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View Full Version : What seperates the Williams sisters from the rest?


GoGoMaggie
Nov 4th, 2002, 01:35 PM
Obviously the sisters have been dominating the game. What meaks them so different from the rest of the players?

irma
Nov 4th, 2002, 01:37 PM
they play better tennis?

GoGoMaggie
Nov 4th, 2002, 01:40 PM
ok you can say that. but what do they have that makes them special? technique wise, physique wise..whatever more specific i appreciate.....

Serendy Willick
Nov 4th, 2002, 01:41 PM
Why do you care? Youve always got something negitive to say

rioak1
Nov 4th, 2002, 01:44 PM
they hit the ball damn hard,i think that works rather well when the ball goes 117 mph plus.

irma
Nov 4th, 2002, 01:45 PM
you also have to control it!

Volcana
Nov 4th, 2002, 01:47 PM
They run as fast or faster than anyone else on tour.
They hit as hard or harder than anyone else on tour.
They serve as well or better than anyone else on tour.
They hold their focus as well or better thananyone else on tour.
They think during points as well or better than anyone else on tour.

They're both better than average volley-ers.
They both can use finesse, although its mostly just a change of pace to set up power shots.

They've got their UE's down to the same number as the rest of the tour.

Uxobi
Nov 4th, 2002, 01:51 PM
Everyone hits the ball hall, Venus and Serena just hit it harder. They also have the best tennis game around at this point. Their domination over the rest of the field shows that they have developed into ultimate tennis players. It was wonderful to hear the other tennis players admit that Venus and Serena were just more than power hitters. They impressed everyone by learning tennis technique and taking the game to another level.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 4th, 2002, 02:35 PM
lindsay and jen hit the ball just as hard the difference is that linds doesnt have the speed to back it up and while jen has more speed than linds she doesnt have as much as vee or rena.

selesrules
Nov 4th, 2002, 02:38 PM
speed and power (especially on the serve). But just like everybody else before them, they will start losing and in my opinion as soon as next year.

Serendy Willick
Nov 4th, 2002, 02:44 PM
Awesome athletisism, Mental Toughness, fantastic work ethic. A great head on their shoulders. They will dominate for years to come in my opinion.

Gandalf
Nov 4th, 2002, 03:07 PM
LOL at Volcana. They got the UE number down to the same number as the rest of the tour?. As Coetzer? They think between points better than anyone else? Do you REALLY think that?

What separates them is that they don't have a real weakness, like Steffi's backhand, or Seles and Davenport's mobility, or Hingis's lack of power. If they have a bad day, they can lose, but it's hard for the other players to find a strategy against them. It's not that they do everything better. It's that they do some things better, and nothing much worse.

servenrichie
Nov 4th, 2002, 03:12 PM
posted by Gandalf:
...It's not that they do everything better. It's that they do some things better, and nothing much worse.

LOL! at this quote. Just like the view of an optimist and a pessimist, where the optimist sees the glass half full and the pessimist sees it half empty.
Bottom line is, they are much better than everyone else!

PhoenixStorm
Nov 4th, 2002, 03:13 PM
did you even read volcanas post? I swear sometimes people seem to even read: AS WELL AS OR BETTER and BETTER THAN AVERAGE

Gandalf
Nov 4th, 2002, 03:21 PM
Sorry, but what Volcana's post says is:

No-one hits harder than them.
No-one serves better than them.
No-one holds her focus better than them.
No-one thinks between points better than them.

And this is simply not true.

Pierce hits harder.
Davenport serves better.
Seles holds her focus better.
Hingis thinks between points better.

They are the best because they are incredibly good at ALL those things, while the rest of the players are not good at at least one of them.

Serendy Willick
Nov 4th, 2002, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Gandalf
Sorry, but what Volcana's post says is:

No-one hits harder than them.
No-one serves better than them.
No-one holds her focus better than them.
No-one thinks between points better than them.

And this is simply not true.

Pierce hits harder.
Davenport serves better.
Seles holds her focus better.
Hingis thinks between points better.

They are the best because they are incredibly good at ALL those things, while the rest of the players are not good at at least one of them.

Sorry, but Davenports serve is not better than Serenas. Davenport herself compared Serenas serve to Pete Samprassss:mad:

Volcana
Nov 4th, 2002, 03:42 PM
Gandalf - You're a liar.

My post said

"They run as fast or faster than anyone else on tour.
They hit as hard or harder than anyone else on tour.
They serve as well or better than anyone else on tour.
They hold their focus as well or better than anyone else on tour.
They think during points as well or better than anyone else on tour.

They're both better than average volley-ers.
They both can use finesse, although its mostly just a change of pace to set up power shots.

They've got their UE's down to the same number as the rest of the tour."

If you're going to lie, at least try not to look stupid doing it.

tennisfan1972
Nov 4th, 2002, 03:45 PM
posted by Gandalf:
quote:...It's not that they do everything better. It's that they do some things better, and nothing much worse.



YEAH YOU ARE STRETCHING KINDA FAR. since u wanna be picky, how about this
They are better at not doing any thing worse than the other players......lol

or an alternate one...
They are better at not losing.

or even better.
They have a better match points percentage.


HOPE THIS HELPS!

Gandalf
Nov 4th, 2002, 03:59 PM
Volcana,

'They run as fast or faster than anyone else' means that no-one else is faster. Because, if someone else was faster, they wouldn't run as fast as or faster than this person. The same with the rest.

If you're going to use English, try not to look stupid doing it.

Tennisfan1972,

Sorry if the phrase was too complicated for you. Don't worry about it, when you grow up you will understand it.

Luci,

You're rigt: Serena's serve is better than Davenport's. But Lindsay's is better than Venus' IMO. Anyway, the rest of the examples show what I mean.

TeeRexx
Nov 4th, 2002, 04:02 PM
Thread answer:

1. Excellent tennis
2. Attractive
3. Intelligent
4.Good manners

vs1
Nov 4th, 2002, 04:07 PM
Gogomaggie is obsessed with Venus and Serena! She just can't stop. Maybe your handle should be "gogowilli!"

I think some of their MANY superior assets is their Mental Toughness, Speed, Angles and Point Construction.

They stay relaxed and focused during a match. They don't dispute line calls or let the previous point dictate their present or future points.

They are fast and accurate. It's not just fast for the sake of being fast. You can quickly get to the ball. But you've got to do something destructive once you get to the ball. So they are quick but they are also thinking and executing quickly to make the return offensive.

They produce some of the best angles.

They are good (and have become even better) at staying patient and working the point through. Setting it up to force an error or to make a winner.

They are the best! That's why they are #1 & #2 (and without even a full sleigh of tournaments...not THAT'S incredible!).

Volcana
Nov 4th, 2002, 04:48 PM
Gandalf - Lying is lying, and you do it often, if not well. I wrote what I wrote, not your (usually biased) interpretation of it. And don't worry about looking dishonest. You ARE dishonest, which inevitably takes care of the 'looking' part.

GoGoMaggie
Nov 4th, 2002, 04:58 PM
vs1 actually you are right. the more negative things i ve written, the fonder i ve gotten of them... it s strange. i didnt hate then but didnt like them either but now im kinda into their games more than ever. yeah guess i should follow your suggestion that my handle should be gogowilly. thanx for a nice idea.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Nov 4th, 2002, 05:20 PM
Venus and Serena take the best of both worlds. How often did people say about Arantxa, "She has such great foot speed, it's amazing to think how good she would be if she had power." How many times did people say about Monica, "She has such great power, it's amazing to think how good she would be if she were mobile around the court." They combine the footspeed of the greatest movers and the power of the biggest hitters. So not only can they run everything down, but if you hit an easy ball, you're screwed. That puts an enormous amount of pressure on people to hit amazing shots, and causes them to hit errors. You're constantly on the defensive with them, no matter what you do, and that's why they are ahead of everyone.

Gandalf
Nov 5th, 2002, 07:09 AM
Volcana-Your answer shows you have no answer. Show me that what I wrote means something different that what you wrote. The rest is bla bla bla

BasicTennis
Nov 5th, 2002, 07:29 AM
their fighting heart.....they just keep on playing even with so many distractions like bad line call, matchpoints against them, etc., etc......this is the one that many players don't have.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 5th, 2002, 01:31 PM
They win because overall they are better than everyone else. Period.

And all this finesse crap is just that crap. Monica won nine grandslams with LITTLE FINESSE and a BASELINE GAME. I think they are in great company.

jay_k
Nov 5th, 2002, 01:56 PM
Please don't put Monica's game down .Few people with a game like Monica have won as much as she has .....I may be biased but to me she is one of the most talented players ever to have played the game .

Volcana
Nov 5th, 2002, 02:48 PM
Gandalf - My answer is, you're a liar.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 5th, 2002, 02:59 PM
Cutting edge fashion sense (serena)

Classic elegance (venus)

Brassy attitude(serena)

Regal Attitude(venus)

Cutting Wit (venus)

Bold statements(serena)

Wicked backhand (both)

Killer serves(both)

Court speed(both)

Aggressiveness(both)

Fortitude(both)

Tenacity(both)

Mental resilency(both)

joao
Nov 5th, 2002, 05:03 PM
What seperates the Williams sisters from the rest?

Well right now it's exactly 1324 pts!:p

ot1962
Nov 5th, 2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Gandalf
And this is simply not true.

Pierce hits harder.
Davenport serves better.
Seles holds her focus better.
Hingis thinks between points better.


This is NOT true. And if something is NOT true, it must be a LIE.
Let's take it one point at a time...

- Have you seen Pierce play Venus??? Even on Clay, Venus ALWAYS overpower Pierce. Are you talking HARD ala Lucic??? You are not, are you?:confused:

- Now Davenport has a better technique than Venus, that's true. How could that mean she serves better?? Well, i suppose for this, we would have to LISTEN to Lindsay herself. She SAYS Venus's serve is the toughest. It is a fact that Venus' serve is up and down, but how does that translate into a NOT a good serve if she serves well at crucial times. Do you know that even the best ever server (Pete) shows his best when down break-points???

- are you sure about Seles focus, especially when playing the sisters or even Hingis???? Seles' serve ALWAYS break down worse than Venus' when they are playing. That is a fact (Venus won all their matches except one!).

- well, for Hingis thinking between POINTS, that WAS true a while ago. If you want to know what she herself thinks now, go and read her last 2 or 3 interviews. She claims she does not have enough TIME to think through points anymore. Venus and Serena do not have such problems.



What seperates them?
They are better overall package. They have no known weaknesses, unless you disagree with the greatest Grand Slam player of all time (Steffi).

Gandalf
Nov 5th, 2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by ot1962


This is NOT true. And if something is NOT true, it must be a LIE.
Let's take it one point at a time...

- Have you seen Pierce play Venus??? Even on Clay, Venus ALWAYS overpower Pierce. Are you talking HARD ala Lucic??? You are not, are you?:confused:

- Now Davenport has a better technique than Venus, that's true. How could that mean she serves better?? Well, i suppose for this, we would have to LISTEN to Lindsay herself. She SAYS Venus's serve is the toughest. It is a fact that Venus' serve is up and down, but how does that translate into a NOT a good serve if she serves well at crucial times. Do you know that even the best ever server (Pete) shows his best when down break-points???

- are you sure about Seles focus, especially when playing the sisters or even Hingis???? Seles' serve ALWAYS break down worse than Venus' when they are playing. That is a fact (Venus won all their matches except one!).

- well, for Hingis thinking between POINTS, that WAS true a while ago. If you want to know what she herself thinks now, go and read her last 2 or 3 interviews. She claims she does not have enough TIME to think through points anymore. Venus and Serena do not have such problems.



What seperates them?
They are better overall package. They have no known weaknesses, unless you disagree with the greatest Grand Slam player of all time (Steffi).


--I've seen them play on clay and no, Venus doesn't overpower Pierce. What happens is that Pierce is much slower than Venus, and as a consequence Venus' shots are much more effective than Mary's. That's why Venus can hit more winners than Mary: even if her shots (which are very hard) as not as hard as Mary's, the difference in speed makes Venus retrieve more shots than Mary

--I think Lindsay says that Serena's serve is the best, but I may be wrong. You said that Venus serve goes up and down, but that it doesn't mean that it is not a good serve. I didn't say it wasn't a good serve (of course it is), I said that Lindsay's serve is better, if you don't agree, fine.

--It's true that Seles serve breaks down when playing Venus, I didn't say that her serve was better or anything. And matches are not only decided on focus, I think Venus has won all but one because she is a better OVERALL player. Still, I think Seles concentrates better in matches.

--Hingis, you're saying that she doesn't have time to think DURING points, I'm saying that she thinks better BETWEEN points, that's different. By thinking between points I mean trying to change the strategy when things go wrong, and I think that she's better at that that the sisters.

And please, go and read my first post. I already said there

`What separates them is that they don't have a real weakness ',

I think we both have the same opinion, that they are much better OVERALL because they don't have a weakness. What I didn't agree with (and read my posts if you want) is with the facts mentioned above. It's the combination of being good at all things that makes them n1 and n2, but I don't think they are the best of the tour in the four things I mentioned above.

nasty nick#2
Nov 5th, 2002, 06:00 PM
Easy, they are both very physical and strong and they hit the ball harder.

CappyMania
Nov 5th, 2002, 09:19 PM
They're black? I don't know... :confused:

MarcusRock
Nov 5th, 2002, 09:52 PM
CappyMania, I think they meant things besides the obvious. Sherlock you are NOT.

NastyNick#2, your signature is classic. "...I prefer players with class like Dokic, Hingis and Capriati"? My oh my. Thanks for the laugh.

PhoenixStorm
Nov 6th, 2002, 12:32 AM
but those players have no class..., well maybe except jelena.

nasty nick#2
Nov 6th, 2002, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by MarcusRock
NastyNick#2, your signature is classic. "...I prefer players with class like Dokic, Hingis and Capriati"? My oh my. Thanks for the laugh.

Constantly Hit the ball as hard as you can is not so difficult, anyone can do it. *Yawn*

servenrichie
Nov 6th, 2002, 10:27 AM
orig. posted by nasty nick#2:
I prefer players with class like Dokic, Hingis and Capriati"
Oh yea!, nasty nick#2's signature is classic. I cant stop laughing.

But the best one is this:
Constantly Hit the ball as hard as you can is not so difficult, anyone can do it. *Yawn*
Now that is really, really classic!

Now i wonder why he sits behind his monitor to type insults, instead of going out to hit hard and become rich and famous.

Experimentee
Nov 6th, 2002, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by nasty nick#2


Constantly Hit the ball as hard as you can is not so difficult, anyone can do it. *Yawn*

LMAO anyone can do it, like Cappy and Dokic?

anton
Nov 6th, 2002, 12:32 PM
they hold their serves at ease most of the time while other girls struggle.

the serve is the most important shot in tennis so this is why v-s are at the top + they move very well and can run down balls.

also I think Venus and Serena are not catty and nasty like a lot of other players. Black people really have to work harder sometimes since they get criticised and picked up and sometimes people they to keep them down so I'm glad to see Venus and Serena doing well in spit of others bad wishes for them. I think some people are full of hate and nastiness so it's is so refreshing to see two girls who are about being positive and meeting their goals.

nasty nick#2
Nov 6th, 2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by servenrichie

Now i wonder why he sits behind his monitor to type insults, instead of going out to hit hard and become rich and famous.

You know, the Atp tour is kinda tougher...

beeing able to hit the ball hard, is what you learn first.

Serendy Willick
Nov 6th, 2002, 01:05 PM
Jennifer Capriati and class should not be in the same sentence.

GoGoMaggie
Nov 18th, 2002, 08:08 AM
true

GrandSlammed
Nov 18th, 2002, 12:54 PM
Billy Jean King and Navratilova have told and keep telling you deaf and dummies, what it is that separates the Williamses (even when they ain't winning) from the rest, you just don't want to accept it. The russians don't have it, the anglo saxon americans don't have it, the asians don't have it, the italians don't have it, the spanish don't have it, the __________ don't have it .. ONLY Compton girls have it.

SerenaSlam
Nov 18th, 2002, 01:14 PM
What sepeates them from the rest is the everything everyone else can do, they are a lot better right now. Lindsay and Jennife in no way hit the ball as hard as Venus and serena, if they did don't you think they would have some more winners? And frankly Serena hits the ball the hardest, if you see the grand slam matches this year, Serena hit arond 20 winners each match against Venus. They are much stronger, and a lot more athletic than the rest of the field, but power wise, they hit the ball a lot harder. Monica Seles his the ball harder than Jennifer, but lindsay hits the ball harder than both of them, and if you Saw the match Serena against Monica at the canadian open 2001, you would realize that Serena hits the ball WAY harder than her, and she is a lot louder than monica. Their pure power, strength, and athletic ability is what puts them ahead of the rest of the field. If you have ever heard the tale that African Americans have extra muscles in their legs which make them faster than most, you should take that into consideration. But that is just the tale, that almost everyone should know.

Brian Stewart
Nov 19th, 2002, 12:45 AM
It's the total package. If you look at each aspect of the game individually, you can find players who do it better. But if you look at the combination, you can see the difference. If the players on the tour were graded on the standard 10 scale, with the best player(s) receiving a 10 in each discipline, each of the sisters would rate between 8-10 on virtually every category. That gives them a lot of options.

Every player has a weakness or two. The great players are adept at covering for theirs. For example, Steffi had an attackable backhand, and poor technique on the forehand. She covered it with incredible speed, fantastic footwork, and a sense of timing built up through repetition. Venus has a dodgy second serve. Against most players, she can cover for it with her speed and reach, allowing her to fend off their initial attack. And neither Venus nor Serena is a good volleyer. But most of the time, they come in behind virtual winners, leaving them with the easy volley.

Another hallmark of great players is bringing something extra to the table. Evert brought the focus and serenity under pressure. Navratilova changed the way they train, brought unparalleled athleticism, and the single nastiest serve women's tennis has ever seen. Graf brought the big weapon, and used it in new ways, such as the inside-out forehand. Seles brought an exploitation of court angles, and turned the service return into a weapon. Hingis brought an amazing court sense and intuition.

So, what do the sisters bring? Well, like other greats, they have the "champion's arrogance". That inner belef when you take the court that you not only could win, you should win. The "my best beats your best" attitude. But the sisters bring one thing which you can trace directly to their early coaching. Something which is often sorely lacking in their opponents. If you're a knowledgable observer of tennis, you already know where I'm going with this.

What the sisters do hands-down better than anyone else, which was instilled into them early by their first coach, papa Richard, is finish points. I'm not talking about which shots they hit, or anything like that. I'm talking about how they "play 'til the whistle", as we say in other sports. The sisters never stop playing a point until the point is officially over. They believe they can run down every ball. Most of the time, they do. Some of that is speed, but a lot of it is the willingness to go after every point.

How many times have you seen this: Players A and B are in a rally. A hits a shot that sends B out wide. B can barely get the ball back, and is way off of court. With the whole court open for A, B stops in her tracks, figuring there's no way she can get there, and basically conceeding the point. But then, A's shot clips the net and hops into the air. Given second life, B dashes forward to try to reach the ball. But, because of her early surrender, sheeither doesn't get there in time, or flubs the shot, or if she does get it over, doesn't have enough on it to do anything, and gives A an easy putaway.

Now, how many times have Venus or Serena been put in B's position? Yet they don't surrender the point. They turn and try to get back into the court. When A's shot hits the net and hops up, V/S are easily able to dash in and swat away a winner.

The other benefit of that willingness to hustle is it puts pressure on your opponent. When a Player A has an open court, and they catch a glimpse of an opponent charging hard to get back into court, suddenly it doesn't seem so open. That can lead to overhitting. Giving the opponent the idea that you can get to the ball is often more important than your actual ability to do so. They start playing according to what they think you can do. The sisters have not only convinced themselves that they can reach any ball, but convinced most of their opponents. That can get them a few more points from an opponent's "un"forced errors. In a tight match, that makes the difference. And the tightest matches often come late in the big tourneys.

SerenaSlam
Nov 19th, 2002, 01:40 AM
Very Well said Brian, spoken exactly what i was thinkin, basically Venus and Serena never give up. To break it down a lil further, everyone else on the tour plays the guessing game when it comes to defensive mode, they are always guessing where the ball goes, they will either lean left or right w/ their body weight, therefore leaving anyshot open, and if they are lucky enough to guess right, they get the ball, if you watch venus and serena, they never or hardly guess. as soon as they hit the ball, they are back into the middle of the court, where all options are avaialble to them, their feet are not planted, they are not in mid air, they are ready, rackets back like usual, the only other player i know that is ready and not guessing, is kim clijsters. she is good at this also. If you watch her, her speed, and ability is similar to venus and serena's, but she is not as fast. If you watch jennifer cappy, she is fast, but she guesses. Beleive it or not, she does, she hopps in the air, and runs towards the balls direction. Venus and Serena also have the ability to stop themselves right away, and change direction. Many times players try to go behind them, and unless they can hold the ball as long as moinca sels does, it ain't workin either. Seles is the only 1 i know that is able to do this to them, Venus espeically. This is what they bring to the court along w/ their strength and ability. Serena is naturally toned. As most sistah's are (African American's). Like Ed Gordon off of BET tonite said during serena's interview, "you have the build of a sistah which is not the normal on the WTA. they aren't used to seeing that are they". those were his words, and serena responded w/ a yes, she is naturally toned, w/ big arms, legs, butt, and breasts. she does workout, but not to the extreme to build her arms up like that. Venus is the same way to, but she is taller, not so much slim, ball tall and built. If you saw tapes of Venus and Serena when they were smaller, you would see there Venus and Serena's arms were built or bulky. That is how we are. Being the younger brother of my sister by only 15 months, my sis had and still has some big arms, and she runs track. Afrian Americans are very athletic people, we have always been athletic. If you were to throw Gail Devers or Marion Jones on the tennis court, don't you know they would run everything down. If you compare serena and gail devers, they only difference they would have would be their breasts. Serena is in a class by herself, as an athlete w/ those size breasts. But besides that, you have to realize, venus and serena are natural born athelets. Richard and Oracene knew his gurls could be something, their other daughters probably would've been atheletic as well, but he chose them. This is why they are above the rest of the field. Pure natural born talent. So just think, what if they were to actually get a "real" tennis coach? Would they ever loose?

kiwifan
Nov 19th, 2002, 04:33 AM
Some of what you are saying plays directly into KKK stereotypes.

There are plenty of great athletes that don't have the heart or desire to chase down a cross court drop shot in the middle of a 10 shot rally.

That isn't athleticism that is heart; just like growing up, I knew lots of kids who could dunk but if you don't have the rest of the skill set you're just destined to be a "playground legend".

Also, belittling the coaching the Sisters have had is just flat out incorrect. Don't believe the hype, Richard not only can coach, he is the best coach for Venus and Serena and could help several other players to improve.

For every great African American athlete there are plenty of African American non-athletes. Much athletic prowess comes from lack of economic opportunities. No one claims that Domenicans are born baseball players; it's their ticket out of poverty. Surely if sports was mainly athleticism, we could have just grabbed a college football team and sent them over to play in the world cup this summer. I bet U of Miami's second string players are bigger stronger and faster than all but a handful of the World Cup participants.

Athleticism is just one facet of what it takes to be great at any sport.

Unfortunately sports is still seen as the most direct route to escape poverty in the African American community. You degrade black athletes when you act as though hard work and development of a skill set aren't more important to success than "pure natural born talent".

The Gail Devers example is particularly inaccurate because, speed is one of least important of all tennis skills. Mental alertness and anticipation along with awareness of court angles can help sloth like Brad Gilbert go toe to toe with the best athletes on a tennis court. (editor's note: I hate Brad Gilbert)

What is nice is that the Sisters have speed and strength and the mental alertness to apply them effectively. But, remember they've always had that speed and strength but they haven't always been the best.

Let's give them credit for their beautiful minds as well as their beautiful bodies because that's what seperates the Williams Sisters from the rest!!!

Ps. Brian Stewart I love your comments; I read a lot of true dog crap on this board everyday but messages like your comments above make some of the most assinine threads (which this one truly was originally) worth reading.

santelli
Nov 19th, 2002, 05:12 AM
their gender?

lol, J/K! )

servenrichie
Nov 19th, 2002, 08:20 AM
Well said Kiwifan. Watch them quote SerenaSlam the next time they want to stereotype Venus and Serena. You'd think Gail Devers and Marion Jones would not like to make $3 Millions a year on prize money, instead of chasing a few thousands of dollars all over the world. According to your theory, they are African Americans, born with natural athlethicism, so that playing tennis should actually be very easy.
You do Venus, Serena, their family and the hard work they put in a big disservice with such line of argument.

BTW, why wasnt Lori Macneil, Zina Garrison, the Washingtons, yes even Chanda Rubin grandslam champions? Are they not African Americans?

GoGoMaggie
Nov 19th, 2002, 08:56 AM
nobody has ever said the sister are inferior to other top players in the "brain" department. im sure they used their brains on the court as much as the rest do. and i agree that their mental strenght is one of the facets that separates them from others. but dont keep on cricitizing ppl who pay more attention to their athelticism. cuz obviously that s more prominent than any other part of their game. dont think you can argue on this. none of us has ever said the other areas of their game are mediocure... we all know they do just about everything better than average. but when it comes athleticims, their edge is so much bigger. that s why i believe it s no wrong to say their athletic ablility plays a crucial part in separating them from the rest. it s got nothing to do with whether you like the sisters or not. it s totally fair to pick that aspect of their game in discussing their superiority to the others. sure they do run down a lot of balls but so do many of the others. and we are not ignoring their mental strength or attitude which we all know are worth admirning. so dont be pissed or anything when you hear ppl talk about their athletic superioty. having said that, it s amazing how far they have come and what they have achieved. they are great tennis players no doubt.

servenrichie
Nov 19th, 2002, 09:32 AM
You talk so much and end up contracdicting yourself Gogomaggie.

You say they are athletic. Newsflash so is Kim, Capriati, Dementieva, Henin etc.
They hit hard. Stevenson, Bovina, Capriati, Davenport, Clisters, Henin and a host of others all hit hard.
What really seprates them from others as most people here have tried to point out, is the whole package. A combination of many things. They do most things better than the other players. But if you continue harping about their athleticism, it then becomes nothing but the stereotyping about black athlethes that has its origin from racism and that my friend is where the the problem starts.
They are athlectic, no doubt about that, but it is not what wins them their matches. It helps combined with other important aspects of the game. You see only the athlectic, then you have a problem my friend.

You started this thread. Many people have taken their time to analyse the topic at hand, but this last post you just made here shows me that either you have not taken time to read peoples replies on the issue or you have an absolute prejudiced mind on the issue that prevents you from seeing other perspectives. The next thing you'd do is saying in another thread how Williams fans were calling you a racist because you said the Venus & and Serena are athlectic. I have seen it time and time again on this board. People take this emergency exit when backed in a corner by reason. You have taken it before too :mad: :mad:

santelli
Nov 19th, 2002, 11:56 AM
lol@ the post above-so true!

GoGoMaggie
Nov 19th, 2002, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by servenrichie
You talk so much and end up contracdicting yourself Gogomaggie.

You say they are athletic. Newsflash so is Kim, Capriati, Dementieva, Henin etc.
They hit hard. Stevenson, Bovina, Capriati, Davenport, Clisters, Henin and a host of others all hit hard.
What really seprates them from others as most people here have tried to point out, is the whole package. A combination of many things. They do most things better than the other players. But if you continue harping about their athleticism, it then becomes nothing but the stereotyping about black athlethes that has its origin from racism and that my friend is where the the problem starts.
They are athlectic, no doubt about that, but it is not what wins them their matches. It helps combined with other important aspects of the game. You see only the athlectic, then you have a problem my friend.

You started this thread. Many people have taken their time to analyse the topic at hand, but this last post you just made here shows me that either you have not taken time to read peoples replies on the issue or you have an absolute prejudiced mind on the issue that prevents you from seeing other perspectives. The next thing you'd do is saying in another thread how Williams fans were calling you a racist because you said the Venus & and Serena are athlectic. I have seen it time and time again on this board. People take this emergency exit when backed in a corner by reason. You have taken it before too :mad: :mad:

GoGoMaggie
Nov 19th, 2002, 12:38 PM
oops.. anyway..what you ve just posted is exactly an example of those who take things too far. we dont just look at the athletic department of their game as i ve said millions of times. we all know and agree that other areas of their games are great. i dont understand why you cant see my point. i never said their athletci ability is the only factor that helped them reach where they are now. saying stuff like that is absolutely rediculous. i ve never been labelled as racist by paying attention only to the athletic thing of their game. so i have no problem with being criticized for being sigle dimensional. im sick and tired of repeating my point. cuz however i put it, you will never get it.. dont know how it s so difficult for you to grasp such a simple thought. why do u have to take everything i say so negatively?? what s your problem? looks like you attack everyone who is not supporting the sisters full heartedly. think most of us appreciate them and their game fair enough and what you are saying is absolutely an insult to those who have posted their thorought opinons on the board. you are the one who should read the past posts carefully. stop giving a shit about those who dont always compliment the sisters just because you like them. you are one of the few williams fans who are taking things way too far and causing a lot of trouble and conflicts on the board. grow up mate!!!

servenrichie
Nov 19th, 2002, 02:06 PM
I dont give fuck flying pigs if you do or dont support Venus and Serena wholeheartedly/un-wholeheartedly and stop trying to stereotype people into the 'bad Williams fans who cause trouble here', just because it seems you have run out of argument.
I said and i will still repeat it now, other players are very athlethic, Kim Clisters comes to my mind, Henin and Capriati follows. I have never heard any commentary that centers on their athlecthcism whereas in the case of Venus and Serena it is the case. In a society which has repeatedly insinuated that blacks are all brawn and no brain, you'd either have to extremely retarded or a big pretender not to notice the trend. According to you it is a compliment, no thank you.

One more thing, make your argument and if you cant, be matured enough to say you have run out of any, instead of pointing fingers at other people. That is very immature. Read my above post and tell me where in that post that causes trouble. Did i say anything that is not true? Counter my argument instead of that old line of 'Williams fans causing a lot of trouble'. It is as old as 'they can only hit hard'

CC
Nov 19th, 2002, 02:49 PM
Uh, oh. Things have taken a turn for the worse ...

Averylove
Nov 19th, 2002, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by servenrichie
orig. posted by nasty nick#2:

Oh yea!, nasty nick#2's signature is classic. I cant stop laughing.

But the best one is this:

Now that is really, really classic!

Now i wonder why he sits behind his monitor to type insults, instead of going out to hit hard and become rich and famous.
:fiery: when did jennifer Capriati become classy ? thats news to me Last Time I checked she was going to enroll in school to get some class :(

servenrichie
Nov 20th, 2002, 02:17 PM
Calm down Averylove. That was ironical :p :p

GoGoMaggie
Nov 20th, 2002, 04:19 PM
lol

GoGoMaggie
Feb 4th, 2003, 07:30 AM
the sisters again proved that they are far ahead of the rest.

tiger
Feb 4th, 2003, 07:31 AM
their power and will to do it!!

alex_nur
Feb 4th, 2003, 02:09 PM
I think what seperates them from other players: They are good in almost all the facets( server, power, athletiscism,etc)where as other players are the best in some aspect but lack in another. Also they have a killer instinct....how many times you see players waist break point after break point, match point after match point against the sisters?! But whenever the sisters get in that situation: BAM the door is closed on you! That is what separates them from others. They need only one opportunity to convert...they don't mess around!!

miranda_lou
Feb 4th, 2003, 02:46 PM
Really great post Brian. Intelligent and thoughtful, as usual.:kiss:

Now this . . .
Afrian Americans are very athletic people, we have always been athletic.

I'm African-American and I'm definitely NOT athletic and neither are MOST of us. Just because your skin color is darker doesn't make you "naturally athletic." It takes training, sacrifice, hard work AND athletic ability to make it in any sport. It's an insult to a Black athlete to assume that they just popped out of the womb and became a superstar. Michael Jordan didn't, Shaq didn't, Tiger didn't and neither did Venus and Serena. Saying that plays into the hands of the racist in this country.:mad: I remember a doctor who said, years ago, that Black runners could only run sprints because they didn't have the endurance to run marathons. That was before the Kenyans started winning EVERY marathon.:rolleyes: Stereotyping people can be dangerous, and embarrassing.:o

Venus and Serena are the best at what they do because they have worked very hard, with a wonderful coach, to become the best. Just like Chrissy, Martina and Steffi worked very hard to become the best. It's the same thing. Someday some other young girl will come along and be better than Venus and Serena. It's the nature of sport.

TeeRexx
Feb 4th, 2003, 03:03 PM
Thread answer:

About 1500 - 3500 points :)

GoGoMaggie
Feb 25th, 2003, 05:16 AM
Since probably Kim is the one that's closest to the sisters rankings wise, I would like to know what she needs to do dfferent or more to narrow the gap between her and the sisters.
I didn't see the match in which Venus whipped Kim in Belgium. Did Kim play as well as she did in the Aussie Open? I'm sure Venus played some good tennis even from her own standard considering the scorelines.
Capriati was holding an edge over Serena in 2001 and Serena turned it around last year and now it seems Jennifer is no match with Serena.. What specifically did Serena improve in her game to make such a dramatic improvement in her results??
She won the U.S. Open in '99 so I don't know if she's improved that much tennis skills wise.
If Jennifer could beat Serena more often lose to her back then, I feel like she can turn the table around again.... I think the difference is just the mental edge Serena holds..
As for Kim, I think she can beat Serena or Venus on a more consistent basis once she gets the confidence much needed to break the mental edge the sisters hold.... What do you think?

tennisjam
Feb 25th, 2003, 12:04 PM
Natural abilities, very good technique and that huge fighting spirit added to their almost natural self-confidence...

doloresc
Feb 25th, 2003, 12:18 PM
terrific post brian!! that's precisely how i feel about venus and serena.

Volcana
Feb 25th, 2003, 12:29 PM
gogomaggie - Serena won the US Open in 1999 on raw talent. She won the last four by playing tennis well. She beats Jenn and Lindsay and Venus consistently because she's so damn fast, and serves so well. It's just very, very hard to hit a winner past her. And now she doesn't give away matches with UEs.

As for what Kim needs, OFFENSE.

Kim is probably in Venus and Serena's class as a retriever, but far too many of her 'desperation' shots are purely defensive. She needs to be able to hit winners while stretched out wide. Which means going for the lines.

Serena is the ultimate answer to baseline power tennis. Right now, she can't be beaten from the baseline.

Kim movees well enough not to be trapped in that game, but if you run her around, sooner or later she'll send back a weak reply. THAT'S what has to stop. EVERY ball has to be hard, deep or otherwise present some difficulty. Those occasional weak returns are Kim's version of Venus' 2nd serve. It's a weakness Serena can DEPEND upon exploiting.

Sam L
Feb 25th, 2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by miranda_lou
I'm African-American and I'm definitely NOT athletic and neither are MOST of us. Just because your skin color is darker doesn't make you "naturally athletic." It takes training, sacrifice, hard work AND athletic ability to make it in any sport. It's an insult to a Black athlete to assume that they just popped out of the womb and became a superstar. Michael Jordan didn't, Shaq didn't, Tiger didn't and neither did Venus and Serena. Saying that plays into the hands of the racist in this country.:mad: I remember a doctor who said, years ago, that Black runners could only run sprints because they didn't have the endurance to run marathons. That was before the Kenyans started winning EVERY marathon.:rolleyes: Stereotyping people can be dangerous, and embarrassing.:o

Great post! :D

There was a thread in ATPWorld on this very topic. IMO, it's also insulting to people of other races (to say that blacks are naturally superior and that seriously they have no chance). I've always believed that people are individuals and what you can or can't do in life (sport or otherwise) will NEVER be defined by your race nor the colour of your skin.

Greenout
Feb 25th, 2003, 02:32 PM
Alot of people can hit hard. Alot of people can run
fast. What makes Venus and Serena greater than
the rest of the pack? It's the mental aspect. They rarely
ever "choke" or lose the overall battle. It's the confidence
and belief in finishing first. I suppose the best analogy
to Venus and Serena would be the sport of yachting.

At that top level of sailing(tennis) everyone will have
highend equipment. What set's the best from the
rest is the ability to improvise, and take command
of any situation that occurs. I've seen alot of matches
where Venus and Serena were truly at the end of
their wicks; but took it up another level to win. I
don't think it's their technique because all top pro's
have excellent technique despite what some cranky
tv commentators say during matches. Most players
are on tour because their technique is outstanding
compared to the weekender tennis player.

SerenaSlam
Feb 25th, 2003, 03:28 PM
to me you all are just a bucnh of dumb fucks, when you try to come in here and tell people what they say, and comment on their "opinons" like they "wrong". it is an opinion people, not a fact, so why are you all jumping down eachothers throats?

now to my reason, venus and serena are the best to me: (i.e. opinion is coming) beacuse how so many of the pros and commentators have put it really tells it like it is.

Like what Justine said:
"If the Williams sisters are not playing a tournament everyone smells a chance to win it. If they are playing it is different. It is hard to play against any player if Serena and Venus are not in the tournament because every player believes they have a chance." -- Justine Henin

that shows you there going into tournies, she knows she isn't going to win if the name "williams" is in the tournie. And also, Mary Carillo put it best, not only are they the best defensive players in the world, they are the best offensive players. This just another thing that seperates them from the tour. About power, i agree evryone can generate power, but can they handle the power? this is something else venus and serena have managed to do very well. Practicing with eachother and playing in the finals, they hit the ball so hard, they have really adjusted and are used to the hard hit balls. Lindsay D, and Capriait, they have power, but some of the shots venus or serena hit to them, they can't control or handle the pace, but when venus and serena are playing eachother, they are handling their paces. Just another reason to me. and the serves, Serena has the best serve, and im willing to say Lindsay D's. serve is better than venus, but its not good enough to be a force against Venus or Serena, so really its not that good against Venus or Serena, buts it works well against the rest of the tour. Another example of Venus and Serena adjusting is to their serves. They can handle the pace most of the time off their serves, so they really as you have seen don't have any problem returning the rest of the tours serves, that are a couple levels below the power they display.

These really are the reasons to me. Mainly the sisters are just much stronger than the rest of the tour. Many of the players say it, Kim, Justine, Monica, Lindsay (cappy will never admit) but they always say, "they are so strong" and that is really what it is. And when you add that to your game, it make a hell of a difference!

1jackson2001
Feb 25th, 2003, 03:52 PM
more power and technique...and now also the confidence and mental edge.

DunkMachine
Feb 25th, 2003, 03:59 PM
Whats seperates them from the rest? Hmmmmm let's see:

- intelligence
- skill
- strength
- stamina
- cash
- beauty
- dominance

And they black :p, nuff said.

Rae Q.
Feb 25th, 2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by DunkMachine
Whats seperates them from the rest? Hmmmmm let's see:

- intelligence
- skill
- strength
- stamina
- cash
- beauty
- dominance

And they black :p, nuff said.

CTFU! :D

I think what it comes down to is that Serena and Venus are good at many things. I know there are girls with better shots but when you look at the whole package and the self-confidence then Serena and Venus have them all beat. I totally love that they go into a tournament thinking "I know I can win this" which is a lot different from "If I make the quarters or the semi's I'll be happy". :)

DunkMachine
Feb 25th, 2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by DunkMachine
Whats seperates them from the rest? Hmmmmm let's see:

- intelligence
- skill
- strength
- stamina
- cash
- beauty
- dominance

And they black :p, nuff said.

Oh I forgot to mention confidence and mental resiliance.

btw. wtf does CTFU mean? :wavey:

Bright Red
Feb 25th, 2003, 07:42 PM
I think that what separates the Williams Sisters is their level of confidence combined with their talent combined with the fear other players have of them. This results in a virtuous cycle of a winning aura and reputation being fueled by the media which in turn helps them continue winning.

It takes a special sort of person to dethrone the players at the top who are benefiting from the momentum of winning. A player could be just as talented and still not be able to do it. I just hope that the momentum with the Sisters continue to be strong. I believe it will.

Serena y Monica
Feb 25th, 2003, 10:40 PM
Gandolph(sp)

Whether speaking english spanish french or gibberish...Volcano is right...u lied.

In english spanish french and yes even gibberish to avoid having lied you would have had to say something like...to paraphrase, or he as much as wrote, or in essence he wrote...etc.

Just another quick point...you also intimated (another good choice for you) that his assesement was wrong...when in fact you
both stated opinions...not facts.