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CHOCO
Nov 7th, 2002, 06:59 PM
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JONI MITCHELL'S SOUR-NOTE RANT

SINGING and songwriting legend Joni Mitchell can't stand Madonna.
"Madonna has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena," Mitchell tells W magazine.

"She's manufactured. She's made a lot of money and become the biggest star in the world by hiring the right people."

Sadly for fight fans, the feeling is not mutual.

"Wow," said Madonna's rep, Liz Rosenberg. "What can I say? Madonna has always been a huge fan of Joni Mitchell's. I don't know what to say. I'm sorry she feels that way. Madonna speaks frequently about her admiration and worship of Joni's talent. Wow. The feeling isn't mutual."

Madonna isn't Mitchell's only target in the bombshell interview. The "Parking Lot" singer also doesn't care much for David Letterman.

"Letterman treats musicians like the armpit of the [entertainment] industry. He tags you on at the end [of his television show], never talks to you - while he talks to the dimmest actress."

A rep for Letterman would say only: "The feeling isn't mutual."

As for everyone else, Mitchell - who claims she is leaving the music industry forever because the "business is repugnant to me" - had this to say:

* "David [Geffen] is almost like my mother . . . David seems to have an inability to see me fresh. I'm fond of David. Though I don't know why . . . It's a strong combative relationship. He was money motivated, I was art motivated. He took advantage, but he took advantage of everybody - that's the nature of the business."

* Regarding contemporary artists: "As long as they look good, they can pitch-correct them now - they can interior-decorate their music. The artists don't have to play anything - they can cheat, buy songs and put their name on them, so they can build the illusion that they are creative."

* On the music business: "[It is] the most corrupt one of all. They try not to pay you whenever possible. Part of me wants to spill the beans, but it doesn't seem to be effective . . . They're not looking for talent. They're looking for a look and a willingness to cooperate. And a woman my age, no matter how well-preserved, no longer has the look. And I have never had a willingness to cooperate."

* Regarding her 1995 reunion with her daughter Kilauren Gibb, whom she had put for adoption over 30 years ago: "I have a wonderful relationship with my daughter and my grandchildren. [After the reunion], for a year or two, it was difficult. Now we're hummin' . . . We don't have the scar tissue that's frequently built up between mother and daughter."

* On Hollywood: "There is nothing duller to me than a room full of stars. There is too much effort, straining, and they're all exhibitionists. I need a climate of affection. You're not going to find a pocket of affection in a room full of stars."

MLF
Nov 7th, 2002, 07:09 PM
Joni is a bit of a sour old witch at times but some of her music is pure class. She's made some of the all time greatest albums. I don't agree with her on all those points but do agree with what she says about Madonna.

nasty nick#2
Nov 7th, 2002, 07:12 PM
Hey what's wrong with old dave :mad:

baleineau
Nov 7th, 2002, 07:17 PM
i have no experience of the music industry, but i would rely on joni to have a fair-minded opinion, and has more experience than most.

i disagree with her about madonna. i think madonna's boldness paved the way for more female artists to be taken seriously by the music industry and to have more control over her own destiny. the problem is, the music industry was also changing towards image rather than substance, so madonna was part of that process too.

i've never seen letterman, but i imagine she's right. the chat shows in britain are increasingly full of celeb-lites such as david beckham, posh spice etc. to have a less famous artist, poet or thinker on may tune the tv couch potato, celebrity-worshipping viewer off.

sad times.

G-Ha
Nov 7th, 2002, 07:18 PM
Give it a rest already! Quite bitching about the music industry and "threatening" to leave it...if it's so repugnant, just leave already! Would anyone even notice?

Sounds to me like she's just turned into a bitter old woman, and that she's upset that Madonna can put out one album and accumulate more sales than poor Joni's had in her entire career. Glad to hear that Madonna, through her representatives, took the high road and refused to retaliate.

Don't get me wrong, she has some valid points (particularly about the records companies' treatment of musicians, and the lack of talent in many contemporary artists), but her approach makes it just look like sour grapes.

nasty nick#2
Nov 7th, 2002, 07:20 PM
u haven't seen the letterman show?

However, i kind of understand her. He always have 1-2 guests which he talk too and then there is a musician that sing in the end of the show and mostly he never interview them at all.

I watch one show just because of Pink, and she sang her song and didn't say a word after that. *yawn*

Hurley
Nov 7th, 2002, 08:08 PM
Most shows don't talk to the musical guest. She could have said that about Leno or O'Brien as well. She picked on Dave for God-knows-what-reason.

Anyway, she's an icon but she seems a bit out of touch with those comments.

Hurley
Nov 7th, 2002, 08:11 PM
And, by the way, it's not true in all cases...when Tori Amos was on, Dave chatted her up after her performance.

CHOCO
Nov 8th, 2002, 12:20 AM
As has been stated already, Joni is a music icon. Her views on the music industry are worth noticing.

Poe
Nov 8th, 2002, 12:33 AM
what a bitter old prune who needs a good lay

sartrista7
Nov 8th, 2002, 01:02 PM
Joni's a grumpy old hag, but everything she says is pretty much spot on. About Madonna, you can either see her as part of the problem or as a rare instance where a pop artist has risen above it. Madonna is incredibly talented - just not at music. She's a businesswoman who gets good writers and producers in.

CHOCO
Nov 8th, 2002, 05:35 PM
:)

timmbo
Nov 8th, 2002, 05:45 PM
Artists like this just kill me, because they talk about other artist for being such a public image, then why the hell did she allow Janet Jackson to sample some of her music and use some lyrics. Plz, do u honestly think that she didnt get money for this. And, oh GASP, these are the same fans that listen to Madonna. Plz Joni, if u are going to critize and be such an "artist" then use your own advice.

sartrista7
Nov 8th, 2002, 05:55 PM
timmbo...there's a difference between making music for the sake of the music which happens to make you money, and making 'music' for the sake of the money.

timmbo
Nov 8th, 2002, 05:57 PM
I agree Sartrista7 so I changed my post to fit what I was really trying to say.

CHOCO
Nov 8th, 2002, 07:13 PM
:)

G-Ha
Nov 8th, 2002, 07:36 PM
I agree with timmbo...Joni is very hypocritical. If I remember correctly, she had some participation in "Got til it's Gone", and at the very least, I know she said publicly she was pleased with Janet's song that contained her sample. Yet she turns around and says Madonna is "manufactured"? lol. Janet is manufactured in every sense of the word. And Joni talks about Madonna having the "right people" around her...Janet was born with the right people around her.

Somehow, I think had Madonna approached Joni to collaborate and/or use a sample, Joni's views on Madonna's talent would be much different.

JonBcn
Nov 8th, 2002, 07:50 PM
How the fuck can she say that about Madonna and then defend a bloodsucker like David Geffen?!

Too much herbal tea if you ask me.

Hurley
Nov 8th, 2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by sartrista7
everything she says is pretty much spot on

No, I said above where she was wrong about her criticism of Letterman. I doubt she's ever watched more than one of his shows in her life, so she wouldn't know. That's why she either needs to keep up with the Joneses or not make critiques about things she knows nothing about. She exaggerated in order to make her point, which made it untrue and therefore disproved her own argument.

MLF
Nov 8th, 2002, 07:54 PM
I don't get the Geffen quote Jon because about two weeks ago Joni really laid into him.

Madonna is great at what she does, but she is manufactured and she does hire the right people I think Joni's point is more about Madonna being viewed as a groundbreaking artist when in fact there were many before her who pathed the way. I mean without Debbie Harry I doubt if there'd be a Madonna.

Poe
Nov 8th, 2002, 07:58 PM
either way there are MILLIONS of people buying madonna's albums so obviously we want to hear her music! is she retarded? what difference does it make if it's not so profound that nobody can understand a bloody word she's trying to say cuz it's not clouded in wannabe-poet-metaphor, self-loathing, or have some pompous self-righteous message for the world!

if people want to hear madonna's music she is as legitimate an artist as anyone so joni needs to come down off her high horse and shut her arrogant trap :D

*snap snap*

MLF
Nov 8th, 2002, 08:00 PM
Joni is a great musician and is allowed her opinion. I'm glad to hear it. Plus she's the greatest ever Canadian musician to walk the planet!

Poe
Nov 8th, 2002, 08:01 PM
i think the greatest canadian musicians to walk the planet are Sarah McLachlan and Chantal Kreviazuk

JonBcn
Nov 8th, 2002, 08:02 PM
Except Bryan Adams.*









(* joke)

Hurley
Nov 8th, 2002, 08:02 PM
Joni IS a great musician and she should be aware that her opinions will be looked at with much interest. Which is why she should know what she's talking about before she espouses her beliefs.

No one bashes my Dave on my watch!

timmbo
Nov 8th, 2002, 08:08 PM
LOL @ JonBcn

Sometimes I wonder why artists, musicians, actors etc, get jealous or whatever and try to down play the accomplishments of others. It may just be human nature, but Joni should be proud of Madonna. A strong willed business woman that has "made" it in a male dominated industry. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, Madonna is and will always be consisdered a legend in pop, male or female.

vw43
Nov 8th, 2002, 08:26 PM
I bet Madonna is losing lots of z's over Joni's opinion of her...who gives a shit.

Helen Lawson
Nov 8th, 2002, 08:27 PM
Joni is just mad she never got to do a video with a lion wandering around her in Venice.

CellJr300
Nov 8th, 2002, 09:21 PM
I tend to agree with anybody who bashes Madonna. I have never really liked her, I just generally have a problem with someone who can't sing or act constantly thinking that they can sing and act.

Plus, once she butchered Don McLean's American Pie song, I really hated her.

CHOCO
Nov 9th, 2002, 12:08 AM
Joni is no different than many of the critics and segments of the public who constantly put down many pop and top selling artists by saying what they do is not real music. That they are manufactured by these record companies in record studios. Artist like N'Sync, Backsteet Boys, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Spice Girls and many others. This is nothing new.

BTW, I have a lot of respect and admiration for Madonna for she has stood the test of time.

JC
Nov 9th, 2002, 04:17 AM
it's about time some one speaks up! I don't like madonna, but i don't have anything against her either. As for Dave i hate that moron he tries to be funny and HE'S NOT i rather watch the tonight show with hell yeah Jay Leno.

Shane54
Nov 10th, 2002, 01:43 AM
I would really HATE to imagine what Joni thinks of BRITNEY!Damn...Madonna is multitalented and is an icon. Joni is a great songwriter but will never be the icon she is. I think that is why Joni made the comments "about a room full of stars". She is incensed that she is not a big star like Madonna.

sartrista7
Nov 10th, 2002, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by Hurley

No, I said above where she was wrong about her criticism of Letterman. I doubt she's ever watched more than one of his shows in her life, so she wouldn't know. That's why she either needs to keep up with the Joneses or not make critiques about things she knows nothing about. She exaggerated in order to make her point, which made it untrue and therefore disproved her own argument.

Yes, well, I wouldn't know because I've never watched an episode of this Letterman person either :p

Shane54, Joni is far more of an icon than Madonna will ever be.

Rae Q.
Nov 10th, 2002, 09:44 AM
LMAO@Joni Mitchell. Hello! Woodstock is long over!

YSL
Nov 10th, 2002, 09:50 AM
*sighs*

Oh well, cannae please everyone...

BCP
Nov 10th, 2002, 12:49 PM
There is a lot of truth in what Joni says. However, when god made Joni he was so busy wacking her with the sour old cow stick, he forgot to give her a spray with the eau d'manners and diplomacy.....................