PDA

View Full Version : Womens Tennis in General


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

Chrissie-fan
Sep 6th, 2011, 04:19 PM
A thread that I hope will be a nice alternative to the vile General Morons board that I don't recognize as a legitimate tennis forum but just as a meeting place for the mentally deranged. Although this is primarily set up for the regular posters on Caroline's player forum it's ok for the non-Caro fan who may stumble in here to participate as well. Just as long as they refrain from player bashing (especially Caro bashing), name-calling and trolling. Otherwise there's no point to this and it's better to stick to General Morons.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 6th, 2011, 04:28 PM
Ok guys, any predictions about how these 1/4 matches are going to play out?

Caroline Wozniacki VS Andrea Petkovic

Serena Williams VS Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova

Angelique Kerber VS Flavia Pennetta

Samantha Stosur VS Vera Zvonareva

DownInAHole
Sep 6th, 2011, 04:42 PM
My predictions are very safe and boring.

Caroline in two close sets, maybe one of them going to a tiebreak.

Serena in two relatively easy sets.

Flavia in two close sets.

As far as Vera and Sam I am going against the head to head (which Stosur leads 7-2 with Vera's two wins coming way back in 2004) and picking Vera to win. She looked fantastic against Lisicki and I can not fathom why she has such a poor record against Sam.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 6th, 2011, 04:54 PM
The outcome of the Serena/Pavlyuchenkova and Kerber/Pennetta matches is pretty much a foregone conclusion I think. I hope Caroline can get past Petkovic, but I admit that I'm nervous about that one. Vera/Stosur is on paper the match that is the most open. I hope that Vera can pull it off. She's obviously ranking-wise a bigger threat for our girl than Sam, but she's been so good for so long without ever really getting the recognition for it that I'll be rooting for her in that one.

Crockett
Sep 6th, 2011, 05:10 PM
Before I check the odds market, here are my favorites and my assessment of the odds:

Caroline 1.75
Serena 1.08
Flavia 1.65
Vera 1.90

I will be back in a little while with a follow-up from the market.

Crockett
Sep 6th, 2011, 05:15 PM
Before I check the odds market, here are my favorites and my assessment of the odds:

Caroline 1.75
Serena 1.08
Flavia 1.65
Vera 1.90

I will be back in a little while with a follow-up from the market.
And the market has:

Caroline 1.48
Serena 1.09
Flavia 1.43
Vera 1.76

With those odds and my assessment, I should be hedging by betting Caroline, Flavia, and Vera to lose. But I am not going to bet at all; I am going to watch Caroline's match and bite my nails as usual. For today, I will be rooting for Sam.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 6th, 2011, 05:19 PM
And the market has:

Caroline 1.48
Serena 1.09
Flavia 1.43
Vera 1.76

With those odds and my assessment, I should be hedging by betting Caroline, Flavia, and Vera to lose. But I am not going to bet at all; I am going to watch Caroline's match and bite my nails as usual. For today, I will be rooting for Sam.
Not being a betting man myself, what does this all mean? The lower the number the more likely they are to win?

Jimmie48
Sep 6th, 2011, 06:21 PM
I´m no expert on betting but a low odd means the player/team is expected more likely to win, so you get less money out of it since it's a "safe" bet.

Serena is obviously the favorite, that's why her odd is the lowest.

postalblowfish
Sep 6th, 2011, 06:41 PM
I hope Bepa doesn't lose another final.

DownInAHole
Sep 6th, 2011, 07:03 PM
I hope Bepa doesn't lose another final.

But...what if she plays Caroline in the final?

NedRise
Sep 6th, 2011, 07:06 PM
I was thinking last night (when Caro was behind) how I was going to have little to cheer for in this year's Open once she lost. Personally not a fan of any of the remaining, other than Zvonerava somewhat.

My predictions:

Caro
Serena
Flavia
Vera

If I were betting, I would bet on Vera (at current odds). She's playing really well just now, and showed she has the potential to handle a Serena-type game in the Lisicki match.

If it makes it to that, I think Caro has a chance against Serena (at least more than the odds give her). Somebody started a thread in GM on this (and got summarily dismissed) but I think the only way you beat Serena right now is to get her moving without giving her much to hit (easier said than done), like Vika in the second set against her. The commentators talk about her fitness, but I'm not seeing that -- I think she could end up looking like Svetlana in a long 3-set match.

postalblowfish
Sep 6th, 2011, 07:07 PM
But...what if she plays Caroline in the final?

Yeah, well. Long way to go on that one yet.

DownInAHole
Sep 6th, 2011, 07:37 PM
Huh, play has been cancelled for the day. Weather permitting, tomorrow should be an exciting day of tennis.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 6th, 2011, 07:40 PM
If it makes it to that, I think Caro has a chance against Serena (at least more than the odds give her). Somebody started a thread in GM on this (and got summarily dismissed) but I think the only way you beat Serena right now is to get her moving without giving her much to hit (easier said than done), like Vika in the second set against her. The commentators talk about her fitness, but I'm not seeing that -- I think she could end up looking like Svetlana in a long 3-set match.
Making a long three-set match out of it is the hard part of course. I'm not sure what Caroline should do. Trying to move Serena around without giving her much to hit is an option for Vika because she hits with more pace than Caroline. I don't know. I remember Capriati doing well against Serena by hitting to the middle of the court and not giving her any angles. Serena used to make more UE than usual in those matches.

TennisFan66
Sep 6th, 2011, 08:00 PM
I like the idea of this thread very much! Like Chrissie I too venture into Generally Mental today. Same ol', same 'ol. No purpose what-so-ever of going there. All attempt at a level headed discussion is quickly trolled out by the usual suspects.

QF
Fingers and toes crossed for Caroline!
Impossible to see anything but a Serena win.
Kerber isnt all that bad, but the routine of Penetta to carry her through.
Stosur Vs Vera. This is a toss up for me. Stosur, I believe, has won their last 7 encounters! Vera has the better hard court game.Windy advantage for Vera, but isnt handling Sam's 'spin* as well as wind *Flips a coin*

SwissMiss19
Sep 6th, 2011, 08:05 PM
Caroline
Serena (blech)
Flavia
50/50 chance between Stosur and Vera. Stosur goes into her mental lapses, as we all know, so it matters how she will perform mentally. Vera can be the same way but she has been very consistent this tournament; flying under the radar has helped her. I am leaning more towards Vera.

Crockett
Sep 6th, 2011, 11:22 PM
Not being a betting man myself, what does this all mean? The lower the number the more likely they are to win?
Exactly. The odds tell how much money you are paid if your bet of 1 wins. If the odds are 2.00, you get your money doubled - this is also known as evens, a toss-up or fifty-fifty.

In a tennis match, the favorite (as the market sees it) will always have odds between 1.00 and 2.00, while the underdog will have odds from 2.00 and up.

The odds also estimate the probability that the player wins. The favorite will have a probability between 50 % and 100 % to win. Odds 1.67 corresponds to 60 %, odds 1.25 corresponds to 80 %, and odds 1.11 corresponds to 90 %. Mathematically savvy readers will understand that the odds and the probability are reciprocal numbers.

DownInAHole
Sep 7th, 2011, 12:22 AM
Exactly. The odds tell how much money you are paid if your bet of 1 wins. If the odds are 2.00, you get your money doubled - this is also known as evens, a toss-up or fifty-fifty.

In a tennis match, the favorite (as the market sees it) will always have odds between 1.00 and 2.00, while the underdog will have odds from 2.00 and up.

The odds also estimate the probability that the player wins. The favorite will have a probability between 50 % and 100 % to win. Odds 1.67 corresponds to 60 %, odds 1.25 corresponds to 80 %, and odds 1.11 corresponds to 90 %. Mathematically savvy readers will understand that the odds and the probability are reciprocal numbers.

You lost me at "exactly.":lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 7th, 2011, 12:34 AM
You lost me at "exactly.":lol:
It means that Caroline is the favorite to beat Petkovic and that Serena and Pavlyuchenkova shouldn't even bother playing. :lol:

TennisFan66
Sep 7th, 2011, 12:54 AM
It means that Caroline is the favorite to beat Petkovic and that Serena and Pavlyuchenkova shouldn't even bother playing. :lol:

That pretty much sums it up :) The lowest I've ever seen Caro be for a match is 1.04 btw ...:)

Chrissie-fan
Sep 7th, 2011, 01:35 AM
That pretty much sums it up :) The lowest I've ever seen Caro be for a match is 1.04 btw ...:)
Against who was that? Brie Whitehead? :lol:

Martian Jeza
Sep 7th, 2011, 02:18 AM
What I miss bloody much and not a little bit is a player that don't use ball bashing or power tennis to beat their opponent but using their brains and thinking tennis is like a chess game like Martina Hingis did in her prime : I'm so nostalgic about those times : and without power and without ball bashing you can win slams : Martina showed it ! Why all those girls have to follow the bad steps of the WS ? FFS ! The WS have destroyed the beauty of the women's tennis game by bringing that physical and brutal tennis ! That's why I admired Martina so much and still am her n°1 Belgian fan : well at least at the French part side :p

Brad[le]y.
Sep 7th, 2011, 04:46 AM
What I miss bloody much and not a little bit is a player that don't use ball bashing or power tennis to beat their opponent but using their brains and thinking tennis is like a chess game like Martina Hingis did in her prime : I'm so nostalgic about those times : and without power and without ball bashing you can win slams : Martina showed it ! Why all those girls have to follow the bad steps of the WS ? FFS ! The WS have destroyed the beauty of the women's tennis game by bringing that physical and brutal tennis ! That's why I admired Martina so much and still am her n°1 Belgian fan : well at least at the French part side :p

Martina is the best :hearts:

Bonfire
Sep 7th, 2011, 04:57 AM
My apologies if this was already discussed to death here in another Caro forum thread but...
I'm curious as to how you guys felt about that Hingis interview where she was asked about her and Caroline being similar. I've always had such an appreciation for Hingis's game but I must admit, Martina's comments left me disappointed in her. I feel as though I may have taken it to heart a bit much though so I wanted to see what your perspective on it was since there seems to be alot of Hingis/Caroline fans here.

Bonfire
Sep 7th, 2011, 05:08 AM
as far the QF (please let the rain allow it tomorrow) predictions..

Caroline in 2
Serena in 2
Vera in 3
Pennetta in 3

those are my picks

marineblue
Sep 7th, 2011, 06:30 AM
I was also surprised that Martina responded like that. She should show more respect to Caroline. Although, the person who interviewed her was one of those hacks who does not like Caroline so maybe he kind of pushed her to say that. If not, it was pretty low from Martina especially because Wozniacki was her fan.

Bonfire
Sep 7th, 2011, 06:54 AM
I was also surprised that Martina responded like that. She should show more respect to Caroline. Although, the person who interviewed her was one of those hacks who does not like Caroline so maybe he kind of pushed her to say that. If not, it was pretty low from Martina especially because Wozniacki was her fan.

Yeah I had heard that the guy interviewing her was sort of anti-Wozniacki so I had wondered if some her words were taken out of context.

Brad[le]y.
Sep 7th, 2011, 08:00 AM
Yeah I had heard that the guy interviewing her was sort of anti-Wozniacki so I had wondered if some her words were taken out of context.

Referring to Amélie Mauresmo's muscular build on the eve of their 1999 Australian Open final, Hingis told reporters, "She's half a man."

When asked in the late 1990s how she felt about the budding rivalry between herself and the then-up-and-coming Anna Kournikova, Hingis responded, "What rivalry? I win all the matches."

After the Williams sisters (Venus and Serena) had complained of discrimination against them, Hingis told Time magazine in 2001: "Being black only helps them. Many times they get sponsors because they are black. And they have had a lot of advantages because they can always say, 'It's racism.' They can always come back and say, 'Because we are this color, things happen.'"

At the peak of the Williams sisters' and Hingis' competitive and fierce rivalry, Hingis stated in a press conference during the 1999 US Open referring to the sisters' remarks, "They always have big mouths. They always talk a lot. It's happened before, so it's gonna happen again. I don't really worry about that."

On the long-dominant player, Steffi Graf, Hingis said, "Steffi has had some results in the past, but it's a faster, more athletic game now than when she played. She is old now. Her time has passed." (Hingis made this comment in 1998 while Graf was on an injury-related hiatus from tennis, and before she lost against the German player in the 1999 French Open final).

Responding in a 1999 press conference on why she terminated her doubles partnership with former Wimbledon champion Jana Novotná, Hingis remarked, "She's old and slow."



I wonder if these are out of context too :p
but Martina is much more mature and humble now and those words are most likely out of context.

Bonfire
Sep 7th, 2011, 08:14 AM
:lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 7th, 2011, 09:12 AM
What I miss bloody much and not a little bit is a player that don't use ball bashing or power tennis to beat their opponent but using their brains and thinking tennis is like a chess game like Martina Hingis did in her prime : I'm so nostalgic about those times : and without power and without ball bashing you can win slams : Martina showed it ! Why all those girls have to follow the bad steps of the WS ? FFS ! The WS have destroyed the beauty of the women's tennis game by bringing that physical and brutal tennis ! That's why I admired Martina so much and still am her n°1 Belgian fan : well at least at the French part side :p
I think it were Seles and Capriati that started the age of power tennis actually. Their 1991 semi final at the USO is legendary for introducing, or at least popularizing power hitting. Of course, the Williams sisters took it further still, but you have to keep in mind that tennis rackets continue to improve all the time and that the game evolves with the material that the players have at their disposal. Power hitters dominate the game today because the modern rackets with their huge sweetspot and trampoline effect reward that type of play. It would have been impossible to play like that with the rackets of thirty years ago. In the age of power tennis it becomes increasingly difficult for 'touch players' to be competitive with the ball constantly coming at you with the speed of light. Hingis, ok. But Hingis is a genius.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 7th, 2011, 09:37 AM
Referring to Amélie Mauresmo's muscular build on the eve of their 1999 Australian Open final, Hingis told reporters, "She's half a man."

When asked in the late 1990s how she felt about the budding rivalry between herself and the then-up-and-coming Anna Kournikova, Hingis responded, "What rivalry? I win all the matches."

After the Williams sisters (Venus and Serena) had complained of discrimination against them, Hingis told Time magazine in 2001: "Being black only helps them. Many times they get sponsors because they are black. And they have had a lot of advantages because they can always say, 'It's racism.' They can always come back and say, 'Because we are this color, things happen.'"

At the peak of the Williams sisters' and Hingis' competitive and fierce rivalry, Hingis stated in a press conference during the 1999 US Open referring to the sisters' remarks, "They always have big mouths. They always talk a lot. It's happened before, so it's gonna happen again. I don't really worry about that."

On the long-dominant player, Steffi Graf, Hingis said, "Steffi has had some results in the past, but it's a faster, more athletic game now than when she played. She is old now. Her time has passed." (Hingis made this comment in 1998 while Graf was on an injury-related hiatus from tennis, and before she lost against the German player in the 1999 French Open final).

Responding in a 1999 press conference on why she terminated her doubles partnership with former Wimbledon champion Jana Novotná, Hingis remarked, "She's old and slow."



I wonder if these are out of context too :p
but Martina is much more mature and humble now and those words are most likely out of context.
I absolutely loved Martina's cocky attitude. Maybe she went a bit too far at times, but she was also funny, wasn't intimidated by anyone and had supreme confidence in her own talent. I remember that after winning the AO singles and doubles she said, "I'm not competing in the mixed this year. I want to give the others the chance to win something." :lol:.....Muhammad Ali, listen to this girl and learn what being cocky really is all about. :lol:

But my #1 absolute fave happened at a press conference once after one of her matches. Unfortunately I don't remember who the opponent had been, but it went something like this....
Reporter: "Martina, you always seem to have a smile on your face when you're playing. Today at times you almost seemed to be laughing."
Martina: "Well, she was trying so hard. It was as though she actually thought that she could win." :lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 7th, 2011, 09:59 AM
My apologies if this was already discussed to death here in another Caro forum thread but...
I'm curious as to how you guys felt about that Hingis interview where she was asked about her and Caroline being similar. I've always had such an appreciation for Hingis's game but I must admit, Martina's comments left me disappointed in her. I feel as though I may have taken it to heart a bit much though so I wanted to see what your perspective on it was since there seems to be alot of Hingis/Caroline fans here.
I was disappointed, but not shocked. But I wouldn't be surprised if the guy doing the asking had an agenda and tried to guide her towards such an answer. And I think Martina also considers herself to be one of a kind and doesn't really like for other players (no matter who) to be compared to her.

TennisFan66
Sep 7th, 2011, 11:17 AM
My apologies if this was already discussed to death here in another Caro forum thread but...
I'm curious as to how you guys felt about that Hingis interview where she was asked about her and Caroline being similar. I've always had such an appreciation for Hingis's game but I must admit, Martina's comments left me disappointed in her. I feel as though I may have taken it to heart a bit much though so I wanted to see what your perspective on it was since there seems to be alot of Hingis/Caroline fans here.

What Hingis interview is it and what did she say?

Chrissie-fan
Sep 7th, 2011, 12:25 PM
What Hingis interview is it and what did she say?

http://www.tennischannel.com/news/NewsDetails.aspx?newsid=9530

DownInAHole
Sep 7th, 2011, 05:12 PM
Sure, Martina could have been a bit more diplomatic but diplomacy is boring.:lol:

I don't think anything she said about her game vs. Caroline's game is untrue. Martina had a much wider variety of shots in her arsenal. The one clear advantage that Caroline has over her is the serve but even there I think Caroline could be better. She is fairly tall and big, there's no reason that her second serves need to be so weak.

I would love it if Caroline was motivated to add more shots to her game. She's never going to be the type of player to hit her opponents off of the court and nail tons of winners but she can win points/matches with her brains. There are key shots that she lacks and I hope that she adds them to her game in the off season. For example, it would be great if she added a reliable dropshot, especially on clay, and, while she has shown improvement, I do think that her volleys/net play can get much better.

TennisFan66
Sep 7th, 2011, 05:18 PM
http://www.tennischannel.com/news/NewsDetails.aspx?newsid=9530

As soon I saw the name 'Matt Cronin' I knew where it was going and didn't read any further :lol: .. but thanks anyway, Chrissy!

Chrissie-fan
Sep 7th, 2011, 05:23 PM
I don't think anything she said about her game vs. Caroline's game is untrue. Martina had a much wider variety of shots in her arsenal.
Yes, but Martina knows that Caroline is a big fan of her AND that she's already under constant attack from the media. Considering those two things I would have hoped for a more sympathetic reply. But I admire Martina's game so much that I'm willing to forgive absolutely everything she may say or do.

Bonfire
Sep 7th, 2011, 05:39 PM
Thanks for the answers.
One thing that I need to remember as a poster in GM is too not let those idiots sway me into over the top reactions. I wrote some heart felt responses in that thread against Martina but then realized that I was caught up more in combatting all of the trolls(for lack of a better word) who were taking Martina's comments and using them to once again attack Caroline with comments like "this is the first time I've ever liked Martina" and "Martina is my hero for these words" etc, etc. I was totally fighting more against them than I was Martina despite the fact that I still think Hingis could have vocalized her opinions differently.
It's so nice that "Chrissie-fan" has started a general thread like this here to discuss things without all of the psychos getting in the way:lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 7th, 2011, 05:55 PM
Sooner or later one of those psychos will stumble in here and start trolling. Let's all agree that if and when that happens we'll all ignore said fruitcake and just let Ryan remove his post(s).

DownInAHole
Sep 7th, 2011, 05:56 PM
Yes, but Martina knows that Caroline is a big fan of her AND that she's already under constant attack from the media. Considering those two things I would have hoped for a more sympathetic reply. But I admire Martina's game so much that I'm willing to forgive absolutely everything she may say or do.

I can see that side of it but even as a fan of Caroline I find it very refreshing to read blunt answers like that. Far too often we get overly polite, anodyne answers that don't really say anything.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 7th, 2011, 05:59 PM
I can see that side of it but even as a fan of Caroline I find it very refreshing to read blunt answers like that. Far too often we get overly polite, anodyne answers that don't really say anything.
That's true. If you ask her something Martina will give you her honest opinion.

Bonfire
Sep 7th, 2011, 06:59 PM
Sooner or later one of those psychos will stumble in here and start trolling. Let's all agree that if and when that happens we'll all ignore said fruitcake and just let Ryan remove his post(s).

you got it!:yeah:

Burisleif
Sep 7th, 2011, 07:16 PM
I can see that side of it but even as a fan of Caroline I find it very refreshing to read blunt answers like that. Far too often we get overly polite, anodyne answers that don't really say anything.

Be it blunt, or be it polite, neither is a measure of honesty or impartiality... As such delivery method isn't really important, and shouldn't be the measure of validity.

David Mercer was quite refreshing in his appraisal, which iirc was along the lines of, yes she is not all there yet but I feel she has what it takes to win it now.

Brad[le]y.
Sep 8th, 2011, 06:01 AM
Rain is stupid. on the west coast, there's not a cloud in the sky; and we're known for rain :yippee:

DownInAHole
Sep 8th, 2011, 10:41 AM
Rain is stupid. on the west coast, there's not a cloud in the sky; and we're known for rain :yippee:

Without rain we would all die horribly thirsty deaths.;)

Chrissie-fan
Sep 8th, 2011, 10:45 AM
Rain is stupid.
Having no roof - THAT's stupid.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 8th, 2011, 10:57 AM
The sad thing is that if there is any play today poor Kerber and Pennetta will be banned to court 17. A slam 1/4 final is a highlight in their careers for those girls and they will have to play on a small-ish court to empty stands while everyone is following the action on the three main courts.

Protoss
Sep 8th, 2011, 11:22 AM
The sad thing is that if there is any play today poor Kerber and Pennetta will be banned to court 17. A slam 1/4 final is a highlight in their careers for those girls and they will have to play on a small-ish court to empty stands while everyone is following the action on the three main courts.
Yah, it's a sucky situation.

Caro and Yanina Wickmayer had to play their US Open semifinal with a very small crowd on Armstrong back in 2009. Caro has gotten other chances to play grand slam semifinals with full crowds but Wickmayer hasn't.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 8th, 2011, 12:35 PM
Yah, it's a sucky situation.

Totally unfair in my opinion. They should fit them in somewhere on a big court. Same for Caroline and Wickmayer in 2009. Having to play the biggest match of your life in such a setting - the lack of respect is annoying.

Vicmatibla
Sep 8th, 2011, 02:03 PM
Is there a reason why they can't cover the courts when it's raining? They would spend less time drying the courts because they wouldn't be so wet.

C. W. Fields
Sep 8th, 2011, 03:41 PM
http://i.imgur.com/vwktJ.jpg

Crockett
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:28 PM
Sam Stosur takes out Vera Zvonarëva 63 63 :bounce::bounce::bounce:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:30 PM
Sam Stosur takes out Vera Zvonarëva 63 63 :bounce::bounce::bounce:
Congrats. She'll probably make the final now.

DownInAHole
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:32 PM
Grrr, can someone please explain to me why Vera is incapable of defeating Stosur? Yes, I know, Vera did beat her twice in 2004 but what is it about Sam's game that she has trouble with?

TennisFan66
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:43 PM
Grrr, can someone please explain to me why Vera is incapable of defeating Stosur? Yes, I know, Vera did beat her twice in 2004 but what is it about Sam's game that she has trouble with? Spin. Hitting the balls shoulder high.

DownInAHole
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:45 PM
Spin. Hitting the balls shoulder high.

So after losing seven matches in a row (now eight) Vera still hasn't figured that out? Can't she just take the balls early?

Vera played so great to take out Lisicki, I'm a bit gutted that she went out so easily.

Protoss
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:49 PM
So after losing seven matches in a row (now eight) Vera still hasn't figured that out? Can't she just take the balls early?

Vera played so great to take out Lisicki, I'm a bit gutted that she went out so easily.
The score is pretty dissapointing considering how close their last 2 matches were.

Burisleif
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:52 PM
Sam in the Semis is just not something I have any desire to celebrate...

Jimmie48
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:53 PM
Serena has won and I for one am glad. Not because I care for her but I don't want Caro to reach a slam final without beating a top player along the way.

Burisleif
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:54 PM
Serena has won and I for one am glad. Not because I care for her but I don't want Caro to reach a slam final without beating a top player along the way.

Why? Make zero sense to me and no doubt to Caro... you play whomever is there.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 8th, 2011, 07:59 PM
Pav could have won that first set, but she didn't believe she could and so she didn't.

Jimmie48
Sep 8th, 2011, 08:03 PM
Why? Make zero sense to me and no doubt to Caro... you play whomever is there.

Because if she reaches a slam final or even wins it beating no top player it will take away from the accomplishment... the media will point out how the draw fell apart etc.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 8th, 2011, 08:08 PM
Because if she reaches a slam final or even wins it beating no top player it will take away from the accomplishment... the media will point out how the draw fell apart etc.
The media....who cares? You still have to beat the one who beat the one when that happens.

Burisleif
Sep 8th, 2011, 08:16 PM
Because if she reaches a slam final or even wins it beating no top player it will take away from the accomplishment... the media will point out how the draw fell apart etc.

I'm honestly surprised and disappointed you think that way... :sad:

The media will spin what ever the feel like... They stopped reporting a long time ago and turned into policy driving mechanism... Stuff the media.

Jimmie48
Sep 8th, 2011, 08:18 PM
The media....who cares? You still have to beat the one who beat the one when that happens.

Everybody does, in case you haven't noticed. In order to get really rid of the slamless-stigma, she needs to win her first one in a big fashion and that includes beating a player like Serena along the way.

Jimmie48
Sep 8th, 2011, 08:19 PM
I'm honestly surprised and disappointed you think that way... :sad:



Why? Wouldn't we all take more satisfaction in her first slam if she beats a top player for it? I don't want her to succeed because of a lucky draw or because other people's inabbilities. And I don't think Caro wants that either... she wants to prove she's the best...and not just the least-unfortunate.

Burisleif
Sep 8th, 2011, 08:27 PM
Why? Wouldn't we all take more satisfaction in her first slam if she beats a top player for it? I don't want her to succeed because of a lucky draw or because other people's inabbilities. And I don't think Caro wants that either... she wants to prove she's the best...and not just the least-unfortunate.

I honestly don't care who she beats on the way to a slam. I'm not super bothered about the slam...

Sport has bugger all to do with who you beat. you play who gets to the next round.

Putting conditions on a win is frankly absurd.

And no I don't care what the media say... neither did I care what the little shits in the playground said or any other form of legitimate or illegitimate lynch mob. I'm perfectly comfortable making my own reasoned opinions and conclusions. As such I boycott unreasonable media sources, and vote on their performance with my wallet, and the regulatory authorities if needed. The world is what we make it.

TennisFan66
Sep 8th, 2011, 10:30 PM
Everybody does, in case you haven't noticed. In order to get really rid of the slamless-stigma, she needs to win her first one in a big fashion and that includes beating a player like Serena along the way.

Jimmie, I can promise you 'death and taxes' are for sure. I can also promise you, even Caroline wipes out Serena Williams and wipes out whomever is facing her in the final, muppets in GM will still find a way to detract from her achievement and post their insults.

I can also promise you, media people like Matt Cronin and this discount French ballbasher academy leader will do the same. So will whatshername Caprillo (?) ..

Best advice given by Chrissie: 'Fuck the media opinion'.

Protoss
Sep 8th, 2011, 10:39 PM
Sigh. Flavia loses the 3rd set 6-3 after being up 3-1. :rolleyes: That was probably Flavia's best chance to ever make a grand slam semi.

Jimmie48
Sep 8th, 2011, 10:43 PM
So Kerber makes the semis and absolutely nobody in Germany even cares. There's like zero tennis coverage in the mainstream media, a real shame that her success goes completely unnoticed.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 8th, 2011, 10:51 PM
Everybody does, in case you haven't noticed. In order to get really rid of the slamless-stigma, she needs to win her first one in a big fashion and that includes beating a player like Serena along the way.
It's a pointless discussion by now since getting past Serena will be the only possible road to the title.

But for the sake of argument. who you beat is only really a point of discussion immediately after your victory. In the long run the only thing that's important is that your name is on the trophee. Besides - if Serena would have lost today it would have been HER failure, not Caroline's. Caroline can't win Serena's matches for her, so I don't see how Serena not making it could be held against Caroline.

Protoss
Sep 8th, 2011, 10:55 PM
So Kerber makes the semis and absolutely nobody in Germany even cares. There's like zero tennis coverage in the mainstream media, a real shame that her success goes completely unnoticed.
It's kind of funny that it's Kerber that makes the US Open semis and not Petkovic, Lisicki, or Goerges.

How much media coverage did the other German women get?

Chrissie-fan
Sep 8th, 2011, 10:58 PM
Sigh. Flavia loses the 3rd set 6-3 after being up 3-1. :rolleyes: That was probably Flavia's best chance to ever make a grand slam semi.
HUGE upset for me. I expected Flavia to win that one easily.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 8th, 2011, 11:14 PM
I honestly don't care who she beats on the way to a slam. I'm not super bothered about the slam...

It would be AMAZING if she could do it. I would be very happy, and more importantly SHE would be very happy. But in all objectivity, she IS a huge underdog against Serena, and we shouldn't be too upset let alone hold it against Caroline if she wouldn't make it. Really, this has been a GREAT USO for her. In fact, it's hard to believe what she has achieved when you consider how we were talking just a few weeks ago.

Jimmie48
Sep 8th, 2011, 11:18 PM
How much media coverage did the other German women get?

Very little, Petkovic sometimes gets some coverage because of her antics but it's all well-hidden, even in sports newspapers. None of the tournaments are on the network TV channels, only Wimbledon was on SKY Sport which is a pay channel though as well. Eurosport is not really that popular with casual sport fans, you need some network coverage to get people interested.

It seems to me that tennis is only popular to people who play themselves, the casual sports fan who watches sports on tv don't care anymore. It was very different during the Becker/Graf era when Tennis was one of the most popular TV sports, only rivaled by football (soccer). But those times are long gone, that's why Germany has been losing all the tournaments as well. We´re lucky to still have Stuttgart I guess...

When I tell friends that I´m a fan of Caro I usually have to explain who she is, even to people who follow sports on TV. The only time tennis makes a mainstream media appearance is in tabloids when Sharapova has made another bikini-shooting and they have a "the hottest tennis babes" kind of thing. But the interest in the sport is very low...

Protoss
Sep 9th, 2011, 12:20 AM
Ugh. Espn 2 gave a recap of today's men's matches at the start of their primetime coverage but didn't give a recap of today's women's matches. :(

Protoss
Sep 9th, 2011, 12:38 AM
About 20 minutes later Espn 2 finally gave a recap of today's women's matches. :) It didn't seem to last as long as the recap of today's men's matches though.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 9th, 2011, 07:35 AM
Too nice? :lol: :rolleyes:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904900904576554850313322900.html

Bonfire
Sep 9th, 2011, 08:33 AM
Too nice? :lol: :rolleyes:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904900904576554850313322900.html

Read that in GM and thought it was overall pretty silly as well.
So happy for Caro that she allows herself to have friends and speak to other players. The idea of her walking into a locker room and all other players just cowering away without daring to approach her just sounds sad and cold.
Imagine traveling the world over throughout the entire season with this awkward aura. Only her team to talk too.
Don't get me wrong...I grew up in the era of Hingis, Capriati, and Williams Sisters drama and I loved it. But this new generation of "nice" is quite refreshing in my opinion.
I've never been too fond of the whole "your my competitor therefore I do not like you" sort of thing.
Personally there is enough "cold, fierce diva drama" on any reality t.v. show, music channel, etc. that at the end of the day...
competitive TENNIS is enough for me:shrug:

TennisFan66
Sep 9th, 2011, 09:17 AM
Imagine traveling the world over throughout the entire season with this awkward aura. Only her team to talk too.

CoughMariaCoughCoughSharapovaCough

Chrissie-fan
Sep 9th, 2011, 01:12 PM
Read that in GM and thought it was overall pretty silly as well.
So happy for Caro that she allows herself to have friends and speak to other players. The idea of her walking into a locker room and all other players just cowering away without daring to approach her just sounds sad and cold.
Imagine traveling the world over throughout the entire season with this awkward aura. Only her team to talk too.
Don't get me wrong...I grew up in the era of Hingis, Capriati, and Williams Sisters drama and I loved it. But this new generation of "nice" is quite refreshing in my opinion.
I've never been too fond of the whole "your my competitor therefore I do not like you" sort of thing.
Personally there is enough "cold, fierce diva drama" on any reality t.v. show, music channel, etc. that at the end of the day...
competitive TENNIS is enough for me:shrug:
Players who would rather punch each other on the nose than shake each other's hand....it had something, but looking back now it was also a bit silly. Besides, that attitude has now been brought to a whole new level of excellence by players' fans on General Morons. :lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 9th, 2011, 02:19 PM
So after losing seven matches in a row (now eight) Vera still hasn't figured that out? Can't she just take the balls early?
It's probably not that easy. Even Federer has never really figured out what to do with Nadal's topspin balls to his backhand. I too am a bit disappointed for Vera though.

Bonfire
Sep 9th, 2011, 04:42 PM
Players who would rather punch each other on the nose than shake each other's hand....it had something, but looking back now it was also a bit silly. Besides, that attitude has now been brought to a whole new level of excellence by players' fans on General Morons. :lol:

exactly and that's the thing really...it was alot more interesting when it was just the player's themselves playing "the game" but now with (G Morons:lol:)
attitude/drama has been taken to a pathetic level that makes me sort of hate it.(and sometimes go there and make fun of it at the same time;))

Bonfire
Sep 9th, 2011, 04:45 PM
CoughMariaCoughCoughSharapovaCough

;)
I always could sort of sense that with Maria. Aside from the grunting that aggravates me, her "distant, cold" demeanor was a main reason I could never really get into liking her.

DownInAHole
Sep 9th, 2011, 04:53 PM
It's probably not that easy. Even Federer has never really figured out what to do with Nadal's topspin balls to his backhand. I too am a bit disappointed for Vera though.

For certain it is not that easy but still, Vera is a great player and it absolutely baffles me that Stosur has such a hold over her.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 9th, 2011, 05:00 PM
;)
I always could sort of sense that with Maria. Aside from the grunting that aggravates me, her "distant, cold" demeanor was a main reason I could never really get into liking her.
I'm not a big fan of her game, but I admire her fighting spirit. Often going into one of her matches I want the other girl to win, but she usually wins me over and I start rooting for her because she wants it so much.

Bonfire
Sep 9th, 2011, 07:08 PM
I'm not a big fan of her game, but I admire her fighting spirit. Often going into one of her matches I want the other girl to win, but she usually wins me over and I start rooting for her because she wants it so much.

Yes I agree that her "fighting spirit" is her most admirable quality. Agree also about the game. I've always been a fan of players like Caro, Jen and Kim who can be aggressive if need be but more importantly can play awesome defense, getting alot of balls back and moving around the court with great speed. With Maria...her shots are awesome and penetrating when she is "on" but her lack of defensive skills were always a downer for me. Same story with Davenport. Just hard for me to be excited about watching someone who will almost always lose the point once they are on the run.

Burisleif
Sep 9th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Players who would rather punch each other on the nose than shake each other's hand....it had something, but looking back now it was also a bit silly. Besides, that attitude has now been brought to a whole new level of excellence by players' fans on General Morons. :lol:

It's a pleasant change to have a group of generally calm and respectful fans here in this section. Its not quite the same in all the player sections.

Sarin needs to tear that girl a new VAGINA asap..plain and simple. No anaesthetic, just reach down and snatch, the snatch in one quick motion..No Mercy at all...serena better use those blonde tracks to revert back to blonderena, a la 2002...snatch the bitch, plain and simple

As much as I respect most players, some fan groups... well what can you say really. I guess they would mistakenly call me a pussy :lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 9th, 2011, 07:32 PM
It's a pleasant change to have a group of generally calm and respectful fans here in this section. Its not quite the same in all the player sections.



As much as I respect most players, some fan groups... well what can you say really. I guess they would mistakenly call me a pussy :lol:

Well, when I say that I think that many posters on TF are mentally disturbed I don't mean it "in a manner of speaking" - I mean it for real. That guy who stabbed Seles probably would have been a poster on TF if it had been around in those days. And some of the posters there are now are insane enough to do something similar if the right buttons are pushed and they would have the opportunity.

EnerBC
Sep 9th, 2011, 07:33 PM
Dear god :/
This is the first and last time I venture in that section of the board, they are a disgrace to Serena's name(at least the posts after the one you quoted).. :(

postalblowfish
Sep 9th, 2011, 07:36 PM
That's not the first utterly idiotic post that particular user's made.

DownInAHole
Sep 9th, 2011, 07:37 PM
Yes I agree that her "fighting spirit" is her most admirable quality. Agree also about the game. I've always been a fan of players like Caro, Jen and Kim who can be aggressive if need be but more importantly can play awesome defense, getting alot of balls back and moving around the court with great speed. With Maria...her shots are awesome and penetrating when she is "on" but her lack of defensive skills were always a downer for me. Same story with Davenport. Just hard for me to be excited about watching someone who will almost always lose the point once they are on the run.

I seem to recall Maria winning plenty of points when she was on the run in the Rome semi-final.:p

Chrissie-fan
Sep 9th, 2011, 07:54 PM
Dear god :/
This is the first and last time I venture in that section of the board, they are a disgrace to Serena's name(at least the posts after the one you quoted).. :(
Indeed. That's why we should make a special effort never to sink that low. This board should be the nicest and most friendly (and active) players forum of them all. There's no way for us to control what goes on elsewhere (including General Morons), but this we can do. I'm sure that 'our girl' would want it that way.

Bonfire
Sep 9th, 2011, 08:34 PM
I seem to recall Maria winning plenty of points when she was on the run in the Rome semi-final.:p

true, but it wasn't so pretty to watch:p;)

Bonfire
Sep 9th, 2011, 08:37 PM
Indeed. That's why we should make a special effort never to sink that low. This board should be the nicest and most friendly (and active) players forum of them all. There's no way for us to control what goes on elsewhere (including General Morons), but this we can do. I'm sure that 'our girl' would want it that way.

It does feel nice to see that (with the exception of a couple Caro "fans") we really do seem to be maybe the most friendly and respectful group here:shrug:
I mean I certainly can't see any of us posting a gif of Drew Barrymore being stabbed to death by a masked murderer under the WWWCaro/Serena thread like I saw there yesterday:facepalm:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 9th, 2011, 09:15 PM
It does feel nice to see that (with the exception of a couple Caro "fans") we really do seem to be maybe the most friendly and respectful group here:shrug:
I mean I certainly can't see any of us posting a gif of Drew Barrymore being stabbed to death by a masked murderer under the WWWCaro/Serena thread like I saw there yesterday:facepalm:

Me neither (thank God). Maybe I'm a bit naive or something, but I feel that as fans we represent in our own very small way Caroline, and if we would do stuff like that it would in the eyes of others reflect badly on her. I even notice that on General Morons. Fans of one player dislike another player because of the behavior of their fans. It's like - when you read those disgusting comments from Serena fans on the previous page it's tempting to start having negative feelings about Serena herself. But she has of course nothing to do with how some of her so-called fans behave. In fact I'm sure that she would be embarrassed about it if she saw that stuff. I would never want Caroline to be embarrassed for how we behave, even though I'm sure that it's extremely unlikely that she ever visits TF (I sincerely hope she doesn't in fact :sad:).

Bonfire
Sep 9th, 2011, 09:26 PM
Me neither (thank God). Maybe I'm a bit naive or something, but I feel that as fans we represent in our own very small way Caroline, and if we would do stuff like that it would in the eyes of others reflect badly on her. I even notice that on General Morons. Fans of one player dislike another player because of the behavior of their fans. It's like - when you read those disgusting comments from Serena fans on the previous page it's tempting to start having negative feelings about Serena herself. But she has of course nothing to do with how some of her so-called fans behave. In fact I'm sure that she would be embarrassed about it if she saw that stuff. I would never want Caroline to be embarrassed for how we behave, even though I'm sure that it's extremely unlikely that she ever visits TF (I sincerely hope she doesn't in fact :sad:).

yeah, great points. I've always felt the same. I like to think of my posts as somewhat representative of Caroline herself, even if that is a bit naive of me. Of course, over the years I have probably had some slightly dubious moments myself (mostly out of frustration from the "trolls") but nothing like what I've seen from these guys with Caroline. It's quite pathetic.
With Caroline though, it seems to be a very unique situation where I can almost feel that the trolls are being extremely classless with Caro because Caro's fans generally DO present themselves in a respectable way. It feels sometimes like they are just trying to break us down:lol:

postalblowfish
Sep 9th, 2011, 10:16 PM
The trolls here are amateurs compared to some of the ones on another website I used to visit. I'd love to give you some examples but they have a different forum layout and it doesn't work properly unless you're logged in.

TennisFan66
Sep 9th, 2011, 11:19 PM
In GM, there is a gif with some mad black woman apparently pulling at some wigs and I've seen comments about 'snatching wigs'. I get that its a metaphor for winning, but the wording itself, is that some black comedy thing or where does it originate?

terjw
Sep 9th, 2011, 11:21 PM
Me neither (thank God). Maybe I'm a bit naive or something, but I feel that as fans we represent in our own very small way Caroline, and if we would do stuff like that it would in the eyes of others reflect badly on her. I even notice that on General Morons. Fans of one player dislike another player because of the behavior of their fans. It's like - when you read those disgusting comments from Serena fans on the previous page it's tempting to start having negative feelings about Serena herself. But she has of course nothing to do with how some of her so-called fans behave. In fact I'm sure that she would be embarrassed about it if she saw that stuff. I would never want Caroline to be embarrassed for how we behave, even though I'm sure that it's extremely unlikely that she ever visits TF (I sincerely hope she doesn't in fact :sad:).

That is just so how I feel. Every point you make I so agree with.

EnerBC
Sep 9th, 2011, 11:50 PM
Just a hint for people with access to ESP Player..they are streaming Arthur Ashe and Grandstand eg. Mixed Finals and Womens doubles SF now :)

DownInAHole
Sep 9th, 2011, 11:53 PM
It does feel nice to see that (with the exception of a couple Caro "fans") we really do seem to be maybe the most friendly and respectful group here:shrug:
I mean I certainly can't see any of us posting a gif of Drew Barrymore being stabbed to death by a masked murderer under the WWWCaro/Serena thread like I saw there yesterday:facepalm:

I do not spend a ton of time in other players forums but on the rare occasions when I do pop in they generally seem very nice and welcoming. I would guess that most of the more...vociferous...posters tend to post in GM and the "nicer" posters stick mostly to the players forums.

terjw
Sep 9th, 2011, 11:57 PM
I do not spend a ton of time in other players forums but on the rare occasions when I do pop in they generally seem very nice and welcoming. I would guess that most of the more...vociferous...posters tend to post in GM and the "nicer" posters stick mostly to the players forums.

Players Forums are not all nice and welcoming.

Bonfire
Sep 10th, 2011, 12:52 AM
I do not spend a ton of time in other players forums but on the rare occasions when I do pop in they generally seem very nice and welcoming. I would guess that most of the more...vociferous...posters tend to post in GM and the "nicer" posters stick mostly to the players forums.

That thought did cross my mind after I posted this to be honest...I guess part of me is quite blinded by the vibe of GM. And to be fair, I've never actually ventured into other player forums so I am not at liberty to judge them:shrug:
So to be exact, I will say that Caroline's fans (for the most part) seem to be the most sane in General Messages;) or that has been my experience going through, for instance, that heartwarming thread of over 1,000 posts celebrating Caro's RG loss...er...I mean celebrating Daniela's victory...right:lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 10th, 2011, 12:59 AM
Players Forums are not all nice and welcoming.
No, not all of them are - definitely not.

DownInAHole
Sep 10th, 2011, 01:13 AM
What do you guys think of the fact that, in the U.S. at least, the Stosur/Kerber semi-final will not be televised? Doesn't that seem kind of crazy?

Burisleif
Sep 10th, 2011, 01:20 AM
What do you guys think of the fact that, in the U.S. at least, the Stosur/Kerber semi-final will not be televised? Doesn't that seem kind of crazy?

I think it's disrespectful in extreme (not that i'd ever willing watch sam play). From a Global media perspective it further highlights the serious issues in the USA with regard to media controlling sport. We have a similar issue with Mediacorp and Football in Europe. The few franchise themselves into a safe position at the expense of open and fair sport.

Wta needs to grow some balls imho.

Brad[le]y.
Sep 10th, 2011, 03:52 AM
Chrissie-fan is bonding with an Anci-tard on GM :rolls:

Bonfire
Sep 10th, 2011, 04:32 AM
Delicate Cutter is such a tool!

Brad[le]y.
Sep 10th, 2011, 04:35 AM
I like how he makes fun of Caro for being a pusher with Radwanksa in his signature. If Caro is a pusher, Aga sure as hell is. :lol:

Bonfire
Sep 10th, 2011, 04:39 AM
I like how he makes fun of Caro for being a pusher with Radwanksa in his signature. If Caro is a pusher, Aga sure as hell is. :lol:


If I'm not mistaken...he's also the guy that made some "down syndrome" joke about Caroline sometime around the AO.
I'm over it!:lol:

Brad[le]y.
Sep 10th, 2011, 04:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken...he's also the guy that made some "down syndrome" joke about Caroline sometime around the AO.
I'm over it!:lol:his favorite player lost in the 1R there.:oh:

and he calls our girl sucky :lol:

Bonfire
Sep 10th, 2011, 04:59 AM
his favorite player lost in the 1R there.:oh:

and he calls our girl sucky :lol:

but of course! funny how often that goes hand and hand with posters like that:rolleyes:

Burisleif
Sep 10th, 2011, 05:21 AM
If I'm not mistaken...he's also the guy that made some "down syndrome" joke about Caroline sometime around the AO.
I'm over it!:lol:

Rings a bell along with the "stop the pusher" sig... Class A wally is Wally.

Bonfire
Sep 10th, 2011, 05:26 AM
Rings a bell along with the "stop the pusher" sig... Class A wally is Wally.

Yup, that's the one! Come to think of it...I think he might be more obsessed with Caroline than I am :lol:

Burisleif
Sep 10th, 2011, 05:30 AM
Yup, that's the one! Come to think of it...I think he might be more obsessed with Caroline than I am :lol:

He and Aron both... Bless them :devil: They both desperately want to 'come out' and admit their deep rooted Caro love but can't quite do it... ;) :lol:

Bonfire
Sep 10th, 2011, 05:45 AM
He and Aron both... Bless them :devil: They both desperately want to 'come out' and admit their deep rooted Caro love but can't quite do it... ;) :lol:

yes, if they could just take that first step...life would be much more pleasant for them;)

terjw
Sep 10th, 2011, 08:56 AM
So looking at the title of the thread - what do you guys think of women's tennis right now.

There's a general feeling that the game sucks and the young players are called generation suck and we are in a weak era and that 10 years ago it was a golden era with all these great player. And that today it is boring as hell and dreadfull. What I can't understand is with all this moaning and whining. Why do they watch it if it's such an awful thing. No-one forces you to watch.

I must confess though that I watch because of the player I follow and not the purist love of tennis for it's own sake. Some might say I'm not a true tennis fan if that's my reason. But tennis-wise I didn't follow it much 10 years ago and lost a lot of interest when Hingis started getting beaten.

But I think today's players do have it tough with the depth of play in the game and the physical aspect all the time. There's so many players now that are inconsistent - hence their low ranking. But on their day - and this is in early rounds - are really dangerous and can beat top players. And it just gets tougher and tougher as the years go by. Back in the days of Chrissie and Nav. They were fantastic. But they never got what today's players have to face in every single match. And even 10 years ago - I don't think there were so many dangerous players ranked so low.

Also I think the "golden age" is hugely overated. The grass always grows greener somewhere else. There's this list of great players and highlights of matches from the past which are the best matches - never the truly dreadful ones. But these players weren't all great at the same time. They had injuries. They went off the boil.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 10th, 2011, 10:00 AM
Chrissie-fan is bonding with an Anci-tard on GM :rolls:

:) I'm a bit out of 'immediately recognizing trolls' practice because I haven't been often enough at GM lately. I don't know (or remember) half the people there (good thing probably). But I must admit that visiting the asylum again has been entertaining in it's own way. ;)

DownInAHole
Sep 10th, 2011, 11:09 AM
So looking at the title of the thread - what do you guys think of women's tennis right now.

There's a general feeling that the game sucks and the young players are called generation suck and we are in a weak era and that 10 years ago it was a golden era with all these great player. And that today it is boring as hell and dreadfull. What I can't understand is with all this moaning and whining. Why do they watch it if it's such an awful thing. No-one forces you to watch.

I must confess though that I watch because of the player I follow and not the purist love of tennis for it's own sake. Some might say I'm not a true tennis fan if that's my reason. But tennis-wise I didn't follow it much 10 years ago and lost a lot of interest when Hingis started getting beaten.

But I think today's players do have it tough with the depth of play in the game and the physical aspect all the time. There's so many players now that are inconsistent - hence their low ranking. But on their day - and this is in early rounds - are really dangerous and can beat top players. And it just gets tougher and tougher as the years go by. Back in the days of Chrissie and Nav. They were fantastic. But they never got what today's players have to face in every single match. And even 10 years ago - I don't think there were so many dangerous players ranked so low.

Also I think the "golden age" is hugely overated. The grass always grows greener somewhere else. There's this list of great players and highlights of matches from the past which are the best matches - never the truly dreadful ones. But these players weren't all great at the same time. They had injuries. They went off the boil.

I think there is some logic to the argument that roughly ten years ago it was a golden age. The main difference between then and now are the rivalries. Typically the top players (meaning the top ten) were regularly making the quarters/semis/finals and that just does not happen today. Of course there were still upsets back then but for the most part you could rely on the "better" players to go deep into most of the big tournaments ("big" meaning slams and tier ones). Today there is very little reliability with the top players. Because of that the top players play each other less often now than they did then. I think that for most people it is more exciting to have a core of 5-10 players that meet regularly and develop rivalries rather than having things be much more random and unpredictable.

For me the ATP is too rigid and predictable and it can be a bit stale and boring to see the same four guys winning everything so things can go too far in the other direction but I would love to see the top players bring more consistency. When Serena was winning everything in 2002-2003 it was kind of boring and I was getting tired of seeing her and Venus in every final but I do think that today's WTA is a bit too unpredictable.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 10th, 2011, 11:26 AM
So looking at the title of the thread - what do you guys think of women's tennis right now.

There's a general feeling that the game sucks and the young players are called generation suck and we are in a weak era and that 10 years ago it was a golden era with all these great player. And that today it is boring as hell and dreadfull. What I can't understand is with all this moaning and whining. Why do they watch it if it's such an awful thing. No-one forces you to watch.

I must confess though that I watch because of the player I follow and not the purist love of tennis for it's own sake. Some might say I'm not a true tennis fan if that's my reason. But tennis-wise I didn't follow it much 10 years ago and lost a lot of interest when Hingis started getting beaten.

But I think today's players do have it tough with the depth of play in the game and the physical aspect all the time. There's so many players now that are inconsistent - hence their low ranking. But on their day - and this is in early rounds - are really dangerous and can beat top players. And it just gets tougher and tougher as the years go by. Back in the days of Chrissie and Nav. They were fantastic. But they never got what today's players have to face in every single match. And even 10 years ago - I don't think there were so many dangerous players ranked so low.

Also I think the "golden age" is hugely overated. The grass always grows greener somewhere else. There's this list of great players and highlights of matches from the past which are the best matches - never the truly dreadful ones. But these players weren't all great at the same time. They had injuries. They went off the boil.
Sure, but the early 2000's were nevertheless indeed a golden age in my opinion. Hingis, Serena, Venus, Capriati, Davenport, Mauresmo, Clijsters, Pierce, Seles, Henin - that's as impressive a line-up of talent as there's ever been. Even John McEnroe said at the time that the WTA was better than the ATP.

But yes, I'm not 100% sure, but it's possible that the lower ranked players are now better than they were then. The top seeds are in danger in each round they play these days. Every match is one that can be lost. It's of course hard to say if that's because the top players are not as good as they used to be or because the rest is better. It's probably a bit of both. Problem is that among the top players only Caroline and Zvonareva are consistent, but their 'average' is better than everyone else's while their peak hasn't been great enough to win slams. And the other top players are part-time greats at best. A girl like Li Na was magnificent at the FO and would in my opinion have given any of those 'golden age' greats except for Henin problems. But since her moment of glory she can hardly hit a ball between the lines anymore. Same thing to a lesser degree for Kvitova following Wimbledon. And all of the injuries by top players left, right and centre in recent years doesn't help any either.

Even so, I find it all highly entertaining. The 'anything can happen' factor is very exciting. Of course, with the Serena comeback all that goes pretty much out of the window.

Burisleif
Sep 10th, 2011, 01:52 PM
Any sport that has a sudden golden age in the years between 1995 and 2005 rings bells for me...

Brad[le]y.
Sep 11th, 2011, 12:39 AM
:) I'm a bit out of 'immediately recognizing trolls' practice because I haven't been often enough at GM lately. I don't know (or remember) half the people there (good thing probably). But I must admit that visiting the asylum again has been entertaining in it's own way. ;)at least you know the orgins of mine and bruce's Anci bashing :p

Bonfire
Sep 11th, 2011, 08:05 AM
GM was not so bad this time. The redundancy of the Caro bashing has become quite amusing to me at this point. I can't believe how personally offended I used to get by it.
Glad I went there, kept it classy, said what I wanted to say and got a good laugh from all the posters racking their brains to figure out how many different ways they can mock "the pusher" to make themselves feel better.
At the end of the day, the "haters" have to live with themselves and their nasty attitudes every moment of every day. I only have to deal with it on GM when I choose to:lol:
See you soon Caroline:)

Chrissie-fan
Sep 11th, 2011, 04:35 PM
GM was not so bad this time. The redundancy of the Caro bashing has become quite amusing to me at this point. I can't believe how personally offended I used to get by it.
Glad I went there, kept it classy, said what I wanted to say and got a good laugh from all the posters racking their brains to figure out how many different ways they can mock "the pusher" to make themselves feel better.
At the end of the day, the "haters" have to live with themselves and their nasty attitudes every moment of every day. I only have to deal with it on GM when I choose to:lol:
See you soon Caroline:)
I stole that line from you to use it at GM. :lol:

marineblue
Sep 11th, 2011, 05:05 PM
Generally Mental was at its upteenth level today. But yes, they will have to live with this scary condition. I think it will get worse in the future because I have a feeling that Caro will win a title or two until the rest of the season. :devil:

Bonfire
Sep 11th, 2011, 05:32 PM
I stole that line from you to use it at GM. :lol:

:lol:good, it's probably something they need to hear! I was inspired by your post the other day about keeping one's self respect by not "bashing" other players even when you have an open goal:yeah:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 11th, 2011, 11:04 PM
I can't believe what I've just seen. :eek:

TennisFan66
Sep 11th, 2011, 11:31 PM
Cannot say I watched the final, but just seen the result. I suppose I'm fairly happy. 1) Sam's win scratched my betting for USO 2) The 'Just hand Serena the Trophy' brigade was humbled and the 3) Embarrassing for WTA that Serena Williams can just come back and win slams brigade, was humbled too!!

That being said, I am not totally surprised about Sam's victory. Granted, Sam had longer to recover, but I've always been of the opinion, Serena's fitness level isnt to play back-to-back. Her muscles are short fibers (pooooooower) as you see in a 100 meter sprinter. No stamina.

I think WTA POTY is still up for grabs. The winner of YEC could, if she was also YE#1 :angel: , clinch it.

Hoergren
Sep 11th, 2011, 11:49 PM
I watched the final and Wow - we didn't see that coming did we? A fiery Stosur peeking at the right time and a Serena living in shadowland - a shadow of Serena from yesterday. Not much worked. Legs were heavy, serve so so and an opponent not letting her into the game. A bit like an Andersen fairy tale. A fully deserved win. A few things I disliked about Serena today, and don't get me wrong. She has to accept the overruling from the umpire because she's not allowed to distract her opponent before the point was won - and she did. She's not supposed to talk ugly to the umpire - and she did. Normally you're saying thank you to the umpire after a match - and she didn't. That's not worthy from a player who claims she's the best player on tour - she's not. The WTA has to fine her for this and I think they'll do that. Well Serena i like your play but i don't like when you blow the fuse. You have to control that in the future. Congrats to Stosur for her win and for not letting down because of a very unpleasant audience - shame on them - at least in the beginning of second set.

Protoss
Sep 11th, 2011, 11:52 PM
Weird. Stosur now has 3 titles, 1 of them a grand slam. Of course, Schiavone has 4 titles, 1 of them a grand slam and Li has 5 titles, 1 of them a grand slam.

JadeFox
Sep 11th, 2011, 11:57 PM
This match showed a lot of things but the most important are:

1. Matches are played on court, not on paper.

2. The WTA is so unpredictable right now that even someone like Serena isn't immune from an unexpected upset.

Sam played extremely well. If Serena didn't play all that well it was because Sam didn't let her. And Lord knows she could've gone away after that point penalty in the second set when Serena broke her serve. But she didn't and stayed calm against a fired up Serena and a rowdy crowd.

So I'm gonna raise my glass to Stosur. She has every right to be proud of her performance tonight.

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 12:44 AM
Just got home from work about an hour or so ago expecting a Serena victory and WOW...congrats to Sam. They showed alot of clips from the match including all the drama with Serena. I think Serena is one of the greatest players in the history of the sport. Hell, I even shed a tear when she got emotional after winning her first match at Wimbledon this year but damn...I understand losing one's temper/emotions when dealt with unexpected situations but this was pretty bad. Really happy that Stosur pulled through though. She's been one of my favorites for awhile now. I'm a sucker for "nice" girls I suppose:lol:
Anyway, just wanted to share my feelings after what I saw today:shrug:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 12th, 2011, 12:53 AM
Sad thing is that most of the talk will be about the incident and not about Sam's Federer-like (without the choking :lol:) performance.

Protoss
Sep 12th, 2011, 12:59 AM
I'm trying to think of the last time a Wta slam final was so shocking in terms of the result.

Interestingly enough, Serena was on her longest winning streak since 2002-2003 and her longest amount of matches played without dropping a set since that same time period.

Brad[le]y.
Sep 12th, 2011, 01:07 AM
Go on GM and count how many consecutive threads you see with the word 'Serena' in the title :p

Protoss
Sep 12th, 2011, 01:11 AM
What would have happened if Sharapova or Kvitova hadn't lost early?

I think either would have beaten Stosur in the semis. Would they have won the final though particularly Sharapova with the mental baggage she has with Serena though.

C. W. Fields
Sep 12th, 2011, 01:44 AM
Weird. Stosur now has 3 titles, 1 of them a grand slam. Of course, Schiavone has 4 titles, 1 of them a grand slam and Li has 5 titles, 1 of them a grand slam.

And Kvitova has 5 titles, 1 of them a grand slam.
It's interesting, this year we've had 4 different slam winners and they're all the same type, powerful but inconsistent. Clijsters, Li and Kvitova haven't managed to win a tournament since winning their slam while Sam has won no tournaments in the year leading up to USO! With Kim injury is of course part of the explanation but it's still a pattern.
This inconsistent pattern is also reflected in the rankings. After USO the four slam winner will be ranked #5, 6, 7 and 9. In the YEC race the two leaders and only players to qualify so far - Caro and Sharapova - are non-slam winners.
Whether this inconsistency with so many different champions is a good thing for the sport is questionable but as far as Caro retaining her #1 ranking it's a good thing. If one player won 2-3 slam titles she'd be a much bigger threat.

Congrats to Sam. I didn't watch too much of her tennis during this tournament. She dropped 3 sets on her way to the final and it's my inpression her game wasn't always too pretty but she seems to have toughened up mentally. It used to be she got tight in close and important matches but not this time.
Her winning the final was a real surprise considering how much more convincing Serena's wins have been and how soundly she beat Sam just a month ago in Toronto (and Serena usually plays even better at slams). Maybe being the underdog - unlike FO 10 - helped Sam keep her nerves under control.
And I wonder how Sharapova feels right now? She completely owns Sam (9-0 H2H) and they were in the same half of the draw here so if only she had lived up to her seeding... But if Sam could turn a recent Serena loss into a win maybe she could have done the same against Sharapova!?

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 01:56 AM
Sad thing is that most of the talk will be about the incident and not about Sam's Federer-like (without the choking :lol:) performance.

True, aside from Caro...Stosur and Clijsters are my other two current faves and have been for awhile. This feels like the second time I've witnessed Serena stealing the thunder away from what otherwise were amazing performances from Kim and Sam. Certainly can't say Serena doesn't make it "interesting" though:lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 12th, 2011, 01:57 AM
I've been to the Serena players forum and they have been very kind to me. I even got several good reps. I hadn't expected that considering some of the pre-match comments there before the Caro match. :)

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:00 AM
Go on GM and count how many consecutive threads you see with the word 'Serena' in the title :p

I know! I've never seen anything quite like it over there actually. Finally a day where there is almost no GM talk about Wozniacki:lol:

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:02 AM
I've been to the Serena players forum and they have been very kind to me. I even got several good reps. I hadn't expected that considering some of the pre-match comments there before the Caro match. :)

Well your a classy poster and not a Serena basher and I'm sure they respect that:)

Chrissie-fan
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:02 AM
True, aside from Caro...Stosur and Clijsters are my other two current faves and have been for awhile. This feels like the second time I've witnessed Serena stealing the thunder away from what otherwise were amazing performances from Kim and Sam. Certainly can't say Serena doesn't make it "interesting" though:lol:
:lol: True, she always puts on a good show. Gotta love her.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:05 AM
Well your a classy poster and not a Serena basher and I'm sure they respect that:)
They commented that you are a classy Caro fan as well, actually.;)

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:07 AM
What would have happened if Sharapova or Kvitova hadn't lost early?

I think either would have beaten Stosur in the semis. Would they have won the final though particularly Sharapova with the mental baggage she has with Serena though.

I don't think Sharapova will ever beat Serena again honestly. Not sure about Kvitova's prospects against her quite yet.

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:11 AM
They commented that you are a classy Caro fan as well, actually.;)

That's cool;) The poster "Oliviasmith" actually good repped me not too long ago and showed me a thread there where he specifically named out you and myself as classy Caro fans;)
It's a tough road when combatting the likes of "Mega DC" "Dane" and the infamous "Tea" but we do our best I suppose:lol:

Brad[le]y.
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:16 AM
The result thread :hysteric:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:17 AM
That's cool;) The poster "Oliviasmith" actually good repped me not too long ago and showed me a thread there where he specifically named out you and myself as classy Caro fans;)
It's a tough road when combatting the likes of "Mega DC" "Dane" and the infamous "Tea" but we do our best I suppose:lol:
Yeah, those characters harm the reputation of our fanbase I guess. But every name player has 'fans' like that. I wonder when the first "she's going to win 10 slams plus" Stosur trolls will turn up. :lol:

DownInAHole
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:19 AM
I don't think Sharapova will ever beat Serena again honestly. Not sure about Kvitova's prospects against her quite yet.

Eh, I think it depends on a few factors. Will Sharapova ever solve her problems with her serve? How much longer will Serena play and will she retire before her game starts to decline? Will Maria ever be fortunate enough to be "on" at the same time that Serena is "off?"

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:21 AM
Yeah, those characters harm the reputation of our fanbase I guess. But every name player has 'fans' like that. I wonder when the first "she's going to win 10 slams plus" Stosur trolls will turn up. :lol:

Soon enough I'm sure:lol: and Sam's fans better have fun celebrating now because the Sam bashing (from winning this slam) will surely start to take effect as soon as the Serena talk starts to die down. So messed up how this formula works. Do bad - get bashed. Do well - get bashed:lol:

Brad[le]y.
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:21 AM
Yeah, those characters harm the reputation of our fanbase I guess. But every name player has 'fans' like that. I wonder when the first "she's going to win 10 slams plus" Stosur trolls will turn up. :lol:

well on MTF Mega DC is a Murray troll :rolls:
he accuses Djokovic of being lucky this year and says Murray will win the calander slam in 2013

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:24 AM
Eh, I think it depends on a few factors. Will Sharapova ever solve her problems with her serve? How much longer will Serena play and will she retire before her game starts to decline? Will Maria ever be fortunate enough to be "on" at the same time that Serena is "off?"

Even though Maria is not one of my favorite players...it would be nice to see her win a match against her again at some point. And as we have witnessed today...tennis is unpredictable so yeah, a few factors could come into play in Maria's favor.

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:27 AM
well on MTF Mega DC is a Murray troll :rolls:
he accuses Djokovic of being lucky this year and says Murray will win the calander slam in 2013

:facepalm:

Protoss
Sep 12th, 2011, 08:21 AM
So did the slower US Open courts help out Stosur this year? She's often struggled with fast courts as she has less time to run around her backhand and less time to setup her forehand.

This was the 1st year since 2004 to have multiple first time slam champions.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 12th, 2011, 01:01 PM
Even so, I find it all highly entertaining. The 'anything can happen' factor is very exciting. Of course, with the Serena comeback all that goes pretty much out of the window.
Boy, was I wrong about that one. :lol:

CWTennis
Sep 12th, 2011, 01:02 PM
Really happy for Sam, well deserved! I actually had a feeling that Stosur will win this! Serena- no comments! Once again very poor behavior from her! :help:

Crockett
Sep 12th, 2011, 02:29 PM
With Sam as a declared favorite in my signature, I thoroughly enjoyed yesterday's final. I tried to share this sentiment with you then, but the forum was in database error mode. No problem, though -- I am still happy for her.

NedRise
Sep 12th, 2011, 03:54 PM
Serena has always been so egocentric, so it doesn't surprise me that she felt it was personal when Eva ruled a loss of point. If Serena really felt the ruling was wrong, she should have asked for clarification from the referee, not berate Eva during the changeovers.

On the other hand, Serena did give credit to Stosur for playing really, really well in her post-match press conference. So often with Serena the only reason that she can see why she lost is because she played poorly, not because somebody else played well. I think this goes along with her belief that it doesn't matter if her opponent plays her best, because nobody's best is as good as her normal. Yesterday, she was giving a lot of credit to Stosur, which was nice to see.

Does anybody know what Serena's plans are for the rest of the year -- does she go to Asia? If not, she won't make YEC, so we may not see her again until Australia. Has she said she's just interested in the majors henceforth?

TennisFan66
Sep 12th, 2011, 05:09 PM
Does anybody know what Serena's plans are for the rest of the year -- does she go to Asia? If not, she won't make YEC, so we may not see her again until Australia. Has she said she's just interested in the majors henceforth?

Serena Williams is #11 in the Race, 1,100 points behind #8 Marion Bartoli

Tokyo and Beijing to qualify for the YEC. Suppose its possible, but I wouldnt bet on - personally.

On another note, I've seen the outburst(s) now. :eek: Now its marginally perhaps less intimidating and serious than 2009, but speaking against this view is, it wasn't just one outburst. It was repeated outbursts, which maybe even makes it worse?

Let's see what they say, but imho this calls for a fine + ban. I'm sorry, but such behaviour cannot be accepted.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 12th, 2011, 05:13 PM
Really happy for Sam, well deserved! I actually had a feeling that Stosur will win this! Serena- no comments! Once again very poor behavior from her! :help:
Maybe, but in my opinion GM posters are (surprise!) over-reacting to this thing. But they love to kick somebody when the're down, we all know that.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 12th, 2011, 05:20 PM
Let's see what they say, but imho this calls for a fine + ban.
Not in my opinion. A fine - maybe. A ban - definitely not. I've seen incidents far worse than this from ATP players.

DownInAHole
Sep 12th, 2011, 06:10 PM
Does anybody know what Serena's plans are for the rest of the year -- does she go to Asia? If not, she won't make YEC, so we may not see her again until Australia. Has she said she's just interested in the majors henceforth?

She is listed as entered to play on both the Tokyo and Beijing sites. It seems unlikely but she may want to play Moscow also to try to get her ranking up as high as possible for the Australian Open.

Bonfire
Sep 12th, 2011, 09:26 PM
Not in my opinion. A fine - maybe. A ban - definitely not. I've seen incidents far worse than this from ATP players.

And a "fine" it was. Yeah, I thought a ban would be too much considering that I've never heard of Roddick or McEnroe getting banned form tournaments.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 13th, 2011, 10:06 AM
I very much agree with this article....

http://deadspin.com/5839361/celebrating-serena-williams-tennis-traditionalist

TennisFan66
Sep 13th, 2011, 11:24 AM
Not in my opinion. A fine - maybe. A ban - definitely not. I've seen incidents far worse than this from ATP players.

You were right, Chrissie. $2,000 fine :lol: That's barely a slap on the wrist.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 13th, 2011, 12:06 PM
You were right, Chrissie. $2,000 fine :lol: That's barely a slap on the wrist.
Considering the fun that GM posters are having over this 'incident' they probably should have given her a bonus instead of a fine for providing them with such excellent entertainment. :lol:

postalblowfish
Sep 13th, 2011, 07:18 PM
Is it just me or have a number of Serena fans started to defend Caro in GM, esp. in relation to Sharapova?

Chrissie-fan
Sep 13th, 2011, 09:14 PM
Is it just me or have a number of Serena fans started to defend Caro in GM, esp. in relation to Sharapova?
Not sure. I haven't visited those particular threads. But I've been on Serena's player forum to show some support and most of them seem ok. Several (more than several in fact) have good repped me with some nice comment about Caro added for good measure. Like any fanbase they inevitably have some trollish figures, but most of them are fine, really.

postalblowfish
Sep 14th, 2011, 05:26 PM
That's not the first utterly idiotic post that particular user's made.

And indeed, further to that: http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=20238945&postcount=2232

Protoss
Sep 15th, 2011, 01:57 PM
And Kvitova has 5 titles, 1 of them a grand slam.
It's interesting, this year we've had 4 different slam winners and they're all the same type, powerful but inconsistent. Clijsters, Li and Kvitova haven't managed to win a tournament since winning their slam while Sam has won no tournaments in the year leading up to USO! With Kim injury is of course part of the explanation but it's still a pattern.
This inconsistent pattern is also reflected in the rankings. After USO the four slam winner will be ranked #5, 6, 7 and 9. In the YEC race the two leaders and only players to qualify so far - Caro and Sharapova - are non-slam winners.
Whether this inconsistency with so many different champions is a good thing for the sport is questionable but as far as Caro retaining her #1 ranking it's a good thing. If one player won 2-3 slam titles she'd be a much bigger threat.

Congrats to Sam. I didn't watch too much of her tennis during this tournament. She dropped 3 sets on her way to the final and it's my inpression her game wasn't always too pretty but she seems to have toughened up mentally. It used to be she got tight in close and important matches but not this time.
Her winning the final was a real surprise considering how much more convincing Serena's wins have been and how soundly she beat Sam just a month ago in Toronto (and Serena usually plays even better at slams). Maybe being the underdog - unlike FO 10 - helped Sam keep her nerves under control.
And I wonder how Sharapova feels right now? She completely owns Sam (9-0 H2H) and they were in the same half of the draw here so if only she had lived up to her seeding... But if Sam could turn a recent Serena loss into a win maybe she could have done the same against Sharapova!?
I didn't list Kvitova cuz she's a lot younger than the other slam winners this year. So I figure she has a lot of time to acquire titles.

It's not fair to lump Kim in with the other slam winners this year. I find it hard to imagine that she'd wouldn't have won titles after winning the Australian Open if she'd been able to stay healthy and not miss long periods of time. She had the 2nd titles on tour last year (5) and the 2nd best winning % (85%, which is better than what Caro had last year or so far this year).

Sharapova is a lot worse matchup for Stosur though. Stosur had beaten Serena twice before the US Open final and had match points in another match. She's only won two sets in 9 matches against Sharapova. :shrug:

terjw
Sep 15th, 2011, 08:44 PM
And Kvitova has 5 titles, 1 of them a grand slam.
It's interesting, this year we've had 4 different slam winners and they're all the same type, powerful but inconsistent. Clijsters, Li and Kvitova haven't managed to win a tournament since winning their slam while Sam has won no tournaments in the year leading up to USO! With Kim injury is of course part of the explanation but it's still a pattern.
This inconsistent pattern is also reflected in the rankings. After USO the four slam winner will be ranked #5, 6, 7 and 9. In the YEC race the two leaders and only players to qualify so far - Caro and Sharapova - are non-slam winners.
Whether this inconsistency with so many different champions is a good thing for the sport is questionable but as far as Caro retaining her #1 ranking it's a good thing. If one player won 2-3 slam titles she'd be a much bigger threat.



Two things. First as Protoss said on Kim. Injuries are the reason Kim hasn't won since AO. She's hardly played since. And when she has - she's got an injury most tournments. As far as her history when she's not injured - she always has won plenty of tournments. She did last year. So I don't think she should be put in the same category at all.

The question as to whether what we have now "is good for the sport". I'm fast coming to the conclusion doesn't have any meaning at all and is said to make an argument sound good. One person says it because they have an idea that they want to see the slam winners #1 or their fav isn't #1. And everyone just copies and says the same because it sounds it adds weight to their opinion who they want to be at #1. But honestly:

Most people couldn't care less about women's tennis - not now and in the past and that's not changing. So only a small number have ever followed the game.
.
The papers here have never had much coverage of the women's game - even in so called golden ages.
.
The game is in no danger of dying or shrinking. Players have never had so much money. There's no worry about struggling to get enough tournaments for the following year. Contrast that with other women's sports.
.
Queues to get into Wimbledon are longer and you need to get there earlier than in the past.
.
Even say at Eastbourne - it's best and safest to buy tickets in advance for the last days.I don't see any logical reason why the slam winners and the players who played best at those single tournament has to always be the best player over a whole year just because in the past that has usually been the case. And we aren't going to lose the group of followers who moan about it to the game. They will stick around for ever to moan how bad it all is.

Bonfire
Sep 16th, 2011, 06:45 AM
I don't see any logical reason why the slam winners and the players who played best at those single tournament has to always be the best player over a whole year just because in the past that has usually been the case. And we aren't going to lose the group of followers who moan about it to the game. They will stick around for ever to moan how bad it all is.

Exactly! Things change.
Players that retained the #1 spot in the past won a slam(s) and were ALSO more consistent throughout the entire season. Now we have more players who are pretty much just shining for two weeks a year while Caroline is the most consistent when considering the entire season as a whole. The "moaners" will not change but they should realize that everything is different now and that doesn't have to be looked down upon. Now of course Kim is a different case (injuries) but if just one of these slam winners from this year could win a few other big titles on top of their slam win then they would be a deserving threat to the throne. Until then, it's Caroline's for a good reason:)

Chrissie-fan
Sep 16th, 2011, 12:48 PM
The obsession of many posters with slams is a very worrying thing for tennis as a whole I think. For example: "Stosur has won a slam" - and with that one argument the case is closed as far as most people is concerned in that Sam vs Caro poll. Just one example of a countless number that demonstrates the contempt of many tennis fans for anything other than slams. It really has nothing to do with Woz - that contempt shines through in threads that have nothing to do with her just as much.

DownInAHole
Sep 16th, 2011, 05:26 PM
The obsession of many posters with slams is a very worrying thing for tennis as a whole I think. For example: "Stosur has won a slam" - and with that one argument the case is closed as far as most people is concerned in that Sam vs Caro poll. Just one example of a countless number that demonstrates the contempt of many tennis fans for anything other than slams. It really has nothing to do with Woz - that contempt shines through in threads that have nothing to do with her just as much.

As far as any poll regarding Caroline vs. whoever I have always maintained that it is silly to compare a 21 year old Caroline with a 27 year old Stosur, a 29 year old Li or a 30 year old Schiavone. Seems to me that it would make sense to wait until her career is over before comparing Caroline with other players, especially players that are five plus years older than her.

In general, I agree with you but the slams are the most important events. Caroline can win New Haven ten times in a row but if she fails to win a slam no one but her hardcore fans are going to care. Every player wants to win a slam and the very best up their games and try to play their very best at the slams. As of this writing I think there is some validity in the complaint that Caroline is not putting as much emphasis on the slams as she should be. Few would disagree that her clay schedule was too heavy and that Copenhagen was not ideal preparation for Wimbledon. Getting a clay title in Brussels was nice but might that week have been better spent resting? After making a final in 2009 and a semi-final in 2010 it must have been a nice feeling to win in Charleston but does playing on that mutant surface do her game any good heading into the European clay season? I can only speak for myself but I think that Caroline has won enough of the smaller tournaments, I think it is time for her do do her best on the biggest stages. That does not mean that she must win a slam in 2012 but I would like to see her go deeper at Roland Garros and Wimbledon and to see more fight from her when/if she does lose.

For me I have seen her win enough small events with weak fields, I want to see her competing in the bigger events (and that doesn't just mean the slams) that feature most of the top twenty. I see her career as a ladder. The premier events, of which she has won plenty, are the bottom. The mandatories and premier 5's are the middle, she has done well at these over the last year. Then we have the slams which are the top of the ladder. Despite making two semi-finals over the last year her results at the slams, especially considering that pesky "1" next to her name, have been slightly disappointing. It appears to me that she is using the premiers to peak for the mandatories and premier 5's. I would like to see her use the mandatories and premier 5's as a way to peak at the slams and to not worry as much about winning the premier's. We will have to wait and see how she does in 2012 but it seems to me that she is somewhat stalled at the middle stage of the ladder and she needs to have a breakthrough where she can start making semi-finals and finals at the slams on a more regular basis. I am sure that many of you will disagree with me but the fact that she has not made a slam final over the last two years is a big disappointment to me.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 16th, 2011, 05:36 PM
My post really has nothing to do with Caro but with the general attitude of fans (at least those there are here) - I just used that poll as an example. I definitely agree that the slams are the most important events, but everything else is talked about with such contempt that I wonder why they even bother playing.

DownInAHole
Sep 16th, 2011, 05:59 PM
My post really has nothing to do with Caro but with the general attitude of fans (at least those there are here) - I just used that poll as an example. I definitely agree that the slams are the most important events, but everything else is talked about with such contempt that I wonder why they even bother playing.

Well, to some people it was huge that Caroline lost early in Toronto and Cincinnati but if she had won either or both events those same people almost certainly would have labelled them as mickey mouse tournaments so it really doesn't matter what they think they will always find a reason to denigrate Caroline.

For me I always look at the field. For example, at the US Open this year the draw collapsed in a fairly spectacular way and I would argue that some of the mandatories and premier 5 events had better quarters, semis and finals matches. If you have a non slam that has all or most of the top twenty playing in it an argument could be made that it is just as difficult to win as a slam because the players do not get a day off between matches. Which is a greater feat, winning a slam or winning Indian Wells and Miami or Madrid and Rome or Tokyo and Beijing back to back?

Bonfire
Sep 16th, 2011, 08:06 PM
My post really has nothing to do with Caro but with the general attitude of fans (at least those there are here) - I just used that poll as an example. I definitely agree that the slams are the most important events, but everything else is talked about with such contempt that I wonder why they even bother playing.

people do like to downgrade the non-slam events way too much, oh of course unless their favorite player wins one...then it's a great success. Unfortunately for them, Caroline takes most of those titles so maybe they have forgotten what that feeling is like:lol:;)

Well, to some people it was huge that Caroline lost early in Toronto and Cincinnati but if she had won either or both events those same people almost certainly would have labelled them as mickey mouse tournaments so it really doesn't matter what they think they will always find a reason to denigrate Caroline.

For me I always look at the field. For example, at the US Open this year the draw collapsed in a fairly spectacular way and I would argue that some of the mandatories and premier 5 events had better quarters, semis and finals matches. If you have a non slam that has all or most of the top twenty playing in it an argument could be made that it is just as difficult to win as a slam because the players do not get a day off between matches. Which is a greater feat, winning a slam or winning Indian Wells and Miami or Madrid and Rome or Tokyo and Beijing back to back?

Great post...can't think of anything to add really. It's unfortunate that more of the non-slam events couldn't be upped a couple notches in people's opinions. I mean...Dinara can be laughed at for winning Rome and Madrid but then Kuznetsova grabs Roland Garros and it's one for the history books:rolleyes: I mean I get why the slams are the most important but it would be nice if there weren't so many "wta fans" that see no issue in berating every non-slam tourney (give or take 2 or 3) as useless Mickey Mouse events. Do they not enjoy watching these players play more than four times a year? Is supporting the very full tour that we are lucky to have such a bad thing? Maybe this should be boxing...the two biggest names have a few big matches to see who takes the belt and is the undisputed champ until they arrange a rematch...yikes!:eek:

edit: okay I don't know much about boxing but my statement is kind of how I perceive it so just fyi..my apologies if that last line doesn't make sense;)

Chrissie-fan
Sep 16th, 2011, 08:23 PM
edit: okay I don't know much about boxing but my statement is kind of how I perceive it so just fyi..my apologies if that last line doesn't make sense;)
In boxing there are so many titles, including - and especially world titles that everyone who doesn't suck is bound to win one sooner or later. The belt titles (wba, wbc, wbo, ibf, etc...) are more often than not REAL Mickey Mouse titles, but the casual sports fan doesn't have a clue. The legitimate world champs in boxing are those that are according to Ring Magazine. Even though those 'titles' are fictional, at least the're not the result of politics or corruption and the're the only titles boxing fans really take seriously.

Bonfire
Sep 16th, 2011, 08:35 PM
In boxing there are so many titles, including - and especially world titles that everyone who doesn't suck is bound to win one sooner or later. The belt titles (wba, wbc, wbo, ibf, etc...) are more often than not REAL Mickey Mouse titles, but the casual sports fan doesn't have a clue. The legitimate world champs in boxing are those that are according to Ring Magazine. Even though those 'titles' are fictional, at least the're not the result of politics or corruption and the're the only titles boxing fans really take seriously.

thanks for the insight:) as a "very casual" fan of boxing...I've just tuned into those big "paperview belt" fights where my brother is like "oooh you gotta watch this one, this player in the undisputed champ but he might lose his belt tonight" type of fights. I have no clue about it really :facepalm: but I have to admit that the few fights I've watched...I've enjoyed it:lol:

edit: I just re-read my post and realized I used the word "player" to describe a boxer. I guess my head as a sports fan is deeply rooted into tennis;)

marineblue
Sep 16th, 2011, 08:35 PM
I think slams are the most important events in terms of the amount of points. However, they are also ´just´ tournaments and a small part of the tour. I have an impression that some people have an impression that winning a slam will automatically make one unbeatable and better than the rest.
People who think this way are probably casual tennis fans who do not watch matches outside of slams or just repeat the same old for the sake of it because they don´t want to see the reality which shows them that to be the best in the world doesn´t require to win a Grand Slam and it is not easy to get atop of the ranking even if a player won one.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 16th, 2011, 09:04 PM
thanks for the insight:) as a "very casual" fan of boxing...I've just tuned into those big "paperview belt" fights where my brother is like "oooh you gotta watch this one, this player in the undisputed champ but he might lose his belt tonight" type of fights. I have no clue about it really :facepalm: but I have to admit that the few fights I've watched...I've enjoyed it:lol:

Just to explain further: Most of the Ring Magazine champs also have a belt (or more than one). Problem is that several fighters have a belt (or belts) in the same weight divisions and can thus call themselves the champ. Ring Magazine decides who among them following common sense is 'the real' champ for each weight division (plus top tens of contenders). If it's in this or that weight division too close to call they declare the title vacant.

TennisFan66
Sep 16th, 2011, 09:29 PM
thanks for the insight:) as a "very casual" fan of boxing...I've just tuned into those big "paperview belt" fights where my brother is like "oooh you gotta watch this one, this player in the undisputed champ but he might lose his belt tonight" type of fights. I have no clue about it really :facepalm: but I have to admit that the few fights I've watched...I've enjoyed it:lol:

edit: I just re-read my post and realized I used the word "player" to describe a boxer. I guess my head as a sports fan is deeply rooted into tennis;)

I think you probably mean 'pay per view' ;)

DownInAHole
Sep 16th, 2011, 09:34 PM
I think slams are the most important events in terms of the amount of points. However, they are also ´just´ tournaments and a small part of the tour. I have an impression that some people have an impression that winning a slam will automatically make one unbeatable and better than the rest.
People who think this way are probably casual tennis fans who do not watch matches outside of slams or just repeat the same old for the sake of it because they don´t want to see the reality which shows them that to be the best in the world doesn´t require to win a Grand Slam and it is not easy to get atop of the ranking even if a player won one.

Here's the thing that I find baffling about GM, it is probably safe to assume that anyone posting on a forum dedicated to the WTA is a hardcore fan but many of them still act like the slams are the only events that matter. If you come here and post about the results of events like Sydney, Stuttgart, Eastbourne and Stanford it seems silly to denigrate them and all of the other non slam events. If the non slams are such a waste of time why do the people that hold that view even bother to pay attention to the other events?

goldenlox
Sep 16th, 2011, 09:40 PM
There is an overall negativity in GM that makes me think most of them arent tennis fans.
The majors are important, but if you are a tennis fan, its a small part of the whole season.
Last week, I kept reading Serena was the real #1. That all disappeared quickly, as if that one match with Stosur made her #1 or nowhere near #1.

Its a childish look for the most part of GM. I think that's part of message boards in general. People find it easy to be aggressively insulting, in an anonymous way

Bonfire
Sep 17th, 2011, 12:35 AM
I think you probably mean 'pay per view' ;)

:lol: yes that's what I meant
the elevators not quite reaching the top floor today...sorry:lol:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 17th, 2011, 02:40 AM
There is an overall negativity in GM that makes me think most of them arent tennis fans.

That's so true. They are so negative about it that they would be better off following another sport or finding a hobby that actually gives them some pleasure.

Bonfire
Sep 17th, 2011, 03:44 AM
Just to explain further: Most of the Ring Magazine champs also have a belt (or more than one). Problem is that several fighters have a belt (or belts) in the same weight divisions and can thus call themselves the champ. Ring Magazine decides who among them following common sense is 'the real' champ for each weight division (plus top tens of contenders). If it's in this or that weight division too close to call they declare the title vacant.

okay...it's starting to make more sense now! thanks;)

Bonfire
Sep 17th, 2011, 03:50 AM
That's so true. They are so negative about it that they would be better off following another sport or finding a hobby that actually gives them some pleasure.

but then they wouldn't be able to enlighten us with their genius logic on how Caroline doesn't know how to play tennis:lol:

btw, just out of curiosity...who is Natalie Schiller? The name is familiar but still not sure what her "story" is.

Crockett
Sep 17th, 2011, 07:46 AM
btw, just out of curiosity...who is Natalie Schiller?8
Natalie Schiller is a tennis player based in Christiansburg, Ohio. She is also a regular poster in Caroline's forum.

TennisFan66
Sep 17th, 2011, 08:14 AM
There is an overall negativity in GM that makes me think most of them arent tennis fans.
The majors are important, but if you are a tennis fan, its a small part of the whole season.
Last week, I kept reading Serena was the real #1. That all disappeared quickly, as if that one match with Stosur made her #1 or nowhere near #1.

Its a childish look for the most part of GM. I think that's part of message boards in general. People find it easy to be aggressively insulting, in an anonymous way

:lol: .. and agree. The discussions in GM could be anything. Tennis, football (soccer), dwarf throwing, WWF, who's the biggest quear .. 95% of posters just copy what some pundits say and/or they read what other posters say. So when Matt Cronin says something in a blog, they copy etc etc... and they hunt desperately for popularity. It all seems like junior high to me (which also is probably the age group for the majority).

I do like the player forums though.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 17th, 2011, 09:17 AM
who is Natalie Schiller? The name is familiar but still not sure what her "story" is.

SwissMiss19

terjw
Sep 17th, 2011, 12:07 PM
That's so true. They are so negative about it that they would be better off following another sport or finding a hobby that actually gives them some pleasure.

But they do get pleasure from tennis. Not watching it but whining and moaning and trashing players and making statements who will win and who is hopeless and should retire on GM. So much more fun than watching actual tennis which is desperate straights and is in dire need of being "saved". And they love predictions and woulda coulda to the extent I think they'd rather the players they say will win should just be presented with the trophy and they didn't have to go through with actually playing any matches and actually watching any tennis.

Like football pools when matches aren't played because of the weather and decided by the pools panel what the result would be. So much better . :lol::lol:

Second best to not playing any tennis would be that the tennis matches are played but the result is not who wins the match but decided by a panel of judges incuding of course themselves who weigh up how many winners, whether a player has a nice forehand and whether the player was more "talented" and awards marks based on that.

Bonfire
Sep 17th, 2011, 05:32 PM
Natalie Schiller is a tennis player based in Christiansburg, Ohio. She is also a regular poster in Caroline's forum.

SwissMiss19

Thanks:) I had read that SwissMiss19 was a tennis player but didn't know her real name. Cool!

Chrissie-fan
Sep 18th, 2011, 12:48 AM
There's some discussion about it at General Morons, but there's no reason why we can't do it here as well....

Who do you think will win the WTA player of the year awards?

Player of the Year: Hard to predict. Whoever of this year's slam winners OR Caroline wins the YEC will get the nod I feel.
Most Improved Player: Probably Kvitova
Newcomer of the Year: McHale, maybe?
Comeback Player of the Year: Lisicki or Serena I guess

What do you think?

Brad[le]y.
Sep 18th, 2011, 12:55 AM
Player of the Year: Li Na :D

Most Improved Player: Petkovic* :angel:

Newcomer of the Year: Stephens or McHale

Comeback Player of the Year: Serena



*I just said Petkovic because she was NEVER a big force in slams. Injury kept her out of the game for nine months and never made it past the 2R of a slam until USO 2010

one year later she has three QFs :D

(but of course I'm biased :p)

Crockett
Sep 18th, 2011, 07:27 AM
Player of the Year: Hard to predict. Whoever of this year's slam winners OR Caroline wins the YEC will get the nod I feel.
I agree, but I would include Maria Sharapova in the mix. If she wins the YEC and ends the year as #1, she would be a likely candidate.

Newcomer of the Year: McHale, maybe?
She is my candidate.

Comeback Player of the Year: Lisicki or Serena I guess
I think Serena's comeback is the more impressive, so I say Serena.

TennisFan66
Sep 18th, 2011, 09:55 AM
There's some discussion about it at General Morons, but there's no reason why we can't do it here as well....

Who do you think will win the WTA player of the year awards?

Player of the Year: Hard to predict. Whoever of this year's slam winners OR Caroline wins the YEC will get the nod I feel.
Most Improved Player: Probably Kvitova
Newcomer of the Year: McHale, maybe?
Comeback Player of the Year: Lisicki or Serena I guess

What do you think?

Pretty much sums it up really. POTY, winner of YEC if she's also #1. If Caroline could win YEC and keep her YE#1, I'd say she is odds on to be crowned POTY by WTA. Should also ensure, she's ITF World Champion again.

backhandsmash
Sep 18th, 2011, 11:12 AM
Player of the Year: Li Na (slam win + another final) or Kvitova (slam win + a PM win and more)

Most Improved Player: Kvitova (will surely get this if she doesn't get POY)

Newcomer of the Year: Pervak* (she has a title now and will be #37 on monday) or McHale (had some rather big wins)

Comeback Player of the Year: Serena without a doubt


*Does she count as a newcomer still?

postalblowfish
Sep 18th, 2011, 09:10 PM
Player of the Year: Vinci

Most Improved Player: Petkovic

Newcomer of the Year: Simona, obvs. Maybe Heather.

Comeback Player of the Year: Serena.

Bonfire
Sep 19th, 2011, 12:10 AM
Player of the year: Li Na (I think if Caro could win YEC and end year at #1...she should be considered too)

Most Improved player: Petkovic (I would say Kvitova but she got to W semi's last year and was touted as future Wimby champ almost all season and was inconsistent outside of Wimbledon)

Newcomer of the year: McHale (probably someone else I'm missing but this is the first that comes to mind)

Comeback Player of the Year: Serena Williams (no question)

Brad[le]y.
Sep 19th, 2011, 12:15 AM
Player of the year: Li Na (I think if Caro could win YEC and end year at #1...she should be considered too)

Most Improved player: Petkovic (I would say Kvitova but she got to W semi's last year and was touted as future Wimby champ almost all season and was inconsistent outside of Wimbledon)

Newcomer of the year: McHale (probably someone else I'm missing but this is the first that comes to mind)

Comeback Player of the Year: Serena Williams (no question)

:hearts:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 19th, 2011, 10:49 AM
Player of the year: Li Na (I think if Caro could win YEC and end year at #1...she should be considered too)
If Caroline still has the #1 ranking and she wins the YEC I think she'll get the nod. Same for Sharapova if she'd get to #1 and take the YEC title. Either one would have two major things - #1 plus YEC. If one of the slam champs wins the YEC they would also have two major things. So Caroline, Maria, Na, Petra and Sam are all still candidates at this point.

If Zvonareva, Serena (if she makes it) or Azarenka wins the YEC we have a problem.:lol: In that case they will give it to either Li or Kvitova in my opinion. If Li has good results in the Asian tournaments she could have the edge since she is marketing wise a more interesting figure than Kvitova to popularize the game.

Jimmie48
Sep 19th, 2011, 11:17 AM
Kvitova? Give me a break, players who do absolutely nothing outside of slams should not be rewarded for that.

I know winning Wimbledon is a big deal but that shouldn't be enough to become player of the year.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 19th, 2011, 11:33 AM
Kvitova? Give me a break, players who do absolutely nothing outside of slams should not be rewarded for that.

I know winning Wimbledon is a big deal but that shouldn't be enough to become player of the year.
But she's won three tournaments besides Wimbledon earlier in the year, including Madrid. Her record in tournaments other than slams is better than Li's. It's only post-Wimbledon that she's been struggling.

Protoss
Sep 19th, 2011, 02:14 PM
Most improved player candidates: Petkovic, Stosur, Li, Kvitova, Peng
Comeback player candidates: Serena, Lisicki
Newcomer of the year candidates: Begu, Pervak, McHale
Player of the year candidates: Caro, Sharapova, Kvitova, Stosur, Li

marineblue
Sep 19th, 2011, 02:32 PM
Player of the Year: Caroline if she manages to stay no.1 until the end of the year
Most Improved Player: Sam Stosur or Lisicki
Newcomer of the Year:Ksenia Pervak because of her win in Tashkent and one final in Baku
Comeback Player of the Year: Serena

Michael*
Sep 20th, 2011, 10:30 AM
Player of the Year: Caroline if she manages to stay no.1 until the end of the year
Most Improved Player: Sam Stosur or Lisicki
Newcomer of the Year:Ksenia Pervak because of her win in Tashkent and one final in Baku
Comeback Player of the Year: Serena

LOL :happy: Sam mad a slam final last year and was top 10-5 last year also (hardly most improved) and Lisicki would be more likely to win comeback player.

Anyway,

Player of the Year - Maria (if she can win Tokyo or Beijing and YEC, or Li or Kvitova.
Most Improved Player - Possibly Petkovic 3 GS QF and cracking the top 10. Pretty hard to look past that.
Newcomer - McHale or Pervak. Or someone could win up big on the Asia MM tour and take it.
Comeback Player - Gotta be Serena

marineblue
Sep 20th, 2011, 08:48 PM
Actually, she did not make UO final though. Lisicki has started the year ranked outside top 100 and look where she is now.

Michael*
Sep 20th, 2011, 10:55 PM
She still made a slam final.

Lisicki is former top 20.

TennisFan66
Sep 21st, 2011, 08:34 AM
LOL :happy:

Frankly speaking, imho such type of reply to another poster's opinion is more befitting for GM than here, where we certainly try our best to keep things far away from the juvenile GM level .. Just my 25 cents.

Michael*
Sep 21st, 2011, 09:38 AM
Frankly speaking, imho such type of reply to another poster's opinion is more befitting for GM than here, where we certainly try our best to keep things far away from the juvenile GM level .. Just my 25 cents.

Face bothered? No. Do I look bothered? No.

Crockett
Sep 21st, 2011, 09:49 AM
Face bothered? No. Do I look bothered? No.
Alas, karotard just qualified for my ignore list. I had hoped that I wouldn't be using that list for Caroline's forums.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 21st, 2011, 05:32 PM
Face bothered? No. Do I look bothered? No.
No need to keep up the tough guy act, this is not GM. You're among friends here if you want. The choice is yours. :)

marineblue
Sep 22nd, 2011, 05:27 PM
Frankly speaking, imho such type of reply to another poster's opinion is more befitting for GM than here, where we certainly try our best to keep things far away from the juvenile GM level .. Just my 25 cents.

Thank you :)

Chrissie-fan
Sep 27th, 2011, 08:49 AM
Alas, karotard just qualified for my ignore list. I had hoped that I wouldn't be using that list for Caroline's forums.
You're using that list for GM? If I did it would be so long that there would be no point anymore to go there (not that there is one anyway).

TennisFan66
Sep 27th, 2011, 01:59 PM
So Sam Stosur lost, but thats ok .. because everyone knows that

14 days hot streak + sucking for 9yr & 50 weeks >>>>>>> 10yr in top 10 + numerous tier 1 titles + #1 ranking but - a slam ..

EnerBC
Sep 27th, 2011, 02:04 PM
So Sam Stosur lost, but thats ok .. because everyone knows that

14 days hot streak + sucking for 9yr & 50 weeks >>>>>>> 10yr in top 10 + numerous tier 1 titles + #1 ranking but - a slam ..

Hehe, I gather you have been reading the Caro result thread in GM?
(I have not, just a guess)

Crockett
Sep 27th, 2011, 02:21 PM
You're using that list for GM? If I did it would be so long that there would be no point anymore to go there (not that there is one anyway).
I read GM selectively. I don't read threads that degenerate to free-for-all bashing, but there are other threads, and the ignore list can be helpful there.

Crockett
Sep 27th, 2011, 02:28 PM
Hehe, I gather you have been reading the Caro result thread in GM?
I haven't been there either, but I can give you a digest of the main points made:

Jarka, how can you lose? The match was on your racket!
The aces served by the Woz completely reflect Gajdosova's impossible movement when returning serve. Those would never have been aces against a reasonable player.
Massive choke in that second set. Jarka stepped it up in the tiebreak and should have won the decider.
Boring all the way, except at the end of that second set.
NID

Chrissie-fan
Sep 27th, 2011, 02:36 PM
So Sam Stosur lost, but thats ok .. because everyone knows that

14 days hot streak + sucking for 9yr & 50 weeks >>>>>>> 10yr in top 10 + numerous tier 1 titles + #1 ranking but - a slam ..
Stosur losing isn't THAT much of a surprise. This was a close match that could have gone either way, just like the one they had at the USO. Kirilenko won this one and Stosur won the one at the USO - as a result of which she's now regarded as a great player. If it had been the other way around she'd still be 'just' a good player like she was a month ago.....such is tennis.......

Chrissie-fan
Sep 27th, 2011, 02:47 PM
I haven't been there either, but I can give you a digest of the main points made:

Jarka, how can you lose? The match was on your racket!
The aces served by the Woz completely reflect Gajdosova's impossible movement when returning serve. Those would never have been aces against a reasonable player.
Massive choke in that second set. Jarka stepped it up in the tiebreak and should have won the decider.
Boring all the way, except at the end of that second set.
NID

:lol:

I very rarely visit the result threads of Caro matches in GM anymore. The posts are always the same anyway - no matter if she wins or loses. It's like they paste and copy their posts from the previous match to the latest one. The only minor difference between Caro losing or winning is that when she loses she's been exposed for the fraud that she is and when she wins she had nothing to do with it.

Michael*
Sep 27th, 2011, 11:08 PM
:lol:

I very rarely visit the result threads of Caro matches in GM anymore. The posts are always the same anyway - no matter if she wins or loses. It's like they paste and copy their posts from the previous match to the latest one. The only minor difference between Caro losing or winning is that when she loses she's been exposed for the fraud that she is and when she wins she had nothing to do with it.


:happy: This is just too true! GM is so jealous of our beloved Karolina, I honestly wish they could just accept the fact that she is number 1 and move on already. Its just be far too long of that immature stuff. Different players have different priorities, Kim, Serena even Maria etc. are out for the slams now, they don't care about the ranking its like "been there, done that" and they just want to rack up as many slams as possible before retiring. While Caro, JJ etc. are more focused on week in week out consistency and getting up the rankings and believe if they keep on winning smaller tournaments it will transpire into the slams.

DownInAHole
Sep 27th, 2011, 11:46 PM
:happy: This is just too true! GM is so jealous of our beloved Karolina, I honestly wish they could just accept the fact that she is number 1 and move on already. Its just be far too long of that immature stuff. Different players have different priorities, Kim, Serena even Maria etc. are out for the slams now, they don't care about the ranking its like "been there, done that" and they just want to rack up as many slams as possible before retiring. While Caro, JJ etc. are more focused on week in week out consistency and getting up the rankings and believe if they keep on winning smaller tournaments it will transpire into the slams.

I'm not so sure that Maria does not care about the number one ranking. Keep in mind that she is significantly younger than Serena and Kim and that she still plays a relatively full schedule. For a brief time just before the US Open she was the leader in points accumulated for 2011 so she has been pretty close to being number one. If she plays more often next year she has a decent chance to become number one, particularly if she does well from January-March.

Which part of our wonderful country do you hail from? There are not many Canucks that post here.

Protoss
Sep 28th, 2011, 04:20 AM
I'm not so sure that Maria does not care about the number one ranking. Keep in mind that she is significantly younger than Serena and Kim and that she still plays a relatively full schedule. For a brief time just before the US Open she was the leader in points accumulated for 2011 so she has been pretty close to being number one. If she plays more often next year she has a decent chance to become number one, particularly if she does well from January-March.

Which part of our wonderful country do you hail from? There are not many Canucks that post here.
Sharapova played 13 tournaments last year and should play 15 this year (assuming she plays Beijing and the YEC). Most of the top 10 play 18 to 22 tournaments a year. :shrug:

Michael*
Sep 28th, 2011, 08:44 AM
I'm not so sure that Maria does not care about the number one ranking. Keep in mind that she is significantly younger than Serena and Kim and that she still plays a relatively full schedule. For a brief time just before the US Open she was the leader in points accumulated for 2011 so she has been pretty close to being number one. If she plays more often next year she has a decent chance to become number one, particularly if she does well from January-March.

Which part of our wonderful country do you hail from? There are not many Canucks that post here.

I personally believe Maris is more focused on winning slams. And yes, she is much younger than Serena and Kim however she has always openly discussed her desire of an early retirement and I think she would have retired by 25/26 of course the number one rank is a motivation for her, but she seems more determined to win slams, her scheduled is very strategic to not tire before slams and try and peak during the slams. And obviously with basically no points to defend until Indian Wells, Maria does stand a very strong chanced of ascending to the number one rank.

Originally from Vancouver recentlly moved to Toronto! How about your self? :)

DownInAHole
Sep 28th, 2011, 09:09 AM
Sharapova played 13 tournaments last year and should play 15 this year (assuming she plays Beijing and the YEC). Most of the top 10 play 18 to 22 tournaments a year. :shrug:

I personally believe Maris is more focused on winning slams. And yes, she is much younger than Serena and Kim however she has always openly discussed her desire of an early retirement and I think she would have retired by 25/26 of course the number one rank is a motivation for her, but she seems more determined to win slams, her scheduled is very strategic to not tire before slams and try and peak during the slams. And obviously with basically no points to defend until Indian Wells, Maria does stand a very strong chanced of ascending to the number one rank.

Originally from Vancouver recentlly moved to Toronto! How about your self? :)

It is true that Maria plays a lighter schedule than the rest of the tour but still heavier than Kim and Serena (even when they are healthy). I believe she was supposed to play in Dubai and Doha this year but pulled out due to illness.

I hail from the tiny hamlet of Trenton, Nova Scotia.

terjw
Sep 28th, 2011, 07:55 PM
It is true that Maria plays a lighter schedule than the rest of the tour but still heavier than Kim and Serena (even when they are healthy). I believe she was supposed to play in Dubai and Doha this year but pulled out due to illness.

I hail from the tiny hamlet of Trenton, Nova Scotia.

How can you say that. Kim said at the beginning of the season she intended to play a full schedule this year. And what she intended to do is more that Maria has played. Kim's schedule if she hadn't been injured was coming out at about 16 tornaments if she'd made the YEC (plus Fed Cup). Kim has been plagued with injuries this year. You can't say she would have played a lighter schedule even if she wasn't injured unless you think Kim was lying when she gave her schedule the first half of the year and stated she intended to play a full schedule meeting all the committments a top ten is supposed to re PMs and P5s etc.

DownInAHole
Sep 28th, 2011, 09:45 PM
How can you say that. Kim said at the beginning of the season she intended to play a full schedule this year. And what she intended to do is more that Maria has played. Kim's schedule if she hadn't been injured was coming out at about 16 tornaments if she'd made the YEC (plus Fed Cup). Kim has been plagued with injuries this year. You can't say she would have played a lighter schedule even if she wasn't injured unless you think Kim was lying when she gave her schedule the first half of the year and stated she intended to play a full schedule meeting all the committments a top ten is supposed to re PMs and P5s etc.

Fair enough. But I do think it is debatable about whether or not she would have played Tokyo and Beijing. Around the time of Indian Wells wasn't she saying she was worried about the radiation?

Also, I believe that Maria missed a couple of tournaments in February (Dubai and Doha) due to illness so she probably intended to play more often this year too.

Whatever the reason it seems like Kim will be playing a reduced schedule for the rest of her career.

Chrissie-fan
Oct 1st, 2011, 05:22 PM
And.....anyone impressed with Radwanska? I definitely am. It's good to see that in the age of lumberjack tennis there's still room at the top for someone with her skills.

marineblue
Oct 1st, 2011, 06:18 PM
I am also. I think her game resembles Caroline's. Her success already roughed a few feathers in General Morons.

Chrissie-fan
Oct 1st, 2011, 07:19 PM
I am also. I think her game resembles Caroline's. Her success already roughed a few feathers in General Morons.
Yes, I've noticed. But GM's feathers are easily ruffled. I hope that both girls will ruffle 'em some more in years to come. :lol:

DownInAHole
Oct 1st, 2011, 08:46 PM
I would have been happy to see either Vera or Agnieszka win. I thought Vera was very impressive coming back from being down 5-1 against Petra and Agnieszka looked good taking out Viktoria.

Brad[le]y.
Oct 2nd, 2011, 03:19 AM
I've noticed a connection between our Polish Princesses

Stockholm

2007 champ: Aga
2008 champ: Caro


Eastbourne

2008 champ: Aga
2009 champ: Caro

Tokyo

2010 champ: Caro
2011 champ: Aga


one Polish princess wins a title, the other wins it the next year :D

lang26
Oct 2nd, 2011, 05:22 AM
I've noticed a connection between our Polish Princesses

Stockholm

2007 champ: Aga
2008 champ: Caro


Eastbourne

2008 champ: Aga
2009 champ: Caro

Tokyo

2010 champ: Caro
2011 champ: Aga


one Polish princess wins a title, the other wins it the next year :D

I never notic that I guess the BFF R Taking turn Taking over tennis :bounce:

Jimmie48
Oct 3rd, 2011, 05:13 PM
With the results Na & Kvitova are getting lately, I´m not sure I ever want Caro to win a slam.

Burisleif
Oct 3rd, 2011, 05:30 PM
With the results Na & Kvitova are getting lately, I´m not sure I ever want Caro to win a slam.

I feel the oposite, Caro seems (to me) to suffer from frustration due to slow progress (first Tier 1) and respond with consistency and confidence once she jumps a hurdle.

I don't think we are talking about the same kind of mentality as Na and Kvitova at all. :)

DownInAHole
Oct 3rd, 2011, 05:34 PM
With the results Na & Kvitova are getting lately, I´m not sure I ever want Caro to win a slam.

Well, looking at their ages I think you ought to give Petra a bit more leeway. She certainly has oodles of time to improve her consistency. She can be quite erratic but of all the young players she is the only one to prove she can win a slam and I suspect that over the next few years she is only going to get better.

DownInAHole
Oct 3rd, 2011, 05:42 PM
I feel the oposite, Caro seems (to me) to suffer from frustration due to slow progress (first Tier 1) and respond with consistency and confidence once she jumps a hurdle.

I don't think we are talking about the same kind of mentality as Na and Kvitova at all. :)

I'm not trying to be antagonistic but to what would you attribute her recent struggles to? Frustration at her inability to snag that first slam? Are you of the opinion that when/if she does win a slam she will be a semi-regular contender for them?

It gives me no joy to say this but consistency and confidence are two things that I think she has lacked recently, notwithstanding her win at New Haven and run at the US Open.

I'll feel much better about her game when she is regularly making quarters/semis and finals again.

Chrissie-fan
Oct 3rd, 2011, 05:50 PM
With the results Na & Kvitova are getting lately, I´m not sure I ever want Caro to win a slam.
The difference is though that those two players are now slumping because of the increased expectations and thus pressure on them since winning their major. It makes them feel as though they are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders. Caroline's case is just the opposite. She's been under pressure for over a year now, and she has proven that she deals with it well enough to hold onto #1. winning a slam - or even just the YEC would actually take the weight OFF her shoulders.

Burisleif
Oct 3rd, 2011, 06:26 PM
I'm not trying to be antagonistic but to what would you attribute her recent struggles to?

Replied in the Caro Tennis thread.

TennisFan66
Oct 3rd, 2011, 06:49 PM
The difference is though that those two players are now slumping because of the increased expectations and thus pressure on them since winning their major. It makes them feel as though they are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders. Caroline's case is just the opposite. She's been under pressure for over a year now, and she has proven that she deals with it well enough to hold onto #1. winning a slam - or even just the YEC would actually take the weight OFF her shoulders.

IMHO 'This' ..

marineblue
Oct 3rd, 2011, 07:59 PM
Imagine what an advert would it be for the WTA if players like that were no.1 now. Although I think some people who stubbornly claim that slams are a proof of greatness would try to justify all their losses and inability to perform under the pressure which is in tour events and, actually, slams too. All of the current slam winners underperformed at GS too. I mean a win at Wimbledon and R1 loss in US Open (after a disastrous UO series)...that's hardly a proof of greatness.

Burisleif
Oct 3rd, 2011, 08:02 PM
What's the story with the schedule of play on Caroline's half? Half the players are in round 2 the rest in round 3 already?

terjw
Oct 3rd, 2011, 08:26 PM
The difference is though that those two players are now slumping because of the increased expectations and thus pressure on them since winning their major. It makes them feel as though they are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders. Caroline's case is just the opposite. She's been under pressure for over a year now, and she has proven that she deals with it well enough to hold onto #1. winning a slam - or even just the YEC would actually take the weight OFF her shoulders.

True - but they are more hot and cold players anyway. With them you feel they could lose early one tournament and play brilliantly the next tournament before and after their slams.

Caro's trademark has been that she maintains a more constant level. That is probably why it's harder for us Carofans to take early losses. I really don'y know what to think about pressure. I don't deny it's there. But I don't think it is the explanation of all the results everyone has. I think that the standard of tennis is closer nowadays and it's difficult to maintain your form. Low ranked players raise their games sometimes against higher ranked players but can't do it often enough to climb the rankings themselves. Also players are more thrilled to have beaten the world #1 or a slam winner and do sometimes play lights out against them

Chrissie-fan
Oct 3rd, 2011, 08:38 PM
Imagine what an advert would it be for the WTA if players like that were no.1 now. Although I think some people who stubbornly claim that slams are a proof of greatness would try to justify all their losses and inability to perform under the pressure which is in tour events and, actually, slams too. All of the current slam winners underperformed at GS too. I mean a win at Wimbledon and R1 loss in US Open (after a disastrous UO series)...that's hardly a proof of greatness.
Winning a slam means that you did better than everyone else in a tournament that everyone is eager to win while the whole world is watching. A great achievement - no doubt about it. But it's not a licence to suck for the rest of your career. Not if you want to be considered one of the greats of the game anyway.

But to get to #1 on the ranking list you have to play great tennis for at least one year. There has NEVER been such a thing as a undeserving #1. No - not even Ivanovic because if she hadn't done great in the twelve months leading up to her reaching #1 she never would have gotten there. She did however play poorly once she was #1, which is why she was gone from there in the blink of an eye. But Caroline has successfully defended her #1 ranking for a year now. That means basically that she's had the best (or most consistent) results for two years. That's a bigger achievement in my book than being the best for two weeks. Clijsters? Ok, she's been greater the past two years because she has proven it on the biggest stages of the game over and over again. But Schiavone, Li, Kvitova or Stosur? No way!

DownInAHole
Oct 3rd, 2011, 09:20 PM
What's the story with the schedule of play on Caroline's half? Half the players are in round 2 the rest in round 3 already?

Three of the four semi-finalists from Tokyo (each of whom received first round byes) are in her half, perhaps that messed up the schedule?

DownInAHole
Oct 3rd, 2011, 09:26 PM
True - but they are more hot and cold players anyway. With them you feel they could lose early one tournament and play brilliantly the next tournament before and after their slams.

Caro's trademark has been that she maintains a more constant level. That is probably why it's harder for us Carofans to take early losses. I really don'y know what to think about pressure. I don't deny it's there. But I don't think it is the explanation of all the results everyone has. I think that the standard of tennis is closer nowadays and it's difficult to maintain your form. Low ranked players raise their games sometimes against higher ranked players but can't do it often enough to climb the rankings themselves. Also players are more thrilled to have beaten the world #1 or a slam winner and do sometimes play lights out against them

Of course the opposing school of thought is that the very best players today are not on the same level as the best players from yesteryear. We have a lot of average players and a handful of good players but we are lacking truly great players. I tend to lean in that direction but we need to see how things will shake out over the next 10-15 years before any solid conclusions can be reached.

TennisFan66
Oct 4th, 2011, 10:45 AM
With Sam Stosur now also out thats the last 3 slam winners with early exit (again) .. BUT thats not embarrassing, because they're slam winners, so they can suck forever and be worshipped by 'the real tennis fans' in GM, as the great slam CHAMPIONS, they are :rolleyes:

If I live to be a 1,000, I'll still not understand the way GM teens look at tennis. By then I'll probably be even further away from understanding :lol:

DownInAHole
Oct 5th, 2011, 11:23 AM
Wow, did anyone watch the Zvonareva/Ivanovic match? Ana absolutely spanked her! I believe that Ana only has one other win this year against a top ten player and that was a slumping Jankovic who was on her way out of the top ten.

QuietPlease
Oct 5th, 2011, 11:30 AM
Wow, did anyone watch the Zvonareva/Ivanovic match? Ana absolutely spanked her! I believe that Ana only has one other win this year against a top ten player and that was a slumping Jankovic who was on her way out of the top ten.

Only saw the last couple of games. High quality!