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View Full Version : OK, back to reality ...


GoDominique
Nov 9th, 2002, 01:09 PM
I'm really stunned how may posters are calling Venus vs. Monica a great match. It seems like most people have lowered their standards after watching all the other dreadful matches there so when they see a decent match with some spectacular points they are already going overboard.

Sure, it was an OK match. There were some great winners on both sides. Monica played well, especially returns and volleys. But there were so many things you can't call 'great' at all:

- 17 double-faults. Way too much for a match of only 2 sets.
- 60 unforced errors. More than a third of all points ended that way. Way too much for a great match.
- Awful net-play by Venus. Everytime she showed up at the net she did something very stupid (bad errors, hitting into Monica's racket, awful overheads etc.)
- Awful returns by Venus. So many mis-hits.
- Bad movement by Monica. OK, it's *yawn*, but it's also a part of quality. Of course Venus has more winners than usual, because Monica didn't even try to reach some shots other players definitely would have reached.

Maybe some people forget to look closely because of the crowd wildy cheering. But they were also quite easily satisfied (that seems to be the case for most US crowds).

I think we should make a list of really GREAT matches every poster should see before he/she is allowed to comment on the 'greatness' of a match.

King Aaron
Nov 9th, 2002, 01:16 PM
I can't comment because I didn't see it. But if we see the stats it really isn't a good match.

wongqks
Nov 9th, 2002, 01:22 PM
well yes the DF is bad, but then, if you count the no. of winners it is more than UF

Hardly did I see anyone hit 10 UFs in a match (apart from Martina in 1999/2000)

I have not seen the match so i can't comment, I am sure you have seen the match, so i cannot say anything

Bright Red
Nov 9th, 2002, 01:37 PM
It really doesn't matter what the stats say. If we think it was a great match, then...



...it was a great match.

Infiniti2001
Nov 9th, 2002, 01:50 PM
Let's face it, you never miss any opportunity to criticize Monica ... So what if "some" thought this was a great match, aren't they allowed to have an opinion??? If you want to sit and nitpick every friggin part of the match go ahead--- I know I just enjoy tennis PERIOD... It was great seeing my favs on the court after so long (even though it kills me that they played each other) Live and let live already :rolleyes:

rioak1
Nov 9th, 2002, 01:58 PM
the first set was exciting,it was good play even though monica was up 4-1 and should have won the set.she really can hit the returns pretty hard ,but venus had a serve of 121 mph.114,113,it's amazing that someone that isn't muscular can hit the ball so damn gard.

Pureracket
Nov 9th, 2002, 03:13 PM
The stats are necessary but misleading. The UEs don't say that Monica hit it into the net after a brilliant dropshot by Venus. They also won't tell you things like how Venus may have hit a backhand long after Monica pinned her behind the baseline and rushed the net.

Stats can be interpreted in several different ways.

I was on the edge of my seat. That's my reality.

CHOCO
Nov 9th, 2002, 03:24 PM
It may not have been a great match in terms of quality, but it was a great match IN TERMS OF DRAMA. That match kept everyone on edge throughout the match. It never lacked for excitement.

Venus Forever
Nov 9th, 2002, 03:29 PM
Fact: More Winners than UFE

Fact: Venus was 16/24 at net = 67%

So, it was high quality and as for Venus being bad at net, that statistic doesn't show that.

Volcana
Nov 9th, 2002, 03:43 PM
GoDominique - The stats don't tell you about the length of quality of the rallies. You talk about awful returns, but how could you mis the many great ones? The match had drama, it had tension. It was ENTERTAINING.

HIGHLY entertaining. And that, ultimately, is what makes matches great. It was very, very, very competitive with both players really putting out stretches of great play AT THE SAME TIME. If you didn't see it, I can see how the stats might mislead you. If you did see it, I'm sorry you couldn't appreciate it. I'm glad most folks did.

joao
Nov 9th, 2002, 06:27 PM
The match was a very good and entertaining one! I saw it and I can tell I hadn't enjoyed a match like that in a very long time! Why? because despite tons of UEs from both ladies, what's left in my mind right now it's the fantastic shots both executed. That was a high quality match ... how many 2 set matches last for almost 2h? Not many ... but this one was very competitive!

persond
Nov 9th, 2002, 07:46 PM
:D Opinions are like A-holes, everybody's got one!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:)So GoDominique, you happen to not like it and think it wasn't a good match. YOUR OPINION. I saw it and was quite entertained, and thought it a great match. MY OPINION.:)

Uxobi
Nov 9th, 2002, 11:29 PM
Compared to the previous matches, the Venus/Monica match was indeed a great match. Very entertaining match. The crowd really enjoyed it.

BigTennisFan
Nov 10th, 2002, 12:00 AM
What everybody said, except GoDominique.:angel:

I love matches that have drama. And that 12 minuute game that Venus FINALLY held was full of drama.

Stats! Schmats! They don't tell you anything that counts.:(

disposablehero
Nov 10th, 2002, 12:44 AM
Wow, this thread is a real shock.

Weevee
Nov 10th, 2002, 01:44 AM
Stats Schmats
Stats Schmats
Stats Schmats
Stats Schmats

Rubylips
Nov 10th, 2002, 02:43 AM
To me it was GREAT.Both player"s play their hearts and soul.That it in a nut shell.Great job lady.Thanks ladies.

GoDominique
Nov 10th, 2002, 06:27 PM
Whatever. I watched the match, and no, I'm not a stats-fanatic. That's why I added some other impressions I got from watching.

IMO it was an average match. OK, I knew the result, so tension wasn't included, but that isn't part of quality either way. But, if everyone else was happy with the match, then so be it.

When you call something 'great', then it means there sin't much room for improvement left. If that was the case, there would be no need to watch the semifinals. However, I WILL watch them, as I still have some faith in the players.

mishar
Nov 11th, 2002, 04:15 AM
It was a terrific match -- probably the only match of the week where both players hit about the same # of winners/errors. Also the games were long and filled with great points and it felt like most of the games could go either way. Sure, there were some bad misses here and there, but at least they weren't just hitting back in the center of the court, like a lot of the points in the Serena/Cappie match.
Was it one of the "great" matches of all time? No of course not. But to me (and many others) the match of the tournament (so far.)

And Godom do you ever do anything but criticize and be contemptuous?