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View Full Version : Why can't Capriati beat Serena anymore?


iluvtrent
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:22 AM
Jennifer used to have Serena's number, but now she can't buy a win. What's up with that (I don't listen to the so-called "experts")
:confused:

PhoenixStorm
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:28 AM
because serena is now mentally tougher just like jen was mentally tougher in 2001.

treufreund
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:30 AM
I think she needs to be mentally tougher and also try to do it in straight sets since Jenn is more of a retriever ( a powerful one, though). She gets a little bit tired in the third set IMO.

"Topaz"
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:33 AM
Serena's game went up a notch and Jen's hasn't (from 2001). That's the answer.

o0O0o
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:33 AM
She's now choked against Serena in four matches in a row.

Chance
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:38 AM
Choking is what Hingis did in the AUSOPEN FINAL.Rena is just a better player (this year)

tennisfan1972
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:40 AM
I dont think that Jen cant beat serena, I just think that she hasnt in the last 6 matches. She just hasnt won the really really important points in these big matches. and serena steps it up when she needs too. I mean this was far from a routine win for serena, even on match point u still dont know who is gonna win.Like Hingis/venus used to be. nail biters til the end. GREAT MATCH!

iluvtrent
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:51 AM
I agree- I think Jennifer gets winded the longer the match goes, and she expects Serena to give up (like she used to) when she's down. Champions never quit, though

victory1
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:51 AM
Actually, I don't know if it's true, I've never mentioned it because the person that told said I couldn't. I just called her and she said I could tell you guys without being too specific of who she is, so we will call her a friend of the family. She told me that Serena suffer from anxiety, and one of the simptons was an upset stomach (cramping in the stomach, to be more specific), that's why she has to eat a light meal before a match, it helps calms her stomach, so it's mental not physical. She also said, Serena was diagnose after her Winbledon match in 2001. She says Serena associated the misery she went through in 2001 with Jenn and Hingis, and refuse to lose to them because she's afraid it will make her anxiety worse and bring back the cramping. Anxiety is something millions of people suffer from, there's cases that are more severe, but there's no cure for it. She says in Serena case it's mild and Serena has it under control, but the problem in 2001 was not knowing what was wrong so was unble to handle it.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:52 AM
0ooooo is too biased to offer logical opinion. Jen didn't choke she lost. she choked against momo at the us open though. Also dokic didnt choke against serena she tanked which is entirely different. Jen never tanks at least.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:54 AM
Actually, I don't know if it's true, I've never mentioned it because the person that told said I couldn't. I just called her and she said I could tell you guys without being too specific of who she is, so we will call her a friend of the family. She told me that Serena suffer from anxiety, and one of the simptons was an upset stomach (cramping in the stomach, to be more specific), that's why she has to eat a light meal before a match, it helps calms her stomach, so it's mental not physical. She also said, Serena was diagnose after her Winbledon match in 2001. She says Serena associated the misery she went through in 2001 with Jenn and Hingis, and refuse to lose to them because she's afraid it will make her anxiety worse and bring back the cramping. Anxiety is something millions of people suffer from, there's cases that are more severe, but there's no cure for it. She says in Serena case it's mild and Serena has it under control, but the problem in 2001 was not knowing what was wrong so was unble to handle it.



I dont know if this is true or not but I'll treat it like an unfounded rumor. However this is no friend of the family to spread serena' s business like that. In fact i think its backhanded and just plain wrong.

iluvtrent
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:57 AM
I think a lot of pro athletes have this kinds of problems, anxiety attacks, insomnia, etc.

o0O0o
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:06 AM
"Jen didn't choke she lost."

Are you saying you can't choke and lose at the same time. Interesting logic there.

Do I consider having break points to serve for the match in set two and losing them, choking? Maybe. Do I consider being up a break in the third set and losing, choking? Maybe. Do I consider having dozens of lost game and break points in the third set choking? Maybe. Do I consider all of these three, put together, choking? It's hard not to view it that way.

tennisIlove09
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:11 AM
Here's my answer:

Serena's serve is a weapon; Jen's serve is not--it causes her a lot of matches.

"Topaz"
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:12 AM
If anxiety it is, then the rest of the tour should do their best to contract that condition or disease.

Brought It!
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by victory1
Actually, I don't know if it's true, I've never mentioned it because the person that told said I couldn't. I just called her and she said I could tell you guys without being too specific of who she is, so we will call her a friend of the family. She told me that Serena suffer from anxiety, and one of the simptons was an upset stomach (cramping in the stomach, to be more specific), that's why she has to eat a light meal before a match, it helps calms her stomach, so it's mental not physical. She also said, Serena was diagnose after her Winbledon match in 2001. She says Serena associated the misery she went through in 2001 with Jenn and Hingis, and refuse to lose to them because she's afraid it will make her anxiety worse and bring back the cramping. Anxiety is something millions of people suffer from, there's cases that are more severe, but there's no cure for it. She says in Serena case it's mild and Serena has it under control, but the problem in 2001 was not knowing what was wrong so was unble to handle it.

I think I believe this to a degree. There is something about Cappy that brings out a 'FLAWED' game in Serena. Even though she eventually wins - her on court behavior is different than when she plays other players.

STILL

Serena let Cappy in the game with her UE's. She seems to make more UE's against Cappy than anyone. Yet she stills wins.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:21 AM
once again oooo proves his bias by putting words in peoples mouths. At no time did I say you cannot choke and lose at the same time. Putting words in people's mouths is lowest of the low.

did you not see that serena had just as many chances to break but missed the opportunity? Did she choke? Sorry sometimes you do not choke on a break point sometimes someone hits a WINNER ON YOU or sometimes a LET CORD strikes the net and decides the point. Stop trying to make things so black and white. Just because the player you wanted to win lost you seem to come up with an excuse. Well you are full of excuses and excuses are worth nothing so take that to the bank.

Thank goodness jen and martina dont act like some of their fans because they would never win a match again. jen was out played and she lost. Tennis is more than having the right shot at the right time you need self belief and determination and sheer will power to win some matches.

o0O0o
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:26 AM
"Putting words in people's mouths is lowest of the low."

At least one of us can tell the difference! I asked you a question regarding what you said, which is not "putting words in people's mouth", you complete and total moron.

"did you not see that serena had just as many chances to break but missed the opportunity"

Pfff. Capriati had many, many, many more break point opportunities than Serena. Regardless, I agree that Serena played better and won the match. After all, Serena played good enough not to choke. I can't say the same for Jen.

KingA
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:27 AM
Serena has a much stronger belief in herself now than before!!

tennischick
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:32 AM
Jen played a superb match IMO, and for a while there it really looked as if she was going to win. she also forced Sure Winna to make a LOT of errors. but, typically, Jen ran out of steam during the last two games while Sure Winna was just getting into her third groove.

the truth is that Sure Winna has to play her best and to be at her MOST aggressive to beat Jen. that's why their matches are so close and also so spectacular. i enjoyed every moment, especially Sure Winna getting and keeping match point. but it came down to one point which is their closest match in a while.

Jen must be so pissed with herself right about now bec she truly gave it her all. she knows she had her chances to win this match with the kinds of errors she was forcing from Sure Winna. but at the end of the day, the name held...;) ;)

PhoenixStorm
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:32 AM
Are you saying you can't choke and lose at the same time. Interesting logic there.

Sorry but the only moron is you. Usually questions are ended with a QUESTION MARK. Not a period which makes it a declarative sentence.

I also see you are a victim of hyperbole with your supposed "many, many, many more" break point opportunities jen had. Here are the stats:5 of 13 = 38 % 5 of 17 = 29

sorry but four more chances are not by any means many many many more.:rolleyes:

you can only choke a match if you had it on your raket otherwise you were in no position to WIN THE MATCH you cannot choke away something you never had. Example: martina CHOKED the aussie open in 2002. Jen CHOKED her us open 2002 semi against momo. THAT IS CHOKING. I swear sometimes you do have inciteful things to say but then you come up with complete nonsense.

tennischick
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:34 AM
Jen didn't choke. she played her best but towards the end, Serena had that extra reserve of aggression that Jen just didn't.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:42 AM
On a side note forced errors are different than unforced errors. Unforced errors are mistakes on the players part that are not produced from an opponents dictating play or forcing the action. They are throwaway points that players give to their opponents. They are points that players use to beat themselves.

However forced errors are the result of your opponent forcing the action and dictating play and you have no chance to get the point.

so you do not beat yourself with high forced errors but you do with high unforced errors.

There is also a difference between winning and beating someone. For example Kim won tonight but she did not beat venus. She won because venus retired. When a player hits every ball out with unforced errors they lose the match but they beat themselves, the other player did not beat them.

tennischick
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:45 AM
i know what a forced error is and i am of the opinion that many of Serena's errors were actually FORCED by Capriati. that's why i am conceding that Jen played a great game. just not great enuf to win.

o0O0o
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:46 AM
"Are you saying" is a phrase which not only suggests but can be nothing other than an interrogative sentence. If you cannot figure that out and overlook an admittedly silly gramatical mistake, ye of supreme mastery of the english language, what does that say about you? Interesting that you consider me a "victim" of hyperbole, but nonetheless, Jennifer still had many (notice the lack of repetition) more chances than Serena to break, and I'm afraid to even imagine the "game point" stats.

And nice to know people still force their definitions on to others, I view choking away a tennis match as having a lead, tightening up, and losing. Is their any doubt that Capriati did this? If what I see doesn't fall in line with your superior ways, well I'm SOL I suppose.

o0O0o
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:48 AM
"Kim won tonight but she did not beat venus"

Oh really? I'm counting 21 winners, a 5-0 scoreline, and a big fat "W" next to Clijsters' name.

:kiss:

PhoenixStorm
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:51 AM
sorry but a declarative sentence is what it is which is what your wrote. That is how I read it.

Also your condescension is unwarranted and unappreciated. Fine we view choking in different ways but by your twisted logic if a player wins the first game of a match and "takes the lead" and loses then she "choked" the match. Oh yeah thats really sound logic.

Sorry but your definition is just wrong. Some things are not so subjective. Maybe you need to find a new word for what you call choking because, baby, thats not it. Some people think the death penalty is not murder. Theyre wrong. Its not subjective it is what it is.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:54 AM
OH geez are as dense as your posts? Kim did win I do not dispute that but she did not beat venus. you dont beat players with a score of five to zero. You supposedly play tennis, do you not? Don't you realize the rules you play by? Don't you realize that in order to beat an opponent? 6 -4 7-5 or by two in a tiebreak up to seven with two out of three sets. That is how you BEAT an opponent.

Also I am happy for Kim lil rena Clijsters. Her game is so similar to serenas and she has a great attitude. Sure venus would have been nice in the finals but having kim is no disappointment. Im just happy theres no martina or jen in the mix to ruin such a great moment.

o0O0o
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:58 AM
Again, your views of "choking" and "beating an opponent" are nothing more than your opinions, which I find borderline ridiculous but hell, that's just me. So if Kim didn't beat Venus and Venus didn't beat Kim than who beat who? Are you telling me nobody beat anybody on that tennis court today, yet somebody walked off the winner? I must contact the WTA about this...

Brought It!
Nov 11th, 2002, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by PhoenixStorm
Im just happy theres no martina or jen in the mix to ruin such a great moment.


ME TOO.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 11th, 2002, 02:59 AM
you dont have to beat someone to win. Sorry but life is not that black and white and neither is sports. So when davenport withdrew at last years championship match which serena won, i guess in your twisted mind serena BEAT lindsay. Of course how did she BEAT lindsay if lindsay never stepped on the court? you can't beat someone if you dont play them!

Williams Rulez
Nov 11th, 2002, 09:52 AM
Why argue with o0O0o? He tries to make it seem like he has a 5 digit number for his IQ, but in actual fact, it just amounts to 0.

BasicTennis
Nov 11th, 2002, 09:55 AM
Serena is just improving while Jenny has reached her peak already.

irma
Nov 11th, 2002, 09:58 AM
because serena stopped eating meat!

BasicTennis
Nov 11th, 2002, 10:00 AM
how dare you're giving Serena's secret in here.:D

irma
Nov 11th, 2002, 10:02 AM
no everybody should know so we can all become vegetarians :p


but me :p

BasicTennis
Nov 11th, 2002, 10:06 AM
all non-vegetarians are not true Serena fans.:eek:

Lola
Nov 11th, 2002, 12:54 PM
because the net brings serena luck!

Volcana
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:14 PM
Serena used to hit a hard flat ball. Now she topspin 3 out of 4 of them. Far fewer careless errors. Also, I believe all of Jenn's losses to Serena this year either went 3 sets or had tie-breaks. It's close.

Yesterday, Serena had 14 aces.

Serena was -11 winners/UEs, Jenn was -12.

So they played even except for Serena's serve.

Weevee
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:30 PM
Victory ! I too will treat your claim as unsubstantiated rumour. But it is plausible.

Weevee
Nov 11th, 2002, 01:48 PM
Unfounded but plausible! Anxiety attacks are nothing to be ashamed of. Serena is a beef-eating McDonald selling vegetarian.