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View Full Version : Peak Bartoli vs. Peak Seles (After Comeback)


SV_Fan
Dec 18th, 2011, 11:10 PM
If you were to compare Peak Bartoli vs. Peak Seles after the comeback (apprx. 1999-2002) who is the better player ?

atominside
Dec 18th, 2011, 11:16 PM
Seles 60 60.

JCTennisFan
Dec 18th, 2011, 11:16 PM
Seles without a doubt. She has a leftie serve, which is always more effective than comparable right-handed servers. And even old, out of shape, 2002 Seles would of hit Bartoli off the court.... their weight of shot is in different categories in my opinion.

SV_Fan
Dec 18th, 2011, 11:20 PM
This isn't necessarily a WWW....just who's the better player...

JCTennisFan
Dec 18th, 2011, 11:26 PM
This isn't necessarily a WWW....just who's the better player...

Bartoli is honestly one of the least athletically inclined former top 10 players we have had in a good while. All of her odd rituals and repetitive actions are to help keep herself physically alert... it is something that Ive never really seen another player have to forecably do like she does.

Basically in a nutshell Bartoli utilized her natural abilites about as good as she humanly could of... where as Seles severly underperfomed after her stabbing. Bartoli is inferior to Seles in every department except maybe movement, and that is in question only because Bartoli works much more on her fitness than Monica ever did.. and even still Bartoli isnt much faster or better at moving than overweight Seles.

dsanders06
Dec 19th, 2011, 12:29 AM
I like Marion, but she would get slaughtered by Monica seeing as she's a better version of her in every way.

Yoncé
Dec 19th, 2011, 12:36 AM
Seles. Post stabbing Seles still won a slam and multiple slam finals. Better ground strokes, better serve.

Steadyniacki
Dec 19th, 2011, 01:10 AM
Obviously Marion.

KBlade
Dec 19th, 2011, 01:13 AM
I think Marion would put up a good fight. I actually think Peak Marion's serve is better than Seles.

Vespertine69
Dec 19th, 2011, 01:29 AM
I think it would be pretty even personally, but everyone and their dog will say Seles because A) people are obsessed with tennis being shit atm and B) it's Bartoli, who many people like to put down even though she's a pretty great player when on form and not mooching around about some nebulous injury.

Tennis seems to attract bizarre logic, though... like the whole belief that women can't play 5 sets because they are women... when women run... marathons... and not 3/5ths-marathons-cos-they're-all-soft-and-have-boobies-so-better-not-tire-the-poor-petals-out.

PS - I know it was a tangent, but for the record I have no desire to see best of 5 sets for women (or men for that matter, best of 3 is a great format) - it's just the insane logic that women, competing versus other women, somehow would have insufficient physical ability to play for 5 sets.

JCTennisFan
Dec 19th, 2011, 01:34 AM
I think it would be pretty even personally, but everyone and their dog will say Seles because A) people are obsessed with tennis being shit atm and B) it's Bartoli, who many people like to put down even though she's a pretty great player when on form and not mooching around about some nebulous injury.



Seles had far better penetration on her groundstrokes in comparison to Bartoli.... this isnt even a contest. Bartoli does have nice depth on her grounstrokes but the pace just isnt the same. Not to mention that Seles had intensity that peak Bartoli could only wish she had. And on top of that id venture to say that Seles had a superior, more explosive ROS as well.

KBlade
Dec 19th, 2011, 01:40 AM
To me, this is peak Bartoli. Does anyone have a clip of Seles so we can compare?

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Djezonfly
Dec 19th, 2011, 01:47 AM
Peak Marion's serve would do some damage (see Cinci '10 against Caro and this year Wimbly against Serena in the tie breaker), as well as her ROS (the JJ match in AO). But everything else about Seles was just better so Seles would win in the end.

Vespertine69
Dec 19th, 2011, 01:48 AM
Seles had far better penetration on her groundstrokes in comparison to Bartoli.... this isnt even a contest. Bartoli does have nice depth on her grounstrokes but the pace just isnt the same. Not to mention that Seles had intensity that peak Bartoli could only wish she had. And on top of that id venture to say that Seles had a superior, more explosive ROS as well.

Seles is a greater player overall, of course... but for me the main advantage she has is sustaining belief... I think if both could sustain their very best it would be close in any given rally, but in a real match scenario I guess Marion would question herself way before Seles would. Seles' shot penetration was indeed a good bit superior, but I think Bartoli defends and serves better than Seles did, which for me would make a pretty strong difference in a rally. I'd definitely give the match to Seles on account of her superior mental powers, but I don't think Bartoli would look like an amateur on court or anything.

Obviously, people are going to disagree on this one, but heyho. I actually liked Seles quite a bit back in the day, and tbh find Bartoli quite offputting due to her timeout addiction - so as long as nobody accuses me of holding my views due to fanboy-ness then I'm all good with disagreement :p

SV_Fan
Dec 19th, 2011, 02:10 AM
I think Peak Bartoli has a much better serve than Peak Post Stabbing Seles (1999-2002). A lot of Bartoli's shot are flat and penetrating....Seles also flat but with a little more spin...Also Peak Bartoli finds a little more angles... but that's just my opinion.

chingching
Dec 19th, 2011, 02:31 AM
I think Seles was more powerful in 2002 then for example at 1990 French Open which she won.
Monica is nearly as slow here as Bartoli is and Bartoli definately hits the ball harder. You can also tell with there win loss records:
Seles vs Serena: 1-4
Seles vs Venus: 1-9

Bartoli vs Serena: 1-3
Bartoli vs Venus: 1-2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji1t-FoNLsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlwRuyKjjUc
Monica seles was not as good as this from Bartoli. How many people can outhit serena williams even if she is recovering?

chingching
Dec 19th, 2011, 02:32 AM
BTW you should have added a poll

dsanders06
Dec 19th, 2011, 02:48 AM
I think Peak Bartoli has a much better serve than Peak Post Stabbing Seles (1999-2002). A lot of Bartoli's shot are flat and penetrating....Seles also flat but with a little more spin...Also Peak Bartoli finds a little more angles... but that's just my opinion.

:lol: I'm not one to go in for the whole "Seles would've been the GOAT twice over if she hadn't got stabbed" whole thing, but she is one of the best ballstrikers in the history of the WTA....there really is NO COMPARISON with Marion :haha:

hingisGOAT
Dec 19th, 2011, 03:49 AM
Seles is much more powerful. In fact, I think Seles had the most powerful groundstrokes EVER, post-stabbing. Every single shot, provided she wasn't stretched out on the run, was a rocket. She could out-slug Lindsay, Venus, Serena, Mary, Kim, Capriati... of course she would lose most matches against them because they had much better mobility, but for pure power Seles was tops IMO.

Against Bartoli, it would be a mirror match where Seles is a bit better at everything, with a lot more power. Seles 6-2 6-2

spencercarlos
Dec 19th, 2011, 03:59 AM
Monica seles was not as good as this from Bartoli. How many people can outhit serena williams even if she is recovering?
Yeah right.. :rolleyes:

This is not even a contest Seles rather easily. She took peak Mary to a 6-4 in the third set at Roland Garros 2000 :bounce:. Bartoli could only dream of.. :lol:

Brad[le]y.
Dec 19th, 2011, 04:16 AM
This is one of Seles' best post stabbing matches IMO

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she completely throttled Martina, someone who had beaten her in all five of their previous meetings.

faboozadoo15
Dec 19th, 2011, 05:11 AM
I think Seles was more powerful in 2002 then for example at 1990 French Open which she won.
Monica is nearly as slow here as Bartoli is and Bartoli definately hits the ball harder. You can also tell with there win loss records:
Seles vs Serena: 1-4
Seles vs Venus: 1-9

Bartoli vs Serena: 1-3
Bartoli vs Venus: 1-2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji1t-FoNLsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlwRuyKjjUc
Monica seles was not as good as this from Bartoli. How many people can outhit serena williams even if she is recovering?

Neither player did well against the Williams sisters, but Seles ended a huge win streak of Venus's by beating her in Australia, and she beat Serena on a hardcourt the summer before Serena's best year ever. Seles played Venus and Serena at their peaks when she was far from hers.

Bartoli beat Serena, who had just come back (albeit in a great match), and she beat Venus in Stanford. This really just shows that Bartoli is lucky she hasn't played them as often as Seles had to. :lol:

Smitten
Dec 19th, 2011, 07:18 AM
Someone in here saying Peak Bartoli finds more angles than Peak Seles. :lol:

I swear some people are absolutely dumb with no hope.

mistymore
Dec 19th, 2011, 07:26 AM
Neither player did well against the Williams sisters, but Seles ended a huge win streak of Venus's by beating her in Australia, and she beat Serena on a hardcourt the summer before Serena's best year ever. Seles played Venus and Serena at their peaks when she was far from hers.

Bartoli beat Serena, who had just come back (albeit in a great match), and she beat Venus in Stanford. This really just shows that Bartoli is lucky she hasn't played them as often as Seles had to. :lol:

The bolded statement is completely false when it comes to Serena. Seles played her matches against Serena from 1997-2001. None of those years was ever considered by anyone as "peak Serena". You are trying to say the Serena who was known as a choker in big slam matches, reached only 1 slam final, and who was Capriati's bitch was peak Serena, LOL!


She could out-slug Lindsay, Venus, Serena, Mary, Kim, Capriati... of course she would lose most matches against them because they had much better mobility

Lindsay turtle Davenport had much better mobility than Seles. :lol: It is funny the lengths people will go to to try and show a point which isnt even true.



Anyway Bartoli sucks. She is no threat top players even in a weak era like now unless they are totally out of form, just coming back from injury, or flat out choke. So Seles any version easily. Well except on grass where Bartoli probably beats post comeback Seles, but maybe loses to pre stabbing Seles.

Betten
Dec 19th, 2011, 07:39 AM
Comparing their H2H with the best players they both played:

Bartoli-Davenport: 2-3
Bartoli-Dementieva: 2-6
Bartoli-V.Williams: 1-2
Bartoli-Henin: 1-3
Bartoli-Clijsters: 1-3
Bartoli-S.Williams: 1-3
Bartoli-Mauresmo: 1-4 (Bartoli's win was by Mo's ret. in the first set)
Bartoli-Capriati: 0-2
Bartoli-Sharapova: 0-4

Total: 9-30

Seles-Henin: 4-3
Seles-Capriati: 4-3 (post-stabbing)
Seles-Mauresmo: 3-2
Seles-Davenport: 3-10
Seles-Dementieva: 1-0
Seles-Clijsters: 1-0
Seles-Sharapova: 1-0
Seles-S.Williams: 1-4
Seles-V.Williams: 1-9

Total: 19-31

Pump-it-UP
Dec 19th, 2011, 07:44 AM
Blindfolded Monica in 3.

bandabou
Dec 19th, 2011, 08:18 AM
When you clash horns with LD, Vee, Serena, et al..Bartoli becomes like a junior-high. :lol: