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View Full Version : What do you think about Saudi Arabia?


M.S.F
Jul 8th, 2011, 09:19 PM
Say or ask anything about it :)

Apoleb
Jul 8th, 2011, 09:21 PM
Hell.

delicatecutter
Jul 8th, 2011, 09:25 PM
Not a very nice place for women to live

miffedmax
Jul 8th, 2011, 09:25 PM
I think the region has a long and fascinating history. I'm not Islamic, but I find the secular history of Muhammad very interesting.

ico4498
Jul 8th, 2011, 10:33 PM
Mecca, oil, $$$ ...

The Witch-king
Jul 8th, 2011, 10:37 PM
Sounds boring as fuck

Solitaire
Jul 8th, 2011, 11:43 PM
Nothing good at all.

Specter
Jul 9th, 2011, 12:01 AM
My country may or may not be selling them 200 new tanks. Can't be that bad of a place. :shrug:

Keegan
Jul 9th, 2011, 12:20 AM
It's a fascinating place, with interesting rules and history. I'd like to visit the region at one point in life due to my interest in the religion and Islamic history :).

homogenius
Jul 9th, 2011, 12:24 AM
I'd like to know what are the most frequent stereotypes you hear/read about your country.

currie84
Jul 9th, 2011, 12:55 AM
what are you gonna do once oil runs out?

NoppaNoppa
Jul 9th, 2011, 01:05 AM
Limited minded folk, that treat women like cattle.

Hard core Shi´te muslims. That want world to obey THEIR way of life.

You asked. I answered.

edit: Worst shithole in earth, unless you are in charge. Only comparable to North-Korea and Zimbabwe.
edit2: Only country that still uses slave workers. Openly.

NoppaNoppa
Jul 9th, 2011, 01:20 AM
I'd like to know what are the most frequent stereotypes you hear/read about your country.

I´d like to hear that as well!

Lin Lin
Jul 9th, 2011, 01:22 AM
Mysterious
Hot
Dry
Rich

Ziggy Starduck
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:01 AM
I think it's sad that Saudi Arabia doesn't let women vote and drive cars (rural areas being an exception), if the women don't want to vote or drive that's fine but they should be given the opportunity/choice, same goes with better education :shrug: I also think minimum age marriage laws should be introduced. I could go on and on.

The climate is harsh but from what I've read you have interesting fauna :)

Milito22
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:06 AM
beautiful lenguage :)

Lord Choc Ice
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:18 AM
DMn9y7-Yr9Y

Root
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:22 AM
I´d like to hear that as well!

:lol: Pretty much what's mentioned in your previous post I would guess.

Expat
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:54 AM
It's nice that it is staying firm on its culture and hasn't changed. It gives you a nice example of how life was in the 7th century without the need to time travel.

The Witch-king
Jul 9th, 2011, 02:59 AM
Say or ask anything about it :)

U obviously need to educate the masses

Danči Dementia
Jul 9th, 2011, 04:09 AM
U obviously need to educate the masses
dude/dudette, why are you being rude? :shrug:

........


gorgeous language, gorgeous antique culture, a country I would definitely like to visit one day.

ptkten
Jul 9th, 2011, 04:15 AM
Limited minded folk, that treat women like cattle.

Hard core Shi´te muslims. That want world to obey THEIR way of life.

You asked. I answered.

edit: Worst shithole in earth, unless you are in charge. Only comparable to North-Korea and Zimbabwe.
edit2: Only country that still uses slave workers. Openly.

They're Sunni.

Specter
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:08 AM
I'd like to know what are the most frequent stereotypes you hear/read about your country.

Just read this thread. I think we've caught them all already. :lol:

bulava
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:31 AM
A Sword on a Green Flag :)

NoppaNoppa
Jul 9th, 2011, 09:33 AM
They're Sunni. Oops. My bad. Have always thought shi´tes are the evil ones. :mad: I have to count them muslims all evil now!

NoppaNoppa
Jul 9th, 2011, 09:35 AM
A Sword on a Green Flag :) Green is colour of Islam. All have it in their flag.

NoppaNoppa
Jul 9th, 2011, 09:36 AM
It gives you a nice example of how life was in the 7th century without the need to time travel.

Win. Winwinwin.

NoppaNoppa
Jul 9th, 2011, 09:43 AM
Pretty much sums up the thread.

http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Saudi-Arabia-apartheid-road-sign-to-Mecca-non-Muslims.jpg

bulava
Jul 9th, 2011, 09:54 AM
Green is colour of Islam. All have it in their flag.
Is it? I know at least two countries which got nothing to do with Islam!
Brazil and Jamaica :)

NoppaNoppa
Jul 9th, 2011, 09:58 AM
Is it?

I think so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_in_Islam

Green is considered the traditional color of Islam. Islam used/uses this shade of green symbolically because the tribe of the prophet Muhammad had a green banner and because to them green represented paradise (the Persian word for garden) to desert-dwelling Bedouin tribes when they gathered at an oasis.

Specter
Jul 9th, 2011, 10:00 AM
Is it? I know at least two countries which got nothing to do with Islam!
Brazil and Jamaica :)

He didn't say that only Muslim nations had it in their flag. ;)

Green is colour of Islam. All have it in their flag.

Egypt? Qatar? Bahrain? Somalia? Tunisia? Yemen? :shrug:

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 10:48 AM
Hell.

Oh come on now, you should support your fellow Arab :lol:


Not a very nice place for women to live
I think it's sad that Saudi Arabia doesn't let women vote and drive cars (rural areas being an exception), if the women don't want to vote or drive that's fine but they should be given the opportunity/choice, same goes with better education :shrug: I also think minimum age marriage laws should be introduced. I could go on and on.

The climate is harsh but from what I've read you have interesting fauna :)

Three rights the women in Saudi Arabia doesn't have:
1- Driving.
2- Job opportunities.
3- Right to vote (but there is nearly nothing to vote for here :lol: ) and participation in politics.
If women here can get these three things then their life will be perfect.
Their chances in high education are equal to males but most of them get a degree and end up without a job.
There is an improvement in number of jobs for Saudi women right now but the ban on driving should be lifted very soon.


I think the region has a long and fascinating history. I'm not Islamic, but I find the secular history of Muhammad very interesting.

If people look more into the history they will respect it and understand it much more.


It's a fascinating place, with interesting rules and history. I'd like to visit the region at one point in life due to my interest in the religion and Islamic history :).

You're welcome at anytime :)

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 10:57 AM
Mecca, oil, $$$ ...

:hearts:


Sounds boring as fuck
I just want cinema to be allowed in the country :sobbing:
But it's actually not boring at all, at least in the big cities.
My city Jeddah is great if you want to have fun :hearts:
Also the desert can be a very good place to just chill out and have fun away from everything.


Nothing good at all.
Why?

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 11:05 AM
I'd like to know what are the most frequent stereotypes you hear/read about your country.

Radical muslims
Oppressed women
Rich
Camel lovers :lol:
Crazy drivers :lol:

ElusiveChanteuse
Jul 9th, 2011, 11:44 AM
Firstly, it's a kingdom.:eek: :worship: then oil, women covering themselves except their eyes, men wearing big white clothes.:p

Apoleb
Jul 9th, 2011, 11:53 AM
Oh come on now, you should support your fellow Arab :lol:



:lol: I kinda do. Nothing about the people or the country itself. Just not a fan of the regime (Lebanon is a hot mess too btw).

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 12:33 PM
Limited minded folk, that treat women like cattle.

Hard core Shi´te muslims. That want world to obey THEIR way of life.

You asked. I answered.

edit: Worst shithole in earth, unless you are in charge. Only comparable to North-Korea and Zimbabwe.
edit2: Only country that still uses slave workers. Openly.

Stereotyped much? :lol:

The Majority of the country is Sunni.
About 10% is Shia, most of them live in the east and the south.

I don't know about Zimbabwe.
But how can you compare it to North Korea?! :o

Can you explain what you mean by "slave workers"?


Mysterious
Hot
Dry
Rich
You mean very very very hot :sobbing:

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 12:36 PM
what are you gonna do once oil runs out?

Many people will probably go back to rural life.
Regions like Mecca, Madinah and Jeddah will always have a good economy because of Hajj and Umrah.
All gulf countries are aware of that.

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 12:47 PM
beautiful lenguage :)
gorgeous language, gorgeous antique culture, a country I would definitely like to visit one day.
Thank you :)


DMn9y7-Yr9Y
That's not really in Saudi Arabia.
Something like Iraq maybe.


:lol: Pretty much what's mentioned in your previous post I would guess.
:lol:


It's nice that it is staying firm on its culture and hasn't changed. It gives you a nice example of how life was in the 7th century without the need to time travel.
I don't think it really shows how life was in the 7th century :unsure:
But yeah we did a good job with keeping some of our traditions and culture alive to this day.


A Sword on a Green Flag :)
Very meaningful flag, one of the best in the world for sure :yeah:

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 01:02 PM
Oops. My bad. Have always thought shi´tes are the evil ones. :mad: I have to count them muslims all evil now!
:o

Pretty much sums up the thread.

http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Saudi-Arabia-apartheid-road-sign-to-Mecca-non-Muslims.jpg
Most Muslim scholars agreed that non-Muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca and Madinah.
I think that rule will not change even if the government was secular.
It is very sensitive issue.

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 01:15 PM
Firstly, it's a kingdom.:eek: :worship: then oil, women covering themselves except their eyes, men wearing big white clothes.:p

All Saudi women wear Hijab of course but not all of them cover their faces.
Men wear "Thobe", it is quite good in hot weather but still not enough sometimes :lol:


:lol: I kinda do. Nothing about the people or the country itself. Just not a fan of the regime (Lebanon is a hot mess too btw).
The whole Middle East is a hot mess now :sad:

The Witch-king
Jul 9th, 2011, 03:25 PM
dude/dudette, why are you being rude? :shrug:



How was I being rude?

Keegan
Jul 9th, 2011, 04:28 PM
Oops. My bad. Have always thought shi´tes are the evil ones. :mad: I have to count them muslims all evil now!


Really? :o

Ashi
Jul 9th, 2011, 05:09 PM
Monarchy, Pilgrimage to the Haj, Beautiful Islamic Architecture, Strict laws, and is Public Flagellation still practised there? :unsure:

canuckfan
Jul 9th, 2011, 05:32 PM
Do you agree with the building of this monstrosity right beside the holiest site in islam?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/42448064.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/17/article-0-0C1CF155000005DC-549_964x634.jpg

It looks like a tacky hotel you would find in Las Vegas.

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/3129153-New_York_New_York-Las_Vegas.jpg

WhoAmI?
Jul 9th, 2011, 05:43 PM
Rich bastards :lol:
Wear white long clothes (sure, there's a name for those that I just don't know).
Men have a few wives and loads of kids.
Hot. Desert.

-----------------
Some things mentioned in this thread really surprised me. Like this sign: separate roads to moslems and non-moslems:speakles: I mean, how do they control that?
And no cinemas? But you do have TVs, right? So why there are no cinemas?

Is it true that Arabians go to the western countries to relax and rest of their countries regime? Like there aren't so many restrictions, especially for women.

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 05:48 PM
Monarchy, Pilgrimage to the Haj, Beautiful Islamic Architecture, Strict laws, and is Public Flagellation still practised there? :unsure:

Yes but they are rare.

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:04 PM
Do you agree with the building of this monstrosity right beside the holiest site in islam?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/42448064.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/17/article-0-0C1CF155000005DC-549_964x634.jpg

It looks like a tacky hotel you would find in Las Vegas.

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/3129153-New_York_New_York-Las_Vegas.jpg

Against it for sure.
I hate the modernization of holy and heritage sites.
Many heritage sites were destroyed in Mecca and Madinah for these buildings :sad:
There is benefits from them but some places are very special.

Root
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:18 PM
http://www.kalharbi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/blocked1.png

One of the things that come to mind. Does click here really do anything? :lol:

antonella
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:45 PM
Do you agree with the building of this monstrosity right beside the holiest site in islam?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/42448064.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/17/article-0-0C1CF155000005DC-549_964x634.jpg

It looks like a tacky hotel you would find in Las Vegas.

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/3129153-New_York_New_York-Las_Vegas.jpg

Wonder if the Al-Qa'ida skyjacker pilots have that one on their target list?? Seems more of an affront to their
religion than the WTC twin-towers ever were.

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:55 PM
Rich bastards :lol:
Wear white long clothes (sure, there's a name for those that I just don't know).
Men have a few wives and loads of kids.
Hot. Desert.

-----------------
Some things mentioned in this thread really surprised me. Like this sign: separate roads to moslems and non-moslems:speakles: I mean, how do they control that?
And no cinemas? But you do have TVs, right? So why there are no cinemas?

Is it true that Arabians go to the western countries to relax and rest of their countries regime? Like there aren't so many restrictions, especially for women.

It is called "Thobe".

I can say that only 1 out of 10 men have more than one wife.
The birthrate is very high, most families have more than four kids.

There is many checkpoints there and it's not just for that but also for things like people who go for Hajj without notification.

Of course we have TVs :lol:
And there is no restriction on TV channels or anything like that.

We don't have cinemas because many people believe that most movies are inappropriate for the society and they can't be showed in public.

Yes it is true, many Saudis travel outside every year but mostly as families and not just for western countries.
Many go to Muslim countries like Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia and of course Arab countries.

Ashi
Jul 9th, 2011, 06:58 PM
The birthrate is very high, most families have more than four kids.


This is true for most muslim/islamic countries/ families. Not only in Saudi Arabia.

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:00 PM
http://www.kalharbi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/blocked1.png

One of the things that come to mind. Does click here really do anything? :lol:

OMG :lol:
Don't waste your time on trying :lol:
But most blocked sites are porn sites and there is nothing wrong about blocking them.

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:06 PM
This is true for most muslim/islamic countries/ families. Not only in Saudi Arabia.

Yes :)
Religious societies tend to have high birthrate.

Apoleb
Jul 9th, 2011, 07:12 PM
M.S.F., if you want to change things about Saudi Arabia, what would you change? Would you like your country to be run in a fashion similar to any specific country?

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 08:14 PM
M.S.F., if you want to change things about Saudi Arabia, what would you change? Would you like your country to be run in a fashion similar to any specific country?

Three things comes to my head now:
- Giving the citizens bigger rule and more freedom of speech in politics.
- Reducing the number of foreigner workers in the country and let the country be more dependent on its own citizens.
- The Population distribution should be fixed, the country is very big but half of the population live in three cities (Riyadh, Jeddah and Dammam).

Saudi Arabia is very different from any other country because it is the center and first representative of Islam.
Islam is the most important thing about it.
I can't even see it become like UAE or Qatar.

WhoAmI?
Jul 9th, 2011, 09:08 PM
There is many checkpoints there and it's not just for that but also for things like people who go for Hajj without notification.

This is really hard for me to understand:sobbing: How would they differ between a moslem-arab, and non-moslem arab (are there publicly non-religious or people from other religions? sorry if it's a stupid question). I know something like that is also in Egypt outside the tourist spots.


Of course we have TVs :lol:
And there is no restriction on TV channels or anything like that.

We don't have cinemas because many people believe that most movies are inappropriate for the society and they can't be showed in public.
So, you don't make your own movies or something?

But you can probably download the stuff you want on Internet anyway..:shrug:
Are there any popular sites that are blocked?

Describe the school system. When do you start? How long is the school year, and day? What subjects get more attention? etc

Joana
Jul 9th, 2011, 10:15 PM
Some things mentioned in this thread really surprised me. Like this sign: separate roads to moslems and non-moslems:speakles: I mean, how do they control that?


I believe it's because that's a road to Mecca, and non-Muslims are not allowed there. I don't know how they check who's a Muslim though. :unsure:

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 11:42 PM
This is really hard for me to understand:sobbing: How would they differ between a moslem-arab, and non-moslem arab (are there publicly non-religious or people from other religions? sorry if it's a stupid question). I know something like that is also in Egypt outside the tourist spots.

They ask for IDs or Passports.
The religion of the residents is known from their ID.
And people who live outside of the country are also easy to identify because they enter the country from the beginning as Pilgrims if they are coming only for Hajj or Umrah.
But i'm not sure 100% about all of this.

So, you don't make your own movies or something?

There is a good number of young people in the last years who are making short movies which is a very good start.

Like this one
RQuosUD6qNQ
The movie is called "Daken" in Arabic which means Dark.
There is english subtitles.

But you can probably download the stuff you want on Internet anyway..:shrug:
Are there any popular sites that are blocked?

But i have to wait months until the movie comes out in DVD so i can download it in a good quality and that sucks :o
Bebo is the only one i know to be blocked.

Describe the school system. When do you start? How long is the school year, and day? What subjects get more attention? etc
-Education is free.
-No mix between Males and Females.
-We begin at age of 6.
-Study for 12 years (6 years in elementary school, 3 years in intermediate school and 3 years in high school).
-School day starts at 7 am and finish at 1 pm.
-Two terms every year (8 months).
-All subject get the same amount of attention, only in high school you see the difference between subjects because of what you choose to study.

I will also talk about high education
-Education is free and students get one thousand riyals every month. :cool:
-No mix between Males and Females.
-Students must take special exams after finishing high school to get accepted into the university.
-Most universities have "preparatory year" mainly to improve the students English language.
-Bachelor degree takes 5 years most of the time.

By the way, the weekend in Saudi Arabia is Thursday and Friday. (Friday is not fun here :sad: :lol: )

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 11:44 PM
I believe it's because that's a road to Mecca, and non-Muslims are not allowed there. I don't know how they check who's a Muslim though. :unsure:

Yes it's the road to Mecca.
Same thing for Madina also.

M.S.F
Jul 9th, 2011, 11:56 PM
Watch Misho (6 years old) talking about Saudi women driving.
He is the most famous Saudi kid on the internet and probably the most disliked :lol:

LCdmpxaXnoM

Noctis
Jul 10th, 2011, 12:03 AM
Rich Fap Fap. Slaves. Women Dancers.

cosmoose
Jul 10th, 2011, 01:22 AM
Say or ask anything about it :)

If you don't mind, can you say if you are guy or girl and your age?

This is really interesting thread :)

tennis-insomniac
Jul 10th, 2011, 04:05 AM
Hi, I've heard that in some Arab countries, for example, Iran, homosexuality is considered to be deadly sin and is punished by hanging, what's Saudi Arabia's view on that, and do you agree with that kind of punishment and policy?

I like how you acknowledge the woman's rights in Arab Countries like yours are below par and needed to be improved, obviously some religious beliefs are deadly wrong and retrograde.

Peace from Thailand.

useme
Jul 10th, 2011, 07:59 AM
-Education is free.
-No mix between Males and Females.
-We begin at age of 6.
-Study for 12 years (6 years in elementary school, 3 years in intermediate school and 3 years in high school).
-School day starts at 7 am and finish at 1 pm.
-Two terms every year (8 months).
-All subject get the same amount of attention, only in high school you see the difference between subjects because of what you choose to study.

I will also talk about high education
-Education is free and students get one thousand riyals every month. :cool:
-No mix between Males and Females.
-Students must take special exams after finishing high school to get accepted into the university.
-Most universities have "preparatory year" mainly to improve the students English language.
-Bachelor degree takes 5 years most of the time.

By the way, the weekend in Saudi Arabia is Thursday and Friday. (Friday is not fun here :sad: :lol: )

It's so good for high education! Great Job Saudi Arabia!

Payam
Jul 10th, 2011, 08:24 AM
I don't know whether anyone has asked it here or not, but do you guys drink alcohol? Or is it possible to drink there AT ALL or is it totally out of question?

flyingmachine
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:06 AM
Oil
$$$
Mecca
Dessert
Camels
Lack of Women's rights.
Religious (Islamic) extremism.

Payam
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:04 AM
Also do women have to have covering even when they are indoors? Such as parties?

How religious the people are? Do all the people there practice Islamic duties, such as daily prayer, on a daily basis or are there some liberal Muslims there too?

Also, what does the TV show if movies are banned? How many channels are there on the TV and do you have a cable TV too, or is it just a couple of national channels for all the viewers?

Is there a morality police there and what are its major duties?

How popular is the monarch/monarchy among the people, do they prefer a more democratic system of running the country?

Somewhere you mentioned elections, how many elections do you have? Is there a parliament and are there elections for that?

Is it true that they have been burying women before Islam? If yes, then how have they not become extinct?

How about the Shia/Sunny relations? Do they tolerate each other or does it sometimes become more violent than that?

Somewhere else you had mentioned Jeddah is good for having fun, what kind of fun do you mean? (correct me if I am wrong, but I guess dancing and partying are not on the menu, is that right?)

What do women think of the fellow Muslim women in other countries such as Turkey which have a more relaxed way of life. Do they think they are decadent? Or do they envy them? Or do they think each to his own?

And finally what do your people think of the Muslims in other countries, especially non-Arab Muslims, like Iranians, Turks, Malays etc.

I apologize that these are already too many questions, but I am very keen to ask them from a native of that country rather than reading about them from Wikipedia or somewhere else.

P.S. Share your own personal ideas with us about any of those questions that you like. If not, a general reply about any of them would be more than enough. Thanks a lot in advance.

P.S.2. How about TENNIS there? Is it popular or not? Does anyone play there professionally? How about women, can they play too?

Ashi
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:46 AM
Is it true that they have been burying women before Islam? If yes, then how have they not become extinct?
:confused:

Payam
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:56 AM
I meant burying their daughters alive.

WhoAmI?
Jul 10th, 2011, 11:15 AM
You mentioned that students get one thousand riyals every month. What can you get for 1000 riyals?

What's the most common thing you eat (don't just give the name of the dish, but also describe what it's made of)? Is it possible for you to grow your own food, or do you buy most of it in?

Do you have homeless people?

Is there a lot of corruption?

Do you study other foreign languages besides English at school?

Expat
Jul 10th, 2011, 11:27 AM
how many maids does an average saudi family have? apparently saudis have more maids than wives.

M.S.F
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:16 PM
If you don't mind, can you say if you are guy or girl and your age?

This is really interesting thread :)

Guy and i will turn 19 next month.

Hi, I've heard that in some Arab countries, for example, Iran, homosexuality is considered to be deadly sin and is punished by hanging, what's Saudi Arabia's view on that, and do you agree with that kind of punishment and policy?

I like how you acknowledge the woman's rights in Arab Countries like yours are below par and needed to be improved, obviously some religious beliefs are deadly wrong and retrograde.

Peace from Thailand.

It is also a big sin in Saudi Arabia, but we have different ways of punishment like cutting the head off by sword and many Muslim countries differ in the way of punishing people who make homosexual acts but Iran is probably the most strict.
It is known in Islam that you can keep it a secret if you make forbidden sexual acts and ask god for forgiveness.
The punishment can only happen if you confess by yourself or if you get caught by at least four people so that it doesn't become easy to accuse people.
And not all sexual acts have the same kind of punishment.
I can't say that i'm 100% against it or with it, i'm honestly still confused about some things.
Even Muslim scholars don't agree with each other on many things.

It's so good for high education! Great Job Saudi Arabia!
:)

I don't know whether anyone has asked it here or not, but do you guys drink alcohol? Or is it possible to drink there AT ALL or is it totally out of question?
No we don't.
Of course there is small number of people who try to drink but it is very risky.
Anyone caught drinking or selling alcohol will be punished.

tennis-insomniac
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:25 PM
It is also a big sin in Saudi Arabia, but we have different ways of punishment like cutting the head off by sword and many Muslim countries differ in the way of punishing people who make homosexual acts but Iran is probably the most strict.
It is known in Islam that you can keep it a secret if you make forbidden sexual acts and ask god for forgiveness.
The punishment can only happen if you confess by yourself or if you get caught by at least four people so that it doesn't become easy to accuse people.
And not all sexual acts have the same kind of punishment.
I can't say that i'm 100% against it or with it, i'm honestly still confused about some things.
Even Muslim scholars don't agree with each other on many things.





Well, isn't that comforting to know :p anyway thanks for the answer :)

Just Do It
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:27 PM
Also do women have to have covering even when they are indoors? Such as parties?

How religious the people are? Do all the people there practice Islamic duties, such as daily prayer, on a daily basis or are there some liberal Muslims there too?

Also, what does the TV show if movies are banned? How many channels are there on the TV and do you have a cable TV too, or is it just a couple of national channels for all the viewers?

Is there a morality police there and what are its major duties?

How popular is the monarch/monarchy among the people, do they prefer a more democratic system of running the country?

Somewhere you mentioned elections, how many elections do you have? Is there a parliament and are there elections for that?

Is it true that they have been burying women before Islam? If yes, then how have they not become extinct?

How about the Shia/Sunny relations? Do they tolerate each other or does it sometimes become more violent than that?

Somewhere else you had mentioned Jeddah is good for having fun, what kind of fun do you mean? (correct me if I am wrong, but I guess dancing and partying are not on the menu, is that right?)

What do women think of the fellow Muslim women in other countries such as Turkey which have a more relaxed way of life. Do they think they are decadent? Or do they envy them? Or do they think each to his own?

And finally what do your people think of the Muslims in other countries, especially non-Arab Muslims, like Iranians, Turks, Malays etc.

I apologize that these are already too many questions, but I am very keen to ask them from a native of that country rather than reading about them from Wikipedia or somewhere else.

P.S. Share your own personal ideas with us about any of those questions that you like. If not, a general reply about any of them would be more than enough. Thanks a lot in advance.

P.S.2. How about TENNIS there? Is it popular or not? Does anyone play there professionally? How about women, can they play too?

No if women are with them only or father/husband/brother/son ... They can see them without veil.

égalité
Jul 10th, 2011, 09:31 PM
Oops. My bad. Have always thought shi´tes are the evil ones. :mad: I have to count them muslims all evil now!

:spit: i think your brain is stuck in the 7th century.

Rocketta
Jul 10th, 2011, 10:30 PM
Interesting thread. How about honor killings, ie dads, or brothers killing the women in their family to save their honor. Does that happen in Saudi and if yes how much?

My mate is Iraqi and although he is extremely progressive (it's remarkable considering where he is from and how he grew up) I would never let him take our daughter with him to the middle east.... way too much i just don't agree with happening over there.

M.S.F
Jul 10th, 2011, 11:29 PM
Also do women have to have covering even when they are indoors? Such as parties?
No, they only cover when they are outside in public places or when there is men that she must cover in their presence like her cousin or her sister's husband.

How religious the people are? Do all the people there practice Islamic duties, such as daily prayer, on a daily basis or are there some liberal Muslims there too?
From what i see around me, most of the people are moderate and there is an increasing number of liberals and there is many young people who doesn't pray all the time.

Also, what does the TV show if movies are banned? How many channels are there on the TV and do you have a cable TV too, or is it just a couple of national channels for all the viewers?
Most of the people in the Middle East and North Africa watch a variety of channels (more than 500) by satellite television (Arabsat & Nilesat).

Is there a morality police there and what are its major duties?
Yes but they are not exactly a morality police.
Their major duties is to advice or warn people in public places if they do any thing inappropriate.
Like courting or what some guys wear or some haircuts they do or women who doesn't cover their hair or wear tight abayas.

How popular is the monarch/monarchy among the people, do they prefer a more democratic system of running the country?
Most people are happy with the monarchy because it brings political stability.

Somewhere you mentioned elections, how many elections do you have? Is there a parliament and are there elections for that?
We don't have a parliament but we have the "Consultative Assembly".
We don't pick its members and they have no power to pass or enforce laws.
Its job is draft laws and forward them to the council of ministers led by the king.
We only have Municipal elections

Is it true that they have been burying women before Islam? If yes, then how have they not become extinct?
We don't have anything like that at all.
It was common before Islam in the region because many fathers wanted boys instead of girls.
Islam forbidden this act strongly.

How about the Shia/Sunny relations? Do they tolerate each other or does it sometimes become more violent than that?
They are good with the Shia of the south but weak with the Shia of the east and there is so much tension lately between the two after some Shia protests in the east and what happened in Bahrain.

Somewhere else you had mentioned Jeddah is good for having fun, what kind of fun do you mean? (correct me if I am wrong, but I guess dancing and partying are not on the menu, is that right
Jeddah is generally more liberal compared to other cities in the country.
The population of the city is very diverse with Saudis and non-Saudis.
It is a coastal city and there is many activities because of that and many villages.
And there is so many big malls.
But yeah their is no night clubs so no dancing or partying but you can make your own party at home, just don't be loud :p

What do women think of the fellow Muslim women in other countries such as Turkey which have a more relaxed way of life. Do they think they are decadent? Or do they envy them? Or do they think each to his own?
Each to his own.
We all understand why countries differ from each other even if they have the same religion.

And finally what do your people think of the Muslims in other countries, especially non-Arab Muslims, like Iranians, Turks, Malays etc.
Many don't have a good picture about Iranians because of the problems between Sunnis and Shias in the whole Islamic world.
The relations with others are pretty good.

P.S.2. How about TENNIS there? Is it popular or not? Does anyone play there professionally? How about women, can they play too?
Not popular but there is some guys who try to play professionally i think.
Football is the most popular sport here and i hate it :lol:
Women have their own gyms.
Last year at the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics, equestrian Dalma Malhas (17 years) was the first Saudi women to play a sport professionally and won the bronze medal.
She was not in the Saudi team and played by her own.

http://www.alwatan.com.sa/Images/newsimages/3614/25AW36J_2208-1.jpg

http://dubaisession.com/wp-content/uploads/saudi-dalma-jokey.jpg

http://www5.0zz0.com/2010/09/22/12/645966684.jpg

With her mother

http://ksa.daralhayat.com/files/imagecache/medium_thumb/files/rbimages/1283021417830043400.jpg

M.S.F
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:03 AM
I can't believe that some of you thought that the picture in this thread mean that there is separate roads for Muslims and non-Muslims :sobbing: :lol:

ce
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:32 AM
Do you guys hate Carmen Bin Ladin ?
I just read her book about her family, and things she said about Arabia are not very nice.

M.S.F
Jul 11th, 2011, 12:51 AM
You mentioned that students get one thousand riyals every month. What can you get for 1000 riyals?
You can get an average laptop :p
It is valuable for most students.

What's the most common thing you eat (don't just give the name of the dish, but also describe what it's made of)? Is it possible for you to grow your own food, or do you buy most of it in?
There is many different types of food but the most famous dish is "Kabsa" mainly made from rice and meat.

Do you have homeless people?
We have many poor people but the number of homeless people is very small.

Is there a lot of corruption?
Unfortunately, yes.
Especially in trade.

Do you study other foreign languages besides English at school?
No.

how many maids does an average saudi family have? apparently saudis have more maids than wives.
Most families have only one maid and some families also have a driver.
Same thing for wives, most Saudi men have only one wife.
Interesting thread. How about honor killings, ie dads, or brothers killing the women in their family to save their honor. Does that happen in Saudi and if yes how much?

My mate is Iraqi and although he is extremely progressive (it's remarkable considering where he is from and how he grew up) I would never let him take our daughter with him to the middle east.... way too much i just don't agree with happening over there.
There is very small number of honor killings.
The crime rate in Saudi Arabia is low because of the strict rules in punishing.

M.S.F
Jul 11th, 2011, 01:02 AM
Do you guys hate Carmen Bin Ladin ?
I just read her book about her family, and things she said about Arabia are not very nice.

I didn't read the book.
I heard that the book was very bad and not recommended.
So yeah i guess we do :lol:

Payam
Jul 11th, 2011, 02:11 AM
Thanks a lot M.S.F. Now, I know much more about Saudi Arabia and I have got some overall authentic ideas about life there.

M.S.F
Jul 11th, 2011, 11:03 AM
Thanks a lot M.S.F. Now, I know much more about Saudi Arabia and I have got some overall authentic ideas about life there.

You're welcome.
My main goal of this thread is to let people know how life truly is in Saudi Arabia.

ce
Jul 11th, 2011, 01:19 PM
Thank you MSF :)

Just Do It
Jul 11th, 2011, 01:32 PM
A question for MSF, are you male or female ?

The Witch-king
Jul 11th, 2011, 01:55 PM
How are black people treated there?

M.S.F
Jul 11th, 2011, 02:36 PM
A question for MSF, are you male or female ?
Male.

How are black people treated there?
They are treated normally but there is still racism and prejudice like everywhere.
There is rich black Saudis but at the same time many of them are very poor due to lack of education and the bad conditions they were raised in it.

ElusiveChanteuse
Jul 11th, 2011, 03:28 PM
Can the holy sites be visited by non-Muslims?:eek: is there any attraction sites that can be visited by tourists?

M.S.F
Jul 11th, 2011, 03:49 PM
Can the holy sites be visited by non-Muslims?:eek: is there any attraction sites that can be visited by tourists?

Non-Muslims can't enter Mecca and Madinah.
There is heritage sites known for attracting tourists and the southwestern region is known for the high mountains, good weather and forests.

moemoe
Jul 11th, 2011, 05:01 PM
"If you have a clitoris, vulva, or a labia stay the hell away from saudi arabia"

NoppaNoppa
Jul 13th, 2011, 02:04 PM
M.S.F. apparently have no problem of his way of life.

Two questions.

"Holy stone" looks like this

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/saudi-arabia/mecca-mosque-photos/slides/mecca-black-stone-cc-toursaudiarabia.jpg

I do agree that it looks like a Holy place! But I have no desire of stoning it! I´d rather try to ENTER!

1) Why you stone it in the first place?
2) Do you have any problem with western view of your cult?

bavaria86
Jul 13th, 2011, 02:44 PM
saudi arabia is for sure a very exciting and interesting country:)
im very interested in the history of the region and especially the islamic architecture!
what a pity as a non moslem you are not allowed to enter mecca and madinah:sad:
but would like totravel and explore the country in the next years!

Solitaire
Jul 14th, 2011, 05:11 AM
You're welcome.
My main goal of this thread is to let people know how life truly is in Saudi Arabia.

Yes thanks for all the great answers and putting up with everyone. But this is SA reflected through your eyes and not a complete picture of the country itself.

M.S.F
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:36 PM
M.S.F. apparently have no problem of his way of life.

Two questions.

"Holy stone" looks like this

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/saudi-arabia/mecca-mosque-photos/slides/mecca-black-stone-cc-toursaudiarabia.jpg

I do agree that it looks like a Holy place! But I have no desire of stoning it! I´d rather try to ENTER!

1) Why you stone it in the first place?
2) Do you have any problem with western view of your cult?

We don't stone it, we actually kiss it and touch it.
It's small, you can only put her head inside.

Muslims stone during Hajj at Jamrah of Aqaba (Stoning of the Devil)

http://www.aleqt.com/a/171281_4043.jpg

I don't have that much of problem because it's completely understandable why some people question or have a negative view about a different culture.
I mean we also have negative views about western culture.
The main problem is when some people start insulting or enforce their own way of life on everyone.

M.S.F
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:43 PM
Yes thanks for all the great answers and putting up with everyone. But this is SA reflected through your eyes and not a complete picture of the country itself.

Of course, i'm just giving every thing i know and as someone said before it's better to get information from people who live in the country than going to Wikipedia and similar sites.

M.S.F
Jul 17th, 2011, 10:49 PM
This video is about car accidents in Saudi Arabia

hlUplHf3OoA

Very interesting and quite shocking with some numbers.
We have so many crazy drivers :o

NoppaNoppa
Jul 17th, 2011, 11:03 PM
The main problem is when some people start insulting or enforce their own way of life on everyone.

No it isn´t. Main problem is that you folks behead rape victims. Victims! Not perpetrators. Someone does not agree, you call it an insult agaist Islam. Well F* that. I insult that kind of maggot like behavior every second, minute, hour, day, week, month and year as long as there is a CHANGE to that!

Here in civilized world it is called critisism.

Root
Jul 17th, 2011, 11:11 PM
No it isn´t. Main problem is that you folks behead rape victims. Victims! Not perpetrators. Someone does not agree, you call it an insult agaist Islam. Well F* that. I insult that kind of maggot like behavior every second, minute, hour, day, week, month and year as long as there is a CHANGE to that!

Here in civilized world it is called critisism.

:weirdo:

NoppaNoppa
Jul 17th, 2011, 11:17 PM
:weirdo:

:confused:

ABC News http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=3899920&page=1

Saudi Arabia's Ministry of Justice is defending a sentence of 200 lashes for the victim of a gang rape, punished because she was in the car of a male who wasn't a relative when the two were attacked.

Also Mutaween (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutaween) equals Stasi to me.

Government authorized or government recognized religious police (or clerical police) of Saudi Arabia.

M.S.F
Jul 18th, 2011, 12:05 AM
No it isn´t. Main problem is that you folks behead rape victims. Victims! Not perpetrators. Someone does not agree, you call it an insult agaist Islam. Well F* that. I insult that kind of maggot like behavior every second, minute, hour, day, week, month and year as long as there is a CHANGE to that!

Here in civilized world it is called critisism.

Behead rape victims?!
So much false information.
If your view about Saudi Arabia is based on topics you read about all the time on western media then you should try to know more about the country from other sources.
Our country have so many big problems like unemployment, poverty, illegal residents, water shortage and corruption but no cares about these things in the western media obviously.
They only care about topics they are interested in like women and controversial topics like the one you posted.
Did the western media talk about Jeddah floods in the past 2 years?! I don't think so.

bvCgCJCHwD4

And as i said before, most people are moderate and their main concern is to have a job and house just like anyone else on earth.
Religious extremism peaked during the 80s and the 90s and there were many reasons behind that but the country is trying to be less conservative and there is many debates right now about the changes we are trying to make.
It will take time but many things will eventually change.

Andreas
Jul 18th, 2011, 12:19 AM
No it isn´t. Main problem is that you folks behead rape victims. Victims! Not perpetrators. Someone does not agree, you call it an insult agaist Islam. Well F* that. I insult that kind of maggot like behavior every second, minute, hour, day, week, month and year as long as there is a CHANGE to that!

Here in civilized world it is called critisism.

I have to agree here. I have on numerous occasions read and heard about the female victims being the punished ones in cases of rapes. I can not respect or like a country where women (to name one (big) part of the population) have no worth. M.S.F., it's fine that you're trying to kill some of the prejudices about Saudia Arabia, but it seems to me like you're avoiding the most serious ones. I have a friend who visits her family in Iran every summer, and I doubt the situation there is that much different from the one in Saudia Arabia.

M.S.F
Jul 18th, 2011, 10:58 AM
I have to agree here. I have on numerous occasions read and heard about the female victims being the punished ones in cases of rapes. I can not respect or like a country where women (to name one (big) part of the population) have no worth. M.S.F., it's fine that you're trying to kill some of the prejudices about Saudia Arabia, but it seems to me like you're avoiding the most serious ones. I have a friend who visits her family in Iran every summer, and I doubt the situation there is that much different from the one in Saudia Arabia.

What are the most serious ones?
The "Qatif girl" case (the one lisickifan posted) was pretty controversial and brought media attention everywhere and at the end the king issued official pardon for the two victims (the girl and the guy with her).
That judge was wrong with his judgment but justice was brought at the end.
The number of rapes and controversial cases didn't reach a huge number to be considered as a national problem.
We have so many other big problems that no one outside know or talk about unfortunately.
It makes me sad to see how the media picture the country with the same topics all the time and the way people start generalizing like if everyone in the country have the same way of life and thinking.

M.S.F
Jul 18th, 2011, 11:02 AM
I don't know if you are from Saudi Arabia or not.
If you are, I hope you can answer this question.

There have been reports that resistance to let girls play sport in Saudi Arabia is based on religious dictates.
I am sure, this is not explicitly spelled out in the Koran, so do you think this largely based on the interpreation of the Koran by conservative Islamic scholars?
Throwing this under the modesty umbrella

Or is this purely cultural, and religions is just used as a smoke screen to avoid defend this ban with secular arguments, which would present more of a challenge in today's world.

My understanding is, a great number of womean are highly educated in Saudi Arabia, yet, they cannot drive a car.

Both conservative religious scholars and some tribal traditions are the main reason behind going against it.
Same thing for driving, there is nothing in Islam that forbidden women from driving but some people fear that it will bring problems to the society and that it's dangerous for women to drive alone.
Many things related to women are connected to fear and protection.
I personally hope that women will be allowed to drive soon because life is harder right now and many women need to drive and you can't live comfortably in our cities without having a car but the other problem is that there is also women who agree with the driving ban which makes things more complicated.

Darop.
Jul 18th, 2011, 01:19 PM
Great thread :) I'm now even more curious to visit SA.

tennisbum79
Jul 18th, 2011, 02:49 PM
Both conservative religious scholars and some tribal traditions are the main reason behind going against it.
Same thing for driving, there is nothing in Islam that forbidden women from driving but some people fear that it will bring problems to the society and that it's dangerous for women to drive alone.
Many things related to women are connected to fear and protection.
How about other muslim countries where women are allowed to drive?
It seems to me it is more a need to control women rather than a genuine fear or concern for their safety.
I personally hope that women will be allowed to drive soon because life is harder right now and many women need to drive and you can't live comfortably in our cities without having a car but the other problem is that there is also women who agree with the driving ban which makes things more complicated.

This would happpen in any society that goes through social changes.

For example, in the US, some women supported ban on women working outside the home at all.
But during WWII, workers were needed to support the war ,so women were hired to work on assembly lines where amunition, rifles, uniform, etc.. were made.

More recently, conservative/Republican women were agaisnt admission of women at Wets Point, citing a combination of reasons, including but not limited to school tradition, cadet units cohesion, academic demands, physical demand, etc..
Some women still will NOT support the presence of women in certain profession: polcie chief, fire chief, alhtought that is changing.

Solitaire
Jul 18th, 2011, 11:58 PM
How about other muslim countries where women are allowed to drive?
It seems to me it is more a need to control women rather than a genuine fear or concern for their safety.


This would happpen in any society that goes through social changes.

For example, in the US, some women supported ban on women working outside the home at all.
But during WWII, workers were needed to support the war ,so women were hired to work on assembly lines where amunition, rifles, uniform, etc.. were made.

More recently, conservative/Republican women were agaisnt admission of women at Wets Point, citing a combination of reasons, including but not limited to school tradition, cadet units cohesion, academic demands, physical demand, etc..
Some women still will NOT support the presence of women in certain profession: polcie chief, fire chief, alhtought that is changing.

It's NEVER about concern it's always about control. Concern is just the pretty face they try to put on it.

Sammo
Jul 19th, 2011, 02:27 AM
I think that women are equal as men, and I'm a normal guy :shrug: But I despise feminism as much as I despise machism, I want real equality of chances, not unfair advantages for women. I don't like Saudi Arabia to be fair... A woman being stoned to death because of being infidel is just retarded and makes the ones that support it despicable.

tennisbum79
Jul 19th, 2011, 02:41 AM
I think that women are equal as men, and I'm a normal guy :shrug: But I despise feminism as much as I despise machism, I want real equality of chances, not unfair advantages for women. I don't like Saudi Arabia to be fair... A woman being stoned to death because of being infidel is just retarded and makes the ones that support it despicable.

You may not know it, feminism brought about equality in western societies.
The fight for equal pay for equal work. There are now more women in US colleges than men, reflecting the proportion in the population.

Example. In the US, Title 9 brought about parity in college sports.
That is why you have WNBA today, US Women soccer team.

Sammo
Jul 19th, 2011, 02:54 AM
You may not know it, feminism brought about equality in western societies.
The fight for equal pay for equal work. There are now more women in US colleges than men, reflecting the proportion in the population.

Example. In the US, Title 9 brought about parity in college sports.
That is why you have WNBA today, US Women soccer team.

Old feminism did, now the mentally sane women still fight for gender equality and the retarded women fight for the women's supremacy and men humiliation, which in my opinion, an impartial espectator, is pathetic.

tennisbum79
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:19 AM
Old feminism did, now the mentally sane women still fight for gender equality and the retarded women fight for the women's supremacy and men humiliation, which in my opinion, an impartial espectator, is pathetic.
You have another issue, a problem with women

Solitaire
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:21 AM
Old feminism did, now the mentally sane women still fight for gender equality and the retarded women fight for the women's supremacy and men humiliation, which in my opinion, an impartial espectator, is pathetic.

Who or what group is actively fighting for female supremacy and the humiliation of men???

delicatecutter
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:18 AM
I think that women are equal as men, and I'm a normal guy :shrug: But I despise feminism as much as I despise machism, I want real equality of chances, not unfair advantages for women. I don't like Saudi Arabia to be fair... A woman being stoned to death because of being infidel is just retarded and makes the ones that support it despicable.

I don't think feminism means what you think it means. :oh: And your "argument" (if you can even call it that) is rather repulsive in a thread about Saudi Arabia, where women have no rights at all.

M.S.F
Jul 19th, 2011, 06:42 PM
How about other muslim countries where women are allowed to drive?
It seems to me it is more a need to control women rather than a genuine fear or concern for their safety.


This would happpen in any society that goes through social changes.

For example, in the US, some women supported ban on women working outside the home at all.
But during WWII, workers were needed to support the war ,so women were hired to work on assembly lines where amunition, rifles, uniform, etc.. were made.

More recently, conservative/Republican women were agaisnt admission of women at Wets Point, citing a combination of reasons, including but not limited to school tradition, cadet units cohesion, academic demands, physical demand, etc..
Some women still will NOT support the presence of women in certain profession: polcie chief, fire chief, alhtought that is changing.

I'm pretty sure that the problem with many is that they are so afraid from the way everyone will cope with this change, they are just not ready it seems.
The subject of control depends on each family, some families are very strict and it will be hard for them to accept that while others have no problem at all with letting women drive.
For example, in the other gulf countries most people are very rich and every member of the family can get a car and most women have driving licence but there is still some women who doesn't drive.
People always fear change from what they are used to even if it was good.
Many in the country are against it at the moment but changing the rule will change opinions for sure.

M.S.F
Jul 19th, 2011, 06:43 PM
I think that women are equal as men, and I'm a normal guy :shrug: But I despise feminism as much as I despise machism, I want real equality of chances, not unfair advantages for women. I don't like Saudi Arabia to be fair... A woman being stoned to death because of being infidel is just retarded and makes the ones that support it despicable.

Never knew about something like that happening here.
When and where did you hear or read about that?!

M.S.F
Jul 19th, 2011, 06:44 PM
KOLHfIW5hyE

Watch the video until the end.

Darop.
Jul 20th, 2011, 01:56 AM
As for the driving part, the king also admitted that it was time for change and for women to start driving, when society was ready for it; but still many people (men and women alike) remain opposed to the idea.

As in all emancipation processes the right time is when the emancipated are ready to be emancipated: that's what happened with blacks, women, workers, etc.... Women in SA still don't seem to have a collective mentality to be able to gain emancipation, because the king really isn't that strict on these issues :shrug:





KOLHfIW5hyE

Watch the video until the end.

Must say I didn't like that talk.... Too simplicistic in the whole "cultural relativism" thing. People who dress immodestly are slaves of society? Too reductive.... Maybe she's right, but she's not considering having freedom of choice.
I agree with some of her conclusions, but not on how she gets there :p

Solitaire
Jul 20th, 2011, 03:41 AM
As in all emancipation processes the right time is when the emancipated are ready to be emancipated: that's what happened with blacks, women, workers, etc.... Women in SA still don't seem to have a collective mentality to be able to gain emancipation, because the king really isn't that strict on these issues :shrug:

It's not as easy as one would think.


At least she admits she's a slave to her society. As for the fantasy, houses, materialism the royal family lives in utter opulence while there's many many poor in SA. Just another case of do as I say not as I do from people in power. There's also the wikileaks file dump about SA's lower royalty partying in Jeddah violating sharia law.

Halardfan
Jul 20th, 2011, 04:28 AM
Saudi Arabia should be criticized, from a liberal perspective.

Sometimes we on the left pull our punches when regarding Muslim countries.

We are aware of the numerous grim legacy of western imperialism, and so shy away sometimes from tackling such things head on.

But we have to tackle it head on, to say that the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia is part tragic, part grimly comic. The action of men oppressing women from cradle to grave. It's a scandal that we in the west have gone along with such an apartheid style society.

M.S.F
Jul 20th, 2011, 10:50 AM
As for the driving part, the king also admitted that it was time for change and for women to start driving, when society was ready for it; but still many people (men and women alike) remain opposed to the idea.

As in all emancipation processes the right time is when the emancipated are ready to be emancipated: that's what happened with blacks, women, workers, etc.... Women in SA still don't seem to have a collective mentality to be able to gain emancipation, because the king really isn't that strict on these issues :shrug:

Couldn't agree more.

Must say I didn't like that talk.... Too simplicistic in the whole "cultural relativism" thing. People who dress immodestly are slaves of society? Too reductive.... Maybe she's right, but she's not considering having freedom of choice.
I agree with some of her conclusions, but not on how she gets there :p

I also don't agree with her on that point.
But i posted the video because it's simple on topics and answers (except for the webcam issue maybe) and this is what we need for some people who have little knowledge about Saudi Arabia because some people might surprised that a Saudi women is posting a video like this one on Youtube, that's how bad they think about it :lol:

M.S.F
Jul 20th, 2011, 10:53 AM
It's not as easy as one would think.


At least she admits she's a slave to her society. As for the fantasy, houses, materialism the royal family lives in utter opulence while there's many many poor in SA. Just another case of do as I say not as I do from people in power. There's also the wikileaks file dump about SA's lower royalty partying in Jeddah violating sharia law.

I don't think she said she is a slave to her society.
I think what she means is that as a Muslim woman, she must be modest and Saudi Arabia make it very easy for her to be modest more than anywhere else by applying the teachings of Islam.

Anyone one who is rich and doesn't care about religion can live in opulence and leisure behind closed doors with no one knowing about it and we have many of those unfortunately.
On the other hand there is people who are above the law, sad but true.

M.S.F
Jul 20th, 2011, 11:02 AM
Saudi Arabia should be criticized, from a liberal perspective.

Sometimes we on the left pull our punches when regarding Muslim countries.

We are aware of the numerous grim legacy of western imperialism, and so shy away sometimes from tackling such things head on.

But we have to tackle it head on, to say that the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia is part tragic, part grimly comic. The action of men oppressing women from cradle to grave. It's a scandal that we in the west have gone along with such an apartheid style society.

Everyone should let Saudis decide what they want by themselves.
There is really nothing that needs involvement from anyone.
Some conservative people are very sensitive and describe many things like driving as bad influence from the west :o
Any outside involvement will make things harder to solve and bring more opposed opinions.
We already have a good number of Saudis who can make changes and lets not forget that the new generations are less conservative, we just need to be patient.

M.S.F
Jul 20th, 2011, 11:09 AM
8KmvpBil5EA

Highly recommended, it is filmed in Jeddah :D

tennisbum79
Jul 20th, 2011, 03:03 PM
Everyone should let Saudis decide what they want by themselves.
There is really nothing that needs involvement from anyone.
Some conservative people are very sensitive and describe many things like driving as bad influence from the west :o
Any outside involvement will make things harder to solve and bring more opposed opinions.
We already have a good number of Saudis who can make changes and lets not forget that the new generations are less conservative, we just need to be patient.
I do not necessarily advocate that pressure from outside be the driving force to bring about changes in SA.

But come on, have you not learned?

The climate sweeping all SA neighbors, the violence it brings with it. That is what you want for your country?

Instead of being pro-active and try to inact some reforms now, you are advocating a status quo, giving for reason, the women are not ready, because they oppose their own emancipation.
Well, you should know it has always been like that all over the world.
Even in the US, there were conservative women organizations who fought against women equal rights in the USA.
There were blacks who thought their own people were not ready to be emancipated.
Very often, these voices are in the minoriry, but they get played up by people who resist the changes any way.

Waiting until those who want the rights demand them is usually too late to make reforms in a peaceful transition.
By then, they have grown so cycnical of the goverment and its institutions, that they do not trust any piece-meal approach.
Having waited for so long and built distrust in the goverment and its institutions, they will demand much more than the goverment is prepared , willing or "ready" to give them.
Inevitably, this scenario leads to violence confrontation as we have seen nuemrous times when he govrment has waited too long.

There more bad news for SA.
By this time, there will not be enough countries left in the region willing to support them and shield them from the tremendous international pressure that has been building over the years.
Most of its neighbors would have already made that transition, and I don't see them supporting a policy or practice they themselves find repugnant and retrograde.

Cassius
Jul 20th, 2011, 04:24 PM
The only good thing about Saudi Arabia is its name. Saudi Arabia sounds nice as it flows off the tongue.
If there was a championship for 'The Most Awful Country in the World' it would be a definite finalist.
Not sure if it would quite beat the Brutal Communist Dictatorship of... sorry I mean the People's Republic of North Korea though.

Darop.
Jul 20th, 2011, 04:39 PM
But we have to tackle it head on, to say that the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia is part tragic, part grimly comic. The action of men oppressing women from cradle to grave. It's a scandal that we in the west have gone along with such an apartheid style society.

You can't radically change societies from the outside, and history gives thousands of examples in which this attempt has failed miserably, often creating the opposite effect.
As I've said before, when SA women will be convinced and united enough to reach a common goal they will, until that happens it is obvious that the majority still doesn't dislike the system enough to attempt to change it. As I said before in this thread, maybe you didn't read it, the king is more than willing to give women more rights but he first wants to see a strong, active participation on their behalf, which there still hasn't been. I'm willing to bet many women still prefer society to be organized as it is now, though there are for sure more than a few dissidents.
Of course we hear more dissenting voices from SA than we do consenting ones, but that's just because the consenting voices don't make it into the newspaper.

M.S.F
Jul 20th, 2011, 05:05 PM
I do not necessarily advocate that pressure from outside be the driving force to bring about changes in SA.

But come on, have you not learned?

The climate sweeping all SA neighbors, the violence it brings with it. That is what you want for your country?

Instead of being pro-active and try to inact some reforms now, you are advocating a status quo, giving for reason, the women are not ready, because they oppose their own emancipation.
Well, you should know it has always been like that all over the world.
Even in the US, there were conservative women organizations who fought against women equal rights in the USA.
There were blacks who thought their own people were not ready to be emancipated.
Very often, these voices are in the minoriry, but they get played up by people who resist the changes any way.

Waiting until those who want the rights demand them is usually too late to make reforms in a peaceful transition.
By then, they have grown so cycnical of the goverment and its institutions, that they do not trust any piece-meal approach.
Having waited for so long and built distrust in the goverment and its institutions, they will demand much more than the goverment is prepared , willing or "ready" to give them.
Inevitably, this scenario leads to violence confrontation as we have seen nuemrous times when he govrment has waited too long.

There more bad news for SA.
By this time, there will not be enough countries left in the region willing to support them and shield them from the tremendous international pressure that has been building over the years.
Most of its neighbors would have already made that transition, and I don't see them supporting a policy or practice they themselves find repugnant and retrograde.

Women driving is a small problem compared to others like the high rate of unemployment, the poor infrastructure in cities like Jeddah (played a big rule in the floods) and administrative corruption.
Those are the ones that could really make people angry if officials don't make solutions.
I'm totally with letting women drive but it is a secondary issue compared to those.
Saudis are not used to protests and we did more than a great job to keep the country safe with what's going on around us even though we have so many similar problems to our neighbors but we know that the stability of Saudi Arabia is important to everyone and we don't want the country to turn into a mess.
That's why it's better right now to wait and work hard to make changes in a peaceful way.
It will take something very serious to spread violence and anger in Saudi Arabia not problems that the people themselves can allow or prevent like driving.

M.S.F
Jul 20th, 2011, 05:12 PM
The only good thing about Saudi Arabia is its name. Saudi Arabia sounds nice as it flows off the tongue.
If there was a championship for 'The Most Awful Country in the World' it would be a definite finalist.
Not sure if it would quite beat the Brutal Communist Dictatorship of... sorry I mean the People's Republic of North Korea though.

Really?
What do we leave for the poor African countries if Saudi Arabia is a definite finalist?
And it is way better than North Korea, no competition at all.

M.S.F
Jul 20th, 2011, 05:25 PM
You can't radically change societies from the outside, and history gives thousands of examples in which this attempt has failed miserably, often creating the opposite effect.
As I've said before, when SA women will be convinced and united enough to reach a common goal they will, until that happens it is obvious that the majority still doesn't dislike the system enough to attempt to change it. As I said before in this thread, maybe you didn't read it, the king is more than willing to give women more rights but he first wants to see a strong, active participation on their behalf, which there still hasn't been. I'm willing to bet many women still prefer society to be organized as it is now, though there are for sure more than a few dissidents.
Of course we hear more dissenting voices from SA than we do consenting ones, but that's just because the consenting voices don't make it into the newspaper.

I just want to add that King Abdullah opened two months ago in Riyadh the University of Princess Noura for females with a capacity of 40 thousands students.
Females already represent nearly 60% of the students in Bachelor programs in Saudi Arabia.

M.S.F
Jul 20th, 2011, 05:53 PM
qUcs_oOzSUY

:lol:

tennisbum79
Jul 20th, 2011, 07:22 PM
Women driving is a small problem compared to others like the high rate of unemployment, the poor infrastructure in cities like Jeddah (played a big rule in the floods) and administrative corruption.
Those are the ones that could really make people angry if officials don't make solutions.
I'm totally with letting women drive but it is a secondary issue compared to those.
Saudis are not used to protests and we did more than a great job to keep the country safe with what's going on around us even though we have so many similar problems to our neighbors but we know that the stability of Saudi Arabia is important to everyone and we don't want the country to turn into a mess.
That's why it's better right now to wait and work hard to make changes in a peaceful way.
It will take something very serious to spread violence and anger in Saudi Arabia not problems that the people themselves can allow or prevent like driving.

This is not about driving, but driving is symptomatic of more serious issues in the society.
You claim Saoudi are not used to protest, that is not necessarily a good thing.

With all the pent-up anger, they may explode one day against the regime.
The same anger that drive them to attack the west, unjustifiably blaming US and its allies for supporting the royal family and its oppressing rule.

Solitaire
Jul 21st, 2011, 07:12 AM
I don't think she said she is a slave to her society.
I think what she means is that as a Muslim woman, she must be modest and Saudi Arabia make it very easy for her to be modest more than anywhere else by applying the teachings of Islam.

Right which is the same thing she said about not being modest. Her society pressures her just as much to be modest as other societies pressure women not to be modest. The only difference is she gets to use Islam as an excuse.

Cassius
Jul 21st, 2011, 07:28 PM
Really?
What do we leave for the poor African countries if Saudi Arabia is a definite finalist?
And it is way better than North Korea, no competition at all.
The 'poor African countries' would be quarter finalists (actually to be fair, Somalia would probably beat you in the semis). A lot of those countries have at least some semblance of democracy. They may be poor but voting gives them at least the feel of having some sort of control over their lives, over their destiny.
The Kingdom denies even this to every one of its unfortunate citizens.
So, yes... really.

Also, being 'way better than North Korea' isn't really that big of an achievement. Every country in the world manages that ;)

Darop.
Jul 21st, 2011, 09:00 PM
The 'poor African countries' would be quarter finalists (actually to be fair, Somalia would probably beat you in the semis). A lot of those countries have at least some semblance of democracy. They may be poor but voting gives them at least the feel of having some sort of control over their lives, over their destiny.
The Kingdom denies even this to every one of its unfortunate citizens.
So, yes... really.

Also, being 'way better than North Korea' isn't really that big of an achievement. Every country in the world manages that ;)


UHMMMM........

How about Somalia, Congo, Sudan, Chad, Central African Republic, Niger, Eritrea etc.....? Are you serious when you say this?
At least Saudi Arabia guarantees food and health to many/most of it's citizens. "Feeling free" (which according to you is dropping a useless piece of paper into a ballot in a puppet democratic system) is much less important than having food and a health system, I hope you know.
Citizens of SA don't starve, have free healthcare and free studying at all levels, university included. That's NOWHERE NEAR all the african countries.

M.S.F
Jul 21st, 2011, 09:21 PM
The 'poor African countries' would be quarter finalists (actually to be fair, Somalia would probably beat you in the semis). A lot of those countries have at least some semblance of democracy. They may be poor but voting gives them at least the feel of having some sort of control over their lives, over their destiny.
The Kingdom denies even this to every one of its unfortunate citizens.
So, yes... really.

Also, being 'way better than North Korea' isn't really that big of an achievement. Every country in the world manages that ;)

The problem is not in the form of government but how every government is being operated.
An absolute monarchy is not always oppressive and the comparison between Gulf countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Oman and other Arabic countries like Egypt, Syria and Libya is a good example.
We don't feel the need for voting right now because we don't feel so much oppression and tyranny and we always had good leaders.
And another point, the country is safe and stable and you don't find this in many places around the world.

NoppaNoppa
Jul 22nd, 2011, 02:43 PM
Great stuff.

M.S.F. you are a minority here, religion wise. You make Saudis proud! Not with opinions, but behaviour. Taking this much critisism without flipping. Someone else would have issued a fatwa by now...

Earlier someone said that change allways comes from inside. 100% agree. Not much we on the outside can do. Only recent case that outside might have helped. Afghanistans Taliban. Though, that is debadable once troops leave that country. Saudi change in 20 years? That would be my guess. World was whole lot diffirent say 200 years ago. 1811? Child labour was common thing. Women had no rights etc. In the western world, things really changed only 100 years ago. Only 50 years ago women were still mostly child breeders, like they are in the moslem world nowadays. Slaves to men would be cruel but correct saying.

To last comment of M.S.F. From here looking in, your country is a tyranny. East-Germany was also safe and stable place. Official crime rates half of what West-Germany had. People were sooooooo happy :bounce:

Mikey.
Jul 22nd, 2011, 04:46 PM
M.S.F :worship: I really enjoyed reading all your insightful responses in this thread. Learnt a few new things along the way. :yeah:


KOLHfIW5hyE

Watch the video until the end.

I really didn't like this video for some reason. She actually seemed quite condescending and didn't really even seem like she knew where she was going with some of her arguments. "We do not believe that wearing what you want to wear and doing what you want to do is freedom, but being completely yourself is actual freedom." This sort of seemed like a giant contradiction to me. How else are you able to be an individual if you can't do what you want to do?

Also, I couldn't help notice that she was wearing make up! :lol: Is that not also a societal influence?

flyingmachine
Jul 23rd, 2011, 10:00 AM
Thanks M.S.F :) for talking to us about Saudi Arabia. This is very interesting experience and I have learn a few things from about Saudi Arabia which otherwise I will never know. :)

Just Do It
Jul 23rd, 2011, 11:39 AM
A set of questions for thread starter, is it safe to visit Saudi Arabia as a tourist ? Can you freely walk around the city casually dressed ? Can non Muslims visit mosques ? And what about women tourists who aren't Muslims ? Do they have to wear veil?

M.S.F
Jul 24th, 2011, 06:06 PM
Great stuff.

M.S.F. you are a minority here, religion wise. You make Saudis proud! Not with opinions, but behaviour. Taking this much critisism without flipping. Someone else would have issued a fatwa by now...

Earlier someone said that change allways comes from inside. 100% agree. Not much we on the outside can do. Only recent case that outside might have helped. Afghanistans Taliban. Though, that is debadable once troops leave that country. Saudi change in 20 years? That would be my guess. World was whole lot diffirent say 200 years ago. 1811? Child labour was common thing. Women had no rights etc. In the western world, things really changed only 100 years ago. Only 50 years ago women were still mostly child breeders, like they are in the moslem world nowadays. Slaves to men would be cruel but correct saying.

To last comment of M.S.F. From here looking in, your country is a tyranny. East-Germany was also safe and stable place. Official crime rates half of what West-Germany had. People were sooooooo happy :bounce:

As long as the country gives its citizens basic rights like food, desalinated water, health care, free education and safety, i don't think the word tyranny is a suitable word to describe it.

M.S.F :worship: I really enjoyed reading all your insightful responses in this thread. Learnt a few new things along the way. :yeah:

I really didn't like this video for some reason. She actually seemed quite condescending and didn't really even seem like she knew where she was going with some of her arguments. "We do not believe that wearing what you want to wear and doing what you want to do is freedom, but being completely yourself is actual freedom." This sort of seemed like a giant contradiction to me. How else are you able to be an individual if you can't do what you want to do?

Also, I couldn't help notice that she was wearing make up! :lol: Is that not also a societal influence?

Maybe she was just going somewhere after the video :lol:
There is no problem with little make-up with the way she is dressed :p
Women always appear like that on the national channels.

N9Mke7zdNJ4
iyoi6O4sSuU

M.S.F
Jul 24th, 2011, 06:23 PM
A set of questions for thread starter, is it safe to visit Saudi Arabia as a tourist ? Can you freely walk around the city casually dressed ? Can non Muslims visit mosques ? And what about women tourists who aren't Muslims ? Do they have to wear veil?

Unfortunately, there is no tourist visa right now.
It is safe but the field of tourism is largely ignored here unlike neighboring countries and the best way to enjoy your time here is to be with a citizen who knows many places.
But as a said before, it is hard to get a visa right now.

Men can wear anything, most young Saudis dress casually most of the time.

Yes, non-Muslims can visit mosques except for the two holy mosques in Mecca and Madinah.

Women must wear something modest so abaya is the best choice, many non-Muslim women who live here wear abaya but don't cover their hair.

M.S.F
Jul 24th, 2011, 07:28 PM
http://files.formspring.me/profile/20100726/n4d957d70988e1.jpg

Nayef Albluwi (know in the internet as CaesarPower) is a Saudi photographer from Riyadh known for his artistic work and videos of his trips on youtube.

I love his work, very creative and sometimes controversial.
Take a look : http://www.flickr.com/photos/caesarpower/

Archaeo
Jul 25th, 2011, 01:43 AM
This is a fascinating topic, M.S.F. In the United States, unfortunately, we barely ever get to see the positive side of the Islamic world. We only ever hear about bombings, soldiers dying, civilians being killed by so-and-so dictator, etc. A large number of Americans still have very negative attitudes toward Muslims, mostly because of this media coverage, 9/11, and overall xenophobia.

I'd love to visit Saudi Arabia sometime (although I might not be so eager if I weren't a guy :rolleyes:). Middle Eastern history is so interesting.

M.S.F
Jul 25th, 2011, 05:40 PM
This is a fascinating topic, M.S.F. In the United States, unfortunately, we barely ever get to see the positive side of the Islamic world. We only ever hear about bombings, soldiers dying, civilians being killed by so-and-so dictator, etc. A large number of Americans still have very negative attitudes toward Muslims, mostly because of this media coverage, 9/11, and overall xenophobia.

I'd love to visit Saudi Arabia sometime (although I might not be so eager if I weren't a guy :rolleyes:). Middle Eastern history is so interesting.

I really hope that all you guys here who want to visit Saudi Arabia can come soon, maybe i can meet you if there is a chance :yeah:

M.S.F
Jul 25th, 2011, 06:05 PM
Misho in Mecca :awww:

4-S9biWHmr4

His father disabled the comments and ratings in most videos because he knows what will happen by some freaks in the internet.
I feel sorry for him, he is smart and his father is taking good care of him but some videos brought so many haters and some people started making fun of him like the well-known Saudi comedian Fahad Albutairi

J87N8IEmwjM

I honestly laughed at that :lol:

Speaking of Fahad Albutairi, he is a comedian known for his comedy show "La Yekthar" on youtube

7leV0Zc7qI4

There is English subtitles.

Serenita
Jul 25th, 2011, 07:50 PM
8KmvpBil5EA

Highly recommended, it is filmed in Jeddah :D
Thank you M.S.F for this thread. I applaud you for staying the course even under intense discussions /opinions.
I've learnt much more about your country. :D

Darop.
Jul 26th, 2011, 05:05 PM
J87N8IEmwjM



That was good :haha:

TheHangover
Jul 26th, 2011, 06:00 PM
well not a good place to live, too HOT there, all that desert, no water. then there is the religion, i hate religion, every kind of religion, i want to be free to pray my god if i want i don't want nobody to tell me what i have to do when i have to pray, where i have to turn, what i have to dress, so i think Saudi Arabia is not properly the land of freedom.

if this can comfort you i think Israel is a really worst country


...and kebab is one of my favourite foods

TheHangover
Jul 26th, 2011, 06:11 PM
anyway what i'm sure of is that our media in europe and u.s.a. deliberately sell to us a distorted and negative or excessively negative image of all the islamic countries (we all know why)

tennisbum79
Jul 26th, 2011, 06:18 PM
I agree that M.S.F. is a capable advocate for his country.

But there is no denying there is a strong wind of change blowing in the middle east.
In the midst of this current, the Saudi lauthorities have convinced themselves tha they are immuned of those changes, and MSF has strongly defended that position.
I am so sure that is the a wise move.

M.S.F
Jul 26th, 2011, 08:01 PM
well not a good place to live, too HOT there, all that desert, no water. then there is the religion, i hate religion, every kind of religion, i want to be free to pray my god if i want i don't want nobody to tell me what i have to do when i have to pray, where i have to turn, what i have to dress, so i think Saudi Arabia is not properly the land of freedom.

if this can comfort you i think Israel is a really worst country


...and kebab is one of my favourite foods

The climate is definitely harsh.
Summer, Ramdan and fasting are at the same time in recent years :sobbing:
But i find it amazing how some of the European and American professors at my University adapted with the weather, most of them are old but always walk from their compound and walk long distances between buildings all day long and they live here for years.
One of them is in his 50s i think and won a marathon beating all the students :lol:

That's how life goes in religious, traditional and family oriented societies.
You can't overlook and choose somethings or else you will feel isolated.

I love kabab :hearts:
Did you eat another kind of food from the Middle East?

TheHangover
Jul 26th, 2011, 09:50 PM
The climate is definitely harsh.
Summer, Ramdan and fasting are at the same time in recent years :sobbing:
But i find it amazing how some of the European and American professors at my University adapted with the weather, most of them are old but always walk from their compound and walk long distances between buildings all day long and they live here for years.
One of them is in his 50s i think and won a marathon beating all the students :lol:

That's how life goes in religious, traditional and family oriented societies.
You can't overlook and choose somethings or else you will feel isolated.

I love kabab :hearts:
Did you eat another kind of food from the Middle East?



is it real that during the day on ramadan you can't even drink water? once i saw a documentary on megastructures where they were building a skyscraper in dubai and workers couldn't even drink water under the sun and 35°C until the evening, is it possible (physiologically)? that's cruel!

speaking about foods i like also cous cous a lot, but i think it'sa food more from the magreb area, but also in sicily cous cous is a traditional dish because sicily was an arab colony for a long time

M.S.F
Jul 26th, 2011, 10:18 PM
is it real that during the day on ramadan you can't even drink water? once i saw a documentary on megastructures where they were building a skyscraper in dubai and workers couldn't even drink water under the sun and 35°C until the evening, is it possible (physiologically)? that's cruel!

speaking about foods i like also cous cous a lot, but i think it'sa food more from the magreb area, but also in sicily cous cous is a traditional dish because sicily was an arab colony for a long time

Yes, we don't eat, drink, have sex etc, when we fast from dusk till sunset.
What we do to avoid hunger and thirst during the day is to eat and drink late at night before dusk.
Many postpone working outside during days of Ramadan especially in hot temperature.
That was wrong to let them work in these conditions, obviously they wanted to finish as soon as possible :o

Yeah couscous is North African food, i never tried it.

~{X}~
Jul 26th, 2011, 11:07 PM
Yes, we don't eat, drink, have sex etc, when we fast from dusk till sunset.
What we do to avoid hunger and thirst during the day is to eat and drink late at night before dusk.
Many postpone working outside during days of Ramadan especially in hot temperature.
That was wrong to let them work in these conditions, obviously they wanted to finish as soon as possible :o

Yeah couscous is North African food, i never tried it.

Don't I know it. I had a friend who celebrated Ramadan and omg it came at the worst timing ever. My parents went away and I had the house to myself for 9 days which could equate to LOTS OF SEX. I call him and he's like... "Oh I can't." I am like "WHAT!? Why?" "Oh Ramadan has started and I can't have sex, sorry."

I was so not happy. :lol::lol::lol:

WhoAmI?
Jul 30th, 2011, 12:13 PM
Do you have arranged marriages (by parents)? Is a marriage a mutual thing (by a man and a woman), or the guy gets
to choose a lady, and she has to agree? Is there a default time for dating before you can get married (well, if there's an arranged marriage, this wouldn't apply)? Is it easy to divorce (if it is an option at all)?

When do the kids usually move out of their parents house? Can a girl leave the parents house to live somewhere else when she's single?

M.S.F
Nov 25th, 2011, 06:51 PM
Back to this thread :bounce:

Do you have arranged marriages (by parents)? Is a marriage a mutual thing (by a man and a woman), or the guy gets
to choose a lady, and she has to agree? Is there a default time for dating before you can get married (well, if there's an arranged marriage, this wouldn't apply)? Is it easy to divorce (if it is an option at all)?

When do the kids usually move out of their parents house? Can a girl leave the parents house to live somewhere else when she's single?

Yes, parents play big role in marriages especially mothers.
It's mutual, both have the right to choose.
Both take a look at each other (by arrangement from parents) before starting anything.
What happen is that after the couple become officially married, they spend a period of time talking and going out (mostly around 6 months) to know more about each other before moving into a house and living together.
Some communities still follow the tribal tradition of marriage between cousins but since 2004, the goverment made the "premarital genetic screening" mandatory because of the high percentage of hereditary diseases and that resulted in sharp decline in marriage between relatives.

Not sure about how easy it's to get a divorce but if both sides wanted it then I guess it will be easy.

Young people stay with their parents until they get married (both boys and girls).
It's rare to see kids leaving their parents when they finish high school (unless they study or work outside of the city).
As for girls, some live in dormitories and small number of girls study outside of Saudi Arabia alone.
So yeah they can live outside their parents home if they needed to.

Sorry for this late reply, I'm such a lazy person :o :lol:

WhoAmI?
Nov 25th, 2011, 07:38 PM
Hey, I guess better late than never:lol::)

WozLolz
Nov 25th, 2011, 07:42 PM
Apologies if this has already been mentioned:

Aside from the women's issues (and by extension, the homosexicle issues), the super-shady U.S. love affair with the oil sheiks, and a whole lot of sand, one thing that has stuck with me for the last seven years was a scene in "Fahrenheit 9/11." :scared: I could not believe that in this day and age, there are sanctioned beheadings in public places. :tape: Absolutely appalling.:o (By the way, I'm sickened and embarrassed that we have the death penalty in the U.S., and that there are people who cheer every execution).

But wow. It's insane how something so barbaric can be cheered on. Sickening. :no: Just lopping off someone's HEAD so nonchalantly with a sword. Wow. :tape:

M.S.F
Nov 25th, 2011, 08:02 PM
Apologies if this has already been mentioned:

Aside from the women's issues (and by extension, the homosexicle issues), the super-shady U.S. love affair with the oil sheiks, and a whole lot of sand, one thing that has stuck with me for the last seven years was a scene in "Fahrenheit 9/11." :scared: I could not believe that in this day and age, there are sanctioned beheadings in public places. :tape: Absolutely appalling.:o (By the way, I'm sickened and embarrassed that we have the death penalty in the U.S., and that there are people who cheer every execution).

But wow. It's insane how something so barbaric can be cheered on. Sickening. :no: Just lopping off someone's HEAD so nonchalantly with a sword. Wow. :tape:

It's harsh, no doubt about it.
But you should look at the point behind it.
When the punishments are more strict then less crimes happen.
I find death penalty much better than life in prison when it comes to horrible cases of intentional killing for example.

Mr.Sharapova
Nov 27th, 2011, 03:46 PM
Muslim. Deserts all around :sobbing:. My best friend's name is Riad :lol:, according to the capital of Saudi Arabia.

Just Do It
Nov 27th, 2011, 04:40 PM
Back to this thread :bounce:



Yes, parents play big role in marriages especially mothers.
It's mutual, both have the right to choose.
Both take a look at each other (by arrangement from parents) before starting anything.
What happen is that after the couple become officially married, they spend a period of time talking and going out (mostly around 6 months) to know more about each other before moving into a house and living together.
Some communities still follow the tribal tradition of marriage between cousins but since 2004, the goverment made the "premarital genetic screening" mandatory because of the high percentage of hereditary diseases and that resulted in sharp decline in marriage between relatives.

Not sure about how easy it's to get a divorce but if both sides wanted it then I guess it will be easy.

Young people stay with their parents until they get married (both boys and girls).
It's rare to see kids leaving their parents when they finish high school (unless they study or work outside of the city).
As for girls, some live in dormitories and small number of girls study outside of Saudi Arabia alone.
So yeah they can live outside their parents home if they needed to.

Sorry for this late reply, I'm such a lazy person :o :lol:

Do you by this mean a girl will take a veil off in front of the boy before marriage ? I was always wondering, since Muslim women aren't allowed to be seen by men how does a guy who wants to marry them knows how does a girl look like ? Of course, I talk about girls who cover face completely.
Also, who is allowed to see a woman without veil ? Husband, father, brother for sure but was wondering for other relatives and grandfathers ?

M.S.F
Nov 27th, 2011, 05:37 PM
Do you by this mean a girl will take a veil off in front of the boy before marriage ? I was always wondering, since Muslim women aren't allowed to be seen by men how does a guy who wants to marry them knows how does a girl look like ? Of course, I talk about girls who cover face completely.
Also, who is allowed to see a woman without veil ? Husband, father, brother for sure but was wondering for other relatives and grandfathers ?

Yes, because the point of it is to see each other appearance and it's actually encouraged by Islam to avoid any problems.

Men who are allowed to see women without veil beside who you posted are her grandfather, uncle, brother through breastfeeding, stepson, stepfather, nephew.
It's men that she can't marry.

Just Do It
Nov 27th, 2011, 06:03 PM
Yes, because the point of it is to see each other appearance and it's actually encouraged by Islam to avoid any problems.

Men who are allowed to see women without veil beside who you posted are her grandfather, uncle, brother through breastfeeding, stepson, stepfather, nephew.
It's men that she can't marry.

I see. Does it sometimes happen that a marriage doesn't happen even though they saw each other ?
How old are you, I am really curious :D

M.S.F
Nov 27th, 2011, 06:17 PM
I see. Does it sometimes happen that a marriage doesn't happen even though they saw each other ?
How old are you, I am really curious :D

Yes and it happend to my older brother, the girl refused (awkward moment :o :lol:)
I'm 19.

WhoAmI?
Nov 27th, 2011, 06:24 PM
Yes, because the point of it is to see each other appearance and it's actually encouraged by Islam to avoid any problems.

Men who are allowed to see women without veil beside who you posted are her grandfather, uncle, brother through breastfeeding, stepson, stepfather, nephew.
It's men that she can't marry.

:confused::scared:

btw, how can a girl have a stepfather? if her father died and her mother re-married?

M.S.F
Nov 27th, 2011, 06:37 PM
:confused::scared:

btw, how can a girl have a stepfather? if her father died and her mother re-married?

:lol:
I meant children who were nursed by the same woman (milk siblings).

Yes, exactly.

Otlichno
Nov 27th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Great, great thread M.S.F.

I would never want to live in Saudi Arabia, I would have had my hand chopped off at the wrist if I did! :sobbing: But I understand how everyone looks at Saudi Arabia through a narrow lens, I would think it would be hard not to if you didn't live in an Arabic/Muslim country.

Happy to see you're proving some of these Saudi Arabia myths wrong. :D

Sammo
Nov 27th, 2011, 07:33 PM
I put any country where women are extremely underrated in the 'backward' category :wavey: It's just that it's been proven hundreds of times that the differences between individuals' capacity have nothing to do with their sex :shrug:

M.S.F
Dec 31st, 2011, 07:35 AM
I25INjonQ6I

Well that was bad :lol:

Just Do It
Dec 31st, 2011, 10:38 AM
^ :spit: Cartoons are hilarious, but some facts Americans stated are true.

However, do you guys celebrate New Years tonight ? Will there be something organized on town squares ?

M.S.F
Dec 31st, 2011, 12:52 PM
^ :spit: Cartoons are hilarious, but some facts Americans stated are true.

However, do you guys celebrate New Years tonight ? Will there be something organized on town squares ?

No, it's not allowed to organize celebrations which aren't related to Islam or Saudi culture like christmas or new years eve.

Just Do It
Dec 31st, 2011, 04:16 PM
^ There aren't any " illegal " private parties ?

M.S.F
Dec 31st, 2011, 04:26 PM
^ There aren't any " illegal " private parties ?

Of course there is.
It's just prohibited in public.

X-Night
Jan 26th, 2012, 09:32 PM
Hey bro!!! I was totally amazed by the way you run this thread. Very informative and explaining. You explained things that I'd never know how to explain xD

My questions to you..
I know that this section is not Tennis related but since this forum is about Tennis..
Which part of Saudi Arabia are you from?
Do you play Tennis? :p
If you do.. where can I find Tennis courts there? :lol:
is there clubs or communities or even coaching sessions existed?
or at least someone I can stroke with? :lol: (sounds desperate :p )

you see.. I've been studying oversea for my bachelor and during my journey I started to learn Tennis and now I became addicted to it so much!! So, I have no idea on how to find Tennis courts :p

Just Do It
Jan 26th, 2012, 09:48 PM
^ Good new question, are there tennis courts in SA :lol:

X-Night
Jan 26th, 2012, 10:05 PM
there should be.. but as far as I know.. from what I've been searching in google.com.sa :lol: that there are some tournaments were organized and many clubs representatives participated but unfortunately mostly for juniors as in under 16 or something like that.. and am still searching :p

Just Do It
Jan 26th, 2012, 10:13 PM
there should be.. but as far as I know.. from what I've been searching in google.com.sa :lol: that there are some tournaments were organized and many clubs representatives participated but unfortunately mostly for juniors as in under 16 or something like that.. and am still searching :p

Do you reside in SA ? If yes, I consider you are a male, right :unsure:

M.S.F
Jan 26th, 2012, 11:51 PM
Hey bro!!! I was totally amazed by the way you run this thread. Very informative and explaining. You explained things that I'd never know how to explain xD

My questions to you..
I know that this section is not Tennis related but since this forum is about Tennis..
Which part of Saudi Arabia are you from?
Do you play Tennis? :p
If you do.. where can I find Tennis courts there? :lol:
is there clubs or communities or even coaching sessions existed?
or at least someone I can stroke with? :lol: (sounds desperate :p )

you see.. I've been studying oversea for my bachelor and during my journey I started to learn Tennis and now I became addicted to it so much!! So, I have no idea on how to find Tennis courts :p

Hi :)
I'm from Jeddah in the westren region but currently I live in Dhahran in the eastren region because of university.

No, I don't play tennis at all unfortunately :o
Tennis is still not popular in Saudi Arabia.
Tennis courts are everywhere, you can find them in most sport clubs but the problem is with the number of people who like to play tennis.

X-Night
Jan 27th, 2012, 05:09 AM
Do you reside in SA ? If yes, I consider you are a male, right :unsure:

Yes I am from SA and yes I am a male :)

Punky
Apr 27th, 2013, 10:02 PM
what i know about SA

most of the 9/11 Terrorists came from SA
lots of oil
Dozens of princes and princesses


a few questions

1.do u see or think its possible that all the oil is more a curse to ur country then a blessing?

2.name on thing my country has that you would like to have in your country and name one thing your country has that my country doesnt that you would like my country to have?

3.why you have so much money from oil and the best everything can buy and i never heard of a Invention \ Patent \ technological innovation came from Saudi Arabia?

4.would you like to be a free men?

5.if there will be a poll one day to Abolish the monarchy and the king will became prime minister just like in any country in the west, would you vote yes?

شكرا

cheers men

saint2
Apr 27th, 2013, 10:10 PM
Great place to live...
No booze + women needs to wear burquas...

How on Earth do you even ask such a question "what do you think about Saudi Arabia" ? OF COURSE, its a Hell On Earth...

Thiudans
Apr 27th, 2013, 10:26 PM
A hellish mess of a client state

M.S.F
Apr 28th, 2013, 10:10 AM
1.do u see or think its possible that all the oil is more a curse to ur country then a blessing?

No but it's a bit of both.
Obviously oil gave us the chance to succeed as a state in the modern world and live comfortable lifes but religious extremism from the elite (not the royal family but their religous partners like Al-Shaikh family) and sticking to worn traditions slowed the process of development in everything and it still play a big role until this day.
We have a high standard of living but there is nothing more to it. We still don't have any political participation and we don't have alot of room for innovation inside the country.
There's alot of room for investment here but it just doesn't happen because the ultra'conservatives always complicate things.
If this wealth was in the hands of a more progressive then it would've been something else in a good way of course.
9/11 was wake up call for the government to stop or limit the influcnce of religous leaders.
They made alot of positive changes in the country by investing more in education. The number of public universites in the last decade increased from around 7 to more than 25 to meet the demand from the young population and improve the quality of education.
They also statrted in 2005 to give free scholarships to students to study abroad.
I'm pretty sure that all of this is going to have a positive impact in the near future.
The atmosphere in the country is generally more liberated nowadays.

2.name on thing my country has that you would like to have in your country and name one thing your country has that my country doesnt that you would like my country to have?

Even though people argue about Israel being a religious or a secular state, I would like to see in my country the secularism you have.
Unfortunatly, some people here think that secularism is anti-religion.

Since we support the Palestinians to have their own state, I hope your country also fully support the two state solution.

3.why you have so much money from oil and the best everything can buy and i never heard of a Invention \ Patent \ technological innovation came from Saudi Arabia?

Check the last part of my answer to the first question.

4.would you like to be a free men?

Can you explain more?
Do you mean to enjoy more social or political freedom?

5.if there will be a poll one day to Abolish the monarchy and the king will became prime minister just like in any country in the west, would you vote yes?

Most likely yes. I'm not a fan of monarchies and like it more when the public have more power but each country has its own unique sitiuation.
I prefer a constitutional monarchy now but I son't see it happening soon because some prominent members from the royal family are not willing to give up some of their power.

شكرا

cheers men

عفوا

:)

Just Do It
Apr 28th, 2013, 10:59 AM
Have you guys heard a story about UAE man being kicked out of SA for being too hot? His photo surfaced on the net now.
http://www.blic.rs/data/images/2013-04-26/336237_omar-borkan_f.jpg?ver=1366979949

M.S.F
Apr 28th, 2013, 11:05 AM
Great place to live...
No booze + women needs to wear burquas...

How on Earth do you even ask such a question "what do you think about Saudi Arabia" ? OF COURSE, its a Hell On Earth...

I think it's fine to ask such a simple question.
People usually look at a country from the outside with a sterotypical picture that doesn't reflect the whole country and its people.
For example, some people view Poland negatively as a very religious catholic nation but that's not the way to judge a country based on such a narrow view and being religous doesn't mean that it's bad.

Small correction: the common colth to cover the face in Saudi Arabia is niqab not burqa. There is a difference between both.
And they don't "need" to cover their faces in public. It depeneds on the family and the region\city.

Have you guys heard a story about UAE man being kicked out of SA for being too hot? His photo surfaced on the net now.
http://www.blic.rs/data/images/2013-04-26/336237_omar-borkan_f.jpg?ver=1366979949

Yeah :lol:
I don't know what to say if it's true but I will not be surprised if it did happen, nothing surprise me anymore :lol:

M.S.F
Apr 28th, 2013, 12:06 PM
Don't know why the post is deleted but I replied anyway.

Is alcoholic prohibition in SA a fact, or also negative stereotype ?

As for dressing:

BY wikipedia:

Among non-mahram men, women must cover the parts of the body that are awrah (not meant to be exposed). In much of Islam, a women's face is not considered awrah. In Saudi Arabia and some other Arab states, all of the body is considered awrah except the hands and eyes. Accordingly, most women are expected wear the hijab (head covering), a full black cloak called an abaya, and a face-veil called niqab.

Explain that ?

Honestly, I'd really prefer North Korea over SA. At least I could get drunk there..

Yes it's a fact. For you it's a big problem because you are used to drink but in our culture we never even think about it. At least the weather is hot here and you don't feel the need to drink vodka :lol:

As for dressing, religious authorities in Saudi Arabia mostly follow the Hanbali school of religious law which is very strict and conservative compared to the other Sunni schools (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi) and it's only found in Saudi Arabia at the moment. And one of the differences between the Hanabil schools and the other schools, it's that it consider a woman face to be awrah, thus she have to cover it from non-mahrams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahram) but other schools don't have the same rule.
This school is popular in Central Arabia while other regions in Arabia follow other schools and there are also followers of other sects like Shias.
Because of this, you will find differences between every region with the way women dress and the culture in general. For example, in the western region alot of people follow the Shafi and Maliki shools which allow women to show thier faces so you will see more women in a city in the western region like Jeedah showing their face in public than a city in the central region like Riyadh.
In the Consultative Assembly of Saudi Arabia (known as Shura Council) there are 30 women and not all of them cover thier faces

http://elgornalimages.elgornal.net/images/news/thumb/2013/4/13/635014352833593734_L_000_nic6195009.jpg

http://s.alriyadh.com/2013/03/16/img/742099726339.jpg

http://www.alyaum.com/News/files/2012/wdddddddddddw_667312802.jpg

The real question about North Korea if they allow alcohol is how much they will allow you to drink? a bottle every week? :lol:

DemWilliamsGulls
Apr 28th, 2013, 02:27 PM
I just wish the Saudi Arabia and the Middle east could get along with the US.....

*JR*
Apr 28th, 2013, 03:30 PM
What the West mainly thinks about them:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BYX14125JUQ/SNsGIZQAeGI/AAAAAAAAGNk/iUyopcfxlsc/s400/Fiore_Drill_Baby_Drill.jpg

Number19
Apr 28th, 2013, 07:30 PM
I just wish the Saudi Arabia and the Middle east could get along with the US.....

Isn't SA "allies" w/USA?

Thiudans
Apr 28th, 2013, 08:12 PM
I just wish the Saudi Arabia and the Middle east could get along with the US.....

:confused:
Saudi Arabi is a trusted client. It falls in line, so its human rights abuses are overlooked. It's the US's ally.

M.S.F
Apr 29th, 2013, 12:57 PM
ccnwzScp6bM

:lol: