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View Full Version : don't accuse Germans again (refering to LA)


saphir1
Nov 6th, 2002, 07:58 PM
HI!

I'm just looking Henin vs Dementieva live on TV and I have to say I'm really shocked about the audience. I've never seen such a small one. Last year, I was in Munich during all matches and the crowd was much better.

Have a great day,
Timo

raquel
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:01 PM
i think it is about 11am in l.a though, i am sure the evening sessions are sold out?

kiwifan
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:07 PM
I'm at work (in Los Angeles) watching the match on TV at lunchtime.

Most American Tennis fans are at work right now.

Looks like they are going to show most of this stuff live here in the states. Thats a major coup for the WTA.

Dementiava's legs don't appear to be a muscular as they used to be (not bulging, just solid). Makes her look a little awkward; jeez the camera is going right up her skirt on her return of serve.
My mind is a little in the gutter this afternoon.

Too bad ED isn't playing Schnyder right now.

2284
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:16 PM
Are you sure it's not just like the Aus. Open centre court where half of it is corporate seating (the lower section that always gets on TV), so it's sold out, but looks half-empty?

Note: If you want to see the real tennis fans @ the Aus. Open, you have to look close to the roof

gentenaire
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:33 PM
It's not half empty, it's 98% empty.

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:35 PM
Okay my take on this

If teh WTA tour fully knows that the stadium will be empty in day session, why not scrap day session altogether and fit three matches on the night, push the first round start on Monday. I know that location is a problem as they can't book Staple centre for so long, but surely finding space in some 8,000 seater stadium and push everything to night session is better than having 3 people in the crowd.

Master Cup can manage big crowd becuase they push everything to night, why not WTA tour, pathetic mangement any one of us can do better

Dawn Marie
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:39 PM
This match is boring as hell. Something is missing..from this match at the moment.

irma
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:39 PM
I thought that 10 years ago all matches where indeed in the night?
or I missed something since I only concentrated on steffi!

Double Fault
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:40 PM
lol, the cheesy sounding commentator just said the Staples Centre is like a morgue. No atmosphere at all! I doubt the cheesy one has ever been to a morgue actually. I don't care about the crowd etc. I love watching Justine play.

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:41 PM
Yes it is crap, they never learn from their mistake, who the hell will take a day off to see women tennis, let's be real here, people who watch are usaully business people and sponsors and they are not to camp out in the stadium to watch justine and Elena.
It is beyond my belief that they don't even consider having all night session,

raquel
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
This match is boring as hell. Something is missing..from this match at the moment.
i totally agree, this match is awful:rolleyes:

Serendy Willick
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:42 PM
I hope there is a bigger crowd in the night match. No offense but Henin, Dementieva, Clijsters and Rubin arent exactly household names in the US. If the crowd isnt jumpin for Monica/Davenport then there is a problem.

Double Fault
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:42 PM
I'm quite enjoying it. But, then I'm easily pleased. :)

kiwifan
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:43 PM
All JH has to do is keep it in play; ED is bringing nothing to the table. ED just missed long an easy winner. Too bad.

Dawn Marie
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:43 PM
Justine IS exciting to watch, but it's weird I don't actually see her playing an opponent right now. (it's like I'm watching her hit a wall or something).

ChrisGermany
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:49 PM
I think that the night matches will be success for sure. But the daytime is a tragedy and definetly better attendance here in Europe. Iīm quite satisfied about that after last years comments we got from the Americans :).

I wonder when we will see that format that the guys at the ATP have : Best 8 players. I donīt that the depth of the womenīs game will produce big upsets in the first round. If having just the top8, Jenn would get her Williams duels, Seles would play Jenn on day1 whatever, the Belgians would meet early, that would be a hit - but this is a negative surprise for all of us isnīt it.

Dahveed
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:51 PM
That's pretty pathetic for the Masters. Are the seats very expensive or what? The 11am thing is no excuse, i was in Bercy at that time last week and it was already pretty crowded.

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:52 PM
I agree with you ChrisGermany, in many ways, ATP should have adopt a 16 man field becuase of their depth and WTA should go to a round robin 8 women format. However, I never quite understand why they never do that, maybe there are otehr hidden obstacle which we don't knw

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 08:53 PM
I think the location as well to be honest, if it rotate like ATP did, and have it in BElgium, I guarantee the crowd is not as pathetic as this. In anyway, bring the tennis to the country who are actually excited about the women tennis,

ChrisGermany
Nov 6th, 2002, 09:05 PM
I think it has to do with the girls voting for more girls entering the field.

For TV and business reasons they should vote for more class matches of the top8 against each other for sure. Weīve doubles here as well every year. In the past, the guys didnīt have their 2 tournaments together. It was just the top8. Maybe the girls had too much of a tournament to go to just let the top8 in with all of the doubles stuff too going the normal way.

Hurley
Nov 6th, 2002, 09:14 PM
Aside from the Open, US tournaments will never be full during the day. Maybe some of the stars are super-popular here, but no one really wants to sit and watch a match.

What they should do, if they insist upon having the Masters indoors, is extend the event to a fortnight and have only night sessions.

"Topaz"
Nov 6th, 2002, 09:19 PM
The match is not that exciting, but I'm always thrilled to watch Henin. Her BH mechanics is so lovely that I've changed mine to match hers; Guga has a similar mechanics.

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 09:22 PM
The rpoblem with WTA is that they don't care about this kind of thing unless someone addresses it or it is hitting their revenue. They don't seems to be aiming high, don't seem to try bringing women tennis to a new level, they are just interested in breaking even, and boost about Venus and Serena. Look for WTA to crash and burn in 5 years if they don't do something about it

ttaM
Nov 6th, 2002, 09:24 PM
The match was very boring. And the atmosphere didn't help much.

I'm sure the stadium will fill up with the night matches, and day matches to follow later on in the tournament.

Picol
Nov 6th, 2002, 09:31 PM
I was going to ask someone about Justines play because her stats seem so bad. It all got answered in here without me having to ask :)

baleineau
Nov 6th, 2002, 09:38 PM
why did it move from madison square garden in the first place?

changing venues is a bad move initially, as it requires a lot of promotional work to get a brand new audience to recognise an event. it's the same problem with Fed Cup. Casual sports fans holidaying in the Canaries probably thought "WTF, what is this Fed Cup thing, who is this Daniela Hantuchova, sounds like it could be a laugh, but wait it costs $35 each for a day's play..........nah, let's head to the beach"

same in LA. unless you're a fan of WTA tennis and know about the significance of this event, you're hardly likely to take time off work and pay ticket prices to watch, Elena Dementieva versus Justine Henin :rolleyes:

Colin B
Nov 6th, 2002, 09:52 PM
Yes, the size of the crowd is deplorable - I've seen more people at a $25K Challenger! No wonder JH and ED are playing badly; they look as though it's just dawned on them they've turned up at the wrong venue on the wrong day.

The organisers should arrange for day session tickets to be distributed to schools, Tennis clubs or retired people at reasonable prices. If such an important tournament were taking place on my doorstep, I'd make sure I had a day off mid-week to support both the event and the competitors.

GoDominique
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:08 PM
Maybe sour grapes, but it's still the TRUTH after all.

And there aren't any more people now, although Chanda is playing. Ridiculous.

antonella
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:11 PM
It's not half empty.


It's half full.

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:13 PM
At least in Moscow there IS Atmosphere

and if you don't like what you are seeing there are always 3 other matches to see.

NO ATMOSPHERE
DEAD CROWD

and this is the showpiece event for the WTA ???

and the 2nd match is even worse

there's more dead people there than alive
and most of them are with the players or officials

GoDominique
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:13 PM
Yeah, 1 % of the arena is hall full. :rolleyes:

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:14 PM
I've seen 6 yr olds play better than what i have seen tonight (all 4 players included)

Picol
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:16 PM
Would it not be a better idea to wait until the final figures of the crowd at the end of the tournament instead of wiping it off as a failure at Session 1 Day 1?

GoDominique
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:17 PM
Yeah, but why ? Are they too tired ? Depressed by lack of support ? Annoyed by having to go to the US ? :confused:

Or is it the court ? The balls ? Dunno.

Dahveed
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:18 PM
Ah glad to see i'm not the only one to think those matches are also pathetic! :o I thought we were watching the best players of the world :eek:

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:18 PM
it's not day 1 of any tournament
its THE WTA CHAMPIONSHIPS

i say give the tourn to a new city each yr
Somewhere in Asia would be good or Australia

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:21 PM
I saw better quality matches at Nottingham last week of players ranked around 150-600

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:22 PM
I think the fact that those players came out and saw no one is there really depress them, I mean last year I saw amelie agaianst Sandrine in the match, it has no atmosphere, both of the player are not into it coz normally when they meet it is QF or SF and there will be a lot of people instead, they went to this supposing premier event of women tennis and saw a couple of ocaches clapping for their player, absolute pathetic

Picol
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:24 PM
Mr Eggy I do believe my little township could possible fit such a tournament in. I presume you will be coming as well?

I cannot comment on the standard of play as I have yet to see any of it. Would it be rude of me to suggest though it is Round 1 and it is highly unlikely that you would be or wish to be playing your best at this stage? If the Quarter Finals are 25% better The semi-finals 25% better again would the final not be good?

GoDominique
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:25 PM
LOL, and every minute there are less people. :rolleyes:

Wouldn't be surprised if they switch out the lights before match is over. :o

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:26 PM
GoDominque, criticising them is one thing but going over the top is another thing, I think you are enjoying all this coz of what happen in Munich last year, but then if you are class enough, you will have some limit, we are discussing what should be done and what is wrong with the event, not taking cheap shots at the event

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:27 PM
10K qualifying matches are 100% better with alot more atmosphere even with 1 person from each camp watching

Dahveed
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:27 PM
No sorry Picol i have to disagree here. This is the MASTERS, the(supposed) BEST 16 players of the world playing. First rounds should be better. I know i'd be disappointed if i had paid for that.

But i understand playing in such an atmosphere must not help. I'm sure even the players are bored.

GoDominique
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:30 PM
wongqks: Sorry to disappoint you, but as a tennis fan, I enjoy GOOD matches with GOOD atmosphere. And as neither is the case here, only thing left to 'enjoy' is the failure of the event. But believe, I would rather like to see better tennis.

And I'm willing to discuss what's wrong, but no one answered my questions.

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:32 PM
Why have 2 sessions :rolleyes:

There should only be one session starting at 3 or 4pm

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:35 PM
GoDominque, believe it or not, I believe you are a tennis fan, and I hope you realise that I am a tennis fan as well.

for a matter of fact I did answer your question, and some other people did, and you didn't response, so your excuse is not really valid.

But this is not the point, your comment about they should switch off the light means that you are disrespecting the players, it is unfair to claim that. I know I always attack you, but sometimes I think you should think about giving a mature answer before posting, coz frankly I believe you are a intelligent poster and do not need to downgrade yourself to senseless bashing unlike some other people who I have given up arguing against anymore

GoDominique
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:36 PM
Wongqks: That was a joke. Do you know what a joke is ? :rolleyes:

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:38 PM
GoDominque, you claim to have made a lot of jokes :rolleyes: from bashing Monica in Aus Open for signing autograph when Anabel Medina is injured to claiming Monica is rude during interview to this , well done :rolleyes:

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:39 PM
And don't even fool yourself in claiming that all your comments are not driven by what happen in Munich last year and is not from sour grapes :rolleyes:

GoDominique
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:39 PM
And regarding having 2 sessions: Can anyone explain to me why they have divided the 4 quarterfinals into 4 sessions ??? Are people supposed to pay a whole lot just to see one match which maybe doesn't even last an hour ???

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:41 PM
I think WTA tour is just plain stupid and don;'t know how to make business, if WTA tour knows the ticket is and will not be selling well in day session, how about offering some cheap tix to local schools and slash the price for day session.

Have 4 session in QF wiull bring disaster.I hope they are nto even thinking about having one session with one single and doubles, coz no one will be watching, even as a big tennis myself, i will not dish out 50 dollars for that

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:42 PM
and to think that the new guy governing WTA suppose to be a marketing guru :rolleyes:

GoDominique
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:43 PM
Wongqks: Why don't you try to post FACTS once in your lifetime ? I claimed Monica was rude during interviews, when was that ? Making up stupid things is obviously part of your personality. :rolleyes:

You are worthless to discuss with, and that's obviously (and sadly) the case with most obsessed Monica-fans.

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:44 PM
the ATP Masters doesn't have two sessions in Europe
you buy a ticket and you can watch all day

last week in Paris from morning till midnight.

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by GoDominique
Wongqks: Why don't you try to post FACTS once in your lifetime ? I claimed Monica was rude during interviews, when was that ? Making up stupid things is obviously part of your personality. :rolleyes:

You are worthless to discuss with, and that's obviously (and sadly) the case with most obsessed Monica-fans.

If that is the case then I rest my case.

PS you did in Aus Open, but I am not gonna dish it out coz frankly I ave wasted enough time talking to you, pathetic I hope you are 10 year old coz if you are any older than that I am sorry you are not acting your mental age.

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:46 PM
yeah I agree, I would love to see how the management in WTA actually works coz I think they have some problems in marketing, players relation etc.

ChrisGermany
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:47 PM
I think talking about the end of the event and judge it then is a bit of putting the problem away

Having in mind a capacity crowd on final day will wipe away all the trouble of the first 2 days.

An event like this is determined to create a certain atmosphere to end a season. If there is no atmosphere there is no enthusiasm among the players to fight. No reason for spectators to show up. I think itīs tragic that the events in Europe where better attended (Zurich Moscow Filderstadt Leipzig Linz) the early days of an event and it must be said and it must be said ALOUD.

To end a year in EUROPE where there is interest from day1 to the end and then giving the FINAL EVENT to the US creates a certain expectation. As far as I am concerned, this expectation comprises the WHOLE event not just the final days. It should produce an atmosphere that pushes players to do their best and cause upsets. If there is no atmosphere, players arenīt that euphoric to produce their best tennis !

GoDominique
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:48 PM
Oh, you are so lucky that the archives have been deleted, so you can claim whatever you want. Go on, let's see what else you can make up. It's fascinating.

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:51 PM
I agree with you ChrisGermany. I am not sure what usually happen in New York, but it seems like they always attract a good crowd there. I think that an event like this with mega bucks should have a better crowd than this from day one when the first ball is strike, it seems obvious that all players are beign affected by the lack of people, I hope it will get better but I cannot see it can be when tomorrow day session will be Dokic, Myskina, Dani etc. I hope WTA just hand some tix to schools and also in some shops or something, (this practice is common in Hong Kong concert, if the organiser know it is not full, they hand out free tix, to create atmosphere)

Picol
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Dahveed
No sorry Picol i have to disagree here. This is the MASTERS, the(supposed) BEST 16 players of the world playing. First rounds should be better. I know i'd be disappointed if i had paid for that.

But i understand playing in such an atmosphere must not help. I'm sure even the players are bored.

You may be right on that. I was just trying to put a positive light on what seems to be a dire situation judging by the posts.

Question.

Do you think the lop sided results have added to the doom and gloom?

Picol
Nov 6th, 2002, 11:00 PM
What i am trying to suggest is this.

Are the lop sided results partially due to the lack of crowd and atmosphere or is the lack of atmosphere partially due to the lop sided results?

wongqks
Nov 6th, 2002, 11:00 PM
More than anything I believe the doom and glom result in some lop sided match, the crowd did not try to pull the players together and teh players has no incentive of fighting

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 6th, 2002, 11:03 PM
they should have held it in Indian wells
at least the 80 yr olds have nothing to do

Picol
Nov 6th, 2002, 11:07 PM
I would still hold off wiping the event off until at least the night session has begun. If there are no crowds to see Lindsay Monica Patty and Venus then there are some major problems and I will announce that emergency surgery is not required as the patient has died :)

ttaM
Nov 6th, 2002, 11:16 PM
Fuck Munich
Fuck LA

Take it back to NY where the tournament should have stayed.

Picol
Nov 6th, 2002, 11:18 PM
That Rthymes :)

Monique
Nov 6th, 2002, 11:22 PM
The WTA is clearly missing the point here, while the ATP tries to reach for a worldwide audience and will hold its final Masters Championships in China, the WTA thought that playing it safe would guarantee public and excitement...nothing against the venue or LA, it is really sad to see the stadium pratically empty, but it looks like the WTA management does not believe in the international power of its own stars...:rolleyes:

endiadjendiadj
Nov 6th, 2002, 11:54 PM
I think the WTA and the ATP Tours should get together and hold one Championship tournament at the end of the year. Make it like a year ending grand slam. Men and women competing for their respective year ending tour crowns. They could also crown men's and women's doubles and mixed doubles year ending champions.

I think it would be awesome having the men and women together again. There aren't enough co-ed tournaments.

ttaM
Nov 6th, 2002, 11:58 PM
endi...

That doesn't sound like a bad idea. Though I doubt it would happen. Seeing Kim-def-Rubin 6-1, 6-2 is a pretty good indication why people don't want to fork over 2 days pay to see a 40 minute match. This is why I think at least the final should be best of 5. Just because you have the best 16 women in the world playing doesn't mean that each one of these women can challenge one another. But I also like the RR format someone suggested.

GoDominique
Nov 7th, 2002, 12:03 AM
The biggest problem is the format.

Many have said 'Elena D. doesn't deserve to be there'. That's wrong. She was top 16, so under the current rules, she deserved it. The question is: Are players ranked 13-16 deserving to be at a year-end championships for the best of the best ? The answer is no. Elena D. played badly the whole year. She just isn't championship-material right now. Same for Smashnova, Farina. They did well, but please, what are they doing here ?

Only the top 8 should go. Let them play in groups. 2 groups, top-players in every session.
Or at least top 12 and 4 groups of 3 players. Quarters, semis and final.

Under the current format, the players are way too afraid of losing. You lose, and it's goodbye. Stupid.

wongqks
Nov 7th, 2002, 12:06 AM
yeah they really shoudl think about adopting the 8 player format, especially when the discreptancy between top 10 to tohers are so high.

Also it is a joke that people like Elena who had a pretty miserable year.

Anna S with a virtually unheard of slams result this year can get in, I mean in the men, those players are fighting their hearts out to get into Master Cup, and here in LA, even Lindsay with okay result and only played like 8 tournament can get in as the 9th highest player, it is a shame, i hope something can be done

bobcat
Nov 7th, 2002, 01:58 AM
I also think the low attendance has a lot to do with the ticket packages available.

The 3 packages are:

1. All Event Package - seat for all 10 sessions.
2. Ace Package - seat for W-F(evening),Sa-M
3. Championship Package - seat for F(evening),Sa-M

I think the vast majority of people who buy packages will get either #2 or #3 because that's when most of the "good" matches will be played.

2284
Nov 7th, 2002, 02:00 AM
...but aren't the left-over tickets sold as single sessions?

Ted of Teds Tennis
Nov 7th, 2002, 02:33 AM
Picol:

I doubt the bad atmosphere was caused by the two blowout matches. After all, nobody could have known going in that the scorelines would end up as lopsided as they did.

tennis4life
Nov 7th, 2002, 02:33 AM
LA is a tremendously sucky sports town, IMO. I think the best place is MSG in NY. NY City has the glam, the night life, its closer to Europe and they have good sports fans.

t4l

Monique
Nov 7th, 2002, 03:11 AM
yeah they really shoudl think about adopting the 8 player format, especially when the discreptancy between top 10 to tohers are so high.

Also it is a joke that people like Elena who had a pretty miserable year.

Anna S with a virtually unheard of slams result this year can get in, I mean in the men, those players are fighting their hearts out to get into Master Cup, and here in LA, even Lindsay with okay result and only played like 8 tournament can get in as the 9th highest player, it is a shame, i hope something can be done

nothing new here...the depth might have improved over the years, but the difference between few top players and the rest is still abysmal...

bobcat
Nov 7th, 2002, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by untitled2284
...but aren't the left-over tickets sold as single sessions?

Yes, but the packages are a far better value. If I could go I would buy a package and not bother with a single session ticket, which is really quite expensive.

Picol
Nov 7th, 2002, 05:41 AM
I do not care about the crowds or lack of now

I do not care about the 2 easy results earlier on.

Lindsay and Monica made up for everything in a dire struggle.

Congratulations to Monica.

Patty is making Venus work and work hard.

All is forgiven.

We have a event :)

treufreund
Nov 7th, 2002, 07:02 AM
:rolleyes: @ Los Angelenos. If it had been in Cincinnati it would have had even better attendance and LA has like 8,000,000 people. :(

ChrisGermany
Nov 7th, 2002, 07:36 AM
You cannot close your eyes that a match Lindsay vs Monica didnīt get the stadium full at all :(

2284
Nov 7th, 2002, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by ChrisGermany
You cannot close your eyes that a match Lindsay vs Monica didnīt get the stadium full at all :(
:rolleyes: @ whoever's responsible for advertising this event