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View Full Version : Biggest ironies of the WTA?


rimon
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:38 AM
What do you think are the biggest ironies? Three immediately come to my mind:

1. Conchita Martinez wins only 1 slam title in her entire career, and it comes at Wimbledon.
2. Martina Hingis wins every single slam except the one that most thought she would definitely win - Roland Garros.
3. Na Li wins only 1 slam title in her entire career, and it comes at Roland Garros.

Jimmie48
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:43 AM
3. Na Li wins only 1 slam title in her entire career, and it comes at Roland Garros.

Did I miss the news about her retirement? If not then that's probably a rather premature statement...

Graftard
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:45 AM
Hingis winning Wimbledon was tremendous luck. A counterpuncher winning Wimbledon on fast grass against S&Ver :help:

Potato
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:22 AM
^ I always thought Hingis was an all-court player.

danieln1
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:23 AM
Did I miss the news about her retirement? If not then that's probably a rather premature statement...

This.

He missed the "so far"

Graftard
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:29 AM
^ I always thought Hingis was an all-court player.

:rolls: Hingis wasn't an all court player. She had no power in her serve or forehand to qualify. However smart she was on court, despite all her brilliance and point construction, the heart of her game was still defensive. A true all court player (Steffi Graf, Roger Federer) has no easily exploitable weaknesses; Hingis was vulnerable to being hit off court. That's why I am always annoyed when people are so quick to label a particular player "all court" when in reality only a handful of such players existed since the sport was invented.

LeonHart
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:33 AM
:rolls: Hingis wasn't an all court player. She had no power in her serve or forehand to qualify. However smart she was on court, despite all her brilliance and point construction, the heart of her game was still defensive. A true all court player (Steffi Graf, Roger Federer) has no easily exploitable weaknesses; Hingis was vulnerable to being hit off court. That's why I am always annoyed when people are so quick to label a particular player "all court" when in reality only a handful of such players existed since the sport was invented.

You're such a troll. Hingis a counter-puncher? You're TOO FUNNY. Why is Venus always cramping when she plays Hingis if Hingis is a counter puncher. Dumb troll is dumb.

Graftard
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:42 AM
You're such a troll. Hingis a counter-puncher? You're TOO FUNNY. Why is Venus always cramping when she plays Hingis if Hingis is a counter puncher. Dumb troll is dumb.

Hingis was a counterpuncher. Open up youtube and actually watch her matches. Who the hell cares about specific H2H?

Hingis was always prone to getting overpowered, especially on faster courts. A true all court player has no such problem.

LoveFifteen
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:50 AM
Here's an irony: the woman widely regarded as the greatest of all time got a major assist from a psychotic knife-wielding stan.

Hardiansf
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:01 AM
1. mauresmo at roland garros :tape:
2. venus = 7 slams only? :mad:
3. monica seles :sad:

Brad[le]y.
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:07 AM
Here's an irony: the woman widely regarded as the greatest of all time got a major assist from a psychotic knife-wielding stan.Is this really where you want this thread to go?

LeonHart
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:16 AM
Hingis was a counterpuncher. Open up youtube and actually watch her matches. Who the hell cares about specific H2H?

Hingis was always prone to getting overpowered, especially on faster courts. A true all court player has no such problem.

I said nothing about H2H...talk about delusional. Hingis is prone to getting overpowered...by a few elite players. However she is nothing close to a counter-puncher. How many times has Venus cramped against Coezter, Sanchez-Vicario? They are the true counter-punchers. Venus cramped up almost everytime she played Hingis, and on fast surfaces at that. So don't go rambling like you know Hingis AT ALL cause you don't and you look like a fool. BTW name me a counter-puncher that has won 5+ singles slam titles and 9+ doubles slam titles :lol:

Graftard
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:34 AM
I said nothing about H2H...talk about delusional. Hingis is prone to getting overpowered...by a few elite players. However she is nothing close to a counter-puncher. How many times has Venus cramped against Coezter, Sanchez-Vicario? They are the true counter-punchers. Venus cramped up almost everytime she played Hingis, and on fast surfaces at that. So don't go rambling like you know Hingis AT ALL cause you don't and you look like a fool. BTW name me a counter-puncher that has won 5+ singles slam titles and 9+ doubles slam titles :lol:

Chris Evert. The greatest counterpuncher of all time. Consistent. Solid backhand. Immense mental strength.

You seem to think that I use the term "counterpuncher" in a derogatory way, which isn't the case. I am simply not a fan of that particular play style.

Hingis, Henin, Evert, they were all defensive players at heart and it took a lot out of them to attack and play offensive tennis when it mattered and I admire them for it. However when it comes to pure entertainment, I always prefered Steffi Graf, Novotna, Navratilova for their offensive play.

That is why I am a fan of Kvitova right now. The cowardly grinding from the baseline, the moonballing and pushing left a bad taste in my mouth for quite a long time now. Once tennis recovers the lost art of attacking first strike style of play, the more exciting it will be for the game.

rimon
Jul 15th, 2011, 05:00 AM
Well, 11 replies and 0 actual answers. :rolleyes:

Although fair enough point about Li, put it down as "so far".

SM
Jul 15th, 2011, 05:22 AM
Hingis winning Wimbledon was tremendous luck. A counterpuncher winning Wimbledon on fast grass against S&Ver :help:
Was it luck that she was one match win from winning all four majors that year?:rolleyes:

Stonerpova
Jul 15th, 2011, 05:22 AM
Hingis was excellent on fast courts in her prime, so I don't see how that would help categorize her as a counterpuncher.

I think it's ironic that the Williams sisters got flack for years due to their part-time playing when they were struggling (think 04-06 excluding Venus' 05 Wimbledon) and now it's seen as a recipe for success, and the girls who have reached #1 playing packed schedules (Jankovic, Wozniacki) have A) failed to deliver on the big occassions and B) are now being criticized for playing too much

I also think it's kind of ironic that when Justine Henin retired for the time, the future of the game looked solid. We had Sharapova playing her best tennis ever, up-and-comers like Ivanovic, Jankovic, and Safina making names for themselves, and the Williams sisters starting to care again. Henin was never a fan favorite, so I figured her absence would be filled. Instead, the tour has been in disarray ever since then.

eDonkey
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:14 AM
Quickly finding a similar irony to the opening post in order to save the thread from going in very different direction:

Hana Mandlikova winning 4 slams and never been higher than no.3 in the World and slamless no.1s Safina, Jankovic and Wozniacki (two of them even getting the YE-no.1 spot

goat
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:17 AM
I am positive there is irony in the members of this forum.

bandabou
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:41 AM
:rolls: Hingis wasn't an all court player. She had no power in her serve or forehand to qualify. However smart she was on court, despite all her brilliance and point construction, the heart of her game was still defensive. A true all court player (Steffi Graf, Roger Federer) has no easily exploitable weaknesses; Hingis was vulnerable to being hit off court. That's why I am always annoyed when people are so quick to label a particular player "all court" when in reality only a handful of such players existed since the sport was invented.

Well Nadal would digress with you on that one. ;)

bandabou
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:42 AM
Hingis was excellent on fast courts in her prime, so I don't see how that would help categorize her as a counterpuncher.

I think it's ironic that the Williams sisters got flack for years due to their part-time playing when they were struggling (think 04-06 excluding Venus' 05 Wimbledon) and now it's seen as a recipe for success, and the girls who have reached #1 playing packed schedules (Jankovic, Wozniacki) have A) failed to deliver on the big occassions and B) are now being criticized for playing too much

I also think it's kind of ironic that when Justine Henin retired for the time, the future of the game looked solid. We had Sharapova playing her best tennis ever, up-and-comers like Ivanovic, Jankovic, and Safina making names for themselves, and the Williams sisters starting to care again. Henin was never a fan favorite, so I figured her absence would be filled. Instead, the tour has been in disarray ever since then.

:lol: Indeed..and even more ironic: they outlasted all the other peers who lived, breath, drank, slept, for tennis.

moby
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:39 AM
Chris Evert. The greatest counterpuncher of all time. Consistent. Solid backhand. Immense mental strength.

You seem to think that I use the term "counterpuncher" in a derogatory way, which isn't the case. I am simply not a fan of that particular play style.

Hingis, Henin, Evert, they were all defensive players at heart and it took a lot out of them to attack and play offensive tennis when it mattered and I admire them for it. However when it comes to pure entertainment, I always prefered Steffi Graf, Novotna, Navratilova for their offensive play.

That is why I am a fan of Kvitova right now. The cowardly grinding from the baseline, the moonballing and pushing left a bad taste in my mouth for quite a long time now. Once tennis recovers the lost art of attacking first strike style of play, the more exciting it will be for the game.Henin was a counterpuncher? What?

I think Hingis was a counterpuncher when you took time away from her - but it's all relative, who isn't a counterpuncher when they're overpowered? - and other than the physically most imposing, virtually everyone gets overpowered their fair share, and Hingis was small and nonathletic compared to her peers. Hingis's ability at the net, her penchant for taking the ball early, and her constructive play on the court definitely puts her in not-defensive category. Really, the only thing she lacked was power.

debby
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:42 AM
don't try moby, he tries to hide his true identity lmao it's obvious he is a well-known banned poster.

LUVMIRZA
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:23 AM
:rolls: Hingis wasn't an all court player. She had no power in her serve or forehand to qualify. However smart she was on court, despite all her brilliance and point construction, the heart of her game was still defensive. A true all court player (Steffi Graf, Roger Federer) has no easily exploitable weaknesses; Hingis was vulnerable to being hit off court. That's why I am always annoyed when people are so quick to label a particular player "all court" when in reality only a handful of such players existed since the sport was invented.

didnt u use to have a blue coloured country flag bfore??:confused::rolleyes: and a different user name:tape::help:

tennisfan5
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:01 PM
Monica lost all the weight AFTER she retired :hysteric::sad:

doooma6816
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:34 PM
Chris Evert. The greatest counterpuncher of all time. Consistent. Solid backhand. Immense mental strength.

You seem to think that I use the term "counterpuncher" in a derogatory way, which isn't the case. I am simply not a fan of that particular play style.

Hingis, Henin, Evert, they were all defensive players at heart and it took a lot out of them to attack and play offensive tennis when it mattered and I admire them for it. However when it comes to pure entertainment, I always prefered Steffi Graf, Novotna, Navratilova for their offensive play.

That is why I am a fan of Kvitova right now. The cowardly grinding from the baseline, the moonballing and pushing left a bad taste in my mouth for quite a long time now. Once tennis recovers the lost art of attacking first strike style of play, the more exciting it will be for the game.

really?:rolleyes: then watch some matches from USO for example how she could overpowered Williams.

Martina wasn't counterpuncher too...she was great on fast as well.

Smitten
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:43 PM
Nothing new here. Graf stans still pressed by Legend Hingis.

tennisfan5
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:56 PM
Capriati won 3 slams, but only 11 other titles. Serena has 13 slams, but "only" 24 other titles.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Capriati won 3 slams, but only 11 other titles. Serena has 13 slams, but "only" 24 other titles.

The bigger irony is Serena not being able to win a single tier3/4 title.

The Dawntreader
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:05 PM
Henin was a counterpuncher? What?

I think Hingis was a counterpuncher when you took time away from her - but it's all relative, who isn't a counterpuncher when they're overpowered? - and other than the physically most imposing, virtually everyone gets overpowered their fair share, and Hingis was small and nonathletic compared to her peers. Hingis's ability at the net, her penchant for taking the ball early, and her constructive play on the court definitely puts her in not-defensive category. Really, the only thing she lacked was power.

And conviction. Especially post pomp, from 2000 onward. Her forehand lost it's consistency, and she was unable to hit through it and take it as uber-early as she once did.

I always felt Hingis's game was deceptively hinged around confidence, and her game never looked the same without it.

killerqueen
Jul 15th, 2011, 05:46 PM
Elena D couldn't win a Grand Slam, despite having a chance four times every year, but managed to win Olympic Gold, despite it happening once every four years. :)

LCS
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:09 PM
Hingis winning Wimbledon was tremendous luck. A counterpuncher winning Wimbledon on fast grass against S&Ver :help:

BS. Stop trolling.

No one gets to all slam finals in a year (winning 3 of them) out of luck. kthxbye

JCTennisFan
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:50 PM
Hingis progressed into a counter-puncher, I can kinda see that. Well a more accurate desrciption would be she progressed into more of a Fabrice Santoro type crafty player (which is nothing to be ashamed of... Santoro has always had mad respect from the other players...). But in the late 90s, she wasnt a counter-puncher... she was an all courter. At that time her power was acceptable, especially off the Backhand wing, and her serve was acceptable as well. But her game largely flatlined, if not slowly regressed, as she aged... which made her start to rely more on her craftyness and speed/defense as Williams/Capriati style players came into form.

Sammo
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:53 PM
Hingis deserved her Wimbledon title, she's the best lobber ever, and outlobbed Novotna (serve and volley) in the final.

Sammo
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:57 PM
Here's an irony: the woman widely regarded as the greatest of all time got a major assist from a psychotic knife-wielding stan.

When did Navratilova hire a hitman and who did he try to kill? Evert? If you're talking about Graf she's actually the 2nd greatest of all time.

Stonerpova
Jul 15th, 2011, 11:04 PM
Here's an irony: the woman widely regarded as the greatest of all time got a major assist from a psychotic knife-wielding stan.

Tragedy and irony are not the same thing

Sammo
Jul 15th, 2011, 11:55 PM
Tragedy and irony are not the same thing

Well it definately wasn't much of a tragedy for Steffi

Graftard
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:09 AM
Nothing new here. Graf stans still pressed by Legend Hingis.

Remind me again, who was reduced to tears in 1999 RG final? Who had superior H2H? Slams? YEC's? Olympics? Titles? weeks #1?

There are no Steffi Graf fans that are "pressed" by Hingis because they are not in the same league...

Graftard
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:16 AM
really?:rolleyes: then watch some matches from USO for example how she could overpowered Williams.

Just because a certain player can play aggressive in a match of their life, it doesn't make them offensive...Henin's game is defensive by nature, thus her biggest success coming at RG.

It took a lot out of Henin to consistently attack, required her game to click 100% and when she lost confidence in matches, she always started defending more or dropping the ball short.

In fact if you listen to her interviews over the years, she'd always comment how she "must always play aggressive" over and over as if she needed to step over herself to do so. Her coach constantly was trying to introduce attacking tennis more into her game.

Martina wasn't counterpuncher too...she was great on fast as well.

Counterpuncher doesn't mean bad on fast surfaces. Hewitt, for example, was classic counterpuncher and preferred faster surfaces.

SAISAI-GOAT
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:26 AM
surprised nobody say Princess Karolina being ranked #1 :shrug:

Sammo
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:37 AM
Serena Williams letting someone stalk her and not killing him

Sean.
Jul 16th, 2011, 02:35 AM
Hingis winning Wimbledon was tremendous luck. A counterpuncher winning Wimbledon on fast grass against S&Ver :help:

Maybe we have different definitions of 'counter puncher' because I definitely wouldn't call Martina one. I've seen far too many matches when she's controlling the play.

I agree that Henin was naturally defensive and forced herself to become aggressive as part of a conscious over time. Is that's what you were saying. :unsure:

Martian Jeza
Jul 16th, 2011, 02:53 AM
Na Li winning Rolland Garros.

Petra Kvitova ( Loads of new fans glory hunts ) winning Wimbledon !

Oh Schiavone at Roland Garros 2010.

Graftard
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:03 AM
Maybe we have different definitions of 'counter puncher' because I definitely wouldn't call Martina one. I've seen far too many matches when she's controlling the play.

I agree that Henin was naturally defensive and forced herself to become aggressive as part of a conscious over time. Is that's what you were saying. :unsure:

A counterpuncher can dictate and play aggressive, I don't know why people seem to think why counterpuncher=pusher. Hingis' game was defensive at heart, she was no big hitter or offensive baseliner, BUT she could still be aggressive with her backhand or attack the net.

Henin evolved from pure counterpuncher with to all courter, reached every slam final at least twice and won titles on all surfaces. Of course her poor serve (mainly due to height and lots of motion changing over the years) prevented her from winning Wimbledon.

Melange
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:06 AM
British players are soo bad.

Russians are so many headcases. In Soviet Russia, they would have been sent somewhere to harden up.

Sean.
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:13 AM
A counterpuncher can dictate and play aggressive, I don't know why people seem to think why counterpuncher=pusher. Hingis' game was defensive at heart, she was no big hitter or offensive baseliner, BUT she could still be aggressive with her backhand or attack the net.

You see to me a counter puncher is someone who isn't often the front foot in rallies. Where they differ from pushers is, instead of just getting the ball back into play, they redirect the pace of their opponent or use the angles their opponent gives them to counter attack and switch defence to offence. Hingis who was often making her opponent run all over the place and attacking the net doesn't fit into that category for me.

Ayumilove
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:14 AM
Na Li winning Rolland Garros.
Petra Kvitova ( Loads of new fans glory hunts ) winning Wimbledon !

Oh Schiavone at Roland Garros 2010.

How is that ironic? :rolleyes:
She was by far the best player in the draw.

Keegan
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:28 AM
How is that ironic? :rolleyes:
She was by far the best player in the draw.

Um, have you seen her play? No one would think her game would win her RG. Her game is traditionally better suited to faster surfaces.

goldlion
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:36 AM
The biggest irony is the recent No.1s suck at big times great at MM tournaments - enough said.

Ayumilove
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:42 AM
Um, have you seen her play? No one would think her game would win her RG. Her game is traditionally better suited to faster surfaces.

of course. she is the reason i got interested in the wta in the first place. her game has changed a bit this year. less erratic, but slightly less powerful. still, she will never get overpowered

Graftard
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:51 AM
Um, have you seen her play? No one would think her game would win her RG. Her game is traditionally better suited to faster surfaces.

Not with her serve. In fact I think slower surfaces suit her better, where she can get more returns into play against big servers and use time the surface allows to set up her flat groundstrokes. Her breakthrough was at AO after all, which is slow hard. It was not unfathomable that she can win RG.

By the way, it's not the first time flat striker won RG. Seles hit flat and her best surfaces were slow hard and clay where she could set up her returns and open up angles.

LeonHart
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:58 AM
I think it's so funny that Graftard is the only one in this thread that thinks Hingis is a "counter-puncher" :haha::haha:

Graftard
Jul 16th, 2011, 04:05 AM
I think it's so funny that Graftard is the only one in this thread that thinks Hingis is a "counter-puncher" :haha::haha:

Hingis has claimed she is a counterpuncher in several interviews. In fact I remember in one match against Clijsters in AO where she called Clijsters more aggressive player than herself and Kim is mainly a grinder herself.

And the term isn't meant to be derogatory, it's a playing style, I don't know why Hingistards are trying to make her into some kind of aggressive all courter or offensive baseliner when she wasn't that at all.

SM
Jul 16th, 2011, 04:42 AM
counter puncher is Wozniacki.

The difference..
Hingis often hit the ball extremely early by standing close to the baseline (or inside it) in order to take reaction time away from her opponent because she did not have sufficient power to hit winners past her opponents.

she never camped behind the baseline and just reacted like Woz or ASV....she dictated, she was rarely the one doing most of the running, watch what she did to Pierce in aus open final 1997 and Pierce was hitting just as hard as any girl on tour today

englando08
Jul 16th, 2011, 04:43 AM
I like this thread was supposed to be about ironies and is instead a discussion on what defines a counter-puncher lol.

SM
Jul 16th, 2011, 04:44 AM
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/10/1061/KVML000Z/posters/martina-hingis.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Martina-Hingis-Posters_i990250_.htm&h=450&w=360&sz=43&tbnid=KCfCJeoKSWpIYM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=75&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmartina%2Bhingis%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3 Du&zoom=1&q=martina+hingis&hl=en&usg=__zKIDdGHr9oITnSReptCqnXVdiIA=&sa=X&ei=8RUhTrL3HYOdmQXv2LWSAw&ved=0CDQQ9QEwAQ&dur=2903

BlueTrees
Jul 16th, 2011, 04:45 AM
Why the hell isn't Graftard banned? It's so obviously Claycourter. :spit:

LeonHart
Jul 16th, 2011, 04:46 AM
Hingis has claimed she is a counterpuncher in several interviews. In fact I remember in one match against Clijsters in AO where she called Clijsters more aggressive player than herself and Kim is mainly a grinder herself.

And the term isn't meant to be derogatory, it's a playing style, I don't know why Hingistards are trying to make her into some kind of aggressive all courter or offensive baseliner when she wasn't that at all.

Again, why are players like Pierce and Venus cramping when they play counter puncher Hingis? Don't they just stand in 1 place and dictate play? :lol:

rimon
Jul 16th, 2011, 06:05 AM
I like this thread was supposed to be about ironies and is instead a discussion on what defines a counter-puncher lol.

Thanks. I don't understand why it has been hijacked.

doktor
Jul 16th, 2011, 06:45 AM
:lol: Ya'll have been listening to Alanis.

There's a real dearth of irony in this thread about irony.

Oh the irony.

Melange
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:07 AM
:lol: Ya'll have been listening to Alanis.

There's a real dearth of irony in this thread about irony.

Oh the irony.

I know Jeza has some trouble grasping the concept, but mine were ironic.

KBlade
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:38 AM
I thought the biggest irony was Hingis writing off Graf as being "old and slow" and saying that she game is "much quicker now" when Hingis herself was driven out of the sport by power players.

By the early 2000's, Hingis was starting to be simply hit off court, and because the general power of her opponents on the tour, there were many matches where she was simply struggling to get her racket on the ball, let alone being able to work the point, mix it up and confuse her opponents with spins, and as a result she really couldn't do much to stop her loses once her opponents found their range.

pla
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:56 AM
Just because a certain player can play aggressive in a match of their life, it doesn't make them offensive...Henin's game is defensive by nature, thus her biggest success coming at RG.

It took a lot out of Henin to consistently attack, required her game to click 100% and when she lost confidence in matches, she always started defending more or dropping the ball short.

In fact if you listen to her interviews over the years, she'd always comment how she "must always play aggressive" over and over as if she needed to step over herself to do so. Her coach constantly was trying to introduce attacking tennis more into her game.



Counterpuncher doesn't mean bad on fast surfaces. Hewitt, for example, was classic counterpuncher and preferred faster surfaces.

All this is true but Hingis' game was very aggressive in the beginning, it's only latter in her career that she became more defensive on court- she was kind of forced to. While Henin was indeed much more defensive in the beginning but can we say that she was a counterpuncher only because of that? She was a very aggressive player all the time during her good years. It may not have been very natural to her but she still executed this game plan almost all the time. So I can't count her as a counterpuncher just because she was naturally defensive, what matters is what game you bring on court.

roelc
Jul 16th, 2011, 09:03 AM
ironic:

* kim being considered mentally strong now, while before she was "mentally weak"
* "choker" mauresmo not having time to choke (because of injury/illness kim and justine) in her first grand slam victory
* the nr-1 ranking in general
* schiavone who didn't even have a title a few years ago, winning a grand slam, while other (considered better) players (no need to call names here) didn't/don't
* wta killing itself with this new roadmap and ristrictions

Yoncé
Jul 16th, 2011, 02:22 PM
Radwanska's racquet breaking at the AO :lol:

Irony - she doesn't hit hard.

Beat
Jul 16th, 2011, 02:29 PM
:rolls: Hingis wasn't an all court player. She had no power in her serve or forehand to qualify. However smart she was on court, despite all her brilliance and point construction, the heart of her game was still defensive. A true all court player (Steffi Graf, Roger Federer) has no easily exploitable weaknesses; Hingis was vulnerable to being hit off court. That's why I am always annoyed when people are so quick to label a particular player "all court" when in reality only a handful of such players existed since the sport was invented.

no need to :rolls: being an all court player and being a defensive player is no contradiction. and both graf and federer had/have exploitable weaknesses. maybe not "easily", but they're there. every player has.

Beat
Jul 16th, 2011, 02:40 PM
Monica lost all the weight AFTER she retired :hysteric::sad:

Capriati won 3 slams, but only 11 other titles.

good ones - in a thread that got derailed so quickly by the aptly named graftard.

hingisGOAT
Jul 16th, 2011, 02:52 PM
I thought the biggest irony was Hingis writing off Graf as being "old and slow" and saying that she game is "much quicker now" when Hingis herself was driven out of the sport by power players.

By the early 2000's, Hingis was starting to be simply hit off court, and because the general power of her opponents on the tour, there were many matches where she was simply struggling to get her racket on the ball, let alone being able to work the point, mix it up and confuse her opponents with spins, and as a result she really couldn't do much to stop her loses once her opponents found their range.

This is such a load of BS. Hingis was playing more powerful opposition her whole career, including when she was winning Slams. And the opponents she really struggled with didn't out-hit her but usually OUTLASTED her. You could try actually watching the matches, you know...

Fantasy Hero
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:34 PM
Pironkova getting to a slam SF with that FH :rolls:
Zvonareva losing two slam finals in 2 days :bowdown:
Schiavone having 3 WTA titles, one of them is a slam :lol:
Venus being the active player with more titles on clay/best W/L ratio (don't remember read it here on TF) which ever it is still:spit:

moby
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:40 PM
That the least explosive game on the tour belonged to one Anna Smashnova (who to heighten the irony, actually married a Pistolesi).

See also: "Isn't it funny how Cara Black is not black but she's from Africa?" :oh:

propi
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:45 PM
That the least explosive game on the tour belonged to one Anna Smashnova (who to heighten the irony, actually married a Pistolesi).

See also: "Isn't it funny how Cara Black is not black but she's from Africa?" :oh:
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9c9ghlwMJ1qdpdh8o1_400.png
Mean girls image never gets old :cool:

Fantasy Hero
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:46 PM
^ :lol:


irony of WTA the best tournaments of the tour were all dismissed of reduced (Amelia Island/Zurich/Linz...) :worship:

VishaalMaria
Jul 16th, 2011, 03:57 PM
Again, why are players like Pierce and Venus cramping when they play counter puncher Hingis? Don't they just stand in 1 place and dictate play? :lol:

I know Venus cramped in their US Open match 1999 and then in Warsaw 2006, but anywhere else?

it-girl
Jul 16th, 2011, 04:55 PM
Venus Williams made it to the finals of both the Australian Open and French Open, losing only to Serena and still has not won either tournament.

Dav.
Jul 16th, 2011, 05:37 PM
irony of WTA the best tournaments of the tour were all dismissed of reduced (Amelia Island/Zurich/Linz...) :worship:

Yes. :yeah:

I will never understand getting rid of Amelia Island. Wonderful atmosphere, many dedicated fans and great matches every year that I attended.

VeeJJ
Jul 16th, 2011, 10:51 PM
Elena D couldn't win a Grand Slam, despite having a chance four times every year, but managed to win Olympic Gold, despite it happening once every four years. :)

This is the best one I've read.

Break My Rapture
Jul 16th, 2011, 11:28 PM
Radwanska's racquet breaking at the AO :lol:

Irony - she doesn't hit hard.
:lol:

KBlade
Jul 17th, 2011, 08:21 AM
This is such a load of BS. Hingis was playing more powerful opposition her whole career, including when she was winning Slams. And the opponents she really struggled with didn't out-hit her but usually OUTLASTED her. You could try actually watching the matches, you know...

Hingis stated herself that towards the end of her first career she was struggling to even get a hit on the ball in the first place. But clearly you know better :rolleyes:

And yes, Hingis did play powerful opposition in her first career, however, the tour was not comprised of the majority of players who based their games off a powerful and aggressive ground game like it was in the 2000's. In the 90's, there was still a vast number of players who based their games on variety, serve and volley and defence. Hingis could generally cruise over these types of players because she could out play them, not out-hit them. Heck, even the most powerful and aggressive players of that era, Seles and Graf, had weaknesses Hingis could exploit.

Hingis could always seek refuge in Steffi's backhand and take advantage of Monica's fluctuating physical shape. The 2000's brought more complete players in terms of game, who could hit winners from both wings, serve and move well, which meant even if she did manage to work the point into a winning situation, there was always the threat that one of her opponents, such as the WS, Davenport or Capriati could hit a winner. Her serve was also far more vulnerable to attack, as many players possessed both effective forehands and backhands with which they could punish attackable serves, rather than slicing or blocking them back into play.

AnomyBC
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:16 AM
1. mauresmo at roland garros :tape:
2. venus = 7 slams only? :mad:
3. monica seles :sad:

How is any of that ironic? :confused:

AnomyBC
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:20 AM
ironic:

* kim being considered mentally strong now, while before she was "mentally weak"
* "choker" mauresmo not having time to choke (because of injury/illness kim and justine) in her first grand slam victory
* the nr-1 ranking in general
* schiavone who didn't even have a title a few years ago, winning a grand slam, while other (considered better) players (no need to call names here) didn't/don't
* wta killing itself with this new roadmap and ristrictions

Again, most of this isn't ironic. The only one of these that's ironic is the Schiavone thing.

AnomyBC
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:22 AM
^ :lol:

irony of WTA the best tournaments of the tour were all dismissed of reduced (Amelia Island/Zurich/Linz...) :worship:

Were those really the best tournaments on the tour? Like better than Wimbledon and the US Open and stuff? :confused:

AnomyBC
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:25 AM
Pironkova getting to a slam SF with that FH :rolls:
Zvonareva losing two slam finals in 2 days :bowdown:
Schiavone having 3 WTA titles, one of them is a slam :lol:
Venus being the active player with more titles on clay/best W/L ratio (don't remember read it here on TF) which ever it is still:spit:

The first 2 things here are definitely not ironic.

AnomyBC
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:32 AM
How is that ironic? :rolleyes:
She was by far the best player in the draw.

Actually, the Li Na winning the French Open thing was only thing that person mentioned that actually was ironic. It's ironic because that's supposed to be her worst surface. And it's also highly questionable to say that she was the best player in the draw. Keep in mind that was after she had just lost in the first round of a bunch of tournaments, so between that and the fact that it was on clay, I don't think a lot of people were considering her to be a major contender to win the tournament.

AnomyBC
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:36 AM
Here's an irony: the woman widely regarded as the greatest of all time got a major assist from a psychotic knife-wielding stan.

This isn't ironic either.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:53 AM
Myskina's only slam title coming at the French Open, considering her record there before (and after) winning it. If I recall correctly her record on clay wasn't that great either, she'd only won a Tier IV title on it and didn't do much elsewhere.

tennis-insomniac
Jul 17th, 2011, 12:42 PM
Hingis mocked Mauresmo about her homosexuality....ironically, they later become girlfriends :rolleyes:

wouldn't it be wonderful, if it could actually happen ? :lol:

I'd pick Henin got injured in the tournament that is the reason for her comeback, and consequently forced her to retire for a second time from professional career :sad:

longtin23
Jul 17th, 2011, 01:01 PM
Peng didn't get any title

AnomyBC
Jul 17th, 2011, 01:41 PM
Peng didn't get any title

Unless Peng means "Girl who wins many titles" in Chinese, then that's not ironic :)

The Witch-king
Jul 18th, 2011, 01:09 PM
don't try moby, he tries to hide his true identity lmao it's obvious he is a well-known banned poster.

he's barely trying and that's the sad part

The Witch-king
Jul 18th, 2011, 01:15 PM
How is any of that ironic? :confused:

Again, most of this isn't ironic. The only one of these that's ironic is the Schiavone thing.

The first 2 things here are definitely not ironic.

This isn't ironic either.

You do realise that almost no where in this thread is the word 'ironic' used in its correct sense, right?

Fantasy Hero
Jul 18th, 2011, 01:27 PM
Were those really the best tournaments on the tour? Like better than Wimbledon and the US Open and stuff? :confused:

GS are ITF events :hatoff:

C.MARTINEZ
Jul 18th, 2011, 01:38 PM
1. Conchita Martinez wins only 1 slam title in her entire career, and it comes at Wimbledon.


What´s the irony of this?? she reached another 2 Grand Slam finals (F.O 00 - A.O 08)

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sammo
Jul 18th, 2011, 01:39 PM
GS are ITF events :hatoff:

They count as WTA titles not ITF

Lucemferre
Jul 18th, 2011, 01:41 PM
What´s the irony of this?? she reached another 2 Grand Slam finals (F.O 00 - A.O 08)

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The irony is that clay was her best surface but she won wimbledon, her only title on grass beating navratilova:tape:

Fantasy Hero
Jul 18th, 2011, 01:42 PM
They count as WTA titles not ITF

sure, but if you are asked which is the best WTA tournament/event you can't say it's Wimbledon or whatever :p

Melange
Jul 18th, 2011, 10:58 PM
What´s the irony of this?? she reached another 2 Grand Slam finals (F.O 00 - A.O 08)

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

:lol: That was actually one of the most ironic title wins ever and she beat the greatest grass court player. You just dont get it. This thread is epicfail because most of TF are anal retentives who dont actually have a sense of humour.

Anabelcroft
Jul 18th, 2011, 11:44 PM
Steffi Graf wins her last GS title after Martina Hingis won her last GS!

Nobody expected that!

Sammo
Jul 19th, 2011, 01:01 AM
Steffi Graf wins her last GS title after Martina Hingis won her last GS!

Nobody expected that!

:sobbing::sobbing::sobbing::sobbing::sobbing:
Martina's still on time though given that old players who aren't 1/8 the player that she is have recently won Grand Slams :)

Anabelcroft
Jul 19th, 2011, 01:57 AM
:sobbing::sobbing::sobbing::sobbing::sobbing:
Martina's still on time though given that old players who aren't 1/8 the player that she is have recently won Grand Slams :)

Well,have to agree with you!

But really,at that time she was number 1 player and nobody expected that kind of irony!

It seems that loss at RG '99 changed her...maybe that was one of the reasons she never ever won a GS after AO '99.

AnomyBC
Jul 19th, 2011, 02:29 AM
You do realise that almost no where in this thread is the word 'ironic' used in its correct sense, right?

Yeah, that's what I was attempting to point out :)

AnomyBC
Jul 19th, 2011, 02:30 AM
What´s the irony of this?? she reached another 2 Grand Slam finals (F.O 00 - A.O 08)

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Conchita Martinez winning Wimbledon is one of few things mentioned here that actually IS ironic.

rimon
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:57 AM
You do realise that almost no where in this thread is the word 'ironic' used in its correct sense, right?

Some have been relevant, but yes, unfortunately, many here evidently have no idea what ironic means.

rimon
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:58 AM
The irony is that clay was her best surface but she won wimbledon, her only title on grass beating navratilova:tape:

Exactly. For her to win 1 GS, and it come at Wimbledon, is possibly the most ironic thing to ever happen in women's tennis. Even more so by beating Navratilova in the final.

Novichok
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:03 AM
Some have been relevant, but yes, unfortunately, many here evidently have no idea what ironic means.

Including yourself?:tape:

rimon
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:27 AM
Including yourself?:tape:

Whereabouts?

Novichok
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:33 AM
Whereabouts?

What do you think are the biggest ironies? Three immediately come to my mind:

1. Conchita Martinez wins only 1 slam title in her entire career, and it comes at Wimbledon.
2. Martina Hingis wins every single slam except the one that most thought she would definitely win - Roland Garros.
3. Na Li wins only 1 slam title in her entire career, and it comes at Roland Garros.


How are any of these 3 ironic?

rimon
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:39 AM
How are any of these 3 ironic?

1. - already explained.
2. Martina Hingis is expected to win Roland Garros by many experts, and today, people say that if she were to come back, RG would be her best chance to win a slam. Yet, she has won every slam except RG.
3. Clay is thought to be Li's worst surface, and her only slam comes on that surface.

Graftard
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:49 AM
3. Clay is thought to be Li's worst surface, and her only slam comes on that surface.

Clay is slow which favors Li, who can set up her strokes and open angles. Clay also helps her return and masks her own crappy serve. She is like Seles who benefits from slow surfaces, despite being aggressive and hitting flat.

Li's breakthrough tournament was AO (SF+F), which is slow, high bouncing hard court.

Logically it wouldn't be crazy to suggest her game wouldn't translate to another slow surface, especially in today's era lacking CC specialists and nobody being able to slide.

On a quick surface against a big server, she is toast as she can't return so many balls back and struggles to hold her own mediocre serve.

Novichok
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:54 AM
1. - already explained.
2. Martina Hingis is expected to win Roland Garros by many experts, and today, people say that if she were to come back, RG would be her best chance to win a slam. Yet, she has won every slam except RG.
3. Clay is thought to be Li's worst surface, and her only slam comes on that surface.

I guess those would be considered situational ironies though very weak.