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View Full Version : Who's a better singles slam champion - Schiavone or Stosur?


Lord Choc Ice
Dec 18th, 2011, 07:58 AM
They both have rather poor stats for slam winners (particularly record in finals and H2Hs) but which one do you think is better?

Finals Records:

Fran: 4 titles in 15 finals (26.7%)
Sam: 3 titles in 13 finals (18.8%)

Career-High Ranks:

Fran: #4
Sam: #4

H2H against each other:

Fran 3 - 6 Stosur

Relevant H2Hs against #1s (ie. not ones inactive for years):

Fran:

Amelie Mauresmo: 5-4
Dinara Safina: 3-4
Jelena Jankovic: 2-4
Caroline Wozniacki: 2-4
Serena Williams: 2-4
Ana Ivanovic: 0-3
Maria Sharapova: 0-3
Venus Williams: 0-7
Kim Clijsters: 0-11
Justine Henin: 1-7

Overall: 15/71 (21.1%)

Sam:

Amelie Mauresmo: 3-5
Dinara Safina: 1-4
Jelena Jankovic: 2-4
Caroline Wozniacki: 4-3
Serena Williams: 3-4
Ana Ivanovic: 2-2
Maria Sharapova: 1-9
Venus Williams: 0-4
Kim Clijsters: 0-5
Justine Henin: 1-1

Overall: 17/41 (41.5%)

Grand Slam Records:

Australian Open: Fran: QF, Sam: 4R
French Open: Fran: W, Sam: F (bonus point to Fran for reaching another final)
Wimbledon: Fran: QF, Sam: 3R
US Open: Fran: QF, Sam: W

Career W/L:

Fran: 484-239 (59.5%)
Sam: 356-247 (59%)

King Halep
Dec 18th, 2011, 08:03 AM
Schiavone by far. She has better Career W/L and won the longest gs match ever

Lord Choc Ice
Dec 18th, 2011, 08:06 AM
It was tough but I had to vote for Stosur. Yeah she's got a poor H2H against the best but it's actually better than I thought it would've been, plus her best win at a slam (Serena at USO) is more impressive than any of Fran's wins at a GS.

ElusiveChanteuse
Dec 18th, 2011, 08:12 AM
She'll probably win another slam, so Stosur.:oh:

Yoncé
Dec 18th, 2011, 08:18 AM
Franny

justineheninfan
Dec 18th, 2011, 08:45 AM
Stosur. Beating Serena in straight sets in a slam final > beating Stosur in straight sets in her first slam final (even though it was also Schiavone's). The fact in Schiavone's best ever slam it was considered such an "upset" she beat Stosur in what is now only her 2nd best slam ever is telling too. Sam is also younger and many times more likely to win another major than Schiavone.
People werent totally shocked by Sam winning a slam either, a bit shocked to whoop Serena in straight sets in a hard court slam final yes, but not to win one at some point. Especialy since almost everyone expected her to win that French over Schiavone, although some did think that was her best opportunity passed. However when Schiavone did people thought it was one of the biggest flukes ever, although kudos to her for proving them wrong by a series of solid showings and nearly defending her title. Still clearly Stosur.

I actually like Schiavone more but lets be real here.

King Halep
Dec 18th, 2011, 08:54 AM
this poll is very close

AcesHigh
Dec 18th, 2011, 09:05 AM
Fran. She beat Stosur in a final.. more titles, more finals, better winning % and QF's at all slams.

eDonkey
Dec 18th, 2011, 09:28 AM
Fran. She beat Stosur in a final.. more titles, more finals, better winning % and QF's at all slams.

:haha::haha::haha:

It's Stosur for sure.
Sam was more impressive than Fran even in Fran's own slam.

King Halep
Dec 18th, 2011, 09:39 AM
Cindy has given her approval to Samantha

http://i42.tinypic.com/8x3s5w.png

Big_Banana
Dec 18th, 2011, 09:45 AM
fran

andy69
Dec 18th, 2011, 09:46 AM
stosur she didnt give up on her career like schiavone did after winning french open

Mateo Mathieu
Dec 18th, 2011, 09:50 AM
Stosur probably will win FO eventually, so I voted her :oh:

Alejandrawrrr
Dec 18th, 2011, 10:05 AM
No "Hard to say" option? :rolleyes:

As far as who is harder to beat when on, that would have to be Sam. Visually, Fran is much more enjoyable to watch when playing well(I've always hated Stosur's robotic game.) That said, voted Stosur because she's a nightmare for anyone 5'10-, even though Franny (surprisingly) has slightly better stats. Also, if one of them is going to win anything big from this point on, it'll be Shanksur :sobbing:

Keadz
Dec 18th, 2011, 10:29 AM
Fran has been a better player throughout most of their careers, its no surprise her stats are better.

I believe Sam will be able to add a few more significant achievements which will allow her to take over Fran before she retires.

Lord Choc Ice
Dec 18th, 2011, 10:31 AM
^ "Hard to say" is a copout :p

TheHangover
Dec 18th, 2011, 10:51 AM
schiavone because she beated goat stosur in her gs final, stosur only beated serena williams in her gs final

Navratil
Dec 18th, 2011, 11:14 AM
Stosur at her best plays in a totally different league than Schiavone!

Mistress of Evil
Dec 18th, 2011, 12:31 PM
By the time Stosur becomes an old hag(like Schiavone) she will have surpassed Francesco achievement wise!

The Kaz
Dec 18th, 2011, 12:38 PM
schiavone because she beated goat stosur in her gs final, stosur only beated serena williams in her gs final

I hope that was a joke :o

goat
Dec 18th, 2011, 12:40 PM
Sam is younger, currently Fran is better but I see Stosur overtaking her in the next few years.

goat
Dec 18th, 2011, 12:41 PM
I hope that was a joke :o

I'm sure it was... ;)

propi
Dec 18th, 2011, 12:46 PM
Right now, Fran for sure, we will have to repeat the question once both players retire :p

evana
Dec 18th, 2011, 12:54 PM
Stosur, but Francesca has a better game.

dsanders06
Dec 18th, 2011, 01:22 PM
Fran. She beat Stosur in a final.. more titles, more finals, better winning % and QF's at all slams.

Your renowned objectivity comes to the fore again :hearts:

They're quite close in terms of achievements as of now, but there's no doubt whatsoever that Sam is the more talented player, and will almost certainly end up with the better resume once both are retired. It's often forgotten that one factor in Stosur being such a late-developer is she was set back by 2-3 years by that illness ... whereas Schiavone has no such excuses, she never had any serious lay-offs or serious issues, she was just a total mug for 10 whole years and constantly losing to anyone halfway-decent until the quality of the claycourt field went to hell :lol:

Matt01
Dec 18th, 2011, 02:06 PM
Stosur slightly. She has another SF in her Slam resumee and has beaten the better players in the Slams IMO. And she has better results at the YEC.


stosur she didnt give up on her career like schiavone did after winning french open


:facepalm:

nevetssllim
Dec 18th, 2011, 02:08 PM
GOAT finals statistics for both girls. :worship:

Break My Rapture
Dec 18th, 2011, 02:33 PM
Stosur actually did something else of note after winning her Slam. That is her being incredibly dependent of match-ups and being able to sneak into YEC SFs.

Holdsworth
Dec 18th, 2011, 03:15 PM
Probably Stosur, but she has an ugly playing stile as compared with Fran, that's why i can't vote for her.

Sombrerero loco
Dec 18th, 2011, 03:47 PM
sam, no contest

Sammo
Dec 18th, 2011, 07:18 PM
Stosur has beaten players that Schiavone would never even get close to getting a set off them. Stosur is just much more talented, and capable of winning 3 of the 4 Slams :oh: I mean really if I forget about who is my favourite and just think about their games there's no contest :shrug:

JCTennisFan
Dec 18th, 2011, 09:21 PM
Stosur has beaten players that Schiavone would never even get close to getting a set off them. Stosur is just much more talented, and capable of winning 3 of the 4 Slams :oh: I mean really if I forget about who is my favourite and just think about their games there's no contest :shrug:

Stosur has more power and a better serve, this much is true. She has also improved her backhand to where it is not as much of a weakness.

BUT I cant agree that Stosur beats Schiavone in all departments. Schiavone is a far more versatile player... able to play an all court game that Stosur cant quite match. On top of that Schiavone is able to vary up the pace much better than Stosur is and can change up tactics better. I would also venture to say that Schiavone plays defensive tennis better than Stosur does as well.

So at the end of the day, Stosur has a better game when all the parts are working... but she also is less able to adapt and change her tactics when things arent going well.

edificio
Dec 18th, 2011, 10:21 PM
Ultimately, I think Stosur will prove to be better, but the stats are so close. Frankly, I find Schiavone a more interesting player to watch. Her matches can be very exciting, with a lot of variety, whereas I find Stosur's game robotic. The best I've seen her play was against Vera Z, and it was amazing but not exciting. Luckily, Vera added her own bit of crazy.

TheHangover
Dec 18th, 2011, 11:17 PM
leave schiavone alone

stromatolite
Dec 18th, 2011, 11:26 PM
Stosur has more power and a better serve, this much is true. She has also improved her backhand to where it is not as much of a weakness.

BUT I cant agree that Stosur beats Schiavone in all departments. Schiavone is a far more versatile player... able to play an all court game that Stosur cant quite match. On top of that Schiavone is able to vary up the pace much better than Stosur is and can change up tactics better. I would also venture to say that Schiavone plays defensive tennis better than Stosur does as well.

So at the end of the day, Stosur has a better game when all the parts are working... but she also is less able to adapt and change her tactics when things arent going well.


Ultimately, I think Stosur will prove to be better, but the stats are so close. Frankly, I find Schiavone a more interesting player to watch. Her matches can be very exciting, with a lot of variety, whereas I find Stosur's game robotic. The best I've seen her play was against Vera Z, and it was amazing but not exciting. Luckily, Vera added her own bit of crazy.

I think both these girls have a game that, when it's on, is much more interesting to watch than the flat-hitting style that has come to dominate the game in recent years. Even as a fan of Sam, I would agree with the comments above that Francesca's game is more versatile than Sam's (though Sam's game has evolved a lot over the years, to the point that I don't think that the "robotic" tag any longer applies). But of the two, Sam was always the one who was viewed by experts as someone with slam-winning potential, the only question being would she ever get her mental problems sufficiently under control to cash in on that potential. By contrast, Francesca's RG10 title came as a complete surprise to everybody, even herself I think. Looking to the future, only Sam has a realistic chance of winning more slams I think, but it still remains to be seen whether she can actually do so. But even if she doesn't do so, I would vote for Sam on this one, based on her ability to (sometimes) dominate great players on the big stage, something Francesca has never really been able to do.

Btw my favorite Sam-Vera match is not Charleston-10 but a toss-up between Stuttgart and Eastbourne '11. Those matches were exciting and fun to watch even without Vera needing to go crazy :lol:

Matt-TennisFan24
Dec 19th, 2011, 12:26 AM
I'd have to go with Sam.

Had Stosur not been in TWO Slam finals, I would give the edge to Franny, but they have both 1 win and 1 Slam final.

Looking at the most relevant stats:

IN SLAMS
Sam has 1 win, 1 final, 1 semi and 1 QF.
Fran has 1 win, 1 final, 0 semis and 5(!) QF.

IMPORTANT TITLES/FINALS OUTSIDE SLAMS (Premiers/Tier I or II)
Sam only reached two finals in Tier I/Premier M/Premier 5 (Rome and Toronto in 2011), won one normal Premier or Tier II (Charleston 2010) and reached other three finals in this category (Sydney 2005, Los Angeles 2009 and Stuttgart 2010)
Fran only reached the final of one Tier I (Moscow 2005), she won one normal Premier or Tier II (Moscow 2009) and reached other three finals in this category (Sydney, Amelia Island and Luxembourg City)

RANKING RECORDS
Sam finished only 3 seasons in the top 20, but has already finished 2 in the top ten
Fran finished 7 seasons in the top 20, but only 1 in the top ten

I think it depends on your perspective.

ˇIf you value big results and better performance against No.1s then Stosur is the better player
ˇ If you value consistency over all, then Schiavone is the better player

JCTennisFan
Dec 19th, 2011, 12:45 AM
I think it depends on your perspective.

ˇIf you value big results and better performance against No.1s then Stosur is the better player
ˇ If you value consistency over all, then Schiavone is the better player

One of the things Id like to note is that Stosur's improvement over the years is largely due to her strengthened mentality (though also her backhand to a lesser extent). With Schiavone,I believe her improvement has come more from her actually making her game more powerful and effective. She seems to be a player (though both are but for different reasons) that reaches her peak later than most.

stromatolite
Dec 19th, 2011, 12:46 AM
I'd have to go with Sam.

Had Stosur not been in TWO Slam finals, I would give the edge to Franny, but they have both 1 win and 1 Slam final.

Looking at the most relevant stats:

IN SLAMS
Sam has 1 win, 1 final, 1 semi and 1 QF.
Fran has 1 win, 1 final, 0 semis and 5(!) QF.

IMPORTANT TITLES/FINALS OUTSIDE SLAMS (Premiers/Tier I or II)
Sam only reached two finals in Tier I/Premier M/Premier 5 (Rome and Toronto in 2011), won one normal Premier or Tier II (Charleston 2010) and reached other three finals in this category (Sydney 2005, Los Angeles 2009 and Stuttgart 2010)
Fran only reached the final of one Tier I (Moscow 2005), she won one normal Premier or Tier II (Moscow 2009) and reached other three finals in this category (Sydney, Amelia Island and Luxembourg City)

RANKING RECORDS
Sam finished only 3 seasons in the top 20, but has already finished 2 in the top ten
Fran finished 7 seasons in the top 20, but only 1 in the top ten

I think it depends on your perspective.

ˇIf you value big results and better performance against No.1s then Stosur is the better player
ˇ If you value consistency over all, then Schiavone is the better player

Nice analysis! Actually among other things it proves that this thread is probably premature. Both Sam and Fran are late bloomers, but Sam's improvement curve has been a bit steeper, and her back-to-back top10 finishes (capped in both years by a YEC-SF) shows she's not just a transitory phenomenon. She will probably never achieve the kind of results that will put her in the leagues of the Williamses, the Belgians and Masha, but she will probably go down as a very good player in the next tier, alongside people like Kuznetsova. Fran is probably not quite in that league IMO, but I hope she proves me wrong!

Mary Cherry.
Dec 19th, 2011, 12:47 AM
Cindy has given her approval to Samantha

http://i42.tinypic.com/8x3s5w.png

But they both get the

http://i.imgur.com/95OHj.png

Miss Amor
Dec 19th, 2011, 02:47 AM
Stosur, marginally.

ExtremespeedX
Dec 19th, 2011, 02:50 AM
Stosur roasted Serena in a slam final. I'd have to go with her, even though I like Fran more.

tennisforadults
Dec 19th, 2011, 03:49 AM
Sam. I think she's capable of so much more and in current form is a threat to the title at 3 of the 4 Slams.

Schiavone has a beautiful game to watch, and is consistent across all surfaces, but even at her best she's really only a factor on clay.

simonsaystennis
Dec 19th, 2011, 04:14 AM
Stosur hands down.