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View Full Version : Kimiko Date-Krumm accused Venus Williams of cheating at Wimbledon


J_Migoe
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:12 AM
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-06-23/sports/29710619_1_krumm-venus-williams-williams-sisters

Did you guys read this article? She said that Venus was mis-tossing the ball deliberately during her service games to unsettle Kimiko. Do you agree?

goat
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:17 AM
Kimiko never used the word cheating.

Sammo
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:18 AM
Venus does it all the time, and she usually apologizes, I don't think she does it to unsettle her opponent...

Potato
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:22 AM
May be possible, but highly unlikely. Venus always has trouble with her ball toss. (and her serve in general)

Kimiko was probably just frustrated with the hard fought loss and needed something to blame it on, that is all.

Tripp
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:24 AM
Kimiko has enough class not to accuse anyone of cheating, and Venus doesn't really need to use such a lame "cheat" to beat anyone, when she can beat any player out there by just playing her game.

Graftard
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:25 AM
Gamesmanship plain and simple. Cancelled ball toss should instantly be a second serve. That way it will force all the crappy servers to work on their ball toss not cancel it 100 times a match.

ViceUltramontain
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:31 AM
I remember that Venus did it often during that match and was booed by the crowd for it at some point but it was probably because she was tensed, not on purpose.

hingisGOAT
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:48 AM
If the 20 second rule was actually enforced by the (spineless) chair umpires, Venus (along with Hantuchova and Sharapova) would lose every single service game due to point penalties. I suspect this is why V & MS don't get any crowd support anywhere on earth; spectators are fucking bored out of their minds

Graftard
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:51 AM
If the 20 second rule was actually enforced by the (spineless) chair umpires, Venus (along with Hantuchova and Sharapova) would lose every single service game due to point penalties. I suspect this is why V & MS don't get any crowd support anywhere on earth; spectators are fucking bored out of their minds

That too.

If umpires had guts they'd put a stop to endless time wasting between points both on WTA and ATP tours. Watching Sharapova take a minute between serves is infuriating.

Mary Cherry.
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:52 AM
If the 20 second rule was actually enforced by the (spineless) chair umpires, Venus (along with Hantuchova and Sharapova) would lose every single service game due to point penalties. I suspect this is why V & MS don't get any crowd support anywhere on earth; spectators are fucking bored out of their minds

Venus v Hantuchova at Eastbourne this year, ridiculously windy conditions :facepalm: It was a nightmare.

danieln1
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:56 AM
And Ivanovic, with that messy all over the place toss???? Worse than the hand, I guess! :lol:

Vartan
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:59 AM
Maria Sharapova gets no support from anywhere around the world?

Sammo
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:04 AM
So... no more Saint Kimiko :oh:

debopero
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:15 AM
Sour grapes. Venus has always had trouble with her ball toss.

vswfan
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:22 AM
The author should be killed... What a fabricated story. Kimiko didnt "accuse" anyone needless to say he thinks the Spirlea incident was Venus' fault.

pedropt
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:25 AM
Oh please... :yawn:

LeonHart
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:02 AM
Venus was doing the same thing to throw Kim off @ US Open last year.

AkademiQ
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:04 AM
I guess :rolleyes:

Slutiana
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:34 AM
Venus was doing the same thing to throw Kim off @ US Open last year.
So many people are stupid and love their drama.

She has problems with her toss - sorry she doesn't hit every single toss as Ivanovic does, regardless of whether they are going into the crowd or not. But judging by Ivanovic's serve, I'd say she's doing the right thing.

Solitaire
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:44 AM
I remember that Venus did it often during that match and was booed by the crowd for it at some point but it was probably because she was tensed, not on purpose.

They sure did and it's sad. Part of Wimbys charm was the fair crowds now they're just as rude as the rest. :sad:

This story is a bit old and I was surprised no one brought it up during Wimbledon. It's no secret Venus has problems with her toss and often catches it. As sweet as Date is she was accusing Venus of doing it on purpose. It just makes her look like a sore loser which is disappointing. :o

Graftard
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:51 AM
They sure did and it's sad. Part of Wimbys charm was the fair crowds now they're just as rude as the rest. :sad:


Compared to crowds like FO, who cheer only their players and boo everyone else, Wimbledon crowds really stand out because of their neutral approach to any player.

However, clear gamesmanship like cancelling ball toss several times per game isn't tolerated and rightfully so. (no, I don't care that a particular player has a shitty ball toss. You either learn to serve properly or don't come out to play). If Wimbledon officials had a spine, they'd ban grunting, time wasting and stop letting players like Anci constantly reserve after a wayward ball toss. The game would be better off.

gc-spurs
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:59 AM
Maria Sharapova gets no support from anywhere around the world?
Yup she's so unpopular eh?
The author should be killed... What a fabricated story. Kimiko didnt "accuse" anyone needless to say he thinks the Spirlea incident was Venus' fault.

:lol::lol:

Solitaire
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:06 AM
Compared to crowds like FO, who cheer only their players and boo everyone else, Wimbledon crowds really stand out because of their neutral approach to any player.

However, clear gamesmanship like cancelling ball toss several times per game isn't tolerated and rightfully so. (no, I don't care that a particular player has a shitty ball toss. You either learn to serve properly or don't come out to play). If Wimbledon officials had a spine, they'd ban grunting, time wasting and stop letting players like Anci constantly reserve after a wayward ball toss. The game would be better off.

Wimby crowds are FAR from neutral anymore. But any crowd outside of a DC is better behaved than RGs ones. :p

I don't think catching your ball toss is gamesmanship if it's not done on purpose. Venus has a history of catching her toss. Which is what any good tennis player-coach will tell you to do. So you're preference would be for the server to hit the bad ball toss and double fault?

Moveyourfeet
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:40 AM
Kimiko has enough class not to accuse anyone of cheating, and Venus doesn't really need to use such a lame "cheat" to beat anyone, when she can beat any player out there by just playing her game.

Pironkova disagrees with you...



Thrice :oh:

Moveyourfeet
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:41 AM
Venus was doing the same thing to throw Kim off @ US Open last year.

Against Kim she needs all the help she can get :o

it-girl
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:18 AM
People will jump on any bandwagon. Venus is known for being one of the players who do not use gamesmanship and her matches speak for themselves. Venus has been known for years now to struggle with her serve and catch the ball or let it drop. This is nothing new. I don't know why people want to comment on this like Venus just started doing something she always does. Not to mention the fact that Venus just returned from being injured, surely no one expected her to be at her best with so little match play.

If Kimiko did say that, then she has lost all respect from me because that is just a bold face lie.

égalité
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:04 AM
Please. "Accused of cheating?" The author completely twisted her words. Who the hell is publishing this garba--oh, the NY Daily News. http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/icon_shake.gif

Navratil
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:43 AM
Date-Krumm said this in such a demure, pacific voice that most of the assembled international press didn't seem to realize the weight of her complaint. :D :D :D

goat
Jul 15th, 2011, 09:00 AM
The author should be killed... What a fabricated story. Kimiko didnt "accuse" anyone needless to say he thinks the Spirlea incident was Venus' fault.

I concur!

Petkorazzi
Jul 15th, 2011, 09:16 AM
People think that Date is some kind of angel just because she's 40. :shrug: She's quite the brat herself.

Shvedbarilescu
Jul 15th, 2011, 09:30 AM
People think that Date is some kind of angel just because she's 40. :shrug: She's quite the brat herself.

Posts like this only succeed in making yourself look ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Kworb
Jul 15th, 2011, 09:34 AM
She complimented Venus. She said it was clever of her to use this tactic. :shrug:

In any case I think tossing the ball = serving. Within the rules you could now toss the ball and catch it 10 times in a row and then suddenly hit the serve on the 11th toss.

Stamp Paid
Jul 15th, 2011, 09:38 AM
The author should be killed...damn :lol:

Daniel K
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:16 AM
People think that Date is some kind of angel just because she's 40. :shrug: She's quite the brat herself.

Screams bitterness at her beating your faves :wavey:

Maria rocks
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:20 AM
What cos she never won??? PaTHETIC!!! Its like when players stamp their feet over Masha's screaming they only do it when they lose!!!!!

C. Drone
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:59 AM
whatever KDK said or not, cancelling the balltoss so many times is not good or fair at all.

So many people are stupid and love their drama.

She has problems with her toss - sorry she doesn't hit every single toss as Ivanovic does, regardless of whether they are going into the crowd or not. But judging by Ivanovic's serve, I'd say she's doing the right thing.

what? :scratch: VIP cancelling toss as many as she fistpumps. She is just so bad, all her matches would last til end of eternity with cancelling every failed balltoss.

KBlade
Jul 15th, 2011, 11:10 AM
whatever KDK said or not, cancelling the balltoss so many times is not good or fair at all.

what? :scratch: VIP cancelling toss as many as she fistpumps. She is just so bad, all her matches would last til end of eternity with cancelling every failed balltoss.

If it wasn't fair, it would be against the rules.

Venus's is quite well known for sometimes struggling with and catching the ball-toss. She constantly catches her ball toss and has done so for most of her career, so it's pretty silly for Kimiko to suggest that it was a "tactic" as it's something Venus does on a regular basis in all her matches.

That said, this reliability of this source is dubious, so I can't really judge Kimiko, but in the scenario that she had said that, I would put it down more to sour grapes, and false accusations.

Sombrerero loco
Jul 15th, 2011, 11:14 AM
dont worry kimiko, you will destroy her next time

mauresmofan
Jul 15th, 2011, 11:28 AM
So... no more Saint Kimiko :oh:

READ the article - she never once said anything about cheating she said Venus is always watching where her opponent is on the return and she laughed which the tabloid ran with BUT if you ever watch Kimiko do any interview she is always very smiley and laughs quite a bit as her english isn't great. Had she believed Williams was cheating then there wouldn't have been such a respectful handshake between the two at net - actions always speak louder than (made up) words!

Mynarco
Jul 15th, 2011, 11:40 AM
Mod needs to delete this thread ASAP :o

Beat
Jul 15th, 2011, 12:04 PM
Venus does it all the time, and she usually apologizes, I don't think she does it to unsettle her opponent...

but it is utterly annoying. not that she's the only one who does this, mind you.

Beat
Jul 15th, 2011, 12:06 PM
People think that Date is some kind of angel just because she's 40. :shrug: She's quite the brat herself.

:facepalm: WTF are you talking about?

Dokic-Fan
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Kimiko may be right. Venus does that astonishingly often and I always think how a world class player like Venus can have such big problems with the ball toss, even if it isn't windy... :shrug:

JN
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:58 PM
No.

spartanfan
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:23 PM
Catching your ball toss is within the parameters of the rules of play. Players do it all the time, men and women. KDK should know this and be over it. To even bring it up sounds like sour grapes.

VishaalMaria
Jul 15th, 2011, 02:31 PM
I'm glad Venus is doing Venus and playing tennis on her terms (regardless of whether it's a good display or not).

More players should be confident enough to toss the ball until they get a right toss instead of being so self conscious and caring what other people (spectators/umpires) think and hitting a wayward toss into the net.

davidmario
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:37 PM
Even tho I am a fan, she does it all the time and it annoys everybody. But then i have to tell you guys that I am constantly thinking about tossing the ball right when i play myself and I mistoss it every second time. It is so weird I suffer from this now for 2 months and i cannot seem to cure it. Maybe she has the same problem? :shrug:

Smitten
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:41 PM
Did Kimiko lie?

That's why after Kim beat Venus for the millionth time in a row last year at the US Open she barely looked at her during the handshake. She does that shady shit all the time.

Ferg
Jul 15th, 2011, 05:14 PM
Never thought Id see the Wimbledon crowd so exasperated but they definitly were during that match regarding the ball toss, groaning a lot whenever she did it. If it was the French Open...

The Witch-king
Jul 15th, 2011, 05:44 PM
It's annoying but if it means she's gonna come up with a quality serve afterwards then I'm cool with it. FYI Venus had great serve percentage stats at Wimbledon and Eastbourne so maybe she should do it more :lol:

Here is Kimiko's exact quote anyway make of it what you will


Q. Why do you think Venus was able to win today?
KIMIKO DATE-KRUMM: Yes, of course, she knows how to win, how to play very close the match.
Always she feel pressure or she doesn't want to lose the point. Always she concentrate through focus. Was first service in. Not only speed, it's on the corner. So it was very, very difficult to break her serve for me.
And, uhm, of course compared to her best condition, I think little bit she need to use some more matches. But she play I think it was good, yeah. She's a great player. She's very clever, she smart. For example, when she toss up the serve, then she always watching where I move to, backhand or forehand. She just toss up, and then she watching where I'm standing, the return positions, I think. So she's very clever. Mentally also is very strong. Most key point, most important point, she never mistake.


http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=72198

The Witch-king
Jul 15th, 2011, 05:48 PM
Even tho I am a fan, she does it all the time and it annoys everybody. But then i have to tell you guys that I am constantly thinking about tossing the ball right when i play myself and I mistoss it every second time. It is so weird I suffer from this now for 2 months and i cannot seem to cure it. Maybe she has the same problem? :shrug:

I'm the same but I've noticed that when I don't think about it I usually serve a lot better.

BTW have you noticed that Venus's ball toss is way better than in the past or atleast the ones she hits. Back in the day she would hit just about any toss no matter how wayward it was. I guess sheer confidence and a loose arm willed them in :lol: and fortunately she was never as bad as ivanovic.

new-york
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:04 PM
OMG she unexpectedly picked up the other strawberry to disturb the fruit salad.

:facepalm:

bindaboo
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:20 PM
The author should be killed... What a fabricated story. Kimiko didnt "accuse" anyone needless to say he thinks the Spirlea incident was Venus' fault.
That,s right: Kill the messenger!Don,t they have freedom of the press where your from? Disgusting!

Marionated
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:23 PM
It's annoying but if it means she's gonna come up with a quality serve afterwards then I'm cool with it. FYI Venus had great serve percentage stats at Wimbledon and Eastbourne so maybe she should do it more :lol:

Here is Kimiko's exact quote anyway make of it what you will


Q. Why do you think Venus was able to win today?
KIMIKO DATE-KRUMM: Yes, of course, she knows how to win, how to play very close the match.
Always she feel pressure or she doesn't want to lose the point. Always she concentrate through focus. Was first service in. Not only speed, it's on the corner. So it was very, very difficult to break her serve for me.
And, uhm, of course compared to her best condition, I think little bit she need to use some more matches. But she play I think it was good, yeah. She's a great player. She's very clever, she smart. For example, when she toss up the serve, then she always watching where I move to, backhand or forehand. She just toss up, and then she watching where I'm standing, the return positions, I think. So she's very clever. Mentally also is very strong. Most key point, most important point, she never mistake.


http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=72198

I don't see anything wrong with this :shrug:

AcesHigh
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:24 PM
It's not shady.... it's just because she has a terrible toss.

Venus is one of the most professional tennis players on tour. She does not bitch or moan on court, she has a great demeanor. Crowds love her.

debopero
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:29 PM
Okay having read Kimiko's quote I take back my sour grapes comment. Unless she was being passive-aggresive, she said nothing wrong :lol: .

bindaboo
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:39 PM
I concur!
Another poster that want's to kill the messenger;can see why their from the Land of under.

bindaboo
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:51 PM
Mod needs to delete this thread ASAP :o
See you don,t approve of:Freedom of the press;well at least you don't want to kill the messenger.

Serenita
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:04 PM
See you don,t approve of:Freedom of the press;well at least you don't want to kill the messenger.
Shut up, already.
If you wanna talk about freedom go to the Political section.

cn ireland
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:15 PM
The author of this article is making more of it than what Kimiko actually said.

We all know that Venus does this alot.

Mrs. Peel
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:00 PM
Yeah, Venus does it a lot and she is not the only who does it. NEXT!

JCTennisFan
Jul 15th, 2011, 09:14 PM
I dont see the problem with catching tosses?? As long as you arent trying to do it intentionally then I fail to see the problem? The wind can take it off, nerves can mess with it... there are lots of things that can affect the toss. Of corse we arent talking about club players though, we are talking about professional players, so I guess it should be a little more strict.

But on Sharapova.... her time inbetween points is her trying to focus... it doesnt have anything to do with her trying to throw anyone off or abuse anything. She is an extremely regmented player, and she has to keep her structure or it throws her consistency off. I can understand it completely, especially considering her toss is INSANELY high and is more apt to waver because of that.

Slutiana
Jul 15th, 2011, 09:26 PM
I'm the same but I've noticed that when I don't think about it I usually serve a lot better.

BTW have you noticed that Venus's ball toss is way better than in the past or atleast the ones she hits. Back in the day she would hit just about any toss no matter how wayward it was. I guess sheer confidence and a loose arm willed them in :lol: and fortunately she was never as bad as ivanovic.
But if you remember, back in the day she did used to spray DFs like nobodys business, and that's because she never caught her toss. Now she catches her toss and rarely hits a million DFs in a match. Funny that. :lol:
I don't see anything wrong with this :shrug:
Okay having read Kimiko's quote I take back my sour grapes comment. Unless she was being passive-aggresive, she said nothing wrong :lol: .
Personally I interpreted it (and particularly the description of her speaking in Japanese) as her definitely being shady - as if she's really saying 'oh, it's very clever of her to do that. Of course I would never lower myself to anything like that, but if that's what it takes for her to win then good for her. When it comes to important points, her toss is always fine. It's very clever (laughs)'. :lol:

LightWarrior
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:04 PM
Nothing wrong with catching your ball toss, it absolutely doesn't hinder the returner. What Zvonareva, Bartoli and the likes do when they receive serve is blatant bad sportmanship.

Viennalover
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:10 PM
I never heard about this news until I watched this artical right now.
So it wasn't a big deal for Kimiko neither.

Although I do feel many players do use fake Medical timeout and fake bathroom break etc
only to stop Kimiko's momentum.
Since Kimko plays with rhythm, sometimes suspention do affect her play.
Sometimes not, but if there's a chance why not trying, that's nowaday players sprit, right?

I won't say who but someone even took a bathroom break in the middle of set.
Something like Kimiko's lead 4-0. And I think Kimiko hates those idea.
So maybe Kimiko thought Venus was one of them, but there's no violation of rules, why not?
But I can't respect players doing something else to win besides playing tennis. :rolleyes:

TheHangover
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:25 PM
it's possible, i always found strange that pofessional tennis players like venus and especially ivanovic have to toss the ball two, sometimes three times before serve and this not one or two times per set but four times per game!!! i'm a club player but i do this rarely

Cakeisgood
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:27 PM
Sharapova has sped up significantly to be fair.

The weird thing about Vee is that she catches a lot of good tosses and hits a lot of shitty ones. It's really quite strange.

Viennalover
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:41 PM
One more thing,
I think many people remember the match with Venus that
"KIMIKO WON'T USE CHARANGE SYSTEM" even when eveyone think she should have.

I mean She won't claim until she's 100% sure that it was a wrong call.
So if Kimiko's claiming something, I thihk the percentage that Kimiko's right is so high.
You know, Japanese people is not a claimer type,
I think if she really said so, she kind a had a confidence.

Althouogh the article quite seems picking holes on a great game.
Maybe something like sound bites that distorting Kimiko's intention. :rolleyes:

edificio
Jul 15th, 2011, 10:50 PM
Catching your ball toss is not cheating. In fact, there are several players who should catch their bad tosses rather than follow through with their serves. Also, watching where the other person is moving while you are throwing your toss, certainly would help make it a bad one. But what I don't understand is why it is cheating to observe where your opponent is moving while you toss? Everyone takes a good look at their opponent before serving. Kimiko's remark is weird. The newspaper that reported this only wants to make a sensational article, and if such an article includes the name of Williams, more page views (just ask Chris Chase).

In any case, ball-toss catchers are not cheaters. Ridiculous.

The Witch-king
Jul 15th, 2011, 11:17 PM
Sharapova has sped up significantly to be fair.

The weird thing about Vee is that she catches a lot of good tosses and hits a lot of shitty ones. It's really quite strange.

I'm sure you can tell what a good or bad toss is for Venus sitting at your computer screen watching some grainy stream

Cakeisgood
Jul 16th, 2011, 05:19 AM
I'm sure you can tell what a good or bad toss is for Venus sitting at your computer screen watching some grainy stream

Oh I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that we lived in a world devoid of televisions and god-forbid high definition :tape:

The Kaz
Jul 16th, 2011, 05:23 AM
Oh I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that we lived in a world devoid of televisions and god-forbid high definition :tape:

Maybe he can't afford these luxuries so that is why he is bitter :oh:

KBlade
Jul 16th, 2011, 06:47 AM
Oh I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that we lived in a world devoid of televisions and god-forbid high definition :tape:

Please, he was simply trying to point out that what looks like, or seems like a good toss to some players or viewers does not always equate to a good toss for the player serving.

For example, Stosur tosses the ball far, far behind her head because it suits her motion, and she likes to kick her serve. I'm highly doubtful that a similiar toss combined Venus's service motion would make for an effective serve.

Each player prefers the ball in a different spot with what suits their service action. So, quit being patronising and insulting simply because your argument was proven incorrect.

earthcrystal
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:21 AM
Stop the presses, this just in:

Michael Jordan gives birth to alien baby...Scientists all baffled!




(It must be true, I read it in the National Enquirer or Star or Daily Post!)

Zvonapova
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:36 AM
The author should be killed... What a fabricated story. Kimiko didnt "accuse" anyone needless to say he thinks the Spirlea incident was Venus' fault.

Wow. That's a little harsh don't you think? :lol:

starin
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:45 AM
Please, he was simply trying to point out that what looks like, or seems like a good toss to some players or viewers does not always equate to a good toss for the player serving.

For example, Stosur tosses the ball far, far behind her head because it suits her motion, and she likes to kick her serve. I'm highly doubtful that a similiar toss combined Venus's service motion would make for an effective serve.

Each player prefers the ball in a different spot with what suits their service action. So, quit being patronising and insulting simply because your argument was proven incorrect.

http://i.imgur.com/TYvnH.gif

ex hopman
Jul 16th, 2011, 11:05 AM
totally this article twisted her exact words...

The Witch-king
Jul 16th, 2011, 11:36 AM
Please, he was simply trying to point out that what looks like, or seems like a good toss to some players or viewers does not always equate to a good toss for the player serving.

For example, Stosur tosses the ball far, far behind her head because it suits her motion, and she likes to kick her serve. I'm highly doubtful that a similiar toss combined Venus's service motion would make for an effective serve.

Each player prefers the ball in a different spot with what suits their service action. So, quit being patronising and insulting simply because your argument was proven incorrect.

Thank you. That's exactly what I had in mind.

Another thing is that it's pretty much impossible to tell whether an aborted ball toss is good or bad from the angle we watch tennis on TV. For example, if a player tosses the ball slightly too far ahead or not far ahead enough when the player hadn't even hit it how could you possibly know??
Maybe he can't afford these luxuries so that is why he is bitter :oh:

Yes I'm so poor that naturally I'm bitter about Venus's ball toss :werirdo:

pav
Jul 16th, 2011, 11:50 AM
needless to say he thinks the Spirlea incident was Venus' fault.
It was

timafi
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:49 PM
ffs you are quoting the NYDY?:rolleyes::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: this is a Murdoch trah.Shame on you:(::no::no::no:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

dsanders06
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:55 PM
Stop the presses, this just in:

Michael Jordan gives birth to alien baby...Scientists all baffled!

Who?

Another thing is that it's pretty much impossible to tell whether an aborted ball toss is good or bad from the angle we watch tennis on TV.

Tell that to Ivanovic's fans :oh:

wayitis
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:59 PM
One more thing,
I think many people remember the match with Venus that
"KIMIKO WON'T USE CHARANGE SYSTEM" even when eveyone think she should have.

I mean She won't claim until she's 100% sure that it was a wrong call.
So if Kimiko's claiming something, I thihk the percentage that Kimiko's right is so high.
You know, Japanese people is not a claimer type,
I think if she really said so, she kind a had a confidence.

Althouogh the article quite seems picking holes on a great game.
Maybe something like sound bites that distorting Kimiko's intention. :rolleyes:

fair post... I think that what Kimiko meant is that Venus sometimes tosses the ball out but looks at the opponent's reaction and position before actually hitting the serve... this split second when she takes her eyes off the ball might cause a lot of reasonably good tosses go "bad" because she had to look the opposite way, and Venus is now a seasoned veteran that knows she does not have to appease everyone.. I would suspect that Venus even launches some fake tosses just to test the reaction of the opponents, all players have their little tricks and supersticions while serving and returning... even though you cannot call that "cheating" per se, some players, even though not vocal about it, might get extremely annoyed by the smallest or not so small things, and all of a sudden, a too many caught toss, higher pitched grunt, frequent hair or racquet fidgeting and so on become part of what they perceive tactics...

marineblue
Jul 16th, 2011, 01:03 PM
Pretty low strategy. Good that Kimiko pointed that out. Although I hihgly doubt that tennis authorities will have enough guts to stop her from doing that. No wonder that she used such cheap tactics. It would do her "brand" no good if she lost to a 40-year old.

laurie
Jul 16th, 2011, 01:03 PM
I didn't actually see this match but the article is clearly trying to stir something up. I wouldn't take too much notice of it.

marineblue
Jul 16th, 2011, 01:15 PM
Maybe he can't afford these luxuries so that is why he is bitter :oh:

That would be the case if he was as materialistic as you. :help::lol:

*JR*
Jul 17th, 2011, 12:52 AM
If the 20 second rule was actually enforced by the (spineless) chair umpires, Venus (along with Hantuchova and Sharapova) would lose every single service game due to point penalties. I suspect this is why V & MS don't get any crowd support anywhere on earth; spectators are fucking bored out of their minds

Yeah, but Mah-ree Pierce had a long routine with bounces etc. between serves, and the fans still loved her; they pretty much treat Dani well too. Mah-ree used to drive the Peppermint Puzzle crazier than she already was :help: with this, and it contributed to the results: http://www.itftennis.com/womens/players/headtohead.asp?player=20000349&opponent=20006783

vixter
Jul 17th, 2011, 01:11 AM
It was

How could it be Venus fault when Spirlea said in her interview that she was walking towards Venus because she wanted to see if she was gonna move. Sounds pretty deliberate.:devil:

Yes this thread should be deleted, the article was crap and spreads a false rumour.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jul 17th, 2011, 04:13 AM
It's within the rules, get over it

matty
Jul 17th, 2011, 05:09 AM
Gamesmanship plain and simple. Cancelled ball toss should instantly be a second serve. That way it will force all the crappy servers to work on their ball toss not cancel it 100 times a match.

and if it's super windy?

Raiden
Jul 17th, 2011, 05:26 AM
I knew it!

Astute observers always knew that that faux toss of Veenas was deliberate (for the dummies: clue #1: it happened too often. Clue #2: Venus wasn't like this long time ago) but we thought it would sound outrageous to admit that openly and moan about it.

I regard this as another silly minor "distract the opponent" trick the same league as Djoker's ball-bounce and Nadal's asswipe.

Raiden
Jul 17th, 2011, 05:38 AM
Gamesmanship plain and simple.But I still regard incessant loud shrieking as a better badder form of gamesmanship than this.

KBlade
Jul 17th, 2011, 08:38 AM
I knew it!

Astute observers always knew that that faux toss of Veenas was deliberate (for the dummies: clue #1: it happened too often. Clue #2: Venus wasn't like this long time ago) but we thought it would sound outrageous to admit that openly and moan about it.

I regard this as another silly minor "distract the opponent" trick the same league as Djoker's ball-bounce and Nadal's asswipe.

If you've ever watched Venus play, you would know that this is not a tactic. Venus's serve is extremely momentum based. You often see notice that in games where she gets the toss right and gains momentum, she can easily bang down a couple of huge serves and the game can be over in an instant.

If find it very hard to believe Venus would use this as a tactic, as it affects her own momentum and her overall service effectiveness. It's quite similiar to how Clijster plays. She plays quickly and based on momentum, so when the momentum is with her and she's playing well, a couple of games can be over extremely quickly.

Conversely, when it's not her day, she can also lose games and sets extremely quickly as well.

*JR*
Jul 17th, 2011, 01:41 PM
Gamesmanship plain and simple. Canceled ball toss should instantly be a second serve. That way it will force all the crappy servers to work on their ball toss not cancel it 100 times a match.

What do you and others think of the compromise of limiting the # of unpenalized catches to X number per game, set, or match? (If they DO this, there might well be a "wind exemption", where any toss in wind ova X mph/kph @ "typical toss level" doesn't count against the limit).




I mean you try serving in wind that results in pictures like this. :help:

http://images.teamtalk.com/08/06/800x600/Patty-Schnyder-French-Open-2008-rd-4-hair_915525.jpg

RenaSlam.
Jul 17th, 2011, 04:50 PM
Not classy, Kimiko. :eek:

JamieOwen3
Jul 17th, 2011, 05:44 PM
Venus has one of the best first serves in the history of the wta! She does not need to pull sh*t like that deliberatly. When she double faults most of the time she should have actually caught the toss :shrug: venus has had a problem with her toss for a long time and i think it's just getting worse as she gets older?