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martinahfan7
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:13 PM
Read Simon Reeds article about Caroline Wozniacki. In his opinion, she doesn't have a temperament problem, she simply does not have the weapons to win a grand slam. The article is at the following link:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/simon-reed/article/6772/

What do you think? Can Wozniacki win a grand slam? If not, is the problem a temperament one, does she not have the weapons, or both?

Libertango
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:15 PM
OMG @ this being your first post...apparently.

Welcome. ;)

theFutureisNow
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:15 PM
This is starting to get ridiculous.

Mods need to allow ONE Wozniacki thread in General Messages. All others need to be instantly locked unless they are talking about a specific result.

goldenlox
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:16 PM
No!!!!!! (Well, maybe..)

backhandsmash
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Yippee! Another Woz thread!

postalblowfish
Jul 9th, 2011, 03:15 PM
How did they get 1000 credits after one post and joining this month?

Maria rocks
Jul 9th, 2011, 03:20 PM
Yes. Her best chance will be on a hard court ie either Australia or the US. But she has to stop playing in so many tournaments leading up to Grand Slams. To keep playing in tournaments a week before a Grand Slam is crazy if you are serious about winning the slam.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 9th, 2011, 04:39 PM
Caroline Wozniacki will win grand slams. She has so much time on her side, it's ridiculous. She's only 20, going on 21. How many years does she have to win titles??? A LOT. She WILL win tonnes of slams. In my opinion, she will win at least ten slams. When she gets her first, all the pressure will be gone and she will win more and more and more. The haters don't see this, but they don't see anything. The future is Wozniacki.

chavet
Jul 9th, 2011, 04:42 PM
A big YES sir ;)

doomsday
Jul 9th, 2011, 04:45 PM
Caroline Wozniacki will win grand slams. She has so much time on her side, it's ridiculous. She's only 20, going on 21. How many years does she have to win titles??? A LOT. She WILL win tonnes of slams. In my opinion, she will win at least ten slams. When she gets her first, all the pressure will be gone and she will win more and more and more. The haters don't see this, but they don't see anything. The future is Wozniacki.

Thank God it won't happen:lol:

Break My Rapture
Jul 9th, 2011, 04:59 PM
I think this thread is actually more justified than the other crap about her that get shoved into our throats in GM, since this one is based on a so-called expert's opinion.

And she probably will, there is going to be a chance for her to somehow grab one when the players who are capable of beating her are either obsolete or lacking.

Bonfire
Jul 9th, 2011, 05:08 PM
I think it depends on how bad she truly wants it and for how long she wants to keep trying. If she stays focused, determined and well-trained...then I definitely think she will win a slam(s) in the future. If she gets annoyed and down about pressure, disappointing results and inability to have much of a life outside of tennis...then she could falter kind of like what I think we are seeing from JJ these days. I think and hope it's the former, not the latter situation. And of course, everything will ultimately be in the hands of health and whether or not injury plays any part but overall...I think Caro will continue to work hard and get that slam and get it more sooner than later.

rockstar
Jul 9th, 2011, 05:19 PM
she is ridiculously consistent on hard courts, hopefully she can do it later this year :)

Excelscior
Jul 9th, 2011, 05:26 PM
Now that Mr. Reed wrote this article, saying she can't win a slam, maybe now she'll win The Open? :confused: :confused:

bandabou
Jul 9th, 2011, 05:45 PM
Remember there have been girls who are MUCH better than Caroline who HAVEN'T won a major ( e.g.: Elena D), so when people say she WILL a major for sure? :shrug:

I think Caroline is good enough to win majors. But she has to change her attitude at the majors and specially during crunch time. At the majors you've to be KILLER and Caroline just isn't a killer.

chmath
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:01 PM
No. She will always come up against one player who will hit her off the court or be tactically superior. Point in case, Kim and Li Na. And with Kvitova on the rise and Masha back to form, it's very unlikely she will ever win a major. In any other era, she wouldn't be the top ranked player, anyway. It simply reflects the volume of work she puts in, not her ability to win a slam. Elena D. didn't win a slam, neither did Jankovic in her prime. And the latter was ranked #1 for a while. She's a very pleasant girl, but definitely not GS material and in many ways, a 'duff' world #1.

Doully
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:05 PM
Remember there have been girls who are MUCH better than Caroline who HAVEN'T won a major ( e.g.: Elena D), so when people say she WILL a major for sure? :shrug:

I think Caroline is good enough to win majors. But she has to change her attitude at the majors and specially during crunch time. At the majors you've to be KILLER and Caroline just isn't a killer.

Pretty much agreed.
However, like said, she has nothing but time. Once Kim and Serena retire from tennis, I see no reason that she shouldn't be able to attain those hardcourt slams. I'm not convinced she has the game for RG or Wimbledon. The clay field has drastically improved over the last year and I can't see her beating the likes of Kvitova or Lisicki(as long as she remains injury free..) on grass.

Now what would really impress me is if she manages to actually beat the likes of Kim or Serena on her way to one of those hardcourt slams. If she can do that then she can definitely maintain some form of dominance at the USO and AO.
The lack of coaching also seems to be a slight problem for her during the slams. I'd like for her to live up to the strong mentality that she has been known to have.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:09 PM
Thank God it won't happen:lol:
Yes, it will. If scrubs like Sharapova and Li can win slams, then Wozniacki can too.

CWTennis
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:28 PM
of course she will and who the fck is Simon Reed!

Doully
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:31 PM
Yes, it will. If scrubs like Sharapova and Li can win slams, then Wozniacki can too.

:confused:.
Li overcame one of the toughest draws imaginable to win her maiden Grand Slam and has made history for China. Don't be so blase.
I wont even get into your definition of Sharapova as a 'scrub'. She's playing way below par and she's just went SF > F in the last two grand slams. There's nothing 'scrubbish' about those results at all.
Wozniacki can and should have her moment soon enough. Hardcourts are where she shines. Now she needs to prove she can take it that one step further.

doomsday
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:35 PM
Yes, it will. If scrubs like Sharapova and Li can win slams, then Wozniacki can too.

You're still comparing Maria and your beloved pusher :lol: Maria is reaching GS finals again and will certainly be a contender for US Open, Caroline is getting destroyed by non contender at majors since FO and it's getting worse she is losing to the likes of Ciboulette now:help::help:
Btw Sharapova and Li the scrubs like you said lead the H2H over your pusher and are way more accomplished than she'll ever be, just deal with it.

doomsday
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:37 PM
:confused:.
Li overcame one of the toughest draws imaginable to win her maiden Grand Slam and has made history for China. Don't be so blase.
I wont even get into your definition of Sharapova as a 'scrub'. She's playing way below par and she's just went SF > F in the last two grand slams. There's nothing 'scrubbish' about those results at all.
Wozniacki can and should have her moment soon enough. Hardcourts are where she shines. Now she needs to prove she can take it that one step further.

Don't bother, he is just another pressed pusher fan who is still waiting for Caroline to win a major you can perfectly understand his frustration.

Jimmie48
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:39 PM
Btw Sharapova and Li the scrubs like you said lead the H2H over your pusher and are way more accomplished than she'll ever be, just deal with it.

Don't haters like you need a summer break as well? Just take a walk or something, jesus...

doktor
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:42 PM
She's been the last one standing at 100000000000000000000000 tournaments, i cant believe that one of them won't be a slam sooner or later

doomsday
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:45 PM
Don't haters like you need a summer break as well? Just take a walk or something, jesus...

Don't worry about me:lol:

terjw
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:51 PM
Remember there have been girls who are MUCH better than Caroline who HAVEN'T won a major ( e.g.: Elena D), so when people say she WILL a major for sure? :shrug:

I think Caroline is good enough to win majors. But she has to change her attitude at the majors and specially during crunch time. At the majors you've to be KILLER and Caroline just isn't a killer.

:lol: LOL Your opinion whatever that's worth. Don't let facts get in the way. Caro has already overtaken Lena and she's not quite yet 21. She has 17 titles at 20 years old (nearly 21 now) to Lena's 16 titles in her whole career at 29 years old. At Caro's age - many greats hadn't won a slam yet (Justine, Kim, Lindz etc) and had poorer records than Caro at her age. Lena never got near to winning 6 titles in a year or holding 10 in the last 12 months or winning 5 succesive T1 tournaments or reaching #1 or making SF and F at YEC. Caro has 100% record reaching SF at YEC, Lena 0% in many goes.

Caro really came into her own and overtook a lot of players since Wimbledon last year. Since then she's had SF, SF at USO and AO and two disappointing performances on her woprst surfaces with R3, R4 at RG, Wimbledon. Too littlle to judge whether she is or will end up an underperformer in slams. However - after Lena made the Finals twice - she failed to reach R4 on no less than 13 occasions with R1, R2, R3 exits. And you make a meal of Caro's last 2 slam losses on her worst surfaces and that she's much worse than Lena.

Lena has more F and SF at slams than Caro but played way more slams. For "supposedly" Caro's weakness - she still beats Lena at W:L at slams. Caro has a 73.5% winning rate at slams compared to Lena's 72%.

Don't get me wrong. Lena had a fantastic career and was a good player. But Caro has passed her in nearly everything measurable. There's a few things Lena has - she has the Olympic Gold - a fantastic achievement. And in her whole career you can pick out a few weeks that means she's won more SF and F at slams which you'd expect if she's played more. That's just a few special weeks for her in a long career. But the rest of it - Caro has done better and in a much shorter time.

As to the question - Will Caro win a GS. I never do predictions for any player. You never know what can happen in the future. But she has done fantastic up to now and with Petra winning Wimbledon and several other tournaments - it's great to see the young players doing well.

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:52 PM
Caroline Wozniacki will win grand slams. She has so much time on her side, it's ridiculous. She's only 20, going on 21. How many years does she have to win titles??? A LOT. She WILL win tonnes of slams. In my opinion, she will win at least ten slams. When she gets her first, all the pressure will be gone and she will win more and more and more. The haters don't see this, but they don't see anything. The future is Wozniacki.

they been saying the same about Murray too for years
and like Woz both play the same boring way

Matt01
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:53 PM
Don't haters like you need a summer break as well? Just take a walk or something, jesus...


Don't get your hopes up high, most of them don't have any hobbies other than bashing Caro ;)

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:56 PM
they been saying the same about Murray too for years
and like Woz both play the same boring way
Boring? Incorrect.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:57 PM
You're still comparing Maria and your beloved pusher :lol: Maria is reaching GS finals again and will certainly be a contender for US Open, Caroline is getting destroyed by non contender at majors since FO and it's getting worse she is losing to the likes of Ciboulette now:help::help:
Btw Sharapova and Li the scrubs like you said lead the H2H over your pusher and are way more accomplished than she'll ever be, just deal with it.
Wozniacki will end with more slams than both of them put together.

postalblowfish
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:07 PM
I'm not sure this thread is really that necessary, tbh.

Jackdicaprio
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:09 PM
I am a Fan of aggressive tennis but I want caro to win a slam. It's fun to see her long rallies an she played this one match against schiavone in Canada or some place last year and she was really aggressive. I think hard courts are where it's at for her.
US open 2011
AO "12

Break My Rapture
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Wozniacki will end with more slams than both of them put together.
You only express arrogance to cover up for your insecurity, it's too obvious. :lol:

Chrissie-fan
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:13 PM
they been saying the same about Murray too for years
and like Woz both play the same boring way
:lol: Yeah, well, I like all types of tennis if the're done well - including by the way the tennis by power hitters like Sharapova or Kvitova. But PLENTY of matches between so-called "ball bashers" are nothing more than UE festivals, and I sit back and think to myself, "so, this is the tennis I'm supposed to find exciting?" Thanks, but give me good old 'boring Pushniacki' - at least she can keep the ball between the lines for more than two shots in a row.

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:13 PM
Wozniacki will end with more slams than both of them put together.

0x any number is still 0

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:14 PM
You only express arrogance to cover up for your insecurity, it's too obvious. :lol:
I'm quite secure and I'm very confident in what I say about Wozniacki.

Break My Rapture
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:19 PM
I'm quite secure and I'm very confident in what I say about Wozniacki.
Ah yes, you were totally right about her winning Wimbledon too. SO much confidence.

doooma6816
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:49 PM
I think she'll win at least one Slam...in this generation, I mean she's already beat Kvitova on hardcourt...so maybe a few HC Slams. But it's rather obvious that she wouldn't have won any GS in previous years with this game.

Effy
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:59 PM
what a refreshing thread! :hearts:

JCTennisFan
Jul 9th, 2011, 08:40 PM
I believe her problem has neither to do with her temperment or her weapontry or lack their of. The problem actually has everything to do with the fact that her forehand is TOO MUCH of a liability.

A player who goes side to side and defends alot needs to be near equally good off both wings... so that their opponent cant eventually put them out of position due to weak replies off a given wing (in Woz case the FH). Woz, against a good player with strong strokes off both wings, will usually be able to hold up on the BH side, but the FH side will inevitably produce a short reply, a reply that pops up and hangs in the air, etc.. in which case a competent player can then step in and end (or take control of) the point with a winner/unreturnable shot.

If she would fix that dang FH, she would be less likely to be overpowered on that side, allowing her grind/return game more effectiveness, because an opponent would no longer have a side they could easily bully. As it stands now you just have to wait for her to hit the FH all funky and your immediately in the point... even if you werent before she hit said shot.

If she doesnt do SOMETHING to that FH the only way she will manage to win a Slam is if she stumbles into one ala Mauresmo 2006 AO.

Chrissie-fan
Jul 9th, 2011, 08:42 PM
I believe her problem has neither to do with her temperment or her weapontry or lack their of. The problem actually has everything to do with the fact that her forehand is TOO MUCH of a liability.

A player who goes side to side and defends alot needs to be near equally good off both wings... so that their opponent cant eventually put them out of position due to weak replies off a given wing (in Woz case the FH). Woz, against a good player with strong strokes off both wings, will usually be able to hold up on the BH side, but the FH side will inevitably produce a short reply, a reply that pops up and hangs in the air, etc.. in which case a competent player can then step in and end (or take control of) the point with a winner/unreturnable shot.

If she would fix that dang FH, she would be less likely to be overpowered on that side, allowing her grind/return game more effectiveness, because an opponent would no longer have a side they could easily bully. As it stands now you just have to wait for her to hit the FH all funky and your immediately in the point... even if you werent before she hit said shot.
I agree.

Slutiana
Jul 9th, 2011, 08:45 PM
Everyone keeps on saying "she's so young!" "she has all the time in the world!" But over the past 4/5 years, practically every single player who has made it to the top has eventually fallen off out of the top 5/10 and beyond for a slew of different reasons. Can't see why the same won't happen to her.

This issue is so boring and overplayed. But I do find it cute that people expect her to just flip a switch and start playing aggressive tennis - the type of tennis she has never played.

Cajka
Jul 9th, 2011, 10:58 PM
Somehow she will win it. :shrug: But, not yet.

Noctis
Jul 9th, 2011, 11:11 PM
idc tbh.

JCTennisFan
Jul 10th, 2011, 12:18 AM
I do admit that Woz is a superior player to the likes of Safina or current Jankovic (she is not, however, better than peak Jankovic imo..) but her game is still not complete enough to break her out of the "slamless number 1" category. The funny part is all she needs to do to her FH is reduce the takeback! thats it! its just too loopy and she pulls waaaay too far back for it. If she was a power player that big cut would be welcomed... but instead it just makes it hard to time properly for her. I cant imagine that she'd lose any power by simply making that tackback not so exaggerated.

Pops Maellard
Jul 10th, 2011, 12:28 AM
Everyone keeps on saying "she's so young!" "she has all the time in the world!" But over the past 4/5 years, practically every single player who has made it to the top has eventually fallen off out of the top 5/10 and beyond for a slew of different reasons. Can't see why the same won't happen to her.

This issue is so boring and overplayed. But I do find it cute that people expect her to just flip a switch and start playing aggressive tennis - the type of tennis she has never played.

+1

Break My Rapture
Jul 10th, 2011, 12:29 AM
I do admit that Woz is a superior player to the likes of Safina or current Jankovic (she is not, however, better than peak Jankovic imo..) but her game is still not complete enough to break her out of the "slamless number 1" category. The funny part is all she needs to do to her FH is reduce the takeback! thats it! its just too loopy and she pulls waaaay too far back for it. If she was a power player that big cut would be welcomed... but instead it just makes it hard to time properly for her. I cant imagine that she'd lose any power by simply making that tackback not so exaggerated.
The takeback is the reason why her FH is still remotely solid, in other words it's why she's able to play it safer with a decent amount of topspin. I wouldn't even dare to imagine what it looks like if she took away the takeback, must be an even worse shot. All in all, the technique on her FH is incredibly wonky and I think it's too late/risky to make the essential tweaks to the shot in this stage of her career.

lang26
Jul 10th, 2011, 12:46 AM
Yeah I say SHe have a strong chance of winning a grand slam and is still very young, also what people fail to understand is Caro came into tennis at the right time meaning Venus is in her 30 and not at her best when she was younger, Serena is also on 30 mark even through I will say Serena still play great but soon you have to think how long will both of them keeping playing tennis, Kim will soon retire again, Henin is retire, and all the other big name or gone that came out early such as Elena Dementieva,Anastasia Myskina,Lindsay Davenport,Amélie Mauresmo,Martina Hingis,Jennifer Capriati, Mary Pierce and so on. So really tennis is not wat it used to be and if you look at it WTA top player now beside williams sister and kim its Wozniacki,Zvonareva,Azarenka,,Sharapova,Kvitova,Ba rtoli,Pavlyuchenkova,Radwanska,Jankovic.) so the field is wide open for any player to win a grand slam even Hantuchova,Jankovic,Safina still have a chance

!VamosRafa!
Jul 10th, 2011, 12:49 AM
Yeah, sure, whatever...She'll probably win 2.

Valupatitta
Jul 10th, 2011, 12:50 AM
never she sucks

goldlion
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:03 AM
I used to think Caroline needs to play more aggressively but I just realized in one post that it would be something she's never played and she wouldn't be comfortable doing so. And if she really does so, it will cost her ranking which she doesn't want to give up and it's an non-guarantee result. Same said for Sharapova, she couldn't play defensive tennis as once she's put to that situation she will lose because it's against her game nature and also court character. She's been saying she didn't care about the comments of weak no. 1 which I highly doubted. She's more reserved now as a whole and that's pressure. She's not producing great results in slams and that's pressure. She failed to advance to slam final in 2009 and that's pressure. She's almost stubborn to a point that she's doing the wrong things right and believing her time will come.

Her time has actually arrived as shown by her ranking. Otherwise, when should it be? She's supposed to be the best player in the world but where are the results? Our next number one might be a serve and volleyer again like Mauresmo but eventually it's the power tennis rules - Serena, Kim, Kvitova, Sharapova, Na.

So for Caroline, if she has to win big, she has to defend flawlessly. But the problem is, her ability to defend seems to drop gradually. 2010 she was nearly perfect in retrieving but these days, especially the last two months, she seemed so clueless on the court just simply running and trying. I have to say she got figured out by a lot of players and her style of game will soon be 'dethroned'. Consistency is good for a tennis player, but GS material needs more than that: taking risk, absorbing pressure, capture the chances, stable mentality. Kvitova broke through but taking things in a simple way. She didn't think too much and let pressure get into her head during Wimbledon so she succeeded, together with her tennis weapons.

goldlion
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:12 AM
Yeah I say SHe have a strong chance of winning a grand slam and is still very young, also what people fail to understand is Caro came into tennis at the right time meaning Venus is in her 30 and not at her best when she was younger, Serena is also on 30 mark even through I will say Serena still play great but soon you have to think how long will both of them keeping playing tennis, Kim will soon retire again, Henin is retire, and all the other big name or gone that came out early such as Elena Dementieva,Anastasia Myskina,Lindsay Davenport,Amélie Mauresmo,Martina Hingis,Jennifer Capriati, Mary Pierce and so on. So really tennis is not wat it used to be and if you look at it WTA top player now beside williams sister and kim its Wozniacki,Zvonareva,Azarenka,,Sharapova,Kvitova,Ba rtoli,Pavlyuchenkova,Radwanska,Jankovic.) so the field is wide open for any player to win a grand slam even Hantuchova,Jankovic,Safina still have a chance

That's why I will say her time has come. And it's delusional for people to say that Caroline has achieved more than Elena D. Dementieva was competing in a huge different tennis era, full of great players as you've highlighted. I'll also add Sharapova into that category too as she is one of the greats. And the balance of power at that time was pretty even so she's not the best player but definitely not bad. People would regard her results the best she could have achieved during that time because it's hard when the era was full of champions. But now, not many left and Caroline should have established herself as one of the champions and that's what she has to do. Schiavone stepped up at the right time to take her chances, so as Na Li. Caroline needs more than luck to carry her through to the next stage.

Everyone works hard on the tour, and clearly working harder isn't enough for her.

JCTennisFan
Jul 10th, 2011, 02:09 AM
The takeback is the reason why her FH is still remotely solid, in other words it's why she's able to play it safer with a decent amount of topspin. I wouldn't even dare to imagine what it looks like if she took away the takeback, must be an even worse shot. All in all, the technique on her FH is incredibly wonky and I think it's too late/risky to make the essential tweaks to the shot in this stage of her career.

I just cant agree with you here, but I completely respect where you are coming from. That I am aware of, the bigger the takeback, the more power you are able to produce because you are allowing yourself more time to produce raquet head speed acceleration. The william sisters really brought the huge takeback into the forefront, but they are power players. Woz is not, not even close.

The downside though is it is harder to properly time a shot when your takeback is large, because you are producing a longer stroke, which has more potential to be mistimed. A short, compact stroke is difficult to produce your own power with, but its easier to time, and its much easier to defend with. There are simply situations you can get into where you cant/dont have time to produce that big take back, and if it was shortened I believe it would benefit her when pulled wide/out of position. The consequence would be that she wouldnt be able to produce as much of HER OWN power, but Woz is a player that largely likes to REDIRECT power, in which case the shortened stroke should help her.

Watch, amazingly enough, Sharapova when she is forced on the run. The takeback is SUBSTANTIALLY shortened, looks almost like a slice. But when she is in position, she takes a rather large cut. Woz needs to at the VERY LEAST find a balance more like what Sharapova has on her takeback.

And lastly, topspin is great for men, but can get the women into potential problems. Why is this? Because men produce more RPM on their shots, on average, than women do. The higher the rpm, the less a ball will sit up after impact, and is better able to "shoot through" the court after bouncing, maintaining more of its speed and imparting less speed to the ground upon impact. Woz, who really doesnt get much rpm on that forehand at all, is in my opinion actually HURT by producing top spin, because instead of going through the court, her forehand shots more often "sit up" to be punished.

goldlion
Jul 10th, 2011, 04:10 AM
And lastly, topspin is great for men, but can get the women into potential problems. Why is this? Because men produce more RPM on their shots, on average, than women do. The higher the rpm, the less a ball will sit up after impact, and is better able to "shoot through" the court after bouncing, maintaining more of its speed and imparting less speed to the ground upon impact. Woz, who really doesnt get much rpm on that forehand at all, is in my opinion actually HURT by producing top spin, because instead of going through the court, her forehand shots more often "sit up" to be punished.

You pointed out the problem and it definitely isn't a killing shot.

goldenlox
Jul 10th, 2011, 04:13 AM
I think her first, maybe first several majors, will be on hardcourt.
She's holding 5 if the 7 hardcourt Tier I's.
Everything but Miami & Cincy.
Something to shoot for when she starts in Cincy in a few weeks.
Make it 6 of 7 Tier I's on hardcourt at the same time

goldlion
Jul 10th, 2011, 04:20 AM
I think her first, maybe first several majors, will be on hardcourt.
She's holding 5 if the 7 hardcourt Tier I's.
Everything but Miami & Cincy.
Something to shoot for shen she starts in Cincy in a few weeks.
Make it 6 of 7 Tier I's on hardcourt at the same time

Indian Wells, Miami, Toronto/Montreal, Cincinnati, Tokyo, Beijing and which one?

She took the advantage of the absence of Serena, Justine; mediocre Sharapova, part-time Kim, inconsistent Venus, failed in a big stage Zvonareva, collapsed Azarenka, in 2010 to build up her ranking. People say circumstances make man, but Wozniacki's window is closing.

This year it's tougher. Lots of players stepped up: Petkovic, Goerges, Kvitova, Lisicki. Serena returned and Sharapova found her form. It's not as cakewalk as last year anymore so her chance is slimmer and slimmer.

magical21803
Jul 10th, 2011, 04:59 AM
no way ever

lang26
Jul 10th, 2011, 05:18 AM
Indian Wells, Miami, Toronto/Montreal, Cincinnati, Tokyo, Beijing and which one?

She took the advantage of the absence of Serena, Justine; mediocre Sharapova, part-time Kim, inconsistent Venus, failed in a big stage Zvonareva, collapsed Azarenka, in 2010 to build up her ranking. People say circumstances make man, but Wozniacki's window is closing.

This year it's tougher. Lots of players stepped up: Petkovic, Goerges, Kvitova, Lisicki. Serena returned and Sharapova found her form. It's not as cakewalk as last year anymore so her chance is slimmer and slimmer.

I think she got petkovic number now after make that big come in Stuttgart, Goerges game seem better on clay than hardcourt but yeah Goerges someone to look out Sernea and lisicki Sharapova Yeah that really some name that could give her trouble but again like I said in last thread in this era she in the field is so wide open any body can win a slam now a days

Steven.
Jul 10th, 2011, 05:36 AM
Indian Wells, Miami, Toronto/Montreal, Cincinnati, Tokyo, Beijing and which one?

Dubai.

PMBH
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:03 AM
Remember there have been girls who are MUCH better than Caroline who HAVEN'T won a major ( e.g.: Elena D), so when people say she WILL a major for sure? :shrug:


What are you talking about? Woz owns Dementieva in terms of H2H (5-3), highest ranking (1 vs. 3), no. of WTA tournament wins (17-16), no. of Top Tier wins, and many more indicators. Caro also made her first slam final much earlier in her career than Dementieva. All this despite the fact that Elena's career is already over and Caro's has barely begun.

Back on topic: Caro will probably win between 3 and 5 slams during her career. She'll never dominate the tour like, say, Serena or Henin did at various points but she'll always be a contender for the big titles. I don't think she can win Wimbledon but RG is not out of the question when she gets a bit more experienced. However, the hardcourt tournaments will always be her primary forte.

goldlion
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:15 AM
ranking wise Woz is dominating just like Justine Henin but you can feel that Justine was the favorite when she ranked number 1 in any tournament and she proved it. Woz can't.

Expat
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:22 AM
woz is much better than elena dementieva. demented was totally content being a bridesmaid and couldn't win a slam even if mommy vera's life depended on it. woz has a better chance than her though i am not sure if her game is enough to win a slam.

Sam L
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:33 AM
She could probably become a Kim Clijsters. Sneak in a win a few hard court slams when nobody suspects after being written off as a slamless no. 1.

It would help if she took time off, maybe get pregnant and retool her game and then come back a few weeks before a slam.

BepaMaria
Jul 10th, 2011, 07:32 AM
A big nono. Pushers do not win slams. Pushfina and Pushkovic didn't win slams, Pushniacki will not win one either:shrug:

Pops Maellard
Jul 10th, 2011, 07:37 AM
A big nono. Pushers do not win slams. Pushfina and Pushkovic didn't win slams, Pushniacki will not win one either:shrug:
Um what? Neither are pushers but Zvonareva's far closer to pusher than Safina is (at least was at the time she was competing for slams).

bandabou
Jul 10th, 2011, 07:56 AM
:lol: LOL Your opinion whatever that's worth. Don't let facts get in the way. Caro has already overtaken Lena and she's not quite yet 21. She has 17 titles at 20 years old (nearly 21 now) to Lena's 16 titles in her whole career at 29 years old. At Caro's age - many greats hadn't won a slam yet (Justine, Kim, Lindz etc) and had poorer records than Caro at her age. Lena never got near to winning 6 titles in a year or holding 10 in the last 12 months or winning 5 succesive T1 tournaments or reaching #1 or making SF and F at YEC. Caro has 100% record reaching SF at YEC, Lena 0% in many goes.

Caro really came into her own and overtook a lot of players since Wimbledon last year. Since then she's had SF, SF at USO and AO and two disappointing performances on her woprst surfaces with R3, R4 at RG, Wimbledon. Too littlle to judge whether she is or will end up an underperformer in slams. However - after Lena made the Finals twice - she failed to reach R4 on no less than 13 occasions with R1, R2, R3 exits. And you make a meal of Caro's last 2 slam losses on her worst surfaces and that she's much worse than Lena.

Lena has more F and SF at slams than Caro but played way more slams. For "supposedly" Caro's weakness - she still beats Lena at W:L at slams. Caro has a 73.5% winning rate at slams compared to Lena's 72%.

Don't get me wrong. Lena had a fantastic career and was a good player. But Caro has passed her in nearly everything measurable. There's a few things Lena has - she has the Olympic Gold - a fantastic achievement. And in her whole career you can pick out a few weeks that means she's won more SF and F at slams which you'd expect if she's played more. That's just a few special weeks for her in a long career. But the rest of it - Caro has done better and in a much shorter time.

As to the question - Will Caro win a GS. I never do predictions for any player. You never know what can happen in the future. But she has done fantastic up to now and with Petra winning Wimbledon and several other tournaments - it's great to see the young players doing well.

:secret: WS/Belgians-era. Put Caroline in that era and she would have even worse results at the majors than she's having right now.

Steven.
Jul 10th, 2011, 08:14 AM
A big nono. Pushers do not win slams. Pushfina and Pushkovic didn't win slams, Pushniacki will not win one either:shrug:

:facepalm: Safina and Jankovic are far from pushers.

Pops Maellard
Jul 10th, 2011, 08:17 AM
:lol: LOL Your opinion whatever that's worth. Don't let facts get in the way. Caro has already overtaken Lena and she's not quite yet 21. She has 17 titles at 20 years old (nearly 21 now) to Lena's 16 titles in her whole career at 29 years old. At Caro's age - many greats hadn't won a slam yet (Justine, Kim, Lindz etc) and had poorer records than Caro at her age. Lena never got near to winning 6 titles in a year or holding 10 in the last 12 months or winning 5 succesive T1 tournaments or reaching #1 or making SF and F at YEC. Caro has 100% record reaching SF at YEC, Lena 0% in many goes.

Caro really came into her own and overtook a lot of players since Wimbledon last year. Since then she's had SF, SF at USO and AO and two disappointing performances on her woprst surfaces with R3, R4 at RG, Wimbledon. Too littlle to judge whether she is or will end up an underperformer in slams. However - after Lena made the Finals twice - she failed to reach R4 on no less than 13 occasions with R1, R2, R3 exits. And you make a meal of Caro's last 2 slam losses on her worst surfaces and that she's much worse than Lena.

Lena has more F and SF at slams than Caro but played way more slams. For "supposedly" Caro's weakness - she still beats Lena at W:L at slams. Caro has a 73.5% winning rate at slams compared to Lena's 72%.

Don't get me wrong. Lena had a fantastic career and was a good player. But Caro has passed her in nearly everything measurable. There's a few things Lena has - she has the Olympic Gold - a fantastic achievement. And in her whole career you can pick out a few weeks that means she's won more SF and F at slams which you'd expect if she's played more. That's just a few special weeks for her in a long career. But the rest of it - Caro has done better and in a much shorter time.

As to the question - Will Caro win a GS. I never do predictions for any player. You never know what can happen in the future. But she has done fantastic up to now and with Petra winning Wimbledon and several other tournaments - it's great to see the young players doing well.

Consider the difference in competition level though. :o

Lena beat a high-ranked Mauresmo x2 and JCap to reach her slam finals. Caro beat Oudin and Wickmayer.

I think that about sums up the two eras. :lol:

goldlion
Jul 10th, 2011, 08:34 AM
Consider the difference in competition level though. :o

Lena beat a high-ranked Mauresmo x2 and JCap to reach her slam finals. Caro beat Oudin and Wickmayer.

I think that about sums up the two eras. :lol:

That's exactly right. 2004 - 2008 were good years for tennis in the last decade with Kim, Maria and Amelie becoming grand slam winners.

borrowedheaven
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:12 AM
She could probably become a Kim Clijsters. Sneak in a win a few hard court slams when nobody suspects after being written off as a slamless no. 1.

It would help if she took time off, maybe get pregnant and retool her game and then come back a few weeks before a slam.

The difference is that Kim was consistently making deep runs at slams on every surface but always failed to bring her best tennis at the big stage. She was beating everybody outside the slams and always had the game to win slams.
The discussion with Caro is more whether she has the weapons or not.

She must improve her forehand, and she has to be able to take play in her hands at the important moments. But I really think she will win a slam someday, although it worries me that it doesn't seem to be a priority to her.

Mistress of Evil
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:41 AM
After seeing, Schiavone winning a Slam being 30 :spit: I see no reason to write Karolina0 off :shrug:

terjw
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:09 AM
ranking wise Woz is dominating just like Justine Henin but you can feel that Justine was the favorite when she ranked number 1 in any tournament and she proved it. Woz can't.

Caro has been dominating in terms of tournament wins and consequently ranking these last year and you can't take that away from her Bringing in Justine here who did that in 2007 you are talking about an all time great with 7 slam titles! Why are you off-topic blabberring on about this? This thread is about whether Caro will win a grand slam - not become an all time great and multiple slam wimmer.

Matt01
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:28 PM
Consider the difference in competition level though. :o

Lena beat a high-ranked Mauresmo x2 and JCap to reach her slam finals. Caro beat Oudin and Wickmayer.

I think that about sums up the two eras. :lol:


Wozniacki beat Mauresmo to reach a Premier Mandatory final and beat Slam holder Kuznetsova to reach her Slam final. Way to twist the facts :rolleyes:

Steven.
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:31 PM
Wozniacki beat Mauresmo to reach a Premier Mandatory final and beat Slam holder Kuznetsova to reach her Slam final. Way to twist the facts :rolleyes:

:hysteric: you forgot to add 'during the twilight of her career'

goldenlox
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:36 PM
Caro beat Kuznetsova in 2009 USO, Sharapova in 2010 USO.
Both had won USO & at the time were considered contenders when Caro beat them.

On hardcourts she is the current holder of 5 Tier I's with wins over Sveta, Maria, Petra, Ana, Fran, Marion, Dementieva, Nastia, Jelena, Vika, Vera, and on and on. Lost a close YEC final to Kim, had AO match point against Li

Caro's right there. She just needs to play near her best in week 2.

18majors
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:38 PM
She can't until she does.

18majors
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:42 PM
She hasn't done it and the future is unknown.

doomsday
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:45 PM
Caro beat Kuznetsova in 2009 USO, Sharapova in 2010 USO.
Both had won USO & at the time were considered contenders when Caro beat them.

On hardcourts she is the current holder of 5 Tier I's with wins over Sveta, Maria, Petra, Ana, Jelena, Vika, Vera, and on and on. Lost a close YEC final to Kim, had AO match point against Li

Caro's right there. She just needs to play near her best in week 2.

This year is different she is losing against non contender at majors, confidence isn't going to be the same coming in US we'll see how she performs on US courts but I think her last two losses at majors were worrying, more worrying than last year.

bandabou
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:54 PM
Wozniacki beat Mauresmo to reach a Premier Mandatory final and beat Slam holder Kuznetsova to reach her Slam final. Way to twist the facts :rolleyes:

:lol: Welll...Caro has reached the SF 3 times in her career..her opponents Wickmayer, Zvonareva and Li. It isn't hard to guess and see when is the only time she won and advanced to the F. ;)

goldenlox
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:56 PM
This is Caroline's best start to a year. First time to an AO SF, then had match point against Li, who's been the best player at majors this year.
She beat Maria & Marion to win IW, beat Sveta & Jelena to win Dubai.
She never had great runs at FO & Wimbledon. Always plays her best after Wimbledon.

LCS
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:57 PM
Yes.

doomsday
Jul 10th, 2011, 02:01 PM
This is Caroline's best start to a year. First time to an AO SF, then had match point against Li, sho's been the best player at majors this year.
She beat Maria & Marion to win IW, beat Sveta & Jelena to win Dubai.
She never had great runs at FO & Wimbledon. Always plays her best after Wimbledon.

I remember her fans saying that Caroline never had amazing runs at the start of the year in her career either but this year was different where she won plenty of titles, if you ask me I think Caroline tired herself in this beginning of the season I don't expect her to win bunch of titles like she did last year after Wimbledon, she already decided to play less events.

18majors
Jul 10th, 2011, 02:04 PM
My bet is that Woz won't win any more titles in 2011 but time will tell.

Matt01
Jul 10th, 2011, 02:04 PM
:hysteric: you forgot to add 'during the twilight of her career'


She beat Dementieva in that same tournament so it always works both ways :lol:
And I could also add that Mauresmo choked that US Open match against Dementieva away. It was awful :tape:

Matt01
Jul 10th, 2011, 02:08 PM
My bet is that Woz won't win any more titles in 2011


Hater :p

Siderophyre
Jul 10th, 2011, 02:10 PM
Please let her win one if only to put an end to this boring debate. I'm not a fan, but my god she's just a kid and has to put up with piles of shit being dumped on her. So I'll give her a US Open or an Oz Open.

BartoliBabes
Jul 10th, 2011, 02:19 PM
she can

whether you like it or not

dsanders06
Jul 10th, 2011, 02:42 PM
Caro beat Kuznetsova in 2009 USO, Sharapova in 2010 USO.
Both had won USO & at the time were considered contenders when Caro beat them.

On hardcourts she is the current holder of 5 Tier I's with wins over Sveta, Maria, Petra, Ana, Fran, Marion, Dementieva, Nastia, Jelena, Vika, Vera, and on and on. Lost a close YEC final to Kim, had AO match point against Li

Caro's right there. She just needs to play near her best in week 2.

I don't think anyone considered Kuznetsova a genuine contender at the 2009 USO - she'd been in horrible form since winning RG that year, and bookies ranked her as only the 8th favourite or something to win the USO (Wozniacki herself went into the tournament with only slightly longer odds). Sharapova at the USO'10, yes - and that remains Wozniacki's only bonafide huge win at a Slam to date.

dsanders06
Jul 10th, 2011, 02:59 PM
And you make a meal of Caro's last 2 slam losses on her worst surfaces and that she's much worse than Lena.

No-one would've considered Wozniacki failing to win either RG or Wimbledon a failure, but the fact she lost to total non-contenders who were playing on THEIR worst surfaces should be very worrying. The fact is that, in 3 of the 4 Slams in the past 12 months, Wozniacki has gone out in matches where she was the heavy favourite, to players which she almost always beats outside of Slams. Only the Australian Open can really be considered a success for her in terms of Slams in the past 12 months. Since she made her breakthrough at the US Open two years ago, her trajectory at Slams has been pretty much flat: F-4R-QF-4R-SF-SF-3R-4R. There's no indication there at all that she's about to suddenly accelerate and break her Slams duck.

I believe her problem has neither to do with her temperment or her weapontry or lack their of. The problem actually has everything to do with the fact that her forehand is TOO MUCH of a liability.

A player who goes side to side and defends alot needs to be near equally good off both wings... so that their opponent cant eventually put them out of position due to weak replies off a given wing (in Woz case the FH). Woz, against a good player with strong strokes off both wings, will usually be able to hold up on the BH side, but the FH side will inevitably produce a short reply, a reply that pops up and hangs in the air, etc.. in which case a competent player can then step in and end (or take control of) the point with a winner/unreturnable shot.

If she would fix that dang FH, she would be less likely to be overpowered on that side, allowing her grind/return game more effectiveness, because an opponent would no longer have a side they could easily bully. As it stands now you just have to wait for her to hit the FH all funky and your immediately in the point... even if you werent before she hit said shot.

If she doesnt do SOMETHING to that FH the only way she will manage to win a Slam is if she stumbles into one ala Mauresmo 2006 AO.

I disagree actually, I don't think her forehand is one of her biggest problems. It's actually improved a hell of a lot over the last couple of years - she used to only be able to moonball it, and couldn't handle any sort of pace from her opponent on that wing at all. It's never going to be a weapon, but now atleast, it's a solid shot which she can usually hit pretty deep into the court, and which rarely breaks down. I think the fh is about as good as it's going to get.

For me, the keys for her atm need to be her serve and backhand. Although she's always going to be primarily a defensive player, she still needs a 'kill' shot that can end the points when she's firmly in control - and I think her backhand is the only one that could fit the bill. She needs to go and study videos of Jankovic in her prime and see how, even though like Wozniacki she structured her game around defense, she still smacked backhands down the line when the opportunity was there. I think Wozniacki's bh is technically capable of being similar, but too often, she traps herself in a defensive mindset (particularly at Slams), and, when the opportunity to kill off a point with a bh presents itself, she just bunts it back into play and lets her opponent back in. And she also needs to up the mph's on her first serve to get more free points off it. So, those are the things she should be working on ahead of the US hardcourt season imo ... but ofcourse, she's limited any chances for immediate improvement by injuring herself in playing that pointless Swedish tournament.

Break My Rapture
Jul 10th, 2011, 03:22 PM
I just cant agree with you here, but I completely respect where you are coming from. That I am aware of, the bigger the takeback, the more power you are able to produce because you are allowing yourself more time to produce raquet head speed acceleration. The william sisters really brought the huge takeback into the forefront, but they are power players. Woz is not, not even close.

The downside though is it is harder to properly time a shot when your takeback is large, because you are producing a longer stroke, which has more potential to be mistimed. A short, compact stroke is difficult to produce your own power with, but its easier to time, and its much easier to defend with. There are simply situations you can get into where you cant/dont have time to produce that big take back, and if it was shortened I believe it would benefit her when pulled wide/out of position. The consequence would be that she wouldnt be able to produce as much of HER OWN power, but Woz is a player that largely likes to REDIRECT power, in which case the shortened stroke should help her.

Watch, amazingly enough, Sharapova when she is forced on the run. The takeback is SUBSTANTIALLY shortened, looks almost like a slice. But when she is in position, she takes a rather large cut. Woz needs to at the VERY LEAST find a balance more like what Sharapova has on her takeback.

And lastly, topspin is great for men, but can get the women into potential problems. Why is this? Because men produce more RPM on their shots, on average, than women do. The higher the rpm, the less a ball will sit up after impact, and is better able to "shoot through" the court after bouncing, maintaining more of its speed and imparting less speed to the ground upon impact. Woz, who really doesnt get much rpm on that forehand at all, is in my opinion actually HURT by producing top spin, because instead of going through the court, her forehand shots more often "sit up" to be punished.
I agree, but if she would shorten her takeback in a regular position it would make for an even less effective FH I think. Less power and less time to put topspin on it. And as you said, it only helps in a defensive position which Wozniacki already does IMO, she already stops making her takeback and just starts scrambling it up when she is on the extreme defensive. But you do have a point in all what you said there.

sweetpeas
Jul 10th, 2011, 03:25 PM
Yes!

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 10th, 2011, 03:28 PM
My bet is that Woz won't win any more titles in 2011 but time will tell.
I have this feeling that you might be an idiot.

terjw
Jul 10th, 2011, 03:49 PM
No-one would've considered Wozniacki failing to win either RG or Wimbledon a failure, but the fact she lost to total non-contenders who were playing on THEIR worst surfaces should be very worrying. The fact is that, in 3 of the 4 Slams in the past 12 months, Wozniacki has gone out in matches where she was the heavy favourite, to players which she almost always beats outside of Slams. Only the Australian Open can really be considered a success for her in terms of Slams in the past 12 months. Since she made her breakthrough at the US Open two years ago, her trajectory at Slams has been pretty much flat: F-4R-QF-4R-SF-SF-3R-4R. There's no indication there at all that she's about to suddenly accelerate and break her Slams duck.



I agree that there's no indication yet at Wimbledon or RG from her results of improvement there yet. But it's 2 bad results on her 2 worst surfaces since she won her first T1 event. And yet that's supposed to be worrying whilst any bad result by any other player at a slam isn't. Her record at the USO - F and SF - is a great record. If she keeps up with always making SF at least - you can't rule her out of winning. Whist at AO she's improved.

What about nitpicking other players odd bad slam results on their worst surfaces they get from time to time at 20 years old as evidence they will never win a slam. While we are at it. Lindz was a prolific winner of titles but when she was 1 month older than Caro - her last 8 slam results were 2R, 4R, QF, 2R, 4R, 4R, 4R, 2R. No improvement there and three 2R exits! She got to #1 the next year. And at the end of that year she won her first slam at 22. Yet where was the evidence on that sequence of slam results of improvement.

It's always the double standards when talking about Caro that are not applied to others. That win doesn't count, No good at slams because of that 3R loss art RG. Blaa blaa blaa.

marineblue
Jul 10th, 2011, 04:27 PM
I think if she was under the pressure as much as you say we´d see a fall similar to Safina/Ivanovic´s slump. I think she has (had to) live with the criticism and got (finally) tougher when it comes to the communication with the media.

Bingain
Jul 10th, 2011, 04:30 PM
For me, the keys for her atm need to be her serve and backhand. Although she's always going to be primarily a defensive player, she still needs a 'kill' shot that can end the points when she's firmly in control - and I think her backhand is the only one that could fit the bill. She needs to go and study videos of Jankovic in her prime and see how, even though like Wozniacki she structured her game around defense, she still smacked backhands down the line when the opportunity was there. I think Wozniacki's bh is technically capable of being similar, but too often, she traps herself in a defensive mindset (particularly at Slams), and, when the opportunity to kill off a point with a bh presents itself, she just bunts it back into play and lets her opponent back in. And she also needs to up the mph's on her first serve to get more free points off it. So, those are the things she should be working on ahead of the US hardcourt season imo ... but ofcourse, she's limited any chances for immediate improvement by injuring herself in playing that pointless Swedish tournament.

Woz's habbet or inability to finish off points is way more psychological than about her capability. She can hit DTL off both wings (even fluffy from FH they work when the opponent is expecting & preparing for CC rally) but these are kind of last resources to her as her game is built around the concept that most tennis matches are lost instead of won. I agree she needs to improve but her biggest problem is not she can't do anything but she won't.

I think her biggest problems in the offensive ends are:

a) her refusal to step into the court when "the moment is right" and take the ball earlier. She can't hit hard, but taking a short ball earlier has the same effect.

b) Her inexperience and thus inability to make continuous aggressive shots under severe pressure. There have been times when she was in desperate moments and she needed to do aggressively. she would hit a winner, and go aggressively on the next, and more often than not she would miss the second or the third. This way of beating is not in her blood. Not yet. She needs to specifically train for this, game-wise and mentally. Unlike the general concept of tennis matches more often lost than won, on the biggest stages it is often whoever able to step up wins it.

These are fix-able problems and I hope she'll get there ASAP.

dsanders06
Jul 10th, 2011, 04:59 PM
I agree that there's no indication yet at Wimbledon or RG from her results of improvement there yet. But it's 2 bad results on her 2 worst surfaces since she won her first T1 event. And yet that's supposed to be worrying whilst any bad result by any other player at a slam isn't. Her record at the USO - F and SF - is a great record. If she keeps up with always making SF at least - you can't rule her out of winning. Whist at AO she's improved.

It's a great record generally speaking, but for the world #1 at supposedly her best Slam, losing easily in the semis to Zvonareva, who went onto get thrashed in the final, has to be described as a big underperformance. Also, there really isn't that much difference between the surfaces these days at all, so if she can lose to Hantuchova at RG / Cibulkova at Wimbledon, she could theoretically lose to them at the US Open too (especially as those players were on their own worst surfaces too).

What about nitpicking other players odd bad slam results on their worst surfaces they get from time to time at 20 years old as evidence they will never win a slam. While we are at it. Lindz was a prolific winner of titles but when she was 1 month older than Caro - her last 8 slam results were 2R, 4R, QF, 2R, 4R, 4R, 4R, 2R. No improvement there and three 2R exits! She got to #1 the next year. And at the end of that year she won her first slam at 22. Yet where was the evidence on that sequence of slam results of improvement.

You have a point about Davenport, and therefore, no-one can credibly categorically state Wozniacki will DEFINITELY never win a Slam. But equally ridiculous is that some of her fans have been stating she definitely WILL win a Slam just because she's had so much success outside of Slams at the age of 20, and the whole "my time will come" philosophy. For one thing, Davenport is very much an exception rather than the rule. And for another, there are many examples in recent years of players whose best days were already behind them by the time they hit their 21st birthday (Ivanovic, Vaidisova, even Sharapova). Plus, while some here overexaggerate the weak state of the game, it's pretty much beyond dispute that the game has been in a transitional period of late, with the "old guard" struggling with motivation/fitness/form, and the new generation inconsistent... but with the latter maybe now settling down, and the former maybe having a late flourish, it's only going to get harder for Wozniacki from here on.

No-one can say for sure eitherway whether Wozniacki will win a Slam, but her stubborn refusal to listen to reasonable critics about her schedule, modifying her game or her approach to the Slams doesn't bode well.

terjw
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:00 PM
Just a few points:

It's a great record generally speaking, but for the world #1 at supposedly her best Slam, losing easily in the semis to Zvonareva, who went onto get thrashed in the final, has to be described as a big underperformance. Also, there really isn't that much difference between the surfaces these days at all, so if she can lose to Hantuchova at RG / Cibulkova at Wimbledon, she could theoretically lose to them at the US Open too (especially as those players were on their own worst surfaces too)..

This is really a ridiculous statement that there isn't much difference between surfaces. Why has Wimbledon been dominatted by the WS so much whereas a Williams has only won RG once - back in 2002. Why has Justine done do well at RG, Kim at USO and hard courts, Petra now at Wimbledon. There is no logic to say because she did bad there - she'll do bad at all slams whatever the surface. And her results at the respective slams with different surfaces and the way she's played at tournaments so far suggests otherwise.

You have a point about Davenport, and therefore, no-one can credibly categorically state Wozniacki will DEFINITELY never win a Slam. But equally ridiculous is that some of her fans have been stating she definitely WILL win a Slam just because she's had so much success outside of Slams at the age of 20, and the whole "my time will come" philosophy. For one thing, Davenport is very much an exception rather than the rule. And for another, there are many examples in recent years of players whose best days were already behind them by the time they hit their 21st birthday (Ivanovic, Vaidisova, even Sharapova). Plus, while some here overexaggerate the weak state of the game, it's pretty much beyond dispute that the game has been in a transitional period of late, with the "old guard" struggling with motivation/fitness/form, and the new generation inconsistent... but with the latter maybe now settling down, and the former maybe having a late flourish, it's only going to get harder for Wozniacki from here on.

Well I don't predict. The key is if she can continue with her USO and AO results and always make at least SF. And a bonus if she improves at the other two slams where it's unlikely she'll do worse. If she can - then just the Mathematical odds suggests it is likely that one of these time she can go all the way. That's as far as I ever go.

Way way overexaggerated that the game was better in the old days like an old man saying "In my day blaa blaa blaa". When the list of great players is reeled off - firstly when were they actually fit and playing at the same time. And second - when did they play well when they did play. We can all remember their best games and forget their bad days. No I don't accept the weak era argument which also ignores the depth. More and more nowadays there are players around who on their day can upset any top player but who lack the consistency for a top ranking.

No-one can say for sure eitherway whether Wozniacki will win a Slam, but her stubborn refusal to listen to reasonable critics about her schedule, modifying her game or her approach to the Slams doesn't bode well.

As for the last point - the last thing she should do is listen to her gloomy detractors for their advice. I can say for sure if she listened to them and tried to follow their advice and worried herself about them - in which she can never do anything right anyway - she will never win a slam for sure. How she should answer the questions, how she should schedule etc. There is no shred of evidence that the results would be better in any of the slams if she'd done anything different and listened to them as opposed to her team and the people she trusts.

goldenlox
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:03 PM
...



As for the last point - the last thing she should do is listen to her gloomy detractors for their advice....This is so true! Every idiot thinks they are THE expert in how to win a major.
Just give them a keyboard and they have all the answers :rolleyes:

Jimmie48
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:11 PM
No-one can say for sure eitherway whether Wozniacki will win a Slam, but her stubborn refusal to listen to reasonable critics about her schedule, modifying her game or her approach to the Slams doesn't bode well.

Maybe your reasonable advice isn't as brilliant as you think? In her latest blog she (once again) explained her schedule and it makes all the sense in the world... your opinion is nothing but that..opinion! And since she's the one who knows best what she needs to do to perform best I take her word over yours any day, thank you!

MaBaker
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:14 PM
No.

Chrissie-fan
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:26 PM
Maybe your reasonable advice isn't as brilliant as you think? In her latest blog she (once again) explained her schedule and it makes all the sense in the world... your opinion is nothing but that..opinion! And since she's the one who knows best what she needs to do to perform best I take her word over yours any day, thank you!
Look at it this way: Even when she fails she makes a whole lot of people happy. They don't call her sunshine for nothing! ;)

ardley
Jul 10th, 2011, 06:38 PM
May be firstly she has to beat some top-player on GS ??:shrug:
Last two years she never beat top-15 there except exhausted Schiavone

Stonerpova
Jul 10th, 2011, 07:17 PM
She'll need some serious help with the draw (like she got during the 09 US Open) and to face a player with less experience than her in the final. Odds are she'll eventually win several, especially because 2012 is apparently going to bring mass retirements for lots of top players.

Noctis
Jul 10th, 2011, 07:19 PM
She probaly well,whos gunna Stop her whens shes 26/27 and everyone else retires.

dsanders06
Jul 10th, 2011, 08:07 PM
As for the last point - the last thing she should do is listen to her gloomy detractors for their advice. I can say for sure if she listened to them and tried to follow their advice and worried herself about them - in which she can never do anything right anyway - she will never win a slam for sure. How she should answer the questions, how she should schedule etc. There is no shred of evidence that the results would be better in any of the slams if she'd done anything different and listened to them as opposed to her team and the people she trusts.

Maybe your reasonable advice isn't as brilliant as you think? In her latest blog she (once again) explained her schedule and it makes all the sense in the world... your opinion is nothing but that..opinion! And since she's the one who knows best what she needs to do to perform best I take her word over yours any day, thank you!

You guys think that Wozniacki and her father know better than the likes of John McEnroe and Lindsay Davenport, both of whom criticised her scheduling and said she needed to stop chasing appearance fees? :help:

Also, if her latest blog post is the thing that was posted in GM the other day, she said something like "I only play the tournaments that I have to" ... I must've missed the WTA announcing Bastad and New Haven were Premier Mandatories :lol:

terjw
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:11 PM
You guys think that Wozniacki and her father know better than the likes of John McEnroe and Lindsay Davenport, both of whom criticised her scheduling and said she needed to stop chasing appearance fees? :help:


Yes the people close to Caro will be better placed to know shen she's tired and talk with her what her best schedule is given what she must play as stated in the rules (13) and that she plays in her home tournament and plays a warmup for each of the 4 slams (+5). Doesn't matter how good a tennis player was themselves - they need to know you before they can be the best judges of your schedule, training. etc. And it most certainly isn't you. :lol:

Furthermore please supply a link or proof that they said "she needs to stop chasing appearance fees" - I expect that's a lie you made up.

Incidentally - I said I didn't make predictions. But Lindz at Wimbledon did. And she said Caro will definitelty win a slam. Using your own words - do you think you know better than the likes of Lindsay? :lol:

DefyingGravity
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:24 PM
I think it depends on the rest of the field. If the rest of the field begin to play with more consistency as well as hit harder than Caroline, that's gonna be tough for her to go through that from 4R-F, because someone is bound to poke holes in her game with a consistent aggression like Hantuchova did even (where it was an all court aggression).

If the field stays the way it is and hits the ball out after 3 shots, she's got a great chance because she can just wear them down and force them to cut margins too close.

I think she will win a couple, and one of those will be Roland Garros. She's going to get better on clay.

edificio
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:25 PM
She's 21. She has time. I think she will win a slam.

Matt01
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:35 PM
Yes the people close to Caro will be better placed to know shen she's tired and her bast schedule is given what she must play as stated in the rules (13) and that she plays in her home tournament and plays a warmup for each of the 4 slams (+5). Doesn't matter how good a tennis player was - they need to know you before they can be the best judges of your schedule. And it most certainly isn't you. :lol:


Nah, don't underestimate dsanders, he follows Caro and her career so closely, he's so obsessed with her, he know better than anyone else ;)

terjw
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:37 PM
She's 21. She has time. I think she will win a slam.

Not till tomorrow (Monday) :angel:

terjw
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:38 PM
Nah, don't underestimate dsanders, he follows Caro and her career so closely, he's so obsessed with her, he know better than anyone else ;)

:lol:

Jimmie48
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:38 PM
You guys think that Wozniacki and her father know better than the likes of John McEnroe and Lindsay Davenport, both of whom criticised her scheduling and said she needed to stop chasing appearance fees? :help:

Also, if her latest blog post is the thing that was posted in GM the other day, she said something like "I only play the tournaments that I have to" ... I must've missed the WTA announcing Bastad and New Haven were Premier Mandatories :lol:

Statements like these are proof that you want to criticise her no matter what, you don't even want to acknowledge her points. She clearly explained that there are tournaments she has to play and some she likes to play to prepare for the slams (New Haven falls into this category). And lastly, there are her two home tournaments (Copenhagen & Bastad) she wants to play to allow the local fans to see her play and inspire the young kids.

She explained all this and yet to make it sound like she claimed New Haven and Bastad's are tournaments she has to play.... a really pathetic attempt to try and put words in her mouth.

And finally, when will you understand that there is no general rule that applies to every player? If McEnroe and Davenport liked to play less tournaments and it worked for them then that's fine... but if Caro says she wants to play a lot to prepare who are you to tell her she's wrong? Again, this is just an opinion and just because some former players share your view dosen't mean it's right.

dsanders06
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:53 PM
Yes the people close to Caro will be better placed to know shen she's tired and talk with her what her best schedule is given what she must play as stated in the rules (13) and that she plays in her home tournament and plays a warmup for each of the 4 slams (+5). Doesn't matter how good a tennis player was themselves - they need to know you before they can be the best judges of your schedule, training. etc. And it most certainly isn't you. :lol:

The people close to Caro don't know how to win Slams, unlike McEnroe, Davenport, and also I forgot Navratilova. Has there been ANY Slam champion who's publicly said Wozniacki's schedule is a good thing? Indeed, has there been any Slam champion in the past 10 years who's played as many tournaments a year as Wozniacki does?

Furthermore please supply a link or proof that they said "she needs to stop chasing appearance fees" - I expect that's a lie you made up.

Obviously that's my phraseology, but what McEnroe did say, after Davenport had implied that Wozniacki played Brussels for the appearance fee, McEnroe said she and her father need to "look at the bigger picture" and "realise there's a bigger pot at the end of the rainbow in terms of endorsements if she wins a Slam, even if she loses out in the short term".

Incidentally - I said I didn't make predictions. But Lindz at Wimbledon did. And she said Caro will definitelty win a slam. Using your own words - do you think you know better than the likes of Lindsay? :lol:

Please find me where I said Wozniacki will definitely not win a Slam - indeed, I do believe I said that anyone who DID say that was being silly.

But in any case, if you're talking about the Davenport interview I'm thinking of (on Today at Wimbledon on one of the first nights... although maybe you're referring to a different one that I didn't see), her comment on Wozniacki winning a Slam was more qualified. It was more words to the effect of "There's no doubt in my mind that Wozniacki has the talent to win atleast one Slam, but she needs to develop a game that's more aggressive at the key moments and she needs to listen to the people who've won Slams about her schedule".

dsanders06
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:59 PM
Statements like these are proof that you want to criticise her no matter what, you don't even want to acknowledge her points. She clearly explained that there are tournaments she has to play and some she likes to play to prepare for the slams (New Haven falls into this category). And lastly, there are her two home tournaments (Copenhagen & Bastad) she wants to play to allow the local fans to see her play and inspire the young kids.

She explained all this and yet to make it sound like she claimed New Haven and Bastad's are tournaments she has to play.... a really pathetic attempt to try and put words in her mouth.

And finally, when will you understand that there is no general rule that applies to every player? If McEnroe and Davenport liked to play less tournaments and it worked for them then that's fine... but if Caro says she wants to play a lot to prepare who are you to tell her she's wrong? Again, this is just an opinion and just because some former players share your view dosen't mean it's right.

I'm not saying she's "wrong" per se, I'm just saying she's not going to win Slams that way. No-one ever wins a Slam if they've been playing 3/4 weeks in a row beforehand, because it means they can't dig deep at the crucial juncture of a Slam like the other more well-rested top players can (the eexception being Wimbledon, where everyone's in the same boat).

vixter
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:48 PM
they been saying the same about Murray too for years
and like Woz both play the same boring way

Now I spilled my evening coffee. Wozniacki is good but Murray is a great player and they don't play the
'same boring way'. Don't put them in the same sentence. Well they are both very good-looking especially Andy.. :hearts: They would make great kids.

terjw
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:49 PM
But in any case, if you're talking about the Davenport interview I'm thinking of (on Today at Wimbledon on one of the first nights... although maybe you're referring to a different one that I didn't see), her comment on Wozniacki winning a Slam was more qualified. It was more words to the effect of "There's no doubt in my mind that Wozniacki has the talent to win atleast one Slam, but she needs to develop a game that's more aggressive at the key moments and she needs to listen to the people who've won Slams about her schedule".

No that's not when she said it. During her commentary in an early match she said Caro will definitely win a slam when the commentators were discussing whether she would. No if's or conditions. She added she didn't think it would here this year at Wimbledon though.

The others can be slam champions - but it doesn't make them know how everyone's body works. How she schedules, what she eats, how she trains is personal. Every player is different and you are not going to know the best unless you know her and are in her team. You need to know a person. What is a good schedule for one player is a bad schedule for another player.

Caro really gave 19 tournaments as the baseline - she has to play, or home tournament or a pre-slam warm up tournament. She has cut down from a massive 26 in 2009 to 22 in 2010. Wouldn't be surprised if Caro trimmed down again just at the edges. Lindz played 22 the year before she won a slam, then 21. 19, 19 in the years she won a slam.

KournikovaFan91
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:51 PM
Maybe one when the draw opens up, but still her results at slams have been mediocre, I dunno if it'll ever happen.

Her schedule is a joke, she needs to play less. WTF was she playing is Bastad for???

vixter
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:55 PM
I believe her problem has neither to do with her temperment or her weapontry or lack their of. The problem actually has everything to do with the fact that her forehand is TOO MUCH of a liability.

A player who goes side to side and defends alot needs to be near equally good off both wings... so that their opponent cant eventually put them out of position due to weak replies off a given wing (in Woz case the FH). Woz, against a good player with strong strokes off both wings, will usually be able to hold up on the BH side, but the FH side will inevitably produce a short reply, a reply that pops up and hangs in the air, etc.. in which case a competent player can then step in and end (or take control of) the point with a winner/unreturnable shot.

If she would fix that dang FH, she would be less likely to be overpowered on that side, allowing her grind/return game more effectiveness, because an opponent would no longer have a side they could easily bully. As it stands now you just have to wait for her to hit the FH all funky and your immediately in the point... even if you werent before she hit said shot.

If she doesnt do SOMETHING to that FH the only way she will manage to win a Slam is if she stumbles into one ala Mauresmo 2006 AO.

Yeah I think this is spot on. I think she has potential to win a slam, but there has to be some improvements. Thinking she'll be a multi-slam winner just based on her results the latest years is very understandable, she's has great results. But just looking at the game we see from her today, well I don't see it. But yeah, as many others have mentioned, the HC season is about to start.

goldlion
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:57 PM
The difference of winning a slam between Davenport and Wozniakci isn't about age, it's GAME.

gc-spurs
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:06 AM
The takeback is the reason why her FH is still remotely solid, in other words it's why she's able to play it safer with a decent amount of topspin. I wouldn't even dare to imagine what it looks like if she took away the takeback, must be an even worse shot. All in all, the technique on her FH is incredibly wonky and I think it's too late/risky to make the essential tweaks to the shot in this stage of her career.

I disagree, I think its a change in her game that needs to happen. Even if I don't like her game, if she changes up that one thing at this somewhat successful point in her career to up her bidding for a slam title, I'll have some mad respect for her cause the way she's going at it doesn't get it done.

After seeing, Schiavone winning a Slam being 30 :spit: I see no reason to write Karolina0 off :shrug:

True that. Improbabilities are still possibilities so you can never count out the likes of Pushniacki. Even though Fransexa plays a hot game, she had such limited career achievements going into that, so who knows really.

Matt01
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:10 AM
The difference of winning a slam between Davenport and Wozniakci isn't about age, it's GAME.


Her game was good enough to get to #1, reach a Slam final, win lots of Tier I tournaments...she just has to be confidant, play her game, concentrate on her strengths (which she has plenty of), and then the results will come.

Break My Rapture
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:38 AM
I disagree, I think its a change in her game that needs to happen. Even if I don't like her game, if she changes up that one thing at this somewhat successful point in her career to up her bidding for a slam title, I'll have some mad respect for her cause the way she's going at it doesn't get it done.
That's why I said risky too. It can either be incredibly helpful for her or it might flop, go completely down the drain and with it, the rest of her game.

And honestly, I don't see her making such changes to her game right now (definitely not with her father still coaching her). :lol: Being #1 is the only thing that she is able to cling on atm and if such a risky decision fails her, disastrous consequences might follow including a slight loss of consistency which is basically the sole reason why she's #1.

goldenlox
Jul 11th, 2011, 01:33 AM
Lets see how Caroline does from this USO series to Miami next year, before drastic changes.
Last summer Caro lost 62 60 at Wimbledon and the threads in GM were that she would never win a Tier I, never beat a former #1, and that she was leaving the top 10 when her 2009 USO points came off.

She came so far in this last year that everything now revolves around majors for her (in GM), and these next 2 majors are her surface.

dsanders06
Jul 11th, 2011, 02:55 AM
Lets see how Caroline does from this USO series to Miami next year, before drastic changes.
Last summer Caro lost 62 60 at Wimbledon and the threads in GM were that she would never win a Tier I, never beat a former #1, and that she was leaving the top 10 when her 2009 USO points came off.

She came so far in this last year that everything now revolves around majors for her (in GM), and these next 2 majors are her surface.

And that's her problem all over. She's too satisfied with how she's doing now (piling up money from Tier 1's and apperance fees) to make the drastic changes needed to enable her to win a Slam. There's no sense of urgency from her that a champion would have.

Brad[le]y.
Jul 11th, 2011, 03:22 AM
Can she? i think so

Will she? No idea, I can't tell the future. :shrug:

Jane Lane
Jul 11th, 2011, 03:27 AM
Not as long as Daddy is driving the Sunshine Express. Caroline needs to put on the big girl panties sooner rather than later.

Brad[le]y.
Jul 11th, 2011, 03:46 AM
Not as long as Daddy is driving the Sunshine Express. Caroline needs to put on the big girl panties sooner rather than later.Agreed, and to add a fan's perception of this (I consider myself a fan), I think other Caro fans need to just let that happen (if it does happen). They keep coming on GM saying she'll win a GS someday, but how do they know that? There are many people who were good enough to win slams but didn't. We cannot predict the future so the fans (including me), should just sit back and let her do what she needs to do and hope she does the right thing. Which of course, part of it is not relying on her father for every little thing.

Hapsara
Jul 11th, 2011, 03:54 AM
She certainly has the capabilities in strokes wise...

It's just something in her mental strength that keep blocking that feat.

But I hope she can win it someday, the best chance probably in Aus or USA.

goldenlox
Jul 11th, 2011, 05:27 AM
USO 2009 she was under the radar. Oudin was the story week 1. Kim beat Venus and Serena, then Serena went off on the lineswoman.
2010 USO Caro is #1 seed. Things changed a lot in 1 year.
Now she is used to being #1 and back on hardcourt. Her results at FO & Wimbledon havent meant much going into the USO the last 2 years.
I think she is very strong mentally, but she has to keep moving forward, and everything I saw on hardcourt this spring points that is still moving forward. Just not as good yet on clay or grass.

In The Zone
Jul 11th, 2011, 05:34 AM
She certainly has the capabilities in strokes wise...

It's just something in her mental strength that keep blocking that feat.

But I hope she can win it someday, the best chance probably in Aus or USA.

Not best chance, her ONLY chance. Unless she drastically changes her game which I think we can agree is not going to happen.

In a tour event, your opponents will give you the win (errors).

In a slam, you have to win it and take it from your opponent. Until Wozniacki develops a weapon, we will continue to see her suffer disappointing defeats.

VeeJJ
Jul 11th, 2011, 06:48 AM
:secret: Only if we can fill the ENTIRE first page of TF GM with ONLY Sunshine related threads :secret:

Keep working at it :hug:

Chrissie-fan
Jul 11th, 2011, 07:29 AM
Agreed, and to add a fan's perception of this (I consider myself a fan), I think other Caro fans need to just let that happen (if it does happen). They keep coming on GM saying she'll win a GS someday, but how do they know that? There are many people who were good enough to win slams but didn't.
I agree with that. I obviously HOPE that she will win one, but what I hope for and what will happen are not necessarily the same things. That's the problem with most of these polls - people on both sides of the issue vote for what they would like to happen (or NOT to happen) as if their wishes will actually influence anything that will happen on court.

goldlion
Jul 11th, 2011, 07:37 AM
I actually don't understand why people consider her mentally tough? Game wise, if she's put into a losing position, she turns her defensive mode on and just return every ball; Emotion wise, she shows her frustration too often and too easily when things don't go her way; Also she is relying on the on-court coaching too much and it shows that she doesn't have the capability to think for herself and take responsibility to change the match around. How many times have we seen her father come to court and tell her what to do? Had she been tough enough, she wouldn't have let the Wimbledon fourth round slip away in that style. Caroline didn't take her chances and Cibulkova just took advantage of that, is that what a potential champion should be? The Wimbledon final also showed one thing: the winner has to win it and Kvitova demonstrated that extremely well and deserved the trophy. It's ludicrous to say that she'll win multiple slams in her career at the point that she has none. You can say Ivanovic, Kuznetsova, Schiavone, Li, Kvitova may win multiple slams but Caroline definitely doesn't belong to that category yet.

duhcity
Jul 11th, 2011, 08:25 AM
Where are all these people saying that she doesn't have the game?
She made a lot of progress at the beginning of the year and knew exactly how to play her game. Well, she does when her father tells her how to.

It seems like a mediocre clay and grass season, which is really not too surprising, caused everyone to forget the changes she did make to her HC game.

As for players better than Caroline not winning a slam...well yeah. There are players that are more talented than Caroline and simply play better tennis. For example, Lena D. Yet it wouldn't be surprising to see Caroline end up having a greater career would it? Caroline has done well to consistently produce her tennis. Plus, she's handled the criticism far better than any slamless #1 in the past. Although that armor has taken a few large blows in the last two slams.

bandabou
Jul 11th, 2011, 08:41 AM
Good point about on-court coaching. The only player so reliant on coaching to win majors was Henin and she obviously had a much much better game than Caro will ever have.

Caro needs to find a way to balance consistency yet still saving the extra gear that's required to win majors. You CAN'T peak at EVEY tournament, but IF you're gonna peak..make sure it's at the majors. Caro often is BLAZINGLY well at say a Canadian Open and then crumbles at the Open.

bandabou
Jul 11th, 2011, 08:51 AM
Where are all these people saying that she doesn't have the game?
She made a lot of progress at the beginning of the year and knew exactly how to play her game. Well, she does when her father tells her how to.

It seems like a mediocre clay and grass season, which is really not too surprising, caused everyone to forget the changes she did make to her HC game.

As for players better than Caroline not winning a slam...well yeah. There are players that are more talented than Caroline and simply play better tennis. For example, Lena D. Yet it wouldn't be surprising to see Caroline end up having a greater career would it? Caroline has done well to consistently produce her tennis. Plus, she's handled the criticism far better than any slamless #1 in the past. Although that armor has taken a few large blows in the last two slams.

Indeed...it's all depending on the era you play in. Some come up in era with only top players and future HOF'ers. And then you've Caro coming up in the era where her greatest, only?, challenger is Kvitova.

goldlion
Jul 11th, 2011, 09:33 AM
Where are all these people saying that she doesn't have the game?
She made a lot of progress at the beginning of the year and knew exactly how to play her game. Well, she does when her father tells her how to.

It seems like a mediocre clay and grass season, which is really not too surprising, caused everyone to forget the changes she did make to her HC game.

As for players better than Caroline not winning a slam...well yeah. There are players that are more talented than Caroline and simply play better tennis. For example, Lena D. Yet it wouldn't be surprising to see Caroline end up having a greater career would it? Caroline has done well to consistently produce her tennis. Plus, she's handled the criticism far better than any slamless #1 in the past. Although that armor has taken a few large blows in the last two slams.

1. May I ask what changes they are?

2. How was she different? Safina and Jankovic were basically saying the same thing as Wozniacki that 'I don't care what you or others think. I perform consistently to reach this ranking. It's something that I dreamed of when I was a little girl and it's such an achievement to reach this ranking.'

In the first few weeks they might still say that they would win a slam soon as they're no. 1. But nothing happened. At the end of the day, all of them just couldn't deal with the fact that they're slamless number 1 on WTA.

razzer
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:49 AM
both mauresmo and clijster became no 1 first before winning a GS - practically after 2 years since they were ranked no 1.

Caro will win a GS soon!

Break My Rapture
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:05 PM
Where are all these people saying that she doesn't have the game?
She made a lot of progress at the beginning of the year and knew exactly how to play her game. Well, she does when her father tells her how to.

It seems like a mediocre clay and grass season, which is really not too surprising, caused everyone to forget the changes she did make to her HC game.

As for players better than Caroline not winning a slam...well yeah. There are players that are more talented than Caroline and simply play better tennis. For example, Lena D. Yet it wouldn't be surprising to see Caroline end up having a greater career would it? Caroline has done well to consistently produce her tennis. Plus, she's handled the criticism far better than any slamless #1 in the past. Although that armor has taken a few large blows in the last two slams.
IF she ends up slamless, will you still say the same? Both her, Jankovic and Safina are and were stuck with the same situation in which pressure keeps piling up, the two latter succumbed. During their reign as #1, all three of them were saying the same thing (that they are the best player in the world because they are #1, in other words trying to hide their doubts), Jankovic and Safina are still slamless as of now and will most likely end their careers like that.

Smitten
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:08 PM
The same way I predicted that her HC form would desert her on clay/grass works in reverse as well.

You can't really expect Karolina to have the same mediocre results in this half of the season. She moves better on this surface than any of the others and her game works better.

She's not winning any slam this year though despite what The Daviator says.

Corswandt
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:25 PM
The same way I predicted that her HC form would desert her on clay/grass works in reverse as well.

You can't really expect Karolina to have the same mediocre results in this half of the season. She moves better on this surface than any of the others and her game works better.

She's not winning any slam this year though despite what The Daviator says.

Somehow I suspect Wozniacka's objective won't be to win all the US hardcourt events she enters; she may even perform underwhelmingly in them, so that later on her team can hail her inevitable QF/SF run (and inevitable loss once she gets there) at the USO as a "success". Still, competition will be so weak she may end up winning all of them regardless just by outgrinding the usual bridesmaids.

Corswandt
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:25 PM
She certainly has the capabilities in strokes wise...

It's just something in her mental strength that keep blocking that feat.

Only in TF.

goldlion
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:27 PM
both mauresmo and clijster became no 1 first before winning a GS - practically after 2 years since they were ranked no 1.

Caro will win a GS soon!

I don't find the examples of Mauresmo and Clijsters relevant because their games are totally different to Wozniacki. Both of their games aim to finish points on their own terms and not waiting for an error. It's the 'winner quality' and the elements that make things happen. Schiavone won her first GS at 30 and Li at 29 but it doesn't mean it will happen the same on Wozniacki. I don't recall any counterpuncher winning a grand slam in recent years. It's the nature of Grand Slam.

goldlion
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:31 PM
Somehow I suspect Wozniacka's objective won't be to win all the US hardcourt events she enters; she may even perform underwhelmingly in them, so that later on her team can hail her inevitable QF/SF run (and inevitable loss once she gets there) at the USO as a "success". Still, competition will be so weak she may end up winning all of them regardless just by outgrinding the usual bridesmaids.

I bet your pardon? Your mind must still be in 2010.

Women tennis is stronger this year with lots of new powers and return of old goods.

Caroline won with consistency last year, but her consistency has pretty much gone within the last few months. And aside from that she has nothing. Her title during the warm-ups will probably be New Heaven and that's because no top ones participate.

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:32 PM
What about nitpicking other players odd bad slam results on their worst surfaces they get from time to time at 20 years old as evidence they will never win a slam. While we are at it. Lindz was a prolific winner of titles but when she was 1 month older than Caro - her last 8 slam results were 2R, 4R, QF, 2R, 4R, 4R, 4R, 2R. No improvement there and three 2R exits! She got to #1 the next year. And at the end of that year she won her first slam at 22. Yet where was the evidence on that sequence of slam results of improvement.


huge diff is Lindsay was nowhere near #1 and barely inside top 10 at 20
had only won 7 titles at end of 1996.
Wozniacki is already #1 so she should have won more titles than LD at same age, but her slam performances wont be as similar.

goldenlox
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:46 PM
I think these next 2 majors will tell more than the last 2 for Caroline.
I'm very interested to see what happens this hardcourt season.
Last year Caroline won Rodgers Cup, New Haven, lost to Vera in NY, won Tokyo & Beijing.

That one loss was it for 5 tournaments, and then her next tournament was the YEC, where she made the final.

Steven.
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:48 PM
I don't find the examples of Mauresmo and Clijsters relevant because their games are totally different to Wozniacki. Both of their games aim to finish points on their own terms and not waiting for an error. It's the 'winner quality' and the elements that make things happen. Schiavone won her first GS at 30 and Li at 29 but it doesn't mean it will happen the same on Wozniacki. I don't recall any counterpuncher winning a grand slam in recent years. It's the nature of Grand Slam.

Well, Kim and Sanchez Vicario are both counter-punchers who have won slams in recent years. But other than that, I can't think of any other names, no. However, in saying that, they are incredibly different to Wozniacki despite having the same predominantly defensive style of tennis, in that they have remarkable weapons. Kim's ability to slide on all surfaces and BOTH wings very capable of blasting winners no doubt made her one of the more successful counter punchers of recent times (not to mention her capable net play), and Sanchez Vicario had amazing variety in that she is able to return the opponent's firepower readily and could add surprising amount of spin onto many different shots and under many different circumstances.

Meanwhile, Wozniacki's only real weapon is the backhand winner down-the-line. Although, it is obvious throughout Wimbledon that she had been working on other aspects of her game, such as her serve, volley and forehand. At the same time, I couldn't help but think her backhand looked more passive than before? So it's like with progress in one area of her game, there would be regress in another. Also, her inability to up her level in a match was also evident against Cibulkova, who seemingly played better as the match went on while Wozniacki's level stagnated.

Wozniacki CAN win a slam, but technically so can the other 127 people in the draw. She needs to be able to adapt to her opponent and also attempt to be more aggressive off both wings after setting up with her retrieving skills.

Corswandt
Jul 11th, 2011, 02:44 PM
I bet your pardon? Your mind must still be in 2010.

Women tennis is stronger this year with lots of new powers and return of old goods.

9 out of 10 odds that Wozniacka's opposition in the later rounds of the US Open Series events she enters will be the same old dreck like Pennetta, Bartoli, or Zvonareva and Radwanska at best.

chmath
Jul 11th, 2011, 03:56 PM
9 out of 10 odds that Wozniacka's opposition in the later rounds of the US Open Series events she enters will be the same old dreck like Pennetta, Bartoli, or Zvonareva and Radwanska at best.

Dreck? Wtf is a dreck? Obviously, you mean it as a derogatory term, in which case, fyi, Pennetta and Zvonareva are not 'drecks'. And, at the end of the day, if Caro does cross Vera in the USO, she'll get trounced again, just like the last time they met, if Vera is 85% healthy.

Excelscior
Jul 11th, 2011, 05:24 PM
Dreck? Wtf is a dreck? Obviously, you mean it as a derogatory term, in which case, fyi, Pennetta and Zvonareva are not 'drecks'. And, at the end of the day, if Caro does cross Vera in the USO, she'll get trounced again, just like the last time they met, if Vera is 85% healthy.

Yo sure about that? I like Vera to. But they way she's been playing lately, can you really be so confident/say that?

chmath
Jul 11th, 2011, 06:35 PM
Yo sure about that? I like Vera to. But they way she's been playing lately, can you really be so confident/say that?

The way the WTA is shaping, I don't think anyone can be confident of anything :lol: IF Vera plays up to scratch and not what we saw over the last 2 months, she has the beating of Caro in a major, on any given Sunday IMO. If she doesn't, well, she's prone to losing. But, the ultimate point is that it's impossible to call anything at the minute, what I do fervently believe is that Caro is by no means GS material. She would not be in any other era, and if she does end up winning one, it's the lack of decent opposition, rather than her own ability. Granted, you can only beat what's in front of you, but still...

backhandsmash
Jul 11th, 2011, 06:51 PM
You want her to travel back in time, so she can prove herself, or something?

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 11th, 2011, 06:55 PM
61 people have absolutely no clue.

chmath
Jul 11th, 2011, 07:03 PM
You want her to travel back in time, so she can prove herself, or something?

Not at all, not what I was alluding to. She is by far the most consistent female tennis player over the last two years. And she deserves all the credit in the world for that, and what she has achieved through her hard work and dedication to the sport. But, IMO, she's not GS material. And until she wins one, IF she wins one, the argument will always rest with those who doubt her...

moemoe
Jul 11th, 2011, 07:06 PM
Honestly, at this point she needs to at least get into the final and win a set.

marineblue
Jul 11th, 2011, 07:39 PM
As for the last point - the last thing she should do is listen to her gloomy detractors for their advice. I can say for sure if she listened to them and tried to follow their advice and worried herself about them - in which she can never do anything right anyway - she will never win a slam for sure. How she should answer the questions, how she should schedule etc. There is no shred of evidence that the results would be better in any of the slams if she'd done anything different and listened to them as opposed to her team and the people she trusts.[/QUOTE]

Preach. The ones she has to listen to is her team. They are the ones who helped her to get where she is. I think that the critics need to realise that at last. :rolleyes:

Matt01
Jul 11th, 2011, 08:31 PM
9 out of 10 odds that Wozniacka's opposition in the later rounds of the US Open Series events she enters will be the same old dreck like Pennetta, Bartoli, or Zvonareva and Radwanska at best.


Oh, the bitterness :rolls:

vixter
Jul 11th, 2011, 09:45 PM
I think she has potential to improve and be GS-quality. She can be more than just a counterpuncher, she has shown that. Her serve needs to become stronger and her mental game needs improvement too, so that she can impose her game more in big matches.

She has great chances to go deep at this years USO. But I think we could try to stop the fortune telling and let's see what happens now...

Corswandt
Jul 11th, 2011, 09:57 PM
Oh, the bitterness :rolls:

Oh, the Slamlessness. :sad:

goldenlox
Jul 11th, 2011, 10:08 PM
Oh, the Slamlessness. :sad:Yes, she reached her 21st birthday without winning a major. She should retire, no point continuing:rolleyes:

vixter
Jul 11th, 2011, 10:11 PM
Yes, she reached her 21st birthday without winning a major. She should retire, no point continuing:rolleyes:

:lol:

Excelscior
Jul 11th, 2011, 10:11 PM
Yes, she reached her 21st birthday without winning a major. She should retire, no point continuing:rolleyes:

"Wonk Wonk Wonk". You can no longer call Caroline Wozniaki 20yrs old anymore. Does that hurt?

goldenlox
Jul 11th, 2011, 10:16 PM
"Wonk Wonk Wonk". You can no longer call Caroline Wozniaki 20yrs old anymore. Does that hurt?There's 12 months of her being 21. So get used to it :D

Break My Rapture
Jul 11th, 2011, 10:16 PM
"Wonk Wonk Wonk". You can no longer call Caroline Wozniaki 20yrs old anymore. Does that hurt?
:bigcry:

Matt01
Jul 11th, 2011, 10:35 PM
"Wonk Wonk Wonk". You can no longer call Caroline Wozniaki 20yrs old anymore. Does that hurt?


Personally, I couldn't care less. :)

Graftard
Jul 11th, 2011, 10:36 PM
Unless Copenhagen is promoted to a slam event in the near future, Caro is never winning a slam.

LUXXXAS
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:05 PM
no chance - Grand Slams are for REAL champions! :spit:

Matt01
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:11 PM
no chance - Grand Slams are for REAL champions! :spit:


But Caro is a real Champion :crying2:

And your fave was a "long-time Number 1 without Slam title" as well. ;)

goldenlox
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:13 PM
But Caro is a real Champion :crying2:

And your fave was a "long-time Number 1 without Slam title" as well. ;)The anti-Caro comments are getting more & more childish.
Now its Copenhagen has to be a major & real champions.
Next week the haters will just post "Waah! I need my diapers changed!" :lol:

Break My Rapture
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:16 PM
But Caro is a real Champion :crying2:

And your fave was a "long-time Number 1 without Slam title" as well. ;)
I think it's safe to say that argument doesn't pay off at all. Davenport and Clijsters are just way better players, blatantly said.

DragonFlame
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:18 PM
I think she will.. and it will be very satisfying for her, I don't think she will in the next year and a half though. I give her very good chances in 2013 if she keeps improving.

What i do think is that she needs to get a decent slamresult at this year's usopen, otherwise it might hurt her confidence. She can be tough though, lets see if she can bounce back from the disappointing last few months.

She's a really good hardcourt player, i think she'll find a way.

Novichok
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:19 PM
The anti-Caro comments are getting more & more childish.
Now its Copenhagen has to be a major & real champions.
Next week the haters will just post "Waah! I need my diapers changed!" :lol:

Caro haters get more and more pathetic. The HOF bullshit was definitely the nadir thus far.

Graftard
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:26 PM
The anti-Caro comments are getting more & more childish.
Now its Copenhagen has to be a major & real champions.
Next week the haters will just post "Waah! I need my diapers changed!" :lol:

Wozniacki's recent slam record:

2010 AO: Lost in R4
2010 RG: Lost in QF
2010 W: HUMILIATED in R4
2010 USO: Lost in semis
2011 AO: lost in semis (after having MP :happy:)
2011 RG: thrashed in R3
2011 W: lost in R4 (after dominating first set)

Such an awesome world #1.

Matt01
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:26 PM
I think it's safe to say that argument doesn't pay off at all. Davenport and Clijsters are just way better players, blatantly said.


I didn't say anything about who the better player is. And we talk about that when all those players have finished their careers. Even though I know it rattles you tremendously, but Caro's career has just started. :bounce:

Break My Rapture
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:32 PM
I didn't say anything about who the better player is. And we talk about that when all those players have finished their careers. Even though I know it rattles you tremendously, but Caro's career has just started. :bounce:
I know that. I was just making the difference between Wozniacki's and Clijsterport's situations as slamless #1's.
I'm actually very intrigued to see how Wozniacki's career ends.

Matt01
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:36 PM
I know that. I was just making the difference between Wozniacki's and Clijsterport's situations as slamless #1's.
I'm actually very intrigued to see how Wozniacki's career ends.


I don't think the difference between Woz and Clijsters was that big as slamless #1...Clijster made 1 or 2 more Slams final and won the YEC, Caro "only" reached the final.

Brad[le]y.
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:40 PM
Why is this thread going on still? Most people have answered this question over and over again and asking it one more time is not going to change anybody's answer. It's not like 2 years ago anyone would predict that Schiavone and Li Na would win slams. :spit:

Why don't we just wait and see instead of arguing about it? It;s not doing any good :shrug:

Break My Rapture
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:44 PM
I don't think the difference between Woz and Clijsters was that big as slamless #1...Clijster made 1 or 2 more Slams final and won the YEC, Caro "only" reached the final.
Yeah that's actually a rather big difference when you're talking about slamless #1's, for example: Kimothy wasn't even ranked in the top 10 when she nearly won RG. Wozniacki got straightsetted by that same player in her first ever GS final and Kimothy wasn't even playing on the same level of her previous rounds against particularly the WS. Both of their achievements equal night and day in differentials before they went on to become the covetted slamless #1, and that's what makes Clijsters a better player by a long shot.

DefyingGravity
Jul 12th, 2011, 12:09 AM
no chance - Grand Slams are for REAL champions! :spit:

http://i41.tinypic.com/1z1gyus.gif

That was so insightful. Those real champs like Majoli and Myskina.

Matt01
Jul 12th, 2011, 12:29 AM
Yeah that's actually a rather big difference when you're talking about slamless #1's, for example: Kimothy wasn't even ranked in the top 10 when she nearly won RG. Wozniacki got straightsetted by that same player in her first ever GS final and Kimothy wasn't even playing on the same level of her previous rounds against particularly the WS. Both of their achievements equal night and day in differentials before they went on to become the covetted slamless #1, and that's what makes Clijsters a better player by a long shot.


Caro was playing better tennis than Kimothy was in her first Slam final if you ask me.

Break My Rapture
Jul 12th, 2011, 12:43 AM
Caro was playing better tennis than Kimothy was in her first Slam final if you ask me.
Perhaps. But if that's the truth, what more does she need to win a GS then? She was arguably playing better than her opponent in the final, if I'm not mistaken she also had a (small?) lead in the first set which means the nerves weren't there (unless the nerves were the reason she lost that lead which in its turn means she's not as mentally tough as she's made out to be and that is something I have always said). It begs the question if she is good enough to win a slam then.

Pops Maellard
Jul 12th, 2011, 12:53 AM
The anti-Caro comments are getting more & more childish.
Now its Copenhagen has to be a major & real champions.
Next week the haters will just post "Waah! I need my diapers changed!" :lol:

Being funny isn't your strong point hun. :hug:

justineheninfan
Jul 12th, 2011, 03:12 AM
I am starting to think no. She has shown no improvement since reaching #1 and the tour is starting to recover itself. Serena is back and played well for her first tournaments back, Li Na is a big threat to win slams for the next couple years, Sharapova is back as a real contender, and most significantly the generation of players Wozniacki's age are coming alive at last, some of those with more natural talent, weapons, and potential than Woz seems to have.

goldlion
Jul 12th, 2011, 03:21 AM
Perhaps. But if that's the truth, what more does she need to win a GS then? She was arguably playing better than her opponent in the final, if I'm not mistaken she also had a (small?) lead in the first set which means the nerves weren't there (unless the nerves were the reason she lost that lead which in its turn means she's not as mentally tough as she's made out to be and that is something I have always said). It begs the question if she is good enough to win a slam then.

It's because Kim hadn't played her before and she needed time to figure her out. Once Kim realised Wozniacki couldn't hurt her, she went for more to melt Wozniacki down. The angles Kim played was unretrievable for Woz. So she lost.

backslapu
Jul 12th, 2011, 03:39 AM
Caroline's gonna win multiple slams, and most on this board will flip shits...I think people forget she has won HUGE tournaments (Indian Wells, Dubai, Montreal, Beijing)...she did reach the USO finals...and she's been No. 1 for a whole year.....that's not fluke


She's clearly best on Hard Courts so multiple USO's and Aussie Open's are what I see from her...once Clijsters is gone, hard courts will be all her

young_gunner913
Jul 12th, 2011, 03:47 AM
Caroline's gonna win multiple slams, and most on this board will flip shits...I think people forget she has won HUGE tournaments (Indian Wells, Dubai, Montreal, Beijing)...she did reach the USO finals...and she's been No. 1 for a whole year.....that's not fluke


She's clearly best on Hard Courts so multiple USO's and Aussie Open's are what I see from her...once Clijsters is gone, hard courts will be all her

You're right, she does well at tournaments where her dad is allowed to come out on court and coach, when she's on her own, she's toast.

backslapu
Jul 12th, 2011, 03:57 AM
You're right, she does well at tournaments where her dad is allowed to come out on court and coach, when she's on her own, she's toast.

Then explain the US Open run to the Finals, and last year's run to the SF's, and then Aussie Open run to the SF's this year...all hard courts...

young_gunner913
Jul 12th, 2011, 04:03 AM
Then explain the US Open run to the Finals, and last year's run to the SF's, and then Aussie Open run to the SF's this year...all hard courts...

Glad you brought up the AO SF. It's the perfect match to prove my point. Opponent is playing a match right into Caro's hands then starts playing better, cuts out what Caro needs to win, UE's and Caro is left standing clueless what to do. Even on MP, she had NO idea what to do. Without Piotr she can only make it so far until she faces an opponent who isn't playing like a fool against her, then she's toast.

Moveyourfeet
Jul 12th, 2011, 04:06 AM
Of course Caro will win a slam. She's not going to be a great player but she's good enough to win a slam. It will be hardcourt, most likely USO.
However, she will not win one if she faces Serena or Kim. As long as she doesn't have to face them, she can win. Yes, she can beat Venus.

lang26
Jul 12th, 2011, 04:12 AM
It so Sad people really worry if Caro going win a slam the girl only 21 damn ya acting like she 82 so sad but that haters

lang26
Jul 12th, 2011, 04:14 AM
Glad you brought up the AO SF. It's the perfect match to prove my point. Opponent is playing a match right into Caro's hands then starts playing better, cuts out what Caro needs to win, UE's and Caro is left standing clueless what to do. Even on MP, she had NO idea what to do. Without Piotr she can only make it so far until she faces an opponent who isn't playing like a fool against her, then she's toast.

You're right, she does well at tournaments where her dad is allowed to come out on court and coach, when she's on her own, she's toast.

True she you make a point with Piotr helping her with coaching but wat a coach is for if you can't use it or call on him or her. mostly every tennis player call upon there coach she not the only

backslapu
Jul 12th, 2011, 04:21 AM
Glad you brought up the AO SF. It's the perfect match to prove my point. Opponent is playing a match right into Caro's hands then starts playing better, cuts out what Caro needs to win, UE's and Caro is left standing clueless what to do. Even on MP, she had NO idea what to do. Without Piotr she can only make it so far until she faces an opponent who isn't playing like a fool against her, then she's toast.

Still doesn't explain how she gotten to the Semis or better at her last 3 out of 4 hard court slams...all she has to do is tweak her game against the big hitters that go for broke because for the most part, that's the only type of player she loses to (Li, Lisicki, Kvitova, Goerges, Sharapova). I mean damn, she just turned 21 today and clearly does better than most her age WITH or WITHOUT Piotr

Moveyourfeet
Jul 12th, 2011, 04:23 AM
True she you make a point with Piotr helping her with coaching but wat a coach is for if you can't use it or call on him or her.

Tennis is not a team sport. The mark of a champion is being able to both execute and adapt your gameplan on court by yourself.
The only tennis champion that has heavily relied on ON court coaching is Henin :oh:

JCTennisFan
Jul 12th, 2011, 05:41 AM
Tennis is not a team sport. The mark of a champion is being able to both execute and adapt your gameplan on court by yourself.
The only tennis champion that has heavily relied on ON court coaching is Henin :oh:

Well and potentially meth or hgh. Or better yet an asthma inhaler :eek: :angel: .

lang26
Jul 12th, 2011, 12:02 PM
Tennis is not a team sport. The mark of a champion is being able to both execute and adapt your gameplan on court by yourself.
The only tennis champion that has heavily relied on ON court coaching is Henin :oh:

well like i said she not the only that call for her coach vika have vera have and jelena & Ana and so on so if this a promblem let point out everybody beside hating on one. and second team sport if the wta felt that way why would they allow coach to come talk to they;re player since that like team work :lol:

Bronx19
Jul 12th, 2011, 12:22 PM
No. Pushers dont win GS.

Break My Rapture
Jul 12th, 2011, 03:08 PM
well like i said she not the only that call for her coach vika have vera have and jelena & Ana and so on so if this a promblem let point out everybody beside hating on one. and second team sport if the wta felt that way why would they allow coach to come talk to they;re player since that like team work :lol:
Wozniacki calls on her father/coach the most though. She grabs the opportunity on EVERY medical time-out her opponent takes (from what I've seen anyway) and always does it at scores like 4-3. ALWAYS. And I think it's kinda sad. But hey, if there's such a pathetic rule like the on-court coaching, why not use it.

Perhaps that's also one of the reasons why she seems so desperate/lost during tough slam matches. She panicks and very occasionally starts throwing her racquet around, showing how much of a sunshine she is.

Setsuna.
Jul 12th, 2011, 04:03 PM
Maybe she will be lucky enough to win one or two in her career.

marineblue
Jul 14th, 2011, 09:14 AM
"Wonk Wonk Wonk". You can no longer call Caroline Wozniaki 20yrs old anymore. Does that hurt?

No. :p

marineblue
Jul 14th, 2011, 09:27 AM
Glad you brought up the AO SF. It's the perfect match to prove my point. Opponent is playing a match right into Caro's hands then starts playing better, cuts out what Caro needs to win, UE's and Caro is left standing clueless what to do. Even on MP, she had NO idea what to do. Without Piotr she can only make it so far until she faces an opponent who isn't playing like a fool against her, then she's toast.

Well, she got through to the semis without the help of anyone so that shows that she can win without the help of anyone.

Yoncé
Jul 14th, 2011, 12:34 PM
Well, she got through to the semis without the help of anyone so that shows that she can win without the help of anyone.

Except for of course the help of Manasieva and Sevastova taking out the threats and Schiavone and Kunznetsova going for 4 hours and 44 minutes. It defiantly helps to have an easy draw and your first difficult opponent has just played the longest grand slam match the round before...when she is 30 years old no less!

Sander.
Jul 14th, 2011, 12:36 PM
Yes. Just because she's a nice player :)

Shivank17
Jul 14th, 2011, 12:40 PM
In which world are you?
She already has won the Wozniacki slams(Brussels,Copenhagen,New Haven) multiple times. :oh:

Jimmie48
Jul 14th, 2011, 12:44 PM
In which world are you?
She already has won the Wozniacki slams(Brussels,Copenhagen,New Haven) multiple times. :oh:

This stopped being clever like a year ago... please come up with something new.

Shivank17
Jul 14th, 2011, 03:22 PM
This stopped being clever like a year ago... please come up with something new.

Don't you know Brussels was Caro's latest slam this year. :secret:

JN
Jul 14th, 2011, 04:17 PM
If a thread for an award that Serena happened to win gets moved to her player's forum, why in the fuck is this still in GM? I swear, the blatant bias on TF is one for the books.

Jimmie48
Jul 14th, 2011, 04:32 PM
If a thread for an award that Serena happened to win gets moved to her player's forum, why in the fuck is this still in GM? I swear, the blatant bias on TF is one for the books.

Really? There is a pro-Caro bias in TF? You got to be kidding me...

I don't really see the significance of a publicly-voted award either, it's hardly surprising that the only American player in the vote gets the most votings from the US public. Yawn... that's as telling as asking the Danish public who they think their favorite tennis player is :lol:

Sonja1989
Jul 14th, 2011, 04:34 PM
Funny to say 'no' in 21 years old player especially because she played a Grand Slam final.

JN
Jul 14th, 2011, 06:24 PM
Really? There is a pro-Caro bias in TF? You got to be kidding me...

I don't really see the significance of a publicly-voted award either, it's hardly surprising that the only American player in the vote gets the most votings from the US public. Yawn... that's as telling as asking the Danish public who they think their favorite tennis player is :lol:

Simply deny the point then go off on an unrelated rant. Typical.

Jimmie48
Jul 14th, 2011, 06:34 PM
Simply deny the point then go off on an unrelated rant. Typical.

Unrelated? You were the one who brought up the award, not me.

marineblue
Jul 14th, 2011, 06:35 PM
Except for of course the help of Manasieva and Sevastova taking out the threats and Schiavone and Kunznetsova going for 4 hours and 44 minutes. It defiantly helps to have an easy draw and your first difficult opponent has just played the longest grand slam match the round before...when she is 30 years old no less!

Well, I referred to an on-court coaching. And those players did not help her as she still have to play whoever was left in her draw. Besides, she beat them before.

BritneysBestBets
Jul 14th, 2011, 06:46 PM
Yes. Her best chance will be on a hard court ie either Australia or the US. But she has to stop playing in so many tournaments leading up to Grand Slams. To keep playing in tournaments a week before a Grand Slam is crazy if you are serious about winning the slam.

I agree, you make a great point. If she's gonna have enough left in the tank she should strongly consider taking the week off before and try focus and approach the slam another way.
Based off just talent, i think she eventually gets one.

Mynarco
Jul 14th, 2011, 06:51 PM
to be honest, I still don't understand why caro did not win USO 2010. She had her bitch in SF and still lost.

goldenlox
Jul 14th, 2011, 09:22 PM
to be honest, I still don't understand why caro did not win USO 2010. She had her bitch in SF and still lost.
It was very windy, & if you the QF, both Caro & Domi were struggling with the wind.
Vera is older and has a lot of experience in the wind & played a smart match. After that Caro beat her in the Beijing final & YEC SF, but that day Vera was sharp & smart in NYC

Pops Maellard
Sep 17th, 2011, 02:37 AM
If I were a 'yes' voter I'd be second-guessing right about now :oh:.

SwingVolley93
Sep 17th, 2011, 04:01 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA at the optimistic fans :lol:
Face the facts ya'll, bitch aint winnin no slam. :wavey:

SwingVolley93
Sep 17th, 2011, 04:01 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA at the optimistic fans :lol:
Face the facts ya'll, bitch aint winnin no slam. :wavey:

champion88
Sep 17th, 2011, 04:07 AM
I don't think she will.... Have nothing againt Caro to be honest - I think she will make a lot of SF and a few more finals but will always be overpowered in the big big matches :shrug:

Skye34
Sep 17th, 2011, 05:01 AM
Yes. If Stosur could, so can Wozniacki.

Roookie
Sep 17th, 2011, 05:05 AM
She won't with that style of play...that's for sure

Edith09
Sep 17th, 2011, 08:32 AM
I think yes (and I´m not a fan, but I´m not a hater :)), but she needs some luck with draw. She needs to avoid players who play good attacking tennis, because she is not able to handle it. Big advantage is that she is still young so she can make some changes in her game (I don´t think she will play "Serve and volley", but she can be more aggressive). But with every year without grand slam title pressure on her will be bigger (see Andy Murray...).

justineheninfan
Sep 19th, 2011, 03:49 AM
to be honest, I still don't understand why caro did not win USO 2010. She had her bitch in SF and still lost.

Clijsters the way she played in the U.S Open final would have destroyed Wozniacki. Especialy since Wozniacki has never beaten Kim, and couldnt even beat an erratic Kim on her own best day in the WTA Champs final.

AnomyBC
Sep 19th, 2011, 05:49 AM
If I were a 'yes' voter I'd be second-guessing right about now :oh:.

Why? She's what, 21 years old? Time is certainly on her side, and it seems like the competition from the other top players gets weaker and weaker every year :shrug:

AnomyBC
Sep 19th, 2011, 05:59 AM
I don't think she will.... Have nothing againt Caro to be honest - I think she will make a lot of SF and a few more finals but will always be overpowered in the big big matches :shrug:

She's likely to play in another 40 slams by the end of her career. The way things are going in the WTA at the moment, she's not only likely to reach many additional Semis and Finals, but she's likely to be playing different players in each of those Semis and Finals. Statistically speaking, it's very unlikely that she'll always run into a player that can overpower her, especially since the Williams sisters, Clijsters, Li Na and Schiavone are all likely to be retiring in the next year or two. Basically, if you look at this based on statistics and probability, anyone who doesn't put money on Caro winning a slam in the future is a fool.

AnomyBC
Sep 19th, 2011, 06:04 AM
She won't with that style of play...that's for sure

She's having a huge amount of success the way she's playing now, so I really don't think she should mess with it too much. She just needs to take advantage of any good draws she gets at the slams.

Johnbert
Sep 19th, 2011, 06:05 AM
to be honest, I still don't understand why caro did not win USO 2010. She had her bitch in SF and still lost.

hm, even if she would've beaten zvonareva, clijsters would've been waiting in the final... :tape:

in my opinion, woz will win a major in the future, sooner or later... probably a hardcourt slam :cool:

AnomyBC
Sep 19th, 2011, 06:20 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA at the optimistic fans :lol:
Face the facts ya'll, bitch aint winnin no slam. :wavey:

There's really no reason to not be optimistic at the moment. She's 21 years old and she's already won 18 titles and spent 50 weeks at #1. Plus, as I said above, many of the players she's had trouble with like the Williams sisters, Clijsters, Li Na and Schiavone are all close to retirement. And again, she's likely to have about 40 more chances to win a slam in her career, so the likelihood of her not winning at least one of those is incredibly small.

DragonFlame
Sep 19th, 2011, 06:53 AM
For sure she´ll win a hardcourt slam in her career, i´ve got no doubts about that. She just needs to find last year´s summer form and she should win one. The interesting thing will be if she´ll win on clay or grass.

Shadowcat
Sep 19th, 2011, 07:26 AM
She will just not at the moment ;)

Jimmie48
Sep 19th, 2011, 10:14 AM
For sure she´ll win a hardcourt slam in her career, i´ve got no doubts about that. She just needs to find last year´s summer form and she should win one. The interesting thing will be if she´ll win on clay or grass.

Clay, maybe...there's a long-enough clay season for her to prepare and RG is often enough wide open since there are no real clay specialists anymore.

Wimbledon ain't happening. I know she loves the tournament but I don't see her winning it to be honest. Her game and her serve aren't suited to grass, with the exception of 1-2 tournaments there's barely any preparation for the switch to grass and we all know how she needs momentum and matchplay.

I´m pretty sure she´ll win several slams but even a Wimbledon final would be a surprise in my book. There are just too many players in her age group that have a game much better suited to grass than hers.

Pops Maellard
Sep 19th, 2011, 10:29 AM
She's likely to play in another 40 slams by the end of her career..

You think Caro will last until 31 with that schedule and style of play?

http://roccosrevolution.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/oprah.gif

I think she'll be lucky to still be competitive at 25 TBH. If she loses even half a step, she's basically toast.

Patrick345
Sep 19th, 2011, 10:38 AM
You think Caro will last until 31 with that schedule and style of play?


I can´t see that either, but 27-28 should be possible. She´ll win a Slam, it´s crazy to suggest otherwise as the Tour is currently constructed. For her historical standing it´s much more interesting how many she´ll win in comparison to players of her generation/age (Kvitova, Azarenka, Pavlyuchenkova and so on). If she remains 200 weeks at #1 and wins jus one Slam, while Kvitova, Azarenka or somebody else wins three plus Slams, she´ll have a hard time to convince anybody that she was the best player of her own generation, despite the longevity at the top.

Pops Maellard
Sep 19th, 2011, 10:40 AM
Statistically speaking, it's very unlikely that she'll always run into a player that can overpower her, especially since the Williams sisters, Clijsters, Li Na and Schiavone are all likely to be retiring in the next year or two.

In case you haven't noticed, it's not even these players she loses to at the slams - it's ordinary top 30 players having a good day most of the time.

chmath
Sep 19th, 2011, 11:40 AM
In historical perspective, given how many better and greater players didn't win a slam (Dementieva for example), she doesn't really deserve to win one. But, given how hard she works on the tour, it would be nice if she took home one towards the end of her career, as reward for all the effort she put in. Having said that, given how Jankovic's career evolved, it wouldn't be out of the question that she never wins one. Unless the serve dramatically improves, anything ca happen...

madmax
Sep 19th, 2011, 11:45 AM
I love how Push stans have "no doubt" that she'll win the slam, while other much more talented and capable players like Dementieva failed to do so...do they really think that other girls will not start beating her more and more, like McHale with her limited game already proved? I mean it's not like most of the matches are in her own hands, now is it?

FPC
Sep 19th, 2011, 11:46 AM
No.

Rest Maria!
Sep 19th, 2011, 12:02 PM
I love how Push stans have "no doubt" that she'll win the slam, while other much more talented and capable players like Dementieva failed to do so...do they really think that other girls will not start beating her more and more, like McHale with her limited game already proved? I mean it's not like most of the matches are in her own hands, now is it?

It's not like Wozniacki's fanbase is more delusional than any other particular fanbase. I'd say certain other camps have a much bigger delusion of grandeur. I'd agree though there's no way she wins a slam unless she significantly changes her game, which mean it's unlikely to happen as there aren't many players who manage to change their game throughout their career.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 19th, 2011, 12:23 PM
It's not like Wozniacki's fanbase is more delusional than any other particular fanbase. I'd say certain other camps have a much bigger delusion of grandeur. I'd agree though there's no way she wins a slam unless she significantly changes her game, which mean it's unlikely to happen as there aren't many players who manage to change their game throughout their career.
You guys really need to learn that the comments from certain individuals don't speak for a players entire fanbase. I for one have never said that Wozniacki will ever win a slam and there are other Wozniacki fans that never have said such a thing either. But those that say that "there is no way that she will ever win one" are just as guilty of just writing down what they wish for as those that say that she'll win slams all over the place.

Rest Maria!
Sep 19th, 2011, 12:47 PM
Caro's game is what it is. Great anticipation, on court movement and consistency are great strengths in tennis (she's number 1 in runkings for a reason), but typically during a GS tournament its champion displays all of the above and more. The way Wozniacki has been playing, it's hard to anticipate that she'll start being offensive when it's needed the most. It's sport so anything can happen and she may be an evolved and complete player 3 years from now, but at the moment it's hard to expect her to win a slam.

Chrissie-fan
Sep 19th, 2011, 01:04 PM
Caro's game is what it is. Great anticipation, on court movement and consistency are great strengths in tennis (she's number 1 in runkings for a reason), but typically during a GS tournament its champion displays all of the above and more. The way Wozniacki has been playing, it's hard to anticipate that she'll start being offensive when it's needed the most. It's sport so anything can happen and she may be an evolved and complete player 3 years from now, but at the moment it's hard to expect her to win a slam.
I don't expect anything - I hope, just like any fan of any other player hopes. Since I became a Woz fan early in 2009 she's done much better than I would have dared hope for at the time, so she's already exceeded my expectations and I'm not obsessed with her winning a slam, but I would be delighted if she did of course.

bandabou
Sep 19th, 2011, 01:35 PM
Eventually the chips WILL fall right for her to win a major. Two things are clear:
-It'll have to happen at a HC major
-She'll need help.

Caro's game as currently made up is obvious that she can't win a major on her own. Too many players who can beat her too easily...so she'll just have to hope that the other players flame out ( like most of them did at the Open) and then maybe..

GrandMartha
Sep 19th, 2011, 01:39 PM
sadly she will. Not because of her game but lucky draws :tape:

Novichok
Sep 19th, 2011, 02:07 PM
sadly she will. Not because of her game but lucky draws :tape:

All draws involve luck. She'd still have to use her game to get through them.:rolleyes:

Chrissie-fan
Sep 19th, 2011, 02:29 PM
Eventually the chips WILL fall right for her to win a major. Two things are clear:
-It'll have to happen at a HC major
-She'll need help.

Caro's game as currently made up is obvious that she can't win a major on her own. Too many players who can beat her too easily...so she'll just have to hope that the other players flame out ( like most of them did at the Open) and then maybe..
That could be true, but for me it wouldn't really matter if she'd have to beat Oudin, Flipkens and Peer to win the title instead of Kvitova, Clijsters and Serena (Ok, I admit that the second option would taste even sweeter ;)). If those that are supposed to be better than Caro would be eliminated before they get to her, or if they play poorly when they stand across the net from her it would be THEIR failure, not Caro's.

Melange
Sep 19th, 2011, 02:35 PM
You think Caro will last until 31 with that schedule and style of play?

http://roccosrevolution.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/oprah.gif

I think she'll be lucky to still be competitive at 25 TBH. If she loses even half a step, she's basically toast.

add to that shes become quite heavy

SM
Sep 19th, 2011, 03:08 PM
Can she yeah, will she who knows, will it be anytime soon? probably not with players like serena still active..

bandabou
Sep 19th, 2011, 03:43 PM
That could be true, but for me it wouldn't really matter if she'd have to beat Oudin, Flipkens and Peer to win the title instead of Kvitova, Clijsters and Serena (Ok, I admit that the second option would taste even sweeter ;)). If those that are supposed to be better than Caro would be eliminated before they get to her, or if they play poorly when they stand across the net from her it would be THEIR failure, not Caro's.

My friend...winning is winning. If it's easy come? Easy come! If it's to be the hard way, then you better be Serena. :lol:

atennisfanid
Sep 19th, 2011, 03:50 PM
Her best chance is at AO.
If she can't do it there......

TheBoiledEgg
Sep 19th, 2011, 03:57 PM
Woz is like Hewitt of ATP roll back 10yrs
he won his 2 slams whilst at top and then slowly faded into oblivion

if you cant win a slam whilst at top, then its only one way from there.

Matt01
Sep 19th, 2011, 06:10 PM
Clijsters the way she played in the U.S Open final would have destroyed Wozniacki. Especialy since Wozniacki has never beaten Kim, and couldnt even beat an erratic Kim on her own best day in the WTA Champs final.


Such crap :tape: :help: