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View Full Version : Is Sharapova's shoulder still an issue or she only sucks, and has passed her peak???


debby
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:29 PM
According to some Mashastans (chÁck, madmax, and others), Maria's shoulder is not an issue "resolved" as it sill bothers her to serve, for instance in Wimbledon final.

What do you think? :confused:

I will give you some statistics (from the most recent Slam and her favourite/best one) and pros/cons :

Statistics :
In Wimbledon :
Masha hit 24 aces, she is at #4 (but she played 7 matchs so ~3.43 aces per match... not a lot for a former great server :( ). Lisicki is first, then Serena and Kvitty-GOAT (who hit 36 aces, it may have been an important factor in that final).

BUT !!!!! Masha is leading the Doublefaults rankings :sobbing: with 38 dfs :ouch: it means ~5.43 per match, so a differential of -2... Kinda bad especially that we know she hit some dfs on big points.

Now let's see the serve speed...She is even with the likes of Pironkova, Gajdosova, Rybarikova, Kvitty-GOAT (even Ivanovic is ahead them :sobbing: but it means Baby Anci is clueless even at serve, if she didn't score a single point on her serve in that tie-break) with 113 mph (181 km/h, not bad at all :yeah: ).

On her first serve : 71% of first point won (on Wimbledon overall, of course) for Maria !!! (weird to notice that Patricia Mayr is leading with 90% !!! but who cares, she only played a match)
About her second serve (points won) : she is not even in the top 20 (while Kvitty-GOAT is #6, must be the most deciding factor in the Wimbledon final), so less than 54%.

Now let's study her ROS game...

She won 115 first serve return points in 7 matchs, she is #2, behind Kvitova (128 points). She won 103 points off serve return (only behind Marion who won 114 points :worship: ).
She won 33 break points, even with Kvitty-GOAT.

So, she is better on ROS than on serve. No shit Sherlock. But even her serve is good, I should remind you she didn't lose a single set till the final where she lost in straights. So she was not THAT bad. Or maybe her opponents (Chakvetadze, Robson, Zakopalova, Peng, Cibulkova-GRASS GOAT, Lisicki) were really bad. Feel free to choose.

Pros/cons :

She was injured from summer 2008 till clay season 2009 (she played doubles in Indian Wells, with Vesnina, right? they both lost in 1R if I am not wrong). She played a good season, reaching quarters of RG, her so-called worst Slam. How to explain this? Was she mentally fresh to fight every match and her own serve ? Afterwards, she got worse (2nd round exit in Wimbly 09, 3r at the USO, 1r at the AO where she hit like 20 dfs and 70 ues :sobbing: , 3r in RG but she played RG-GOAT Juju Heng, 4r in Wimbly and USO '10...).

But it seems she woke up this year : 4r in the AO (Fourthroundpova :D ), 1/2 in RG (Semipova back !), final in Wimbledon....

Pros :
- The kind of injury she got was very severe, a lot of athletes were never the same after that shoulder injury (I don't remember his name, but a baseball player had that injury, ask Lizchris, she talked about him). She had to change her whole serve-and-ROS game, knowing that Greatpova was a serve monster (summer-fall 2006 :ouch: She was scaring), who built her whole game around her serve. If her serve collapses, her game collapses as well.

- She is still afraid to get injured again, so she is safer with her shoulder so at the serve. Therefore, she can't serve like before, because she is too afraid.

- She has tried to have a plan B, especially on second serve. I remember that one day, she shortened her serve motion, but she hit as much dfs as she used to with her old serve motion.

Cons :

- It was three years ago it happened. Enough time to find a plan B.

- It is not because of her injury, that's because she can't cope well with outdoors conditions : the wind, the sun...

- She has a much better ROS game, so it should compensate the lack of serve points won.
And she should change her second serve, because she doesn't bring variations nor different speed on second serve.

- It is a mental issue, she is not as a fighter as she was before, so she loses more matchs.

- You are a Williams fans (bandabou, Butterfrena, do you hear me?) or Caralenko, you are tired to hear Mashastans' excuses, and you think she has passed her peak and will never win a Slam again.

:confused: Hope it helps.

Personally, I think she is too stubborn with her second serve, she keeps hitting it like it is a first serve. Has she taken serve classes with Dementieva? But she is doing good, she can win another Slam, she needs to stop spraying UEs all over the court if her serve is AWOL, she needs to have the confidence to keep in mind that her serve sucks but she can control her game. It seems she lacks of confidence. When she is confident, she can play great, no hitting DFs, and stuff... I have noticed that most of her DFs happened in tight matchs.

http://image2.sina.com.cn/ty/t/p/2006-01-08/U1612P6T12D1979620F44DT20060108103816.jpg

Maria is thankful you read the whole thread. :angel::cool:

Soliloque
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:30 PM
Oh debby. There was a thread about that less than a week ago.

debby
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:32 PM
Oh debby. There was a thread about that less than a week ago.

I didn't read any of this. :angel: But did they talk about WS and Caralenko? I bet they didn't.
:secret: and if you want, I can start a poll about GOATsters :secret:

Soliloque
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:35 PM
I didn't read any of this. :angel: But did they talk about WS and Caralenko? I bet they didn't.
:secret: and if you want, I can start a poll about GOATsters :secret:

No idea what they talked about. But the thread had the same title.
And I don't want any poll about Kim, she's losing them anyway, most people here think she's the devil now.

debby
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:39 PM
No idea what they talked about. But the thread had the same title.
And I don't want any poll about Kim, she's losing them anyway, most people here think she's the devil now.

Oh thanks, I will edit it. :angel:
Well, Jesustine will come back on earth to save us all from the devil.
Sharapova is the Spawn of Satan.

Lachy
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:41 PM
Ok I'll bite :p No but seriously I know we have an array of expert panelists here on TF that feel as though they can almost see through the eyes of players but I don't think anyone can sit and type if whether or not her shoulder surgery is an issue because the only person in the world that truly knows the answer is Maria herself.

RenaSlam.
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:42 PM
Everything else in Maria's game is coming together except the serve. If she doesn't figure out the serve she'll never win another slam.

debby
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:42 PM
Ok I'll bite :p No but seriously I know we have an array of expert panelists here on TF that feel as though they can almost see through the eyes of players but I don't think anyone can sit and type if whether or not her shoulder surgery is an issue because the only person in the world that truly knows the answer is Maria herself.

Well, Maria doesn't mention it anymore :shrug:

debby
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:45 PM
Everything else in Maria's game is coming together except the serve. If she doesn't figure out the serve she'll never win another slam.

She reached a Slam final...
Dementieva, with her shitty serve, won Olympics Games that value a Slam, according to Miffedmax and Elena herself....
Henin had a shitty serve, even in her first career, but managed to win a bunch of titles including seven Slams.

Methinks she should be clutch on big points. Here is the point. How many GPs did she miss against Kvitova in the second set ?

Lachy
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:46 PM
Well, Maria doesn't mention it anymore :shrug:

I don't think she is the sort of person that feels the need to make excuses for herself :shrug:

ElusiveChanteuse
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:18 PM
was her serve a problem during the early rounds? didn't hear anything about her serving poorly. i guess she just overthinks her serve at times, losing focus, hence all the 'poor serving' issues.

bandabou
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:24 PM
Debby! Moi a hater? :awww:;)

Maria's problem is that the game has become so big right now that you NEED to be able of winning free points off your serve. in the final, Maria was on the backfoot so often..because Petra was ALL over her serve. Too much pressure for her own ground game that way.

That's Masha's biggest weakness right now.

slamchamp
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:29 PM
Maria has said she has trouble to put spin on her second serves sometimes, maybe in important matches her shoulder gets tight

18majors
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:41 PM
Her shoulder probably will never fully recover. She needs to work around it.

VishaalMaria
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:51 PM
Debby! Moi a hater? :awww:;)

Maria's problem is that the game has become so big right now that you NEED to be able of winning free points off your serve. in the final, Maria was on the backfoot so often..because Petra was ALL over her serve. Too much pressure for her own ground game that way.

That's Masha's biggest weakness right now.


Her serve is a weakness because it gives the opponent free points. That first set was so key in the Wimbledon final, yet Maria hit two DF's to hand the deciding break.

And if I remember correctly, she it a couple in her service game after she broke to allow Petra to get back on even terms in the second.

I honestly believe Maria can get the serve in and start the point on neutral but mentally she doesn't want to accept that her serve will never be a weapon. I don't know what she's thinking? Too keep going for it and all of a sudden it'll click forever in her tennis career?

madmax
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:52 PM
debby back to her trolling ways as usual...had Maria played well in that Wimby final the excuses would be reversed and the opponent would be a choker and mental midget then.:facepalm: I understand that's it's hard to give any credit to Pova for rabid haters, so instead they are repeating rehashed crap about "mental issues" and broken shoulder. In reality she reached a final mainly thanks to her ground game, overwhelming every opponent along the way. Not even her serving issues were a problem then, as her groundies were just too big to handle. One bad match in the final, where nothing was working for her, doesn't diminish 6 matches before...

chuvack
Jul 6th, 2011, 02:00 PM
debby back to her trolling ways as usual...had Maria played well in that Wimby final the excuses would be reversed and the opponent would be a choker and mental midget then.:facepalm: I understand that's it's hard to give any credit to Pova for rabid haters, so instead they are repeating rehashed crap about "mental issues" and broken shoulder. In reality she reached a final mainly thanks to her ground game, overwhelming every opponent along the way. Not even her serving issues were a problem then, as her groundies were just too big to handle. One bad match in the final, where nothing was working for her, doesn't diminish 6 matches before...


It wasn't just "one bad match" in the final. For the 1st time in the tourney, Shazza came up against a player who was clearly playing better tennis than she was, forcing her out of the comfort zone. Credit to Masha for fighting and making the match competetive, because it could easily have been a 61 61 thrashing. She is still fighting are hard as ever, and that's important.

Alejandrawrrr
Jul 6th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Shoulder? No. Serve? Yes.

Lord Choc Ice
Jul 6th, 2011, 02:17 PM
Masha's had great results since IW like:

IW SF
Miami F
Rome W
RG SF
W F

She's doing the business. :hearts: I had totally written her off after the AO loss to Petko. Glad she's proving me wrong.

I don't think her shoulder's a problem now, it's all mental. I hope she works it out. :scared:

madmax
Jul 6th, 2011, 02:18 PM
It wasn't just "one bad match" in the final. For the 1st time in the tourney, Shazza came up against a player who was clearly playing better tennis than she was, forcing her out of the comfort zone. Credit to Masha for fighting and making the match competetive, because it could easily have been a 61 61 thrashing. She is still fighting are hard as ever, and that's important.

if you think that Maria played just as well as she did against Cibulkova and Lisicki, then further discussion is not productive here...

Apoleb
Jul 6th, 2011, 02:42 PM
Her forehand is pretty mediocre too. She can't deal with depth or hard hit ball on it, as it is badly timed. Her only shot worth something is the backhand cross-court. Even the backhand DTL seems like a mess.

She only sucks and has passed her peak.

Vlover
Jul 6th, 2011, 02:49 PM
Isn't it the same shoulder she used to win several matches over the past 3yrs?:confused: She has been favored to win the FO, Wimbledon and most likely the USO with the same shoulder therefore why is it her shoulder is an issue only when she loses?:rolleyes: If Pova had won I'm sure her shoulder would have been fine and she would be lauded to be back to "greatness":devil:

All players who have had a serious injury have never recovered 100% but have had to make adjustments to their games to compensate for any weakness that may arise. To me Pova has been fortunate at the majors that she didn't meet stronger players before the FO semis and Wimbledon F. If Lisicky had the self belief that Petra had she could have won that match. She is back to her usual semis and finals every 2yrs as she did pre-injury anyway. Its not like she dominated the WTA before her shoulder problems and she never will therefore if that is the crutch the Pova fans need to console themselves then go ahead but no one else is buying it.:tape:

debby
Jul 6th, 2011, 02:52 PM
debby back to her trolling ways as usual...had Maria played well in that Wimby final the excuses would be reversed and the opponent would be a choker and mental midget then.:facepalm: I understand that's it's hard to give any credit to Pova for rabid haters, so instead they are repeating rehashed crap about "mental issues" and broken shoulder. In reality she reached a final mainly thanks to her ground game, overwhelming every opponent along the way. Not even her serving issues were a problem then, as her groundies were just too big to handle. One bad match in the final, where nothing was working for her, doesn't diminish 6 matches before...

Thank you for proving my point (I mentioned you in the OP). :)

Marlene
Jul 6th, 2011, 03:53 PM
[...]
Masha hit 24 aces, she is at #4 (but she played 7 matchs so ~3.43 aces per match... not a lot for a former great server :( ). Lisicki is first, then Serena and Kvitty-GOAT (who hit 36 aces, it may have been an important factor in that final).[...]

Kvitova hit exactly one ace in the final, on match point - how's that "an important factor" in that final?!


Anyway, about the shoulder; I don't think shoulder 2.0 is ever going to be 100% as good as the first. On good days maybe it'll be 90% good, and during a good week it'll be 90% good 60% of the time or 80% good 80% of the time. But even though shoulder 2.0 has improved and become much more consistent over the past year, it still seems to get tired more easily. If the match goes to a 3rd set, the shoulder is often down to 60% good.

Stonerpova
Jul 6th, 2011, 04:12 PM
Her shoulder's fine now. Maria can attest to that. But all of the serving issues brought in by the shoulder problem obviously still remain. Her serve will probably never be what it once was, but it doesn't really need to be. I still think she'll win another major or two with her current game (granted she plays someone less good than Kvitova in the final), but if she can find some stability on the serve she'd take some pressure off herself and probably win even more. One thing's for sure: she'll never stop working on it, and she'll never stop being hyperaggressive on her second serve. If she can add some top spin a la Serena she'd serve herself well (pun kind of intended).

Craig.
Jul 6th, 2011, 04:23 PM
Her shoulder's fine. Her serving problems due to her shoulder injury are still around today. Next.

Slutiana
Jul 6th, 2011, 04:27 PM
The shoulder is fine - it's all mental. If you look at most of her matches since Indian Wells, it's only the big SFs and Finals where the DFs come, or if she is put under pressure on her serve by good returners.

As I said in another thread, she'll probably never be the player she once was, but she doesn't need to be in this era. Almost every other part of her game is back to a respectable level, it's just the serve that is the final hurdle in Martha's recovery. It's just that the serve happens to be the toughest hurdle of them all.


She reached a Slam final...
Dementieva, with her shitty serve, won Olympics Games that value a Slam, according to Miffedmax and Elena herself....
Henin had a shitty serve, even in her first career, but managed to win a bunch of titles including seven Slams.

Methinks she should be clutch on big points. Here is the point. How many GPs did she miss against Kvitova in the second set ?
They had their great athleticism and movement to fall back on. Maria putting herself on the front foot with strong serves is key to her game.

Her forehand is pretty mediocre too. She can't deal with depth or hard hit ball on it, as it is badly timed. Her only shot worth something is the backhand cross-court. Even the backhand DTL seems like a mess.

She only sucks and has passed her peak.
Boo.

The timing on her forehand has improved a lot. She rarely ever takes it so late that she is forced to do the hideous lasso thing these days, and The Hog is clearly working on that. During this stretch of non-embarrassing form, the forehand has mostly held up very well, and it's usually when her serve goes that the FH follows suit.

And I don't think her BHDTL is a mess, but she didn't trust herself enough to go for it in key moments. And you can't beat Kvitova on grass by playing the majority of your shots crosscourt and giving her space to hit running FHs and BHs, snatching your wig in the process.

Sammo
Jul 6th, 2011, 05:01 PM
She just sucks

spartanfan
Jul 6th, 2011, 05:12 PM
Well her serve hasn't been the same since she's been back the past two years. She is hitting 2-3 times as many DF now than she was hitting pre-surgery. It's hard not to seperate the two. I don't think that Sharapova believes that her shoulder will be able to hold up long term. Or heck even for a whole GS tournament. She really did look like the weaker player out there on Saturday-a little frazled like Nadal in his final to be truthful. I just didn't sense the believe from either of them that they could win. If you look at both Kvitova and Sharapova's results from this year along, you can't be suprised about who won the final. Sure Sharapova has put up some better results than she had over the past two years, but look at the quality of players she's beaten to get those results. If THIS Sharapova with this game and serve was playing in 2004-2008, she would not have won any GS titles and probably less than a quarter of the titles that she did win. My guess is that she is still mentaly worried about reaggrevating or reinjuring her shoulder and that worry has crept into all parts of her game.

Mistress of Evil
Jul 6th, 2011, 05:19 PM
Sharapova will never be the player, she once was. :shrug: Her shoulder is fine now, she has struggled the last couple of years but its seems okay now. In her post-surgery career Masha is and will be a bridesmaid, nothing more :awww: probably her second career will resemble Lenochka's, after all Masha is now the HBIC of the LOB :D

doooma6816
Jul 6th, 2011, 05:21 PM
She said it's not natural for her anymore...she doesn't feel it very well...so I think serve will be always the problem.
Why didn't she make many DFs in earlier rounds and did many in later stages? Simple...the opponents didn't return that well as Petra or Sabine...and you know, when she feels pressure then she wants to make big 2nd serve...or loses her concentration, she's not confident then too.
The positive thing is now that her poor serving doesnt affect her ground game very much...In final to beat Kvitty she needed good serving, because Petra was amazing...you know, she proved that her ground game wasn't that bad, she broke Petra many times...she just couldn't hold...even when she wasn't making DF, her serve was too weak, so Petra from the beginning of the point took advatage.

Her groundstrokes are good now, she can even improve on that things to play at least on the level of Rome. That's why she made a lot deep runs at tournaments this year, but she always failed in SF or F, opponents became tougher so she couldn't win only with her groundgame. I'm afraid that bad serve can be the reason why she won't win any Slam in the future, but of course I hope she'll win much more.

GrafMariaPetraK
Jul 6th, 2011, 05:35 PM
Maria shoulder does still affect her serve IMO but also she does not hit ground strokes as hard and consistently as she used to, maybe her forhand is still powerful has before and her crosscourt backhand but her down the line backhand has so many errors when she tries to go for it,I think Hogstedt will help recover Maria of the form she once had before her shoulder injury:fiery: so i think Maria is def heading in the right direction:)

Volcana
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:28 PM
Her shoulder will literally never be the same again. That's rotator cuff surgery for you. But that doesn't mean anything's wrong it, or that it hurts. It just works a little differently. She could wind up being a better server, eventually. It's all in how she adapts to the physical changes, a process that takes years.

AcesHigh
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:34 PM
Boo.

The timing on her forehand has improved a lot. She rarely ever takes it so late that she is forced to do the hideous lasso thing these days, and The Hog is clearly working on that. During this stretch of non-embarrassing form, the forehand has mostly held up very well, and it's usually when her serve goes that the FH follows suit.

And I don't think her BHDTL is a mess, but she didn't trust herself enough to go for it in key moments. And you can't beat Kvitova on grass by playing the majority of your shots crosscourt and giving her space to hit running FHs and BHs, snatching your wig in the process.

Agreed here. She's definitely working very hard on her ground game IMHO.

As for the serve.. it's THE most mental shot in the tennis player's repertoire. Sharapova's serving woes are mental. Will she return to her former form? No...but as she gets used to playing in big matches again, that serve will become more reliable. She just needs to take a bit off the pace IMO and put some more action on it.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:37 PM
Her shoulder will literally never be the same again. That's rotator cuff surgery for you. But that doesn't mean anything's wrong it, or that it hurts. It just works a little differently. She could wind up being a better server, eventually. It's all in how she adapts to the physical changes, a process that takes years.

This. It's not the shoulder ITSELF that's hurting, but it's the fact that her shoulder was basically reconstructed less than 3 years ago. She had been using her previous service motion since she was about 10 years old, and so it was instinct to her... then, after her surgery, because she basically lost all muscle memory in her shoulder, she had to completely remodel her serve, because she lost all feeling and instinct on it. And that's why it's so prone to breaking down in pressure matches - purely because it's not second-nature, and that she has to consciously think about it more than any other part of her game.

As Lindsay Davenport has said, it's remarkable she's done as well as she has done, because no-one else who had shoulder surgery has ever come anywhere near close as Maria to winning Slams again... the closest in the men's game is probably Tommy Haas.

justineheninfan
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:41 PM
She will never return to her 04-06 or 07 WTA Championships/08 Australian Open level again IMO. However with the womens field not containing the great players that period did she can still win more slams. It is just that it looks like she will never have a period of dominance. The strength of the field prevented it during her prime, and her injuries and the loss of momentum and timing from them will prevent it now when it otherwise might well have happened.

nelsondan
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:47 PM
There are not five women in the world who make as much money as Maria for looking pretty.

There were 2 who did better than her on her so-called worst service for playing tennis, and one who finished ahead of her at wimbledon. I would respectfully suggest that you postpone her career funeral until after someone eliminates her in new York.

LoLex
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:54 PM
During the match against Lisicki, I noticed she was not comfortable with her shoulder. Looked like she felt a little pain in the end of the match.

bandabou
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:23 PM
Her serve is a weakness because it gives the opponent free points. That first set was so key in the Wimbledon final, yet Maria hit two DF's to hand the deciding break.

And if I remember correctly, she it a couple in her service game after she broke to allow Petra to get back on even terms in the second.

I honestly believe Maria can get the serve in and start the point on neutral but mentally she doesn't want to accept that her serve will never be a weapon. I don't know what she's thinking? Too keep going for it and all of a sudden it'll click forever in her tennis career?

Uhum...and it's gonna be interesting watching how and if Masha adapts to this reallty. Serena adapted to her declining speed and movement, became more allround. Masha'll have to do the same..accept that the super serve is gone and imptove her other strengths even more.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 6th, 2011, 10:39 PM
Agreed here. She's definitely working very hard on her ground game IMHO.

As for the serve.. it's THE most mental shot in the tennis player's repertoire. Sharapova's serving woes are mental. Will she return to her former form? No...but as she gets used to playing in big matches again, that serve will become more reliable. She just needs to take a bit off the pace IMO and put some more action on it.


commentators said that it was suggested to Maria that she take something off the serve instead of just going for it all the time...they said her response was along the lines that just putting it in doesn't win or something like that...

no amount of people who think or tell her that will make her do that however...she has to be the one to see the benefits of taking something off and working with placement over pace...makes no sense dfing at crucial moments because she thinks going for it will win it...dfing loses the game, set match much quicker than putting it in and working the point...at least you've got a chance then

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 6th, 2011, 10:54 PM
Uhum...and it's gonna be interesting watching how and if Masha adapts to this reallty. Serena adapted to her declining speed and movement, became more allround. Masha'll have to do the same..accept that the super serve is gone and imptove her other strengths even more.

i should put this on my other post because it outlines the double edged sword for maria...

serena was already REALLY quick around the court...she looks slower now IN COMPARISON to what she used to be like, but she's still really good in the movement department (once it's a slam :oh: )...

maria otoh, while being deceptively quick (due in part to her wing span - couple steps and a long arm out and she's there), she's not the athlete like a serena, venus, jj (Caro - for tutu :kiss: )where she can stand back and soak up pressure and wait to turn it into offence....that's not how she wins...don't get me wrong, she does it well at points during matches...but when she's the one doing the defending for the majority of the match, like against petra, she usually comes out on the losing end...it's why she feels that she HAS to go for her serve...

madmax keeps pointing out how well she played against domi, but honestly, on grass she has nothing to hurt maria with...maria knew the return couldn't hurt, and even so, domi had nothing on serve so she could easily break...she could go for it then without much pressure...but against big returners/servers, or consistent enough players, she tends to feel it more, go for more...she either makes it, or as of recently, misses it...


it stands to be seen how she will overcome her problems.

Solitaire
Jul 6th, 2011, 11:30 PM
It's totally mental on her part. Maria's developed the yipes which comes out when she's playing someone who can actually threaten her serve.

vixter
Jul 6th, 2011, 11:36 PM
The shoulder is not still an issue but it did once make her drop from her peak and suck

She's the same player just not quite as high level as before,
but can probably push herself higher again

Graftard
Jul 7th, 2011, 01:25 AM
Sharapova's game is still fine. She is just getting outclassed by stronger, better generation. In this case Kvitova. She can serve better, has faster groundies, no weaknesses on FH/BH, better variety, younger, more hungry for titles etc. The game has passed Maria by, it is not her fault, it's just the way it is.

bandabou
Jul 7th, 2011, 07:55 AM
i should put this on my other post because it outlines the double edged sword for maria...

serena was already REALLY quick around the court...she looks slower now IN COMPARISON to what she used to be like, but she's still really good in the movement department (once it's a slam :oh: )...

maria otoh, while being deceptively quick (due in part to her wing span - couple steps and a long arm out and she's there), she's not the athlete like a serena, venus, jj (Caro - for tutu :kiss: )where she can stand back and soak up pressure and wait to turn it into offence....that's not how she wins...don't get me wrong, she does it well at points during matches...but when she's the one doing the defending for the majority of the match, like against petra, she usually comes out on the losing end...it's why she feels that she HAS to go for her serve...

madmax keeps pointing out how well she played against domi, but honestly, on grass she has nothing to hurt maria with...maria knew the return couldn't hurt, and even so, domi had nothing on serve so she could easily break...she could go for it then without much pressure...but against big returners/servers, or consistent enough players, she tends to feel it more, go for more...she either makes it, or as of recently, misses it...


it stands to be seen how she will overcome her problems.

Good thoughts! I agree with you...Masha NEEDS to start points on top, otherwise she ain't gonna win much matches. She can't beat you by being defensive..not her strength. That's why I think it's better for her to go for placement, instead of sheer pace on the serve. What she seems to insisting to do.