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View Full Version : is serena now a better player than the time when she won the serena slam?


siddharthrajpal
Jul 4th, 2010, 01:55 PM
There is one thing everybody would agree on is that she is serving great even bette than what she did in Doha last year.. So is she in her best form?

TSequoia01
Jul 4th, 2010, 01:57 PM
Nope, she may serve better and is smarter but 2002 Serena was the best that has ever been as far as level.

ElusiveChanteuse
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:00 PM
2002-2003 ---> Serena Slam
2009-2010 ---> No Serena Slam

:p

SerenaWFan
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:04 PM
Physically/athletically, no. But, game-wise, I'd say yes. She's a much smarter player nowadays and has more variety.

frenchie
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:14 PM
Hell no

Watch some of her USO 2002 match and you'll see what I'm talking about!

Pops Maellard
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:40 PM
2009-2010 Serena is excellent.

2002-2003 Serena is just plain scary. :scared:

So no. :p

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:45 PM
Different players...Serena '02-'03, ONLY place you had any hope was on clay and even thennn still needed some help to beat her. She was unplayable and brought it everywhere.

Nowadays she's vulnerable in the lesser events and of course on clay. But she's smarter and more resourceful now at the majors. She adapted her game to the fact that she no longer is as athletic as she used to be. Now she only brings it for the truly important games/ points.

TSequoia01
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:37 PM
Hell no

Watch some of her USO 2002 match and you'll see what I'm talking about!
For me 2002 Wimbledon was awesome her greatest level ever!

Le Chat
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:41 PM
Nope serena 2002 was too scary..

Volcana
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:42 PM
There is one thing everybody would agree on is that she is serving great even bette than what she did in Doha last year.. So is she in her best form?A good question, givven Serena won five of eight slams in 2002-2003, and she's won five of the last eight now.

Serena in 2002 was a better tennis player. Serena in 2010 is a better player of the game of tennis, in the way that tennis is like a chess game. Her decision-making is better. Her understanding of the important points of the match is better. Her use of the variety of her serves is better.

But in 2002 she was faster, her endurance was better, and frankly, she powered her way through her own mistakes. Serena won matches with 50 and 60 UEs. With -10 winner-to-UE ratios. Now look at Serena's match against Sharapova in this year's Wimbledon, which was by far he toughest match. 31 winners, 17 UEs. And that's with 19 aces. Do the math. On grass, against a not-that-fast player, Serena had 12 non-ace winners, and 17 UEs. That's NOT TRYING to blast your opponent off the court.

She's a very different player now. In baseball terms, she's a pitcher now, whereas she used to be a thrower.

was overwhelmed opponents

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:39 PM
That's it Volcana..that's the evolution. She's playing it smarter right now, pacing herself. But the clutchness, competitive spirit, mental strength...are all still as great as ever and then you get a player who's MONEY at the msjors.

azinna
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:50 PM
I agree with the general sentiment in this thread that Serena's a smarter player of the game now than in 2002. In 2002-03 her serve was strong but her ground-stroking made her unplayable. Her movement must have made several Olympic athletes nod in acknowledgement. And she managed her Winner/UE ratio much like Steffi did at her peak: knowing that she could count on making enough (supposedly) low percentage shots.

Now she's a better manager of her form. This includes being much more adept at working the nuances of her serve, her ground strokes, the physical court and the mental terrain of a given game, set and match. But she is also better at recognizing which of her strokes are working, which aren't and figuring out how to minimize the day's weaknesses (while emphasizing her opponent's).

Which version of Serena is better? I think this version may end up with a higher slam-winning rate. As Volcana says: it's currently 5 of 8 in both periods.

Thkmra
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:08 PM
Nope serena 2002 was too scary..

BS...YES she's a better player than she was, even in that mythical '02-03.

True she's lost that pure agressiveness in her game, not as dynamic and tenacious, and willing to fight for every point, but we have to look at what she gained in it's place. Her serve was NOWHERE it is now, as it has fully matured. Of course it was always a great weapon, now it has reached it's full potential.

Also though she has definitely slowed down, and lost some of her explosiveness in her footwork...let's be honest, her footwork has always been kind of Wonky, and awkward!! Because she can't run down every ball, and send it back for a clean winner like she once did, instead she's learned to play a lot smarter in constructing points, playing the percentages and thereby conserving energy. But with all that being said, for the most part when she needs to be firing on all cylinders, and positively stingy on the court, the' Old Serena' does make an appearence!!:lol:

ilovethewilliams
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:47 PM
Movement wise Serena was a lot better in 2002-2003. With that said I don't think Serena is at the level movement wise since she had surgery in 2003. If Serena was playing the way she did in 2002 at Wimbledon 2004 Maria would be Wimbledonless today or even Slamless.

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:57 PM
BS...YES she's a better player than she was, even in that mythical '02-03.

True she's lost that pure agressiveness in her game, not as dynamic and tenacious, and willing to fight for every point, but we have to look at what she gained in it's place. Her serve was NOWHERE it is now, as it has fully matured. Of course it was always a great weapon, now it has reached it's full potential.

Also though she has definitely slowed down, and lost some of her explosiveness in her footwork...let's be honest, her footwork has always been kind of Wonky, and awkward!! Because she can't run down every ball, and send it back for a clean winner like she once did, instead she's learned to play a lot smarter in constructing points, playing the percentages and thereby conserving energy. But with all that being said, for the most part when she needs to be firing on all cylinders, and positively stingy on the court, the' Old Serena' does make an appearence!!:lol:

Exactly...her Sf was a prime example. She weathered the storm of Petra at first and then figured out that the forehand of Petra was breaking down..voila: all balls to Petra and that give her the match.

Brilliant!

The Witch-king
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:02 PM
A good question, givven Serena won five of eight slams in 2002-2003, and she's won five of the last eight now.

Serena in 2002 was a better tennis player. Serena in 2010 is a better player of the game of tennis, in the way that tennis is like a chess game. Her decision-making is better. Her understanding of the important points of the match is better. Her use of the variety of her serves is better.

But in 2002 she was faster, her endurance was better, and frankly, she powered her way through her own mistakes. Serena won matches with 50 and 60 UEs. With -10 winner-to-UE ratios. Now look at Serena's match against Sharapova in this year's Wimbledon, which was by far he toughest match. 31 winners, 17 UEs. And that's with 19 aces. Do the math. On grass, against a not-that-fast player, Serena had 12 non-ace winners, and 17 UEs. That's NOT TRYING to blast your opponent off the court.

She's a very different player now. In baseball terms, she's a pitcher now, whereas she used to be a thrower.

was overwhelmed opponents

funny you say that because blasting through Maria was EXACTLY what Serena wanted to do. :lol:

Olórin
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:09 PM
BS...YES she's a better player than she was, even in that mythical '02-03.

True she's lost that pure agressiveness in her game, not as dynamic and tenacious, and willing to fight for every point, but we have to look at what she gained in it's place. Her serve was NOWHERE it is now, as it has fully matured. Of course it was always a great weapon, now it has reached it's full potential.

Also though she has definitely slowed down, and lost some of her explosiveness in her footwork...let's be honest, her footwork has always been kind of Wonky, and awkward!! Because she can't run down every ball, and send it back for a clean winner like she once did, instead she's learned to play a lot smarter in constructing points, playing the percentages and thereby conserving energy. But with all that being said, for the most part when she needs to be firing on all cylinders, and positively stingy on the court, the' Old Serena' does make an appearence!!:lol:

I disagree that her serve was nowhere near the level it was now.
On grass her serve was just as good, in 2002 she got broken only about 4-5 times in the whole tournament about 3(possibly four?) of those breaks were against Venus in the final. At the US Open, again, again barely any breaks, except for the few Venus and Lindsay managed.

Also her serve was such a huge weapon on clay then as well - she would get in all first serves in a tie break or four in a row when she needed them for a big game. That doesn't happen now. So overall I think even her serve was a bit better then.

I don't think she's that much more tactically gifted now than she was then, she could make every shot in the book back in 2002 and constructed points beautifully, she has never been a ball-basher. This is the sort of thing I was saying throughout 2005 and 2006, people had forgotten how good Serena was in 2002, and I think some of the younger people on this board have perhaps never even seen a full Serena match from that era. She was arguably the very best of all time back then too, she just didn't have the numbers to back it up at all.

I guess I agree with Volcana to an extent, I think what is better about Serena now is her whole approach to the game, she will peak at the right time of the right match, she obviously studies her opponents before she plays them and goes out with a game plan, she manages her schedule and her health better - this all indirectly contributes to her level of tennis.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:25 PM
Serena is a more COMPLETE, deliberate player now.

She's not as much of a "high wire act" as in the past. Her game doesn't live on the edge as it used to.

Back in the day, she hit the ball flatter and went for the lines more. There was very little margin for error. When she pulled it off, it was BREATH TAKING! No other player in history was doing what she did in the combination she did it - speed, serving, groundstrokes, shot-making - just unbelievable (unplayable) at times. When it was off however, it was an error-fest that was often hard to right. Of course the obvious stuff was she was fitter, faster and able to leap more tall buildings in a single bound... etc, etc, but that was because she had an older girls body, now she has a young WOMAN'S body.

Now, she plays smarter, higher percentage tennis. She nows how to alter her game more seamlessly than in the past, more subtly. She serves BETTER than ever, imo - even more control. She still capable of superlative movement, but quite likely not the sustained track meets that the JCap matches of the past became. Much of that is due to the knee injury as it is the physical change.

On balance, I'd say the two Serena's split 50/50 against each other, but I'd likely give the edge to '02 - '03 Serena over the long haul.

The Dawntreader
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:30 PM
Serena in '02 was almost as unplayable as it gets.

'10 Serena certainly has a more intimate knowledge of angles, greater approach to forecourt play, and probably understands the limitations in her own game better rightly or wrongly. Serena in '02 was SO imposing, and she would look to make dramatic statements early on in matches, with often freakishly brilliant displays of power. Nowadays with her physucal attributes lessened, Serena knows she can't be the dynamic athletic of 8 years ago, so she's adapted accordingly.

Plays % tennis almost exclusively nowadays, and her overt 'Big Babe' game is secondary to her moving the ball around the court, getting better height on the ball, picking her service spots more methodically etc, etc.

For all her cunning though, she still looks a world away from '02 Serena. She made the game look like a breeze. The way she man-handled Mauresmo in the semis in '02, it was as though the WTA tour was hers alone.

Calypso
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:30 PM
Nope, she may serve better and is smarter but 2002 Serena was the best that has ever been as far as level.

This.
She was really devastating in 2002-2003, definitely fitter and a better mover. There was nowhere to hide when she was playing her absolute best:bounce:.

madeaismad
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:59 PM
I think 2002-2003 Serena was THE scariest tennis player I have ever seen! She was sooo fast, fit, hit unplayable shots and was just a breath of delight. Now, I think Serena is more strategic than ever because of her knee. She knows she can't play the same way so she is substituting. With that said, I had a good look at her body during Wimbledon this year, and she is QUITE fit. And while she didn't move dynamically all the time, when she wanted to, she was the best as always. I do want to know what you all think is different about her movement/fitness? I think that it is the main difference between then and now, but what do you guys think? I wanna break this down a bit.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:31 PM
I think 2002-2003 Serena was THE scariest tennis player I have ever seen! She was sooo fast, fit, hit unplayable shots and was just a breath of delight. Now, I think Serena is more strategic than ever because of her knee. She knows she can't play the same way so she is substituting. With that said, I had a good look at her body during Wimbledon this year, and she is QUITE fit. And while she didn't move dynamically all the time, when she wanted to, she was the best as always. I do want to know what you all think is different about her movement/fitness? I think that it is the main difference between then and now, but what do you guys think? I wanna break this down a bit.

imo, the difference is she's carrying more mass on her frame. Yes, as evidenced at Wimby this year, it's mostly muscle, but it's still extra weight. This changes her strength/ratio quite a bit and makes her not as quick as she was (though still quicker than nearly every girl out there) and puts more stress on her joints, making her more susceptible to injury.

She's evolved her serve in such a way as to minimize exposing her body to the wear and tear that allowing matches to become track meets creates. In times past, track meets were always to her advantage. Now, though matches like that are BATTLES she can win, a tournament, a year, a career of track meets are WARS that her body would most likely lose.

T-GIRL87
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:36 PM
While the performance she displayed in Australian 2007 against Pova, was memorable, showcasing glimpses of what she did in her peak years, I also can appreciate the match she played in Wimbeldon this year against Pova, it was a more subtle and mature and tactial performance from Serena showing she isn't all about power and brawn, but smarts, being five years older than Pova and few steps slower, she knew she couldn't blow away Pova like in the previous years, but rely on her experience, mental fortitude and serving ablity. To produce the level of tennis she did in that final or when she was 21 requires a certain level of focus and intensity which would only expend too much unncessary energy, and I think Serena realized that.

Steffica Greles
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:38 PM
No

Yorker
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:38 PM
Better serve now, but 2002 Serena was scary. the intimidation factor was in full flight, and her confidence level was probably an all time high. I think she definitely hit the ball harder as well, she plays a smarter game nowadaways which is still extremely efficient but 2002 Serena was just scary.

Gdsimmons
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:43 PM
Serena is a more COMPLETE, deliberate player now.

She's not as much of a "high wire act" as in the past. Her game doesn't live on the edge as it used to.

Back in the day, she hit the ball flatter and went for the lines more. There was very little margin for error. When she pulled it off, it was BREATH TAKING! No other player in history was doing what she did in the combination she did it - speed, serving, groundstrokes, shot-making - just unbelievable (unplayable) at times. When it was off however, it was an error-fest that was often hard to right. Of course the obvious stuff was she was fitter, faster and able to leap more tall buildings in a single bound... etc, etc, but that was because she had an older girls body, now she has a young WOMAN'S body.

Now, she plays smarter, higher percentage tennis. She nows how to alter her game more seamlessly than in the past, more subtly. She serves BETTER than ever, imo - even more control. She still capable of superlative movement, but quite likely not the sustained track meets that the JCap matches of the past became. Much of that is due to the knee injury as it is the physical change.

On balance, I'd say the two Serena's split 50/50 against each other, but I'd likely give the edge to '02 - '03 Serena over the long haul.

Pretty much on the money with everything you said

volta
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:49 PM
The 02 Serena was SCARY , you could see that she was going after blood right on her first match. The Tennis , the intensity , the power , the athleticism was just out of this World.
This new version is great as well but the 2002 version was BRUTAL and had no mercy

Amalgamate
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:51 PM
PumaRena :hearts:

volta
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:53 PM
PumaRena :hearts:

even her outfits were better :hearts::hearts::hearts:

aisha
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:55 PM
No. This shouldn't be up for debate.

And well, Serena won tournaments on all surfaces. This chick was faster than a gazelle and her return game was much more devastating. Pure aggression from the first ball. :drool:

saint2
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:56 PM
There is one thing everybody would agree on is that she is serving great even bette than what she did in Doha last year.. So is she in her best form?

No. But the tour is worse.

Vaidisova Ruled
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:57 PM
No. According to this forum, Serena was supposed to give Maria a 62 60 beatdown. But her hardest match during this Wimbledon was actually a Sharapova who has not beaten a top 40 player so far this year.

azinna
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:58 PM
....With that said, I had a good look at her body during Wimbledon this year, and she is QUITE fit.....

Yes, this was the first time in years I've been able to say she looks close to her Aussie '05 tone. She may possibly be fitter. There were some incredible Rafa-like points she accomplished that would've likely fatigued her this January. I'd like to see her maintain this level and even improve.

...She's evolved her serve in such a way as to minimize exposing her body to the wear and tear that allowing matches to become track meets creates. In times past, track meets were always to her advantage. Now, though matches like that are BATTLES she can win, a tournament, a year, a career of track meets are WARS that her body would most likely lose.

Very much agree. I'll also say that -- when she's calm, focused and fit -- Serena puts her improved anticipation on display, and she ends up striking a less body-taxing balance between track meet and chess match. Her US Open '08 final against Jelena is a great example of this. As is Wimby '09.

narutos
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:01 PM
No. According to this forum, Serena was supposed to give Maria a 62 60 beatdown. But her hardest match during this Wimbledon was actually a Sharapova who has not beaten a top 40 player so far this year.

6260 you're way too generous she was supposed to win 6060.

Vaidisova Ruled
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:05 PM
6260 you're way too generous she was supposed to win 6060.
60 60 with Maria announcing her retirement just after the match !

volta
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:10 PM
No. According to this forum, Serena was supposed to give Maria a 62 60 beatdown. But her hardest match during this Wimbledon was actually a Sharapova who has not beaten a top 40 player so far this year.

what does that have to do with the topic ? :unsure:

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:17 PM
Serena in '02 was almost as unplayable as it gets.

'10 Serena certainly has a more intimate knowledge of angles, greater approach to forecourt play, and probably understands the limitations in her own game better rightly or wrongly. Serena in '02 was SO imposing, and she would look to make dramatic statements early on in matches, with often freakishly brilliant displays of power. Nowadays with her physucal attributes lessened, Serena knows she can't be the dynamic athletic of 8 years ago, so she's adapted accordingly.

Plays % tennis almost exclusively nowadays, and her overt 'Big Babe' game is secondary to her moving the ball around the court, getting better height on the ball, picking her service spots more methodically etc, etc.

For all her cunning though, she still looks a world away from '02 Serena. She made the game look like a breeze. The way she man-handled Mauresmo in the semis in '02, it was as though the WTA tour was hers alone.

Yep...Serena '02 was beating top 10/5 players like they were qualifiers. NO chance at all. She was on you from ball one.

Nowadays she waits for the game 7 of sets..and thwen BAM, u lost a set..without knowing. Different players.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:27 PM
2002 - Best physical specimen women's tennis has ever seen. Like Bandabou said, she was beating Top 5 players like juniors. You were just hoping to stay out there for an hour.

2010 - A much smarter player, who is playing a much "deeper tour" (in the sense that the top players aren't what the they used to be, but the 30-80 players are playing much better, so things are more equal).

If Serena was as smart as she is now, back then, and never had that knee injury...I think it's safe to say that she'd be knocking on 20 by now for sure.

Myskinacomeback
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:41 PM
shes defeated WORST players each year so no
come on get real!!! Venus didnt even make this years final
she lost to Porn
do i need state more

Diesel
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:03 PM
shes defeated WORST players each year so no
come on get real!!! Venus didnt even make this years final
she lost to Porn
do i need state more

If the so called good players lose before they either meet Serena or the final (same thing), what is Serena supposed to do about it?

Myskinacomeback
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:10 PM
good players?
what have i been missing?
Henin retired
Kim had a kid
Sharapova beens injured more times than Jankovic
and Robsons disabled by the age rule

what others did i miss?

Diesel
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:21 PM
Oh they all suck then :lol:

Myskinacomeback
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:26 PM
Oh they all suck then :lol:

look
im NOT knocking Serena
shes one of the all time greats
but come on!!!!!look at some of the #1 players of the last few yeras and how can some of the others even reach top10 status
and Schiavone winning a slam with Stosur in the final

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:37 PM
2002 - Best physical specimen women's tennis has ever seen. Like Bandabou said, she was beating Top 5 players like juniors. You were just hoping to stay out there for an hour.

2010 - A much smarter player, who is playing a much "deeper tour" (in the sense that the top players aren't what the they used to be, but the 30-80 players are playing much better, so things are more equal).

If Serena was as smart as she is now, back then, and never had that knee injury...I think it's safe to say that she'd be knocking on 20 by now for sure.

That damned knee injury! :mad: Thank goodness she could bounce back. But indeed...without it, she'd be at least at 17/18 by now.

Donny
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:40 PM
No. According to this forum, Serena was supposed to give Maria a 62 60 beatdown. But her hardest match during this Wimbledon was actually a Sharapova who has not beaten a top 40 player so far this year.

An inspired Sharapova playing Serena's C game makes it close. Nice to know.

narutos
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:43 PM
An inspired Sharapova playing Serena's C game makes it close. Nice to know.

I think you wrong an inspired Pova would have won 6164.

Donny
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:45 PM
I think you wrong an inspired Pova would have won 6164.

Against a Serena "just coming back from major surgery!!!!111" perhaps.

narutos
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:50 PM
Against a Serena "just coming back from major surgery!!!!111" perhaps.

Well Serena won 76 64 against a Sharapova coming back from shoulder injury Maria did way better.

Le Chat
Jul 4th, 2010, 10:22 PM
Well Serena won 76 64 against a Sharapova coming back from shoulder injury Maria did way better.


yeah.;she is coming back since 2007..:lol:

Diesel
Jul 4th, 2010, 10:23 PM
yeah.;she is coming back since 2007..:lol:

:lol: so true. Same story.

Andy.
Jul 4th, 2010, 10:25 PM
02/03 Serena would beat the Serena of today and she played a more exciting brand of tennis.

denny5576
Jul 4th, 2010, 10:48 PM
Both Serena and Venus said (this year and last year) that they improved their game and are better players now in comparison to that period. Their opinions are much more important and valid than any opinions of fans.
Considering the fact that their game is based on and depends very much on the serving and that both Serena and Venus had improved a lot their first and second serves during the last 2-3 years their opinion is very logical and on solid basis (there is enough data to prove the improvement).

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jul 4th, 2010, 11:02 PM
yeah.;she is coming back since 2007..:lol:

What's with all this sudden burst of serena vs maria posts ? :lol: it's like comparing Kuznetsova to BIllie Jean King.

Maria is a great player and a champion, but Renafans let's not drag Serena into these lower leagues by participating in these useless 3 vs 13 pova-rena battles.

LightWarrior
Jul 4th, 2010, 11:11 PM
Tactically and tennistically she has improved a lot. For instance she rarely used the cross-court shots before, which were so effective in the final against Zvonareva. During the Puma years it was all about power and pounding. Which makes her more gracious and more pleasing to the eye. Her shots are less powerful than during the 2002/03 years but what she lacks in power now have been compensated by a better technique and a better vision of the game.

Gdsimmons
Jul 4th, 2010, 11:21 PM
What's with all this sudden burst of serena vs maria posts ? :lol: it's like comparing Kuznetsova to BIllie Jean King.

Maria is a great player and a champion, but Renafans let's not drag Serena into these lower leagues by participating in these useless 3 vs 13 pova-rena battles.

:worship::worship:

brent-o
Jul 4th, 2010, 11:40 PM
I think the answer is yes. She's HAD to be a better player because the women's game has evolved since then. I mean, just look at the less than stellar (though still admirable) comeback of Henin, and Hingis a few years back, for evidence that things can change so quickly.

denny5576
Jul 5th, 2010, 01:03 AM
Wimbledon 2002 - Serena's fastest serve 117 mph
Wimbledon 2003:
Serena's average 1st serve 101.7 mph
Serena's average 2nd serve 83.3 mph

Wimbledon 2010:
Serena's fastest serve 125 mph
Serena's average 1st serve 113 mph
Serena's average 2nd serve 96 mph
and we know Serena can serve now even better ....
Serena model 2003 would not be able to do anything against Serena's model 2010 serving.
Therefore Serena model 2003 will lose against Serena model 2010 without any doubt.

kiwifan
Jul 5th, 2010, 01:48 AM
no.

she might be more patient, well rounded, tactical, etc...

...but Serena in the Serena Slam period was like Peak Monica Seles, only with a awesome serve...

...she was as good as tennis playing gets, you don't need to be well rounded or varied in tactics if what you do works against EVERYBODY and NO ONE can beat you.

Wisdom is no substitute for young arms and legs (I'm currently coming to terms with this fact in my own athletic career and boy is it a painful pill to swallow :()

darrinbaker00
Jul 5th, 2010, 02:01 AM
Wisdom is no substitute for young arms and legs (I'm currently coming to terms with this fact in my own athletic career and boy is it a painful pill to swallow :()
It's a good thing you weren't around Arthur Ashe in 1975. ;)

serenafan08
Jul 5th, 2010, 02:22 AM
Serena now has more shot variety; she can lob, slice, hit short angles, and she moves her serve around better now than ever. Before it was about power; she just hit harder than anybody. Now all the girls hit hard, but she has more ways to mix her game up. She can play defense against these girls, and her mentality is stronger than ever. That's really why she's better now; she has had more matches, more experience to draw from. Australia 2007 was the perfect tournament for her; saving match point against Elena last year was probably one of her best wins. Serena still have 3-4 more good years left in her, maybe more than that even.

Pops Maellard
Jul 5th, 2010, 03:17 AM
02/03 Serena would beat the Serena of today and she played a more exciting brand of tennis.
Yeah also Serena of 2002-3 wouldn't lose more than 2 games a match to Wozniacki, let alone have to save match points against her. :tape:

Volcana
Jul 5th, 2010, 03:48 AM
Serena in 2002 is, in a way, common. (I use the term for affect)

Forget history, Serena's own generation had players who would perform close to that level for periods of time. Hingis, Henin, Venus ... her own generation. That happens when players are younger than 25. But ask after players who win slams at this rate when they're older than 25. It's a short list, and if you want a good look at it, check out whols ahead of Serena in slam singles wins.

Serena '02 was better. But what Serena '10 is doing is vastly more historical.

chuvack
Jul 5th, 2010, 08:24 AM
Absolutely not, Serena 2002-03 was far more dominant, and she did it against far better competition.

Serena today is more confident and mature, and doing what she has to do to win. But the level of play, is not comparable to the Serena Slam.

chuvack
Jul 5th, 2010, 08:25 AM
.

Serena '02 was better. But what Serena '10 is doing is vastly more historical.


Great point.

bandabou
Jul 5th, 2010, 08:32 AM
Show's how impressive Serena is. She didn't let her diminishing athletic skills stop her from winning. She dominated with her athletiscism and now she's dominating with a more polished game. To all the haters who said she only won because she was too big, too strong.

spencercarlos
Jul 5th, 2010, 08:38 AM
Tactically and tennistically she has improved a lot. For instance she rarely used the cross-court shots before, which were so effective in the final against Zvonareva. During the Puma years it was all about power and pounding. Which makes her more gracious and more pleasing to the eye. Her shots are less powerful than during the 2002/03 years but what she lacks in power now have been compensated by a better technique and a better vision of the game.
FAIL... once again. Serena was always been known for her amazing angles on the court. I bet that those angles could be hit cross court right? :tape::help:

She demolished Venus at Wimbledon 2002, then she played an amazing phisical game, she even prevented her oponnents back then from hitting double digit winners per match,... that was f.cking amazing because she would produce 25-40 winners per match and she allowed 8-9 at most :lol:...

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jul 5th, 2010, 08:43 AM
Lindsay said during Wimbledon about Serena's peak period: 'If she was on her game, she is the only player ever that I would go up against just hoping and trying to win a couple of games' ( this coming from a champion who has played across eras against player like Graf and Seles)

1jackson2001
Jul 5th, 2010, 08:50 AM
I've seen her play in 2002 and I've seen her play now...sorry, but her 2002 is much better. I think some people are suffering from "recency effect". They see how great she served this Wimbledon and automatically think she serves like that all the time in her 2009-2010 stretch. No, she doesn't consistently serve like that. Kudos to her for serving very great at this Wimbledon of course. Groundstrokes...lol it's not even comparable. The "only" part that she may be slightly better at is the mental aspect of the game. She goes to a plan B more often...because let's face it, her plan A doesn't work as well now (at least she can't call on it as consistently anymore...)

A good question, givven Serena won five of eight slams in 2002-2003, and she's won five of the last eight now.

Serena in 2002 was a better tennis player. Serena in 2010 is a better player of the game of tennis, in the way that tennis is like a chess game. Her decision-making is better. Her understanding of the important points of the match is better. Her use of the variety of her serves is better.

But in 2002 she was faster, her endurance was better, and frankly, she powered her way through her own mistakes. Serena won matches with 50 and 60 UEs. With -10 winner-to-UE ratios. Now look at Serena's match against Sharapova in this year's Wimbledon, which was by far he toughest match. 31 winners, 17 UEs. And that's with 19 aces. Do the math. On grass, against a not-that-fast player, Serena had 12 non-ace winners, and 17 UEs. That's NOT TRYING to blast your opponent off the court.

She's a very different player now. In baseball terms, she's a pitcher now, whereas she used to be a thrower.

was overwhelmed opponents
One detail you're missing with that statement. Serena didn't even enter AO 02 and USO 03 due to injuries. She would have been the overwhelming favorite to win those given her form back then, had she entered those (especially for USO 03). Fact is, Serena won 5 of 6 slams back then. And was likely to even be at 6 of 7 or better. The Serena now "only" won 5 of the last 8. Worse winning ratio. And that's only at majors. Serena in 2002-03 would blow by opponents week-in, week-out, able to bring her dominating tennis consistently. Serena doesn't have that ability anymore and can only peak at the majors (which is great for her, she knows where to prioritize of course).


Exactly...her Sf was a prime example. She weathered the storm of Petra at first and then figured out that the forehand of Petra was breaking down..voila: all balls to Petra and that give her the match.

Brilliant!
Yeah, but the Serena of 2002-03 wouldn't even need to "weather the Petra storm" so to speak, lol. She would still win against Petra playing lights out (or at least not be down a break like what happened last week). The scoreline would have been easier.

1jackson2001
Jul 5th, 2010, 08:54 AM
Serena in 2002-2003 mode: Think AO final 2007, almost to that ability, all the time. :lol:
She would still have the odd bad day at the office of course, but she'd still find a way to win, even in the small tournaments. She just wasn't going to lose, no matter the surface either.

bandabou
Jul 5th, 2010, 09:11 AM
I've seen her play in 2002 and I've seen her play now...sorry, but her 2002 is much better. I think some people are suffering from "recency effect". They see how great she served this Wimbledon and automatically think she serves like that all the time in her 2009-2010 stretch. No, she doesn't consistently serve like that. Kudos to her for serving very great at this Wimbledon of course. Groundstrokes...lol it's not even comparable. The "only" part that she may be slightly better at is the mental aspect of the game. She goes to a plan B more often...because let's face it, her plan A doesn't work as well now (at least she can't call on it as consistently anymore...)


One detail you're missing with that statement. Serena didn't even enter AO 02 and USO 03 due to injuries. She would have been the overwhelming favorite to win those given her form back then, had she entered those (especially for USO 03). Fact is, Serena won 5 of 6 slams back then. And was likely to even be at 6 of 7 or better. The Serena now "only" won 5 of the last 8. Worse winning ratio. And that's only at majors. Serena in 2002-03 would blow by opponents week-in, week-out, able to bring her dominating tennis consistently. Serena doesn't have that ability anymore and can only peak at the majors (which is great for her, she knows where to prioritize of course).



Yeah, but the Serena of 2002-03 wouldn't even need to "weather the Petra storm" so to speak, lol. She would still win against Petra playing lights out (or at least not be down a break like what happened last week). The scoreline would have been easier.

Serena ' 02 was just a different specimen. But sometimes I enjoy the current Serena more. Serena ' 02 it was all too easy for her. 6-2 6-2 under a hour and that was it. Thank you very much.

Now she's showing that she CAN win in a different manner as well. That's great to see.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 5th, 2010, 09:27 AM
What's with all this sudden burst of serena vs maria posts ? :lol: it's like comparing Kuznetsova to BIllie Jean King.

Maria is a great player and a champion, but Renafans let's not drag Serena into these lower leagues by participating in these useless 3 vs 13 pova-rena battles.
:yeah:

I like Maria, but... Please.

Serena's only peers are now King, Evert, Nav', Court and Graf.

narutos
Jul 5th, 2010, 10:49 AM
This Serena is better she just have to deal with better players now back in 2002 there was no Henin, Sharapova and Clijsters at this level of course.

denny5576
Jul 5th, 2010, 11:05 AM
Where did you see "far better competition against Serena" in that period?
In the ill attempt to prove how great Serena was in 2002 - 2003 many here forget that the same players who played against Serena at that time continued to play after 2002 - 2003 period and became much better players later... And Serena was playing against much better players in the last 5 years than players in the period 2002 - 2003.
Sharapova model Wimbledon 2010 is much better than any of the players who played against Serena during 2002 - 2003 on hard and grass courts. Henin model 2007 is much better than any of the players who played against Serena during 2002 - 2003 on any surface. And so on, the list can be continued.... In order to beat them Serena MUST be better than Serena model 2002 - 2003. And she was. And she is.
That's the simple logic of the facts. That's why both Serena and Venus, and Richard as well said several times that they improved their game and became better.
You ignore what Serena and Venus said, but they know about their own game much more than you!

Bijoux0021
Jul 5th, 2010, 11:17 AM
Although she served great at this Wimbledon, she was a lot better during her Serena Slam. Back then, her opponents were happy if they took 6 games from her. 95% of her matches were already won before taking the court. She was also winning lots of non-slam tournaments. Now she only concentrates on winning Grand Slams.

bandabou
Jul 5th, 2010, 11:35 AM
:lol: Indeed...Serena ' 02 was just ridiculous. Winning Wimledon AND Open back to back barely breaking a sweat. U.S. Open, NO tie-breakers, only one 7-5 set even. Dang! Good old days.

bandabou
Jul 5th, 2010, 11:36 AM
:lol: Indeed...Serena ' 02 was just ridiculous. Winning Wimledon AND Open back to back barely breaking a sweat. U.S. Open, NO tie-breakers, only one 7-5 set even. Dang! Good old days.

petesz
Jul 5th, 2010, 12:49 PM
No.
WTA keeps reaching new low with a player only 60% of her best form still dominating the tour.

There is one thing everybody would agree on is that she is serving great even bette than what she did in Doha last year.. So is she in her best form?

siddharthrajpal
Jul 28th, 2010, 12:36 PM
added the poll before...

Calypso
Jul 28th, 2010, 01:20 PM
She was quicker and a lot more aggressive in '02-'03. But she plays smarter and more patiently now.
Overall, she was definitely better in '02-'03.

Olórin
Jul 28th, 2010, 02:10 PM
I watched my DVD of the 2002 US Open Final today, the first match I had watched of 2002Rena in months. I was actually surprised that there wasn't a bigger gap between Wimbledon 2010 Final Serena and that Serena.

- Serena was more aggressive off the ground in 2002, but she still hits just as hard now when she needs to.
- Serena's serve is more consistent now, but she could still ace her way to victory in 2002 if she wanted to.
- Serena had touch and variety, excellent point construction and all court play then just as now - however, now she incorporates into her gameplan over the course of a match.
- Serena was quicker then, but I would say she is only a step behind now - not two steps.

However, I agree with what someone said earlier, what makes 2002 Serena better is that she played this way week in, week out. Whether she doesn't do that now because she can't or because she is simply preserving her body in ordinary tour events is a matter of discussion.

denny5576
Jul 28th, 2010, 02:28 PM
When at her best now Serena is much better than Serena at her best in 2002 - 2003.
The impression which some members here expressed that Serena was easily winning in 2002 - 2003 does not consider the fact the opposition in 2002 - 2003 was weaker than now.

serenafan08
Jul 28th, 2010, 02:35 PM
I think she's better now. The experience just makes her head and shoulders above the rest. She has always been a great player, but you can't measure the heart of a person. That is Serena's biggest weapon.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 28th, 2010, 02:38 PM
When at her best now Serena is much better than Serena at her best in 2002 - 2003.
The impression which some members here expressed that Serena was easily winning in 2002 - 2003 does not consider the fact the opposition in 2002 - 2003 was weaker than now.

:rolls:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 28th, 2010, 02:47 PM
I watched my DVD of the 2002 US Open Final today, the first match I had watched of 2002Rena in months. I was actually surprised that there wasn't a bigger gap between Wimbledon 2010 Final Serena and that Serena.

- Serena was more aggressive off the ground in 2002, but she still hits just as hard now when she needs to.
- Serena's serve is more consistent now, but she could still ace her way to victory in 2002 if she wanted to.
- Serena had touch and variety, excellent point construction and all court play then just as now - however, now she incorporates into her gameplan over the course of a match.
- Serena was quicker then, but I would say she is only a step behind now - not two steps.

However, I agree with what someone said earlier, what makes 2002 Serena better is that she played this way week in, week out. Whether she doesn't do that now because she can't or because she is simply preserving her body in ordinary tour events is a matter of discussion.


i think it's more preservation and the fact that almost everyone hits hard these days and have adjusted to the power game...

while she is head and shoulders above in the power, i think she realised that it's what players expect to get from her and it's what coaches prepare their players for when it comes to her...i keep recalling 2007 (:o) where you just wanted her to play every match like the AO final, then the Miami final happened where she had to incorporate another game plan since the shots were missing badly...i think that was a blessing in disguise and created the methodical player she is today (ignoring how poorly she was executing in 07 :o)

she's more patient and the improved fitness lets her know she can stay out on court and play long points, opening up the court, instead of having to hit her opponent of the court

Marty-Dom
Jul 28th, 2010, 06:52 PM
I would take the third option if it were there. She is now every bit the player she was in 02. What she has lost in raw speed she makes up for in experience. In an imaginary match between Serena 1.0 and Serena 2.0 we would most likely see something like an Azarenka-Serena match, where Serena 1.0 comes out swinging and gets ahead by a set and a break only to see Serena 2.0 exploit her weaknesses later in the match. Of course Serena 1.0 doesn't fold mentally like Azarenka can, so the final outcome would be a third set tiebreak, which either one wins 50% of the time.
I think Serena is stronger now than she was in 02, she just doesn't swing away at the ball as much as she used to.
Just look at 09 Wimbledon semi. That was as hard hitting as she has in 02, but with more control and consistency.

darkangel23
Jul 28th, 2010, 06:55 PM
No, I think some players can match her play during rallies because she isn't as fast as she was in 2002. Nowadays her serve is just way better which prevents her from getting in these long rallies. Best example Wimbledon SF 09 vs. Dementieva. Lena owned most of the rallies but Serena's serve rescued her...

darkangel23
Jul 28th, 2010, 06:55 PM
But she's definitely fitter than in 07

Londoner
Jul 28th, 2010, 07:01 PM
No. Serena then was the most sensational player and persona on and off the court. Her appearance on the Tonight show with Leno, or was it the Late Show with Letterman in her black leather mini was breathtaking and raised and took the perception of tennis to new heights. She was awesome, knew it and everyone was agog as they had never seen it or anyone like her in tennis before. For star quality Serena then was only matched by Seles in her heyday.

darrinbaker00
Jul 28th, 2010, 07:35 PM
No. Serena then was the most sensational player and persona on and off the court. Her appearance on the Tonight show with Leno, or was it the Late Show with Letterman in her black leather mini was breathtaking and raised and took the perception of tennis to new heights. She was awesome, knew it and everyone was agog as they had never seen it or anyone like her in tennis before. For star quality Serena then was only matched by Seles in her heyday.
That's nice, but it doesn't answer the question.

denny5576
Jul 28th, 2010, 07:40 PM
No, I think some players can match her play during rallies because she isn't as fast as she was in 2002.
How do you know she was faster in 2002?

Le Chat
Jul 28th, 2010, 08:25 PM
How do you know she was faster in 2002?



:weirdo:

Soothing
Jul 28th, 2010, 08:51 PM
I think there are 3 things that are more prominent now as opposed to then. Motivation, maturity and laziness. Serena had always been known to give her all while playing a tournament no matter where, the trick was to get her to play. What's changed is she isn't willing nor motivated to give her all at lessor tourneys. Her unwillingness to play is laziness as Oracene has said over the years and maturity and experience have allowed her to accept losing much bettor than she had in the past. Serena's movement during the 08US open match against Venus proves she is every bit as fast as she was in 02. Can she be that fast consistently probably not, nor does she need to be. Being a bettor player means being smarter and conserving your energy to make it thru the long haul which equals 7 matches.

LightWarrior
Jul 28th, 2010, 08:52 PM
What does "better" mean ?
- If it means that she now understands the game better, is more able to build points, has more variety in her game and therefore is more enjoyable to watch : the answer is yes
- If it means she was faster, more powerful during rallies : the answer is yes as well.
So I will say that she's a better tennis player now but in terms of sheer power and speed (except for serve) she was "better" back then.

Deck
Jul 28th, 2010, 08:54 PM
Serena Slam:spit: wtf is this. she either mans up and wins all 4 titles in 2011 or does without MM descriptions like this one, and no she is not better

denny5576
Jul 28th, 2010, 09:10 PM
I think there are 3 things that are more prominent now as opposed to then. Motivation, maturity and laziness. Serena had always been known to give her all while playing a tournament no matter where, the trick was to get her to play. What's changed is she isn't willing nor motivated to give her all at lessor tourneys. Her unwillingness to play is laziness as Oracene has said over the years and maturity and experience have allowed her to accept losing much bettor than she had in the past. Serena's movement during the 08US open match against Venus proves she is every bit as fast as she was in 02. Can she be that fast consistently probably not, nor does she need to be. Being a bettor player means being smarter and conserving your energy to make it thru the long haul which equals 7 matches.
Thank you!
You said it better than I could.

MakarovaFan
Jul 28th, 2010, 09:24 PM
A good question, givven Serena won five of eight slams in 2002-2003, and she's won five of the last eight now.

Serena in 2002 was a better tennis player. Serena in 2010 is a better player of the game of tennis, in the way that tennis is like a chess game. Her decision-making is better. Her understanding of the important points of the match is better. Her use of the variety of her serves is better.

But in 2002 she was faster, her endurance was better, and frankly, she powered her way through her own mistakes. Serena won matches with 50 and 60 UEs. With -10 winner-to-UE ratios. Now look at Serena's match against Sharapova in this year's Wimbledon, which was by far he toughest match. 31 winners, 17 UEs. And that's with 19 aces. Do the math. On grass, against a not-that-fast player, Serena had 12 non-ace winners, and 17 UEs. That's NOT TRYING to blast your opponent off the court.

She's a very different player now. In baseball terms, she's a pitcher now, whereas she used to be a thrower.

was overwhelmed opponents
Thats a bit misleading 02-03 VS 08-10....plus 02-03 was like 5 of 6,with four being in a row whereas now other than 08 US and 09 AO,none have been back to back; anyways i think as a player she may have evolved and grown but her results aren't as strong(and im not just talking about non tour events). Alot more players can challenge her week in and week out,and many arent as afraid of her anymore. BUT she has grown to use her head and come out with the win at the big events/when it really matters(for the most part).

Lucemferre
Jul 28th, 2010, 09:27 PM
Serena Slam:spit: wtf is this. she either mans up and wins all 4 titles in 2011 or does without MM descriptions like this one, and no she is not better

It's winning four consecutive majors idiot :lol:

denny5576
Jul 28th, 2010, 09:30 PM
So I will say that she's a better tennis player now but in terms of sheer power and speed (except for serve) she was "better" back then.
What do you mean when saying "sheer power and speed"?
Her body was stronger then?
Or she was lifting heavier weights?
She was running faster or you mean the speed of her shots?
Because the speed of the shots in 2002, 2003 cannot be compared to the shots now. Not only Serena, not only Venus, but all players at that time had slower, weaker shots than now.
So, if "sheer power and speed" means the speed of the shots, then without any doubt Serena now is more powerful than in 2002, 2003.

Lilowannabe
Jul 28th, 2010, 09:43 PM
What do you mean when saying "sheer power and speed"?
Her body was stronger then?
Or she was lifting heavier weights?
She was running faster or you mean the speed of her shots?
Because the speed of the shots in 2002, 2003 cannot be compared to the shots now. Not only Serena, not only Venus, but all players at that time had slower, weaker shots than now.
So, if "sheer power and speed" means the speed of the shots, then without any doubt Serena now is more powerful than in 2002, 2003.

Id disagree that, serena at least, hit weaker shots back in the 2002/2003 era.
She crushed every ball back then, just watch her matches on youtube at any grandslam. She was was fearless, she was younger and speedier around the court so had time to tee of the ball!!
Infact generally the top of the womens game is less power based now as the girls just arent simply beaten by pace, its more stratergy i think.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 28th, 2010, 09:50 PM
What do you mean when saying "sheer power and speed"?
Her body was stronger then?
Or she was lifting heavier weights?
She was running faster or you mean the speed of her shots?
Because the speed of the shots in 2002, 2003 cannot be compared to the shots now. Not only Serena, not only Venus, but all players at that time had slower, weaker shots than now.
So, if "sheer power and speed" means the speed of the shots, then without any doubt Serena now is more powerful than in 2002, 2003.

ummmm are you being serious with this? :lol:

Nicolás89
Jul 28th, 2010, 09:56 PM
Better player? Yes. Her athleticism is nowhere near the level she used to have.

Olórin
Jul 28th, 2010, 10:07 PM
In an imaginary match between Serena 1.0 and Serena 2.0 we would most likely see something like an Azarenka-Serena match, where Serena 1.0 comes out swinging and gets ahead by a set and a break only to see Serena 2.0 exploit her weaknesses later in the match. Of course Serena 1.0 doesn't fold mentally like Azarenka can, so the final outcome would be a third set tiebreak, which either one wins 50% of the time.

Serena 1.0 was a supreme frontrunner; she would close out a 64 40 lead in two sets methinks(?). Serena 2.0 is an excellent frontrunner but she also has days like the Olympics 2008, Miami Final 2008.

I propose that Serena 2.0 is evidently inferior to Serena 1.0 until she manages to win four Grand Slams in a row - because that's the most impressive thing you can do in tennis. Serena did it at 21 years old and has failed to do it since - no matter what experience, court awareness and champion's experience she has gathered since then.

LightWarrior
Jul 28th, 2010, 10:13 PM
Id disagree that, serena at least, hit weaker shots back in the 2002/2003 era.
She crushed every ball back then, just watch her matches on youtube at any grandslam. She was was fearless, she was younger and speedier around the court so had time to tee of the ball!!


Yes and now she's more inclined to use more spin to have more time and make up for her lack of speed. For all I know these days she can be outpowered during rallies by a few other top players (Dementieva, Azarenka..). Which doesn't prevent her from winning agaisnt them because of THAT serve of hers. I just watched on youtube the Toronto semi final in 2001 (or 02?)against Seles. I mean that was excellent tennis but to me it's nothing like the tennis she's playing now. She was such a bully then, sheer brutal force.

denny5576
Jul 28th, 2010, 10:17 PM
ummmm are you being serious with this? :lol:
If you have something to say related to the subject of my post, then say it.

LightWarrior
Jul 28th, 2010, 10:24 PM
Better player? Yes. Her athleticism is nowhere near the level she used to have.

Athleticism isn't everything in tennis thank God. Otherwise players like Evert or even Hingis would never have been tennis greats. Serena has come to understand and incorporate that in her current tennis, which is great.

denny5576
Jul 28th, 2010, 10:42 PM
Id disagree that, serena at least, hit weaker shots back in the 2002/2003 era.

Of course you can disagree. But it does not change the fact - during 2002, 2003 the shots of Serena were weaker than now. And it is valid not only for Serena...
You and other members are talking too much about "impression", ignoring the data. Of course Serena was impressive then. Venus was also impressive. It was pleasure to watch them.
But their shots at that time were weaker than now. And there is not any shame in that. The rule is simple - faster, higher, stronger...
The shots of the current players will be weaker than the shots of the players playing in year 2018.

Olórin
Jul 28th, 2010, 10:47 PM
it does not change the fact - during 2002, 2003 the shots of Serena were weaker than now.

Post the data in the thread in your next post or you're talking BS.

denny5576
Jul 28th, 2010, 11:29 PM
Post the data in the thread in your next post or you're talking BS.
If your statement is correct, than it is valid for everybody, not only for me.
So, do you really insist that whoever made a statement in this thread without data is talking BS?

Olórin
Jul 28th, 2010, 11:31 PM
If your statement is correct, than it is valid for everybody, not only for me.
So, do you really insist that whoever made a statement in this thread without data is talking BS?

You're the only one who has claimed there is "data" and that your point is fact. But the fact is, you're talking bull shit.

The Dawntreader
Jul 28th, 2010, 11:34 PM
Serena back then didn't seem to have any limitations physically or mentally.

Can we say the same now? Doubtful.

denny5576
Jul 29th, 2010, 12:44 AM
You're the only one who has claimed there is "data" and that your point is fact. But the fact is, you're talking bull shit.
Do you mean the points which other members made are not facts and their opinions are far from the reality because they do not claim that their point is a fact?
And think before posting your answer because it could mean everybody here is talking BS.

Pops Maellard
Jul 29th, 2010, 12:52 AM
Serena hit weaker shots then?
http://i46.tinypic.com/4kcg1z.gif

darrinbaker00
Jul 29th, 2010, 12:57 AM
Do you mean the points which other members made are not facts and their opinions are far from the reality because they do not claim that their point is a fact?
And think before posting your answer because it could mean everybody here is talking BS.
There's no "could" about it. Everybody here IS talking :bs:, and I, for one, hope that never changes. :yeah:

mauresmofan
Jul 29th, 2010, 01:00 AM
Physically/athletically, no. But, game-wise, I'd say yes. She's a much smarter player nowadays and has more variety.

100% agree - if her serve from Wimbledon is anything to go by then that's improved too and makes her almost impossible to beat

Gdsimmons
Jul 29th, 2010, 01:06 AM
It all depends on what you want to call better. She clearly isnt as fast and not this super runner anymore. But she clearly understands the game more.

Direwolf
Aug 2nd, 2010, 06:15 PM
100% agree - if her serve from Wimbledon is anything to go by then that's improved too and makes her almost impossible to beat

Maria almost beat her @ Wimbledon!



No! she is not a better player now!

on singles!

doubles maybe!

Lucemferre
Aug 2nd, 2010, 06:26 PM
Maria almost beat her @ Wimbledon!



No! she is not a better player now!

on singles!

doubles maybe!

:lol:

shoryuken
Aug 2nd, 2010, 06:27 PM
Maria almost beat her @ Wimbledon!



No! she is not a better player now!

on singles!

doubles maybe!

How is almost taking a set off someone = almost beating them?

GAGAlady
Aug 2nd, 2010, 06:28 PM
Serena is a much better overall player now than she was all those years ago.

Tennis is a journey....if you can tell me ypur game is WORSE than it was years ago...i wouldnt think that was a good thing. Serena is no exception.

Shes smarter, hits the ball with purpose and uses tactics better. Her serve is much better'

The only thing Serena did in 2002 was smash the hell out of the ball...she is much more patient and steady now.