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View Full Version : Players who have won against all of the Big 4 (Dani needs to solidify her spot)


thegreendestiny
Dec 21st, 2011, 06:04 AM
...and by Big 4, I'm talking about the Big 4 of the past decade, Serena, Justine, Venus and Kim.

Maria
Svetlana :tape:
Dinara
Elena Dementieva :worship:
Nadia Petrova
Marion Bartoli :speakles:
Daniela Hantuchova :cheer:


Notable players who are were close to achieving it:

JJ (now that Justine is gone, she will never achieve that feat :rolleyes:)
Na (same as JJ, but never had the chance to face Juju in her career :sobbing:)
Bepa (yup, Justine also denied her that feat)
Daniela (only Kim stands in her way so she can still make it) :cheer:
Jelena Dokic (needs a win against Serena)

Big 4's notable bitches:

Caroline Wozniacki - she ended as No.1 for two seasons but has yet to score a single win against any of them :worship:
Ana Ivanovic - scored only once against Venus at AO, but that's it
Agnieszka Radwanska - same as Ana, scored a fluke win against Venus :tape:

I no longer had to include Martina, Lindsay and Amelie.

Inger67
Dec 21st, 2011, 06:06 AM
...and by Big 4, I'm talking about the Big 4 of the past decade, Serena, Justine, Venus and Kim.

Maria
Svetlana :tape:
Dinara
Elena Dementieva :worship:
Nadia Petrova


Notable players who are were close to achieving it:

JJ (now that Justine is gone, she will never achieve that feat :rolleyes:)
Na (same as JJ, but never had the chance to face Juju in her career :sobbing:)
Bepa (yup, Justine also denied her that feat)
Daniela (only Kim stands in her way so she can still make it) :mad:

Big 4's notable bitches:

Caroline Wozniacki - she ended as No.1 for two seasons but has yet to score a single win against any of them :worship:
Ana Ivanovic - scored only once against Venus at AO, but that's it


I no longer had to include Martina, Lindsay and Amelie.

Should be Venus too :tape:

Pump-it-UP
Dec 21st, 2011, 06:08 AM
Bartoli

thegreendestiny
Dec 21st, 2011, 06:15 AM
Bartoli

:speakles:

How could I not think of her?

:lol:

thegreendestiny
Dec 21st, 2011, 06:17 AM
Should be Venus too :tape:

Daniela finally scored one against Venus this year at Eastbourne. Half of TF had a cocktail party right after. :rolleyes:

cowsonice
Dec 21st, 2011, 06:20 AM
Nadia :worship:

Kəv.
Dec 21st, 2011, 06:21 AM
Stosur has Serena & Justine.

Not Kim :sobbing: (I think)
Venus :sobbing: Its hard for Sammy to beat her when she is always injured now.

thegreendestiny
Dec 21st, 2011, 06:29 AM
I would have included Stosur in the Notable list but she has both Kim and Venus against her.

Yoncé
Dec 21st, 2011, 08:05 AM
Stosur has Serena & Justine.

Not Kim :sobbing: (I think)
Venus :sobbing: Its hard for Sammy to beat her when she is always injured now.

Probably more so the fact that Venus is the worst possible match up type for Stosur...

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 21st, 2011, 09:42 AM
C'mon Dani Anotox, if she plays like she did at RG against against the best player in the world Karolina she can definitely make the list :cheer:

Kworb
Dec 21st, 2011, 10:22 AM
Shaughnessy has done it too. And Pierce. And Seles obviously.

Patty was close. :oh: But 0-11 against Venus. :facepalm: If only she had won that match in Stanford.

Myskina never beat Serena. Rubin never beat Kim. Capriati never beat Venus.

vozas
Dec 21st, 2011, 10:50 AM
Why on earth is Madusah considered time and time again one of the "big 4"? I agree with Jameka, Ebony and Handnin but why Madusah?

Bluish
Dec 21st, 2011, 10:59 AM
Dokic has beaten Justine, Venus and Kim - just not Serena :sobbing:

thegreendestiny
Dec 21st, 2011, 10:59 AM
Why on earth is Madusah considered time and time again one of the "big 4"? I agree with Jameka, Ebony and Handnin but why Madusah?

She may be the weakest link among the four but lets be honest, she had outstanding record against pretenders... plus, she is the Tier II queen. :yeah:

sammy01
Dec 21st, 2011, 11:05 AM
She may be the weakest link among the four but lets be honest, she had outstanding record against pretenders... plus, she is the Tier II queen. :yeah:

also how about she is the 4th best player of that generation of players that came through, no matter how much it kills sharapova fans to admit kim is better than maria.

Miss Amor
Dec 21st, 2011, 11:26 AM
also how about she is the 4th best player of that generation of players that came through, no matter how much it kills sharapova fans to admit kim is better than maria.

Hingis is, even though she didn't win slams later in her career, she was a part of the Serena/Venus/Henin generation.


I personally think it should be a big 3 as Henin/Venus and Serena have completely overtaken the rest of the players. Kim is quite close to some of the other multiple slam winners of the generation and further away from the big 3. If Kim is included in a 'big 4' then one can make a case for just about any player who has won between 3-5 slams to be in there too (including Sharapova/Davenport/Hingis)

sammy01
Dec 21st, 2011, 11:55 AM
Hingis is, even though she didn't win slams later in her career, she was a part of the Serena/Venus/Henin generation.


I personally think it should be a big 3 as Henin/Venus and Serena have completely overtaken the rest of the players. Kim is quite close to some of the other multiple slam winners of the generation and further away from the big 3. If Kim is included in a 'big 4' then one can make a case for just about any player who has won between 3-5 slams to be in there too (including Sharapova/Davenport/Hingis)

hingis and davenport bridged the gap between generation, hence why when serena, venus, henin and kim came along both didn't win a slam again. i could understand a case for sharapova, but she isn't in clijsters league, every stat going kim owns maria in.

they were also the big '4' as if you look at the slams in 2003, kim made at least the semis in all 4, same with henin, serena made semis of the 3 she played and venus 2 of the 3 she played. they were the 4 players head and shoulders above everyone else as 13 of 14 slam semis made by the 4 of them in 2003.

Miss Amor
Dec 21st, 2011, 12:02 PM
hingis and davenport bridged the gap between generation, hence why when serena, venus, henin and kim came along both didn't win a slam again. i could understand a case for sharapova, but she isn't in clijsters league, every stat going kim owns maria in.

they were also the big '4' as if you look at the slams in 2003, kim made at least the semis in all 4, same with henin, serena made semis of the 3 she played and venus 2 of the 3 she played. they were the 4 players head and shoulders above everyone else as 13 of 14 slam semis made by the 4 of them in 2003.

Davenport was contesting for #1 and making slam finals when Kim was having her best season in 2005. Both Hingis and Davenport competed with Venus in her prime in 00-01, Serena in her prime in 02-03, Henin in her prime in 06-07 and are about in the same age bracket.

IMO Davenport/ Hingis/Venus/Serena are in the same generation, they might have peaked at different times but their careers took place at pretty much the same time and overlapped.

Clijsters was incredibly consistent, IMO she is much closer to Hingis/Davenport/Sharapova in achievements than she is to Venus/Henin to constitute a TOP 4.

vozas
Dec 21st, 2011, 12:03 PM
hingis and davenport bridged the gap between generation, hence why when serena, venus, henin and kim came along both didn't win a slam again. i could understand a case for sharapova, but she isn't in clijsters league, every stat going kim owns maria in.

they were also the big '4' as if you look at the slams in 2003, kim made at least the semis in all 4, same with henin, serena made semis of the 3 she played and venus 2 of the 3 she played. they were the 4 players head and shoulders above everyone else as 13 of 14 slam semis made by the 4 of them in 2003.

So 2003 = the noughties?

aloeball
Dec 21st, 2011, 12:07 PM
I personally think it should be a big 3 as Henin/Venus and Serena have completely overtaken the rest of the players. Kim is quite close to some of the other multiple slam winners of the generation and further away from the big 3. If Kim is included in a 'big 4' then one can make a case for just about any player who has won between 3-5 slams to be in there too (including Sharapova/Davenport/Hingis)

I agree with this.

they were also the big '4' as if you look at the slams in 2003, kim made at least the semis in all 4, same with henin, serena made semis of the 3 she played and venus 2 of the 3 she played. they were the 4 players head and shoulders above everyone else as 13 of 14 slam semis made by the 4 of them in 2003.

Kim to me never really is part of the big 4. I think referring to 2003 is a bit bleh, just a good consistent year. Shes really consistent and relatively 'above average' to put it very loosely. In my eyes, Kim winning the slams in her return just shows how weak the WTA really is. I mean, how hard was it for this girl to actually win a slam pre-retirement? She's in the league of Sharapova, step lower than Venus, Henin and Serena. Lets not forget how many GS finals Venus reached as well.

As for players who beat the big 'four' then a kudos to Bartoli though.

Lighter
Dec 21st, 2011, 12:12 PM
Anyways, even if you add or switch Kim with Lindsey Davenport in big 4, Marion Bartoli will remain one of players who have won at least a match against all of the Big 4 or big 5.

vozas
Dec 21st, 2011, 12:26 PM
Anyways, even if you add or switch Kim with Lindsey Davenport in big 4, Marion Bartoli will remain one of players who have won at least a match against all of the Big 4 or big 5.

Cake has never beaten Maria though.

sammy01
Dec 21st, 2011, 01:11 PM
kim has more titles then serena, more weeks at number 1 than venus a winning H2H with henin and venus, more YEC than both venus and henin, the longest win streak at any slam by any of the 4 of them. she yes has the least slams but she is also the youngest and only one of the 4 who holds a slam currently.

Lighter
Dec 21st, 2011, 03:49 PM
Cake has never beaten Maria though.True and not true : http://www.itftennis.com/juniors/players/headtohead.asp?player=100000135&opponent=100013223 ;)

BuTtErFrEnA
Dec 21st, 2011, 04:11 PM
kim has more titles then serena,

more weeks at number 1 than venus

a winning H2H with henin and venus,

more YEC than both venus and henin,

the longest win streak at any slam by any of the 4 of them.

she yes has the least slams but she is also the youngest and only one of the 4 who holds a slam currently.

13 > 4 lindsay also has way more titles, so does hingis, so does jh....and they have all beaten serena more than twice....but you'd never put them in the same league given how far ahead serena is in slam total

7 > 4, and caro, dinara and jj both have more weeks at #1 than vinas

7 > 4 both times

a win streak that spans missing a few years and hence she can't lose...not the same as say venus who won Wimbledon 2007, 2008, final in 2009; jh won RG 2003, 05, 06, 07...of course your win streak will be more impressive once you can't lose


if we go by age then kim is overrated since it took her all this time to scrape 4 slams, and of course she will be the only one to hold a slam - she's the only one who played a slam at close to full strength and ISN'T retired...(jh retired, serena coming back from PE after almost a year out, venus having injury the whole year bar a few tournaments)

Linguae^
Dec 21st, 2011, 04:26 PM
Why on earth is Madusah considered time and time again one of the "big 4"? I agree with Jameka, Ebony and Handnin but why Madusah?

Because of her second career, case closed.

monmonito
Dec 21st, 2011, 04:37 PM
go Dani you can still make it!

heejin
Dec 21st, 2011, 06:38 PM
Marion :fiery:

Ferg
Dec 21st, 2011, 07:01 PM
Marion :inlove:

Brad[le]y.
Dec 21st, 2011, 10:27 PM
Marion :worship:

with wins over Serena and Justine at Wimbledon :worship:

Tennisfan06
Dec 21st, 2011, 10:28 PM
Marion :hearts:

Nicolás89
Dec 21st, 2011, 10:32 PM
Why on earth is Madusah considered time and time again one of the "big 4"? I agree with Jameka, Ebony and Handnin but why Madusah?

:sobbing:

frenchie
Dec 21st, 2011, 10:43 PM
Myskina deserves a honorable mention!

She beat Henin, Clijsters and Venus AT LEAST 2 TIMES EACH + other tied losses
She never beat Serena though despite leading 6/4 - 3*/0 at the 2004 YEC.....

Joelina
Dec 21st, 2011, 10:56 PM
Should be Venus too :tape:

but is not, u mad?

Smitten
Dec 22nd, 2011, 11:34 AM
:lol: @ people saying Kim is better than Legend.

Even 2002 version of Legend could have won a slam in 2009-2011.

danieln1
Dec 22nd, 2011, 12:59 PM
Why on earth is Madusah considered time and time again one of the "big 4"? I agree with Jameka, Ebony and Handnin but why Madusah?

This.

The only big 4 I ever heard is Serena, Venus, Hingis and Davenport. Serena, Venus and Henin are in a totally superior league than Kimberly.

thegreendestiny
Dec 23rd, 2011, 10:16 AM
*Updated

Jelena Dokic added to notable players. She still has a chance since only Serena stands on her way.

thegreendestiny
Jan 4th, 2012, 11:14 AM
Can Daniela do it tomorrow? :bounce:

Alejandrawrrr
Jan 4th, 2012, 11:42 AM
Sadly, doubtful.

rimon
Jan 4th, 2012, 11:51 AM
Well she 100% cannot do it tomorrow, as she isn't playing Kim tomorrow. I doubt that she will, though, if they do play, because Kim is a nightmare match-up for her.

Shivank17
Jan 4th, 2012, 01:25 PM
also how about she is the 4th best player of that generation of players that came through, no matter how much it kills sharapova fans to admit kim is better than maria.

Maria is younger too. :oh:
Or maybe it kills certain Madusah fans like you that Masha has more slams than what Kim had at Maria's age. :awww: :hug: :hug:

Joelina
Jan 4th, 2012, 02:11 PM
Daniela is now so awesome and she can be even more after beating Kim :drool:

Tennis Ball
Jan 4th, 2012, 02:15 PM
Why on earth is Madusah considered time and time again one of the "big 4"? I agree with Jameka, Ebony and Handnin but why Madusah?

Obviously your join date is too late

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2012, 03:18 PM
There is a reason they are called the Big 4. It started back in 2003 when they were dominating everything and talent-wise and achievement wise, they are the best players of the 2000s by far.

And Davenport and Hingis are from a different generation so they don't really count.

John.
Jan 6th, 2012, 10:46 AM
Dani joins the list - Not the way she would have wanted to I'm sure

thegreendestiny
Jan 6th, 2012, 10:52 AM
Dani :bounce:

I'm sorry, but a win is a win :cheer:

tennis-insomniac
Jan 6th, 2012, 10:52 AM
I think now you can count Hantuchova in :rolleyes:

Jarrett
Jan 6th, 2012, 10:54 AM
Woohoo!

_Cell-chuk
Jan 6th, 2012, 10:56 AM
This.

The only big 4 I ever heard is Serena, Venus, Hingis and Davenport. Serena, Venus and Henin are in a totally superior league than Kimberly.

Around 2001-2003 when Jen was in relatively good shape, they used to call Serena-Venus-Jennifer-Lindsay the Big 4 because of the power they had in their shots.

Noctis
Jan 6th, 2012, 10:56 AM
That counted ? :spit: wow so desperate,she couldn't even win that first set

thegreendestiny
Jan 6th, 2012, 10:59 AM
That counted ? :spit: wow so desperate,she couldn't even win that first set

Yes it did. I'm sorry that Na can never make it in the list. :wavey:

Joelina
Jan 6th, 2012, 11:00 AM
haters gonna hate...Daniela would maybe have win that match, she started to play well so we will never find out now

congratz Daniela

Mistress of Evil
Jan 6th, 2012, 11:02 AM
yay, Danka is quite the wig-snatcher :bowdown:

Noctis
Jan 6th, 2012, 11:04 AM
Yes it did. I'm sorry that Na can never make it in the list. :wavey:

It's ok, She has a slam.and beaten great players like
Masha,Rena,Pierce,Venus,Kim, I take all that achievement over a mere win over cheatine

Bluish
Jan 6th, 2012, 11:20 AM
Congrats Daniela :kiss:

Miss Amor
Jan 6th, 2012, 12:17 PM
Her record vs Serena/Venus/Kim is 3-27 now :lol: such an amazing achievement :bowdown:

Just Do It
Jan 6th, 2012, 12:19 PM
Dokic has beaten Justine, Venus and Kim - just not Serena :sobbing:

She will get it at the AO :cool:

Mistress of Evil
Jan 6th, 2012, 12:20 PM
Her record vs Serena/Venus/Kim is 3-27 now :lol: such an amazing achievement :bowdown:

one of thess almighty wins being a retirement :worship::worship::worship:

Joelina
Jan 6th, 2012, 03:00 PM
LOL, so many haters can´t stand that Daniela is on the list :tape::lol:

Albireo
Jan 6th, 2012, 03:07 PM
When did Hantuchova beat Venus?

vixter
Jan 6th, 2012, 03:13 PM
I don't think Daniela should be on the list. I'll give her the match against Kim, they played 1.5 sets and she was the last woman standing. But a WO against Serena? That counts for nothing. She does not belong on the list.

John.
Jan 6th, 2012, 03:19 PM
When did Hantuchova beat Venus?

Eastbourne last year

I don't think Daniela should be on the list. I'll give her the match against Kim, they played 1.5 sets and she was the last woman standing. But a WO against Serena? That counts for nothing. She does not belong on the list.

She beat Serena at the AO 06

Albireo
Jan 6th, 2012, 03:52 PM
Eastbourne last year


Ah, thanks. I'd have checked the WTA website, but it never loads correctly on my computer.

Sammo
Jan 6th, 2012, 03:57 PM
:drool:

Charlatan
Jan 6th, 2012, 05:23 PM
amazing thread :drool:

Fighterpova
Jan 6th, 2012, 05:28 PM
Venus is still in "Big 4" :sobbing:

The Top 4 should now be Jameka, Henin, Kimberly and Martha :rocker2:

I mean I love Venus, but her time has passed :sad:

Fighterpova
Jan 6th, 2012, 05:29 PM
I don't think Daniela should be on the list. I'll give her the match against Kim, they played 1.5 sets and she was the last woman standing. But a WO against Serena? That counts for nothing. She does not belong on the list.

She beat Serena in AO 06 6-1 7-6 :shrug:

leebeasy
Jan 6th, 2012, 05:35 PM
:cheer: Dani!

volta
Jan 6th, 2012, 05:39 PM
Venus is still in "Big 4" :sobbing:

The Top 4 should now be Jameka, Henin, Kimberly and Martha :rocker2:

I mean I love Venus, but her time has passed :sad:

And the time of a retired player hasn't? :unsure:

SAISAI-GOAT
Jan 6th, 2012, 05:42 PM
including Dani :weirdo:

Na should be included because she beat Serena, Venus and Kim ... just never had the opportunity of drawing JuJu :sobbing:

Charlatan
Jan 7th, 2012, 03:35 AM
just I was reading this thread earlier, hantuchova finally qualified :bounce: :lol:

rockstar
Jan 7th, 2012, 03:45 AM
go daniela :lol:

Stonerpova
Jan 7th, 2012, 03:49 AM
Why do retirement wins count?

rockstar
Jan 7th, 2012, 04:19 AM
Why do retirement wins count?

generally retirement wins do count as wins, although of less value obviously, but nonetheless. there are players who do retire when they are losing (cough, stevenson) so yeah...

KBdoubleu
Jan 7th, 2012, 04:26 AM
Venus is still in "Big 4" :sobbing:

The Top 4 should now be Jameka, Henin, Kimberly and Martha :rocker2:

I mean I love Venus, but her time has passed :sad:

And Henin's time hasn't passed? She's retired. Also, Venus has won a slam more recently than Sharapova.

tennisforadults
Jan 7th, 2012, 04:36 AM
I like Daniela but Clijsters retiring doesn't equate to being beaten. Having her on the list because of a retirement is not fair to the other featured players.

BlueTrees
Jan 7th, 2012, 06:39 AM
Dinara :worship:

Brad[le]y.
Jan 7th, 2012, 07:07 AM
So technically Petkovic has a win over Venus :rolls:

Jekyll
Jan 7th, 2012, 08:33 AM
schnyder had beaten all of them but venus.
i think she had match point once in stanford :sad:

Jekyll
Jan 7th, 2012, 08:34 AM
I like Daniela but Clijsters retiring doesn't equate to being beaten. Having her on the list because of a retirement is not fair to the other featured players.

totally agree

sammy01
Jan 7th, 2012, 08:45 AM
generally retirement wins do count as wins, although of less value obviously, but nonetheless. there are players who do retire when they are losing (cough, stevenson) so yeah...

only kim was a set up, so if dani fans wanna claim it then so be it but boy that is a bit desperate

PushWoz
Jan 7th, 2012, 08:49 AM
only kim was a set up, so if dani fans wanna claim it then so be it but boy that is a bit desperate

Same as cake

illusyve
Jan 7th, 2012, 08:54 AM
Same as cake

This. I don't understand why Daniela is getting all this negativity when Marion's only win against Kim was when she retired in the second set at Indian Wells 2011.

Smitten
Jan 7th, 2012, 11:59 AM
schnyder had beaten all of them but venus.
i think she had match point once in stanford :sad:

She had 6 of them.

Embarrassing how Daniela's wins are vultured. Definitely undeserving.

rockstar
Jan 7th, 2012, 12:17 PM
only kim was a set up, so if dani fans wanna claim it then so be it but boy that is a bit desperate

i am simply explaining why retirement wins count in general i.e. official h2hs etc, not regarding this trivial list... :rolleyes:

obviously i am not trying to claim daniela beat kim by playing better or anything

monmonito
Jan 9th, 2012, 08:10 AM
well she's in so shut up

thegreendestiny
Jan 18th, 2012, 02:51 AM
C'mon Dani, validate your spot! :bounce: