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View Full Version : Lance Armstrong: are there any believers yet at this point?


wayitis
May 21st, 2011, 12:44 AM
I always thought he doped, but this has dragged on for so long that at this point I really don't care about it anymore, it's become more of a personal issue for the Feds...it's been almost a decade since his last Tour de France win and nothing much will change in case he is found guilty, it's amazing how fast idols become irrelevant... is there anyone who still believes he's never doped?

CBS News) "60 Minutes" has learned that at least three of Lance Armstrong's former teammates - including one of his closest, George Hincapie - have told federal authorities they used banned substances and saw Armstrong use them as well.


The Scott Pelley team's investigation into Armstrong and the use of banned substances in pro cycling will be broadcast on "60 Minutes" this Sunday at 7 p.m. ET/PT.


Hincapie testified that he and Armstrong supplied each other with the endurance-boosting substance EPO and discussed having used another banned substance, testosterone, to prepare for races, "60 Minutes" has learned. Through his lawyer, Hincapie declined to be interviewed, citing the ongoing investigation.


Armstrong has steadfastly denied ever using banned substances.


Hincapie was a member of Armstrong's U.S. Postal Service-sponsored cycling team.


Another former member, Tyler Hamilton, has given "60 Minutes" an interview for Sunday's report in which he says he used EPO and saw Armstrong inject it, too, in preparation for races Armstrong won, including the sport's ultimate event, the Tour de France. Hamilton has also made these revelations to federal authorities.

Hamilton, one of Armstrong's closest teammates and a champion cyclist in his own right, had previously denied using banned substances. He came forward to reveal secrets he thought he would harbor for years after he was subpoenaed by the grand jury in the federal investigation and forced to testify. "[Armstrong] took what we all took...the majority of the peloton," Hamilton says, referring to the tight group of bicycles and their riders in a race. "There was EPO...testosterone...a blood transfusion," he tells Pelley.

Kworb
May 21st, 2011, 12:56 AM
There's really no reason to not believe Hincapie.

King Halep
May 21st, 2011, 01:15 AM
All of Lance's Tour de France main rivals used drugs but he was clean when he defeated them easily. His ex-teammates and staff are liars, every one of them has a grudge because they could not compare to him. He never failed a drug test and neither did Usain Bolt.

hablo
May 21st, 2011, 01:24 AM
Even Hincapie sold him out? :speakles:

Always thought Lance Armstrong was a cheat. :shrug:

cynicole
May 21st, 2011, 07:07 PM
I don't think it matters. I think the vast majority of his fans will believe him to the end... mostly because most of them (at least the ones I've come across in the 'States) don't even follow cycling or even follow sport enough to understand drug testing or how dopers dope.

hablo
May 21st, 2011, 07:43 PM
I don't think it matters. I think the vast majority of his fans will believe him to the end... mostly because most of them (at least the ones I've come across in the 'States) don't even follow cycling or even follow sport enough to understand drug testing or how dopers dope.

You're right in the US and Canada. . .

gentenaire
May 21st, 2011, 07:54 PM
At a certain point I think the large majority of the peloton was taking EPO. Lance wouldn't have been able to defeat the other riders who're on EPO, without taking the stuff himself.
But in the end, with all of them on it, he's still the best rider out there.

Bismarck.
May 21st, 2011, 08:24 PM
When it comes to cycling, may the best pharmacist win. :shrug:

pov
May 21st, 2011, 08:47 PM
He may have taken PEDs . . .or not. To me, it's irrelevant. He won. Over and over. There are many cyclists taking PEDs who haven't even won once.

*JR*
May 21st, 2011, 09:35 PM
....

The Belgians indirectly got sports doping caught out, via Jacques Rogge defeating Dick Pound (a Canuck) to succeed Juan Antonio Samaranch as President of the IOC about a decade ago. So Pound went and took ova the previously toothless WADA (which the former tennis Wild Child from Bulgaria can tell you all about) :help: and set up a system of "guilty until proven innocent, pardons available for ratting out one's supplier". ;)

wta_zuperfann
May 21st, 2011, 09:50 PM
Armstrong's critics are relieving their guilt by pointing the finger at him well after his career was over. But if they wished to further relieve their guilt and have greater credibility, all they need do is to return all the money they were paid when they cheated.

cynicole
May 22nd, 2011, 02:36 AM
Armstrong's critics are relieving their guilt by pointing the finger at him well after his career was over.

I think it's more of a case of an overzealous federal investigator wanting to catch high-profile athletes. As much as I don't like Armstrong, I'm more ticked off that my tax money is going into this. If you're caught doping, well, the punishments aren't terribly harsh. Big whup. But if you're caught lying to a grand jury / the feds, they'll throw you in jail.

If what's reported is true, I just don't understand why George Hincapie would've said anything. He could've stayed silent and refused to answer, no?

cynicole
May 22nd, 2011, 02:46 AM
At a certain point I think the large majority of the peloton was taking EPO.

I'm so cynical, I think the only people in the peloton NOT taking EPO were the ones who had adverse reactions to it.

Smitten
May 22nd, 2011, 03:01 AM
He doesn't have a stain on him. The receipts don't lie. They're just pressed that they doped but still flopped.

delicatecutter
May 22nd, 2011, 03:31 AM
I heard an interview from a journalist?/someone deeply involved in his camp who was his biggest fan but had come to the conclusion that he had used PED. So I'm inclined to believe him. :shrug: Not that I've cared about LA since he dumped poor Sheryl Crow.

gentenaire
May 22nd, 2011, 09:25 PM
Today's stage in the Giro took 7.5 hours for the winner, others were in the saddle today for 8.5 hours! That's just too much.
If they want to cut PED in cycling, they have to make the races more humane.

Super Dave
May 23rd, 2011, 02:26 PM
To see how close he was to death and how advanced the disease was (even into his brain)...just to survive was a miracle. Then to win 7 Tours...no. I simply can't imagine him not doping. I could be wrong, but I'd bet big bucks.

King Halep
May 23rd, 2011, 03:12 PM
Today's stage in the Giro took 7.5 hours for the winner, others were in the saddle today for 8.5 hours! That's just too much.
If they want to cut PED in cycling, they have to make the races more humane.


It was a huge stage and AC still looks so comfortable. He never seems to have a bad day.

Who wants to cut PED in cycling??

Have just read the indepth article of Landis telling all he knows. He reveals that UCI ignored positive tests from Lance while pursuing a dubious test result from himself. He apparently tested positive to testosterone at his Tour win when he was not even taking it that year. He raises the probability that UCI is protecting a few riders while pretending to clean up the sport. With all the American riders now agreeing with the claims he made before about Lance and his team, is it possible that Landis is also correct about the level of corruption in the sport?

cynicole
May 23rd, 2011, 04:13 PM
Have just read the indepth article of Landis telling all he knows. He reveals that UCI ignored positive tests from Lance while pursuing a dubious test result from himself. He apparently tested positive to testosterone at his Tour win when he was not even taking it that year. He raises the probability that UCI is protecting a few riders while pretending to clean up the sport. With all the American riders now agreeing with the claims he made before about Lance and his team, is it possible that Landis is also correct about the level of corruption in the sport?

I watched some of the "60 Minutes" report and it certainly looked like the UCI is dirty. The report seemed to say that the UCI didn't "ignore" Armstrong as much as it allowed U.S. Postal / Armstrong / Bruyneel special treatment and the opportunity to make deals and pay off whoever needed paying off. They facilitated bribery.

And I'm less ticked off about the U.S. government investigating this. It's really an investigation into the U.S. Postal team - which was sponsored with government money. It looks terrible if the government gave money to people who were procuring drugs, taking them over borders, lying about it, and paying off officials/organizations ("donations") with gov't money to make positive drug tests disappear. I mean, yeah, the government spends a lot of money doing this kind of crap in more important things than sports but this looks pretty bad if they let this all go and show that they condone it.

I don't really like the timing of this (though it's obvious why). There was a lot of "he said this; Lance said that" in the presentation and it's all still under investigation. They didn't go in-depth about paper trails or how they'd go about chasing the money to see where it ended up. They just waved a couple of documents around and connected them with too-coincidental actions that made them appear all too credible. In a few months they might actually be able to reveal things.

hablo
May 23rd, 2011, 05:14 PM
It was a huge stage and AC still looks so comfortable. He never seems to have a bad day.

Who wants to cut PED in cycling??

Have just read the indepth article of Landis telling all he knows. He reveals that UCI ignored positive tests from Lance while pursuing a dubious test result from himself. He apparently tested positive to testosterone at his Tour win when he was not even taking it that year. He raises the probability that UCI is protecting a few riders while pretending to clean up the sport. With all the American riders now agreeing with the claims he made before about Lance and his team, is it possible that Landis is also correct about the level of corruption in the sport?

If they didn't protect their stars it would discredit the whole sport. Pretty sure all the legends of the past were doping too. :lol::shrug:

It's probably not possible to compete in that sport without some kind of PED. The stages of the TDR are just too rigorous; it's ridiculous... :o

King Halep
May 23rd, 2011, 05:33 PM
It might be hard to make a completely clean sport. A lot of other sports also have their own drug problems. What I dont accept is the view expressed above that just because most of them are using, it justifies US Postal dominating the tour with their advanced doping and race tactics. I have the same problem now with Contador.

There is a level of performance which is plausible and then what goes beyond that is insulting the intelligence of the educated fans. Armstrong's winning the tour seven times and Contador's current domination suggest that they are using techniques beyond what the others are using. If you look at the mountain stages in the Giro, AC hardly looks tested in keeping everyone within his reach, he has unbelievable acceleration on the steepest climbs and he never seems to have a bad day. I like to watch races where its unpredictable and you dont already know the winner at the start. Whenever I see someone like Armstrong or Contador, who are equally strong at the disparate skills of climbing and time trialling, I call :bs: on them.

laschutz
May 23rd, 2011, 11:24 PM
the thing is when your famous for whatever reason, in this day of age in the year 2011, EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY COMES OUT NO MATTER WHAT! WHETHER WHILE YOUR ALIVE OR WHEN YOUR DEAD AND YOU CAN'T DEFEND YOURSELF! can't believe that famous people still think that they can get away with it somehow, someway (that is if they indeed have done wrong!)