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View Full Version : Who's groundstrokes have more power? Peak JJ or late 2010-mid 2011 Caro?


effedcamel
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:26 AM
Curious to know what you guys think :confused:

claypova
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:28 AM
jj

Potato
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:31 AM
JJ in general. Her more compact technique off the forehand compared to wozniackis ridiculous grip and follow throug has more power on paper and in action. Backhand is obviously flatter and stronger.

Steven.
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:34 AM
is this a joke? Peak Jaja was such a joy to watch and is one of the best counter punchers in recent years, behind only Kim.

Mikey.
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:37 AM
Hmmm I think I'd say Caro has slightly more raw "power", however Jelena has better timing and is better at redirecting the pace of other players.

atominside
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:47 AM
Hmmm I think I'd say Caro has slightly more raw "power", however Jelena has better timing and is better at redirecting the pace of other players.

:confused:

Mikey.
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:54 AM
:confused:

I used quotation marks for a reason. ;)

Yoncé
Dec 24th, 2011, 07:46 AM
Peak JJ is so much better than anything Caro has been able to produce

Holdsworth
Dec 24th, 2011, 08:44 AM
Another ridiculous poll :lol:

InsideOut.
Dec 24th, 2011, 10:06 AM
h5XQ2k0vhTM&feature=related

Enough said.

Sombrerero loco
Dec 24th, 2011, 10:14 AM
caro

Miss Amor
Dec 24th, 2011, 11:00 AM
Caro is a big girl and can play offensive and bully (not through flat hitting) her opponents if they are ranked low enough.

cowsonice
Dec 24th, 2011, 11:05 AM
h5XQ2k0vhTM&feature=related

Enough said.

What does it say/mean? :shrug:

Break My Rapture
Dec 24th, 2011, 11:38 AM
Hmmm I think I'd say Caro has slightly more raw "power", however Jelena has better timing and is better at redirecting the pace of other players.
I agree with this. Peak Wozniacki hits a heavier ball on her BH though.

cn ireland
Dec 24th, 2011, 12:10 PM
Without a doubt, it has to be Peak JJ!

Keegan
Dec 24th, 2011, 12:14 PM
Wasn't Woz in her early career a little bit more powerful? But late 2010-mid 2011 Caro was still quite a slow player, whereas JJ would step into the court and pound those BHDTLs. Caro doesn't do that so much, only occasionally.

J4m3ka
Dec 24th, 2011, 12:21 PM
is this a joke? Peak Jaja was such a joy to watch and is one of the best counter punchers in recent years, behind only Kim.

All of this. I think people often overlook how good the Empress actually was during her peak, probably because at the time she got the brunt of being ranked 1 without a Slam. In hindsight with Sunshine dominating the rankings it makes you realise that Jelena at #1 wasn't actually that bad.

Both players are more solid off their BH wing, but Empress's BH at her best was simply world class. JJ also turned her relatively weak FH into a decent shot during her peak, with which she could change direction and generate at least a bit of her own pace, whilst Wozniacki's FH is one of the most useless shots in the top 10.

Steven.
Dec 24th, 2011, 01:55 PM
All of this. I think people often overlook how good the Empress actually was during her peak, probably because at the time she got the brunt of being ranked 1 without a Slam. In hindsight with Sunshine dominating the rankings it makes you realise that Jelena at #1 wasn't actually that bad.

Both players are more solid off their BH wing, but Empress's BH at her best was simply world class. JJ also turned her relatively weak FH into a decent shot during her peak, with which she could change direction and generate at least a bit of her own pace, whilst Wozniacki's FH is one of the most useless shots in the top 10.

That's exactly my point. Jelena at her peak had a solid forehand. It wasn't a liability like many people would think. She had quite good control on it, hence her ability to redirect very well on that wing. As a result, she was able to score quite a few forehand winners down the line per match (not fluke ones like Wozniacki would get every now and then - Jelena actually goes for it to score a winner rather than looping the ball back in cross court every time).

Her backhand was world class. Her ability to hit a backhand down-the-line at will, even while on the defensive, was one of the charms of her games. Not just that though, she had SO much control on her backhand that she could just smack it as hard as she wants without having to worry about it breaking down.

Caroline could have more raw power, but Jaja's ability as a counter-puncher far surpasses Caroline's. Jaja has more net power than Caroline does.

Slutiana
Dec 24th, 2011, 02:08 PM
All of this. I think people often overlook how good the Empress actually was during her peak, probably because at the time she got the brunt of being ranked 1 without a Slam. In hindsight with Sunshine dominating the rankings it makes you realise that Jelena at #1 wasn't actually that bad.

Both players are more solid off their BH wing, but Empress's BH at her best was simply world class. JJ also turned her relatively weak FH into a decent shot during her peak, with which she could change direction and generate at least a bit of her own pace, whilst Wozniacki's FH is one of the most useless shots in the top 10.
Pretty much. I will never understand the comparisons between Jelena and Borz.

At her peak, Jelena was playing with consistent aggression - moving the ball around expertly and opening up the court until she could pull the trigger with her backhand down the line. She didn't posess much raw power, but the power she did have was effortless, flowing and she used her opponents' pace so well. Her lows over the last 18 months have been because she has been so, so passive.

In complete contrast, Wozniacki rose to #1 by standing far behind the baseline and doing nothing but grinding, and her poor form in the second half of 2011 has been the result of her listening to her critics and playing a gamestyle that she can't play. The few times she has been successful while playing more aggressive than usual, it's clearly not sustainable because unlike Jelena, her aggression just so forced and unnatural. Her forehand technique completely falls apart when she attempts to be aggressive, and even on her BH she often awkwardly throws her body sideways in an attempt to generate some power.

She's just completely out of her comfort zone when she has to be aggressive for more than a handful of points in a match, and I doubt she'll ever be comfortable with it.

brickhousesupporter
Dec 24th, 2011, 02:35 PM
The probelm for Jelena is that her peak only lasted at most 3 months, then nothing.

Optima
Dec 24th, 2011, 03:10 PM
The probelm for Jelena is that her peak only lasted at most 3 months, then nothing.

It was about 2 years, and then flashes of it from 2009 to 2010.

Jane Lane
Dec 24th, 2011, 04:00 PM
JJ in general. Her more compact technique off the forehand compared to wozniackis ridiculous grip and follow throug has more power on paper and in action. Backhand is obviously flatter and stronger.

This.

is this a joke? Peak Jaja was such a joy to watch and is one of the best counter punchers in recent years, behind only Kim.

And this.

bandabou
Dec 24th, 2011, 05:16 PM
JJ of course...Caro for such a big girl hits ridiculously short most of the time.

dsanders06
Dec 24th, 2011, 05:18 PM
Probably Jankovic...but I love the revisionist history that "peak JJ" was an aggressive player :lol: She simply played a better version of Wozniacki's game, just getting ball after ball back defensively for the most part. She could hit really clean backhands down the line when she had it lined up and was in position of course, but her backhand cross-court or from defensive positions was nothing special at all.

RobinT83
Dec 24th, 2011, 05:40 PM
Jankovic obviously, better forehand even if it's an awful shot technically and smoother backhand than Wozniacki's


This.



And this.


I have the feeling that you understand nothing about tennis but you say "This", "And This" only cause' you hate Wozniacki and that Jankovic is one of your faves :lol:


Merry Christmas :bigwave:

Steven.
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:37 PM
Probably Jankovic...but I love the revisionist history that "peak JJ" was an aggressive player :lol: She simply played a better version of Wozniacki's game, just getting ball after ball back defensively for the most part. She could hit really clean backhands down the line when she had it lined up and was in position of course, but her backhand cross-court or from defensive positions was nothing special at all.

Nobody is claiming that she was an offensive player at all, if that is what youre saying.

JaJa was always a counter puncher first and foremost, using her ability to defend and redirect pace as a weapon. She didn't just wait for the points to be gifted so in that sense she was aggressive, but obviously with a defensive style of play you wouldn't be killing points off instantly like Serena or Maria would - that's a different type of aggression.

The special thing about Jankovic's backhand is her ability to create openings with it when combined with her immaculate defense, as well as effortlessly striking the ball down the line. Also, if you read my previous post you'll realise that people underrate her forehand at her peak too. It's nothing amazing and still quite loopy and technically disadvantageous, but it was at least reliable and Jankovic was capable with using that wing as a weapon and to her advantage.

Dominic
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:38 PM
Jankovic obviously, better forehand even if it's an awful shot technically

JJ's forehand is definitely not awful technically, it just lacks power. But she can still hit winners with it, as opposed to Crapniacki.

Anabelcroft
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:59 PM
Not even close...JJ

effedcamel
Dec 24th, 2011, 08:23 PM
is this a joke? Peak Jaja was such a joy to watch and is one of the best counter punchers in recent years, behind only Kim.

I don't get why this is so one-sided nor why you think this is a joke...

Your answering a question I didn't ask. I wasn't asking whether JJ's peak groundstrokes and game were more effective than Caro's because we already know the answer to that. I'm strictly asking who has more power on their strokes and I'm not drawing any comparisons between their games at all other than power.

JCTennisFan
Dec 24th, 2011, 08:24 PM
This isnt even close.... its Jankovic without a doubt. Jankovic was a very well-rounded player at her peak.... being able to go offensive, play defense, and turn defensive situations into offensive ones as well. Her BH (at peak) was the best BH I think ive seen in recent times. She could change direction and suprise her opponents better than anyone Ive seen since possibly Evert. Her Forehand, also like Evert, was a funky looking but effective shot which was able to hold up under pressure.

In comparison, Wozniacki has a nice but less effective BH and a near useless FH when under pressure. Woz can play defense better than Janko could but she cannot play offense or turn defense to offense like Jankovic at her best.

Most importantly, atleast to me, is the fact that Wozniacki has lost substantial amounts of venom in her groundgame since 2008. She actually used to be able to hit the ball relatively hard, and the closest that Jankovic and Wozniacki were in power was probably around 08/09. Since then, Wozniacki has lost a noticable amount of pace off the ground, which is a very bad sign in my opinion. Jankovic on the other hand has become a headcase (once again).

JCTennisFan
Dec 24th, 2011, 08:41 PM
Probably Jankovic...but I love the revisionist history that "peak JJ" was an aggressive player :lol: She simply played a better version of Wozniacki's game, just getting ball after ball back defensively for the most part. She could hit really clean backhands down the line when she had it lined up and was in position of course, but her backhand cross-court or from defensive positions was nothing special at all.

I cant agree with you on this. Jankovic at peak was not a purely defensive player like Wozniacki. At her best Jelena was able to actually slug it out against the biggest hitters from the baseline... Wozniacki comparatively has virtually no ability to take control of the baseline against the likes of Serena, Kim, Stosur, etc when hey are hitting hard and effective. Watch the 08 AO match between Janko and Serena.... thats a level of aggression and shotmaking that Wozniacki simply cannot pull off (or atleast hasnt been able to up until this point).

In all honesty I think that Jankovic's biggest problem is that she has allowed doubt and skeptism of herself to creep into her mentality. She defeated Serena at the AO in 08 and faced her again in the F of the US open but is defeated in two tight sets. That defeat in my opinion derailed Jankovic's gameplan and career direction.Soon after she started trying to beef up her game which had disasterous results and now she is mentally not what she once was.

If she had not wavered mentally and simply accepted the fact that she was outplayed by Serena that day then maybe she wouldnt have tried to venture so far away from the gamestyle that made her great. Even though she has not tried this "beefed up" game for roughly 2-3 years the momentum she lost mentally from changing tactics at such a crucial point in her career has been something that she has not been able to regain.

effedcamel
Dec 24th, 2011, 08:42 PM
This isnt even close.... its Jankovic without a doubt. Jankovic was a very well-rounded player at her peak.... being able to go offensive, play defense, and turn defensive situations into offensive ones as well. Her BH (at peak) was the best BH I think ive seen in recent times. She could change direction and suprise her opponents better than anyone Ive seen since possibly Evert. Her Forehand, also like Evert, was a funky looking but effective shot which was able to hold up under pressure.

In comparison, Wozniacki has a nice but less effective BH and a near useless FH when under pressure. Woz can play defense better than Janko could but she cannot play offense or turn defense to offense like Jankovic at her best.

Most importantly, atleast to me, is the fact that Wozniacki has lost substantial amounts of venom in her groundgame since 2008. She actually used to be able to hit the ball relatively hard, and the closest that Jankovic and Wozniacki were in power was probably around 08/09. Since then, Wozniacki has lost a noticable amount of pace off the ground, which is a very bad sign in my opinion. Jankovic on the other hand has become a headcase (once again).

During her peak, all of Jankovic's shots were very effective and fairly well struck (even with her wonky FH technique), I get that. She was also very good at using opponents' pace to boost her lack of power, something that Caro has absolutely no clue how to do really (especially off the FH).

I guess I should've phrased my question as: If someone is just feeding balls up the middle of the court with no pace to peak JJ and late 2010-mid 2011 Caro, who would produce the more powerful shots?

I already understand that peak JJ is a far more versatile player with her strokes, but having not seen either of them live, I wanted to get this groups' opinion on their weight and pace of shot NOT effectiveness.

JCTennisFan
Dec 24th, 2011, 08:50 PM
During her peak, all of Jankovic's shots were very effective and fairly well struck (even with her wonky FH technique), I get that. She was also very good at using opponents' pace to boost her lack of power, something that Caro has absolutely no clue how to do really (especially off the FH).

I guess I should've phrased my question as: If someone is just feeding balls up the middle of the court with no pace to peak JJ and late 2010-mid 2011 Caro, who would produce the more powerful shots?

I already understand that peak JJ is a far more versatile player with her strokes, but having not seen either of them live, I wanted to get this groups' opinion on their weight and pace of shot NOT effectiveness.

Jankovic. At her best she produced more of her own power (especially off of the FH wing) than Wozniacki. On top of that Jankovic hit the ball earlier, robbing her opponent of more time ala Hingis which further strengthened her shots.

I saw Wozniacki live in late 08 against Serena during an exhibition/charity event and her pace wasnt bad at all. It certaintly seems like she doesnt hit it as hard now as she once did.

Dominic
Dec 24th, 2011, 09:06 PM
I wanted to get this groups' opinion on their weight and pace of shot NOT effectiveness.

:confused: Still Jankovic

effedcamel
Dec 24th, 2011, 09:20 PM
Jankovic. At her best she produced more of her own power (especially off of the FH wing) than Wozniacki. On top of that Jankovic hit the ball earlier, robbing her opponent of more time ala Hingis which further strengthened her shots.

I saw Wozniacki live in late 08 against Serena during an exhibition/charity event and her pace wasnt bad at all. It certaintly seems like she doesnt hit it as hard now as she once did.

thanks for the clarity!

evana
Dec 25th, 2011, 10:36 AM
Jelena. no contest.
At her peak Jelena was a great player. I miss these times when Jelena was decent enough to beat Caro every time they played :sad: from 4-0 up, she's now only 4-3 :sobbing:

Vincey!
Dec 25th, 2011, 08:38 PM
I don't think Peak Jankovic showed her most powerful groundstrokes. When she showed the most power on her shots was more when she was struggling but anyway she hits the balls much harder than Caro I think. On the forehand that's for sure.

BartoliBabes
Dec 25th, 2011, 09:12 PM
Jj

Moveyourfeet
Dec 25th, 2011, 09:51 PM
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Caroline wishes she could play a match like this... (up until the meltdown :lol:)