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Morning Morgan
Jun 19th, 2011, 10:17 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/magazine/my-ex-gay-friend.html?hp

Just saw this article on NYtimes, and for some reason I'm just really fascinated, and I'm still in the process of gathering my thoughts about Michael.

So Disrespectful
Jun 19th, 2011, 11:48 AM
As the article mentions, most ex-gays acknowledge (indirectly) that they're still gay. This is certainly rare - a man not only denying his homosexual tendencies but professing sudden heterosexual attraction. Michael either hit his head, is in denial or was never gay to begin with. I suppose it's possible that he's a bisexual with internalised gay impulses, but would it really take that long to realise he was attracted to women? He just seems so conflicted and disturbed. I believe he has some deeper underlying issues relating to the death of his parents.

I hope he finds the validation he's looking for somewhere. :hug:

Whitehead's Boy
Jun 19th, 2011, 11:52 AM
He's just a very confused man who jumped from one extreme to another. I mean, from gay activist to praising Ann Coulter and writing columns for WND? LOL.

Considering how culturally powerful Christianity is in the US, from a statistical point of view, converts like him are to be expected. I don't think there is any deep explanation; lots of people are confused, have issues and end up believing the complete opposite of what they used to believe, because they find comfort in it.

young_gunner913
Jun 19th, 2011, 12:36 PM
I think we know where he'll ennd up in 10 years... Playing footsy in that public restrooms then blaming his wide stance for once he gets hauled off for solicitation.

Kworb
Jun 19th, 2011, 01:08 PM
Sad story. I agree he seems very conflicted, disturbed and traumatized, and is trying to find peace in religious extremism.

Morning Morgan
Jun 19th, 2011, 01:20 PM
One of the things that the article got me to think about was is it ok to become an ex-gay? Personally, I think it's a personal choice and it's not up to us to judge, but I can't help but feel that Michael became one via some very flawed reasoning. And also, some of the comments said how some people who turned straight got shunned by their gay friends, which got me thinking how upset would you be if your friend told you he's no longer gay? , Intriguing, because discrimination is the thing we're trying to fight against.

Alizé Molik
Jun 19th, 2011, 01:21 PM
He's just a very confused man who jumped from one extreme to another. I mean, from gay activist to praising Ann Coulter and writing columns for WND? LOL.

Considering how culturally powerful Christianity is in the US, from a statistical point of view, converts like him are to be expected. I don't think there is any deep explanation; lots of people are confused, have issues and end up believing the complete opposite of what they used to believe, because they find comfort in it.

That was what struck me as soon as I read he was "pouring over books" about queer theory and then he was pouring over books about religion. Clearly he as a personality has some trauma in his childhood (i.e. his parents death) that was triggered when he had that health scare.

I stole this from the comments section because it explains what I was trying to in a far superior way:

I believe all people are exceedingly complex and unknowable in our own ways, and I feel a great deal of compassion for this young man. However, it is never surprising to see what fear and panic can do to a person. For someone who, by all accounts, is incredibly well-educated and intellectually prolific, he is blind to his own frailties.

I suspect what's really going on is more related to fear, especially of death, and the existential doubt most of us have that comes with being human.

Death seems to have played a far more important role in shaping his identity than anything else, and the fear and panic associated with this--coupled with his own apparently deep-seated insecurities about himself--are leading him to ping-pong through life from absolute to absolute. Because he's so smart and high-functioning he can convince himself that each identity he assumes is the "right" one and that all others are fraudulent. It's how he justifies everything in his own mind and protects himself. His sexual orientation is not the real issue; it is a red herring that he identifies as such because it is so obviously his main preoccupation (and seems to have been for much of his life).

His response to a fear of death when faced with his own mortality (and having lived through the deaths of his parents at a very young age) is consistent with the responses many people have--they often become religious (I've seen it happen a lot, and to people who couldn't have been more secular and intellectual). But being religious and being gay presented incompatibility problems and issues of purity (and he comes across as being very much a theoretical purist). So out went his sexual orientation, because otherwise the death issue can't be dealt with satisfactorily in his own mind.

eck
Jun 19th, 2011, 02:30 PM
One of the things that the article got me to think about was is it ok to become an ex-gay? Personally, I think it's a personal choice and it's not up to us to judge, but I can't help but feel that Michael became one via some very flawed reasoning. And also, some of the comments said how some people who turned straight got shunned by their gay friends, which got me thinking how upset would you be if your friend told you he's no longer gay? , Intriguing, because discrimination is the thing we're trying to fight against.

I don't see why not :shrug:
It's quite disturbing how one decade ago he was the face of gay rights movement, and now he's somewhat condemning the gay community.

You would think an ex-gay would perhaps show some sort of empathy to some of the current gay youth and the stuggles that some may have, but he has totally turned 360.

miffedmax
Jun 19th, 2011, 03:42 PM
My brother went through this recently with one of his friends. Frankly, the guy is, IMHO, as gay as ever, but is paying this price to be accepted by his family. However, I'm proud to say my brother and my brother-in-law have maintained a relationship of sorts. It's a little more strained now, because the friend is a member of a very reactionary church, but he's had the courage to not turn his back on his friends, and they haven't turned their backs on him.

But it's still not really possible to be as close as it was when they were all openly gay.

Anyway, that's my indirect experience with this. Mostly I know cases of friends finally admitting they were gay after failed marriages or just being afraid to come out.

DaMamaJama87
Jun 20th, 2011, 02:44 AM
I love how everyone here claims to know this man better than he does himself. :lol: Fear is a terrible thing.

duhcity
Jun 20th, 2011, 03:19 AM
What an incredibly depressing article.

Pops Maellard
Jun 20th, 2011, 03:21 AM
I get mad reading these sorts of articles :mad:. Because this is what some of my family would have be do. I grew up in strict church as well.

moby
Jun 20th, 2011, 05:05 AM
Gay or "not", his life still completely revolves around his sexuality. Needs another interest.

Alizé Molik
Jun 20th, 2011, 06:02 AM
I love how everyone here claims to know this man better than he does himself. :lol: Fear is a terrible thing.

Especially when it informs all your opinions. ;)

Moveyourfeet
Jun 20th, 2011, 06:30 AM
Ah the ex-gay movement.
Yes, I met with several ex-gays, listened to several focus on the family tapes, exodus international meetings, you name it.

The stories I could tell...

Anyway, ex-gay is a fraud.

Level55
Jun 20th, 2011, 02:49 PM
It is just sad that people feel that they have to pretend to be someone they aren't.
One of my best friends is gay and he struggled for years because of his family :( They are disgusting, they tried to get him "cured".

Apoleb
Jun 20th, 2011, 06:24 PM
I could certainly see how someone could have discovered heterosexual tendencies within after being ignored or even repressed. This gay/straight categorization of people pushes them to go into a ready-made mold where it's just easier to define one's personality and to fit in within a group.

However, this guy seems to have turned (?) because of some homophobic thought processes which are all baloney.

Dave.
Jun 20th, 2011, 07:18 PM
I could certainly see how someone could have discovered heterosexual tendencies within after being ignored or even repressed. This gay/straight categorization of people pushes them to go into a ready-made mold where it's just easier to define one's personality and to fit in within a group.

However, this guy seems to have turned (?) because of some homophobic thought processes which are all baloney.


I agree, labels are more restricting than helpful in the long run. There was that Meredith Baxter person who came out saying she only even realised she was gay in her 50's once she'd had a same sex experience. It's plausible that some people don't realise their same sex attractions because it simply wouldn't enter their mind to consider it (as a result of labelling and general social attitudes/unawareness). Sort of like gay teenagers who have periods of heterosexual experiences, which is apparently quite common.

Sp!ffy
Jun 20th, 2011, 08:48 PM
I think the most disturbing thing from the article (for me) was when it brought up how many claim that their same-sex attraction is "often a result of a deficit of masculinity, usually caused by a fissure in the father-son bond". As a gay 17 year old myself, I often wonder if my homosexuality was congenital or the result of not having any father figures in my childhood. It's a scary thought and something I will never be able to know and because of this, I can't help but just have a hateful, yet sad, grudge against my father. Perhaps if he had been there to play ball with me or talk about girls with me or just be there more often...perhaps things could have been different.

Expat
Jun 21st, 2011, 12:19 AM
There is a larger than normal proportion of "out" gays who are from broken families. I would surmise that's because its easier to come out if you belong to a broken family because there's not much to lose. Guys like me who come from well established stable families find it harder to come out because "family values" are drilled into us from childhood and we have family/social reputations to maintain.
Your being gay has nothing to do with your father being in your life. I have a close relationship with my father and I am still gay.

PS:If a guy says he is bi, he is either too ashamed to call himself gay or is a straight guy who can't get good head from his girlfriend if he has one. If someone is genuinely bi, he will identify as straight.

DaMamaJama87
Jun 21st, 2011, 03:20 AM
Hello? I have to ask again. Why do you all think you can read that guy's (the one in the story) mind? He already said many times over that he is straight now and explained it very clearly. Somehow you think you know him better than he knows himself?

spencercarlos
Jun 21st, 2011, 03:39 AM
Hello? I have to ask again. Why do you all think you can read that guy's (the one in the story) mind? He already said many times over that he is straight now and explained it very clearly. Somehow you think you know him better than he knows himself?
Well his whole idea of how he "became" gay and how he "got himself out from being" gay is ridiculous.

Its not like you wake up one day and you say today i will be gay :rolleyes: Tomorrow i will be striaght..

He was probably Bi in the first place, and found himself more confortable being with a girlfriend in the end, and that is ok.

moby
Jun 21st, 2011, 04:24 AM
I think the most disturbing thing from the article (for me) was when it brought up how many claim that their same-sex attraction is "often a result of a deficit of masculinity, usually caused by a fissure in the father-son bond". As a gay 17 year old myself, I often wonder if my homosexuality was congenital or the result of not having any father figures in my childhood. It's a scary thought and something I will never be able to know and because of this, I can't help but just have a hateful, yet sad, grudge against my father. Perhaps if he had been there to play ball with me or talk about girls with me or just be there more often...perhaps things could have been different.If you go through the comments, there's a comment (by a psychologist? student? life guru?) which states that most men have some sort of fissure in the "father-son" bond anyway, and that's just part of the growing up process.

Anyway, you're only 17. (:lol:, I don't know if you're old enough to remember this joke/meme about your fave circa 2004/5).

You will think about being gay as less of an abnormality and more of a variation at some point. It doesn't matter if homosexuality is congenital, or the result of not having any father figures in your childhood, or being abused as a child, etc. etc. - because all of those causes and reasons have nothing to do with the abstract notion of homosexuality, they do not detract from the feelings one human being can have for another. There are often underlying psychological causes for why we do anything, and I doubt anyone will uncover the extent to which homosexuality is genetic in the near future. As an academic question, that is interesting - but it's hardly going to shed any light on how you should live your life. The simple fact is that gay people are, aside from that sexual preferences, just like straight ones; they are no more or less likely to cause harm to society. So what you have to do is just to examine what you can do with what you have right now. Are those feelings real? That is what really matters.

Ultimately, it's up for you to define what homosexuality can mean for yourself. You're here, you're queer (you seem confident even at 17), you're you.

moby
Jun 21st, 2011, 04:38 AM
Hello? I have to ask again. Why do you all think you can read that guy's (the one in the story) mind? He already said many times over that he is straight now and explained it very clearly. Somehow you think you know him better than he knows himself?Do you not think that this guy has some... psychological problems? What kind of radical gay activist bans people from saying the word "straight"? Oh I know, the kind who later has a midlife-crisis and does a 180 and becomes a radical Christian fundamentalist (but not before flirting with Mormonism and Buddhism). This is what I wrote to my friends over FB, although you can definitely find much better written variations on the same theme in the comment box over at NYT.


"he's sort of one of those people who need labels and boxes to be in so when one label/box doesn't work he has to find another one, possibly diametrically opposed. its like he has all this tension in him he needs resolved and he externalises it so that he can fight against something, when i think the better thing to do is to accept the presence of said tension. life is complicated.

anyway he's still "same-sex attracted" i'm sure and he fucked up cause this ben sounds like a hell of a keeper

btw i do believe that sexuality is somewhat fluid and i can see the case of a gay-identified person becoming straight-identified at some point but not in his case. he just seems to succumb easily (and gets addicted) to all this theoretical literature in search for an identity"

Kworb
Jun 21st, 2011, 08:58 AM
I could certainly see how someone could have discovered heterosexual tendencies within after being ignored or even repressed. This gay/straight categorization of people pushes them to go into a ready-made mold where it's just easier to define one's personality and to fit in within a group.

However, this guy seems to have turned (?) because of some homophobic thought processes which are all baloney.
I don't think anyone would ignore or repress their heterosexuality. No one grows up wishing that they are homosexual. It's just something you eventually realize. The initial reaction is to wish it goes away. Not to embrace it and repress any heterosexual tendencies you might have.

Moveyourfeet
Jun 21st, 2011, 06:45 PM
I think the most disturbing thing from the article (for me) was when it brought up how many claim that their same-sex attraction is "often a result of a deficit of masculinity, usually caused by a fissure in the father-son bond"... I can't help but just have a hateful, yet sad, grudge against my father. Perhaps if he had been there to play ball with me or talk about girls with me or just be there more often...perhaps things could have been different.

This is one of the more egregiously incorrect theories as to causation of homosexuality which actually started in part due to Freud. It mixes up causality and effect. The father of an effeminate child tends to distance himself from the child and in turn the mother becomes over-protective.

Not to mention there are way too many homosexual men (as it becomes more and more acceptable) that have great relationships with their fathers for this theory to ring true.

Interestingly enough, this is what Freud had to say in response to a letter a woman wrote him asking him to 'cure' her gay son:

"Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation, it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc.). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime, and cruelty too....

"If [your son] is unhappy, neurotic, torn by conflicts, inhibited in his social life, analysis may bring him harmony, peace of mind, full efficiency whether he remains a homosexual or gets changed...."

No need to hate on your father. And all research into homosexuality as being congenital suggests your mother is more responsible than your father (at least for male homosexuality).

Moveyourfeet
Jun 21st, 2011, 06:48 PM
Hello? I have to ask again. Why do you all think you can read that guy's (the one in the story) mind? He already said many times over that he is straight now and explained it very clearly. Somehow you think you know him better than he knows himself?

Just munch on some carpet and get it over with already.

¤CharlDa¤
Jun 22nd, 2011, 03:04 AM
You would think an ex-gay would perhaps show some sort of empathy to some of the current gay youth and the stuggles that some may have, but he has totally turned 360.

Someone just did a Maria Sharapova!

Sam L
Jun 22nd, 2011, 01:14 PM
Obviously something must have happened to turn him like this. But this sort of thing isn't actually unique to sexuality. People who are atheists turn like this into Christian Fundamentalists also. Anyway, this is too sad and stupid to talk about.

Meanwhile, when did Ricky Martin come out? I didn't know that. I used to have the biggest crush on him. LOL

Helen Lawson
Jun 23rd, 2011, 01:27 AM
The point the article omits is that he met Neely O'Hara who spoke the immortal line, "Ted Casablanca is NOT a FAG, and I'm the dame who can prove it!"

Very odd story, but if it works for this guy, no problem with me.

DaMamaJama87
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:13 AM
I saw an episode of an MTV show recently about two people struggling with same-sex temptations. Both have got over it and are happy today.

http://remotecontrol.mtv.com/2011/07/14/true-life-kevin-straight-ministry-program/

Tonight's "True Life" explored the stories of Kevin and Melanie, two young adults who changed their sexual identities because of the pressure they felt from their families. We had an opportunity to check in with them to find out how they've been progressing since we stopped taping--take a look at the follow-up Q&As below:

MELANIE
Are you dating men or women right now?
Since the show I haven't been dating that much. School and work consume most of my time, but when I do date, it's with men only. I am interested in dating women, I just haven't positioned myself to do so.

How is your relationship with your mother lately?
Our relationship has gotten so much better since the show, maybe because it gave us both a safe environment to speak our true feelings and the chance to not only talk about it, but to listen to one another.

Do you feel bad about how things went with Reinaldo?
Reinaldo and I are no longer friends, but there are no hard feelings; it was time for us both to move on. I wish and hope nothing but the best for him.

Did you enjoy filming with MTV?
At times it was unnerving because I feared how viewers would see me. So many people knew about the taping and it made me pretty well-known in my community. I thank MTV for giving me this opportunity to tell my story as best as I could.

KEVIN
How is life treating you since filming ended?
Life has been amazing! I am starting a ministry program at my church to support those who have felt broken, either sexually or in relationships. This program will deal mostly with those who have same-sex attraction, have been affected by molestation, have been affected by damaging relationships or for those who have sexual addictions.

Do you still find yourself being attracted to men?
I see the attractiveness of men, yes. But I no longer lust after them. I just look at them as friends.

Have you gone on any dates with women?
Between work, school and my ministry program, I have not had much time for dates! But I hope to soon. I'm just waiting until I am fully ready so I don't hurt myself or the girl.

Do you think the changes that you're trying to make are possible for other people in your situation?
I believe it is possible, but you have to make that decision. The scriptures tell us that, "You can do all things through HIM who gives you strength." God never promises a bed of roses or a "peachy" life. But He does promise us that if we believe in Him and put our trust in Him, He will carry us through those tough times, even making the choice to seek healing from our brokenness.

Are you glad you decided to share your story with our viewers?
Overjoyed! It was a blast getting to know the crew and share my story. I used the time to evaluate where I am in my life and things that I need to keep working on

Novichok
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:36 AM
I saw an episode of an MTV show recently about two people struggling with same-sex temptations. Both have got over it and are happy today.

http://remotecontrol.mtv.com/2011/07/14/true-life-kevin-straight-ministry-program/

You are really obsessed with gay people.:lol: Even if those people were really gay(not bisexual) and are straight and happy now, it doesn't mean that all gay people can change like they did. Whether something is a choice or not is not important in determining morality or immorality.

delicatecutter
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:43 AM
I saw the episode. I feel so sorry for the guy. He should just enter the priesthood already. He will never be able to date a woman. I feel so angry at religion that forces these weak-willed people to think there is something wrong with them. And their parents are doing no favors at all. Gut-wrenching.

Novichok
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:50 AM
I saw the episode. I feel so sorry for the guy. He should just enter the priesthood already. He will never be able to date a woman. I feel so angry at religion that forces these weak-willed people to think there is something wrong with them. And their parents are doing no favors at all. Gut-wrenching.

Yeah it's very sad. You'd think that adult men and women, especially with the advent of the Internet, would know that there's nothing wrong with them. I'm glad I dropped that way of thinking back in the 6th grade.

Solitaire
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:56 AM
You are really obsessed with gay people.:lol:.

Homosexuality isn't a problem it's the obsession heterosexuals have with that's the problem. ;)

Morning Morgan
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:34 AM
Yeah, and DajaMamaJamama, exceptions do not make the norm. Finding exceptions does not mean it is the rule, a fallacy that you should get into your thick skull ASAP.

DaMamaJama87
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:41 AM
Yeah, and DajaMamaJamama, exceptions do not make the norm. Finding exceptions does not mean it is the rule, a fallacy that you should get into your thick skull ASAP.

Well, there are several cases listed in this thread already. How can you be sure they are the exceptions? Do you have evidence that most people who try to change are unable to?

Morning Morgan
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:49 AM
You want to take a poll? I can take you on that. I dare you.

And I'm gay, have gay friends, am aware of the gay movement, and in general just much more well-informed about gay issues, rights and demographics than you. You want to come onto me suggesting that YOU have more evidence than me? Have you seen the footage of the joy and jubilation of the gay community in NYC when gay marriage was legalized? For every one of your so called happy individuals who "converted" to heterosexuality (hey they may be, who am I to judge), I can definitely find ten or more people who are happy with their own sexuality, and hold the same aspiration as any straight person: to find love and spend the rest of their lives with someone they care for, and to grow old together.

You hold on to your tenets of religion because it brings meaning to your life. I'm totally fine with that. But when you keep overstepping the boundaries and try to bring YOUR meaning and impose it on us, and consistently try to undermine what we view as meaningful in our lives, you have crossed the line missy. Don't mess with us.

DaMamaJama87
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:56 AM
Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

Novichok
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:57 AM
Well, there are several cases listed in this thread already. How can you be sure they are the exceptions? Do you have evidence that most people who try to change are unable to?

Do you have evidence that most people who try to change are able to? Why do you feel that being straight is better than being gay?

Solitaire
Jul 19th, 2011, 04:58 AM
DaMamaJama-Do you feel that your sexuality can be changed through the same means? I feel any straight/gay person can be trained to sleep with anyone but I don't believe ones core sexuality can be changed.

moby
Jul 19th, 2011, 05:33 AM
I saw an episode of an MTV show recently about two people struggling with same-sex temptations. Both have got over it and are happy today.

http://remotecontrol.mtv.com/2011/07/14/true-life-kevin-straight-ministry-program/I chuckled when I read that both Mel and Kev are too "busy" to pursue relationships now. Somehow they weren't busy when they were gay. Oh wells. :oh:
In any case, neither of them claim to have "gotten over" their same-sex temptations as you claim. They just no longer act on them.

Well, there are several cases listed in this thread already. How can you be sure they are the exceptions? Do you have evidence that most people who try to change are unable to?There is indeed no evidence for that. What there is evidence for though, is that this changing-of-sexuality seems to be a full-time project and so-called ex-gays have their lives revolve around it. On the other hand, those of us with no hang-ups invest our energy in studies, work, helping the community, and a love which - surprising as it may seem to you - is no less real than other forms of love out there. Personally I think the latter is a more worthy and productive use of time, but what do I know?

Here's an ex-ex-gay site for you: http://beyondexgay.com/

Moveyourfeet
Jul 19th, 2011, 06:30 AM
Let's not be too harsh on DaMamaJama. She's going through some things and really needs our support.

DaMama, I found a resource that will really get you up to speed:

http://www.girldates.com/happy_lesbian1.jpg

You're welcome.

Pump-it-UP
Jul 19th, 2011, 12:12 PM
This thread... :facepalm:

Sammo
Jul 19th, 2011, 03:42 PM
Extremism is weird, in both ways... :unsure: Extremist Christianism wants you not to have sex until you're married and then don't use condoms and have 8 children, Extremism Gayism (or whatever I'm not in the mood to find a proper translation) wants you to live a shit of a life with no responsabilities and they turn something acceptable (I don't have any problem at other men loving each other, it's their business) into something nasty.

Novichok
Jul 19th, 2011, 06:39 PM
Extremism is weird, in both ways... :unsure: Extremist Christianism wants you not to have sex until you're married and then don't use condoms and have 8 children, Extremism Gayism (or whatever I'm not in the mood to find a proper translation) wants you to live a shit of a life with no responsabilities and they turn something acceptable (I don't have any problem at other men loving each other, it's their business) into something nasty.

What the hell is Extremism Gayism? I don't get it.:lol:

Apoleb
Jul 19th, 2011, 06:43 PM
If these people are happy with their lives, who cares?

It's just wrong to impose this view on those homos who are living their homosexual life and are also happy with it.

Kworb
Jul 20th, 2011, 02:10 AM
If these people are happy with their lives, who cares?

It's just wrong to impose this view on those homos who are living their homosexual life and are also happy with it.

It would be no problem if they become ex-gay in peace. If they want to bottle up their feelings then by all means go ahead. But the problem is that these people actively promote or are used to promote the ex-gay movement. And there are many innocent teenage gays forced to enter these programs because parents are led to believe that it works. And these gays often become mentally scarred for life. That's something we can't tolerate.

Sammo
Jul 20th, 2011, 02:41 AM
What the hell is Extremism Gayism? I don't get it.:lol:

Queers, it's easier to say it that way. They're mentally insane people.

homogenius
Jul 20th, 2011, 02:48 AM
this thread is depressing (and DaVavaJayjay needs help)

Solitaire
Jul 20th, 2011, 02:52 AM
It would be no problem if they become ex-gay in peace. If they want to bottle up their feelings then by all means go ahead. But the problem is that these people actively promote or are used to promote the ex-gay movement. And there are many innocent teenage gays forced to enter these programs because parents are led to believe that it works. And these gays often become mentally scarred for life. That's something we can't tolerate.

Not to mention the high number of gay teens killing themselves over stuff like this. :sad:

Brett.
Aug 8th, 2011, 07:24 AM
Queers, it's easier to say it that way. They're mentally insane people.

Do you think Carl Kressley is mentally insane?
Do you think Neil Patrick Harris is mentally insane?
Do you think Anderson Cooper is mentally insane?
Do you think Amelie Mauresmo is mentally insane?
Do you think Elton John is mentally insane?
Do you think George Michael is mentally insane?
What about Ricky Martin?

The list could goes on on on on and on!

OMG!!! They are mentally fucking INSANE! /sarcasm\ :weirdo: