PDA

View Full Version : What do they consider Spanish people in the United States? White or Latin?


Sammo
Jan 6th, 2012, 02:12 AM
Just curious.

ToopsTame
Jan 6th, 2012, 05:28 AM
If from Spain, usually white. If from Latin America, always Hispanic/Latino. It doesn't really make sense, no other part of the world uses the made up label "Hispanic." Latin Americans can have very detailed notions of Espanoles/Mestizos/Indios/Mullatos/Negroes etc. etc. but in the US, they're all grouped as non-white Latinos.

njnetswill
Jan 6th, 2012, 05:44 AM
The term Hispanic has now officially been non-racialized in the US Census, I believe, which is a step in the right direction, because "non-white Hispanic" made no sense whatsoever and just made demographic data all the more confusing.

But to answer the original question, if you look white, Americans will think of you as white. Most Americans think purely in color terms so if you are a light-skinned Cuban, Mexican, Colombian, Argentinian, etc. people will assume you are another white person and ignore your cultural and linguistic background becaue "Latino" to most white Americans means "brown skin" :o

Helen Lawson
Jan 6th, 2012, 09:55 AM
In desperate need of English lessons.

Javi.
Jan 6th, 2012, 12:13 PM
:spit: :spit:
Most of people born in Spain are white.

ElusiveChanteuse
Jan 6th, 2012, 12:55 PM
In Spain (own place), white for sure but in the US, Latin.:oh:

propi
Jan 6th, 2012, 02:04 PM
LOL that´s a funny question because we are at the same time European, Mediterranean and Latin, as Italian or French :p

pov
Jan 6th, 2012, 02:42 PM
In Spain (own place), white for sure but in the US, Latin.:oh:
Not so. In the USA people from Spain are called Spanish and considered white. People from the Spanish-speaking Americas ("Latin America") are called Hispanic and considered "Latin" which is short for Latin American.

jjlove
Jan 6th, 2012, 09:01 PM
Bearing in mind that half of the population can't locate Spain in a map... Just kidding :p As they said above, it depends on the skin color

ToopsTame
Jan 6th, 2012, 09:06 PM
Bearing in mind that half of the population can't locate Spain in a map... Just kidding :p As they said above, it depends on the skin color

Half the population can't locate the US on a map. Forget about Spain. We aren't that bright:o

If you asked people what race Charlie Sheen was, they'd probably say white. If you asked about Emilio Estevez, they'd say Latino. :help:

Sammo
Jan 6th, 2012, 09:18 PM
Half the population can't locate the US on a map. Forget about Spain. We aren't that bright:o

If you asked people what race Charlie Sheen was, they'd probably say white. If you asked about Emilio Estevez, they'd say Latino. :help:

And it's sad because he's like 3/4 Irish and 1/4 Spanish :facepalm:

Sammo
Jan 6th, 2012, 09:23 PM
In desperate need of English lessons.

I just had a little mess with the title :rolleyes:

edificio
Jan 7th, 2012, 12:42 AM
Generally, people from Spain are considered Spanish. :shrug:

Charlatan
Jan 7th, 2012, 03:34 AM
As far as I know, they (Americans) would refer people (immigrants :p) from Mexico, Cuba and mostly from the South America as Hispanics/ Latinos since the majority of them are brown. It's generally based on one's skin color. You can have light-skin people from those same countries, but u might mistake them as whites, so they won't refer them as Hispanics/ Latinos. Well, that's my knowledge

delicatecutter
Jan 7th, 2012, 03:41 AM
Hard to say. Many of the Spanish tennis players I don't think would be classified as white if they were from the Americas. Aranxa, Nadal, etc.

Calvin M.
Jan 7th, 2012, 04:06 AM
First of all, I don't know about the rest of country but it seems to me that it's only on the East Coast where people with roots in Spanish-speaking countries are called "Spanish". In NYC they even say "spanish food" when the meal is actually Puerto Rican, Dominican or Cuban or "spanish music" when it's salsa or merengue.

In my experience, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Cubans, Mexicans and anyone else who is spanish speaking but not from Spain, are Latino/Hispanic. After that, based on their looks, they're either white (Jennifer Lopez, Ricky Martin) or black (Zoe Saldana, Sammy Sosa).

I just had a little mess with the title :rolleyes:

I believe her reply to you was a joke. Her answer to your question "What do they consider..." was "in desperate need of English lessons." She wasn't referring to you (that's my take).

Hard to say. Many of the Spanish tennis players I don't think would be classified as white if they were from the Americas. Aranxa, Nadal, etc.

Nadal definitely. He, Conchita Martinez, Antonio Banderas, Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz look Latino (American definition).

Novichok
Jan 7th, 2012, 04:27 AM
Depends on how "white" you look. Rafa probably wouldn't be considered white by most people at least not here in Texas.

Stamp Paid
Jan 7th, 2012, 04:50 AM
It really depends on how they look and where they live.
Some Hispanic people are considered Latino/a, some white, some are considered black.

it-girl
Jan 7th, 2012, 06:09 AM
They consider Spanish people to be Hispanic, Spanish or Latino. I've never heard of Any Americans considering a Spanish person to be white.

pov
Jan 7th, 2012, 04:40 PM
They consider Spanish people to be Hispanic, Spanish or Latino. I've never heard of Any Americans considering a Spanish person to be white.


Once again:

In general, people from Spain are considered white in the USA. Period. Just like people from Italy, France, etc.

Hispanics and Latinos are generally people from Latin America - not people from Spain.

Stamp Paid
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:01 PM
Once again:

In general, people from Spain are considered white in the USA. Period. Just like people from Italy, France, etc.

Hispanics and Latinos are generally people from Latin America - not people from Spain.It depends on how "ethnic" the person looks, in addition to where you live in the US.
Like someone else said, if Nadal and Carlos Moya were seen walking down the street in Texas, Arizona, or California, they would not be considered white. And in Alabama they might get stopped to asked for identification to make sure they're not illegal immigrants.

Beat
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:13 PM
I've never heard of Any Americans considering a Spanish person to be white.

:rolls:

FORZA SARITA
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:34 PM
:rolls:

IKR :tape:

Milito22
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:39 PM
Latin/a/o is race? :unsure::o

dsanders06
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:43 PM
It's strange, I'm pretty sure most countries other than the US consider all "Hispanics" to just be white. Certainly Spaniards are considered white.

Is Brazil counted as part of Latin America?

Stamp Paid
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:44 PM
Latin/a/o is race? :unsure::oIn the US, yes. Stupid isn't it? :lol:

Stamp Paid
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:46 PM
It's strange, I'm pretty sure most countries other than the US consider all "Hispanics" to just be white. Certainly Spaniards are considered white.

Is Brazil counted as part of Latin America?Yes, and all of the countries in the Caribbean are considered to be a part of Latin America as well.

Novichok
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:47 PM
It's strange, I'm pretty sure most countries other than the US consider all "Hispanics" to just be white. Certainly Spaniards are considered white.

Is Brazil counted as part of Latin America?

That's just as strange, considering that there's millions of black/indigenous/mixed race Hispanics.

Stamp Paid
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:49 PM
That's just as strange, considering that there's millions of black/indigenous/mixed race Hispanics.Racial categorizations are just so ridiculous.
People from North Africa and the Middle East are considered white in the US census :lol:

Nicolás89
Jan 7th, 2012, 05:57 PM
The term Hispanic has now officially been non-racialized in the US Census, I believe, which is a step in the right direction, because "non-white Hispanic" made no sense whatsoever and just made demographic data all the more confusing.

But to answer the original question, if you look white, Americans will think of you as white. Most Americans think purely in color terms so if you are a light-skinned Cuban, Mexican, Colombian, Argentinian, etc. people will assume you are another white person and ignore your cultural and linguistic background becaue "Latino" to most white Americans means "brown skin" :o

Yea that's pretty much my experience when I'm abroad. For most people in my country and in other latin locations I'm white, really pale looking, in the US/Canada I'm white and tanned (lol), when I was in Spain I passed as an spaniard, the only thing that gives away my ethnic background is my accent and not even that, I had been mistaken for a kiwi before. :sobbing:

spiceboy
Jan 7th, 2012, 08:08 PM
Hard to say. Many of the Spanish tennis players I don't think would be classified as white if they were from the Americas. Aranxa, Nadal, etc.

First of all, I don't know about the rest of country but it seems to me that it's only on the East Coast where people with roots in Spanish-speaking countries are called "Spanish". In NYC they even say "spanish food" when the meal is actually Puerto Rican, Dominican or Cuban or "spanish music" when it's salsa or merengue.

In my experience, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Cubans, Mexicans and anyone else who is spanish speaking but not from Spain, are Latino/Hispanic. After that, based on their looks, they're either white (Jennifer Lopez, Ricky Martin) or black (Zoe Saldana, Sammy Sosa).



I believe her reply to you was a joke. Her answer to your question "What do they consider..." was "in desperate need of English lessons." She wasn't referring to you (that's my take).



Nadal definitely. He, Conchita Martinez, Antonio Banderas, Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz look Latino (American definition).

Depends on how "white" you look. Rafa probably wouldn't be considered white by most people at least not here in Texas.

They consider Spanish people to be Hispanic, Spanish or Latino. I've never heard of Any Americans considering a Spanish person to be white.

It depends on how "ethnic" the person looks, in addition to where you live in the US.
Like someone else said, if Nadal and Carlos Moya were seen walking down the street in Texas, Arizona, or California, they would not be considered white. And in Alabama they might get stopped to asked for identification to make sure they're not illegal immigrants.

Ignorance :facepalm:

There is a difference between Latinos and Mediterranean :help:
So Flavia Pennetta, Monica Bellucci, Maria Callas are/were considered latinos as well? And please, Moyà not being considered white? :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://imagenesfotos.com/wp-content/2010/09/carlos_moya12.jpg

So basically if you have dark hair and got a tan (If Nadal, Moyà, etc. were not tennis players they wouldn't be so tanned) you are a Latino? Quite stupid thinking...

Stamp Paid
Jan 7th, 2012, 08:15 PM
Ignorance :facepalm:

There is a difference between Latinos and Mediterranean :help:
So Flavia Pennetta, Monica Bellucci, Maria Callas are/were considered latinos as well? And please, Moyà not being considered white? :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://imagenesfotos.com/wp-content/2010/09/carlos_moya12.jpg

So basically if you have dark hair and got a tan (If Nadal, Moyà, etc. were not tennis players they wouldn't be so tanned) you are a Latino? Quite stupid thinking...And you speak Spanish? In the United States (particularly in places like the South and the Southwest), yes.

Who are you calling ignorant, me or the people that think that? I'm just sharing what most people in America would think when they see those people, I'm not giving my own opinion. I know the difference between a Spaniard and a Hispanic person.

Novichok
Jan 7th, 2012, 08:30 PM
Ignorance :facepalm:

There is a difference between Latinos and Mediterranean :help:
So Flavia Pennetta, Monica Bellucci, Maria Callas are/were considered latinos as well? And please, Moyà not being considered white? :lol: :lol: :lol:



So basically if you have dark hair and got a tan (If Nadal, Moyà, etc. were not tennis players they wouldn't be so tanned) you are a Latino? Quite stupid thinking...

There's really nothing very ignorant about any of those quotes. Here in Texas, most people would not consider a person who looked like Rafa to be white. They would probably assume that he's Mexican and not a white Mexican. :lol:

it-girl
Jan 7th, 2012, 08:44 PM
It is amazing how some people react to things in this forum. I've lived in the United States pretty much all of my life and I am speaking from what I know and have seen with my own eyes. There are different categories for race in America and the only people considered white are those of Caucasian descent. It is not just about the color of your skin because there are very light people in all races. It is about your origin also and people of a Latin decent are not considered white in America. And yes on most things they have Hispanic & Latino Americans grouped together in the same section.

PhilePhile
Jan 8th, 2012, 03:04 AM
In Arizona, they are illegal aliens ("whites" are the legal ones:secret:).

Pirata.
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:01 AM
It is amazing how some people react to things in this forum. I've lived in the United States pretty much all of my life and I am speaking from what I know and have seen with my own eyes. There are different categories for race in America and the only people considered white are those of Caucasian descent. It is not just about the color of your skin because there are very light people in all races. It is about your origin also and people of a Latin decent are not considered white in America. And yes on most things they have Hispanic & Latino Americans grouped together in the same section.

This is not completely true, and besides most people aren't going to ask your personal ancestry before guessing your race. Many people go by appearance, and if you don't look stereotypically white, then they will label you Hispanic or black.

I don't think people would immediately label Moya as Hispanic, but for sure Nadal, Verdasco and definitely Almagro would be considered Latino/Hispanic. Robredo would probably be considered white, as well as Lopez. Not sure about Ferrer and Ferrero.

Barrie_Dude
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:04 AM
Spanish is Hispanic. Latin is a far broader term that would take in Greeks. Italians and French to a large degree

Pirata.
Jan 8th, 2012, 09:28 AM
That's true, but I hear people use it in the US use it far more interchangeably with Latino/a, which refers to people who are from Central and South America, especially if they are more mixed race. Latin is a completely different thing from Latino.

Sam L
Jan 8th, 2012, 09:39 AM
Spanish is Hispanic. Latin is a far broader term that would take in Greeks. Italians and French to a large degree

Why would it take in Greeks? :confused:

Barrie_Dude
Jan 8th, 2012, 10:42 AM
Why would it take in Greeks? :confused:
The whole culture originated with the Greeks.

Barrie_Dude
Jan 8th, 2012, 10:47 AM
That's true, but I hear people use it in the US use it far more interchangeably with Latino/a, which refers to people who are from Central and South America, especially if they are more mixed race. Latin is a completely different thing from Latino.
To some extent that is true. But I think its a regional thing. Chicago and New York you might hear Latino. Texas to So Cal you hear more hispanic. I subscribe more with hispanic myself. But its really hard to use one or another tag because it really describes a broad range of people. Those from Mexico, Central and South America. Parts of the Carribean (Purteo Rico) and Spain. As well as people that were born and rasied in the USA.

Sam L
Jan 8th, 2012, 11:34 AM
The whole culture originated with the Greeks.
Then you might as well call all westerners Greeks. :tape:

Since we are talking about Spanish or Latinos, the widest you can stretch is those who speak Latin or Romance languages which would include French, Italian, Romanian cultures. But that's it.

The main point being that Latin does not take in Greek at all considering Latin is of the Italic branch and Greek the Hellenic branch of the Indo-European languages.

melodynelson
Jan 8th, 2012, 12:12 PM
Most people here in Portugal identify themselves as white, even though clearly we're generally Latin or Mediterranean. Some have fair, pale skin but even the darker ones think they're white.

I know it's not a US perspective, but still relevant I think.

Beat
Jan 8th, 2012, 12:27 PM
Here in Texas, most people would not consider a person who looked like Rafa to be white. They would probably assume that he's Mexican and not a white Mexican. :lol:

you gotta be fucking kidding me.

delicatecutter
Jan 8th, 2012, 12:32 PM
you gotta be fucking kidding me.

He's right. :lol:

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 8th, 2012, 12:35 PM
Yeah its pretty interesting....I've even noticed many also go by "brown" latino's (puerto ricans, dominicans, haitians) because they look EXACTLY like African Americans, just about share the same culture as African Americans but speak spanish as well. When I first visited NYC, it was so different seeing "black folks" speak spanish VS mexicans that I see down here in Texas lol. Those African genes not only impacted individuals in the USA back during the slave trade, but stopped in the as well islands in route to the USA impacting our brothas and sisters there as well. History is quite interesting.

Barrie_Dude
Jan 8th, 2012, 12:35 PM
Then you might as well call all westerners Greeks. :tape:

Since we are talking about Spanish or Latinos, the widest you can stretch is those who speak Latin or Romance languages which would include French, Italian, Romanian cultures. But that's it.

The main point being that Latin does not take in Greek at all considering Latin is of the Italic branch and Greek the Hellenic branch of the Indo-European languages.We were asked about perspectives over here. :cuckoo:

Barrie_Dude
Jan 8th, 2012, 12:38 PM
Yeah its pretty interesting....I've even noticed many go by "brown" latino's (puerto ricans, dominicans, haitians) because they look EXACTLY like African Americans, just about share the same culture as African Americans but speak spanish as well. When I first visited NYC, it was so different seeing "black folks" speak spanish VS mexicans that I see down here in Texas lol. Those African genes not only impacted individuals in the USA back during the slave trade, but stopped in the as well islands in route to the USA impacting our brothas and sisters there as well. History is quite interesting.
I think that is true only for the blacks that trace their origins through the Carribrean as opposed to the african black. The Carribean is full of latin influence. But one can find distincly different cultures./

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 8th, 2012, 01:19 PM
I think that is true only for the blacks that trace their origins through the Carribrean as opposed to the african black. The Carribean is full of latin influence. But one can find distincly different cultures./

Yeah there is a lot of latin influence in the Carribean as well, but much African influence i think is what give the Carribean its true afro/latin culture in the Greater Antilles area (haiti, puerto rico, jaimaca, Domincan Republic). Afro Carribean music was influenced by West africans in that area. I stated the similarity in cultures with dominican/puerto ricans and black americans mostly because of what I saw in NYC. Many share the same "hip hop culture" as many African Americans do and as I mentioned earlier THEY LOOK LIKE BLACK PEOPLE lol. Matter of fact, hip hop was founded by African Americans and Puerto ricans in NY...anyway enough of the history lesson lol look it up :lol:

Calvin M.
Jan 8th, 2012, 02:04 PM
Ignorance :facepalm:

There is a difference between Latinos and Mediterranean :help:
So Flavia Pennetta, Monica Bellucci, Maria Callas are/were considered latinos as well? And please, Moyà not being considered white? :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://imagenesfotos.com/wp-content/2010/09/carlos_moya12.jpg

So basically if you have dark hair and got a tan (If Nadal, Moyà, etc. were not tennis players they wouldn't be so tanned) you are a Latino? Quite stupid thinking...

Hey, Spiceboy, I come in peace. (smile) I wasn't insulted that you thought my post was ignorant. I completely see your point. However...what I believe you misunderstood was that many of the American posters who responded were answering based on how things are in America. We didn't say we agree with the racial delineations; we simply replied accordingly based on the topic starter's question (please read the thread's title again).

I don't know if you've been to the U.S. but I'll be honest with you: if Nadal were in East Los Angeles and you put a bandana on him, Rafa would blend right in with the Chicano gangbangers. If he were NYC, he could be mistaken for Puerto Rican or Dominican. And if he was in rural areas, those Americans of Anglo-Saxon descent would immediately think Nadal was Latino. For Americans, he has very strong ethnic Latino features. I agree about Moya, though. He would pass for white here but once he said "my name is Carlos Moya", Americans would ask him "are you Hispanic?" haha I know the ignorance is frustrating for you and other non-Americans but we didn't make the rules. In the U.S., historically the Caucasians call the shots so much so, they could tell you what race you were even if you considered yourself something else. Yep, it's a f*cked up situation.

Fighterpova
Jan 8th, 2012, 02:13 PM
They consider Spanish people to be Hispanic, Spanish or Latino. I've never heard of Any Americans considering a Spanish person to be white.

:tape:

Calvin M.
Jan 8th, 2012, 02:14 PM
Most people here in Portugal identify themselves as white, even though clearly we're generally Latin or Mediterranean. Some have fair, pale skin but even the darker ones think they're white.

I know it's not a US perspective, but still relevant I think.

My lady is European and though she's lived in the U.S. for 16 years now she still can't understand the American race classifications. Like you, she grew up seeing people from Southern Europe and the Mediterranean as white; ditto for those of Middle Eastern descent. However, just like with Latinos, we don't consider, say, Iranian or Afghani as being white, Again, we didn't make the rules!

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 02:55 PM
So I'm Spanish. Got green eyes, I'm kinda pale in winter but as many Mediterranean people once the nice weather arrives by March/April I got easily tanned and by June/July I'm REALLY tanned. So am I a part time latino or what for you Americans? :spit:

Novichok
Jan 8th, 2012, 03:10 PM
So I'm Spanish. Got green eyes, I'm kinda pale in winter but as many Mediterranean people once the nice weather arrives by March/April I got easily tanned and by June/July I'm REALLY tanned. So am I a part time latino or what for you Americans? :spit:

We would need a picture in order to tell you. :tape: There are pale Hispanic people who are not considered white either. It depends on facial features too. :lol:

Stamp Paid
Jan 8th, 2012, 04:27 PM
So I'm Spanish. Got green eyes, I'm kinda pale in winter but as many Mediterranean people once the nice weather arrives by March/April I got easily tanned and by June/July I'm REALLY tanned. So am I a part time latino or what for you Americans? :spit:Do you have dark hair? Slanted eyes? A big nose? If so, probably. :lol: And its not "you" Americans, I dont subscribe to those beliefs. I have learned what I know from living in Florida for the past 3 years.

I dont understand why this is so incomprehensible for you, since most Hispanic people are of Spanish descent somewhere down the line. Many Mexicans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, etc. look identical to a Spaniard.

jjlove
Jan 8th, 2012, 04:45 PM
I'm Spanish and as white as one can be? According to some posters I would be consider latino then? As some are saying it depends on the features and skin color.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 8th, 2012, 04:51 PM
http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Christina-Aguilera-christina-aguilera-473297_1428_1900.jpg

White Latino

http://www.fotosofcelebrities.com/en/S/Salma_Hayek/158.jpg

Latino (obviously)

http://i2.listal.com/image/913091/600full-zoe-saldana.jpg

Brown Latino (but we claim her as ours though) :lol:

You have to remember...this IS America, all they see is color over here lol.

Brena
Jan 8th, 2012, 05:02 PM
Latin/a/o is race? :unsure::o

This.
Amerika ist wunderbar. :facepalm:

jjlove
Jan 8th, 2012, 05:05 PM
I really don't get the white latino thing.

delicatecutter
Jan 8th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Penelope Cruz is definitely considered Latina here even though she is Spanish.

Brena
Jan 8th, 2012, 05:16 PM
According to what I've gathered from this thread, if I lived in the US, I'd be considered black in July, August and September since my skin turns quite dark in the sun, and I'd be white for the rest of the year. I'd never be a Latina though, since I can't speak Spanish. Exciting!

delicatecutter
Jan 8th, 2012, 05:25 PM
:sobbing: at the people who don't get it.

Mynarco
Jan 8th, 2012, 05:31 PM
I always thought Zoe Saldana was black. In fact she is Latina? This is so confusing :sobbing:
So what are those people from other Caribbean Islands?

Stamp Paid
Jan 8th, 2012, 05:36 PM
I always thought Zoe Saldana was black. In fact she is Latina? This is so confusing :sobbing:
She is both :lol:

Novichok
Jan 8th, 2012, 06:00 PM
According to what I've gathered from this thread, if I lived in the US, I'd be considered black in July, August and September since my skin turns quite dark in the sun, and I'd be white for the rest of the year. I'd never be a Latina though, since I can't speak Spanish. Exciting!

OMG, just NO. It shouldn't be this confusing. :sobbing:

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 06:45 PM
We would need a picture in order to tell you. :tape: There are pale Hispanic people who are not considered white either. It depends on facial features too. :lol:

OK, so this is me in winter next to a Finnish girl and a French guy (right).

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/26823_413969348407_679038407_5294523_6575439_n.jpg

Of course I'm not milky white like the Finnish one but I don't see such a huge difference...like I'm normal white (or Mediterranean), like the Frenchie :p

This is spring with a certain Belgian, I'm a bit tanned, but nice weather is here so no big deal.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/225170_5626788407_679038407_249840_4846_n.jpg

End of spring, certainly more tanned, but that's how it works in this side of the world when you get a bit of sunshine.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/34404_478638498407_679038407_6974741_4448526_n.jpg

Summertime with a very latino hat (Colombian, actually) so you can bitch about how latino I look :p

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/168318_10150132031228408_679038407_8096189_3410060 _n.jpg

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 06:48 PM
And this is when I was young and lived in Sicily where virtually the whole year is summer :oh:

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/18938_252123033407_679038407_4481729_4532205_n.jpg

And BTW the girl is my best friend who is Spanish also and lives in the UK and came to Palermo to visit me :D

Stamp Paid
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:02 PM
Is it offensive to not be considered white?

delicatecutter
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:07 PM
Wow I didn't know you could get that tan. :sobbing:

Mynarco
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:10 PM
And this is when I was young and lived in Sicily where virtually the whole year is summer :oh:

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/18938_252123033407_679038407_4481729_4532205_n.jpg

And BTW the girl is my best friend who is Spanish also and lives in the UK and came to Palermo to visit me :D

Is this tan real :unsure::eek: OMG

delicatecutter
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:11 PM
spiceboy It's like you went from Spanish to Mexican before our very eyes. :hysteric:

Novichok
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:13 PM
And this is when I was young and lived in Sicily where virtually the whole year is summer :oh:

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/18938_252123033407_679038407_4481729_4532205_n.jpg

And BTW the girl is my best friend who is Spanish also and lives in the UK and came to Palermo to visit me :D

Wow. Nice tan. :bowdown:

I don't think most people would consider you white in this pic. :oh:

Novichok
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:14 PM
Is it offensive to not be considered white?

That's the same thing with some Louisiana Creoles. They want to get upset when I don't consider them black. :lol:

LeonHart
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:22 PM
Latin. Ricky Martin and Enrique are considered Latin and they're from Spain.

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:27 PM
Is it offensive to not be considered white?

What? Not offensive, is like if you tell me I look Asian, it is just not correct.

What I reckon from this thread is that the same term can mean different things depending the place you live in. For instance, here in Spain we have a huge latino community formed by immigrants who came to Spain in the last decade. They are latinos for us (of course, not negative connotations or anything), people coming form Ecuador, Peru.. So if you tell some Spanish person (here in Europe, at least) he/she is a latino he/she would be :confused: We call latinos somebody else. That's it.

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:29 PM
Latin. Ricky Martin and Enrique are considered Latin and they're from Spain.

FAIL :facepalm: Ricky Martin is Puerto Rican and Enrique Iglesias' mum comes from the Philippines. Get your facts straight.

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:31 PM
Is this tan real :unsure::eek: OMG

LOL this is what happens when you live in a place where (at least) 350 days of the year are sunny and +20ºC

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:37 PM
Wow. Nice tan. :bowdown:


Thanks. That's a bit too much even for me, but in fact I've never been that tanned since leaving Sicily :p

Just for the record, in this picture I sit next to a Polish girl who was as white as Casper the friendly ghost when she arrived. This is like a year later. So is she looking latina somehow? :facepalm:

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/18938_292160833407_679038407_4710984_1173962_n.jpg

LeRoy.
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:43 PM
why is it so important that people in the US consider you to be white and not latino ? is it insulting if someone thinks you look latino/ anything "less" than white ? :o :help:

People having meltdowns over something like this is :speakles:

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:55 PM
why is it so important that people in the US consider you to be white and not latino ? is it insulting if someone thinks you look latino/ anything "less" than white ? :o :help:

People having meltdowns over something like this is :speakles:

No, I'm just trying to explain something, but clearly you seem to be very comfortable with what you think and won't consider anything else. Fair enough. Are you black by any chance? Because it seems that the one having issues by being anything "less" than white is you :tape:

BTW, out of curiosity...how would you guys define Greek or Italian inmigration in NYC? Are they considered latinos also?

LeRoy.
Jan 8th, 2012, 07:59 PM
Neither white nor black nor asian. :speakles: I know hard to imagine that there are people out there who are neither of those three. :oh:

Apoleb
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:04 PM
Lots of Spanish people have a complexion that passes off as Latin American. It must be the Moorish influence. :oh:

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:05 PM
So are you latino? :hysteric:

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:07 PM
Lots of Spanish people have a complexion that passes off as Latin American. It must be the Moorish influence. :oh:

Well, it must be that Spain colonized Latin American some centuries ago. That would make sense :lol:

Stamp Paid
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:19 PM
No, I'm just trying to explain something, but clearly you seem to be very comfortable with what you think and won't consider anything else. Fair enough. Are you black by any chance? Because it seems that the one having issues by being anything "less" than white is you :tape:

BTW, out of curiosity...how would you guys define Greek or Italian inmigration in NYC? Are they considered latinos also?WTF would that have to do with anything? :confused:

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:24 PM
One thing I really don't understand the big difference people make from Latino/Hispanic/. I've always thought of it as different names such as black/african american/negro or caucasian/white

jjlove
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:29 PM
Well done, you edited just before I came to quote you.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:36 PM
I always thought Zoe Saldana was black. In fact she is Latina? This is so confusing :sobbing:
So what are those people from other Caribbean Islands?

I believe she is dominican. Just about every black person is mixed , our dominate gene is african giving us african features, full lips, course hair (for most of us) wider noses darker skin in some cases. I consider myself black but I have American Indian and white in my blood down the family tree. Same thing with latino's...thus making us and them come in different shades. (white/brown) or what not.

Nicolás89
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:36 PM
why is it so important that people in the US consider you to be white and not latino ? is it insulting if someone thinks you look latino/ anything "less" than white ? :o :help:

People having meltdowns over something like this is :speakles:

IKR :lol:

I would love people to consider me latino in the US or anywhere I go, I just don't come across as your typical flavoured latino. :sobbing:

Helen Lawson
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:40 PM
Remember the ill-conceived TV series for Valley of the Dolls where that whack Sally Kirkland was playing me and Neely O'Hara was a spicy Latina? And Anne Welles was black. They didn't have black people in Lawrenceville and how can someone named Neely O'Hara be a Latina?

LeonHart
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:45 PM
FAIL :facepalm: Ricky Martin is Puerto Rican and Enrique Iglesias' mum comes from the Philippines. Get your facts straight.

Well anyways Enqrique Iglesias is considered Latin and he's not from South America :p

Most Americans see you speaking Spanish and will assume you're Latin. It's just the sad truth.

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:45 PM
WTF would that have to do with anything? :confused:

After 10 years in this forum I have noticed that black people are the most sensitive and suspicious when the race topic is arisen.

He implied with his question that I felt insulted or something by being called other than white :confused: Believe me, you can call me black or asian, I don't mind at all. I just try to explain you why Spanish people would not be called Latinos in Europe. Just this.

Other than that I would like to know how Americans classify Italian and Greek inmigrants in the US as I believe that ethnically, Spanish people would fit in there.

spiceboy
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:53 PM
As you said (before editing your last post :p) maybe the thing is that "latino" mean different in the US and Spain.

LeonHart
Jan 8th, 2012, 08:59 PM
As you said (before editing your last post :p) maybe the thing is that "latino" mean different in the US and Spain.

Yeah see I just looked it up and Enrique performed at the Latin grammys. And to my knowledge he has always been considered Latin by the mainstream media.

Stamp Paid
Jan 8th, 2012, 09:09 PM
After 10 years in this forum I have noticed that black people are the most sensitive and suspicious when the race topic is arisen.

He implied with his question that I felt insulted or something by being called other than white :confused: Believe me, you can call me black or asian, I don't mind at all. I just try to explain you why Spanish people would not be called Latinos in Europe. Just this.

Other than that I would like to know how Americans classify Italian and Greek inmigrants in the US as I believe that ethnically, Spanish people would fit in there.Well several people in this thread have remarked about sensitive you have been. You have called posters ignorant, etc. All we have done was answer the question honestly, but you have had the weirdest reaction out of anyone to the possibility that you may be considered something other than white in the US. :lol: And FYI, its not very smart to project your interactions with people on an anonymous message board to an entire race of people.

But seriously, its been said a million times. Your race in America depends on how you look. In the US, whiteness is associated with Anglo/Nordic features, because most white Americans are Irish, English and German. For most of America's history, Greeks/Italians/other darker skinned Europeans were not considered white, they were considered European "ethnics" and immigration was limited for most of them. It was not until recently (last 50 years or so) that Jews, Greeks and Italians began to be considered "white". You have to realize that in the US we have a lot of Hispanic people and very few Spaniards, so people tend to make associations with things they are most familiar with. If you are olive skinned, have dark, wavy hair and speak Spanish, they will assume you are from Latin America before they assume that you are even European, much less from Spain. Particularly in places where Hispanic immigration is a major issue, like the Southwest, Southern California, or the South.

Nicolás89
Jan 8th, 2012, 09:23 PM
As you said (before editing your last post :p) maybe the thing is that "latino" mean different in the US and Spain.

Lol for everyone that was clear from the beginning. :lol:

ToopsTame
Jan 9th, 2012, 01:42 AM
Stop freaking out Spanish people. I know you have very specific definitions for Latino, we're just telling you the definitions used by many people in the US. We're not defending those people's definitions, just informing you of them.

Like LeBonVivant said, the term White has expanded a lot over the years. White used to only include WASPs and Northern Europeans in the US. Eastern Europeans/Slavs, Italians/Spanish/Greeks/North Africans, Latinos of any skin color, Jews and even the Irish were not considered White, despite how light their skin was. Slowly this definition became much more literally about skin colour and included Eastern Europeans, Jews and some light skinned Mediterranean people as White. It's true that some of you people might get taken for White or Latino by many people depending on how tanned your skin is.
Here is an old sign:
http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/no_irish_no_blacks_no_dogs.jpg

Other countries have strange definitions of White as well. Italians, Greeks and Lebanese were not considered White in Australia for a very long time, I don't know what they thought of people from Spain and southern France.

Szavay #1
Jan 9th, 2012, 02:04 AM
my irish gf's bf came over from ireland for xmas. my irish gf is very fair, freckles, reddish brown hair. i've met her fam and they all look like that as well. so when her bf arrived from shannon, i was surprised that he had jet black hair (not dyed) and was closer to olive in skin tone (like spiceboy). anywho, i still thought of him as white but after a few pints my gf was joking that her bf was "black irish". she explained that w/ irish ppl who look like her bf the irish make jokes about the spanish armada and spaniards having one night stands w/ the irish girls. just felt like sharing. ;) i don't really have an opinion on this topic b/c it's not anything i obsess over. that doesn't mean i don't respect ppl's ethnicity but it is totally up to you how you wanna identify yourself.

oh, i saw that pic of christina aguilera and it made me think of a couple others who have latin last names but are white:

joanna garcia
http://img.poptower.com/pic-4240/joanna-garcia.jpg

kiely sanchez
http://www.baybul.com/resimler/Resim-040309-1024/118-KieleSanchez_DeGuire_11616921.jpg

Calvin M.
Jan 9th, 2012, 03:18 AM
Spiceboy, I hope LBV's excellent breakdown of racial delineations in America helped you understand the post of those of us from the U.S.

BTW, out of curiosity...how would you guys define Greek or Italian inmigration in NYC? Are they considered latinos also?

I've lived in NYC for 24 yrs. In my experience, Greeks and Italians have always been classified here as white. Now, I have to point out that some Italians look Latino (e.g. Pauly G from "Jersey Shore"). Just throwing that out there because somebody from the NY/NJ/CT area might point that out.

And speaking of Greeks, in your Sicilian photo, you look like you could be Mark Phillipousis (sp?)' brother. Who knows, maybe you've told that before.

Calvin M.
Jan 9th, 2012, 03:35 AM
After 10 years in this forum I have noticed that black people are the most sensitive and suspicious when the race topic is arisen.

He implied with his question that I felt insulted or something by being called other than white :confused: Believe me, you can call me black or asian, I don't mind at all. I just try to explain you why Spanish people would not be called Latinos in Europe. Just this.

Thanks for being direct. As a black person, I don't have any problems with your comment (that has been your experience on this board and I can't take that away from you). That being said, Spiceboy, I don't know if you can grasp this reality about the U.S. but there are lot of people in this country who are NOT white but wish that they were. There are a lot of people who are white (but technically are NOT considered white) who wish that they were a "valid" white person. This is why you got those replies (the ones asking you about Latino shame) that clearly agitated you. To me, you're white as is Nadal, Ferrero, Robredo, etc. But...when you come over here, you're going to hear a different story.

On a related note, here's Antonio Banderas at the ALMA's (American Latino Media Awards). I don't know how he feels about the whole Latino thing but he's been playing the role since he settled in Hollywood.

VI7MPtvoUiM

LPxVR3wohdI

Sam L
Jan 9th, 2012, 07:17 AM
We were asked about perspectives over here. :cuckoo:

That still doesn't make it right. Now, if you had said this...

For most of America's history, Greeks/Italians/other darker skinned Europeans were not considered white, they were considered European "ethnics" and immigration was limited for most of them. It was not until recently (last 50 years or so) that Jews, Greeks and Italians began to be considered "white".

I would've been fine and that's a great explanation by Le Bon Vivant. But I've never heard anyone except you say "Latin" is a term that takes in Greeks as well because it's simply wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America

Beat
Jan 9th, 2012, 09:52 AM
why is it so important that people in the US consider you to be white and not latino ? is it insulting if someone thinks you look latino/ anything "less" than white ? :o :help:

People having meltdowns over something like this is :speakles:

spiceboy explained very well that it was not a matter of being offended, but just plain wrong. didn't you read that post?

but obviously, wikipedia confirms the impression you get by reading this thread: america sees it differently than the rest of the world:

"In the United States, the term is in official use in the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino, defined as "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino_%28demonym%29

Brena
Jan 9th, 2012, 10:33 AM
My only objection was that ''latino/a'' is most definitely not a race. It denotes people of Latin american origin who can be of different races. Spanish or Italian or Greek or Slavic are not races either. Their being darker than the Europeans of Germanic or Celtic origin doesn't make them non-white. People from some parts of sub-Saharan Africa are lighter skinned than people from some other parts of the same continent, and yet it doesn't mean they are non-black or some separate race. Even within Italy, for example, you have blond and blue-eyed people in the north and Schiavone-looking types towards the south. I even met an Italian woman from Naples who was pale-skinned and fair-haired but had African hair and features. I asked her if she had any African ancestors and she said she didn't know for sure but was pretty certain she did since everyone in her family had this hair and Naples being a port town, it was highly likely. So, some Italians are obviously white, some are mixed-race as this lady, and there is even the odd black one like Mario Balotelli :lol: but ''Italian'' or ''latino'' is not their race, no.

However, I think this thread is doing a great job in promoting the lack of racial awareness - it's all so confusing that I don't even know what race I am anymore, let alone what race anyone else might be. :hi5:

Ellen Dawson
Jan 9th, 2012, 02:57 PM
Ay Dios Mio! :tape:

Sorry y'all I couldn't resist. :p

P.S. Zoe Saldana is black as is Rosario Dawson as is Tatyana Ali as is Gina Torres as is Melissa De Sousa (HL, she's the one you were talking about). If they prefer Latina that's on them and their business but IMO they're still Negroids.

Anyway, it's not that serious, y'all. At the end of the day, there's only one race. The human race. :hearts: :hug: :inlove: :kiss: :aparty:

ToopsTame
Jan 9th, 2012, 03:48 PM
My only objection was that ''latino/a'' is most definitely not a race. It denotes people of Latin american origin who can be of different races. Spanish or Italian or Greek or Slavic are not races either. Their being darker than the Europeans of Germanic or Celtic origin doesn't make them non-white. People from some parts of sub-Saharan Africa are lighter skinned than people from some other parts of the same continent, and yet it doesn't mean they are non-black or some separate race. Even within Italy, for example, you have blond and blue-eyed people in the north and Schiavone-looking types towards the south. I even met an Italian woman from Naples who was pale-skinned and fair-haired but had African hair and features. I asked her if she had any African ancestors and she said she didn't know for sure but was pretty certain she did since everyone in her family had this hair and Naples being a port town, it was highly likely. So, some Italians are obviously white, some are mixed-race as this lady, and there is even the odd black one like Mario Balotelli :lol: but ''Italian'' or ''latino'' is not their race, no.


Actually, races are made up things and so classified differently depending on the country you're in. One system breaks down Africans into 3 or more races, Eurasians into one race and East Asians and native Americans into another race. Another system only has three races. It's all made up and doesn't pass scientific tests. The names of races keep getting adjusted all the time depending where you are. The US groups all East Asians together. The British system groups Irish separately from British.

jjlove
Jan 9th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Actually, races are made up things and so classified differently depending on the country you're in. One system breaks down Africans into 3 or more races, Eurasians into one race and East Asians and native Americans into another race. Another system only has three races. It's all made up and doesn't pass scientific tests. The names of races keep getting adjusted all the time depending where you are. The US groups all East Asians together. The British system groups Irish separately from British.

Are you seriously telling that in GB British and Irish are two ethnic groups? :weirdo:

Stamp Paid
Jan 9th, 2012, 04:11 PM
Are you seriously telling that in GB British and Irish are two ethnic groups? :weirdo:The Spanish and Basque are two different ethnic groups, aren't they? :lol:

jjlove
Jan 9th, 2012, 04:21 PM
no, they aren't. Where did you read that?

Stamp Paid
Jan 9th, 2012, 04:40 PM
no, they aren't. Where did you read that?As with their language, the Basques are clearly a distinct ethnic group in their region. They notably regard themselves as culturally and especially linguistically distinct from their surrounding neighbours. Some Basques, especially in Spain, are strongly nationalist, identifying far more firmly as Basques than as citizens of any existing state. Others are not, feeling as much Basque as Spanish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_people#Classification

oliverbecken
Jan 9th, 2012, 04:52 PM
I kinda understand about white/black hispanics. I'm living in Ireland at the moment and the majority of irish people put spanish in two different groups. The "white" ones are named mediterranean as italian (south italian preferably), french and greek ones. The "dark" spanish people may stand as latino people together with brazilian, chilean, peruvian, etc ;)

It might be difficult to understand for a spaniard, as spanish people can differentiate between "dark" spanish and most of latin (south-american and caribbean people). It can only be hard to differentiate between pale chilean/argentinian/uruguay people than spanish, other than that is pretty easy for spaniards.

The only way to understand it, it's doing it the way around. I assume that many spanish people (especially in rural areas) can't tell if someone is from Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Australia or USA, they ALL are known as "guiris" and in South America as "gringos". Same happen to me at the amazonic area in Perú (Iquitos), when myself and two friends were called gringos most of the time by the locals, and I'm not even consider a pale one in Spain :spit:

jjlove
Jan 9th, 2012, 05:01 PM
In my opinion they only have a different language but apparently is all that matters in order to count as an ethnic group (since Spanish and people from Central and South America seem to share the same ethnic group to some). Where do Brasilians fit? Why would a Norwergian fit as white if their language, culture and religion are totally different from an American for instance? I guess there is something I'm missing or maybe we are refering to ethnic groups when we want to speak about races :shrug:

Novichok
Jan 9th, 2012, 05:12 PM
Some ethnic groups fall within the same racial groups.

Ellen Dawson
Jan 9th, 2012, 05:16 PM
Compliments of the US Census:

How Should Hispanics or Latinos Answer the Race Question?

People of Hispanic origin may be of any race and should answer the question on race by marking one or more race categories shown on the questionnaire, including White, Black or African American, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, and Some Other Race. Hispanics are asked to indicate their origin in the question on Hispanic origin, not in the question on race, because in the federal statistical system ethnic origin is considered to be a separate concept from race.

Now...can we all just get along? :p;):wavey:

http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/race/racefactcb.html

Stamp Paid
Jan 9th, 2012, 08:13 PM
In my opinion they only have a different language but apparently is all that matters in order to count as an ethnic group (since Spanish and people from Central and South America seem to share the same ethnic group to some). Where do Brasilians fit? Why would a Norwergian fit as white if their language, culture and religion are totally different from an American for instance? I guess there is something I'm missing or maybe we are refering to ethnic groups when we want to speak about races :shrug:I think you are confusing about a bunch of different things in this post, ethnicity, race and nationality. :lol: In the case of Basque people, it appears that they have a different language and different culture than Spanish people, this makes them a separate ethnic group. Just like Irish people have a different culture (and sometimes, language as well), that makes them ethnically distinct from English people.

Race and ethnicity are two separate things.

jjlove
Jan 9th, 2012, 09:11 PM
I understand it perfectly, thanks. I was trying to point out the incoherence of what some posted (either if they think is like that or just say how it is in the States). If things like language and culture determine an ethnic group 'latino' cannot agglutinate central and south america + Spain because the only common thing is the language (and if you include brasilians not even language)

ToopsTame
Jan 9th, 2012, 09:53 PM
Are you seriously telling that in GB British and Irish are two ethnic groups? :weirdo:

Yes. Look.
http://i43.tinypic.com/f42reo.png

propi
Jan 9th, 2012, 10:03 PM
I think you are confusing about a bunch of different things in this post, ethnicity, race and nationality. :lol: In the case of Basque people, it appears that they have a different language and different culture than Spanish people, this makes them a separate ethnic group. Just like Irish people have a different culture (and sometimes, language as well), that makes them ethnically distinct from English people.

Race and ethnicity are two separate things.
But then you may have a problem, I am from a region of Spain called Aragon, and our culture, etc. is far from what you consider Spanish, does it mean we are another ethnic group, because then basically Spain is just Andalucia, as every region has its own very different culture and even language in some cases :p

Kim's_fan_4ever
Jan 9th, 2012, 10:18 PM
But then you may have a problem, I am from a region of Spain called Aragon, and our culture, etc. is far from what you consider Spanish, does it mean we are another ethnic group, because then basically Spain is just Andalucia, as every region has its own very different culture and even language in some cases :p

Yeah, like Catalonia has its very own language :shrug:

ToopsTame
Jan 9th, 2012, 10:30 PM
Yeah, like Catalonia has its very own language :shrug:

That's what we're talking about. The definition of ethnic group changes depending on where you are. Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks all speak the same language but today they classify themselves as different ethnic groups. French from the North of France and the South of France might categorize themselves as the same ethnic group today even though their ancestors spoke different languages. You would know the definition that works in Spain as you are from there. It is not upon us to impose our definition on you.

Kim's_fan_4ever
Jan 9th, 2012, 10:39 PM
That's what we're talking about. The definition of ethnic group changes depending on where you are. Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks all speak the same language but today they classify themselves as different ethnic groups. French from the North of France and the South of France might categorize themselves as the same ethnic group today even though their ancestors spoke different languages. You would know the definition that works in Spain as you are from there. It is not upon us to impose our definition on you.

I am not from Spain, I just currently live here - Barcelona to be exact. And what I've noticed is that people from here, they don't say they're Spanish, they say they're Catalan. Also you can here Catalan much more often than Spanish and I've even come accross this attitute: you're in Catolonia, I will talk Catalan to you :o They also have a bit different culture than the rest of Spain. So if it we used the "definition" LBV posted above then Catalan people are also a different ethnic group :shrug:

Calvin M.
Jan 12th, 2012, 12:43 AM
Sorry to dredge this up. It was on the 2nd page so I take it that you guys have moved on. Just wanted to reply to two posts.

spiceboy explained very well that it was not a matter of being offended, but just plain wrong. didn't you read that post?

That's where the disagreement started: Spiceboy didn't realize that we were just answering this succinctly-worded question:

What do they consider Spanish people in the United States? White or Latin?

I understand it perfectly, thanks. I was trying to point out the incoherence of what some posted (either if they think is like that or just say how it is in the States).

No offense but what incoherence? The topic question was clear as were the answers. Expounding on it and the emotions that arose from the exchange is a different story.

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 12:54 AM
I understand it perfectly, thanks. I was trying to point out the incoherence of what some posted (either if they think is like that or just say how it is in the States). If things like language and culture determine an ethnic group 'latino' cannot agglutinate central and south america + Spain because the only common thing is the language (and if you include brasilians not even language)Of course, you are exactly right. And this is why 'Hispanic/Latino' is such a problematic category. :lol:

But then you may have a problem, I am from a region of Spain called Aragon, and our culture, etc. is far from what you consider Spanish, does it mean we are another ethnic group, because then basically Spain is just Andalucia, as every region has its own very different culture and even language in some cases :p

I am not from Spain, I just currently live here - Barcelona to be exact. And what I've noticed is that people from here, they don't say they're Spanish, they say they're Catalan. Also you can here Catalan much more often than Spanish and I've even come accross this attitute: you're in Catolonia, I will talk Catalan to you :o They also have a bit different culture than the rest of Spain. So if it we used the "definition" LBV posted above then Catalan people are also a different ethnic group :shrug:It also depends on how the people define themselves; there is a measure of self-determination in ethnicity, because it is not a natural category (just like race is not a natural category). If the Catalan/Aragon people consider themselves to be a separate ethnic group, then they are. :shrug: The situation of Catalonian people sounds similar to Welsh people in Britain.

Helen Lawson
Jan 12th, 2012, 01:44 AM
Being from Florida, no one seems to want to or have the need to classify them as white or black. I don't think non-Hispanic "white" people really care about classifying them in any way, but you should never mix up their heritage, referring to someone as Mexican or Puerto Rican or something when they're Cuban or Spanish is like worse than using the N word. There is a distinct social status structure within the Hispanic community (at least in the US) based on their heritage and it's a very touchy subject with them. Spanish and Cubans being at the top, Puerto Ricans and Mexicans being at the bottom. Not sure about how South Americans factor into that. That might be a more interesting topic, I really don't think anyone really classifies them as black or white, I don't think that's a real issue.

duhcity
Jan 12th, 2012, 01:54 AM
First of all, I don't know about the rest of country but it seems to me that it's only on the East Coast where people with roots in Spanish-speaking countries are called "Spanish". In NYC they even say "spanish food" when the meal is actually Puerto Rican, Dominican or Cuban or "spanish music" when it's salsa or merengue.

In my experience, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Cubans, Mexicans and anyone else who is spanish speaking but not from Spain, are Latino/Hispanic. After that, based on their looks, they're either white (Jennifer Lopez, Ricky Martin) or black (Zoe Saldana, Sammy Sosa).



I believe her reply to you was a joke. Her answer to your question "What do they consider..." was "in desperate need of English lessons." She wasn't referring to you (that's my take).



Nadal definitely. He, Conchita Martinez, Antonio Banderas, Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz look Latino (American definition).


Just got to say, I have the complete opposite experience in New York. In fact, almost all my hispanic friends refer to themselves as Colombians, Cubans, Ecuadorian, Mexican, Dominicans (oy the Doms), etc. There is a larger non-Mexican hispanic population and such segregated communities, which may have resulted in the pride of each individual country. When I say Spanish food, it usually entails tapas and paella. Mexican means burritos and tacos etc.etc.

And I've heard someone say some of them look part Native American :shrug: we're a really mixed country

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:09 AM
Being from Florida, no one seems to want to or have the need to classify them as white or black. I don't think non-Hispanic "white" people really care about classifying them in any way, but you should never mix up their heritage, referring to someone as Mexican or Puerto Rican or something when they're Cuban or Spanish is like worse than using the N word. There is a distinct social status structure within the Hispanic community (at least in the US) based on their heritage and it's a very touchy subject with them. Spanish and Cubans being at the top, Puerto Ricans and Mexicans being at the bottom. Not sure about how South Americans factor into that. That might be a more interesting topic, I really don't think anyone really classifies them as black or white, I don't think that's a real issue.I don't think thats true. I know this because I live in Florida as well, and have assisted in research done in clinics and emergency rooms. Triage nurses usually classify the race of incoming patients based on how they look. Dominicans often get labelled as "black" automatically, just because of their features. A lot of Cuban people (the ones who look more "white" than "Hispanic") get classified as white unless they have a Spanish surname, but if a Cuban woman is married to an Anglo, she will be classified as white. Unless you look like the stereotypical, middle-range brown skinned/wavy haired Latino, most people (white people in particular, who may not be as nuanced with the phenotypic distinctions) will try to fit the person into a box of either black or white. For example, somebody in this thread thought that Zoe Saldana was just black, they had no idea she was Hispanic as well. :lol:

Calvin M.
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:10 AM
Just got to say, I have the complete opposite experience in New York. In fact, almost all my hispanic friends refer to themselves as Colombians, Cubans, Ecuadorian, Mexican, Dominicans (oy the Doms), etc. There is a larger non-Mexican hispanic population and such segregated communities, which may have resulted in the pride of each individual country. When I say Spanish food, it usually entails tapas and paella. Mexican means burritos and tacos etc.etc.

And I've heard someone say some of them look part Native American :shrug: we're a really mixed country

When I say Spanish anything, I'm referring to Espana and ONLY Espana. I don't know why both Latino and Non-Latinos in NYC use "Spanish" as an adjective when what they're referring to has nothing to do with Spain.

I'm quite familiar with the Hispanic nationalities that populate NYC, especially Queens. Yep, they all claim their country of origin. On the whole, they (Columbians, Ecuadorians) are smaller communities so they're not going to refer themselves as "Spanish" but a Puerto-Rican, particularly those born and raised here, they'll say "Spanish" e.g. "did you guys see a Spanish lady go in?" Ditto for the local white people; it's not unusual to hear them say "spanish girl", "spanish food". Years ago, when I first moved here, I even asked "what part of Spain are you from?" and they explained when they say "spanish" they mean Hispanic. Yep, Mexicans, in particular, look Native American. Being from California, I've made that mistake.

Nicolás89
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:15 AM
Just got to say, I have the complete opposite experience in New York. In fact, almost all my hispanic friends refer to themselves as Colombians, Cubans, Ecuadorian, Mexican, Dominicans (oy the Doms), etc.

Exactly.

Helen Lawson
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:30 AM
I don't think thats true. I know this because I live in Florida as well, and have assisted in research done in clinics and emergency rooms. Triage nurses usually classify the race of incoming patients based on how they look. Dominicans often get labelled as "black" automatically, just because of their features. A lot of Cuban people (the ones who look more "white" than "Hispanic") get classified as white unless they have a Spanish surname, but if a Cuban woman is married to an Anglo, she will be classified as white. Unless you look like the stereotypical, middle-range brown skinned/wavy haired Latino, most people (white people in particular, who may not be as nuanced with the phenotypic distinctions) will try to fit the person into a box of either black or white. For example, somebody in this thread thought that Zoe Saldana was just black, they had no idea she was Hispanic as well. :lol:

Wow, news to me. Isn't there an "Hispanic" box to mark for incoming patients?

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Wow, news to me. Isn't there an "Hispanic" box to mark for incoming patients?Yeah, but again, it depends on how close to "white" or "black" you look. (It may be different if you are from South Florida, I live in Central Florida) But if these three men show up in the hospital
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbwawu0Vqy1qeuk5lo1_400.jpg
the only one that will be seen as Hispanic is the one on the far right. When all three of them are Hispanic.

Helen Lawson
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:42 AM
Yeah, but again, it depends on how close to "white" or "black" you look. (It may be different if you are from South Florida, I live in Central Florida) But if these three men show up in the hospital
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbwawu0Vqy1qeuk5lo1_400.jpg
the only one that will be seen as Hispanic is the one on the far right. When all three of them are Hispanic.

I see your point. The only Hispanics I know are light Cuban. Well, simply "Cuban" to them.

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:50 AM
I see your point. The only Hispanics I know are light Cuban. Well, simply "Cuban" to them.Do me a favor Helen. I'm curious, ask them when they fill out their census forms, do they check off "White" or "Hispanic/Latino". :lol:

mykarma
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:52 AM
Yeah, but again, it depends on how close to "white" or "black" you look. (It may be different if you are from South Florida, I live in Central Florida) But if these three men show up in the hospital
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbwawu0Vqy1qeuk5lo1_400.jpg
the only one that will be seen as Hispanic is the one on the far right. When all three of them are Hispanic.
OMG:inlove:

Novichok
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:53 AM
blah blah blah
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbwawu0Vqy1qeuk5lo1_400.jpg
blah blah blah

:lick::drool::hearts:

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:53 AM
OMG:inlove:Okay!!!! :lol:

Helen Lawson
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:54 AM
Do me a favor Helen. I'm curious, ask them when they fill out their census forms, do they check off "White" or "Hispanic/Latino". :lol:

We've talked about that. It's "white" and that's for college and graduate school applications, too, not just the census. They were proud they weren't admitted "for diversity" but on "the merits." I don't know if that's just a south Florida Cuban thing or what. I used to live in Central Florida, Puerto Ricans didn't seem at all touchy about the race thing.

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 02:56 AM
:lick::drool::hearts:http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvuvgkmvBp1qaropco1_250.gif
:lol:

delicatecutter
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:01 AM
When I was in high school (which was like a century ago), there was no category for mixed race so I picked white. Everybody laughed at me. So there you go. I also liked to pick Pacific Islander. It's a bad feeling you don't fit in. Finally there was the "Other" option.

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:04 AM
We've talked about that. It's "white" and that's for college and graduate school applications, too, not just the census. They were proud they weren't admitted "for diversity" but on "the merits." I don't know if that's just a south Florida Cuban thing or what. I used to live in Central Florida, Puerto Ricans didn't seem at all touchy about the race thing.I think its a Cuban thing. It goes back to the politics around the Cuban Revolution. Most of the people that fled Cuba after Castro came to power were middle/upper middle class, not many poor or Afro-Cubans were able to migrate. They came to Florida with the blessing of our government, used their money to start businesses and communities, and began to align themselves around conservative politicians who were pro-capitalist. This gave them a sort of "honorary" whiteness. They have a migration history thats far different from every other Caribbean immigrants, so many of them do consider themselves to be white.

Novichok
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:06 AM
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvuvgkmvBp1qaropco1_250.gif
:lol:

You know I wasn't gonna read that when you provided those mens.

When I was in high school (which was like a century ago), there was no category for mixed race so I picked white. Everybody laughed at me. So there you go. I also liked to pick Pacific Islander. It's a bad feeling you don't fit in. Finally there was the "Other" option.

Ki Ki. :rolls:

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:06 AM
When I was in high school (which was like a century ago), there was no category for mixed race so I picked white. Everybody laughed at me. So there you go. I also liked to pick Pacific Islander. It's a bad feeling you don't fit in. Finally there was the "Other" option.Why not just pick Black, since you look black?

delicatecutter
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:18 AM
Why not just pick Black, since you look black?

Cause I'm just as white as I am black and have never identified with being black.

Calvin M.
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:26 AM
When I was in high school (which was like a century ago), there was no category for mixed race so I picked white. Everybody laughed at me. So there you go. I also liked to pick Pacific Islander. It's a bad feeling you don't fit in. Finally there was the "Other" option.

Yep, this is a common injustice for the bi- tri- and multi-racial when they're forced to classify their race. You make your choice, get ridiculed for it and then told you're not what you chose. While I'm not mixed race myself, I've known a lot of people who've experienced this frustration over the years.

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:26 AM
Cause I'm just as white as I am black and have never identified with being black.Yet you did identify with being white? Even when the children ridiculed the mere suggestion that you may be white?

I wonder if they would have laughed if you picked black.

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:29 AM
Yay found a relevant video. lol
tT7_oQzDYMw

Novichok
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:29 AM
Cause I'm just as white as I am black and have never identified with being black.

Why not? Just curious.

Calvin M.
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:29 AM
Cause I'm just as white as I am black and have never identified with being black.

I'm taking this to mean that while you know you're half black, you don't identify with the experience of other black people, American or otherwise. Did I get that right?

delicatecutter
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:31 AM
Yet you did identify with being white? Even when the children ridiculed the mere suggestion that you may be white?

I wonder if they would have laughed if you picked black.

This was in high school and no they wouldn't have laughed if I had picked black, obviously. Race issues are complicated, especially when you are of mixed-race. Elementary school would have been when my classmates didn't believe my grandmother was related to me. Fun times.

And I obviously don't identify as being white as I've never been seen as or treated like a white man in society. I identify as being what I am, which is bi-racial.

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:36 AM
And I obviously don't identify as being white as I've never been seen as or treated like a white man in society. I identify as being what I am, which is bi-racial.Thats beautiful.

Calvin M.
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:42 AM
Yay found a relevant video. lol
tT7_oQzDYMw

Very good, thanks. Nice to hear Alonso and Torres admit to what I thought all along: they just don't get offered Latino roles.

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 03:49 AM
and Milian is flawless.

delicatecutter
Jan 12th, 2012, 04:01 AM
Thats beautiful.

I don't think that you think it is. :unsure:

Stamp Paid
Jan 12th, 2012, 04:06 AM
I don't think that you think it is. :unsure:What makes you think that? :lol:

delicatecutter
Jan 12th, 2012, 04:14 AM
Why not? Just curious.

I'm taking this to mean that while you know you're half black, you don't identify with the experience of other black people, American or otherwise. Did I get that right?

I have a notoriously horrible memory but when I was younger I was around a lot of black people. But we moved when I was 9 to a predominately white area. And I grew up with a white mother and extended family. I have never been close to my father. I just never was around any aura of black culture. I definitely don't sound "black" not to get into any sterotypes, but it is what it is.

It is very hard to be bi-racial. Both my sisters would agree.

ToopsTame
Jan 12th, 2012, 05:17 AM
Yay found a relevant video. lol
tT7_oQzDYMw

Great video. Side question, I wonder if it's even harder to be Black and Asian. In my experience other people always just assume they're Black with no other alternatives.

VeeJJ
Jan 12th, 2012, 06:21 AM
White

Mina Vagante
Jan 12th, 2012, 01:44 PM
Great video. Side question, I wonder if it's even harder to be Black and Asian. In my experience other people always just assume they're Black with no other alternatives.

I'm Black and Asian, and whilst I don't look extremely Asian most people can tell there is an Asian influence in my DNA :lol:

Calvin M.
Jan 12th, 2012, 01:48 PM
I have a notoriously horrible memory but when I was younger I was around a lot of black people. But we moved when I was 9 to a predominately white area. And I grew up with a white mother and extended family. I have never been close to my father. I just never was around any aura of black culture. I definitely don't sound "black" not to get into any sterotypes, but it is what it is.

It is very hard to be bi-racial. Both my sisters would agree.

Thanks for elaborating. IMHO, it probably wouldn't have been as exasperating for you and your sisters if, like Obama, you had grown up in a multi-cultural environment. And I've seen your experience with other bi-racial people (half Asian, half Latino, half Indian). If it's any consolation re: the black community, there are African-Americans who grew up only around other blacks that feel the same disconnect.

Szavay #1
Jan 13th, 2012, 07:22 PM
watched the yt and what i don't get is the drama about black and hispanic. there are black ppl whose native language is spanish. i don't get the big deal. it's like saying white ppl can only speak english or asians should only know cantonese. just wish ppl could move past it but some can't. :shrug:

Calvin M.
Jan 13th, 2012, 11:11 PM
watched the yt and what i don't get is the drama about black and hispanic. there are black ppl whose native language is spanish. i don't get the big deal. it's like saying white ppl can only speak english or asians should only know cantonese. just wish ppl could move past it but some can't. :shrug:

What Alonso, MIlian and Torres were saying is that they identify with their Latin roots but Hollywood won't cast them in Hispanic roles. As a result, they audition primarily for African-American parts.

Ellen Dawson
Jan 14th, 2012, 09:34 AM
and Milian is flawless.

Well, i know you're not talking about her singing and acting. :p At that height (barely over 5'), Christina needs to keep her weight low (at least a Size 0) but she can look chunky at times. And I hope she doesn't use the lame excuse "men like thick girls". :rolleyes: "Thick" is a cover-up for overweight. Just sayin'. :wavey:

TheHangover
Jan 14th, 2012, 11:14 AM
in italy and i think in spain too people have various colors of skin from north to south, so you can't generalize.
one thing that is sure is that we are HOT :drool:

duhcity
Jan 14th, 2012, 11:45 AM
We've talked about that. It's "white" and that's for college and graduate school applications, too, not just the census. They were proud they weren't admitted "for diversity" but on "the merits." I don't know if that's just a south Florida Cuban thing or what. I used to live in Central Florida, Puerto Ricans didn't seem at all touchy about the race thing.

More NY perspective: coming from a strongly competitive academic high school where every student goes to a 4 year college, you checked whatever the hell got you anywhere no matter what you looked. I'd say my generation, especially those born in the United States, are more easily disposed to letting go of ethnic heritage.

I had one friend who's father was a respected bi-racial professor from Zimbabwe with an Indian Mother - he was African American for college. I chose not to disclose my race (I'm Asian). Your parents were in the military and you were born off-base in Asia, you declared yourself first generation. Whatever three week span you spent in the Middle East as a child gave you dual citizenship and allowed you to identify with a more "worldly" culture.

Mynarco
Jan 14th, 2012, 12:01 PM
Yay found a relevant video. lol
tT7_oQzDYMw

:eek: interesting vid.

young_gunner913
Jan 14th, 2012, 12:08 PM
I have a notoriously horrible memory but when I was younger I was around a lot of black people. But we moved when I was 9 to a predominately white area. And I grew up with a white mother and extended family. I have never been close to my father. I just never was around any aura of black culture. I definitely don't sound "black" not to get into any sterotypes, but it is what it is.

It is very hard to be bi-racial. Both my sisters would agree.

Yes it is. :o

Barrie_Dude
Jan 15th, 2012, 12:30 AM
in italy and i think in spain too people have various colors of skin from north to south, so you can't generalize.
one thing that is sure is that we are HOT :drool:
I have always had a thung for Latin/Hispanic girls. As well as the cooking and the culture, though, I do find the Cathiloc thing a bit much. Being of an Irish Protestant backrounf, there are some lingering resentments for the Cathiloc Church that is not reasonable in a lot of ways. This conflicts with a grat many Cathilocs and Priests that I happen to like and respect. So I am a walking meat bag of contradictions