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Volcana
Jul 7th, 2010, 04:49 AM
Okay, so why her?

Figure the best is Serena. You can argue about that, but it's an argument you'll lose most of the time. Anybody who reads this forum regularly knows I don't think much of the ranking system. However, at the moment, #2 ranked Jelena Jankovic, at 5900 points, is marginally closer to #13 Henin than she is to #1 Serena. Serena is the best player by any objective measure. Right now.


Candidates for #2.


The other two current slam champs. Clijsters and Schiavone
The four slam current slam finalists. Henin, Stosur, Wozniacki and Zvonareva
The top five ranked players in 12 month rankings: Serena, JJ, Venus, Wozniacki and Stosur


Slam performance tells you who does best when everyone is peaking, ranking tells who does best week-to-week.


By 12 month rank (rk) and race rank (rc)

rk rc
-- --
02 03 Jankovic
03 08 Wozniacki
04 02 Venus
05 04 Stosur
07 13 Clijsters
08 06 Schiavone
09 07 Zvonareva
13 05 Henin


Remember, all I'm doing is trying to make sure I include the second best player on the tour in the group. The arguments for each player are NOT equally strong.

And remember, it's about NOW. Venus Williams and Justine Henin have very strong resumes. But they both have to reach back a couple years for a slam win.

Optima
Jul 7th, 2010, 04:50 AM
Jelena Jankovic.

Lin Lin
Jul 7th, 2010, 04:51 AM
JJ for sure:worship:

Volcana
Jul 7th, 2010, 04:56 AM
Jelena Jankovic.Just to move the thread along, why is a player who hasn't made a slam final in the last seven slams better than those that did? Fact is, she's only made it past the fourth round once in those seven slams. Winning Indian Wells is nice, but IW is, in effect, Dubai, not Madrid.

Why her?

VeeJJ
Jul 7th, 2010, 04:57 AM
JJ she is always consistent.. She will most likely take Serena's ranking b4 the year is up she has so little to defend for the rest of the year... Just a Final in Tokyo and semi in Doha...

VeeJJ
Jul 7th, 2010, 04:58 AM
Just to move the thread along, why is a player who hasn't made a slam final in the last seven slams better than those that did? Fact is, she's only made it past the fourth round once in those seven slams. Winning Indian Wells is nice, but IW is, in effect, Dubai, not Madrid.

Why her?

yeah so this statement definietly makes Schiavone and Stosur way better than her on a regular basis.... :help:

tennnisfannn
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:01 AM
in a two weeks serena won't even seem like the no.1 when she startrs losing routinely in the tour events. I think stosur despite her early wimby loss, it wasn't a bad loss- she came up against kanepi in rd 1, had she played someone else, she would probably have gone deep.
I suspect she still she still has the most wins on the tour for this year-

Orbis
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:02 AM
Is this like at this very point in time who's the second best, or who's been the best in the past year to deserve being called second best?

spiritedenergy
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:04 AM
Jelena Jankovic.

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4084/interesting.gif

Lord Choc Ice
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:06 AM
in a two weeks serena won't even seem like the no.1 when she startrs losing routinely in the tour events. I think stosur despite her early wimby loss, it wasn't a bad loss- she came up against kanepi in rd 1, had she played someone else, she would probably have gone deep.
I suspect she still she still has the most wins on the tour for this year-
AYFK? :weirdo: It was a horrible loss. Sammy-GOAT should've been able to handle 11-match losing streak girl any day of the week. :lol:

I voted for Venus.

Donny
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:06 AM
JJ she is always consistent.. She will most likely take Serena's ranking b4 the year is up she has so little to defend for the rest of the year... Just a Final in Tokyo and semi in Doha...

Serena leads her in the YEC race 5355 to 3717 and in the 52 week rankings 8475 to 5900. Serena would basically have to not play the USO for that to happen.

ptkten
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:09 AM
At her best, I think it's Venus. She's looked second best to me this year a lot of times but has had some very strange matches this year at really important times like Miami, Rome, Madrid, Wimbledon, etc. so I really don't know what to make of form right now, and because of that inconsistency I can't rank her second.

Other than Venus, I look at who I see to be a threat to Serena at the slams. The only players I'm really worried might beat Serena at a major right now outside the French are Kim and Justine.

So because Justine's injured, I guess I would say Kim, even though her form's not great right now.

darrinbaker00
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:11 AM
Jelena Jankovic is the second-best female singles player in the world, because the WTA Tour ranking computer says so. How Volcana, I or anyone else feels about that doesn't matter. Next topic, please.

Optima
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:19 AM
Jelena Jankovic is the second-best female singles player in the world, because the WTA Tour ranking computer says so. How Volcana, I or anyone else feels about that doesn't matter. Next topic, please.

:worship:

Donny
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:21 AM
Jelena Jankovic is the second-best female singles player in the world, because the WTA Tour ranking computer says so. How Volcana, I or anyone else feels about that doesn't matter. Next topic, please.

Where does the WTA it's ranking rank players from best to worst?

kiwialicat
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:23 AM
If it was about in general who is second best to Serena I would say Justine without a doubt. But as of right now, no way is she even close to second best, despite the two Oz finals and a few tournaments.

The problem is that two recent slam winners + Stosur couldn't back it up. Kim looked good for a bit, as did Venus, but both have had weird losses this year and fell apart in the quarters at Wimbledon, I believe. Kim has beaten Justine x3 this year, though. Wozniacki isn't in great form either. Jelena has been alright without actually doing too much, I suppose. Zvonareva deserves props for making the finals, but is it a one off?

If you go by rankings, it's Jankovic. If you go by who is most likely to be a threat to Serena this North American hard court season, it would be Kim. I think, they are all pretty close in form, none of them really stand out.

darrinbaker00
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:24 AM
Where does the WTA it's ranking rank players from best to worst?
http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/RankingsSingles/0,,12781~0~1~100,00.html

Right there, that's where.

CloudAtlas
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:25 AM
Leave Jankovic alone, she worked hard to get to #2...she won Indian Wells against an extremely difficult opponent, who never gets blown off the court and requires great finesse and skill to beat and reached a slam semi beating top names Bondarenko and Shevydova.

Roookie
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:30 AM
Leave Jankovic alone, she worked hard to get to #2...she won Indian Wells against an extremely difficult opponent, who never gets blown off the court and requires great finesse and skill to beat and reached a slam semi beating top names Bondarenko and Shevydova.

:sobbing:

shoparound
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:30 AM
Saint Kim should be # 2, she's beaten just about all the top players and her favorite part of the year is coming up.

Donny
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:34 AM
http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/RankingsSingles/0,,12781~0~1~100,00.html

Right there, that's where.

That shows who has more points. It doesn't say that higher ranked players are better. You're assuming things.

DefyingGravity
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:36 AM
In the computer: Jelena Jankovic
To the fan bases: their player
In terms of achievement: Venus Williams
In terms of the right now: Stosur/Schiavone/Clijsters

Donny
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:37 AM
Serena has more to defend in the USO series than Jelena and Jelena has nothing so with the amount of tennis she will play and if she gets good to decent results it will probably happen even if Serena defends her USO title.... Only if Jelena decides to totally suck it won't happen but if she plays anything like she started playing after Indian Wells... Serena better start caring about tournaments other than grand slams if she wants to keep her ranking...

http://www.usopenseries.com/Standings/

Jelena got to the quarters of Stanford and won Cincy.

Havok
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:37 AM
Nobody right now. Give Clijsters and Henin a few more tournaments and they are likely to turn it up. Plus Venus needs to stop clowning around during the Slams and put in solid performances.

Caralenko
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:48 AM
Leave Jankovic alone, she worked hard to get to #2...she won Indian Wells against an extremely difficult opponent, who never gets blown off the court and requires great finesse and skill to beat and reached a slam semi beating top names Bondarenko and Shevydova.

Kvitova has so much soft touch and finesse :hearts:

SerenaWFan
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:50 AM
Serena has more to defend in the USO series than Jelena and Jelena has nothing so with the amount of tennis she will play and if she gets good to decent results it will probably happen even if Serena defends her USO title.... Only if Jelena decides to totally suck it won't happen but if she plays anything like she started playing after Indian Wells... Serena better start caring about tournaments other than grand slams if she wants to keep her ranking...

Jankovic has 1120 points to defend this summer while Serena has 580. So, that's almost double the points for JJ. Plus, Serena didn't win the US Open, so she can gain there and she has absolutely no points defend between the Open and the YEC. Unless she gets injured, I don't see anyone who can taking her number ranking away from her. Venus is actually in the best shape out of everyone, because she has so little to defend, but I doubt she does it.

tennisforadults
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:58 AM
AYFK? :weirdo: It was a horrible loss. Sammy-GOAT should've been able to handle 11-match losing streak girl any day of the week. :lol:

I voted for Venus.

Sorry, get your facts right. :rolleyes:

Kanepi wasn't on a 11-match losing streak coming into Wimbledon. In fact, she won her 3 qualifying matches with ease. She was also a quarterfinalist at Birmingham (defeated by eventual champ Li).

Yes Sam should have been able to handle her, but Kanepi is no slouch.

Lord Choc Ice
Jul 7th, 2010, 06:01 AM
Leave Jankovic alone, she worked hard to get to #2...she won Indian Wells against an extremely difficult opponent, who never gets blown off the court and requires great finesse and skill to beat and reached a slam semi beating top names Bondarenko and Shevydova.
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/941/cherylcolewhat.gif

tennisforadults
Jul 7th, 2010, 06:04 AM
Jelena Jankovic is the second-best female singles player in the world, because the WTA Tour ranking computer says so. How Volcana, I or anyone else feels about that doesn't matter. Next topic, please.

This forum IS ABOUT the opinions of everyone. Why else would you be here? ;)

Despite what the ranking says, I think Volcana deserves credit for having framed the question nicely. I'm a huge advocate of the rankings (math doesn't lie) but it's a legitimate question to ask based on players' form.

My answer is Kim Clijsters, followed by Venus/Sam/Justine, then JJ.

Serenita
Jul 7th, 2010, 06:04 AM
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/941/cherylcolewhat.gif
:rolls:

darrinbaker00
Jul 7th, 2010, 06:14 AM
That shows who has more points. It doesn't say that higher ranked players are better. You're assuming things.
No, I'm going by objective criteria. You're the one who's assuming things.

Bruno71
Jul 7th, 2010, 06:22 AM
If we're talking about RIGHT NOW (not 52 weeks, not lifetime), well let's see...

Kim missed clay court season and lost to crybepa
Caro has done pretty much nothing
Fran fluked a slam and lost 1R
Vera played a few good matches at Wimbledon after a fairly below average 2010
Jelena had a good clay court season but could never finish the job, then flamed out once again at W
Henin's won Stuttgart and completely underwhelmed otherwise since AO.
Stosur looked like a champ but failed like a chump
Venus hasn't won anything of great note and lost to Pironkova

I say there's nobody to pick here :shrug:

claypova
Jul 7th, 2010, 07:24 AM
nJJ becuase she's ranked 2nd :shrug:

Baselinebasher
Jul 7th, 2010, 08:56 AM
nJJ becuase she's ranked 2nd :shrug:

By that logic Safina was the best player in the world when she was #1. And we all know what a quality player Safina is.

Break My Rapture
Jul 7th, 2010, 08:57 AM
I'd say, Vika.
She can actually beat all of those after Serena pretty comfortably (given their current forms and Vika's Eastbourne form which will hopefully continue in USO series).

Vaidisova Ruled
Jul 7th, 2010, 08:59 AM
Just to move the thread along, why is a player who hasn't made a slam final in the last seven slams better than those that did? Fact is, she's only made it past the fourth round once in those seven slams. Winning Indian Wells is nice, but IW is, in effect, Dubai, not Madrid.

Why her?
Because slams are overrated
French Open anyone?

TennisFan66
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:01 AM
By that logic Safina was the best player in the world when she was #1. And we all know what a quality player Safina is.

Yes she was and yes she was.

As for No 2 right now. Seen over last 52 weeks performance its Jelena Jankovic. Simples.

If you want to shorten the time frame, talk about specific surface and blah blah, it should be specified. If not, the ranking tells you the non biased and objective story.

#1SteffiGraf#1
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:04 AM
The best FEMALE tennis player in the world is Clijsters, I am still sure of that. She is just rusty in her first year of returning. I predict Kim will make the finals at Flushing, where she will lose to ATP tour player, Serena Williams.

Baselinebasher
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:07 AM
Yes she was and yes she was.

As for No 2 right now. Seen over last 52 weeks performance its Jelena Jankovic. Simples.

If you want to shorten the time frame, talk about specific surface and blah blah, it should be specified. If not the ranking tells you the non biased and objective story.

Judging by your avatar, I can see why you adopted this opinion... Abusing ranking system by playing 100+ matches a year and winning MM titles does not make you a better player. Wozniacki is still to win a meaningful title and regularly gets brutal beatings in slams before the second week and yet she's rank 3. It's absolutely hilarious.

TennisFan66
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:11 AM
Judging by your avatar, I can see why you adopted this opinion... Abusing ranking system by playing 100+ matches a year and winning MM titles does not make you a better player. Wozniacki is still to win a meaningful title and regularly gets brutal beatings in slams before the second week and yet she's rank 3. It's absolutely hilarious.


For goodness sake :rolleyes: ... How old are you?

Baselinebasher
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:16 AM
For goodness sake :rolleyes: ... How old are you?

So.. you don't have anything to refute anything I have said, so you post nonsense? Ok, then. :wavey:

Mikey.
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:20 AM
I say Kim. She has had some big fluctuations in her form over the last year, but she has had some of the best results at the big tournaments out of anyone other Serena. If not her then maybe Venus, Sam, Fran, JJ?

TennisFan66
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:21 AM
So.. you don't have anything to refute anything I have said, so you post nonsense? Ok, then. :wavey:

You rather I suggested you 'grow up'? .. Anyho, I'll try to remember not to pay any attention to any future posts of yours. Good bye.

Loungy
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:07 AM
Right now? Venus :shrug: She's #2 in the race, having played 2 less tournaments than #3 JJ. She has a much better YTD W/L record, too.

But honestly? None of them are that great. :shrug: Based on performance in previous years, we could expect standard USOS Kim to raise the bar a bit.

sarah7
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:36 AM
I would say Kim. At the moment she is the only one who would challenge Serena. And sure Justine with no elbow would still beat JJ...

WTAtennisfan15
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:42 AM
I can be as objective as ever and say that Masha is the second best now!

The Witch-king
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:43 AM
The best FEMALE tennis player in the world is Clijsters, I am still sure of that. She is just rusty in her first year of returning. I predict Kim will make the finals at Flushing, where she will lose to ATP tour player, Serena Williams.

Yeah Petrova, Kleybanova, Garcia Vidagany, Azarenka and Zvonareva would disagree :o

Stamp Paid
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Vahnus

MistyGrey
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:48 AM
Its between JJ and Kim.
But seriously, there is no second best right now. No one is consistent enough. I would give the edge to Kim.

Lulu.
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:53 AM
Hard to say, I would pick Venus.

tea
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:56 AM
Indeed, we should listen what WTA rankings computer says. Not so far ago, Caroline Wozniacki, indisputably, was the second best player in the world; today- Jelena Jankovic is.

OsloErik
Jul 7th, 2010, 11:05 AM
Today? Sevastova looked pretty good from the set I watched.

If you mean in general with the U.S. Open series upon us, I'd say Zvonareva has a very, very good chance to make up some distance in the rankings. She's a good hard courter and looked more mentally together at Wimbledon than I've seen her...ever.

Jankovic and Clijsters look to be in good form, and the fact that they are middling grass courters who looked above-average at Wimbledon is encouraging heading into their traditional bread-basket season.

Stosur and Schiavone would be my next tier, since they looked so sharp just a month ago and have some proving to do on hard courts.

Venus, Henin, and Wozniacki have looked relatively grim by their standards in the way they've lost the last two events. Henin simply looked out of her element at both slams, Venus looked alarmingly out of control, and Wozniacki simply had no next gear. Of the three, Venus could snap out of it quickly, but if Henin is really injured, forget about it. And Wozniacki is a form player; she needs to play a couple events to get going. Unfortunately, she also looks very tired lately. That's not positive with 1/3 of the season left.

JustPetko
Jul 7th, 2010, 11:17 AM
JJ, of course.

CloudAtlas
Jul 7th, 2010, 02:12 PM
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/941/cherylcolewhat.gif

:sobbing:



The incredibly obvious sarcasm in that entire post went over your heads then :p

miffedmax
Jul 7th, 2010, 02:33 PM
The player over the last two years who has been the biggest thorn in Serena's side has been out with an injury.

She comes back on July 26, still bangless, but ready to rock.

Singleniacki
Jul 7th, 2010, 02:36 PM
As much as i hate to say it, Venus.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 7th, 2010, 02:38 PM
in a two weeks serena won't even seem like the no.1 when she startrs losing routinely in the tour events. I think stosur despite her early wimby loss, it wasn't a bad loss- she came up against kanepi in rd 1, had she played someone else, she would probably have gone deep.
I suspect she still she still has the most wins on the tour for this year-

you're reallly hung up on that one fact that serena fans have gotten over long ago :lol:

siddharthrajpal
Jul 7th, 2010, 02:39 PM
sharapova not in the poll? i think she has stopped sucking...

siddharthrajpal
Jul 7th, 2010, 02:42 PM
Jelena Jankovic is the second-best female singles player in the world, because the WTA Tour ranking computer says so. How Volcana, I or anyone else feels about that doesn't matter. Next topic, please.

that stands for the last 52 weeks, he is asking right now :cuckoo:

Kipling
Jul 7th, 2010, 03:36 PM
Either Serena or Justine.

Sammo
Jul 7th, 2010, 03:59 PM
No way Venus. I'd say that for potential is number 1 Serena and number 2 Stosur, as they actually can destroy everything in their path. The fact that Serena doesn't give a shit for not very important tournament and that Sam can choke is another history.

faboozadoo15
Jul 7th, 2010, 04:37 PM
JJ

But soon it'll be Pova.

azinna
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:20 PM
I guess it's a toss up between Jankovic and Clijsters. Jelena's relative consistency since the spring can't be ignored. We'll see if she can maintain. Kim has had lower troughs but higher peaks. And she played Wimbledon to set up her hard court season. She'll likely play like the #2 over the next few months.

Stosur didn't seal the deal at RG, and she isn't handling the emotions that come with a loss like that too well. Similarly, Venus seems to be putting too much pressure on herself and would need to both work harder on her game and relax a bit to recapture her 2007 US Open form.

noamgdi
Jul 7th, 2010, 05:22 PM
Jelena

AnywhereButHome
Jul 7th, 2010, 06:33 PM
Venus !!!

Volcana
Jul 7th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Venus is my favorite player, but no way should she be leading this poll.

Volcana
Jul 7th, 2010, 07:14 PM
yeah so this statement definietly makes Schiavone and Stosur way better than her on a regular basis.... :help:I disagree that the question can be rationally interpreted to infer that. However, as I said, I was just trying to move the discussion portion of the thread along.Jelena Jankovic is the second-best female singles player in the world, because the WTA Tour ranking computer says so. How Volcana, I or anyone else feels about that doesn't matter. Next topic, please.50 posts later ....

Dodoboy.
Jul 7th, 2010, 07:25 PM
Voted Kim, hard to pick Vee after some shocking losses to top players and poor results at GS, although Clijsters not much better.

Bobisa
Jul 7th, 2010, 08:07 PM
Jelena Jankovic is the second-best female singles player in the world, because the WTA Tour ranking computer says so. How Volcana, I or anyone else feels about that doesn't matter. Next topic, please.
this :worship::)

Beat
Jul 7th, 2010, 08:53 PM
ZERO votes for fran :hysteric:

Brooklyn90
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:01 PM
Serena




Kim
Venus
Henin

CloudAtlas
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:16 PM
Oh for god's sake , the poster is saying TODAY. Rankings are done over 52 weeks so Jankovic isn't automatically the 2nd best player. Following that logic Ivanovic was the best player in the world heading into the US Open 2008.

goldenlox
Jul 7th, 2010, 09:18 PM
Right now I would say Kim because she is holding a major and Miami.
But in any given match, there seem to be 20 players who can beat each other.
It shows at the last 2 majors. Sam, Fran, Vera, all 1st time slam finalists

Miss Amor
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:36 PM
At this moment? Zvonareva

Over the past 52 weeks the rankings from my perspective are like this -

Serena
Kim
Fran
Stosur
Henin

Cosmologist
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:47 PM
lena dementieva

toby345
Jul 7th, 2010, 10:52 PM
Wow this shit again? :help:

Inger67
Jul 7th, 2010, 11:53 PM
I voted for Venus but why don't we just wait until the end of the season to find out for sure :shrug:

OsloErik
Jul 8th, 2010, 05:13 AM
I voted for Venus but why don't we just wait until the end of the season to find out for sure :shrug:

You really think Venus when she just got it handed to her at Wimbledon, her best event, so badly? I think she, Schiavone, and Stosur have some proving to do.

I'm still going with Jankovic, Clisjters, and Zvonareva as "the three". Clijsters and Jankovic performed very well at their worst surface, and Zvonareva just performed even better.

Henin might not even be an active player right now. In American baseball, she'd be on the DL, yeah?

Loungy
Jul 8th, 2010, 05:57 AM
Clijsters and Jankovic performed very well at their worst surface, and Zvonareva just performed even better.
So you're only using the very last tournament as parameter ("today"). Because if we go just a few weeks back, JJ also got her ass handed to her by Stosur in the first Slam she'd made it past R16 since '08. A Slam on a surface she likes. And Kim's AO loss was...

This discussion is a bit depressing. Here's hoping some of these ladies (if not all - that would be great) make solid, doubt-wiping runs at the USOS.

As I said before, I do believe Kim could raise her game and step to the plate, but that's based on past performances, not current!Kim.

Inger67
Jul 8th, 2010, 08:42 AM
So you're only using the very last tournament as parameter ("today"). Because if we go just a few weeks back, JJ also got her ass handed to her by Stosur in the first Slam she'd made it past R16 since '08. A Slam on a surface she likes. And Kim's AO loss was...

This discussion is a bit depressing. Here's hoping some of these ladies (if not all - that would be great) make solid, doubt-wiping runs at the USOS.

As I said before, I do believe Kim could raise her game and step to the plate, but that's based on past performances, not current!Kim.

Thank you.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2010, 08:42 AM
But Oslo is right...it isn't just the last tournament, it was the one before that too.

Venus isn't playing well right now. I mean she's the queen of Wimbledon and wins only 5 gamesssss!!!! :help: in her loss? That's not good, how you slice it.

Inger67
Jul 8th, 2010, 08:57 AM
But Oslo is right...it isn't just the last tournament, it was the one before that too.

Venus isn't playing well right now. I mean she's the queen of Wimbledon and wins only 5 gamesssss!!!! :help: in her loss? That's not good, how you slice it.

Still you can't base this off of one tournament.. Why can't you understand that? Yes Venus had a bad Wimbledon, yet she still made it further than Jankovic. If you want to take the worse parts of each players season look at JJ's start of the year with losses to Szavay, A.Bondarenko at AO 3rd round, Sevastova :tape:, Hantuchova 2x on CLAY, her AWFUL beating by Stosur at RG. Venus has only lost to one player outside the top 25 and that coming at Wimbledon. She did lose badly to both Kim and JJ but overall she has had the better season I think.

33-6 record for Venus: 84.6% (2 titles - Dubai & Acapulco)
32-12 record for JJ: 64% (1 title - Indian Wells)

EDIT: Also Venus has made the Quarters or better at 7 of 8 tournaments and F or better at 4 of 8 (Dubai, Acapulco, Miami, Madrid)
While JJ less than impressive 6 out of 12 QF showings and F or better in 2 of 12 (Indian Wells, Rome).

"That's not good, how you slice it."

SymphonyX
Jul 8th, 2010, 08:59 AM
In order, from first to last (rather, second to last. Serena's the best ATM):
1) Kim Clijsters
2) Venus Williams
3) Maria Sharapova
4) Justine Henin

Miss Amor
Jul 8th, 2010, 09:45 AM
In order, from first to last (rather, second to last. Serena's the best ATM):
1) Kim Clijsters
2) Venus Williams
3) Maria Sharapova
4) Justine Henin

However you look at it, this year, Pova is not above Henin/Zvonareva/Jankovic/Stosur/Schiavone/Na Li/ Dementieva

SymphonyX
Jul 8th, 2010, 09:53 AM
However you look at it, this year, Pova is not above Henin/Zvonareva/Jankovic/Stosur/Schiavone/Na Li/ Dementieva

Henin most likely, but given Sharapova's form in Wimbledon I bet Pova can beat Henin by simply outgunning her. TBH, Henin and Sharapova are basically tied. Neither are at their best, but their regular form can kick ass most players sans the elite. But the rest of those you mentioned? They've got a lopsided losing record against Pova, as well as Clijsters, Henin and Venus.

It's like saying Venus Williams isn't that good (aka SUCKS) just cause she lost relatively early in Wimbledon. But we know that isn't the case. Venus can and will kick Pironkova's ass on a regular day.

Well, I don't know about you. But my performance metric mostly rests on past records. Empirical evidence if you will.

Each one to his own.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2010, 10:08 AM
Still you can't base this off of one tournament.. Why can't you understand that? Yes Venus had a bad Wimbledon, yet she still made it further than Jankovic. If you want to take the worse parts of each players season look at JJ's start of the year with losses to Szavay, A.Bondarenko at AO 3rd round, Sevastova :tape:, Hantuchova 2x on CLAY, her AWFUL beating by Stosur at RG. Venus has only lost to one player outside the top 25 and that coming at Wimbledon. She did lose badly to both Kim and JJ but overall she has had the better season I think.

33-6 record for Venus: 84.6% (2 titles - Dubai & Acapulco)
32-12 record for JJ: 64% (1 title - Indian Wells)

EDIT: Also Venus has made the Quarters or better at 7 of 8 tournaments and F or better at 4 of 8 (Dubai, Acapulco, Miami, Madrid)
While JJ less than impressive 6 out of 12 QF showings and F or better in 2 of 12 (Indian Wells, Rome).

"That's not good, how you slice it."

One thing Vee has going is her consistency, i'll give her that. But her play at the majors this year....TOTALLY dissapointing. Plus it seems as soon as Vee runs into a player in form, she's toast.

Look at her losses. 6-2 6-0 to Kim, another lopsided loss to Jankovic, then Pironkova...plus Pironkova is no fluke, second time already she lost to the girl.

Kworb
Jul 8th, 2010, 10:12 AM
Justine Henin

StephenUK
Jul 8th, 2010, 10:35 AM
I think overall the second best player is Kim. She has won the US Open and Miami. Venus and Jankovic have not made a GS final in the last year and must be counted out; posters moan about Wozniacki's trouncings but Venus has lost in straight sets in her last 5 events to lower ranked players so I don't think she's much better at the moment.

But quite frankly, there is a huge gap between Serena and the rest at the moment. Serena is the only player who you can rely on in a grand slam these days - the others are :help:

Sammy Stones
Jul 8th, 2010, 11:12 AM
2. kim
3. sam
4. blurry
...

OsloErik
Jul 8th, 2010, 08:30 PM
So you're only using the very last tournament as parameter ("today"). Because if we go just a few weeks back, JJ also got her ass handed to her by Stosur in the first Slam she'd made it past R16 since '08. A Slam on a surface she likes. And Kim's AO loss was...

This discussion is a bit depressing. Here's hoping some of these ladies (if not all - that would be great) make solid, doubt-wiping runs at the USOS.

As I said before, I do believe Kim could raise her game and step to the plate, but that's based on past performances, not current!Kim.

Thank you.

Let's go back a few tournaments.

Wimbledon: Loses 2 and 3 to Tsvetana Pironkova.
French: Loses 4 and 3 to Petrova.
Madrid: Loses 2 and 5 to Rezai.
Rome: Loses 0 and 1 to Jankovic (the worst loss of her career, if I'm not mistaken).
Miami: Loses 2 and 1 to Clijsters.

Now, you posit that she made the QF, R16, F, QF, and F of those events. Whom did she beat to get there? I see two wins worth looking at, over Stosur and Schiavone in Madrid. Other than those two, the only "form" player who merits concern from, as you claim, the "2nd best femalie singles player in the world today" is... what do you know, I don't see a single in-form top player that she's beaten all year besides those two. Her top 10 wins are against Radwanska and Azarenka, neither of whom have done anything this year, and Stosur, which is a certifiably good win.

I literally do not see ANYTHING that a true Williams fan would highlight for a resume. No slam titles, no quality wins, nothing. Now, it's true that you can only beat who stands before you. But look who Stosur beat who stood before her, and this only to reach the FINAL of a tournament: Henin, S. Williams, and Jankovic. Zvonareva's Wimbledon run alone is probably a more impressive string of wins than Venus has had at any event this year.

I cannot see, at all, how someone who hasn't looked like a top 5 player in months can be considered the 2nd best player in the world. You know what her results look like? Wozniacki's last year. And I don't recall you proclaiming HER the 2nd best player in the world.

GreenGrass
Jul 8th, 2010, 08:56 PM
Clijsters

miffedmax
Jul 8th, 2010, 09:13 PM
lena dementieva

You must learn to phrase your answers better, like I did, otherwise it sounds like you're admitting Serena is actually better than Lena.

Dementheads have a reputation to uphold, you know.

LUVMIRZA
Jul 8th, 2010, 10:07 PM
lolll...poor Jankovic(or its Safina:sobbing:) leave her alone.

OsloErik
Jul 9th, 2010, 06:39 AM
Bump. I don't want this thread to disappear to the 2nd page without someone responding to post #91.

WowWow
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:09 AM
Serena

PLP
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:26 AM
Right now? Venus :shrug: She's #2 in the race, having played 2 less tournaments than #3 JJ. She has a much better YTD W/L record, too.

But honestly? None of them are that great. :shrug: Based on performance in previous years, we could expect standard USOS Kim to raise the bar a bit.

Agreed.
Of course she has some strange losses this year, but this is Venus and she always has, but Kim is very close. I expect she will turn it on for the North American Hard-courts.

1. Serena
2. Venus
3. Kim

bandabou
Jul 9th, 2010, 07:46 AM
Agreed with Oslo. Venus is just a more powerful version of Wozniacki right now. Look at her losses...NOT good.

As soon as she runs into an in-form player, the results haven't been pretty.

kiwifan
Jul 9th, 2010, 02:36 PM
I know it is just a TF poll, but I'm shocked how far Henin's stock has fallen...from savior of the tour to well behind Jelena J?

Isn't she undefeated in H2H with JJ? :tape: :haha: :tape:

Jus sayin'....:shrug:

Vlover
Jul 9th, 2010, 03:05 PM
:happy:I know it is just a TF poll, but I'm shocked how far Henin's stock has fallen...from savior of the tour to well behind Jelena J?

Isn't she undefeated in H2H with JJ? :tape: :haha: :tape:

Jus sayin'....:shrug:
I just love how Williams fans just have long memories and if necessary can provide the evidence too.:happy: After the USO last year with all that was said, who would have thought Justine and Kim would have been Slamless and not top 5 at this point.:lol: I would love to know what Justine and Carols are thinking at this juncture of the come back especially her hopes for Wimbledon.;)

JJ all the way
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:04 PM
Jelena Jankovic is the second-best female singles player in the world, because the WTA Tour ranking computer says so. How Volcana, I or anyone else feels about that doesn't matter. Next topic, please.

JJ is obviously #2, she had that nice, long talk with the queen..:hearts::drool:

Loungy
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:28 PM
I cannot see, at all, how someone who hasn't looked like a top 5 player in months can be considered the 2nd best player in the world.
Because the competition doesn't amount to much either. :shrug: While I like Venus fine, I'm not a fan, and I agree her results have been unimpressive. I chose her because of her W/L record, for being 2nd in the race (with not that many tournaments under her belt, so she's not tournament whoring), and because the players in this pool who've had more quality wins, have also had some pretty atrocious, inexcusable losses along with some poor Slam showings.

Looking like a top 5 player three/four weeks a year (mostly in non-Slam events) doesn't = 2nd best player in the world to me either. :shrug:

I don't know, man. I'm not vehement about my Venus pick. And I still feel like this is a "Who is less lame?" discussion. :sad:

Alejandrawrrr
Jul 9th, 2010, 05:39 PM
I'd say Clijsters, only because she's the only person on this list who has any real chance of beating Serena, assuming there are no Pironkova-esque upsets here. This would be easier if Venus/Clijsters/Jankovich could have pulled off an RG win, in which case they would have been the clear-cut #2(At least, for me.)

sweetpeas
Jul 9th, 2010, 09:09 PM
VENUS!No doubt!

Sammo
Jul 9th, 2010, 09:36 PM
Zuzana Ondraskova! :lol:

Deck
Jul 9th, 2010, 09:38 PM
Serena

Szavay #1
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:10 AM
sam :shrug:

A-Chak
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:13 AM
Venus

JJ Expres
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:22 AM
Judging by your avatar, I can see why you adopted this opinion... Abusing ranking system by playing 100+ matches a year and winning MM titles does not make you a better player. Wozniacki is still to win a meaningful title and regularly gets brutal beatings in slams before the second week and yet she's rank 3. It's absolutely hilarious.

hm you know how rankin system works?
obviously not? you can win 100 matches on MM tournament you gonna have 5*280+20+4+3=1427 points;)

goldenlox
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:32 AM
No one is getting bigger beat downs than Jankovic. She got about 4 games in her last 2 slam losses
Venus got 5 against Pironkova at Wimbledon.
The whole tour has been getting embarrassed this year, besides Serena.

JJ Expres
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:38 AM
No one is getting bigger beat downs than Jankovic. She got about 4 games in her last 2 slam losses

actually it's better that way...you don't get upset like agianst venus at US open or Ana at RG(after that loss i took some tablets to calm down xD )

goldenlox
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:41 AM
Those were really good matches. USO 2007 JJ-Venus, and the 2008 FO SF with Ana.

What happened to matches like that? They're rare this year

LightWarrior
Jul 10th, 2010, 12:47 AM
Nobody. It's just a big fat mess after Serena. What a shame.

OsloErik
Jul 20th, 2010, 12:29 PM
Because the competition doesn't amount to much either. :shrug: While I like Venus fine, I'm not a fan, and I agree her results have been unimpressive. I chose her because of her W/L record, for being 2nd in the race (with not that many tournaments under her belt, so she's not tournament whoring), and because the players in this pool who've had more quality wins, have also had some pretty atrocious, inexcusable losses along with some poor Slam showings.

I wanted to bump this because I just read the "she's not tournament whoring" comment, and it intrigued me.

There used to be a time when playing a Tier I and then playing a Tier IV wouldn't qualify as "tournament whoring", but that era died when Hingis ended 2001 as World #1.

Venus entering Acapulco is the very definition of "tournament whoring". It's an event a half-world away from her prior location, it's on an out-of-season surface, it's a Tier IV, and she was the highest-ranked player by 26 places (#5 to Szavay's #31). I get that she likes Acapulco (I've been, it's a great place) and that she wanted to honor her commitment. I find all those things admirable. But let's call it like it is; just because you don't play a ton of events doesn't mean you aren't making your hay at an unattended minor-league level of tournament play. Sharapova's doing it this season, and Venus took full advantage of a soft Dubai draw and the non-existent field at Acapulco. Neither play a ton of events, but they are taking the opportunities at little events and in open draw quarters where they can take them. That's not as impressive to me as the players who have made deep runs at big events beating tough players.

Also worth saying, again, that the thread question asks "today?", not in February/March, when Venus won those events and reached the Miami final. Back then, I'd say she probably was 2nd best in the world. But we've seend 3 full months of tennis since then, and she wasn't the flavor of any of those months. By now, the Venus ship for "2nd best...in the world today" has passed. It's on her to reclaim it; if anyone can, she can.

Baselinebasher
Jul 20th, 2010, 12:31 PM
Venus at #2...? Epic fail.

The Witch-king
Jul 20th, 2010, 01:20 PM
I wanted to bump this because I just read the "she's not tournament whoring" comment, and it intrigued me.

There used to be a time when playing a Tier I and then playing a Tier IV wouldn't qualify as "tournament whoring", but that era died when Hingis ended 2001 as World #1.

Venus entering Acapulco is the very definition of "tournament whoring". It's an event a half-world away from her prior location, it's on an out-of-season surface, it's a Tier IV, and she was the highest-ranked player by 26 places (#5 to Szavay's #31). I get that she likes Acapulco (I've been, it's a great place) and that she wanted to honor her commitment. I find all those things admirable. But let's call it like it is; just because you don't play a ton of events doesn't mean you aren't making your hay at an unattended minor-league level of tournament play. Sharapova's doing it this season, and Venus took full advantage of a soft Dubai draw and the non-existent field at Acapulco. Neither play a ton of events, but they are taking the opportunities at little events and in open draw quarters where they can take them. That's not as impressive to me as the players who have made deep runs at big events beating tough players.

Also worth saying, again, that the thread question asks "today?", not in February/March, when Venus won those events and reached the Miami final. Back then, I'd say she probably was 2nd best in the world. But we've seend 3 full months of tennis since then, and she wasn't the flavor of any of those months. By now, the Venus ship for "2nd best...in the world today" has passed. It's on her to reclaim it; if anyone can, she can.

you dumb Bitch Acapulco is her compulsory international tournament.

And you talk about "soft draws" and all that crap, well guess what Azarenka earlier this year was being touted as one of the best players on tour before her injury. Furthermore players like Schiavone, Stosur and Peer have not proven to be "soft" for anyone especially during the clay season. It's not Venus's fault she owns them making her draws appear "easy". Furthermore, name one other player in contention for this thread who hasn't had freak/bad losses or had a "better" YTD.

Now go away and shut your hating trap.