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View Full Version : Why aren't you speakng English? It's insulting.


The Witch-king
Jun 18th, 2011, 08:42 PM
215f-6965Ls

LoveFifteen
Jun 18th, 2011, 08:58 PM
Bitter old white people!!!! :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

The future of the Republican party!!!! :inlove: :inlove: :inlove:

miffedmax
Jun 18th, 2011, 09:16 PM
http://cornedbeefhash.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/elena-dementieva-aussie10a.jpg?w=450

"I know right? English isn't my first language either!"

Albireo
Jun 19th, 2011, 12:48 AM
What a fucking shit-heel. Somebody give that sonofabitch a cockpunch.

JN
Jun 19th, 2011, 02:22 PM
Bitter old white people!!!! :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

The future of the Republican party!!!! :inlove: :inlove: :inlove:

The future of the Republican party??? :confused: Look around you, that future is here now!

young_gunner913
Jun 19th, 2011, 03:15 PM
Gotta love Teksus. :worship:

pov
Jun 19th, 2011, 03:18 PM
Wikipedia:
"The up to 1.8 billion overall speakers for the English language is a widely accepted figure, The primary language of Britain, Canada, the USA, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, and various Caribbean and Pacific island nations, it is also an official language of India, the Philippines, and many sub-Saharan African countries. It is the most widely spoken language in the world, and the most widely taught foreign language"

miffedmax
Jun 19th, 2011, 04:10 PM
There were German and Czech language newspapers published in Central Texas up until World War II. Study after study has confirmed that Hispanic immigrants follow the same patterns of learning English as previous immigrants: the first generation speaks English poorly or not at all. Second generation is bilingual. Third generation speaks English only.

Which in some ways is too bad, since I think it would be cool to speak French or German.

young_gunner913
Jun 19th, 2011, 04:18 PM
There were German and Czech language newspapers published in Central Texas up until World War II. Study after study has confirmed that Hispanic immigrants follow the same patterns of learning English as previous immigrants: the first generation speaks English poorly or not at all. Second generation is bilingual. Third generation speaks English only.

Which in some ways is too bad, since I think it would be cool to speak French or German.

Hmmmm that's very intresting. In my family and a lot of other Mexican families I know, nearly everyone speaks Spainish reguardless of the generation. Hell, my 4-5 year old cousins speak Spainish a hell of a lot better than I do. :lol:

égalité
Jun 19th, 2011, 04:37 PM
Why are you a miserable old racist? It's insulting! :hearts:


Wikipedia:
"The up to 1.8 billion overall speakers for the English language is a widely accepted figure, The primary language of Britain, Canada, the USA, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, and various Caribbean and Pacific island nations, it is also an official language of India, the Philippines, and many sub-Saharan African countries. It is the most widely spoken language in the world, and the most widely taught foreign language"

Interesting. :oh: Why?

Specter
Jun 19th, 2011, 04:52 PM
Which in some ways is too bad, since I think it would be cool to speak French or German.

Good luck with that. - Viel Erfolg!

c87qE9rHbWM





Just kidding. ;) But German Kati is hot. :hearts:

LoveFifteen
Jun 19th, 2011, 04:54 PM
The future of the Republican party??? :confused: Look around you, that future is here now!

I was being ironic. Old people can't really be the future of anything, but this dying demographic is what Republicans are trying to appeal to most of all.

quote unquote
Jun 19th, 2011, 06:08 PM
yes i agree

23 years in a country and you cant speak the lingo its insulting

miffedmax
Jun 19th, 2011, 07:53 PM
Hmmmm that's very intresting. In my family and a lot of other Mexican families I know, nearly everyone speaks Spainish reguardless of the generation. Hell, my 4-5 year old cousins speak Spainish a hell of a lot better than I do. :lol:

Well, there are always exceptions, and some of it depends on where you live. Families that stay in heavily Spanish speaking communities tend to speak Spanish or be bilingual longer (just like German speakers who read those German papers for 100 years after the first German communities were set up in the then Republic of Texas). But the same is true of immigrants from Asia, or Europe, and far too many people like the old fart in the video act like this is a uniquely Hispanic issue.

I have some issues and problems with many aspects of illegal immigration, but demonizing people and supporting false stereotypes doesn't address or solve the matter in a way that benefits anyone.

young_gunner913
Jun 20th, 2011, 01:55 AM
Well, there are always exceptions, and some of it depends on where you live. Families that stay in heavily Spanish speaking communities tend to speak Spanish or be bilingual longer (just like German speakers who read those German papers for 100 years after the first German communities were set up in the then Republic of Texas). But the same is true of immigrants from Asia, or Europe, and far too many people like the old fart in the video act like this is a uniquely Hispanic issue.

I have some issues and problems with many aspects of illegal immigration, but demonizing people and supporting false stereotypes doesn't address or solve the matter in a way that benefits anyone.

So basically, California? :lol:

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2011, 02:03 AM
Or Texas. The SE I would think. That used to be Mexico. ;)

Jarl_02
Jun 20th, 2011, 02:38 AM
yes i agree

23 years in a country and you cant speak the lingo its insulting

Do you even know what you're talking about? The BIG BIG BIG majority of the illegal inmigrants that goes to USA don't have a huge educational background so learning a new language is quite difficult, that means that they speak a very poor english but they DO get understood and understand everything in english. He himself said that he speaks english but becuase he was nervous of doing that, he decided to use a tranlator.

I live in Venezuela and here we have a LOT of a chinese people and even though they live in Venezuela since several years ago, they speak a crappy spanish but "that's not insulting" and my german teacher has lived here since 40 years ago and he spanish isn't very good and i don't think that's insulting either.

My aunts and uncles who live in USA speak a very bad english, but their sons speak a perfect english, even better than their spanish.

I really fear for the future of USA if this kind of people keep beeing in the government

DaMamaJama87
Jun 20th, 2011, 02:42 AM
Sorry, what's wrong with pointing out that someone choosing to use a translator even though he can speak English fine is insulting? He is in the US is he not? They speak English there do they not? The man complaining in the video probably has to pay for the illegal immigrant's translator through his taxes while the illegal immigrant contributes nothing to the IRS.

Jarl_02
Jun 20th, 2011, 02:53 AM
Sorry, what's wrong with pointing out that someone choosing to use a translator even though he can speak English fine is insulting? He is in the US is he not? They speak English there do they not? The man complaining in the video probably has to pay for the illegal immigrant's translator through his taxes while the illegal immigrant contributes nothing to the IRS.

And don't you think that his translator is being payed even though he has to translate this man or not? And don't you think that this illegal immigrant have to pay taxes as well therefore giving money to the government? please correct me if I'm wrong

Mary Cherry.
Jun 20th, 2011, 03:04 AM
Heck, I'm English and I don't even speak English.

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2011, 03:14 AM
Heck, I'm English and I don't even speak English.

What do you speak, then? :unsure:

Mary Cherry.
Jun 20th, 2011, 03:28 AM
What do you speak, then? :unsure:

Yorkshire.

Halardfan
Jun 20th, 2011, 03:50 AM
More generally, I do think, as a general principle it's healthy for society for it's citizens to make a sincere effort to learn the primary language of the country they are in.

I'm at the very beginning of living in Japan after coming from England. My Japanese is limited, and only elementary level. But I enrolled on a free Japanese course within days of arrival. Such a course will never make me fluent, but it's important for all sorts of reasons to make efforts to improve.

It will improve my job prospects, improve my relationship with the society around me, and it's fun too.

I just wish I was better at it.

DaMamaJama87
Jun 20th, 2011, 03:57 AM
And don't you think that his translator is being payed even though he has to translate this man or not? And don't you think that this illegal immigrant have to pay taxes as well therefore giving money to the government? please correct me if I'm wrong

Illegal immigrants don't pay their fair share of taxes. That's part of what makes their status illegal in the first place. They don't have a social security number and get paid under the table. Their translation services are paid for by legal American taxpayers.

Jarl_02
Jun 20th, 2011, 04:37 AM
More generally, I do think, as a general principle it's healthy for society for it's citizens to make a sincere effort to learn the primary language of the country they are in.

I'm at the very beginning of living in Japan after coming from England. My Japanese is limited, and only elementary level. But I enrolled on a free Japanese course within days of arrival. Such a course will never make me fluent, but it's important for all sorts of reasons to make efforts to improve.

It will improve my job prospects, improve my relationship with the society around me, and it's fun too.

I just wish I was better at it.

I'm pretty sure you have the money to move to Japan and do whatever you're doing, but these people who are immagrating to USA don't have the time nor the money, becuase their first priority is to do something to get money and they DO learn english, they will never be as fluent as an american but they DO speak english, at least all the ones i've met

Illegal immigrants don't pay their fair share of taxes. That's part of what makes their status illegal in the first place. They don't have a social security number and get paid under the table. Their translation services are paid for by legal American taxpayers.

So the taxes that they pay when they buy something or the taxes I pay when I go as a tourist are used on what?

So according to your logic, that translation is being payed by legal taxpayers, when I go to the US I have to pay taxes which are going to the Government and they do what they need to do with their money, becuase last time I checked they don't refund me the taxes, so I'm also paying for that translation

Halardfan
Jun 20th, 2011, 04:53 AM
I'm pretty sure you have the money to move to Japan and do whatever you're doing, but these people who are immagrating to USA don't have the time nor the money, becuase their first priority is to do something to get money and they DO learn english, they will never be as fluent as an american but they DO speak english, at least all the ones i've met



So the taxes that they pay when they buy something or the taxes I pay when I go as a tourist are used on what?

So according to your logic, that translation is being payed by legal taxpayers, when I go to the US I have to pay taxes which are going to the Government and they do what they need to do with their money, becuase last time I checked they don't refund me the taxes, so I'm also paying for that translation

Some people absolutely make a sincere effort to learn the language of the country in which they find themselves, and some sadly do not.

For example, many Brits people who go to live in Spain, cut themselves off from the Spanish population, partly through an unwillingness to improve their Spanish, partly through a desire to live in communities where they are surrounded by fellow Brits, and stores and bars that sell British stuff.

My view is simply that it would be better for Spain and better for the Brits themselves, for the British immigrants to embrace the community they are in, and make reasonable efforts to improve their Spanish and to integrate. That's the broad principle that I'd apply whatever the country, wherever the immigrant originated. It shouldn't be seen as some kind of punishment to learn the host country's language, rather an exciting chance to open new doors.

I think free classes offered to all to a basic level can be a win-win situation.

DaMamaJama87
Jun 20th, 2011, 05:00 AM
I'm pretty sure you have the money to move to Japan and do whatever you're doing, but these people who are immagrating to USA don't have the time nor the money, becuase their first priority is to do something to get money and they DO learn english, they will never be as fluent as an american but they DO speak english, at least all the ones i've met



Clearly the person in this video also speaks English. That is what makes his insistence on speaking only in Spanish insulting.



So the taxes that they pay when they buy something or the taxes I pay when I go as a tourist are used on what?

So according to your logic, that translation is being payed by legal taxpayers, when I go to the US I have to pay taxes which are going to the Government and they do what they need to do with their money, becuase last time I checked they don't refund me the taxes, so I'm also paying for that translation

You don't pay American income tax when you go to the US. You are obviously very pro-illegal immigration but look at the problems it causes. If you want to enter the US, do it legally, there are many ways to do it. Don't come over covertly and then take advantage of services provided by the taxes of legal immigrants.

Jarl_02
Jun 20th, 2011, 05:02 AM
Some people absolutely make a sincere effort to learn the language of the country in which they find themselves, and some sadly do not.

For example, many Brits people who go to live in Spain, cut themselves off from the Spanish population, partly through an unwillingness to improve their Spanish, partly through a desire to live in communities where they are surrounded by fellow Brits, and stores and bars that sell British stuff.

My view is simply that it would be better for Spain and better for the Brits themselves, for the British immigrants to embrace the community they are in, and make reasonable efforts to improve their Spanish and to integrate. That's the broad principle that I'd apply whatever the country, wherever the immigrant originated. It shouldn't be seen as some kind of punishment to learn the host country's language, rather an exciting chance to open new doors.

I think free classes offered to all to a basic level can be a win-win situation.

But no one is saying they shouldn't learn english, have you met an hispanic illegal immigrant? I have and they do try their best to learn a good english (at least the ones I've met) they will never speak english very good but they do try, they understand and get understood.

I don't know your status, where you live or where you come from... but for us latin american people being around other latins make our lives way easier. Most americans don't understand that our people are leaving becuase our countries suck and they're going after a better life where they could raise their children better and of course not giving any problems to the USA, but imagine yourself living in a foreign country, not speaking the language very well and a lot of people are hostile just becuase you're latin, of course you're gonna try to be around latin people.

I can't only speak from my family situation becuase that's the one I know, but many americans don't really understand what is like to being an illegal immigrant, they only focus on the "not paying taxes" part and don't really understand that.

In a week I'm moving to Germany and before that I've learnt a proper german and been in Germany before, I'm getting used to the german culture but becuase I've had the time and the money to do so, those immigrant going to the USA don't

DaMamaJama87
Jun 20th, 2011, 05:02 AM
I think free classes offered to all to a basic level can be a win-win situation.

Why free classes? Don't the immigrants know what language is spoken in the place they're going to? Are Mexican illegals surprised to learn that English is spoken in the USA? Shouldn't they come more prepared, knowing that fact? Why should the government of the USA provide them with free services for deficiencies that they have by choice?

M2k
Jun 20th, 2011, 05:07 AM
Illegal immigrants don't pay their fair share of taxes. That's part of what makes their status illegal in the first place. They don't have a social security number and get paid under the table. Their translation services are paid for by legal American taxpayers.

Hu? :facepalm:

Actually, it may come as a surprise to you, but a lot of illegal immigrants actually have a valid SSN. The 70's and 80's where notorious for giving them like hotcakes.

Illegal immigrants have a history of working under a fake SSN as well. That's why many of them actually get paid with legal paychecks, with deductions from the government and all.

Illegal Immigrants also pay taxes through their purchasing power.

And what makes you think the translator was paid with money from a legal resident or US citizen? :o For all you know it could have come from the wages taken from some exploited illegal immigrant that picks fruits for a living.

Jarl_02
Jun 20th, 2011, 05:08 AM
You don't pay American income tax when you go to the US. You are obviously very pro-illegal immigration but look at the problems it causes. If you want to enter the US, do it legally, there are many ways to do it. Don't come over covertly and then take advantage of services provided by the taxes of legal immigrants.

But those taxes go somewhere or they just stay in bank?
I'm not "pro illegal immigration", I'm immagrating to another country and I'm going with a proper visa and with the right papers, I wouldn't suggest anyone to be an illegal immigrant becuase I know the consequences of it, but what angers me is that people like you don't understand the other point of view.


About the man in the video I'm sure he was very nervous for talking in front of those people and maybe if he would have spoken in english he would have made a mess, besides how do you know the guy speaking in english was a payed translator, maybe he was the man's son and was translating to his father...so maybe none translator was payed to begin with

Jarl_02
Jun 20th, 2011, 05:10 AM
Hu? :facepalm:

Actually, it may come as a surprise to you, but a lot of illegal immigrants actually have a valid SSN. The 70's and 80's where notorious for giving them like hotcakes.

Illegal immigrants have a history of working under a fake SSN as well. That's why many of them actually get paid with legal paychecks, with deductions from the government and all.

Illegal Immigrants also pay taxes through their purchasing power.

And what makes you think the translator was paid with money from a legal resident or US citizen? :o For all you know it could have come from the wages taken from some exploited illegal immigrant that picks fruits for a living.

Thanks for coming up with the fact I couldn't show :)

And like M2k said, a lot of immigrants work with fake SCN, that means they get the government deductios and they will never get any benefits of those becuase "they aren't legal"

M2k
Jun 20th, 2011, 05:29 AM
Thanks for coming up with the fact I couldn't show :)

And like M2k said, a lot of immigrants work with fake SSN, that means they get the government deductions and they will never get any benefits of those because "they aren't legal"

Don't get me wrong! I respect his/her point of view, but what I find insulting is the lack of information. I'm assuming DaMamaJama87 is Canadian ( he/she has the flag) , so maybe that's why he/she doesn't know squat about illegal Immigrants in the US (??) :shrug:

DaMamaJama87
Jun 20th, 2011, 06:10 AM
Hu? :facepalm:

Actually, it may come as a surprise to you, but a lot of illegal immigrants actually have a valid SSN. The 70's and 80's where notorious for giving them like hotcakes.

Illegal immigrants have a history of working under a fake SSN as well. That's why many of them actually get paid with legal paychecks, with deductions from the government and all.

Illegal Immigrants also pay taxes through their purchasing power.

And what makes you think the translator was paid with money from a legal resident or US citizen? :o For all you know it could have come from the wages taken from some exploited illegal immigrant that picks fruits for a living.

Ok, so some illegals have a social security number. Most still take advantage of the system and do not disclose their employment or their immigration status to the government.

DaMamaJama87
Jun 20th, 2011, 06:12 AM
About the man in the video I'm sure he was very nervous for talking in front of those people and maybe if he would have spoken in english he would have made a mess, besides how do you know the guy speaking in english was a payed translator, maybe he was the man's son and was translating to his father...so maybe none translator was payed to begin with

It's like if you sneaked into someone else's house without them knowing, and then started rearranging the furniture (that they paid for) into a way that suits you. That's not cool.

gentenaire
Jun 20th, 2011, 06:33 AM
What Halardfan said.
The senator in the video was maybe a little harsh, but an immigrant who still doesn't speak the language after 23 years is not exactly a good spokesman for the immigrant community.

Moveyourfeet
Jun 20th, 2011, 06:46 AM
Did anyone watch the video?

The man obviously can speak English, but he preferred to speak in Spanish since it was his first language and he was more comfortable delivering his testimonial in it.

How the fuck is that insulting???
Not surprised to see dahatefuljama in this thread. WTF do you know about illegal immigration in the US? Sit your misinformed ass down.

M2k
Jun 20th, 2011, 07:02 AM
Ok, so some illegals have a social security number. Most still take advantage of the system and do not disclose their employment or their immigration status to the government.


Not some...a lot of them. :facepalm: And do you know the government actually knows about those fake numbers? But you won't see them complaining about that. And why should they? It means more unclaimed money for the government. Hypocrisy of the highest order!

PhilePhile
Jun 20th, 2011, 07:26 AM
Huh? (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/huh)

EAYUuspQ6BY

ls4MDuBrXSI&NR=1

azdaja
Jun 20th, 2011, 09:26 AM
Some people absolutely make a sincere effort to learn the language of the country in which they find themselves, and some sadly do not.

For example, many Brits people who go to live in Spain, cut themselves off from the Spanish population, partly through an unwillingness to improve their Spanish, partly through a desire to live in communities where they are surrounded by fellow Brits, and stores and bars that sell British stuff.

My view is simply that it would be better for Spain and better for the Brits themselves, for the British immigrants to embrace the community they are in, and make reasonable efforts to improve their Spanish and to integrate. That's the broad principle that I'd apply whatever the country, wherever the immigrant originated. It shouldn't be seen as some kind of punishment to learn the host country's language, rather an exciting chance to open new doors.

I think free classes offered to all to a basic level can be a win-win situation.
that's not the same situation at all. i know of english people who live in austria and plain and simple have no intention of learning even basic german (which they franky don't need since everyone speaks english). however, if someone with turkish background doesn't learn german well enough they will get a lot of abuse. and it's not like you can't survive with (almost) just turkish here either, if you hang out with the turkish community or work in a turksih shop etc. not to mention that there is a huge difference between brits moving to spain for nice weather and latinos moving to the us almost just for survival and meeting plenty of people who are hostile to them there. if brits refuse to learn the language they can be accused of arrogance, latinos who decide to stay with the people who better understand their situation do it again out of necessity.

racism plays a huge role here and while plenty of people who complain about immigrants proclaim innocence and claim they only mean good the fact that they ignore this aspect of the problem is a sure sign of bad faith. ok, it can be a sign of ignorance, but once presented with this argument if you decide to ignore it you're being dishonest. i don't mean you in person, mind, i have no reason to accuse of this, i mean people in general and i'm afraid some people who posted on this thread as well.

other than that it's true that learning the language of the wider community is good for everyone involved.

miffedmax
Jun 20th, 2011, 12:55 PM
Clearly the person in this video also speaks English. That is what makes his insistence on speaking only in Spanish insulting.




You don't pay American income tax when you go to the US. You are obviously very pro-illegal immigration but look at the problems it causes. If you want to enter the US, do it legally, there are many ways to do it. Don't come over covertly and then take advantage of services provided by the taxes of legal immigrants.

About 9 million illegal immigrants (roughly 75%) filed income tax returns last year. Those who didn't pay taxes didn't because they didn't have high enough incomes to do so. The IRS does not share information with immigration and provides an alternative tax payer ID for workers without a social security number.

wayitis
Jun 20th, 2011, 02:56 PM
I must be missing something, but where does it say that the witness was an illegal immigrant? I find it hard to believe somehow that he would take the risk to attend a court hearing, especially in TX, for fear of deportation, if he were undocumented...

Jarl_02
Jun 20th, 2011, 03:00 PM
Not some...a lot of them. :facepalm: And do you know the government actually knows about those fake numbers? But you won't see them complaining about that. And why should they? It means more unclaimed money for the government. Hypocrisy of the highest order!

That's the thing, those fake numbers exist and the illegal immigrants pay taxes but they don't get any benefits from it, I mean, they shouldn't get benefits becuase they are illegals but they do pay taxes

miffedmax
Jun 20th, 2011, 03:54 PM
Yes. IRS statistics show in any given year 65% to 75% of illegal immigrants pay income taxes. All illegal immigrants pay property taxes (even if indirectly, through their rent), sales taxes, etc., yet many of them DO NOT collect refunds or social security, in effect overpaying into the system.

The claim that "most illegal immigrants don't pay taxes" is patently false and refuted by information from the IRS itself. In terms of tax dollars, the general consensus of most economic experts--as opposed to politicians pandering for votes--is that in terms of raw dollars, illegal immigrants contribute roughly as much or slightly more than they take out.

There is a certainly an argument to be made that illegal immigrants put a huge strain on certain portions of the public sector (e.g. education and health care) but some of that has to do with how we elect to spend the money we take in--and some of it has to do with illegal immigration. There's also much debate as to what effect they have on overall wage levels for Americans, and whether this is a good thing or a bad thing in terms of keeping us globally competitive.

égalité
Jun 20th, 2011, 04:35 PM
This whole "illegal immigrants don't pay taxes" shit obviously comes from misinformed people who automatically program everything they hear on Fox News into their brain without actually thinking about it or researching a reputable source to find out if it's true or not. :tape: As Max mentioned, most illegal immigrants pay taxes. And don't receive benefits.

Also, there's something seriously wrong with anyone who's offended by a person speaking a language they don't understand. :spit: Hundreds of other countries are happily multilingual. Why does anyone care who speaks English and who speaks Spanish? I don't understand. :banghead:

Halardfan
Jun 20th, 2011, 11:10 PM
This whole "illegal immigrants don't pay taxes" shit obviously comes from misinformed people who automatically program everything they hear on Fox News into their brain without actually thinking about it or researching a reputable source to find out if it's true or not. :tape: As Max mentioned, most illegal immigrants pay taxes. And don't receive benefits.

Also, there's something seriously wrong with anyone who's offended by a person speaking a language they don't understand. :spit: Hundreds of other countries are happily multilingual. Why does anyone care who speaks English and who speaks Spanish? I don't understand. :banghead:

I think integrated communities are the ideal, and that language barriers are something that can hamper that integration. Uniformity isn't the aim, I wouldn't want people to abandon their own culture, just to make sensible adaptation to the country they are in.

I recognize that some people might have agenda's against a particular immigrant group in a particular country...but that isn't where I'm coming from. My opinion is a general one that I'd hold whoever the immigrant is and whatever the country they are going to.

It's simply that it's in the interest of the immigrant and the host country that the immigrant makes an effort to attain a certain level of the host's language. In the long run, I think free courses provided by the host country would pay for themselves in helping more immigrants into the job market. I'm sure there would be plenty of volunteers to help teach such courses.

Albireo
Jun 21st, 2011, 02:52 AM
I think integrated communities are the ideal, and that language barriers are something that can hamper that integration. Uniformity isn't the aim, I would want people to abandon their own culture, just to make sensible adaptation to the country they are in.

I recognize that some people might have agenda's against a particular immigrant group in a particular country...but that isn't where I'm coming from. My opinion is a general one that I'd hold whoever the immigrant is and whatever the country they are going to.

It's simply that it's in the interest of the immigrant and the host country that the immigrant makes an effort to attain a certain level of the host's language. In the long run, I think free courses provided by the host country would pay for themselves in helping more immigrants into the job market. I'm sure there would be plenty of volunteers to help teach such courses.

ESL is a hugely profitable industry (doesn't pay much, though).

Ideally, yes, immigrants would learn the language of their "host" country. Ideal situations aren't possible for many. Many immigrants to the US from Spanish-speaking countries are of low literacy levels, which makes it much harder for them to learn a second language. Add to that the fact that it's easy to sequester oneself--or be sequestered by outside forces, such as employers--among fellow immigrants, where the L2 isn't needed, and it's easy to see the motivation for L2 learning fade. (Note the large communities of English-only ex-pat Americans in places like Prague and Kathmandu, doing exactly the same thing.) Throw in the fact that immigrants in the US often work 12-14 hour days (especially illegal immigrants, who are at the mercy of their employers), and it's not always feasible to find time pick up another language... especially if you're an adult, past the age of language adaptability.

One solution would be for the employers to provide ESL lessons, and to encourage it. But the employers rarely want to spring for such things, unless it's for executives; the Japanese auto plant in Ohio will pay big money for its brass to learn English, while the mining company in Arizona will make its "legal" employees pay up for their own English lessons (if any).* And which employees could better afford it?

In many cases, immigrants do know the language, to an extent; they may read or speak it enough to function independently. They just don't do it well enough to satisfy the xenophobes, or are uncomfortable speaking in more-demanding settings (as the guy in the video). Having lived and traveled in many non-English-speaking countries, I know how quickly one's limited command of the local language becomes more a hindrance than a help, but I've been rescued by the fact that it was always easy to find an English-speaking member of the local population to help out. Immigrants don't always have this, and it often leads to a reluctance to travel outside a circle of their fellow L1 speakers. Unfortunately, this is a natural and common occurrence.

Also, as miffedmax pointed out, the three-generation language shift is still the norm--the original immigrants may only speak L1, but their children are usually L1/L2 bilinguals, and their grandchildren are usually L1 in the host country's language. This, too, is a natural occurrence.

*Mrs. Albireo taught ESL in both scenarios.

DaMamaJama87
Jun 21st, 2011, 03:10 AM
I see a lot of desperate justifications in this thread. The man could speak English but chose to give testimony in Spanish. The other man was justified in being offended by this behaviour in the US.

miffedmax
Jun 21st, 2011, 03:12 AM
Most immigrants, illegal and legal, are keenly aware that to get ahead in the US it's essential to speak English.

I think one of the reasons there's an irrational panic is that the last great wave of immigrants to the US came from a wide variety of countries and spoke a wide number of languages--Polish, Italian, Swedish, Yiddish, German, etc.

This wave comes from a variety of nations, but they all speak one basic language--Spanish. (Of course, there are many dialects and variations, but to non-speakers, it all sounds the same).

I don't mean to sugarcoat things, because like I said the issue of illegal immigration puts huge demands on certain parts of the US public sector. But demonizing a group of people with misinformation doesn't do anything to help anyone or help come up with practicable solutions.

moby
Jun 21st, 2011, 05:17 AM
Did anyone watch the video?

The man obviously can speak English, but he preferred to speak in Spanish since it was his first language and he was more comfortable delivering his testimonial in it.

How the fuck is that insulting???
Not surprised to see dahatefuljama in this thread. WTF do you know about illegal immigration in the US? Sit your misinformed ass down.IKR. He was trying to do his best in court and that's why he spoke in his native language.

Incident reminds me of 2:05 - 3:05

fPDl2g8Upvk

égalité
Jun 21st, 2011, 05:46 AM
I see a lot of desperate justifications in this thread. The man could speak English but chose to give testimony in Spanish. The other man was justified in being offended by this behaviour in the US.

Spanish is spoke by 35 million people in the U.S. That is more than 10% of the population. The unwillingness of some English-speaking Americans to accept the the linguistic diversity that exists in this country is perplexing and strange (and racist). The man wanted to speak in his native language so he could express himself more clearly. He came with a translator. What's the problem?

Mistress of Evil
Jun 21st, 2011, 07:24 AM
I see a lot of desperate justifications in this thread. The man could speak English but chose to give testimony in Spanish. The other man was justified in being offended by this behaviour in the US.

Why bother posting :awww: this topic has nothing to do with gay people and their path str8 to hell. :shrug:

Expat
Jun 22nd, 2011, 07:15 AM
Yes. IRS statistics show in any given year 65% to 75% of illegal immigrants pay income taxes. All illegal immigrants pay property taxes (even if indirectly, through their rent), sales taxes, etc., yet many of them DO NOT collect refunds or social security, in effect overpaying into the system.

The claim that "most illegal immigrants don't pay taxes" is patently false and refuted by information from the IRS itself. In terms of tax dollars, the general consensus of most economic experts--as opposed to politicians pandering for votes--is that in terms of raw dollars, illegal immigrants contribute roughly as much or slightly more than they take out.

There is a certainly an argument to be made that illegal immigrants put a huge strain on certain portions of the public sector (e.g. education and health care) but some of that has to do with how we elect to spend the money we take in--and some of it has to do with illegal immigration. There's also much debate as to what effect they have on overall wage levels for Americans, and whether this is a good thing or a bad thing in terms of keeping us globally competitive.
The problem isn't illegal aliens. They are a net positive. The problem is the anchor babies that they have and we need to take care of because they have American citizenship. It's not so much as of an illegal immigrant problem as much as we have a anchor baby problem.

miffedmax
Jun 22nd, 2011, 12:24 PM
I see a lot of desperate justifications in this thread. The man could speak English but chose to give testimony in Spanish. The other man was justified in being offended by this behaviour in the US.

I see you saying a lot of stuff that simply wasn't true and getting called on it, so now you're trying to change the thrust of your argument and hope that nobody notices.