosocialist plan out :help:

Chris 84
Jun 10th, 2012, 10:18 PM
Hardly. Communist got taste of what people think of COMMUNISM! Communists are lowest lifeform on earth. Period. Well there I said it.

On other news. Spain has "surprisingly" gone south. 4th eurozone member that Germany (and Finland) deeds to fund. I wonder when Germans figure this eurosocialist plan out :help:

if that's your take on things, then it invalidates all of your arguments. if you can assault someone because they are communist, can you rape her too? kill her? and who decides which groups are the lowest form of life? some people think fascists are. some think muslims are. blacks. smokers. obese people. where do you draw the line?