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Sammo
Jul 13th, 2010, 11:13 AM
Hi, well I've been wondering... how could Elena Dementieva get her best career results as an EXTREME pusher (that's the most extreme pushing I've ever seen once she was serving at 50 mph even I serve better) and in an era where there were a lot of good players? and in 2006-2009 when her game was clearly at her best usually serving at 180 km/h and absolutely fit (now she's injured or something isn't she??) don't reach a slam final?

goldenlox
Jul 13th, 2010, 11:25 AM
She won the Olympics in 2008. She had opportunities at majors, but didnt come thru. She was up a set and 2 breaks against Dinara at the FO and did not finish, or she would have played Ivanovic in the final. Right after the Olympics she was up a break both sets against Jankovic in the USO SF. Just had an injury in Paris, and that was another chance gone by.

No Name Face
Jul 13th, 2010, 11:35 AM
headcase.

Baselinebasher
Jul 13th, 2010, 11:35 AM
Dementieva's game is not the problem. The problem is between her ears.

Kworb
Jul 13th, 2010, 11:37 AM
She pushes more these days than in 2004. But she is not now and has never been an "extreme pusher". :weirdo: The quality of your serve has nothing to do with being a pusher.

Viktymise
Jul 13th, 2010, 11:40 AM
Lena D. was at her most aggressive off the ground in 2004, so your statement is undoubtedly bizarre.

Caralenko
Jul 13th, 2010, 12:07 PM
Elena Dementieva is a pusher now? :spit:

Wozniacki has a good serve. Does that make her a ballbasher? :weirdo:

thrust
Jul 13th, 2010, 12:39 PM
Stupid Hate Thread!

Serenus Christ
Jul 13th, 2010, 12:47 PM
she can still win a slam.
:o

TennisFan66
Jul 13th, 2010, 12:56 PM
pusher/ basher .. blah blah... The world of the simpleton tennis 'fan' ... :lol:

LCS
Jul 13th, 2010, 12:58 PM
This calls for locking :wavey:

mauresmofan
Jul 13th, 2010, 01:00 PM
Dementieva is not a pusher - she has serious firepower especially off the fh and what an athlete she is just incredible fast.

Sammo
Jul 13th, 2010, 01:04 PM
YES DEMENTIEVA IS NOT A PUSHER!! HELL YOU GUYS COULD READ MY POST AGAIN. For example in a fed cup match where she defeated Venus in 2001 or so... THAT WAS REAL PUSHING. And btw... hating thread?? I'm a fan! ¬¬

dsanders06
Jul 13th, 2010, 02:01 PM
She's not a pusher, but she does play very much like a counter-puncher these days, most notably in the landmark Wimbledon SF last year.

nicidle
Jul 13th, 2010, 02:19 PM
YES DEMENTIEVA IS NOT A PUSHER!! HELL YOU GUYS COULD READ MY POST AGAIN. For example in a fed cup match where she defeated Venus in 2001 or so... THAT WAS REAL PUSHING. And btw... hating thread?? I'm a fan! ¬¬

The fact is she played much more aggressively in 2004 than in 2001 and her game actually improved over the years..and it was against venus...

And how can you say she is a pusher the way she played against mauresmo and capriati in USO 04.. she's bashing the shit out of the ball and making winners everywhere,,

homogenius
Jul 13th, 2010, 02:24 PM
:weirdo:

spartanfan
Jul 13th, 2010, 03:05 PM
I don't really follow Dementieva much, but what is her injury? And when is she expected back on tour. Isn't Wimbledon the first GS she's missed in quite a few years?

goldenlox
Jul 13th, 2010, 03:10 PM
She had a calf injury during the FO, and wound up retiring during the SF.
Back in California in a few weeks

ptitnavet
Jul 13th, 2010, 03:11 PM
Elena Dementieva is a pusher now? :spit:

Wozniacki has a good serve. Does that make her a ballbasher? :weirdo:

you kill me :lol:

She is not a pusher she has a great defence but she can be aggressive too : not what I would call a pusher.

Stamp Paid
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:13 PM
Elena Dementieva is a pusher now? :spit:

Wozniacki has a good serve. Does that make her a ballbasher? :weirdo:Even Serena is a pusher now. :lol:

serenus_2k8
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:18 PM
Please close the stupid TWAT competition :sobbing: The trolling isnt even funny.

spartanfan
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:19 PM
She had a calf injury during the FO, and wound up retiring during the SF.
Back in California in a few weeks

Thanks Golden!

Rollo
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:24 PM
In 2004 when her serve could be a real issue she reached the finals of majors on a slower surface (roland Garros) and at the US ope, where she just outgutsed Davenport in the semis if I recall.

The serve could sometimes work in her favor too. As one former slam champ told me, "her serve is so bad it's good.":lol:

Lena could still win a slam. Frankly I think she needs to become a bit more tactically savy. She has one hell of a forehand. Her backhand is good too, but in many matches I've noticed she always goes crosscourt with it. Ok, it is best to hit crosscourt most of the time, but Dementieva needs to own a down the line backhand.

If she owns, and more importantly, uses it, she will own a slam trophy as well:)

Nicolás89
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:42 PM
Her inhability to change directions and her innate habit for stepping 2 meters behind the baseline makes her a retriever with power for excellency, so I see what the OP is talking about.

DefyingGravity
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:42 PM
^^ That was Kuznetsova vs. Davenport. Dementieva vs. Capriati was the other semi.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:46 PM
Elena Dementieva is not, nor has she EVER been, a PUSHER.

Good gosh. :rolleyes:

Yonexforever
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:48 PM
WHen did pushing become such a bad word??
Jeez louise.. pushers dont make silly errors, they wait for their sillier opponents to!
Everyone cant play high risk tennis.
Its called variety..

DefyingGravity
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:50 PM
WHen did pushing become such a bad word??
Jeez louise.. pushers dont make silly errors, they wait for their sillier opponents to!
Everyone cant play high risk tennis.
Its called variety..

I would be quicker to call Elena a grinder than a pusher.
A pusher implies no structure to their play and just get the ball back over the net however it comes over the net.

A grinder will have a strategy that involves some winner hitting, but ultimately exposing a lack of fitness (a la Agassi). I feel Dementieva plays this sort of game much more, and pusher seems to be a misnomer in this case.

LoveFifteen
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:51 PM
Good Lord, even Graf herself would get called a pusher on this board for daring to hit slice backhands. :tape:

Rollo
Jul 13th, 2010, 04:52 PM
That was Kuznetsova vs. Davenport. Dementieva vs. Capriati was the other semi.

Thanks Deying Graviry-Jen has lost some real close semis at the Open.

I hope Elena sticks with it. In my mind she already has a major title in the Olympics, so a slam is still possible. An injury like the one she has can really set a player back, but sometimes it is a blessing in disguise and can give a person rest and hunger.

For Dementieva's sake I hope she returns healthy, rested, and hungry to win:)

Yonexforever
Jul 13th, 2010, 05:18 PM
I would be quicker to call Elena a grinder than a pusher.
A pusher implies no structure to their play and just get the ball back over the net however it comes over the net.

A grinder will have a strategy that involves some winner hitting, but ultimately exposing a lack of fitness (a la Agassi). I feel Dementieva plays this sort of game much more, and pusher seems to be a misnomer in this case.

Well said.
im scratching my head for a pusher in the classic sense, but the modern game doesn't allow a pusher to get away with just getting the ball back.
Last time i checked that sounded like percentage tennis.
Caroline seems to be the favorite target, but i find she simply takes less risks off the ground, she siomply moves you around until she gets you out of position and you make an error or she hits a forcing shot.

DefyingGravity
Jul 13th, 2010, 05:21 PM
Well said.
im scratching my head for a pusher in the classic sense, but the modern game doesn't allow a pusher to get away with just getting the ball back.
Last time i checked that sounded like percentage tennis.
Caroline seems to be the favorite target, but i find she simply takes less risks off the ground, she siomply moves you around until she gets you out of position and you make an error or she hits a forcing shot.

Yeah...honestly, I see her wanting to play a grinder game but doesn't have the power like Dementieva.

miffedmax
Jul 13th, 2010, 07:33 PM
Elena's results have been BETTER over the last few years than they were before 2004. Yes, she made two slam finals in 2004, but of her 16 overall titles (including her Gold Medal) more than half have come after 2006 when she finally got her serve somewhat worked out.

In addition, her performance at majors has been far more consistent. While she did well at the USO and FO in '04, she bombed out early at the AO and Wimby. She was consistently inconsistent at majors before '05. She's made more quarters and semis and slams than she ever did before '06 in the last few years and her two early bombouts at majors were due to an illness at the FO last year and drawing Henin in Rnd 2 of the AO this year.

In short, your assumption that she was doing better with her bad serve is not backed up by her statistics. She has won more titles and gone consistently deeper at slams since retooling her serve.

swim4life227
Jul 13th, 2010, 07:35 PM
Elena, when at her best, is just the epitomy of a counter puncher, not a pusher.

I feel bad for her because if it weren't for her Gold medal, her career would basically all be close calls and misses. She really should have won a slam in the last 2-3 years.

2008 French- She should have easily won against Safina, that collapse was painful. She has a good record against Ana so she could have beaten her in the final, another "What if?"

2008 USO- She should have probably made the final over Jelena, even though I doubt she would have beaten Serena. Who knows, she just beat Serena at the Olympics but Serena probably had her best showing ever at a slam that tournie.

2009 Aussie- She was BY FAR the best in form player that year. All those matches probably worked against her because she was just out of gas by the time she faced Serena. That was only actually one of two or three times I actually expected Serena to lose.

2009 Wimbledon- Even though her fans claim this was her biggest chance, I disagree. The WS were in such fine form that year Elena did a damn good job to close the gap and nearly pull that match off. It would have been a big ask for her to beat another sister in the final. Venus was injured then, but I think she would have been motivated if Serena wasn't on the other side of the net.

2009 USO/2010 Aussie- She was again the best in form player coming into both slams. She should have beaten Justine but she had a pretty brutal draw even if she got past her. In the USO, had she gotten past Oudin and Sharapova the draw would have been wide open for her. Both of those slams she could have easily done damage if she didn't get royally screwed by the draw.

2010 French- She had such lousy results coming into this slam but that draw was the most open it was ever going to be at a Grand Slam. Too bad she was injured because if she wasn't she would have likely beaten Schiavone and then had a good shot against Stosur. Still odd that she went so deep in a tournament she wasn't in great form, but yet crashed out early at the last two slams where I felt she was in amazing form.

It's sad because she's probably one of the more talented players this generation and she really doesn't have the results she should have to back that up. It's amazing that someone like Schiavone can win a slam before her, she can really do it and it's all mental at this point.

Mightymirza
Jul 13th, 2010, 08:03 PM
headcase.

That :lol:

Sammo
Jul 13th, 2010, 08:25 PM
Elena Dementieva is not, nor has she EVER been, a PUSHER.

Good gosh. :rolleyes:

NO SHIT! Have you ever watched her in the early 2000's? well I think not because someone whose head is ok would call that a pusher.

Serenita
Jul 13th, 2010, 08:33 PM
She aint no pusher!

She's a counter puncher. On the other hand she can use some pushing for those Demented braincells she has.:lol:

She just loses her head sometimes. :shrug:

miffedmax
Jul 13th, 2010, 08:50 PM
She aint no pusher!

She's a counter puncher. On the other hand she can use some pushing for those Demented braincells she has.:lol:

She just loses her head sometimes. :shrug:

She's a grinding counterpuncher when she's on.

When she's off--she's a brainlessly predictable ball machine set to hit every #$%!# shot crosscourt.

serenafan08
Jul 13th, 2010, 09:32 PM
Elena? A pusher? :lol: I must have missed that memo...

Otlichno
Jul 13th, 2010, 10:53 PM
Am I the only one who thinks she's an aggressive baseliner? I know she has good defense but I think when she's playing well she is a great ball striker and gets quite allot of winners, the only time I really though she became much less aggressive was in her matches in the Paris Indoor Tournament, other than that I've always seen her as an aggressive baseliner.

Slutati
Jul 13th, 2010, 11:01 PM
She used to be an agressive baseliner, but now she's a counter puncher for sure. I miss her more agressive days. :tears:

Josh.
Jul 13th, 2010, 11:22 PM
^ Yep. Her ground game was so much more beautiful in 04-05.

Pebbles
Jul 14th, 2010, 11:11 AM
When she had a weak serve (04, 05, 06) her game was about her first strike because her serve would put her on the defense almost immediately after she hit it. Now her 1st serve is slightly stronger and more flat, she isn't forced to defend as much and therefore the need to win the rallies quickly isn't always there. She's still aggressive and can hit as hard as before but now she seems to wait for the right ball to attack before making the move a lot of the time. To the OP, even in the early 2000's, she wasn't a pusher, she was being dominated by some of the bigger hitters but she was still going for her shots when she could.

The Witch-king
Jul 14th, 2010, 11:23 AM
She won the Olympics in 2008. She had opportunities at majors, but didnt come thru. She was up a set and 2 breaks against Dinara at the FO and did not finish, or she would have played Ivanovic in the final. Right after the Olympics she was up a break both sets against Jankovic in the USO SF. Just had an injury in Paris, and that was another chance gone by.

I love how people bring these matches up as if she was actually playing well back then.

tenn_ace
Jul 14th, 2010, 11:27 AM
I love how people bring these matches up as if she was actually playing well back then.

In that particular tournament she WAS actually playing well and better than the player in your avatar. Now what was the point of your post?

Otlichno
Jul 14th, 2010, 11:35 AM
I love how people bring these matches up as if she was actually playing well back then.

She was playing well. :wavey:

The Witch-king
Jul 14th, 2010, 11:38 AM
In that particular tournament she WAS actually playing well and better than the player in your avatar. Now what was the point of your post?

Well I guess the player in my avatar would just have to hold those 5 grandslam trophys she won after that for comfort. :shrug:


I was referring to the fact that this thread is about how much Dementieva improved as a player and some poster used Olympics as an example so naturally i had to point out that she didn't exactly win that by playing well.

The Witch-king
Jul 14th, 2010, 11:42 AM
She was playing well. :wavey:

i'mm looking for the number of double-faults she hit in the final. can't fidn it unfortunately.

Otlichno
Jul 14th, 2010, 11:44 AM
But she played great tennis at the Olympics, maybe not her best, but she definitely played well.

Otlichno
Jul 14th, 2010, 11:44 AM
i'mm looking for the number of double-faults she hit in the final. can't fidn it unfortunately.

The Olympic final? She hit around 3 or 4 double faults. :lol:

tenn_ace
Jul 14th, 2010, 12:00 PM
Well I guess the player in my avatar would just have to hold those 5 grandslam trophys she won after that for comfort. :shrug:




the post was about 2008 Olympics, no? and your response was about that, no?

The Witch-king
Jul 14th, 2010, 12:16 PM
the post was about 2008 Olympics, no? and your response was about that, no?

You know what, just ignore everything I said in this thread.

kaktusino
Jul 14th, 2010, 12:22 PM
i'mm looking for the number of double-faults she hit in the final. can't fidn it unfortunately.

3 doubles

The Dawntreader
Jul 14th, 2010, 12:25 PM
Dementieva was an electric ball-striker in '04. Could easily match more established hitters for power and accuracy.

In a way she had to be. Her serve was her 'Judas', so had to be insanely aggressive to compensate.

tenn_ace
Jul 14th, 2010, 02:09 PM
You know what, just ignore everything I said in this thread.

good advice.

nicidle
Jul 14th, 2010, 03:43 PM
Dementieva was an electric ball-striker in '04. Could easily match more established hitters for power and accuracy.

In a way she had to be. Her serve was her 'Judas', so had to be insanely aggressive to compensate.

I like how she was insanely aggressive. :drool:

miffedmax
Jul 14th, 2010, 03:49 PM
I think it was the bangs.

The Dawntreader
Jul 14th, 2010, 03:52 PM
I like how she was insanly aggressive. :drool:

God me too :drool:

Her performance against Clijsters at Filderstadt in '05 is like a tennis orgasm:lol:

DPJ
Jul 14th, 2010, 04:13 PM
She won the Olympics in 2008. She had opportunities at majors, but didnt come thru. She was up a set and 2 breaks against Dinara at the FO and did not finish, or she would have played Ivanovic in the final. Right after the Olympics she was up a break both sets against Jankovic in the USO SF. Just had an injury in Paris, and that was another chance gone by.

I had COMPLETELY blanked about this match. Wow. So unlike her to let go of a match like this and fold in the third - this is definitely one of those forgotten missed chances for Elena.

serenafan08
Jul 14th, 2010, 07:08 PM
I like how she was insanly aggressive. :drool:

I thought she was last year @ Wimby against Serena too. I loved her back then, but now that her serve is more controlled I think she's playing even better. She has always been the best Russian to me; her technique and movement are top-notch. For sure the best player on tour right now without a Slam. Maybe I didn't watch her enough back then...she seems better than ever to me. :shrug:

miffedmax
Jul 14th, 2010, 08:41 PM
I had COMPLETELY blanked about this match. Wow. So unlike her to let go of a match like this and fold in the third - this is definitely one of those forgotten missed chances for Elena.

Are we talking about the same Dementieva? Because her epic folds are every bit as much a part of her insanely frustrating nature as her eats-T-34s-for-breakfast-tough wins. For every Pultova on her resume, there's a Kharkov. There's a reason her fans are all manic-depressive, batshit crazy, hypersensitive, and all slowly coming around to share her viewpoint that yes, dammit, a Gold Medal IS SO BETTER THAN A SLAM.