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MakarovaFan
Jul 9th, 2010, 01:57 AM
I just dont get this whole arguement/comparsion that has renuwed since the Wimbledon match. I mean point blank you CANNOT compare a 23 year old with an almost 30 year old who has been on tour for almost 6 years before Maria even appeared.
You cant really base things strcitly off "numbers/stats" because they can be misleading and often not tell the truth(ie Rafa Vs Roge....Rafa OWNES Rog 14-7,thats twice as many wins, yet Obviously Rog is not only the "better" player in comparison and will go down as the possible GOAT. Now considering Rafa may well be the greatest clay court player ever,when you take out the clay matchups which court for 9 of his 14 then their H2H becomes 6-5 for Roger.And you can do the same for countless other figures. The fact the Jelena was a Year End No.1 and can do down in history in an ELITE crowd,yet she still has to win a Major and played but one Final and clearly doesnt belong in that group. Sure the fact doesnt change,she will be forever a YE 1,just like Rafa ownes Rog and Serena ownes Maria, but sometimes stats can be "empty" and they arent the final say.
So If you look at the H2H and really break it down,they are alot more evenly matched than it looks.
6-2:
Miami 04.....Serena wins a somewhat close match against a pre MARIA maria 64,63 Serena 1-0
Wimby 04....Maria comes out and shellshockes Serena 61 64 1-1
then 2 matches that could have went either way....a match that Serena lead 4-0 in final set and lost and then a match that Maria had triple match point and lost
YEC 04... Maria 46 62 64 Maria 2-1
Oz 05....Serena 26 75 86 2-2
then Serena's turn to come out and shell shock Maria
OZ 07....Serena 62 61 Serena 3-2
then the ONE really horrid match, i was there and watched plus even looking at the stats Maria played utter shit and really skewed the H2H
Miami 07......Serena 61 61 Serena 4-2
then another tight match that going by most posters "absurd" reasoning maria should have won as she had sets points in set 1 and then won set 2
Charleston 08.....Serena 75 46 61 Serena 5-2
Wimby 10....Maria despite not playing well(twice as many errors) still put up a great fight against "slam" Serena, held 3 set points and the only difference of the match being 9 points and one single break of serve. Serena 76(8) 64 Serena 6-2

Bottom line,you cant evenly and fairly compare the two. Sure they have history and a h2h but it ends there(and even that isnt fully accurate). So for the sake of all the fighting going back and forth can you guys atleast leave it to be about individual matches and scores etc

BTW i love the people who have replied and STILL DONT GET IT,im only to page 3 and its lmfao u morons....its like you try and make me look dumb when u all are the idiots. Anways MY POINT was, how and why are these two players constantly put up against one another??? Maria is only 23 you cant even compare the two.....a better comparison would be what Maria has achieved by her 23rd year of life and what Serena has achieved by hers......do so and i guarantee that things are alot more even!!!

heyitsme
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:20 AM
Then why are you still talking about it? Move on honey.

RenaSlam.
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:22 AM
But Serena > Maria

mckyle.
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:22 AM
The post-Wimbledon, European clay season is terrible.

spartanfan
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:30 AM
*sigh*

Baselinebasher
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:33 AM
There should be no debate? Serena is better player in all regards. Sharapova is just another ball basher who succeeded because of her superior mental strength, not tennis talent.

tennisbum79
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:42 AM
You shoud not have created a thread, you are only prolonging the debate you are trying to avoid.

le bon vivant
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:44 AM
I'm still trying to figure out the point of this thread :scratch:

tennisbum79
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:48 AM
I'm still trying to figure out the point of this thread :scratch:
I don't think the author of the thread knows

S/he just thinking out loud. S/he had not completed the thinking process the thread was created.
Let's us him/her complete the process and reach the only logical conclusion of closing the thread

Tennisation
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:48 AM
To sum it all up, Maria has not beaten Serena in SIX years, nuff said.

slamchamp
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:50 AM
24 year old and 30 year old?? did they get that old?:lol: :o

tennisbum79
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:53 AM
24 year old and 30 year old?? did they get that old?:lol: :o
Well, maybe MakarovaFan want to fast-forward their lives so that these kind of discussion become obsolete soon.

danieln1
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:23 AM
And????

US Open series please...

homogenius
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:35 AM
:confused:

Hope this helps :

MjLIWFFSlT8

Gdsimmons
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:47 AM
I dont really get it myself. There should be no debate.

Serena Williams >> Maria Sharapova

Black Mamba.
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:57 AM
http://i27.tinypic.com/2rh08s1.png

goldenlox
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:13 AM
I could understand this during 2008 when it was 8-3 in majors and Maria was turning 21.

There's no point in this now. Its 13-3. Serena is with the all time greats, and Maria has no quality wins all 2010

Steven.
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:23 AM
@OP can u not post things like this it makes me sad....

OsloErik
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:30 AM
I'm still trying to figure out the point of this thread :scratch:

I was wondering the same thing. Is his point that you can't compare their total career statistics because Sharapova is six years younger? In that case, you can compare what they've done for comparable lengths of time on tour (after all, they both won slams at 17).

Sharapova is currently stalled at 3, Serena by 24 had won...7, I believe.

Or you can compare what they've done since 2004 (when Sharapova first won a slam).

Serena leads the h2h 5-2 since Wimbledon 2004 (which counts Sharapova's win there, BTW) and has won 7 slams to Sharapova's 3.

So...that's the two scenarios that merit discussion. I can think of one match where Serena got blown off the court. I can think of 2 where Sharapova got blown off the court. And if you want to discuss the actual way they match up, Sharapova has lost some of her pop and hasn't been able to compensate, whereas Serena has been able to shore up and strengthen areas of her game to make-up for diminished range. Sharapova at 19 was the best we've seen of her. I don't know whether Serena was best at 21 or 28, athletic movement and power or service variety and consistency with power.

shoryuken
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:38 AM
and has won 6 slams to Sharapova's 3

7 :)

Keadz
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:44 AM
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx250/Liteskin18/Abe-Simpson-walking-in-and-out-the-.gif

bandabou
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:50 AM
:lol: As Oslo said..however way you look at it, there's no comparison. Maria is good, but Serena is GOAT..when your only comparison is Court/Evert/Graf/Navratilova..then you know you good.

dreamgoddess099
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:54 AM
I'm still trying to figure out the point of this thread :scratch:

I suppose the op is mad because Serena is a better player than Maria and wants to plead a case that it's not true. The poor thing really just wants some attention, sad that this is the best he/she could come up with.

OsloErik
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:59 AM
7 :)

You are correct! My mistake. Edited in 2 minutes.

madmax
Jul 9th, 2010, 08:24 AM
It isn't fair to criticize Maria for not winning a slam in 2 years, when for the most part of these two years period she was either a)injured; b)recovering from injury. These boards are very quick to throw out baseless assumptions like no "TOP 40 wins" this year - like how many tourneys did Maria play this year compared to other players? Did we forget that she was out for 6 weeks due to bruised elbow? And I'm pretty sure that WS fans didn't appreciate that "Serena won 2 slams in 5 years" mocking thread, when it was made to counteract the same thread, intended for Maria's bashing purposes. Hypocrisy on these boards sickens me.

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 08:34 AM
Maria is 23 FFS. And yeah what's the point of the thread:rolleyes:

Acinolbaj
Jul 9th, 2010, 08:42 AM
I think you should debate here about Maria and Serena, because many of you use for debating (arguing) about them too disinterested threads.

bandabou
Jul 9th, 2010, 08:49 AM
It isn't fair to criticize Maria for not winning a slam in 2 years, when for the most part of these two years period she was either a)injured; b)recovering from injury. These boards are very quick to throw out baseless assumptions like no "TOP 40 wins" this year - like how many tourneys did Maria play this year compared to other players? Did we forget that she was out for 6 weeks due to bruised elbow? And I'm pretty sure that WS fans didn't appreciate that "Serena won 2 slams in 5 years" mocking thread, when it was made to counteract the same thread, intended for Maria's bashing purposes. Hypocrisy on these boards sickens me.

The thread-starter ain't even a Serena-fan, so how can it be hypocrisy from Serena-fans?

Maria vs Serena is a done and discussed thing. We respect Maria, but right now she and Serena are on two totally different levels.

Vaidisova Ruled
Jul 9th, 2010, 08:52 AM
Personally, I have never thought that Maria would win more than 10 slams.
But, it is really sad to say, that at 23, Maria's career has already been destroyed by those injuries: 2007, 2008, 2009. That's 3 years. And 3 years that were really important, because that could have been "peak Maria". During these 3 years, the only good things that have happened were these cortisone injections (just before AO 08) ,which were nothing less than a temporary remedy.
Of course, every player has injuries, but some are more lucky than others.
Jennifer Capriati had a shoulder injury and look where she is now.

I don't understand why people make "maria-serena" debate. Of course, Serena is by far the better player, and I'm not saying that if Maria hadn't had these injuries, she would be the better player.
I just don't see the point. One has won 13 slams. The other has won 3 slams, and had rarely the chance to show what she's capable of.
However, I have to say that some people are ridiculous, when they say "omg ! sharapova is so overrated !!! look she lost to Melanie Oudin, and people tried to say that she would be as good as serena williams :weirdo: what rivalry ?". This is just so dumb. All I have to say, is that when Maria was healthy, she was scary good. Of course, she wasnt scary good like Serena during 02-03; but she was really good. But people here have so much hate towards Maria, that for them 07-09 was "real Maria", and that she has the results that she deserves. No need to argue with these people.

For me, the best Serena-Maria match was during AO05, Maria was playing good, and Serena was playing good (even though she wasn't really fit). For me this match shows how great the Serena - Maria rivalry could have been. But sometimes, shit happens. Too bad.

BluSthil
Jul 9th, 2010, 12:54 PM
That's a bit much. Sharapova no tennis skills, please... You don't attend the Bollettieri Academy and have no skills or tennis acumen. Maria is a ball basher just like Serena, just not as good. The WTA & ATP has turned into a power and 1st serve percentage game. Pretty soon, most of the players will be Schwarzenegger clones with tennis skills !

serenus_2k8
Jul 9th, 2010, 01:14 PM
I dont get that sad about Sharapovas career because at least she has 3 slams and shed loads of money. Its worse for the likes of Golovin :shrug:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 9th, 2010, 01:19 PM
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx250/Liteskin18/Abe-Simpson-walking-in-and-out-the-.gif

THIS :rolls:

goldenlox
Jul 9th, 2010, 01:24 PM
I dont get that sad about Sharapovas career because at least she has 3 slams and shed loads of money. Its worse for the likes of Golovin :shrug:
And Maria's career is not over. She might win majors again.
But its senseless to compare her to Serena while Serena is being compared favorably to the best ever.

Diesel
Jul 9th, 2010, 01:54 PM
There is no debate. Serena is on another level. Try as they might, the comparison for Maria admirers lays in the Mauresmo/Clijsters range.

spartanfan
Jul 9th, 2010, 01:57 PM
There is no debate. Serena is on another level. Try as they might, the comparison for Maria admirers lays in the Mauresmo/Clijsters range.
Spot on. Even throw Pierce, Davenport, heck Capriati, and Kuznetsova into the mix.

Donny
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:00 PM
Personally, I have never thought that Maria would win more than 10 slams.
But, it is really sad to say, that at 23, Maria's career has already been destroyed by those injuries: 2007, 2008, 2009. That's 3 years. And 3 years that were really important, because that could have been "peak Maria". During these 3 years, the only good things that have happened were these cortisone injections (just before AO 08) ,which were nothing less than a temporary remedy.
Of course, every player has injuries, but some are more lucky than others.
Jennifer Capriati had a shoulder injury and look where she is now.

I don't understand why people make "maria-serena" debate. Of course, Serena is by far the better player, and I'm not saying that if Maria hadn't had these injuries, she would be the better player.
I just don't see the point. One has won 13 slams. The other has won 3 slams, and had rarely the chance to show what she's capable of.
However, I have to say that some people are ridiculous, when they say "omg ! sharapova is so overrated !!! look she lost to Melanie Oudin, and people tried to say that she would be as good as serena williams :weirdo: what rivalry ?". This is just so dumb. All I have to say, is that when Maria was healthy, she was scary good. Of course, she wasnt scary good like Serena during 02-03; but she was really good. But people here have so much hate towards Maria, that for them 07-09 was "real Maria", and that she has the results that she deserves. No need to argue with these people.

For me, the best Serena-Maria match was during AO05, Maria was playing good, and Serena was playing good (even though she wasn't really fit). For me this match shows how great the Serena - Maria rivalry could have been. But sometimes, shit happens. Too bad.

07-10 Maria has been around longer than 04-07 Maria was.

At what point do we say that this Maria is the "normal" Maria? After 5 seasons? After she retires?

serenafan08
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:02 PM
Spot on. Even throw Pierce, Davenport, heck Capriati, and Kuznetsova into the mix.

Yep. Anybody with less than 3 Slams is where she's at right now. I've always said it was pointless to compare Serena and Maria; even when Maria burst onto the scene at Wimbledon in 2004, Serena already had established some sort of a legacy coming off her Serena-Slam. They're both great players, and they enjoy competition. Can't we just leave it at that?

TennisGuy21
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:29 PM
Um, a win is a win, and Maria hasnt had a win on Serena in over 6 years now. You ask Maria how close she thinks they are.

DoublefaultPova
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:40 PM
OMG Serena >>>>> Maria, I mean she's the best tennis player ever!!!!111!!!111

But Maria is PRETTIER AND MAKING MORE MONEY!





Seriously.

Mistress of Evil
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:41 PM
Just cut it off already. :fiery: The OP is another brainless troll. Rena is in the top5 GOAT so why bother wasting time in creating such a pointless thread :scratch: Sharapova said it herself (in a post-match interview at this year's Wimbledon) that she must win a few more matches when her encounters with Serena can become a rivalry. Masha has achieved enough and her career is not over yet, comparing her with Serena just points out how low your IQ is.:wavey:

KBdoubleu
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:42 PM
It isn't fair to criticize Maria for not winning a slam in 2 years, when for the most part of these two years period she was either a)injured; b)recovering from injury. These boards are very quick to throw out baseless assumptions like no "TOP 40 wins" this year - like how many tourneys did Maria play this year compared to other players? Did we forget that she was out for 6 weeks due to bruised elbow? And I'm pretty sure that WS fans didn't appreciate that "Serena won 2 slams in 5 years" mocking thread, when it was made to counteract the same thread, intended for Maria's bashing purposes. Hypocrisy on these boards sickens me.

How is Sharapova not beating a top 40 player all year a "baseless assumption"? There is nothing baseless about that statement. Sharapova has played the same amount of tournaments this year as Henin, one less than Venus, and more than Clijsters and Serena.
Henin has 20 top 40 wins.
Venus has 16 top 40 wins.
Serena has 12 top 40 wins.
Clijsters has 10 top 40 wins.
Sharapova has 0 top 40 wins.
The statistic has lost a little meaning since Sharapova has been playing better recently and doesn't have a top 40 win - but it is still a shocking statistic and I can see why people harp on it. She has played 5 big tournaments this year (AO, FO, WIM, Indian Wells and Madrid) - and her win/loss record in those tournaments is just 6-5.

serenus_2k8
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:44 PM
OMG Serena >>>>> Maria, I mean she's the best tennis player ever!!!!111!!!111

But Maria is PRETTIER AND MAKING MORE MONEY!





Seriously.

So petty trying to drag that into an argument about tennis. Considering money is neither an issue for either and Serena is openly mentioned as a sex symbol more than Maria, I think you might need to find different straws to clutch at. Going down in history as the greatest player of your generation and perhaps the best of all time is worth a lot more to me than a pretty face.

tennisbum79
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:52 PM
So petty trying to drag that into an argument about tennis. Considering money is neither an issue for either and Serena is openly mentioned as a sex symbol more than Maria, I think you might need to find different straws to clutch at. Going down in history as the greatest player of your generation and perhaps the best of all time is worth a lot more to me than a pretty face.
What do you expect?
This is not going well, so throw the kitchen sink,... literally

I wouldn't be surprized if they tout Maria as a beter humanitarian then Serena

serenus_2k8
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:57 PM
What do you expect?
This is not going well, so throw the kitchen sink,... literally

I wouldn't be surprized if they tout Maria as a beter humanitarian then Serena

I did expect this, but still find it inexcusable. I feel sorry for the Maria fans. They seem to think Maria is anywhere near Serenas league when in fact, even comparisons to Venus/Henin/Hingis look stupid. I wouldnt be surprised to see Kim retire with more slams than Maria.

DoublefaultPova
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:59 PM
So petty trying to drag that into an argument about tennis. Considering money is neither an issue for either and Serena is openly mentioned as a sex symbol more than Maria, I think you might need to find different straws to clutch at. Going down in history as the greatest player of your generation and perhaps the best of all time is worth a lot more to me than a pretty face.

I was trying to write the most stupid response in the most stupid thread. :wavey:

tennisbum79
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:04 PM
I did expect this, but still find it inexcusable. I feel sorry for the Maria fans. They seem to think Maria is anywhere near Serenas league when in fact, even comparisons to Venus/Henin/Hingis look stupid. I wouldnt be surprised to see Kim retire with more slams than Maria.
I think Maria can win more slams, and Kim retires sooner than expected, Marian could surpass her.

I think some Maria fans, not all , have overreached in interpreting with Maria's good showing against Serena as having equalled Serena's level.

I doubt Maria herself thinks that way.
She knows and acknowldges she has more work to do in her come comeback campaign, and playing well against Serena was a good measure of where she is.

tennisbum79
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:05 PM
I was trying to write the most stupid response in the most stupid thread. :wavey:
OK. It was sarcasm

Serenita
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:09 PM
There is no debate. Serena is on another level. Try as they might, the comparison for Maria admirers lays in the Mauresmo/Clijsters range.

Spot on. Even throw Pierce, Davenport, heck Capriati, and Kuznetsova into the mix.


This

serenus_2k8
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:12 PM
I was trying to write the most stupid response in the most stupid thread. :wavey:

Ok well if it was just a joke, I apologise.

Craig.
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:22 PM
I did expect this, but still find it inexcusable. I feel sorry for the Maria fans. They seem to think Maria is anywhere near Serenas league when in fact, even comparisons to Venus/Henin/Hingis look stupid. I wouldnt be surprised to see Kim retire with more slams than Maria.

We don't need you to feel sorry for us and I don't think any reasonable Maria fans think Maria's even close to being in Serena's league. Some Serena fans however automatically think these two should rarely come up in a discussion together, because of how big the difference in what they have achieved is. That's ridiculous. It's not all about the legacy and the greatness.

That said, close this thread please. It's just begging for some trolling to go around.

Matt01
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:31 PM
Henin has 20 top 40 wins.
Venus has 16 top 40 wins.
Serena has 12 top 40 wins.
Clijsters has 10 top 40 wins.
Sharapova has 0 top 40 wins.


These stats, to say the least, are......interesting.

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:44 PM
Maria is so young she has time to cover that gap and she knows it.

spartanfan
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:48 PM
These stats, to say the least, are......interesting.
Not really. 13 GS> 7 GS> 3 GS > 2 GS. Now that stat is significant.

L'Enfant Sauvage
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:50 PM
But will she? Her only hope of winning another slam is if Serena, Kim, Justine, and maybe Venus retire simultaneously. Even then, there's the possibility of being upset by new promising players like Kvitova and others... I'd be surprised if Sharapova ends her career with four slams. Whereas I'd be surprised if Serena doesn't finish with AT LEAST 16.

Matt01
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:55 PM
Not really. 13 GS> 7 GS> 3 GS > 2 GS. Now that stat is significant.


Yes, because it's only the Slams that count :zzz:

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:02 PM
But will she? Her only hope of winning another slam is if Serena, Kim, Justine, and maybe Venus retire simultaneously. Even then, there's the possibility of being upset by new promising players like Kvitova and others... I'd be surprised if Sharapova ends her career with four slams. Whereas I'd be surprised if Serena doesn't finish with AT LEAST 16.

BS Maria won Majors with them in the draw or not she can do it again. She certainly doesn't need that and atm only Serena is really on another planet at Majors so again this is BS.

serenus_2k8
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Yes, because it's only the Slams that count

This :worship:

IceSkaTennisFan
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:04 PM
Miami 07......Serena 61 61 Serena 4-2
then another tight match that going by most posters "absurd" reasoning maria should have won as she had sets points in set 1 and then won set 2
I was trying to follow you until you said this :confused: Miami07 wasn't even close. That was a beat down. Sharapova's serve has been MIA the last 4 (that's half of their H2H) matches. Though her serve improved most in their last match, Sharapova's been serving double faults in left and right on crucial points. She's in no position to be compared to Serena who just won her 13th major.

Matt01
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:05 PM
This :worship:


:weirdo:

spartanfan
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:14 PM
Yes, because it's only the Slams that count :zzz:
Slams count more than "wins" over top 40 players. You can rack up a bunch of meaningless wins at MM tournaments. Who cares about that stat. You can come up with a stat on just about anything. While slams aren't everything, they sure top the list.

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:16 PM
I did expect this, but still find it inexcusable. I feel sorry for the Maria fans. They seem to think Maria is anywhere near Serenas league when in fact, even comparisons to Venus/Henin/Hingis look stupid. I wouldnt be surprised to see Kim retire with more slams than Maria.

Howa can a Venus fan say this, just feel sorry for your fave I know she needs help atm.

serenus_2k8
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:17 PM
Howa can a Venus fan say this, just feel sorry for your fave I know she needs help atm.

How can a Venus fan say that Vee is in a different league to Sharapova? Quite easily actually..I could also use stats to back that up, if it wasnt already obvious.

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:20 PM
How can a Venus fan say that Vee is in a different league to Sharapova? Quite easily actually..I could also use stats to back that up, if it wasnt already obvious.

I wasn't talking about that it's pretty obvious she is, but right now it's irrelevant she is in a bad shape and just lost against Pironkova on her best surface that's what I said just feel sorry for her.

serenus_2k8
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:24 PM
I wasn't talking about that it's pretty obvious she is, but right now it's irrelevant she is in a bad shape and just lost against Pironkova on her best surface that's what I said just feel sorry for her.

I wouldnt worry about Vee. Shes top 4, with little to defend at the US and she has had a good year by normal players standards :wavey: People need to stop trying to convince themselves shes past itt.

L'Enfant Sauvage
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:26 PM
BS Maria won Majors with them in the draw or not she can do it again. She certainly doesn't need that and atm only Serena is really on another planet at Majors so again this is BS.

She can win a major with them in the draw, just so long as someone else does the dirty work for her ahead of time/she faces an injured one. Other than that... I just don't see Sharapova beating a healthy Serena/Venus/Juju/Kim at this point, especially not in a final.

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:32 PM
I wouldnt worry about Vee. Shes top 4, with little to defend at the US and she has had a good year by normal players standards :wavey: People need to stop trying to convince themselves shes past itt.

As if I need to, I'm just stating facts. Venus losing on grass against a nobody is quite schoking she has her best results at Wimbledon usually. And how can you say you're not worry the girl used to reach the final of this event without even sweat and now she is losing against Pirowoman.

VishaalMaria
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:34 PM
As if I need to, I'm just stating facts. Venus losing on grass against a nobody is quite schoking she has her best results at Wimbledon usually. And how can you say you're not worry the girl used to reach the final of this event without even sweat and now she is losing against Pirowoman.

Because it's only one loss.

I don't mean to be harsh, but when Venus stops beating top 40 players altogther, then we'll start worrying. But since Maria's issue(s) are more severe than Venus', I think you should concentrate on her. Thanks.

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:37 PM
She can win a major with them in the draw, just so long as someone else does the dirty work for her ahead of time/she faces an injured one. Other than that... I just don't see Sharapova beating a healthy Serena/Venus/Juju/Kim at this point, especially not in a final.

:lol: BS again she was so not that far against Henin on clay, on any other surface she would have won but I guess you just don't see this happening so why bother arguing with you, and again she was not that far from Serena too I know Serena would have rolled over the 3 others players at Wimbledon.

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:41 PM
Because it's only one loss.

I don't mean to be harsh, but when Venus stops beating top 40 players, then we'll start worrying. But since Maria's issue(s) are more severe than Venus', I think you should concentrate on her. Thanks.

You're not don't worry:lol:. At least in the last 2 majors Maria showed a pretty good tennis against the best players on their best surfaces, if you're not even able to win 6 games against Pironkova on your best surface and at Wimbledon then sth is obviously wrong.

VishaalMaria
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:49 PM
You're not don't worry:lol:. At least in the last 2 majors Maria showed a pretty good tennis against the best players on their best surfaces, if you're not even able to win 6 games against Pironkova on your best surface and at Wimbledon then sth is obviously wrong.

You're being subjective.

Like I said, it's only one loss; a bad day at the office. It's not as if Venus has been losing round 1 or 2 in the last five/six tournaments she's played in or lost to complete strangers or unknowns.

In the last two slams, Maria played some good tennis but the facts are she still lost. Whereas Venus, advanced further than Maria in the last two slams. That's fact.

As I (and many others) have said, there's nothing to worry about with Venus. So Maria is not in the same league as Venus, in terms of achievment or slump.

L'Enfant Sauvage
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:52 PM
:lol: BS again she was so not that far against Henin on clay, on any other surface she would have won but I guess you just don't see this happening so why bother arguing with you, and again she was not that far from Serena too I know Serena would have rolled over the 3 others players at Wimbledon.

Masha's form is improving, yes. And taking Justine to three sets on clay is commendable, but it's just a match. Same with the Venus/Pironkova thing. Everyone is due for a surprising loss(or not, in Henin's case) on their preferred court. Tennis is a sport where, realistically, anyone can beat anyone on any given day(provided you have the right mentality.)

Her best chance at winning a slam is now, while there's no pressure on her(Lets face it, how many of you have seen people writing her off as a scrub?) So if she can use that to her advantage like she did against Justine or Serena, she might have a chance at winning. Even better would be if she could cruise her way to a final over lackluster non-top 20 players and then shock Serena in a final.

And off topic, but until she can take a healthy Serena into three sets at the very least, there is no Maria/Serena debate. Serena wins, end of story.

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 04:56 PM
You're being subjective.

Like I said, it's only one loss; a bad day at the office. It's not as if Venus has been losing round 1 or 2 in the last five/six tournaments she's played in or lost to complete strangers or unknowns.

In the last two slams, Maria played some good tennis but the facts are she still lost. Whereas Venus, advanced further than Maria in the last two slams. That's fact.

As I (and many others) have said, there's nothing to worry about with Venus. So Maria is not in the same league as Venus, in terms of achievment or slump.

Well there is still some satisfaction when you lose against the future winner, who are you kidding what are Pironkova's results at Wimbledon?

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:01 PM
Masha's form is improving, yes. And taking Justine to three sets on clay is commendable, but it's just a match. Same with the Venus/Pironkova thing. Everyone is due for a surprising loss(or not, in Henin's case) on their preferred court. Tennis is a sport where, realistically, anyone can beat anyone on any given day(provided you have the right mentality.)

Her best chance at winning a slam is now, while there's no pressure on her(Lets face it, how many of you have seen people writing her off as a scrub?) So if she can use that to her advantage like she did against Justine or Serena, she might have a chance at winning. Even better would be if she could cruise her way to a final over lackluster non-top 20 players and then shock Serena in a final.

And off topic, but until she can take a healthy Serena into three sets at the very least, there is no Maria/Serena debate. Serena wins, end of story.

First there was this match against Henin and then it was confirmed with her match against Serena, and I prefectly know that on a given day Maria can beat Serena she already did in a Major final she can do it again, chances are pretty slim atm but who knows.
And I know there is no debate between them just like there isn't between Serena and anyone else on tour right now.

VishaalMaria
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:05 PM
Well there is still some satisfaction when you lose against the future winner, who are you kidding what are Pironkova's results at Wimbledon?

As a fierce competitor I think Maria could care less if she did ( or did not) lose to the eventual champion, seeing as her result still sticks. It's only the fans who take satisfaction in Maria losing to the eventual champion, because at this point they are going to take all the positives they can get.

I don't care what Pironkova's previous results were at Wimbledon, what relevance has that got?

You keep bringing that up, making a case as to why there's something seriously wrong with Venus and that she's in the same league as Maria in terms of a slump, but as I've said MANY times it's only ONE loss; a loss that has no bearing,as Venus has been bounced out of Wimbledon early (or earlier) in other years and has STILL come back to win the event showing her slam days are far from over. What are Jelena Jankovics and Karolina Sprems past results at Wimbledon? Nothing to write home about, yet Venus came back the following year to win Wimbledon.

You can't say the same about Maria. How many WTH losses has Maria had throughout the past year?

You're seriously deluded if you think we really need to worry about Venus.

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:14 PM
As a fierce competitor I think Maria could care less if she did ( or did not) lose to the eventual champion, seeing as her result still sticks. It's only the fans who take satisfaction in Maria losing to the eventual champion, because at this point they are going to take all the positives they can get.

That's not what she said in her ITW she gave Serena a run for her money and the only one to push Serena in a tiebreak and force Serena to save set points but of course at the end there is still the loss but she said she did a pretty good job out there and it's true.
Now just show me what Venus said after her loss? Thanks.

I don't care what Pironkova's previous results were at Wimbledon, what relevance has that got? You keep bringing that up, making a case as to why there's something seriously wrong with Venus and that she's in the same league as Maria in terms of a slump, but as I've said MANY times it's only ONE loss; a loss that has no bearing,as Venus has been bounced out of Wimbledon early/ier in other years and has STILL come back to win the event showing her slam days are far from over.

I didn't even talk about being in a slump I just said it was strange and schoking to see Vernus fail this early and against a nobody but if you think there is no pb losing to Pironkova fine I believe you.
But just knows she has her best results at Wimbledon since 2007, she never did better at others Majors.

VishaalMaria
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:27 PM
That's not what she said in her ITW she gave Serena a run for her money and the only won to push Serena in a tiebreak and force Serena to save set points but of course at the end there is still the loss but she said she did a pretty good job out there and it's true.
Now just show me what Venus said after her loss? Thanks.



I didn't even talk about being in a slump I just said it was strange and schoking to see Vernus fail this early and against a nobody but if you think there is no pb losing to Pironkova fine I believe you.
And actually she never did better at any other event except Wimbledon since 2007 let's just see what she will do at US.


Who cares what Maria and Venus said in their interviews respectively? :lol: They can say anything they want but all that WILL matter is; Venus QF, Maria 4R.

The initial point was that you think we should worry about Venus- that was your defensive argument in response to someone saying Maria needed some help, but you can't compare Maria and Venus because Marias issues are severe.

It was somewhat shocking to see Venus lose in the quarters, but as I've pointed out, Venus lost to Sprem in 2004 and came back the following year to win in 2005. She lost to Jelena in 2006 but came back the following year to win in 2007. These "losses" aren't so shocking and they are NOT indicative of Venus needing some help because "her slam days are over". Therefore we don't need to worry unless losing to unknowns, or losing in the early stages becomes a habit (like it has with Maria). And I don't give a monkeys behind if you believe me or not, but at least I'm giving you hard facts here. All you're going on is hope.

And a slam is a slam, people can dog Venus for only being able to win Wimbledon but at least she's able to win one slam. Better than 99.9% of the tour who can't even win one so most people don't have a leg to stand on, criticising Venus in that way, including you and your favourite.

EDIT: And seeing as this is a Maria and Serena debate, I'm going to stop here because, as I've said, I've presented you with the facts. You can stay in your delusional ways all you want. Take care.

slamchamp
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:31 PM
I hate these threads..why is there so much need to compare them?? They're really different you idiot Thread-starter:o

serenus_2k8
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:34 PM
I hate these threads..why is there so much need to compare them?? They're really different you idiot Thread-starter:o

As would any Maria fan :hug:

slamchamp
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:36 PM
As would any Maria fan :hug:Any fan..why compare with someone who has like 10+ slams?:o

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:36 PM
I will never count Venus OUT at Wimbledon, be sure of it I was more generalizing and I just don't see her winning US now or you know be really dominant at the end of the year.

serenus_2k8
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:37 PM
Any fan..why compare with someone who has like 10+ slams?:o

You're right, its ridiculous. Im surprised the mods aint shut this thread down. With all due respect to the rest of the field, Serena is in a different chapter of the history books. Nothing to be ashamed of it just is what it is.

Gdsimmons
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:40 PM
This is crazy. There is no comparison. Serena is currently on the prowl to get to the Chrissie and Martina range. Maria..... she'll be lucky to get a few more. There is just no comparison. Serena is just a better player than Maria is ,was and will ever be.

Serenita
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:52 PM
Any fan..why compare with someone who has like 10+ slams?:o


Is best to compare her to Clijsters :shrug:

slamchamp
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:54 PM
Is best to compare her to Clijsters :shrug:
yeah:)

narutos
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:57 PM
Is best to compare her to Clijsters :shrug:

or Wozniacki.

slamchamp
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:58 PM
or Wozniacki.
lol..the woz get bitchslapped by maria..always:worship:

Serenita
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:58 PM
lol..the woz get bitchslapped by maria..always:worship:
:lol:

tennisbum79
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:59 PM
I hate these threads..why is there so much need to compare them?? They're really different you idiot Thread-starter:o
You are right in blaming the thread starter.

The OP post argues that there should not be such comparison, because of age difference, mainly.
S/he should have stoped there, but did not.

Serenita
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:03 PM
You are right in blaming the thread starter.

The OP post argues that there should be such comparison, because of age difference, mainly.
S/he should have stoped there, but did not.

Yeah classic Povatard. :lol: S/he got all confused, its still suffering from the Wimby loss.:drool:

Sp!ffy
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:06 PM
I'm embarrassed by this thread :o

tennisbum79
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:13 PM
I'm embarrassed by this thread :o
Well, what can u do?
We all have an embarrasing uncle in each fan base.:)

Vikapower
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:19 PM
This is crazy. There is no comparison. Serena is currently on the prowl to get to the Chrissie and Martina range. Maria..... she'll be lucky to get a few more. There is just no comparison. Serena is just a better player than Maria is ,was and will ever be.
Yeah well are you that guy that reads people future in the coffee cup ? :rolleyes: If you are then you promised me that Serena wasn't going to win a single slam on the 03/10/20xx, in 2006 you also had predicted 0 slams for Ana and in 2009 0 slams for Franscesca and you failed all yet you're still coming back to haunt me with Maria. :fiery:

The first time I lost my Ferrari 208 GTB (1980) my father had offered me for christmas and that time I'm not going to put my Mondial Quattrovalvole (1982) in play for you, genius. :rolleyes:

Gdsimmons
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:25 PM
Yeah well are you that guy that reads people future in the coffee cup ? :rolleyes: If you are then you promised me that Serena wasn't going to win a single slam on the 03/10/20xx, in 2006 you also had predicted 0 slams for Ana and in 2009 0 slams for Franscesca and you failed all yet you're still coming back to haunt me with Maria. :fiery:

The first time I lost my Ferrari 208 GTB (1980) my father had offered me for christmas and that time I'm not going to put my Mondial Quattrovalvole (1982) in play for you, genius. :rolleyes:

You actually thought before you typed all that?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

debby
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:29 PM
Is best to compare her to Clijsters :shrug:

To Davenport, maybe.

Vikapower
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:38 PM
You actually thought before you typed all that?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Actually no but you're a Maria fan so I don't see why this hurts you that much ? :shrug: It's very disturbing to have people compare our rising champ with Serena a 10+ GS winner and 28 years old declining [bip]. Why not a Maria/Justine we would all know the positive outcome of the result for the taller of the 2. :rolleyes:

Gdsimmons
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:48 PM
Actually no but you're a Maria fan so I don't see why this hurts you that much ? :shrug: It's very disturbing to have people compare our rising champ with Serena a 10+ GS winner and 28 years old declining [bip]. Why not a Maria/Justine we would all know the positive outcome of the result for the taller of the 2. :rolleyes:

:lol::lol: @ your delusion. Rising champ?? Please.

Serenita
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:55 PM
Actually no but you're a Maria fan so I don't see why this hurts you that much ? :shrug: It's very disturbing to have people compare our rising champ with Serena a 10+ GS winner and 28 years old declining [bip]. Why not a Maria/Justine we would all know the positive outcome of the result for the taller of the 2. :rolleyes:


http://i42.tinypic.com/25qubr9.jpg

debby
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:01 PM
Rising champ :spit: x100

L'Enfant Sauvage
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:01 PM
Yeah well are you that guy that reads people future in the coffee cup ? :rolleyes: If you are then you promised me that Serena wasn't going to win a single slam on the 03/10/20xx, in 2006 you also had predicted 0 slams for Ana and in 2009 0 slams for Franscesca and you failed all [yet you're still coming back to haunt me with Maria. :fiery:

The first time I lost my Ferrari 208 GTB (1980) my father had offered me for christmas and that time I'm not going to put my Mondial Quattrovalvole (1982) in play for you, genius. :rolleyes:

... What? :help:

Also, Schiavone's FO win was in 2010, not '09.

Vikapower
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:29 PM
Rising champ :spit: x100
http://i42.tinypic.com/25qubr9.jpg
The anti-Maria crew has enjoyed my very provocative yet so true sayings. :kiss: Yes indeed accept it or not Maria before she got hurt was still on a rising curve tennistically and in what she was accomplishing before she got hurt now that the injury storm has gone she's slowly getting back in the posture she was in the past.

... What? :help: Also, Schiavone's FO win was in 2010, not '09.
Didn't you know that some people had predicted Serena's end in 2004-2005. Gosh this thread had been bumped just the other day. I'll let you look for it as for now people predicts Maria's future as of her recent performances as if the truth of today is the truth of tomorrow especially in sports. Maria could win the 2 next slams with Serena in the finals having served in both 25 aces think of that scenario to psychologically prepare yourself. :devil:

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:37 PM
http://i42.tinypic.com/25qubr9.jpg

:hysteric:

debby
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:39 PM
Mashatards are always entertaining :lol:

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:42 PM
Mashatards are always entertaining :lol:

I don't know about all that, but this thread...this thread....God bless the OP. :worship:

I haven't laughed this hard in a minute.

Gdsimmons
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:44 PM
http://i42.tinypic.com/25qubr9.jpg

:spit::spit:

le bon vivant
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:52 PM
Yeah well are you that guy that reads people future in the coffee cup ? :rolleyes: If you are then you promised me that Serena wasn't going to win a single slam on the 03/10/20xx, in 2006 you also had predicted 0 slams for Ana and in 2009 0 slams for Franscesca and you failed all yet you're still coming back to haunt me with Maria. :fiery:

The first time I lost my Ferrari 208 GTB (1980) my father had offered me for christmas and that time I'm not going to put my Mondial Quattrovalvole (1982) in play for you, genius. :rolleyes:Huh?
http://i26.tinypic.com/ke9ff6.gif

young_gunner913
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:53 PM
Huh?
http://i26.tinypic.com/ke9ff6.gif

Noo why?!!?!??! :hysteric: LBV you slay me with these gifs. :bigcry:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 9th, 2010, 08:01 PM
Huh?
http://i26.tinypic.com/ke9ff6.gif

what????????? :sobbing:

Gdsimmons
Jul 9th, 2010, 09:38 PM
Huh?
http://i26.tinypic.com/ke9ff6.gif

:haha::haha:

Marilyn Monheaux
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:26 AM
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5260/208hd3kjpg.gif

MakarovaFan
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:51 AM
BTW i love the people who have replied and STILL DONT GET IT,im only to page 3 and its lmfao u morons....its like you try and make me look dumb when u all are the idiots. Anways MY POINT was, how and why are these two players constantly put up against one another??? Maria is only 23 you cant even compare the two.....a better comparison would be what Maria has achieved by her 23rd year of life and what Serena has achieved by hers......do so and i guarantee that things are alot more even!!!

MakarovaFan
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:53 AM
07-10 Maria has been around longer than 04-07 Maria was.

At what point do we say that this Maria is the "normal" Maria? After 5 seasons? After she retires?
Wow did you read what u wrote??? 07-10 Maria missed what a year worth of time and played another 6 months with injury......So explain?

1jackson2001
Jul 10th, 2010, 01:31 AM
BTW i love the people who have replied and STILL DONT GET IT,im only to page 3 and its lmfao u morons....its like you try and make me look dumb when u all are the idiots. Anways MY POINT was, how and why are these two players constantly put up against one another??? Maria is only 23 you cant even compare the two.....a better comparison would be what Maria has achieved by her 23rd year of life and what Serena has achieved by hers......do so and i guarantee that things are alot more even!!!
Compare them by their 23rd year of life?
Serena at that point already completed her SERENA SLAM, 4 majors in a row. Therefore winning on every surface in a row. And 6 slams to Maria's 3 slams at that respective age. So yes...Serena still >> Maria.

Maria is a great player in her own right but she's far from Serena in terms of "greatness".

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 10th, 2010, 02:01 AM
BTW i love the people who have replied and STILL DONT GET IT,im only to page 3 and its lmfao u morons....its like you try and make me look dumb when u all are the idiots. Anways MY POINT was, how and why are these two players constantly put up against one another??? Maria is only 23 you cant even compare the two.....a better comparison would be what Maria has achieved by her 23rd year of life and what Serena has achieved by hers......do so and i guarantee that things are alot more even!!!



you do realise if you do that your ass is still pwned :lol:

serena slam >>>> anything maria has done by her 23rd year :lol: you're making maria fans look bad so plz stop

Ackms421
Jul 10th, 2010, 02:10 AM
And also if you want to take out clay because it's Rafa's best surface (which is a ridiculous thing to do) then you should also take out grass because it's Roger's best surface. That brings the h2h back in Rafa's favor. Also, if you compare them by respective achievements by age, Rafa has 8 slams at his 24th birthday while Roger had only 5, so...yeah.

Ackms421
Jul 10th, 2010, 02:12 AM
Oh yeah, and obviously Serena's loads and loads better than Sharapova. Comparing achievements side-by-side by using their respective ages reflects Serena's superiority as much as comparing overall achievements would. Someone trying to say Maria is even close (in any way shape or form) is impossible and ridiculous.

Olórin
Jul 10th, 2010, 02:13 AM
Another idiotic thread by an idiot. Hello GM.

Serenita
Jul 10th, 2010, 02:17 AM
BTW i love the people who have replied and STILL DONT GET IT,im only to page 3 and its lmfao u morons....its like you try and make me look dumb when u all are the idiots. Anways MY POINT was, how and why are these two players constantly put up against one another??? Maria is only 23 you cant even compare the two.....a better comparison would be what Maria has achieved by her 23rd year of life and what Serena has achieved by hers......do so and i guarantee that things are alot more even!!!


http://www.about-alcohol-abuse.com/Des2Gif3.gif

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 10th, 2010, 02:24 AM
http://www.about-alcohol-abuse.com/Des2Gif3.gif

gufawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

:spit:

acetoace
Jul 10th, 2010, 02:28 AM
BTW i love the people who have replied and STILL DONT GET IT,im only to page 3 and its lmfao u morons....its like you try and make me look dumb when u all are the idiots. Anways MY POINT was, how and why are these two players constantly put up against one another??? Maria is only 23 you cant even compare the two.....a better comparison would be what Maria has achieved by her 23rd year of life and what Serena has achieved by hers......do so and i guarantee that things are alot more even!!!



Wow......pova fans are desperate to bring pova back to relevance. Mentioning pova's name in the same sentence with Serena is the way to re-invent your fast degenerating player huh?

Let me get this straight........So, a status pova has FAILED to EARN on the tennis court, moronic fans like you think you can bestow on her on a tennis message board? LMAO!!!!

What Maria has done at 23? Is that the litmus test now?:lol:

Food for thought FOOL......With 1 slam left in the 2010 season (which she will not win) & seeing as pova is fast approaching 24, why don't you come back in 2012 when pova would be 25 and tell us what she has accomplished then?:o

gazeboes2004
Jul 10th, 2010, 03:04 AM
Ummm Serena had 7 GS by 23, had the Serena Slam and over a year at being number 1 :tape: :lol:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jul 10th, 2010, 04:25 AM
Ummm Serena had 7 GS by 23, had the Serena Slam and over a year at being number 1 :tape: :lol:

And not to mention by that time had 6 grand slam doubles titles and an olympic gold medal. Whoever started this thread really didn't have Maria's best interests at heart :o

Vikapower
Jul 10th, 2010, 05:06 AM
Wow......pova fans are desperate to bring pova back to relevance. Mentioning pova's name in the same sentence with Serena is the way to re-invent your fast degenerating player huh?

Let me get this straight........So, a status pova has FAILED to EARN on the tennis court, moronic fans like you think you can bestow on her on a tennis message board? LMAO!!!! What Maria has done at 23? Is that the litmus test now?:lol:

Food for thought FOOL......With 1 slam left in the 2010 season (which she will not win) & seeing as pova is fast approaching 24, why don't you come back in 2012 when pova would be 25 and tell us what she has accomplished then?:o
Everyone on TF has agreed that Serena is the most technically unaccomplished player to have ever lifted a racket and Maria beats Serena on that standpoint by afar. Now, as people in here absolutely want bash Maria they take the uncomparable to compare. :lol: :help:

You're such a fool to say that at age 23 Maria didn't accomplish much. Let's stop this dumb Serena/Maria thing and compare the comparable Justine for instance at the same age had 4 GS semis, 1 final, 1 quaters to Maria's 5 GS semis, 1 final, 3 quaters, Justine having just 1 GS more than Maria at the same age and Maria has just entered her 23rd so she's more than ever on same standards.

Justine at 28 has 7 GS, Maria is just 23 and the field is going to weaken with Serena, Venus, Justine, Dementieva and maybe Kim out by next year so what are you some sort of tennis God ? :help: Seriously are you even a tennis fan ? :help:

It's so easy to bash Maria on an achievement standpoint on which ever angle you take it when comparing to Serena as easy as it is to bash any player could be Kim or any other slam champ when comparing to Serena so I don't really get your point of view.

Serena is very very lucky to have the best woman serve to have existed since tennis has been created roughly between 1868 and 1870 to get her easy last 3/4 but when you take a scope to watch the other parts of her game she's top 120 with 13 minimouses. :rolleyes: :lol:

I've read ALL your messages since Jan 29th, 2007, 06:59 AM and by the looks you're an active trolling Maria hater and 70-80%+ of your 258 + 1 more you're going to write just after me are Maria bashing posts and "Serena is better than Maria" glory writings. See how relevant you are. :rolleyes: :lol:

le bon vivant
Jul 10th, 2010, 05:20 AM
Everyone on TF has agreed that Serena is the most technically unaccomplished player to have ever lifted a racket and Maria beats Serena on that standpoint by afar. Now, as people in here absolutely want bash Maria they take the uncomparable to compare. :lol: :help:

You're such a fool to say that at age 23 Maria didn't accomplish much. Let's stop this dumb Serena/Maria thing and compare the comparable Justine for instance at the same age had 4 GS semis, 1 final, 1 quaters to Maria's 5 GS semis, 1 final, 3 quaters, Justine having just 1 GS more than Maria at the same age and Maria has just entered her 23rd so she's more than ever on same standards.

Justine at 28 has 7 GS, Maria is just 23 and the field is going to weaken with Serena, Venus, Justine, Dementieva and maybe Kim out by next year so what are you some sort of tennis God ? :help: Seriously are you even a tennis fan ? :help:

It's so easy to bash Maria on an achievement standpoint on which ever angle you take it when comparing to Serena as easy as it is to bash any player could be Kim or any other slam champ when comparing to Serena so I don't really get your point of view.

Serena is very very lucky to have the best woman serve to have existed since tennis has been created roughly between 1868 and 1870 to get her easy last 3/4 but when you take a scope to watch the other parts of her game she's top 120 with 13 minimouses. :rolleyes:

I've read ALL your messages since Jan 29th, 2007, 06:59 AM and by the looks you're an active trolling Maria hater and 70-80%+ of your 258 + 1 more you're going to write just after me are Maria bashing posts and "Serena is better than Maria" glory writings. :rolleyes:http://i25.tinypic.com/25guhp0.gif

Gdsimmons
Jul 10th, 2010, 05:24 AM
Everyone on TF has agreed that Serena is the most technically unaccomplished player to have ever lifted a racket and Maria beats Serena on that standpoint by afar. Now, as people in here absolutely want bash Maria they take the uncomparable to compare. :lol: :help:

You're such a fool to say that at age 23 Maria didn't accomplish much. Let's stop this dumb Serena/Maria thing and compare the comparable Justine for instance at the same age had 4 GS semis, 1 final, 1 quaters to Maria's 5 GS semis, 1 final, 3 quaters, Justine having just 1 GS more than Maria at the same age and Maria has just entered her 23rd so she's more than ever on same standards.

Justine at 28 has 7 GS, Maria is just 23 and the field is going to weaken with Serena, Venus, Justine, Dementieva and maybe Kim out by next year so what are you some sort of tennis God ? :help: Seriously are you even a tennis fan ? :help:

It's so easy to bash Maria on an achievement standpoint on which ever angle you take it when comparing to Serena as easy as it is to bash any player could be Kim or any other slam champ when comparing to Serena so I don't really get your point of view.

Serena is very very lucky to have the best woman serve to have existed since tennis has been created roughly between 1868 and 1870 to get her easy last 3/4 but when you take a scope to watch the other parts of her game she's top 120 with 13 minimouses. :rolleyes: :lol:

I've read ALL your messages since Jan 29th, 2007, 06:59 AM and by the looks you're an active trolling Maria hater and 70-80%+ of your 258 + 1 more you're going to write just after me are Maria bashing posts and "Serena is better than Maria" glory writings. See how relevant you are. :rolleyes: :lol:

Your delusion deserves a clap
http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=637292 (http://www.gifsoup.com/view/637292/whitney-clap.html) GIFSoup (http://www.gifsoup.com/)

Sp!ffy
Jul 10th, 2010, 05:38 AM
Oh my god people, give this thread a rest.

Would you seriously let a thread go on if it said you cant compare Oudin to Serena because Oudin is still young :confused: Everyone knows that Serena is better. And its not something personal against Maria. Serena is better than all the other players...unless you want to go into the Graf, Navratilova, blah blah debates.

Maria's an accomplished player and no one is trying to put her down when they say that Serena is just simply better. It's just a fact. And the OP should know better than to post a thread like this. :weirdo:

Serenita
Jul 10th, 2010, 05:54 AM
Everyone on TF has agreed that Serena is the most technically unaccomplished player to have ever lifted a racket and Maria beats Serena on that standpoint by afar. Now, as people in here absolutely want bash Maria they take the uncomparable to compare. :lol: :help:

You're such a fool to say that at age 23 Maria didn't accomplish much. Let's stop this dumb Serena/Maria thing and compare the comparable Justine for instance at the same age had 4 GS semis, 1 final, 1 quaters to Maria's 5 GS semis, 1 final, 3 quaters, Justine having just 1 GS more than Maria at the same age and Maria has just entered her 23rd so she's more than ever on same standards.

Justine at 28 has 7 GS, Maria is just 23 and the field is going to weaken with Serena, Venus, Justine, Dementieva and maybe Kim out by next year so what are you some sort of tennis God ? :help: Seriously are you even a tennis fan ? :help:

It's so easy to bash Maria on an achievement standpoint on which ever angle you take it when comparing to Serena as easy as it is to bash any player could be Kim or any other slam champ when comparing to Serena so I don't really get your point of view.

Serena is very very lucky to have the best woman serve to have existed since tennis has been created roughly between 1868 and 1870 to get her easy last 3/4 but when you take a scope to watch the other parts of her game she's top 120 with 13 minimouses. :rolleyes: :lol:

I've read ALL your messages since Jan 29th, 2007, 06:59 AM and by the looks you're an active trolling Maria hater and 70-80%+ of your 258 + 1 more you're going to write just after me are Maria bashing posts and "Serena is better than Maria" glory writings. See how relevant you are. :rolleyes: :lol:

:help::scared::scared::scared:

1jackson2001
Jul 10th, 2010, 06:21 AM
Oh my god people, give this thread a rest.

Would you seriously let a thread go on if it said you cant compare Oudin to Serena because Oudin is still young :confused: Everyone knows that Serena is better. And its not something personal against Maria. Serena is better than all the other players...unless you want to go into the Graf, Navratilova, blah blah debates.

Maria's an accomplished player and no one is trying to put her down when they say that Serena is just simply better. It's just a fact. And the OP should know better than to post a thread like this. :weirdo:
Exactly. Maria is an accomplished and successful player by almost any professional standard. The OP didn't need to have her panties in a wad and spew frustration just because she's feeling crabby down there.

SerenaClijsters
Jul 10th, 2010, 07:12 AM
Everyone on TF has agreed that Serena is the most technically unaccomplished player to have ever lifted a racket and Maria beats Serena on that standpoint by afar. Now, as people in here absolutely want bash Maria they take the uncomparable to compare. :lol: :help:

-REALLY? EVERYONE? If Serena is considered as technically unaccomplished and has managed to win 13 GS,own Maria 6-2 H2H then I really don't know how terrible you regard Maria as in your eyes...:devil::devil:

You're such a fool to say that at age 23 Maria didn't accomplish much. Let's stop this dumb Serena/Maria thing and compare the comparable Justine for instance at the same age had 4 GS semis, 1 final, 1 quaters to Maria's 5 GS semis, 1 final, 3 quaters, Justine having just 1 GS more than Maria at the same age and Maria has just entered her 23rd so she's more than ever on same standards.

Justine at 28 has 7 GS, Maria is just 23 and the field is going to weaken with Serena, Venus, Justine, Dementieva and maybe Kim out by next year so what are you some sort of tennis God ? :help: Seriously are you even a tennis fan ? :help:

It's so easy to bash Maria on an achievement standpoint on which ever angle you take it when comparing to Serena as easy as it is to bash any player could be Kim or any other slam champ when comparing to Serena so I don't really get your point of view.

Serena is very very lucky to have the best woman serve to have existed since tennis has been created roughly between 1868 and 1870 to get her easy last 3/4 but when you take a scope to watch the other parts of her game she's top 120 with 13 minimouses. :rolleyes: :lol:

-Sour grapes much? Let's face it,Maria has accomplished a heck lot at 23 with 3 GS and all respect to her for that,but to diminish Serena's greatness by saying she got her great serve only due to "luck" and having 13 minimouses? People like Maria,and the rest of the tour sure can only dream of having those "13 minimouses"!!

I've read ALL your messages since Jan 29th, 2007, 06:59 AM and by the looks you're an active trolling Maria hater and 70-80%+ of your 258 + 1 more you're going to write just after me are Maria bashing posts and "Serena is better than Maria" glory writings. See how relevant you are. :rolleyes: :lol:

:help::help:

vikapower is such a hopeless troll,bringing such a filthy name to other Maria fans. I'm pretty sure you're leading a delusional and sad life. Your patheticness makes me laugh. :)

acetoace
Jul 10th, 2010, 07:46 AM
Everyone on TF has agreed that Serena is the most technically unaccomplished player to have ever lifted a racket and Maria beats Serena on that standpoint by afar. Now, as people in here absolutely want bash Maria they take the uncomparable to compare. :lol: :help:

You're such a fool to say that at age 23 Maria didn't accomplish much. Let's stop this dumb Serena/Maria thing and compare the comparable Justine for instance at the same age had 4 GS semis, 1 final, 1 quaters to Maria's 5 GS semis, 1 final, 3 quaters, Justine having just 1 GS more than Maria at the same age and Maria has just entered her 23rd so she's more than ever on same standards.

Like I said, the player in question is not worth being mentioned in the same sentence as Serena. I leave it at that. Hingis won how many slams at 23 and where is she today?

Justine at 28 has 7 GS, Maria is just 23 and the field is going to weaken with Serena, Venus, Justine, Dementieva and maybe Kim out by next year so what are you some sort of tennis God ? :help: Seriously are you even a tennis fan ? :help:

I know u're crazy but I didn't realize the magnitude of your stupidity. So, you KNOW that Venus, Serena, Justine, Dementieva and Kim will be out next year? Maybe u should add Li Na to the list since you already assumed she would be playing second fiddle to.....ummmm, u know! Hehehehe dream on!!!!! No surprise here. The eventuality you hoping for is the ONLY chance your player has at win anything significant. Bad news is, that will not happen. Reality can be harsh sometimes u know. Good to see "reality" change the wapped assumption moronic fans like u made in 2004 that the "charity" slam winner will DOMINATE post 04 Wimbledon. Ummmm, how is that holding up? For all you know, "shoulder girl" may not even be around on the courts by the time the above players choose to quit the game......, just saying! NEWS FLASH for u, The GREAT ONE is no longer handing out charitable gifts. At least, not to the player u championing here. If HOPE is all u have left, I'm afraid your player has a longlonglong wait ahead of her.

It's so easy to bash Maria on an achievement standpoint on which ever angle you take it when comparing to Serena as easy as it is to bash any player could be Kim or any other slam champ when comparing to Serena so I don't really get your point of view.

Serena is very very lucky to have the best woman serve to have existed since tennis has been created roughly between 1868 and 1870 to get her easy last 3/4 but when you take a scope to watch the other parts of her game she's top 120 with 13 minimouses. :rolleyes:

Well, too bad the only gift your player has is "Screaching" like her brains is being fucked out. I bet the "lucky serve" is the dream talent your player wishes she could have. Common, tell me......, I know u wish your player has the same talent as the GREAT ONE. Don't be shy, we know her fans secretly wish that:rolleyes:.

[B]Talking of the "Scope" and rest of her game thing. This very much apply to your player. What is she without her serve? NOTHING!! What is she without her ground game? NOTHING!! What did she win or has won without her serve? Nada!!!! Even when the GREAT ONE's serve or ground game is off, there is evidence on record of her still winning slams as in 2005 AO & 2010 Wimbledon. [U]Same can't be said of the "wanna be" player in "shoulder girl".

I've read ALL your messages since Jan 29th, 2007, 06:59 AM and by the looks you're an active trolling Maria hater and 70-80%+ of your 258 + 1 more you're going to write just after me are Maria bashing posts and "Serena is better than Maria" glory writings. See how relevant you are. :rolleyes:

As harsh as this may sound, make no mistake...... I came here to challenge any garbage idiotic fans like you spout on this board. I am particularly out for you povanuts. Your player is about the only one on tour attempts have been made to place on a pedestal she don't deserve nor merit. To that extent, I have, without any reservation, challenged and continue to challenge all Maria Sharapova related idiotic claims as well as all or any unfounded assertions/statements relating thereto. Indeed, the challenge has worked pretty good. No sane tennis fan on here and in the world subscribe to the BS povanuts spew on here anymore. Have u read this entire thread? Fact is, ensuing EVENTS have FINALLY put Maria in her place and there is nothing that stupid and disheartened fans like you can do about it. At this point, the disparity in GREATNESS between THE GREAT ONE and Maria is as huge as the one between a RIVER and a SEA. Get the drift?????????????

I like tennis but I don't live for it. Unlike u, just going by your post count, it is evident you have no life outside this board. You live on here like your life depended on it. Your punnani has been bleeding Ethanoic Acid since the GREAT ONE won her 13th slam. Sucks to be u right now. Here is praying your broken heart never mends and that your "hopes" continue to go unfulfilled as has been since Wimbledon 2004. :bounce:

Sharapowerr
Jul 10th, 2010, 06:05 PM
The thread-starter ain't even a Serena-fan, so how can it be hypocrisy from Serena-fans?

Maria vs Serena is a done and discussed thing. We respect Maria, but right now she and Serena are on two totally different levels.

What do you actually mean with diffirent level? the ammount of the GS's or their game, because the last match was very close, Serena just served out of this world...

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 10th, 2010, 06:57 PM
Everyone on TF has agreed that Serena is the most technically unaccomplished player to have ever lifted a racket and Maria beats Serena on that standpoint by afar. Now, as people in here absolutely want bash Maria they take the uncomparable to compare. :lol: :help:

You're such a fool to say that at age 23 Maria didn't accomplish much. Let's stop this dumb Serena/Maria thing and compare the comparable Justine for instance at the same age had 4 GS semis, 1 final, 1 quaters to Maria's 5 GS semis, 1 final, 3 quaters, Justine having just 1 GS more than Maria at the same age and Maria has just entered her 23rd so she's more than ever on same standards.

Justine at 28 has 7 GS, Maria is just 23 and the field is going to weaken with Serena, Venus, Justine, Dementieva and maybe Kim out by next year so what are you some sort of tennis God ? :help: Seriously are you even a tennis fan ? :help:

It's so easy to bash Maria on an achievement standpoint on which ever angle you take it when comparing to Serena as easy as it is to bash any player could be Kim or any other slam champ when comparing to Serena so I don't really get your point of view.

Serena is very very lucky to have the best woman serve to have existed since tennis has been created roughly between 1868 and 1870 to get her easy last 3/4 but when you take a scope to watch the other parts of her game she's top 120 with 13 minimouses. :rolleyes: :lol:

I've read ALL your messages since Jan 29th, 2007, 06:59 AM and by the looks you're an active trolling Maria hater and 70-80%+ of your 258 + 1 more you're going to write just after me are Maria bashing posts and "Serena is better than Maria" glory writings. See how relevant you are. :rolleyes: :lol:


:spit:

shoryuken
Jul 10th, 2010, 10:09 PM
As harsh as this may sound, make no mistake...... I came here to challenge any garbage idiotic fans like you spout on this board. I am particularly out for you povanuts. Your player is about the only one on tour attempts have been made to place on a pedestal she don't deserve nor merit. To that extent, I have, without any reservation, challenged and continue to challenge all Maria Sharapova related idiotic claims as well as all or any unfounded assertions/statements relating thereto. Indeed, the challenge has worked pretty good. No sane tennis fan on here and in the world subscribe to the BS povanuts spew on here anymore. Have u read this entire thread? Fact is, ensuing EVENTS have FINALLY put Maria in her place and there is nothing that stupid and disheartened fans like you can do about it. At this point, the disparity in GREATNESS between THE GREAT ONE and Maria is as huge as the one between a RIVER and a SEA. Get the drift?????????????

I like tennis but I don't live for it. Unlike u, just going by your post count, it is evident you have no life outside this board. You live on here like your life depended on it. Your punnani has been bleeding Ethanoic Acid since the GREAT ONE won her 13th slam. Sucks to be u right now. Here is praying your broken heart never mends and that your "hopes" continue to go unfulfilled as has been since Wimbledon 2004. :bounce:

Dayum! :eek: :scared:

volta
Jul 10th, 2010, 10:19 PM
As harsh as this may sound, make no mistake...... I came here to challenge any garbage idiotic fans like you spout on this board. I am particularly out for you povanuts. Your player is about the only one on tour attempts have been made to place on a pedestal she don't deserve nor merit. To that extent, I have, without any reservation, challenged and continue to challenge all Maria Sharapova related idiotic claims as well as all or any unfounded assertions/statements relating thereto. Indeed, the challenge has worked pretty good. No sane tennis fan on here and in the world subscribe to the BS povanuts spew on here anymore. Have u read this entire thread? Fact is, ensuing EVENTS have FINALLY put Maria in her place and there is nothing that stupid and disheartened fans like you can do about it. At this point, the disparity in GREATNESS between THE GREAT ONE and Maria is as huge as the one between a RIVER and a SEA. Get the drift?????????????

I like tennis but I don't live for it. Unlike u, just going by your post count, it is evident you have no life outside this board. You live on here like your life depended on it. Your punnani has been bleeding Ethanoic Acid since the GREAT ONE won her 13th slam. Sucks to be u right now. Here is praying your broken heart never mends and that your "hopes" continue to go unfulfilled as has been since Wimbledon 2004. :bounce:
Lmfaooooo :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Gdsimmons
Jul 10th, 2010, 10:24 PM
As harsh as this may sound, make no mistake...... I came here to challenge any garbage idiotic fans like you spout on this board. I am particularly out for you povanuts. Your player is about the only one on tour attempts have been made to place on a pedestal she don't deserve nor merit. To that extent, I have, without any reservation, challenged and continue to challenge all Maria Sharapova related idiotic claims as well as all or any unfounded assertions/statements relating thereto. Indeed, the challenge has worked pretty good. No sane tennis fan on here and in the world subscribe to the BS povanuts spew on here anymore. Have u read this entire thread? Fact is, ensuing EVENTS have FINALLY put Maria in her place and there is nothing that stupid and disheartened fans like you can do about it. At this point, the disparity in GREATNESS between THE GREAT ONE and Maria is as huge as the one between a RIVER and a SEA. Get the drift?????????????

I like tennis but I don't live for it. Unlike u, just going by your post count, it is evident you have no life outside this board. You live on here like your life depended on it. Your punnani has been bleeding Ethanoic Acid since the GREAT ONE won her 13th slam. Sucks to be u right now. Here is praying your broken heart never mends and that your "hopes" continue to go unfulfilled as has been since Wimbledon 2004. :bounce:


DAMN
http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=622599 (http://www.gifsoup.com/view/622599/ooohhh.html) GIFSoup (http://www.gifsoup.com/)

shoryuken
Jul 10th, 2010, 10:34 PM
DAMN
http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=622599 (http://www.gifsoup.com/view/622599/ooohhh.html) GIFSoup (http://www.gifsoup.com/)

her face! :haha::haha:

Vikapower
Jul 10th, 2010, 11:39 PM
@ Acetoace

Listen I have nothing against you but could you for the first time of your life bring tennis facts that would say that Maria is a faker ? It's easy for you to be disrespectful but a lot more difficult to talk facts, technic or tennis related, sad. :rolleyes:

You are free to dislike, diss, troll on or like any player you want but it comes at a stage where in all discussions engaging Maria you come and preach the anti-Maria good word. What are you ? Some sort of messiah from Christ to save human beeings from sharapova and the Russians ? I'm sorry you're so scared of our lovely Siberian princess' talent otherwise you'ld just pass your way so she's somewhat affecting your inner person despite your final desesperate try to deny.

I don't blame you, don't take me wrong either because we both hate posters who gets carried away by their emotions and we do agree that we fans over exaggerate facts and Serena's technic when compared to Steffi, Lindsey, Kim nowadays etc... who are all sweet poetry in action.

Yes it desesperates me to see someone with so much lackness top the game but her will, her fighting spirit... has changed and will forever change my vision of the game because that means you're not obliged to have textbook FH, BH etc... or natural talent to win 13 GS but just with will, great will you can lift mountains and for that I respect and love Serena.

As I already said Maria can as well win the 2 next slams with your Great One in the finals having served 25+ aces in both, Serena can as well completely lost her serve by tomorrow and never win a slam again... the truth of today isn't the truth of tomorrow and I'm sorry your assurance will fail you in the future.

Why in the frigging world do you want to compare a SEA and RIVER ? What age are you really ? :help:

Why not compare Maria and players who are closer to her achievements or girls of her generation ?

Oh wait I have the answer it's Because you refuse to see Maria's greatness and indeed at 23 she has had way more better stats than her country women, girls of her generation or girls like Kim at same age and it hurts you to recognize it because hating Maria with 0 solid arguments is sweeter. :tape:

As for the personal attacks I've ignored them and decided to keep the discussion decent but The Great One ? :haha: Are you not that guy who said that a SEA and RIVER can not be compared ? :rolleyes: I'm surprised you're not applying that to own analysis. :tape:

xan
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:14 AM
@ Acetoace

Listen I have nothing against you but could you for the first time of your life bring tennis facts that would say that Maria is a faker ? It's easy for you to be disrespectful but a lot more difficult to talk facts, technic or tennis related, sad. :rolleyes:

You are free to dislike, diss, troll on or like any player you want but it comes at a stage where in all discussions engaging Maria you come and preach the anti-Maria good word. What are you ? Some sort of messiah from Christ to save human beeings from sharapova and the Russians ? I'm sorry you're so scared of our lovely Siberian princess' talent otherwise you'ld just pass your way so she's somewhat affecting your inner person despite your final desesperate try to deny.

I don't blame you, don't take me wrong either because we both hate posters who gets carried away by their emotions and we do agree that we fans over exaggerate facts and Serena's technic when compared to Steffi, Lindsey, Kim nowadays etc... who are all sweet poetry in action.

Yes it desesperates me to see someone with so much lackness top the game but her will, her fighting spirit... has changed and will forever change my vision of the game because that means you're not obliged to have textbook FH, BH etc... or natural talent to win 13 GS but just with will, great will you can lift mountains and for that I respect and love Serena.

As I already said Maria can as well win the 2 next slams with your Great One in the finals having served 25+ aces in both, Serena can as well completely lost her serve by tomorrow and never win a slam again... the truth of today isn't the truth of tomorrow and I'm sorry your assurance will fail you in the future.

Why in the frigging world do you want to compare a SEA and RIVER ? What age are you really ? :help:

Why not compare Maria and players who are closer to her achievements or girls of her generation ?

Oh wait I have the answer it's Because you refuse to see Maria's greatness and indeed at 23 she has had way more better stats than her country women, girls of her generation or girls like Kim at same age and it hurts you to recognize it because hating Maria with 0 solid arguments is sweeter. :tape:

As for the personal attacks I've ignored them and decided to keep the discussion decent but The Great One ? :haha: Are you not that guy who said that a SEA and RIVER can not be compared ? :rolleyes: I'm surprised you're not applying that to own analysis. :tape:

Good points. Some Serena fans seem to have this ultra-defensive thing re Maria.

Tennisation
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:27 AM
Strange that Serena fans would fall bait to Pova fans over the comparisons. There really is no comparison and the fact that Serena will never lose to Pova again until the day she retires so just let them rant on all they want. 13 (and counting) vs. 3 (and stalling)...what's there to talk about?

Dominic
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:32 AM
Lol come on, as soon as Maria finds her old form, she'll slug her again lol, and thats why so many are insecure.

L'Enfant Sauvage
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:36 AM
I don't think Rena fans are "defensive," per se. I'm a Rena fan, and though she has almost twice as many slams, comparing her to Justine or Venus is... acceptable. I mean, she had pretty close H2Hes with them, and they can feasibly beat her if healthy and with the right mentality. But... Sharapova? Their H2H alone dismisses any comparisons(6-2, not to mention that appalling Aussie Open 07 massacre.) Like others mentioned, even speaking in terms of relativity - What Maria accomplished versus what Serena accomplished at the same age. In case you decided to gloss over the facts, Maria has 3 GS titles at 23. Serena, at 23 had 7 GS Singles, 4 of which were consecutive(Serena Slam, anybody?) Not to mention 6 GS Doubles with Venus, and an Olympic Gold Medal. That's the end of the discussion right there.

And Vikapower, please don't embarrass yourself anymore by bringing Serena's technique into this. Firs of all, between Maria and Serena, who's the one who can't seem to avoid double faulting at least once per service game? With a higher unforced error count, and her feet planted firmly on the ground, her technique pales in comparison to Rena. Believe it or not, serve IS a part of Serena's technique, and she has proven that she not only has power, but an astounding ability to target lines from seemingly impossible angles. And then we have Serena's speed and willingness to go after every ball. Maria just cannot compare in any way shape or form.

I know my post may seem to be harsh, but I really DON'T dislike Maria at all. Comparing her to Serena is just like sending a lamb to the slaughter.

Dominic
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:40 AM
Maria just cannot compare in any way shape or form.


Do you know something called groundstrokes?

Gdsimmons
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:46 AM
Lol come on, as soon as Maria finds her old form, she'll slug her again lol, and thats why so many are insecure.

Do you know something called groundstrokes?

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/js2432/whitney-1.gif

Volcana
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:50 AM
Oh wait I have the answer it's Because you refuse to see Maria's greatness and indeed at 23 she has had way more better stats than her country women, girls of her generation or girls like Kim at same age You invite a comparison to Serena at age 23.

However, I'm not goin to address that. What I will say is that, at age 23, without her serve, Serena would do better than Sharapova without her serve. Why? Serena runs a lot faster. If you don;t have a big serve, you end up playing a lot more defense. Defense means running.

Dominic
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:55 AM
You invite a comparison to Serena at age 23.

However, I'm not goin to address that. What I will say is that, at age 23, without her serve, Serena would do better than Sharapova without her serve. Why? Serena runs a lot faster. If you don;t have a big serve, you end up playing a lot more defense. Defense means running.

If Serena didnt have her serve she probably would have never won a GS. She is sooo not impressive from the ground, especially lately.

bandabou
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:55 AM
:haha: :rolls: So now this turned into a : Serena can't play, Serena's bad technique..thing?! Really?!
Anybody seen Maria's forehand? There's a reason why Maria has had so many struggles with shoulder injuries.

But I guess vikapower waa just getting too desperate. :lol: It's cool.

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:57 AM
http://www.about-alcohol-abuse.com/Des2Gif3.gif

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

bandabou
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:02 AM
If Serena didnt have her serve she probably would have never won a GS. She is sooo not impressive from the ground, especially lately.

:haha: :rolls: U don't happen to be a Dokic-fan, do you?

Because that'd explain a lot of things...:rolls:

Dominic
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:04 AM
:haha: :rolls: U don't happen to be a Dokic-fan, do you?

Because that'd explain a lot of things...:rolls:

Oh go on, I'm listening.

mykarma
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:07 AM
http://i25.tinypic.com/25guhp0.gif

Dayum! :eek: :scared:
This thread is hilarious.
:rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls:

If the fvck are some of these people talking about? :happy:

L'Enfant Sauvage
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:09 AM
If Serena didnt have her serve she probably would have never won a GS. She is sooo not impressive from the ground, especially lately.

... Seriously? Ugh... "If Serena didn't have her serve"/"If ______ didn't have her backhand"/"If so-and-so were wheelchair bound." Since when did a person's serving become irrelevant? Serena's serve is a part of her game, just as Maria's is(for better or worse.) Deal with it.

mykarma
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:10 AM
DAMN
http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=622599 (http://www.gifsoup.com/view/622599/ooohhh.html) GIFSoup (http://www.gifsoup.com/)
I am crying and that gif says it all.

Dominic
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:11 AM
... Seriously? Ugh... "If Serena didn't have her serve"/"If ______ didn't have her backhand"/"If so-and-so were wheelchair bound." Since when did a person's serving become irrelevant? Serena's serve is a part of her game, just as Maria's is(for better or worse.) Deal with it.

AHEM cant you freakin see that I was quoting someone who actually brought this up!? hello!

mykarma
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:28 AM
Do you know something called groundstrokes?
You mean those things Serena had zooming past Vera at the Wimbledon finals?

L'Enfant Sauvage
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:32 AM
AHEM cant you freakin see that I was quoting someone who actually brought this up!? hello!

You act as though she wins each service game by smashing four consecutive aces, or that she can only get points by holding serve. Yes, the aces do help, but it's not like her serve has been out of this world besides Wimbledon this year(and last, I suppose.) Besides, look at all the bagels she dealt out at Wimbledon. Factoring out her holds of serve, that's three consecutive service breaks earned. Looks like she'd do just fine without a GOAT serve.

Donny
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:32 AM
Strange that Serena fans would fall bait to Pova fans over the comparisons. There really is no comparison and the fact that Serena will never lose to Pova again until the day she retires so just let them rant on all they want. 13 (and counting) vs. 3 (and stalling)...what's there to talk about?

I don't speak for all Serena fans, but these types of debates, where the other side has no case, are fun.

acetoace
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:22 AM
@ Acetoace

Listen I have nothing against you but could you for the first time of your life bring tennis facts that would say that Maria is a faker ? It's easy for you to be disrespectful but a lot more difficult to talk facts, technic or tennis related, sad. :rolleyes:

You are free to dislike, diss, troll on or like any player you want but it comes at a stage where in all discussions engaging Maria you come and preach the anti-Maria good word. What are you ? Some sort of messiah from Christ to save human beeings from sharapova and the Russians ? I'm sorry you're so scared of our lovely Siberian princess' talent otherwise you'ld just pass your way so she's somewhat affecting your inner person despite your final desesperate try to deny.

I don't blame you, don't take me wrong either because we both hate posters who gets carried away by their emotions and we do agree that we fans over exaggerate facts and Serena's technic when compared to Steffi, Lindsey, Kim nowadays etc... who are all sweet poetry in action.

Yes it desesperates me to see someone with so much lackness top the game but her will, her fighting spirit... has changed and will forever change my vision of the game because that means you're not obliged to have textbook FH, BH etc... or natural talent to win 13 GS but just with will, great will you can lift mountains and for that I respect and love Serena.

As I already said Maria can as well win the 2 next slams with your Great One in the finals having served 25+ aces in both, Serena can as well completely lost her serve by tomorrow and never win a slam again... the truth of today isn't the truth of tomorrow and I'm sorry your assurance will fail you in the future.

Why in the frigging world do you want to compare a SEA and RIVER ? What age are you really ? :help:

Why not compare Maria and players who are closer to her achievements or girls of her generation ?

Oh wait I have the answer it's Because you refuse to see Maria's greatness and indeed at 23 she has had way more better stats than her country women, girls of her generation or girls like Kim at same age and it hurts you to recognize it because hating Maria with 0 solid arguments is sweeter. :tape:

As for the personal attacks I've ignored them and decided to keep the discussion decent but The Great One ? :haha: Are you not that guy who said that a SEA and RIVER can not be compared ? :rolleyes: I'm surprised you're not applying that to own analysis. :tape:

:lol:

Dominic
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:33 AM
You act as though she wins each service game by smashing four consecutive aces, or that she can only get points by holding serve. Yes, the aces do help, but it's not like her serve has been out of this world besides Wimbledon this year(and last, I suppose.) Besides, look at all the bagels she dealt out at Wimbledon. Factoring out her holds of serve, that's three consecutive service breaks earned. Looks like she'd do just fine without a GOAT serve.

She would do just fine yeah, and that's not worth a GS.

Gdsimmons
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:34 AM
I don't speak for all Serena fans, but these types of debates, where the other side has no case, are fun.

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt7/no_eight/gifs/bandagedDean.gif

xan
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:35 AM
The main point of this thread - NOT started by a Maria fan - stands. Posts comparing Maria-Serena achievements, when one is 23 and the other is 28, are pretty pointless.

We won't know whether the careers are comparable until both have retired. All the rest is boasting....

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 11th, 2010, 03:02 AM
epic thread :rolls: just reading it makes me cry

Vikapower
Jul 11th, 2010, 05:00 AM
And Vikapower, please don't embarrass yourself anymore by bringing Serena's technique into this. First of all, between Maria and Serena, who's the one who can't seem to avoid double faulting at least once per service game? With a higher unforced error count, and her feet planted firmly on the ground, her technique pales in comparison to Rena. Believe it or not, serve IS a part of Serena's technique, and she has proven that she not only has power, but an astounding ability to target lines from seemingly impossible angles. And then we have Serena's speed and willingness to go after every ball. Maria just cannot compare in any way shape or form.
Helloooooo shoulder injury thus DFaulting issues. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry you're promoting Serena's technic to the younger kids otherwise WTA will be in a hell of a trouble. All girls don't have Serena's will to keep the ball in with such accuracy and power despite beeing challenged. Watch Arantxa Rus, Sara Errani... technically challenged and yet they're not having Serena's success so that shows how extraordinary Serena is isn't that a compliment ? :shrug:

Anyways all these wasted phrases to say that 2008 Sharapova would very easily destroy Serena anytime, anywhere, here's the truth. Serena and Maria are very close in level at their best and Serena just has that serve to always establish authority but Maria's ground game speaks greatness. Let's image it for you Maria>>>>>>>>>>Serena without serve and we all saw that in Wimbledon where Serena was very close from losing the first set without her serve.

:haha: :rolls: So now this turned into a : Serena can't play, Serena's bad technique..thing?! Really?!
Anybody seen Maria's forehand? There's a reason why Maria has had so many struggles with shoulder injuries.

But I guess vikapower waa just getting too desperate. :lol: It's cool.
Asked TF's favourite Maria basher and the answer is you have to know which FH you're speaking about because Maria's classic FH is easy top 10-5. :rolleyes: Get your facts right, that's the 5th law of the International Dissing Association when bashing someone or you pay the price of discredit on yourself.

If Serena didnt have her serve she probably would have never won a GS. She is sooo not impressive from the ground, especially lately.
You know people don't pay attention to what a player does wrong when they're having success but how funny will it be when Serena will start struggling by next year to go on. :lol:

Serenita
Jul 11th, 2010, 05:33 AM
Helloooooo shoulder injury thus DFaulting issues. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry you're promoting Serena's technic to the younger kids otherwise WTA will be in a hell of a trouble. All girls don't have Serena's will to keep the ball in with such accuracy and power despite beeing challenged. Watch Arantxa Rus, Sara Errani... technically challenged and yet they're not having Serena's success so that shows how extraordinary Serena is isn't that a compliment ? :shrug:

Anyways all these wasted phrases to say that 2008 Sharapova would very easily destroy Serena anytime, anywhere, here's the truth. Serena and Maria are very close in level at their best and Serena just has that serve to always establish authority but Maria's ground game speaks greatness. Let's image it for you Maria>>>>>>>>>>Serena without serve and we all saw that in Wimbledon where Serena was very close from losing the first set without her serve.


Asked TF's favourite Maria basher and the answer is you have to know which FH you're speaking about because Maria's classic FH is easy top 10-5. :rolleyes: Get your facts right, that's the 5th law of the International Dissing Association when bashing someone or you pay the price of discredit on yourself.


You know people don't pay attention to what a player does wrong when they're having success but how funny will it be when Serena will start struggling by next year to go on. :lol:


http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj58/red_apple_green/ztryfirstsuccess.gif

Loungy
Jul 11th, 2010, 05:41 AM
I've read ALL your messages since Jan 29th, 2007, 06:59 AM
:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

Now that samsam is gone, I hope this becomes the new "Dementieva past her peak" thread.

May Maria-Serena thing/debate live long past both players retire. :bowdown:

Uranium
Jul 11th, 2010, 05:42 AM
DAMN
http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=622599 (http://www.gifsoup.com/view/622599/ooohhh.html) GIFSoup (http://www.gifsoup.com/)

The Best Fucking gif ever. New York:hearts:

Baselinebasher
Jul 11th, 2010, 05:44 AM
Hitting the ball as hard as you can isn't "great ground game". That goes for both Williams and Sharapova. What's next? Azarenka, Rezai or Na li having a "great ground game" too?

If you want to see top level ground game, look no further than Dementieva, Hingis or pre-retirement Henin.

le bon vivant
Jul 11th, 2010, 07:41 AM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj58/red_apple_green/ztryfirstsuccess.gif:haha:!!!

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:39 AM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj58/red_apple_green/ztryfirstsuccess.gif


:rolls:

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:24 AM
Hitting the ball as hard as you can isn't "great ground game". That goes for both Williams and Sharapova. What's next? Azarenka, Rezai or Na li having a "great ground game" too?

If you want to see top level ground game, look no further than Dementieva, Hingis or pre-retirement Henin.

Call me the day these 3 will win a Major. I would even add Dementieva.

madmax
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:25 AM
Hitting the ball as hard as you can isn't "great ground game". That goes for both Williams and Sharapova. What's next? Azarenka, Rezai or Na li having a "great ground game" too?

If you want to see top level ground game, look no further than Dementieva, Hingis or pre-retirement Henin.

Sharapova doesn't just hit the ball "as hard as she can". Her height and technique allow to create perfect angles and boss her opponents on the court - she doesn't have the luxury of being as athletic as WS are, so her ground game is the main weapon and salvation.

acetoace
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:51 AM
Helloooooo shoulder injury thus DFaulting issues. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry you're promoting Serena's technic to the younger kids otherwise WTA will be in a hell of a trouble. All girls don't have Serena's will to keep the ball in with such accuracy and power despite beeing challenged. Watch Arantxa Rus, Sara Errani... technically challenged and yet they're not having Serena's success so that shows how extraordinary Serena is isn't that a compliment ? :shrug:

Anyways all these wasted phrases to say that 2008 Sharapova would very easily destroy Serena anytime, anywhere, here's the truth. Serena and Maria are very close in level at their best and Serena just has that serve to always establish authority but Maria's ground game speaks greatness. Let's image it for you Maria>>>>>>>>>>Serena without serve and we all saw that in Wimbledon where Serena was very close from losing the first set without her serve.


Asked TF's favourite Maria basher and the answer is you have to know which FH you're speaking about because Maria's classic FH is easy top 10-5. :rolleyes: Get your facts right, that's the 5th law of the International Dissing Association when bashing someone or you pay the price of discredit on yourself.


You know people don't pay attention to what a player does wrong when they're having success but how funny will it be when Serena will start struggling by next year to go on. :lol:


HONORABLE MEMBERS of the board, pls forgive the lenght of this response. Going this much into detail is about the only way to educate the joker in Vikapower.


Wow Vikapower....your problem is more than unfortunate; it is near a calamity. Geez, why is it that folks like u can't comprehend stuff or are too impervious to learning? You certainly are an example of a DESPERADO who is working hard on a Tennis Message Board to pump a player that has failed in her quest to win like SERENA WILLIAMS on the tennis court. You continue to harp that just because pova pushed Serena at wimbledon, then pova is at the same level with Serena game wise. FYI, Li Na pushed Serena in Australia as well as 2wks ago at Wimby, Vika did too in Australia;.... hell, Henin did as well (and we know Henin is way better than Sharapova). Same Li Na and Henin just wooped on Maria in the last 8wks. Can u see how stupid and asinine your point is?

Sharapova 2008 form with Serena in the draw? Keep believing whatever if it makes u feel better. Fact is, pova probably would not have won 08 AO had she met Serena along the way. Ascribe credit to pova all u want; fact remains someone else did the job of seeing Serena out; not pova. Going by their antecedents in slams, chances are pova would have lost to Serena yet again. Furthermore, didn't Serena woop on Maria in Charleston shortly after AO 08? Serena was in that draw in 2008 where no one else was able to do the job for pova and what happened? Get the point now?

How about the serve? So, u now blame Serena for having a tennis skill and a potent weapon? I bet u wish pova has it, huh? Point is, skill for skill, Serena>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Maria and a serve that pova don't have. Face it, you are just jealous Sharapova don't have what Serena has and we can see how it's eating your hating azz up. There is a reason why Sharapova is stuck at 3 slams despite almost 7yrs on the tour if not already and Serena continues to win slams on a consistent basis. You see, talent cannot be "learned" at tennis academy. It is endowed.....too bad Maria is not that endowed. Still, take consolation and be thankful that Maria can "scream" like her life depended on it. That is some talent I think!! She always brings it and we Serena fans don't mind.

Ok, I will try and break it down for you. Serena is in the GOAT discussion due to what she has proved on the tennis court over the years. Maria is only a 3 slam case. There are many 3 slam cases we can juxtapose Maria with. I will not bother to mention names. So, 3 slams ain't nothing special, get it? Currently there are 2 others that are accomplished than her. Venus & Henin stands at 7. Venus wooped on Maria in straights twice (when maria was at her best and a lot younger) at a slam u fools used to tout as Maria's best surface. Can we ask what made u change that tune now? Henin just came back after 2yrs to woop Maria's flat behind. Maria has been back since before RG 2009. What has she to show for it?....NADA!!! Oh, I remember, she pushed Serena at 2010 Wimby. Ok, since that is a sublime achievment, I guess we should request WTA to present a "Push Serena Trophy" to Sharapova, right?:rolleyes:

In the main, you have another who has won 5 of the last 8 slams. Again, when Serena returned to the tour post surgery, Serena was in a slam final, a YEC final and won a slam all within approximately 10months of returning to competition. Look, there are GREATNESS and there is "greatness". The former (which applies to Serena) has been proven over the years on the tennis court time and time again to the point it leaves no doubt on any sensible tennis fan's mind i.e. Tennis Writers, tennis greats like BJK, Navratilova to mention a few, tennis commentators, players both current and retired etc. Reason why you see folks who count in the scheme of things beginnig to debate whether or not Serena is actually the greatest ever. It is already agreed she is arguably the best player ever PERIOD. NOTE that the status didn't come because of 2 match wins over great players; it spans yrs of proven victories ON THE TENNIS COURT......Serena didn't EARN her GREATNESS debate on a TENNIS MESSAGE BOARD as you currently are attempting make for pova.

Right now, you constitute an embarrasment both to the player u represent as well as to her fan base. Your desperation to ascribe "GREATNESS" to Sharapova on a tennis message board further proves the height of your frustration. Ok, I will be sympathetic with you. Ostensibly, u don't like the fact that your player's stock has lost value over time and u running out of time/ideas on how to spin the loses......hence, your current attempt at pumping the plunging stock on a message board hoping that seasoned investors (sane and objective tennis fans) will not see through your idiocy. Common, u can't be that stupid or are you?

Here are the hard facts:
1. Maria has won 2 of the last 8 matches between them. Those 2 victories were in 2004 when Serena just came back and was still "working" on her form. Dissappointing as those were, we Serena fans still gave it to pova; she won eventhough it was clear to every one that those victories were due to an alignment of the stars at that point in time. Fast forward to AO 2005 when pova was still at the height if her very best and Serena was till not at her best, still, pova FAILED to win that slam. Remember, pova had no injuries whatsoever at the time. That was a slam pova was favord to win yet, she failed epicly. Do u really think Serena didn't notice that and be like...."ummmm, wow, I won even playing at less that my B+?"

Now, put yourself in Serena's shoes for a moment. You realize that due to 2 loses to a nobody during the weakest period of your career, the media and moronic tennis fans like Vikapower immediately proclaims that same "nobody" as better than you and just literarily proceeded to place that nobody on a pedestal she didn't EARN over time on the tennis court, saying inter alia "Maria is the best", Serena is done, is old, is fat, should retire blah,blah,blah. If u were Serena, won't you be like, WTF??????? Translation: Serena's name literarily gave life and status to pova not because pova earned it on the tennis court over time as Serena did, but because desperation of fools like you and some in the media to proclaim anything that can win 2 matches off of a Williams as a GREAT PLAYER and the best since slice bread. Well, time proved u wrong didn't it?

Knowing your antecedents, you most likely will not get my point since hate and bias has blinded u beyound reason. So, have u asked yourself why Serena always bring it to pova? Answer: Serena brings it not because she thinks pova is better than her; but because she promised herself never again to give the media and moronic tennis fans like vikapower the opportunity to claim pova as better than her. Serena has succeeded in that regard. More like "bitch, count yourself lucky indeed to have done what you did in 2004; going forward, trust me, I will not be charitable to you till I retire. I will woop on you come rain, come sun on any surface till there is no iota of doubt left in anybody's mind that you were, indeed, very lucky in 2004 and that those wins of 2004 were "FLUKE" as regards me" end of story.

Have you asked yourself why the media and fools like you don't proclaim Dementieva or other players Serena loses to as the "best" like ya'll did in 2004 for pova? Ummm.....wonder why!!:rolleyes:

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:54 AM
Sharapova doesn't just hit the ball "as hard as she can". Her height and technique allow to create perfect angles and boss her opponents on the court - she doesn't have the luxury of being as athletic as WS are, so her ground game is the main weapon and salvation.

Don't bother he is stupid how can a Henin fan not see that Sharapova is really good from baseline, I mean you need more than hitting as hard as you can to beat a player like Henin and even more to crush her.
How many times Henin said that against Sharapova you have to run to win Sharapova just can deal with angles and power the way noone can especially with this BH:hearts:

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:18 PM
Sharapova 2008 form with Serena in the draw? Keep believing whatever if it makes u feel better. Fact is, pova probably would not have won 08 AO had she met Serena along the way. Ascribe credit to pova all u want; fact remains someone else did the job of seeing Serena out; not pova. Going by their antecedents in slams, chances are pova would have lost to Serena yet again. Furthermore, didn't Serena woop on Maria in Charleston shortly after AO 08? Serena was in that draw in 2008 where no one else was able to do the job for pova and what happened? Get the point now

Apparently you're the one who believe what you want. So even when Maria won a Major with Serena in the draw you still have sth to say about this. Shut the fuck up Serena was in the draw all she has to do to meet Maria was to defeat JJ she wasn't even able to take 8 games to a pathetic pusher but sure she would have rolled over Maria in her peak form give me a break. And Serena didn't whoop Maria at Charleston Sharapova had her chances to beat Serena in straights sth she would have done at OZ but too bad Serena was in a bad day against JJ.
You want us to believe you but you're coming with all this BS now you're talking about Wimbledon final in 2004 you the deluded one the fact is Sharapova already beat Serena to win a Major in straights in one of Serena's best surfaces she sure can do it again I can't believe that 2 years after Maria's win you still pissed off I mean Serena won OZ in 2009 and 2010 but still it's not enough look Serena won't be able to win every single Major just like she couldn't defend her title in 2008 we will never know if Serena could have beat Maria because she didn't face her what we DO know is that Maria is the winner of OZ 2008 and if saying that Serena would have beat Maria makes you feel better, just continue:rolleyes:.

TSequoia01
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:27 PM
Apparently you're the one who believe what you want. So even when Maria won a Major with Serena in the draw you still have sth to say about this. Shut the fuck up Serena was in the draw all she has to do to meet Maria was to defeat JJ she wasn't even able to take 8 games to a pathetic pusher but sure she would have rolled over Maria in her peak form give me a break. And Serena didn't whoop Maria at Charleston Sharapova had her chances to beat Serena in straights sth she would have done at OZ but too bad Serena was in a bad day against JJ.
You want us to believe you but you're coming with all this BS now you're talking about Wimbledon final in 2004 you the deluded one the fact is Sharapova already beat Serena to win a Major in straights in one of Serena's best surfaces she sure can do it again I can't believe that 2 years after Maria's win you still pissed off I mean Serena won OZ in 2009 and 2010 but still it's not enough look Serena won't be able to win every single Major just like she couldn't defend her title in 2008 we will never know if Serena could have beat Maria because she didn't face her what we DO know like you said is that Maria is the winner of OZ 2008 and if saying that Serena would have beat Maria makes you feel better, just continue:rolleyes:.

Maria won the slam, all credit to her because it counts. But everyone knew Serena was on the comeback trail after having knee surgery. Maria's victory at the YEC, came when Serena could not lift her arm above shoulder height. True not Maria's fault, but facts are facts.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:34 PM
Maria won the slam, all credit to her because it counts. But everyone knew Serena was on the comeback trail after having knee surgery. Maria's victory at the YEC, came when Serena could not lift her arm above shoulder height. True not Maria's fault, but facts are facts.

But Serena was still in the final defeating Capriati and Mauresmo on her way and the only thing Serena said is that she put a lot of pressure on herself I don't care about what you guys are saying. And everyone knew Sharapova couldn't serve in OZ final 2007.

TSequoia01
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:47 PM
But Serena was still in the final defeating Capriati and Mauresmo on her way and the only thing Serena said is that she put a lot of pressure on herself I don't care about what you guys are saying. And everyone knew Sharapova couldn't serve in OZ final 2007.
What Maria has on her side is age, only 23. She has plenty of time of forge a truly great legacy. It all depends on how long the up and comers allow the old guard to hang around. Venus, Serena, and Justine sent them packing. The new young guard must do the same.

Baselinebasher
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:48 PM
Don't bother he is stupid how can a Henin fan not see that Sharapova is really good from baseline, I mean you need more than hitting as hard as you can to beat a player like Henin and even more to crush her.
How many times Henin said that against Sharapova you have to run to win Sharapova just can deal with angles and power the way noone can especially with this BH:hearts:

Sharapova's movement is dreadful and her forehand is mediocre. Now open your biased eyes and actually watch her matches. She blows people off court, mainly with her backhand and plays a high winner/high UE game. She HAS to control the rally because she can't turn defense into offense, since she has no defense to speak of. She has no variety and usually fails at drop shots and net play. So every match she tries to hit super hard and super deep and be as aggressive as possible. Yes, she does make her opponents run, but as soon as the opponent defends against her barrage and starts moving her around, she looks laughable. Don't even bring up "crushing Henin" bit. We all know that a ball basher who catches fire is almost unbeatable. But when her game is off, she has no plan B, which leads to embarrassing losses to players well below her rank.

Baselinebasher
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:50 PM
Call me the day these 3 will win a Major. I would even add Dementieva.

In women's tennis, having mental strength (i.e not being a choker) is more important than being a better player. Dementieva is miles ahead in groundstrokes and all-court game compared to Sharapova, but she failed to win a GS because she's a headcase.

madmax
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:56 PM
Sharapova's movement is dreadful and her forehand is mediocre. Now open your biased eyes and actually watch her matches. She blows people off court, mainly with her backhand and plays a high winner/high UE game. She HAS to control the rally because she can't turn defense into offense, since she has no defense to speak of. She has no variety and usually fails at drop shots and net play. So every match she tries to hit super hard and super deep and be as aggressive as possible. Yes, she does make her opponents run, but as soon as the opponent defends against her barrage and starts moving her around, she looks laughable. Don't even bring up "crushing Henin" bit. We all know that a ball basher who catches fire is almost unbeatable. But when her game is off, she has no plan B, which leads to embarrassing losses to players well below her rank.

there are plenty of ballbashers, who only hit hard and harder these days - Rezai, Kvitova just to name a few. However they are still far from sniffing 3 Grand slams and 22 career titles - wanna know why? Coz they are NOT that good.:wavey: I suggest you to open your eyes and realize, that Maria is the best ine the game creating angles and making impossible shots regular - that's her bread and butter game. And you are correct - she isn't moving well, but it still doesn't matter, as her shotmaking is too tough to handle for 99 % of the tour. Keep on clowning, will ya:lol:

Baselinebasher
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:07 PM
there are plenty of ballbashers, who only hit hard and harder these days - Rezai, Kvitova just to name a few. However they are still far from sniffing 3 Grand slams and 22 career titles - wanna know why? Coz they are NOT that good.:wavey: I suggest you to open your eyes and realize, that Maria is the best ine the game creating angles and making impossible shots regular - that's her bread and butter game. And you are correct - she isn't moving well, but it still doesn't matter, as her shotmaking is too tough to handle for 99 % of the tour. Keep on clowning, will ya:lol:

Read the above post. I actually give credit when it's due. Sharapova's mental strength is second only to Serena's. That's why she is a multi slam winner despite plethora of weaknesses in her game when Azarenka/Na Li/Rezai etc are not.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:09 PM
In women's tennis, having mental strength (i.e not being a choker) is more important than being a better player. Dementieva is miles ahead in groundstrokes and all-court game compared to Sharapova, but she failed to win a GS because she's a headcase.

Sharapova has better groundstrokes than Dementieva she hits harder and is way more precise especially with her BH, her FH isn't more solid but she can find better angles, please Dementieva can't even hit BHDTL to save her life she can't even serve properly don't you dare comparing Maria and Dementieva.
The only thing I agree is the defense thing Maria is not a great mover but she is really underrated she can move well especially on HC(OZ 2008) but not really well I agree but again it doesn't really matter very few players can make her move, usually they have to run.

madmax
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:17 PM
Read the above post. I actually give credit when it's due. Sharapova's mental strength is second only to Serena's. That's why she is a multi slam winner despite plethora of weaknesses in her game when Azarenka/Na Li/Rezai etc are not.

mental strenght can only take you so far...if you believe that it is thanks to mental strenght why Maria has won all those slams, then you really need to stop watching tennis altogether. I'm pretty sure that Michelle larcher De Brito has plenty of self-confidence - why she isn't rocking the tour then?:lol:

Baselinebasher
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:20 PM
Sharapova has better groundstrokes than Dementieva she hits harder and is way more precise especially with her BH, her FH isn't more solid but she can find better angles, please Dementieva can't even hit BHDTL to save her life she can't even serve properly don't you dare comparing Maria and Dementieva.
The only thing I agree is the defense thing Maria is not a great mover but she is really underrated she can move well especially on HC(OZ 2008) but not really well I agree but again it doesn't really matter very few players can make her move, usually they have to run.

Like I said before, we can agree to disagree. For one, Dementieva FH >>>> Sharapova FH. BH is arguable. Elena's shot is safer, but produces less winners. I always prefer consistency, so I prefer Elena's BH to be honest. Yes, Dementieva's serve sucks, but we're talking about strictly groundgame here. Sharapova's is much weaker, even though she hits harder and occasionally produces a god-like performance when she's on fire and paints the lines with every shot.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:22 PM
Like I said before, we can agree to disagree. For one, Dementieva FH >>>> Sharapova FH. BH is arguable. Elena's shot is safer, but produces less winners. I always prefer consistency, so I prefer Elena's BH to be honest. Yes, Dementieva's serve sucks, but we're talking about strictly groundgame here. Sharapova's is much weaker, even though she hits harder and occasionally produces a god-like performance when she's on fire and paints the lines with every shot.

Did you just say that Sharapova's BH is arguable with Dementieva's one :lol::lol::lol:

Baselinebasher
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:24 PM
mental strenght can only take you so far...if you believe that it is thanks to mental strenght why Maria has won all those slams, then you really need to stop watching tennis altogether. I'm pretty sure that Michelle larcher De Brito has plenty of self-confidence - why she isn't rocking the tour then?:lol:

I just googled De Brito and it seems like she's 17 years old. You can't be serious if you want to use her as an argument. Not all players are early bloomers. Who knows, if she's really confident, maybe she can do some damage in the future.

Anyway, I don't think Sharapova's game sucks. To even be in top 20, you have to be really good. All I am saying is there is at least half a dozen ball bashers in top 20 right now, who will never succeed because they lack the fortitude - unlike Maria, who might win another slam in the future.

madmax
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:25 PM
Like I said before, we can agree to disagree. For one, Dementieva FH >>>> Sharapova FH. BH is arguable. Elena's shot is safer, but produces less winners. I always prefer consistency, so I prefer Elena's BH to be honest. Yes, Dementieva's serve sucks, but we're talking about strictly groundgame here. Sharapova's is much weaker, even though she hits harder and occasionally produces a god-like performance when she's on fire and paints the lines with every shot.

delusional:wavey:And Dementieva's FH isn't much better than Sharapova's - it's not like Maria doesn't hit winners from that side...good to know I'm dealing with a hater here - where is the ignore list button anyone?

Baselinebasher
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:29 PM
delusional:wavey:And Dementieva's FH isn't much better than Sharapova's - it's not like Maria doesn't hit winners from that side...good to know I'm dealing with a hater here - where is the ignore list button anyone?

Not a hater at all, just don't appreciate her style and dislike it when her fans try to make her look better than she is. If she were truly talented, she wouldn't just catch lightning in a bottle for 2 weeks every couple of years and win more than 3 slams. :wavey:

mykarma
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:31 PM
Helloooooo shoulder injury thus DFaulting issues. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry you're promoting Serena's technic to the younger kids otherwise WTA will be in a hell of a trouble. All girls don't have Serena's will to keep the ball in with such accuracy and power despite beeing challenged. Watch Arantxa Rus, Sara Errani... technically challenged and yet they're not having Serena's success so that shows how extraordinary Serena is isn't that a compliment ? :shrug:

Anyways all these wasted phrases to say that 2008 Sharapova would very easily destroy Serena anytime, anywhere, here's the truth. Serena and Maria are very close in level at their best and Serena just has that serve to always establish authority but Maria's ground game speaks greatness. Let's image it for you Maria>>>>>>>>>>Serena without serve and we all saw that in Wimbledon where Serena was very close from losing the first set without her serve.


Asked TF's favourite Maria basher and the answer is you have to know which FH you're speaking about because Maria's classic FH is easy top 10-5. :rolleyes: Get your facts right, that's the 5th law of the International Dissing Association when bashing someone or you pay the price of discredit on yourself.


You know people don't pay attention to what a player does wrong when they're having success but how funny will it be when Serena will start struggling by next year to go on. :lol:
Please, please, please, tell me that you're a troll and that you don't honestly believe the nonsense you continue to post. Your arguments make me want to cry.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:33 PM
Not a hater at all, just don't appreciate her style and dislike it when her fans try to make her look better than she is. If she were truly talented, she wouldn't just catch lightning in a bottle for 2 weeks every couple of years and win more than 3 slams. :wavey:

You do realize that she is only 23.

bandabou
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:34 PM
:haha: :rolls: No serve, only hits hard off the ground, ...:haha: :rolls:

What IS it with people these days? 13 majors..take it to the bank, haters!! :nerner:

Olórin
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:38 PM
This thread is really sad.
There are posts and posters that even make Madmax look reasonable and objective.

mykarma
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:58 PM
You do realize that she is only 23.
Youth is an asset not a detriment in women's tennis. Maria has been on the tour since she was 17 years old so she's only 23 nonsense holds no water. Her being only 23 is a good thing. I wish Serena was only 23 y/o.

acetoace
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:01 PM
Not a hater at all, just don't appreciate her style and dislike it when her fans try to make her look better than she is. If she were truly talented, she wouldn't just catch lightning in a bottle for 2 weeks every couple of years and win more than 3 slams. :wavey:

Thank you for keeping it real! Your take is what they do not like to hear or listen to. Sharapova is a good player and credit to her for coming this far. But to start comparing her to Serena is just.......???????WOW.

How many times has JJ pushed Serena? How many times did Carpriati, Davenport, Hingis, Kim and Justin did the same? Does that mean they were better or are equal to Serena in GREATNESS?

When u caught through the cheese, it all boils down to one thing.....DESPERATION!!!

acetoace
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:12 PM
You do realize that she is only 23.


Like 23 is a measure of guarantee, right? Tell that to Tracy Austin. Hingis won more that 3 at 23 and where is she today? Sharapova may or may not win more slams; whichever way it goes, just stop touting this age thing as if it guarantees anything.

If age were the barometer for winning slams, u will think at pova's age she would be holding at least 5 by now, right?

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:13 PM
Thank you for keeping it real! Your take is what they do not like to hear or listen to. Sharapova is a good player and credit to her for coming this far. But to start comparing her to Serena is just.......???????WOW.

How many times has JJ pushed Serena? How many times did Carpriati, Davenport, Hingis, Kim and Justin did the same? Does that mean they were better or are equal to Serena in GREATNESS?

When u caught through the cheese, it all boils down to one thing.....DESPERATION!!!

Nonne was comparing them just read before posting.

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:30 PM
This thread is really sad.
There are posts and posters that even make Madmax look reasonable and objective.

IMPOSSIBLE. :eek:

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 03:19 PM
Like 23 is a measure of guarantee, right? Tell that to Tracy Austin. Hingis won more that 3 at 23 and where is she today? Sharapova may or may not win more slams; whichever way it goes, just stop touting this age thing as if it guarantees anything.

If age were the barometer for winning slams, u will think at pova's age she would be holding at least 5 by now, right?

Sorry but with Maria's case it is her rivals are average 5 years older that's sth important I'm not saying that for sure it would help Maria but it should.

Matt01
Jul 11th, 2010, 07:31 PM
In women's tennis, having mental strength (i.e not being a choker) is more important than being a better player. Dementieva is miles ahead in groundstrokes and all-court game compared to Sharapova, but she failed to win a GS because she's a headcase.


:happy:

Vikapower
Jul 11th, 2010, 08:12 PM
You certainly are an example of a DESPERADO who is working hard on a Tennis Message Board to pump a player that has failed in her quest to win like SERENA WILLIAMS on the tennis court.
Will this discussion ever end on Maria's achievement ? :help: Maria ONCE AGAIN has accomplished as good as she could have at age 23 and just at that age she has done better than her countrywomen, girls of her generation or older players like Kim Clijters at same age. Do you even understand that simple statement ? :help: That's where her greatness comes from at the moment until when she will put an end to her career to have an overall jugement on what she has done.

You continue to harp that just because pova pushed Serena at wimbledon, then pova is at the same level with Serena game wise.
Do you even try to understand what is written ? I didn't say that to show that Maria has same level as Serena. :help: I used that argument to say that Serena just can not do much when not having her serve because she inevitably gets pushed around and neutralized off the ground with her technical lacknesses.

Maria hits hard, accurately, angled, she has great anticipation, explosivity and sens on return of serve, can hit a winner from anywhere on a court, create winners from any situations of play which people call shotmaking, she can nowadays dropshot when she's got you on the back foot and is looking more towards the net to volley the ball but Serena has the most important shot : the serve. It permits her to mask her ground game lacknesses lately : very little balance, little control, very little movement... the list is long to go on. Ok, Maria's defensive skills sucks but for a 6'2" girl that's perfectly normal.

My arguments are Maria's technic>>>Serena's technic, Maria's ground game>>>Serena's ground game, Serena ground game = overrated you can argue that if you want but from my regard that's what I think.

Sharapova 2008 form with Serena in the draw? Keep believing whatever if it makes u feel better. Fact is, pova probably would not have won 08 AO had she met Serena along the way. Ascribe credit to pova all u want; fact remains someone else did the job of seeing Serena out; not pova. Going by their antecedents in slams, chances are pova would have lost to Serena yet again.
Hey, woulda, coulda, problably, maybe... Look Maria won AO 2008 and she was by miles away the better player of the tourney, heads and shoulder over everyone and Serena would have got crushed playing Maria in this type of form it's just simple as that.

When you Serena fans say that Serena's serve in Wim 2010 form is unbeatable well whichever player you would have put to face her she would have certainly beat them and you would have laughed at me if I came with Justine or anyone else trying to demonstrate by A+B that they would have beaten Serena so the woulda, coulda... and probabilities... Maria 2008>>>>>>>>>>Serena anytime, anywhere, accept the truth.

And don't come with your crappy "seeing their antecedents" stats of which Maria has been dominated in 3 out of 4 GS where they were opposed to one another. If you think that stats are a guaranty before the match has even been played then you're sucked kid. :rolleyes: Williams' fans really need to stop beeing so sure of themselves it's annoying. :rolleyes:

acetoace
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:09 PM
Will this discussion ever end on Maria's achievement ? :help: Maria ONCE AGAIN has accomplished as good as she could have at age 23 and just at that age she has done better than her countrywomen, girls of her generation or older players like Kim Clijters at same age. Do you even understand that simple statement ? :help: That's where her greatness comes from at the moment until when she will put an end to her career to have an overall jugement on what she has done.


Do you even try to understand what is written ? I didn't say that to show that Maria has same level as Serena. :help: I used that argument to say that Serena just can not do much when not having her serve because she inevitably gets pushed around and neutralized off the ground with her technical lacknesses.

Maria hits hard, accurately, angled, she has great anticipation, explosivity and sens on return of serve, can hit a winner from anywhere on a court, create winners from any situations of play which people call shotmaking, she can nowadays dropshot when she's got you on the back foot and is looking more towards the net to volley the ball but Serena has the most important shot : the serve. It permits her to mask her ground game lacknesses lately : very little balance, little control, very little movement... the list is long to go on. Ok, Maria's defensive skills sucks but for a 6'2" girl that's perfectly normal.

My arguments are Maria's technic>>>Serena's technic, Maria's ground game>>>Serena's ground game, Serena ground game = overrated you can argue that if you want but from my regard that's what I think.

Hey, woulda, coulda, problably, maybe... Look Maria won AO 2008 and she was by miles away the better player of the tourney, heads and shoulder over everyone and Serena would have got crushed playing Maria in this type of form it's just simple as that.

When you Serena fans say that Serena's serve in Wim 2010 form is unbeatable well whichever player you would have put to face her she would have certainly beat them and you would have laughed at me if I came with Justine or anyone else trying to demonstrate by A+B that they would have beaten Serena so the woulda, coulda... and probabilities... Maria 2008>>>>>>>>>>Serena anytime, anywhere, accept the truth.

And don't come with your crappy "seeing their antecedents" stats of which Maria has been dominated in 3 out of 4 GS where they were opposed to one another. If you think that stats are a guaranty before the match has even been played then you're sucked kid. :rolleyes: Williams' fans really need to stop beeing so sure of themselves it's annoying. :rolleyes:


True to form,you came back with your ignorant diatribe. Who touted the IF,IF,IF, COULDA, WOULDA, SHOULDA stuff? Your dumb ass started that with your rants about "Serena's serve". If Serena did't have this, if Serena didn't have that BS.

If the statements I just bolded in your crass response are true, have you asked yourself what that says about pova's game? I mean, if despite those assumed qualities (as u believe in your crazy head) pova still loses on a consistent basis to Serena, I think if I were u and pova, I will humbly accept the obvious that Serena is the better one and wish myself luck everytime I get to play her. Yes, it takes more than skill to defeat Serena in a GS. A little dose of luck is also required.

Wow, U now blaming Williams fans for having supreme confidence in their player (in this case Serena)? Exactly one of the points I've been arguing all along and I'm surprised you just now got the memo. Unlike pova fans, Serena fans' supreme confidence in their player came about from what our player has proven to us on the tennis court over time; not from some fans wishful thinking despite failed expectations as in the case of Sharapova.

Lesson for you.....learn to open your eyes and teach yourself to adapt to realities that faces u as time moves on. Your epic fail is due to fans like u placing blind confidence in pova in 2004 just because of 2 lucky wins that propelled her literarily from obscurity to lime light. Rush to judgement was your undoing as time has proven to u. Just saying!!:haha:

1jackson2001
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:17 PM
If Serena didnt have her serve she probably would have never won a GS. She is sooo not impressive from the ground, especially lately.
So what if Serena has her serve as a weapon? Fyi, serve is a tennis shot and it's legit. Why don't we start taking away all the players' weapons from them and see how they fare? Blame the other women who suck on serve, not Serena for doing something well.

Oh and btw, even if you gave Serena a mediocre serve, she would not be slamless as you claim. In her 2002-2003 days she had consistently massive groundies, sheer athleticism, speed, and determination. Those, couple with just a "mediocre serve" would have still found her at least a few slams. And that's IF you take away her serving (which is dumb..it's like telling a player she can't hit forehands and can only hit backhands).

We know you dislike Serena, but noone told you to watch her when she's playing. Your posts reek of jealousy.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Lesson for you.....learn to open your eyes and teach yourself to adapt to realities that faces u as time moves on. Your epic fail is due to fans like u placing blinded confidence in pova in 2004 just because of 2 lucky wins that propelled her literarily from obscurity to lime light. Rush to judgement was your undoing as time has proven to u. Just saying!!:haha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScXwgNKLyaw

le bon vivant
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:34 PM
If Serena didnt have her serve she probably would have never won a GS. She is sooo not impressive from the ground, especially lately.OMG :rolls: I know you saw her vs Demented at the YEC last year. And you come up with this shit :lol:
The masses continue to propagate this lie
She wins 1 tournament with her serve on and her ground game off, and we revise history. mmkay

madmax
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScXwgNKLyaw

I know right...:lol:And those WS fans have a nerve to call this beatdown a "lucky" win? There's no point in arguing with these morons really...

Monzanator
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:47 PM
Nothing new in this thread, just bringing up the old goofs to justify the love/hate relations :shrug: I wonder why some people still bother so much? After all, there hasn't been a major twist in Serena/Maria thing in like four years... :rolleyes:

le bon vivant
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:48 PM
I know right...:lol:And those WS fans have a nerve to call this beatdown a "lucky" win? There's no point in arguing with these morons really...So how come she hasnt been even close to replicating this type of win even once over the past 6 years?
Yet she herself has been blitzed in stunning fashion on multiple occassions by Serena?
You are the fucking moron.

madmax
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:55 PM
So how come she hasnt been even close to replicating this type of win even once over the past 6 years?
Yet she herself has been blitzed in stunning fashion on multiple occassions by Serena?
You are the fucking moron.

yeah, she was soooo lucky on that day...how dare she hit all those line painting winners against the oh great chamion in da Wimby final - shame on her:lol:

le bon vivant
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:56 PM
Yeah. I thought so.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 09:57 PM
So how come she hasnt been even close to replicating this type of win even once over the past 6 years?
Yet she herself has been blitzed in stunning fashion on multiple occassions by Serena?
You are the fucking moron.

You are the moron because first she played Serena once on this surface since 2004 if we don't count this year of course.
Second of all Serena murdered Maria twice OTOH Maria rolled over Serena once so keep the multiples occasions for you idiot you can diminish Maria's win as long as you want but winning a Major against Serena ain't nothing I mean she is the girl who is in the GOAT discussion after all:lol:

spiritedenergy
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:11 PM
Will this discussion ever end on Maria's achievement ? :help: Maria ONCE AGAIN has accomplished as good as she could have at age 23 and just at that age she has done better than her countrywomen, girls of her generation or older players like Kim Clijters at same age. Do you even understand that simple statement ? :help: That's where her greatness comes from at the moment until when she will put an end to her career to have an overall jugement on what she has done.


Do you even try to understand what is written ? I didn't say that to show that Maria has same level as Serena. :help: I used that argument to say that Serena just can not do much when not having her serve because she inevitably gets pushed around and neutralized off the ground with her technical lacknesses.

Maria hits hard, accurately, angled, she has great anticipation, explosivity and sens on return of serve, can hit a winner from anywhere on a court, create winners from any situations of play which people call shotmaking, she can nowadays dropshot when she's got you on the back foot and is looking more towards the net to volley the ball but Serena has the most important shot : the serve. It permits her to mask her ground game lacknesses lately : very little balance, little control, very little movement... the list is long to go on. Ok, Maria's defensive skills sucks but for a 6'2" girl that's perfectly normal.

My arguments are Maria's technic>>>Serena's technic, Maria's ground game>>>Serena's ground game, Serena ground game = overrated you can argue that if you want but from my regard that's what I think.


Hey, woulda, coulda, problably, maybe... Look Maria won AO 2008 and she was by miles away the better player of the tourney, heads and shoulder over everyone and Serena would have got crushed playing Maria in this type of form it's just simple as that.

When you Serena fans say that Serena's serve in Wim 2010 form is unbeatable well whichever player you would have put to face her she would have certainly beat them and you would have laughed at me if I came with Justine or anyone else trying to demonstrate by A+B that they would have beaten Serena so the woulda, coulda... and probabilities... Maria 2008>>>>>>>>>>Serena anytime, anywhere, accept the truth.

And don't come with your crappy "seeing their antecedents" stats of which Maria has been dominated in 3 out of 4 GS where they were opposed to one another. If you think that stats are a guaranty before the match has even been played then you're sucked kid. :rolleyes: Williams' fans really need to stop beeing so sure of themselves it's annoying. :rolleyes:

do you really believe what you're writing??? :tape::help: I'm sorry but Serena is better than Maria in pretty much everything, from serve to movement to groundgame... it's as simple as that:shrug:

acetoace
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:15 PM
Not so fast delusional pova fans. Here are some of the indelible evidence that pova was lucky in 2004. The record as it stands today proves exactly that point. We know u hate to face up to that fact but facts are facts and ain't nothing you can do about it.

Fact # 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9MNjzgwu6k&feature=related

Fact # 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EFCmsc_Vig&feature=related

Fact # 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpp23-5VCzo&feature=related

Fact # 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIbCy_9xHwA&feature=related

Fact # 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAGRUynL-ec

Sucks to be u at this point but ya'll will get it soon enough!!

:bounce::haha:

le bon vivant
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:17 PM
You are the moron because first she played Serena once on this surface since 2004 if we don't count this year of course.
Second of all Serena murdered Maria twice OTOH Maria rolled over Serena once so keep the multiples occasions for you idiot you can diminish Maria's win as long as you want but winning a Major against Serena ain't nothing I mean she is the girl who is in the GOAT discussion after all:lol:What difference does the surface make to this discussion? Maria hasnt been past the 4R at Wimbledon in 4 years, losing to grassgoats Na Li and Jankovic in Tier 3 finals, while Serena has won Wimbledon twice and been to the Finals three times in the past 4 years. Its obvious to everyone but the Povatards such as yourself who the better grass court player is.

And I'm not diminishing Maria's win, but it was definitely a one-time thing that she will never be able to repeat again in her life. Whereas I would bank on Serena murdering her a few more times (on any non-clay surface) before its all said and done.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:19 PM
You are the moron because first she played Serena once on this surface since 2004 if we don't count this year of course.
Second of all Serena murdered Maria twice OTOH Maria rolled over Serena once so keep the multiples occasions for you idiot you can diminish Maria's win as long as you want but winning a Major against Serena ain't nothing I mean she is the girl who is in the GOAT discussion after all:lol:

6>2, 13>3, D cup>A cup

madmax
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:20 PM
What difference does the surface make to this discussion? Maria hasnt been past the 4R at Wimbledon in 4 years, losing to grassgoats Na Li and Jankovic in Tier 3 finals, while Serena has won Wimbledon twice and been to the Finals three times in the past 4 years. Its obvious to everyone but the Povatards such as yourself who the better grass court player is.

And I'm not diminishing Maria's win, but it was definitely a one-time thing that she will never be able to repeat again in her life. Whereas I would bank on Serena murdering her a few more times (on any non-clay surface) before its all said and done.
yeah, just like she supposedly was due to murder Maria this year too, init?:wavey:Instead she lucked out to win a first set and had to hit 19 aces to prevail against mediocre Pova...

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:20 PM
Not so fast delusional pova fans. Here are some of the indelible evidence that pova was lucky in 2004. The record as it stands today proves exactly that point. We know u hate to face up to that fact but facts are facts and ain't nothing you can do about it.

Fact # 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9MNjzgwu6k&feature=related

Fact # 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EFCmsc_Vig&feature=related

Fact # 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpp23-5VCzo&feature=related

Fact # 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIbCy_9xHwA&feature=related

Fact # 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAGRUynL-ec

Sucks to be u at this point but ya'll will get it soon enough!!

:bounce::haha:

You know how to embed a youtube video on a message board in 2010? :help:

acetoace
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:21 PM
So how come she hasnt been even close to replicating this type of win even once over the past 6 years?
Yet she herself has been blitzed in stunning fashion on multiple occassions by Serena?
You are the fucking moron.


Spot on!!!!! We all know how inconvenient truth intimidates delusional folks, don't we?:rolleyes:

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:25 PM
What difference does the surface make to this discussion? Maria hasnt been past the 4R at Wimbledon in 4 years, losing to grassgoats Na Li and Jankovic in Tier 3 finals, while Serena has won Wimbledon twice and been to the Finals three times in the past 4 years. Its obvious to everyone but the Povatards such as yourself who the better grass court player is.

And I'm not diminishing Maria's win, but it was definitely a one-time thing that she will never be able to repeat again in her life. Whereas I would bank on Serena murdering her a few more times (on any non-clay surface) before its all said and done.

Well I wouldn't count on that if Maria's serve is back just like Serena needs her best serve to not lose so badly like in 2004.
You know Sharapova was killed mostly because she couldn't serve stop being stupid and don't think Serena was hitting winners on 110mph serve in OZ final or Miami Maria's first serve avg was really low just like the second one (she was injured you want us to take in count Serena just being back from knee surgery but you don't even pay attention to Maria's issues what is that)
And like I said a thousand times noone is comparing them just saying the fact that Maria raped Serena in the final still piss you off even though like you said Serena beat Maria 5 times since this match and 2 times severely.

shoryuken
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:25 PM
6>2, 13>3, D cup>A cup

:spit: :lol:

le bon vivant
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:28 PM
yeah, just like she supposedly was due to murder Maria this year too, init?:wavey:Instead she lucked out to win a first set and had to hit 19 aces to prevail against mediocre Pova...OK lets face facts here:

Maria has only been to one Grand Slam QF for the past three years
Her movement is horrible, Hantuchova level now, worse than it ever was
Her poor technique on the serve and forehand will forever plague her and cause her to have chronic injuries and inconsistent performances
She hasnt beaten a Top 40 player all year
Shes losing in the first round of Grand Slams
Her game is showing little to no signs of improvement.
Her game has totally declined, and she lost her only real advantage: her mental strength. Venus is mentally out toughing her these days.
Shes finished.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:30 PM
OK lets face facts here:

Maria has only been to one Grand Slam QF for the past three years
Her movement is horrible, Hantuchova level now, worse than it ever was
She hasnt beaten a Top 40 player all year
Shes losing in the first round of Grand Slams
Her game is showing little to no signs of improvement.
Her game has totally declined, and she lost her only real advantage: her mental strength. Venus is mentally out toughing her these days.
Shes finished.

The same Venus who lost 2 and 3 against Pirowoman:lol: you a joke.

young_gunner913
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:31 PM
yeah, just like she supposedly was due to murder Maria this year too, init?:wavey:Instead she lucked out to win a first set and had to hit 19 aces to prevail against mediocre Pova...

:spit: Had too? She wasn't losing to Maria reguardless of how many aces she hit. Keep dreaming pigeon.

Craig.
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:32 PM
madtroll and Mashafaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, stop making Maria fans look bad :bigcry:

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:33 PM
You already bad Craig.:rolleyes:

le bon vivant
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:34 PM
The same Venus who lost 2 and 3 against Pirowoman:lol: you a joke.And that same sorry Venus Williams in that would have owned Maria Sharapova on grass, like she always has. Thats the joke, Pironkova is owning Venus, yet Venus is owning Maria :lol:

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:34 PM
madtroll and Mashafaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, stop making Maria fans look bad :bigcry:

yeah I feel very bad for you now :sad::kiss:

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:34 PM
And that same sorry Venus Williams in that would have owned Maria Sharapova on grass, like she always has. Thats the joke, Pironkova is owning Venus, yet Venus is owning Maria :lol:

PREACH :worship:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:36 PM
madtroll and Mashafaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, stop making Maria fans look bad :bigcry:

everyone can't be you baby :kiss:

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:38 PM
Well I wouldn't count on that if Maria's serve is back just like Serena needs her best serve to not lose so badly like in 2004.
You know Sharapova was killed mostly because she couldn't serve stop being stupid and don't think Serena was hitting winners on 110mph serve in OZ final or Miami Maria's first serve avg was really low just like the second one (she was injured you want us to take in count Serena just being back from knee surgery but you don't even pay attention to Maria's issues what is that)
And like I said a thousand times noone is comparing them just saying the fact that Maria raped Serena in the final still piss you off even though like you said Serena beat Maria 5 times since this match and 2 times severely.
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/41/52o12v.gif (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/52o12v.gif/)



Serena raped the living ish outta her twice since :wavey:

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:40 PM
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/41/52o12v.gif (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/52o12v.gif/)

OMG I was so in love with Charmed and Prue Halliwell, good times.

acetoace
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:41 PM
yeah, just like she supposedly was due to murder Maria this year too, init?:wavey:Instead she lucked out to win a first set and had to hit 19 aces to prevail against mediocre Pova...


Ummmmm, I'm thinking Maria played her out to fend off yet another beatdown from Serena. Thanks to Serena being off little bit. Just wait till 2010 USO comes around. Looks like someone is due for another dose of reality check. Just go ask Hingis in 2002.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:41 PM
And that same sorry Venus Williams in that would have owned Maria Sharapova on grass, like she always has. Thats the joke, Pironkova is owning Venus, yet Venus is owning Maria :lol:

OWNED it was way back in 2005 and 2007 this Venus won the titles, Venus 2010:tape:

madmax
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:42 PM
OK lets face facts here:

Maria has only been to one Grand Slam QF for the past three years
Her movement is horrible, Hantuchova level now, worse than it ever was
Her poor technique on the serve and forehand will forever plague her and cause her to have chronic injuries and inconsistent performances
She hasnt beaten a Top 40 player all year
Shes losing in the first round of Grand Slams
Her game is showing little to no signs of improvement.
Her game has totally declined, and she lost her only real advantage: her mental strength. Venus is mentally out toughing her these days.
Shes finished.

allright, let's face some real facts now, not imaginary ones..
Maria just turned 23, so she's far from finished
Williams Sistas are turning 29 and 30, so they will be finished soon
Maria was mainly injured for the past 2 years, so her GS record in that time period is irrelevant
Her game is improving - she has a better serve and better net game now
Her mental strenght will be back
Venus is busy losing to Petrova's and Pironkova's of this world and is already irrelevant in slams

But you can keep on trying

xan
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:46 PM
allright, let's face some real facts now, not imaginary ones..
Maria just turned 23, so she's far from finished
Williams Sistas are turning 29 and 30, so they will be finished soon
Maria was mainly injured for the past 2 years, so her GS record in that time period is irrelevant
Her game is improving - she has a better serve and better net game now
Her mental strenght will be back
Venus is busy losing to Petrova's and Pironkova's of this world and is already irrelevant in slams

But you can keep on trying
Excellent points. :worship:

Some Williams fans are SO insecure regarding Maria. :eek:

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:47 PM
allright, let's face some real facts now, not imaginary ones..
Maria just turned 23, so she's far from finished
Williams Sistas are turning 29 and 30, so they will be finished soon
Maria was mainly injured for the past 2 years, so her GS record in that time period is irrelevant
Her game is improving - she has a better serve and better net game now
Her mental strenght will be back
Venus is busy losing to Petrova's and Pironkova's of this world and is already irrelevant in slams

But you can keep on trying

but SERENA STILL OWNED THE HELL OUT OF SHARAPOVA!! GOT THAT. SHE HASN'T WON A SET OVER SERENA SINCE 05 IN SLAMS.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:50 PM
but SERENA STILL OWNED THE HELL OUT OF SHARAPOVA!! GOT THAT. SHE HASN'T WON A SET OVER SERENA SINCE 05 IN SLAMS.

They met each other 2 times:lol:

le bon vivant
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:51 PM
allright, let's face some real facts now, not imaginary ones..
Maria just turned 23, so she's far from finished
Williams Sistas are turning 29 and 30, so they will be finished soon
Maria was mainly injured for the past 2 years, so her GS record in that time period is irrelevant
Her game is improving - she has a better serve and better net game now
Her mental strenght will be back
Venus is busy losing to Petrova's and Pironkova's of this world and is already irrelevant in slams

But you can keep on tryinghttp://i25.tinypic.com/fu85k4.gif
Youre delusional. Maria sucks now. Deal with your new reality. :lol:

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:52 PM
They met each other 2 times:lol:

she still owned her. and don't forget those 2 bad beatdowns in 07 , 6-1 6-2 - 6-1 6-1.

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:54 PM
http://i25.tinypic.com/fu85k4.gif
Youre delusional. Maria sucks now. Deal with your new reality. :lol:

:spit: :haha: love this Gif
let them talk. at the end of the day , Serena has 13 GS , Maria 3. Serena/Maria H2H 6-2 won the last 5. don't think we need to argue anymore. and about their games , if Serena can beat her just with her serve :tape::tape: it says a lot

acetoace
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:55 PM
allright, let's face some real facts now, not imaginary ones..
Maria just turned 23, so she's far from finished
Williams Sistas are turning 29 and 30, so they will be finished soon
Maria was mainly injured for the past 2 years, so her GS record in that time period is irrelevant
Her game is improving - she has a better serve and better net game now
Her mental strenght will be back
Venus is busy losing to Petrova's and Pironkova's of this world and is already irrelevant in slams

But you can keep on trying


Maria would be waiting for a longlonglong time if waiting for WS to retire is what she is banking on to win more slams. Even assuming that is in 4yrs, do u honestly and objectively see pova's potential increasing 4yrs from now? I think not. Diminishing potential sounds about right if her trajectory holds up.

Just because Serena is able to pull it off at her age don't mean pova can. Hell, pova already is struggling to make qfinals as we speak can't even win anything significant right now at 23. That says alot, don't it?

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:55 PM
she still owned her. and don't forget those 2 bad beatdowns in 07 , 6-1 6-2 - 6-1 6-1.

How could I forget that you guys are saying that all the time we get it Serena cleaned Maria's asshole in 2007 yada yada you feel better now.

young_gunner913
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:56 PM
allright, let's face some real facts now, not imaginary ones..
Maria just turned 23, so she's far from finished
Williams Sistas are turning 29 and 30, so they will be finished soon
Maria was mainly injured for the past 2 years, so her GS record in that time period is irrelevant
Her game is improving - she has a better serve and better net game now
Her mental strenght will be back
Venus is busy losing to Petrova's and Pironkova's of this world and is already irrelevant in slams

But you can keep on trying

Serena is turning 29 and she won 2 out of the 3 slams this year...
Of course trying desperately to discount this years AO R1 loss and continue the excuse Maria is still injured.
Her game is improving yet Serena beat her in 2.
Serena's mental strength (esp when she plays Maria) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything Maria can come up with.

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:56 PM
if Serena can beat her just with her serve :tape::tape: it says a lot

Well it seems that the only thing Serena has lately : A SERVE.

Vikapower
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:57 PM
True to form,you came back with your ignorant diatribe. Who touted the IF,IF,IF, COULDA, WOULDA, SHOULDA stuff? Your dumb ass started that with your rants about "Serena's serve". If Serena did't have this, if Serena didn't have that BS.
:lol: You're funny I've never supported posters who said things like if Serena didn't have a serve she would never win a match, a slam, matches, big titles... I've aways supported that as dumb talk. I'm just stating the obvious. :rolleyes:

Serena's not Dementieva for God's sake. Dement even without a serve can hang with anybody including Serena. Watching their confrontations you suppose an easy job for Serena when she plays Dement and yet you get : Dement 5 Serena 7, 50% of their matches have been tight, tied 5 all on hard, 2-0 on grass and Dement has little serve skills. Theses are the type of stats Serena would never be able to sustain against the rest of the field without having a serve and that Dement is able to boast. Do you now understand ?

As of the coulda, woulda things... Wim 2010 Serena was unbeatable, AO 2008 Maria was too and whichever player they would have faced at this time they would have won and you keep denying that time and time again. Why not accept that Maria 2008>>>Serena and Serena 2010>>>Maria 2010. :rolleyes: Now Maria 2008 vs. Serena 2010, no one has the outcome since theses 2 have never played each other when playing their very best.

Now that's where some dumb posters like you come with their "according to their antecedents" thing Maria would get crushed : woulda, coulda, will... = pure stupid fans predictions or regrets and that's where I say statistics don't tell whose going to win or lost the next match so stop beeing so confident in Serena's stats before the match has even been played. Saying that Sharapova will never beat Serena in a slam again is just dumbarse talk.

But saying Serena's technic is overrated is not a scandal and saying that their are players who are miles away better than her such as Dement (FH, movement), Maria (FH, return, BH), Vika (BH, return), Jelena (BH, movement, anticipation), Wozniacki (movement), Kuz (FH, movement, variety), Kim (timing, FH, anticipation, speed, footwork)... to brief 60%+ of the field have better technic but Serena is winning the slams and that's what that counts. :shrug:

Sharapova has built her legitimity by what she has accomplished when compared to her siblings could you just undertand that ? There's no comparison to Serena or whatsoever but could you just recognize that from that standpoint she's great ? :p

spiritedenergy
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:57 PM
http://i25.tinypic.com/fu85k4.gif
Youre delusional. Maria sucks now. Deal with your new reality. :lol:

:happy:

I wouldn't say she is finished, she's still so young... but since her comeback she's just a very average player, i wouldn't say journeywoman (that's ana:sad:) but not really relevant to the top game...

when and if she'll start having good wins over top players, then we can talk. and i repeat, she is not comparable to serena, it's like comapring capriati to serena, capriati beat serena so many times yet serena figured her out and never lost again

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 10:58 PM
Well it seems that the only thing Serena has lately : A SERVE.

If it makes you think that Sharapova is a better player : GREAT ;)

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:00 PM
If it makes you think that Sharapova is a better player : GREAT ;)

I said lately.

le bon vivant
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:01 PM
Well it seems that the only thing Serena has lately : A SERVE.A serve and some Top 40 wins
When is Maria going to get either :lol::lol::lol:

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:01 PM
:lol: You're funny I've never supported posters who said things like if Serena didn't have a serve she would never win a match, a slam, matches, big titles... I've aways supported that as dumb talk. I'm just stating the obvious. :rolleyes:

Serena's not Dementieva for God's sake. Dement even without a serve can hang with anybody including Serena. Watching their confrontations you suppose an easy job for Serena when she plays Dement and yet you get : Dement 5 Serena 7, 50% of their matches have been tight, tied 5 all on hard, 2-0 on grass and Dement has little serve skills. Theses are the type of stats Serena would never be able to sustain against the rest of the field without having a serve and that Dement is able to boast. Do you now understand ?

As of the coulda, woulda things... Wim 2010 Serena was unbeatable, AO 2008 Maria was too and whichever player they would have faced at this time they would have won and you keep denying that time and time again. Why not accept that Maria 2008>>>Serena and Serena 2010>>>Maria 2010. :rolleyes: Now Maria 2008 vs. Serena 2010, no one has the outcome since theses 2 have never played each other when playing their very best.

Now that's where some dumb posters like you come with their "according to their antecedents" thing Maria would get crushed : woulda, coulda, will... = pure stupid fans predictions or regrets and that's where I say statistics don't tell whose going to win or lost the next match so stop beeing so confident in Serena's stats before the match has even been played. Saying that Sharapova will never beat Serena in a slam again is just dumbarse talk.

But saying Serena's technic is overrated is not a scandal and saying that their are players who are miles away better than her such as Dement (FH, movement), Maria (FH, return, BH), Vika (BH, return), Jelena (BH, movement, anticipation), Wozniacki (movement), Kuz (FH, movement, variety), Kim (timing, FH, anticipation, speed, footwork)... to brief 60%+ of the field have better technic but Serena is winning the slams and that's what that counts. :shrug:

Sharapova has built her legitimity by what she has accomplished when compared to her siblings could you just undertand that ? There's no comparison to Serena or whatsoever but could you just recognize that from that standpoint she's great ? :p

what about Charleston?
anyway all the things you've written about Serena tops everything I have seen

Galsen
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:02 PM
I said lately.

and what Maria has lately?

narutos
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:09 PM
and what Maria has lately?

Not Serena's serve.

Donny
Jul 11th, 2010, 11:12 PM
Well it seems that the only thing Serena has lately : A SERVE.

Breaking news: Serena becomes first tennis player in history to break opponents with her serve