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justineheninfan
Oct 7th, 2010, 03:35 PM
Obviously the top 3 players of 1998 were Davenport, Hingis, and Novotna. So who was the 4th best player of the year- Venus Williams, Seles, or Sanchez Vicario.

Rollo
Oct 7th, 2010, 03:52 PM
The slam winner (Sanchez at the French) is my clear choice for #4. I recall being gutted that Monica ran out of steam yet again in a 3 set final. I've always felt that an in shape and injury free Seles would have won the 98 French and the 95 US finals-but that's going down the path into "what if" land.

As she did so many times Sanchez-Vicario fought like a demon possessed and got rewarded for it. Her tenacity is a good model for anyone to follow.

justineheninfan
Oct 7th, 2010, 04:07 PM
I felt overall Venus and Seles were better players than Sanchez at that point. Seles killed Sanchez in their other matches that year IIRC, and Venus beat Sanchez everywhere after Sydney including even in their lone match on clay while also beating Seles easily in their only meeting of the year. Still because she won the French the stats would probably favor Sanchez. Then again Venus won Miami and had many other strong results, and Seles won Canada and also had some other strong showings.

mick1303
Oct 11th, 2010, 09:59 AM
Weighted ranking for 1998:

Hingis,_Martina______________18.37281
Davenport,_Lindsay___________17.74515
Novotna,_Jana________________13.89257
Williams,_Venus______________12.92855
Sanchez_Vicario,_Arantxa_____12.58874
Seles,_Monica________________11.19735
Schnyder,_Patty______________10.9788
Martinez,_Conchita___________10.40827
Pierce,_Mary_________________10.21926
Graf,_Steffi_________________10.05666

Kart
Oct 11th, 2010, 10:21 AM
It's difficult to argue for Seles as she missed a lot of the season and she wasn't that great apart from in Paris. Venus seems to have had the most consistent year but lacked any major wins aside from Key Biscayne.

So I vote for ASV.

I'm not convinced the argument for Novotna being way ahead at no.3 is actually that convincing.

Apart from a good grass season she only really performed at a couple of weak fielded tournaments and that US open semi choke. ASV beat her twice that year and really isn't that far behind IMHO.

chris whiteside
Oct 11th, 2010, 11:34 AM
I feel any ranking has to be based on year-round performance.

Of course, the Slams are the most important and have to be weighted accordingly BUT all other results count too.

Without seeing the full records in front of you of all players involved I wouldn't attempt to judge them relatively.

mick1303
Oct 11th, 2010, 12:10 PM
I feel any ranking has to be based on year-round performance.

Of course, the Slams are the most important and have to be weighted accordingly BUT all other results count too.

Without seeing the full records in front of you of all players involved I wouldn't attempt to judge them relatively.

I base my 1998 ranking on 53 tournaments plus Fed Cup – World Group I and II (including playoffs). This is a full calendar (w/o challengers and lower divisions) – 2180 matches.

samn
Oct 11th, 2010, 09:25 PM
My recollection of 1998 beyond Hingis and Davenport is a bit hazy. (Apart from the beatdown Graf delivered Hingis in the Philly quarters, that is. :devil:) Was that the year Venus Williams won the Italian Open? Or was that in 1999? Wasn't 1998 the year when Venus defeated Kournikova to win the Lipton final? As I remember it, she also lost to the eventual champ at Wimbledon (Novotna in t the QF) and the US Open (Davenport in the SF) and had decent showings in some other big events (Australian Open QF - lost to Davenport; French Open QF - lost to Hingis). Although she didn't win a Slam that year she seemed to be solidly established in the top 5 and her losses at the majors were to quality opposition. Since I can't recall any of the other players being consistently better (ASV's French title seemed the exception rather than the rule in an otherwise spotty year for her), I'd have to go with Venus as my #4 for 1998.

samn
Oct 11th, 2010, 09:38 PM
Ok, after I voted for Venus, I looked up her 1998 record to find out if she did win the Italian Open. She didn't. Hingis beat her in the final.

Venus's record for 1998
Sydney F: lost to Sanchez Vicario (beat Hingis in the second round)
Australian Open QF: lost to Davenport
Oklahoma City WON: d. Joanette Kruger (beat Davenport in the semis)
Indian Wells SF: lost to Hingis
Lipton WON: d. Kournikova (beat Hingis in the semis)
Italian Open F: lost to Hingis (beat Sanchez Vicario in the semis)
French Open QF: lost to Hingis
Eastbourne 2R: lost to Zvereva
Wimbledon QF: lost to Novotna
Stanford F: lost to Davenport (beat Seles in the semis)
San Diego QF: lost to Pierce (retired hurt at 0-4 in the third set)
US Open SF: lost to Davenport (beat Pierce in the R16 and Sanchez Vicario in the QF)
Filderstadt R32: lost to Van Roost
Zurich F: lost to Davenport (beat Pierce in the QF)
Moscow SF: lost to Pierce

Her title count is very low indeed: only one Tier I event and one Tier III event. She was clearly a few levels below the Big Two, but did beat them both at least once each. Her only bad losses over the year were to Zvereva (who was in good form that summer and would go on to beat both Graf and Seles to reach the Wimbledon semis over the following fortnight), Pierce, and Van Roost. But Pierce herself was in pretty good form that fall, winning Moscow and Luxembourg back-to-back. The Van Roost loss is a truly bad one, but I'd wager that both Seles and Sanchez Vicario had more than a couple of similar bad losses each. (Besides Van Roost also went on to beat Hingis in the quarter-finals and lost to Testud in the semis. Testud then played spoiler by beating the newly crowned #1, Davenport, in the final.)

spencercarlos
Oct 11th, 2010, 10:23 PM
My recollection of 1998 beyond Hingis and Davenport is a bit hazy. (Apart from the beatdown Graf delivered Hingis in the Philly quarters, that is. :devil:) Was that the year Venus Williams won the Italian Open? Or was that in 1999? Wasn't 1998 the year when Venus defeated Kournikova to win the Lipton final? As I remember it, she also lost to the eventual champ at Wimbledon (Novotna in t the QF) and the US Open (Davenport in the SF) and had decent showings in some other big events (Australian Open QF - lost to Davenport; French Open QF - lost to Hingis). Although she didn't win a Slam that year she seemed to be solidly established in the top 5 and her losses at the majors were to quality opposition. Since I can't recall any of the other players being consistently better (ASV's French title seemed the exception rather than the rule in an otherwise spotty year for her), I'd have to go with Venus as my #4 for 1998.
I think you are wrong this time.

Ok Arantxa won a slam in 1998, but she had QF at the Australian Open, same as Venus, Qf at Wimbledon same as Venus, and QF losing effort to Venus at the Usopen, so clearly Arantxa had a greater grand slam year than Venus.

I even bet that Arantxa had a greater grand slma year than Novotna.

samn
Oct 12th, 2010, 06:48 AM
I think you are wrong this time.

Ok Arantxa won a slam in 1998, but she had QF at the Australian Open, same as Venus, Qf at Wimbledon same as Venus, and QF losing effort to Venus at the Usopen, so clearly Arantxa had a greater grand slam year than Venus.

I even bet that Arantxa had a greater grand slma year than Novotna.

Sanchez Vicario
Won: Sydney (Tier II), French Open (GS)
Final: Eastbourne (Tier II), Montreal (Tier I), Tokyo (Tier II)
Semi-final: Lipton (Tier I), Rome (Tier I), Los Angeles (Tier II), Filderstadt (Tier II)
Quarter-final: Australian Open (GS), Wimbledon (GS), US Open (GS)

Losses: 3x Martina Hingis (*), 3x Monica Seles (*), 2x Anna Kournikova, 2x Venus Williams, 1x Anke Huber, 1x Andrea Glass, 1x Patty Schnyder, 1x Jana Novotna, 1x Julie Halard Decugis, 1x Lindsay Davenport, 1x Anna-Gaelle Sidot, 1x Amanda Coetzer, 1x Irina Spirlea

(*) Includes one Fed Cup rubber

lost to Huber, Hingis, Venus Williams, Spirlea, and Kournikova at the Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open, WTA Championships, and Miami respectively.

Not as bad a year for ASV as I expected. I was probably thinking of one of the later years when I remembered her playing piddly little Tier III clay court events in places like Egypt. Her record seems to be littered with more bad losses than Williams, but she also played a lot more than Williams on both clay and indoors. Curiously enough ASV seemed to be most consistent on hard courts in 1998, getting to a lot of semi-finals and finals, and losing to top opposition.

Having looked at both of their records, I could just as easily pick ASV as the #4, but I think I'll stay with Venus. ;-)

spencercarlos
Oct 12th, 2010, 06:59 AM
Sanchez Vicario
Won: Sydney (Tier II), French Open (GS)
Final: Eastbourne (Tier II), Montreal (Tier I), Tokyo (Tier II)
Semi-final: Lipton (Tier I), Rome (Tier I), Los Angeles (Tier II), Filderstadt (Tier II)
Quarter-final: Australian Open (GS), Wimbledon (GS), US Open (GS)

Losses: 3x Martina Hingis (*), 3x Monica Seles (*), 2x Anna Kournikova, 2x Venus Williams, 1x Anke Huber, 1x Andrea Glass, 1x Patty Schnyder, 1x Jana Novotna, 1x Julie Halard Decugis, 1x Lindsay Davenport, 1x Anna-Gaelle Sidot, 1x Amanda Coetzer, 1x Irina Spirlea

(*) Includes one Fed Cup rubber

lost to Huber, Hingis, Venus Williams, Spirlea, and Kournikova at the Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open, WTA Championships, and Miami respectively.

Not as bad a year for ASV as I expected. I was probably thinking of one of the later years when I remembered her playing piddly little Tier III clay court events in places like Egypt. Her record seems to be littered with more bad losses than Williams, but she also played a lot more than Williams on both clay and indoors. Curiously enough ASV seemed to be most consistent on hard courts in 1998, getting to a lot of semi-finals and finals, and losing to top opposition.

Having looked at both of their records, I could just as easily pick ASV as the #4, but I think I'll stay with Venus. ;-)
Its ok.
But don´t forget that in 1998 Venus lost matches 6-1 6-2 to Zvereva and Van Roost. Even a 6-1 6-3 to Arantxa in the Sydney final. While Arantxa was not losing like that in 98 IMO..

R-K-M
Oct 13th, 2010, 02:28 AM
1998 is the year of Davenport.She got the super spirit from Florida final against Venus Williams.where her score 1-4 in 3rd set and from them she got a god's help.After that match,she said that she will won number 1 rank,if she play the same like that match.

Won next 2 tourneys too and after 23 matches,she lost to Steffi Graf at Pilot Pen tournament.As a Graf fan,it's little taste of Steffi's real game to Lindsay. Offcourse ,Lindsay won US open and after some time,also got top rank from Martina Hingis and finished the year at number 1.

BTW,Graf defeated all top-4 players in a 7days period at the end of year and you know Steffi still didn't get well from her surgeries.

For me,Graf is 4th best in 1998,even she won only 3 titles at the year!

gabybackhand
Oct 13th, 2010, 04:33 PM
I still remember that exhibition of her class by Graf. Amazing! And she could beat the 4 top players because she is THE top player, no matter her given ranking. Oh I miss those incredibly great real Nº1s.

Declan
Oct 13th, 2010, 06:34 PM
Other: Mary Pierce.

justineheninfan
Oct 16th, 2010, 04:00 AM
Other: Mary Pierce.

Interesting. What did Pierce do of note in 98? She had one ok tournament where she beat Hingis and Venus before being trounced by Davenport 1 and 3 in the final (I think it was only a tier 2) and she won a tier 1 on clay I believe. No particularly impressive slam results, her best being a quarterfinal in Australia where she got crushed 2 and 3 by Hingis.

PlayByPlay
Oct 17th, 2010, 03:40 PM
Venus was upcoming back in 1998 she did perform very well but I wouldn't really put her as best Player back in 98.