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View Full Version : Would Dementieva have beaten Venus in the Wimbledon 09 final?


Barktra
Dec 28th, 2011, 03:51 AM
If Elena beat Serena in the semis and faced Venus in the final. Could she have been Wimbledon champion?

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 28th, 2011, 03:57 AM
Probably not. It's a Grand Slam final, Venus owns their H2H. even though she played below standard, Venus would have won her eighth slam that day.

Kworb
Dec 28th, 2011, 03:59 AM
Yes, definitely. An easy win for Elena.

lang26
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:00 AM
No Venus would won score be something like 7-5 6-4 Dementieva best chance was FO 2010

lang26
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:01 AM
I wish Elena would comeback one day through too win a slam

rimon
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:09 AM
Probably not. It's a Grand Slam final, Venus owns their H2H. even though she played below standard, Venus would have won her eighth slam that day.

I agree with this. Venus was a tougher match-up for Elena than Serena was (9-3 and 7-5 respectively in H-2-H). Although, Serena beat Venus pretty easily in the final, and was in overall better form that tournament. We'll never know for sure though. This thread really needs a 'hard to say' option. I voted no, but would have voted for that were it there.

Njay16
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:14 AM
I agree with this. Venus was a tougher match-up for Elena than Serena was (9-3 and 7-5 respectively in H-2-H). Although, Serena beat Venus pretty easily in the final, and was in overall better form that tournament. We'll never know for sure though. This thread really needs a 'hard to say' option. I voted no, but would have voted for that were it there.

Venus was in much better form throughout that tournament until the final IMO. She played miles better than she did in her title runs in 07' & 08'. I just watched the Serena/Dementieva highlights last night, and was just asking myself this same question. I still think Vee would have gotten the edge, but I think it Would have been something like 6-1 6-7(5) 6-2.

KBlade
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:21 AM
Definitely Venus. Despite being over-powered by Serena, she absolutely crushed Safina in the previous round and was moving well when required despite her strapping. With the head to head in Venus's favour, and the fact that Dementieva's mentality in a slam final would have been questionable at best, I think Venus would have taken it.

Barktra
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:28 AM
I think Elena could have made a match of it in my opinion. She did push Venus in the second set of their semi in 08 and Elena would have been much better than she was in 08. I think if Elena was mentally there i actually think she could have beaten Venus, i might be crazy, but I do.

M.P
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:31 AM
i think there is a chance...she beat her in YEC in 2009, she is the underdog against Venus in Wimbledon for sure..so she may play her best... you never know about Lena through

Spring Pools
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:36 AM
Lena would have gone up 6-0 5-0 40-0 and then choked it away

Noctis
Dec 28th, 2011, 05:05 AM
She lost to Serena, no would or could.

BlueTrees
Dec 28th, 2011, 05:23 AM
Nope. Once a choker, always a choker. :wavey:

Henpova
Dec 28th, 2011, 05:40 AM
I think she very much could. So I am going to say yes. She was play on par with a inform Serena and would of won the Semifinal match if she would of just hit into the open court on match point.

Venus was not playing all that great in the final and Serena totally wiped the court with her. So even though Serena is a better match up for Elena than Venus. I still think she was playing so great in that 2 weeks that I believe she would of worn like 75 64..

Mistress of Evil
Dec 28th, 2011, 06:23 AM
Goddess Lenochka would have won the Holy Grail of tennis. :crying2:

ExtremespeedX
Dec 28th, 2011, 06:28 AM
Lol. No.

young_gunner913
Dec 28th, 2011, 06:34 AM
Not a chance. Venus would've smoked her. Elena was a tougher match up for Serena than she was for Venus.

ElusiveChanteuse
Dec 28th, 2011, 06:53 AM
Russians are usually :silly: when it comes to a major final.:oh: That's why Russians only win the big ones bar Sharapova when their final opponents are Russians.:oh: E.g: Lena d. Safina for Olympic gold, Sveta d. Lena in USO and d. Safina in RG, Myskina d. Lena in RG.:oh:

Steven.
Dec 28th, 2011, 07:03 AM
Her best chance was RG10. She should've beaten Fran, but was injured. And then came to the final, where Stosur would be the favourite to win, which would further fuck up this already-headcase-Australian even more, and where Lena would have the match-up advantage.

Meanwhile, Venus isn't a headcase, and has the match-up advantage over Lena. That wouldn't have ended well.

aloeball
Dec 28th, 2011, 07:52 AM
What?? If I recall Venus was quite hindered by injury. Serena was playing easy on her, like, wth? Serena could have won that with a better scoreline.

I wouldn't rule out a win for Elena, yes, she's a choker but Venus' was quite injured so who knows.

And yes, I agree her best chance was RG10' - I was totally devastated for her. But part of the sport and being a champion is being fit enough to compete - it's not just about your game.

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:04 AM
http://www.chron.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=1161360&width=628&height=471
Venus Williams waves to the crowd after defeating Russian Elena Dementieva in their semifinal match Saturday at the Bank of the West Classic in Stanford, Calif. Williams won the match 6-0, 6-1. Photo: Getty Images, Ezra Shaw / HC

STANFORD, Calif. — Second-seeded Venus Williams was at the top of her game as she advanced to the finals of the Bank of the West Classic, beating third-seeded Elena Dementieva 6-0, 6-1 on Saturday in a match that lasted just over an hour.

The third-ranked Williams will be seeking her third title at Stanford . Williams has not won an outdoor U.S. hardcourt tournament since 2002.

She will face France's Marion Bartoli, who beat Australia's Samantha Stosur in the late semifinal match.

Williams, teamed with sister Serena, also advanced to the doubles final.

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=386393 ([2] Venus Williams def. [3] Elena Dementieva 60 61)

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:05 AM
Venus routs Dementieva to reach Stanford final

The American dropped just one game as the Russian was blown away, setting up a showdown with Marion Bartoli

Venus Williams will meet Marion Bartoli in the final of the Bank of the West Classic after routing Elena Dementieva 6-0 6-1.

Bartoli won a roller-coaster match against Samantha Stosur 6-3 1-6 6-1 to set up a repeat of the 2007 Wimbledon final.

Dementieva was never in the match as Williams ensured she couldn’t settle on serve.

The American dumped five double faults of her own, but broke the Russian five times as her old serving demons returned with a vengeance. A 43% first-serve percentage proved terminal as Williams crushed the Dementieva second serve.

“I raised my level on important points,” said Williams. “Things really went well for me on court today.”

Dementieva’s early season form looked to have returned as she pushed Serena to match point in their Wimbledon semi-final, but she was no match for her rejuvenated older sister in Stanford.

“She was just too good from the baseline,” admitted Dementieva. “I was always in trouble out there.”

Williams’ victory over Dementieva is her sixth in succession over the Russian.

In the other semi-final, Bartoli needed two hours to eventually beat Stosur in the pair’s second meeting in four seasons.

After breaking in the first game of the match to seal the first set, the Frenchwoman lost her way in the second as Stosur stormed back to level the match with a pair of breaks.

But Bartoli wrested control of the third set to run out the victory despite ten aces from the Australian.

The French winner has now reached back-to-back Stanford finals at the venue, having lost to Canadian Aleksandra Wozniak last year – and her chances don’t look much better against an inspired Williams this time around.

Venus hammered Bartoli in straight sets when they played for the Championships title two years ago.
http://www.tennishead.net/on-tour/match-reports/424042/venus_routs_dementieva_to_reach_stanford_final.htm l

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:06 AM
9hCrlVsAPhg

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:07 AM
KY1u6tCRB6s

doomsday
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:07 AM
:lol:

doomsday
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:08 AM
KY1u6tCRB6s

:facepalm:

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:08 AM
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The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:08 AM
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The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:09 AM
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The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:10 AM
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The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:10 AM
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The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:11 AM
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The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:11 AM
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The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:11 AM
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The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:12 AM
DpkRM4NcygI

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:14 AM
O...kay.

claypova
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:18 AM
YEA OKAY WE GET IT, ELENA WOULDN'T HAVE WON jeez :facepalm::hysteric:

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:22 AM
KzYC6CdRLf8

Elenarulez
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:22 AM
-.-

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:23 AM
nMCD1jXxq08

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:24 AM
cLLjV6baQhg

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:24 AM
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The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:25 AM
AMNPFKr9XiQ

The Witch-king
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:26 AM
1LhR-pzQULU

doomsday
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:27 AM
You reached 10 000 posts now you can stop.

hankqq
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:41 AM
No.
Dementieva is easily the most overrated player on this forum ever :lol:

Lord Choc Ice
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:43 AM
No, Vee would've won.

Holdsworth
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:57 AM
Lol.. Of course, not. Venus would have won easily. Not even a contest.

Steven.
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:58 AM
omg dying. what the fuck happened itt? :hysteric:

Maddox
Dec 28th, 2011, 10:26 AM
Venus would have won her 8th title. Venus was playing way better tennis on the road to the final than she did in 2008.
She then destroyed Elena in Stanford 6-0 6-1 a few weeks later

bandabou
Dec 28th, 2011, 11:42 AM
Never..Vee is just a terrible match-up for Elena.

Sombrerero loco
Dec 28th, 2011, 11:44 AM
yes.she is a goddess

BuTtErFrEnA
Dec 28th, 2011, 12:02 PM
nah

Battiv
Dec 28th, 2011, 12:37 PM
We can't know what there is in a mind of a player. Dementieva was better than that venus, but she has always been fragile.

miffedmax
Dec 28th, 2011, 01:07 PM
Venus was hurt and out of gas. I think her knee was in much worse shape than she let on and Lena would have won. Probably not as decisively as Serena, and with some shaky moments due to her headcasiness, but Venus was about 50%.

Lena's bangs.

VishaalMaria
Dec 28th, 2011, 01:17 PM
No she wouldn't have.

Serena and Venus are different players.

Serena works the point more and engages herself in long rallies with Elena.

Venus is a first strike player. There's a reason why the head to head is 9-3.

atominside
Dec 28th, 2011, 01:20 PM
No she wouldn't have.

Serena and Venus are different players.

Serena works the point more and engages herself in long rallies with Elena.

Venus is a first strike player. There's a reason why the head to head is 9-3.

:yeah: agree

ExXotikal
Dec 28th, 2011, 01:58 PM
Absolutely not. And you need to stop giving free puntos to this irrelevant broad.
On top of being a basic bish, Elena was one of Uranus's most faithful bottom bishes.


http://i40.tinypic.com/faodwj.gif[/CLOSETHREAD]

Kairi
Dec 28th, 2011, 02:38 PM
Hell no...its Elena in a GS final on grass....against Venus of all people..might have been somewhat close, but I'd still give Venus the edge, something like 6-4 6-2

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 28th, 2011, 02:49 PM
IIRC the H2H is 8-2 in favor of Venus, not including Fed Cup and Hong Kong exho. That's 6-2 on Hard, 1-0 Clay, 1-0 Grass. I'm sure in SOME of those meetings Venus wasn't in the best shape (Stanford 09 probably, off the top of my head) but she was just plain a bad match-up for Lena on all surfaces. And it's not like some of Venus's other lop-sided H2Hs where she got most of her wins in her peak, those meetings were spread out once a year almost every year, with Lena winning her two matches in 04, and 06 if I'm not mistaken.

VishaalMaria
Dec 28th, 2011, 02:53 PM
IIRC the H2H is 8-2 in favor of Venus, not including Fed Cup and Hong Kong exho. That's 6-2 on Hard, 1-0 Clay, 1-0 Grass. I'm sure in SOME of those meetings Venus wasn't in the best shape (Stanford 09 probably, off the top of my head) but she was just plain a bad match-up for Lena on all surfaces. And it's not like some of Venus's other lop-sided H2Hs where she got most of her wins in her peak, those meetings were spread out once a year almost every year, with Lena winning her two matches in 04, and 06 if I'm not mistaken.

She won against Venus when Venus was up a set and 4-1 at Doha 2009.

She won against Venus when Venus was match point up in Miami in 2004.

She won against Venus 7-6 (5) in the third back in 2001.

So even in her wins, it was never comprehensive.

TheHangover
Dec 28th, 2011, 02:56 PM
yes venus was injured in the final and dementieva almost beated serena so i think yes

Uranium
Dec 28th, 2011, 03:06 PM
She won against Venus when Venus was up a set and 4-1 at Doha 2009.

She won against Venus when Venus was match point up in Miami in 2004.

She won against Venus 7-6 (5) in the third back in 2001.

So even in her wins, it was never comprehensive.

This win was in 1999 Fed Cup Final, where Venus also had a match point. But yes, the three times Elena beat Venus they were incredibly tight matches where Elena barely scrapes through.

miffedmax
Dec 28th, 2011, 03:44 PM
Healthy, there's no way Vee loses.

But Vee was hurt and played like hammered dogshit in the actual final. There's no such thing as a sure thing with Lena, given that she could have conceivably doublefaulted 40 times or something, but that would have definitely been her best shot at Vee in a big time match.

By the second set Vee was just waving her racket at some of Ree's shots, and I'm not sure she would have fared any better against Lena, who was playing pretty well herself that tournament and had a lot of confidence.

Lena's bangs.

Break My Rapture
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:07 PM
That final wouldn't have lasted an hour judging by Dementieva's mental fortitude and her match-up problems with Vinas. I'm pretty sure the first set would be something like 6-1.

Break My Rapture
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:09 PM
Absolutely not. And you need to stop giving free puntos to this irrelevant broad.
On top of being a basic bish, Elena was one of Uranus's most faithful bottom bishes.


http://i40.tinypic.com/faodwj.gif[/CLOSETHREAD]
Best poster ever. :crying2:

shoryuken
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:13 PM
Dementieva winning at a GS Final? :lol:

Matt01
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:28 PM
IIRC the H2H is 8-2 in favor of Venus, not including Fed Cup and Hong Kong exho. That's 6-2 on Hard, 1-0 Clay, 1-0 Grass. I'm sure in SOME of those meetings Venus wasn't in the best shape (Stanford 09 probably, off the top of my head) but she was just plain a bad match-up for Lena on all surfaces.


Venus won that match 6:0, 6:1. What exactly makes you think that Venus wasn't in her best shape?

melodynelson
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:40 PM
Threads about what Dementieva could or would have done depress me immensely. She's retired, she flopped the passing shot despite passing Serena with ease all match and every other match they played since 2007, and didn't play the F.

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Venus won that match 6:0, 6:1. What exactly makes you think that Venus wasn't in her best shape?

I didn't watch any of the 2009 Summer HC events, so I cant comment on how high her level was in that match versus how low Elena's probably was, but I just know that the last time I saw Venus heading into the US Open(the 2009 Wimbledon final,) her legs were heavily taped and she appeared to be at 50%. Fast forward to the US Open and she still had her legs taped and still didn't look to be in good form :shrug:

The Dawntreader
Dec 28th, 2011, 07:09 PM
Who knows, but Venus was serving well enough in that final to in theory beat Dementieva. Venus played one bad service game in the final, and then was served off court by Serena, whose serve was unstoppable.

Dementieva wouldn't have had that luxury, and given the surface and the innate bad match-up, she would've been up against it.

People forget how badly Dementieva played in Slam finals too.

young_gunner913
Dec 28th, 2011, 07:24 PM
Healthy, there's no way Vee loses.

But Vee was hurt and played like hammered dogshit in the actual final. There's no such thing as a sure thing with Lena, given that she could have conceivably doublefaulted 40 times or something, but that would have definitely been her best shot at Vee in a big time match.

By the second set Vee was just waving her racket at some of Ree's shots, and I'm not sure she would have fared any better against Lena, who was playing pretty well herself that tournament and had a lot of confidence.

Lena's bangs.

That's the thing, Elena could play with tons of confidence against Serena because she knew that she could trouble Serena. Against Venus, it seemed that Elena was content in knowing that Venus would most likely trounce her. The first set of the women's final was a servefest, Elena wouldn't have been able to hang in even though she was serving very well for her standards that fortnight.

dsanders06
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:21 PM
Is this thread a joke? :spit:

As I said in another thread recently, it's for some reason been completely forgotten that the only reason that Dementieva's match against Serena at that tournament was so competitive was because the grass was very dry due to a heatwave, which meant that it was bouncing a lot higher than usual (the BBC graphics department showed on that day the bounce was near-identical to the bounce at the US Open)...when the grass bounces at it's usual low level, Dementieva simply couldn't play her counter-punching game effectively. And the bounce was nearer to normal by Finals Weekend after it had cooled down a bit (Federer and Roddick wouldn't've been able to smash the Aces record if it hadn't done), so that combined with the fact Venus was a tougher match-up for her anyway means that Venus would've smoked her something like 6-0 6-2. And I don't actually believe Venus was that injured or feeling very ill with Sjogren's on the day of the final anyway ... she actually played pretty decently in the first set, it was only after Serena won the first that she melted down, which tbh was probably just because of the headcaseyness that crept in for Venus in later years... but it would've been hard even for Venus to out-headcase Elena in a Slam final.

Even though clay was probably her worst surface, RG 2010 is most certainly Dementieva's missed opportunity outside of her 2004 finals ... Tbh, I still feel she gave up a bit too easily in that semifinal - even with her injury, she'd managed to make the first set extremely competitive, and very well might've edged it if she'd given it a go, then who knows what would've happened in the final. Obviously there's no doubt she was seriously injured, but I can't help thinking someone with a real champion's mentality would've seen an opportunity like that and said to themselves "even if I hurt myself so bad that I can never play another tournament again, I'm sure as hell not leaving here without that trophy".

iva_ds87
Dec 28th, 2011, 09:26 PM
The first set of the women's final was a servefest, Elena wouldn't have been able to hang in even though she was serving very well for her standards that fortnight.

True, but remember that Lena handled Serena's bomb-like serving in the SF very well. Serena served 20 aces in that match. Lena is a great returner, Venus's serve wouldn't have posed as much threat as her cross-court backhand.

MrSerenaWilliams
Dec 28th, 2011, 11:36 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UcF1Et2A30c/TMQhf6EkBII/AAAAAAAACZE/evcW8tCkg64/s400/no_fucking_way.jpg

Smitten
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:28 AM
Probably.