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Maria rocks
Jul 12th, 2011, 04:32 PM
Likely to win a slam? Or is she now going down hill fast?

Wert.
Jul 12th, 2011, 04:58 PM
Slam in 2012

Jane Lane
Jul 12th, 2011, 05:18 PM
Can you stop making these threads? First Vika, now Vera :facepalm: And it would help if you spelled her name right.

TheHangover
Jul 12th, 2011, 05:18 PM
down hill

Alejandrawrrr
Jul 12th, 2011, 05:20 PM
Her best chances passed(Not that she really had much of a chance in either of those finals.) Still, she did maximize her potential. A few years back I would NEVER have guessed she'd make back to back Wimbledon and US Open finals.

danieln1
Jul 12th, 2011, 05:22 PM
Zvonerava?

theFutureisNow
Jul 12th, 2011, 05:24 PM
Downhill fast.

I'm predicting her to finish 9th this year. It's still possible she can drop out of the top 10.

Vera will probably never win a slam.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 12th, 2011, 05:31 PM
Who is Zvonerava? Not that it really matters, her real twin Zvonareva is just as useless, probably. A slam?? Haha, no. Zvonareva is going downhill fast and will be ranked outside the top five by the end of the year.

pwayne
Jul 12th, 2011, 05:36 PM
Zvonareva is on the downward path like Jankovic, Bammer and Peer who managed to squeeze out one year where they played above their normal ranking.

Temperenka
Jul 12th, 2011, 05:43 PM
Unless she is in good form at a slam where the draw absolutely dissolves, she will not win a slam.

I simply can't see her beating Serena, Kim, Petra, Maria, Na, or Venus in the latter stages of a slam.

She did well to take advantage of weak draws last year and get a good ranking, but I doubt she will be top 10 after this year is over. Too many other players are playing well now.

Mary Cherry.
Jul 12th, 2011, 06:06 PM
Vera Zvonareva will bounce back and win Pattaya City 2012.

nevetssllim
Jul 12th, 2011, 06:09 PM
Who is Zvonerava? Not that it really matters, her real twin Zvonareva is just as useless, probably. A slam?? Haha, no. Zvonareva is going downhill fast and will be ranked outside the top five by the end of the year.

Zvonareva has Grand Slams in doubles and mixed doubles.

GoofyDuck
Jul 12th, 2011, 06:11 PM
Need Sergey back first...and dump Karen Krotov...

With Sergey she got: F-F-SF

with Karen: fail-fail

RobinT83
Jul 12th, 2011, 06:14 PM
I like her game, she's a pretty good player when she's on but she will never win a GS, almost unfortunately.

backhandsmash
Jul 12th, 2011, 06:29 PM
I like her game, she's a pretty good player when she's on but she will never win a GS, almost unfortunately.

Yeah, she's clearly good enough to win one, but so far her brain has refused to take part when in finals. Maybe that's why she ditched sergey, but what do I know.

killerqueen
Jul 12th, 2011, 06:39 PM
I think she may be on the way down sadly. :( It's a shame, because I really think she had a chance in the US/Aus runs she had. I think this US Open is probably the very last chance she'll get, but I think it's already a longshot.

Excelscior
Jul 12th, 2011, 06:46 PM
I'm not smart/in tune enough to predict what's going to happen to her the next year. But she does seem like she's in a distinct funk after the Australian Open. Such a contrast from her Wimby, US Open, Australian Open runs the past year (Sergy or no Sergy). Let's see?

Steven.
Jul 12th, 2011, 07:29 PM
2010 was an awesome year for her, and I don't think anybody saw it coming. She's just falling back to where she 'belongs'. No slam for her. :shrug:

Alejandrawrrr
Jul 12th, 2011, 07:40 PM
I'm not smart/in tune enough to predict what's going to happen to her the next year. But she does seem like she's in a distinct funk after the Australian Open. Such a contrast from her Wimby, US Open, Australian Open runs the past year (Sergy or no Sergy). Let's see?

I think we're all slumping without Sergey in our lives :sad:

spencercarlos
Jul 12th, 2011, 08:30 PM
NO CHANCE for a slam Zvonerava.

Jane Lane
Jul 12th, 2011, 08:32 PM
I think we're all slumping without Sergey in our lives :sad:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AYkDPSrmeL8/TKzVAqG9h3I/AAAAAAAAAL0/0ptruLkAih4/s1600/vera%27s+coach.JPG

We'll always have the memories. :bigcry:

lang26
Jul 12th, 2011, 08:45 PM
I think she still have shot with Wta being so WIde open every woman have a shot it just Player like Vera taking advance of it, same as Jelena. If she does win, it will be at US Open or AO.

pav
Jul 12th, 2011, 08:51 PM
Who is Zvonerava? Not that it really matters, her real twin Zvonareva is just as useless, probably. A slam?? Haha, no. Zvonareva is going downhill fast and will be ranked outside the top five by the end of the year.
I'm not getting involved in this except to say she has every bit as much chance to win one as the player you are touting in your sig.

ArcticMoose
Jul 12th, 2011, 10:51 PM
If Sergey is asked back, then I see her being in the Top 10 bar injuries & a realistic chance to grab a singles slam (Sergey helped conquer her emotional demons which were her biggest obstacle to a slam win). I will not be surprised at all if Vera ended up with Sergey after her Tennis career.:angel:

Karen:spit:Fail.

edificio
Jul 12th, 2011, 11:05 PM
I don't know if she will ever win a slam, will take a bit of luck, but I definitely think she will be able to stay in the top six. I actually think she's overachieved and still has the desire to do more.

King Halep
Jul 12th, 2011, 11:56 PM
Vera had a great setup, then she tinkered with it :oh:

Brad[le]y.
Jul 13th, 2011, 12:03 AM
She was doing fine until Indian Wells IMO and then just started going downhill with numerous loses to players she should beat.

She plays good enough tennis in the slams to win one but in the finals she goes :silly:

Solitaire
Jul 13th, 2011, 12:08 AM
So what I've gathered from this thread is that we DEF need Sergey back because he's hot errr I mean to help Bepa's game.:angel:

Pops Maellard
Jul 13th, 2011, 12:16 AM
Can't see it. :sad:

Maria rocks
Jul 13th, 2011, 07:24 AM
Can't see it. :sad:

Me neither. Would love to be proved wrong though.

Nina.
Jul 13th, 2011, 08:17 AM
Why does it always have do one extreme or the other? She's probaly continuing like she has. She's a good player, she'll go through times when she loses early, she'll win some tournaments - don't think it'll be a GS - she'll get injured again and probably bounce back :shrug:

Beat
Jul 13th, 2011, 08:59 AM
Likely to win a slam? Or is she now going down hill fast?

probably neither.

dane
Jul 13th, 2011, 09:57 AM
Zvon is no match for Caro. Caro is much younger, will be around much longer so no slam for Zvon :wavey:

Chrissie-fan
Jul 13th, 2011, 10:56 AM
Why does it always have do one extreme or the other? She's probaly continuing like she has. She's a good player, she'll go through times when she loses early, she'll win some tournaments - don't think it'll be a GS - she'll get injured again and probably bounce back :shrug:
Probably something like this, yeah.

Chrissie-fan
Jul 13th, 2011, 11:01 AM
Zvon is no match for Caro. Caro is much younger, will be around much longer so no slam for Zvon :wavey:
Zvonareva is 4-4 h2h with Caro. Not bad for someone who is no match for her. Besides, there are other players in the draw of grand slams besides the Woz and Vera.

Corswandt
Jul 13th, 2011, 11:08 AM
So what I've gathered from this thread is that we DEF need Sergey back because he's hot errr I mean to help Bepa's game.:angel:

I'm actually surprised that there's relatively few references to Sergey (7-8 posts out of 30) in here when compared to what we usually get.

This ZoMG!!11!SergeySexx!11! business has actually prevented any kind of serious discussion regarding Zvonareva's game and performance level this year from taking place.

My take: Zvonareva isn't playing significantly worse than she was at this time last year. Or at least I don't think her game has fallen completely apart. It's just that, like Azarenka, to be consistently successful she needs to play her limited game to the very best of her abilities all the time. And, probably due to burnout, she hasn't been able to do so. Also, the level of competition, at least at the Slams, is higher than it was during the Void Years. If she reaches good enough form again, she may bounce back during the US Open Series™, during which the elite players tend not to give best effort to say the least.

Sean.
Jul 13th, 2011, 11:26 AM
Zvon is no match for Caro. Caro is much younger, will be around much longer so no slam for Zvon :wavey:

Yes, because Woz is a real threat in Grand Slams. :spit:

Maria rocks
Jul 13th, 2011, 01:00 PM
Yes, because Woz is a real threat in Grand Slams. :spit:

She could be if she didn't play in so many tournaments before slams started!!!!!

Zvonapova
Jul 13th, 2011, 01:30 PM
Who is Zvonerava? Not that it really matters, her real twin Zvonareva is just as useless, probably. A slam?? Haha, no. Zvonareva is going downhill fast and will be ranked outside the top five by the end of the year.

I'm actually not a Caro hater like some here, but c'mon. You can't make an obnoxious post like this about Vera when she's actually been to more slam finals than your girl. Oh and in case you forget she took Caroline out to get to that U.S. Open final :)

As for Murray The Dullard: :haha:

Zvonapova
Jul 13th, 2011, 01:37 PM
Well, she does have a foot injury right now, so I'm keeping that in mind while gauging her latest performance. Win a slam? I'll never say never for Vera, but it will be tough with Serena and Masha out there and players like Kvitova, Wozniacki, and Lisicki poised to be good for many years to come. Let's just say I'll be very happy if she can get one. Regardless, love me some Bepa lol.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 13th, 2011, 03:34 PM
Who is Zvonerava? Not that it really matters, her real twin Zvonareva is just as useless, probably. A slam?? Haha, no. Zvonareva is going downhill fast and will be ranked outside the top five by the end of the year.
Caralenko (whoever that is) just badrepped me for this post, saying Zvonareva is better than Wozniacki? Better at what? Winning titles, tier 1s and ranking? Haha, no. Better at not being number one? I'll agree with you there.

Zvonareva screams overachiever.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 13th, 2011, 03:38 PM
I'm actually not a Caro hater like some here, but c'mon. You can't make an obnoxious post like this about Vera when she's actually been to more slam finals than your girl. Oh and in case you forget she took Caroline out to get to that U.S. Open final :)

As for Murray The Dullard: :haha:
Of course, she has two slam finals. I agree with you, not to mention she has way more weeks at number one, overall titles and tier 1s than Wozniacki. Oh wait, she has one tier 1 :haha:

Murray? Murray's got three slam finals, six masters titles, 4 slam semi-finals, seventeen titles and $16 million in prize money. Are you trying to compare him to Zvonareva? :confused:

BepaMaria
Jul 13th, 2011, 03:46 PM
Of course, she has two slam finals. I agree with you, not to mention she has way more weeks at number one, overall titles and tier 1s than Wozniacki. Oh wait, she has one tier 1 :haha:

Murray? Murray's got three slam finals, six masters titles, 4 slam semi-finals, seventeen titles and $16 million in prize money. Are you trying to compare him to Zvonareva? :confused:

If you have nothing constructive to say, just shut up and get the fuck out of this thread. Stop spewing your shit about how bad Zvonareva is when your idol is 10 times worse than her. I'm sure you know this thread is talking about slams. 2 slam finals+Olympic bronze>1 slam final.

Zvonareva certainly isn't declining and she is going to win at least 5-6 slams in her career and with her versatility on all surfaces, the CGS is not out of the question. Wozniacki on the other hand will end up with none:wavey:

And to the OP: Please learn your spelling:o

Sean.
Jul 13th, 2011, 03:59 PM
Caralenko (whoever that is) just badrepped me for this post, saying Zvonareva is better than Wozniacki? Better at what? Winning titles, tier 1s and ranking? Haha, no. Better at not being number one? I'll agree with you there.

You're confusing achievement with talent.

When it comes to talent Vera out classes Caro.

Shivank17
Jul 13th, 2011, 04:26 PM
She always had the game,but lacked the mental ability.But now she is capable both physically and mentally,slam awaited,should be soon!

Maria rocks
Jul 13th, 2011, 04:40 PM
You're confusing achievement with talent.

When it comes to talent Vera out classes Caro.

I wouldn't say that. They are different types of players.

Linguae^
Jul 13th, 2011, 04:41 PM
I don't think so, but we never know. Who would have thought that Na was gonna win a slam?! :help:

Maria rocks
Jul 13th, 2011, 04:42 PM
I don't think so, but we never know. Who would have thought that Na was gonna win a slam?! :help:

Yeah this is true. Mind you she could have had two if she would have beat Kim in Australia:)

C. Drone
Jul 13th, 2011, 05:05 PM
Not enough big weapons so she can't decide matches just on her own will. Also the mental fragility hanging above her head like the Sword of Damocles. Maybe those 2 finals were a bit fluke and she'll never gets another chance, but who knows. A GS draw can fall apart any time.

(also, bring back Sergey :oh:)

JCTennisFan
Jul 13th, 2011, 05:11 PM
Im afraid she doesnt have the weapons to do so.... she doesnt have a KO shot. By the same token she doesnt have a blatant weakness. It used to be her mental ability that was her biggest weakness... you just had to play tight with her for long enough and you knew she'd more than likely mentally crack. Now that problem seems to be largely corrected... but just like Dementieva and her serve.. during really intensely stressful moments her mental tendencies are bound to crop up again. She may no longer cry, but that doesnt mean she cant mentally be a bit frail during the KEY points.

She just doesnt have a weapon to easily end points on... the closet thing she has is her BH and lets face it, it will never be a janko/venus level BH.

JCTennisFan
Jul 13th, 2011, 05:12 PM
Not enough big weapons so she can't decide matches just on her own will. Also the mental fragility hanging above her head like the Sword of Damocles. Maybe those 2 finals were a bit fluke and she'll never gets another chance, but who knows. A GS draw can fall apart any time.

(also, bring back Sergey :oh:)

LOL, you beat me to it :worship:

GoofyDuck
Jul 13th, 2011, 05:52 PM
Not enough big weapons so she can't decide matches just on her own will. Also the mental fragility hanging above her head like the Sword of Damocles. Maybe those 2 finals were a bit fluke and she'll never gets another chance, but who knows. A GS draw can fall apart any time.

(also, bring back Sergey :oh:)

That is not true.. Vera has a good FH and BH, and has a decent first serve.
She has good enough weapons to hit winners on demand.

She just tends to turn into an ultra pusher when playing an aggresive player.. even agaisnt Clijsters all she did was defending with the ball landing short :facepalm:

C. Drone
Jul 13th, 2011, 06:42 PM
That is not true.. Vera has a good FH and BH, and has a decent first serve.
She has good enough weapons to hit winners on demand.

She just tends to turn into an ultra pusher when playing an aggresive player.. even agaisnt Clijsters all she did was defending with the ball landing short :facepalm:

half of the tour has good BH, but now we are talking about #3 who supposed to be a slam threat...
"good" and "decent" doesn't make everything a big/great/superior weapon.

(Also, Stosur doesn't even need a BH to beat Vera all the time, what does that say about good and decent weapons...)

Daniela-Is-Mine
Jul 13th, 2011, 07:16 PM
The fall cometh.

DevilishAttitude
Jul 13th, 2011, 07:42 PM
I've always found it strange on this board, how for all the criticism Wozniacki gets on this board for being a defensive over-achiever, that Zvonareva consistently seems to be above criticism. Her sudden run to near the top of the game as been arguably just as opportunistic as Wozniacki's. Whilst the Wimbledon run was fairly impressive, her US Open and Australian deep runs were cake-walks. Aside from beating Wozniacki, Vera didn't face a single Top 20 player. Its not like she's transformed her game, she's just in better shape and better mentally (Although has we saw in both slam finals, Vera's mental strength instantly evaporated in the big matches) I can't help but feel Zvonareva has managed to take advantage of a very weak period on the WTA, with a fairly mundane and predictable game. I feel the only way she will go is down from now on.

danieln1
Jul 13th, 2011, 08:52 PM
I've always found it strange on this board, how for all the criticism Wozniacki gets on this board for being a defensive over-achiever, that Zvonareva consistently seems to be above criticism. Her sudden run to near the top of the game as been arguably just as opportunistic as Wozniacki's. Whilst the Wimbledon run was fairly impressive, her US Open and Australian deep runs were cake-walks. Aside from beating Wozniacki, Vera didn't face a single Top 20 player. Its not like she's transformed her game, she's just in better shape and better mentally (Although has we saw in both slam finals, Vera's mental strength instantly evaporated in the big matches) I can't help but feel Zvonareva has managed to take advantage of a very weak period on the WTA, with a fairly mundane and predictable game. I feel the only way she will go is down from now on.

This.

I always thought the exact way, obviously she took advantage just like Caro, but when it mattered in a slam final, she crumbled, like her whole career... But obviously for being number 2, she didn´t get so much criticism, and I bet if Caro was just the number 2 she would get half the criticism I guess.

JCTennisFan
Jul 13th, 2011, 08:54 PM
I've always found it strange on this board, how for all the criticism Wozniacki gets on this board for being a defensive over-achiever, that Zvonareva consistently seems to be above criticism. Her sudden run to near the top of the game as been arguably just as opportunistic as Wozniacki's. Whilst the Wimbledon run was fairly impressive, her US Open and Australian deep runs were cake-walks. Aside from beating Wozniacki, Vera didn't face a single Top 20 player. Its not like she's transformed her game, she's just in better shape and better mentally (Although has we saw in both slam finals, Vera's mental strength instantly evaporated in the big matches) I can't help but feel Zvonareva has managed to take advantage of a very weak period on the WTA, with a fairly mundane and predictable game. I feel the only way she will go is down from now on.


Vera is simply more well rounded, and she has been a top player for several years. She has proven herself much more than Woz, even if they both are relatively in the same boat career wise {not being able to make that next step}. Vera is also more tactically intelligent than Woz.

Vikapower
Jul 13th, 2011, 09:32 PM
I've always found it strange on this board, how for all the criticism Wozniacki gets on this board for being a defensive over-achiever, that Zvonareva consistently seems to be above criticism. Her sudden run to near the top of the game as been arguably just as opportunistic as Wozniacki's. Whilst the Wimbledon run was fairly impressive, her US Open and Australian deep runs were cake-walks. Aside from beating Wozniacki, Vera didn't face a single Top 20 player. Its not like she's transformed her game, she's just in better shape and better mentally (Although has we saw in both slam finals, Vera's mental strength instantly evaporated in the big matches) I can't help but feel Zvonareva has managed to take advantage of a very weak period on the WTA, with a fairly mundane and predictable game. I feel the only way she will go is down from now on.

Indeed. Personally, I've always put them in the same bag, facts for her shows also that the only reason she has been ranked so high and successful on the tour is because of this very weak era -- fortunately she never got to #1 thus people critics spared her.

I don't recall any regular performances from her when the better players were 100%. She doesn't have anything exceptional in her game unless that she's abled to create slightly a little bit more power from the back court or maybe strike a good volley like that from time to time.

She's a a lot more worser version than Wozniacki achievement wise who at least wins the bigger events and dominates the tour to an extent for relevance - at last there was a thread the other day that was pointing out in what state she was almost going to be #1.

I can't recall the title exactly... but it was demonstrating how the best title she had when competing for the #1 rank with some other girls was Pattaya City I think... someone might find it but what joke when saw that.

Daniela-Is-Mine
Jul 13th, 2011, 09:38 PM
Vera is simply more well rounded, and she has been a top player for several years. She has proven herself much more than Woz, even if they both are relatively in the same boat career wise {not being able to make that next step}. Vera is also more tactically intelligent than Woz.

:help:

JCTennisFan
Jul 13th, 2011, 09:42 PM
:help:

she has 2 slam finals to Woz's 1, has had to fight against alot harder opponents in the early stages of her career, and has been in the top 10 during several different years, so how hasnt she proven herself more?

lang26
Jul 13th, 2011, 09:46 PM
i believe if she does make to another slam final she will win

goldenlox
Jul 13th, 2011, 09:49 PM
She turns 27 in 2 months. She gradually improved, got to #2.
She is a very intelligent women, and since Fran & Li won majors, I wouldnt count Vera out. But she will need the right situation.
Her 2 slam finals were not good efforts, but she was playing the best player in those 2 tournaments, who had won those majors before.

Chrissie-fan
Jul 14th, 2011, 12:23 AM
Zvonareva screams overachiever.
What's wrong with that? Overachiever implies that you get more out of your career than you should. That should be reason for praise and not ridicule it seems to me.

pav
Jul 14th, 2011, 12:38 AM
She just doesnt have a weapon to easily end points on... the closet thing she has is her BH and lets face it, it will never be a janko/venus level BH.
Yet in several recent matches between Janko and Bepa, the commentators were raving about one players backhand DTL, and it wasn't Janko!

DefyingGravity
Jul 14th, 2011, 12:59 AM
You're confusing achievement with talent.

When it comes to talent Vera out classes Caro.

Unfortunately, this. Vera's got a better net game (evidenced by her doubles slams), and is just more well equipped to be aggressive in an all court game when she needs to be, forcing more errors than Caroline can.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 14th, 2011, 06:24 PM
Zvonareva has Grand Slams in doubles and mixed doubles.
Doubles and mixed doubles? Are you serious?

marineblue
Jul 14th, 2011, 06:38 PM
No,doesn´t have the mental strenght to do it. She self-destructs under pressure like Safina did.

marineblue
Jul 14th, 2011, 06:40 PM
She turns 27 in 2 months. She gradually improved, got to #2.
She is a very intelligent women, and since Fran & Li won majors, I wouldnt count Vera out. But she will need the right situation.
Her 2 slam finals were not good efforts, but she was playing the best player in those 2 tournaments, who had won those majors before.

Well, who knows, maybe we have to wait until she is 29.

Zvonapova
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:35 AM
Doubles and mixed doubles? Are you serious?

Out of respect for the cool Wozza fans on this board I'm holding back, but you know deep down that you shouldn't be belittling anyone's Grand Slam achievements lol.

!VamosRafa!
Jul 15th, 2011, 03:54 AM
She's out there somewhere...
She's getting strong...
The Dark Lord will rise again...

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6006/5939164812_386571e39a.jpg

:scared:

Graftard
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:02 AM
Doubles and mixed doubles? Are you serious?

:rolleyes: A Pushniacki fan belittling achievements of other players. Pathetic.

Brad[le]y.
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:05 AM
Out of respect for the cool Wozza fans on this board I'm holding back, but you know deep down that you shouldn't be belittling anyone's Grand Slam achievements lol.Don't worry about him. he's just a troll; he doesn't post in Caro's player forum nor would we let him :lol:

Steven.
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:46 AM
people should know to never respond to World Life's posts by now. He's not even a troll. He's just a stupid kid who spouts out his nonsensical beliefs in the most annoying way possible every time and without fail.

Chrissie-fan
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:34 AM
Don't worry about him. he's just a troll; he doesn't post in Caro's player forum nor would we let him :lol:
That's right. Actually there are about three or four of those so-called "Caro-fans" who regularly post at GM that wouldn't be welcome at Caro's player forum. Hateful comments about other players aren't tolerated there either BTW.

BepaMaria
Jul 15th, 2011, 12:50 PM
Doubles and mixed doubles? Are you serious?

Childish. Just pure childishness:o. Think before you post. Your fav doesn't even have any doubles or mixed doubles slams, let alone slams in singles:facepalm:

Maria rocks
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:07 PM
That's right. Actually there are about three or four of those so-called "Caro-fans" who regularly post at GM that wouldn't be welcome at Caro's player forum. Hateful comments about other players aren't tolerated there either BTW.

Crazy why people are so hateful towards certain players. Personally i like to see them all do well.

Chrissie-fan
Jul 15th, 2011, 04:30 PM
Crazy why people are so hateful towards certain players. Personally i like to see them all do well.
I don't understand it either. I support Caroline, but when other players do well I'm happy for them. Why not? I know none of these players personally, and none of them have ever done any harm to me, so I have no reason to hate any of them.

lang26
Jul 15th, 2011, 05:23 PM
I think vera still have a good chance of getting a slam. I hoping she playing better and her ankle heel 100% for U.S. Open. guess we tell at the Baku Cup

Maria rocks
Jul 15th, 2011, 06:22 PM
I don't understand it either. I support Caroline, but when other players do well I'm happy for them. Why not? I know none of these players personally, and none of them have ever done any harm to me, so I have no reason to hate any of them.

Im with you on that. Yes i support Maria Sharapova but same as you i like to see the other players doing well too. After all it can only be good for the sport the more players there are doing well:)

dsanders06
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:14 PM
Unfortunately, this. Vera's got a better net game (evidenced by her doubles slams), and is just more well equipped to be aggressive in an all court game when she needs to be, forcing more errors than Caroline can.

Zvonareva might be better than Wozniacki in many (maybe most) areas of the game, but, the key thing for me is, Wozniacki is atleast OUTSTANDING in one area of the game (defense), whereas Zvonareva is solid in most areas but not outstanding in ANY - and I think that's the reason why Wozniacki will almost certainly have the better career, even if Zvonareva has the edge in a shot-by-shot breakdown. Zvonareva is good and consistent enough to beat almost every player, but she isn't good enough to beat the top players playing even at 75% ... this was best illustrated when she played Serena at Eastbourne, where even Serena's B-game was bettering her off the ground, bettering her on serve, and even being almost as good as her in movement. In the two Slam finals Vera reached, Serena and Kim pretty much just phoned it in, and that was still good enough to easily win. Vera's only huge win to date was over Wozniacki at the US Open last year - a player who owns Vera usually, but who had idiotically tired herself out by playing 4 straight weeks before going right into a Slam a couple of days later, and went down in a very un-Wozniacki-like total of 25 unforced errors.

Basically, while Wozniacki will never be anywhere near as good as the top players off the ground, she's better than anyone in defensive skills, and that *could* be enough to get her big wins; whereas Zvonareva, even if she's better than Woz overall, doesn't have that killer weapon or area of the game where she's better than everyone.

Excelscior
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:31 PM
Zvonareva might be better than Wozniacki in many (maybe most) areas of the game, but, the key thing for me is, Wozniacki is atleast OUTSTANDING in one area of the game (defense), whereas Zvonareva is solid in most areas but not outstanding in ANY - and I think that's the reason why Wozniacki will almost certainly have the better career, even if Zvonareva has the edge in a shot-by-shot breakdown. Zvonareva is good and consistent enough to beat almost every player, but she isn't good enough to beat the top players playing even at 75% ... this was best illustrated when she played Serena at Eastbourne, where even Serena's B-game was bettering her off the ground, bettering her on serve, and even being almost as good as her in movement. In the two Slam finals Vera reached, Serena and Kim pretty much just phoned it in, and that was still good enough to easily win. Vera's only huge win to date was over Wozniacki at the US Open last year - a player who owns Vera usually, but who had idiotically tired herself out by playing 4 straight weeks before going right into a Slam a couple of days later, and went down in a very un-Wozniacki-like total of 25 unforced errors.

Basically, while Wozniacki will never be anywhere near as good as the top players off the ground, she's better than anyone in defensive skills, and that *could* be enough to get her big wins; whereas Zvonareva, even if she's better than Woz overall, doesn't have that killer weapon or area of the game where she's better than everyone.

I know I had to put you in your place yesterday. And I really don't want to respond to you today (though I'm sure others will). But this is a hilarious idiotic thread. Nothing personal. But do you hear yourself?

From what I can see, your basically saying, "neither one of them has a good chance of winning a major, but Caro's chance is better cause she plays better defense, over Vera's better offense and good defense over her". Lol. This is hilarious.

How much better is Wozniaki's defense over Zvonereva (if at all)? Lol.

What has Wozniaki's vaunted defense (through her anticipation, less so than her speed) done for her career in majors?

If Vera has no weapons to beat the top players in slams; then what weapons does Caroline have (when Vera's are better)? Then you proceeded to make 50 excuses on why Vera whup that Sunshine Azz up in the US open last year against Woz!! You can't make this up. This is hilarious doublespeak.

I encourage all of you to read this analysis.

Lastly, your a Caro-tard (as opposed to a true Caro fan, which I have no problems with) who's trying to come across like you're not with a reasoned analysis. Obviously, from reading this, you don't!! Why denigrate a similar player, with similar success (so far), with empty rhetoric??

Hilarious!! :bounce: :help: :tape:

Note: The best thing you can/could of said about Caro vs Vera, is that Caro's got a chance to improve between her 21-26 birthday over Vera. Now, that would of made more sense!!!

Steven.
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:51 PM
Lastly, your a Caro-tard (as opposed to a true Caro fan, which I have no problems with) who's trying to come across like you have a reasoned analysis. Obviously, from reading this, you don't!!

Hilarious!! :bounce: :help: :tape:

dsanders is a carotard?

Excelscior
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:57 PM
dsanders is a carotard?

Because of Dsanders excuses and doublespeak to support Caro over Vera in their last post. Didn't make any sense.

C. Drone
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:00 PM
I know I had to put you in your place yesterday. And I really don't want to respond to you today (though I'm sure others will). But this is a hilarious idiotic thread. Nothing personal. But do you hear yourself?

From what I can see, your basically saying, "neither one of them has a good chance of winning a major, but Caro's chance is better cause she plays better defense, over Vera's better offense and good defense over her". Lol. This is hilarious.

How much better is Wozniaki's defense over Zvonereva (if at all)? Lol.

What has Wozniaki's vaunted defense (through her anticipation, less so than her speed) done for her career in majors?

If Vera has no weapons; then what weapons does Caroline have (when Vera's are better)? You can't make this up.

This is hilarious doublespeak.

I encourage all of you to read this analysis.

Lastly, your a Caro-tard who's trying to come across like you have a reasoned analysis. Obviously, from reading this, you don't!!

Hilarious!! :bounce: :help: :tape:

Note: The best thing you can/could of said about Caro vs Vera, is that Caro's got a chance to improve between her 21-27 birthday over Vera. Now, that would of made more sense!!!

you didn't say anything that would confute his post. Just dumb bashing.
questions could be the same:

"How much better is Wozniaki'sZvonareva's defense over ZvonerevaWozniacki's (if at all)? Lol.

What has Wozniaki'sZvonareva's vaunted defense (through her anticipation, less so than her speed) done for her career in majors?

If VeraCaroline has no weapons; then what weapons does CarolineVera have (when Vera's are better)? You can't make this up."

Excelscior
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:25 PM
you didn't say anything that would confute his post. Just dumb bashing.
questions could be the same:

"How much better is Wozniaki'sZvonareva's defense over ZvonerevaWozniacki's (if at all)? Lol.

What has Wozniaki'sZvonareva's vaunted defense (through her anticipation, less so than her speed) done for her career in majors?

If VeraCaroline has no weapons; then what weapons does CarolineVera have (when Vera's are better)? You can't make this up."

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say or imply.

What I was demonstrating was, he didn't have a tangible argument for one over the other, but still chose Caro for empty reasons.

I didn't have to make a detailed argument for one over other (that was for him). It's not my fight. I just thought he was unfair to Vera, and demonstrated that.

C. Drone
Jul 15th, 2011, 09:01 PM
Not exactly sure what you're trying to say or imply.

What I was demonstrating was, he didn't have a tangible argument for one over the other, but still chose Caro for empty reasons.

I didn't have to make a detailed argument for one over other (that was for him). It's not my fight. I just thought he was unfair to Vera, and demonstrated that.

his argument is "tangible" with "empty reasons", but you don't have to?
i see. :oh:

I can agree with his points. In some situations one or two outstanding skill or feature can be more successful than an all-average pack. Just look at Stosur and her clay game/results.
That doesn't mean Vera never beats Wozniacki again or won't win slam. But i think Vera's chance are slimmer.

Excelscior
Jul 15th, 2011, 11:51 PM
his argument is "tangible" with "empty reasons", but you don't have to?
i see. :oh:

I can agree with his points. In some situations one or two outstanding skill or feature can be more successful than an all-average pack. Just look at Stosur and her clay game/results.
That doesn't mean Vera never beats Wozniacki again or won't win slam. But i think Vera's chance are slimmer.

The point is (as I said in my original response), it's arguable to say that Wozniaki's defense is better (or that much better than Vera's), and where/what has Wozniaki's DEFENSE and lack of offense (which is not as well rounded as Vera's ) have gotten her? That was my question.

Outside of age, and Vera slumping recently(which he really didn't get into), I don't really see what advantages he presented that Caro has over Vera, to conclude that Caro was better/would win more majors. They're very similar players (with Vera having a better all around game).

I like both, so I don't see why that's so complicated to you.

dsanders06
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:08 AM
:rolls:

When did you become a Woz hater, Sluggy? Didn't you predict her to get to the Wimbledon final and then "be denied by Venus in a classic"? :awww:

And my point was that Wozniacki is a much better defender than Zvonareva, and that that Woz's defence is the ONLY part of EITHER player's games that is outstanding, and so she has a better shot at winning majors, even if Zvonareva has a better all-around game. You might not agree, but it's pretty obvious what my point was, so I don't know why you're feigning ignorance.

Chrissie-fan
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:10 AM
Im with you on that. Yes i support Maria Sharapova but same as you i like to see the other players doing well too. After all it can only be good for the sport the more players there are doing well :)
Yeah, but unfortunately many others don't see it that way. It sorta explains why I go through these periods where I'm a very active member and then I'm away for six months or a year. I love tennis and I love talking about it with people who share that interest, but I get bored very quickly by all the negativity that others here seem to love. And especially if you're a Wozniacki fan like me you have to be a masochist to stick around here for any extended period of time.

Excelscior
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:43 AM
:rolls:

When did you become a Woz hater, Sluggy? Didn't you predict her to get to the Wimbledon final and then "be denied by Venus in a classic"? :awww:

And my point was that Wozniacki is a much better defender than Zvonareva, and that that Woz's defence is the ONLY part of EITHER player's games that is outstanding, and so she has a better shot at winning majors, even if Zvonareva has a better all-around game. You might not agree, but it's pretty obvious what my point was, so I don't know why you're feigning ignorance.

They're both irrelevant!!

That should be familiar thing for you! :confused: :wavey: :help: :lol:

Sean.
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:46 AM
Zvonareva might be better than Wozniacki in many (maybe most) areas of the game, but, the key thing for me is, Wozniacki is atleast OUTSTANDING in one area of the game (defense)

Honest question, have you seen Vera play much? Vera's defence is equal to, if not superior to Caro's. Watch her matches at AO if you don't believe me. As a whole Vera's wasn't playing well at all that tournament but her retrieving was phenomenal.

The huge advantage Caroline does have over Vera is mental. Zvonareva gets tight in big matches and can't play her best tennis. I will admit it's a big factor in matches in the latter stages of tournaments and the reason Vera hasn't had many big results.

Zvonareva is good and consistent enough to beat almost every player, but she isn't good enough to beat the top players playing even at 75% ...

And Wozniacki is? :unsure:

Vera's only huge win to date was over Wozniacki at the US Open last year - a player who owns Vera usually, but who had idiotically tired herself out by playing 4 straight weeks before going right into a Slam a couple of days later, and went down in a very un-Wozniacki-like total of 25 unforced errors.

Firstly their H2H is 4-4, that's hardly ownage. And secondly, if we're going to play the excuse game, Vera's head, not her game, lost her the matches in Doha, Beijing & Montreal.

Often, much like Safina, people are too quick to judge Vera's game having watched her when she's tight (in finals for instance) and not playing her best tennis at all! She's more than talented enough to win a slam, if she can get her head in order!

Excelscior
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:52 AM
Honest question, have you seen Vera play much? Vera's defence is equal to, if not superior to Caro's. Watch her matches at AO if you don't believe me. As a whole Vera's wasn't playing well at all that tournament but her retrieving was phenomenal.

The huge advantage Caroline does have over Vera is mental. Zvonareva gets tight in big matches and can't play her best tennis. I will admit it's a big factor in matches in the latter stages of tournaments and the reason Vera hasn't had many big results.



And Wozniacki is? :unsure:



Firstly their H2H is 4-4, that's hardly ownage. And secondly, if we're going to play the excuse game, Vera's head, not her game, lost her the matches in Doha, Beijing & Montreal.

Often, much like Safina, people are too quick to judge Vera's game having watched her when she's tight (in finals for instance) and not playing her best tennis at all! She's more than talented enough to win a slam, if she can get her head in order!

You and I basically had duplicate post to this idiot Sean. I just didn't pull out his/her quotes, as you did. And he/she still can't see why you and I brought up the points we did.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when they use ridiculous logic and examples, people are going to call them on it.

I agree with you. The Mental or age argument would be the way to go (and I acknowledged that originally); but not their games. That's so negligible!

SMH/Useless! :bounce: :rolleyes: :lol:

pav
Jul 16th, 2011, 12:56 AM
:rolls:

When did you become a Woz hater, Sluggy? Didn't you predict her to get to the Wimbledon final and then "be denied by Venus in a classic"? :awww:

And my point was that Wozniacki is a much better defender than Zvonareva, and that that Woz's defence is the ONLY part of EITHER player's games that is outstanding, and so she has a better shot at winning majors, even if Zvonareva has a better all-around game. You might not agree, but it's pretty obvious what my point was, so I don't know why you're feigning ignorance.
Three things are wrong in recent posts, "Woz is a much better defender than Zvon" No perhaps a little bit better.
"Her only huge win was against Woz at US open "That's flattering Woz a lot!
The "Player she usually owns" is just plain silly!
and I'm a bit of a Woz fan.

dsanders06
Jul 16th, 2011, 01:05 AM
Honest question, have you seen Vera play much? Vera's defence is equal to, if not superior to Caro's. Watch her matches at AO if you don't believe me. As a whole Vera's wasn't playing well at all that tournament but her retrieving was phenomenal.

I've seen her play quite a bit, yes. Zvonareva is a good defender, but she certainly isn't up there with Wozniacki, Clijsters or Jankovic at her best. She might possibly be a bit faster in terms of raw footspeed, but Wozniacki has much better anticipation and footwork which in my views means she's a more effective defender. Whenever the pair play, Zvonareva is always the aggressor, because she knows she's not going to out-grind Wozniacki.

Sean.
Jul 16th, 2011, 01:23 AM
I've seen her play quite a bit, yes. Zvonareva is a good defender, but she certainly isn't up there with Wozniacki, Clijsters or Jankovic at her best.

We'll have to agree to disagree there then.

Wozniacki has much better anticipation and footwork

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc219/5e4n/martinaanna.gif

Zvonareva is always the aggressor, because she knows she's not going to out-grind Wozniacki.

In which of Caroline's matches is her opponent not the aggressor?

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 16th, 2011, 06:18 PM
Out of respect for the cool Wozza fans on this board I'm holding back, but you know deep down that you shouldn't be belittling anyone's Grand Slam achievements lol.

:rolleyes: A Pushniacki fan belittling achievements of other players. Pathetic.

Childish. Just pure childishness:o. Think before you post. Your fav doesn't even have any doubles or mixed doubles slams, let alone slams in singles:facepalm:
Let me enlighten you all. Doubles and mixed doubles are worthless. Those titles mean absolutely nothing.

Wozniacki has the much better singles career already and will continue to do so. No argument here. End of discussion.

madmax
Jul 16th, 2011, 06:30 PM
I've seen her play quite a bit, yes. Zvonareva is a good defender, but she certainly isn't up there with Wozniacki, Clijsters or Jankovic at her best. She might possibly be a bit faster in terms of raw footspeed, but Wozniacki has much better anticipation and footwork which in my views means she's a more effective defender. Whenever the pair play, Zvonareva is always the aggressor, because she knows she's not going to out-grind Wozniacki.

actually I've seen plenty of Push and Vera matches and Vera does her fair share of defending even against dane...and she does it just as well or even better, hence their tight H2H record. Keep in mind that Vera isn't a big hitter and she has to rely on her all-arround skills to outsmart more powerful dane (yes, Push hits bigger than Vera - believe it or not).

terjw
Jul 16th, 2011, 06:47 PM
Zvonareva might be better than Wozniacki in many (maybe most) areas of the game, but, the key thing for me is, Wozniacki is atleast OUTSTANDING in one area of the game (defense), whereas Zvonareva is solid in most areas but not outstanding in ANY - and I think that's the reason why Wozniacki will almost certainly have the better career, even if Zvonareva has the edge in a shot-by-shot breakdown. Zvonareva is good and consistent enough to beat almost every player, but she isn't good enough to beat the top players playing even at 75% ... this was best illustrated when she played Serena at Eastbourne, where even Serena's B-game was bettering her off the ground, bettering her on serve, and even being almost as good as her in movement. In the two Slam finals Vera reached, Serena and Kim pretty much just phoned it in, and that was still good enough to easily win. Vera's only huge win to date was over Wozniacki at the US Open last year - a player who owns Vera usually, but who had idiotically tired herself out by playing 4 straight weeks before going right into a Slam a couple of days later, and went down in a very un-Wozniacki-like total of 25 unforced errors.

Basically, while Wozniacki will never be anywhere near as good as the top players off the ground, she's better than anyone in defensive skills, and that *could* be enough to get her big wins; whereas Zvonareva, even if she's better than Woz overall, doesn't have that killer weapon or area of the game where she's better than everyone.

:lol: If ever I was in doubt not to take any of your posts and the waffle you come up with seriously. I don't know what planet or parallel universe you live on - but here in the real world Vera did beat Serena at Eastbourne for your information.

Since Caro has come into this thread - congrats to both players along with Kim for an outstanding last half of 2010 and early 2011. All three players have been overshadowed lately by the successes of Li and Petra, a revival by Masha and the story with the return of the Williams which needs to unravel further. As we go into the hard court USA season - it makes for an interesting time to see how it all unfolds.

dsanders06
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:04 PM
:lol: If ever I was in doubt not to take any of your posts and the waffle you come up with seriously. I don't know what planet or parallel universe you live on - but here in the real world Vera did beat Serena at Eastbourne for your information.

After Serena choked, having bossed the entire match until up 6-3, 5-3. Did you watch the match?

lang26
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:06 PM
here come the lonely Zvonerava haters lol ya so sad

GoofyDuck
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Zvonareva played crap at Eastbourne aswell, this shows at her further results there and at Wimbledon :shrug:

dsanders06
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Zvonareva played crap at Eastbourne aswell, this shows at her further results there and at Wimbledon :shrug:

I don't even think she had a particularly crap result at Wimbledon. Third round is about her usual for her career... it was LAST YEAR'S run to the final that was unusual for her. :shrug: She's been thrashed by Pironkova before too.

Sean.
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:24 PM
Zvonareva is good and consistent enough to beat almost every player, but she isn't good enough to beat the top players playing even at 75% ...

Forgot to add this to my earlier post, but you make it sounds like Caroline is routinely beating the 'top' players. She is still yet to record a win over the Williams Sisters, or Clijsters. Whereas Vera was 4-4 against them in 2010/11.

GoofyDuck
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:24 PM
Comparing to last year's Wimbledon to this years AO she played crap. period.

She made F-F-SF... including some finals at tournaments in between...

Sure Wimbledon 2010 was surprising but she backed it up, it wasn't like Pironkova's fluke run.

dsanders06
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:33 PM
Forgot to add this to my earlier post, but you make it sounds like Caroline is routinely beating the 'top' players. She is still yet to record a win over the Williams Sisters, or Clijsters. Whereas Vera was 4-4 against them in 2010/11.

Vera played well to beat Kim at Wimbledon, but as for her other wins, Vera beat her in Canada when Kim got injured at a set and a break up, and then at the WTA Champs in a dead rubber; the Wimbledon win aside, it was Kim who won their matches that mattered most (US Open F, AO SFs), and in embarrassingly easy fashion. And no explanation needed for the Serena win at Eastbourne. :facepalm:

I've said numerous times on this board that I think Wozniacki is going to struggle a helluva lot to beat the top girls at their best, but I give her *more* of a chance of getting that type of success than Zvonareva.

Also, to answer something you said last night which I forgot about:

In which of Caroline's matches is her opponent not the aggressor?

None of them, because they all know they simply can't beat Wozniacki by out-defending her. Even Jankovic goes for far more than she usually does when she plays her these days, because she knows she can't beat her at defence.

terjw
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:39 PM
After Serena choked, having bossed the entire match until up 6-3, 5-3. Did you watch the match?

Yes I did. So we have to take ifs wouldas and coulda from you now to back up your argument. :lol: Bad example - Vera won that match which you said proved she couldn't beat a top player.

Excelscior
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:41 PM
Vera played well to beat Kim at Wimbledon, but as for her other wins, Vera beat her in Canada when Kim got injured at a set and a break up, and then at the WTA Champs in a dead rubber; the Wimbledon win aside, it was Kim who won their matches that mattered most (US Open F, AO SFs), and in embarrassingly easy fashion. And no explanation needed for the Serena win at Eastbourne. :facepalm:

I've said numerous times on this board that I think Wozniacki is going to struggle a helluva lot to beat the top girls at their best, but I give her *more* of a chance of getting that type of success than Zvonareva.

Also, to answer something you said last night which I forgot about:

None of them, because they all know they simply can't beat Wozniacki by out-defending her. Even Jankovic goes for far more than she usually does when she plays her these days, because she knows she can't beat her at defence.

Man, you are making less sense every moment. WTF? Getting desperate?

That highlighted quote doesn't even deserve a quality remark. Do you hear yourself (that's your response to the "when is Woz's opponents ever not the aggressor question")?......Nuts! Lol.

As I predicted in my original response, your getting beat up by numerous posters for your nonsensical dribble and idiotic analysis. Told Ya!

Couldn't happen to a better rambler. :bounce: :wavey::help: :lol: :confused:

Hurley
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:46 PM
Thread title :facepalm:

dsanders06
Jul 16th, 2011, 07:50 PM
Yes I did. So we have to take ifs wouldas and coulda from you now to back up your argument. :lol: Bad example - Vera won that match which you said proved she couldn't beat a top player.

Zvonareva "deserved" to win the match because any one who gets the "W" deserves it by it's very nature... but it's clearly not going to be what normally happens, as Serena choking (which she clearly did) is not going to be a normal occurence, and, up until she did choke, Zvonareva's game was giving her no trouble whatsoever. Even the normally diplomatic Eurosport commentators were remarking on how it was hard to remember a more impotent display from a top 3 player.

[/B]
Man, you are making less sense every moment. WTF? Getting desperate?

That highlighted quote doesn't even deserve a quality remark. Do you hear yourself (that's your response to the "when is Woz's opponents ever not the aggressor question")?......Nuts! Lol.

As I predicted in my original response, your getting beat up by numerous posters for your nonsensical dribble and idiotic analysis.

Couldn't happen to a better rambler. :bounce: :wavey::help: :lol: :confused:

:kiss: