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joaco
Nov 13th, 2002, 11:02 PM
Serena will have to prove herself again next year

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By Pam Shriver
Special to ESPN.com


LOS ANGELES -- It's an interesting way to end the year -- Serena Williams' loss gives more people the thought that they can challenge the Williams sisters. For fans who want to see a more level field with more contenders it shows that it's possible.

Kim Clijsters had it all set up for her Monday night. She got Serena on a night she would be below her best -- Jennifer Capriati ensured that. As long as Clijsters stayed sure of herself and kept it close, she had a pretty good chance.

In her biggest match before this, the finals of the 2001 French Open, Clijsters had shown that she was not intimidated by the big situations. And she has the talent. Still, the big story is that Serena was a good level below her normal self. Serena didn't quite have enough energy physically or mentally to close out the first set when she served for it. She needed to close this out in straight sets -- rather than going three hard sets on consecutive nights.

Still, the year is about Serena not losing a match in any of the majors in which she played. That's still the outstanding performer of the year. Serena has to be disappointed, but I hope tomorrow she sees herself holding those French Open, Wimbledon and U.S. Open trophies and this match should disappear in a couple of days.

She won't be taking a winning streak into the Australian Open next year. The Aussie Open is an interesting challenge because neither Williams sister has been through to the finals there. Serena has only gotten as far as the semifinals, while Venus never has gotten past the quarterfinals.

So the Australian Open stands out as the one they've never done. And each time they think about something they've never done, they get fired up about it.

Venus needs to get herself in better condition and raise her level again. She seems to have dropped another level. In the semifinals here, Capriati looked like the second-best player, and now Clijsters is in the mix.

It remains to be seen how Serena will hold up to the pressure of trying to remain No. 1. The pressure didn't affect her at the U.S.Open, but once you start a new year, it's different. And Venus and Capriati aren't just going to give it to her -- they aren't just in this for a couple of good years.

So we'll find out how she'll handle it. She hasn't stayed healthy for a 12-month period yet. She's won four majors and had an unbelievable year. Although one great year makes you a champion, it's not enough to make you a legend.

Hate when they talk erroneous facts... still good article but.. how many of them have we had yet this year...


Joaco

Monica_Rules
Nov 13th, 2002, 11:11 PM
OMG Pam Shriver wrote this:eek:

Does she know anything?

TSequoia01
Nov 13th, 2002, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Monica_Rules
OMG Pam Shriver wrote this:eek:

Does she know anything?


Evidently not a whole lot. Serena lost one tournament, one she did not even practice for and now she got a lot to prove. Boy is she in for a surprise. :cool:

Rocketta
Nov 13th, 2002, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by TSequoia01



Evidently not a whole lot. Serena lost one tournament, one she did not even practice for and now she got a lot to prove. Boy is she in for a surprise. :cool:

Isn't it hilarious?? :p

Gowza
Nov 13th, 2002, 11:25 PM
this is a stupid article especially the part about the AO when it says they haven't 'done it' yet. they hadn't 'done it' at the FO before this year so what makes them think they can't do it at the AO.

but i do think clijsters and capriati have stepped it up while venus has dropped a level. serena since the us open although only playing the championships and one other tournament hasn't played all that great and maybe is losing some motivation. i think she still wants to win but i think it is more the fact that venus is so done and serena doesn't like seeing venus in that state.

next year should be interesting especially looking at capriati and clijsters and the much anticipated impact of the new breed of players on the tour. some new girls are going to be incocnsistent but make big upsets while others will be more consistent and possbily get into the ranks of the top 20.

hingis-seles
Nov 13th, 2002, 11:52 PM
Pam's just a jealous old thing. :p

Serena's never gotten past the quarters. Venus is the one who's made it to the semifinals once.

I think Monica could do some damage in Melbourne!

TSequoia01
Nov 14th, 2002, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by hingis-seles
Pam's just a jealous old thing. :p

Serena's never gotten past the quarters. Venus is the one who's made it to the semifinals once.

I think Monica could do some damage in Melbourne!

I remember Pam dogging Serena in the early rounds at Berlin harping on how Serena has never reached a semifinal on clay. I remember her picking Capriati to win in the semis at Rome. The next thing I know she was picking Serena to win the French. Good pick by the way. So now Serena has never gotten past the quarters at the Aussie..:rolleyes: boy some people never learn. :p

Serendy Willick
Nov 14th, 2002, 12:32 AM
What a dumb azz article, I cant wait till the sisters "prove" Pam wrong but kicking the stuffing out of everyone at the AO.

2284
Nov 14th, 2002, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by hingis-seles


I think Monica could do some damage in Melbourne!

Even when she doesn't win the tournament, Monica ALWAYS does damage in Melbourne

Larrybid
Nov 14th, 2002, 06:58 AM
The article is fine. Pam said what WTA loving promoters are supposed to say - that there's hope yet for WTA players not named Williams. And of course she's right.

But the truth in what happened this past week is not hiding from anybody. Its' quite plain. The sisters don't take the indoor season (ie. anything after the US Open) very seriously. Most years they just bag it. This year Serena played a couple of tournaments then stopped. Venus played once, lost in the first round and then stopped. They then come back from not playing in weeks only to play in this isolated year end championships and are less than totally sharp. Well, DUH!!

Depite all that, had Venus not injured herself (probrably due to being less than totally fit) it all would have worked out for them anyway - the girls are that much ahead of the rest of the Tour. To me, the jury is still out on the tour. Venus and Serena have established a pattern of playing their way into shape. Venus may have slipped a bit, but still went another summer (practically) undefeated, for the 3 year running! Vee's is 3 time reigning champ at one summer event and 4 time champ at another. When Venus was asked what was different about this year that the last couple, she stated that she didn't put enough work in. I totally believe her. The only question is will the sisters come into the season in top shape? Neither ever has, and if neither makes it to the final at OZ it won't mean the Tour has caught up to them, its that they are starting the year behind, as is usually the case. Let's see the sisters take some losses in the summer months, and then I'll think sumthing may have changed.

tennisIlove09
Nov 14th, 2002, 07:30 AM
Actually, Pam has a point. Serena has only defend ONE title in her career; and she had a Golden chance to prove herself on Monday night.

I hope Serena can stay mentally tough, or I hope she can win the Australian. If not, she may have a slamless year

CC
Nov 14th, 2002, 01:46 PM
Quote Larrybid
... and if neither makes it to the final at OZ it won't mean the Tour has caught up to them, its that they are starting the year behind, as is usually the case.
Let's see the sisters take some losses in the summer months, and then I'll think sumthing may have changed.

This makes sense.

treufreund
Nov 14th, 2002, 01:52 PM
i hate articles like this. in fact I hate any article written by Spam Shriver.

TSequoia01
Nov 14th, 2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Larrybid
The article is fine. Pam said what WTA loving promoters are supposed to say - that there's hope yet for WTA players not named Williams. And of course she's right.

But the truth in what happened this past week is not hiding from anybody. Its' quite plain. The sisters don't take the indoor season (ie. anything after the US Open) very seriously. Most years they just bag it. This year Serena played a couple of tournaments then stopped. Venus played once, lost in the first round and then stopped. They then come back from not playing in weeks only to play in this isolated year end championships and are less than totally sharp. Well, DUH!!

Depite all that, had Venus not injured herself (probrably due to being less than totally fit) it all would have worked out for them anyway - the girls are that much ahead of the rest of the Tour. To me, the jury is still out on the tour. Venus and Serena have established a pattern of playing their way into shape. Venus may have slipped a bit, but still went another summer (practically) undefeated, for the 3 year running! Vee's is 3 time reigning champ at one summer event and 4 time champ at another. When Venus was asked what was different about this year that the last couple, she stated that she didn't put enough work in. I totally believe her. The only question is will the sisters come into the season in top shape? Neither ever has, and if neither makes it to the final at OZ it won't mean the Tour has caught up to them, its that they are starting the year behind, as is usually the case. Let's see the sisters take some losses in the summer months, and then I'll think sumthing may have changed.

Great post and truer words have never been spoken! :D

Roseie
Nov 14th, 2002, 06:24 PM
Venus always seems to get short-changed by the media. The thing that pisses me off, is how every time they talk about Serena 1999 US OPEN win, they show Venus face loking serious, which is how she always looks like in the stands. They say how jealous she was of her sister. How do they know that? When they talk or write about Serena great year, they always bring venus in, as some kind of measuring stick for Serena. I can't stand the media. Venus had a great year in 2000, just as good as Serena this year. She won 2 Majors & 2 gold medals. She was unbeatable from Wim through the US OPEN. In 2001 she was far better than Capiati who was the press darling. Now this year she's being written off. How could Shriver say that Capiati looks like the #2 player. Venus won both her matches in straight sets. Capiati played the best I've seen her play & lost to a subpar Serena. How did she look like the #2 player?

Larrybid
Nov 14th, 2002, 07:28 PM
Pam must have meant that she looked like the #2 player IN THAT MATCH. It certainly couldn't have taken into account her play the last few months. Even if thats what she meant, I beleive the Venus Williams in the form that played Monica Seles (ie. fairly ordinary) in LA, would have beaten Serena the way she played in her win against Cappy. Cappy is simply too easy to break these days.

joaco
Nov 15th, 2002, 01:16 AM
I believe Pam Shriver makes a point, still she says some nonsense. She's just talking about facts, and these have prooved nothing for the Williams this past year.
Tennis is so unpredictable, she can just talked so self assured about something thatr we don't really know it's going to happen, but it's true, as every number one player has been through, she will have to handle pressure and who knows how she willll manage

Joaco

lizchris
Nov 15th, 2002, 01:21 AM
I wonder did Pam say Jennifer had to prover hefself in 2002 at the end of 2001?

leslie
Nov 15th, 2002, 02:11 AM
Pam cannot stand the W/S, and we know why: 1. she's jealous of them because they have accomplished more than she has in titles and financially, 2. They are black and should not have accomplished so much, 3. She would like every WTA foman to beat them, and believe me Venus did not choose her to be her mentor, Venus probably would have preferred BJK to be her mentor. Overall I do not know why all of thoes commentors hate the W/S they are very nice decent young ladies who goes about their business and never have a bad word to say about anyone. Maybe that's why they are so blessed and doing so well. And I wish Venus all the best in her new/additional career, she is one smart cookie and truly a pioneer. We will start seeing other tennis players walking in her foot steps. You know what, maybe Kim could hire her to decorate her new house but then she might not be able to afford Vee's prices.

2284
Nov 15th, 2002, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by leslie
You know what, maybe Kim could hire her to decorate her new house but then she might not be able to afford Vee's prices.

More likely scenario:
Venus wants to buy designer furniture for Kim's house.
Kim is worried that Beauty will chew it up :p

Williams Rulez
Nov 15th, 2002, 12:51 PM
How embarrassing... to think she is a commentator who played tennis once... :o

Jan
Nov 15th, 2002, 01:01 PM
Well Serena and Venus will have to defend a whole lot of points whereas Lindsay has none to defend until just before the US Open. Its one thing getting to the Top and another thing staying there, so it will be interesting to see what happens!

Its congrats to Steffi Graf and Martina Hingis for staying at the Top so long. Two superb champions in my book.

:D

Sam L
Nov 15th, 2002, 01:05 PM
Pam does NOT hate the Williams sisters and neither is she jealous of them. I don't like her one bit but that's something she's not guilty of. Plus she used to be Venus' mentor :confused:

I'm not even reading this article but some of the comments about Pam are unfair, she's the biggest fan of the Williams sisters :rolleyes:

Williams Rulez
Nov 15th, 2002, 01:06 PM
But she's messing up her facts... :o

tennisIlove09
Nov 15th, 2002, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by leslie
Pam cannot stand the W/S, and we know why: 1. she's jealous of them because they have accomplished more than she has in titles and financially, 2. They are black and should not have accomplished so much, 3. She would like every WTA foman to beat them, and believe me Venus did not choose her to be her mentor, Venus probably would have preferred BJK to be her mentor. Overall I do not know why all of thoes commentors hate the W/S they are very nice decent young ladies who goes about their business and never have a bad word to say about anyone. Maybe that's why they are so blessed and doing so well. And I wish Venus all the best in her new/additional career, she is one smart cookie and truly a pioneer. We will start seeing other tennis players walking in her foot steps. You know what, maybe Kim could hire her to decorate her new house but then she might not be able to afford Vee's prices.

This is such a joke.

Pam Shriver does not hate the Williams'. She used to be Venus' mentor! And the PLAYERS get to choose who they want to be there mentor!! So Venus wanting BJK is way out to lunch.

I've always felt that Pam was very respectful of Richard, Oracene, Serena and Venus when doing matches. I don't find this article any different.

Perhaps she said Capriati was playing like #2 because she took a set off Serena, and played in a great match. We didn't see a great match with the sisters this year, and all were straight set matches.

Serendy Willick
Nov 15th, 2002, 08:09 PM
Sorry, but one good tournement results does not make you playingthe number two in the world. Venus also made it to the semis, and had she been healthy she wouldve had an excellent chance to make it to go to the finals. Pam must have selecive memory or she wouldve thought about Cappys sucky results before the WTA champs.

CC
Nov 15th, 2002, 08:14 PM
I actually didn't think the article was all that bad. She mixed up Venus and Serena when she talked about Australia, but that's really it. When she mentioned Capriati as playing like #2, she did say in the LA semifinals.

TSequoia01
Nov 15th, 2002, 08:30 PM
Everyone knows what Pam's mission here is. Low key the Williams while building the rest of the tour up. This is probably not her idea, but a way by management to make the WTA appealing. I hope it works, but really, what happened this year is going to happen next year. Serena has a lot to prove....yeah right. :cool:

selesrules
Nov 15th, 2002, 08:32 PM
Pam Shriver can say whatever she wants. She's a hall of famer, you should all bow to her feet. Serena and all the players are lucky that Shriver even takes time to mention their names. Queen PAM is a hall of famer. WOW :angel:

BK4ever
Nov 15th, 2002, 09:08 PM
Pam talks out of her ass most of the time...

If you listen to her for an entire match she will contradict herself many times. She talks so much shit that she forgets what she says.

I wish I could watch every tennis match with BJK and Martina commentating...

Jakeev
Nov 15th, 2002, 09:14 PM
I am not sure what everyone is dumping on Pam about. Outside her error that Serena has made it to the Aussie semis, I thought the article was rather objective and not unflattering at all.

I don't see what anyone is worried about anyway. t's gonna take a lot for the rest of the field to catch up to her and Serena is gonna have to lose rather early in tournaments to lose the top spot.

leslie
Nov 16th, 2002, 12:13 AM
tennisIlove09

I guess you listen to Pam and Maryjoe with your ears close. Thoes women cannot STAND THE WS period. Listen to their commentary carefully. They are so negative against those young ladies it is pathetic. Pam and Maryjoe always favors thoes european players and hate they own American players (the two black famous ones that is). I wish when the WS playing they would have objective commentators instead of thoes two. another thing when they think Venus and Serena are going to lose a match and the come back and win you do not hear a sound from them. Prime example that match between jennifer and Serena. All the Williams fans know the hatred they have for those girls.

moon
Nov 16th, 2002, 01:12 AM
I agree that Pam doesn't hate the Williamses. In fact I think Venus is probably one of her favorite players. I think whoever said she was toeing the party line by "playing down the Williamses and playing up everyone else" is probably right.

Jakeev
Nov 16th, 2002, 01:20 AM
lESLIE YOU SOUND LIKE A BITTER PILL.......

lizchris
Nov 16th, 2002, 02:02 AM
Pam Shriver doesn't hate the sisters; in fact, when Venus was injured, she seemed really concerned. I think that is becasue she has a relationship with Venus since she was her WTA mentor. Mary Joe, on the other hand, was giddy at the sight of Venus hobbling around trying to play on Sunday. Right before the clay court serson, she was the one who said the sisters have problems playing on clay, even though Venus was the Italian Open in 1999, the French Open doubles with her sister, and the Betty Barclay Cup in 2001. Then she was shut up when Serena got to the final of the German Open, won the Italian Open and won the French Open. Even since then, she has been happy when the sisters lost, which in 2002 hadn't been often.

tennisIlove09
Nov 16th, 2002, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by lizchris
Pam Shriver doesn't hate the sisters; in fact, when Venus was injured, she seemed really concerned. I think that is becasue she has a relationship with Venus since she was her WTA mentor. Mary Joe, on the other hand, was giddy at the sight of Venus hobbling around trying to play on Sunday. Right before the clay court serson, she was the one who said the sisters have problems playing on clay, even though Venus was the Italian Open in 1999, the French Open doubles with her sister, and the Betty Barclay Cup in 2001. Then she was shut up when Serena got to the final of the German Open, won the Italian Open and won the French Open. Even since then, she has been happy when the sisters lost, which in 2002 hadn't been often.

Yes. Mary Joe, I don't think likes the sisters, but Pam, I think does.

BasicTennis
Nov 16th, 2002, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by joaco
Serena will have to prove herself again next year

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Pam Shriver

So we'll find out how she'll handle it. She hasn't stayed healthy for a 12-month period yet. She's won four majors and had an unbelievable year. Although one great year makes you a champion, it's not enough to make you a legend.


...and Pam considers herself a legend without even winning a singles GS title.:o Pam doesn't deserve to be in tha hall of fame.:p

persond
Nov 16th, 2002, 07:02 AM
:D :D Can someone please explain to me the logic here.!!! Serena ends the season as no.1, and is the finalist at the year end championship tournament. She's won 3 of the 4 slams this year. So, according to most, she has to prove herself next year. And, yet, Clijsters, who only won 3 tournaments, including the year end championships, is hailed as the one to beat!!! Everyone and their grandmamas have predicted Clijsters to win a slam, and foresee a "grand slam" year for her!!! I DON'T GET IT?????????:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Please, explain the rationale for these predictions, and all the hoopla associated with Clijsters' win over Serena at the Championships. Honestly, I don't get it!!!!

vs1
Nov 16th, 2002, 07:40 AM
Whatever.

BasicTennis
Nov 16th, 2002, 07:42 AM
wherever.