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VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Nov 11th, 2002, 11:35 PM
I'm asking a series of social questions -- just to see the political feel of the board.....

here's #1

Scotso
Nov 11th, 2002, 11:55 PM
only in cases of rape, incest, etc. or if the mother is in danger

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Nov 11th, 2002, 11:58 PM
:eek: Scott, that one surprised me from you ;)

Josh
Nov 12th, 2002, 12:12 AM
Legal during the first trimester but also allowed in certain cases beyond that period.

Monica@53
Nov 12th, 2002, 12:13 AM
Agree with Josh

Scotso
Nov 12th, 2002, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
:eek: Scott, that one surprised me from you ;)

This is the only thing that I'm less than liberal on. I just can't fathom being AGAINST the death penalty but pro-abortion? To me that's like letting the guilty live but punishing the innocent?

Anyway, if I were the absolute ruler of the world I still wouldn't make abortion illegal at all, because while personally I'm against it, I don't think it's right for me to decide that for other people.

Nacho
Nov 12th, 2002, 12:32 AM
I agree with GoLleyt

Legal during the first 3 months is pffff... why not the first 4th months? where's the limit? :rolleyes:

Cassius
Nov 12th, 2002, 12:58 AM
I don't know what 'partial birth' or 'trimester' is, but abortion should be legal.

Hurley
Nov 12th, 2002, 01:02 AM
Partial-birth abortions make me sick to my stomach...but no one should really have any say in it except the mother so I'd have to say it should all be legal.

Justin
Nov 12th, 2002, 01:05 AM
IMO, abortions should only be legal where the health of the mother is in jeopardy.

Giuseppe
Nov 12th, 2002, 02:42 AM
the abortion should be "not illegal" (that is not the same that to be "legal"), The abortions should be just practiced in Hospitals of the social security (free), where Psychological support will be given to the woman and to bring options to her to avoid the abortion if is possible (adoption or to raise her son). It is necessary to support her, not to punish her. But neither to congratulate her if she does it. And under no circumstance the abortion must be promoted as one way of natal control. The baby is a human being, don't forget that

Kiwi_Boy
Nov 12th, 2002, 02:57 AM
IMO only in cases of rape etc.....its not fair on the mother or the child,especially since it was not a consecquence of stupidity or self fault.
otherwise i dont think its fair that someone can go have sex and not be prepared to take the consequences for their actions (it sounds old fashion,but in this day and age people are becoming more and more careless and think that they can do what they want and fix it by an abortion or somthing (unfortunatly in most teen cases it seems the abortion looks like a good way out,but ofen leaves the mother feeling guilty and well ike shit afterwards
.) people should take responsibiltiy for their own actions.IMO.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 12th, 2002, 05:43 AM
Arg, I voted for the totally wrong option.

I wasn't reading and voted for the last one, but meant the first one :rolleyes:

Anyhow, in my opinion, a womans body is a womans body. I don't see how men really deserve any input on this matter from a legal standpoint, seeing as they will never be in that position, and should have no say over a woman's body anyhow.

Giuseppe
Nov 12th, 2002, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by Rebecca
a womans body is a womans body
1000% agree. But the body of the women finishes where start the body of the baby (that is not "a part" of the woman body but is independent), same the rights. The babies has one undeniable right: THE RIGHT TO LIVE.

But as i said above is a very complex situation. The woman that choose to abort shouldn't be punished as criminals, but the abortion shouldn't be promoted as a solution to any trouble (not talking on raping, or danger of death to the mother) or "fleeting sex desire".

Scotso
Nov 12th, 2002, 06:04 AM
And while it may be the woman's body, I don't think she should have the right to abort the baby without the father's consent - unless he's a criminal or something.

Whether or not it's her body, she chose to have sex with him, and now what resulted is a part of him too.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 12th, 2002, 06:52 AM
The man should have the say in wether or not the women carries a child for 9 months?

I could not agree less.

If the man wants the baby and the woman doesn't, the woman is supposed to alter her lifestyle and body for the next 9 months (and the rest of her life) because what the mans says goes?

Yeah, maybe in 1950 I would accept that.


For the record, I am not sure that I could never get one - and will hopefully never put myself in the position where I would have to consider one.

However, I feel that women should have that option.

Perhaps when medical science finds a way for men to bear children, I might consider a little more sympathy.

Giuseppe
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:00 AM
Rebecca i don't know you, but you are speaking as if the possibility of bringing life to the world (that only have the women) it was a disadvantage, an inconvenience to the women, and not a benediction, a miracle of the nature or God if you believe in him. And of course any gift bears obligations. The obligation to take care of the life.
as our mothers did it.

interesting topic but i need to rest, and dementieva won!!, ciao!

Sam L
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:08 AM
I voted for "Abortion should be legal, includning partial birth abortions". It's one of those things I feel strongly about.

Let's face it, abortion is pro-life! and it's a woman's choice what she does with her body.

Those opposed to abortion are caught in the middle age ideals of women been slaves to men and their bodies. The choice is there.

Giuseppe
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:15 AM
i was leaving but i can't let this pass. The women has the right to do whatever she wants to do with her body. i am agree. But "THE BABY IS NOT PART OF HER BODY" Is an independent individual, unique, with his-her own group of genes. "The baby while is inside the mother is a passenger" not a part of her body.

Not all the people that are against the indiscriminate abortion is conservative. i am very liberal. And like me, many people defends the life of the babies because we believe that the defense of the defenseless ones is something that we need to do.
I am not christian, but agnostic, i am not conservative, but i have left ideas. i believe in the human rights, all of them, including THE RIGHT TO THE LIFE

whatever the women shouldn't be punished as i said before, but supported in a wise and humanitarian way if they decides to abort

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:19 AM
I'm not getting into this arguement again

Let's just say the word 'murderer' comes to mind to anyone who aborts a child made outside of rape etc

I know that if a girlfriend of mine aborted a child, no matter how much i loved her, i'd wipe her from my life straight away

But then although i have no experience in this as such, just a similarish instance

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:20 AM
Oh and if it's about parts of the body, my dick is mine and if i wanna share it with another woman whilst married, my wife can't argue, as it's my dick?

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:25 AM
On another note, my body is also mine, can i cut myself all the time and not expect a reaction from anyone?

Eye for an eye, i believe in that

I won't say anymore on the topic, as it's one where people have there minds made up and is not worth debating as nothing will change, people will exchange insults and all that so.................

:wavey:

Crazy Canuck
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by Giuseppe
Rebecca i don't know you, but you are speaking as if the possibility of bringing life to the world (that only have the women) it was a disadvantage, an inconvenience to the women, and not a benediction, a miracle of the nature or God if you believe in him. And of course any gift bears obligations. The obligation to take care of the life.
as our mothers did it.

interesting topic but i need to rest, and dementieva won!!, ciao!

I thought that I made it clear that PERSONALLY I do not believe I could ever have an abortion.

In which case all this junk about how I apparently see bringing life in the world, is nothing but rubbish.

If you are interested in how I view such things, feel free to ask me. But do not assume, as in this case, you could not be farther from the truth.

i-girl
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:43 AM
legal, legal, legal. I don't have the energy for this debate again, I'll just remind Golleyt that when he/she thinks we should force a woman to get the father's consent to the abortion, he affectivly removes the decision from the woman's hands. it's not giving the father a "say" in the matter, it's giving him the right to "Veto" the abortion.
it's my body. mine, mine, mine. an unborn fetus, who can't think, who throughout a large part of the pregnancy can't feel, who is not self aware, does not count more than I do. god, do you have any idea how pregnancy changes a woman's life? enough of this pro life crap already.

Williams Rulez
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:45 AM
I think abortions should be legal, just during the first tri-mester... I mean if you wanted to abort the baby, you should have made the decision early, before it becomes so gruesome to abort the baby... :(

Crazy Canuck
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:45 AM
Ideally, I think the option should be there so that people can abort at the beginning of their pregnancy, under unfortunate circumstances (rape, for example. It is also not unheard of for a women to get pregnant even when being on the pill, so I include this as well).

I do not think it should be used as a form of birth control, etc etc.

However - people abuse the system - thus in order to protect the rights of those who are in these circumstances, i'm willing to accept the fact that some people are going to abuse it.

Furthermore, when we say that people have to have been in a certain circumstance in order for this to happen -

1- Who is to decide wether or not the woman fits one of the criteria? what if the persons in charge of this do not totally believe in abortion in the first place, thus use their position as a place to force their own agenda? Thus some women who were raped, but didn't report the rape "soon enough", have to suffer.

2 - What if during the time it takes to go through all the processes required to determine that the women does indeed "deserve" the right to an abortion in her case - she's already entered her second trimester? Or even later? When without all of this, she could have aborted the baby before it was so developed?

i-girl
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:46 AM
Eye for an eye, i believe in that

gee, David, I didn't realize babies were punishment. yes, that's what we want, women having babies they don't want and aren't ready for, because they feel it's their punishment.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:48 AM
I might also add -

What constitutes Rape? Who gets to decide wether or not they feel the woman has been sufficiently "raped enough", in order that she "deserves" an abortion?

It is bad enough that she is in that position, now she will have to be punished and judged, for the actions of the few who abuse the system (by just not being responsible, etc).

I fail to see how any who gives two craps about womens rights, could be against abortion.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:51 AM
Well, I have some reservations about very late abortions, but women don't have these for lighthearted reasons, so I don't really support banning them.

Even if I felt some late abortions were immoral, this does not entail that it is a good idea to have a law against them. The criminal law isn't there to force everyone to be perfectly moral: it is there to force us not to act in ways that would be intolerably dangerous to society. There are all sorts of immoral acts that are not banned by the criminal law - for very good reason.

As for early abortions, I am amazed that anyone can be opposed to them except on essentially superstitious grounds. Since I have no intention of writing an extensive article on the subject (at least not here), and I don't want to say anything I'll regret later, I'll leave it at that for the moment.

I might have gone for a more nuanced option somewhere between option 1 and 2 if one had been offered, but I kinda doubt it, after reflectiom. Anyway, I'm sticking with option 1.

BasicTennis
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:54 AM
why not just legalize everything, so we don't have any crimes in this world.:o

i-girl
Nov 12th, 2002, 09:27 AM
*sigh* I love Joui :)

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by i-girl


gee, David, I didn't realize babies were punishment. yes, that's what we want, women having babies they don't want and aren't ready for, because they feel it's their punishment.

Or you could just be responsible and not get pregnant?

I had a child at 13 and would have had one at 16 but it didn't work out

Okay so i'm the male but both my partners (who were the same age as me) NEVER talked about abortion because they knew it was there responsibility, along with mine, to bring the child up, we had sex, we made baby, we were responsible

Simple solution, don't want baby, don't have unprotected sex!

But this has been debated before, and i'm not into debating now as i've just been sacked from my job

I just think, in a relationship if someone does something with there body (abortion, sex with someone else) then they don't deserve there partner, only an opinion

If you don't want the baby, have it adopted, but don't kill it

Sam L
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by BasicTennis
why not just legalize everything, so we don't have any crimes in this world.:o

Are you comparing abortion to a crime? :mad:

Sam L
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Britney_SMG_MJH
If you don't want the baby, have it adopted, but don't kill it

Sorry but that's the most irresponsible thing. So what, you just have any amount of babies you like and give them up for adoption so you rid yourself of financial and parental obligations?

The child would know they're adopted and would long to know the parent and that just causes emotional distress for all parties involved.

i-girl
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:26 AM
David, I don't want to get on your back with this, I know it's a sensitive issue. I'll just say that people make mistakes, and should be allowed to correct them. it does no-one any good if a woman is forced to complete a pregnancy against her wishes. it's too much to ask of a woman emotionally and physically, and a baby should not be brought into this world if it's not wanted. yes, adoption would be a good solution, but it can be even emotionally harder on a woman, and since she still has to complete the pregnancy- still physically taxing and dangerous (a first term abortion is significantly safer than even the safest childbirth).
it's about priorities David. is society more concerened about the woman carrying the baby, her life, her future, her happiness, or is it more concerened with the potential life of the unborn, which could one day have thoughts and feelings, but currently-unlike the woman carrying it- doesn't. besides priorities, it's also about respecting women's autonomy over their bodies, and their capability to decide for themselves what's good for them, and what's morally right or wrong.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:27 AM
Sam L

So you are saying

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck and don't have any responsibilities because you can always kill it

:rolleyes:

You'll be telling me next it's okay for those people who tie bombs to there babies because it rids them of responsibility :rolleyes:

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by i-girl
David, I don't want to get on your back with this, I know it's a sensitive issue. I'll just say that people make mistakes, and should be allowed to correct them. it does no-one any good if a woman is forced to complete a pregnancy against her wishes. it's too much to ask of a woman emotionally and physically, and a baby should not be brought into this world if it's not wanted. yes, adoption would be a good solution, but it can be even emotionally harder on a woman, and since she still has to complete the pregnancy- still physically taxing and dangerous (a first term abortion is significantly safer than even the safest childbirth).
it's about priorities David. is society more concerened about the woman carrying the baby, her life, her future, her happiness, or is it more concerened with the potential life of the unborn, which could one day have thoughts and feelings, but currently-unlike the woman carrying it- doesn't. besides priorities, it's also about respecting women's autonomy over their bodies, and their capability to decide for themselves what's good for them, and what's morally right or wrong.

Well i appreciate your views, shall we agree to disagree to a point?

I know a woman ( or rather i know of a woman) who had an abortion, she now can't have children yet wants them

It is a sensitive issue, and i've had my say, thanks for replying intelligently i-girl

Sam L
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:32 AM
No one is killing anybody! Geez

Either have safe sex or if things don't go to plan, an abortion should be an option.

I hardly think we as a society should be telling women whether they should have a baby or not. I mean honestly.

i-girl
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:41 AM
well, it's hard for me to agree to disagree on this subject, David, because I feel this is a basic right women should have, but we can agree not to fight about it here anymore:). but David, don't you think you yourself are the best example? did you "want" a baby at 13? are 13 year olds even capable of understanding the responsibilities of having a child, or of having sex for that matter? or were you simply young and not careful enough and all of a sudden found yourself "in over your head" in a difficult situation? I know you're not sorry you had your daughter, and that makes it difficult for you to say "a pregnant 13 year old should have an abortion", but won't you at least say that a 13 year old who finds herself pregnant should have the opportunity not to have the baby, if that's what she wants? (lol, so much for not arguing;))

Crazy Canuck
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:52 AM
I know a woman ( or rather i know of a woman) who had an abortion, she now can't have children yet wants them

I know a girl who had three, before finally carrying a baby to full term and keeping it.

Isolated incidences, are not the majority.

BasicTennis
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Sam L


Are you comparing abortion to a crime? :mad:

are you feeling guilty now, with just the thought of it???:p

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by i-girl
well, it's hard for me to agree to disagree on this subject, David, because I feel this is a basic right women should have, but we can agree not to fight about it here anymore:). but David, don't you think you yourself are the best example? did you "want" a baby at 13? are 13 year olds even capable of understanding the responsibilities of having a child, or of having sex for that matter? or were you simply young and not careful enough and all of a sudden found yourself "in over your head" in a difficult situation? I know you're not sorry you had your daughter, and that makes it difficult for you to say "a pregnant 13 year old should have an abortion", but won't you at least say that a 13 year old who finds herself pregnant should have the opportunity not to have the baby, if that's what she wants? (lol, so much for not arguing;))

I'm sorry, i can't say that as i've never been in the situation of not wanting a child, i haven't seen my daughter for 10 1/2 years and i'd die to see her again. We didn't want a baby at 13 but we came around to the idea when we realised what was going to happen. The average 13 year old couldn't understand, i wasn't an average 13 year old, not saying i was really mature, but i was more like 18 than 13 and i made a good father IMO, my daughter never went without love. I understood sex at a very young age, but yes i was careless, but i don't regret it and never will

I'm the wrong person to be debating with as if i agreed to it, i'd be saying my daughter isn't worthy of anything, and i can't do that, sorry, i have blinkered vision on this subject

BasicTennis
Nov 12th, 2002, 10:59 AM
anything that's considerd illegal is a crime.:)

BasicTennis
Nov 12th, 2002, 11:08 AM
Had our own parents believed and went for abortion, then we're not even here debating about it.

3MTA3
Nov 12th, 2002, 12:10 PM
This is a womans choice. She may or may not have an abortion. For any man to give his opinion for or against is wrong. As a man, I would like to think my opinion matters, but it should be left up to the woman in her specific situation. should they be legal, yes. Do I really get a say in the matter? no.