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View Full Version : Do you honestly think that Serena will win 5 more slams?


supergrunt
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:07 AM
to tie Navratilova and Evert which would unquestionably make her the best player of all-time?

Baselinebasher
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:12 AM
to tie Navratilova and Evert which would unquestionably make her the best player of all-time?

That would be Steffi Graf. Did you forget about her? Serena needs to win 9 more slams (that should include couple of RGs to prove that her 2002 win wasn't a fluke), surpass her at the amount of weeks at #1 and win a Calendar Grand Slam. Good luck.

Andy.
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:23 AM
Even if she did tie with evert/Nav it still wouldnt make her the most successfull of all time. She hasnt had nearly enough weeks or year end number 1's and has hardly any titles when compared to the leading ladies.

Wiggly
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:24 AM
Well, the competition isn't that great out there.

She'll probably win Wimbledon two more times if not more, she's always a threat in Melbourne and she can add up a few titles in NYC and Paris, why not?

Gdsimmons
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:26 AM
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad207/mishane/Funny%20Macros/Funny%20GIFs/hvqo7kjpg.gif

friendsita
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:26 AM
5... yeah she can

Michael.
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:27 AM
Yes.

kiwifan
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:30 AM
Who's gonna stop her...

...and hate to show my Seles bias but 18 is the magic number. ;)

....If Justine had gotten stabbed and Serena had won 3 French Opens as a result, then I'd up the "magic number".

I have too much respect for how good Monica Seles was becoming to ever feel any different. :shrug:

spartanfan
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:31 AM
That would be Steffi Graf. Did you forget about her? Serena needs to win 9 more slams (that should include couple of RGs to prove that her 2002 win wasn't a fluke), surpass her at the amount of weeks at #1 and win a Calendar Grand Slam. Good luck.
Aaaah, Steffi Graf doesn't have the record for most GS single titles either, hate to burst your bubble. And what does a calendar grand slam have to do with anything? Serena has held all four major at the same time, to make the argument that they wern't all in the same calendar year is quite stupid. The point is to hold all four GSs at once, and she's done this. I believe the history books have it listed under the Serena Slam. No other current player, male or female can say they've done that. Heck, when was the last time a male player has held all 4 majors at once? The great Roger Federer hasn't, and heck Nadal hasn't even come close. Serena's the only one to have done it in the past 20+years.

KournikovaFan91
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:32 AM
That would be Steffi Graf. Did you forget about her? Serena needs to win 9 more slams (that should include couple of RGs to prove that her 2002 win wasn't a fluke), surpass her at the amount of weeks at #1 and win a Calendar Grand Slam. Good luck.

Everyone forgets Graf because she is European, I can't think on any other reason why she has been erased from the history books. :shrug:

Graf is GOAT she could win on any surface, Serena struggles on clay.

supergrunt
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:38 AM
the clay thing is a moot point because like federer, serena usually loses to the eventual champion

mckyle.
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:53 AM
to tie Navratilova and Evert which would unquestionably make her the best player of all-time?

http://i46.tinypic.com/k4f0hd.jpg

Baselinebasher
Jul 4th, 2010, 02:55 AM
Aaaah, Steffi Graf doesn't have the record for most GS single titles either, hate to burst your bubble. And what does a calendar grand slam have to do with anything? Serena has held all four major at the same time, to make the argument that they wern't all in the same calendar year is quite stupid. The point is to hold all four GSs at once, and she's done this. I believe the history books have it listed under the Serena Slam. No other current player, male or female can say they've done that. Heck, when was the last time a male player has held all 4 majors at once? The great Roger Federer hasn't, and heck Nadal hasn't even come close. Serena's the only one to have done it in the past 20+years.

You don't need to type in bold, I am not blind. Now, to address your points. First of all, Steffi DOES hold the slam record in open era. Most of Court's slams were AO, the least prestigious tournament of that time as evidenced by many all time greats not even attending it. So, yes Steffi does have more slams simply by virtue of playing in actual competitive era of tennis.

Second. Whether you like it or not, Steffi has done something that will probably never be repeated. 4 slams in one year. It's not "stupid" at all to bring up when it comes to GOAT discussion just like other almost impossible and impressive records (Borg's multiple Wimby/RG in the same year come to mind). The "Serena Slam" is a joke coined by Serena herself because of her failure to win the Calendar GS and her continued early exits at RG. I don't know anyone except the most blind of fans that will claim that "Serena Slam" is greater than CGS+olympic.

Third. I wish people on these boards would stop comparing men and women game. It's way more competitive, way more difficult to win a Grand Slam in men's game. The fact that even Federer couldn't hold 4 slams at once just proves how difficult it is (he lost to clay court GOAT in 3 finals and 1 semi during his peak). Serena dominated weak field for the last 2 years, hasn't ever encountered a true clay court specialist (because topspin doesn't exist in women game) and still failed at RG for the last 2 years. Men's game actually brought exciting finals, not straight set beatdowns by Serena of another mug or a headcase. Yesterday's Wimbledon final just further proves it.

Fourth. I thought this is GOAT discussion, so why are you bringing up "this generation" all the time. Yes, Serena is greatest of this generations, nobody is disputing the fact, however comparing her to the likes of Graf is absolutely laughable. She isn't even Navratilova's/Evert's league yet.

Temperenka
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:13 AM
She'll win 3 of the next 5.
And then 2 in 2012 and 1 in 2013 before retiring.

Leaving her at 19. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see Serena stick around until she is in a wheelchair trying to hit 100 major titles. :shrug:

The tour will be so screwed without her... she's the only one that is capable of bringing good tennis EVERY slam.

KournikovaFan91
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:16 AM
She will also probably win Olympic Singles Gold since it is also at Wimby.

LightWarrior
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:20 AM
She hasnt had nearly enough weeks or year end number 1's and has hardly any titles when compared to the leading ladies.

Nobody cares about that. Safina in the dumps maybe.

spartanfan
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:21 AM
You don't need to type in bold, I am not blind. Now, to address your points. First of all, Steffi DOES hold the slam record in open era. Most of Court's slams were AO, the least prestigious tournament of that time as evidenced by many all time greats not even attending it. So, yes Steffi does have more slams simply by virtue of playing in actual competitive era of tennis.

Second. Whether you like it or not, Steffi has done something that will probably never be repeated. 4 slams in one year. It's not "stupid" at all to bring up when it comes to GOAT discussion just like other almost impossible and impressive records (Borg's multiple Wimby/RG in the same year come to mind). The "Serena Slam" is a joke coined by Serena herself because of her failure to win the Calendar GS and her continued early exits at RG. I don't know anyone except the most blind of fans that will claim that "Serena Slam" is greater than CGS+olympic.

Third. I wish people on these boards would stop comparing men and women game. It's way more competitive, way more difficult to win a Grand Slam in men's game. The fact that even Federer couldn't hold 4 slams at once just proves how difficult it is (he lost to clay court GOAT in 3 finals and 1 semi during his peak). Serena dominated weak field for the last 2 years, hasn't ever encountered a true clay court specialist (because topspin doesn't exist in women game) and still failed at RG for the last 2 years. Men's game actually brought exciting finals, not straight set beatdowns by Serena of another mug or a headcase. Yesterday's Wimbledon final just further proves it.

Fourth. I thought this is GOAT discussion, so why are you bringing up "this generation" all the time. Yes, Serena is greatest of this generations, nobody is disputing the fact, however comparing her to the likes of Graf is absolutely laughable. She isn't even Navratilova's/Evert's league yet.
1. When you pay my bills then you can dictate to me how the fuck I can type.
2. My point about the Serena slam is that I find it stupid that people dismiss that accomplishment. There is no real different between a calendar year grand slam and what Serena accomplished thru her Serena Slam= Holding all 4 grand slam titles at once. No other current and active player alive has done that besides Serena. No other person, man or woman, in the past 20+ years has held all 4 Grand Slam titles at once besides Serena Williams. To say it doesn't count for anything shows your deep-rooted ignorance, jealousy and stupidity...just saying.:wavey:

KournikovaFan91
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:24 AM
The calendar slam suggests you played great from January till December. So you start and finish the season well.

Thats what gives it the extra weight.

Tennisstar86
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:25 AM
You don't need to type in bold, I am not blind. Now, to address your points. First of all, Steffi DOES hold the slam record in open era. Most of Court's slams were AO, the least prestigious tournament of that time as evidenced by many all time greats not even attending it. So, yes Steffi does have more slams simply by virtue of playing in actual competitive era of tennis.

Second. Whether you like it or not, Steffi has done something that will probably never be repeated. 4 slams in one year. It's not "stupid" at all to bring up when it comes to GOAT discussion just like other almost impossible and impressive records (Borg's multiple Wimby/RG in the same year come to mind). The "Serena Slam" is a joke coined by Serena herself because of her failure to win the Calendar GS and her continued early exits at RG. I don't know anyone except the most blind of fans that will claim that "Serena Slam" is greater than CGS+olympic.

Third. I wish people on these boards would stop comparing men and women game. It's way more competitive, way more difficult to win a Grand Slam in men's game. The fact that even Federer couldn't hold 4 slams at once just proves how difficult it is (he lost to clay court GOAT in 3 finals and 1 semi during his peak). Serena dominated weak field for the last 2 years, hasn't ever encountered a true clay court specialist (because topspin doesn't exist in women game) and still failed at RG for the last 2 years. Men's game actually brought exciting finals, not straight set beatdowns by Serena of another mug or a headcase. Yesterday's Wimbledon final just further proves it.

Fourth. I thought this is GOAT discussion, so why are you bringing up "this generation" all the time. Yes, Serena is greatest of this generations, nobody is disputing the fact, however comparing her to the likes of Graf is absolutely laughable. She isn't even Navratilova's/Evert's league yet.

Im sorry, you're post is full of bullshit. Courts are AO. Steffi's the tops. Same can be said for Graf. There were about 3 years when Steffi wasnt winning the slams cause the new player had come along...... Her number is clearly inflated because of it. 18 really is the magic number.... 4 slams in one year is stupid.... Its the same as 4 slams in a row that arguement is retarded... The AO use to be the last slam of the year before it got moved a couple months....Regardless of when its played 4 slams in a row is the same thing. The only thing Steffi has going for her is she won the gold medal.

However, add the fact that a big number of her slams have question marks AND the fact that she only managed to win 1 doubles slam...not for a lack of trying. No If Serena gets to 18, 24 will not matter.... especially when you consider the weak era steffi was in if you want to throw out these 2 years of weakness Serena has dominated saying it "doesnt" count.

Tennisstar86
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:27 AM
The calendar slam suggests you played great from January till December. So you start and finish the season well.

Thats what gives it the extra weight.

No, it doesnt... The calendar slam suggests you won 4 majors in a row.... Arguing you won 4 majors in a calender year does not mean to great from January till December... Serena Williams, and Rodger Federer are PRIME examples of players who can win slams and peace out for the rest of the tournaments.

Volcana
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:36 AM
to tie Navratilova and Evert which would unquestionably make her the best player of all-time?It certainly would NOT make her 'the best player of all-time', much less 'unquestionably'.

Have you forgotten Steffi Graf so soon? For that matter, why would Serena's career dwarf Nav's? Of Margaret Court? 18 gets her into the discussion, that's all.

Baselinebasher
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:44 AM
1. When you pay my bills then you can dictate to me how the fuck I can type.

Fair enough. Although bolding everything does make you look a bit "special".

2. My point about the Serena slam is that I find it stupid that people dismiss that accomplishment. There is no real different between a calendar year grand slam and what Serena accomplished thru her Serena Slam= Holding all 4 grand slam titles at once. No other current and active player alive has done that besides Serena.

Now to the actual post. Nobody is dismissing Serena's accomplishments. Yes, it's amazing. But my point is CGS > 4 slams won not in the same year. You can disagree of course and it's your opinion. But the history books will always put Steffi's CGS over "Serena Slam". There's just no comparison.

No other person, man or woman, in the past 20+ years has held all 4 Grand Slam titles at once besides Serena Williams. To say it doesn't count for anything shows your deep-rooted ignorance, jealousy and stupidity...just saying.:wavey:

Yes... and? I already admitted as much, try reading next time. But when it comes to GOAT discussion, fact is Serena is not on the same level as Graf and never will be. This isn't a question of hate/jealousy/whatever else, it's the truth. For the record I am not even a Graf fan, I can just look at things objectively unlike some of the fans posting here.

Paneru
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:56 AM
No doubt in my mind!

So long as she stays healthy, her game is on point, and her motivation is sky high!

Sir Stefwhit
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:09 AM
Why don't we save the Serena vs. Stefi, Martina, Evert debates for when Serena has retired, as it currently stands she's in striking distance.. Let's sit back and watch it unfold.

It's a different day but it's the same story from Serena detractors.

-First it was she's not as great as Hingis- then she surpased her.
-Then it was, "well she's good but she's not as good as Seles".- then she surpassed her
-Some then argued about her weeks at number one, citing that she's well behind one of her main rivals Justin- now she's about two months from passing her.
-It looks like the talk now about her being close to Navrat and Evert has people paranoid so to put an end to the, "Serena GOAT talk"- the latest thing to proclaim is that she'll never pass Stefi.

Marty-Dom
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:30 AM
Martina was 28+ years old when she won her 12th slam- Wimbledon 1985. Serena has won her 13th slam - Wimbledon at the same age. She is well on track to equal or better Martina's records.
Chris Evert had 14 slams before she turned 29. If Serena wins US Open this year- she will have equaled Chris Evert's slam accomplishments at the same age.
Seeing how Serena is fit and not beat up through a lot matches over the years- it's not inconceivable that she might equal or pass the two legends in slam count before she retires.

* Steffi Graf had 21 slams before age of 29.

tommyk75
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:25 AM
The Serena Slam is a great achievement (Martina N did it also at some point, I think), but to say that it is equal to the traditional Grand Slam is not really correct. With the traditional Slam, you MUST win the first Major of the year; otherwise, your chances are gone for the whole season, and you have to wait until the following year. With the Serena Slam, you have the chance to start the streak at any Major you play.

To illustrate my point, here are all the possible combinations for the Serena Slam (assuming the Majors retain their current order):
AUS - FRE - WIM - US; FRE - WIM - US - AUS; WIM - US - AUS - FRE ; US - AUS - FRE - WIM.

You compare that to the only combination with which to win the traditional G.Slam: AUS - FRE - WIM - US.

Obviously, your chances of winning the Serena Slam--as remarkable as it is--are going to be higher than winning the traditional Grand Slam.

ElusiveChanteuse
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:34 AM
Honestly. Yes. As long as she's healthy. There's still none that could constantly threaten her in slams yet just like Nadal against Federer (yes, even those supposedly up-and-coming great young players i.e. Sharapova, Ivanovic etc.). So I think 5 more can be still reachable.

Serendy Willick
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:37 AM
I'm one of the biggest Serena fans, I hope Serena gets 5 more. If she does however, Navaratilova and Evert will still be considered the greats because all of their other stats are untouchable.

Marty-Dom
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:42 AM
Less than 20 years before Serena Slam, Australian Open was played in December as the last slam of the year. So, Serena equaled a true Grand Slam effort of Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert era. According to your reasoning, the fact that she held all 4 simultaneously is no lesser feat than that of Martina Navratilova who won 6 in a row, but split them 3 in 1983 and 3 in 1984. Had the Australian Open been held in January, she would have had a true Grand Slam in 1984. But, apparently arbitrary calendar year counting trumps Martina's achievements.

DefyingGravity
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:10 AM
Serena will have to get to 20 for me to start saying she is the best of all time. To me, she'll always be one of the all-time greats.

kiwifan
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:45 AM
Fourth. I thought this is GOAT discussion, so why are you bringing up "this generation" all the time. Yes, Serena is greatest of this generations, nobody is disputing the fact, however comparing her to the likes of Graf is absolutely laughable. She isn't even Navratilova's/Evert's league yet.
Graf was a great player too...but her GOAT is with a "*"; she had nowhere near the competition Nav and Evert had with each other and Serena has had with the Belgians, her sister, Davenport, Hingis, Pova, etc...

...one litte girl shows up that can whip Graf everywhere except Grass and what happens? Gunther Parche.

How laughable is comparing Serena when she actually beat Graf waaaaaaaay back when she was a "lil ass gee" :armed::armed::armed:

Seles would have been up there with Nav and Evert. :sad:

They are all respectable All Time Greats...and when Serena's story is over...;):smoke:;)

Vartan
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:13 AM
I think she can.

Human Nature
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:56 AM
That would be Steffi Graf. Did you forget about her? Serena needs to win 9 more slams (that should include couple of RGs to prove that her 2002 win wasn't a fluke), surpass her at the amount of weeks at #1 and win a Calendar Grand Slam. Good luck.

Luky she was monica was stabbed ...serena wont never "benefit" from that , which even makes her accomplishements far more impressive than Graf . With Seles around , she wouldnt have passed 12 or 13 GS .

Pasta-Na
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:02 AM
not sure... juju might be back in her goat form after this year. :p

friendsita
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:05 AM
1. When you pay my bills then you can dictate to me how the fuck I can type.
2. My point about the Serena slam is that I find it stupid that people dismiss that accomplishment. There is no real different between a calendar year grand slam and what Serena accomplished thru her Serena Slam= Holding all 4 grand slam titles at once. No other current and active player alive has done that besides Serena. No other person, man or woman, in the past 20+ years has held all 4 Grand Slam titles at once besides Serena Williams. To say it doesn't count for anything shows your deep-rooted ignorance, jealousy and stupidity...just saying.:wavey:

THIS :worship:

Serenita
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:16 AM
1. When you pay my bills then you can dictate to me how the fuck I can type.
2. My point about the Serena slam is that I find it stupid that people dismiss that accomplishment. There is no real different between a calendar year grand slam and what Serena accomplished thru her Serena Slam= Holding all 4 grand slam titles at once. No other current and active player alive has done that besides Serena. No other person, man or woman, in the past 20+ years has held all 4 Grand Slam titles at once besides Serena Williams. To say it doesn't count for anything shows your deep-rooted ignorance, jealousy and stupidity...just saying.:wavey:

;)

nevetssllim
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:24 AM
Definitely. As things currently stand, nobody except Venus is within touching distance of her on grass and even Venus has come out second best in the past two years and while the competition is more testing on hard-courts, you'd still put your money on Serena more often than not.

Baselinebasher
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:28 AM
Graf was a great player too...but her GOAT is with a "*"; she had nowhere near the competition Nav and Evert had with each other and Serena has had with the Belgians, her sister, Davenport, Hingis, Pova, etc...

Aah... the good old "clown era" argument. Well, let's see. Hingis' career ended as soon as it bagan. She wasn't a factor after 1999. Davenport was a headcase, Sharapova is another one dimensional ball basher, Serena is obviously a better player. Henin was constantly injured and took a huge break when she was dominating and Clijsters... really, come on now. What about Serena's 2008-2010 where she faced mental giants like Safina and her aging sister in slams? What about 2010 Wimbledon? The list goes on.

...one litte girl shows up that can whip Graf everywhere except Grass and what happens? Gunther Parche.

Really? Graf had an equal H2H against Seles in slams before the stabbing incident. She didn't "get whipped" at all. In fact Seles got a brutal roasting at 1992 Wimbledon... her supposed peak and Graf's slump.

How laughable is comparing Serena when she actually beat Graf waaaaaaaay back when she was a "lil ass gee" :armed::armed::armed:

And Graf was old and unmotivated back then too. It goes both ways. Serena was a nobody to Graf back then eager to make a name for herself. Graf has done it all. Her GOAT status wasn't about to be questioned over this loss.

Seles would have been up there with Nav and Evert. :sad:

And if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather.

FrOzon
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:35 AM
There is no real different between a calendar year grand slam and what Serena accomplished thru her Serena Slam

Yes, it is, theoretically at least. There's a huge gap between US Open and Australian Open. E.g. for Nadal it would be easier to start in New York and finish in Wimbledon.

For many players (e.g. Henin) it would be better to start their run in Wimbledon because it's hard winning RG and Wimbledon back to back...

PolishLunatiq
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:42 AM
no problem for her I think;)

LeRoy.
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:45 AM
And if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather.

nope. she'd be your grandmother with balls.

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 11:14 AM
:lol: Easy there juniors...way too soon to start talking about Serena being the greatest ever. First let's see if she can at least tie Martina/ Chris. That would be an achievement already...and still I don't really like talk about greatest this, greatest that. But reaching 18, would certainly put her in the convo.

Anybody seen LDV lately? There was a time when he used to talk about how Serena would never enter the conversation, blah blah... haven't seen him around much since Serena started this climb.

irma
Jul 4th, 2010, 11:27 AM
:lol: Easy there juniors...way too soon to start talking about Serena being the greatest ever. First let's see if she can at least tie Martina/ Chris. That would be an achievement already...and still I don't really like talk about greatest this, greatest that. But reaching 18, would certainly put her in the convo.

Anybody seen LDV lately? There was a time when he used to talk about how Serena would never enter the conversation, blah blah... haven't seen him around much since Serena started this climb.

If you are able to beat the actual number 1 and 2 player in straight sets when you are not totally capable to play tennis yet (Serena in Indian Wells and Miami 99) then you already started your climb;)

Serieus people should stop acting like Serena was some scrubb when Steffi lost to her. She beat Davenport 6:4 6:2 in the same tournament. She was competive with the best players from 1997 on. That's not exactly a thing that puts her in a bad light, more the opposite!

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 11:40 AM
If you are able to beat the actual number 1 and 2 player in straight sets when you are not totally capable to play tennis yet (Serena in Indian Wells and Miami 99) then you already started your climb;)

Serieus people should stop acting like Serena was some scrubb when Steffi lost to her. She beat Davenport 6:4 6:2 in the same tournament. She was competive with the best players from 1997 on. That's not exactly a thing that puts her in a bad light, more the opposite!

Well, that's what the biggest Grafanatic always wanted us to believe. That Serena was just a recreational player, lucky that Steffi was old and unmotivated, blah blah..

That Serena would never be greater than Hana Mandlikova..:help:

roelc
Jul 4th, 2010, 11:52 AM
to win 5 more slams i suppose she ll need to stick around for 3 more year.
it s doable but i dont know what she will do if venus quits one day, and also you never know what will happen injury-wise. that being said, she doesn't need to be afraid of the "new generation"

2Black
Jul 4th, 2010, 11:59 AM
I think she can but I believe Serena when she says she's taking them one slam at a time & is just happy to be healthy & enjoying life.

As for the old calendar slam argument, it shows how sometimes we get so caught up in tradition that we miss reality. The gap between the Aussie & the French is the same as between the US Open & the Aussie. So I give no one player anymore credit than the other. In fact, Ive said it before, Martina's 6 in a row is the best accomplishment & I'm no where near a fan of her.

I loved Graf but Seles had me shaking in my boots. I don't know why other Graf fans won't admit it. :lol:

StephenUK
Jul 4th, 2010, 12:50 PM
Who can tell because injury and loss of form can come at any time. I would put money on her never adding to her Roland Garros collection whatever happens. But Serena does seem to own the Australian Open now, and it seems she has deposed her sister as Queen of Wimbledon, maybe for good. Let's see what happens at the US Open this year. The question then is whether age will also catch up with her before she overtakes them. One huge plus for Serena has is the disarray of her rivals; the rest of the top 10 are a mess, Justine's injury rules her out this year, no new stars coming up. Another question is whether the dethroned Wimbledon queen Venus will hang around to be Serena's bridesmaid/doubles partner on tour, as she won't win any more slams if Wimbledon is Serena's from now on.

kiwialicat
Jul 4th, 2010, 12:52 PM
pre-Wimbledon I would have said no, post-Wimbledon, I reckon she could do it. I don't think it's likely though, or that she will.

Helen Lawson
Jul 4th, 2010, 01:10 PM
I'd love it, but you guys are delusional, she's too old. OTOH, everyone else on the tour officially sucks so who knows.

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 01:58 PM
It's already good... she TOTALLY shut up all the haters who said she had no game, she was just another Madlikova, blah blah...that already is more than enough.

tenniswarehouse anybody?! :lol: F*ck ém!

tonybotz
Jul 4th, 2010, 03:49 PM
People don't mention Graf because her main rival was sidelined by a crazed Graf fan. Everyone knows if seles was around steffi would have won a lot less.

rrfnpump
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:00 PM
People don't mention Graf because her main rival was sidelined by a crazed Graf fan. Everyone knows if seles was around steffi would have won a lot less.

And Serena is playing in an era where Schiavone wins a slam and people like Pironkova, Kvitova and Wickmayer reach slam semis. :shrug:

22 majors >>> 18
Calender Golden Slam > Serena Slam

It's not that hard. ;)

spartanfan
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:07 PM
And Serena is playing in an era where Schiavone wins a slam and people like Pironkova, Kvitova and Wickmayer reach slam semis. :shrug:

22 majors >>> 18
Calender Golden Slam > Serena Slam

It's not that hard. ;)
Well I'm sure that there were some scrubs that made the semis as well when Graf was on her run as well. Heck even Conchita Martinez won Wimbledon during the Graf era. Things are no different now.
Calendar Grand Slam = Holding all 4 Grand Slams at the same time=Serena Grand Slam= Holding all 4 Grand Slams at the same time. There is no real practical difference.

Olórin
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:08 PM
And Serena is playing in an era where Schiavone wins a slam and people like Pironkova, Kvitova and Wickmayer reach slam semis.

Oh I see, so a depth of competition is worse than an era where the main contenders either get stabbed or become known for their choking more than their successes (Novotna, Sabatini). Yeah, see how easily things change depending on your own views :shrug:

rrfnpump
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:11 PM
There is no real practical difference.

Calender GOLDEN Slam.

Oh I see, so a depth of competition is worse than an era where the main contenders either get stabbed or become known for their choking more than their successes (Novotna, Sabatini). Yeah, see how easily things change depending on your own views :shrug:

You think that these days it's rather having more depth of competition than all players except Serena suck? :lol:

sweetpeas
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:11 PM
Yes!

Helen Lawson
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:13 PM
Actually one slam a year for the next 5 would do, I guess she could do it. There were some suspect semifinalists during the 90s like Meredith McGrath, remember that? Not sure there's a Schiavone like win on Graf's clock or not, maybe Majoli, but Majoli win Tier 1s.

spartanfan
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:14 PM
Actually one slam a year for the next 5 would do, I guess she could do it. There were some suspect semifinalists during the 90s like Meredith McGrath, remember that? Not sure there's a Schiavone like win on Graf's clock or not, maybe Majoli, but Majoli win Tier 1s.
Conchita Martinez?

Marty-Dom
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:15 PM
I'd love it, but you guys are delusional, she's too old. OTOH, everyone else on the tour officially sucks so who knows.

Actually when you look at Martina's and Chris' slam-winning time line, Serena is right on track. At Serena's current age (28+) Martina had 12 slams and Chris had 14. And, Serena doesn't play as much tennis as those two did, preserving her body for slams.

supergrunt
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:21 PM
It certainly would NOT make her 'the best player of all-time', much less 'unquestionably'.

Have you forgotten Steffi Graf so soon? For that matter, why would Serena's career dwarf Nav's? Of Margaret Court? 18 gets her into the discussion, that's all.

because this era is more competitive

Brooks.
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:21 PM
Fact: If Seles didn't get stabbed, Graf would not have 22 slams. 19 is the magic number, imo.

Coke Zero
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:28 PM
I don't see how Serena can be seen as GOAT unless she wins 23 singles slams.

People go on about Graf, and Seles being taken out of action, but who exactly has been Serena's rival since 2008 when Justine retired? Venus is 30 now and truth be told isn't a slam factor outside of Wimbledon. Sharapova got injured. Clijsters had a kid. She's won 5 of her 13 slams in the weakest era of all time. The depth at the top of the game is as shaky as ever, as evidenced by Schiavone winning a slam, and Clijsters coming back to win won in her first slam back (she only won 1 before that, in dozens of slams).

Navratilova and Evert had to contend with eachother and still won 18 slams a piece. They rarely lost a slam while they were playing and when they did it was to the likes of Mandlikova, BJK and Graf.

Serena SHOULD be up there now, and probably will end up around 18 anyway thanks to a lack of depth at the top of the game. But Serena from 2008 had no rival. Tell me one player who has played elite tennis from 2008, consistently bringing it?

rrfnpump
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Fact: If Seles didn't get stabbed, Graf would not have 22 slams. 19 is the magic number, imo.

Fact: If Clijsters and Henin hadn't retired in 2008 and 2009, Serena would not have 13 slams. 23 is the magic number, imo.

spartanfan
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:32 PM
Fact: If Clijsters and Henin hadn't retired in 2008 and 2009, Serena would not have 13 slams. 23 is the magic number, imo.

And you know this how? Did God himself wisper this in your ear?

Human Nature
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:32 PM
And Serena is playing in an era where Schiavone wins a slam and people like Pironkova, Kvitova and Wickmayer reach slam semis. :shrug:

22 majors >>> 18
Calender Golden Slam > Serena Slam

It's not that hard. ;)

And Conchita Martinez winning Wimbledon is .. better :help:

pierce85
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:32 PM
Fact: If Clijsters and Henin hadn't retired in 2008 and 2009, Serena would not have 13 slams. 23 is the magic number, imo.

Fact: The GOAT is european, her name is steffi graff and some people just can't accept it

Coke Zero
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:37 PM
And Conchita Martinez winning Wimbledon is .. better :help:

She won Wimbledon, made the finals at AO, RG and the SF twice at USO. Of course it's "better"

rrfnpump
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:38 PM
And you know this how? Did God himself wisper this in your ear?

Ok. How you know this:

Fact: If Seles didn't get stabbed, Graf would not have 22 slams. 19 is the magic number, imo.

?

Brooks.
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:41 PM
Fact: If Clijsters and Henin hadn't retired in 2008 and 2009, Serena would not have 13 slams. 23 is the magic number, imo.

:lol:

Clijsters was going to stop Serena from winning slams? Because she's been so good at the slams, outside of New York. :help: And Justine was getting her ass handed to her in 2008. She wasn't going to be stopping Serena from winning anything. Nice try though :)

Seles was winning all the slams, bar Wimbledon, before she got stabbed.

Kunal
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:47 PM
absolutely!

rrfnpump
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:50 PM
:lol:

And Justine was getting her ass handed to her in 2008. She wasn't going to be stopping Serena from winning anything. Nice try though :)

:confused:


Roland Garros Clay Jun 10 2007
QF Justine Henin(1) - Williams(8) 6-4 6-3

Wimbledon Grass Jul 8 2007
QF Justine Henin(1) - Williams(7) 6-4 3-6 6-3

US Open Hard Sep 9 2007
QF Justine Henin(1) - Williams(8) 7-6(3) 6-1


Are Williams fans really that delusional? :o

dsanders06
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:52 PM
I think she could get 5 more slams.

But that won't be enough to get her "in the discussion" to be the GOAT of the open era. To be "in the discussion", you have to be in first place in one key, tangible category - Graf is top in Slams won and weeks at #1, Navratilova is top in total titles won and longevity, Evert is top in match-winning %. If Serena is on 18 Slams, she will NOT be top in any category. Fact is, she needs to hit 23 Slams (including more FO's) to have even a vague case to be the GOAT, no if's or but's.

Human Nature
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:53 PM
:confused:


Roland Garros Clay Jun 10 2007
QF Justine Henin(1) - Williams(8) 6-4 6-3

Wimbledon Grass Jul 8 2007
QF Justine Henin(1) - Williams(7) 6-4 3-6 6-3

US Open Hard Sep 9 2007
QF Justine Henin(1) - Williams(8) 7-6(3) 6-1


Are Williams fans really that delusional? :o


serena vs henin 8/6 beaten the last AO , 13 /7 in number of GS . delusional juju fans .

dsanders06
Jul 4th, 2010, 04:56 PM
serena vs henin 8/6 beaten the last AO , 13 /7 in number of GS . delusional juju fans .

Well, by that logic, we need to remember Graf beat Seles virtually every time after Seles returned in 1995. So either we apply asterisks to Graf's post-93 Slams and Serena's post-07 Slams due to Seles's absence and Henin's absecene respectively, or we don't apply asterisks to either.

Human Nature
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:05 PM
Well, by that logic, we need to remember Graf beat Seles virtually every time after Seles returned in 1995. So either we apply asterisks to Graf's post-93 Slams and Serena's post-07 Slams due to Seles's absence and Henin's absecene respectively, or we don't apply asterisks to either.


Asterisks too when juju won her GS after serena got badly injured in 2003 , her sister murdered and her parents divorced . From that time she became the shadow of herself during years before deciding to involved again in 2007...

Plus Henin wasnt stabbed , she quited thats different...

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:33 PM
We'll see. I don't think she 's gonna reach 22. So many haters talk talk talk...if it was all about major titles then Court should be considered the greatest..but then it becomes: open era only and thus Graf. Naahhh, but Seles got stabbed...so Martina N because she played longer..blah blah.

Serena won her first in '99 and her most recent in '10. That's eleven years, not many players have done this.

Coke Zero
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:42 PM
Serena won her first in '99 and her most recent in '10. That's eleven years, not many players have done this.

And how does that make her the greatest ever?

BluSthil
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:52 PM
Unless the other 'up and coming' women tennis players step it up (strength training, 1st serve percentage), then Serena has a good shot at 18.

Serena has had injury problems, so that may be the determining factor in her longevity and success.

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 05:54 PM
And how does that make her the greatest ever?

For now nothing...but if she ever hits 18, then she'd probably have shown better longevity than even Navratilova herself. That's all, since Navratilova's selling card is longevity...

dsanders06
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:00 PM
For now nothing...but if she ever hits 18, then she'd probably have shown better longevity than even Navratilova herself. That's all, since Navratilova's selling card is longevity...

Keep dreaming. Navratilova made her first Slam final in 1975 and her last Slam final in 1994. Serena has a hell of a long way to go before she gets to 19 years at the top of the sport (especially since there were two years in the middle of her career where she wasn't at the top by any stretch of the imagination).

And Navratilova's main "selling card" is her GOAT haul of WTA titles.

Gdsimmons
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:00 PM
As long as she keeps doing what shes doing, I see now reason why she cant get to 18

Calypso
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:10 PM
Well, by that logic, we need to remember Graf beat Seles virtually every time after Seles returned in 1995. So either we apply asterisks to Graf's post-93 Slams and Serena's post-07 Slams due to Seles's absence and Henin's absecene respectively, or we don't apply asterisks to either.

:lol: Sorry, but there are no asterisks for Serena.

Henin QUIT of her own will, Seles was stabbed and forced out of the game by a Graf fan, leaving Steffi and the 7 dwarves:tape:. Incomparable!:help:.

And yes, she has a good chance to get 5 more slams before she's done.

But to be called the GOAT will probably require her to improve some records like weeks at No.1, win a few more RGs and clay court titles etc.

Whether she reaches 18 or not, she's had a terrific career and the GOAT debate will never be settled anyway (asterisks, non-open era slams won in Australia etc etc).

It would just be wonderful for her to come closer to the GS count of a different class of champion - those that reached the tennis stratosphere: Court, Graf, Navratilova, and Evert (yes, I still think Graf would have won more than 15 GS titles without the stabbing, but most likely far fewer than 22). Winning 18 will give her the chance to say she matched Martina and Chrissie's GS hauls, if not many other records;).

Matt01
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:14 PM
serena vs henin 8/6 beaten the last AO , 13 /7 in number of GS . delusional juju fans .


What's their H2H in Slams again? :scratch:

Donny
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:24 PM
What's their H2H in Slams again? :scratch:

Too bad Henin keeps bombing out in majors before she can meet Serena. Or maybe she's just tanking because she's scared?

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:30 PM
What's their H2H in Slams again? :scratch:

3-4 for Serena. Not too bad..:angel:

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 06:44 PM
Keep dreaming. Navratilova made her first Slam final in 1975 and her last Slam final in 1994. Serena has a hell of a long way to go before she gets to 19 years at the top of the sport (especially since there were two years in the middle of her career where she wasn't at the top by any stretch of the imagination).

And Navratilova's main "selling card" is her GOAT haul of WTA titles.

Okay..fair enough. But then I never get all this talk about Juju this, Juju that, then either..because if Serena's a nobody, then where does that leave Justine?

Heck there was a time when people wanted to discuss Justine being greater than Serena and that's when she had 10 majors already.

Calypso
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:06 PM
Firstly, Graf had to compete against Sabatini, Novotna, Martinez, Sanchez-Vicario, Capriati, Pierce and even to an extent Navratilova, even in Seles's absence. Any tennis commentator who knows anything about tennis history would agree that the strength of the sport at the very top was much better in the early 90s than it is now.

Secondly, your premise is completely irrelevant. If we're going to be delving into hypotheticals (which is completely pointless anyway), it matters not WHY a player was absent; if you think a key player's absence takes away from someone's achievements.

Your quoting of Sabatini, Novotna:lol:, Martinez, ASV as credible challengers to Graf's GS dominance is really hilarious. On the biggest stage, a GS final, there was only one player who could consistently stand up to Graf and repeatedly emerge victorious. ASV, bless her heart, tried as hard as she could, but she is no Seles. And neither is Sabatini, Novotna, or Martinez.

Steffi's nemesis in GS finals was Seles, who won 3 of 4 Slam finals against Graf before the stabbing, and showed no signs of easing her stranglehold on Graf and the rest of the tour by winning the 1993 A.O.

The 'depth' against which Graf played following Seles forced exit would be similar to if a young, upcoming Nadal was illegally taken out of the equation, and Federer won 25+ GS titles with Djokovic, Hewitt, Safin etc as major competitors:tape:. Good players? Yes. Capable of competently filling Nadal's shoes? NEVER. None of them was a champion of the calibre of Seles, with Martina N clearly over the hill.

And yes, it DOES matter the manner in which Seles and Henin left the tour. Seles was at the peak of her powers, dominating the majors, relegating her major rival to winning the occasional slam:tape:; while Henin had suffered her worst ever loss to her rival shortly before retiring, and was not in the frame of mind to compete at her previously high standards at the time she took a sabbatical.

Serena y Monica
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Lot's of things can happen but IF she stays healthy...YES! Will that make her the greatest...not sure. To me she may be tied w/Steffi. Though I think Serena has a more complete game Steffi's mental toughness rivals Serena's which maybe more important than Steffi's backhand deficit.

Coke Zero
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:17 PM
Your quoting of Sabatini, Novotna:lol:, Martinez, ASV as credible challengers to Graf's GS dominance is really hilarious.

As opposed to the challengers to Serena since 2008? Venus is 30 now, and hasn't challenged for a non-Wimbledon slam since 2002. Clijsters, a 1 time slam winner before retiring comes back to win a slam in her first attempt after giving birth. Henin has just come back, retooled game ineffective. Sharapova riddled with injuries. No one younger than Sharapova is looking a slam contender as of now.

If Graf's 22 slams are belittled because of a lack of depth at the elite level, than Serena may need even more slams. Again, I'm talking about her 5 slams post 2008.

Serena y Monica
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:17 PM
No one...but no one (exception being her fans) ever thought Justine was a better player than Serena. Many thought she was fitter and more focused than Serena at times...but I've never heard anyone (of tennis note) say Justine was a better player.

Mina Vagante
Jul 4th, 2010, 07:20 PM
No one...but no one (exception being her fans) ever thought Justine was a better player than Serena. Many thought she was fitter and more focused than Serena at times...but I've never heard anyone (of tennis note) say Justine was a better player.

:spit:

Matt01
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:11 PM
Too bad Henin keeps bombing out in majors before she can meet Serena. Or maybe she's just tanking because she's scared?


Like at the Australian Open? :scratch:

Gdsimmons
Jul 4th, 2010, 08:55 PM
If I am not mistaken, I believe the question was 'Do you honestly think that Serena will win 5 more slams?'.

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2010, 09:18 PM
Kinda agreed, Calypso...it was Juju's own choice to retire. what you wanted Serena to do? Stop playing?

But I'm sure Monica didn't want nobody stabbing her like that. dsanders, really..:cuckoo::silly:

CanIGetAWhat
Sep 7th, 2014, 11:15 PM
Serena wins her 18th slam to tie Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert.

http://media.tumblr.com/5a66d2e0f7b43b53b13840e4cb1309fc/tumblr_inline_n4t9hh3WZR1s21ptj.gif

PushingtoHeaven
Sep 7th, 2014, 11:17 PM
:spit:

Jonathan Halen
Sep 7th, 2014, 11:18 PM
Luckily she will never reach Margaret "greatest female player of all time" Court.

SocaBrainwash
Sep 7th, 2014, 11:27 PM
Luckily she will never reach Margaret "greatest female player of all time" Court.

I'm sure someone somewhere cares.

edificio
Sep 7th, 2014, 11:28 PM
I just voted no today, because it is so fun to vote on things that have already happened. :devil:

PushingtoHeaven
Sep 7th, 2014, 11:28 PM
Luckily she will never reach Margaret "greatest female player of all time" Court.

aaaaaaw, want a hug? :lol:

disco_rage
Sep 7th, 2014, 11:29 PM
She can win 5 more for sure, whether she actually does, who knows.

djwebby
Sep 7th, 2014, 11:30 PM
Luckily she will never reach Margaret "greatest female player of all time" Court.



See my sig.

doni1212
Sep 8th, 2014, 01:24 AM
One of only 8 who selected the last option, :worship:

Sammo
Sep 8th, 2014, 01:36 AM
to tie Navratilova and Evert which would unquestionably make her the best player of all-time?

Dumbest post I've read in this forum, congrats. Tying them makes her the greatest ever, okay. :spit: