PDA

View Full Version : What do you think Wozniacki's end of year ranking will be in 2012?


CoryAnnAvants#1
Dec 22nd, 2011, 02:28 AM
My pick is is somewhere between #7-10. I think that Serena, Kim, Vika, Petra, Sharapova, and Stosur will all surpass her in the rankings at the very least. She'll win some titles and have a couple of second week runs at the Slams, will likely qualify for Istanbul, but nothing more than that.

I'm also saying this under the assumption that she doesn't make any major changes to her game and continues to be a counter-puncher bordering on retriever.

ExtremespeedX
Dec 22nd, 2011, 02:30 AM
My guess 2012 is the last year Dullniacki spends in top 10.

Smitten
Dec 22nd, 2011, 02:41 AM
#2-#5 unless a major injury.

This whole thing about Borz suddenly fading into irrelevancy(ranking wise) is nice on paper, but it isn't going to happpen. The rest of the tour is just too bad in a day-in/day-out basis to stop her over and over.

Her ranking now allows for BYEs and easier opponents in the early rounds, and she plays a loaded schedule. She's not going anywhere.

dsanders06
Dec 22nd, 2011, 02:43 AM
Somewhere around #7.

I also have a feeling her only silverware of the year will come in New Haven, thus she'll have to spend 51 of 52 weeks titleless :awww:

Smitten
Dec 22nd, 2011, 02:48 AM
Also to add,

The main people that can stop her in every tournament are the ones that barely play.
Kvitova being #2 helps Borz in that any tournament they both enter for the next few months, they can only meet in the F.

Who else is left to stop her on the tour? Azarenka? Kuznetsova? Radwanska? Petkovic?

ExtremespeedX
Dec 22nd, 2011, 02:49 AM
Who else is left to stop her on the tour?

Any top 50 player with decent ball striking skills.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Dec 22nd, 2011, 02:53 AM
Any top 50 player with decent ball striking skills.

I don't know if that's true. She's had some clunker losses this year (Vinci, McHale), but she's not susceptible to losing to anyone in the top 50.

Smitten
Dec 22nd, 2011, 02:55 AM
Any top 50 player with decent ball striking skills.

The same players that were around in 2010 and 2011 are the same ones that will be around next year.

Nothing new is being added to the tour. It's the same choking, error-prone girls that she's been beating. Unless they magically became endowed with a new burst of talent and mental fortitude, the same things will happen.

She'll be stopped in all the slams.
She'll be one of the bigger forces on the tour weekly.

She'll be top 3 or top 5 year end.

dsanders06
Dec 22nd, 2011, 02:59 AM
The same players that were around in 2010 and 2011 are the same ones that will be around next year.

Nothing new is being added to the tour. It's the same choking, error-prone girls that she's been beating. Unless they magically became endowed with a new burst of talent and mental fortitude, the same things will happen.

She'll be stopped in all the slams.
She'll be one of the bigger forces on the tour weekly.

She'll be top 3 or top 5 year end.

But don't forget, since Wimbledon, Wozniacki is only #7 in terms of ranking points earnt, even though that whole period is her favoured hardcourts. She's still relying on her points from the Australian/Dubai/Indian Wells. She would have to lift her game in real terms to finish in the top 5 next year, because a continuation of her level from the second half of 2011 wouldn't cut it, even taking into account her skill at vulturing WTA tournaments that the elite don't bother with.

ExtremespeedX
Dec 22nd, 2011, 03:00 AM
The mistake people make is thinking lower ranked players will choke to Dullniacki. She's been figured out - even most brainless ballbasher will not go all out against her anymore, knowing how harmless she is on offense and will patiently bide their time to crush Dullniacki's mid-court moonballs. Why did her results suffer in the latter part of 2011? Because she stagnated. Added nothing to her game and other players realized she was very beatable - unlike in late 2010 where Dullniacki's defense was so feared that everyone would try painting the lines against her and lose with 60UE. Not anymore.

MH0861
Dec 22nd, 2011, 03:02 AM
#2! This bitch isn't going anywhere folks :lol:

Smitten
Dec 22nd, 2011, 03:06 AM
But don't forget, since Wimbledon, Wozniacki is only #7 in terms of ranking points earnt, even though that whole period is her favoured hardcourts. She's still relying on her points from the Australian/Dubai/Indian Wells. She would have to lift her game in real terms to finish in the top 5 next year, because a continuation of her level from the second half of 2011 wouldn't cut it, even taking into account her skill at vulturing WTA tournaments that the elite don't bother with.

Legitimately she did perform poorly the second half of the year.

Some of it due to a low level of play, and I think the indoor-grass-clay-hard surface change really fucked her over for the Canada/Cincinnati double. That was bad scheduling and completely her own fault for wanting to play those dumb MMs so close together.

Starting off fresh with the off-season break, I see no real signs that she'll continue to perform at her post-Wimbledon level.

If she does then I'll gladly be wrong. I just have such little faith in the tour that has failed to contain her since late 2009.

Reptilia
Dec 22nd, 2011, 03:11 AM
1-3

Ryan
Dec 22nd, 2011, 03:15 AM
I think between #5-10. Maintaining such great consistency is really tough, especially for someone who isn't one of the "greats". If Serena and Kim play a full schedule, they should pass Caro. Maria's got room to move up, and Petra should be Top 3 all year IMO.

I expect Caro to win about 4 titles, make a GS SF, but overall not do all that well. She'll hopefully realize she needs to seriously improve her game.

Pops Maellard
Dec 22nd, 2011, 03:25 AM
#4

Steven.
Dec 22nd, 2011, 04:06 AM
top 5

Tunk
Dec 22nd, 2011, 04:08 AM
She will be 1-3.

we have Kvitova, Wozniacki, Azarenka

Novichok
Dec 22nd, 2011, 04:23 AM
Wozniacki will slay and end up 1-3. Hopefully #1. :hearts:

Holdsworth
Dec 22nd, 2011, 04:28 AM
will be # 3-5

Yoncé
Dec 22nd, 2011, 04:47 AM
4-6

claypova
Dec 22nd, 2011, 05:03 AM
6 :shrug:

Kairi
Dec 22nd, 2011, 05:07 AM
top 100..............

Mistress of Evil
Dec 22nd, 2011, 05:15 AM
I simply do not care. Good luck to her, though! :)

Stonerpova
Dec 22nd, 2011, 06:05 AM
Somewhere from the #4-7 range. I'm hoping that she adds to her game and becomes a better player, not because I like her but because it'd be good for the game, but even if she does it'll take a while for her to reap the benefits of any add-ons to her game. She's got a ton to defend through Indian Wells (so her ranking will take a hit due to that and the fact that the rest of the top four have chances to add points - cough, Maria, cough). I doubt she'll have as shitty a US Open Series next year as she did this year, so it'll more or less balance everything out. She'll win three or four titles, but unless Sanchez can fix that forehand she'll have a hard time winning big events consistently and finishing inside the top 3.

Jajaloo
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:17 AM
#1 or #2.

People may not like her style of play, but she's consistent. The rankings reward consistency.

Shadowcat
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:33 AM
Behind Azarenka. :oh:

cowsonice
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:36 AM
top 100..............
Stop being so generous! :crying2:

TZVETI83
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:51 AM
Hopefully out of the top 20 where she belongs but probably in the top ten 5 - 9 range.

Huntress55
Dec 22nd, 2011, 08:17 AM
I dont think it'll be no.1 again, but she plays alot and is pretty consistent so maybe 3 or 4.

vozas
Dec 22nd, 2011, 08:22 AM
I think she'll end up in the 3rd tier, i.e. in the 5-8 range. It'll be good for her and her game to not have the slamless-#1 pressure. But I have high hopes for next season and most girls are gonna step it up big time and at their respective peaks they're simply better players than Caroline.

Kooyong
Dec 22nd, 2011, 08:42 AM
I voted 2-5 although I think Caro is good enough to keep the number 1 ranking. The question that I have is how will she go in the slams, I think Caro may benefit from losing the No 1 ranking but then again she is one of the favorites for the Aussie Open

Iceland
Dec 22nd, 2011, 08:45 AM
Even with a pretty unimpressive year, Caroline managed to stay number one. She won't disappear next year. She's just way too solid for that. Voted for the 2-5 spot.

madmax
Dec 22nd, 2011, 09:28 AM
who cares - her moonballing ass will still be slamless and that's what matters the most:cheer:

killerqueen
Dec 22nd, 2011, 09:39 AM
People are kidding themselves if they think she won't be in the Top 5 come the end of next year. Even with her shaky form of late, she's still one of the most consistent players out there, and she plays a heavy schedule anyway. I'd say #3, but with fewer titles than the last year.

Johnbert
Dec 22nd, 2011, 09:45 AM
who cares - her moonballing ass will still be slamless and that's what matters the most:cheer:

lovely povatards again :kiss:

Steven.
Dec 22nd, 2011, 09:50 AM
People are kidding themselves if they think she won't be in the Top 5 come the end of next year. Even with her shaky form of late, she's still one of the most consistent players out there, and she plays a heavy schedule anyway. I'd say #3, but with fewer titles than the last year.

Not since RG.

R3 RG
CH Copenhagen
R4 Wimbledon
R2 Bastad
R2 Toronto (with BYE)
R2 Cincinnati (with BYE)
CH New Haven
SF US Open
R3 Tokyo (with BYE)
QF Beijing (with BYE)
RR WTA Championships (going 1-2)

Is that really consistent?

Corswandt
Dec 22nd, 2011, 09:54 AM
who cares - her moonballing ass will still be slamless and that's what matters the most:cheer:

This 82174319283245235098074 times.

Emina.
Dec 22nd, 2011, 10:04 AM
#6-10 :d

améliemomo
Dec 22nd, 2011, 10:39 AM
too consistent unless she got injured.

top 3-5 imo.

doomsday
Dec 22nd, 2011, 10:51 AM
who cares - her moonballing ass will still be slamless and that's what matters the most:cheer:

:lol:

nevetssllim
Dec 22nd, 2011, 11:02 AM
I expect her to have the sort of season Azarenka had this year. Plays a full schedule with consistent results but not really a threat for the slams. I think she'll end at three or four.

SilverPersian
Dec 22nd, 2011, 11:21 AM
She will lose before the second week of all grand slams but still finish the year #1.

evana
Dec 22nd, 2011, 11:30 AM
2-5 :shrug:

Bluish
Dec 22nd, 2011, 11:31 AM
I really doubt she'll go any lower than #6

mac47
Dec 22nd, 2011, 12:45 PM
Wozniacki will slay and end up 1-3. Hopefully #1. :hearts:

Wozniacki will continue to be slain, and will fall out of the top 5.

Brad[le]y.
Dec 22nd, 2011, 01:06 PM
Not since RG.

R3 RG
CH Copenhagen
R4 Wimbledon
R2 Bastad
R2 Toronto (with BYE)
R2 Cincinnati (with BYE)
CH New Haven
SF US Open
R3 Tokyo (with BYE)
QF Beijing (with BYE)
RR WTA Championships (going 1-2)

Is that really consistent?

true, no one this year was 'consistent' by the usual standards.

Matt01
Dec 22nd, 2011, 04:27 PM
I don't think she'll stay at #1 but she'll be #3-6 at least. :D


lovely povatards again :kiss:


They're just bitter that their fave is slamless since 2008 as well and is behind Woz in the rankings besides. :oh:

Novichok
Dec 22nd, 2011, 04:35 PM
Wozniacki will continue to be slain, and will fall out of the top 5.

Oh mac, I expect nothing less from you. Keep dreaming. :kiss:

Steven.
Dec 22nd, 2011, 05:07 PM
I don't think she'll stay at #1 but she'll be #3-6 at least. :D





They're just bitter that their fave is slamless since 2008 as well and is behind Woz in the rankings besides. :oh:

:spit: yeah cuz her career is so much better than Maria's.

Matt01
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:05 PM
:spit: yeah cuz her career is so much better than Maria's.


Since she came back from injury, yes it is.

Brad[le]y.
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:13 PM
0 tournament wins, first round losses at all the slams, and outside top 50 by the end of the season. GM throws a party.

young_gunner913
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:15 PM
Probably somewhere 4-6. :shrug:

Vincey!
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:16 PM
I think she'll be 4th or 5 behind Serena, Sharapova and Kvitova and maybe Azarenka. Assuming Clijsters won't play a full season here.

mac47
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:19 PM
Oh mac, I expect nothing less from you. Keep dreaming. :kiss:

Oh, I'm enjoying it, Novichok. I'm so looking forward to the moment Caro loses that #1 ranking. I will have a real problem on my hands when that happens, trying to decide which of your many pearls of sage, logical wisdom to put in my sig...

Matt01
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:26 PM
I think she'll be 4th or 5 behind Serena, Sharapova and Kvitova and maybe Azarenka. Assuming Clijsters won't play a full season here.


I don't see Serena play a full season either. And I don't see her in the Top 5 next year with only 9 tournaments in her rankings (4 Slams + 4 warm-ups + 'lympics) but that's the topic for another thread I guess. :shrug:

young_gunner913
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:30 PM
I don't see Serena play a full season either. And I don't see her in the Top 5 next year with only 9 tournaments in her rankings (4 Slams + 4 warm-ups + 'lympics) but that's the topic for another thread I guess. :shrug:

She'll probably play a light schedule but she has nothing to do but pick up ranking points in the first half of the season. :p

Petronius
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:33 PM
2-5 :shrug:

This.

Matt01
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:33 PM
She'll probably play a light schedule but she has nothing to do but pick up ranking points in the first half of the season. :p


Are you sure? Maybe she will have other, more important things to do like cleaning her toilet or attending another VIP celebrity wedding? ;)

young_gunner913
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:37 PM
Are you sure? Maybe she will have other, more important things to do like cleaning her toilet or attending another VIP celebrity wedding? ;)

She'll have tons of time between AO-Miami. :p

backhandsmash
Dec 22nd, 2011, 07:39 PM
#1

But she'll probably dip down to #3 or #4 during the year.

PLP
Dec 22nd, 2011, 08:18 PM
#6

Novichok
Dec 22nd, 2011, 09:09 PM
Oh, I'm enjoying it, Novichok. I'm so looking forward to the moment Caro loses that #1 ranking. I will have a real problem on my hands when that happens, trying to decide which of your many pearls of sage, logical wisdom to put in my sig...

Yes you will.:angel:

Vincey!
Dec 22nd, 2011, 09:41 PM
I don't see Serena play a full season either. And I don't see her in the Top 5 next year with only 9 tournaments in her rankings (4 Slams + 4 warm-ups + 'lympics) but that's the topic for another thread I guess. :shrug:

Serena can be top 5 with only 9 tournment especially if she plays all 4 slams :shrug: with the YEC as well if she could ever stay healthy long enough lol. The difference with Clijsters is that she's not an all court player like Serena who can easily go deep in every tournment she enters. But Clijsters on Clay and on grass can lose early and if you only play 9 tourneys yo ucan't afford that.

Kooyong
Dec 23rd, 2011, 12:52 AM
Not since RG.

R3 RG
CH Copenhagen
R4 Wimbledon
R2 Bastad
R2 Toronto (with BYE)
R2 Cincinnati (with BYE)
CH New Haven
SF US Open
R3 Tokyo (with BYE)
QF Beijing (with BYE)
RR WTA Championships (going 1-2)

Is that really consistent?

Plenty of scope for improving her ranking.

Caro haters may be seeking :help:

Hurley
Dec 23rd, 2011, 03:54 AM
Unfortunately, I'd be extremely surprised if she fell any lower than #4.

Steven.
Dec 23rd, 2011, 03:56 AM
Plenty of scope for improving her ranking.

Caro haters may be seeking :help:

I don't hate players as an individual, I just don't like her play style. She's a nice girl.

Your view is very optimistic so good for you. I wonder how she's going to perform next year though. With so much to defend during the first few months and then it's onto the natural surfaces where she's definitely not good on. And then comes the part where there's 'plenty of scope for improving her ranking', which happens to be the same part of the season where people overrate her due to her 2010 season (every other year, she's lost on these very same courts in the very early stages of the tournaments).

All the above, and the fact that her game hasn't just stagnated, but also regressed over the past 6 or so months.

I wouldn't say things are looking good for her, but she can feel free to prove me wrong.

Kooyong
Dec 23rd, 2011, 04:10 AM
I don't hate players as an individual, I just don't like her play style. She's a nice girl.

Your view is very optimistic so good for you. I wonder how she's going to perform next year though. With so much to defend during the first few months and then it's onto the natural surfaces where she's definitely not good on. And then comes the part where there's 'plenty of scope for improving her ranking', which happens to be the same part of the season where people overrate her due to her 2010 season (every other year, she's lost on these very same courts in the very early stages of the tournaments).

All the above, and the fact that her game hasn't just stagnated, but also regressed over the past 6 or so months.

I wouldn't say things are looking good for her, but she can feel free to prove me wrong.

My comment about Caro haters was tongue in cheek.

I agree that last year Caro did just enough to maintain her no 1 ranking, which I believe she will lose either after the Aussie Open or in February.

I think where Caro finishes next year will be largely out of her hands for if the likes of Petrovic, Radwanksa and several others step up their games then Caro will need to improve.

If several of those players ranked around 10-20 in the world do step up then Caro may turn into something similar to Jankovic.

My biggest concern with Caro is she seems to know that her game needs to become more aggressive yet I have watched several matches where she has been under pressure and she just doesn't seem to react. of course there are times when she does step it up

Matt01
Dec 23rd, 2011, 10:13 AM
I don't hate players as an individual, I just don't like her play style. She's a nice girl.

Your view is very optimistic so good for you. I wonder how she's going to perform next year though. With so much to defend during the first few months and then it's onto the natural surfaces where she's definitely not good on. And then comes the part where there's 'plenty of scope for improving her ranking', which happens to be the same part of the season where people overrate her due to her 2010 season (every other year, she's lost on these very same courts in the very early stages of the tournaments).

All the above, and the fact that her game hasn't just stagnated, but also regressed over the past 6 or so months.

I wouldn't say things are looking good for her, but she can feel free to prove me wrong.


And I would that say that you are just another pathetic Woz hater. This thread is about the YE-anking so it doesn't matter how many points Caro has to defend at the start of the year. Everyone's starting with zero points at the begining of 2012.

Fighterpova
Dec 23rd, 2011, 10:31 AM
1. Petra Kvitova
2. Victoria Azarenka
3. Serena Williams
4. Caroline Wozniacki

Mynarco
Dec 23rd, 2011, 10:33 AM
a solid top 5 I guess.

Miracle Worker
Dec 23rd, 2011, 11:26 AM
Let's see...

Serena Williams
Petra Kvitova

These two will be higher than she for sure.

Maria and Kim should surpass her too if they'll stay healthy and focus on tennis.

So, I predict she won't be higher than 4 when season 2012 ends (cause Kim will resign before Istanbul).

mac47
Dec 23rd, 2011, 12:31 PM
It's really all about trajectories, not defending points. Caroline's trajectory is flat or downward right now. Her US Open was encouraging, especially the wins over Petkovic and Kuznetsova. Those are two quality wins, because Kuz is a former slam champ and plays a style that is a pretty bad matchup for Caro, and Petkovic has been streaking upward in the rankings all year. The win over a red-hot Radwanska at the YEC was also a good one. But those bright spots can't really be cause for optimism, given the dire losses that surround them, losses to players ranked in the 20-80 range (Cibulkova, Vinci, McHale, Kanepi, Arvidsson, Penetta).

A blip here or there should be ignored. For instance, we would be silly to take Kvitty's loss to Dulgheru at the USO as a basis for a trend. EDIT: There were also the losses to Morita and Arvidsson. Still not enough to constitute a trend, because they're well spaced out, and there are only three of them. But if there is a trend of losing to players ranked in the 20-80 range, then optimism isn't rational. Does the current world #6 have a trend of losses like that? It's Sam Stosur. Check her list. She has two or three "WTF?" losses (against a treeing Jarka, also Dulko and Czink -- I make an exception for the vendetta with MaKiri and for Safina), but there isn't a trend like Caro has. Hence, I think the signs are that Caro will be lower than #6. The tour as a whole has figured her out. Hit hard, hit your spots, pound her forehand, and there really isn't any reason you won't win. Thus, there is really no reason to expect that Caro will, as a certain fool thinks, "slay" in 2012. Down she goes.

Novichok
Dec 23rd, 2011, 01:26 PM
It's really all about trajectories, not defending points. Caroline's trajectory is flat or downward right now. Her US Open was encouraging, especially the wins over Petkovic and Kuznetsova. Those are two quality wins, because Kuz is a former slam champ and plays a style that is a pretty bad matchup for Caro, and Petkovic has been streaking upward in the rankings all year. The win over a red-hot Radwanska at the YEC was also a good one. But those bright spots can't really be cause for optimism, given the dire losses that surround them, losses to players ranked in the 20-80 range (Cibulkova, Vinci, McHale, Kanepi, Arvidsson, Penetta).

A blip here or there should be ignored. For instance, we would be silly to take Kvitty's loss to Dulgheru at the USO as a basis for a trend. EDIT: There were also the losses to Morita and Arvidsson. Still not enough to constitute a trend, because they're well spaced out, and there are only three of them. But if there is a trend of losing to players ranked in the 20-80 range, then optimism isn't rational. Does the current world #6 have a trend of losses like that? It's Sam Stosur. Check her list. She has two or three "WTF?" losses (against a treeing Jarka, also Dulko and Czink -- I make an exception for the vendetta with MaKiri and for Safina), but there isn't a trend like Caro has. Hence, I think the signs are that Caro will be lower than #6. The tour as a whole has figured her out. Hit hard, hit your spots, pound her forehand, and there really isn't any reason you won't win. Thus, there is really no reason to expect that Caro will, as a certain fool thinks, "slay" in 2012. Down she goes.

You assume that a flat or declining trajectory will stay flat or declining. You also assume that Caro will not improve certain aspects of her game. A big part of Caro's problems post-Wimbledon was her training regime during the clay season and her schedule. So yes, there are reasons to think that Caro will "slay" even if you might not agree with them.

Sammo
Dec 23rd, 2011, 01:27 PM
Number 4

mac47
Dec 23rd, 2011, 01:57 PM
You assume that a flat or declining trajectory will stay flat or declining. You also assume that Caro will not improve certain aspects of her game. A big part of Caro's problems post-Wimbledon was her training regime during the clay season and her schedule. So yes, there are reasons to think that Caro will "slay" even if you might not agree with them.

Yes, you're right that I can only make predictions based on what I see before me. Of course, trajectories can change. We'd need to see what the changes are before we can make any predictions based on them. You don't know that she will even attempt to make any substantive changes at all. And even if she does make an attempt, who knows whether it will be successful. A new kick serve or a flat forehand arent things that come for the asking.

I'm not actually assuming anything but what I see already existing. That isn't a very big assumption. You, on the other hand, have to hope that changes happen and a new trajectory gets established. That IS a big assumption. There's no more reason to think that Caro will establish a new trajectory than there is to think that some other player with a similar current trend will turn things around during the month-long offseason. That's what makes it such wishful thinking on your part. I'd put more money on Kaia Kanepi or Cibulkova or Petkovic to improve in the rankings than for Caro to turn her trajectory around.

As far as I can see, the only reason to expect anything different is her hiring of a new coach. And even that doesn't mean that changes will be successful.

Novichok
Dec 23rd, 2011, 02:21 PM
Yes, you're right that I can only make predictions based on what I see before me. Of course, trajectories can change. We'd need to see what the changes are before we can make any predictions based on them. You don't know that she will even attempt to make any substantive changes at all. And even if she does make an attempt, who knows whether it will be successful. A new kick serve or a flat forehand arent things that come for the asking.

I'm not actually assuming anything but what I see already existing. That isn't a very big assumption. You, on the other hand, have to hope that changes happen and a new trajectory gets established. That IS a big assumption. There's no more reason to think that Caro will establish a new trajectory than there is to think that some other player with a similar current trend will turn things around during the month-long offseason. That's what makes it such wishful thinking on your part. I'd put more money on Kaia Kanepi or Cibulkova or Petkovic to improve in the rankings than for Caro to turn her trajectory around.

As far as I can see, the only reason to expect anything different is her hiring of a new coach. And even that doesn't mean that changes will be successful.

Yes you are. If you are saying that she won't improve in 2012 or will decline, you're assuming that her trajectory will stay flat or decline. You have your reasons for thinking that she will decline and I have mine for thinking that she will improve. You might not agree with them. Although I don't stoop to the level of name-calling and petty insults.

mac47
Dec 23rd, 2011, 02:33 PM
I've been quite upfront about my assumptions: I see Caro performing at a certain level, and I assume she will stay at that level unless and until she shows some reason to think otherwise,

It's called the principle of sufficient reason, Novichok. Since you're a philosophy student, perhaps you've heard of it. What are your reasons for expecting improvement, again, Novichok? I haven't seen any from you.

Novichok
Dec 23rd, 2011, 02:41 PM
I've been quite upfront about my assumptions: I see Caro performing at a certain level, and I assume she will stay at that level unless and until she shows some reason to think otherwise,

It's called the principle of sufficient reason, Novichok. Since you're a philosophy student, perhaps you've heard of it. What are your reasons for expecting improvement, again, Novichok? I haven't seen any from you.

Principle of sufficient reason (Leibniz?) = For every fact, there must be an explanation for that fact.

I wouldn't say that I believe Caro will be number 1 or will slay is a fact. Although my reasons for supporting this is that I don't believe her trajectory will stay flat or decline.

Reason 1: Caro will work to improve her game in the off-season. Even if change is marginal and leads to marginal increases, her trajectory will improve.

Reason 2: Her poor results post-Wimbledon was partly because of her training regime during the clay season and scheduling. I expect her team to be smarter with scheduling for next year.

And when I said "slay," I didn't mean that she would "slay" all players all the time. ;)

mac47
Dec 23rd, 2011, 03:03 PM
Reason 1 is pretty dumb. Every player is working to improve her game. No one goes into the offseason thinking, "Let's see. How can I get worse next year? Let me do it!" But an improvement in results would require her to improve more than the other players who are also trying to improve. There's no reason to think this will happen.

Reason 2 is also pretty unconvincing. Playing fewer tournaments might not lead to better results. She might just perform at the same level in fewer tournaments, resulting in a lower ranking, not a higher one.

Novichok
Dec 23rd, 2011, 03:08 PM
Reason 1 is pretty dumb. Every player is working to improve her game. No one goes into the offseason thinking, "Let's see. How can I get worse next year? Let me do it!" But an improvement in results would require her to improve more than the other players who are also trying to improve. There's no reason to think this will happen.

Reason 2 is also pretty unconvincing. Playing fewer tournaments might not lead to better results. She might just perform at the same level in fewer tournaments, resulting in a lower ranking, not a higher one.

You asked for reasons why I think her trajectory would improve (her ranking can't improve). If these were true, then her trajectory would improve. I obviously can't predict the future so I guess the debate ends here. :shrug:

mac47
Dec 23rd, 2011, 03:43 PM
Right. Reasons that aren't true are not good reasons.

Novichok
Dec 23rd, 2011, 03:57 PM
Right. Reasons that aren't true are not good reasons.

The reasons that I gave are neither true or false. They are expected future events and why I believe that she'll improve. We'll just have to wait and see. :shrug:

mac47
Dec 23rd, 2011, 04:20 PM
Her present trajectory would be a sufficient reason for her ranking points to go down. Her desire to improve, and changes to her schedule are not sufficient reasons for her ranking points to increase even if they come to pass or become true in the future.

If we saw Woz deploying a new strategy, or concluding the season with some impressive wins over players she had previously struggled with, or making radical changes to the mechanics of her strokes, then we would have reasons to hope for improvement. I don't see any of that happening.

Novichok
Dec 23rd, 2011, 04:25 PM
Her present trajectory would be a sufficient reason for her ranking points to go down. Her desire to improve, and changes to her schedule are not sufficient reasons for her ranking points to increase even if they come to pass or become true in the future.

If we saw Woz deploying a new strategy, or concluding the season with some impressive wins over players she had previously struggled with, or making radical changes to the mechanics of her strokes, then we would have reasons to hope for improvement. I don't see any of that happening.

Yes, it would be sufficient. However, you are committing yourself to the idea that the present trajectory will stay the same in the future. I don't see how you can avoid that commitment. :shrug:

We don't see any of the happening because the season is over. We'll have to wait until next year. If Caroline has a horrible season, I will admit that you were right.

mac47
Dec 23rd, 2011, 04:37 PM
Nope. I have no such commitment. Her trajectory could get worse or better. But I don't have any reasons to think that it will do either. This is not like predicting a random future event like the toss of a coin. We are dealing with human beings and their motives.

Woz has known for a long time now that her game is too defensive and her shots are not hurting her opponents enough. The fact that she has not fixed these defects before now, despite having excellent motives to do so, is a good reason to suppose that she also will not fix them in the future.

Novichok
Dec 23rd, 2011, 04:49 PM
Nope. I have no such commitment. Her trajectory could get worse or better. But I don't have any reasons to think that it will do either. This is not like predicting a random future event like the toss of a coin. We are dealing with human beings and their motives.

Woz has known for a long time now that her game is too defensive and her shots are not hurting her opponents enough. The fact that she has not fixed these defects before now, despite having excellent motives to do so, is a good reason to suppose that she also will not fix them in the future.

Yeah but there's so many variables in human decision making. Predicting future human action from is not easy.

Kooyong
Dec 24th, 2011, 02:56 AM
Principle of sufficient reason (Leibniz?) = For every fact, there must be an explanation for that fact.

I wouldn't say that I believe Caro will be number 1 or will slay is a fact. Although my reasons for supporting this is that I don't believe her trajectory will stay flat or decline.

Reason 1: Caro will work to improve her game in the off-season. Even if change is marginal and leads to marginal increases, her trajectory will improve.

Reason 2: Her poor results post-Wimbledon was partly because of her training regime during the clay season and scheduling. I expect her team to be smarter with scheduling for next year.

And when I said "slay," I didn't mean that she would "slay" all players all the time. ;)

Lets for argument sake say the the following happens.

Both Kim and Serena remain fit and healthy and play a full season
Sam, Li, Petrovic, Radwanga and Vera all improve
Maria and Victoria hit bigger than they sound
Ana, Jankovic and maybe even Safina all return to being competitive
and
Someone does a Kvitova and comes from the 20s

Caro will need to improve a fair bit. I think if all the things that I mention did happen may actual suit Caro but only time will tell.

mac47
Dec 24th, 2011, 06:42 AM
Sorry, Kooyong, that's all incredibly unlikely. Kim and Serena will not play a full season, at least not both of them.

Sam and Petkovic (assuming that's who you meant) may improve, but not both Bepa and Li, whose trajectories are unmistakeably downward right now. I love Bepa, and would like to see her get a slam so that she can remember it forever in the future years she spends under her towel. Maybe Li can come back and be dangerous again in Melbourne and Roland Garros. Then again, maybe Schiavone will get another RG!

Maria's season is in jeopardy right now with this ankle stuff.

Jankovic might return to being competitive, but she has a lot to prove, and I don't rate her game as high as Caroline's.

Safina is done.

Someone probably will come up from low ranks and join the top 10, but I have no idea who. Maybe one of those promising British girls.

It's a mess.

I think Petra, Serena, Kim, Sammy, Vika, and just one of Bepa/Li/Aga/Bartoli/Petkovic to keep Caro out of the top 5. Petkovic and Aga have a good trajectory. Bepa, not so much. If Masha is healthy enough, she will also be ranked higher than Caro by the end of the year. But if she's not healthy, she won't. Shoulderpova had a hard enough time this year. Anklepova will have an even harder time.

terjw
Dec 24th, 2011, 11:16 AM
I'm not getting into arguments what Caro will do in the future. But the argument that just because the last half of 2011 - she was a shadow of herself the previous 12 months and that she will therefore be at that level the rest of her career seeems a pretty dumb argument.

Every top player has periods they are not at their best and - and longer than 6 months. And it would have been dumb to think they'd play at that level the rest of their careers. Of course if it goes on for years that a player has gone off the boil - the less likely a player can bounce back.

But even then it's dumb to just write the player off. On that argument - Fran, Li, and Sam would never win a GS, And Sharapova would always play at her 2009-2010 level. And I remember that argument used to state that Serena would be at her 2005-2006 level for ever.

cn ireland
Dec 24th, 2011, 11:23 AM
#6-10

Steven.
Dec 24th, 2011, 01:05 PM
I'm actually really excited, for lack of better words, to see what Caroline's new game will be like. We will probably see an improvement on her forehand side according to what we know, but I wonder where that would take her overall level to: better than what we've seen from late 2010-early 2011, or the same level we've seen in the past several months?

Linguae^
Dec 24th, 2011, 01:26 PM
World number 5.

mac47
Dec 24th, 2011, 01:36 PM
How many players in history can you think of who added a major shot to their arsenal midway through their career? Not at the beginning, but in the middle? I mean a shot like a flat forehand, a kick serve, a slice backhand, or good volleys. Can it be done?

Bosco123
Dec 24th, 2011, 02:47 PM
How many players in history can you think of who added a major shot to their arsenal midway through their career? Not at the beginning, but in the middle? I mean a shot like a flat forehand, a kick serve, a slice backhand, or good volleys. Can it be done?

She doesn't need to change anything, just stay injury free and play as well as Jul 10-June 2011, being consistent and wining a couple of Premiers will do the trick for her and she'll end the year again in the top 5.

kája!
Dec 24th, 2011, 03:03 PM
#1 is secured by Kvitova. So... maybe in top 5. She's a waste material as of now.

Novichok
Dec 24th, 2011, 03:04 PM
#1 is secured by Kvitova. So... maybe in top 5. She's a waste material as of now.

No it's not.:lol:

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 24th, 2011, 03:12 PM
The Fall Cometh... But not that quickly. I predict she will briefly lose the #1 around AO-Miami, probably to Kvitova. She will probably gain some points again in the middle of the season and take the #1 position back. She can also lose the #1 should she still have it, to Serena after Wimbledon. And again by Petra should Kvitty have another good year heading into the US Open. Overall, I see the #1 position being battled for by 3 or 4 players all year. By the end of the year I see her being ranked 3-5. Then next year 6-10. You get the picture.

Brad[le]y.
Dec 24th, 2011, 03:13 PM
I think she'll be like Jankovic in 2009; so probably 6 or 7

dsanders06
Dec 24th, 2011, 03:43 PM
I'm actually really excited, for lack of better words, to see what Caroline's new game will be like. We will probably see an improvement on her forehand side according to what we know, but I wonder where that would take her overall level to: better than what we've seen from late 2010-early 2011, or the same level we've seen in the past several months?

I bet hardly anything is different :lol: We had all this shit about her playing more aggressively last summer, but at the US Open she was playing the same way as ever. It's not even like she's been practising that hard judging by the regular stream of all the photos we've been getting in the Offcourt Photos thread.

kája!
Dec 24th, 2011, 03:47 PM
Found this while exploring the board:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5095/bannercry.png

It also said something about kindergarten. These Wozniacki fans are so :tape: as opposed to us.

Kvitova has come. Wozniacki must start packing. Kvitova will do to her what Djoko did to Nadal. DESTROY. 2012 is gonna be the year of Kvitova. If Wozniacki holds out in top 5 that would be considered as a success.

Belmont Lad
Dec 24th, 2011, 04:26 PM
#5. She will still be chasing points every week as usual, it should be enough to keep her top 5.

RobinT83
Dec 24th, 2011, 04:57 PM
I don't care but hopefully, Shitra Craptova will never be number one to save tennis from a new low.

In The Zone
Dec 24th, 2011, 05:37 PM
I think she will be #4 behind Kvitova, Serena, and Sharapova.

Steven.
Dec 24th, 2011, 05:43 PM
I think she will be #4 behind Kvitova, Serena, and Sharapova.

That is an amazing list of names for top 3. :worship:

nfl46
Dec 24th, 2011, 05:47 PM
1-3.

Sad to say, but she will play a thousand tournaments and make up for those Grand Slam loses. lol.The thing with her is, she won't win the GS, but she'll make it far - but she will win most of the smaller tournaments.

nfl46
Dec 24th, 2011, 05:47 PM
#1 is secured by Kvitova. So... maybe in top 5. She's a waste material as of now.
DEFinitely not!

kája!
Dec 24th, 2011, 05:51 PM
DEFinitely not!

You obviously know nothing about the sport. Go back to the drawing board.

Kvitova wiil do a Wozniacki + Golden Slam in 2012.

nfl46
Dec 24th, 2011, 05:53 PM
You obviously know nothing about the sport. Go back to the drawing board.

Kvitova wiil do a Wozniacki + Golden Slam in 2012.

Great sarcasm! It was almost believable.

JCTennisFan
Dec 24th, 2011, 08:39 PM
Heck, by Summer I expect her to already be in the lower part of the top 10. She has a huge and I mean HUGE amount of points to defend in the first half of 2012.

CWTennis
Dec 25th, 2011, 12:01 AM
#1 is secured by Kvitova. So... maybe in top 5. She's a waste material as of now.

You obviously know nothing about the sport. Go back to the drawing board.

Kvitova wiil do a Wozniacki + Golden Slam in 2012.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltgwjmtUPN1qbnqxe.jpg










p.s. Troll alert! :secret:

Wannabeknowitall
Dec 25th, 2011, 01:10 AM
I will give her props for changing up her schedule. I think playing some mixed doubles at Hopman will help her a bit when it comes to her transitional game. That being said, like Hingis I am impressed with Kvitkova. She covered some shots in Istanbul at the net that I didn't think she had in her. Wozniacki is going to find out that lacking an all court game will have her out of the top 5 by the end of the year.

keithb1961
Dec 25th, 2011, 04:04 AM
eighth

BepaMaria
Dec 25th, 2011, 05:32 AM
Rankless, because she will retire after more confidence shattering losses to Arvidsson, Vinci, Mchale, Kanepi, Pennetta and any other player in the top 50.

InsideOut.
Dec 26th, 2011, 05:52 AM
Still in Top 3.

danieln1
Dec 26th, 2011, 12:32 PM
Rankless, because she will retire after more confidence shattering losses to Arvidsson, Vinci, Mchale, Kanepi, Pennetta and any other player in the top 50.

:happy: :spit:

The Dawntreader
Dec 26th, 2011, 12:36 PM
Between 2 and 5.

If Wozniacki is to decline, it will be gradual.

C. Drone
Dec 26th, 2011, 12:50 PM
many sorry ass comment trying to diminish Caroline's greatness, again. :lol:

#1 of course. :worship:

bandabou
Dec 26th, 2011, 02:19 PM
ranking is irrelevant...it's about is she gonna perform in the majors?! She's been no.1 for so long, we already know she can play enough, rack enough points to stay no.1 even without unspectacular results. Now it's about the majors.

Novichok
Dec 26th, 2011, 03:27 PM
many sorry ass comment trying to diminish Caroline's greatness, again. :lol:

#1 of course. :worship:

NID. Peasants trying to diminish a queen. :tape::lol:

mac47
Dec 26th, 2011, 03:43 PM
Say rather, astute observers of a player in decline.

Sombrerero loco
Dec 26th, 2011, 03:44 PM
number 1 again

Lovely:)
Dec 26th, 2011, 04:32 PM
Let's put it this way, she'll be lucky to score half the points Petra will.
Top five is still possible though. Gotta pushwhore more tournaments if she wants to stay somewhat relevant.:)

bbjpa
Dec 26th, 2011, 04:33 PM
Not ranked , retired :bowdown:

madmax
Dec 26th, 2011, 04:39 PM
like usual, she'll clinch her Brussels/Copenhagen/New Haven slams and then will take advantage of any collapsing draws in so called "Premier" events - the same way she was maintaining her ranking the last two years. Of course, things can change if draws will not be filled with choking mugs, but to expect that is naive at best and delusional at worst in today's game...

Novichok
Dec 26th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Let's put it this way, she'll be lucky to score half the points Petra will.
Top five is still possible though. Gotta pushwhore more tournaments if she wants to stay somewhat relevant.:)

tea, I don't like this new identity you've taken. Not at all. :o

Lovely:)
Dec 26th, 2011, 05:14 PM
tea, I don't like this new identity you've taken. Not at all. :o
I'd like to like Caroline, but I am more a fan of Petra-like players, and the heart wants what the heart wants, you know... Caroline is just not my thing. Not at all. :o

Laura_VeeFan
Dec 26th, 2011, 05:25 PM
#2-#5

She won't trouble the big guns but she is very consistent. She should sweep up the lesser titles, before bombing out in the slams

Mistress of Evil
Dec 26th, 2011, 05:37 PM
tea, I don't like this new identity you've taken. Not at all. :o

tea loved/worshiped/dedicated his life for Karolina :sobbing: This cannot be him, I refuse to believe so!

Lovely:)
Dec 26th, 2011, 07:35 PM
I see some moronic Wozniacki fans are bad-repping me. How nice. How ironically nice.:D

Brad[le]y.
Dec 26th, 2011, 07:39 PM
you are trying too hard :o

Jimmie48
Dec 26th, 2011, 08:32 PM
#1 of course :)

She'll lose it sometime in spring for sure but she can make up so much points following Wimbledon she'll get it back in time for the YEC.

Brad[le]y.
Dec 26th, 2011, 09:06 PM
http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc470/Skyblue101/ScreenShot2011-12-26at20327PM.png

bye :kiss: :wavey:

deliverance.
Dec 26th, 2011, 09:27 PM
TOP 3 with tons of lucky.

JCTennisFan
Dec 26th, 2011, 09:36 PM
#2-#5

She won't trouble the big guns but she is very consistent. She should sweep up the lesser titles, before bombing out in the slams

The problem is her consistency has taken a nosedive in the last half of 2011... so when the new year comes around and she has SFs and Fs to constantly defend... I just dont see her doing it. She very well may defend a good portion of her points but will more than likely have a net loss of points by the time the middle of the year comes around.

The only really decent accomplishment she had from Summer onwards was her SF run at the US open... but as her rankings drop so will her nice, easy draws.

By the time june/july comes around, Woz will have (barring some ridiculous resurgance in form) lost the bulk of her points from 2011 while Kvitova will have her W and YEC points still... so one would logically think by summer ( and very possibly well before then) Kvitova will be the #1 in the world.

Bonfire
Dec 26th, 2011, 09:42 PM
http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc470/Skyblue101/ScreenShot2011-12-26at20327PM.png

bye :kiss: :wavey:

thanks for posting that!
you know, I used to actually respect how epic and crafty Tea's trolling was but lately it's just been messy and desperate:lol:
glad to know there is nothing to respect about this poster, for real!
so yes, bye to him and hopefully for a nice, long while

fede33
Dec 26th, 2011, 09:55 PM
I think 3 / 4
I would like 50-100

JCTennisFan
Dec 26th, 2011, 09:57 PM
number 1 again

Well she has it for atleast a few weeks longer. Its really up to Kvitova just how fast Wozniacki loses number 1. If Kvitova can defend her Brisbane points and get to atleast the QFs of the AO and Wozniacki doesnt make it to the SFs then she loses Number 1 (unless ive managed to miss something). Once the AO is over, though, Kvitova has a good amount of points to defend until the FO, so her best shot at number 1 will probably not be until after the FO if she doesnt get it around AO time.

Helen Lawson
Dec 26th, 2011, 11:04 PM
The WTA is playing the Woz too much, I think she will start getting injured and lose her consistency. I think she'll drop out of the Top 10 but not the Top 20.

mac47
Dec 26th, 2011, 11:08 PM
Well she has it for atleast a few weeks longer. Its really up to Kvitova just how fast Wozniacki loses number 1. If Kvitova can defend her Brisbane points and get to atleast the QFs of the AO and Wozniacki doesnt make it to the SFs then she loses Number 1 (unless ive managed to miss something). Once the AO is over, though, Kvitova has a good amount of points to defend until the FO, so her best shot at number 1 will probably not be until after the FO if she doesnt get it around AO time.

Which do you think is more likely: Kvitova winning the AO outright (and thus not needing so much as to look at her rear-view mirror the whole rest of the year), or Caroline making the semis again to keep it competitive?

mac47
Dec 26th, 2011, 11:53 PM
The problem is her consistency has taken a nosedive in the last half of 2011... so when the new year comes around and she has SFs and Fs to constantly defend... I just dont see her doing it. She very well may defend a good portion of her points but will more than likely have a net loss of points by the time the middle of the year comes around.

The only really decent accomplishment she had from Summer onwards was her SF run at the US open... but as her rankings drop so will her nice, easy draws.

By the time june/july comes around, Woz will have (barring some ridiculous resurgance in form) lost the bulk of her points from 2011 while Kvitova will have her W and YEC points still... so one would logically think by summer ( and very possibly well before then) Kvitova will be the #1 in the world.


This. It's a vicious cycle.

Novichok
Dec 26th, 2011, 11:58 PM
Which do you think is more likely: Kvitova winning the AO outright (and thus not needing so much as to look at her rear-view mirror the whole rest of the year), or Caroline making the semis again to keep it competitive?

Caroline has made the semis in 4 out of 5 of the last hard court slams. :shrug:

JCTennisFan
Dec 27th, 2011, 12:14 AM
Caroline has made the semis in 4 out of 5 of the last hard court slams. :shrug:

You want to know an even better statistic? out of those 4 slams that you mention (09-11 US open, 11 AO) she only beat 2 players ranked in the top ten (Schiavone at the AO 11, Petkovic USO 11). The only other 2 reasonable wins she had that whole time was Sharapova at the 10 USO and Kuzzie at the 11 USO. My how she has dominated the Hardcourt slams the past few years! :rolleyes:

ExtremespeedX
Dec 27th, 2011, 12:15 AM
Caroline has made the semis in 4 out of 5 of the last hard court slams. :shrug:

Semi finals are big deal :rolleyes: #1 is expected to dominate, not make semis. It's hilarious Dullniacki fanboys accept semi finals as great achievment these days. A true sign of Dullniacki's mediocrity.

JCTennisFan
Dec 27th, 2011, 12:22 AM
Which do you think is more likely: Kvitova winning the AO outright (and thus not needing so much as to look at her rear-view mirror the whole rest of the year), or Caroline making the semis again to keep it competitive?

I dont want either of those results (sorry Kvitova). What I would like to see would be a. Wozniacki not defending her SF points b. Kvitova atleast defending her qf points, and c. Clijsters winning her 5th slam and 2nd AO in a row :drool:

Craig.
Dec 27th, 2011, 12:23 AM
Which do you think is more likely: Kvitova winning the AO outright (and thus not needing so much as to look at her rear-view mirror the whole rest of the year), or Caroline making the semis again to keep it competitive?

Neither.

ExtremespeedX
Dec 27th, 2011, 12:25 AM
Neither.

Obviously Sharapova will win AO. She'll do it on one leg and with one shoulder :yeah:

mac47
Dec 27th, 2011, 12:35 AM
I didn't ask which you would prefer, or whether either WILL happen. I asked which is more likely.

SilverPersian
Dec 27th, 2011, 12:40 AM
Well she has it for atleast a few weeks longer. Its really up to Kvitova just how fast Wozniacki loses number 1. If Kvitova can defend her Brisbane points and get to atleast the QFs of the AO and Wozniacki doesnt make it to the SFs then she loses Number 1 (unless ive managed to miss something). Once the AO is over, though, Kvitova has a good amount of points to defend until the FO, so her best shot at number 1 will probably not be until after the FO if she doesnt get it around AO time.

I think this is basically right. The only thing I'd add is that Woz got knocked out first round at Sydney last year, so she could potentially pick a bundle of points there.

Novichok
Dec 27th, 2011, 12:54 AM
You want to know an even better statistic? out of those 4 slams that you mention (09-11 US open, 11 AO) she only beat 2 players ranked in the top ten (Schiavone at the AO 11, Petkovic USO 11). The only other 2 reasonable wins she had that whole time was Sharapova at the 10 USO and Kuzzie at the 11 USO. My how she has dominated the Hardcourt slams the past few years! :rolleyes:

Semi finals are big deal :rolleyes: #1 is expected to dominate, not make semis. It's hilarious Dullniacki fanboys accept semi finals as great achievment these days. A true sign of Dullniacki's mediocrity.

My God! You both need to take a course to improve reading comprehension. I didn't claim that reaching the semis is a huge accomplishment or that she has dominated hard courts. I just think its more likely that she will reach the semis at the AO instead of Kvitova winning outright. That's not even an outrageous prediction, since a "declining" and "regressing" Caro made the semis at the USO.

JCTennisFan
Dec 27th, 2011, 02:01 AM
My God! You both need to take a course to improve reading comprehension. I didn't claim that reaching the semis is a huge accomplishment or that she has dominated hard courts. I just think its more likely that she will reach the semis at the AO instead of Kvitova winning outright. That's not even an outrageous prediction, since a "declining" and "regressing" Caro made the semis at the USO.

I understand, and from that view point it does make a little more sense. But this years AO should have a better level of competition (hopefully) so her chances of repeating her results there arent the best, atleast in my opinion. Not to mention the fact that she hasnt tended to do as well at the AO as say the USO.

JCTennisFan
Dec 27th, 2011, 02:04 AM
I think this is basically right. The only thing I'd add is that Woz got knocked out first round at Sydney last year, so she could potentially pick a bundle of points there.

BLAH! :explode: I didnt think about that. Just watch the draw at sydney completely fall apart and Woz win it, thereby making it nearly impossible for anyone to take the top spot from her until after AO :mad:

aha-
Dec 27th, 2011, 03:45 AM
thanks for posting that!
you know, I used to actually respect how epic and crafty Tea's trolling was but lately it's just been messy and desperate:lol:
glad to know there is nothing to respect about this poster, for real!
so yes, bye to him and hopefully for a nice, long while

You're a great example of a moronic fan of her I was talking about.:yeah:

For real.

God, because of the fans like you, I sometimes ashamed to admit I like her on these forums.:o Talking about desperate... re-read yourself ffs.

Kworb
Dec 27th, 2011, 03:46 AM
#1 with a Slam.

Lachy
Dec 27th, 2011, 07:26 AM
I agree with those that have said 2-5.

Brad[le]y.
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:10 AM
You want to know an even better statistic? out of those 4 slams that you mention (09-11 US open, 11 AO) she only beat 2 players ranked in the top ten (Schiavone at the AO 11, Petkovic USO 11). The only other 2 reasonable wins she had that whole time was Sharapova at the 10 USO and Kuzzie at the 11 USO. My how she has dominated the Hardcourt slams the past few years! :rolleyes:

Petkovic wasn't even top 10 then; she became top ten after Carlsbad but lost it a week later. She got back in the top 10 after Beijing.
But Caro still has 2 top 10 wins because of her win of Kuzzie at the 09 USO.

SilverPersian
Dec 27th, 2011, 11:51 AM
BLAH! :explode: I didnt think about that. Just watch the draw at sydney completely fall apart and Woz win it, thereby making it nearly impossible for anyone to take the top spot from her until after AO :mad:

The more I think about it, the more I think this is exactly the kind of thing that would happen :lol:

mac47
Dec 27th, 2011, 01:19 PM
Petra's playing Sidney... I wonder what the points difference is between champion and runner-up. It would be neat to see them duke it out in the final for all the marbles. But perhaps the difference isn't enough. And besides, Petra will need more than the current difference between them, because she will have dropped her Brisbane points from last year, which she is not defending. (Because she doesn't whore tournaments and isn't pressed at all about the #1 ranking.)

marineblue
Dec 27th, 2011, 01:29 PM
Petra's playing Sidney... I wonder what the points difference is between champion and runner-up. It would be neat to see them duke it out in the final for all the marbles. But perhaps the difference isn't enough. And besides, Petra will need more than the current difference between them, because she will have dropped her Brisbane points from last year, which she is not defending. (Because she doesn't whore tournaments and isn't pressed at all about the #1 ranking.)

But her stans are ;)

mac47
Dec 27th, 2011, 01:43 PM
[/B]

But her stans are ;)


Don't confuse Caro-haters with Kvitty stans. (Some people are both, of course. But some actually like both players.)

And don't confuse the pleasure of anticipation with being "pressed."

Caro's "defenders" earn her plenty of haters on TF without her necessarily deserving it. When she loses the ranking, there will probably be a general rejoicing from all sorts of TF members, not just fans of Kvitova.

marineblue
Dec 27th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Don't confuse Caro-haters with Kvitty stans. (Some people are both, of course. But some actually like both players.)

And don't confuse the pleasure of anticipation with being "pressed."

Caro's "defenders" earn her plenty of haters on TF without her necessarily deserving it. When she loses the ranking, there will probably be a general rejoicing from all sorts of TF members, not just fans of Kvitova.

Why do you think I would bother analysing it. For me you are all the same trolls I don't intend to discriminate anyone :)

Bonfire
Dec 27th, 2011, 03:07 PM
You're a great example of a moronic fan of her I was talking about.:yeah:

For real.

God, because of the fans like you, I sometimes ashamed to admit I like her on these forums.:o Talking about desperate... re-read yourself ffs.

:haha:
says the guy who can't get more than one post out before getting banned again.
I'll truly take your words to heart winner:tape:

Morning
Dec 27th, 2011, 03:35 PM
If she could secure #1 not winning any slams figure how easily will she secure her top spot once she wins her first.;)

Novichok
Dec 27th, 2011, 03:37 PM
If she could secure #1 not winning any slams figure how easily will she secure her top spot once she wins her first.;)

tea, I like this new reincarnation. :hearts:

Shadowcat
Dec 27th, 2011, 03:42 PM
If she could secure #1 not winning any slams figure how easily will she secure her top spot once she wins her first.;)

That is exactly so true! Wondered why nobody mentioned about this yet.

Jimmie48
Dec 27th, 2011, 04:40 PM
If she could secure #1 not winning any slams figure how easily will she secure her top spot once she wins her first.;)

That's the one thing haters don't understand. They mock her for not winning slams and fail to understand that that just makes her being #1 this long more impressive, not less.

If she would win slams as well she would be absolutely untouchable... the only thing right now that helps the rest of the field keeping touch with her is that she hasn't won a slam yet.

Morning
Dec 27th, 2011, 05:03 PM
That's the one thing haters don't understand. They mock her for not winning slams and fail to understand that that just makes her being #1 this long more impressive, not less.

If she would win slams as well she would be absolutely untouchable... the only thing right now that helps the rest of the field keeping touch with her is that she hasn't won a slam yet.
Absolutely. The fact she doesn't even need to win slams to be #1 must hurt them the most.:lol:

Well, let's be merciful to them. As the Bible teaches us "let's be merciful to the weakest".

They are just people of a different philosophy. In their faulty imagination a player that wins one random Slam must per se be higher ranked than a player who constantly wins tourneys during the year. Oh, it's hard to change someone's philosophy, we just gotta accept it, unfortunately.;)

Craig.
Dec 27th, 2011, 07:27 PM
Absolutely. The fact she doesn't even need to win slams to be #1 must hurt them the most.:lol:

Well, let's be merciful to them. As the Bible teaches us "let's be merciful to the weakest".

They are just people of a different philosophy. In their faulty imagination a player that wins one random Slam must per se be higher ranked than a player who constantly wins tourneys during the year. Oh, it's hard to change someone's philosophy, we just gotta accept it, unfortunately.;)

tea :bowdown:

misty1
Dec 27th, 2011, 07:33 PM
i think she actually has a good shot at again finishing number 1. She might fall from that position at some point while she tries to implement whatever changes to her game she plans on but the fact that she has little to defend late in the season i think will help her. I think she'll regain it because i honestly cant see petra defending everything next year and the other girls who could threaten her number 1 ranking i dont think will do enough to keep it

lang26
Dec 27th, 2011, 07:40 PM
#2! This bitch isn't going anywhere folks :lol:

LMAO This is too Funny

lang26
Dec 27th, 2011, 07:41 PM
2-5 I dont see her dropping no lower

lang26
Dec 27th, 2011, 07:43 PM
People need to also understand That Maria & Kvitova have ton of point to defend as well during clay and grass. and with Kim & Serena back it not going be easy on them two as well

terjw
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:05 PM
People need to also understand That Maria & Kvitova have ton of point to defend as well during clay and grass. and with Kim & Serena back it not going be easy on them two as well

People need to understand that "points to defend" is completely irrelevant as to who is year end #1 next year. Y/E #1 will go to who accrues most points in 2012 and has nothing to do with how many points you drop from 2011 during the year. How many points you won in 2011 has as much relevance to 2012 Y/E #1 as how many points you won in 2007 or 2002.

JCTennisFan
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:15 PM
Petkovic wasn't even top 10 then; she became top ten after Carlsbad but lost it a week later. She got back in the top 10 after Beijing.
But Caro still has 2 top 10 wins because of her win of Kuzzie at the 09 USO.

I stand corrected... but it still is a less than impressive stat for someone who has gotten to so many HC Slam SFs recently.

misty1
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:18 PM
People need to understand that "points to defend" is completely irrelevant as to who is year end #1 next year. Y/E #1 will go to who accrues most points in 2012 and has nothing to do with how many points you drop from 2011 during the year. How many points you won in 2011 has as much relevance to 2012 Y/E #1 as how many points you won in 2007 or 2002.

they arent completely irrelevant.

debby
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:19 PM
Retired.

JCTennisFan
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:27 PM
That's the one thing haters don't understand. They mock her for not winning slams and fail to understand that that just makes her being #1 this long more impressive, not less.

If she would win slams as well she would be absolutely untouchable... the only thing right now that helps the rest of the field keeping touch with her is that she hasn't won a slam yet.

Eh, I cant agree with this. Ill use an example to back up my opinion on this matter. Who was the best player in 2001? Most everyone would either say Capriati or Venus... but who ended the year as the #1 in the world? Davenport... whom is a great player but was not the best player that year.

Wozniacki's #1 stat would be impressive if there werent ways to exploit your ranking. Certain tournmants throughout the year have weaker draws than others but still award the same amount of points... and Wozniacki has an unusual habit of participating in those tournmants and padding her ranking as a result. Then when she goes into Slams she has easy draws due to her high rank and is able to go relatively deep without actually beating any high ranked players to get there.

TheHangover
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:28 PM
i think 4 or 5, i would say
serena, kvitova, sharapova in the top 3, i don't know the order, then i would put clijsters or wozniacki, it depends on kim's commitment, but there is also stosur variable, anyway i think 4 or 5

dsanders06
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:35 PM
This poll is proof that the Woztards' claims that GM is biased against her are total shit :lol: Polls here ALWAYS overestimate her - I remember when the poll for the YEC indicated Woz would go through to the semis, and I'm pretty sure she topped the WWW polls for both Tokyo and Beijing too...and I'm pretty sure these poll results will be seen as too optimistic/pessimisstic (depending on your viewpoint ;) ) a year hence :lol:

terjw
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:47 PM
they arent completely irrelevant.

Sorry to inform you - but 2011 points have no effect (good or bad) on 2012 Y/E ranking whatsoever. Just saying they have any relevance doesn't change this simple fact.

terjw
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:49 PM
This poll is proof that the Woztards' claims that GM is biased against her are total shit :lol: Polls here ALWAYS overestimate her - I remember when the poll for the YEC indicated Woz would go through to the semis, and I'm pretty sure she topped the WWW polls for both Tokyo and Beijing too...and I'm pretty sure these poll results will be seen as too optimistic/pessimisstic (depending on your viewpoint ;) ) a year hence :lol:

Get a life.

dsanders06
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:50 PM
Get a life.

One of the best ripostes in the history of Tennis Forum :yeah:

misty1
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:55 PM
Sorry to inform you - but 2011 points have no effect (good or bad) on 2012 Y/E ranking whatsoever. Just saying they have any relevance doesn't change this simple fact.

why do you say they have no effect?

i dont know why we are arguing anyway, i am on your side in thinking that caroline wont fall that far..even think she can finish # 1

backhandsmash
Dec 27th, 2011, 08:56 PM
Sorry to inform you - but 2011 points have no effect (good or bad) on 2012 Y/E ranking whatsoever. Just saying they have any relevance doesn't change this simple fact.

You are both right and not so right. 2011 points have a relevance to your ranking, and therefore your seeding, throughout the year.

Of course that won't matter too much to the player in question in this thread. ;)

marineblue
Dec 27th, 2011, 09:04 PM
Eh, I cant agree with this. Ill use an example to back up my opinion on this matter. Who was the best player in 2001? Most everyone would either say Capriati or Venus... but who ended the year as the #1 in the world? Davenport... whom is a great player but was not the best player that year.

Wozniacki's #1 stat would be impressive if there werent ways to exploit your ranking. Certain tournmants throughout the year have weaker draws than others but still award the same amount of points... and Wozniacki has an unusual habit of participating in those tournmants and padding her ranking as a result. Then when she goes into Slams she has easy draws due to her high rank and is able to go relatively deep without actually beating any high ranked players to get there.

Hmm, it might be easy draws for her but not for other members of top 10 who get beaten by 'easy draws' players quite regularly... I'd say that some of them might be easy draw themselves.

madmax
Dec 27th, 2011, 09:32 PM
Hmm, it might be easy draws for her but not for other members of top 10 who get beaten by 'easy draws' players quite regularly... I'd say that some of them might be easy draw themselves.

how would you explain that no elite player participated in Brussels and New Haven events though? These tourneys offer quite a lot of ranking points and final opponents were such greats of a game as Peng and Cetkovska...let's not forget Charleston and a final against mental giant Vesnina too:worship:

JCTennisFan
Dec 27th, 2011, 09:42 PM
how would you explain that no elite player participated in Brussels and New Haven events though? These tourneys offer quite a lot of ranking points and final opponents were such greats of a game as Peng and Cetkovska...let's not forget Charleston and a final against mental giant Vesnina too:worship:

You are correct. The whole idea of having a non-ITF tournmant the week before a slam makes no sense. Naturally the top players will want to rest up the week before, therefor making those tournmants very weak on competition. Those are the tournmants that are just begging to be exploited, and they either need to move them back a week or rethink their usefulness entirely.

Aramitz_II
Dec 27th, 2011, 10:44 PM
Sorry to inform you - but 2011 points have no effect (good or bad) on 2012 Y/E ranking whatsoever. Just saying they have any relevance doesn't change this simple fact.

Total irrelevance no. On the mental level they may mean a lot. Besides that the actual position the year going on will influence the draws. A bad first half year may give her a difficult second half. If 2011 had been opposite in terms of her performance then a bad first half year wouldn't give any trouble.

terjw
Dec 27th, 2011, 11:12 PM
Total irrelevance no. On the mental level they may mean a lot. Besides that the actual position the year going on will influence the draws. A bad first half year may give her a difficult second half. If 2011 had been opposite in terms of her performance then a bad first half year wouldn't give any trouble.

All ifs and couldas and speculation. And as for seedings and draws - this is small stuff and the mental aspect and draws isn't the reason people talk about points dropping off anyway :lol:. The results in 2011 and dropping points from 2011 don't have any significance mathematically as to who ends up as #1.

As for "Easy draws" arguments. These are invaraibly used as an excuse when someone's favourite doesn't win. In the biggest tournaments and in slams - seeds #1 - #4 get a small inbuilt advantage over the others in the draw at the start. But firstly - #1 doesn't actually get an inbuilt advantage over #2, #3 or #4. And that's leaving aside that draws opening up randomly when big names lose early. And leavuing aside that we always nowadays seem to have dangerous players and big names that could be drawn early who are down in the rankings.

terjw
Dec 27th, 2011, 11:24 PM
You are correct. The whole idea of having a non-ITF tournmant the week before a slam makes no sense. Naturally the top players will want to rest up the week before, therefor making those tournmants very weak on competition. Those are the tournmants that are just begging to be exploited, and they either need to move them back a week or rethink their usefulness entirely.

Some players want to play the week before a slam. Some don't. AO winner and Wimbledon winner played in final in the tournament the week before those slams and preferred to play them than "rest up".

Matt01
Dec 27th, 2011, 11:57 PM
how would you explain that no elite player participated in Brussels and New Haven events though? These tourneys offer quite a lot of ranking points and final opponents were such greats of a game as Peng and Cetkovska...let's not forget Charleston and a final against mental giant Vesnina too:worship:


Lots of top players participated in New Haven and Brussels...the weakest Premiers this year (with the fewest Top 10 players in the field) were Moscow, San Diego and Paris (where Kvitova won), all of which Woz didn't even play...

Matt01
Dec 27th, 2011, 11:59 PM
As for "Easy draws" arguments.


All the "easy draws arguments" are simply another attempt from the delusionals/haters to deny giving Woz any credit for her accomplishments, it's as simple as that.

Kooyong
Dec 28th, 2011, 12:39 AM
Some players want to play the week before a slam. Some don't. AO winner and Wimbledon winner played in final in the tournament the week before those slams and preferred to play them than "rest up".

I am not sure if the Australian Open was at the end of Feb and there was five or six weeks of tournaments across Asia and Australia that the top players would play the week before the Aussie

Fighterpova
Dec 28th, 2011, 12:42 AM
I don't even like Wozniacki,but I kinda feel sorry for her :awww:
I mean she is trying so hard to win a Slam, but she can't.
I really hope that one day she finds her best tennis again and wins a Slam one day :bigclap:

Best of luck to her in 2012 and to everyone else too :cheer:

Dominika23
Dec 28th, 2011, 01:33 AM
I don't even like Wozniacki,but I kinda feel sorry for her :awww:
I mean she is trying so hard to win a Slam, but she can't.
I really hope that one day she finds her best tennis again and wins a Slam one day :bigclap:

Best of luck to her in 2012 and to everyone else too :cheer:

I can Honestly say this is one best comment I read in a while from a non-Wozniacki Fan. I wish the best of Luck to Maria S. as well and hope she win a slam, It be nice if both our girl win a Slam in 2012 :worship:

JCTennisFan
Dec 28th, 2011, 01:55 AM
I can Honestly say this is one best comment I read in a while from a non-Wozniacki Fan. I wish the best of Luck to Maria S. as well and hope she win a slam, It be nice if both our girl win a Slam in 2012 :worship:

I really dont think that many people actually "hate" Wozniacki, I know I dont. I just think that alot of people have the "shit or get off the pot" mentality when thinking about her. :spit:

She gets talked about so much and yet everytime manages to underperform at the Slams. If she was to lose number 1 then she wouldnt be talked about as much and people would stop feeling so crabby towards her. Also if she won a slam, and justifed her rank, then people would also probably begin to see her in a less critical light.

No matter how you slice it, ending the year as number 1 twice in a row and not even getting to a Slam F that whole time is underachievement.

mac47
Dec 28th, 2011, 02:29 AM
Caro is not a person whom it is easy to dislike. She isn't nicknamed "Sunshine" for nothing.

Her tennis is not entertaining to me personally, but I understand that there are people who like to watch long rallies and defense. I would be happy to see Caro win a slam for her own sake, because she is charming and it would be nice to see her happy.

Her fans on TF are another story.

Wannabeknowitall
Dec 28th, 2011, 05:11 AM
I don't know if that's true. She's had some clunker losses this year (Vinci, McHale), but she's not susceptible to losing to anyone in the top 50.

I don't consider those clunker losses. Their games match up well against Wozniacki. Vinci hits with top spin on her forehand and then slices the backhand and finds ways to finish points off at net.
McHale if she's given time, has a lot of spin on her forehand, and it speeds off the court.

I consider Wozniacki's lost against Hantuchova to be a clunker.
Daniela played great but I find it just unorthodox for Wozniacki not to anticipate the down the line shots, especially on a surface like clay where if she just would have held her ground, she could have won it in three.

Kooyong
Dec 28th, 2011, 06:03 AM
I consider Wozniacki's lost against Hantuchova to be a clunker.
Daniela played great but I find it just unorthodox for Wozniacki not to anticipate the down the line shots, especially on a surface like clay where if she just would have held her ground, she could have won it in three.

I think this is a bit unfair to Daniela for I watched the match and at that stage of the season she was playing good solid Tennis. Daniela has the ability to beat most players apart from maybe the real big hitters which of course Caro is not a big hitter.

marineblue
Dec 28th, 2011, 07:58 AM
how would you explain that no elite player participated in Brussels and New Haven events though? These tourneys offer quite a lot of ranking points and final opponents were such greats of a game as Peng and Cetkovska...let's not forget Charleston and a final against mental giant Vesnina too:worship:

There were elite players, it's just that by the troll logic 'elite' is nobody who plays against Caroline :rolleyes:

marineblue
Dec 28th, 2011, 08:00 AM
I think this is a bit unfair to Daniela for I watched the match and at that stage of the season she was playing good solid Tennis. Daniela has the ability to beat most players apart from maybe the real big hitters which of course Caro is not a big hitter.

I agree, it was a great match from Daniela. Those who are too quick to put her down should learn a bit more about her. At her best she beat players like Henin in the past.

aloeball
Dec 28th, 2011, 08:04 AM
A lot of people and myself have underestimated Caroline, I've changed my POV a bit. Playing tennis again, a topspin crosscourt forehand is really tricky to deal with. Sure it's on the forehand side, but it's jumping up high and pushing you out of court.

Caro does that really well and the amount of air that she gives her enables her to recover from a defensive position.

Watching the YEC again, I saw a glimmer of Caro's potential - what's funny is, even if she starts to add more power and flatten the ball, her consistency goes downhill and is pretty much in par with the other players.

I'd say top 10 at least. I mean of Aga can, why can't this girl?

I love to think Caro as a baseline marker of how good or consistent your game is in regards to unforced errors and winners ratio.

terjw
Dec 28th, 2011, 10:07 AM
I am not sure if the Australian Open was at the end of Feb and there was five or six weeks of tournaments across Asia and Australia that the top players would play the week before the Aussie

If, woulda, I think blaa blaa blaa. I could just as well say if Cinci was scheduled the week before USO if we play that game.

To say top players don't like playing the week before a slam per se has no basis in fact since two of the slams they do. And the other two slams - the problem is there are two very big tournaments 2 and 3 weekks before the slam that they are playing.

So the real problem is playing 3 tournaments in a row before a slam for RG and the USO making 4 in a row in all. Not the rubbish about players not wanting to play the week before the slam per se as shown by AO and Wimbledon.

Kooyong
Dec 28th, 2011, 11:56 AM
If, woulda, I think blaa blaa blaa. I could just as well say if Cinci was scheduled the week before USO if we play that game.

To say top players don't like playing the week before a slam per se has no basis in fact since two of the slams they do. And the other two slams - the problem is there are two very big tournaments 2 and 3 weekks before the slam that they are playing.

So the real problem is playing 3 tournaments in a row before a slam for RG and the USO making 4 in a row in all. Not the rubbish about players not wanting to play the week before the slam per se as shown by AO and Wimbledon.

My comment was hypothetical

I think there are some players that have set their schedules around having the week before a slam off with the Australian being treated differently due to the timing of the event.

I recall back in the 1990s the Canadian Open was the week before the U.S Open and it always seemed to have strong draws.

doomsday
Dec 28th, 2011, 12:05 PM
There were elite players, it's just that by the troll logic 'elite' is nobody who plays against Caroline :rolleyes:

What? There weren't any top 10 or top 20 in any of those events or maybe just Peng and Schiavone in Brussels :lol:

Matt01
Dec 28th, 2011, 12:14 PM
What? There weren't any top 10 or top 20 in any of those events or maybe just Peng and Schiavone in Brussels :lol:


:scratch:

terjw
Dec 28th, 2011, 12:25 PM
My comment was hypothetical

I think there are some players that have set their schedules around having the week before a slam off with the Australian being treated differently due to the timing of the event.

I recall back in the 1990s the Canadian Open was the week before the U.S Open and it always seemed to have strong draws.

Yep - definitely agree that some players don't want to play the week before a slam. Sharapova never likes to play the week before a slam. But it doesn't mean all players don't like it or that it's a bad thing for all players to do.

This all came about from a ridiculous claim that it's bad to play the week before a slam for all top players. And players who do so are only doing it to "exploit the ranking system". This is just made up nonsense with no basis in fact at all.

Fighterpova
Dec 28th, 2011, 05:36 PM
I can Honestly say this is one best comment I read in a while from a non-Wozniacki Fan. I wish the best of Luck to Maria S. as well and hope she win a slam, It be nice if both our girl win a Slam in 2012 :worship:

Thanks, I hope so too :D

cranberry~
Dec 28th, 2011, 07:25 PM
I can't think of any reason why won't she defend her #1 rankings in 2012. In any way, to bet against the world's leader is a risky, unsafe ana even adventurous bet. Judging from this poll's results I recommend to the most on this board to never predict anything on real money.

Brad[le]y.
Dec 28th, 2011, 07:50 PM
will you ever give up? :hysteric:

Kairi
Dec 28th, 2011, 08:14 PM
he's back :haha:

MB.
Dec 28th, 2011, 08:17 PM
Hard to see her leaving the top 5. Unless she completely goes wonkers/changes her game/actually just focuses on slams :lol:

JCTennisFan
Dec 30th, 2011, 10:33 PM
I don't consider those clunker losses. Their games match up well against Wozniacki. Vinci hits with top spin on her forehand and then slices the backhand and finds ways to finish points off at net.
McHale if she's given time, has a lot of spin on her forehand, and it speeds off the court.

I consider Wozniacki's lost against Hantuchova to be a clunker.Daniela played great but I find it just unorthodox for Wozniacki not to anticipate the down the line shots, especially on a surface like clay where if she just would have held her ground, she could have won it in three.

Really??!? I personally believe Hantuchova is a solid tier b player who occasionally flirted with the lower rung of the tier a players. With that being said, she surely as hell is a better competitior and player than either Mchale or Vinci... by a good margin.

mac47
Dec 30th, 2011, 11:05 PM
Dani H is a ball striker. She has more talent than McHale or Vinci. No shame in anyone losing to her.

claypova
Dec 30th, 2011, 11:06 PM
but losing so badly to Hantuchova on clay is a bit worrying :p

dsanders06
Dec 30th, 2011, 11:12 PM
Hantuchova while a good player at her best isn't even particularly powerful compared to some of the REAL power players, so the fact she dismissed Woz so easily (on a surface where her super-flat strokes reap less rewards than anywhere else) was just pathetic :lol:

Jimmie48
Dec 30th, 2011, 11:38 PM
I'll take your word on it, you're the expert when it comes to being pathetic :)

Brad[le]y.
Dec 30th, 2011, 11:43 PM
her match against Hantuchova was just embarrassing. probably the worst performance from a World #1 at a slam; second only to Legend's masterful Wimbledon 1999 performance :worship:

JCTennisFan
Dec 31st, 2011, 09:44 PM
her match against Hantuchova was just embarrassing. probably the worst performance from a World #1 at a slam; second only to Legend's masterful Wimbledon 1999 performance :worship:

And the Hingis loss was to a player who would get into the top 5... so I cant see that being some horrendous loss either. I love how Hantuchova's flat strokes are bad for clay but yet Pierce and Ivanovic's flat strokes are somehow made for the clay... does anyone see the lack of sound reasoning in that statement?

Mynarco
Dec 31st, 2011, 09:47 PM
5lHkyVUEWnk
that winner at 2:10 still has me in stitches

Brad[le]y.
Dec 31st, 2011, 09:48 PM
And the Hingis loss was to a player who would get into the top 5... so I cant see that being some horrendous loss either. I love how Hantuchova's flat strokes are bad for clay but yet Pierce and Ivanovic's flat strokes are somehow made for the clay... does anyone see the lack of sound reasoning in that statement?

how about Ruano Pascaul then in 2001 :sobbing:

JCTennisFan
Dec 31st, 2011, 10:07 PM
how about Ruano Pascaul then in 2001 :sobbing:

I just checked Pascual's highest singles rank..... it was 28. So I dont think she counts. top 5 >> 28. :wavey: Hingis' 01 was certaintly alot worse than her 99 season, atleast in my opinion.

Calvin M.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 10:48 PM
#6-10 because I don't see her winning more than one Slam and she's got tons of pts to defend (I foresee some early losses). Then there's the issue of Serena's comeback. haha My bad. I'm biased.