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chuvack
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:43 AM
I think Wozniacki is in a lot more trouble than people realize. Her brand has been getting pummelled all through 2011 and she is in now danger of not being taken seriously. If you want to be a star, you have to play like a star when the world is watching. The Woz needs to reach the final of the USO to salvage any credibility. Its obvious that her confidence has been destroyed, and her game just looks ordinary Top 20, not #1.

Beat
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:44 AM
great, original idea for a thread - exactly what wev've been missing :yeah:

ElusiveChanteuse
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:45 AM
we'll see in 2 months time. no point discussing since you'll either embarrass yourself or her.:shrug:

atennisfanid
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:26 AM
Haven't seen a thread like this in ages. original!

:dance:

bandabou
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:30 AM
Now Caro's part of the season arrives. Realistically speaking with her game, U.S. open and Oz open are the only majors where she's a REAL contender. Kvitova struck first...gonna be interesting how Caroline responds.

chuvack
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:56 AM
Haven't seen a thread like this in ages. original!

:dance:


I bet your mother needed to slap you across the breakfast table a few times when you were a kid.

The only other thread I saw was some moron stating that the Woz is the obvious USO winner, a not very useful thread title in my opinion.

C. Drone
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:14 AM
worst case if she loses to a "rival" and keeps the #1 ranking.

if she loses early, probably she'll lose the #1 spot, which wouldn't be that bad for her. A wake up call.

chuvack
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:23 AM
worst case if she loses to a "rival" and keeps the #1 ranking.

if she loses early, probably she'll lose the #1 spot, which wouldn't be that bad for her. A wake up call.


Can't she lose the #1 ranking before the USO? This is worse than I thought.

Beat
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:26 AM
The only other thread I saw [...]

:spit: :haha:

C. Drone
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:28 AM
Can't she lose the #1 ranking before the USO? This is worse than I thought.

no way she loses #1 before Beijing, i was just thinking a bit ahead. :lol:

BartoLiNa
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:30 AM
She has more of a shot at the Australian Open than she does at the US Open imo.

Svetlana)))
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:50 AM
I actually think she will lose early this year.

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 10:06 AM
No matter what happens, after the USO she's going to be fighting for YE #1 for the 2nd straight year.

It can never be: win the USO or bust, because she's still early in her career.
Of course she wants to win that. So does Serena, Kim, Maria.. everybody with a chance wants to win it.

Maria rocks
Jul 6th, 2011, 10:12 AM
I think she has a good chance at the US this year. She always looks comfortable on hard courts. I would think she would at least get to the Quarters.

Pops Maellard
Jul 6th, 2011, 10:43 AM
She sure as hell won't win it, but she rarely sucks there (it seems tougher for her to get overpowered at the USO for some reason), and the court seems to help her shots somewhat.

She'll probably lose in the QF or something.

Daniel
Jul 6th, 2011, 10:58 AM
She got a good chance of winning the US Open

valac222
Jul 6th, 2011, 11:27 AM
If she wins USO she will be a strong brand, if she will not she will be still marketable (outside of the real tennis community, Turkish Airlines etc.). I think she has to do something big before the end of 2012 or she loses market credibility.

RenaSlam.
Jul 6th, 2011, 11:28 AM
She'll lose in the 4R at the Open. You heard it here first.

Steven.
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:33 PM
can someone explain to me why Wozniacki's game has so much more on decoturf?

chuvack
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:37 PM
can someone explain to me why Wozniacki's game has so much more on decoturf?


It gets her forehand through the court faster, and I also think the Woz just moves better on hardcourt, the same way some other players just move better on clay.

18majors
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:40 PM
Bust.

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 12:57 PM
Player's Forum.

If it applies to Serena, it applies to Wozniacki.

pwayne
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:01 PM
Bust for 2011.

pwayne
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:02 PM
If she wins USO she will be a strong brand, if she will not she will be still marketable (outside of the real tennis community, Turkish Airlines etc.). I think she has to do something big before the end of 2012 or she loses market credibility.

Agreed

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:03 PM
can someone explain to me why Wozniacki's game has so much more on decoturf?I watched her close on clay this year, and I dont know. I expected a deep run in Paris. That loss to Dani, who she had never lost a set to, I think was her weakest effort all year.

madmax
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:04 PM
why do irrelevant players like Push have so much attention on this board?:unsure:
Do your job mods and drag this thing to Push forum

chuvack
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:09 PM
I watched her close on clay this year, and I dont know. I expected a deep run in Paris. That loss to Dani, who she had never lost a set to, I think was her weakest effort all year.


I changed my stance on the Woz after that match. Prior to that I thought she was only in a mild slump. But when you're the world #1 and you get thrashed by Hantuchova on clay, it shows that something is really wrong.

WozLolz
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:17 PM
why do irrelevant players like Push have so much attention on this board?:unsure:
Do your job mods and drag this thing to Push forum

Lolz. A more relevant question would be this: Why are half your posts related to Caroline? :kiss: #obsessed

Henpova
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:18 PM
She won't lose any sponsors but if she dose not win the USO this year and stays number one at the end of the season then she will have more people dogging her and the WTA. I am sure she will have a good run at the USO and can even win it. Her game works best on hard courts. I have to say her game is boring to watch but it is a lot better then most of you guys want to give her credit for.

Valanga
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:22 PM
I hope players start figuring her game out

Lachy
Jul 6th, 2011, 01:37 PM
I hope players start figuring her game out

I don't think there is a player in the world that hasn't...it's just a matter of them executing though :spit:

theFutureisNow
Jul 6th, 2011, 02:49 PM
I hope players start figuring her game out

I think they have started to.

In the past players would attack her way too much, which resulted in lots of dumb errors.
It seems like they have figured out now that it is better to be patient, since she is unlikely to hit a solid winner against you while you wait for your shot.

Also, she has exceptional anticipation. It is probably better to use more random placement against her than hit it to the "correct" spot.

The Kaz
Jul 6th, 2011, 02:55 PM
This has officially became the PUSHFORUM.com :dance:

:o:o:o:o:o

Novichok
Jul 6th, 2011, 03:00 PM
She lost 6-2 6-0 to Kvitova last year and then won the USO Series. She's not going anywhere.

chuvack
Jul 6th, 2011, 03:05 PM
She sure as hell won't win it, but she rarely sucks there (it seems tougher for her to get overpowered at the USO for some reason), and the court seems to help her shots somewhat.

She'll probably lose in the QF or something.


Quarterfinal isn't going to be good enough. When you are the face of the WTA and you lose 3R, 4R and QF in the 3 biggest events of the year, you might as well be Soriana Cirstea. Those results are not acceptable for a star player.

Steven.
Jul 6th, 2011, 03:05 PM
It gets her forehand through the court faster, and I also think the Woz just moves better on hardcourt, the same way some other players just move better on clay.

This actually makes sense, because now that I think about it. Cheers.

Stonerpova
Jul 6th, 2011, 03:22 PM
She lost 6-2 6-0 to Kvitova last year and then won the USO Series. She's not going anywhere.

She didn't win the US Open though. Which is the subject of this thread.

Novichok
Jul 6th, 2011, 03:25 PM
She didn't win the US Open though. Which is the subject of this thread.

The crux of the OP's argument is that devastating slam losses affect Caroline negatively and that she won't be taken seriously. Caroline was absolutely destroyed by Petra last year but she bounced back.

homogenius
Jul 6th, 2011, 03:27 PM
Her game is less effective this year.Her form at the start of the year was okish but still she lost to vera in Doha and JJ should have win at least 2 out of their 3 meetings (:sobbing:).She still got away with this but that went downhill during the clay season (owned by Gorges, lost to Maria lol), and her results at both FO and Wimbledon were mediocre.I know her game is way more effective on hc than clay or grass but instead of improving she actually regressed imo.It seems she is not as confident as well so we'll see how she'll react once she'll be back on her best surface but I doubt she'll repeat her last year results (as for winning the USO : she would need a good draw and to avoid some players like Kim or Serena, assuming they'll be healthy).

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 03:58 PM
I think Wozniacki is in a lot more trouble than people realize. Her brand has been getting pummelled all through 2011 and she is in now danger of not being taken seriously. If you want to be a star, you have to play like a star when the world is watching. The Woz needs to reach the final of the USO to salvage any credibility. Its obvious that her confidence has been destroyed, and her game just looks ordinary Top 20, not #1.

Ordinary top 20 and a bit of luck is all it takes to win a slam nowadays.

Reality is this:

Wimbledon performance was the same as last year.
French Open was worse than last year.
Australian Open was better than last year.

So nothing much has changed for Wozniacki, except she has a few more titles now than she had last year at this point.

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 03:59 PM
I think she's going to be good on clay. She can do all the things she does on hard court, but I dont think she's confident of her footwork on clay. I'm watching her now up 52, she looks fine on clay.
I thought winning Brussels & Charleston, final Stuttgart SF Rome was okay.
Just the Dani loss, where she didnt play smart in set 2. She had her chances then.
She has to get the right mentality for majors. You cant miss easy putaways on game points.

Hardcourt, she's comfortable and her game suits it.

BlueTrees
Jul 6th, 2011, 04:04 PM
Wozniacki is destined for failure. It's rare for a counterpuncher to be successful for a long time. Look at what happened to Hingis and Hewitt.

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 04:07 PM
what happened to Caro's shoulder? Injury?

danieln1
Jul 6th, 2011, 04:12 PM
I predict a QF exit for Caro.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 6th, 2011, 04:16 PM
She's world number in both the rankings and the race (she's been the best player of 2011) and she's 20, going on 21. She is not in any trouble, that's a hilariously idiotic thing to say. Watch Caroline show what she's made of. She'll show all of you how great she is when the US Open comes around.

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 05:05 PM
I hope players start figuring her game out

I hope the mods figure your game out.

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 05:17 PM
She's world number in both the rankings and the race (she's been the best player of 2011) and she's 20, going on 21. She is not in any trouble, that's a hilariously idiotic thing to say. Watch Caroline show what she's made of. She'll show all of you how great she is when the [enter next grand slam event] comes around.

Fixed. Do you people ever tire of repeating this?

AcesHigh
Jul 6th, 2011, 05:18 PM
Her game is less effective this year.Her form at the start of the year was okish but still she lost to vera in Doha and JJ should have win at least 2 out of their 3 meetings (:sobbing:).She still got away with this but that went downhill during the clay season (owned by Gorges, lost to Maria lol), and her results at both FO and Wimbledon were mediocre.I know her game is way more effective on hc than clay or grass but instead of improving she actually regressed imo.It seems she is not as confident as well so we'll see how she'll react once she'll be back on her best surface but I doubt she'll repeat her last year results (as for winning the USO : she would need a good draw and to avoid some players like Kim or Serena, assuming they'll be healthy).

I think we've seen some very good form from her this year. There have been flashes of brilliance (for her standards) but you're right.. there have been more duds than usual.

She's made some stupid moves in my opinion. I'm not sure who is giving her advice. When you are making it deep into every tournament as she started doing last year, it does not help to play so many tournaments.. it actually starts to hurt your form from overplaying. I don't think her body will break down as people have been predicting but I do think it takes a toll mentally and emotionally, not to mention the constant pressure. I think Kvitova winning Wimbledon was the best thing that could have happened for her as to take some pressure away.

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 05:50 PM
what happened to Caro's shoulder? Injury?Its the serving shoulder, hopefully heals quickly, but who knows, probably needs x-rays & MRI

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:14 PM
Ordinary top 20 and a bit of luck is all it takes to win a slam nowadays.

Reality is this:

Wimbledon performance was the same as last year.
French Open was worse than last year.
Australian Open was better than last year.

So nothing much has changed for Wozniacki...

That alone should be alarming to you. While Kvitova and Azarenka are clearly going on an upwards trajectory at the biggest events, Wozniacki has stalled. Therefore, what's to say she's ever going to rise from where she is now and win a Slam, given her current flat trajectory?

Like I said in that other thread yesterday before it got closed, I still think Roland Garros is her best chance of a Slam. It's clearly the most wide-open Slam, and there's no outstanding claycourters on the horizon. I actually think that's the surface her game should translate best to anyway, if she can improve her sliding. I have a hard time seeing her beat Clijsters, Sharapova, Serena or Kvitova at their best in the later stages of the US Open, not at this stage of her career anyway...

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:21 PM
That alone should be alarming to you. While Kvitova and Azarenka are clearly going on an upwards trajectory at the biggest events, Wozniacki has stalled. Therefore, what's to say she's ever going to rise from where she is now and win a Slam, given her current flat trajectory?
I don't mind a flat trajectory at being #1 :lol:

But like I said, winning more tournaments this year than last year at the same point can only count toward upward trajectory.

It's only the slams that have been flat trajectory which is no reason to worry. All players go through ups and down.


Therefore, what's to say she's ever going to rise from where she is now and win a Slam, given her current flat trajectory?

What's to say Kvitova isn't going to plummet down the rankings like Ivanovic did after she won her first slam. Pointless conjecture. No reason to even go there.

AcesHigh
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:23 PM
I don't mind a flat trajectory at being #1 :lol:

I would mind a flat trajectory of being #1 and still not making slam finals.

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:25 PM
I would mind a flat trajectory of being #1 and still not making slam finals.

She already made slam final.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:26 PM
Like I said in that other thread yesterday before it got closed, I still think Roland Garros is her best chance of a Slam. It's clearly the most wide-open Slam, and there's no outstanding claycourters on the horizon. I actually think that's the surface her game should translate best to anyway, if she can improve her sliding. I have a hard time seeing her beat Clijsters, Sharapova, Serena or Kvitova at their best in the later stages of the US Open, not at this stage of her career anyway...

And I´ve told you she beat all of them except Clijsters on hardcourt already so your logic escapes me. You have a hard time seeing her beat Kvitova on harcourt? Really? Kvitova? Do you need me to dig up her hardcourt results?

Caro is the second best player in the world on hardcourt, falling only close to a healthy and fit Clijsters. She's the only one she really has to fear on hc, the question is whether or not Clijsters even manages to get in good shape in time for the USO.

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:28 PM
Caro is the second best player in the world on hardcourt, falling only close to a healthy and fit Clijsters. Sh

I'd say Serena too.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:30 PM
I'd say Serena too.

Maybe, these two had no match since Caro reached her prime form. But given that Serena is still chasing her normal form I don't see her as much of a threat this year, maybe next year if she stays healthy..

Matt01
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:31 PM
I think Wozniacki is in a lot more trouble than people realize.


I stopped reading at this point :yawn: :zzz:

justineheninfan
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:35 PM
Although I know clay and grass arent her best surfaces she of late is starting to fall to people she normally doesnt. I wouldnt be surprised if the field is getting onto her game. I could definitely see her dropping to #4 or #5 even in the flawed WTA rankings, if not by years end, then by early next year.

madmax
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:37 PM
And I´ve told you she beat all of them except Clijsters on hardcourt already so your logic escapes me. You have a hard time seeing her beat Kvitova on harcourt? Really? Kvitova? Do you need me to dig up her hardcourt results?

Caro is the second best player in the world on hardcourt, falling only close to a healthy and fit Clijsters. She's the only one she really has to fear on hc, the question is whether or not Clijsters even manages to get in good shape in time for the USO.

:facepalm:
So she's the second best player on hardcourts according to Push stans yet she's still losing to Vera when it matters the most in a dull fashion?:lol: Something doesn't add up here me thinks...

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:40 PM
:facepalm:
So she's the second best player on hardcourts according to Push stans yet she's still losing to Vera when it matters the most in a dull fashion?:lol: Something doesn't add up here me thinks...

Vera was the one losing finals to Caro last year.

justineheninfan
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:40 PM
I would have to agree Wozniacki was the 2nd best player on hard courts in the last year. Obviously Serena who hasnt even played a hard court tournament in the last year cant be a consideration. Only Clijsters has been better overall, even if Vera and Na each made a final.

I suspect that will change though over the next year.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:45 PM
Caro is the second best player in the world on hardcourt, falling only close to a healthy and fit Clijsters. She's the only one she really has to fear on hc, the question is whether or not Clijsters even manages to get in good shape in time for the USO.

Wozniacki's B-game beats the B-game of Clijsters, Sharapova, Kvitova, Serena on hardcourts, but I doubt her A-game beats any of those players' A-games. Again, aside from Sharapova (the US Open match where I would say it was Wozniacki's A-game against Sharapova's B-game - Maria didn't play terribly, but she certainly wasn't at her best, and Wozniacki played very well), she's not beaten any of these top players at the Slams, and they're simply a different animal to the regular WTA events.

Vera was the one losing finals to Caro last year.

But Caro lost the most important match against Zvonareva to date.

Matt01
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:45 PM
Although I know clay and grass arent her best surfaces she of late is starting to fall to people she normally doesnt. I wouldnt be surprised if the field is getting onto her game. I could definitely see her dropping to #4 or #5 even in the flawed WTA rankings, if not by years end, then by early next year.


She's #1 in the race. It's very unlikely that she's dropping to #4 or #5 anytime soon :kiss:

Matt01
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:48 PM
:facepalm:
So she's the second best player on hardcourts according to Push stans yet she's still losing to Vera when it matters the most in a dull fashion?:lol: Something doesn't add up here me thinks...


Vera lost to Caro at the YEC last year in a dull fashion, clown :facepalm:

Slutiana
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:48 PM
Maybe, these two had no match since Caro reached her prime form. But given that Serena is still chasing her normal form I don't see her as much of a threat this year, maybe next year if she stays healthy..
:help:

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:49 PM
Wozniacki's B-game beats the B-game of Clijsters, Sharapova, Kvitova, Serena on hardcourts, but I doubt her A-game beats any of those players' A-games.



That's an unverifiable assumption, it makes no sense using it in an argument. We can only go by facts and the facts show that the only player Caro is unlikely (to use your own words) to beat on hardcourt is Clijsters, she has beaten all other players you listed on hardcourt before with the exception of Serena which is a no-contest as there simply haven't been any recent matches to judge.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:50 PM
:help:

So you disagree that Serena hasn't found her form yet? Okay, if her Wimbledon performance was all she can do then that means she won't be much of a threat to Caro either. Disagreeing with my point dosen't really work in your favor here ;)

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:50 PM
I would have to agree Wozniacki was the 2nd best player on hard courts in the last year. Obviously Serena who hasnt even played a hard court tournament in the last year cant be a consideration. Only Clijsters has been better overall, even if Vera and Na each made a final.

I suspect that will change though over the next year.

My feeling though is that, while Wozniacki might prove to be more consistent on hardcourts, she's always going to have to run into an elite player at their best in the semis or final in Australia or New York, and I doubt her best would be good enough to get it done against them on hard. OTOH, on clay, NO-ONE plays at an exceptional level, meaning Wozniacki would have a better chance of going all the way at RG imo.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:51 PM
That's an unverifiable assumption, it makes no sense using it in an argument. We can only go by facts and the facts show that the only player Caro is unlikely (to use your own words) to beat on hardcourt is Clijsters, she has beaten all other players you listed on hardcourt before ....

Not in Slams.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:53 PM
Not in Slams.

Okay, I give up. If you really think that makes much a difference despite the fact that Caro has already reached the USO final and SF last year then I can't help you.

Slutiana
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:54 PM
So you disagree that Serena hasn't found her form yet? Okay, if her Wimbledon performance was all she can do then that means she won't be much of a threat to Caro either. Disagreeing with my point dosen't really work in your favor here ;)
No, she hasn't found her form yet. But that doesn't mean she can just be written off for the rest of the year year based on two tournaments with about 28 days of hitting after a year layoff. :lol:

The fact that she managed to play the world #2 so tight, reach the second week of Wimbledon, and play at such a high level at times is impressive in itself.

madmax
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:54 PM
Vera lost to Caro at the YEC last year in a dull fashion, clown :facepalm:

And? Did your precious Push win ANY important hardcourt tourney last year, apart from clown asian events, clown?

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 06:57 PM
Okay, I give up. If you really think that makes much a difference despite the fact that Caro has already reached the USO final and SF last year then I can't help you.

Do you really think a successful Slam for the world #1 is losing routinely in the semis to someone who gets thrashed in the final? :help:

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:02 PM
Do you really think a successful Slam for the world #1 is losing routinely in the semis to someone who gets thrashed in the final? :help:

That's not the point. You´re disputing that she's one of the favorites to win it despite her past results that strongly indicate she's one of the main contenders.

And to top it off, you list a bunch of players that she is supposedly unlikely to beat on hardcourt, the only problem being she has beaten all these players on hardcourt before.

Plus, I don't really see how it belittles reaching the SF just because her opponent gets beaten in the final.. by the strongest of all players on hardcourt as we´ve established before.

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:15 PM
And? Did your precious Push win ANY important hardcourt tourney last year, apart from clown asian events, clown?

Sorry, let me get this right, your a Mashatard trying to discredit Caroline's HC credentials? Lets reverse the question shall we, because you already know Caroline had a stella HC season last year.

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:36 PM
But Caro lost the most important match against Zvonareva to date.
So? Montreal final + Beijing final + YEC SF > one slam SF

Matt01
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:37 PM
And? Did your precious Push win ANY important hardcourt tourney last year, apart from clown asian events, clown?


Yeah, a small tournament which is called "Canadian Open". :wavey:

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:40 PM
I stopped reading at this point :yawn: :zzz:

Ignorance is bliss, eh. ;)

madmax
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:47 PM
Yeah, a small tournament which is called "Canadian Open". :wavey:

tell me if she beat the best hardcourt player there... hell, tell me if she even held a match point against her, which "inferior hardcourter" Maria managed to achieve earlier:wavey:

theFutureisNow
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:50 PM
And I´ve told you she beat all of them except Clijsters on hardcourt already so your logic escapes me. You have a hard time seeing her beat Kvitova on harcourt? Really? Kvitova? Do you need me to dig up her hardcourt results?

Caro is the second best player in the world on hardcourt, falling only close to a healthy and fit Clijsters. She's the only one she really has to fear on hc, the question is whether or not Clijsters even manages to get in good shape in time for the USO.

We will see when they meet. When it comes to Kvitova, H2H means nothing.

Kvitova has had an almost miraculous improvement this year. She went from 34th last year to 2nd so far.
Sharapova has gotten better also-18th to 4th.

Matt01
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:53 PM
Ignorance is bliss, eh. ;)


:)


tell me if she beat the best hardcourt player there... hell, tell me if she even held a match point against her, which "inferior hardcourter" Maria managed to achieve earlier:wavey:


Are you serious? :haha:
You think that holding a MP against Kim and then going down miserably in the 3rd set is better than winning Canadian Open, Toyko and Bejing plus reaching semis of the US Open while beating your fave on the way? Please tell me it ain't so :haha:

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:53 PM
:facepalm:
So she's the second best player on hardcourts according to Push stans yet she's still losing to Vera when it matters the most in a dull fashion?:lol: Something doesn't add up here me thinks...

Does it ever when Carotards are on a rant?


Vera was the one losing finals to Caro last year.

And Caro's the one losing finals to Vera this year. :shrug:

Matt01
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:56 PM
And Caro's the one losing finals to Vera this year. :shrug:


Which finals did she lose? :confused:

Novichok
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:57 PM
tell me if she beat the best hardcourt player there... hell, tell me if she even held a match point against her, which "inferior hardcourter" Maria managed to achieve earlier:wavey:

Did Maria beat Kim last year? Caroline was the better hard court player last year and this year. I'm sure you believe Memphis>Canadian Open.:lol:

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:58 PM
Does it ever when Carotards are on a rant?




And Caro's the one losing finals to Vera this year. :shrug:

Error.

Chrissie-fan
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:58 PM
At this point there are for me about six or seven players who have a good chance of winning the USO, including Woz. So in my opinion she has one chance in seven of taking the title. I neither over or underrate Caroline, but neither do I underrate the other contenders.

Novichok
Jul 6th, 2011, 07:58 PM
Which finals did she lose? :confused:

She lost Doha. During her awesome Dubia-Doha-IW run.

Edit: Missed the "s"

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:01 PM
So you disagree that Serena hasn't found her form yet? Okay, if her Wimbledon performance was all she can do then that means she won't be much of a threat to Caro either. Disagreeing with my point dosen't really work in your favor here ;)

:lol:

Serena doesn't need to be 100% to beat Wozniacki. Remember, they both went out in the same round, at Wimbledon, and Serena was coming off an 11 month absence. You'd better worry about your own fave's Wimbledon performance, especially after that Keystone Cops performance she pulled yesterday. :tape:

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:02 PM
That's not the point. You´re disputing that she's one of the favorites to win it despite her past results that strongly indicate she's one of the main contenders.

If we're taking "favourites" to mean what most people mean it as (bookmakers' odds), then there's nothing to dispute about whether Wozniacki is one of the top favourites: she's only the 5th favourite, behind Clijsters, Kvitova, Sharapova and Serena. Do you think all the bookmakers are "haters" and blindy anti-Woz too? Wozniacki hasn't yet proved she's a major threat to win Grand Slams, and the only way she will change that is by winning a Slam, not by winning yet more Tier 1 titles.

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:04 PM
Okay, I give up. If you really think that makes much a difference despite the fact that Caro has already reached the USO final and SF last year then I can't help you.

Just look at her slam results, she hasn't won any. There's your difference! Take the blinders off!

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:06 PM
She made the final, SF of the last 2 USO's, in the semis of the last 2 hardcourt majors.

Its not that terrible, certainly no reason to be pessimistic about the next decade

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:08 PM
She made the final, SF of the last 2 USO's, in the semis of the last 2 hardcourt majors.

Its not that terrible, certainly no reason to be pessimistic about the next decade

It's not terrible, but it's also no indicator that she's going to win it this year, considering last year she lost to someone who was humiliated in the final.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:08 PM
Just look at her slam results, she hasn't won any. There's your difference! Take the blinders off!

How makes Kvitova having won a slam on grass make her more likely to beat Caro on hardcourt? You guys act like winning a slam automaticly makes a player a contender on all surfaces...which is nonsense.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:12 PM
How makes Kvitova having won a slam on grass make her more likely to beat Caro on hardcourt? You guys act like winning a slam automaticly makes a player a contender on all surfaces...which is nonsense.

Not on hardcourt specifically, but at the US Open, Kvitova would probably be the favourite, yes. Kvitova has shown she has the mentality to win Slams and play her best when it matters most, while Wozniacki hasn't - and that's the big difference.

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:12 PM
A year ago the talk now was that Caro was never going to win a Tier I, never going to beat a former #1, and she was headed out of the top 10 after her 2009 USO points came off.

So a big improvement in a year. Now its just win majors, which is what the absolute elite do while they're #1. Because you want to be both, a long term #1 and a multiple slam winner.

She has the long term #1, so now to be at the very top, needs a major.

And we expect it to happen, but it wasnt going to happen on grass or clay. Not yet in her development.She's still much better on hard

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:13 PM
It's not terrible, but it's also no indicator that she's going to win it this year, considering last year she lost to someone who was humiliated in the final.

Venus won Wimbledon how many times? Yet last two Wimbledons she was humiliated by Pironkova.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:13 PM
If we're taking "favourites" to mean what most people mean it as (bookmakers' odds), then there's nothing to dispute about whether Wozniacki is one of the top favourites: she's only the 5th favourite, behind Clijsters, Kvitova, Sharapova and Serena. Do you think all the bookmakers are "haters" and blindy anti-Woz too? Wozniacki hasn't yet proved she's a major threat to win Grand Slams, and the only way she will change that is by winning a Slam, not by winning yet more Tier 1 titles.

No, I have no idea about betting but I think those odds represent the bets that are placed on these players. And since Kvitova won Wimbledon a lot of people are jumping their bandwagon and think she's a contender for absolutely everything now.

This is probably made worse by the fact that casual fans who only follow slams don't realize that Kvitova is mediocre at best on hardcourt, making these odds nonsensical. Every sane tennis fan who knows his stats can see that Caro is the top contender together with Clijsters and Serena, provided both are healthy.

Sharapova hasn't won a hardcourt match against Caro since 2008 (!) so please tell me why Caro wouldn't be a favorite in an USO match against her.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:15 PM
A year ago the talk now was that Caro was never going to win a Tier I, never going to beat a former #1, and she was headed out of the top 10 after her 2009 USO points came off.

I never said any of those things.

So a big improvement in a year. Now its just win majors, which is what the absolute elite do while they're #1. Because you want to be both, a long term #1 and a multiple slam winner.

But she's NOT improving at the Slams.

And we expect it to happen, but it wasnt going to happen on grass or clay. Not yet in her development.She's still much better on hard

So is everyone else in the top 20 apart from Schiavone, and possibly Stosur.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:15 PM
Not on hardcourt specifically, but at the US Open, Kvitova would probably be the favourite, yes. Kvitova has shown she has the mentality to win Slams and play her best when it matters most, while Wozniacki hasn't - and that's the big difference.

Right, because reaching the USO Final and losing to Clijsters (the best hardcourt player) shows that Caro can do nothing during slams.

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:16 PM
Not on hardcourt specifically, but at the US Open, Kvitova would probably be the favourite, yes. Kvitova has shown she has the mentality to win Slams and play her best when it matters most, while Wozniacki hasn't - and that's the big difference.

Kvitova doesn't have to deal with the same pressure as she's not #1. They're both mentally strong, but with the amount of criticism Woz is getting, it's really difficult. But of course that's your goal. To put as much pressure on her as possible and make it as difficult for her as possible. Hopefully she just keeps trucking and we can serve you huge dish of crow when she eventually does win a slam.

Ryusuke Tenma
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:16 PM
Venus won Wimbledon how many times? Yet last two Wimbledons she was humiliated by Pironkova.
These guys are simply tools, kman. Nothing more to it.

As for Wozniacki, they seem to think that because she lost early on clay and grass at the age of 20 this year means she won't ever win a slam, not even on hardcourts (her much favoured surface). They know little.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:16 PM
So is everyone else in the top 20 apart from Schiavone, and possibly Stosur.

But not better than Caro. No on besides Clijsters and Serena is better on hardcourt, you have no facts that suggest anything else. Only your assumption that the fact that it's a slam will somehow make a difference..

Certinfy
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:19 PM
I think the worst thing for her would be if we get a new first time Grand Slam winner, it could affect her mentally quite a bit.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:20 PM
No, I have no idea about betting but I think those odds represent the bets that are placed on these players. And since Kvitova won Wimbledon a lot of people are jumping their bandwagon and think she's a contender for absolutely everything now.

This is probably made worse by the fact that casual fans who only follow slams don't realize that Kvitova is mediocre at best on hardcourt, making these odds nonsensical. Every sane tennis fan who knows his stats can see that Caro is the top contender together with Clijsters and Serena, provided both are healthy.

:rolls: People who place bets do it because they want to win money - they don't just hate Wozniacki and want to bash her by placing a bet against her even if they think that really she's going to win. The fact is that people who are betting some of their money on the US Open believe that Wozniacki has little chance of winning it.

Also, Kvitova has had as many top 10 wins at Slams on hardcourts as Wozniacki. There's not a HUGE gulf.

Sharapova hasn't won a hardcourt match against Caro since 2008 (!) so please tell me why Caro wouldn't be a favorite in an USO match against her.

If they met in the 4th round or QFs, Wozniacki might be a slight favourite. If they met in the semis or final, Maria would be the overwhelming favourite, because she's shown she can handle the big stages while Wozniacki usually loses meekly at those stages. Don't forget, in 3 of the 4 Slams in the past year, Wozniacki has lost to people she owns on the WTA Tour.

Venus won Wimbledon how many times? Yet last two Wimbledons she was humiliated by Pironkova.

And as a result, Venus probably won't be a favourite at Wimbledon next year.

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:20 PM
The tone really changed in a year. After Jankovic won 2010 IW, that final was supposed to be a clear example of how Caro couldnt win a Tier I or beat a former #1.

Those days are so gone now. Now its like there's only 8 weeks a year that matter.
But only 2 weeks this year.

Fortunately for Caroline only Kim has done better than her at the USO over the last 2 years.

And Caro coming into the summer after her best 1st half of a year ever in her career

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:21 PM
But not better than Caro. No on besides Clijsters and Serena is better on hardcourt, you have no facts that suggest anything else. Only your assumption that the fact that it's a slam will somehow make a difference..

Wait, what?? In the past YEAR, Wozniacki might have been one of the best, but are you really saying her career achievements on hardcourts trump Sharapova or Venus, or even Safina or Jankovic?

Also, Li wasn't better than Caro on clay before this year's RG; Li won RG while Woz lost in the 3rd round. Wozniacki has consistently shown she performs significantly below her WTA form on the biggest stages.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:22 PM
:rolls: People who place bets do it because they want to win money - they don't just hate Wozniacki and want to bash her by placing a bet against her even if they think that really she's going to win. The fact is that people who are betting some of their money on the US Open believe that Wozniacki has little chance of winning it.



That's not even what I said. My point was that many casual fans and betters don't know about Kvitova's poor hardcourt results and consider her a contender now just because she won Wimbledon. That's why she's up there in the odds...

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:23 PM
Wait, what?? In the past YEAR, Wozniacki might have been one of the best, but are you really saying her career achievements on hardcourts trump Sharapova or Venus, or even Safina or Jankovic?

I´m talking about current performance, are you blaming Caro for being 20 years old now?

Since she has reached her prime form she has become one of the top 3 hardcourt players, period.

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:23 PM
Which finals did she lose? :confused:

2011 Hong Kong Tennis Classic"Vera Zvonareva powered her way to a convincing win against World No. 1 Caroline Wozniacki in a surprisingly quick match – 6-1, 6-0, in under an hour. Right from the beginning Zvonareva was incredibly focused, out there to win at all costs. An aggressive, attacking style of play left Wozniacki looking in shock as the balls whizzed past her, out of reach. Zvonareva was in a purple patch throughout the match, hitting every shot perfectly. Constantly ready to pounce, she hammered ball after ball across the net."

2011 Dubai Tennis ChampionshipsAs the second seed at the 2011 Dubai Tennis Championships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Dubai_Tennis_Championships), Zvonareva received a bye into the second round. There, she defeated Roberta Vinci (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberta_Vinci) 6–3, 6–1. In the third round, she was upset by the No. 15 seed Alisa Kleybanova (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alisa_Kleybanova) 3–6, 2–6. Zvonareva picked up her first title of 2011 in late February at the 2011 Qatar Ladies Open (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Qatar_Ladies_Open_%E2%80%93_Singles). She was the No. 2 seed, receiving a bye into the second round, where she defeated Dominika Cibulková (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominika_Cibulkov%C3%A1) 6–1, 6–2. In the quarterfinals, she defeated Daniela Hantuchová (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniela_Hantuchov%C3%A1) 7–5, 6(5)–7, 7–5 in a match lasting over three hours after trailing 5–4 in the third set. She defeated former World No. 1 Jelena Janković (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelena_Jankovi%C4%87) 6–1, 2–6, 6–4 in the semifinals, and current World No. 1 and top seed Caroline Wozniacki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Wozniacki) 6–4, 6–4 in the final. It was Zvonareva's first title in over a year and the third time she defeated the reigning World No. 1.

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:27 PM
2011 Hong Kong Tennis Classic

Are you kidding... :rolleyes:

Matt01
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:29 PM
JN :facepalm:

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:29 PM
That's not even what I said. My point was that many casual fans and betters don't know about Kvitova's poor hardcourt results and consider her a contender now just because she won Wimbledon. That's why she's up there in the odds...

Do you really think people stake their money on something without doing research first? :weirdo: The people placing bets are people who follow the sport very closely. They have seen that Kvitova has the mentality to handle the biggest stages, that her past hardcourt results have shown promise, and that's she's improving at a rapid rate; while they've seen Wozniacki consistently shrink when it matters most, and her Slam results level off. Don't forget, Wozniacki was the bookies' favourite at last year's US Open, but then, despite being in great form in WTA matches, she went out of the USO itself in lame fashion; that showed bettors that she can't be trusted to contend for Slams no matter what her form at regular tournaments is. Same at this year's RG, where she went in as one of the favourites due to a strong claycourt season, but bombed out in the 3rd round to a relative nonentity. She won't be taken seriously as a contender for Slam titles again until she proves she can win them.


Since she has reached her prime form she has become one of the top 3 hardcourt players, period.

But not at the hardcourt Slams. I have no doubt she could well win the Canadian Open or Tokyo or whatever again this year, but she's not in the top 3 contenders for the US Open, and that's all there is to it.

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:30 PM
Are you kidding... :rolleyes:JN is one of the dopiest trolls out there. :lol:

Blu€
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:30 PM
It was Doha she lost, not Dubai :rolleyes:

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:31 PM
And as a result, Venus probably won't be a favourite at Wimbledon next year.
She was one of the favorites this year, despite getting humiliated in the (EXACT) same way last year :tape:

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:33 PM
Do you really think people stake their money on something without doing research first? :weirdo: .

Of course, do you really think those large betting companies make their profits off the people who put thoughts behind their bets? I know a few people who bet on football and most people tend to bet on the team that's on a current hot-streak, ignoring odds and past results.

These odds mean nothing and the fact that it is a slam is not as much of a factor as you want it to be. She already has proven she has what it takes to win USO, there's no shame to losing to Clijsters in the final.

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:33 PM
Are you kidding... :rolleyes:

Oh cool. Exhibitions count now. Then Caro beat Serena. Yay!

The Reff
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:34 PM
Do you really think people stake their money on something without doing research first? :weirdo:

hmmmmmmm ... yes I'm pretty sure that a lot of people do exactly that

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:35 PM
Venus won Wimbledon how many times? Yet last two Wimbledons she was humiliated by Pironkova.

Venus has 7 slams which means she's reached that necessary level of play. Caro hasn't and shows nothing that says she soon will. There's no comparison with Venus, who I'm sure would blow the pusher off the court... well, it might take 3 sets. ;)

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:35 PM
Do you really think people stake their money on something without doing research first? :weirdo:

Yes on a daily basis... The betting industry relies on it.

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:37 PM
Venus has 7 slams which means she's reached that necessary level of play. Caro hasn't and shows nothing that says she soon will. There's no comparison with Venus, who I'm sure would blow the pusher off the court... well, it might take 3 sets. ;)

Nothing showed Kvitova, Franny and Li were about to win a slam either. In fact, they had been on so-so road for a while before winning those slams, much more so than Wozniacki.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:39 PM
She was one of the favorites this year, despite getting humiliated in the (EXACT) same way last year

People assumed that her loss to Pironkova last year was a one-off, as she had been so consistently strong at Wimbledon for years, and so effectively gave her 'the benefit of the doubt'. Wozniacki has underperformed relative to her form at normal tournaments at every Slam bar the AO in the past 12 months, and so bettors are no longer giving her the benefit of the doubt - they assume that performing poorly at Slams is the norm for her.

Of course, do you really think those large betting companies make their profits off the people who put thoughts behind their bets? I know a few people who bet on football and most people tend to bet on the team that's on a current hot-streak, ignoring odds and past results.

Oh dear. If it was just random people who had no interest in tennis betting on the biggest name, then Anna Kournikova would've been the hot favourite for every event she played.

Also, I thought according to you that casual fans assumed the world #1 was the best player, not the Slam champions?

She already has proven she has what it takes to win USO.

Not according to bookmakers.

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:39 PM
It was Doha she lost, not Dubai :rolleyes:

A Double Dildo... Not bad for a days trolling :lol: You could make this stuff up...

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:40 PM
Yes on a daily basis... The betting industry relies on it.

Then why was Kvitova one of the pre-tournament favourites for Wimbledon despite very few people who don't follow tennis closely having heard of her before?

bandabou
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:40 PM
It's her best surface..so anything less than SF at least and people are gonna crucify her. Gonna be interesting to see how much, if any, impact the two losses at RG and Wimbledon have had on Caro.

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:41 PM
Then why was Kvitova one of the pre-tournament favourites for Wimbledon despite very few people who don't follow tennis closely having heard of her before?
Kvitova was great at Wimbledon in 2010. Bageled Vika & Caro, lost in the semis to a healthy Serena.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:41 PM
Oh dear. If it was just random people who had no interest in tennis betting on the biggest name, then Anna Kournikova would've been the hot favourite for every event she played.



Don't be ridiculous, Kournikova never won shit and certainly not Wimbledon. Don't act like you can't figure out where the boost of Kvitova's odds is coming from, you´re not that stupid.

The whole odds thing is nonsense to begin with, you can only trust these numbers if you assume that the vast majority of betters have superior tennis knowledge and understanding.. which isn't true. Every dipshit bets and only a few people put a lot of thought behind their picks.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:42 PM
Kvitova was great at Wimbledon in 2010. Bageled Vika & Caro, lost in the semis to a healthy Serena.

Which only someone who follows tennis closely would've known, not someone who just occasionally looks at sport on the back pages and then decides they'll go and bet some money on the name they know best despite knowing nothing about the form/history of certain players.

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:43 PM
People assumed that her loss to Pironkova last year was a one-off, as she had been so consistently strong at Wimbledon for years, and so effectively gave her 'the benefit of the doubt'. Wozniacki has underperformed relative to her form at normal tournaments at every Slam bar the AO in the past 12 months, and so bettors are no longer giving her the benefit of the doubt - they assume that performing poorly at Slams is the norm for her.

Oh dear. If it was just random people who had no interest in tennis betting on the biggest name, then Anna Kournikova would've been the hot favourite for every event she played.

Also, I thought according to you that casual fans assumed the world #1 was the best player, not the Slam champions?

Not according to bookmakers.

dsanders06, What's the interest in Caro if you don't mind me asking? You seem to do little but post about her these days? You don't seem to visit the player section... so what gives with the endless focus on Caroline?

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:43 PM
Which only someone who follows tennis closely would've known, not someone who just occasionally looks at sport on the back pages and then decides they'll go and bet some money on the name they know best despite knowing nothing about the form/history of certain players.

Everyone who watched Wimbledon 2010 knew... and casual fans tend to only watch the slams. You´re really digging yourself a hole here...

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:44 PM
Don't be ridiculous, Kournikova never won shit and certainly not Wimbledon. Don't act like you can't figure out where the boost of Kvitova's odds is coming from, you´re not that stupid.

You seem to be suggesting people who don't follow tennis except for the odd match at a Slam place bets on tennis. If that was the case, then, considering Kournikova was the best-known name, surely she would've been the favourite?

The whole odds thing is nonsense to begin with, you can only trust these numbers if you assume that the vast majority of betters have superior tennis knowledge and understanding.. which isn't true. Every dipshit bets and only a few people put a lot of thought behind their picks.

In the 21st century, the pre-tournament betting favourite for a Slam has won more times than the top seed at a Slam has won.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:45 PM
Everyone who watched Wimbledon 2010 knew... and casual fans tend to only watch the slams. You´re really digging yourself a hole here...

So someone who takes an interest in tennis then, not randomers who don't know anything about the sport.

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:46 PM
This is the 1st year Caro made AO SF
1st year Caro won a Tier I in the 1st half of the year, Dubai
1st year Caro won a mandatory in the 1st half of a year, IW
1st year Caro is #1 in the race the 1st half of a year.

This is her best start to a year by far.
Now comes her best part of the year, after Wimbledon

Aaron.
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:46 PM
:)





Are you serious? :haha:
You think that holding a MP against Kim and then going down miserably in the 3rd set is better than winning Canadian Open, Toyko and Bejing plus reaching semis of the US Open while beating your fave on the way? Please tell me it ain't so :haha: It's safe to say logic isn't in his vocabulary :help:

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:47 PM
Are you kidding... :rolleyes:

"A win is a win." No matter how insignificant a Caro win, it gets treated like the Queen has handed over the throne to her. So again, "a win is a win."

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:47 PM
So someone who takes an interest in tennis then, not randomers who don't know anything about the sport.

Casual fans who only watch the big tournaments, I doubt that people who have zero interest in tennis bet on the matches. But people who only watch the slams can easily get a false sense of the player's abilities which is my point regarding Kvitova's odds.

You can very easily draw the wrong conclusions just by watching the slams.

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:49 PM
Then why was Kvitova one of the pre-tournament favourites for Wimbledon despite very few people who don't follow tennis closely having heard of her before?

FAvorite is a stretch, however she was touted all over the shop... Just because people read a few pundits or the tennis section of a newspaper before betting on Wimbledon, does not mean they follow form... Just look at the Grand National.

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:52 PM
"A win is a win." No matter how insignificant a Caro win, it gets treated like the Queen has handed over the throne to her. So again, "a win is a win."

Don't break your nails scratching at that shelf of credibility you just fell off. :lol:

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:53 PM
Casual fans who only watch the big tournaments, I doubt that people who have zero interest in tennis bet on the matches. But people who only watch the slams can easily get a false sense of the player's abilities which is my point regarding Kvitova's odds.

You can very easily draw the wrong conclusions just by watching the slams.

Then what's your point? Yes, mostly, bookies' odds reflect who's proven they can play their best at Slams (which Kvitova has, and Wozniacki hasn't) - which is obviously completely relevant to odds on... er... who's going to win a Slam.

But occasionally, for an up-and-comer who's in great form, but who hasn't proven they can handle the biggest stages yet, they give them the benefit of the doubt... for instance, this time last year, Wozniacki was nowhere on the bookies' radar for US Open favourites; then she won two hardcourt events (non-Slams) and she became the favourite, because bookies gave her the benefit of the doubt about her previous failure to win a Slam. Then she flopped at the USO itself. Then she flopped again at RG and Wimbledon this year, to players who, in non-Slams, she beats. Therefore, bookies don't give her the benefit of the doubt anymore - in their mind, even if she goes into the US Open unbeaten, she'd still be an unsafe bet for the USO itself, because she consistently performs below her non-Slam form at the Slams.

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:54 PM
It was Doha she lost, not Dubai :rolleyes:

Blame overzealous cut-n-pasting, but "2011 Qatar Ladies Open" is right there in my quote.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:55 PM
FAvorite is a stretch, however she was touted all over the shop... Just because people read a few pundits or the tennis section of a newspaper before betting on Wimbledon, does not mean they follow form... Just look at the Grand National.

All the talk in the mainstream British papers before Wimbledon was about Sharapova, the Williams sisters and Li; very little talk about Kvitova. Therefore, the fact Kvitova was the 4th favourite (ahead of Li and Wozniacki) reflects that most bettors were well-informed about tennis.

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:55 PM
Then what's your point? Yes, mostly, bookies' odds reflect who's proven they can play their best at Slams (which Kvitova has, and Wozniacki hasn't) - which is obviously completely relevant to odds on... er... who's going to win a Slam.



Your answer to my claim that Caro has already proven she has what it takes to win USO by reaching the final was that the bookies don't agree. And we´re just established that the odds can't be trusted simply because too many people with sparse tennis knowledge bet on the matches.

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:58 PM
Your answer to my claim that Caro has already proven she has what it takes to win USO by reaching the final was that the bookies don't agree.

Making the final isn't proving she can win it. Making the semis and losing to Zvonareva certainly isn't proving it.

And we´re just established that the odds can't be trusted simply because too many people with sparse tennis knowledge bet on the matches.

Again, what percentage of normal people would've heard of Kvitova two weeks ago?

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 08:59 PM
All the talk in the mainstream British papers before Wimbledon was about Sharapova, the Williams sisters and Li; very little talk about Kvitova. Therefore, the fact Kvitova was the 4th favourite (ahead of Li and Wozniacki) reflects that most bettors were well-informed about tennis.

And the grand National? You read the two page spread before the race and take a punt... does not mean you're informed in the sense that you follow racing... The odds are far more likely to be reflective of more learned punters opinions at the small events...

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:00 PM
Again, what percentage of normal people would've heard of Kvitova two weeks ago?

Again, pretty much everyone who followed Wimbledon 2010. Which is a lot...

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:00 PM
Don't break your nails scratching at that shelf of credibility you just fell off. :lol:That's a loony toon :lol:

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:01 PM
JN is one of the dopiest trolls out there. :lol:

Oh please, you with your cheerleading of the same boring Caro-points day in and day out like they're gonna magically become relevant if you repeat 'em enough. :lol:This is the 1st year Caro made AO SF
1st year Caro won a Tier I in the 1st half of the year, Dubai
1st year Caro won a mandatory in the 1st half of a year, IW
1st year Caro is #1 in the race the 1st half of a year.

This is her best start to a year by far.
Now comes her best part of the year, after Wimbledon
See? There you go again. :rolleyes:

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:01 PM
Again, what percentage of normal people would've heard of Kvitova two weeks ago?

Anyone watching the Wimbledon previews on the BBC for a start...

Burisleif
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:03 PM
dsanders06, What's the interest in Caro if you don't mind me asking? You seem to do little but post about her these days? You don't seem to visit the player section... so what gives with the endless focus on Caroline?

Looks like somebody missed my question eh dsanders09.

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:03 PM
Oh please, you with your cheerleading of the same boring Caro-points day in and day out like they're gonna magically become relevant if you repeat 'em enough. :lol:
See? There you go again. :rolleyes:You keep worrying about the Hong Kong Classic :lol:

goldenlox
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:05 PM
Looks like somebody missed my question eh dsanders09.He's another nut. These trolls are incredibly stupid.

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:11 PM
You keep worrying about the Hong Kong Classic :lol:

You liked that too, huh? I especially liked the flair with which the writer summarized the match. Here, I'll re-quote it for you:
"Vera Zvonareva powered her way to a convincing win against World No. 1 Caroline Wozniacki in a surprisingly quick match – 6-1, 6-0, in under an hour. Right from the beginning Zvonareva was incredibly focused, out there to win at all costs. An aggressive, attacking style of play left Wozniacki looking in shock as the balls whizzed past her, out of reach. Zvonareva was in a purple patch throughout the match, hitting every shot perfectly. Constantly ready to pounce, she hammered ball after ball across the net."
:worship:

Some just have that gift. We need to get this writer at the US Open.

ArcticMoose
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:25 PM
The whole odds thing is nonsense to begin with, you can only trust these numbers if you assume that the vast majority of betters have superior tennis knowledge and understanding.. which isn't true. Every dipshit bets and only a few people put a lot of thought behind their picks.

Betting organisations are staffed by researchers, statisticians & mathematicians to ensure they maximise their betting revenues - similar to insurance powerhouses utilising actuaries to set insurance premiums to ensure premium collections > payouts

Global betting markets correctly predicted Sharapova reaching the Wimbledon Finals along with Kvitova before RG (Global betting market odds update real-time per second - i.e. odds fluctuate per second similar to share prices)

As the Global betting markets stand today (also stood yesterday before Wozniacki's injury) it's predicting a Williams win

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:34 PM
This is the 1st year Caro made AO SF
1st year Caro won a Tier I in the 1st half of the year, Dubai
1st year Caro won a mandatory in the 1st half of a year, IW
1st year Caro is #1 in the race the 1st half of a year.

This is her best start to a year by far.
Now comes her best part of the year, after Wimbledon

That was my point earlier. Nothing at all indicates that she's somehow stagnating.

Do I expect her hard-court season to be as good as last year? Honestly no. It will be difficult. But you haters shouldn't count your eggs before they hatch. If she wins US Open, you'll just look ridiculous.

JN
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:38 PM
That was my point earlier. Nothing at all indicates that she's somehow stagnating.

Do I expect her hard-court season to be as good as last year? Honestly no. It will be difficult. But you haters shouldn't count your eggs before they hatch. If she wins US Open, you'll just look ridiculous.

The odds of that happening are well worth prematurely counting the eggs.

kman
Jul 6th, 2011, 09:43 PM
The odds of that happening are well worth prematurely counting the eggs.

She just has to win one within the next 10 years.

I looked into your future and saw this:

http://www.nashvillescene.com/imager/eat-crow-watch-the-titans-pluck-the-ravens-saturday-at-the-belcourt/b/original/1481970/941a/EatCrow.jpg

The Reff
Jul 6th, 2011, 10:41 PM
In relation to the "bust" part in the thread title and the general criticism of Caro, here's her own take on things (post Wimbledon)
(original: http://blog.tv2.dk/caroline.tv2/entry405448.html )



Quickfix of Google job


Hello everyone,

In the end I had an unfortunate defeat against Cibulkova in 4th round. Apart from that I had a really good start to the match and generally played a good match. I just failed to seize the opportunities I had; some breakpoints and game points that I did not take. When you do not exploit these opportunities, you do not win close matches, which is also shown by the result.
I am sorry to have disappointed my fans with a defeat, but I get strong again and will do anything to get even better. I hope you will continue to support me and back me up. It is in these situations You give me energy and desire to train hard and to improve.

I know there are many who criticize me and in particular want me change coach. Now I am spending a period with contemplation of the future. I'm in Bastad without my father and trainer. We will see how it turns out here, while I will be looking for new inspiration.

The period I have to go through now is not easy, that's why I will take my precautions, how to make myself ready for the challenges ahead.

One of the things that are also being emphasized in the media is that I do not deserve to be number 1 in the world. I have therefore speculated as to not to play more tournaments this year. This will probably ensure that I tumble down from my position as number 1 and thus the one deserving the space could take it over. It will also take the pressure off me, because expectations for me thus will be less:)

Joking aside, I think I deserve to be where I am. The people who say I play too many tournaments or just get points because of small tournaments, are people who do not understand the rules. I play the tournaments I HAVE to play. There are 16 tournaments that I have to participate in, a year, as I am in the top 10. Besides that, I want to play a preparation tournament for the 4 Grand Slams. Then there are the tournament in Farum and here in Bastad that are optional. I play thees two tournaments to promote Danish, but also Scandinavian tennis. I know from when I was younger, that I thought it was great when Venus Williams and Daniela Hantuchova played in “Parken”. I therefore want to give young people the opportunity to see me play and gather inspiration.


All the best
Caroline

lang26
Jul 6th, 2011, 10:50 PM
The haters R OUt :lol::lol: Big Up TO All Caro Haters

toxina90
Jul 6th, 2011, 10:57 PM
She probably should win this one, just like Jelena should have won it in 08 :facepalm:

I've a feeling she'll lose R3 though. The batteries can't last all year :tape:

vixter
Jul 6th, 2011, 11:36 PM
Your answer to my claim that Caro has already proven she has what it takes to win USO by reaching the final was that the bookies don't agree. And we´re just established that the odds can't be trusted simply because too many people with sparse tennis knowledge bet on the matches.

Actually, I think only you established that the odds can't be trusted. ;)

They can, actually. They are very logical, and it's no nonsense. I thought at first there was big easy money to make by betting on tennis with the insight of a fan. But the odds system is very much calculated by previous results and head to heads and rankings, a variation of things to consider. So every odds is very sensibly calculate. And it's all designed to give smaller money in return for a more probable outcome.

But this is good for you, since you now can earn more money by betting on Woz, should she do the unprobable and win. :p

Jimmie48
Jul 6th, 2011, 11:43 PM
But this is good for you, since you now can earn more money by betting on Woz, should she do the unprobable and win. :p

Right, because I´m looking forward to not only being emotionally gutted if she loses but also lose money as well... that's probably the last thing I´m gonna do, never mix business with passion ;)

dsanders06
Jul 6th, 2011, 11:43 PM
Looks like somebody missed my question eh dsanders09.

I actually considered myself a fan of Wozniacki until a few months ago. But since it became clear she cares about making quick and easy money more than being a champion, I've lost respect for her. Plus, she's making the sport a laughing stock and setting a terrible example to up-and-coming players.

I play the tournaments I HAVE to play

:help:

They can, actually. They are very logical, and it's no nonsense. I thought at first there was big easy money to make by betting on tennis with the insight of a fan. But the odds system is very much calculated by previous results and head to heads and rankings, a variation of things to consider. So every odds is very sensibly calculate. And it's all designed to give smaller money in return for a more probable outcome.

Nope, the bookies are just "dipshits" who take no interest in tennis and are just biased and out to get Wozniacki!!!!111

theFutureisNow
Jul 7th, 2011, 12:13 AM
Actually, I think only you established that the odds can't be trusted. ;)

They can, actually. They are very logical, and it's no nonsense. I thought at first there was big easy money to make by betting on tennis with the insight of a fan. But the odds system is very much calculated by previous results and head to heads and rankings, a variation of things to consider. So every odds is very sensibly calculate. And it's all designed to give smaller money in return for a more probable outcome.

But this is good for you, since you now can earn more money by betting on Woz, should she do the unprobable and win. :p

This is only partially correct. They will almost never give you much better odds on a player than is justified. However, they will sometimes give worse odds on a player if they think that the "dumb money" will chase after it.

So to make the best defense of Caro you might say that Serena/Maria/Kim/Petra all have lower odds because they are more popular and not considered better. But the glaring flaw with this is that Caro is rated #1, and plenty of casual bettors might overrate her based on her ranking. Because of this it is likely that the odds really do reflect the fact that the bookies consider her to be roughly the 5th best contender at the US Open.

Burisleif
Jul 7th, 2011, 12:14 AM
Nope, the bookies are just "dipshits" who take no interest in tennis and are just biased and out to get Wozniacki!!!!111

The odds also reflect the volume of backing...

I actually considered myself a fan of Wozniacki until a few months ago. But since it became clear she cares about making quick and easy money more than being a champion, I've lost respect for her. Plus, she's making the sport a laughing stock and setting a terrible example to up-and-coming players.

Sure you were... :rolleyes: and now you feel obliged to post in every thread? I don't buy it... dsanders06 self-proclaimed saint on a crusade to save junior tennis players by posting in TF GM...

:help:

dsanders06
Jul 7th, 2011, 12:18 AM
Sure you were... :rolleyes: and now you feel obliged to post in every thread? I don't buy it... dsanders06 self-proclaimed saint on a crusade to save junior tennis players by posting in TF GM...

:help:

Nope, but it does piss me off and so I want to bitch about it :)

Graftard
Jul 7th, 2011, 12:18 AM
lol what?

Caro isn't winning USO. Her best hope is to defend Beijing and some other MM's she won last year. Slams are for real champions not moonballers.

Burisleif
Jul 7th, 2011, 12:32 AM
Nope, but it does piss me off and so I want to bitch about it :)

So your purpose on TF is to bitch about Caroline?

Graftard
Jul 7th, 2011, 12:40 AM
She's world number in both the rankings and the race (she's been the best player of 2011) and she's 20, going on 21. She is not in any trouble, that's a hilariously idiotic thing to say. Watch Caroline show what she's made of. She'll show all of you how great she is when the US Open comes around.

:happy:

Actually Kvitova is the best player in the world right now with titles on hard/clay/grass and Wimbledon title.

Caro's clown #1 ranking and "prestigious" titles in Brussels and Copenhagen do not really make her the best player in the world. But hey, she'll still sweep the USO series and lose 6-2 6-3 in R3 of USO to Hantuchova or something. lol.

danieln1
Jul 7th, 2011, 12:50 AM
:happy:

Actually Kvitova is the best player in the world right now with titles on hard/clay/grass and Wimbledon title.

Caro's clown #1 ranking and "prestigious" titles in Brussels and Copenhagen do not really make her the best player in the world. But hey, she'll still sweep the USO series and lose 6-2 6-3 in R3 of USO to Hantuchova or something. lol.

:bowdown: Claycourter! :sport:

Novichok
Jul 7th, 2011, 12:50 AM
:happy:

Actually Kvitova is the best player in the world right now with titles on hard/clay/grass and Wimbledon title.

Caro's clown #1 ranking and "prestigious" titles in Brussels and Copenhagen do not really make her the best player in the world. But hey, she'll still sweep the USO series and lose 6-2 6-3 in R3 of USO to Hantuchova or something. lol.

Kvitova is not number 1 in the rankings or leading the race. :lol::lol::lol:

Brad[le]y.
Jul 7th, 2011, 01:04 AM
:bowdown: Claycourter! :sport:

:speakles:

theFutureisNow
Jul 7th, 2011, 01:32 AM
Kvitova is not number 1 in the rankings or leading the race. :lol::lol::lol:

Give it a couple months.

Jimmie48
Jul 7th, 2011, 01:58 AM
I actually considered myself a fan of Wozniacki until a few months ago. But since it became clear she cares about making quick and easy money more than being a champion, I've lost respect for her. Plus, she's making the sport a laughing stock and setting a terrible example to up-and-coming players.



Yes, a truly terrible example she's setting by working hard and competing in lots of matches. Goodness me, the poor kids that look up to her. If only she could act like some spoiled kid that only cares about partying and shopping..

dsanders06
Jul 7th, 2011, 02:22 AM
Yes, a truly terrible example she's setting by working hard and competing in lots of matches for appearance fees. Goodness me, the poor kids that look up to her. If only she could act like some spoiled kid that only cares about partying and shopping..

Corrected.

Matt01
Jul 7th, 2011, 02:32 AM
Sure you were... :rolleyes: and now you feel obliged to post in every thread? I don't buy it... dsanders06 self-proclaimed saint on a crusade to save junior tennis players by posting in TF GM...

:help:


Apparently, after his obsession with Serena got boring since she stopped playing due to injury, he has now found a new victim in Caro :tape: :help:

JN
Jul 7th, 2011, 02:50 AM
She just has to win one within the next 10 years.

I looked into your future and saw this:

http://www.nashvillescene.com/imager/eat-crow-watch-the-titans-pluck-the-ravens-saturday-at-the-belcourt/b/original/1481970/941a/EatCrow.jpg

I'm sure you've digested plenty over the past year, so tell me... does it taste like chicken?

JN
Jul 7th, 2011, 03:02 AM
Yes, a truly terrible example she's setting by working hard and competing in lots of matches. Goodness me, the poor kids that look up to her. If only she could act like some spoiled kid that only cares about partying and shopping..

Who is this in reference to? It couldn't possibly be Serena, whose off-court activities include:

Fashion

Williams was once known for her unusual and colorful outfits on court. In 2002, there was much talk when she wore a black lycra catsuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catsuit) at the US Open.[83] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-82) At the 2004 US Open, Williams wore denim skirts and knee-high boots—tournament officials, however, did not allow her to wear the boots during matches.[84] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-83) At Wimbledon in 2008, the white trench coat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_coat) she wore during warm-up for her opening match was the subject of much discussion since it was worn despite the sunny weather.[85] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-84) Off-court, Williams has also presented new designs. In November 2004, at the London premiere of After the Sunset (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_the_Sunset) she wore a red gown that had a near-topless effect.[86] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-85)
Williams formerly had a special line with Puma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puma_AG)[87] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-86) and currently has a line with Nike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike,_Inc.). The deal with Nike is worth US$40 million and was signed in April 2004.[88] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-87) Since 2004, she has also been running her own line of designer apparel called "Aneres"—her first name spelled backward. In 2009 she launched a signature collection of handbags and jewelry.[89] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-88) The collection, called Signature Statement, is sold mainly on the Home Shopping Network (HSN).
In early 2010, Williams became a certified nail technician in preparation for her upcoming nail collection with a company called HairTech.[90] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-89)

Entertainment

Williams has appeared on television and also provided voice work on animated shows: in a 2001 episode of The Simpsons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Simpsons) Serena joined the animation along with sister Venus, Pete Sampras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Sampras) and Andre Agassi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Agassi).[91] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-90) She has also provided guest voice work in a 2005 episode of Playhouse Disney's animated kids show Higglytown Heroes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higglytown_Heroes) and a 2007 episode of the Nickelodeon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickelodeon_%28TV_channel%29) cartoon Avatar: The Last Airbender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender),[92] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-91) which she has described as her "favorite show".[93] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-92)
Williams has posed for the 2003 and 2004 editions of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated_Swimsuit_Issue).[94] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-93) In April 2005, MTV announced plans to broadcast a reality show around the lives of Serena and Venus, which was eventually aired on ABC Family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_Family). Williams has appeared twice on MTV's Punk'd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk%27d) and in 2007, appeared in the ABC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Broadcasting_Company) reality television series Fast Cars and Superstars: The Gillette Young Guns Celebrity Race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Cars_and_Superstars:_The_Gillette_Young_Guns_ Celebrity_Race). In 2002, she played Miss Wiggins in the season 3 episode "Crouching Mother, Hidden Father" of My Wife and Kids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Wife_and_Kids);[95] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-94) she has also guest-starred during episodes of ER (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ER_%28TV_series%29) and Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_%26_Order:_Special_Victims_Unit).[96] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-95) In 2007 Williams appeared in the music video of "I Want You" by the American rapper Common, alongside performers Alicia Keys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Keys) and Kanye West (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanye_West).[97] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-96)
In late 2009, Williams became the first active female professional athlete to appear in a feminine hygiene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminine_hygiene) product advertising campaign. A series of online videos and print advertisements for Tampax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampax) Pearl tampons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon) showed her hitting balls at Mother Nature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Nature), played by Catherine Lloyd Burns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Lloyd_Burns), to prevent Mother Nature giving her a red-wrapped gift, representing her menstrual period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_period). In the online videos, the two have dueling press conferences over the "bad blood" between them. "A lot of celebrities are not open to working with our brand, and we're thrilled that Serena is", said a brand manager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_manager) for Tampax at Procter & Gamble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procter_%26_Gamble).[98] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-tampon_ad_NYT_story-97)
Serena and sister Venus were mentioned in a couple of songs namely in Super Furry Animals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Furry_Animals) studio album Phantom Power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Power_%28Super_Furry_Animals_album%29) in a track entitle "Venus and Serena", in a single by Snoop Dogg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snoop_Dogg) Signs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signs_%28Snoop_Dogg_song%29) and Ludacris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludacris)' single My Chick Bad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Chick_Bad).

Miami Dolphins venture

In August 2009, Serena and Venus Williams became part-owners of the Miami Dolphins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Dolphins). The formal announcement was made during a press conference overlooking the practice field. The Williams are the first African-American females to obtain ownership in an NFL franchise. Other prominent owners include: Jimmy Buffett, Gloria and Emilio Estefan (the first Cuban-American owners), and Marc Anthony and Jennifer Lopez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Lopez) . Stephan Ross, the majority owner of the Dolphins, said "We are thrilled to have Venus and Serena join the Dolphins as limited partners. They are among the most admired athletes in the world and have become global ambassadors for the game of tennis. Their addition to our ownership group further reflects our commitment to connect with aggressively and embrace the great diversity that makes South Florida a multicultural gem."[99] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-98)

Charity work

In 2008 Williams helped to fund the construction of the Serena Williams Secondary School in Matooni, Kenya.[100] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-99)[101] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-100) She received a Celebrity Role Model Award from Avon Foundation in 2003 for work in breast cancer.[102] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-101) Williams has also been involved in a number of clinics at schools and community centers, particularly those which have programs focusing on at-risk youth.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-WTA_profile-0) She has also won the "Young Heroes Award" from Big Brothers Big Sisters of Greater L.A. and Inland (2003) and the "Family Circle and Prudential Financial Player Who Makes a Difference Award" (2004).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-WTA_profile-0) In response to the 2010 Haiti earthquake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Haiti_earthquake), Williams, along with other ATP and WTA stars decided to forgo their final day of preparation for the 2010 Australian Open (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Australian_Open) to form a charity event in which all proceeds will go to the Haiti earthquake victims.[103] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-102)

Writing

Serena has published along with her sister Venus Williams and renowned author Hilary Beard[104] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-Hilarybeard.com-103) a book titled Venus & Serena: Serving From The Hip: 10 Rules For Living, Loving and Winning by Boston: Houghton Mifflin in 2005.[104] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-Hilarybeard.com-103) [105] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-104)[106] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-105)[107] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-106)[108] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-107) During the 2009 Wimbledon Championships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Wimbledon_Championships), Williams said that she is in the process of writing a TV show storyline, which will be converted into script form by her agency. She stated that the show will represent subject matter from a mix of popular American television shows such as Desperate Housewives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desperate_Housewives), Sex and the City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_the_City), and Family Guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Guy).[109] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams#cite_note-108) Serena released her first solo published work, an autobiography entitled On the Line, following the 2009 US Open (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_U.S._Open_%28tennis%29).could it? :confused:

Burisleif
Jul 7th, 2011, 03:07 AM
Who is this in reference to? It couldn't possibly be Serena, whose off-court activities include:

could it? :confused:

Seriously, you have already made a fool of yourself twice in this thread... Now your dead set on making your self sound like a twat.

Give it a rest JN. you're doing yourself no favors at all.

Burisleif
Jul 7th, 2011, 03:10 AM
Apparently, after his obsession with Serena got boring since she stopped playing due to injury, he has now found a new victim in Caro :tape: :help:

So he wonders GM taking shots at who ever is the current No.1...

Great asset to TF :yeah:

With such dedicated trolls it makes you wonder just how many accounts each of them has... My guess and research suggest it's plenty...

JN
Jul 7th, 2011, 03:12 AM
Seriously, you have already made a fool of yourself twice in this thread... Now your dead set on making your self sound like a twat.

Give it a rest JN. you're doing yourself no favors at all.

Your concerns have been noted and trashed. Next time keep them to yourself, cuz the outcome will be the same.

Burisleif
Jul 7th, 2011, 03:17 AM
Your concerns have been noted and trashed. Next time keep them to yourself, cuz the outcome will be the same.

What's that outcome? You will make a fool of yourself again, and after that ridicule, blindly and out of the blue accuse posters of hating Serena? Doesn't surprise me really.

Potato
Jul 7th, 2011, 04:55 AM
If she doesn't do as well as last year during the USO Series, she will be even more trashed as the number one... hopefully this pressure will help her not hurt her.

goldenlox
Jul 7th, 2011, 07:19 AM
If she doesn't do as well as last year during the USO Series, she will be even more trashed as the number one... hopefully this pressure will help her not hurt her.Critics come with the territory.
Jankovic was very good when she was #1. 2008 Moscow was as good a tournament as you're going to see.
But it was clear that Dinara was going to pass her early in 2009.
Dinara got injured badly while #1.

Wozniacki is much younger than those 2 were. Her career is different. But if she loses early again in NY, of course she is going to be criticized.
But all she can do is try her best, and this is her best surface the next 9 months.
So it should be a good competition

GrandMartha
Jul 7th, 2011, 09:34 AM
threads about Pushniacki :yawn:

Vee Williams
Jul 11th, 2011, 01:54 PM
Posters who criticize Caro at all opportunities presented need to consider that she is the number one in the world, with millions in the bank, and with priorities/aspirations that we don't know. Despite what is being said during interviews (which most of the time aims to please rather than express absolute truths), there is much which we don't know in order to express harsh or netaive opinions about Caro. What number of the posters on the forum would love for their favorite player to have the same achievements that Caro has? How many women out there would love to become number one in the world?

danieln1
Aug 7th, 2011, 02:31 PM
I want her to win, but it will be terrible for her if she doesnt, hopefully it will not be another Safina/Jankovic drama

Rainie Conner
Aug 7th, 2011, 03:01 PM
She don't care she has RORY!

Aramitz_II
Aug 7th, 2011, 03:51 PM
If we're taking "favourites" to mean what most people mean it as (bookmakers' odds), then there's nothing to dispute about whether Wozniacki is one of the top favourites: she's only the 5th favourite, behind Clijsters, Kvitova, Sharapova and Serena. Do you think all the bookmakers are "haters" and blindy anti-Woz too? Wozniacki hasn't yet proved she's a major threat to win Grand Slams, and the only way she will change that is by winning a Slam, not by winning yet more Tier 1 titles.

Bookies make odds by distribution of gambling not by trying to guess who is the best. And at this early stages most gambler are fan based. Yes USA is a little bit bigger than Denmark. Actually these 5 first are pretty much ordered in accordance with the population in the players countries.

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 12:42 AM
If she loses early, its still her 1st major as a 21 year old. Kim had won 1 major when she turned 26.
So I dont buy this now or never urgency. But I sure would like her to get her 1st asap

atennisfanid
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:08 AM
If she loses early, its still her 1st major as a 21 year old. Kim had won 1 major when she turned 26.
So I dont buy this now or never urgency. But I sure would like her to get her 1st asap

Are you for real or did you start following tennis just a year ago?

Kim started her tennis career during the absolute peak of the Williams sisters and Kim's ascend coincided with the absolute strongest era in women tennis ever (should I roll the names for you too?) and got injured few times as well, while Woz is playing in the weakest era and is not injured, and yet still can't win a slam.

Excelscior
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:26 AM
Kvitova is not number 1 in the rankings or leading the race. :lol::lol::lol:

NO! She's just #2 in the race right now, and counting. :wavey: :rolleyes: :wavey:

Excelscior
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:39 AM
Nothing showed Kvitova, Franny and Li were about to win a slam either. In fact, they had been on so-so road for a while before winning those slams, much more so than Wozniacki.

I don't know what planet you were on, but I and many other bloggers had picked Kvitova long before Wimby started to win it this year. For that matter, so did Navratilova, Sam Smith, Ravi Uhba, Brad Gilbert, and John McEnroe, who picked her to make the finals. So don't mix Petra up with Li Na and Schiavone (and Even Li Na made it to the Australian finals, Dimwit), with your silly, amateurish projections.

As far as Wimby 2011, Petra was already in the top 4-6 betting odds, before Wimby even started. That's right! That was great for a virtual unknown (and higher than Wozniaki I may add). So just because you didn't feel that way, don't say no one thought Kvitova could win. That's bullshit! Because she obviously impressed many fans with her semi-final performance last year, otherwise her odds wouldn't of been so good from the start, and progressively grew as she went deeper into the tournament.

Despite what the media hype/story was, Petra was never a surprise winner if you go by her betting odds (she was practically even with Sharapova by the semi-finals). As a matter of fact, if She didn't face Serena Williams in 2010, its highly likely Petra would of been winning her second Wimby title this year.

And how the hell was Kvitova on a so so road, when she had the best winning percentage in 2011, and won 3 titles, including a Premier mandatory already (before Wimby)? I know I'm late on your post, but you were really talking out of your ass on this one, regarding Kvitova, I see.

Wishful thinking on your part I guess? Typical BS from a Carotard.

PS: No one is picking Caro to win any of these titles, on any surface!

edificio
Aug 8th, 2011, 05:45 AM
I'm looking forward to see how she does in the US Open series. Can't wait for tomorrow.

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 06:17 AM
Are you for real or did you start following tennis just a year ago?

Kim started her tennis career during the absolute peak of the Williams sisters and Kim's ascend coincided with the absolute strongest era in women tennis ever (should I roll the names for you too?) and got injured few times as well, while Woz is playing in the weakest era and is not injured, and yet still can't win a slam.Jackass. Vera vs Vika, so Vera is in the tough era because she broke up the all Williams finals in 2003?
Its not the weakest era. Kim is holding the 2 hardcourt majors, and she is the best hardcourt player the last 10 years, or 2nd best. Caroline at 19, is playing a mature Kim in 2009 USO final.
Worry about the weakest era in 5 years.
Toronto, and this coming USO could be some of the strongest fields in years

bandabou
Aug 8th, 2011, 06:25 AM
This is her time..U.S. open and Oz open..otherwise it's gonna be a loooooonnnggg 6/7 months waiting again.

Smitten
Aug 8th, 2011, 07:21 AM
She isn't winning in Flushing Meadows. Give it up people.

All the people who said at the end of last year, "Oh I'm sure she'll win one next year," said that out of pure optimism. Someone will take her out as usual and then she will have another season being slamless and can console herself when half of the top 20 tank or withdraw out of the Asian events and she cleans up again.

Same script, different year.

Matt01
Aug 8th, 2011, 11:13 AM
Are you for real or did you start following tennis just a year ago?

Kim started her tennis career during the absolute peak of the Williams sisters and Kim's ascend coincided with the absolute strongest era in women tennis ever (should I roll the names for you too?) and got injured few times as well, while Woz is playing in the weakest era and is not injured, and yet still can't win a slam.


Are you for real or did you start following tennis just a year ago? Because what you are claiming here is all unproven crap.

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 01:00 PM
Kim & Serena won the last 3 AO's & USO's.
So I think winning 1 of 2 majors she excells at now is difficult.
Caro is holding 5 of the 7 Tier I's on hardcourt & was in the YEC F.
So if Caro can continue at that level or improve, I think she is going to have plenty of opportunity.

One year ago she had no Tier I's. Now its majors, but the 2 she is best at are tough right now.
I dont know if she's ready anyway because of the losses to Vera & Na.
But she has all the time she needs

Inger67
Aug 8th, 2011, 01:02 PM
Hoping either Venus, Woz, or Petra win the US Open.

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 01:18 PM
Totally agree. She's says she feels no pressure, but she's been #1 for nearly a year now, and an established top 5 player for even longer, yet her GS results are poor.

Clear markings she is not slam material.

Matt01
Aug 8th, 2011, 01:22 PM
Totally agree. She's says she feels no pressure, but she's been #1 for nearly a year now, and an established top 5 player for even longer, yet her GS results are poor.

Clear markings she is not slam material.


Her Slam results on HC are anything but poor.

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 01:31 PM
Her Slam results on HC are anything but poor.

Maybe, but they are anything but a W, let a lone a final.

Matt01
Aug 8th, 2011, 01:35 PM
Maybe, but they are anything but a W, let a lone a final.


Funny I could have sworn that she has made a final at the US Open. :scratch:

And in case you are talking about Woz as #1: She has played exactly 3 Slams as #1. To draw any definite conclusions from that is premature.

bandabou
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:07 PM
:lol: And then by the time the next u.s. open rolls along it'd have been 7 majors..:lol: After a time you HAVE to draw conclusions, no?

LoveFifteen
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:26 PM
When the Woz reached the US Open final, hers was one of the toughest, most epic runs in Open Era history! :tape: :rolls:

Someone will be snatching her wig before the Quarterfinals. :rolls:

Novichok
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:31 PM
When the Woz reached the US Open final, hers was one of the toughest, most epic runs in Open Era history! :tape: :rolls:

Someone will be snatching her wig before the Quarterfinals. :rolls:

Caroline can only play the players across the net from her. Not hypothetical players.

I don't believe Caroline will be snatched before the SF anyway. She's the third best player on hard courts these days.

willybonker
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:48 PM
Wozniacki has no chance against Lennox. Lennox is a much better player than Wozniacki will ever be, simply because Lennox knows how to be aggressive at the right times.

Wozniacki forgot the words "aggressive" and "deserving/worthy" in her dictionary.

dsanders06
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:50 PM
Kim & Serena won the last 3 AO's & USO's.
So I think winning 1 of 2 majors she excells at now is difficult.

And there we have admittance even from one of her diehard fans that she isn't really the best player in the world right now.

dsanders06
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:52 PM
Caroline can only play the players across the net from her. Not hypothetical players.

I don't believe Caroline will be snatched before the SF anyway. She's the third best player on hard courts these days.

Presuming you mean Serena and Kim are ahead of her, then why have Li and Zvonareva also beaten her at hardcourt Slams in the past 12 months?

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:53 PM
Caroline can only play the players across the net from her. Not hypothetical players.

I don't believe Caroline will be snatched before the SF anyway. She's the third best player on hard courts these days.

I bet you said the same for Wimbledon and Roland Garros.

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:54 PM
I dont think Caroline is the best player in the world.
But week after week, she is the most consistent of the best 5 or 6. Even if she is not YE #1 for the 2nd year in a row, she will be #1 for at least 9 months of this year

Where she settles among the better players will be determined over time. At her age, Hingis had all her majors & Justine won 1

Novichok
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:54 PM
Presuming you mean Serena and Kim are ahead of her, then why have Li and Zvonareva also beaten her at hardcourt Slams in the past 12 months?

They outplayed her that particular day.;)

Novichok
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:55 PM
I bet you said the same for Wimbledon and Roland Garros.

I'm sure I didn't. But the quote would've still be valid during Wimbledon and RG. I'm not deluded enough to claim that Caroline is near the top on clay/grass. I do believe she could've done a lot better though.

willybonker
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:56 PM
They outplayed her that particular day.;)

Li and Zvonareva, as useless as they are, >>>>>>>>> Wozniacki.

Not only her wig is gonna be snatched off her big (fore)head, her roots are gonna be extracted with one pull. She has no business being the fake Number One. To repay the WTA for giving her the No.1 spot, she should play a WTA 5 set match and die on court of exhaustion to redeem herself.

Novichok
Aug 8th, 2011, 02:59 PM
Li and Zvonareva, as useless as they are, >>>>>>>>> Wozniacki.

Not only her wig is gonna be snatched off her big (fore)head, her roots are gonna be extracted with one pull. She has no business being the fake Number One. To repay the WTA for giving her the No.1 spot, she should play a WTA 5 set match and die on court of exhaustion to redeem herself.

You should be banned from this forum.:wavey:

BartoLiNa
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:00 PM
She has very little chance of winning the USO this year. She has only ever beaten one top 10 player there and that was 2 years ago. She is outside the top 10 contenders for the title.

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:01 PM
I'm sure I didn't. But the quote would've still be valid during Wimbledon and RG. I'm not deluded enough to claim that Caroline is near the top on clay/grass. I do believe she could've done a lot better though.
To me, this is the problem. She had match point against Li.
She could have gone further in every slam this year.
As a long term #1, going as far as possible each major should be a high priority.
Its something that she should be thinking about, especially New Haven week

willybonker
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:02 PM
She has very little chance of winning the USO this year. She has only ever beaten one top 10 player there and that was 2 years ago. She is outside the top 10 contenders for the title.

This. She has no business being a top player. A great and extraordinary opportunist is what she is, definitely not a great player. Even Azarenka being No.1 will be much better for the WTA than this hobo.

dsanders06
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:03 PM
She is outside the top 10 contenders for the title.

Although I wouldn't go that far, she would certainly need someone else to take out Kim, Serena, Maria, and probably Kvitova and Li, because I give her very little chance of beating any of those 5 in the latter stages of a Slam.

Novichok
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:05 PM
To me, this is the problem. She had match point against Li.
She could have gone further in every slam this year.
As a long term #1, going as far as possible each major should be a high priority.
Its something that she should be thinking about, especially New Haven week

I agree. She needs to schedule better.

This. She has no business being a top player. A great and extraordinary opportunist is what she is, definitely not a great player. Even Azarenka being No.1 will be much better for the WTA than this hobo.

:rolleyes:

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:06 PM
She has very little chance of winning the USO this year. She has only ever beaten one top 10 player there and that was 2 years ago. She is outside the top 10 contenders for the title.

THIS.

Blu€
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:07 PM
Although I wouldn't go that far, she would certainly need someone else to take out Kim, Serena, Maria, and probably Kvitova and Li, because I give her very little chance of beating any of those 5 in the latter stages of a Slam.

:happy:

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:08 PM
:happy:

Sorry, how many slam finals has Caroline made this year?

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:10 PM
Last year Maria made the finals of Stanford & Cincy, and Caroline beat her in NY.
But each year is different.
Caroline hasnt played in the USO series yet.
Both Vika & Maria did not look sharp in Stanford, unlike last year.

But all these top players want to peak week 2 in NY

Novichok
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:10 PM
Sorry, how many slam finals has Caroline made this year?

I'm sorry but how many games did Maria win the last time she played Caroline on a hard court?:confused:

Help: How many slams does Maria have?

atennisfanid
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:11 PM
Jackass. Vera vs Vika, so Vera is in the tough era because she broke up the all Williams finals in 2003?
Its not the weakest era. Kim is holding the 2 hardcourt majors, and she is the best hardcourt player the last 10 years, or 2nd best. Caroline at 19, is playing a mature Kim in 2009 USO final.
Worry about the weakest era in 5 years.
Toronto, and this coming USO could be some of the strongest fields in years

An injury prone mother who had retired won 3 slams, and a part time injury prone tennis player has been won the other slams, and you are calling this era strongest?


LOL.

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:12 PM
I'm sorry but how many games did Maria win the last time she played Caroline on a hard court?:confused:

Wow, petty much? Who gives a shit, I'm sure Sharapova won't be remembered for how many games she won against Caroline in Indian Wells, but for the multiple slams and slam finals she has made.

What has Caroline got to her resume that Maria hasn't?

NOTHING, and it will remain that way.

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:13 PM
The players who are winning the USO & AO recently are considered the 2 best hard court players.

Novichok
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:13 PM
An injury prone mother who had retired won 3 slams, and a part time injury prone tennis player has been won the other slams, and you are calling this era strongest?


LOL.

Serena and Venus lost to that injury prone mother. :rolleyes:

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:13 PM
How many games did Caroline win against Sharapova on clay, her worst surface :confused:

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:14 PM
Wow, petty much? Who gives a shit, I'm sure Sharapova won't be remembered for how many games she won against Caroline in Indian Wells, but for the multiple slams and slam finals she has made.

What has Caroline got to her resume that Maria hasn't?

NOTHING, and it will remain that way.Caroline is a long term #1 & YE #1, Maria never was.
But pre surgery Maria was an excellent player.
Caroline's era coincides with post surgery Maria, who hasnt won a major or been #1

dsanders06
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:15 PM
Last year Maria made the finals of Stanford & Cincy, and Caroline beat her in NY.
But each year is different.

Firstly, Maria is doing much better now than she was last year. But the most crucial thing, there's a big difference between playing one of the main contenders in the 4th round compared to later in the tournament (and Maria and Caroline wouldn't be able to meetuntil the QFs at the earliest this year)... later in the tournament, the more powerful hitters have got into their groove and are less likely to have off-days; while Caroline is usually exhausted by that stage due to overplaying in the lead-up. Then there's the mental dynamics. If they met in the semis in New York, Maria would be the overwhelming favourite as she's shown she can handle the pressure at the business end of Slams, while Caroline routinely shrivels at that stage.

Blu€
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:16 PM
Sorry, how many slam finals has Caroline made this year?

What's that got to to do with the fact that Sharapova has lost every time she's faced a decent player in a Slam.

Novichok
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:17 PM
Wow, petty much? Who gives a shit, I'm sure Sharapova won't be remembered for how many games she won against Caroline in Indian Wells, but for the multiple slams and slam finals she has made.

What has Caroline got to her resume that Maria hasn't?

NOTHING, and it will remain that way.

You scoffed at Caroline's ability to beat Maria on a hard court. I gave an example of Caroline scalping Maria.

How many games did Caroline win against Sharapova on clay, her worst surface :confused:

She won 8 games. Clay is not Caroline's strongest surface either and it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.(see above)

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:18 PM
Caroline is a long term #1 & YE #1, Maria never was.
But pre surgery Maria was an excellent player.
Caroline's era coincides with post surgery Maria, who hasnt won a major or been #1

Pre surgery Maria > Wozniacki at any time in her career.

#1 doesn't mean much anymore. Look at Jankovic, Safina etc. To be #1 in the womens game has lost a lot of credibility, than say 10/20 years ago.

If there was a decision to be #1 or win a slam, you'd go for the slam.

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:19 PM
You scoffed at Caroline's ability to beat Maria on a hard court. I gave an example of Caroline scalping Maria.



She won 8 games. Clay is not Caroline's strongest surface either and it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.(see above)

Of course Caroline has the ability to beat Maria on a hard court, post-surgery Sharapova is a shadow of her former self. One victory however bares no relevance. When Wozniacki beats a top player in a slam, let me know.

Novichok
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:20 PM
Of course Caroline has the ability to beat Maria on a hard court, post-surgery Sharapova is a shadow of her former self. One victory however bares no relevance. When Wozniacki beats a top player in a slam, let me know.

USO 4th Rd.:kiss:

dsanders06
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:23 PM
USO 4th Rd.:kiss:

And another match between them in the 4th round this year is impossible.

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:23 PM
USO 4th Rd.:kiss:

Sharapova was not a top player in 2010.

Kuznetsova maybe, but we all know Kuznetsova should have won it.

LoveFifteen
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:24 PM
I am almost certain that someone will be snatching Caro's wig before the Quarters. It would give me so much life to see Serena vs. Caro in the 3rd round. :hearts:

willybonker
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:24 PM
Wozniacki has never beaten a top player. Top player in terrible/Top 100 worthy form? Yes and tons.

It doesn't help that many of the supposed top players are only made to look good in this mug era where even someone as mediocre as Push can get to Number One. Her luck will end someday.

No slams for Push. That's your punishment for stealing the Number 1 ranking.

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:29 PM
In GM there are disagreements about how good a player Wozniacki is.
She won 5 Tier I's in a row, I dont think a player who is not elite could do that.

So it will be about majors for her detractors, because she does everything else at a high level.
She is by far the week in week out #1 over the past year, outside the majors.
She understands the situation. She's been asked about winning majors. The next major will be her 1st as a 21 year old. So plenty of time to compete in majors

dsanders06
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:30 PM
I am almost certain that someone will be snatching Caro's wig before the Quarters. It would give me so much life to see Serena vs. Caro in the 3rd round. :hearts:

I bet she ends up with a cakewalk draw... something like Schiavone in the quarters and Zvonareva in the semis :bigcry:

greNade
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:32 PM
In GM there are disagreements about how good a player Wozniacki is.
She won 5 Tier I's in a row, I dont think a player who is not elite could do that.

So it will be about majors for her detractors, because she does everything else at a high level.
She is by far the week in week out #1 over the past year, outside the majors.
She understands the situation. She's been asked about winning majors. The next major will be her 1st as a 21 year old. So plenty of time to compete in majors
Majors are 8 weeks of a 40 or so week year. You can't be a year in year out #1 if you're not doing well in majors.

Yorker
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:38 PM
In GM there are disagreements about how good a player Wozniacki is.
She won 5 Tier I's in a row, I dont think a player who is not elite could do that.

So it will be about majors for her detractors, because she does everything else at a high level.
She is by far the week in week out #1 over the past year, outside the majors.
She understands the situation. She's been asked about winning majors. The next major will be her 1st as a 21 year old. So plenty of time to compete in majors



Do you actually think Caroline is nervous about playin a slam and being a year older? I mean seriously when she was 20 it was she's only 20 she's only 20, now it's her first slam at 21.

I'll make this plain and simple. She's been number 1 for what over a year almost? If you are ranked number 1 you shouldn't be losing 3rd and 4th round at slams or to players whom you beat nonstop outside of slams which seems to be Caroline's pattern, time to put up or shut up for her, seriously her age means jackshit, she wants to be treated like number 1 then she needs to gain some balls and do damage in a slam.

goldenlox
Aug 8th, 2011, 03:42 PM
I agree that she should not lose to players in majors that she beats in Premiers.
But year after year she improves.
People keep forgetting that a year ago, the discussions were that she would never win a Tier I, beat a former #1, & that she would leave the top 10 when her 2009 USO F points came off.

She did a lot more Aug 2010-July 2011 than Aug 2009-July 2010.

Now, lets see what her form is this fall.
I still have no idea, but her draw this week is real and should tell something

Wiggly
Aug 8th, 2011, 04:04 PM
She really needs a deep run.

Sponsors won't be willing to splash some big money on her if she can't make it to a primetime match to save her life. Any loss before the SFs is a disaster for her.

Yorker
Aug 8th, 2011, 04:16 PM
I agree that she should not lose to players in majors that she beats in Premiers.
But year after year she improves.
People keep forgetting that a year ago, the discussions were that she would never win a Tier I, beat a former #1, & that she would leave the top 10 when her 2009 USO F points came off.

She did a lot more Aug 2010-July 2011 than Aug 2009-July 2010.

Now, lets see what her form is this fall.
I still have no idea, but her draw this week is real and should tell something



Those are just deluded haters who kept pulling the tier 1 failure or whatever. Seriously this is starting to get real, you're saying she has time but what happens if all this pressure keeps adding from failing to win one and her game goes to hell like we've seen before. It's not a good idea to wait a long time for a slam when you're number one in the world. She needs to schedule better, if she plays New Haven this year, that's a big mistake. I know she loves it there but it's not a good idea. She needs to start prioritizing certain aspects, change a few things and then she's in with a chance bu right now I think she's all over the place.

atennisfanid
Aug 8th, 2011, 04:18 PM
Serena and Venus lost to that injury prone mother. :rolleyes:

Are you too blind to notice the difference?

Serena and Venus are way past their peak, Woz is at her peak
Serena and Venus are not world's #1, Woz is world's #1
Serena and Venus are often hampered by injuries and other interests, Woz is 100% healthy and tennis is the only focus in her life.

It's normal that Serena and Venus lost to injury prone semi-retired mother, while it is HUGELY embarrassing for Woz, who is a 21 yo world's #1, to lose to injury prone semi-retired mother.

MidnightHaute
Aug 8th, 2011, 04:23 PM
She will not win a Grand Slam title because Kvitova is the real GOAT of the future. Wozniacki is simply taking advantage of this transitional period in WTA.