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Curtos07
Sep 24th, 2010, 07:19 AM
Ana got the worst draw EVER! Kleybanova in the 1st round. Bartoli/Wickmayer in the 2nd. Vika likely in the 3rd. Stosur in the quarters. :sobbing::sobbing::sobbing:

http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/SEWTATour-Archive/posting/2010/603/MDS.pdf

Davodus
Sep 24th, 2010, 07:23 AM
Horrible section of the draw :o How often does she wanna draw Kleybanova, seriously :o And my 2 faves in the same part of the draw, perfect. So happy with this draw :rolleyes:

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 24th, 2010, 08:46 AM
This draw is :help: What the actual f*ck is that???:o

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 24th, 2010, 08:49 AM
LMAO. Kleybags again. :spit:

Cp6uja
Sep 24th, 2010, 10:18 AM
Ana got the worst draw EVER! Kleybanova in the 1st round. Bartoli/Wickmayer in the 2nd. Vika likely in the 3rd. Stosur in the quarters. :sobbing::sobbing::sobbing:

http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/SEWTATour-Archive/posting/2010/603/MDS.pdf:scratch: Ana is unseeded there, and this is actually good draw for Ana's traditional "jinx" standards :shrug:

Kleybanova and Bartoli/Wickmayer is tough opponents for opening 2 rounds, but there is many more dangerous options which she escape :shrug:

My first impression about Ana Tokyo 2010 draw is OMG it's Stanford Copycat where Ana is also destined to play R1-Kleybanova, R2-Bartoli, QF-Azarenka, SF-Stosur and F-Sharapova, which will be very probably same case here (+ one extra Wozniacki SF round) :eek:

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 24th, 2010, 10:28 AM
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Turnaround in Tokyo!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Mountain Ana
Sep 24th, 2010, 10:36 AM
Her match against Dushevina was :help:
I don't agree with her not playing MM. You can't say that she would play better in Premier 5 tournaments. I think that she would lose that match if it was played in Tokyo also. It's not like she didn't want to win. She really did. It doesn't really matters where she plays, it matters how she plays. And she played like crap after first set.

Tokyo draw is very tough, but it could be worse. Ana is very unpredictable these days, so I wouldn't predict anything. She could win or lose, it's up to her.

gaviotabr
Sep 24th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Oh my.. not a surprising draw though.. Ana has had very little pure luck lately.. she always gets the toughest possible draw to go along with all the bad line calls against her. :o

Anyway... she might as well go winless in Asia, just like last year.. great.. NOT.. :banghead:

gaviotabr
Sep 24th, 2010, 12:15 PM
yes i actually agree with you, all the seeds of her problems were there, but she had such a huge desire that she was able to overcome them (even though inconsistently)... I think what we see now is the real Ana, she needs to work on her mindset with a psychologist, she really needs that, hopefully she'll think about it at some point...


I don't think this is the real Ana, in the sense that she is a much better tennis player. But this is her natural mentality.. a loser mentality. With a lot of work, desire and determination, she could get her mentality to go up and get her to wins. Without all that, her natural loser mentality shows up and drags her down, messes up her tennis abilities. She should really work hard on that with a pro, a sports psychologist, because it's a big issue. The difference between players in the top 100 is often nothing more than a winner mentality. But Ana seems so resistent to that.. I don't have much hope in her working especifically on that to be honest.. but it should be number 1 in her list of things to do in order to get her game back up and compete for titles. Without a LOT of especific work on her mentality, she might have spurs of good play here and there, but will not be a top player again.

IvanovicTheBest
Sep 24th, 2010, 12:49 PM
Ahh not again!!Why,just why?Kleybs is starting to be a nightmare!What has ana done wrong so god doesent give her little luck??
So If she is not given some luck,she has to do by her own.Ana pls win thins,at least just this match..Its going to be tough,but she can do it.Good luck sweetie!!!!

gaviotabr
Sep 24th, 2010, 01:25 PM
Ana said in a diary she wanted to achieve consistency in the asian tournaments.. well, she just might acomplish that. Consistently losing in the first round. :o

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 24th, 2010, 01:26 PM
Ana said in a diary she wanted to achieve consistency in the asian tournaments.. well, she just might acomplish that. Consistently losing in the first round. :o

:sobbing:

Cp6uja
Sep 24th, 2010, 03:05 PM
I still have no idea why since Tokyo draw is released so many people talking here about hard draw for Ana (even hardest possible:confused:)??? Check Entry List, this is Premier-5 Event, and she has not to face any TOP10 in R1, R2 and R3, which is not that bad at all :shrug:

c98qdFQF7sw

Davodus
Sep 24th, 2010, 03:07 PM
I still have no idea why since Tokyo draw is released so many people talking here about hard draw for Ana (even hardest possible:confused:)??? Check Entry List, this is Premier-5 Event, and she has not to face any TOP10 in R1, R2 and R3, which is not that bad at all :shrug:

c98qdFQF7sw

I agree, I definitely don't think it's the hardest possible..I think it's generally a pretty expected draw for an unseeded player...Could have been much worse.

bruce goose
Sep 24th, 2010, 03:32 PM
I still have no idea why since Tokyo draw is released so many people talking here about hard draw for Ana (even hardest possible:confused:)??? Check Entry List, this is Premier-5 Event, and she has not to face any TOP10 in R1, R2 and R3, which is not that bad at all :shrug:

c98qdFQF7swHere's another rare occasion where I'll agree with you,Cp6uja.The ultimate goal is to see Ana reach the heights of tennis again...as she goes deep in draws,it's almost inevitable that she'll face top players...so what's the point of always wishing that Ana will play only Brie Whitehead types??I've never seen such a bunch of spineless,limp-wristed sports fans in my life.Sports is about ACCEPTING and overcoming challenges....NOT fleeing from them in terror.When the gringo basketball team plays their best,they're often like Serena in GOAT mode--almost impossible to beat.Still,when I watch international competitions,I don't see the other fans going,":hysteric:It's so unfair that we have to play the Americans.Why,God?"....They realize it's a tough challenge,but they relish the prospect of putting the stinkin' U.S. in its place...and the players are more fired up than usual,too.

My hope is that Ana will learn to follow the example of Clijsters,who doesn't seem afraid even when she's facing great players who are on a hot streak.Of course,Ana should NOT attempt to build her confidence for those matches by reading the posts in this forum

gaviotabr
Sep 24th, 2010, 10:51 PM
From facebook:

Ana Ivanovic Kleybanova again, in the Tokyo first round! We've played each other a few times already this year. It's a very difficult match for sure. The conditions here are very different to Seoul, by the way: we are going from the slowest hard court to the fastest. Unfortunately the weather here also isn't great, but hopefully it will improve!

Fastest hard court.. humm..

Loungy
Sep 25th, 2010, 05:13 AM
but problem is much deeper, and playing small tournaments as proven good formula in comeback process never been serious option in Ana case, because that simple never worked for her like for other players :shrug:
Thank God for MD WCs, then. :shrug: Here's hoping she doesn't need to whore up for them again in the near future.

And things change. The USOS used to be the worst part of the season for Ana. This year's it was her best.

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 25th, 2010, 09:10 AM
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Turnaround in Tokyo!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:


I think I'm gonna keep this up.:p

Davodus
Sep 25th, 2010, 09:32 AM
From facebook:



Fastest hard court.. humm..

Watching last year, since they changed from the carpet surface to hardcourt, I thought it seemed like a quite medium paced court :o guess I was wrong :p

Protoss
Sep 25th, 2010, 10:21 AM
Watching last year, since they changed from the carpet surface to hardcourt, I thought it seemed like a quite medium paced court :o guess I was wrong :p
Nah, you're probably right. Compared to the slowness of rebound ace courts almost everything must seem a lot faster. :p

I think Cincinnati is the fastest court on tour.

AbyssII
Sep 25th, 2010, 12:39 PM
She's not on the OOP of Sunday, so she will play Monday. I'd rather like her to play tomorrow, but Kleybs has not already play Seoul's final

bruce goose
Sep 25th, 2010, 01:15 PM
She's not on the OOP of Sunday, so she will play Monday. I'd rather like her to play tomorrow, but Kleybs has not already play Seoul's finalAnd,unless Tokyo postpones the one match in the overall OOP,that measn that Kleybs will play a scrappy opponent in the Seoul final,then fly to Tokyo that night or early next morning to face a talented Ana with no rest.I'm not sure that Alisa is the kind of player who could do that effectively---she may even be tempted to WD from Tokyo

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 25th, 2010, 01:19 PM
Nope, Tokyo isn't that far from Seoul. Probably an hour or two flight at the most. :lol:

Ana will lose. Her loss to Dushevina has erased all my hope for her again.

bruce goose
Sep 25th, 2010, 01:28 PM
Nope, Tokyo isn't that far from Seoul. Probably an hour or two flight at the most. :lol:

Ana will lose. Her loss to Dushevina has erased all my hope for her again.You're still missing the point---HUGE shock:rolleyes:....

Even for an hour or two-hour flight,there's still the hassle of rushing to and waiting at the airport,then re-settling in a new city...and that's tiring and emotionally draining even for GREAT players,sometimes...and Alisa isn't great...only good...plus she'll have had no rest after several days of play......You're welcome,of course,to join the world's sissiest fans in proclaiming doom for Ana....Maybe you can join sissy Fed for a massive sobfest on Nadal's shoulder if Rafa has the freetime

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 25th, 2010, 01:33 PM
You're still missing the point---HUGE shock:rolleyes:....

Even for an hour or two-hour flight,there's still the hassle of rushing to and waiting at the airport,then re-settling in a new city...and that's tiring and emotionally draining even for GREAT players,sometimes...and Alisa isn't great...only good...plus she'll have had no rest after several days of play......You're welcome,of course,to join the world's sissiest fans in proclaiming doom for Ana....Maybe you can join sissy Fed for a massive sobfest on Nadal's shoulder if Rafa has the freetime

I like you but sometimes you're mean. :sad:

EDIT: OK maybe that was unnecessary (my post I mean) but can you really blame us for sometimes getting a bit frustrated with Ana and losing hope a little bit, especially when we have issues of our own to deal with as well? ;)

Davodus
Sep 25th, 2010, 02:00 PM
Ivanovic is trending on twitter :spit: I dunno why, it's for someone else, but now a lot of the tweets are about Ana.

gaviotabr
Sep 25th, 2010, 02:06 PM
Ivanovic is trending on twitter :spit: I dunno why, it's for someone else, but now a lot of the tweets are about Ana.

:lol:

It was about Branislav Ivanovic, Chelsea's defender.

gaviotabr
Sep 25th, 2010, 02:08 PM
She's not on the OOP of Sunday, so she will play Monday. I'd rather like her to play tomorrow, but Kleybs has not already play Seoul's final

I think the match might even be played on tuesday.. :shrug: It would never be played on sunday though, obviously.

And,unless Tokyo postpones the one match in the overall OOP,that measn that Kleybs will play a scrappy opponent in the Seoul final,then fly to Tokyo that night or early next morning to face a talented Ana with no rest.I'm not sure that Alisa is the kind of player who could do that effectively---she may even be tempted to WD from Tokyo

It will come down to which Ana shows up.. if it's the one who played Dushevina, then she is not beating anyone.. not even a dead tired Kleybs.

gaviotabr
Sep 25th, 2010, 02:12 PM
:lol:

It was about Branislav Ivanovic, Chelsea's defender.

By the way.. the other day there were plenty of tweets about a Dusko Ivanovic, basketball coach. :lol:

Dexter
Sep 25th, 2010, 02:22 PM
:lol:

If I were Kleybanova I'd fly even for 15 hrs just to beat up on a girl whose toes are prettier than me as a whole. :tape:

bruce goose
Sep 25th, 2010, 02:50 PM
I like you but sometimes you're mean. :sad:

EDIT: OK maybe that was unnecessary (my post I mean) but can you really blame us for sometimes getting a bit frustrated with Ana and losing hope a little bit, especially when we have issues of our own to deal with as well? ;)Yeah,you're right,Aaron,so I'm sorry for being hard on you:hug:...it's just a little bizarre for me to see the mentality of so many posters here.You've probably seen me tease poster Doni because she's a Steelers fan...and I follow their arch-rivals.I wouldn't say that there was ANYthing masculine or dykey about Doni...and yet some of the guys here are more girlish than SHE ever is...including one who fantasizes so deeply about being Nole's girlfriend that,in his own words,he 'can't resist(slobbering over)Nole's "huge balls"':rolleyes:....To be more accurate,it's more like an unstable,adolescent 12-year-old gal mentality...instead of a more typical feminine one.

As I said before,sports are largely about competition...about accepting and overcoming challenges.If someone's so weak that they can't handle Ana's facing a tough opponent without proclaiming and sobbing profusely over her supposedly certain doom...then maybe they ought to take up a different hobby other than being a sports fan.In 2003,Doni's Steelers sucked while my Ravens were division champs,yet I seriously doubt that Doni said(though she was only a teen then) ::hysteric:"Why do we have to play the Ravens twice?They're gonna kill us:sobbing:"....Other than Henin and Serena,Ana has beaten every top player,and she's certainly capable of breaking through against those other two someday...so it's not as if Ana were a hopeless cause by ANY stretch,especially with the guidance she now has.Tbh,this is the only forum I've seen like this;Dinara is a MAJOR mental case,yet her fans don't spend two entire pages proclaiming the Apocalypse like the 'fans' here do....It's just truly bizarre to me,sometimes,when so-called fans shrink so much from the challenge of sports....I can't relate to that:shrug:

gaviotabr
Sep 25th, 2010, 03:14 PM
Yeah,you're right,Aaron,so I'm sorry for being hard on you:hug:...it's just a little bizarre for me to see the mentality of so many posters here.You've probably seen me tease poster Doni because she's a Steelers fan...and I follow their arch-rivals.I wouldn't say that there was ANYthing masculine or dykey about Doni...and yet some of the guys here are more girlish than SHE ever is...including one who fantasizes so deeply about being Nole's girlfriend that,in his own words,he 'can't resist(slobbering over)Nole's "huge balls"':rolleyes:....To be more accurate,it's more like an unstable,adolescent 12-year-old gal mentality...instead of a more typical feminine one.

As I said before,sports are largely about competition...about accepting and overcoming challenges.If someone's so weak that they can't handle Ana's facing a tough opponent without proclaiming and sobbing profusely over her supposedly certain doom...then maybe they ought to take up a different hobby other than being a sports fan.In 2003,Doni's Steelers sucked while my Ravens were division champs,yet I seriously doubt that Doni said(though she was only a teen then) ::hysteric:"Why do we have to play the Ravens twice?They're gonna kill us:sobbing:"....Other than Henin and Serena,Ana has beaten every top player,and she's certainly capable of breaking through against those other two someday...so it's not as if Ana were a hopeless cause by ANY stretch,especially with the guidance she now has.Tbh,this is the only forum I've seen like this;Dinara is a MAJOR mental case,yet her fans don't spend two entire pages proclaiming the Apocalypse like the 'fans' here do....It's just truly bizarre to me,sometimes,when so-called fans shrink so much from the challenge of sports....I can't relate to that:shrug:

Maybe because it has been 2 whole years that every time we believe she can win a match, she loses it in the most pathetic way?

Luck plays a big part in life in general, let alone in sports.. you downplay its role a lot. Ana is in a VERY fragile state right now.. she is not by any means out of a 24 month stretch of completely awful pathetic tennis, and to snap out of it for good, she needs to have consistent wins, to have sustained decent level of play, which she is about an abyss away of acomplishing. To get closer to that, she needs those wins.. wins against anyone. This is not about.. " OMG she got a tough player!!! " This is about her getting a player who obviously gives her fits, after she had one of her most pathetic displays of tennis this year. With some more pure luck, like flipping a coin, she could have got someone like Ayumi Morita or Kurumi Nara.. and even not playing all that well, she would have a better chance of scoring a win and, boy she needs those a lot in her present circunstances. Once upon a time I couldn't care less about Ana's draw.. but she is in a difficult situation, she needs some luck to even have a chance of snaping out of it.

You had this same speech when we were saying Dushevina could be a tricky opponent and it was a tough draw for an international. And look how great and accurate your speech ended up being.. :rolleyes: All these challenges are great once you are in the position to overcome them.. when you have a solid base level and building stairs to go up.. but when you are fighting out of your own hole, when you are still fighting yourself, when there is no security level, they mostly mean more loss of confidence and further heartbreak.. Ana is still not in the position of really challenging herself.. we've seen plenty of it from her pathetic displays in slams or whenever she gets a big chance of doing something good. She is still on a very heated battle with herself. She needs all the help she can get in overcoming that, including lots of luck and help from draws and opponents.

Having said that, it doesn't matter who she is playing if she goes out there playing the pathetic tennis she displayed in her last 2 matches. I do hope she surprises us all.. shows up playing well, and beats whoever is in front of her.

gaviotabr
Sep 25th, 2010, 03:33 PM
"Each minute that passes by might be the last one I have to live, but I end up wasting time like if it was infinite..."

It has been 2 years people.. it won't be getting any easier..

bruce goose
Sep 25th, 2010, 03:49 PM
Maybe because it has been 2 whole years that every time we believe she can win a match, she loses it in the most pathetic way?

Luck plays a big part in life in general, let alone in sports.. you downplay its role a lot. Ana is in a VERY fragile state right now.. she is not by any means out of a 24 month stretch of completely awful pathetic tennis, and to snap out of it for good, she needs to have consistent wins, to have sustained decent level of play, which she is about an abyss away of acomplishing. To get closer to that, she needs those wins.. wins against anyone. This is not about.. " OMG she got a tough player!!! " This is about her getting a player who obviously gives her fits, after she had one of her most pathetic displays of tennis this year. With some more pure luck, like flipping a coin, she could have got someone like Ayumi Morita or Kurumi Nara.. and even not playing all that well, she would have a better chance of scoring a win and, boy she needs those a lot in her present circunstances. Once upon a time I couldn't care less about Ana's draw.. but she is in a difficult situation, she needs some luck to even have a chance of snaping out of it.

You had this same speech when we were saying Dushevina could be a tricky opponent and it was a tough draw for an international. And look how great and accurate your speech ended up being.. :rolleyes: All these challenges are great once you are in the position to overcome them.. when you have a solid base level and building stairs to go up.. but when you are fighting out of your own hole, when you are still fighting yourself, when there is no security level, they mostly mean more loss of confidence and further heartbreak.. Ana is still not in the position of really challenging herself.. we've seen plenty of it from her pathetic displays in slams or whenever she gets a big chance of doing something good. She is still on a very heated battle with herself. She needs all the help she can get in overcoming that, including lots of luck and help from draws and opponents.

Having said that, it doesn't matter who she is playing if she goes out there playing the pathetic tennis she displayed in her last 2 matches. I do hope she surprises us all.. shows up playing well, and beats whoever is in front of her.At least you came clean at the end;you were one of the worst whiners complaining how unfair life was when Ana drew Vika twice...and she beat her BOTH times...you had the same funeral dirge before she last played Alisa...and she beat HER,too.

You have this bizarre mindset in your posts that Ana is playing some sort of board game---that she goes back to 'Start' with every loss.When she played like crap vs. JJ in Madrid,suddenly beating Dementieva in Rome...and other positive steps...meant absolutely nothing...and Ana was supposedly no better than Dickhead's golf-course WAGger again...and then she bounced back with Cincy and the USO.I keep telling you that progress isn't a purely linear path...but you don't agree with me...which is fine cuz you're entitled to your opinion.I've simply seen evidence to the contrary in my personal experience

AbyssII
Sep 25th, 2010, 03:49 PM
I think the match might even be played on tuesday.. :shrug: It would never be played on sunday though, obviously.



It will come down to which Ana shows up.. if it's the one who played Dushevina, then she is not beating anyone.. not even a dead tired Kleybs.

But there isn't any 1r match Tuesday actually. Usually, Tuesday there are only 2r matches

gaviotabr
Sep 25th, 2010, 03:58 PM
But there isn't any 1r match Tuesday actually. Usually, Tuesday there are only 2r matches

That's the original schedule.. but it's subject of change. ;)

gaviotabr
Sep 25th, 2010, 04:06 PM
At least you came clean at the end;you were one of the worst whiners complaining how unfair life was when Ana drew Vika twice...and she beat her BOTH times...you had the same funeral dirge before she last played Alisa...and she beat HER,too.

You have this bizarre mindset in your posts that Ana is playing some sort of board game---that she goes back to 'Start' with every loss.When she played like crap vs. JJ in Madrid,suddenly beating Dementieva in Rome...and other positive steps...meant absolutely nothing...and Ana was supposedly no better than Dickhead's golf-course WAGger again...and then she bounced back with Cincy and the USO.I keep telling you that progress isn't a purely linear path...but you don't agree with me...which is fine cuz you're entitled to your opinion.I've simply seen evidence to the contrary in my personal experience

We disagree.. that's obvious. After Rome, Ana played worse than ever.. her match against Dushevina was also some of the worst tennis I've ever seen her play. I don't think 1 or 2 good tournaments around 15 bad ones can help her in the big picture, to be honest.. especially considering she is in a 2 year slump of epic proportions. If Ana does't acomplish some sustained decent level of play, she won't truly get out of this or regain true confidence in herself. She might just become of those mediocre players who have 1 or 2 good runs the whole year. If that's okay for you, then fine.. I don't think Rome did Ana any good or was instrumental to her progress (if there is any), and Cincy/USO won't either if she flops out of every tournament until the end of the year playing pathetic tennis like she did against Dushevina. This is not a normal situation that one good tournament means you are making progress.. this is not someone coming up.. this is a 2 year!! slump. You can't treat it the same way.

And I still hope Ana can show up playing well and win matches in Tokyo, like she did when she played Vika in Rome/Cincy (though in one Vika was barely walking and in the other she choked with double faults galore while serving for the match twice.. some big luck played a part there, and Ana needs that!).

bruce goose
Sep 25th, 2010, 04:34 PM
We disagree.. that's obvious. After Rome, Ana played worse than ever.. her match against Dushevina was also some of the worst tennis I've ever seen her play. I don't think 1 or 2 good tournaments around 15 bad ones can help her in the big picture, to be honest.. especially considering she is in a 2 year slump of epic proportions. If Ana does't acomplish some sustained decent level of play, she won't truly get out of this or regain true confidence in herself. She might just become of those mediocre players who have 1 or 2 good runs the whole year. If that's okay for you, then fine.. I don't think Rome did Ana any good or was instrumental to her progress (if there is any), and Cincy/USO won't either if she flops out of every tournament until the end of the year playing pathetic tennis like she did against Dushevina. This is not a normal situation that one good tournament means you are making progress.. this is not someone coming up.. this is a 2 year!! slump. You can't treat it the same way.

And I still hope Ana can show up playing well and win matches in Tokyo, like she did when she played Vika in Rome/Cincy (though in one Vika was barely walking and in the other she choked with double faults galore while serving for the match twice.. some big luck played a part there, and Ana needs that!).You have a couple good points above but you're missing some obvious realities....Ana has ALWAYS been somewhat fragile;she was fragile even when she won 2008 RG and became #1...every loss doesn't automatically lead to a huge mental crisis.

I understand,and agree,that Ana needs to establish consistency in her career...but your expectations are bizarre and unrealistic right now.Yeah,it'd be great if she could string lots and lots of wins together...but she didn't do that so consistently even when she was at her best so,if she fails to do that NOW,it doesn't necessarily mean that Ana is totally failing in her comeback.Also,you'd have a hard time finding experienced professionals who agreed with your rigid,linear view of progress:It's VERY normal for human beings to do well...then suffer setbacks...and then achieve additional successes.Setbacks,in the opinion of most people,don't instantly erase the positive things that were achieved...just like Ana's loss to JJ didn't send her into a psychological,year-long funk.....

Your comment that I'd be happy with sporadic wins by Ana was stupid even in a facetious sense;obviously,you know better...and,btw,it's "subject to change",not "object of change"

bruce goose
Sep 25th, 2010, 04:54 PM
....Another few points that you overlook when referring to Ana's 'slump': Technically speaking,one could say that--based on her current ranking--Ana is still in her post RG 2008 slump...but there are a few major differences....Even at Wimby 2008,it was pretty clear that Ana didn't find much joy in tennis...and she's rediscovered that recently...even YOU admitted it....Also,Ana didn't have any reliable guidance when she first began slumping,and she has that now.Before,she was a rudderless ship,and now she's at least aware of what she needs and has trustworthy folks who'll help her get there.To ME...and to lots of respected tennis insiders who have more credibility than I do,those are important factors that distinguish "Original Slump Ana" from "Current Ana"

gaviotabr
Sep 25th, 2010, 05:08 PM
You have a couple good points above but you're missing some obvious realities....Ana has ALWAYS been somewhat fragile;she was fragile even when she won 2008 RG and became #1...every loss doesn't automatically lead to a huge mental crisis.

I understand,and agree,that Ana needs to establish consistency in her career...but your expectations are bizarre and unrealistic right now.Yeah,it'd be great if she could string lots and lots of wins together...but she didn't do that so consistently even when she was at her best so,if she fails to do that NOW,it doesn't necessarily mean that Ana is totally failing in her comeback.Also,you'd have a hard time finding experienced professionals who agreed with your rigid,linear view of progress:It's VERY normal for human beings to do well...then suffer setbacks...and then achieve additional successes.Setbacks,in the opinion of most people,don't instantly erase the positive things that were achieved...just like Ana's loss to JJ didn't send her into a psychological,year-long funk.....

Your comment that I'd be happy with sporadic wins by Ana was stupid even in a facetious sense;obviously,you know better...and,btw,it's "subject to change",not "object of change"

The thing is Bruce.. just because she was inconsistent when she was playing well doesn't mean that is a normal or good thing. Actually, it just might be the root of all the struggles now.. And being consistent might just be the only way of getting out of the slump. I have no expectations.. but if she flops every match until the end of the year, I do think the ups she had in Rome, Cincy and USO will have meant absolutely nothing in the big picture, in her quest to get out of the slump. She will remain in it, fighting herself.

Ana's inconsistencies.. losing 1st round after every title.. some bizarre ups and downs in concentration.. people say she always had that and will always be like that, like you imply now.. I see that as little signs of bad things to come. Those were the signs she could always fall on such abyss of a slump like she has in these past 2 years. Those were part of the root of all struggles.. they were overshadowed by huge desire and tunel like vision, but once that got into a crisis, these characteristics came up rising and took control. The only way out of this is to achieve a sustained good level.. to combat those bad signs.. if the ups and downs continue, unfortunately the downs will keep controlling and the ups will be each year smaller and less frequent.

bruce goose
Sep 25th, 2010, 05:36 PM
The thing is Bruce.. just because she was inconsistent when she was playing well doesn't mean that is a normal or good thing. Actually, it just might be the root of all the struggles now.. And being consistent might just be the only way of getting out of the slump. I have no expectations.. but if she flops every match until the end of the year, I do think the ups she had in Rome, Cincy and USO will have meant absolutely nothing in the big picture, in her quest to get out of the slump. She will remain in it, fighting herself.

Ana's inconsistencies.. losing 1st round after every title.. some bizarre ups and downs in concentration.. people say she always had that and will always be like that, like you imply now.. I see that as little signs of bad things to come. Those were the signs she could always fall on such abyss of a slump like she has in these past 2 years. Those were part of the root of all struggles.. they were overshadowed by huge desire and tunel like vision, but once that got into a crisis, these characteristics came up rising and took control. The only way out of this is to achieve a sustained good level.. to combat those bad signs.. if the ups and downs continue, unfortunately the downs will keep controlling and the ups will be each year smaller and less frequent.This is an excellent post above,but you misunderstood my intent in 1 or 2 aspects.I didn't mean that Ana's inconsistency and fragility were totally acceptable;don't you remember that we were the only ones here calling for a sports counsellor back in summer of 2008??I simply meant that Ana's inconsistency didn't mean that she was in the full depths of a slump...b/c she was like that even PRE-slump.

No,I agree that Ana eventually must raise her level of play,especially her mental level,even higher than it was previously....I just don't feel that it's realistic to demand or expect that before the end of 2010.Maturity isn't like a microwaveable meal that you can almost instantly prepare in 5 minutes or less;Ana might not attain that #1 level until 2012...but she has the right people to guide her now,and she realizes what her weaknesses are instead of denying them.Even if she chooses another scummy bf...which she probably will:lol:...she'll at least have Marija there as a voice of reason to keep her eyes open:)

Izzy,you can mock me--w/o fear of retaliation--if my prediction fails but,as you'll recall,I took NO pleasure in Wimby 2009's run b/c I saw it,from the beginning,for the fraud it really was.I'm not one of Ana's webpage stooges who predicts greatness at every minor step.I don't believe she's gonna return to the depths of that slump anymore...nor will she flop pathetically the rest of the year....EVEN if she loses to Alisa.Ana's gonna gradually make her way back...and the only things that would stop that would be some sort of Seles-type tragedy...or if she met some sort of Svengali who took her back to her negative mindset....I can't picture that,though:)

Time to stop chatting for a few hours,Izzy;I should sweep and mop my dusty place before my gf comes over:angel:....so now you can have some uninterrupted Contador Zorro Time if you'd like:hehehe:

doni1212
Sep 26th, 2010, 12:40 AM
Yeah,you're right,Aaron,so I'm sorry for being hard on you:hug:...it's just a little bizarre for me to see the mentality of so many posters here.You've probably seen me tease poster Doni because she's a Steelers fan...and I follow their arch-rivals.I wouldn't say that there was ANYthing masculine or dykey about Doni...and yet some of the guys here are more girlish than SHE ever is...including one who fantasizes so deeply about being Nole's girlfriend that,in his own words,he 'can't resist(slobbering over)Nole's "huge balls"':rolleyes:....To be more accurate,it's more like an unstable,adolescent 12-year-old gal mentality...instead of a more typical feminine one.

As I said before,sports are largely about competition...about accepting and overcoming challenges.If someone's so weak that they can't handle Ana's facing a tough opponent without proclaiming and sobbing profusely over her supposedly certain doom...then maybe they ought to take up a different hobby other than being a sports fan.In 2003,Doni's Steelers sucked while my Ravens were division champs,yet I seriously doubt that Doni said(though she was only a teen then) ::hysteric:"Why do we have to play the Ravens twice?They're gonna kill us:sobbing:"....Other than Henin and Serena,Ana has beaten every top player,and she's certainly capable of breaking through against those other two someday...so it's not as if Ana were a hopeless cause by ANY stretch,especially with the guidance she now has.Tbh,this is the only forum I've seen like this;Dinara is a MAJOR mental case,yet her fans don't spend two entire pages proclaiming the Apocalypse like the 'fans' here do....It's just truly bizarre to me,sometimes,when so-called fans shrink so much from the challenge of sports....I can't relate to that:shrug:

Interesting references of me, :lol:

bruce goose
Sep 26th, 2010, 01:29 AM
Interesting references of me, :lol:They were only positive comments,though:angel:.Since you're an Ana fan,I took it easy on you and didn't say much about 2003:p

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 26th, 2010, 01:32 AM
2003 the poster posts here? :eek: He's an MTF troll.:lol:

bruce goose
Sep 26th, 2010, 01:35 AM
2003 the poster posts here? :eek: He's an MTF troll.:lol:No,you misunderstood,Aaron;I don't even know who that guy is....I was referring to the 2003 NFL season when Doni's Steelers didn't do so well...but I diplomatically avoided making extensive comments on that;)

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 26th, 2010, 01:48 AM
^ Oh, understood. :)

InsideOut.
Sep 26th, 2010, 04:53 AM
Haven't posted here for a few days - was too pissed about the Dushevina match :o But great, Kleybanova again :o Don't get bagelled Ana :smash:

HowardH
Sep 26th, 2010, 09:37 AM
I'm expecting this to be a very stern test. Last time Kleybanova was in poor form, but not this time. So Ana will probably have to play very well. I'd say Kleybanova is slight favourite given their history and form, but Ana should have chances. Today Alisa had great stats in the first set but fell away quite a bit in the second, so if she lapses like that Ana will be in with a good shot.

Much depends on who is attacking whom. Ana must not get defensive or Alisa will boss her all over the court. Also Ana must serve well.

The thing is Bruce.. just because she was inconsistent when she was playing well doesn't mean that is a normal or good thing. Actually, it just might be the root of all the struggles now..

I see your point Izzy. It does seem to point to some underlying problems. Maybe it was even possible to predict Ana's slump knowing her tendencies to have almost inexplicably poor matches, immediately before or after playing well. It's true that as Bruce says Ana was always a bit unreliable, so before she was slumping she still had bad tournaments and bad losses. So that does mean that having a mixture of good and bad results doesn't necessarily mean in Ana's case that she is still fully slumping. But I do agree with you Izzy, I think she still is in a slump, it's just that now she doesn't have all bad results, but the odd good one. It's maybe not quite as deep a slump. She turned some kind of corner, but it wasn't THE corner.

When Ana was young people tended to think it was just because she was inexperienced and hadn't learned to be consistently good. But now that she has been playing for so many years, and acquired, in theory, more experience, her consistency has not improved at all, but has actually regressed.

Normally, players learn over time how to call on their best shots under pressure, with the exception of huge pressure situations which are difficult for even the most experienced players, also with the exceptions of people who instead learn how to choke and become habitual chokers under pressure. Champions in particular learn from pressure situations and improve their performances under pressure. Ana on the other hand has not been able to figure out how to play well when she needs to. It's as if the extra playing experience of the last few years has confused her rather than helping her understand how to play her best. She had some good tournaments this year but she still doesn't quite understand what she did to make that happen.

She has so many memories now of lost 4-0 leads in final sets, bad tosses everywhere, completely mistimed backhands, shanked fhs, that even when she plays well these old habits are in danger of returning. In a way then it might be important, as Izzy says, for Ana to try to start anew as a new player who can be reliable even in MMs, etc. Returning to her old mode of playing might be too difficult, because her memories of playing well are all mixed together with memories of playing horribly. It's not like a former great player coming back from rustiness and trying to remember how they played before. She didn't have a long enough consistent period of really high level play to establish something solidly in her memory. Even at her peak she had bad tournaments, so her memories of her peak years have mixed information for her.

In another way, you could say that in the last couple of years Ana acquired a lot of experience. Except it was experience in slumping. She remembers this, and when she steps on court instead of knowing the high level of play she is capable of achieving, she is aware of the low level of play she is capable of slumping to. So perhaps she has to avoid turning to her memories. She has to become a new Ana. I'm more and more thinking this is what she has to do, put the past behind her and start again. It seems a shame not to be able to rediscover the form that won her RG, but that was more than 2 years ago now. It's too long, her memory of how she did it is too blurry and mixed with the memory of slumping immediately afterwards. Maybe she needs to focus on starting afresh, putting all the past behind her, including her peak.

Having said that, it seems more and more likely that Ana's career from now on will be one with many mediocre results and just the odd good tournament. I'm not convinced she will ever learn to become consistently good, especially since she never achieved that before. It would be lovely for her if she did figure out how to do that, it might be what she needs to do if she ever want so really return to the top, I'm just saying it seems like it will be very difficult. If she never figures out how to control her level of play, the best she can probably hope for is the odd nice run in a slam, maybe with a nice draw. The real solution which could take her to the top level again might be to reinvent herself as a player who can play well all the time, but this may well prove to be too difficult.

Curtos07
Sep 26th, 2010, 10:41 AM
Ana plays the 5th and final match on Center Court tomorrow. Ridiculous, awful OOP....at least for me. :rolleyes: I hate this tournament.

http://www.toray-ppo.co.jp/tournament/pdf/2010wtaii_oop5.pdf

Cp6uja
Sep 26th, 2010, 11:57 AM
Ana plays the 5th and final match on Center Court tomorrow. Ridiculous, awful OOP....at least for me. :rolleyes: I hate this tournament.

http://www.toray-ppo.co.jp/tournament/pdf/2010wtaii_oop5.pdfSpeaking honestly it will be some kind of scandal actually if they not put Kleybanova, which won today Seoul title to not play last match tomorrow :shrug:

BTW this is perfect Tokyo time for follow for us from Europe :drool:

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 26th, 2010, 02:49 PM
Speaking honestly it will be some kind of scandal actually if they not put Kleybanova, which won today Seoul title to not play last match tomorrow :shrug:

BTW this is perfect Tokyo time for follow for us from Europe :drool:

Agreed.

Cp6uja
Sep 26th, 2010, 03:22 PM
Also this Centre Court night match will be TV covered at Eurosport (unlike Sharapova-Date for example, or any other R1 Tokyo match from today or tomorrow). So no reasons for us to complain about schedule.

gaviotabr
Sep 26th, 2010, 03:26 PM
Also this Centre Court night match will be TV covered at Eurosport (unlike Sharapova-Date for example, or any other R1 Tokyo match from today or tomorrow). So no reasons for us to complain about schedule.

Curtis complained because he might not be able to watch it.. so it's a bad time for him. ;)

I probably won't be able to watch it either, unless the match lasts under 1 hour. :sobbing: I have a class I can't miss tomorrow.

gaviotabr
Sep 26th, 2010, 03:31 PM
I'm expecting this to be a very stern test. Last time Kleybanova was in poor form, but not this time. So Ana will probably have to play very well. I'd say Kleybanova is slight favourite given their history and form, but Ana should have chances. Today Alisa had great stats in the first set but fell away quite a bit in the second, so if she lapses like that Ana will be in with a good shot.

Much depends on who is attacking whom. Ana must not get defensive or Alisa will boss her all over the court. Also Ana must serve well.



I see your point Izzy. It does seem to point to some underlying problems. Maybe it was even possible to predict Ana's slump knowing her tendencies to have almost inexplicably poor matches, immediately before or after playing well. It's true that as Bruce says Ana was always a bit unreliable, so before she was slumping she still had bad tournaments and bad losses. So that does mean that having a mixture of good and bad results doesn't necessarily mean in Ana's case that she is still fully slumping. But I do agree with you Izzy, I think she still is in a slump, it's just that now she doesn't have all bad results, but the odd good one. It's maybe not quite as deep a slump. She turned some kind of corner, but it wasn't THE corner.

When Ana was young people tended to think it was just because she was inexperienced and hadn't learned to be consistently good. But now that she has been playing for so many years, and acquired, in theory, more experience, her consistency has not improved at all, but has actually regressed.

Normally, players learn over time how to call on their best shots under pressure, with the exception of huge pressure situations which are difficult for even the most experienced players, also with the exceptions of people who instead learn how to choke and become habitual chokers under pressure. Champions in particular learn from pressure situations and improve their performances under pressure. Ana on the other hand has not been able to figure out how to play well when she needs to. It's as if the extra playing experience of the last few years has confused her rather than helping her understand how to play her best. She had some good tournaments this year but she still doesn't quite understand what she did to make that happen.

She has so many memories now of lost 4-0 leads in final sets, bad tosses everywhere, completely mistimed backhands, shanked fhs, that even when she plays well these old habits are in danger of returning. In a way then it might be important, as Izzy says, for Ana to try to start anew as a new player who can be reliable even in MMs, etc. Returning to her old mode of playing might be too difficult, because her memories of playing well are all mixed together with memories of playing horribly. It's not like a former great player coming back from rustiness and trying to remember how they played before. She didn't have a long enough consistent period of really high level play to establish something solidly in her memory. Even at her peak she had bad tournaments, so her memories of her peak years have mixed information for her.

In another way, you could say that in the last couple of years Ana acquired a lot of experience. Except it was experience in slumping. She remembers this, and when she steps on court instead of knowing the high level of play she is capable of achieving, she is aware of the low level of play she is capable of slumping to. So perhaps she has to avoid turning to her memories. She has to become a new Ana. I'm more and more thinking this is what she has to do, put the past behind her and start again. It seems a shame not to be able to rediscover the form that won her RG, but that was more than 2 years ago now. It's too long, her memory of how she did it is too blurry and mixed with the memory of slumping immediately afterwards. Maybe she needs to focus on starting afresh, putting all the past behind her, including her peak.

Having said that, it seems more and more likely that Ana's career from now on will be one with many mediocre results and just the odd good tournament. I'm not convinced she will ever learn to become consistently good, especially since she never achieved that before. It would be lovely for her if she did figure out how to do that, it might be what she needs to do if she ever want so really return to the top, I'm just saying it seems like it will be very difficult. If she never figures out how to control her level of play, the best she can probably hope for is the odd nice run in a slam, maybe with a nice draw. The real solution which could take her to the top level again might be to reinvent herself as a player who can play well all the time, but this may well prove to be too difficult.

So.. you also think she will be forever slumping.. 2 or 3 odd good tournaments out of 18 she plays in the year is something completely mediocre. This is actually being consistent.. consistently bad. :o

I do agree she would have to reinvent herself as a player. Start from 0, and learn how to play seriously and give her all in any match, no matter where or what. I'm afraid she could only do that by accepting to work very hard on her mentality.. and she doesn't seem to be interested in that.

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 26th, 2010, 03:32 PM
Match mostly depends on Alisa she's the one with the momentum. Let's hope she has an off day. :p

bruce goose
Sep 26th, 2010, 03:43 PM
With regard to Howard and Izzy,I agree that Ana needs to take that next step if she wants to be #1...but I think she will take that step eventually.IMO,you two aren't focusing enough on how immature Ana was(and still is at times);she's only 22 in a factual sense...closer to 18,really.

The difference before is that Ana never even realized the full scope of the problem...and now she does,with people who will be frank with her.She's never had that with her family or with Sven or the Adid-assholes...and she TRUSTS them,most importantly of all.I'm confident that Ana can at least get back to fringe Top 10 form,even w/o counselling...yet she'll HAVE TO address the mental issues more directly to be a true champion...and her team will remind her of that until she does

gaviotabr
Sep 26th, 2010, 03:47 PM
With regard to Howard and Izzy,I agree that Ana needs to take that next step if she wants to be #1...but I think she will take that step eventually.IMO,you two aren't focusing enough on how immature Ana was(and still is at times);she's only 22 in a factual sense...closer to 18,really.

The difference before is that Ana never even realized the full scope of the problem...and now she does,with people who will be frank with her.She's never had that with her family or with Sven or the Adid-assholes...and she TRUSTS them,most importantly of all.I'm confident that Ana can at least get back to fringe Top 10 form,even w/o counselling...yet she'll HAVE TO address the mental issues more directly to be a true champion...and her team will remind her of that until she does

Does she realize the full scope of the problem? Does she see all the patterns and knows what to do? I'm really not so sure Bruce. You trust Marija and Heinz WAY too much.

And what I'm saying is not for her to be number 1.. it's for her to snap out of the slump and be a top 20/15 player again. She is far away from getting out of the hole.

IvanovicTheBest
Sep 26th, 2010, 05:42 PM
JJ pls don't lose early,let it last for 3 hours,don't give up till you lose ... :)Than i can watch Ana :)

jelenacg
Sep 26th, 2010, 06:34 PM
There is a good chance ES will show this match but i`m not sure i want to watch it :tape:

bruce goose
Sep 26th, 2010, 06:59 PM
Does she realize the full scope of the problem? Does she see all the patterns and knows what to do? I'm really not so sure Bruce. You trust Marija and Heinz WAY too much.

And what I'm saying is not for her to be number 1.. it's for her to snap out of the slump and be a top 20/15 player again. She is far away from getting out of the hole.I think you're missing the big picture,Izzy;because Ana is such a creature of habit,she goes with whatever makes her feel comfortable...and she HAS that comfort level with Marija and Heinz.You said yourself that Ana is enjoying tennis for the first time in 2 years.Is that purely a coincidence??I don't think so....

If Ana changed absolutely nothing then,yeah,I agree that she'd get into a dangerous rut...but,once again,you have a very rigid linear view of Ana's progress...as if she's NEVER supposed to repeat certain mistakes---otherwise it means that she's doomed.You worried that her entire year would collapse following the Madrid loss,but she bounced back well in Cincy and the USO.You,apparently,aren't impressed at all...but I believe the old Ana would've used the Cincy injury as an excuse for the next 6 months...how it was such terrible luck,killed her momentum,blah,blah,blah...instead she had her best USO ever.

Ana could react two different ways when her team suggests a counsellor this offseason;she could get snotty and fire the "offenders"(the old Ana surely would have done so)....However,she's gone beyond admitting that she was stubborn(which she's done before);she now concedes that she has hurt herself by being TOO stubborn and close-minded.I think she'll resist the Counsellor Suggestion at first but,as she encounters situations that remind her of previous mental failures,she'll eventually realize her need and relent to the idea.Because she loves tennis again,she'll do what's necessary to help her regain and even exceed her previous level....................I understand your skepticism after 2 years of slumping,but I think your perspective is somewhat off here...that Ana must steadily increase her ranking to #30,then #25,then #20...otherwise she's failing completely.The path to personal growth just isn't that linear and clear-cut,Izzy

gaviotabr
Sep 26th, 2010, 07:51 PM
I think you're missing the big picture,Izzy;because Ana is such a creature of habit,she goes with whatever makes her feel comfortable...and she HAS that comfort level with Marija and Heinz.You said yourself that Ana is enjoying tennis for the first time in 2 years.Is that purely a coincidence??I don't think so....

If Ana changed absolutely nothing then,yeah,I agree that she'd get into a dangerous rut...but,once again,you have a very rigid linear view of Ana's progress...as if she's NEVER supposed to repeat certain mistakes---otherwise it means that she's doomed.You worried that her entire year would collapse following the Madrid loss,but she bounced back well in Cincy and the USO.You,apparently,aren't impressed at all...but I believe the old Ana would've used the Cincy injury as an excuse for the next 6 months...how it was such terrible luck,killed her momentum,blah,blah,blah...instead she had her best USO ever.

Ana could react two different ways when her team suggests a counsellor this offseason;she could get snotty and fire the "offenders"(the old Ana surely would have done so)....However,she's gone beyond admitting that she was stubborn(which she's done before);she now concedes that she has hurt herself by being TOO stubborn and close-minded.I think she'll resist the Counsellor Suggestion at first but,as she encounters situations that remind her of previous mental failures,she'll eventually realize her need and relent to the idea.Because she loves tennis again,she'll do what's necessary to help her regain and even exceed her previous level....................I understand your skepticism after 2 years of slumping,but I think your perspective is somewhat off here...that Ana must steadily increase her ranking to #30,then #25,then #20...otherwise she's failing completely.The path to personal growth just isn't that linear and clear-cut,Izzy

You are totally missing the point Bruce.. totally.. no, I don't expect her to raise linearly.. or get increasingly good results or improve her rankings that way.. No, I don't expect her to be number 1 again.. No, I never thought her results after Rome would mean she would flop the rest of the year.

I just don't think she is out of the slump or realizing all those stuff or that the people around her are working magic, like you seem to think. I don't think Ana has given enough signs to assure anyone that she is on her way up.. And I think having a base level is crucial to go into ANY true way up.. the problem in Seoul was not the loss in itself, was the way she lost.. it was pathetic.

I guess all the signs that I'm seeing is that Ana is becoming one of those mediocre players who have one or 2 odd good tournaments a year. Like Howard said: "Having said that, it seems more and more likely that Ana's career from now on will be one with many mediocre results and just the odd good tournament." The runs in Rome and Cincy/USO followed by pathetic ways of losing matches in Madrid and Seoul show just that.

Maybe the biggest difference between us is that I think she is far and away from getting out of the slump, and you think she is on her way out or already out of it. If you are coming up and you have those inconsistent results, it's fine.. each good tournament you manage to have is a progress and going in the right way. But if you are in such a deep 2 year slump, you have to see things in another way.. especially considering Ana's slump and her history as a player. If she doesn't acquire a base level of play and get somewhat consistent results, I don't think she will truly get out of this. I really believe consistency is crucial for Ana at the moment. It's consistency that can bring her back.

If she gets a good result in Tokyo and another one in Beijing.. then great.. but if she flops out of both early, then Cincy/USO will have proven to be nothing more than another odd good run in the middle of tons of bad ones.. and that Ana is still pretty much deep in the slump. The level of play and on court body language and attitude she had against Dushevina was so mediocre and pathetic, it won't cut it against anyone.. she will have to play much better and show a lot of fire and desire. You know.. if she loses in the first round of Tokyo and Beijing (which is a posibility), it will be the worst stretch of her whole career. :o

Having said that.. I hope you are right.. I really do..

bruce goose
Sep 26th, 2010, 08:19 PM
You are totally missing the point Bruce.. totally.. no, I don't expect her to raise linearly.. or get increasingly good results or improve her rankings that way.. No, I don't expect her to be number 1 again.. No, I never thought her results after Rome would mean she would flop the rest of the year.

I just don't think she is out of the slump or realizing all those stuff or that the people around her are working magic, like you seem to think. I don't think Ana has given enough signs to assure anyone that she is on her way up.. And I think having a base level is crucial to go into ANY true way up.. the problem in Seoul was not the loss in itself, was the way she lost.. it was pathetic.

I guess all the signs that I'm seeing is that Ana is becoming one of those mediocre players who have one or 2 odd good tournaments a year. Like Howard said: "Having said that, it seems more and more likely that Ana's career from now on will be one with many mediocre results and just the odd good tournament." The runs in Rome and Cincy/USO followed by pathetic ways of losing matches in Madrid and Seoul show just that.

Maybe the biggest difference between us is that I think she is far and away from getting out of the slump, and you think she is on her way out or already out of it. If you are coming up and you have those inconsistent results, it's fine.. each good tournament you manage to have is a progress and going in the right way. But if you are in such a deep 2 year slump, you have to see things in another way.. especially considering Ana's slump and her history as a player. If she doesn't acquire a base level of play and get somewhat consistent results, I don't think she will truly get out of this. I really believe consistency is crucial for Ana at the moment. It's consistency that can bring her back.

If she gets a good result in Tokyo and another one in Beijing.. then great.. but if she flops out of both early, then Cincy/USO will have proven to be nothing more than another odd good run in the middle of tons of bad ones.. and that Ana is still pretty much deep in the slump. The level of play and on court body language and attitude she had against Dushevina was so mediocre and pathetic, it won't cut it against anyone.. she will have to play much better and show a lot of fire and desire. You know.. if she loses in the first round of Tokyo and Beijing (which is a posibility), it will be the worst stretch of her whole career. :o

Having said that.. I hope you are right.. I really do..Actually,I'm NOT missing your points at all;I understood you PERFECTLY except for the one part where I thought you were demanding incremental improvements or bust.All of your points are based in decent logic,it's simply your time frame that's completely off...

YOU are measuring from the start of the slump...and that's where your mistake is.We should start measuring NOT even from when Heinz began coaching her...BUT FROM WHEN SHE BEGAN SHOWING LOVE FOR TENNIS AGAIN....THAT is our measurement baseline.Also,your expectations for improvement are still a bit too high.If you consider Ana as an emotionally immature 18-year-old--which is basically what she is--then it's unrealistic to expect major improvements within 12 months....even though I agree with you that those improvements are absolutely crucial...and that she can't be a top player without them.How many teenagers do you know that mature rapidly within a 12-month period??I haven't seen too many of them....Ana's occasional backslides won't automatically signify that she hasn't learned anything at all.

I'm really surprised that you don't see ANY signs that Ana has improved mentally;I agree that she still has MUCH to learn and hasn't truly ended her slump yet,but she's demonstrated some awareness that she never did before.Many of her comments are completely contrary to the B.S. excuses she always gave us previously,and they do NOT have a Versi flavor,IMO;they're signs that Ana is being honest with herself,finally.Yes,she'll almost surely need that counsellor next year....UNLESS she locates the answers within herSELF somehow...but,once again,I've met other "Anas" who recovered from similar roadblocks,and OUR Ana is showing me the same positive indicators...maybe that's why I'm less demanding about immediate on-court results.....You're free to mock me if I'm proven wrong:lol:

Curtos07
Sep 26th, 2010, 08:26 PM
Also this Centre Court night match will be TV covered at Eurosport (unlike Sharapova-Date for example, or any other R1 Tokyo match from today or tomorrow). So no reasons for us to complain about schedule.

Maybe no reason for you to complain, but it doesn't matter if there is a stream or not for some of us who won't be able to watch it either way.

gaviotabr
Sep 26th, 2010, 09:05 PM
Actually,I'm NOT missing your points at all;I understood you PERFECTLY except for the one part where I thought you were demanding incremental improvements or bust.All of your points are based in decent logic,it's simply your time frame that's completely off...

YOU are measuring from the start of the slump...and that's where your mistake is.We should start measuring NOT even from when Heinz began coaching her...BUT FROM WHEN SHE BEGAN SHOWING LOVE FOR TENNIS AGAIN....THAT is our measurement baseline.Also,your expectations for improvement are still a bit too high.If you consider Ana as an emotionally immature 18-year-old--which is basically what she is--then it's unrealistic to expect major improvements within 12 months....even though I agree with you that those improvements are absolutely crucial...and that she can't be a top player without them.How many teenagers do you know that mature rapidly within a 12-month period??I haven't seen too many of them....Ana's occasional backslides won't automatically signify that she hasn't learned anything at all.

I'm really surprised that you don't see ANY signs that Ana has improved mentally;I agree that she still has MUCH to learn and hasn't truly ended her slump yet,but she's demonstrated some awareness that she never did before.Many of her comments are completely contrary to the B.S. excuses she always gave us previously,and they do NOT have a Versi flavor,IMO;they're signs that Ana is being honest with herself,finally.Yes,she'll almost surely need that counsellor next year....UNLESS she locates the answers within herSELF somehow...but,once again,I've met other "Anas" who recovered from similar roadblocks,and OUR Ana is showing me the same positive indicators...maybe that's why I'm less demanding about immediate on-court results.....You're free to mock me if I'm proven wrong:lol:

We'll just have to agree to disagree.. What Ana has shown is simply not enough for me to have this trust... And keep this discussion up would be like talking to a wall.

I don't want to mock you.. I want you to be right. ;)

gaviotabr
Sep 26th, 2010, 09:07 PM
Maybe no reason for you to complain, but it doesn't matter if there is a stream or not for some of us who won't be able to watch it either way.

I'm with you there Curtis.. The match will be around 6:30/7:00 am my time, depending on how long the match before takes. I need to leave for class at 7:50 max. :sobbing: And it's really a class I can't miss.

bruce goose
Sep 26th, 2010, 09:12 PM
We'll just have to agree to disagree.. What Ana has shown is simply not enough for me to have this trust... And keep this discussion up would be like talking to a wall.

I don't want to mock you.. I want you to be right. ;)I hope you realize that I'm not ridiculing your points;as I said,they are intellectually reasonable...and I hope you also can draw a small measure of encouragement from the fact that I don't quickly rush to praise Ana w/o cause;you'll recall my reaction to her Wimby victories last year when everyone else was singing 'hallelujah'...and,btw,I won't gloat like Sjoerd did if Ana proves me right:lol:....I'll just be thankful that she made it:angel:

jelenacg
Sep 26th, 2010, 09:19 PM
I'm with you there Curtis.. The match will be around 6:30/7:00 am my time, depending on how long the match before takes. I need to leave for class at 7:50 max. :sobbing: And it's really a class I can't miss.

Life is sparing you some pain ,don`t fight it :lol:

bruce goose
Sep 26th, 2010, 09:40 PM
Maybe no reason for you to complain, but it doesn't matter if there is a stream or not for some of us who won't be able to watch it either way.Watching your Colts right now,Curtis....They have the featured 2 o'clock game here...don't like Josh McDaniel;he's like the phony blowhard Rennae Stubbs of the NFL:p.The Saints blocked an OT FG attempt vs. the Falcons...but the block didn't count b/c Sean Payton did that annoying Time-Out-a-Split-Second-Before-the-FG trick...and the Falcons MADE the second one:haha:....Thank you,Lord:worship:,for poetic justice.

Back on topic,I think we're gonna get an honest,concerted effort from Ana tonight....I won't go so far as to predict a win,but I think she'll at least push Alisa strongly....We'll see how badly/well my instinct compass is doing:p

doni1212
Sep 27th, 2010, 01:31 AM
Turnaround in Tokyo!!!

bruce goose
Sep 27th, 2010, 05:15 AM
Well,I've got to vent a bit b/c I'm quite disappointed in the WTA players:They got SOOOO drunk on saki at the Tokyo player party that they were too hung over to play the next day.Only Shvedova:angel: and Nara:angel: were responsible enough to drink in moderation,or not at all,so that they could compete.....You WTA chicas were very,very naughty at that party:crazy:

spiritedenergy
Sep 27th, 2010, 07:11 AM
ajde babygurl!!

Cp6uja
Sep 27th, 2010, 07:28 AM
If todays Centre Court 3-setters conspiracy continued at Radwanska and Jankovic matches... we will maybe not see today Ana on Eurosport :mad:

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 27th, 2010, 10:53 AM
JJ won, Ana's next!! :scared:


:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Turnaround in Tokyo!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 27th, 2010, 10:57 AM
I'm fuming over Masha's loss. :fiery: Ana losing as well will push me over the edge. :mad:

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 27th, 2010, 11:03 AM
Heinz is there.:hearts:

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:12 PM
6-3, 6-2 :woohoo: :bounce: :woohoo: :bounce:

Pretty solid match from Ana. Some great returns, good serving (no BPs :hearts:), good footwork, nice defense and an all around concentrated performance! :yeah:
Kleybs obviously made many mistakes and wasn't playing her best at all, but this takes nothing away from how well Ana played today. :D



:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Turnaround in Tokyo!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Dexter
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:13 PM
She looked good, but Alisa was visibly fatigued. I take it anyway.

Davodus
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:15 PM
She served well, returned well and hit her forehand very well...her backhand was a bit average, and Kleybanova was off...but she played well. Seems like Heinz being there made her remember how to play tennis again.

JamieOwen3
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:17 PM
Ana for the title, i refuse to let anyone ugly win it! no offence to most of the WTA Players :haha:

HowardH
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:18 PM
She looked good, but Alisa was visibly fatigued. I take it anyway.

Yes, I think Alisa looked a bit weary too. But Ana played very well, even spectacularly at times. The real test is to see what she produces next round. Or perhaps even next tournament. We know Ana is capable of this, but is she capable of producing it consistently? Looking at this match, it makes you shake you head and wonder what the heck she was doing against Dushevina. I still feel that spectacular Ana and crappy Ana are separated only by a small distance at the moment. This Ana needs to leave her twin far far behind.

jelenacg
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:18 PM
I am impressed :worship:
Very good performance.I remember in the past her FH was so good also bc the opponent never knew where she is going to hit it ...her FH is starting to look like that again :hearts:
Absolutely loved that cross court winner on a run ,that was so Rafa like of Ana :worship:

And for the last i hope tournaments won`t start suing players in the future bc they tanked ...or you Ana would be toasted :tape:

Curtos07
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:20 PM
I stayed up all night tonight. I thought I wouldn't see it but I did. Glad I did. Great performance. A complete 180 from last week. :bounce:

InsideOut.
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:37 PM
:spit: What was she smoking against Dushevina?

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:42 PM
Ana plays 2nd on Court 2 tomorrow.

*edit* As I understand it, the other matches are played somewhere indoors. Where do we get the results?:scratch: The scoreboard only shows Goerges/Dina :confused:

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:45 PM
Who's next?

InsideOut.
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:45 PM
Is she playing Bartoli or Wickmayer?

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:48 PM
I don't think the Bartoli/Wickmayer match has started yet.

http://www.toray-ppo.co.jp/scoreboard2010/0927/live_bt.php

InsideOut.
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:49 PM
Yes I just checked that as well...still, it's only 8.50 pm in Tokyo right now, and it's indoors, so it's OK.

This tournament is weird. :shrug: Why can't they just play it all indoor or all outdoor?

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 27th, 2010, 12:52 PM
^^Because it's raining and CC is the only court that has a roof.:lol:

If it wasn't raining, it would be an outdoor tournament. ;)

InsideOut.
Sep 27th, 2010, 01:04 PM
Bartoli won the first set 6-4.

Rovegun
Sep 27th, 2010, 01:11 PM
today Ana was easily great! I like her play.. her serve and forehands are fantastic! hope she will go as far as she is able....

jelenacg
Sep 27th, 2010, 01:44 PM
Don`t tell me we are stuck with these weird live scores tomorrow :tape:
And what`s happening in Bartoli/Wickmayer match??

Btw did you saw how Kleybanova took a long bathroom break after first set .Was anyone worried ?:tape::lol:

IvanovicTheBest
Sep 27th, 2010, 01:44 PM
Ahh i couldn't watch the match,anyway i'm so happy,as i can read she played amazing.Looking forward for the next round :)

Davodus
Sep 27th, 2010, 01:54 PM
Don`t tell me we are stuck with these weird live scores tomorrow :tape:
And what`s happening in Bartoli/Wickmayer match??

Btw did you saw how Kleybanova took a long bathroom break after first set .Was anyone worried ?:tape::lol:

I was worried :lol:, we know how Ana can let her mind race and lose concentration :lol: But she kept it together well :worship:

InsideOut.
Sep 27th, 2010, 01:54 PM
Bartoli wins - so it's a Stanford rematch.

jelenacg
Sep 27th, 2010, 02:04 PM
I was worried :lol:, we know how Ana can let her mind race and lose concentration :lol: But she kept it together well :worship:
I was also worried :lol: I read Curtis wrote on twitter something like `Get back on court Kleybanova` :rolls:
Bartoli wins - so it's a Stanford rematch.
So a rematch ...hopefully with a different winner this time

bruce goose
Sep 27th, 2010, 02:12 PM
Yes, I think Alisa looked a bit weary too. But Ana played very well, even spectacularly at times. The real test is to see what she produces next round. Or perhaps even next tournament. We know Ana is capable of this, but is she capable of producing it consistently? Looking at this match, it makes you shake you head and wonder what the heck she was doing against Dushevina. I still feel that spectacular Ana and crappy Ana are separated only by a small distance at the moment. This Ana needs to leave her twin far far behind.That's what I was trying to tell you,Howard;being consistent seems like such a logical step to some of us with regular jobs---but it's not so easy to achieve for young,immature athletes....and Ana is far from the only one...it goes beyond tennis,of course,too.Don't know when she's gonna achieve it,but I believe she eventually will........Yet it's NOT the end of the world if it doesn't happen before the close of 2010.This offseason will be VERY impactful for Ana,IMO...and that's when Heinz,Marija or BOTH of them will pitch the counsellor idea to Ana

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 27th, 2010, 02:32 PM
There were glimpses of peak Ana in this match.

gaviotabr
Sep 27th, 2010, 05:50 PM
Good match from Ana! I got 30 minutes late to class, but it was worth it.. :lol:

But it's still just a first round.. and Kleybs wasn't really playing great.. so let's keep things in perspective.

It will be a much tougher match against Bartoli tomorrow, and Ana will have to play really well to have a chance to win. She has to remember their Stanford match, see what her mistakes were and keep focused in avoiding them. I remember she could barely return Bartoli's serve, so the return will definitely be key.. Ana needs to return well against Bartoli, keep her under pressure. And obviously, as always, serve and forehand have to be working. Ana served very well today, needs to keep it up or even improve for tomorrow (cut down the DFs).

Pity we won't be able to watch it.. :(

gaviotabr
Sep 27th, 2010, 05:50 PM
:spit: What was she smoking against Dushevina?

That's THE question! :tape:

gaviotabr
Sep 27th, 2010, 05:53 PM
Don`t tell me we are stuck with these weird live scores tomorrow :tape:

We are.. :sobbing:

There are 90% of chance of rain tomorrow.. so Ana's match will probably be played indoors. That means we won't even get livescores.. they only update set scores.. like.. when a set finishes, they post the score of the set. :sobbing:

I think I'm just going to sleep through it and check in the morning.. if I can.. my body has some sort of Anadar, and I just can't sleep if she is playing.. :sobbing:

gaviotabr
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:01 PM
Yes, I think Alisa looked a bit weary too. But Ana played very well, even spectacularly at times. The real test is to see what she produces next round. Or perhaps even next tournament. We know Ana is capable of this, but is she capable of producing it consistently? Looking at this match, it makes you shake you head and wonder what the heck she was doing against Dushevina. I still feel that spectacular Ana and crappy Ana are separated only by a small distance at the moment. This Ana needs to leave her twin far far behind.

This.

We all know Ana can play some awesome, beautiful tennis. But as the Eurosport commentator said, most of the times she doesn't even play 20% of her A game. The real test is see how she does against Bartoli tomorrow.. and if she wins, how she does in the tournament overall. And even bigger test is how she does in China. To have a chance to definitely leave the slump behind, she absolutely needs some sort of consistently good results and level of play. I agree with you that great Ana and crappy Ana seem separated by a very thin line, but she needs to push crappy Ana away and make great Ana the standard choice of play.

One thing I realized as well.. Ana's attitude. There wasn't a single ajde today, but she was relaxed and focused at the same time. The moment she walked out on court I felt she had a chance, because she had that smile on her face. She was enjoying it even before the match started. Rewind to a week ago, and she had a freaked out scared expression when she walked out on court for the Dushevina match. The moment I saw that, I knew we were in trouble. I don't know what made the difference, but I think it's her attitude and her approach to the match that flips the coin between great Ana and crappy Ana. She has to learn how to control her emotions.

Also great to see Heinz around.

gaviotabr
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:06 PM
Also.. watching it on Eurosport, it was great to see the commentators just fawning over Ana.. saying how efforless she makes everything look when she is on, how great of a player she is when she plays well, how everyone has kind words to say about her.. almost rooting for her to do well. :)

I think it might've been Jo Durie commentating? I'm not sure.. but it was the same 2 people who did the Fed Cup tie in february, and I remember back then they were legitimately concerned.. and the lady even had a plan to help Ana if she was her coach. :lol:

mure
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:12 PM
well if she plays indoor tomorrow the result won't mean a thing as far as i'm concerned.She was supposed to play an outdoor toutnament,moreover Bartoli will have the advantage of having played there before :o

It's a solution to rain i guess but still it isn't fair for half players to play outdoors and half in a gym.

jelenacg
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:18 PM
We are.. :sobbing:

There are 90% of chance of rain tomorrow.. so Ana's match will probably be played indoors. That means we won't even get livescores.. they only update set scores.. like.. when a set finishes, they post the score of the set. :sobbing:

I think I'm just going to sleep through it and check in the morning.. if I can.. my body has some sort of Anadar, and I just can't sleep if she is playing.. :sobbing:

:lol:
I`m pretty sure i will sleep through also. No live streams,no live scores :tape:

I don't know what made the difference, but I think it's her attitude and her approach to the match that flips the coin between great Ana and crappy Ana. She has to learn how to control her emotions.

This is exactly how i think. Very small line between crappy and great Ana .God knows what make the difference...
Great to see Heinz there :angel:

gaviotabr
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:26 PM
well if she plays indoor tomorrow the result won't mean a thing as far as i'm concerned.She was supposed to play an outdoor toutnament,moreover Bartoli will have the advantage of having played there before :o

It's a solution to rain i guess but still it isn't fair for half players to play outdoors and half in a gym.

Everything has been played indoor so far.. it's just that center court has a roof.

I do agree that making them play in some other place is unfair.. especially because the surface might play differently.. but they have no choice. Tokyo has to have a saturday final.

If they indeed play indoors, then Bartoli definitely has the court advantage..

gaviotabr
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:29 PM
:lol:
I`m pretty sure i will sleep through also. No live streams,no live scores :tape:


This is exactly how i think. Very small line between crappy and great Ana .God knows what make the difference...
Great to see Heinz there :angel:

Hey Jelena!

I'll definitely try to sleep through it.. it will be like 2 or 3 am my time.. I hope I can. :lol:

Ana needs to learn how to control her emotions, so she gets some stability.. all the fluctuation in play is very much due to the fluctuation in attitude.

jelenacg
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:37 PM
all the fluctuation in play is very much due to the fluctuation in attitude.

This .
She couldn`t improve anything drastically in these few days...only her attitude changed
This match was everything i didn`t think it would be .Meh i will never understand her :lol:

gaviotabr
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:41 PM
This .
She couldn`t improve anything drastically in these few days...only her attitude changed
This match was everything i didn`t think it would be .Meh i will never understand her :lol:

Exactly.. her attitude changed. If she gets control over this, she can get some consistency of play and results.. and that is what can get her out of this 2 year slump.

Ana is a constant surprise.. when we think she can win, she loses.. when we think she will get beat up, she wins. :spit: But that is not good at all for a pro athlete. :help:

bruce goose
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:52 PM
Though I agree with some posters that Ana is capable of surprising us with unpredictable performances...it's really not strange at all.She's an emotional young gal who,like MANY others her age,is affected by what mood she's in...and moods tend to fluctuate greatly.The key is for her to be able to MANAGE those fluctuations so that she can play well even when she doesn't feel 100% in the mood to compete.THAT's where the mental discipline has to improve...and I think she's slowly making steps in that direction.I'm just not sure if she can take the bigger steps w/o the help of sports counselling.She MIGHT be able to find the answers within herself,but it would be probably be easier if she worked with an experienced pro

jelenacg
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:53 PM
Exactly.. her attitude changed. If she gets control over this, she can get some consistency of play and results.. and that is what can get her out of this 2 year slump.

Ana is a constant surprise.. when we think she can win, she loses.. when we think she will get beat up, she wins. :spit: But that is not good at all for a pro athlete. :help:

And it`s not good for our health either :o

Maria losing to Kimko :tape: That`s just wrong

JamieOwen3
Sep 27th, 2010, 06:55 PM
:crying2: Maria :hug:

However, Ana save the tournament and win it!

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Sep 27th, 2010, 07:06 PM
Too bad I couldn't see anything of it cause there are also people who have to work.
But no BP's faced and I mostly hear positive things about it.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/CelebZ/mickey-mouse-9.jpg

spiritedenergy
Sep 27th, 2010, 08:28 PM
well done anci!!!! I agree with all of you saying Ana has an evil twin, Sucky Ana:lol: She just needs to get rid of her:p

Davodus
Sep 28th, 2010, 02:59 AM
Also.. watching it on Eurosport, it was great to see the commentators just fawning over Ana.. saying how efforless she makes everything look when she is on, how great of a player she is when she plays well, how everyone has kind words to say about her.. almost rooting for her to do well. :)

I think it might've been Jo Durie commentating? I'm not sure.. but it was the same 2 people who did the Fed Cup tie in february, and I remember back then they were legitimately concerned.. and the lady even had a plan to help Ana if she was her coach. :lol:

it was Sam Smith, one of Ana's biggest fans :lol: She always has great things to say about Ana, and she actually has the right idea with what's wrong with Ana's game...she's one of the best commentators around (and she criticises Jankovic a lot :angel: )

hellas719
Sep 28th, 2010, 04:31 AM
Ana :woohoo:
Shot of the day :cool:

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 28th, 2010, 04:36 AM
I think we should give Ana's evil twin a name. :lol:

How about Lana?

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 28th, 2010, 04:36 AM
BTW for my new av I put Bruce's favourite moment in sporting history. :devil:

Davodus
Sep 28th, 2010, 04:47 AM
I think we should give Ana's evil twin a name. :lol:

How about Lana?

shitana :shrug: can'thitaballinthecourtana :p

spiritedenergy
Sep 28th, 2010, 05:12 AM
shitana :shrug: can'thitaballinthecourtana :p

shitana:lol: also suckana, errorana, halfassana:angel:

bruce goose
Sep 28th, 2010, 05:21 AM
BTW for my new av I put Bruce's favourite moment in sporting history. :devil:Yeah,it's a classic,Aaron:lol:...on his next trip to the AO,Fed should go get his legs waxed with Nik Riewoldt....In case you don't know who that is,he's the weepy laughingstock of the AFL,mocked by fans,announcers and other players alike.While the "guys" are getting their beauty treatments,Mirka can leave the baby with her mum and go on a quail-hunting trip with some REAL men:p

You're way late with your twin concept;don't you remember that the TRUE Ana was in cryogenic stasis at the Anapolis Memorial Grounds while her defective clone was imitating ITF players and following around some amateur-level swishy golfer??....Well,we found a cure for Ana's brain virus,released her from deep freeze,and sent the incompetent clone back to the lab for more fine-tuning.....NOW everything's okay except for those classic Ana mood swings that scare a few fans into thinking she's gonna duplicate the clone's W-L record....If you INSIST on naming the clone,then how about "EDJA".....'Ajde' spelled backwards;)

doni1212
Sep 28th, 2010, 05:33 AM
Turnaround in Tokyo!!! Keep it up Ana!

bruce goose
Sep 28th, 2010, 05:46 AM
Turnaround in Tokyo!!! Keep it up Ana!Yeah,it's ON this week,mi gringa dulce de piel oscura:p...in Western Pennsylvania:armed: AND Tokyo;)

doni1212
Sep 28th, 2010, 06:19 AM
Yeah,it's ON this week,mi gringa dulce de piel oscura:p...in Western Pennsylvania:armed: AND Tokyo;)

:devil: Estoy lista! Nosotros vamos a ganar!!!
Pero en realidad (en mi opinión), el equipo con la mejor defensa va a ganar...:shrug:

bruce goose
Sep 28th, 2010, 06:28 AM
:devil: Estoy lista! Nosotros vamos a ganar!!!
Pero en realidad (en mi opinión), el equipo con la mejor defensa va a ganar...:shrug:We had to use a different language to limit complaints that we were going off topic:lol:....Since Ana's off to a nice start in Tokyo,I suppose you could say that she had to do some "Seoul searching" after her loss in Korea:p

Davodus
Sep 28th, 2010, 06:48 AM
shitana:lol: also suckana, errorana, halfassana:angel:

Shitana errorvanovic :p

InsideOut.
Sep 28th, 2010, 09:31 AM
:cheer::cheer: Sensation in Beijing!!!!!!! :cheer::cheer:

Davodus
Sep 28th, 2010, 09:33 AM
Disgusting ana...disgusting. 3 games :o

jelenacg
Sep 28th, 2010, 09:38 AM
Sensation in Beijing :lol:
Ana has become Bartoli`s bitch ...pathetic

Curtos07
Sep 28th, 2010, 09:40 AM
I don't know if I should laugh or cry. I mean, how much more pathetic can you get than that? Bartoli hit 8 DF's, and had a first serve percentage of 42%, and still won easily. Ana meanwhile was 0/19 on Bartoli's 1st serve. Just wow. Didn't even held once in the 2nd set. This is coming after a match in which she faced zero break points.

She is so up and down. One match she is a disaster (Seoul), the next she looks great (Kleybs) then a disaster again. She is so inconsistent, but I guess that is better than being consistently bad like she has been much of the past two years.

mure
Sep 28th, 2010, 09:46 AM
Except for the win against Azarenka she can't even contest decent top 20 opponents let alone beat them.I don't know if it's psychological or whatever,that's up to her coach to find.At least she's established herself as a top 30-50 player now, able to beat other players of this calibre.At some point i thought her downfall would reach Vaidisova's lows(trying to find sth positive after another dissapointing tournament)

Mountain Ana
Sep 28th, 2010, 10:02 AM
Ana :help:
I'm soo happy this wasn't broadcasted... :lol:
Please recover and play better in Beijing

HowardH
Sep 28th, 2010, 10:03 AM
Sigh. Marion can play very good tennis to be sure, she's a quality opponent, but even so, to be beaten so badly. Marion was only landing 42% of first serves, just imagine what would have happened if she landed 60% or something. Her serves must have been huge or something. Winning 100% of first serve points, that's insane. Without seeing it it's hard to tell how much was Marion's serving and how much was Ana misfiring returns.

With no stream I can only guess, but Marion has played some great matches before- I hope this was one of them.

So, this is basically what we have to look forward to, unless one day Ana figures out how to play well on a consistent basis. Ana will play amazing tennis and then go down in flames the next day. But at least she's not always bad now. There's always a chance she will upset someone. She's become an upset queen, a kind of dangerous floater whom the seeds have to look out for. Before she was almost a walking bye. So this is improvement of a kind.

The other thing that I have been thinking, is that maybe at the moment Ana can only play well if the pressure is off, and if she has a lead which helps her stay relaxed. If the situation gets tense or she falls behind she returns to panic mode and is in big trouble.

gaviotabr
Sep 28th, 2010, 10:10 AM
Just woke up..

Wow.. only 3 games against Bartoli.. that's really poor... I knew I was right in putting things in perspective and not getting too excited about her win against Kleybs. The moment someone puts pressure on Ana, it seems she can't handle it. Losing 1 and 2 to Bartoli is pretty pathetic.. on par with her loss to Dushevina. She had to be returning like crap, because Bartoli is no Karlovic to go 100% on first serves.. :tape:

Ana is a funny specimen... the players she used to have worlds of trouble with are the ones she beats now. The ones who she used to own are the ones she loses to now.. Go figure.

Each day I'm more certain that Ana's attitude and approach to a match, her mentality, is absolutely crucial for how she will play. She needs help on that, or she will never be able to contend with good players anymore. Because all good players will pressure her.

Ana is still pretty much deep into the slump... and honestly, after Seoul and Tokyo, her chances of being seeded for AO are only about 10% IMHO. Pity..

bruce goose
Sep 28th, 2010, 10:22 AM
Sigh. Marion can play very good tennis to be sure, she's a quality opponent, but even so, to be beaten so badly. Marion was only landing 42% of first serves, just imagine what would have happened if she landed 60% or something. Her serves must have been huge or something. Winning 100% of first serve points, that's insane. Without seeing it it's hard to tell how much was Marion's serving and how much was Ana misfiring returns.

With no stream I can only guess, but Marion has played some great matches before- I hope this was one of them.

So, this is basically what we have to look forward to, unless one day Ana figures out how to play well on a consistent basis. Ana will play amazing tennis and then go down in flames the next day. But at least she's not always bad now. There's always a chance she will upset someone. She's become an upset queen, a kind of dangerous floater whom the seeds have to look out for. Before she was almost a walking bye. So this is improvement of a kind.It's the middle of the night here;I woke up to use the bathroom and then checked the shocking score:o....

One thing you can't lose sight of--despite the awfully bad result--is that we can't measure this loss in terms of Ana's being 22 years old with 5 years on Tour.Instead,we should measure it in terms of the LAST FOUR MONTHS when she JUST learned to enjoy playing tennis again.There was NO WAY that Ana was gonna improve prior to that during the early stages of her slump...and even tournaments where the RESULTS were okay(IW and Wimby 2009,e.g.)were deceptive b/c her level of play was actually fairly poor for much of those fluke runs.

Ana is showing improvement in pivotal areas...such as how she bounced back from an injury...how she regained her forehand power...most of all,how she regained her love of the sport...but it's gonna take more than FOUR MONTHS for Ana to UN-learn all of her old bad habits...even with a great coach like Heinz...so let's not overreact when Ana has a crappy relapse.....If she refuses to agree to any sports counselling in this offseason--and then starts the first few months of 2011 with the same exact inconsistency that she has NOW...and yet continues to refuse counselling help....THEN I'll be worried,too.....For NOW,I'm going back to bed;) with my hopes still high:)

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 28th, 2010, 10:29 AM
Come home from work to the most disgusting result ever. :o

spiritedenergy
Sep 28th, 2010, 01:04 PM
shitana showed up... probably wasn't amused by playing in a practice court...

gaviotabr
Sep 28th, 2010, 01:23 PM
From Ana's web:


Ana falls to Bartoli
Search this site:
Home › On Court › News

Ana slumped to a disappointing 6-2, 6-1 defeat to world No.14 Marion Bartoli in the second round of the Toray Pan Pacific in Tokyo. The 22-year-old was a shadow of the player who had beaten Alisa Kleybanova so convincingly just 24 hours earlier.

Morning rain in Tokyo caused uncertainty for the players, and at one stage Ana was scheduled to play in the early evening indoors. However, the rain cleared and enabled the 22-year-old to take to Court 2 in gloomy conditions.

Ana's play at times mirrored the bleak weather, as she netted far too many balls, although Frenchwoman Bartoli was excellent and never gave Ana time to settle. Indeed she broke in the opening game.

Ana was unable to find her range and fell to defeat in 78 minutes.

She now heads to Beijing for the China Open.


When even Ana's web says she played like crap and netted a whole bunch of balls, we know it's BAD. This must have been such an awful match!

All the schedule changes must have wreck havoc with her, and she was just not ready to play when she had to. Got broken to start it off, and then just got too nervous.. I can already see it.. UGH! This just shows how her head is her problem and she needs to get help ASAP.

Davodus
Sep 28th, 2010, 01:51 PM
I thought that when all the schedule changes were happening, I was like 'ah shit, Ana will never be able to concentrate through this'

Seriously, she needs to sort out her head, if the tiniest thing can make her have a horrid match :o

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 28th, 2010, 01:52 PM
Shitana sounds good.

Davodus
Sep 28th, 2010, 01:58 PM
I'm so creative, such a unique name :p

gaviotabr
Sep 28th, 2010, 04:11 PM
From facebook:

Ana Ivanovic Very bad day at the office but there's no time to dwell on this loss. I'm heading to China now and looking forward to playing on the Olympic Tennis Courts in Beijing.

I can only imagine how bad this must have been. I mean.. Ana always spins lossess to look as positive as possible.. she even said she didn't do much wrong against Kleybs at RG. :tape: For her to say this was a very bad day, she must have played some abysmal tennis. UGH!

gaviotabr
Sep 28th, 2010, 04:13 PM
I thought that when all the schedule changes were happening, I was like 'ah shit, Ana will never be able to concentrate through this'

Seriously, she needs to sort out her head, if the tiniest thing can make her have a horrid match :o

Yes.. she needs to fix her head otherwise her game just will never come together and the best she will be able to ask for is a spur of good play here and there.

spiritedenergy
Sep 28th, 2010, 04:39 PM
I thought that when all the schedule changes were happening, I was like 'ah shit, Ana will never be able to concentrate through this'

Seriously, she needs to sort out her head, if the tiniest thing can make her have a horrid match :o

yes ana is fragile:o like a flower:lol: really, every minimum unexpected thing causes her to deconcentrate...:o

InsideOut.
Sep 28th, 2010, 05:23 PM
At least Ana realized it was bad :shrug:

bruce goose
Sep 28th, 2010, 06:39 PM
At least Ana realized it was bad :shrug:Yeah,Ben,and that's another positive change that people here keep unfairly minimizing.All that atrocious denial in the past when she'd claim,as an excuse,that her opponent played Slam-winning tennis....THAT was a sign that her head was almost 100% out of it.Now she at least owns up to her mistakes....I think a lot of posters here don't really grasp what a big personal step that is for someone who has used denial as a crutch for her entire life.Unfortunately,it doesn't automatically translate into success on the tennis court,but it's one large step closer to Ana's accepting sports counselling help.Another example:

Let's compare two injuries,Wimby 2009 and Cincy 2010.I still believe,based on all of the evidence,that Ana had nothing more than a painful cramp vs. Venus...but if we take a HUGE leap of faith and trust the Versi/Ana version,the hypothetical muscle tear wasn't very serious....Ana admitted that VERBATIM....Yet look at the difference---With the first injury,Ana ridiculously blamed her defeat on that even though she was getting completely annihilated during the match...and then she used it as an excuse to write off the entire year while following some inbred,no-talent sleazebag on the golf course.Truth is,Ana wasn't even playing that well at Wimbledon...even the Stosur win wasn't vintage Ana.....In contrast,at Cincy Ana was showing clear signs of her old,classic self.When the injury hit,she had every reason to cry,"Why me?",and sink into a psychological rut.Instead,she had her best ever performance at one of her former places of torment,the USO,that had brought her nothing but bad memories...a place with gusty winds that have normally thrown Ana way off her game.I'm mystified that almost no other fans can distinguish the major difference above

I understand the frustration with Ana's losses cuz I feel it,too...just not to the same degree.Like I said,there was absolutely NO WAY that Ana was gonna show real improvement until she re-dedicated herself.Rome might have given Ana a small measure of confidence that she could find herself again,but we didn't start seeing tennis-loving Ana once more until around Wimbledon...and THAT'S where her comeback from the slump truly begins.However,expecting Ana to rapidly transform,and fully overcome her old negative tendencies so quickly,simply isn't realistic.If Ana opens up the 2011 Aussie swing in horrible fashion,THEN I'll be ready to consider more gloom and doom.Just as the 2008 and 2009 off-seasons had an awful effect on Ana,this next off-season will have the exact opposite effect

hellas719
Sep 29th, 2010, 02:46 AM
Ana :sobbing:

Marilyn Monheaux
Sep 29th, 2010, 10:40 AM
Bartoli has a shoulder injury and had to retire against Vika today.:spit: :sobbing:

cocco80
Sep 29th, 2010, 11:09 AM
Bartoli has a shoulder injury and had to retire against Vika today.:spit: :sobbing:

Just her luck.

ANaaaaaaaaa :sad:
How can you have such ups and downs from one day to another? Fix you head, already!

I don't know.. I think her main problem is that she cares too much. She should try yoga or something.

Lord Choc Ice
Sep 29th, 2010, 11:44 AM
She definitely used up all her form against Kleybanova. She played her best match in an effort to get past R1 and didn't have anything left for R2. :o

AbyssII
Sep 29th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Bartoli has a shoulder injury and had to retire against Vika today.:spit: :sobbing:

Barto has a viral illness

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 01:03 PM
Bartoli retired... so not surprising.. :tape: And now Vika has Coco Vandeweghe to get to the semis.

What an opportunity wasted! :help: But then again, what opportunity Ana didn't waste in the past 2 years? None.. :o

The match against Bartoli must have been a complete unfocused mess.. she did all the work really.. :tape::o

Now 2 tournaments left until off season.. another titleless year... :o Actually, by FAR, the worst of Ana's career.. hopefully this was the lowest point.. :unsure:

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 01:16 PM
She definitely used up all her form against Kleybanova. She played her best match in an effort to get past R1 and didn't have anything left for R2. :o

Nah.. I'm sure she had it.. she just couldn't concentrate after being rushed to play.. at one point she was not going to play for another 3 hours.. and then the next moment, she was going to play in 30 minutes in another venue. Too much for Ana's fragile psyche. She couldn't refocus in time, and rushed through everything, shots and match.

Ana is one of those players who needs her head to be there and 100% focused to play well, otherwise everything is a big fail. She is not one to use her brain at will or to adapt to situations.. that was something she had been learning in the past, and it's crucial for a top player, but it's not natural to her. Someone said it on twitter that 13 of Ana's last 15 matches were easy 2 setters, win or losses. Exceptions being the match against Vika in Cincy and against Dushevina in Seoul. So the rule is that Ana is either there, focused, playing well and thus winning, or unfocused, playing like crap and losing easily. All about the head.. people actually can learn mechanisms to create a base level for mind and play, but Ana seems so against getting help for that, that I'm not sure she will ever achieve it. Without that base level, she won't ever have control over her mind and emotions, and much less over her game. It will always be a flavor of the day thing, and that's just not enough to be a good player.

jelenacg
Sep 29th, 2010, 01:43 PM
^^
It actually makes sense when you put it that way
I don`t agree that this year was the worst in Ana`s career .Sure tennis results wise but now(maybe i`m fooling myself) she at least has some level of play .
It`s not top 10-20 level but at least she has a base and something to keep improving on imo .Ana didn`t have that for more than a year :tape:

And i don`t care how but Ana please win a few matches in next 2 tournaments ...

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 01:43 PM
I was thinking about something Sam Smith said the other day while commentating Ana's match against Kleybs for Eurosport. She said it always looked like to her that Ana was not really aware of what was going on on court, like.. she plays her game, but she doesn't really see what the opponent is doing and how to use it to her advantage. That is so true.. how many times did Ana play a match against someone struggling physically, and she was incapable of seeing that and making the opponent run and play another ball... she would just go hitting bang bang boom, out or at the net. Ana is very talented and definitely has a great game.. unfortunately she wasn't born with a tennis brain.

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 01:52 PM
^^
It actually makes sense when you put it that way
I don`t agree that this year was the worst in Ana`s career .Sure tennis results wise but now(maybe i`m fooling myself) she at least has some level of play .
It`s not top 10-20 level but at least she has a base and something to keep improving on imo .Ana didn`t have that for more than a year :tape:

And i don`t care how but Ana please win a few matches in next 2 tournaments ...

Hey Jelena!

I do think 2010 as a whole is by far Ana's worst year. By very far.. I don't think she has had a lower level than what she showed at times this year. Sure.. second half of 2009 until Rome 2010 was the worst period of Ana's career ever.. But I would still take first half of 2009 over any of 2010, she was still a competitive player. She was still making competitive matches against anyone... So looking as a whole, 2009 was still better than 2010.. and points and results tell that as well.

I don't think Ana has any sort of base level of play now.. actually, that's something that is really missing. She can play great, but she can come back the other day and play completely awful, almost new lows for her, like against Dushevina or what it must have been against Bartoli. There is no base.. and she is not trying to be competitive and adapt in her losses, it's just plain ugly.

About the next 2 tournaments.. I don't have much hope honestly. China Open will be tough, as she can meet anyone in the first round. And then Luxembourg is a MM and we know how that works.. :o

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 01:52 PM
Will 2010 be the first year in Ana's career that she doesn't even make a tournament final? New low for sure.

AbyssII
Sep 29th, 2010, 02:24 PM
Even if it means play 5 (or 6?) tournaments in a row, Ana SHOULD play at Linz.
She plays only 1 (or two) match(es) by tournament since USO, and IMO there will be no changment. Hope that Bali will offer her a WC, but I don't think so, seeing her bad results

bruce goose
Sep 29th, 2010, 02:40 PM
Hey Jelena!

I do think 2010 as a whole is by far Ana's worst year. By very far.. I don't think she has had a lower level than what she showed at times this year. Sure.. second half of 2009 until Rome 2010 was the worst period of Ana's career ever.. But I would still take first half of 2009 over any of 2010, she was still a competitive player. She was still making competitive matches against anyone... So looking as a whole, 2009 was still better than 2010.. and points and results tell that as well.

I don't think Ana has any sort of base level of play now.. actually, that's something that is really missing. She can play great, but she can come back the other day and play completely awful, almost new lows for her, like against Dushevina or what it must have been against Bartoli. There is no base.. and she is not trying to be competitive and adapt in her losses, it's just plain ugly.

About the next 2 tournaments.. I don't have much hope honestly. China Open will be tough, as she can meet anyone in the first round. And then Luxembourg is a MM and we know how that works.. :oThat contradicts what you posted previously;when Ana made the IW 2009 final,you posted that Ana's overall level was crappy,that her FH lacked power,and that she was lucky to slide by weak or out-of-form opponents....and you were RIGHT.In contrast,Ana showed true flashes of her old self both at Cincy,the USO...and in the 1R vs. Kleybanova.We agree that it won't mean anything unless Ana can establish consistency,but I disagree that she demonstrated any peak form in the first half of 2009

jelenacg
Sep 29th, 2010, 02:57 PM
Hey Jelena!

I do think 2010 as a whole is by far Ana's worst year. By very far.. I don't think she has had a lower level than what she showed at times this year. Sure.. second half of 2009 until Rome 2010 was the worst period of Ana's career ever.. But I would still take first half of 2009 over any of 2010, she was still a competitive player. She was still making competitive matches against anyone... So looking as a whole, 2009 was still better than 2010.. and points and results tell that as well.

I don't think Ana has any sort of base level of play now.. actually, that's something that is really missing. She can play great, but she can come back the other day and play completely awful, almost new lows for her, like against Dushevina or what it must have been against Bartoli. There is no base.. and she is not trying to be competitive and adapt in her losses, it's just plain ugly.

About the next 2 tournaments.. I don't have much hope honestly. China Open will be tough, as she can meet anyone in the first round. And then Luxembourg is a MM and we know how that works.. :o

Hey Izzy :) Sorry for taking me so long to respond but my connection sucks :o
Maybe you are right but i`ll try to explain how i see it
In 2009 Ana still had some confidence from 2008 ,she still had better ranking bc of 2008 and Ana was getting better draws
She started a year with awful level of play ,playing defensive tennis...better say pathetic .Then we had period with Kardon and net rushing and absolutely no controls over her emotions on court .Highlights of that were 2 matches she lost after having 4-1 lead in third set .One of those matches was against one of the biggest headcases on tour Petrova :help::help:
And after that we had good Wimbledon and period known as `i don`t want to play tennis anymore ` :o
Now Ana at least found her love for tennis again,she is practicing,doesn`t wag ... Tennis is #1 again in her life .
I do think she has some level of play,but it can drop or raise depending on her head :rolleyes: Her head is still a big problem but she loves tennis again and is willing to commit to it
So 2010>>2009 in that sense

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 04:32 PM
That contradicts what you posted previously;when Ana made the IW 2009 final,you posted that Ana's overall level was crappy,that her FH lacked power,and that she was lucky to slide by weak or out-of-form opponents....and you were RIGHT.In contrast,Ana showed true flashes of her old self both at Cincy,the USO...and in the 1R vs. Kleybanova.We agree that it won't mean anything unless Ana can establish consistency,but I disagree that she demonstrated any peak form in the first half of 2009

It's no contradiction.. I didn't say Ana's level of play in 2009 was great or that she showed peak form. What I said is that she was more competitive, and I still think she was.. Except for a choking Vika and a tanking Kleybs Ana has beaten no decent opponent so far in those matches. Whenever someone puts a tiny bit of pressure on her or plays remotely well, she crumbles and loses pathetically. So yeah, I would take the first half of 2009 over anything in 2010.

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 04:45 PM
Hey Izzy :) Sorry for taking me so long to respond but my connection sucks :o
Maybe you are right but i`ll try to explain how i see it
In 2009 Ana still had some confidence from 2008 ,she still had better ranking bc of 2008 and Ana was getting better draws
She started a year with awful level of play ,playing defensive tennis...better say pathetic .Then we had period with Kardon and net rushing and absolutely no controls over her emotions on court .Highlights of that were 2 matches she lost after having 4-1 lead in third set .One of those matches was against one of the biggest headcases on tour Petrova :help::help:
And after that we had good Wimbledon and period known as `i don`t want to play tennis anymore ` :o
Now Ana at least found her love for tennis again,she is practicing,doesn`t wag ... Tennis is #1 again in her life .
I do think she has some level of play,but it can drop or raise depending on her head :rolleyes: Her head is still a big problem but she loves tennis again and is willing to commit to it
So 2010>>2009 in that sense

We can agree to disagree then.. ;)

I'm not saying 2009 was a good year.. faaaaar from that. It sucked. But 2010 sucked way more. First half of 2009 showed Ana was still competitive, she could play against good opponents and compete toe to toe, even if she didn't win. Now whenever she plays someone who is actually playing decent tennis, she gets completely crushed. In 2009 Ana had some good matches, like against Serena in Dubai or Schiavone in Rome or Stosur at Wimbledon. She made a meal of a couple of matches, like those chokes against ARad in Rome and Petrova in Eastbourne.. but she was still being able to compete against good players. Even during the "I don't like playing tennis" phase, most losses were competitive enough and the level of play was a bit higher than some 2010 tournaments. Now think 2010.. think AO, think Fed Cup, 2 and 4 loss to Sevastova in IW, those uncompetitive losses to Radwanska, crushed by Kleybs on clay, crushed by Peer on grass, pathetic loss to Dushevina.. Losses in the first 2 rounds in 12 out of 16 tournaments played.. worst Win-loss record of her career, worst grand slam performances of her career, ... worst level of tennis she has ever had, ever, during Fed Cup, RG and Wimbledon. Ana might be rededicating herself to tennis now, but the effects aren't really showing yet. So all in all.. considering whole year.. 2010 is definitely by FAR the worst year of Ana's career.

The only thing that would make me change my mind is Ana winning a title. But the most likely thing to happen is for her to end the year without even reaching a final, also a new career low.

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 04:49 PM
Even if it means play 5 (or 6?) tournaments in a row, Ana SHOULD play at Linz.
She plays only 1 (or two) match(es) by tournament since USO, and IMO there will be no changment. Hope that Bali will offer her a WC, but I don't think so, seeing her bad results

Maybe she should play Linz.. but we know she won't.. :shrug:

Considering her disdain for MM tournaments, I wouldn't give her a Bali WC.. I would like her to play there, but she doesn't show enough respect for MM tournaments to deserve a WC.

jelenacg
Sep 29th, 2010, 05:54 PM
We can agree to disagree then.. ;)

I'm not saying 2009 was a good year..

Trust me i know :lol:

Anyway ,i`m not saying 2010 is a good year tennis result wise .
What i`m trying to say is that since the end of 2008 and her `off season preparation` her level of tennis and attitude on court have been constantly dropping .Until it reached level she didn`t want to play anymore :o
Her results in 2010 couldn`t be better simply bc she spent months away from tennis,not working on her game and her head was god know where :rolleyes: .That`s why 2010 has so many new lows as you pointed out .No one is denying that .But all these lows are caused by her previous attitude
If she continues practicing and working on her game it will eventually pay off in the future .Hard work and commitment always pays off.And she showed that in 2010
I`m not saying she is or will be out of slump .No one can assure that.
I`m just saying that until one point her game and everything have only been sinking lower and lower .Now despite her stupid loses (she is still a headcase) i think her game is finding some level.I think that her free fall has been stopped
So from the aspect of her future 2010>2009 bc 2009 since Wimbledon was a disaster and 2010 isn`t

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 06:32 PM
Trust me i know :lol:

Anyway ,i`m not saying 2010 is a good year tennis result wise .
What i`m trying to say is that since the end of 2008 and her `off season preparation` her level of tennis and attitude on court have been constantly dropping .Until it reached level she didn`t want to play anymore :o
Her results in 2010 couldn`t be better simply bc she spent months away from tennis,not working on her game and her head was god know where :rolleyes: .That`s why 2010 has so many new lows as you pointed out .No one is denying that .But all these lows are caused by her previous attitude
If she continues practicing and working on her game it will eventually pay off in the future .Hard work and commitment always pays off.And she showed that in 2010
I`m not saying she is or will be out of slump .No one can assure that.
I`m just saying that until one point her game and everything have only been sinking lower and lower .Now despite her stupid loses (she is still a headcase) i think her game is finding some level.I think that her free fall has been stopped
So from the aspect of her future 2010>2009 bc 2009 since Wimbledon was a disaster and 2010 isn`t

But if we are thinking future then 2011 can be a better year.. I'm not talking about her future. I'm talking about her 2010 tennis year, we have to take into account the whole year, and that has been by far her worst IMHO.

I also don't agree with this: "If she continues practicing and working on her game it will eventually pay off in the future .Hard work and commitment always pays off.And she showed that in 2010."

There are many hard working people out there who have no success.. hard work not always pay off. IF she keeps working hard, but doesn't work on what she needs to, she will keep having crappy results. What hard work payed off this year? Cincy/USO? She can always have a couple of good weeks here and there, as anyone.. it's not representative of anything if it's followed and preceded by tons of awful weeks. I also think there is no level of play.. it's a surprise box.. can be good or reach new lows.. but mostly bad whenever she faces decent opposition.

bruce goose
Sep 29th, 2010, 07:44 PM
It's no contradiction.. I didn't say Ana's level of play in 2009 was great or that she showed peak form. What I said is that she was more competitive, and I still think she was.. Except for a choking Vika and a tanking Kleybs Ana has beaten no decent opponent so far in those matches. Whenever someone puts a tiny bit of pressure on her or plays remotely well, she crumbles and loses pathetically. So yeah, I would take the first half of 2009 over anything in 2010.Well,you have a VERY bizarre mentality sometimes,Izzy...in addition to being incredibly pessimistic;you make excuses for Ana's positive wins so that you can justify your mindset...you're ignoring the first-ever win over Elena,DEFINITELY a quality opponent

I saw Ana's 2009 Brisbane match vs. Mauresmo,and there was NOTHING competitive about it...she looked like a disinterested corpse to me.You're entitled to your opinion,but you're in an EXTREMELY small minority who think that Ana was better when she had no love or commitment to the sport.You also conceded that she showed flashes of her old self this year...and I didn't see ANY of that in 2009 with the possible exception of the Stosur match at Wimbledon....ONE MATCH!...and,tbh,I couldn't watch that match b/c I was so disgusted with Ana at the time...so I'm not sure that she played so well there...or maybe it was Stosur's strange incompetence on grass(for such a big server).

How in the HELL is re-discovering her joy for the sport a minor step??I'll agree that the first half of 2010 was the worst tennis ever,but she redeemed that somewhat by starting the process,however slowly,of working her way back and finding her love for tennis...and that counts for a LOT more than all those imaginary competitive matches you referred to from 2009.From what AYE saw,those close scores resulted from the fact that elite players could half-ass it vs.Ana;they wouldn't even waste energy trying their best b/c they knew they could turn it on whenever they wanted to beat Ana.Sorta like when the U.S. basketball team faces an overmatched opponent.They play on cruise control cuz they don't have to go all-out to win.Maybe you watched Ana play checkers with her brother--and THAT was the 'competitive play' you meant.....It's so f--king amazing:confused: to me that you call yourself a fan...and yet you get NO pleasure at all from the fact that Ana is at least trying this year...as opposed to the WAGging-for-inbreds bullshit we saw LAST year

Lastly,you know as well as anyone that Ana has the maturity level of an 18-year-old...largely thanks to Dragana and Pops....and it defies logic that you'd expect her to suddenly mature in just a few months.She wasn't gonna show ANY improvement whatsoever until she re-committed herself...and that only happened very recently.I understand that you WANT Ana to get her head together,but wishing and getting are 2 different things....Even some of the writers you like best--the ones you constantly quote--agree with me that Ana is showing a few promising signs...as opposed to zero positives in 2009......but,hey,go dwell in the abyss of despair if you insist;I think you enjoy it sometimes:lol:

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 08:10 PM
Well,you have a VERY bizarre mentality sometimes,Izzy...in addition to being incredibly pessimistic;you make excuses for Ana's positive wins so that you can justify your mindset...you're ignoring the first-ever win over Elena,DEFINITELY a quality opponent

I saw Ana's 2009 Brisbane match vs. Mauresmo,and there was NOTHING competitive about it...she looked like a disinterested corpse to me.You're entitled to your opinion,but you're in an EXTREMELY small minority who think that Ana was better when she had no love or commitment to the sport.You also conceded that she showed flashes of her old self this year...and I didn't see ANY of that in 2009 with the possible exception of the Stosur match at Wimbledon....ONE MATCH!...and,tbh,I couldn't watch that match b/c I was so disgusted with Ana at the time...so I'm not sure that she played so well there...or maybe it was Stosur's strange incompetence on grass(for such a big server).

How in the HELL is re-discovering her joy for the sport a minor step??I'll agree that the first half of 2010 was the worst tennis ever,but she redeemed that somewhat by starting the process,however slowly,of working her way back and finding her love for tennis...and that counts for a LOT more than all those imaginary competitive matches you referred to from 2009.From what AYE saw,those close scores resulted from the fact that elite players could half-ass it vs.Ana;they wouldn't even waste energy trying their best b/c they knew they could turn it on whenever they wanted to beat Ana.Sorta like when the U.S. basketball team faces an overmatched opponent.They play on cruise control cuz they don't have to go all-out to win.Maybe you watched Ana play checkers with her brother--and THAT was the 'competitive play' you meant.....It's so f--king amazing:confused: to me that you call yourself a fan...and yet you get NO pleasure at all from the fact that Ana is at least trying this year...as opposed to the WAGging-for-inbreds bullshit we saw LAST year

Lastly,you know as well as anyone that Ana has the maturity level of an 18-year-old...largely thanks to Dragana and Pops....and it defies logic that you'd expect her to suddenly mature in just a few months.She wasn't gonna show ANY improvement whatsoever until she re-committed herself...and that only happened very recently.I understand that you WANT Ana to get her head together,but wishing and getting are 2 different things....Even some of the writers you like best--the ones you constantly quote--agree with me that Ana is showing a few promising signs...as opposed to zero positives in 2009......but,hey,go dwell in the abyss of despair if you insist;I think you enjoy it sometimes:lol:

And how is all that relevant to making 2010 any better tennis year level of play or results wise? You mention one uncompetitive match last year against Mauresmo.. yes, that sucked.. this year she had about 10 of those against worse opponents.. :shrug: And few times I've seen Dementieva play worse than in that first set against Ana in Rome.

I'm not talking about Ana's attitude here.. yes, her getting a tiny bit of love for tennis back is great, but that is not enough to make 2010 any better year.. it hasn't been followed by results or performances against quality opposition.. it's still the worst she has ever done on a tennis court since she became pro. It might, and I hope it does, make 2011 a good year.. but all that is yet to be seen.

And I never claimed to be in the majority of opinions.. I stand for MY opinion and MY opinion alone. As for the rest.. whatever you say Bruce.. sometimes it's just not worth discussing.. :rolleyes:

bruce goose
Sep 29th, 2010, 08:41 PM
And how is all that relevant to making 2010 any better tennis year level of play or results wise? You mention one uncompetitive match last year against Mauresmo.. yes, that sucked.. this year she had about 10 of those against worse opponents.. :shrug: And few times I've seen Dementieva play worse than in that first set against Ana in Rome.

I'm not talking about Ana's attitude here.. yes, her getting a tiny bit of love for tennis back is great, but that is not enough to make 2010 any better year.. it hasn't been followed by results or performances against quality opposition.. it's still the worst she has ever done on a tennis court since she became pro. It might, and I hope it does, make 2011 a good year.. but all that is yet to be seen.

And I never claimed to be in the majority of opinions.. I stand for MY opinion and MY opinion alone. As for the rest.. whatever you say Bruce.. sometimes it's just not worth discussing.. :rolleyes:Again,you offer more of your whiny excuses for Ana's successes that you use to justify your philosophy that Ana is getting worse and worse with ZERO hope for improvement.From a purely intellectual standpoint,you can grasp that your lack of support amongst knowledgeable tennis writers gives the rest of us at least SOME reason to question the extra-low credibility of your beliefs:p....You remind me sometimes of Louis Farrakhan's group,the Nation of Islam.Having lived in the U.S.,I know that life for many American blacks isn't so sweet...yet they can see slow signs of progress that give them reason for hope.However,Farrakhan's crew are seeking militants,so they spin this warped ideology that life is WORSE for blacks now than it was during slavery.According to their teachings,the psychology manipulation of the government leads to mental oppression that makes slavery in cotton fields a better way of life than the current one is....Sorta like YOU say that an Ana who quit on the second half of 2009 was a better player...and 'more competitive'...than the one who has regained her FH power,improved her serve,and gotten more physically fit:lol:.You conveniently forget to mention that the great majority,the worst,of Ana's tank matches happened much earlier this year.

You can dredge up more excuses...which I'm SURE you will:p...but 2010 has seen Ana beat a Top 10 opponent after losing the first set....beat foes who have dominated her in the past...bounce back from injury without losing any rhythm.In the eyes of MOST tennis fans not named Isabela,those would be considered positive accomplishments...though I realize that those steps run counter to your ideology,so you've got to discredit them somehow:lol:......Oh,btw,and you can ask one of your profs if you don't believe me......When you get defensive if someone disagrees with you,it makes it appear that you lack deep conviction in your arguments;)

gaviotabr
Sep 29th, 2010, 08:50 PM
Again,you offer more of your whiny excuses for Ana's successes that you use to justify your philosophy that Ana is getting worse and worse with ZERO hope for improvement.

When did I say this? Quote me. I just said that I hope her showing some more love for the game results in a good 2011. I also never said she was getting worse and worse. Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? :o

From a purely intellectual standpoint,you can grasp that your lack of support amongst knowledgeable tennis writers gives the rest of us at least SOME reason to question the extra-low credibility of your beliefs:p....You remind me sometimes of Louis Farrakhan's group,the Nation of Islam.Having lived in the U.S.,I know that life for many American blacks isn't so sweet...yet they can see slow signs of progress that give them reason for hope.However,Farrakhan's crew are seeking militants,so they spin this warped ideology that life is WORSE for blacks now than it was during slavery.According to their teachings,the psychology manipulation of the government leads to mental oppression that makes slavery in cotton fields a better way of life than the current one is....Sorta like YOU say that an Ana who quit on the second half of 2009 was a better player...and 'more competitive'...than the one who has regained her FH power,improved her serve,and gotten more physically fit:lol:.You conveniently forget to mention that the great majority,the worst,of Ana's tank matches happened much earlier this year.

Where did I say that? I said that from Wimbledon 2009 to Rome 2010 was the worst period of Ana's career.. I never said the player who quit in 2009 was a better player. What I'm saying is that if you look at the year as a whole, from start to finish, from january to now.. 2010 had lots of worse play and attitude than 2009. Yes, for the last month or so Ana showed she is trying more.. but it's not like she has been playing great or winning plenty of matches to make this year any better than 2009. Actually, in 2009 she won more matches and lost less... so you figure. Maybe this improvement in attitude will help 2011's cause, but it doesn't change 2010 as a whole.

You can dredge up more excuses...which I'm SURE you will:p...but 2010 has seen Ana beat a Top 10 opponent after losing the first set....beat foes who have dominated her in the past...bounce back from injury without losing any rhythm.In the eyes of MOST tennis fans not named Isabela,those would be considered positive accomplishments...though I realize that those steps run counter to your ideology,so you've got to discredit them somehow:lol:......Oh,btw,and you can ask one of your profs if you don't believe me......When you get defensive if someone disagrees with you,it makes it appear that you lack deep conviction in your arguments;)

Which top 10 opponent did Ana beat after losing the first set?

And I've never said 2010 didn't have positives.. Just the fact that she seems to be recommiting to tennis is a positive. But again, it doesn't make 2010 as a whole any better.. it's still the time and space of almost all lows of her career.

Actually.. I think when someone doesn't agree with you, you just can't accept it and keep putting words into someone's mouth so you can have any sort of argument at all.. and instead of defending your thoughts, limit the discussion to a healthy debate of ideas, you start attacking everyone who disagrees with you.. and not only their opinions, but them personally as well. That's poor!

You are OVER the top with this post Bruce.. over the top. I'm not planning on replying to you again.. not on this and not on any other discussion. You got over the top, surpassed the limits.

spiritedenergy
Sep 29th, 2010, 09:06 PM
guys don't argue, we all agree on something... Shitana sucks:lol::p

bruce goose
Sep 29th, 2010, 10:18 PM
When did I say this? Quote me. I just said that I hope her showing some more love for the game results in a good 2011. I also never said she was getting worse and worse. Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? :o



Where did I say that? I said that from Wimbledon 2009 to Rome 2010 was the worst period of Ana's career.. I never said the player who quit in 2009 was a better player. What I'm saying is that if you look at the year as a whole, from start to finish, from january to now.. 2010 had lots of worse play and attitude than 2009. Yes, for the last month or so Ana showed she is trying more.. but it's not like she has been playing great or winning plenty of matches to make this year any better than 2009. Actually, in 2009 she won more matches and lost less... so you figure. Maybe this improvement in attitude will help 2011's cause, but it doesn't change 2010 as a whole.



Which top 10 opponent did Ana beat after losing the first set?

And I've never said 2010 didn't have positives.. Just the fact that she seems to be recommiting to tennis is a positive. But again, it doesn't make 2010 as a whole any better.. it's still the time and space of almost all lows of her career.

Actually.. I think when someone doesn't agree with you, you just can't accept it and keep putting words into someone's mouth so you can have any sort of argument at all.. and instead of defending your thoughts, limit the discussion to a healthy debate of ideas, you start attacking everyone who disagrees with you.. and not only their opinions, but them personally as well. That's poor!

You are OVER the top with this post Bruce.. over the top. I'm not planning on replying to you again.. not on this and not on any other discussion. You got over the top, surpassed the limits.The only 'over-the-top' thing I've done is dare to challenge the credibility of your complaints....I'll take it step by step

Paragraph 1.No you didn't say that quote;I was embellishing for effect b/c of your constant habit of making excuses to explain away Ana's good points while re-inforcing your solitary view that there's virtually no hope of progress.You pay lip service to the hypothetical possibility that Ana might get better.....AFTER you've spent two entire forum pages rambling about how her victories supposedly mean nothing and how horribly bleak everything looks.

Paragraph 2.Victories over Dementieva,Azarenka(twice),Kleybanova(twice),Zheng ,Petrova...three of whom had tormented her....You'd struggle to find ANY victories,even ONE,from 2009 that could compare with those.Again,it was visible that Ana's attitude grew worse and worse in 2009...to the point where many of us worried that she might quit...yet 2010 saw her re-discover her love for the sport and gain victories she NEVER would've achieved in 2009...yet you wanna cling to empty stats to rigidly maintain a dearly-held ideology that Ana is in a "black hole" if she doesn't become rock solid mentally by the end of the calendar year

Paragraph 3.Okay,I lied....Azarenka is currently ranked #11:lol:...that should THRILL you to win that minor point....As for my alleged refusal to admit error...I apologized to Aaron just recently when I went over the line in insulting him;it was a no-class move on my part.I agreed with Curtis when he complained that I was wasting too much thread space attacking the inbred putt-putt swish...and I admitted that I was WAY off in predicting that Rafa wouldn't return to his former glory.In fact,he even gained lots of respect from me instead of resentment..

...so I've basically proven that I can accept when I'm wrong....Unlike YOU,who are afraid to....Don't worry,though;I won't challenge the authority of your 'queendom' here any more:angel:

EDIT:One last thing...even though you're really tiresome sometimes with your gloom and doom,"Apocalypse for Ana" mantra.....You're still a genuinely beautiful person inside and out

jelenacg
Sep 29th, 2010, 11:18 PM
Shitana sucks :lol: I`m pretty sure this will make you Ana`s hater according to some people
As Izzy said we can agree to disagree and move on :)

SOA_MC
Sep 30th, 2010, 12:24 AM
Izzy no offence but I'm amazed at how you always have so much opinion about every one of Ana's losses :eek:

Me personally I am 'Oh Ana lost, wonder what I'll have for dinner tonight maybe fish'

gaviotabr
Sep 30th, 2010, 12:41 AM
Izzy no offence but I'm amazed at how you always have so much opinion about every one of Ana's losses :eek:

Me personally I am 'Oh Ana lost, wonder what I'll have for dinner tonight maybe fish'

:spit: It's ok.. I have too much time in my hands.. and I have a big flaw.. I'm hyperactive.. so I can't be doing nothing for 1 second.. my mind is going to create 100 theories.. :lol: I know it's not healthy.

I had all this discussion while studying for a test for university, and I did study for it, so you can imagine at what speed my mind works.. :lol: and I'm going to go do the test now.. :lol:

HowardH
Sep 30th, 2010, 02:39 PM
:spit: It's ok.. I have too much time in my hands.. and I have a big flaw.. I'm hyperactive.. so I can't be doing nothing for 1 second.. my mind is going to create 100 theories.. :lol: I know it's not healthy.

I had all this discussion while studying for a test for university, and I did study for it, so you can imagine at what speed my mind works.. :lol: and I'm going to go do the test now.. :lol:

Hope the test went well Izzy :D. The speed of your mind should be a useful thing for tests right?

gaviotabr
Sep 30th, 2010, 04:00 PM
Hope the test went well Izzy :D. The speed of your mind should be a useful thing for tests right?

Hey, thanks! It went great to be honest.. :lol: I love tests.. most people don't, but I love them. :lol: It's a fun time to me. The speed of my mind is quite useful.. though it was more useful when I was in med school and we had these anathomy tests in which we had a body part in front of us and 10 seconds to name it. :lol:

Davodus
Sep 30th, 2010, 04:41 PM
Hey, thanks! It went great to be honest.. :lol: I love tests.. most people don't, but I love them. :lol: It's a fun time to me. The speed of my mind is quite useful.. though it was more useful when I was in med school and we had these anathomy tests in which we had a body part in front of us and 10 seconds to name it. :lol:

I did those exact tests! I used to study sports science/exercise physiology, and anatomy was a big part of it...I haaated those tests :o we called them spotter exams, and they were the most stressful tests imaginable :lol: having only seconds to remember something, then moving on :o

gaviotabr
Sep 30th, 2010, 04:56 PM
I did those exact tests! I used to study sports science/exercise physiology, and anatomy was a big part of it...I haaated those tests :o we called them spotter exams, and they were the most stressful tests imaginable :lol: having only seconds to remember something, then moving on :o

:lol:

Hey David! I used to love those tests.. I would look at them like a challenge game, and try to remember as fast as posible. :lol: But yeah.. most of my friends were super stressed by them.

gaviotabr
Sep 30th, 2010, 04:56 PM
Beijing draw will come out tomorrow. Whatever happens, happens.. right?

gaviotabr
Sep 30th, 2010, 04:59 PM
From facebook:

Ana Ivanovic I arrived in Beijing on Wednesday night and so far I am really impressed with the organization here. I practised twice today and it's a thrilling environment to play tennis in. The courts are a nice bright blue and everything still seems so new. The second court here is called "Moon Court", so many people are joking about "going to the moon".

Will Ana finally be able to play a match on the Olympic courts? There was always something going on to prevent it in the last 2 years. Hopefully everything works perfectly for her this year.

Davodus
Sep 30th, 2010, 05:15 PM
:lol:

Hey David! I used to love those tests.. I would look at them like a challenge game, and try to remember as fast as posible. :lol: But yeah.. most of my friends were super stressed by them.

:lol: I can't imagine loving those tests, merely because looking at a real dead persons leg or half a torso was quite unsettling :p My nerves mainly came from my lack of study until about a week before the test, so I'd never really seen the things outside of a textbook before :lol:

Back on topic, these draws are coming out so early, I'm not ready for them :lol: But I dunno if it matters what draw Ana gets...it just matters if shitana or GOATana plays...because that will really decide how she does at this tournament...

AbyssII
Sep 30th, 2010, 06:18 PM
The draw will come out at 10:00 AM. It means 04:00 AM for Central Europe ?

jelenacg
Sep 30th, 2010, 06:20 PM
it just matters if shitana or GOATana plays...

:lol:

Btw i don`t use facebook very often ,just for tennis .So can anyone tell me how can i stop being friends with someone or in this case Sven Groeneveld :lol:
I`m extremely annoyed with `Sven Groeneveld and XX are now friends` that pops up every time i login there :rolleyes::rolleyes:

jelenacg
Sep 30th, 2010, 06:34 PM
^^
Never mind i managed to do it :lol: No more Sven :wavey:

Is anyone here friends with Ana`s coach Marija on facebook :lol:
She doesn`t write much , usually just comments on videos other people posted

Davodus
Sep 30th, 2010, 06:37 PM
No I'm not friends with anyone like that on FB...I get enough things clogging up my feed from weirdos like my cousin :lol: :angel:

Marilyn Monheaux
Oct 1st, 2010, 07:52 AM
Ana vs Bartoli first round. :spit:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2909/28495653.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/28495653.jpg/)

InsideOut.
Oct 1st, 2010, 08:09 AM
FUCK. :mad:

Davodus
Oct 1st, 2010, 08:10 AM
:spit: I have nothing to say to that, I just laughed.

Curtos07
Oct 1st, 2010, 08:21 AM
Well, shit happens. :shrug:

Lord Choc Ice
Oct 1st, 2010, 08:30 AM
OMG, well Barto just retired from Tokyo. :shrug:

InsideOut.
Oct 1st, 2010, 08:43 AM
Well, if Goatana shows up in 'bitch please' form, she'll take it in straights...:shrug:

Lord Choc Ice
Oct 1st, 2010, 08:44 AM
Hopefully Shitana will go away this time.

Ana needs to play like she did against Kleybanova. Easier said than done.

jelenacg
Oct 1st, 2010, 09:48 AM
:spit:

Is there a chance Bartoli will withdraw??
I can hope :shrug:

gaviotabr
Oct 1st, 2010, 12:24 PM
Oh great.. not. :o

This is like when Ana drew Radwanska twice in a row and lost to tie their h2h. Seriously.. UGH.. I can't take another pathetic loss to Bartoli. :banghead:

gaviotabr
Oct 1st, 2010, 01:29 PM
Ana is most probably going to play on Sunday. The OOP for tomorrow is out and she is not on it, but her posible second round opponents are.

http://ss14.sinaimg.cn/orignal/499a4f42t918d22b910ad&690

HowardH
Oct 1st, 2010, 03:01 PM
Ouch, tough draw, but then we don't know how well recovered Marion is from what forced her to retire against Vika. We also have no idea how well Ana will play. So... it's hard to tell exactly what will happen. It's an opportunity for revenge, but also an opportunity to be owned for a second time in a row.

Hey, thanks! It went great to be honest.. :lol: I love tests.. most people don't, but I love them. :lol: It's a fun time to me. The speed of my mind is quite useful.. though it was more useful when I was in med school and we had these anathomy tests in which we had a body part in front of us and 10 seconds to name it. :lol:

Glad to hear the test went well. I always like exam time actually. I prefer it to the normal part of the year. I see you and David have these tests in common. Izzy, what are you studying now? Since you've already been to med school, you are doing a second degree?

gaviotabr
Oct 1st, 2010, 03:45 PM
Ouch, tough draw, but then we don't know how well recovered Marion is from what forced her to retire against Vika. We also have no idea how well Ana will play. So... it's hard to tell exactly what will happen. It's an opportunity for revenge, but also an opportunity to be owned for a second time in a row.

Marion had a virus.. I think she will be just fine on sunday.

Glad to hear the test went well. I always like exam time actually. I prefer it to the normal part of the year. I see you and David have these tests in common. Izzy, what are you studying now? Since you've already been to med school, you are doing a second degree?

I'm doing a second degree yes.. I'm on law school.

HowardH
Oct 1st, 2010, 04:50 PM
I actually now think it might be good for Ana to play Marion again. I mean, she probably can't play worse than last time. So it has to be better, you would think. And many players like to get rematches against opponents they have lost to in order to try to even the score, but I'm not sure Ana has that mentality at the moment.

Medical and law degree as well :eek: :bowdown:. Did you do the two directly one after the other? That's a lot of years at university.

It's "in law school" by the way- my English literature degree instincts kicking in. I'm sure that was just a careless typo though. I and O are after all right next to each other on the keyboard.

jelenacg
Oct 1st, 2010, 05:04 PM
Marion had a virus.. I think she will be just fine on sunday.


I thought she retired bc of her shoulder :tape:
Also Ana has the tendency to draw same people all over again .It the past it was Patty Schnyder and Amelie Mauresmo

Davodus
Oct 1st, 2010, 05:12 PM
I thought she retired bc of her shoulder :tape:
Also Ana has the tendency to draw same people all over again .It the past it was Patty Schnyder and Amelie Mauresmo

I was at her match with Mauresmo at AO 05, the first time I ever saw Ana and that's when I became a fan :D so their rivalry was always fun for me :p I still remember Ana choking serving for the set in that match, I've never been so mad for someone I was seeing the first time.

HowardH
Oct 1st, 2010, 05:31 PM
I was at her match with Mauresmo at AO 05, the first time I ever saw Ana and that's when I became a fan :D so their rivalry was always fun for me :p I still remember Ana choking serving for the set in that match, I've never been so mad for someone I was seeing the first time.

Your first memory of Ana was of her choking :sobbing:. Mauresmo leads the head to head 6-2 so perhaps rivalry is not quite the word... but I understand, you looked forward to seeing that match up.

gaviotabr
Oct 1st, 2010, 05:32 PM
I actually now think it might be good for Ana to play Marion again. I mean, she probably can't play worse than last time. So it has to be better, you would think. And many players like to get rematches against opponents they have lost to in order to try to even the score, but I'm not sure Ana has that mentality at the moment.

I don't think Ana has ever had that mentality.. she would often lose 4 times in a row before getting a win.. like against Schnyder, Venus, Dementieva...

Medical and law degree as well :eek: :bowdown:. Did you do the two directly one after the other? That's a lot of years at university.

Yes.. one right after the other. I finished med school and got right back to do law school. I've been in university for the past 8 years, and there are still a few ahead of me.

It's "in law school" by the way- my English literature degree instincts kicking in. I'm sure that was just a careless typo though. I and O are after all right next to each other on the keyboard.

Aiss... sorry! Of course.. in law school.. I don't know why I messed this up, just above I wrote "in med school".. :lol: But I have to say I was never all that good with english prepositions. :spit:

gaviotabr
Oct 1st, 2010, 05:35 PM
I thought she retired bc of her shoulder :tape:
Also Ana has the tendency to draw same people all over again .It the past it was Patty Schnyder and Amelie Mauresmo

The shoulder injury was a GM rumor.. Bartoli cited viral illness to retire from her match against Vika.

Davodus
Oct 1st, 2010, 06:12 PM
Your first memory of Ana was of her choking :sobbing:. Mauresmo leads the head to head 6-2 so perhaps rivalry is not quite the word... but I understand, you looked forward to seeing that match up.

She played extremely well in the match for someone so young, I remember thinking how incredibly good her forehand was :lol: But with the exception of Brisbane 09, she did give Mauresmo a lot of trouble even when she lost to her, so it was fun to watch their matches. Big contrast in styles.

gaviotabr
Oct 1st, 2010, 10:03 PM
I wonder what was Ana's reaction when she saw she was drawn to play Bartoli.. again.. :o

jelenacg
Oct 1st, 2010, 11:29 PM
I wonder what was Ana's reaction when she saw she was drawn to play Bartoli.. again.. :o

Since she is a professional athlete and likes challenges i bet she is excited she got another chance to beat Bartoli and she will give her 110% to achieve that

(she already booked a flight to Luxembourg)
:lol:

gaviotabr
Oct 2nd, 2010, 02:10 PM
Ana is not on the OOP for tomorrow either. I honestly don't like this.. the second round opponent is already set, and she is going to play 2 days later? Is this because Bartoli requested a late start? :o

JamieOwen3
Oct 2nd, 2010, 02:55 PM
my first memory of ana was her match vs venus in zurich in 2004 :) close match and a great way to show she was going to be a contender in the future.

jelenacg
Oct 2nd, 2010, 04:22 PM
Ana is not on the OOP for tomorrow either. I honestly don't like this.. the second round opponent is already set, and she is going to play 2 days later? Is this because Bartoli requested a late start? :o

Hey Izzy!
Maybe :rolleyes: But Sharapova is also sick and she is playing tomorrow :confused: Maybe Bartoli requested a late start and Maria didn`t :confused:
It`s really strange Ana is playing so late

gaviotabr
Oct 2nd, 2010, 05:16 PM
Hey Izzy!
Maybe :rolleyes: But Sharapova is also sick and she is playing tomorrow :confused: Maybe Bartoli requested a late start and Maria didn`t :confused:
It`s really strange Ana is playing so late

I don't know what's going on.. it's strange that they are playing so late though.. I mean, the second round opponent will have at least 2 days of rest before the match, while either Ana or Marion might have to play again the very next day. I'm convinced this has to be due to a late start request.. and considering Marion was sick, it was probably her doing it. :o

gaviotabr
Oct 3rd, 2010, 01:48 PM
OOP is out. Ana plays 3rd match on center court.

Lotus Court
Starting At: 12:30 pm
Men's Singles
John ISNER (USA) vs Tsung-Hua YANG (TPE)
Not Before 3:00 PM
Women's Singles
Dinara SAFINA (RUS) vs Vera ZVONAREVA (RUS)
followed by
Women's Singles
Marion BARTOLI (FRA) vs Ana IVANOVIC (SRB)

Since the match before shouldn't start before 3pm local time, I guess Ana should play around 4:30/5pm.

gaviotabr
Oct 3rd, 2010, 01:52 PM
From facebook:

Ana Ivanovic Considering this is a nine-day tournament I was expecting to play my first match on Sunday but the extra day gives me more time to get used to the conditions. On Friday I did a fashion photo shoot. It was my first in a long time, so I enjoyed the opportunity to dress up. The driver got lost on the way there and we got an unscheduled tour of the city! At least I got to see Tiananmen Square and the entrance to the Forbidden City for the first time. I've already visited the Great Wall and Summer Palace during past visits, but I'd like to go back to see the Forbidden City if I get the chance.

So Ana was also expecting to have played today.. :o I hope she is ready for tomorrow.. I can't take another pathetic loss to Bartoli.. :o:o:o

Davodus
Oct 3rd, 2010, 02:03 PM
OOP is out. Ana plays 3rd match on center court.



Since the match before shouldn't start before 3pm local time, I guess Ana should play around 4:30/5pm.

At least that means she should be on Eurosport with some luck. Not that I'm sure if I wanna see it :o

Lord Choc Ice
Oct 3rd, 2010, 02:30 PM
From facebook:



So Ana was also expecting to have played today.. :o I hope she is ready for tomorrow.. I can't take another pathetic loss to Bartoli.. :o:o:o

When Ana was good she owned Bartoli. :mad: Come on Ana. :armed:

InsideOut.
Oct 3rd, 2010, 03:09 PM
Perfect timing for me :dance:

Cp6uja
Oct 3rd, 2010, 05:22 PM
Cruel draw for Ana in Beijing, and that don't have anything with her 1st round opponent Marion Bartoli, which is actually very beatable opponent for Ana, no matter whats happen just week ago. But real problem with this Beijing draw is what if Ana start to play hers best 2010 tennis (like in Cincy and US Open) but must to face so early two currently in best form WTA players Dementieva (R3) and Wozniacki (QF) on theirs favorite surfaces :o

But most pathetic scenario for Ana is to beat Bartoli and than in 2nd round to have once again one of these days and lose to GOATvortsova :p

BTW Eurosport will show this match... so this tournaments late start for Ana is good for us (sadly even Ana star-power probably will not be enough to put Govortsova on centre court, so we must to wait for R3 showdown against Dementieva, if Ana not choke previously).

vuhvuh
Oct 3rd, 2010, 06:58 PM
If ana have played today what she should play just because of bartoli as they wanted to give her more time for treatment asa she retired last week from match against vika.
school time so i hope as i will get home here i will see positive comments

hellas719
Oct 4th, 2010, 04:35 AM
Bartoli again :scared:

Lord Choc Ice
Oct 4th, 2010, 07:40 AM
Ajde Ana!
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a58/winstonlam/flag/3dflags_srb0001-0002a.gif

InsideOut.
Oct 4th, 2010, 10:01 AM
So annoying that Vera is making a meal out of her match with Dinara :rolleyes: I will only be able to watch half an hour of Ana's match :crying2:

Marilyn Monheaux
Oct 4th, 2010, 10:05 AM
:cheer: Vera won! Bring on Ana!:rocker2:

InsideOut.
Oct 4th, 2010, 10:14 AM
Come on Ana. :scared:

Davodus
Oct 4th, 2010, 11:28 AM
I thought Ana played well today...Bartoli was certainly not so good, but I can't be unhappy with Ana's level...I wonder how she played last week to lose 6-2 6-1 :o

Lord Choc Ice
Oct 4th, 2010, 11:35 AM
She won a point on Marion's first serve this time. :lol::yeah:

Ajde! Great win.

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 11:48 AM
Ok so.. Ana won.. good. 80 points!

The match itself was awful. There were no rallies.. Marion was playing like crap and even so Ana gave her chances.. good that she woke up in the end and was solid.. but the performance itself was so so.

I just hope Ana can improve for next match.. she can't allow herself to suck against Olga Govortsova. This is one of those must win matches.

jelenacg
Oct 4th, 2010, 01:02 PM
She won :cheer:
Is this the first match she won in Beijing on Olympic stadium ?
Please win next match

HowardH
Oct 4th, 2010, 03:49 PM
Hmm, everyone is saying that Marion didn't play well and Ana was only okay. You would think after beating Marion Ana should be able to beat Olga, but then with Ana you never know.

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 03:56 PM
Ana plays the third match on Court 1 tomorrow:

Court 1 12:00 start

Azarenka x Baczinsky
Schiavone x Hercog
Ivanovic x Govortsova

So it should be around 3/4 pm local time.

Bad thing is that probably there isn't any stream.. or hawk eye.. but well.. this is a must win match for Ana. If she wants to go back into being at least a decent top 20 player, she needs to beat the likes of Govortsova. Can't afford to go on court unfocused or playing like crap or both. She better be ready and focused for this.

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 03:58 PM
I've just read that Ana will play doubles with Wickmayer in Luxembourg.. interesting, huh? I mean.. it's supposed to be her last tournament of the year, and she decides to play doubles?

InsideOut.
Oct 4th, 2010, 04:25 PM
Ana won :woohoo:

Oh Izzy :hug: You're so hard to satisfy. :lol: But remember that after the shitty Rome QF win over Petrova, you said that Ana also has to learn how to win ugly. And that's what she did today...winning despite not being at her absolute best, and the fact that she was mentally aware of what was going on 1-3 down in the second says a lot, and it's definitely a positive move in the right direction.

jelenacg
Oct 4th, 2010, 04:26 PM
I've just read that Ana will play doubles with Wickmayer in Luxembourg.. interesting, huh? I mean.. it's supposed to be her last tournament of the year, and she decides to play doubles?

:confused:
Where did you read that?
Knowing how Ana plays doubles it`s just one more match :lol:

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 05:39 PM
:confused:
Where did you read that?
Knowing how Ana plays doubles it`s just one more match :lol:

I read it on Belgium newspaper Gazet Van Antwerpen:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4409/gazettq.jpg

I know it will probably be just one more match.. :spit: Just find it curious that she chose to play doubles in her last tournament of the year.. she definitely doesn't take doubles serious.. whenever she plays it's more to get used to conditions and all that.. :shrug: And it being the last tournament, it's not like it will prepare her for much anyway.. :shrug:

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 05:41 PM
Ana won :woohoo:

Oh Izzy :hug: You're so hard to satisfy. :lol: But remember that after the shitty Rome QF win over Petrova, you said that Ana also has to learn how to win ugly. And that's what she did today...winning despite not being at her absolute best, and the fact that she was mentally aware of what was going on 1-3 down in the second says a lot, and it's definitely a positive move in the right direction.

Oh I'm happy with the win, no doubt about that. And it's really important to know how to win ugly.. I'm just calling things the way I see it.

I just hope she doesn't decide to stink up against Govortsova now.. Olga is 6-17 on tour since reaching the final of Ponte Vedra Beach in April. That's a must win match for Ana.. but we all know Ana's inconsistencies.. :tape:

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 05:43 PM
She won :cheer:
Is this the first match she won in Beijing on Olympic stadium ?
Please win next match

This is actually the first match Ana has ever played on the Olympic stadium. She had to withdraw last year and from the Olympics. And in 2008 the China Open was a Tier II held in another venue.

spiritedenergy
Oct 4th, 2010, 06:16 PM
well done anci!:kiss:

Now please win at least one more match, next round is winnable...:o

Curtos07
Oct 4th, 2010, 06:48 PM
Going all the way back to Cincy, All of Ana's wins or loses have been in straight sets. And none of them have been particularly close. Either she wins comfortably or loses by a lot. Wildly inconsistent, but that's better than being consistently bad. Hopefully she can find some consistency here at the end of the season. Govortsova should be pretty winnable, but I am not getting burned again. I learned my lesson with Ana not to take any match for granted. :lol:

jelenacg
Oct 4th, 2010, 08:25 PM
I know it will probably be just one more match.. :spit: Just find it curious that she chose to play doubles in her last tournament of the year.. she definitely doesn't take doubles serious.. whenever she plays it's more to get used to conditions and all that.. :shrug: And it being the last tournament, it's not like it will prepare her for much anyway.. :shrug:

Yeah that`s strange :confused:
But that`s her last tournament ,i mean we would know by now if she decided to play one more :confused:

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 09:44 PM
Yeah that`s strange :confused:
But that`s her last tournament ,i mean we would know by now if she decided to play one more :confused:

It's just that there are no more tournaments after that.. the only other one she could play is Bali.. but she would need to qualify for that by winning a MM and getting ahead in the rankings or get some sort of WC. And that is very unsure.. so.. Luxembourg will most likely be the last tournament.

jelenacg
Oct 4th, 2010, 10:02 PM
It's just that there are no more tournaments after that.. the only other one she could play is Bali.. but she would need to qualify for that by winning a MM and getting ahead in the rankings or get some sort of WC. And that is very unsure.. so.. Luxembourg will most likely be the last tournament.

I don`t know :shrug:
We are probably thinking too much about this :lol: It`s just one more match...

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 10:09 PM
I don`t know :shrug:
We are probably thinking too much about this :lol: It`s just one more match...

:spit: I just found it curious.. :shrug:

jelenacg
Oct 4th, 2010, 10:18 PM
:spit: I just found it curious.. :shrug:

Yeah me too :spit:
Btw i saw on CNN you had election in Brazil,did you vote ? :p

Cp6uja
Oct 4th, 2010, 10:33 PM
The match itself was awful. There were no rallies.. Marion was playing like crap and even so Ana gave her chances.. good that she woke up in the end and was solid.. but the performance itself was so so.

I just hope Ana can improve for next match.. she can't allow herself to suck against Olga Govortsova. This is one of those must win matches.Ana first round match in Tokyo against Kleybanova, and this 1st round match against Bartoli is actually Ana Ivanovic winning formula for future. I don't talking about level of play, there is big area for improvement, but about GAME STYLE. Todays winners stats 23 vs 8 against Bartoli is something which she always must to have against such type of opponents, even if she lose matches (when have bad day with giant number of UE). Aggressiveness is key word for Ana, and like I says here several times before, she don't need her old confidence back for comeback, but her's old forehand; Ana don't need to fix that ugly ball toss or to have bigger 1st serve IN percentage, but she needs to put some power in that serve once again... Exactly that we see today from Ana. Of course that Marion looks like crap today when Ana so cruelly used Bartoli 2nd serve and her own 1st serve to make advantage every time early in point and finish them ASAP. So only at Bartoli 1st serve and Ana's 2nd we have to watch some interesting tennis, but even in that moments Ana try to use first possible half-chance to attack. You are sad because There were no rallies, but believe me, in match at fast hardcourts between Ivanovic and Bartoli with many rallies You will probably hate scoreboard :shrug: Longer point - better chances for Marion to win it.

"What a difference a week makes! Today I felt so much more comfortable on the court than I did against her in Tokyo," said Ana. Maybe we should to blame Ana's MM syndrome for that Tokyo R2 disaster, because It seems that Ana have that Mickey Mouse syndrome in Tokyo 2nd round when Bartoli trashed her 6-2 6-1 despite this is big Premier-5 event :tape: That match is scheduled early on minor court, than rescheduled on indoor's late afternoon b/c rain, but when rain surprised all and stopped, she must to prepare to play on that small and totally empty court (nobody expect tennis there that day). So she probably feels like playing MM event, and we all know how she playing in that position (even Dushevina will beat her... of course that TOP15 Bartoli easy trashed her). :tape: Just day before she played great tennis against Kleybanova in normal Premier-5 circumstances.

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 10:34 PM
Yeah me too :spit:
Btw i saw on CNN you had election in Brazil,did you vote ? :p

Yes.. The election was yesterday, and it's mandatory once you are 18. I voted.. I actually find it very important to vote. We will have a second round for president on October 31st.

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 10:42 PM
Ana first round match in Tokyo against Kleybanova, and this 1st round match against Bartoli is actually Ana Ivanovic winning formula for future. I don't talking about level of play, there is big area for improvement, but about GAME STYLE. Todays winners stats 23 vs 8 against Bartoli is something which she always must to have against such type of opponents, even if she lose matches (when have bad day with giant number of UE). Aggressiveness is key word for Ana, and like I says here several times before, she don't need her old confidence back for comeback, but her's old forehand; Ana don't need to fix that ugly ball toss or to have bigger 1st serve IN percentage, but she needs to put some power in that serve once again... Exactly that we see today from Ana. Of course that Marion looks like crap today when Ana so cruelly used Bartoli 2nd serve and her own 1st serve to make advantage every time early in point and finish them ASAP. So only at Bartoli 1st serve and Ana's 2nd we have to watch some interesting tennis, but even in that moments Ana try to use first possible half-chance to attack. You are sad because There were no rallies, but believe me, in match at fast hardcourts between Ivanovic and Bartoli with many rallies You will probably hate scoreboard :shrug: Longer point - better chances for Marion to win it.

First of all.. I'm not sad there weren't rallies.. I'm fine with Ana hitting winners out of every first ball. And I'm very happy she won.. But the match was a crappy UEs fest, especially from Bartoli. She looked awful not only because of Ana, but because she was awful in itself. She was missing plenty of easy short balls. Ana was also making plenty of UEs, but her FH was working well enough for her to be solid. And that was enough to win.

I do agree with you that first strike tennis and powerful shots, especially serve and forehand, has to be Ana's game.. that's how she wins matches. But if she has her head anywhere else.. and sometimes she can't focus on the ball if her life depended on it, she will be aggressive and her balls will fly all over the place.. she needs to learn how to refocus and adapt.. otherwise she might play well one day and stink it up the next, just like she has been doing lately.

Maybe we should to blame Ana's MM syndrome for that Tokyo R2 disaster, because It seems that Ana have that Mickey Mouse syndrome in Tokyo 2nd round when Bartoli trashed her 6-2 6-1 despite this is big Premier-5 event :tape: That match is scheduled early on minor court, than rescheduled on indoor's late afternoon b/c rain, but when rain surprised all and stopped, she must to prepare to play on that small and totally empty court (nobody expect tennis there that day). So she probably feels like playing MM event, and we all know how she playing in that position (even Dushevina will beat her... of course that TOP15 Bartoli easy trashed her). :tape:

Should we expect her to lose tomorrow then? She will play on a smaller court... :shrug: Seriously.. she can't allow herself to have such behaviour. She has to take each and every match seriously and focus, no matter where it's played. And don't say she has been always like this... this is one of the reasons she let herself fall on such deep slump... to get out of this, she needs to fix this problem. It's a big one for a pro tennis player.

jelenacg
Oct 4th, 2010, 11:13 PM
Yes.. The election was yesterday, and it's mandatory once you are 18. I voted.. I actually find it very important to vote. We will have a second round for president on October 31st.

Mandatory ? What happens if you don`t want to vote ?
My mother never votes :lol:

Ana better not dare to lose tomorrow :fiery: I don`t care if the court is small or if she needs a helicopter to get there :lol:

Cp6uja
Oct 4th, 2010, 11:48 PM
First of all.. I'm not sad there weren't rallies.. I'm fine with Ana hitting winners out of every first ball. And I'm very happy she won.. But the match was a crappy UEs fest, especially from Bartoli. She looked awful not only because of Ana, but because she was awful in itself. She was missing plenty of easy short balls. Ana was also making plenty of UEs, but her FH was working well enough for her to be solid. And that was enough to win.Most of Bartoli errors are forced because Ana use power often and properly today, and many of really unforced errors from Bartoli coming when she realize that losing and trying to change anything. Same thing we have last week with Kleybanova, and no need to remember how both of this two humiliate and trashed Ana couple times this season when Ana trying to play smart tennis, construct points, be patient, use plan-B, shows hers defensive improvements...etc...etc... All that is actually great things in tennis, but WTA tall power-hitter first of all MUST to be hyper-aggressive if want be very successful, otherwise mediocre TOP30 is maximum. Against solid TOP20 or TOP30 if Ana not overpower opponent (and she has all needed weapons and skills to do that ALWAYS) - she will be very probably outplayed, no matter how confident she is that day, how good moved or feels on court.

Today I see also big improvement in Safina case (lose only because in-life-form Zvonareva is opponent). She has much better defensive skills than Ana, but without some extra-aggression she is also hopeless and not competitive. After many months I see her again permanently attacking (top) opponent, and I think she is also close for comeback.

When I talking about Tokyo MM theory I'm not that serious :p, but that day is not "size" of court which destroyed Ana focus (or whatever), but more fact that match is twice rescheduled and at end it looks more to practice session than important Premier-5 2R match (without crowd small court always looks like practice-court). For tomorrows match Ana has whole day to prepare herself, knows time and place where will play, and of course, Govortsova is not Bartoli. I dont see Ana is in danger at all tomorrow, but I really root for MJMS against Govortsova because that give Ana chance for another revenge (that Rome lose is much more painful than both Bartoli because Ana waste good chance to play some final after so many time), and also that re-match will be played for sure at some televised court tomorrow.

gaviotabr
Oct 4th, 2010, 11:51 PM
Mandatory ? What happens if you don`t want to vote ?
My mother never votes :lol:

Ana better not dare to lose tomorrow :fiery: I don`t care if the court is small or if she needs a helicopter to get there :lol:

If you don't vote, you get in trouble with electoral justice.. it's nothing big, but you can't do a bunch of stuff, like opening a bank account or getting a loan.. You just have to pay a fine though I think.

Yeah.. Ana better win tomorrow.. :mad:

Lord Choc Ice
Oct 5th, 2010, 02:08 AM
Ana should win, key-word being should.

I think during Tokyo she peaked in the 1R too early against Kleybs. She was blazing through it like peak Serena in a GS final. :spit:

But Olga I daresay is an easier 2R opponent than Bartoli was in Tokyo and Ana didn't peak too early in R1 I don't think. :lol:

hellas719
Oct 5th, 2010, 03:07 AM
Ana :hearts:

DefyingGravity
Oct 5th, 2010, 03:53 AM
Come on! Coronation in China!!!