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View Full Version : Kim Clijsters beat only one Williams sister!!!


J_Migoe
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:37 AM
This is for all anti-Williams sisters out there. Kim Clijsters beat only one of the Williamses in the same tournament. A victory by default is not a victory at all so the record of Martina Hingis still stands.

Venus and Serena! Never lose to Kim again!

Rae Q.
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:39 AM
She beat BOTH. Venus retired so it goes in the official h2h.

J_Migoe
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:42 AM
Not in reality and this fact will remain in the hearts of many Williams fan. It's just like giving the gold to a person in a tight 100m phot0-finish which has many doubts!

DiZZiA
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:44 AM
OK.. She did not beat both Williams in one tournament.. But she has done it in the same year, and both in finals!!!

Alley
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:45 AM
If Venus would have not played then it would not have counted but since she retired mid match it counts as a win. So KIm joins ASV, Graf, and Hingis as the only players to defeat the Williams back to back.

irma
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:45 AM
can't people be happy for Kimmy then only see her as the one who beat 1,2, 3 or whatever Williams sisters?


please :rolleyes:

fact is she is the worldchampion 2002 and she will stay that till in 1000 years :cool:

CC
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:46 AM
Graf and ASV?

Chance
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:46 AM
Steffi and ASV also defeated both Vee and Rena in the same tournament- it happens, they are human
Kim may not feel like it's a victory, I don't think it's victory but it's counted in the H2H. Like TennisPower said in another thread Vee and Rena know where they stand.

2284
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:47 AM
Kim just won the Championships. Who gives a fuck if she "officialy" beat Venus?

Rae Q.
Nov 12th, 2002, 03:48 AM
Not to pick a fight but the Championships are not big of a deal to the players for other than monetary reasons. That's why they are there all exhausted, jet lagged beyond belief and banged up.
To collect the big fat paycheck!!! Serena's upset she lost but she'll gave over it. It isn't a painful loss like losing in the final at Wimbledon especially if you were favoured to win. Kim knows she didn't technically do what Steffi and Hingis did in the past but the record will show that she offically def. both sisters 'cause Venus actually played several games before retiring.

wongqks
Nov 12th, 2002, 05:08 AM
LOL, funnt that how some Williams fans try to downplay the loss, Serena play zero matches before this tournament for this last month and she is now supposingly tired, when Kim has been playing a full carpet schedule, but anyway, I see that it is only a minority and a lot of Williams fans actually congrats Kim and stuff, but some people really has to learn to take defeat of their fav more lightly

gokimmie
Nov 12th, 2002, 05:10 AM
:rolleyes:

Experimentee
Nov 12th, 2002, 05:33 AM
Its not trying to downplay Kims victory, most Williams fans here are also Kim fans, its just for all the Williams haters who are inevitably gloating about Venus being "beaten".

Mercury Rising
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:21 AM
But did Graf and Hingis defeat a #1 and #2 of the world Williams? These stats are worthless btw.

Jakeev
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:29 AM
To get back to the topic at hand, Kim's 5-0 ret. victory over Venus Wiiliams counts as an official victory for Kim whether u want it to be or not.

So in the record books in 50 years from now, unless some rule changes it, Kim will be known as one of a handful of players to be the sisters in the same tournament.

smygelfh
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:35 AM
Let's not forget that Serena was ill in the stomach when she lost to Hingis, and Venus just wasn't out there - so that win doesn't count either.

...I'm sure there was something similar with any of them when they lost to Graf or ASV too.

Let's make the kids happy and acknowledge that Serena and Venus have never lost a fair game ever.

By the way, grats to Kim! Great match!

anton
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:37 AM
I am happy for Kim, but there is a line not to be crossed. the media and a lot of Kim's new "fans" are says she beat both Venus and Serena. Venus retired.

Anyway also let's be truthful, Wimbledon decides the world champion, not WTA Championships. This is a great win for Kim and she has worked hard I think for this, but there is not need to be blinded by your hope that Venus and Serena start losing or whatever.

Serena will not make 44 errors in all her matches and Venus will not always get injured. It is up to the other players to pick up what Kim did well like served out wide, wide angles, etc!

Again congrats to KIM!!! :)

Jakeev
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:52 AM
ok so let me get this straight anton, if a player does not root for a Williams sister, they are blinded by the hope that they will start losing?


Does this mean that yoiur are "blinded" by the hope your faves will not lose to a Kim Clijsters or Chanda Rubin?


Think what your are saying sheesh.

LeonHart
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by wongqks
LOL, funnt that how some Williams fans try to downplay the loss, Serena play zero matches before this tournament for this last month and she is now supposingly tired, when Kim has been playing a full carpet schedule, but anyway, I see that it is only a minority and a lot of Williams fans actually congrats Kim and stuff, but some people really has to learn to take defeat of their fav more lightly

Yep...i can't see how Serena would be tired from one match, then having a whole day to rest before the final. Damn excuses!!! Serena lost, live with it! :fiery:

BasicTennis
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:05 AM
a record remains a record...so let's just give it to Kim.;)

maybe next year Serena will have a record by defeating Kim & her sister in a single tournament.hehehe:D

Crazy Canuck
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:28 AM
Anyway also let's be truthful, Wimbledon decides the world champion, not WTA Championships.

*yawn* Wimbledon does not decide the world champion. Wimbledon, decides the Wimbledon champion. IMO it's the most worthless slam for determining anything, seeing as it is played on a surface that is only used to about 4 weeks.

Just because the media and the folks at Wimbledon like ths stuff this down your throat, doesn't mean it has any basis.

Regardless - Serena was the best player in 2002, and Kim won the Championships. Congrats to both.

Kim technically beat both. Serena played a full match, Venus didn't.

Who cares?

Katrien
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by J_Migoe
This is for all anti-Williams sisters out there. Kim Clijsters beat only one of the Williamses in the same tournament. A victory by default is not a victory at all so the record of Martina Hingis still stands.

Venus and Serena! Never lose to Kim again!

Oh please :rolleyes:

Katrien
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:40 AM
Let's face it. Kim would have beaten Venus, even if she hadn't been injured.
Venus & Serena are great champions, but these championships were not theirs to win . . . :)
Congrats Kimmie :kiss: You did a great job.

anton
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:41 AM
everybody can have their opinion but Wimbledon is the most important tournment. Ask the players to take a vote and Wimbledon will win out.

Also there is not need to rejoice over Venus' 5-0 retirement. I think the only reason Venus went on the court was bc of Indian Wells booing.

Kim played great against Serena, and that WAS a win. Venus however was not able to play. There is not need to turn a 5-0 ret into a 6-0, 6-whatever.

treufreund
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:44 AM
WHAT??? Wimby was won by Ivanisevic because of a serve. It's just a freak show of serving these days. It's still HUGELY IMPORTANT!!! But not the MOST IMPORTANT! :rolleyes:

anton
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:45 AM
i forgot to say that even though Kim won people are still talking about it in terms of the Williams sisters. I guess some people like to rush to post when Williams lose.

Everything is not about Venus and Serena :rolleyes:

Kim won! Great! Good for her :)

BasicTennis
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:47 AM
of course it would take a great effort in beating the William Sisters, the reason why these reactions.;)

anton
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Rebecca


*yawn* Wimbledon, decides the Wimbledon champion. IMO it's the most worthless slam for determining anything, seeing as it is played on a surface that is only used to about 4 weeks.


Grass is not used more in part bc it is very hard to maintian and grow, etc. Even more than clay which is also requires a lot of work.

And your point about Wimbledon is not valid. Steffi Graf and Martina Navritaolva both are remembered mostly bc of their wins at Wimbledon and if you ask them they will tell you that Wimbledon is their fav. Also Pete Sampras and all the best players.

wimbledon is the biggest. Chris evert won french open how many times and how many times did court win melbourne?

you not liking grass is just your opinion. All the top player want to win Wimbledon except the Spanish ones who know they don't stand a chance. Maybe they can learn from Conchita Martinez who won in a stunner over MArtina Navratilova.

Beat
Nov 12th, 2002, 09:08 AM
:rolleyes: @ this thread

Kim_Clijsters_(BEL) vs. Venus_Williams_(USA)
2001-08-27 U.S. Open Hardcourt QF Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 6-1
2002-04-29 Hamburg Clay F Kim Clijsters (BEL) 1-6 6-3 6-4
2002-07-22 Stanford Hardcourt F Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 6-3
2002-07-29 San Diego Hardcourt QF Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 5-7 6-4
2002-11-04 WTA Championships Indoor Hardcourt SF Kim Clijsters (BEL) 5-0 ret

Venus Williams (USA) leads 3:2

anton
Nov 12th, 2002, 09:20 AM
if you dont like whats being said in here then stay out. the rolleyes gets way overused. nobody is forcing you to read this. there is another thread saying kim beat both. you cant control waht people think.

Katrien
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:20 AM
That's correct. And you can't control what people post either.

mboyle
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:34 AM
Congrats Kimmie on being Ithe first person to win a title beating the Williams Sisters (yes both of them). You are the only person this year to beat both Williams sisters, and are undoubtedly the third best player in the world.

kwork
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:36 AM
Kim Clijsters has had a fantastic ending of this year. It's an excuses to say that Venus had to stop because of her injury, because that wasn't really the case. Leading with 5-0, Clijsters could have beaten Venus also if there wasn't an ' injury ', she was in top condition!

Beat
Nov 12th, 2002, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by anton
if you dont like whats being said in here then stay out. the rolleyes gets way overused. nobody is forcing you to read this. there is another thread saying kim beat both. you cant control waht people think.

so you only ever post in threads where you agree with the thread-starter? it's called "discussing", anton.

Serendy Willick
Nov 12th, 2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by kwork
Kim Clijsters has had a fantastic ending of this year. It's an excuses to say that Venus had to stop because of her injury, because that wasn't really the case. Leading with 5-0, Clijsters could have beaten Venus also if there wasn't an ' injury ', she was in top condition!

:rolleyes: Puleeze, I like Kim, but we are talking about the mentally toughest player on tour here. Now since Kim won, she would've beaten Venus 6-0, 6-0 pulezze!!

Maajken
Nov 12th, 2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by anton
And your point about Wimbledon is not valid. Steffi Graf and Martina Navritaolva both are remembered mostly bc of their wins at Wimbledon and if you ask them they will tell you that Wimbledon is their fav. Also Pete Sampras and all the best players.
Its not because its most players' favourite tournament that it is also the biggest. I agree with Becca, the average player plays like 2 grass court tournies a year, how on earth can you then state that the wimbledon champ is also the world champ? :confused:

IMO Kim beat both Venus and Serena and its not just about beating the Williams sisters, its also about beating no. 1 and 2 in the world!

Congrats Kim.

CellJr300
Nov 12th, 2002, 02:42 PM
Venus did lose to Kim, I wouldn't care if she retired, withdrew, or lost a regular match, a los is still a loss. Fitness is just as much a part of tennis as skills are, and if you are not physically able to continue a match, or play in one from the beginning, then on that day your opponent was in better condition and should get the win.

I may not like it when one of my faves has to retire or withdraw from a match, but in my book I still give them a loss for that retirement or withdrawal. I'm sure that Kim would rather have ended up winning the match the hard way, by actually finishing the whole match, but a win is a win, and if your opponent can not continue then you win and they lose.

The Crow
Nov 12th, 2002, 04:15 PM
What's the big deal?? Kim won the masters, that's all that matters.

anton
Nov 12th, 2002, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Beat


so you only ever post in threads where you agree with the thread-starter? it's called "discussing", anton.

The point that I'm trying to make is that there is another thread called "KIM beat boath Williams sisters". Why not just go in there and post Pro-kim stuff? Do pro-Kim fans needs to try and control both threads? Kim did not beat Venus. Kim won by default. This is my opinion as you can have one too. As it is also my opinion that Wimbledon is the biggest and most impartant tournament. The empty seats at this tournament and general lack of interest are two indicators. PLus Wimbledon has so much going for it. These two events are not in the same sentence.

Jakeev
Nov 12th, 2002, 11:58 PM
anton you have lost the battle here. Why can't you except the fact that for one tournament, the sisters did not win the title?

Be happy it's its only one tournament and stop trying to justify everything it makes you look as tacky.

Serendy Willick
Nov 13th, 2002, 12:04 AM
Kim won the tournement, be happy. The fans will never agree on this so why bother arguing with each other?

J_Migoe
Nov 13th, 2002, 02:08 AM
Kim did not win over Venus. Venus was forced to give her the victory. Yes, even though 50 years from now, Kim will be recorded as one of the very few players to beat both sisters in the same tournament, sa to say, she will have an asterisk beside her name:
* Kim won over Venus because Venus withdrew of injury!

Martian KC
Nov 13th, 2002, 02:15 AM
So if Venus just went through the whole match with her injury and lost, would it count than as a "win" for you guys?:rolleyes: It's not Kim's fault Venus had an unforunate ending and had to retire. Congrats Kim!

Hingiswinsthis
Nov 13th, 2002, 03:18 AM
1998 Sanchez Vicario
Sydney, AUS
Semis: Sanchez-Vicario def. Serena Williams 6-2, 6-1
Finals: Sanchez Vicario def. Venus Williams walkover

1999 Steffi Graf
Sydney, AUS
2nd Round: Graf def. Serena Williams 6-2, 3-6, 7-5
4th Round: Graf def. Venus Williams 4-6, 6-2, 6-4

2001 Martina Hingis
Melbourne, AUS
Quarters: Hingis def. Serena Williams 6-2, 3-6, 8-6
Semis: Hingis def. Venus Williams 6-1, 6-1

2002 Kim Clijsters
Los Angeles, CA
Semis: Clijsters def. Venus Williams 5-0 ret.
Finals: Clijsters def. Serena Williams 7-5, 6-3

notes:
up to last night, Australia was the only place the Williams sisters were beaten back to back.
secondly, i will have to say it is Steffi Graf and Martina Hingis THAT REALLY EARNED their wins with complete matches. Congrats to Kim though....

Bella
Nov 13th, 2002, 03:37 AM
Some of you count a walkover, too?

anton
Nov 13th, 2002, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by Jakeev
anton you have lost the battle here. Why can't you except the fact that for one tournament, the sisters did not win the title?

Be happy it's its only one tournament and stop trying to justify everything it makes you look as tacky.

whatever:rolleyes:

I know I look great so I'm won't respond to this.:wavey:

Dokicfan17
Nov 13th, 2002, 04:05 AM
KIM WON GET OVER IT< she BEAT BOTH money VENUS and ape SERENA TO WIN THE TITLE, you cant handle it, cry me a riva

PhoenixStorm
Nov 13th, 2002, 04:10 AM
at least serena beat that no talent shemale dokic. Her game is so one dimensional its flat.

Jakeev
Nov 13th, 2002, 05:28 AM
lol i told you that you were beaten anton thanks for conceding the fact.......:kiss:

sailntiger
Nov 13th, 2002, 05:34 AM
:angel: :angel: :angel: I'M NOT ANTI-ANBODY---WE ARE TALKING SEMANTICS--I BELIEVE KIM WON THE MATCHES AGAINST BOTH OF THE WILLIAMS SISTERS!! :angel: :angel: :angel:




:hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :drool: :angel: HOWEVER, I AM FOR JUSTINE HENIN!!!!!! :angel: :drool: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:



:bounce: :bounce: :wavey: :wavey: GO JUSTINE :wavey: :wavey: :bounce: :bounce:

disposablehero
Nov 13th, 2002, 05:44 AM
If Venus was healthy, we wouldn't be having this debate but Kim would still be going home with the trophy.

Gandalf
Nov 13th, 2002, 06:33 AM
Venus lost to Arantxa 6-1, 6-3 in Sydney'98, it wasn't a w.o. !

FP
Nov 13th, 2002, 06:39 AM
i don't know WHY ppl get soooo obssessed about beating both williamses in 1 tournament :o

They were beaten already several times by different players in 1 tournament back to back and probably they will be beaten back to back many times in future.

What has been done once will be done again, that's a given fact isn't it? I just can't understand why this question is still on???

I think this topic is out of date already and not interesting anymore...

FP
Nov 13th, 2002, 06:49 AM
AND pls for God sake drop ur talks about "IF the sisters were healthy blah blah blah" U know life conisits of facts and not assumptions...
If Edison wouldn't invent electricity we would never met here, if Hitler wasn't born wold war 2 would never took place, if tennis wasn't invented we would not sit here and argue about stupid things and finally
IF Venus was healthy Kim would swept her away with 6-0 6-0 score how do u see this "if" do u like it???

FP
Nov 13th, 2002, 06:55 AM
according to stat our friend posted just above i can see that the sisters get beaten every year except 2000 (I guess they were not healthy enough to play both in 1 tournament then as usuall hehehe :D j/k)
So somebody beat them both in 1 tournament every year consistently and after all some of u still find some rediculous excuses to state that they cannot be beaten ...
That's very strage :o

jujufan
Nov 13th, 2002, 07:25 AM
Ok guys to stop all this, the answer comes from kim herself.
In an interview =
How do you feel about beating both williams back to back?
Kim = I didn't really beat venus. ...

Hope it's solved

2284
Nov 13th, 2002, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by disposablehero
If Venus was healthy, we wouldn't be having this debate but Kim would still be going home with the trophy.
I totally agree. The only difference would be that Kim would have had to work slightly harder. She beat Serena (#1 player) and beat Venus (#2) in Hamburg, so why does it matter if this was a "real win". If I got a huge trophy and a cheque for a large amount of money, I certainly wouldn't care!

anton
Nov 13th, 2002, 08:29 AM
I'm glad to see Venus open her own business!! Congrats Venus! :) Hope everything goes well also get well soon! :)

anton
Nov 13th, 2002, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by kimmyfan
Ok guys to stop all this, the answer comes from kim herself.
In an interview =
How do you feel about beating both williams back to back?
Kim = I didn't really beat venus. ...

Hope it's solved

well kim is more honest than some of her fans it seems. go kimmy!! :)

anton
Nov 13th, 2002, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Jakeev
lol i told you that you were beaten anton thanks for conceding the fact.......:kiss:

Q. How do you feel about beating both Williamses back to back?

KIM CLIJSTERS: I didn't really beat Venus.