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QuietPlease
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:08 PM
Career singles titles since 1968 (Open era):

167 Navratilova
154 Chris Evert
107 Steffi Graf
92 Margaret Court*
68 Goolagong
67 Billie Jean King*
55 Wade*
55 Davenport
53 Seles
43 Venus
43 Henin
43 Hingis
41 Clijsters
39 Serena
33 Conchita Martinez
30 Tracy Austin
29 Sanchez-Vicario
27 Mandlikova
27 Sabatini
25 Mauresmo
24 Sharapova
24 Novotna
21 Shriver

* Titles pre-open era not included.
Bold - active players

Active players:

43 Venus
41 Clijsters
39 Serena
24 Sharapova
18 Wozniacki
13 Kutznetsova
12 Safina
12 Jankovic
12 Zvonareva
11 Garrigues
10 Ivanovic
10 Petrova
9 Pennetta
8 Chakvetadze
8 Date Krumm
7 Azarenka

It will be interesting to see whether Venus, Kim or Serena ends up with the most titles when retired!

Players u/25:

24 Sharapova 19-4-1987
18 Wozniacki 11-7-1990
10 Ivanovic 6-11-1987
8 Chakvetadze 5-3-1987
7 Azarenka 31-7-1989
5 Kvitova 8-3-1990
5 A. Radwanska 6-3-1989
5 Szavay 29-12-1988
5 Peer 1-5-1987
5 Kirilenko 25-1-1987
4 Rezai 14-3-1987
4 Safarova 4-2-1987
3 Pavlyuchenkova 3-7-1991
3 Wickmayer 20-10-1989
3 Lisicki 22-09-1989
3 Krajicek 9-1-1989

The young ones. I considered to exclude those born in 87, somehow Sharapova and Ivanovic doesn't seem like the 'next generation'...

Edited: Things have happened since April. Serena has come back winning again. Patty has retired. Dinara has turned 25.

Miracle Worker
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:12 PM
I sit here and wait for Caroline's fans :dance:

Bismarck.
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:21 PM
I still find it incredible that Martina and Chris both have so many titles, especially since they played a large part of their careers in the same era. :worship:

Joelina
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:25 PM
Masha could have more if she wouldn´t loose all those last finals in Miami, Stanford, cincinnati :sad:

Stern
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:27 PM
Thank you OP. Could Venus win one more title to earn the 10th place?:tape:

young_gunner913
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:28 PM
Masha could have more if she wouldn´t loose all those last finals in Miami, Stanford, cincinnati :sad:

Don't forget Birmingham.

The Daviator
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:32 PM
Don't forget Birmingham.

:lol:

doomsday
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:38 PM
Masha could have more if she wouldn´t loose all those last finals in Miami, Stanford, cincinnati :sad:

To be fair, she should have won only Cincinnati.

ReboundAce
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:42 PM
To be fair, she should have won only Cincinnati.

Let's just say it was her worst year eveeeeeeer, it is amazing what she did in 2009 coming back playing for half a season ans still earning more money than she made throughout 2010

QuietPlease
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:45 PM
Masha could have more if she wouldn´t loose all those last finals in Miami, Stanford, cincinnati :sad:

All the others have lost finals too :shrug:

QuietPlease
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:53 PM
I still find it incredible that Martina and Chris both have so many titles, especially since they played a large part of their careers in the same era. :worship:

Yes amazing! There were a lot of tournaments back then, and they played a lot of them.

It wasn't unusual to play 80-90 matches a year, Martina played 100 a year on multiple occasions and that's not counting doubles :eek:

Just Do It
Apr 11th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Ah Jesus Christ, YES, we got it Caroline is amazing !!!

Sammo
Apr 11th, 2011, 04:35 PM
I already knew about Martina's 167 titles, but holy crap it's freakin insane!!

*Jool*
Apr 11th, 2011, 05:04 PM
I remember when Conchita was still top 10 :lol:
well, she's still top 15 , that's pretty good :)

Break My Rapture
Apr 11th, 2011, 05:15 PM
Another Wozniacki asskissing shrine thread.

C. W. Fields
Apr 11th, 2011, 05:33 PM
Ah, Martina N. And 177 doubles and 15 mixed doubles titles on top of that, the last one (a slam) won a month before her 50th birthday! There'll never be another player quite like her.
It'll always be a topic of discussion what's the most impressive: Navratilova's 167 titles, Graf's 22 slams or Evert's 90% career wins. :)

QuietPlease
Apr 11th, 2011, 06:03 PM
The young ones. But why u/25? Well I guess I included Sharapova because the list isn't all about my fave.
Still, there are quite many from 86/87 on the list. I suppose it would make sense to exclude them from the 'next generation'.

1986/87 excluded, and looking deeper into the young ones:

15 Wozniacki 11-7-1990
7 Azarenka 31-7-1989
5 Szavay 29-12-1988
4 A. Radwanska 6-3-1989
3 Pavlyuchenkova 3-7-1991
3 Kvitova 8-3-1990
3 Wickmayer 20-10-1989
3 Krajicek 9-1-1989
2 Paszek 6-12-1990
2 Kleybanova 15-7-1989
2 Dulgheru 30-5-1989
2 Rybarikova 4-10-1988
1 Sevastova 13-4-1990
1 Cirstea 7-4-1990
1 Cornet 22-1-1990
1 Lisicki 22-9-1989
1 Bacsinszky 8-6-1989
1 King 3-2-1989
1 Görges 2-11-1988
1 Makarova 7-6-1988

0 Cibulkova, Morita, Jovanovski, Kerber, Marino, Halep, Hercog, Rodina, Zhang, Larsson, Oudin, McHale, Pervak, Vandeweghe, Begu, Rus, Tatishvili, Navarro, Dolonts, Martic, Hampton, Govortsova, Pivovarova, Riske, Falconi, Doi, Watson, X. Han, Tsurenko, Nara, Chan, Chang, Panova, U. Radwanska, Diyas, Peers & Dentoni.
(The ones in WTA top 150).

No one from this list of youngsters have won a Slam. The youngest Slam winner is Ana Ivanovic, born November 6th 1987.

jrm
Apr 11th, 2011, 06:03 PM
where did AIMG got 9 titels :lol: all MM, i know

Break My Rapture
Apr 11th, 2011, 06:19 PM
1986/87 excluded, and looking deeper into the young ones:

15 Wozniacki 11-7-1990
7 Azarenka 31-7-1989
5 Szavay 29-12-1988
4 A. Radwanska 6-3-1989
3 Pavlyuchenkova 3-7-1991
3 Kvitova 8-3-1990
3 Wickmayer 20-10-1989
3 Krajicek 9-1-1989
2 Paszek 6-12-1990
2 Kleybanova 15-7-1989
2 Dulgheru 30-5-1989
2 Rybarikova 4-10-1988
1 Sevastova 13-4-1990
1 Cirstea 7-4-1990
1 Cornet 22-1-1990
1 Lisicki 22-9-1989
1 Bacsinszky 8-6-1989
1 King 3-2-1989
1 Görges 2-11-1988
1 Makarova 7-6-1988

0 Cibulkova, Morita, Jovanovski, Kerber, Marino, Halep, Hercog, Rodina, Zhang, Larsson, Oudin, McHale, Pervak, Vandeweghe, Begu, Rus, Tatishvili, Navarro, Dolonts, Martic, Hampton, Govortsova, Pivovarova, Riske, Falconi, Doi, Watson, X. Han, Tsurenko, Nara, Chan, Chang, Panova, U. Radwanska, Diyas, Peers & Dentoni.
(The ones in WTA top 150).

No one from this list of youngsters have won a Slam. The youngest Slam winner is Ana Ivanovic, born November 6th 1987.
Maria Sharapova was born April 19th in 1987.

Miracle Worker
Apr 11th, 2011, 06:25 PM
Maria Sharapova was born April 19th in 1987.

So she is older ;)

Hian
Apr 11th, 2011, 06:27 PM
Ninetta :hearts:

Break My Rapture
Apr 11th, 2011, 06:31 PM
So she is older ;)
:rolls:

I always mess up with this. :o

Ryusuke Tenma
Apr 11th, 2011, 07:51 PM
Another Wozniacki asskissing shrine thread.
How is it a Wozniacki ass-kissing thread? She isn't even on the first list and she only has 15 titles :confused:

Then again, the intelligence in the above post is very well explained by the below one :lol:
Maria Sharapova was born April 19th in 1987.
:spit: That makes her older :clap2:

Break My Rapture
Apr 11th, 2011, 07:56 PM
How is it a Wozniacki ass-kissing thread? She isn't even on the first list and she only has 15 titles :confused:
Since the list starts at 'career titles' but gets degraded to 'active players', to 'players under the age of 25', to 'excluding players born in 1986 or 1987' which leaves Wozniacki at the top of the list.
I guess it was too big a challenge for you to read everything first?

Craig.
Apr 11th, 2011, 07:59 PM
Wow, thought Maria'd be up higher on the list.

QuietPlease
Apr 11th, 2011, 09:46 PM
Since the list starts at 'career titles' but gets degraded to 'active players', to 'players under the age of 25', to 'excluding players born in 1986 or 1987' which leaves Wozniacki at the top of the list.
I guess it was too big a challenge for you to read everything first?

Well, if you read closely you'd see I did include 86/87 in the 'young guns' list in my first post to avoid any heat, but since I was blamed anyway, I thought I might as well exclude them from the other list on page 2.

I'd hardly call Sharapova and Safina bright new stars on tour anyway, which was the idea behind looking at the youngsters in the first place.

So this thread may be about Caroline, but it's certainly also about Maria, Venus, Evert, Navratilova and the rest of them!

MH0861
Apr 11th, 2011, 09:52 PM
Lindsay is the true MM Queen of the the last 2 decades! :worship: :worship:

Ryusuke Tenma
Apr 11th, 2011, 09:52 PM
Since the list starts at 'career titles' but gets degraded to 'active players', to 'players under the age of 25', to 'excluding players born in 1986 or 1987' which leaves Wozniacki at the top of the list.
I guess it was too big a challenge for you to read everything first?
But Sharapova is at the top of that list. Can't you read? :confused: Anyway, why would this thread be about Caroline when most of the post has other players with many more titles. You are just a typical Caroline hater who thinks every thread by Caro fans is about her :wavey: Bye bye! :wavey:

Olórin
Apr 11th, 2011, 09:59 PM
I've often wondered where Navratilova keeps all her trophies. I mean 300+ that's a lot of storage space :lol:

I read an article where Sampras said he keeps all his non-slam trophies in boxes in the garage or something. What a waste.

QuietPlease
Apr 11th, 2011, 09:59 PM
where did AIMG got 9 titels :lol: all MM, i know

Palermo x 4
Strasbourg x 3
Fes
Canberra

All international, tier 3 & 4 I believe. So yes MMs :lol:
All on clay but Canberra.

And none since May 2009 (Fes)

ReboundAce
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:06 PM
So she is older ;)

:lol::help:

ReboundAce
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:06 PM
Maria Sharapova was born April 19th in 1987.

:tape:

ReboundAce
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:09 PM
Palermo x 4
Strasbourg x 3
Fes
Canberra

All international, tier 3 & 4 I believe. So yes MMs :lol:
All on clay but Canberra.

And none since May 2009 (Fes)


What is MM anyway i'm kind of new so i have no idea, i know it is about the smaller tournament but the meaning?

Bismarck.
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:09 PM
:yawn: Does every GM thread now feature squabbles between Wozniacki and Sharapova fans?

Curcubeu
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:12 PM
What is MM anyway i'm kind of new so i have no idea, i know it is about the smaller tournament but the meaning?

MM = Mickey Mouse

deprecative description for smaller WTA events (220k or so) :)

LindsayRulz
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:12 PM
Lindsay is the true MM Queen of the the last 2 decades! :worship: :worship:

So many MM titles and yet so few Majors. :sobbing:

QuietPlease
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:18 PM
So many MM titles and yet so few Majors. :sobbing:

Yeah 3 Slams. I suppose she should have won a few more.
But eleven tier 1 + YEC + the Olympics :worship:

The Daviator
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:18 PM
So many MM titles and yet so few Majors. :sobbing:

Only one Tier IV though! :hearts:

ReboundAce
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:25 PM
MM = Mickey Mouse

deprecative description for smaller WTA events (220k or so) :)

haha, nice thanks anyway:kiss:

QuietPlease
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:25 PM
What is MM anyway i'm kind of new so i have no idea, i know it is about the smaller tournament but the meaning?

Some would claim all but the 4 Slams are Mickey Mouse tournaments. :rolleyes:

Personally I would say internationals (previously tier 3 & 4) are MMs.

I suppose I might accept regular Premiers (formerly tier 2) as MMs too, but calling tier 1 (Premier 5, Premier mandatory) MMs is plain stupid. :banghead:

ReboundAce
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:27 PM
Some would claim all but the 4 Slams are Mickey Mouse tournaments. :rolleyes:

Personally I would say internationals (previously tier 3 & 4) are MMs.

I suppose I might accept regular Premiers (formerly tier 2) as MMs too, but calling tier 1 (Premier 5, Premier mandatory) MMs is plain stupid. :banghead:

i agree totally it should be just for 220k like the one vika won now

QuietPlease
Apr 11th, 2011, 10:33 PM
i agree totally it should be just for 220k like the one vika won now
:yeah:

AcesHigh
Apr 11th, 2011, 11:37 PM
So many MM titles and yet so few Majors. :sobbing:

Tournaments are tournaments.

Davenport is one of the true all-time greats and at the end of the day, no one is going to nit-pick about what titles were Tier X

edificio
Apr 11th, 2011, 11:42 PM
I've often wondered where Navratilova keeps all her trophies. I mean 300+ that's a lot of storage space :lol:

I read an article where Sampras said he keeps all his non-slam trophies in boxes in the garage or something. What a waste.

He had them in a storage facility when he moved, but he said that was just temporary.

I bet Navratilova has many in storage or even donated some.

These lists are interesting. You have to think the Nav/Evert era was a bit dodgy and the two exceptional (which is true) to have won so many tourneys. Chris said as much in the booth at Charleston last week; there is just more depth these days.

Ryan
Apr 11th, 2011, 11:59 PM
How is it a Wozniacki ass-kissing thread? She isn't even on the first list and she only has 15 titles :confused:

Then again, the intelligence in the above post is very well explained by the below one :lol:

:spit: That makes her older :clap2:



:spit: Winner. :lol: :sobbing:

Ryan
Apr 12th, 2011, 12:00 AM
Can't believe how underrated Goolagong is! 7 Slams, 68 titles, wow. :bowdown:

QuietPlease
Apr 12th, 2011, 01:12 PM
Can't believe how underrated Goolagong is! 7 Slams, 68 titles, wow. :bowdown:

Yes amazing. I know she 'only' had two weeks as #1, but she took it from Chris Evert in 1976!

She finished 1976 as #2 - and discovered she was pregnant. Won 2 Slams as a mother.

Too bad she didn't make the career Grand Slam, missing the USO. She lost the USO final 4 years in a row! Talk about tough opponents: Margaret Court (73), Billie Jean King (74) and Chris Evert (75&76)!

bandabou
Apr 12th, 2011, 01:53 PM
It's amazing how Serena has carved such a legendary career out of just 37 titles.

QuietPlease
Apr 12th, 2011, 02:11 PM
Yeah 3 Slams. I suppose she should have won a few more.
But eleven tier 1 + YEC + the Olympics :worship:

Eleven tier 1 titles by Lindsay made me wonder how that list would look like:

Most Tier 1 titles 1988-2008 & Premier 5/Mandatory 2009-2011
(no tiers pre-1988 :shrug:)

Steffi Graf 18
Martina Hingis 17
Linday Davenport 11
Serena Williams 10
Justine Henin 10
Conchita Martinez 9
Monica Seles 9
Venus Williams 8
Kim Clijsters 7
Maria Sharapova 7
Jelena Jankovic 6
Amelie Mauresmo 6
Gabriela Sabatini 6
Aranxta Sanchez Vicario 6
Dinara Safina 5
Caroline Wozniacki 5
Mary Pierce 5
Ana Ivanovic 3
Martina Navratilova 3
Elena Dementieva 3
Iva Majoli 3
Victoria Azarenka 2
Daniela Hantuchova 2
Svetlana Kuznetsova 2
Nadia Petrova 2
Jelena Dokic 2
Jennifer Capriati 2
Magdelena Maleeva 2
Anastasia Myskina 2
Jana Novotna 2

Introduced in 1988 with just 2 tournaments (Miami & Berlin)
Expanded to 6 tournaments in 1990.
Expanded to 8 tournaments in 1993.
Expanded to 9 tournaments in 1997.
Expanded to 10 tournaments in 2004.
Reduced to 9 tournaments in 2008. (currently still 9)

This explains why Chris Evert for example has 0 and Martina Navratilova has just 3.
Steffi Graf would also have more if tier 1s were introduced earlier.

I was surprised Capriati and Kuznetsova has so few tier 1s compared to their Slam records!

petkoan
Apr 12th, 2011, 04:35 PM
Hingis is insane

QuietPlease
Apr 12th, 2011, 07:07 PM
Hingis is insane

Yep. She won 4 in 1999 and 5 in 2000. Thats half the tier 1s in a 24 month period! :worship:

QuietPlease
Apr 12th, 2011, 07:11 PM
I was surprised Capriati and Kuznetsova has so few tier 1s compared to their Slam records!
Funny thing about Capriati's 2 Tier 1s. One came in 1991 - the other in 2001!:eek:

Bonfire
Apr 12th, 2011, 08:03 PM
Funny thing about Capriati's 2 Tier 1s. One came in 1991 - the other in 2001!:eek:

Capriati's career in general is strange. It's like she had two completely separate careers. Both with great potential. But fell short in the first cuz of burnout and the second ending prematurely due to injury. Her second career was more successful but it could have been more....just thinking about who was dominating in 2005 and 2006 makes me think Jen could have even picked up a couple more slams before retiring as well and certainly could have won more tier ones.

QuietPlease
Apr 12th, 2011, 08:09 PM
I'm sure you all now this list, but while on the subject...

Most Grand Slam titles (Open Era):

Steffi Graf 22
Chris Evert 18
Martina Navratilova 18
Serena Williams 13
Margaret Court 11*
Monica Seles 9
Billie Jean King 8*
Evonne Goolagong 7
Venus Williams 7
Justine Henin 7
Martina Hingis 5
Hana Madlikova 4
Kim Clijsters 4
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario 4
Virginia Wade 3
Jennifer Capriati 3
Lindsay Davenport 3
Maria Sharapova 3
Tracy Austin 2
Amelie Mauresmo 2
Svetlana Kuznetsova 2
Mary Pierce 2

Gunter, Jones, Barker, Reid, Jausovec, O'Neil, Ruzisi, Jordan, Sabatini, Martinez, Majoli, Novotna, Myskina, Ivanovic & Schiavone 1

*Court & King also won Slams pre-Open Era.

QuietPlease
Apr 12th, 2011, 08:46 PM
And now trying to make a comprehensive list of 'Big Titles'.

This is difficult of course. First of all there's a huge difference winning a Grand Slam or some Tier I, secondly tennis was not an official Olympic medal sport between 1924 and 1988, Tier I was first introduced in 1988 and Grand Slam Cup was only held in 98 & 99 (no releation to YEC, held from 1972-present). Obviously this does not favor legends like Court, King, Evert, Goolagong and Navratilova.
Venus Williams is the only one to have won in all 5 categories of 'Big Titles'.

Still, let's give it a try.


Most 'Big' titles Open Era:
Grand Slam, Olympic Gold, Year End Championship, Grand Slam Cup, Tier I (Premier 5, Premier Mandatory)

Steffi Graf 46 (22 GS, 1 OG, 5 YEC, 18 Tier 1)
Martina Navratilova 29 (18 GS, 8 YEC, 3 Tier I)
Serena Williams 26 (13 GS, 2 YEC, 1 GSC, 10 Tier I)
Martina Hingis 24 (5 GS, 2 YEC, 17 Tier I)
Chris Evert 22 (18 GS, 4 YEC)
Monica Seles 21 (9 GS, 3 YEC, 9 Tier I)
Justine Henin 20 (7 GS, 1 OG, 2 YEC, 10 Tier I)
Venus Williams 18 (7 GS, 1 OG, 1 YEC, 1 GSC, 8 Tier I)
Lindsay Davenport 16 (3 GS, 1 OG, 1 YEC, 11 Tier I)
Kim Clijsters 14 (4 GS, 3 YEC, 7 Tier I)
Margaret Court 11 (11 GS)
Maria Sharapova 11 (3 GS, 1 YEC, 7 Tier I)
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario 10 (4 GS, 6 Tier I)
Conchita Martinez 10 (1 GS, 9 Tier I)
Evonne Goolagong 9 (7 GS, 2 YEC)
Amelie Mauresmo 9 (2 GS, 1 YEC, 6 Tier I)
Gabriela Sabatini 9 (1 GS, 2 YEC, 6 Tier I)
Billie Jean King 8 (8 GS)
Mary Pierce 7 (2 GS, 5 Tier I)
Jennifer Capriati 6 (3 GS, 1 OG, 2 Tier I)
Jelena Jankovic 6 (6 Tier I)
Dinara Safina 5 (5 Tier I)
Caroline Wozniacki 5 (5 Tier I)
Hana Mandlikova 4 (4 GS)
Svetlana Kuznetsova 4 (2 GS, 2 Tier I)
Jana Novotna 4 (1 GS, 1 YEC, 2 Tier I)
Ana Ivanovic 4 (1 GS, 3 Tier I)
Iva Majoli 4 (1 GS, 3 Tier I)
Elena Dementieva 4 (1 OG, 3 Tier I)

Note: did not include Steffi's Olympic win in 1984 as tennis was a demonstration event only.

Ryan
Apr 12th, 2011, 08:53 PM
Great stats in this thread, well done. :bowdown: Venus and Justine are so evenly matched in stats, its insane.

Miracle Worker
Apr 12th, 2011, 08:54 PM
^^^ First I was afraid that amazing Caro wasn't included to this statistics.

But, our great Caro is arrived :dance:

Ryan
Apr 12th, 2011, 09:02 PM
Are you that stupid and single-minded? Ignore Caro, she's near the bottom of most of these stats. They are just interesting statistics in general, accept it and discuss them - or move on.

QuietPlease
Apr 12th, 2011, 09:06 PM
Are you that stupid and single-minded? Ignore Caro, she's near the bottom of most of these stats. They are just interesting statistics in general, accept it and discuss them - or move on.

Thanks :yeah:

rimon
Apr 12th, 2011, 11:27 PM
Why not include titles before the Open era? Margaret Court leads this, just like she leads most stats, at 194 titles.

PMBH
Apr 13th, 2011, 12:49 AM
I still find it incredible that Martina and Chris both have so many titles, especially since they played a large part of their careers in the same era. :worship:

In those days there was an enormous amount of small local tournaments in the States. Both Chrissie and Martina were virtually without competition in those tournaments since most top players from Europe, Australia, and the rest of the world did not participate. Similarly, Court and Goolagong won everything in Australia, and Wade was dominant in the small British tournaments.

Protoss
Apr 13th, 2011, 01:53 AM
And now trying to make a comprehensive list of 'Big Titles'.

This is difficult of course. First of all there's a huge difference winning a Grand Slam or some Tier I, secondly tennis was not an official Olympic medal sport between 1924 and 1988, Tier I was first introduced in 1988 and Grand Slam Cup was only held in 98 & 99 (no releation to YEC, held from 1972-present). Obviously this does not favor legends like Court, King, Evert, Goolagong and Navratilova.
Venus Williams is the only one to have won in all 5 categories of 'Big Titles'.

Still, let's give it a try.


Most 'Big' titles Open Era:
Grand Slam, Olympic Gold, Year End Championship, Grand Slam Cup, Tier I (Premier 5, Premier Mandatory)
Why include the Grand Slam Cup? Wasn't that an exhibition?

Were there differences in ranking points awarded for non-slam and non-yec tournaments before 1988?

hurricanejeanne
Apr 13th, 2011, 03:27 AM
Martina the First, Chrissie and Steffi's number are, as expected, down right insane! :worship:

Lindsay rates pretty damned nicely on all these little stats lists. 11 tiers ones :inlove: granted I think most of those were indoor tournaments in which she was GOAT.

QuietPlease
Apr 13th, 2011, 05:58 AM
Why not include titles before the Open era? Margaret Court leads this, just like she leads most stats, at 194 titles.

I prefer to look at the Open Era. Somehow comparing Open Era players to Helen Wills Moody, Maureen Conolly Brinker and Suzanne Lenglen doesn't make much sense to me.

Maybe I should just have excluded King and Court from the list altogether, but then again they are very important open era players....at least the formative years.

QuietPlease
Apr 13th, 2011, 06:09 AM
Why include the Grand Slam Cup? Wasn't that an exhibition?

Were there differences in ranking points awarded for non-slam and non-yec tournaments before 1988?

The Grand Slam Cup was a tennis tournament held annually at the Olympiahalle in Munich in Germany from 1990 through 1999. The event was organized by the International Tennis Federation (ITF), which invited the best-performing players in the year's Grand Slam events to compete in the Grand Slam Cup.
The tournament was created in 1990 and was played on indoor carpet courts. In its earliest years it was held in December but was later moved to the middle of autumn. From 1990 through 1997 the tournament was limited to male players. A women's Cup was added in 1998 and was held simultaneously with the men's Cup.
Throughout its existence the Grand Slam Cup was famous for paying out the highest prize money of any tournament in tennis. The winner for the first three years of the Cup received U.S.$2 million in prize money, which dipped to $1.625 million in 1993, rose to $1.875 million in 1996 and back to $2 million in 1997 before falling to $1.3 million in 1998. If the Cup was won by a player who had also won a Grand Slam event that year they received a bonus of $1 million. Prize money for the winner of the two women's Cups was fixed at $800,000.
The Cup was not recognized by the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) for the course of its run, and participants did not receive points in the ATP computer rankings nor have it credited as an official career title. Following the discontinuation of the Cup in 1999 the ATP decided to give the event full recognition and added it to players' lists of official titles.

The WTA also added the titles to Serena's and Venus' totals. Prize money was huge.

I dont know how the non-slams were ranked before.

darrinbaker00
Apr 13th, 2011, 06:14 AM
Yes amazing! There were a lot of tournaments back then, and they played a lot of them.

It wasn't unusual to play 80-90 matches a year, Martina played 100 a year on multiple occasions and that's not counting doubles :eek:

Actually, there were fewer tournaments back then. It's just that (a) Chrissie and Martina played almost every week because the prize money wasn't that great, and (b) they almost always made it to the weekend.

Betten
Apr 13th, 2011, 08:51 AM
The WTA also added the titles to Serena's and Venus' totals. Prize money was huge.

The GS Cup still seems to have been more like a glorified, overpayed exhibition. It was open to only 8 players and was held only for two years. A lot of the players didn't even take it seriously and where only there for the cheque. Other than the obscene amount of prize money (Serena won $900,000 for winning three matches there in 1999; in comparison, her US Open title that year was worth 'only' $750,000) it had nothing, since it was an ITF event and the WTA didn't award any ranking points for it. Even Serena herself thought of it as an exhibition event.

The women's event was also added relatively late. It first began as a way for the ITF to compete with the newly formed ATP tour and its Tour World Championship (which is why it focused on the performances at the slams and why the ATP didn't recognize it at first), with the prize money as the only incentive for the players. The 1999 edition was the last one, when it merged with the Championship to form the Masters Cup (now the WTF). The WTA didn't have much to do with it, which is why it got cancelled after 1999.

Olórin
Apr 13th, 2011, 10:04 AM
I prefer to look at the Open Era. Somehow comparing Open Era players to Helen Wills Moody, Maureen Conolly Brinker and Suzanne Lenglen doesn't make much sense to me.


Why not? You were willing to compare Chris Evert with Maria Sharapova and there's equally as big a gap in time and perhaps more of a gap in the way the game was played than between Margaret Court and Maureen Connolly.

The Open era distinction makes no difference when discussing women's tennis as they weren't excluded from playing the slams if they were playing on the "tour" pre open era. The distinction is an arbitrary one and it makes no sense to only put Court's titles post-1969 up there. You should include all 192 or none at all.

tennisvideos
Apr 13th, 2011, 11:47 AM
Ah, Martina N. And 177 doubles and 15 mixed doubles titles on top of that, the last one (a slam) won a month before her 50th birthday! There'll never be another player quite like her.

It'll always be a topic of discussion what's the most impressive: Navratilova's 167 titles, Graf's 22 slams or Evert's 90% career wins. :)

Well thats interesting, especially when you consider that Margaret Court trumps all three on those key stats - and yet most people overlook her. And the Open era division shouldn't factor into this as there was no difference for the womens tour before and after 1968 except for prizemoney - unlike the mens tour which had a division of pro and amateur ranks prior to 68.

On those 3 key stats that you mentioned, Court won 199 singles titles, 24 Slams and 92% singles career wins. Pipping each of those other legends. :worship:

bandabou
Apr 13th, 2011, 12:36 PM
Well thats interesting, especially when you consider that Margaret Court trumps all three on those key stats - and yet most people overlook her. And the Open era division shouldn't factor into this as there was no difference for the womens tour before and after 1968 except for prizemoney - unlike the mens tour which had a division of pro and amateur ranks prior to 68.

On those 3 key stats that you mentioned, Court won 199 singles titles, 24 Slams and 92% singles career wins. Pipping each of those other legends. :worship:

:worship: Only all those weak Oz opens, huh?! :lol: ;) Just kidding...

QuietPlease
Aug 15th, 2011, 12:02 PM
Updated.

RSimcox
Oct 3rd, 2012, 08:00 AM
I prefer to look at the Open Era. Somehow comparing Open Era players to Helen Wills Moody, Maureen Conolly Brinker and Suzanne Lenglen doesn't make much sense to me.

Maybe I should just have excluded King and Court from the list altogether, but then again they are very important open era players....at least the formative years.

But many want to know about ALL of tennis history. How many titles did players like Moody, Lenglen and Connelly have?