PDA

View Full Version : Why Kate's Bush is so much better than Lana Del Rey and your other ridiculous divas.


Apoleb
Dec 29th, 2011, 04:02 PM
Kate Bush - The Kick Inside

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/The_Kick_Inside_UK_cover.jpg

Highlights: Wuthering Heights, The Man with the Child in his Eyes, L'amour Looks Something Like You, Oh To Be In Love. The whole album basically.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7b/Whitney_Houston1985.jpg/220px-Whitney_Houston1985.jpg

Highlights: You Give Good Love, Saving All My Love for You, Greatest Love of All. The album is ear shattering, literally.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/59/MariahCarey-MCcover.jpg/220px-MariahCarey-MCcover.jpg

Highlights: Vision of Love, Someday, I Don't Wanna Cry, Vanishing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/51/Bjork%2C_Debut_album_cover%2C_1993.jpg/220px-Bjork%2C_Debut_album_cover%2C_1993.jpg (not technically a debut, but still)

Highlights: Human Behavior, Venus as a Boy, Play Dead.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/af/Control_%28Janet_Jackson_album%29_coverart.jpg/220px-Control_%28Janet_Jackson_album%29_coverart.jpg

Highlights: What Have You Done For Me Lately, Nasty, When I Think of You, The Pleasure Principle. Full of classics. (again, technically not a debut).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0f/MadonnaTheFirstAlbum1983AlbumCover.jpg/220px-MadonnaTheFirstAlbum1983AlbumCover.jpg

Highlights: the album cover, Holiday, Lucky Star, Borderline. Sort of defined dance pop music, which is still getting rehashed to this day.

http://funalso.com/images2/britney17.jpg

Highlights: yuck. I can't bring myself to name any highlights.

Lady Gaga - The Fame. I won't bother posting a picture. I just included her so her stans don't accuse me of being biased.

----

Everyone should feel included: the pretentious gays, the pop whore gays, and the big voice worshipping gays.

Women of all kind and straight men can also participate, but be aware that it can get pretty heated in here.

Let the blood bath begin!

Super Dave
Dec 29th, 2011, 04:10 PM
Wow. Impossible to choose between Whitney, Mariah, Janet, Madonna and Shitney. A lot of TF posters weren't alive / very old for the debuts of Whitney, Mariah, Janet and Madonna but they were all HUGE media bombshells. I'll try to choose one by process of elimination, but this is extremely ripe for debate.

Kate, Bjork...no way.

Super Dave
Dec 29th, 2011, 04:14 PM
Do we vote on the biggest worldwide smash / most influential or just our personal favorite?

delicatecutter
Dec 29th, 2011, 04:16 PM
Kate Bush and Bjork aren't pop divas.

So I vote for Mariah.

Apoleb
Dec 29th, 2011, 04:17 PM
Do we vote on the biggest worldwide smash / most influential or just our personal favorite?

It's the one you prefer/think had the biggest influence. It is not about the album that had the biggest sales.

Kate Bush and Bjork aren't pop divas

They very much are, particularly their debut albums. The Kick Inside is quintessential pop, and it's getting my vote, only slightly ahead of Janet's Control.

To expand a little more: The Kick Inside had everything you could ask for in a debut album by a 19 year old female pop star. The stunning/gorgeous voice, expressive singing, depth, sensuality, lyricism, catchy hooks and melodies and also the visuals. And I forgot to add that she also had the exquisite looks to top it all off.

Janet's Control is full of several classics that have lasted the test of time, with amaze hooks, melodies, harmonies and backing vocals despite Janet's vocal limitations in terms of power (but excellent tone).

delicatecutter
Dec 29th, 2011, 04:23 PM
Whoever does these things on Wikipedia describes TKI as "art rock" and Debut as "alternative dance". I'd say these are more accurate descriptions. I don't consider either to be a pop album.

Mistress of Evil
Dec 29th, 2011, 04:51 PM
Mariah!

the jamierbelyea
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:07 PM
The influence of some these albums,and how they helped pave the way and sort of changed the landscape of the music that was churned out directly after it is sort of amazing.

Whitney's album really did lay the groundwork for diva pop, that big booming voice that was so popular in the late 80s and early 90s. The big ballads like Greatest Love of All & Saving All My Love for You became sort of a template for the big diva records that have followed, but it's not always you have a singer that can have great ballads like this, but also more mainstream upbeat songs like How Will I Know, which make it a real complete album. I would even venture in a way in helped to bring in new life in the careers of some superstars before her like Patti LaBelle & Gladys Knight who both found some solo success after this album (also surely helped along by Tina Turner's comeback).

melodynelson
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:09 PM
These are all pop albums, just various kinds of pop.

Said that, I dislike The Kick Inside (her next several albums would be much better), and like Madonna's debut the most out of these albums listed, but I can't say I've listened to Janet, Mariah, or Whitney's debut records.

Miss Amor
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:17 PM
Madonna for me wins this.

Although I also LOVE The kick Inside and Mariah Carey;... Baby one More Time is one of my favourite albums too as I absolutely adore that era (Surprisingly I didn't get into Gaga's album till she released the Fame Monster).

The Dawntreader
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:21 PM
Bjork and Kate Bush's debut albums are leagues above everyone creatively, in this list. Debut in particular is an absolute marvel.

ElusiveChanteuse
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:21 PM
To be honest, if it's about worldwide success, Britney hands down with Lady Gaga closely behind and then probably Whitney. Others are not even worth mentioning.:shrug: Mariah was only huge because of her #1 singles but not her album. Her songs in her early days weren't that influential worldwide compared to the likes of Britney, Lady Gaga, Whitney. Whitney could be somehow underrated here but her songs in her debut album were still covered by singers in competition nowadays, and that shows something.

Anyway, I voted for Mariah.:oh:

Mary Cherry.
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:21 PM
Can't say I've heard them all, but out of the ones I have I'll go with Madonna. Lady GaGa 2nd.

Bonfire
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:27 PM
Madonna! Every song on it is good...even the filler tracks. Released in 83, it's all about the music, no "smoke & mirrors" and contained simple but solid dance/pop tracks with a (at the time) fresh funky vibe.
highlights for me...lucky star, borderline, burning up(:hearts:) holiday and everybody

ElusiveChanteuse
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:37 PM
and I thought Madonna's wasn't technically her debut album?:scratch:

Stamp Paid
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:50 PM
My mother, Mariah. :)

Bonfire
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:55 PM
and I thought Madonna's wasn't technically her debut album?:scratch:

The album listed here is in fact her debut album. Sometimes people think "Like a Virgin" was her first release but that was her follow up to this self titled album.

dsanders06
Dec 29th, 2011, 06:18 PM
Madonna's and Gaga's are the only ones which you could say really shaped pop for the years afterwards. People like Janet Jackson and Mariah were really only following the trends that were already in place and were never actually that big outside of the States anyway. Whitney only really hit her zenith more than 5 years into her career. Kate Bush and Bjork were probably the most creative, but hardly had a big impact on mainstream trends. Britney :spit:

it-girl
Dec 29th, 2011, 06:18 PM
Whitney, Mariah, Janet & Madonna all had great 1st albums. I don't think a lot of people have heard Whitney's1st album because if they did she would have more votes for sure. I love all types of music so I have heard almost everything Whitney has ever done and she is amazing.

the jamierbelyea
Dec 29th, 2011, 06:19 PM
Madonna's and Gaga's are the only ones which you could say really shaped pop for the years afterwards.

I think Whitney's influence is a lot more overreaching then Lady Gaga's as of right now.

Apoleb
Dec 29th, 2011, 06:26 PM
Madonna's and Gaga's are the only ones which you could say really shaped pop for the years afterwards. People like Janet Jackson and Mariah were really only following the trends that were already in place and were never actually that big outside of the States anyway. Whitney only really hit her zenith more than 5 years into her career. Kate Bush and Bjork were probably the most creative, but hardly had a big impact on mainstream trends. Britney :spit:

What exactly is Gaga's influence? She's a musical copy cat, and a very lame one at that. She and Britney are in the same category, and I would say the only ones from this group with little influence (though obviously still building their careers, so who knows).

WHitney's influence on the pop market was huge. As mentioned before, took the pop ballad into new heights. Mariah less so, but later in her career (the pop/rnb/rap fusion in particular), but that debut did have its influence and legacy. Janet's influence in particular was in music videos, dance and choreography - most pop artists still take their cues from her.

Kate Bush's debut and her initial 6 week tour were also incredibly influential - and she was actually one of the first (if not the first) to incorporate dancing with live performances, and had a special microphone created for her for the task! If it wasn't for her conscious decision to step out of the limelight and concentrate on the albums, she might have been even more influential.

LoveFifteen
Dec 29th, 2011, 09:12 PM
Oh, cute. A chance for the fabulous Miss Apoleb to highlight his superiority to others by throwing shade on Gaga, Britney & Mariah while staning for Kate Bush and Whitney Houston. :rolls:

Monica_Rules
Dec 29th, 2011, 09:16 PM
I voted Gaga just to piss the OP off

ToopsTame
Dec 29th, 2011, 09:31 PM
Oh, cute. A chance for the fabulous Miss Apoleb to highlight his superiority to others by throwing shade on Gaga, Britney & Mariah while staning for Kate Bush and Whitney Houston. :rolls:

Gurl, it has been brought! :lol:

I agree that Lady Gaga is derivative, but you can't pretend like Madonna or Whitney composed their own original music. I don't know enough about Kate Bush so I can't comment on her but apart from Bjork, everyone else on your list is a product of many other people's work. They all have serious deficits, they can't sing (Madonna, Britney, Janet) or can't write good songs (all of them) or can't dance (Whitney, Mariah). They were all creative in developing their public image and worked hard to get their success but you can't really give any of them that much credit for their debut albums. They all took advantage of gimmicks to get ahead too (Madonna and her clothes, dancing and stealing from gays, Gaga and her clothes, Janet and that earring, those shoulder pads and that dancing, Britney and her all-american slut image, Whitney and her affectations and unnecessary melismas, Mariah and her whistle register).

Apoleb
Dec 29th, 2011, 09:33 PM
Oh, cute. A chance for the fabulous Miss Apoleb to highlight his superiority to others by throwing shade on Gaga, Britney & Mariah while staning for Kate Bush and Whitney Houston. :rolls:


c4GRJgMXHo8

And an idiot, too. Calling someone a "miss" as a derogatory comment - how cuuuuute.

azdaja
Dec 29th, 2011, 09:40 PM
well, my personal preference and vote goes for björk because it was the most ballsy "debut" out of all these (plus i like it most anyway). as an artist madonna was the most influential one, though, but i think her debut didn't make as much impact as her second one did. or anything she has ever made since.

i don't think lady gaga or britney had much influence on pop music. britney was a continuation of girl bands and lady gaga definitely is a copy cat artist, a wannabe madonna regardless of what her fans want to believe. it's too late, though. just like all those guitar pop bands have to live with the fact that the beatles came before them so will lady gaga fans have to live with the fact that madonna came first. sowwy :p

azdaja
Dec 29th, 2011, 09:42 PM
Gurl, it has been brought! :lol:

I agree that Lady Gaga is derivative, but you can't pretend like Madonna or Whitney composed their own original music. I don't know enough about Kate Bush so I can't comment on her but apart from Bjork, everyone else on your list is a product of many other people's work. They all have serious deficits, they can't sing (Madonna, Britney, Janet) or can't write good songs (all of them) or can't dance (Whitney, Mariah). They were all creative in developing their public image and worked hard to get their success but you can't really give any of them that much credit for their debut albums. They all took advantage of gimmicks to get ahead too (Madonna and her clothes, dancing and stealing from gays, Gaga and her clothes, Janet and that earring, those shoulder pads and that dancing, Britney and her all-american slut image, Whitney and her affectations and unnecessary melismas, Mariah and her whistle register).
anyone who claims björk was not a product of many other people's work obviously has no idea what her music was based on. it was not hers or her producer's work.

Lord Choc Ice
Dec 29th, 2011, 09:43 PM
That is not Janet's debut.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Jackson_%28album%29

I can't say I've listened to any of all these albums in full so I maybe shouldn't vote, but I will :oh:.

King Halep
Dec 29th, 2011, 10:10 PM
Musically or stylewise, Jaja, Bjork or Bush. Commercially, Mariah narrowly over Whitney but Crackney's had the better songs

ToopsTame
Dec 29th, 2011, 10:16 PM
anyone who claims björk was not a product of many other people's work obviously has no idea what her music was based on. it was not hers or her producer's work.

Oh I didn't know. :oh: My mistake. I bought into her whole artiste act. :tape:

You guys also forgot what might be the most thunderous debut of all.

http://d.yimg.com/ec/image/v1/release/218949379;encoding=jpg;size=300;fallback=defaultIm age

*technically not her debut

it-girl
Dec 29th, 2011, 11:06 PM
Based on the music charts Whitney's did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums

King Halep
Dec 29th, 2011, 11:26 PM
well, my personal preference and vote goes for björk because it was the most ballsy "debut" out of all these (plus i like it most anyway). as an artist madonna was the most influential one, though, but i think her debut didn't make as much impact as her second one did. or anything she has ever made since.

i don't think lady gaga or britney had much influence on pop music. britney was a continuation of girl bands and lady gaga definitely is a copy cat artist, a wannabe madonna regardless of what her fans want to believe. it's too late, though. just like all those guitar pop bands have to live with the fact that the beatles came before them so will lady gaga fans have to live with the fact that madonna came first. sowwy :p

a bit too generalised. Jaja does have some style and fashion statements to make. she obviously has a shedload of talent and its simplistic to ignore that. for that guy who was minimising the immediate musical impact of bush and bjork, the most important musical impact and inspiration are usually seen many years later when new artists who grew up on that music finally appear. if an artist's main impact is in making mainstream media sluttier and more overt, then i really question the artistic value of it.

Miracle Worker
Dec 30th, 2011, 12:20 AM
Shitney :oh:

But wait... I've just found out she's diva :spit:

volta
Dec 30th, 2011, 12:27 AM
Madonna's and Gaga's are the only ones which you could say really shaped pop for the years afterwards. People like Janet Jackson and Mariah were really only following the trends that were already in place and were never actually that big outside of the States anyway. Whitney only really hit her zenith more than 5 years into her career. Kate Bush and Bjork were probably the most creative, but hardly had a big impact on mainstream trends. Britney :spit:
lmfao This is RICH

What trend was Janet following ? i need the laughs :lol:

dsanders06
Dec 30th, 2011, 01:03 AM
What exactly is Gaga's influence? She's a musical copy cat, and a very lame one at that. She and Britney are in the same category, and I would say the only ones from this group with little influence (though obviously still building their careers, so who knows).

I would say pretty much every mainstream smash hit over the past 3 years was because of Gaga's influence. She definitely (re-)popularised "club bangers" and got it to be the dominant trend even on the American charts where it had been pretty much dead. I'm not trying to say she was doing anything particularly musically innovative, but she was still the leader of the dominant music craze in recent years, in a way that no-one else on the list Madonna aside managed to do (most of them were themselves jumping on bandwagons already got rolling by others).

dsanders06
Dec 30th, 2011, 01:08 AM
lmfao This is RICH

What trend was Janet following ? i need the laughs :lol:

:spit: Trends set by other people on this list for a start.

Apoleb
Dec 30th, 2011, 01:12 AM
I would say pretty much every mainstream smash hit over the past 3 years was because of Gaga's influence. She definitely (re-)popularised "club bangers" and got it to be the dominant trend even on the American charts where it had been pretty much dead. I'm not trying to say she was doing anything particularly musically innovative, but she was still the leader of the dominant music craze in recent years, in a way that no-one else on the list Madonna aside managed to do (most of them were themselves jumping on bandwagons already got rolling by others).

Sorry but this is ridiculous. Dance pop has been popular all through the 00s, from Kylie's Fever, Madonna's Confessions to even Britney's Blackout. Gaga did absolutely nothing musically; not only the type of music, but she's also really lame in the dance pop department - it's been done before and much better. The only thing she can be credited for is perfecting what a pop fraud is, but then again this was also done before (i.e Madonna).

Trends set by other people on this list for a start.

Janet was one of the first to popularize pop/R&B, not to mention taking choreography in performance to a whole new level by female artists. She's quite unique on this list actually. What trends she was following? Certainly not Madonna, Kate Bush or Whitney. :lol:

WowWow
Dec 30th, 2011, 01:26 AM
This is a tough one between Whitney and Madonna. The others had great success too but it was really more local comparing to Whitney and Madonna. Gaga happened recently, so we can't really have a clear perspective on her.

delicatecutter
Dec 30th, 2011, 01:32 AM
I'm sorry but some of Gaga's songs are among the best in the dance-pop genre. And she can actually sing, which is more than I can say for 3 of the people on this list.

dsanders06
Dec 30th, 2011, 03:10 AM
Sorry but this is ridiculous. Dance pop has been popular all through the 00s, from Kylie's Fever, Madonna's Confessions to even Britney's Blackout. Gaga did absolutely nothing musically; not only the type of music, but she's also really lame in the dance pop department - it's been done before and much better. The only thing she can be credited for is perfecting what a pop fraud is, but then again this was also done before (i.e Madonna).

From a purely British perspective, I don't agree with that at all: the dominant genres for most of the 00s were indie (Coldplay, Snow Patrol, Keane etc.), rock (The Killers, Green Day, Arctic Monkeys etc.) and singer-songwritery stuff (James Blunt, KT Tunstall, Duffy, I guess you could even lump Amy Winehouse into that broad category)... even the poppiest stuff for most of the decade was mostly guitar-driven (Kelly Clarkson, P!nk, McFly etc.). Late 2008/2009 was really the first time in many years that pure pop had been dominating the charts, and Lady Gaga was pretty much at the forefront of that revival... then David Guetta and Black Eyed Peas jumped on the bandwagon and it became the dominant force pretty quickly

Again, I'm not trying to claim she revolutionised music - although I like some of Gaga's stuff, I do think she's overrated, and some of the stuff she inadvertantly spawned in recent years has been abysmal (I'm looking at you 'Party Rock Anthem'), but in terms of the impact she had on short-term trends, there's no denying that Lady Gaga's fingerprints are all over virtually every huge mainstream hit of late.

CrossCourt~Rally
Dec 30th, 2011, 04:31 AM
I picked Lady GaGa :cool:

Btw, 'Control' wasn't Janet's debut album ;). She released 2 earlier albums, 'Janet Jackson' in 1982 followed by one of my fave J albums in 1984, 'Dream Street' :bounce:

volta
Dec 30th, 2011, 06:40 AM
:spit: Trends set by other people on this list for a start.
:happy:

Please tell us which artist has made an album like control


Sorry but this is ridiculous. Dance pop has been popular all through the 00s, from Kylie's Fever, Madonna's Confessions to even Britney's Blackout. Gaga did absolutely nothing musically; not only the type of music, but she's also really lame in the dance pop department - it's been done before and much better. The only thing she can be credited for is perfecting what a pop fraud is, but then again this was also done before (i.e Madonna).



Janet was one of the first to popularize pop/R&B, not to mention taking choreography in performance to a whole new level by female artists. She's quite unique on this list actually. What trends she was following? Certainly not Madonna, Kate Bush or Whitney. :lol:

Thank You. I bet he didn't even listened to the album or knows anything about Janet

Lord Choc Ice
Dec 30th, 2011, 06:46 AM
OMG why did I pick Britney? :tears: I just remembered how silly and unlistenable (below the age of 8 or so) some of her debut album's songs are. Although, I think "From The Bottom of My Broken Heart" is cute.

On the other hand, the only other of these debuts I've heard in full is Gaga's (which I think has a great first half and a crap second half) so I dunno...

moby
Dec 30th, 2011, 07:14 AM
Miss Platnum's mainstream debut, Chefa, spawned greatness such as Mercedes Benz and this:

trn1f-IDfro

On a more serious note, none of these? As good as they are, putting Kate Bush and Bjork in this category is category fraud (even if Apoleb has recently discovered Kate Bush a decade after everyone did and developed an infatuation for her and wants to reward her in this poll or something), and the rest are mediocre (in the sense that they are really much more similar to Miss Platnum then people like to pretend - and with the exception of Gaga, the rest are merely mediocre by comparison and not even deliciously campy). But this is my aesthetics speaking. I would always prefer a failure (intentional or deliberate) to flat-out mediocrity.

I would nominate Carole King's Tapestry (not exactly a debut, but this sophomore effort was close enough to her actual debut to be lumped in with).

delicatecutter
Dec 30th, 2011, 07:54 AM
*dead* @ Apoleb just now discovering Kate Bush if that is true. And category fraud indeed which I believe I mentioned in post #2.

Apoleb
Dec 30th, 2011, 08:58 AM
It's NOT category fraud. It's pop music all through out and those albums by Bjork and Bush are not that radically different from the other ones, but I expected the "pretentious gays" group would claim something like this. :P Just because someone calls it "art pop" because she talked about a novel or something doesn't make it less pop, and very pop for the matter.

And I'm sorry, I don't consider this "mediocre":

gNuamtgGKB4

Or this. kxBxq4VNoIk

It's some of the purest pop/r&B to have been made, and set the stage for people like Beyonce and others and the fusion of r&b and pop.

edit: Incidentally, Control is possibly the most critically celebrated album among this bunch - frequently on top lists of defining records.

delicatecutter
Dec 30th, 2011, 09:02 AM
Why not include Tori's Little Earthquakes or Polly's Dry then? Fiona's Tidal? :scratch: Face it, two people in your list do not belong with the others.

Apoleb
Dec 30th, 2011, 09:11 AM
Why not include Tori's Little Earthquakes or Polly's Dry then? Fiona's Tidal? :scratch: Face it, two people in your list do not belong with the others.

I don't think these were "thundersome" either musically, culturally or commercially. But I like the Carole King nomination. There's only room for 10 anyways. Just vote and fight! :p

delicatecutter
Dec 30th, 2011, 09:14 AM
Nor are they in the pop genre same as Kate or Bjork. I nominate Joni Mitchell's Blue. I know it wasn't her debut or anything. But it was very important.

azdaja
Dec 30th, 2011, 10:26 AM
Oh I didn't know. :oh: My mistake. I bought into her whole artiste act. :tape:
i'm not saying björk isn't more of an artist than most pop singers, but her music back in the 90's was based entirely on electronic dance music. little of that music can be "composed" and a producer is not simply a sound engineer but an actual music maker. björk did try to make her second album entirely on her own, but eventually had to ask for help. and producers who make this kind of music frequently release their own tunes and albums. they often work with less known singers who are mentioned as in "producer x featuring singer y". you can't do that with björk since she had much more input in the music making process, those songs are her songs and not just for the lyrics, but the nature of that music genre is that the music is really a collaboration between the artist and the producer. björk's live performances clearly show how good she really is. it's just that the "she composes her own music" argument is a bit out of place here.

AdeyC
Dec 30th, 2011, 10:52 AM
Kate Bush

Beat
Dec 30th, 2011, 11:12 AM
but her music back in the 90's was based entirely on electronic dance music.
huh? [1]
please go back and listen to debut, post and homogenic again.

little of that music can be "composed"
huh? [2]
why do you think electronic music can't be composed? where does it come from then?
an electronic song has to be written just like a rock song, it's simply the materialization of the song that is different. unless you talk about artists like autechre or aphex twin, but they are on a completely dfferent planet anyway.

azdaja
Dec 30th, 2011, 12:12 PM
huh? [1]
please go back and listen to debut, post and homogenic again.
the last time i listened to björk's music from that time was 2 days ago, i don't need to listen to them again. i mean, what was debut based on if not dance music?

huh? [2]
why do you think electronic music can't be composed? where does it come from then?
an electronic song has to be written just like a rock song, it's simply the materialization of the song that is different. unless you talk about artists like autechre or aphex twin, but they are on a completely dfferent planet anyway.
of course it has to be written, but sound manipulation is essential part of making electronic music. of course you still have to make melodies and make arrangements, but it's different from making music with live instruments because artists rely more on the producers help. producers are credited as co-writers on roughly half of björk's songs anyway and i only thought some people underestimate their contribution to her music from that period.

and by the little part you quoted i was meaning more pure dance music than dance pop.

Beat
Dec 30th, 2011, 12:38 PM
the last time i listened to björk's music from that time was 2 days ago, i don't need to listen to them again. i mean, what was debut based on if not dance music?

you said that björk's albums from the 90ies was "entirely" based on dance music, when there's in fact a lot more going on on those records.

of course it has to be written, but sound manipulation is essential part of making electronic music.

sound manipulation is an essential part of a lot of kinds popular music. go and listen to, say, mogwai or M83.

of course you still have to make melodies and make arrangements, but it's different from making music with live instruments because artists rely more on the producers help.

making melodies = composing, no?

artists rely on the producer's help, no matter if they make electronic music or music with live instruments. nirvana's "nevermind" would sound completely different without butch vig, pj harvey's "rid of me" completely different without steve albini. i could go on and on.
there's really not many artists that write and produce everything from A to Z without any kind of outside help. and it doesn't matter what kind of genre.

azdaja
Dec 30th, 2011, 01:45 PM
you said that björk's albums from the 90ies was "entirely" based on dance music, when there's in fact a lot more going on on those records.
that's only if you think there is not much going on in dance music. the main difference is that björk's music was not made for dancing, but otherwise there is little difference.

sound manipulation is an essential part of a lot of kinds popular music. go and listen to, say, mogwai or M83.

making melodies = composing, no?
people who make electronic music call their work music production, not composition. björk was a co-producer on most of her songs for a reason. some of the terminology used by the music industry and the music press is a bit out of place.

artists rely on the producer's help, no matter if they make electronic music or music with live instruments. nirvana's "nevermind" would sound completely different without butch vig, pj harvey's "rid of me" completely different without steve albini. i could go on and on.
there's really not many artists that write and produce everything from A to Z without any kind of outside help. and it doesn't matter what kind of genre.
again, björk's producers were credited as co-writers of her songs. this is not the case with nirvana. in electronic pop music the border between a producer and a co-author is very thin.

ToopsTame
Dec 30th, 2011, 02:56 PM
Miss Platnum's mainstream debut, Chefa, spawned greatness such as Mercedes Benz and this:

trn1f-IDfro



She's delicious! :hearts: The pop divas listed in this thread don't have a tenth of the self awareness she has.

This must be the gayest thread in the history of TF :hearts: :worship:

Break My Rapture
Dec 30th, 2011, 02:57 PM
Dead @ random insult 'Shitney' in the poll options. :hysteric:

Dave.
Dec 30th, 2011, 03:41 PM
http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/71f21a2547ac699b5bbca2cd2c84c284/88.jpg

:bowdown: :p


From the list the only one whose immediate impact I actually witnessed was Gaga's, so it's hard for me to compare. The hype surrounding Gaga in 2009/10 (and in 2011 to an extent) was really extraordinary given the album itself. I'm not sure (any of) the others received that kind of reception off their first album.

Anyway I voted Whitney as it's my fave from the list. Madonna's is good but I find her other three 80s albums much better.

LeRoy.
Dec 30th, 2011, 03:45 PM
:hearts: @ the Queen and Princess of Pop locked in a tie. :inlove:

:haha: @ MooMoo winning. :tape:

Apoleb shouldn't be starting dumb polls. Rest you fingers and brains. Instead use your oral talents for polishing Arab clocks.

ElusiveChanteuse
Dec 30th, 2011, 05:09 PM
I'm quite surprised MooMoo is leading so far.:haha: Didn't expect she has so many secret stans in TF.:oh: and where are the other artist's stans?:oh:

Root
Dec 30th, 2011, 05:18 PM
Kate Bush and Bjork aren't pop divas.

So I vote for Mariah.

Girl what are you on about? Kate Bush is the one and only pop diva/queen/etc.--she created pop music. Most of the ladies on the list and elsewhere wouldn't exist if it weren't for her. Gaga, Britney, etc. may list Madonna (who is a shameless Kate rip off) as an inspiration but they actually took theirs from Kate.

And Bjork's Debut is very much pop music in my opinion.

Anyway, I went with The Kick Inside, one of the best debut albums of all time. It has everything I could ask for in a debut.

Olórin
Dec 30th, 2011, 07:25 PM
To be honest, if it's about worldwide success, Britney hands down with Lady Gaga closely behind and then probably Whitney. Others are not even worth mentioning.:shrug: Mariah was only huge because of her #1 singles but not her album. Her songs in her early days weren't that influential worldwide compared to the likes of Britney, Lady Gaga, Whitney. Whitney could be somehow underrated here but her songs in her debut album were still covered by singers in competition nowadays, and that shows something.

Anyway, I voted for Mariah.:oh:

Well it's not really Britney hands down as Whitney's album sold 25 mill WW which is I think record for biggest debut along with Britney. Although Gaga's Fame and Fame Monster sales were probably at least as big Whit or Brit relative to the era (15 mill+ I think for those two albums).

Although the sales on Madonna's debut weren't nearly as high as Like a Virgin or Like a Prayer in the long term it was still a thunderous album because it contained Holiday and introduced the name "Madonna" to the world.


Girl what are you on about? Kate Bush is the one and only pop diva/queen/etc.--she created pop music. Most of the ladies on the list and elsewhere wouldn't exist if it weren't for her. Gaga, Britney, etc. may list Madonna (who is a shameless Kate rip off) as an inspiration but they actually took theirs from Kate.


Kate Bush is one of my favourite singers and Wuthering Heights one of my favourite songs but she hardly created pop music and I don't really see how she would have been a big influence on the Americans as she was never that big in America. Britney has consistently listed Madonna and Whitney has two of her main inspirations, as has Gaga. Whatever you think of them they are clearly intelligent enough to understand what music they have listened to and what kind of music pushes their buttons - which is quite important in terms of artist-impact. Of course how that actually plays into the music they themselves produce is a bit more complicated because I don't think someone like Britney has much creative imput into what she does, but there's certainly not much Kate in there.

I picked Whitney's anyway in terms of "Thunder", although I have not listened to Janet's or all of Mariah's and I am barely aware of Bjork's work. It has the most stellar vocals out of all the albums that alone do enough to ensure its musical integrity; and it is both easily accessible as an album (How Will I Know, Saving All My Love for You), and yet contains enough deep and profound material that can elicit higher emotions (Nobody Loves Me Like You Do, Greatest Love of All) which I feel is important in the album.

Apoleb
Dec 30th, 2011, 08:49 PM
Girl what are you on about? Kate Bush is the one and only pop diva/queen/etc.--she created pop music. Most of the ladies on the list and elsewhere wouldn't exist if it weren't for her. Gaga, Britney, etc. may list Madonna (who is a shameless Kate rip off) as an inspiration but they actually took theirs from Kate.

And Bjork's Debut is very much pop music in my opinion.

Anyway, I went with The Kick Inside, one of the best debut albums of all time. It has everything I could ask for in a debut.

Thank you. I'm so done with this silliness. I wouldn't say she created pop music, but those debuts were TOTALLY pop, not only with the music, but Kate went the whole nine yard in selling the product. If I picked Aerial or Biophilia, then one could make an argument, but even then this is music on the fringes of pop and not completely outside of it. The Kick Inside had lyrics such as "feel it, feel it, feel it" but I guess pop has become synonymous with disposable (thank you Shitney).

delicatecutter
Dec 30th, 2011, 08:52 PM
You forgot Kesha.

And I could say basically any good album was a pop album but that doesn't excuse that Kate and Bjork are at a completely different level artistically than the other "artists" in the poll.

ToopsTame
Dec 30th, 2011, 09:01 PM
You Kate Bush stans are something else. Pop music has existed for a long time. The early Beatles stuff was all pop. The Beach Boys were pop. Pop divas have existed forever as well. Have you heard of Nancy Sinatra, Shirley Bassey or Petula Clark? or how about Cher? Gaga, Britney, Mariah etc. would have had lots of role models even without Ms. Bush.

delicatecutter
Dec 30th, 2011, 09:04 PM
Kate Bush has also never had a hit song in the States either; many people here have never heard of her. Shouldn't a so-called "pop diva" be a household name?

M.S.F
Dec 31st, 2011, 12:02 AM
Madonna's and Gaga's are the only ones which you could say really shaped pop for the years afterwards. People like Janet Jackson and Mariah were really only following the trends that were already in place and were never actually that big outside of the States anyway. Whitney only really hit her zenith more than 5 years into her career. Kate Bush and Bjork were probably the most creative, but hardly had a big impact on mainstream trends. Britney :spit:

Oh no you didn't :lol:
Both Control and Rhythm Nation were trend-setting for their strong production and music videos.
Nasty Boys is acutually credited for inspiring the new jack swing genre.
Also she was the only good female dancer I can remember in 1986.

My vote is based on worldwide success of both the album and singles.
It goes to Whitney Houston.

Root
Dec 31st, 2011, 12:31 AM
Kate Bush is one of my favourite singers and Wuthering Heights one of my favourite songs but she hardly created pop music and I don't really see how she would have been a big influence on the Americans as she was never that big in America. Britney has consistently listed Madonna and Whitney has two of her main inspirations, as has Gaga. Whatever you think of them they are clearly intelligent enough to understand what music they have listened to and what kind of music pushes their buttons - which is quite important in terms of artist-impact.

You Kate Bush stans are something else. Pop music has existed for a long time. The early Beatles stuff was all pop. The Beach Boys were pop. Pop divas have existed forever as well. Have you heard of Nancy Sinatra, Shirley Bassey or Petula Clark? or how about Cher? Gaga, Britney, Mariah etc. would have had lots of role models even without Ms. Bush.

Some people won't get a joke even when it hits them. 'Creating' pop music was a joke. She did have great influence on current pop artists and others though. Many female solo artists old and new are happy to reference her as an influence. Florence Welch, Goldfrapp, Bat for Lashes, Bjork and Fever Ray are but a few artists who were influenced by the divine Kate. Just because they don't hit charts/people haven't heard of them don't make them any less pop artists. So yes, I could say she may have had a hand in shaping the current pop scene.

Anyway, why is delicatecutter acting like 'pop' is a derogatory label? You're like those people who live off "they're not pop, they're indie pop/art pop/etc." It's still pop. Bjork and Bush may not sound too pop-y now but their debut albums certainly were. My two pennies worth.

Roookie
Dec 31st, 2011, 12:40 AM
Bjork's by miles. And it is a pop album.

melodynelson
Dec 31st, 2011, 12:42 AM
I listened to Kate's first album again today. That is a very poppy album. I'm not sure if I'd really call her a pop DIVA, though. She's inspired a lot of great music that's popular (enough) today, though.

I think the people defining stuff just by chart sales...is that what is most important? Or the actual quality of the music? When I think about thunderous, I'm not really thinking about the choreography or the sales, but the quality and impact/influence of that music not being just defined by the people who bought it, but the music it inspired.

Because Apoleb's question could be taken in several different ways, I suppose.

Steadyniacki
Dec 31st, 2011, 12:46 AM
Lady Gaga. Her first album was amazing, had so many hits.

moby
Dec 31st, 2011, 01:31 AM
2 points:
1, I was not aware that a musician is pop by pure virtue of their debut. I guess Tori is a synth goddess then. Both Kate and Bjork have shown that they are beyond pop in their careers, even if their debuts were more commercial. (This is true for most artists, even experimental ones.)

2, I think what characterizes pop is not melodic hooks or a "poppy" sound, but rather a relative lack of progressive intent. Even in her debut, which was conservative in its approach to song structure, Kate was throwing in all kinds of in depth literary and historical allusions, and telling stories from the third person instead of writing autobiographical lyrics.

It is not that I am trying to be anal, but labels are there for a reason. I mean, I have a classical musician friend who considers all radio music, including rap and metal, pop, for instance.

I want to end off by saying that even though I am biased towards progressive music, that does not mean pop is bad. It is merely judged by a different rubric, a rubric weighted more towards execution than innovation. And this is why Carole King's Tapestry, because and not in spite of its simplicity and straightforwardness, is one of the best albums of all time of any genre.

delicatecutter
Dec 31st, 2011, 02:35 AM
Anyway, why is delicatecutter acting like 'pop' is a derogatory label? You're like those people who live off "they're not pop, they're indie pop/art pop/etc." It's still pop. Bjork and Bush may not sound too pop-y now but their debut albums certainly were. My two pennies worth.

I love pop music. I grew up on Mariah, Paula Abdul, etc. I lived for the heyday of pop music in the early 00s. Sure you can say The Kick Inside is poppy. There is a definite verse chorus verse structure. Same with Debut. Debut is clearly the best album of the ones listed. But that wasn't the question. And if it was, I missed the intent. I don't consider Kate Bush or Bjork pop artists in the US, where I've lived my whole life. They are on a completely different plane than the other verifiable "pop divas" in the poll. Here they are classified as alternative artists. And just because I love alternative or progressive music the most doesn't mean I don't love pop music.

It's hard to define what pop music is. But it's way easier to define what an alleged "pop diva" is. Bjork is probably most known for her infamous Swan Dress here than anything else. And Kate Bush just isn't really known, period. You wouldn't believe how many people think "This Woman's Work" is a Maxwell original. Just my two cents.

And what moby said. You can't put Kate Bush and Bjork in the same category as all the other women. It just doesn't make any logical sense.

delicatecutter
Dec 31st, 2011, 02:49 AM
Lady Gaga. Her first album was amazing, had so many hits.

Just nearly as many misses though. Not a consistent album my any means.

Kesha's debut CD is better than several of the people on the poll but I guess she hasn't done enough yet to be included.

M.S.F
Dec 31st, 2011, 03:01 AM
Just nearly as many misses though. Not a consistent album my any means.

Kesha's debut CD is better than several of the people on the poll but I guess she hasn't done enough yet to be included.

Better than Britney only.

delicatecutter
Dec 31st, 2011, 03:08 AM
Easily better than The Fame also. I've been listening to it non-stop the past few days. Excellent debut all the way around. Granted I have never listened to Whitney's CD all the way through; but it was 1985. Some of those songs sound dated as is.

ToopsTame
Dec 31st, 2011, 05:05 AM
Well you know, there is that stereotype about which type of gays prefer which type of pop divas.

Babygays - Lady GaGa
Circuit Queens - Deborah Cox, Anastacia,
Artfags - Kate Bush, Bjork, Grace Jones, Cindy Lauper, Tori Amos, Fiona Apple
Urban Queens - Beyonce, Rihanna
Dramatic centre of attention Queens - Madonna, Whitney, Mariah, Beyonce
Southern Queens - Dolly Parton, Carrie Underwood
Tweakers & Twinks - Britney, Christina
Bohemian slobs who don't shower - Courtney Love
Band camp fags - Maria Callas, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday
Showtune Queens - Liza with a z and Patti LuPone
Lipstick lesbians - Ani DiFranco, Sarah Maclachlan
Old fashioned antique shoppers - Barbra, Cher
Thugs - Li'l Kim, Missy Elliot

delicatecutter
Dec 31st, 2011, 05:22 AM
I'm glad I'm here to break stereotypes but I'm one of the few gay men I know who love Ani. I usually have to share my love for her with lesbians. :hysteric: Which is ironic cause Ani isn't even a lesbian.

ToopsTame
Dec 31st, 2011, 05:28 AM
I'm glad I'm here to break stereotypes but I'm one of the few gay men I know who love Ani. I usually have to share my love for her with lesbians. :hysteric: Which is ironic cause Ani isn't even a lesbian.

Those Ani fans take that shit seriously. Like how some straight tween girls start weeping at a Justin Bieber sighting.

Apoleb
Dec 31st, 2011, 06:43 AM
So now people are clutching at "pop divas" :lol:. Give me a break. Stop complaining, vote for your diva and tell us why.

Apoleb
Dec 31st, 2011, 06:48 AM
2 points:
1, I was not aware that a musician is pop by pure virtue of their debut. I guess Tori is a synth goddess then. Both Kate and Bjork have shown that they are beyond pop in their careers, even if their debuts were more commercial. (This is true for most artists, even experimental ones.)

2, I think what characterizes pop is not melodic hooks or a "poppy" sound, but rather a relative lack of progressive intent. Even in her debut, which was conservative in its approach to song structure, Kate was throwing in all kinds of in depth literary and historical allusions, and telling stories from the third person instead of writing autobiographical lyrics.

It is not that I am trying to be anal, but labels are there for a reason. I mean, I have a classical musician friend who considers all radio music, including rap and metal, pop, for instance.

I want to end off by saying that even though I am biased towards progressive music, that does not mean pop is bad. It is merely judged by a different rubric, a rubric weighted more towards execution than innovation. And this is why Carole King's Tapestry, because and not in spite of its simplicity and straightforwardness, is one of the best albums of all time of any genre.

So basically you define pop by exclusion, as what you don't deem too creative or "progressive". BTW, many consider Michael Jackson's Thriller to be progressive in both the music and the overall delivery. And as mentioned earlier, Control introduced Jack Swing - so pop in itself is not beyond progression.

Pop should first and foremost be defined by its musical structure. We've had this discussion recently in another thread. And strong melodic hooks are VERY much integral to the pop formula. A lot of artists do get a lot more experimental and start involving cryptic lyrics and stranger arrangements, and imo that would qualify them to be pop**. But none of the albums I picked fit this rubric to start with. So I insist especially The Kick Inside is as pop as you can make it.

edit: here's my updated definition of pop music. At its very basis, pop music simply means accessible music to the masses. However, this is almost tautological and would be expected to vary from one culture to another, and from one time to another. So better to look at the characteristics that make music, pop music: song format with an emphasis on a repeated chorus, short duration (somewhat up to 7 minutes), a heavy reliance on the power of melody (pretty much the most important criterion), easily accessible lyrics (though this is much less stringent criteria as lyrics aren't that important in the accessibility of pop music). That's it. All of these albums are easily pop, and dare I say the artists in general are, but they drift slightly more, making them pop** later in their careers. And pop is a form of art in itself, and I don't consider any form of art superior to another. It's not the form that matters, it's what each individual makes of every experience that makes art better or worse, "deep" or shallow. It's hard to say even the simplest "I love you" with the simplest melody is shallow.

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 31st, 2011, 02:23 PM
The fact that a talentless piece of trash like Shitney Spears is one vote behind GOATney Houston is downright appalling. I think I've lost faith in the gays humanity for this. At least Mariah salvaged the poll somewhat.

LeRoy.
Dec 31st, 2011, 05:24 PM
How dare you? :fiery:

Godney Spearit >>>>>>> Crackney Whostoned

ytJpZguSy2U

M.S.F
Dec 31st, 2011, 05:53 PM
Godney Spearit >>>>>>> Crackney Whostoned

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb150/TOTO-LERO/gifs/119vsz9jpg.gif

LeRoy.
Dec 31st, 2011, 06:11 PM
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb150/TOTO-LERO/gifs/119vsz9jpg.gif

Flop.

Time to upgrade yourself from a Flop to a Pro ?

M.S.F
Dec 31st, 2011, 06:16 PM
Flop.

Time to upgrade yourself from a Flop to a Pro ?

:rolls:

Apoleb
Jan 2nd, 2012, 09:24 PM
Bump. :sobbing:

It's ridiculous that Mariah is winning this. I was am a lamb, but her debut is one of the least musically influential imo, along with Gaga and Shitney. All of the others moved the pop field in new ways.

Here is how I rank them:

Bush>Janet (I haven't listened to the Bjork album in its entirety so I'm excluding it). Back to the Janet album, also ridiculous that she only has two votes. As mentioned earlier. this is one of the best pop/R&B albums ever made. The production and the beats are downright insane, in terms of originality and setting a trademark. So much for moby's "mediocrity" comment. :rolleyes:. As for Kate, Wuthering Heights is obviously a climax in pop music. An insanely catchy tune about a 19th century novel = genius.

Then we get into useless territory:

Whitney (very influential on the music market, but it's crap really)>Madonna (cool songs, but too bubble gum)>Mariah(some cool songs, but meh - plus there is "Prisoner" :haha:)>Shitney =Lady Gaga (when meh becomes tfeh) .

ToopsTame
Jan 2nd, 2012, 09:38 PM
Bump. :sobbing:

It's ridiculous that Mariah is winning this. I was am a lamb, but her debut is one of the least musically influential imo, along with Gaga and Shitney. All of the others moved the pop field in new ways.

Here is how I rank them:

Bush>Janet (I haven't listened to the Bjork album in its entirety so I'm excluding it). Back to the Janet album, also ridiculous that she only has two votes. As mentioned earlier. this is one of the best pop/R&B albums ever made. The production and the beats are downright insane, in terms of originality and setting a trademark.

Then we get into useless territory:

Whitney (very influential on the music market, but it's crap really)>Madonna (cool songs, but too bubble gum)>Mariah(some cool songs, but meh)>Shitney =Lady Gaga .

This is because you are a pretentious gay and those albums do well by pretentious gay metrics.

Kate Bush: She's foreign and has a unique voice and is artistic and is certifiably crazy and barely anyone from the mainstream in the US has heard of her.
Janet: Claimed she intended it for a black audience so bonus cool points. Black people are cool to pretentious gays, almost as cool as foreigners. After Rhythm Nation she was much more mainstream pop.

If we use the danceability metric (utilized by the clubgays):
Madonna>Janet>GaGa>Britney>Bjork>Kate>Whitney>Mariah

If we use the vocal quality metric (utilized by bandfags):
Whitney>Mariah>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kate>GaGa>Britney>Janet>Madonna>Bjork

If we use the lyrical quality metric:
They're all crap.

Stamp Paid
Jan 2nd, 2012, 09:41 PM
Bump. :sobbing:

It's ridiculous that Mariah is winning this. I was am a lamb, but her debut is one of the least musically influential imo, along with Gaga and Shitney. All of the others moved the pop field in new ways.

Here is how I rank them:

Bush>Janet (I haven't listened to the Bjork album in its entirety so I'm excluding it). Back to the Janet album, also ridiculous that she only has two votes. As mentioned earlier. this is one of the best pop/R&B albums ever made. The production and the beats are downright insane, in terms of originality and setting a trademark. So much for moby's "mediocrity" comment. :rolleyes:. As for Kate, Wuthering Heights is obviously a climax in pop music. An insanely catchy tune about a 19th century novel = genius.

Then we get into useless territory:

Whitney (very influential on the music market, but it's crap really)>Madonna (cool songs, but too bubble gum)>Mariah(some cool songs, but meh - plus there is "Prisoner" :haha:)>Shitney =Lady Gaga (when meh becomes tfeh) .Get into Mariah fusing r&b/pop and rap on her own, way back in 1990.
Prisoner is such an epic song. :lol:

Apoleb
Jan 2nd, 2012, 09:49 PM
This is because you are a pretentious gay and those albums do well by pretentious gay metrics.

Kate Bush: She's foreign and has a unique voice and is artistic and is certifiably crazy and barely anyone from the mainstream in the US has heard of her.
Janet: Claimed she intended it for a black audience so bonus cool points. Black people are cool to pretentious gays, almost as cool as foreigners. After Rhythm Nation she was much more mainstream pop.


I don't think Janet fits in with the "pretentious gay" group, but there lies exactly my pretentiousness. :oh:


If we use the vocal quality metric (utilized by bandfags):
Whitney>Mariah>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kate>GaGa>Britney>Janet>Madonna>Bjork


This is not true. Just because they are loud and have a big range doesn't mean they are better singers. I think Kate's clear and sensual tone is absolutely exquisite and her expressiveness is as good. Her range is also very impressive. Also Whitney got a lot better in mid 90s imo, when her power was mixed with better expression. On her first two albums she just overpowers the poor little hairs in your cochlea.

As for Bjork, I have to say she's not for everyone, but her voice is an acquired taste. It is so unbelievably earthy, that she actually reminds of me of Muslim prayer. Bjork's voice is the expression of Mother Nature.

If I rank them on singing/voice alone: Kate>Mariah>Whitney>Janet>Madonna>Gaga>Britney. Gaga is a good technical singer, but it's like a tasteless version of Christina Aguilera.

Hopefully I have started enough trouble for the thread to reach page 10.

ToopsTame
Jan 2nd, 2012, 10:01 PM
I don't think Janet fits in with the "pretentious gay" group, but there lies exactly my pretentiousness. :oh:

:oh:


This is not true. Just because they are loud and have a big range doesn't mean they are better singers. I think Kate's clear and sensual tone is absolutely exquisite and her expressiveness is as good. Her range is also very impressive. Also Whitney got a lot better in mid 90s imo, when her power was mixed with better expression. On her first two albums she just overpowers the poor little hairs in your cochlea.

As for Bjork, I have to say she's not for everyone, but her voice is an acquired taste. It is so unbelievably earthy, that she actually reminds of me of Muslim prayer. Bjork's voice is the expression of Mother Nature.

If I rank them on singing/voice alone: Kate>Mariah>Whitney>Janet>Madonna>Gaga>Britney. Gaga is a good technical singer, but it's like a tasteless version of Christina Aguilera.


I hate how Mariah taught everyone to sing with their hands but I have to give it up to her for vocal ability. Same with Whitney, even on the first album, her phrasing is annoying but her control and clarity are amazing. Those songs are very hard to sing for lesser mortals. I just re-listened to some of Kate's stuff. You're right, she's a good singer. Her songs weren't as demanding as Mariah's or Whitney's though.
Bjork is not a good singer. You can tell she isn't trained well. It doesn't hinder her because of her style of singing and the way she uses her voice, but it's a far cry from trained religious singers.
I agree on GaGa. Such a nice voice wasted on such unnecessary vocal acrobatics. Christina Aguilera is the tasteless version of Christina Aguilera.
Hopefully I have started enough trouble for the thread to reach page 10.

You're welcome.

delicatecutter
Jan 2nd, 2012, 10:53 PM
Get into Mariah fusing r&b/pop and rap on her own, way back in 1990.
Prisoner is such an epic song. :lol:

So is Sent From Up Above. :inlove:

moby
Jan 3rd, 2012, 12:45 AM
If we use the vocal quality metric (utilized by bandfags):
Whitney>Mariah>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kate>GaGa>Britney>Janet>Madonna>Bjork

If we use the lyrical quality metric:
They're all crap.Bjork has the best voice in this group. I like how she can do so much with it in terms of timbre and textures.
Kate Bush tends to be a bit shrill for me, but that's just my personal preference.
I am mostly not a fan of epic diva-belting; I would pick Stina Nordenstam over Mariah Carey any day.

Lyrically, Kate is the best. I don't think her lyrics are crap, ditto Bjork.

As for Kate, Wuthering Heights is obviously a climax in pop music. An insanely catchy tune about a 19th century novel = genius.Wuthering Heights was featured in my friend's class "Music Post-1978", which mainly featured classical composers, including Glass and even Ligeti.


So basically you define pop by exclusion, as what you don't deem too creative or "progressive". BTW, many consider Michael Jackson's Thriller to be progressive in both the music and the overall delivery. And as mentioned earlier, Control introduced Jack Swing - so pop in itself is not beyond progression.There are exceptions, clearly. In so far as we make the distinction between genres within popular music (see below**), then genre-crossing or hybridising seems to be precisely what makes the above albums progressive.

Pop should first and foremost be defined by its musical structure. We've had this discussion recently in another thread. And strong melodic hooks are VERY much integral to the pop formula. A lot of artists do get a lot more experimental and start involving cryptic lyrics and stranger arrangements, and imo that would qualify them to be pop**. But none of the albums I picked fit this rubric to start with. So I insist especially The Kick Inside is as pop as you can make it.

edit: here's my updated definition of pop music. At its very basis, pop music simply means accessible music to the masses. However, this is almost tautological and would be expected to vary from one culture to another, and from one time to another. So better to look at the characteristics that make music, pop music: song format with an emphasis on a repeated chorus, short duration (somewhat up to 7 minutes), a heavy reliance on the power of melody (pretty much the most important criterion), easily accessible lyrics (though this is much less stringent criteria as lyrics aren't that important in the accessibility of pop music). That's it. All of these albums are easily pop, and dare I say the artists in general are, but they drift slightly more, making them pop** later in their careers.This definition would correspond with definition of above-mentioned friend, who also classifies soul, R&B, alternative, rock, folk, country and even metal and rap under pop music. Basically, non-classical, non-traditional, commercial music.

Joana
Jan 3rd, 2012, 01:26 AM
Speaking of Wuthering Heights, I've never been able to endure more than 30 seconds of it. Probably the most annoying song ever.
Running Up That Hill is awesome, though.

moby
Jan 3rd, 2012, 01:32 AM
Speaking of Wuthering Heights, I've never been able to endure more than 30 seconds of it. Probably the most annoying song ever.
Running Up That Hill is awesome, though.Wuthering Heights is an amazing song! I think a lot of her catalogue has not aged that well because of the 80s over-synthed beats and aesthetics. I really liked the covers of those 80s songs though, like Placebo's Running Up That Hill and Futureheads's Hounds of Love.

Anyway, I never answered the original question. Bjork's Debut is my favourite album of the bunch (and she is also my favourite musician of the bunch). She's also the furthest from pop.

melodynelson
Jan 3rd, 2012, 01:43 AM
"Venus as a Boy" is one of the best pop songs any of these artists ever wrote.

delicatecutter
Jan 3rd, 2012, 02:31 AM
I don't see any of the songs on Debut as pop songs. :unsure: And I prefer Human Behavior and Crying to VaaB. I'm not much of a fan of VaaB. Defo one of my least favorite songs on Debut.

This Kate Bush thing is interesting. The Kick Inside is actually not even one of her best albums. I don't like the shrillness of her voice on that album either and I've never cared so much for Wuthering Heights either. But obvs it was a huge hit in the UK. I love songs more like Feel It because of how sensuous/sexual her vocal is. Or Oh to Be in Love. Moving is also great.

But to me, peak Kate is Never For Ever and The Dreaming. Those albums stand the test of time amazingly well and are masterpieces. Hounds of Love is remarkable but does sound dated. Everything after that is just incredibly inconsistent to me.

I will say I think Bjork's voice is amazing. And incredibly underrated. I just don't think of her or Kate as pop artists.

Oh. And. I'm not sure thunderous is synonymous with "influential". So I don't see how that has any relevance to the case. I took out the two artists who didn't belong and voted for what I felt was the best debut album. :shrug:

LoveFifteen
Jan 3rd, 2012, 04:55 AM
Sheepishly I have to admit I have never even heard a Kate Bush song in my entire life. After all of the staning for her in this thread, I decided to check her out on Spotify. I assumed she'd have to be pretty THUNDEROUS. I am listening to Wuthering Heights right now. :hysteric:

I find her singing so unpleasant and shrill. I'm literally laughing out loud as I listen to this crap.

:worship: @ Mariah! My first diva. I remember queening out to the album Music Box when I was 12. Mariah was the first person to give me LIFE. :hearts:

pierce85
Jan 3rd, 2012, 05:17 AM
Whatever, Madonna is the Queen of Pop indisputably. All the other ones can fight for the lesser titles

Apoleb
Jan 3rd, 2012, 06:52 AM
The shrillness on Wuthering Heights is totally intentional. :lol: It's a ghost that is singing.

There are exceptions, clearly. In so far as we make the distinction between genres within popular music (see below**), then genre-crossing or hybridising seems to be precisely what makes the above albums progressive.


I will say that I agree that most pop music tends to be very formulaic and not particularly visionary, but I don't think it's a defining characteristic. Wuthering Heights is actually a great example of that. Its pop qualities are not tangentional to it but at the heart of its appeal, and I think recognizing it as pop is very much part of what makes it great work. It's as immediate as any of trash pop (i.e Shitney), the references are totally clear, but it still captures a whole novel and a very strong moment. Also, the catchiness in itself is a bit conceptual - it's haunting like Cathy's ghost.

Anyway, for those who didn't notice yet, this is actually a Kate Bush worshipping thread. Janet was just the disguise.

ToopsTame
Jan 3rd, 2012, 07:21 AM
Oh honey, I can't wait to see what you'll do when you go through your Grace Jones phase. :oh:

dybbuk
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:19 AM
Where's Slutiana tho. He could outgay all of y'all with his Mariah stanning, and he says he's not isn't even gay

Slutiana
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:39 AM
Mariah wins because 2:28 in this video is greater than everyone else in this poll put together. Oh, and the singing isn't shabby either.
daDLg52sPcQ

Where's Slutiana tho. He could outgay all of y'all with his Mariah stanning, and he isn't even gay
Child, sit down. Don't hate on me because I have good taste.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2gxhe95.gif
Unlike you.

dybbuk
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:42 AM
Let us put Tuti's post in context. He thinks Jojo is currently the greatest singer in the business.

Beat
Jan 3rd, 2012, 10:00 AM
Bjork is not a good singer. You can tell she isn't trained well.

so she isn't good because she isn't trained well? she's been making music in different groups and in different styles since she was 12. what better training could there be?

i also think the whole technical aspect of singing is not important in pop music at all. people like david bowie or debbie harry would probably not even survive the first round of a casting show. but they ARE the perfect singers for the songs they sing.

I think a lot of her catalogue has not aged that well because of the 80s over-synthed beats and aesthetics.

couldn't disagree more. i think her early records sound as fresh and new as ever. the one record that has aged the worst (production-wise) is "the red shoes" from 1993 IMO.

Apoleb
Jan 3rd, 2012, 10:06 AM
Bjork defies technique. Who cares about technique when you have the result? (like Graf's forehand). IMO she's the most soulful singer in this group.

Slutiana
Jan 3rd, 2012, 01:21 PM
Get into Mariah fusing r&b/pop and rap on her own, way back in 1990.
Prisoner is such an epic song. :lol:
:lol: for real. The 'SEE YA' at the end always slays me.
Let us put Tuti's post in context. He thinks Jojo is currently the greatest singer in the business.
Of pop/RnB singers under 24, she's pretty much the only one with both great talent and musicianship regarding her voice. It's the tea, so sip it and shut up.

The Dawntreader
Jan 3rd, 2012, 01:29 PM
Bjork defies technique. Who cares about technique when you have the result? (like Graf's forehand). IMO she's the most soulful singer in this group.

Even technically, she's a marvel. 3 octave range.

homogenius
Jan 3rd, 2012, 05:08 PM
Bjork is not a good singer. You can tell she isn't trained well.



Hopefully she won't read this cause I heard she is not very patient when she has to deal with trollish act :oh:

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln0bhvTdvV1qd4j76o1_250.gif

LeRoy.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 05:27 PM
Mariah, Whitney could sing but now they are on par with the likes of Madonna, Janet, Britney, Gaga, Rihanna etc. Years of drinking and crack will take a toll on your voice.

The only real vocalists out there are Beyonce, Christina, Adele, Celine etc.

Flops like Bjork, Kate Bush (who is she ?) are irrelevant....:yawn:

Roookie
Jan 3rd, 2012, 05:28 PM
Speaking of Wuthering Heights, I've never been able to endure more than 30 seconds of it. Probably the most annoying song ever.
Running Up That Hill is awesome, though.

100% This.

Fuzzylogic
Jan 3rd, 2012, 05:55 PM
Well you know, there is that stereotype about which type of gays prefer which type of pop divas.

Babygays - Lady GaGa
Circuit Queens - Deborah Cox, Anastacia,
Artfags - Kate Bush, Bjork, Grace Jones, Cindy Lauper, Tori Amos, Fiona Apple
Urban Queens - Beyonce, Rihanna
Dramatic centre of attention Queens - Madonna, Whitney, Mariah, Beyonce
Southern Queens - Dolly Parton, Carrie Underwood
Tweakers & Twinks - Britney, Christina
Bohemian slobs who don't shower - Courtney Love
Band camp fags - Maria Callas, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday
Showtune Queens - Liza with a z and Patti LuPone
Lipstick lesbians - Ani DiFranco, Sarah Maclachlan
Old fashioned antique shoppers - Barbra, Cher
Thugs - Li'l Kim, Missy Elliot

:lol: Omg, stereotyping, but very funny. I hope all music related threads on this forum aren't like this- filled with pretentious, my taste is better than yours crap, starting with the OP.

LoveFifteen
Jan 3rd, 2012, 06:04 PM
I've just listened to about 30-40 Kate Bush songs on Spotify. Some of her songs are nice, but I find it painful to listen to her debut album. The voice is so high and shrill.

debopero
Jan 3rd, 2012, 06:07 PM
:lol: Omg, stereotyping, but very funny. I hope all music related threads on this forum aren't like this- filled with pretentious, my taste is better than yours crap, starting with the OP.

That's what they pretty much are :shrug: :lol: .

shap_half
Jan 3rd, 2012, 07:23 PM
Madonna's and Gaga's are the only ones which you could say really shaped pop for the years afterwards. People like Janet Jackson and Mariah were really only following the trends that were already in place and were never actually that big outside of the States anyway. Whitney only really hit her zenith more than 5 years into her career. Kate Bush and Bjork were probably the most creative, but hardly had a big impact on mainstream trends. Britney :spit:

I didn't want to get involved in this thread, because I know people tend to disregard Britney as much as they can, but to think that Britney's debut is :spit: is absolutely ludicrous. Check the numbers and read the receipts. You think Gaga's overblown histrionics would be viable if it weren't for Britney? That sagging trainwreck herself has claimed how much Britney inspired her growing up growing up.

And I'd really like to know how it is Gaga shaped shaped pop music? This woman is such a copycats, copying machines and cats should start charging for royalties.

Apoleb
Jan 3rd, 2012, 07:36 PM
I didn't want to get involved in this thread, because I know people tend to disregard Britney as much as they can, but to think that Britney's debut is :spit: is absolutely ludicrous. Check the numbers and read the receipts. You think Gaga's overblown histrionics would be viable if it weren't for Britney? That sagging trainwreck herself has claimed how much Britney inspired her growing up growing up.

And I'd really like to know how it is Gaga shaped shaped pop music? This woman is such a copycats, copying machines and cats should start charging for royalties.

Everyone should get involved.

How did Britney shape pop music other than inspiring a countless number of talentless hoes to attempt singing as a career? The teen pop sensation in reality picked up with the Spice Girls. They deserve most of the infamy,not even Britney.

$uricate
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:05 PM
I love Kate Bush, Bjork, Gaga and Britney.

I voted Bjork because Debut is a classic (mainly thanks to Nellee Hooper)

Optima
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:08 PM
Voted for Madonna, but wanted to vote for Kate too. Kate's influence is underrated, I'd say most musicians know who she is. James and the Cold Gun is one of my favorite songs of all time. Shoutout to Bjork too, Venus as a Boy is fucking lovely, as is the rest of the album.

new-york
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:21 PM
Mariah, Whitney could sing but now they are on par with the likes of Madonna, Janet, Britney, Gaga, Rihanna etc. Years of drinking and crack will take a toll on your voice.

The only real vocalists out there are Beyonce, Christina, Adele, Celine etc.

Flops like Bjork, Kate Bush (who is she ?) are irrelevant....:yawn:

First album.
Britney doesn't sing live, that's another category.
Wikip the relevance.

ToopsTame
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:05 PM
Everyone should get involved.

How did Britney shape pop music other than inspiring a countless number of talentless hoes to attempt singing as a career? The teen pop sensation in reality picked up with the Spice Girls. They deserve most of the infamy,not even Britney.

She's not talentless. She used to be a good dancer and still can entertain stadiums full of people. That's pretty much what's ever been asked of pop artists. She's a huge part of the zeitgeist of the 90's. You act like pop singers were all profound songwriting chanteuses before Britney, when in reality she was just the latest in the line of manufactured artists.

Apoleb
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:10 PM
She's not talentless. She used to be a good dancer and still can entertain stadiums full of people. That's pretty much what's ever been asked of pop artists. She's a huge part of the zeitgeist of the 90's. You act like pop singers were all profound songwriting chanteuses before Britney, when in reality she was just the latest in the line of manufactured artists.

She can't write, she can't sing, she can't produce. The other ones in this poll are at least talented musically, and yes that includes Janet. She can be a dancer in the videos of those other divas, for all I care.

ToopsTame
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:23 PM
She can't write, she can't sing, she can't produce. The other ones in this poll are at least talented musically, and yes that includes Janet. She can be a dancer in the videos of those other divas, for all I care.

Uh Janet and Madonna can't sing, write or produce either. Don't see how Britney is different in that respect.

John.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:40 PM
Janet Jackson gets my vote.

delicatecutter
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:48 PM
tWdHOm256N4

I love this song. 31 years old but timeless. :inlove:

Apoleb
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:54 PM
Kate Bush snatches more of your faves' wigs with some superb live performances from the debut:

9F5XHZ0NPGc&feature=related

oWiIFKfnZSQ

:worship:

Not only smart, poetic and imaginitive, but with the musicality to match anyone's.

melodynelson
Jan 3rd, 2012, 10:08 PM
Kate Bush is so overrated in every way imaginable, and I like her a lot even.

She peaked with The Dreaming, anyway.

SwingVolley93
Jan 3rd, 2012, 10:31 PM
Britney Spears. :)

ElusiveChanteuse
Jan 3rd, 2012, 11:19 PM
Mariah, Whitney could sing but now they are on par with the likes of Madonna, Janet, Britney, Gaga, Rihanna etc. Years of drinking and crack will take a toll on your voice.

The only real vocalists out there are Beyonce, Christina, Adele, Celine etc.

Flops like Bjork, Kate Bush (who is she ?) are irrelevant....:yawn:

:spit:
Xtina is also facing the same problem like Mariah faced back then. Celine now only sings slow songs with no high registers like she did back then and her higher registers sounds as nasal as ever and usually she won't try to go much with higher registers anymore.:oh:

WowWow
Jan 4th, 2012, 12:26 AM
Mariah, Whitney could sing but now they are on par with the likes of Madonna, Janet, Britney, Gaga, Rihanna etc. Years of drinking and crack will take a toll on your voice.

The only real vocalists out there are Beyonce, Christina, Adele, Celine etc.

Flops like Bjork, Kate Bush (who is she ?) are irrelevant....:yawn:

:haha:

Apoleb
Jan 4th, 2012, 08:35 PM
She peaked with The Dreaming, anyway.

I think her best songs are on Aerial. Particularly Mrs. Bartolozzi and A Coral Room. This is when the songs become a real work of art.

I'd take it that she could be overrated as a singer, but as a songwriter? No. Way. This is as good as pop songwriting can get. Many of the songs are forays into character analysis and look like mini-movies in your head, and I think she's been likened to a novelist a few times.

And I forgot to mention that she's also a learned and talented dancer. :worship: Basically, she's the superwoman of pop music.

Stamp Paid
Jan 4th, 2012, 08:56 PM
Uh Janet and Madonna can't sing, write or produce either. Don't see how Britney is different in that respect.
Janet has written the bulk of her recorded material.

Apoleb
Jan 4th, 2012, 09:02 PM
Janet has written the bulk of her recorded material.

I think she's a talented musician. I mean, when did Shitney ever do something like the backing vocals and the harmonization on some of the songs in Rhythm Nation. Also, Madonna has some pipes (and expressiveness to go with it). She's not a good technical singer, but she makes it up with other qualities. I would say Madge is even superior to Gaga in that department.

Stamp Paid
Jan 4th, 2012, 09:09 PM
I think she's a talented musician. I mean, when did Shitney ever do something like the backing vocals and the harmonization on some of the songs in Rhythm Nation. Also, Madonna has some pipes (and expressiveness to go with it). She's not a good technical singer, but she makes it up with other qualities. I would say Madge is even superior to Gaga in that department.Agreed. I actually like Britney and appreciate her for what she does. She makes has the perfect voice for pop, and she makes cute songs. But her work isn't and never has been an exemplar of artistry, creativity, and innovation (Blackout being the only potential exception).

Madonna and Janet on the other hand...

ToopsTame
Jan 4th, 2012, 10:11 PM
Agreed. I actually like Britney and appreciate her for what she does. She makes has the perfect voice for pop, and she makes cute songs. But her work isn't and never has been an exemplar of artistry, creativity, and innovation (Blackout being the only potential exception).

Madonna and Janet on the other hand...

I would say that Britney's work has never been elevated like Madonna's or Janet's is because of the poor quality of producers and lyricists she's too often worked with. Left to their own devices Madonna and Janet are quite capable of creating stinkers. Too much of Janet's latest material is just a mash up of repeating beats mixed in with her breathing heavily and talking about her hoo ha. Madonna, despite having a lived a life with so many interesting and revelatory experiences, still can't write much more than "come and sex me boy" songs. Madonna's been great at picking the right producers and Janet, for years, had the best backing team in the industry.

Stamp Paid
Jan 4th, 2012, 10:20 PM
I would say that Britney's work has never been elevated like Madonna's or Janet's is because of the poor quality of producers and lyricists she's too often worked with. Left to their own devices Madonna and Janet are quite capable of creating stinkers. Too much of Janet's latest material is just a mash up of repeating beats mixed in with her breathing heavily and talking about her hoo ha. Madonna, despite having a lived a life with so many interesting and revelatory experiences, still can't write much more than "come and sex me boy" songs. Madonna's been great at picking the right producers and Janet, for years, had the best backing team in the industry.I agree, the quality of her songwriters/producers combined with Britney's lack of autonomy in crafting her sound or her image place her below Janet and Madonna.

Meanwhile, Madonna and Janet have both hit a creative/artistic plateau (Janet since Discipline, Madonna since Hard Candy).

azdaja
Jan 4th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Madonna's been great at picking the right producers
which makes her goat :worship:

Apoleb
Feb 1st, 2012, 08:03 PM
Kate Bush is so overrated in every way imaginable, and I like her a lot even.

She peaked with The Dreaming, anyway.

I think her best songs are on Aerial. Particularly Mrs. Bartolozzi and A Coral Room. This is when the songs become a real work of art.

.

I will attempt to ignore again that ridiculous "overrated comment", just to highlight that The Dreaming has totally grown to be one of my favorite albums ever. :worship: Amazing avant-garde production that still feels experimental and never dated, with supreme intellectual and psychological depth. She is a genius.

delicatecutter
Feb 1st, 2012, 08:37 PM
Whatever. The Dreaming has nothing on Born to Die. Not a single lyric about video games or blue jeans to be found. Rubbish.

miffedmax
Feb 1st, 2012, 08:41 PM
Hmmm. Guess I'll go with the one with an actual working knowledge of music.

Kate by a mile and then some.

WowWow
Feb 1st, 2012, 09:29 PM
Lol. The way David Sedaris in his story The Birds described Kate, is exactly how I feel about her.
"It’s a no-win situation that’s made even worse when the lyrics are unintelligible, the voice a shriek embedded in noise"

ranfurly
Feb 1st, 2012, 09:32 PM
Maria Callas and Leontyne Price trumps all these local slags.

Mistress of Evil
Feb 1st, 2012, 09:41 PM
It nice to see that you have come across Kate Bush and appreciate her work so much. :hug: That said, she ain't everyone's cup of tea. She might be an amazingly talented musician and singer, but is nowhere near being the household name as the other options. Not much people outside of the UK have heard about her. As to me, I can hardly stand her voice, its too high-pitched, divine, unique for my superficial mess of a taste.

moby
Feb 1st, 2012, 10:01 PM
Kate's Bush? :oh:

I suggest you get out of there some time.

ToopsTame
Feb 2nd, 2012, 03:30 AM
Ray of Light has aged well (except for that trite Om Shanti :rolleyes: ). William Orbit :hearts:
UykEHO2p7uI

This thread needs more Kylie.

wf421JsG004

8NE7vZH4tv8

delicatecutter
Feb 2nd, 2012, 03:37 AM
I will attempt to ignore again that ridiculous "overrated comment", just to highlight that The Dreaming has totally grown to be one of my favorite albums ever. :worship: Amazing avant-garde production that still feels experimental and never dated, with supreme intellectual and psychological depth. She is a genius.

I hope a month from now you say how awesome Never for Ever is. Maybe the next month Lionheart. I love how you tried to be a Kate stan barely knowing her discography.

Apoleb
Feb 2nd, 2012, 05:45 AM
Lol. The way David Sedaris in his story The Birds described Kate, is exactly how I feel about her.
"It’s a no-win situation that’s made even worse when the lyrics are unintelligible, the voice a shriek embedded in noise"

It's really not Kate's problem that you or him can't wrap your heads around her lyrics. Nothing unintelligible about them. She's not Lady Gaga.

I hope a month from now you say how awesome Never for Ever is

:lol: Nowhere near as good as The Dreaming.

As to me, I can hardly stand her voice, its too high-pitched, divine, unique for my superficial mess of a taste.

Thank you. :worship:

Kate's Bush? :oh:

I suggest you get out of there some time

This is LeRoy copyrighted. Came in with one of his bad reps. I'm still not getting enough of it. :oh: It's so much better than Princess Fiona's anyway.

ToopsTame
Feb 2nd, 2012, 07:44 AM
What?:lol: Please name one song with that theme :lol:

You would have been better off talking about her basic rhyming schemes and repetitive phrases (illusion/confusion; hesitate/wait; fuzzy dreams etc).



Um, in Hard Candy alone:
Candy Shop - Eat me
Give it 2 me - Sex me quickly please
Heartbeat - "Dance" with me
Miles Away - Phone sex
4 minutes - How long her bfs usually last :oh:

etc. etc. Same old material. The music has been good but lyrically she isn't writing anything new. She was talking about all these things on her first album.

ToopsTame
Feb 2nd, 2012, 08:17 AM
:worship: I was completely unaware of these subtleties.

I feel like I need to re-examine my interpretations Kylie's latest album now too.

All the lovers - a paen to perseverance. You must practice lots before you reach the pinnacle, the incomparable, nirvana.
Get outta my way - clarion call to women in the workforce to shatter that glass ceiling.
Aphrodite - An epistemological analysis of the discourses between Euripides' characterization of godhood in Hippolytus and third wave feminism.

:hearts:

The Witch-king
Feb 2nd, 2012, 08:44 AM
:worship: I was completely unaware of these subtleties.

The trouble is that most of you TF posters don't actually listen to the lyrics in depth, but you seem to be learning well. ;)


I feel like I need to re-examine my interpretations Kylie's latest album now too.

All the lovers - a paen to perseverance. You must practice lots before you reach the pinnacle, the incomparable, nirvana.
Get outta my way - clarion call to women in the workforce to shatter that glass ceiling.
Aphrodite - An epistemological analysis of the discourses between Euripides' characterization of godhood in Hippolytus and third wave feminism.

:hearts:
:worship:. Still, those interpretations were rather obvious, don't you think?

Britney's recent commentary on female archetypes in 20th century European literatre impressed me in the depth of its analysis and slight esoterism.

"Hold It Against Me" is clearly about the antagonism towards strong, sexually aware female figures in French film noirs while "How I Roll" is about the contribution of women to the industrial age of Europe, with Britney using the invention of the wheel as a clever metaphor. "Criminal" is a critical analysis of the criminal justice system, from the perspective of a woman whose partner has been wrongly imprisoned.

Beat
Feb 2nd, 2012, 10:39 AM
Candy Shop - This song is about Madonna's lifelong dream to run a confectionery.

:lol:

Apoleb
Feb 7th, 2012, 11:27 AM
Kate has released some brilliant animation for 50 Words For Snow.

5JoPFIWOONU

KKPHA3_cBus

They give the songs more punch and feeling. It's really not weird and original for the sake of being weird and original. Pushing 50 and still shitting over all your faves.

The Witch-king
Feb 7th, 2012, 11:58 AM
Kate Bish pushed 50 to the side a long time ago.

melodynelson
Feb 7th, 2012, 12:16 PM
When I said she was so overrated, I only find a couple of her albums to be really consistent from start to finish and at the same time spectacular, those being The Dreaming and Never for Ever. Her debut is actually very good but it's not quite up to the standard of those two records. Hounds of Love never did much for me. And the other albums have moments but never reach the heights or consistency of her early 80s material, in my opinion. Though no, I haven't heard the Snowman album yet.

Apoleb
Feb 7th, 2012, 12:44 PM
When I said she was so overrated, I only find a couple of her albums to be really consistent from start to finish and at the same time spectacular, those being The Dreaming and Never for Ever. Her debut is actually very good but it's not quite up to the standard of those two records. Hounds of Love never did much for me. And the other albums have moments but never reach the heights or consistency of her early 80s material, in my opinion. Though no, I haven't heard the Snowman album yet.

Yes, I kinda agree with this, but you can't expect everything to be at the same level. Even The Dreaming has better songs than others, but even the "crap" songs are still really good. I think the debut, for a a freakin' 19 year old, is certainly spectacular in its musical and intellectual maturity. And I could never guess that a 23 year old made The Dreaming.

I think what sets her apart from her peers is how conceptual and thematically sophisticated her work is. Her songs aren't about some feelings one can have like 99% of what pop is, but she gets into depths of human psyche through story telling and intricate characters, and she does this in 4 minutes.

Snowman is a solid album, but not up there with the 80s work.

melodynelson
Feb 7th, 2012, 12:59 PM
Every artist has different expectations and standards. Kate unfortunately is one of those who set high standards for all the creative and artistic things she achieved, so when I hear something average like Sensual World or Aerial it doesn't do much, and I could do without listening to Hounds of Love again really.

And for exactly that reason is why I like Talking Heads so much. Gays tend to ignore them because David Byrne wasn't some diva, but lyrically they and Kate have a lot of similar paths and crossways taken, and that element is extended to the music, making it that much more interesting.

Even if I find her inconsistent, Kate Bush is amazing, and I'll leave this thread as the worship site that I found it as. I'm not worthy.

The Dawntreader
Feb 7th, 2012, 01:09 PM
Kate Bush makes the exterior world feel very much interior. Everything is insular and analysed with meticulous use of metaphor and symbolism. It's going below the surface, and that's not always a pleasant trip for the listener, but it's necessary.

Stamp Paid
Feb 7th, 2012, 06:24 PM
Kate has released some brilliant animation for 50 Words For Snow.

5JoPFIWOONU

KKPHA3_cBus

They give the songs more punch and feeling. It's really not weird and original for the sake of being weird and original. Pushing 50 and still shitting over all your faves.Beautiful music.

égalité
Feb 7th, 2012, 08:38 PM
Yes, I kinda agree with this, but you can't expect everything to be at the same level. Even The Dreaming has better songs than others, but even the "crap" songs are still really good. I think the debut, for a a freakin' 19 year old, is certainly spectacular in its musical and intellectual maturity. And I could never guess that a 23 year old made The Dreaming.

I think what sets her apart from her peers is how conceptual and thematically sophisticated her work is. Her songs aren't about some feelings one can have like 99% of what pop is, but she gets into depths of human psyche through story telling and intricate characters, and she does this in 4 minutes.

Snowman is a solid album, but not up there with the 80s work.

I just can't comprehend that. Writing a song like "Pull Out The Pin" at 23. :lol: The way she digs through such deep layers of human emotion on that album should be coming from someone with at least 50 years of life under her belt.

Apoleb
Feb 7th, 2012, 08:55 PM
I just can't comprehend that. Writing a song like "Pull Out The Pin" at 23. :lol: The way she digs through such deep layers of human emotion on that album should be coming from someone with at least 50 years of life under her belt.

I know (incidentally that's probably my favorite song on the album), and I'm especially WTF at Sat In Your Lap. Melding the psychology of scholarship with a bit of philosophy.. shouldn't you be on your 3rd postdoc to come up with that? I've come up across one interview in which she mentions she would have been a psychiatrist if not a musician, and it all makes sense now.

Ellen Dawson
Feb 7th, 2012, 10:29 PM
Old people. :facepalm:





:P

ToopsTame
Feb 8th, 2012, 01:28 AM
Not a solo act but I don't care, Debbie Harry is a diva.
m69_NwWQCYo

Steven.
Sep 16th, 2012, 03:31 PM
It nice to see that you have come across Kate Bush and appreciate her work so much. :hug: That said, she ain't everyone's cup of tea. She might be an amazingly talented musician and singer, but is nowhere near being the household name as the other options. Not much people outside of the UK have heard about her. As to me, I can hardly stand her voice, its too high-pitched, divine, unique for my superficial mess of a taste.

she's amazing! Her vocals is definitely heaps unique and makes her stand out amongst heaps of artists but yeah, it isn't for everyone. Her music in general is pretty unique and very deep, something I personally look for in music.

Kate's Bush? :oh:

I suggest you get out of there some time.

:hysteric: fucking dead

Sammo
Sep 16th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Kate's Bush? :oh:

I suggest you get out of there some time.

:spit: