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View Full Version : WTA Treated As 2nd Class In Combined Cincy


SAISAI-GOAT
Aug 19th, 2011, 02:38 PM
On Monday Ana was the night match, Tuesday Maria the night match and Wed Vika the night match before she withdrew ... but on Thursday and Friday WTA does not get a Center Court night match at all :shrug: and only one match on Center Court during the day :tape:

for 8 R16 match, ATP get 3 on Center Court, 2 on Grandstand, 3 on Court 3 ... WTA get 1 on Center Court, 2 on Grandstand, 1 on Court 3, 4 on Court 9

for 4 QF, ATP get 3 on Center Court, 1 on Grandstand ... WTA get 1 on Center Court, 3 on Grandstand

ATP plays SF at 13.00 on Saturday where Europeans can watch live ... WTA plays SF at 19.00 on Saturday when Europeans are asleep :oh:

the crowds not that big on the WTA matches I saw on livestream ...

so is it good for the WTA that Cincy is a combined event ???

on the other hand, maybe WTA deserves ... the ATP QF has 7 of the top 8 SEEDS while the WTA QF has 2 of the top 8 :hysteric:

the #1 on the ATP lost 1 match this year while the #1 on WTA lost to a WC :sobbing:

the biggest draw in Cincy withdrew to attend a wedding :happy:

Steven.
Aug 19th, 2011, 02:39 PM
oh NA-GOAT, I love you and your posts but this issue doesn't need to be addressed every other tournament.

Adrian.
Aug 19th, 2011, 02:52 PM
It's a shame for the WTA tour :help: :o

In The Zone
Aug 19th, 2011, 02:56 PM
I'd blame ESPN. They have priority with the scheduling.

Kworb
Aug 19th, 2011, 02:59 PM
We just have to accept the WTA is in terrible shape.

sam.jones
Aug 19th, 2011, 02:59 PM
as long as all the QF are televised it is fine...it was really bad yesterday with 4 Rf 16 matches on a no tv court...that was the main problem

even for the men the crowd is not that big btw...outsold looks different to me, and you can't ask for a better line up IMO

it's like miami without lower ranked players, honestly perfect event

Rui.
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:02 PM
If you look at the crowds you'll see who sells more. In the end that's what matters for the guys who have a say in the schedules.

I mean, Nadal played a doubles match yesterday and according to reports there were people standing as there were no places left.. How many women can do that? ;)

Also, the wta wins more for having a combined event that the atp tour :shrug:

Langers
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:04 PM
Another one of these sooky why do the men rule everything posts. :yawn: :lol:

In The Zone
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:04 PM
If you look at the crowds you'll see who sells more. In the end that's what matters for the guys who have a say in the schedules.

I mean, Nadal played a doubles match yesterday and according to reports there were people standing as there were no places left.. How many women can do that? ;)

Also, the wta wins more for having a combined event that the atp tour :shrug:

Three women on tour can do that.

For the men, only 3 can too. As much as people try to hype the big "4", no one cares about the 4th little troll outside of the UK.

Rui.
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:06 PM
Three women on tour can do that.

For the men, only 3 can too. As much as people try to hype the big "4", no one cares about the 4th little troll outside of the UK.

And 2 of those women played 7 events this between them. As much as people try to hype Serena, Venus and Maria they don't have the star power Nadal and Federer have. Not globally atleast.

And in average, the middle ranked men fill stadium easier than the middle ranked women

Jane Lane
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:07 PM
Grandstand was packed last night for JaJa when they realized Blake is still shit. ;)

ptkten
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:12 PM
And 2 of those women played 7 events this between them. As much as people try to hype Serena, Venus and Maria they don't have the star power Nadal and Federer have. Not globally atleast.

And in average, the middle ranked men fill stadium easier than the middle ranked women

You're right, the order of popularity in the U.S. (can't speak for the rest of the world) is Federer, then Nadal, then Venus/Serena/Maria/Djokovic/American men's player, then any men's match and then about a 100 times less popular any women's match.

LUVMIRZA
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:14 PM
WTA management has to have more spine...

ptkten
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:18 PM
I am shocked that the women have no televised matches today though. Sharapova/Stosur really should be on ESPN 2 but instead we have to watch it on ESPN3.com. That's really bad for the quarters of one of the ten biggest events of the year. ESPN/WTA should think about letting TTC show the women's tournament if they continue to get shafted like this.

Kipling
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:21 PM
It's never good for the women when they have to compete for attendance with the men, not at a mid-size event like that. The slams are fine, even a large premiere event like Miami works out, in my experience, because it's so cosmopolitan there, you have people from every conceiveable ethnic and cultural group and they do pack in there for the tennis each day. Not every match is full, but most matches on the outside courts have excellent crowd support.

But the smaller tournaments, at least here in the US, really suffer. The economy is awful, people just don't have the luxury dollars to spend on sporting events like this, let alone week long passes, and when they do, they expect to see premium quality matches between the best players, and the organizers have to deliver the best product. They're in a no win situation, really. It's unfortunate the way it is, but it is.

The answer is that the women's tour has to go places that let it create its own identity separate and apart from the men's tour--historically, places like Amelia Island and Charleston here in the US helped it do that. Those were iconic events that were linked hand in hand with women's tennis, and by and large, drew big, eager, enthusiastic crowds. AI still would, but it had sponsor issues. That's the big problem. THe WTA sorely needs to go to venues where people will embrace it, and there are markets out there, but the problem is having a good bag man (i.e., $)

Daan
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:23 PM
You could see this coming from the moment it was announced that Cincinnati would become a combined event. It's always the same, SO unfair! That's why I think we should just keep the women's only events.

Patrick345
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:25 PM
You probably think itīs a coincidence that zthe WTA has this scheduled for Eurosport and probably tennis channel, too.

17.00 ES
19.00 ES
21.00 ES2
1.00 Eurosport Player

Itīs not just what ESPN wants. Youīd rather have one match on Grandstand at 17.00 CET, and one on CC at 17.00 CET, and the last womenīs match at 2.30 CET on CC? :confused:

In The Zone
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:26 PM
I am shocked that the women have no televised matches today though. Sharapova/Stosur really should be on ESPN 2 but instead we have to watch it on ESPN3.com. That's really bad for the quarters of one of the ten biggest events of the year. ESPN/WTA should think about letting TTC show the women's tournament if they continue to get shafted like this.

I think they'll do what they have been doing all summer. They'll sneak peek at the other court while the men are playing. In between men's matches, they'll show the women's match on Grandstand.

Rui.
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:29 PM
As if Cincinatti being or not combined made a huge difference. If people had to chose do you think they would chose the women's event? They wouldn't.

The truth is that the men's tour would survive without the women's but the reverse wouldn't happen. If there were no male tennis at a slam the crowds wouldn't be a tenth of what they are.

I don't know why people whine so much in here. Tennis is the only sport where women are treated almost as equally as the men. No other sport even comes close.

Wojtek
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:31 PM
once again :tape: it's boring just compare ATP and WTA. WTA sucks big time right now. It's good for WTA that the event is the same week with ATP becuase in the past years it was something 0 crowd in the stands even if Serena played.

Wojtek
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:32 PM
You could see this coming from the moment it was announced that Cincinnati would become a combined event. It's always the same, SO unfair! That's why I think we should just keep the women's only events.
it isn't unfair. In the 1996-2004 we have full stadns in almost every event but we have whole packet of stars nowdays :tape:

In The Zone
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:32 PM
Promotionally and for the WTA as a product, combined events are not good for the tour.

Financially for the tour and for the event themselves, combining the costs helps tournaments like this stay viable and possibly even profitable.

Until we have the bitches of the late 90's, early 00's back, WTA will have to piggyback on ATP's back.

Whitehead's Boy
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:41 PM
Honestly, have you guys seen how many empty seats there were for the Wozniacki match? ON COURT 1 (!!!) And against an American player. When was the last time spectators had the chance to see a number 1 player in the world on court 1, ie closer than usual, in a WTA tournament?

The WTA should thank God for combined events. It's a no-brainer combined events are a win for the weaker product.

Wojtek
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:47 PM
Honestly, have you guys seen how many empty seats there were for the Wozniacki match? ON COURT 1 (!!!) And against an American player. When was the last time spectators had the chance to see a number 1 player in the world on court 1, ie closer than usual, in a WTA tournament?

The WTA should thank God for combined events. It's a no-brainer combined events are a win for the weaker product.
:bigclap::bigclap:

darrinbaker00
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:54 PM
Honestly, have you guys seen how many empty seats there were for the Wozniacki match? ON COURT 1 (!!!) And against an American player. When was the last time spectators had the chance to see a number 1 player in the world on court 1, ie closer than usual, in a WTA tournament?

The WTA should thank God for combined events. It's a no-brainer combined events are a win for the weaker product.

Thus saith the atheist. ;)

dsanders06
Aug 19th, 2011, 03:56 PM
We just have to accept the WTA is in terrible shape.

Yup. 3 of the 4 men's QFs are mouth-watering match-ups (Nadal-Fish, Federer-Berdych, Djokovic-Monfils); while, for the casual tennis fan, the women's QFs just looks like Sharapova, 6 anonymities and a drama queen who produces more tantrums in a match than she does winners. If the women want to be treated "equally", they're just going to have to produce a better product which has as many compelling storylines, characters and rivalries as the men's game does.

Honestly, have you guys seen how many empty seats there were for the Wozniacki match? ON COURT 1 (!!!) And against an American player. When was the last time spectators had the chance to see a number 1 player in the world on court 1, ie closer than usual, in a WTA tournament?

The WTA should thank God for combined events. It's a no-brainer combined events are a win for the weaker product.

This. The WTA benefits to no end from combined events. Coverage for us hardcore tennis fans is MUCH better (I remember in the last couple of years, we didn't get any coverage AT ALL from Cincinnati for the first few days, nevermind streams for multiple courts like this year), and it gives far greater exposure to the women's game than WTA-only events. Plus, I'm guessing the revenue from the events is split equally between the ATP and WTA, or close to it, which in all honesty would really be a disproportionately good deal for the WTA.

duhcity
Aug 19th, 2011, 04:00 PM
Contrary to what many of you think, attendance is always higher during combined events, and the ATP does get a boost. But obviously on a smaller scale than women do.

I won't complain too much about Cincinnati. Last year, when it was a separate event, had a great lineup but still barely pulled in a crowd. Though it was raining.



This. The WTA benefits to no end from combined events. Coverage for us hardcore tennis fans is MUCH better (I remember in the last couple of years, we didn't get any coverage AT ALL from Cincinnati for the first few days, nevermind streams for multiple courts like this year), and it gives far greater exposure to the women's game than WTA-only events. Plus, I'm guessing the revenue from the events is split equally between the ATP and WTA, or close to it, which in all honesty would really be a disproportionately good deal for the WTA.

Coverage last year was better :shrug: And it was definitely better last year, at least for the US, for Rogers Cup when they were separate weeks
And the reason there wasn't any for Cincinnati for several years is because that was when it was a Tier 3.

dsanders06
Aug 19th, 2011, 04:09 PM
Contrary to what many of you think, attendance is always higher during combined events, and the ATP does get a boost. But obviously on a smaller scale than women do.

I won't complain too much about Cincinnati. Last year, when it was a separate event, had a great lineup but still barely pulled in a crowd. Though it was raining.



Coverage last year was better :shrug: And it was definitely better last year, at least for the US, for Rogers Cup when they were separate weeks
And the reason there wasn't any for Cincinnati for several years is because that was when it was a Tier 3.

Iirc, there wasn't any until like the Thursday even last year when it was a Tier 1. I remember having to resort to tracking the 1R Sharapova-Kuznetsova match on livescores.

In The Zone
Aug 19th, 2011, 04:26 PM
Iirc, there wasn't any until like the Thursday even last year when it was a Tier 1. I remember having to resort to tracking the 1R Sharapova-Kuznetsova match on livescores.

Yep. Don't people remember Clijsters' return match against Bartoli and there being NO stream?

hablo
Aug 19th, 2011, 04:28 PM
Shocking... not.

Capriati Rules
Aug 19th, 2011, 04:39 PM
Bottom line is what match on the women's side actually deserves to be a center court night match tonight?

Simon Cowell
Aug 19th, 2011, 04:44 PM
If I said to most of the people who played, 'Good job, awesome, well done,' it would have made me actually look and feel ridiculous. It's quite obvious most of the people who turned up for this tuornament were hopeless. :rolleyes:

Wiggly
Aug 19th, 2011, 05:38 PM
Three women on tour can do that.

For the men, only 3 can too. As much as people try to hype the big "4", no one cares about the 4th little troll outside of the UK.

This. :lol:
Andy never held that #1 spot, never won a Slam and still needs his mommy.

BluSthil
Aug 19th, 2011, 06:32 PM
Comparing the depth of talent in the WTA with the ATP is like comparing a Mustage with a Ferrari !!! The WTA is woefully weak right now. Hopefully, some of the young talent will mature and be competitive, with younger promising talent on the way...

GoofyDuck
Aug 19th, 2011, 06:47 PM
combined events suck and ruin the WTA even more.

on one side it's good because ATP fans get to see women aswell, but on the other side it also gets WTA matches on smaller courts and less crowd than if it were WTA-only.

currie84
Aug 19th, 2011, 06:54 PM
Yup. 3 of the 4 men's QFs are mouth-watering match-ups (Nadal-Fish, Federer-Berdych, Djokovic-Monfils);



lol

Serendy Willick
Aug 19th, 2011, 07:01 PM
What depth in mens tennis? All I see is novak djokovic running over the field

Londoner
Aug 19th, 2011, 07:11 PM
We just have to accept the WTA is in terrible shape.

This.

Londoner
Aug 19th, 2011, 07:12 PM
What depth in mens tennis? All I see is novak djokovic running over the field

Not in Paris ;)

Londoner
Aug 19th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Three women on tour can do that.

For the men, only 3 can too. As much as people try to hype the big "4", no one cares about the 4th little troll outside of the UK.

:lol: like him or loathe him, Murray is better known world wide than the women's No 1!

DefyingGravity
Aug 19th, 2011, 07:44 PM
The scheduling gets more and more difficult in the United States when Nadal and Federer and budding household name Djokovic are still active in the men's tournament vs. basically Maria by herself with a sideshow of Petkovic and Zvonareva and Jankovic.

If Serena was still in the tournament, you could have GUARANTEED that she would be out there on the night session, but she isn't. And Maria is the only WTA star. The rest of them have either been too far removed from their good results or got stomped on by a bigger star in a slam final or haven't even made one yet.

Patrick345
Aug 19th, 2011, 07:52 PM
Honestly, have you guys seen how many empty seats there were for the Wozniacki match? ON COURT 1 (!!!) And against an American player. When was the last time spectators had the chance to see a number 1 player in the world on court 1, ie closer than usual, in a WTA tournament?

This is a flatout lie you have repeated numerous times now, but it seems Woz fans have given up to defend her. :lol:

Whitehead's Boy
Aug 20th, 2011, 02:31 AM
This is a flatout lie you have repeated numerous times now, but it seems Woz fans have given up to defend her. :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN-fEb88sE4

Caesar1844
Aug 20th, 2011, 02:59 AM
It's treated as second class because it is second class.

The truth is that the men's tour would survive without the women's but the reverse wouldn't happen. If there were no male tennis at a slam the crowds wouldn't be a tenth of what they are.

I don't know why people whine so much in here. Tennis is the only sport where women are treated almost as equally as the men. No other sport even comes close.
This.

The WTA should thank God for combined events. It's a no-brainer combined events are a win for the weaker product.
And this.

iPatty
Aug 20th, 2011, 03:09 AM
:lol: like him or loathe him, Murray is better known world wide than the women's No 1!

Irony. This is it.

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 20th, 2011, 03:22 AM
and they get shafted to night session on SF day and womens final is after the mens final

No Live TV coverage in Europe for womens SF :fiery:

cloudseed
Aug 20th, 2011, 03:24 AM
Like Sharapova said, womens tennis atm lacks rivalry whereas the men's dont. Rivalries make the tennis a lot more exciting but the women have been fluctuating a lot more than the men as well.

rucolo
Aug 20th, 2011, 01:39 PM
yeah, so annoying. :fiery:

Let`s take a look at R3 day. 8 men`s and 8 women`s singles matches to be played. All 8 men`s matches were on TV courts. But on the women`s side only 4 were on TV courts! The scheduling at combined events is always so anti-WTA. :rolleyes:

PLP
Aug 20th, 2011, 01:45 PM
and they get shafted to night session on SF day and womens final is after the mens final

No Live TV coverage in Europe for womens SF :fiery:


Wow, that's awful.
The USO is usually quite balanced, a little surprised at Cincy TBH.

I think the tournament was just fine last year, I don't get all of these combined events.

thrust
Aug 20th, 2011, 02:08 PM
The women, unfortunately, have the prime time evening matches tonight. Women's tennis today is much inferior to the men's game. The only consistant outstanding-great player is Serena. The rest are very inconsistant and mentally weak.

darrinbaker00
Aug 20th, 2011, 04:46 PM
The women, unfortunately, have the prime time evening matches tonight. Women's tennis today is much inferior to the men's game. The only consistant outstanding-great player is Serena. The rest are very inconsistant and mentally weak.

Given the weather patterns in Cincinnati this week, I'm sure the men would gladly trade places with the women today.