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Mina Vagante
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:40 PM
Why does it annoy so many people that Serena has such a good serve. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a serve like Serena's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Serena is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her serve :lol:

Elwin.
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:41 PM
People always need something to complain about.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:41 PM
they want serena to df on mp so they can call her a choker who can't serve then complain about the lack of people who can serve on the wta :lol:

Gdsimmons
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:44 PM
Because her name is Serena Williams, and she is #1 and has 12 slams.

debby
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:46 PM
Because I want to see more rallies ;) I am complaining about her serve, yes, but it's not her fault, all credits to her for working hard on that serve. I would love Floptine could serve like she does :lol:
Actually, I am complaining about that most of girls can't read Serena's serve, and return it because of the power.

n1_and_uh_noone
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:47 PM
It is the only reliable shot in women's tennis at the moment. You've got to admire Serena for recognizing that she can dominate opponents merely by doing what she's always done well (i.e. serve), just a little better than ever, ala Federer/Sampras : hold serve easily and take a couple of risks on an odd return game here and there. Immense pressure on opponents every single serve game.

Stamp Paid
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:47 PM
Because it seems like an unfair advantage.
But its not her fault. The girls should work harder to study her serve patterns and get more returns in play.
deadddddd@Floptine :haha::haha:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:49 PM
Because I want to see more rallies ;) I am complaining about her serve, yes, but it's not her fault, all credits to her for working hard on that serve. I would love Floptine could serve like she does :lol:
Actually, I am complaining about that most of girls can't read Serena's serve, and return it because of the power.

floptine :sobbing:

Human Nature
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:50 PM
Because I want to see more rallies ;) I am complaining about her serve, yes, but it's not her fault, all credits to her for working hard on that serve. I would love Floptine could serve like she does :lol:
Actually, I am complaining about that most of girls can't read Serena's serve, and return it because of the power.

There is more precision than power in her serve otherwise it would have been a la Venus , serena is technically perfect on this shot .

Bruno71
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:52 PM
It's not like Serena doesn't outrally her opponents in 90%+ of her matches. Unlike Roddick.

jefrilibra
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:54 PM
Well most people here want Serena to be a choke-head like most of their favs! Otherwise what chance do their favs have?:lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:54 PM
his name is not roddick :rolleyes:


he's serena's mystery caucasian man

bandabou
Jun 29th, 2010, 07:58 PM
:lol: what can u do? 73 aces in 5 matches...so like 14 aces per match?! :eek: GOAT-serve, baby!!

Monirena Wiles
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:09 PM
But she's won three 6-0 sets, you don't do all that with just a serve??

Of all the players that made it past round 3, Serena leads in break point conversitions. Going in to todays match she was 19 of 30 with 63%!!! If she is just a serve how is that explained?

Other stats that show her return game is just fine:
-Second Serve points won Serena is #5 (behind Kanepi, Zvonereva, and Pironkivo)
-First Serve return points won she is in the top 10

Here are the Wimbledon Stats: http://www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/scores/extrastats/brk_pts_won_ws.html

azinna
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:14 PM
Na jealousy dey kill dem.

narutos
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:15 PM
Its ok yesterday I was a lil bit pissed off because she beat Maria but seriously I don't blame her and her serve I mean you can see all players mens and womens trying to hit aces when they hit their first serves the thing is Serena is the only one who is able to hit aces others players(mostly women) can't. Period.

Olórin
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:15 PM
Because they're bitter about their inadequacy in life.

mauresmofan
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:17 PM
Her serve is awesome - forget the power the placement does 80% of the damage and the fluidity of the stroke is fantastic - I don't know a lot of players on the mens side with a better motion or serve than hers.

Bijoux0021
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:19 PM
Because they're bitter about their inadequacy in life.
:worship:

mauresmofan
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:21 PM
Does anyone know how many aces Serena has hit in total in previous Wimbledons because I think this is the best I've seen her serve - unlike other years she's not forcing the serve and just letting the motion do all the damage on a regular basis.

bbjpa
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:22 PM
Because it's simply just boring, there's no game when she serve a 1st serve in

Marionated
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:24 PM
Because players who play more aesthetically pleasing tennis on the surface can't beat her because they don't posess an Isner serve like she does. Sorry, but imo it's boring to watch.

We are all entitled to our opinions, and if Serena fans enjoy watching her win by cracking down Aces and unreturnable serves, that's fine, but not everyone does.

bandabou
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:30 PM
:haha: Aaaaahhh...so now it isn't aesthetically pleasing?! People..are just so funny.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:33 PM
serena compared to isner just because she can serve :spit:

Human Nature
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:35 PM
Because players who play more aesthetically pleasing tennis on the surface can't beat her because they don't posess an Isner serve like she does. Sorry, but imo it's boring to watch.

We are all entitled to our opinions, and if Serena fans enjoy watching her win by cracking down Aces and unreturnable serves, that's fine, but not everyone does.

And you think marion Bartoli is part of those more "aesthetical " players..

sweetpeas
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:42 PM
Because I want to see more rallies




Then show them how to do it?Silly.

kiwifan
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:47 PM
Why does it annoy so many people that Serena has such a good serve. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a serve like Serena's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Serena is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her serve :lol:

I think it is because they're jealous insecure dorks.*

"Serena's serve puts too much pressure on her opponents to hold serve!!!" :shout:



*There could be other reasons to complain about an athlete doing something very well but the above seems to be the number one answer on the board. :cool:

darrinbaker00
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:55 PM
I think it is because they're jealous insecure dorks.*

"Serena's serve puts too much pressure on her opponents to hold serve!!!" :shout:



*There could be other reasons to complain about an athlete doing something very well but the above seems to be the number one answer on the board. :cool:
It's like they're saying, "Serena's winning points with something other than baseline groundstroke winners. Isn't that against WTA rules?"

JN
Jun 29th, 2010, 08:59 PM
Because players who play more aesthetically pleasing tennis on the surface can't beat her because they don't posess an Isner serve like she does. Sorry, but imo it's boring to watch.

Then find a new sport. I'd suggest boxing, but the 1st round KOs might piss you off. :boxing:

moby
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:04 PM
I assumed many people here became WTA and not ATP fans because of the boring serve fests in the ATP in the 90s. I know I did.
So the complaints about Serena's dominant serves are not that surprising.

I wish Justine could serve like that though.

Marionated
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:05 PM
And you think marion Bartoli is part of those more "aesthetical " players..

I prefer watching her tennis, yes.

Nicolás89
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:05 PM
Why does it annoy so many people that Serena has such a good serve. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a serve like Serena's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Serena is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her serve :lol:

Any quotes? Or you just like to stir shit?

Vlover
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:09 PM
Pure frustration from the haters part!:lol: Serena's all round game is very solid in general. Her footwork is what gets her in trouble most of the time. The opponents should be happy when other parts of her game are off because that is the only time they stand a chance because when all the components come together consider yourself lucky if you win 3 games.:lol:

It is just hysterical to see the :baby: throwing their usual tantrums when all their "crowned challengers" failed. Every player gets their fair chances at serve and for those who don't think it is important to put the effort in is their problem. As Jonny Mc said, Serena is not only 5'11 therefore she doesn't have the advantage of height but kudos to her for her precision and placement. In any case Serena is only responsible for her service games therefore why doesn't the opponents use their "great" all round games to defeat her when they get they have the chance to serve. Is not like she plays a lot of tie break sets.:rolleyes:

Anyway anyone loves the Sting music that plays on ESPN to introduce Serena's matches? :music:"every thing she does is magic":music: I absolutely loves it!

bridgepea
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:12 PM
I play tennis and I wish I was able to step up to the line every single time and have so much confidence in that money shot every single time I step up to the line. Amazing. And it is not about power. It is about placement. In her match today against Na the average on her first serves was about 110 mph, while Na's average first serve was 98mph. The difference was in placement.

Serena hit every single spot in that service box whilst Na went out wide on the forehand side in the deuce court and to the backhand side in the ad court. On the rare occassions that she went up the middle on either the ad or deuce side of the court, she made a double fault or she drew an error from Serena on the return. Those were few and far between.

The Witch-king
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:13 PM
Why does it annoy so many people that Serena has such a good serve. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a serve like Serena's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Serena is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her serve :lol:

It's frustrating for people who want her to lose to see her coming up with a winning shot time and time again.

Plus it's not the most exciting tennis.

The Witch-king
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:15 PM
I think it is because they're jealous insecure dorks.*

"Serena's serve puts too much pressure on her opponents to hold serve!!!" :shout:



did someone actually say that??:help::lol:

doooma6816
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Because players who play more aesthetically pleasing tennis on the surface can't beat her because they don't posess an Isner serve like she does. Sorry, but imo it's boring to watch.

We are all entitled to our opinions, and if Serena fans enjoy watching her win by cracking down Aces and unreturnable serves, that's fine, but not everyone does.

I agree a little. I think some player can beat her more time if she not serve as good. But it is her the biggest weapon and I dont complain about it.

DOUBLEFIST
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:22 PM
Because it's simply just boring, there's no game when she serve a 1st serve in
Blame the other girls. Don't fault Serena for DOING her job. Fault the others for NOT doing theirs. :shrug:

tennisfan5
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:22 PM
I think it's because she can use it to compensate for areas of her game that sometimes are not going well (groundstrokes/return/footwork). So while her opponent might be playing "better" overall, serena still manages to stay on serve and in the match. But you still have to give props to Serena for making her serve into such a weapon.

tea
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:30 PM
I thought they have to serve well to do well at Wimbledon. Complaining about efficient serve on grass is like complaining about the game of tennis in general.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:33 PM
Any quotes? Or you just like to stir shit?

you mean the recent posts and threads aren't enough for you?

"is serena becoming karlovic" by mashafaaaaan for example

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:36 PM
I agree a little. I think some player can beat her more time if she not serve as good. But it is her the biggest weapon and I dont complain about it.

serena has had matches where her serve was off and guess what had to bail her out??

and no one has still answered my question about how she is able to break serve if it's only her serve that is her weapon..surely she doesn't only play tbs...and she's won sets 6-0 so clearly something else must be happening since she doesn't serve 6 times in a set while her opponent doesn't serve at all

new-york
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:39 PM
Imagine as a player.

You work your ass off to get an opportunity and she kills you with three aces in a row.

LOL.

People tends to forget that it's a very hard shot to hit and that Serena is doing great with it. She's not even that tall.

RenaSlam.
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:41 PM
Step.

The Witch-king
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:42 PM
serena has had matches where her serve was off and guess what had to bail her out??

and no one has still answered my question about how she is able to break serve if it's only her serve that is her weapon..surely she doesn't only play tbs...and she's won sets 6-0 so clearly something else must be happening since she doesn't serve 6 times in a set while her opponent doesn't serve at all

SHE WUZ PUTTING TOO MUCH PRESSURE ON THEM TO HOLD SERvE!!!

http://surfme.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/raven-symone-photoshoot-3.jpg

Marionated
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:43 PM
serena has had matches where her serve was off and guess what had to bail her out??

and no one has still answered my question about how she is able to break serve if it's only her serve that is her weapon..surely she doesn't only play tbs...and she's won sets 6-0 so clearly something else must be happening since she doesn't serve 6 times in a set while her opponent doesn't serve at all

Of course her serve isn't her only weapon. She has a great return of serve, very good groundstrokes and movement, she is a competent volleyer, and she is very mentally tough.

But I think even you should be able to admit that her serve has helped her an awful lot this tournament, more than usual. She hasn't played great from the baseline in any of the matches I've seen.

I've seen many matches of her where, when her serve is not at its normal level, she struggles a lot- see her Australian open QF vs Jankovic a few years back, and her QF vs Azarenka this until she got her serve firing.

It's not like New-York said: imagine a player plays 3 good points to get to 0-40 on Serena's serve, then she hits 3 aces in a row. Understandably, some tennis fans don't enjoy to watch that.

The Witch-king
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:44 PM
Imagine if there were two Rena's playing against each other!! :rolls:
matches would be 76 67 99-97

LAWD HAVE MESSI
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc19/mattchew03ontd/whitney-houston-slide.jpg

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:46 PM
Of course her serve isn't her only weapon. She has a great return of serve, very good groundstrokes and movement, she is a competent volleyer, and she is very mentally tough.

But I think even you should be able to admit that her serve has helped her an awful lot this tournament, more than usual. She hasn't played great from the baseline in any of the matches I've seen.

I've seen many matches of her where, when her serve is not at its normal level, she struggles a lot- see her Australian open QF vs Jankovic a few years back, and her QF vs Azarenka this until she got her serve firing.

in those matches her whole game was off and then in the vika match her whole game started firing so no she's not in trouble just because her serve is off

AO 09 her serve was off until 3rd set of the kuzzy QF...how'd she get there if she can't win without a serve

and since when is it bad to have your serve help you?? IT'S A TENNIS SHOT FFS! :rolls: people act like she's breaking rules

"you must be able to be broken or else"

The Witch-king
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:49 PM
Of course her serve isn't her only weapon. She has a great return of serve, very good groundstrokes and movement, she is a competent volleyer, and she is very mentally tough.

But I think even you should be able to admit that her serve has helped her an awful lot this tournament, more than usual. She hasn't played great from the baseline in any of the matches I've seen.

I've seen many matches of her where, when her serve is not at its normal level, she struggles a lot- see her Australian open QF vs Jankovic a few years back, and her QF vs Azarenka this until she got her serve firing.

Well obviously if the foundation of your game is not working the rest will be off. Not only does Serena's serve set up the types of rallies that she likes to play (that her game is designed around) it also gives her the confidence to go for her shots more in her return game because she knows no matter what she'll be able to hold serve.

The same applies to any other player and their strengths. We all know what happened to Jankovic without her movement, Sharapova without her serve and consistency etc etc

Marionated
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:50 PM
in those matches her whole game was off and then in the vika match her whole game started firing so no she's not in trouble just because her serve is off

AO 09 her serve was off until 3rd set of the kuzzy QF...how'd she get there if she can't win without a serve

and since when is it bad to have your serve help you?? IT'S A TENNIS SHOT FFS! :rolls: people act like she's breaking rules

"you must be able to be broken or else"

Once question though: would you prefer to watch 3 rallies that all end in winners or watch a player serve 3 aces?

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:55 PM
Once question though: would you prefer to watch 3 rallies that all end in winners or watch a player serve 3 aces?

3 aces are winners

a big serve, return and easy put away on 3 points counts as a rally

once a match doesn't get like isner/mahut i'm fine...and since serena's never go that route i'm quite fine...

would you rather players unable to serve, serve 21 dfs and lose??

Marionated
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:58 PM
3 aces are winners

a big serve, return and easy put away on 3 points counts as a rally

once a match doesn't get like isner/mahut i'm fine...and since serena's never go that route i'm quite fine...

would you rather players unable to serve, serve 21 dfs and lose??

Fine. But they are not excting rallies.

The third set of the French open QF VS Sam was a serve fest until Sam broke through.

Of course not.

supergrunt
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:59 PM
the other girls need to step up their games to compete with serena's serve... on the atp everyone has a good serve

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 29th, 2010, 09:59 PM
you get rallies with serena on her opponents serve or even on her serve...tell her opponents step up their serve then but don't complain about the woman with the serve

2Black
Jun 29th, 2010, 10:12 PM
in those matches her whole game was off and then in the vika match her whole game started firing so no she's not in trouble just because her serve is off

AO 09 her serve was off until 3rd set of the kuzzy QF...how'd she get there if she can't win without a serve

and since when is it bad to have your serve help you?? IT'S A TENNIS SHOT FFS! :rolls: people act like she's breaking rules

"you must be able to be broken or else"

:lol: I totally agree. These people on this thread are str8t hilarious.

Monirena Wiles
Jun 29th, 2010, 10:16 PM
Who care if Serena's haters don't find her kind of tennis exciting. Why would she care to entertain you anyway. Her fans love every mouth watering ace and no one said anything bad when Pete Sampras was acing everybody left and right. The worse thing he is called is the second greatest player of all time. Serena and Pete Sampras are two good examples, not Isner and other one-trick ponies.

viele
Jun 29th, 2010, 10:17 PM
Once question though: would you prefer to watch 3 rallies that all end in winners or watch a player serve 3 aces?

I prefer to see to fit, confident, and competitive players use whatever talents they have to win points and not choke when things get tight.

I like to watch Serena play because more often than not in the big matches she's playing to win and doesn't look like a scared little school girl. If her opponents can't handle what she's bringing, that's their fault.

RenaSlam.
Jun 29th, 2010, 10:18 PM
People are complaining because most of their faves' serves are absolute crap.

viele
Jun 29th, 2010, 10:20 PM
Fine. But they are not excting rallies.

The third set of the French open QF VS Sam was a serve fest until Sam broke through.

Of course not.

Soooo.....what would you have done to any player that has a big serve? Should they not be allowed to serve big just because their opponents can't handle it and you find it boring?

mykarma
Jun 29th, 2010, 10:20 PM
Because players who play more aesthetically pleasing tennis on the surface can't beat her because they don't posess an Isner serve like she does. Sorry, but imo it's boring to watch.

We are all entitled to our opinions, and if Serena fans enjoy watching her win by cracking down Aces and unreturnable serves, that's fine, but not everyone does.
And it wins her slams.

Gdsimmons
Jun 29th, 2010, 10:22 PM
Who care if Serena's haters don't find her kind of tennis exciting. Why would she care to entertain you anyway. Her fans love every mouth watering ace and no one said anything bad when Pete Sampras was acing everybody left and right. The worse thing he is called is the second greatest player of all time. Serena and Pete Sampras are two good examples, not Isner and other one-trick ponies.

Thank you!! Nobody complained when Pete did it, but when Serena does it we have to call the national guard or something. Please :rolleyes::rolleyes:
People are complaining because most of their faves' serves are absolute crap.

:worship::worship:

edificio
Jun 29th, 2010, 11:05 PM
People are complaining because most of their faves' serves are absolute crap.

Yep. Sour grapes...ummmm, tasty.

bandabou
Jun 29th, 2010, 11:14 PM
:haha: :rolls: The funny thing is that Serena isn't even THAT tall. Heck...Maria, Venus, Ana, etc are all taller than Serena.

it's the TECHNIQUE baby! Go watch some tapes..learn how the pros do it!

Diesel
Jun 29th, 2010, 11:20 PM
I prefer to see to fit, confident, and competitive players use whatever talents they have to win points and not choke when things get tight.

I like to watch Serena play because more often than not in the big matches she's playing to win and doesn't look like a scared little school girl. If her opponents can't handle what she's bringing, that's their fault.

:worship:

As it is, some of these fans are scared of her with respect to their favorites. Because of this fear, they hate because they have nothing else.

Stamp Paid
Jun 29th, 2010, 11:51 PM
So now Serena plays boring tennis. :lol:

The Dawntreader
Jun 30th, 2010, 12:14 AM
Serena's serve is THE stroke in tennis right now, and one of the most enviable shots of the 21st century.

People should be complaining about the inability of players to return her serve, if we're going to complain. It's her strength and will continue to accentuate it as she has for the past decade or so. I don't know why the hysteria has descended now:lol:

Nicolás89
Jun 30th, 2010, 12:17 AM
you mean the recent posts and threads aren't enough for you?

"is serena becoming karlovic" by mashafaaaaan for example

Yes I read that thread and it was more like a compliment. Any others?

Midnight_Robber
Jun 30th, 2010, 12:46 AM
I think Serena's serve is absolutely stupendous and better than it's ever been - but I do like a fleet-footed, deep ground game as well to vary the play. I don't like it when Serena gets static and stationary though she is one of the few players who can hit the ball without really moving her feet. Things is, despite the fact that her ground game isn't what it was at her peak, it's still enough to get the job done and that's what matters. But there have always been other players that I've preferred to watch over her and that was even at the height of her game. (Never been in love with her movement for example and I tend to gravitate towards players who move well and with grace, which is why I find Venus' flat feet and deteriorating (?) movement so distressing because it's always been one of the attractions for me.) But yeah, I agree that it's funny that people would complain about her serve of all things, when it's damned impressive.

And for the record, I have always found Pete Sampras' tennis completely boring though he certainly had many more skills beyond his serve and I always avoided watching him.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 30th, 2010, 12:50 AM
Yes I read that thread and it was more like a compliment. Any others?

:lol: reaching


mashafaan created that thread because he thought serena beat maria with a serve only...as he stated many times in the result thread...you mean to tell me he'd change from saying serena would lose without her serve to complimenting her in the space of 2 minutes?

VishaalMaria
Jun 30th, 2010, 12:52 AM
Because it's her serve that prevents most players from beating her.

davidmario
Jun 30th, 2010, 01:32 AM
Because she is the only woman on earth that knows how to serve like a man. People don't wanna realize that.

gmokb
Jun 30th, 2010, 01:41 AM
Why does it annoy so many people that Serena has such a good serve. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a serve like Serena's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Serena is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her serve :lol:

AMEN:worship::worship:

Donny
Jun 30th, 2010, 01:51 AM
Yes I read that thread and it was more like a compliment. Any others?

Fucking Li Na :lol: What a l00ser

Serena's going to win Wimbledon playing like Andy Roddick :happy:


When ya serve like a man, its gonna be hard to beat ya!

Whenever SERVRena got into touble...BOOM! ACE! SCOWL! :lol:

Real fair :rolleyes:

Serena should go to men's tour. That's what she serves like.

serena is nothing without serve, and serve is the cheapest weapon in tennis, makes me want to puke, she is the least asethetially and technically pleasing player, does nothing for the game except hog the slams

Should I keep going?

matty
Jun 30th, 2010, 02:01 AM
Because her name is Serena Williams, and she is #1 and has 12 slams.

Why does it annoy so many people that Serena has such a good serve. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a serve like Serena's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Serena is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her serve :lol:

they want serena to df on mp so they can call her a choker who can't serve then complain about the lack of people who can serve on the wta :lol:

:lol: right on the money--people act like serving isn't part of the game--just jealous of her, I suppose.

matty
Jun 30th, 2010, 02:05 AM
Because it's simply just boring, there's no game when she serve a 1st serve in

perfect service motion = not boring

davidmario
Jun 30th, 2010, 02:15 AM
can we please close this irrelevant thread? how can people complain about sth that is just pure greatness?

kickserve
Jun 30th, 2010, 04:09 AM
OMG guys, I can't stand Steffi's footwork. She's always using it to run around her backhand and dictate play with her forehand. It's not fair, it's practically cheating. Why can't she gain some weight and be slower so we can attack her backhand?

winone23
Jun 30th, 2010, 04:24 AM
Serena's serve is GOAT, why is this thread alive.

Vikapower
Jun 30th, 2010, 04:33 AM
The girls in front of Serena just doesn't know how to return serve. Serena doesn't serve well and that's a TF misconception. The reasons why ?

Firstwhy don't they just completely back up instead of wanting to take the first serves so early ? You get time by taking steps further back. WTA is the only ridiculous place where I see players wanting to take a 121mph serve in half volley. Even Serena does that and then she complains about her returns of serve. :rolleyes:

Second why want to return 99.9% of the first serves flat where as a continental grip blocking the serve in with a deep chip would at least help you get rallies and by doing so the server gets frustrated because there's nothing worst for a good server to continously see their first serves coming back. :rolleyes:

Third backing up devellops a pattern in which the server seeing you so far back tends to want to open up the court by serving wide anticipating that shot can have you get into rallies more often than not. :rolleyes:

The last and not the least has our girls ever heard in their life that moving around during a person's service motion especially when they're serving good helps ? :rolleyes: Instead of just standing there like dumbs hopping around, back, fourth, down the T, outwide etc... or constantly changing positions on the return of serve can participate in disrupting one's rhythm. :rolleyes:

Yes I'm saying it : Serena doesn't serve well it's just the girls really need some brains at times. I'm sure ace machine Serena wouldn't have the same ace ratio against a guy like Andy Murray. :tape:

Sp!ffy
Jun 30th, 2010, 04:35 AM
I wish Sharapova could serve like that.....

AcesHigh
Jun 30th, 2010, 04:47 AM
....how many people are complaining?

moby
Jun 30th, 2010, 04:51 AM
The girls in front of Serena just doesn't know how to return serve. Serena doesn't serve well and that's a TF misconception. The reasons why ?Serena's placement and disguise on her serve is great. She can hit different serves from the same toss. I do agree that most girls could do better at returning her serve, but it doesn't change the fact that she has the GOAT serve.

Volcana
Jun 30th, 2010, 04:52 AM
Why does it annoy so many people that Serena has such a good serve. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.The complaint, per se, isn't with Serena's seve. It's with the way they 'tuned' the grass this year. If you have a serve that can exploit it, this suface is VERY ace-friendly. Most women don;t have that kind of serve. (Most men don't, either.)

Recall the Isner-Mahut marathon. There were only THREE breaks of serve in that match. Mahut had over 100 aces and lost.

There are other players who's serves work well on this surface. But they aren't as good in the other aspects of the game as Serena. And Serena has always been able to survive a hail of UEs in a way Venus can't, so even when she'soff, if she wants to win enough, she can usually find a way.

Simply put, Serena's serve, on this surface, makes her matches a bit too much like men's tennis.

tennisbum79
Jun 30th, 2010, 05:18 AM
....how many people are complaining?
From another thread yesterday
http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=413419

I have a proposition : every woman player who hits a serve more than 200km/h should play on ATP

She could be the best players in the world but I find Serena's game boring as hell when she serve , and without it I affirm this : she would be nothing

This. I hope we never reach in a stage where women's game will only be ace, ace, ace, service winner, ace, ace if so WTA will just be a pale copy of ATP only with way more variety and shot arsenal for the men.
It's such a boring game.
Daily tactics sessions one motto: Let the beast go !
serena is nothing without serve, and serve is the cheapest weapon in tennis, makes me want to puke, she is the least asethetially and technically pleasing player, does nothing for the game except hog the slams


And here is my reponse:

Let me understand this
Some Maria fans have been complaining the last 3 years that her serve has deserted her.
Now that she is serving better, instead of encouraging her to keep improving, they are attacking the best sever in the game that everyone is trying to emulate because she serve so well.

WS Sisters, so many battles to fight, so many people with diverse demand to satisfy.

If the play well it is not good for the game
If they serve well, crucial on grass, then their matches become boring because it is not fair to the hapless opponent
If they strive to get to the final while ranked/seeded 1 & 2, then it is bad for the game
If they play few tournaments and win, it is because they rest while other girls are killing themselves
If they play a little more and win, it is not good for the game for them to win everything because the fans will be bored of seeing the same people win all he timeJust what is wrong with people?


This is nothing new, here is a precedent about Jack Johnson, a black American heavy weight boxer.

Johnson's boxing style was very distinctive. He developed a more patient approach than was customary in that day: playing defensively, waiting for a mistake, and then capitalizing on it. Johnson always began a bout cautiously, slowly building up over the rounds into a more aggressive fighter. He often fought to punish his opponents rather than knock them out, endlessly avoiding their blows and striking with swift counters. He always gave the impression of having much more to offer and, if pushed, he could punch powerfully.

Johnson's style was very effective, but it was criticized in the press as being cowardly and devious. By contrast, World Heavyweight Champion "Gentleman" Jim Corbett (http://www.tennisforum.com/wiki/James_J._Corbett), who was white, had used many of the same techniques a decade earlier, and was praised by the press as "the cleverest man in boxing".[ (http://www.tennisforum.com/#cite_note-Burns-0)
.....

Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Johnson_(boxer)

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 05:22 AM
And she hasn't even WON the tourney yet...people already crying. :lol:

Mrs. Peel
Jun 30th, 2010, 05:31 AM
can we please close this irrelevant thread? how can people complain about sth that is just pure greatness?

The best women's serve ever. Historic serving.

Stamp Paid
Jun 30th, 2010, 05:32 AM
....how many people are complaining?About half the board, Stevie.

AcesHigh
Jun 30th, 2010, 05:38 AM
About half the board, Stevie.

Only ppl quoted were ppl I don't know :shrug: And only a few posts. I'm sure that doesn't constitute half the board.

It's stupid to complain about the greatest serve ever.

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 07:07 AM
Viva la serveee!!! :bounce:

#1SteffiGraf#1
Jun 30th, 2010, 07:16 AM
Without her serve she is mediocre. Just like her sister.

Serena = serve, serve, serve, run, run, run...no beauty. I'll be glad when she is done playing.

Aaron.
Jun 30th, 2010, 07:17 AM
^^ :weirdo:

Rafito.
Jun 30th, 2010, 07:23 AM
Without her serve she is mediocre. Just like her sister.

Serena = serve, serve, serve, run, run, run...no beauty. I'll be glad when she is done playing.

:worship:

Stamp Paid
Jun 30th, 2010, 07:53 AM
:worship:I really hope thats sarcasm coming from you :lol:

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 08:13 AM
Without her serve she is mediocre. Just like her sister.

Serena = serve, serve, serve, run, run, run...no beauty. I'll be glad when she is done playing.

:haha: How many majors would Steffi have won without her forehand? Wanna take a guess?

OneSlamWonder
Jun 30th, 2010, 08:34 AM
Maybe serve is not attractive weapon like forehand, backhand etc. but it's still her weapon. So she shouldn't use it? LOL. She is multiple champion because she can always rely on something else if something is not working atm. Many people dislike MJMS style of play also. I do, and I hate play based on serve but we should be reasonable about it. That is what player does as one of the best in world plus... Serena is much more than serve!

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:05 AM
Guys just imagine Serena without her powerful serve to help her in the decisive moments in matches!!Would she win the match with her other parts of the game NOOO!!Thats why everyone is complaining about her serve!!cause thats the only reason she is winning matches these days!!Sharapova without her serve during the most part of the last year season and still managed to win a lot of Matches!!I don't think Serena would do so!!

Thanx4nothin
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:13 AM
Guys just imagine Serena without her powerful serve to help her in the decisive moments in matches!!Would she win the match with her other parts of the game NOOO!!Thats why everyone is complaining about her serve!!cause thats the only reason she is winning matches these days!!Sharapova without her serve during the most part of the last year season and still managed to win a lot of Matches!!I don't think Serena would do so!!

Lmao did you forget Serena went 4-0 against Maria in the final of the YEC the year Maria won Wimbledon, when she was practically serving underarm. Serena is the best player of her generation, she would find a way.

How many slams would graf have won without her forehand? Navs without her serve-volley?

You people are pathetic.

Maria isn't even in Serena's stratosphere, surely you have more important things to worry about, like, with serena's serve could Maria beat a top 40 player? :tape:

Slutiana
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:14 AM
Maybe serve is not attractive weapon like forehand, backhand etc. but it's still her weapon. So she shouldn't use it? LOL. She is multiple champion because she can always rely on something else if something is not working atm. Many people dislike MJMS style of play also. I do, and I hate play based on serve but we should be reasonable about it. That is what player does as one of the best in world plus... Serena is much more than serve!
Exactly. 100% true.

All these people wouldn't be bitching if their favourite served like her.

RG Freak
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:23 AM
Maybe because women's tennis shouldn't be dominated by a serve like this.
BTW I'm not complaining. Right now it's the best shot in the women's game, and other players can't do much against it.

Polikarpov
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:36 AM
Because their faves can't return it. Instead of complaining about Serena's serve, maybe people should complain about players not being able to execute a block, chip, or a slice return to at least keep the ball in play. Or how many girls are so adamant at returning Serena's serve on the baseline. When you're facing a big server, you don't stand on the baseline -- you move back a few feet to give yourself more reaction time even if it's just for a few nanoseconds. Do you see the men returning Karlovic's serve on the baseline?

It's amazing to watch someone like Serena who can serve her way out of a hole. Just look at Federer and think of how many times his serve bailed him out of trouble. And it's stupid to say that without her serve, Serena would be nothing. She's an incredible athlete and is sound from all parts of the court. And it's not as if that serve fell from the heavens and landed on her lap. She has that serve right now because of talent, great technique, and practice. She worked hard for that, and is now reaping its benefits.

And also, not only does a great serve get you free points, but it puts tremendous pressure on your opponent to hold their own. You get your opponents thinking "I have to hold my serve or this match is over." Just look at Sharapova and Li Na.

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Lmao did you forget Serena went 4-0 against Maria in the final of the YEC the year Maria won Wimbledon, when she was practically serving underarm. Serena is the best player of her generation, she would find a way.

How many slams would graf have won without her forehand? Navs without her serve-volley?

You people are pathetic.

Maria isn't even in Serena's stratosphere, surely you have more important things to worry about, like, with serena's serve could Maria beat a top 40 player? :tape:

So you are agreeing with me that Serena isn't a complete player right!!She wins just because of her serve!!
Thanks you've proven my point:angel::angel:

Mina Vagante
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:26 AM
:worship:

How funny !

Maria basically plays a worse version of Serena's game. Apart from the ' run run run ' bit, because you know.... :)

Mina Vagante
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:27 AM
So you are agreeing with me that Serena isn't a complete player right!!She wins just because of her serve!!
Thanks you've proven my point:angel::angel:

Maria is a complete player ? :tape:

Aaric
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:34 AM
Because it makes matches boring

davidmario
Jun 30th, 2010, 01:19 PM
Because it makes matches boring

would you feel better if serena served with her left arm against your faves in order to let them have more chances? that is like your father letting you win in games when you were a kid.

Apoleb
Jun 30th, 2010, 01:56 PM
Serena's serve doesn't bother me outside Wimbledon, mainly because she can complement it very well with other qualities. We've seen her demolish players from the baseline with ease with some spectacular put downs (Sharapova 07, Safina 09, Azarenka '10 post 0-4). In wimbledon however, the grass is really showing her lazy footwork and her serve becomes even more ridiculous, making her almost totally dependent on it. Corswandt compared that to Roddick, and it's exactly why I couldn't stand him either.

As for the bs that people don't whine about big forehands but whine about big serves.... two forehands can very rarely look the same. It's a dynamic shot that changes with the type of ball you're hitting, where you're on the court and how you want to hit. A serve is a shot that is totally dependent on you and would look the same like all the time. Yes, it looks pretty for a while.. but for the aesthetics of the game, a GOAT ground game always looks better than GOAT serving.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 30th, 2010, 02:06 PM
Only ppl quoted were ppl I don't know :shrug: And only a few posts. I'm sure that doesn't constitute half the board.

It's stupid to complain about the greatest serve ever.

look at 2 posts after this one LOL

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 30th, 2010, 02:12 PM
Serena's serve doesn't bother me outside Wimbledon, mainly because she can complement it very well with other qualities. We've seen her demolish players from the baseline with ease with some spectacular put downs (Sharapova 07, Safina 09, Azarenka '10 post 0-4). In wimbledon however, the grass is really showing her lazy footwork and her serve becomes even more ridiculous, making her almost totally dependent on it. Corswandt compared that to Roddick, and it's exactly why I couldn't stand him either.

As for the bs that people don't whine about big forehands but whine about big serves.... two forehands can very rarely look the same. It's a dynamic shot that changes with the type of ball you're hitting, where you're on the court and how you want to hit. A serve is a shot that is totally dependent on you and would look the same like all the time. Yes, it looks pretty for a while.. but for the aesthetics of the game, a GOAT ground game always looks better than GOAT serving.


didn't she beatdown azarenka on grass last year?? beat down everyone on grass last year apart from elena?

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 30th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Maria is a complete player ? :tape:

If you say so:wavey::wavey:

DefyingGravity
Jun 30th, 2010, 02:22 PM
Serena's serve makes her Serena.
Same way Justine's backhand and coaching makes her Justine
Or Ivanovic's forehand makes (made) her Ivanovic.

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 05:14 PM
Serena's serve doesn't bother me outside Wimbledon, mainly because she can complement it very well with other qualities. We've seen her demolish players from the baseline with ease with some spectacular put downs (Sharapova 07, Safina 09, Azarenka '10 post 0-4). In wimbledon however, the grass is really showing her lazy footwork and her serve becomes even more ridiculous, making her almost totally dependent on it. Corswandt compared that to Roddick, and it's exactly why I couldn't stand him either.

As for the bs that people don't whine about big forehands but whine about big serves.... two forehands can very rarely look the same. It's a dynamic shot that changes with the type of ball you're hitting, where you're on the court and how you want to hit. A serve is a shot that is totally dependent on you and would look the same like all the time. Yes, it looks pretty for a while.. but for the aesthetics of the game, a GOAT ground game always looks better than GOAT serving.

That's just the thing..it's foolish to say that every serve looks the same. Otherwise people would quickly catch up to it no? The beauty of Serena's serve is that people CAN'T read it. It's amazing to see people so clueless.

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 05:19 PM
Because their faves can't return it. Instead of complaining about Serena's serve, maybe people should complain about players not being able to execute a block, chip, or a slice return to at least keep the ball in play. Or how many girls are so adamant at returning Serena's serve on the baseline. When you're facing a big server, you don't stand on the baseline -- you move back a few feet to give yourself more reaction time even if it's just for a few nanoseconds. Do you see the men returning Karlovic's serve on the baseline?

It's amazing to watch someone like Serena who can serve her way out of a hole. Just look at Federer and think of how many times his serve bailed him out of trouble. And it's stupid to say that without her serve, Serena would be nothing. She's an incredible athlete and is sound from all parts of the court. And it's not as if that serve fell from the heavens and landed on her lap. She has that serve right now because of talent, great technique, and practice. She worked hard for that, and is now reaping its benefits.

And also, not only does a great serve get you free points, but it puts tremendous pressure on your opponent to hold their own. You get your opponents thinking "I have to hold my serve or this match is over." Just look at Sharapova and Li Na.

Exactly....that's the whole thing.

Ntosake
Jun 30th, 2010, 05:57 PM
I assumed many people here became WTA and not ATP fans because of the boring serve fests in the ATP in the 90s. I know I did.
So the complaints about Serena's dominant serves are not that surprising.

I wish Justine could serve like that though.

We know.

Everybody wishes their fav could serve like that:lol:

MegaDethly
Jun 30th, 2010, 06:05 PM
would you feel better if serena served with her left arm against your faves in order to let them have more chances? that is like your father letting you win in games when you were a kid.

Yes, because Serena is a man.

HippityHop
Jun 30th, 2010, 06:39 PM
I'm now convinced that this forum is populated by fools. :help:

Serenita
Jun 30th, 2010, 06:47 PM
So you are agreeing with me that Serena isn't a complete player right!!She wins just because of her serve!!
Thanks you've proven my point:angel::angel:

Serena is the most complete player out there, hence no 1. And kicking your fave ass time and time again;)

davidmario
Jun 30th, 2010, 06:56 PM
Yes, because Serena is a man.

and your fav is you?:rolleyes: not that intelligent, right? not that intelligent, riiight?:weirdo:

Vikapower
Jun 30th, 2010, 07:26 PM
Serena's placement and disguise on her serve is great. She can hit different serves from the same toss. I do agree that most girls could do better at returning her serve, but it doesn't change the fact that she has the GOAT serve.
Even with the greatest disquise the girls should give themselves more time by backing up. They should stop wanting to hit a 121mph serve like a 90mph serve :help: wich is completely foolish, passing underneath the ball might help sometimes only to get into the points and frustrate Serena. :rolleyes: Even the so said GOAT Serena does that then she keeps complaining about her returns of serves. :rolleyes:

This a misconception as said because Serena just benificiates of the complete lack of technic from the girls on some aspect of the game which is really unfortunate for tennis.

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 07:56 PM
Even with the greatest disquise the girls should give themselves more time by backing up. They should stop wanting to hit a 121mph serve like a 90mph serve :help: wich is completely foolish, passing underneath the ball might help sometimes only to get into the points and frustrate Serena. :rolleyes: Even the so said GOAT Serena does that then she keeps complaining about her returns of serves. :rolleyes:

This a misconception as said because Serena just benificiates of the complete lack of technic from the girls on some aspect of the game which is really unfortunate for tennis.

:haha: You have NO idea what you talking about..really. If it were as easy as you were saying, everybody would try it...and it STILL wouldn't work. :lol:

Lucemferre
Jun 30th, 2010, 07:57 PM
Because they think it's unfair her serve is so good:lol:

Vlover
Jun 30th, 2010, 07:59 PM
It's amazing to watch someone like Serena who can serve her way out of a hole. Just look at Federer and think of how many times his serve bailed him out of trouble. And it's stupid to say that without her serve, Serena would be nothing. She's an incredible athlete and is sound from all parts of the court. And it's not as if that serve fell from the heavens and landed on her lap. She has that serve right now because of talent, great technique, and practice. She worked hard for that, and is now reaping its benefits.
And also, not only does a great serve get you free points, but it puts tremendous pressure on your opponent to hold their own. You get your opponents thinking "I have to hold my serve or this match is over." Just look at Sharapova and Li Na.
I doubt this will make any difference to those complaining because we all know that this is not about serving per se but who is doing the great serving. Anyway well stated!
We know.

Everybody wishes their fav could serve like that:lol:
Isn't that the truth. Remember not too long ago when the rage was Pova was one of the best servers if not the best in women's tennis?:rolleyes: I don't recall any complaints then. If Justine had a serve like that I doubt some people would be belly aching at the moment. I just hope Serena continue to serve well because I love when she drives the haters crazy.:lol:

DemWilliamsGulls
Jun 30th, 2010, 08:07 PM
People always need something to complain about.

Right and always envy with their favorite player WISH they could do.

MegaDethly
Jun 30th, 2010, 08:11 PM
and your fav is you?:rolleyes: not that intelligent, right? not that intelligent, riiight?:weirdo:

Excuse me? Go to a German forum or something.

Mina Vagante
Jun 30th, 2010, 08:22 PM
Excuse me? Go to a German forum or something.

Have you gotten over Venus' loss yet ? :)

MegaDethly
Jun 30th, 2010, 08:29 PM
How dare you.

Vikapower
Jun 30th, 2010, 08:40 PM
:haha: You have NO idea what you talking about..really. If it were as easy as you were saying, everybody would try it...and it STILL wouldn't work. :lol:
Do you even watch tennis ? Do you even understand what's beeing said ? :p Your kindergarden analysis... :help:

I didn't say it would be easy or it would work 100% but the goal is on the rare occasions at wich you have a shot at Serena's serve you have to make her play the exchange and by so make her more error prone but if you don't give a chance to by hitting your FH 120 miles out, well, that's your choice. 40-50% of created chances chiping the ball in is still better than 0-10% with the flat shots. :rolleyes:

"Everyone would try it" Are you playing dumb or just a newbie in tennis world ? :o Have you ever heard of style of play ? More than half of the WTA plays super aggressive tennis, a very very very small percentage plays all-court = Not all girls have the technic to play like that mostly due to the fact that they're closed up in their overall aggressive technic so how in the world would they even try it except for failure ?

To play this type of tennis, you already must have a gameplan or multiple gameplans, overall good technic but you also need to play severe all-court.

Pironkova played superb all-court tennis with a beautiful game plan and that worked very very well. You need to watch people like Feds when they play Karlovic, Murrays when they play Dent etc... and watch their receiving attitude. Please work on your tennis culture before you make such infantile replies. :lol:

DOUBLEFIST
Jun 30th, 2010, 08:41 PM
....how many people are complaining?
Have you even read the thread. :lol:

I, frankly, am surprised at some of the complaints, even some of the well disguised ones.

What a thread like this does is really reveal how many posters are suckin' on sour grapes. Very disappointing. One would think that Serena's serving would be a celebrated inspiration to fans of these other girls on tour - a tour that has been largely criticized for LACK of good serving. :lol: The hypocrisy of some of these folks around here is just :weirdo:

Instead of criticizing Serena, her serve, the surface, etc, etc, try to figure out how and why she's able to serve that way and wish, hope, pray, encourage, demand that your fave learn to do the same - or some where close to it.

Certain fans, of course, are easily dismissed in their critcisms - Crazed insane Steffi fans, for example. They have, for years, been able to argue that Steffi's serve was greater than Serena's. Of late however, even establishment notables are acknowledging that Serena's serve is the GOAT, so that's rubbing Steffi fans the wrong way. I understand :hug:

Vee-only fans are showing themselves to be a bit resentful as well. Of them, no explanation is necessary. :hug:

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 09:57 PM
Do you even watch tennis ? Do you even understand what's beeing said ? :p Your kindergarden analysis... :help:

I didn't say it would be easy or it would work 100% but the goal is on the rare occasions at wich you have a shot at Serena's serve you have to make her play the exchange and by so make her more error prone but if you don't give a chance to by hitting your FH 120 miles out, well, that's your choice. 40-50% of created chances chiping the ball in is still better than 0-10% with the flat shots. :rolleyes:

"Everyone would try it" Are you playing dumb or just a newbie in tennis world ? :o Have you ever heard of style of play ? More than half of the WTA plays super aggressive tennis, a very very very small percentage plays all-court = Not all girls have the technic to play like that mostly due to the fact that they're closed up in their overall aggressive technic so how in the world would they even try it except for failure ?

To play this type of tennis, you already must have a gameplan or multiple gameplans, overall good technic but you also need to play severe all-court.

Pironkova played superb all-court tennis with a beautiful game plan and that worked very very well. You need to watch people like Feds when they play Karlovic, Murrays when they play Dent etc... and watch their receiving attitude. Please work on your tennis culture before you make such infantile replies. :lol:

:haha: Make her error-prone, huh? And then what? What use is that if you CAN'T hold serve yourself? That's the whole thing...the girls can't serve and Serena can serve. And if needed she can BREAK too..

Aahh, so now Pironkova is the new standard huh? Girl reaches ONE SF and all of sudden it's her game that people have the model themselves after? Please!

p.s.: We'll see how well Murray's returning will look against Rafa...or does it only work agsinst big servers?! :lol:

Calypso
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:03 PM
Why does it annoy so many people that Serena has such a good serve. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a serve like Serena's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Serena is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her serve :lol:

It annoys the hell out of alot of fans because she's able to get out of trouble a million times in a match with it, yet other girls don't have the luxury to do the same. Its an irrational reaction to a perceived unfair advantage Serena holds over everyone else. And its such a flawless shot that HARDLY ever lets her down:cool:.

ONE shot. Wham! Breakpoints wiped away. Match points saved. Dreams dashed:tape:. Tie break? There'll almost always be one winner if one of the contestants is Serena.

What makes people even more bitter is that even when her opponent is playing as good as Rena is off the ground, or may be even better, they have almost no chance of winning the match as long as Serve-rena wields that blunderbuss of a serve:lol:.

The dearth of big servers on the WTA makes Rena stand out more as a 'service machine'. On the ATP, with dozens of big servers (and 'returners':lol:), there's not as big an advantage having a monstrous serve there as it obviously is on the WTA.

But the reality is that the serve remains a huge part of the game, and every fan would absolutely love it if their faves had such an outstanding match-winning, ass-saving shot:bounce:. Serve on, Serena!:aparty:

Vlover
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:22 PM
What I would suggest to those who are bothered is to turn to something else while Serena is serving then watch only when the opponent is serving to see when they get broken.:lol:

vadin124
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:27 PM
Full respect to Serena for her great serve. But it's just the whole reason I hate the ATP is because you know that when a player breaks serve, it's set over. That's been the case with Serena this tournament, and it takes the drama out a little. :lol:

But Serena is a great champion and although I'm not a fan, I'll always respect her for that. :)

Vikapower
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:30 PM
:haha: Make her error-prone, huh? And then what? What use is that if you CAN'T hold serve yourself? That's the whole thing...the girls can't serve and Serena can serve. And if needed she can BREAK too..

Aahh, so now Pironkova is the new standard huh? Girl reaches ONE SF and all of sudden it's her game that people have the model themselves after? Please!

p.s.: We'll see how well Murray's returning will look against Rafa...or does it only work agsinst big servers?! :lol:
Yes because we all know that Serena is the greatest backcourt player out there. She always gives errors back there so she's error prone.

You're mixing up a lot of notions. :p If a girl after breaking Serena doesn't hold serve that's a whole different story but at least this would stop the Serena has the greatest serves of all times threads since that girl would have multiply broken Serena and showed with better technic and thinking that no serve is unbreakable. :p

Pironkova has used and that's only my opinion one of the greatest playbook I've ever seen at Wimbledon since 4-5 years to beat a Williams which consists of breaking the rhythm and using the shorter angles and diagonal to counter foretime I like powerplay as my sig indicates. :angel: Grass and clay aren't ballbashing surfaces but noble grounds that deserves to be treated differently. Justine understood that in the past but she has turned into a WTA bandwagoner.

P.S. I'm surprised you're thinking Rafa has the best serve. :lol: Didn't seem to be in the Ao 2010 semis when Andy beat him in straights. :wavey:

Apoleb
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:33 PM
That's just the thing..it's foolish to say that every serve looks the same. Otherwise people would quickly catch up to it no? The beauty of Serena's serve is that people CAN'T read it. It's amazing to see people so clueless.

bandabou, context goes over your head as usual. :help: There's not a single tennis shot that looks exactly the same. But you do realize how much is under your control when you're serving, and how much is when you're hitting a random forehand?

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:35 PM
It annoys the hell out of alot of fans because she's able to get out of trouble a million times in a match with it, yet other girls don't have the luxury to do the same. Its an irrational reaction to a perceived unfair advantage Serena holds over everyone else. And its such a flawless shot that HARDLY ever lets her down:cool:.

ONE shot. Wham! Breakpoints wiped away. Match points saved. Dreams dashed:tape:. Tie break? There'll almost always be one winner if one of the contestants is Serena.

What makes people even more bitter is that even when her opponent is playing as good as Rena is off the ground, or may be even better, they have almost no chance of winning the match as long as Serve-rena wields that blunderbuss of a serve:lol:.

The dearth of big servers on the WTA makes Rena stand out more as a 'service machine'. On the ATP, with dozens of big servers (and 'returners':lol:), there's not as big an advantage having a monstrous serve there as it obviously is on the WTA.

But the reality is that the serve remains a huge part of the game, and every fan would absolutely love it if their faves had such an outstanding match-winning, ass-saving shot:bounce:. Serve on, Serena!:aparty:

:lol: And that's the beauty of it..she isn't hitting only empty aces. She's hitting CLUTCH aces: saving bp's, winning sp's..frustratingggg!!

Masha df's to give Serena sp...Serena hits an ace. Frustratinggggg!! :lol:

Gdsimmons
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:38 PM
In a tour where 90% of the women CAN'T serve to save their lives, are people REALLY sitting here and criticizing the one woman that can do it (and do it EXTREMELY WELL)? The WTA gets dragged down the shit hole for the women who can't find a serve and people want to sit here and pick apart the ONE serve that is head above the rest?? GMAFB!

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:41 PM
Yes because we all know that Serena is the greatest backcourt player out there. She always gives errors back there so she's error prone.

You're mixing up a lot of notions. :p If a girl after breaking Serena doesn't hold serve that's a whole different story but at least this would stop the Serena has the greatest serves of all times threads since that girl would have multiply broken Serena and showed with better technic and thinking that no serve is unbreakable. :p

Pironkova has used and that's only my opinion one of the greatest playbook I've ever seen at Wimbledon since 4-5 years to beat a Williams which consists of breaking the rhythm and using the shorter angles and diagonal to counter foretime I like powerplay as my sig indicates. :angel: Grass and clay aren't ballbashing surfaces but noble grounds that deserves to be treated differently. Justine understood that in the past but she has turned into a WTA bandwagoner.

P.S. I'm surprised you're thinking Rafa has the best serve. :lol: Didn't seem to be in the Ao 2010 semis when Andy beat him in straights. :wavey:


:lol: So now it's about just proving that Serena's serve isn't unbreakable?! Who said that? NO serve's unbreakable..but Serena's the most RELIABLE and clutch. That's the thing.

Naahh, Lisa Raymond almost did it a couple of years ago..forgot to finish the job. It's indeed THE way for beating Vee these days. Seems to have forgotten how to adapt her game.

U suuurrreee you wanna go with Andy on this one? Here the : what use is it if you can't hold serve yourself comes into part. ;)

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 10:45 PM
bandabou, context goes over your head as usual. :help: There's not a single tennis shot that looks exactly the same. But you do realize how much is under your control when you're serving, and how much is when you're hitting a random forehand?

And that's the only criteria for deeming a shot as boring? Doesn't make much sense to me. It's more difficult to hit aces than forehand winners. If you ain't good, after a while people WILL pick on you...the fact that people haven't been able to do this with Serena's serve, means that she MUST be doing something right, no?

Vikapower
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:10 PM
:lol: So now it's about just proving that Serena's serve isn't unbreakable?! Who said that? NO serve's unbreakable..but Serena's the most RELIABLE and clutch. That's the thing.

Naahh, Lisa Raymond almost did it a couple of years ago..forgot to finish the job. It's indeed THE way for beating Vee these days. Seems to have forgotten how to adapt her game.

U suuurrreee you wanna go with Andy on this one? Here the : what use is it if you can't hold serve yourself comes into part. ;)
At the basis it wasn't about proving anything but just stating facts that would indicate that Serena if only the girls had better receiving technic and thinking in that department Serena wouldn't be stated as having a great serve but she would have a reliable serve as you said

It's the fact that the girls can't return serve correctly that puts in perspective the supposed beauty of the Williamses serve.

Watch Venus, she kind of reminds me the older version of Andy Roddick : 0 placement all power yet girls still haven't figured out when playing her that the full swap isn't working. Roger him understood that before everyone when playing Roddick and their H2H speaks for itself some of our favs and their coaches just needs to think more. :p

P.S. We could discuss Andy anytime I'm a big fan of his game. :wavey:

And that's the only criteria for deeming a shot as boring? Doesn't make much sense to me. It's more difficult to hit aces than forehand winners. If you ain't good, after a while people WILL pick on you... the fact that people haven't been able to do this with Serena's serve, means that she MUST be doing something right, no?
No, it's not about Serena doing someting right it's more about the WTA doing something bad when playing the Williamses in general.

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:16 PM
At the basis it wasn't about proving anything but just stating facts that would indicate that Serena if only the girls had better receiving technic and thinking in that department Serena wouldn't be stated as having a great serve but she would have a reliable serve as you said

It's the fact that the girls can't return serve correctly that puts in perspective the supposed beauty of the Williamses serve.

Watch Venus, she kind of reminds me the older version of Andy Roddick : 0 placement all power yet girls still haven't figured out when playing her that the full swap isn't working. Roger him understood that before everyone when playing Roddick and their H2H speaks for itself some of our favs and their coaches just needs to think more. :p

P.S. We could discuss Andy anytime I'm a big fan of his game. :wavey:


No, it's not about Serena doing someting right it's more about the WTA doing something bad when playing the Williamses in general.


So basically you're saying: everybody who hits tons of aces...it isn't great serving, it's bad returning?! :lol: Okayy, the result is still the same, just depends on how you look at it. Nice.

Williamses? As in plural? :scared: Because there's only ONE good serving Williams... and see that's the difference between Serena and Vee. Serena can place it ANYWHERE and hence although she doesn't hit as hard as Vee...still has the better serve..and that's why it ain't as easy beating her.

Andy's good..but too pushy.

#1SteffiGraf#1
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:28 PM
Just the fact that this subject is brought up, means it's a factor. And, a hot topic factor.

Face it, without her cheap, manly serve...she is an average player.

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:40 PM
Just the fact that this subject is brought up, means it's a factor. And, a hot topic factor.

Face it, without her cheap, manly serve...she is an average player.

This.

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:42 PM
:haha: Said a fan of the "young girl"...really? Please.

Gdsimmons
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:42 PM
The delusion in this thread is amazingly hilarious

edificio
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:47 PM
The delusion in this thread is amazingly hilarious

I think you meant to say, the stupidity, especially from Sharapova stalwarts..

Gdsimmons
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:48 PM
I think you meant to say, the stupidity, especially from Sharapova stalwarts..

Yeah stupidity is a better word for it :)

Vikapower
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:54 PM
So basically you're saying: everybody who hits tons of aces...it isn't great serving, it's bad returning?! :lol: Okayy, the result is still the same, just depends on how you look at it. Nice.

Williamses? As in plural? :scared: Because there's only ONE good serving Williams... and see that's the difference between Serena and Vee. Serena can place it ANYWHERE and hence although she doesn't hit as hard as Vee...still has the better serve..and that's why it ain't as easy beating her.

Andy's good..but too pushy.
You understood the concept and it's not because you can hit tons of aces that your serve is great it's the different things that you can do with it that makes it the best or not. That's why I'llnever consider Venus' serve as great.

I'm not saying that you can put all Serena's serve back into play which is virtually impossible but 2 out of 4 per game is a good stat than 1 or 0 out of 4 which you might get by only swaping at the ball.

That's what you think, my opinion is if you play Serena like she plays you then you virtually have no chances unfortunately during these 3-4 last years there hasn't been no bigger version of Hingis, 6'0" tall, correct serve, speed, defensive skills, court sense, anticipation skills... but with striking force.

P.S. Williamses because they are two or am I wrong ? :lol:

In The Zone
Jun 30th, 2010, 11:54 PM
Haters are gonna' hate.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 1st, 2010, 12:51 AM
bandy...don't even try LOL

Conor
Jul 1st, 2010, 12:57 AM
lol I can't believe some people are actually complaining about it. Sure it would be nice to have a few more rallies going on, especially when her serve is on, but its an awesome shot... so natural and powerful. Keep the good serving up Ree, show Justine how its done.

AcesHigh
Jul 1st, 2010, 12:58 AM
Why pay attention to obvious trolls?
Laugh it off and move on.

kickserve
Jul 1st, 2010, 01:34 AM
Can we stop the fucking madness already????????

Serena's serve is an asset to women's tennis.
Ever hear the male commentators laugh about who's going to 'hold' for the match when watching women's tennis? Meaning breaks are the norm and holds are the exception?

Serena's serve is the beautiful combination of great form, precision and power. She's not the biggest server (neither was Sampras or Federer). But she can place her serve to all 6 spots (body, and each corner of both service boxes) with great consistency. Has good command of spins on the serve.
This is the most important shot in tennis as it is the shot you have complete control over. Every other shot in tennis is a reply.
Serena has mastered it and kudos to her.
If Serena's serving display at Wimbledon, inspires young girls to practice their serves and accuracy, then the quality of women's tennis can only go up. When people start serving better, returns will improve out of necessity.

People who are complaining about Serena's serve are stupid. If you are offended, good. Don't be stupid next time.

kellswater
Jul 1st, 2010, 01:37 AM
Looks Too Good To Be True-witchcraft:devil:

bandabou
Jul 1st, 2010, 07:58 AM
You understood the concept and it's not because you can hit tons of aces that your serve is great it's the different things that you can do with it that makes it the best or not. That's why I'llnever consider Venus' serve as great.

I'm not saying that you can put all Serena's serve back into play which is virtually impossible but 2 out of 4 per game is a good stat than 1 or 0 out of 4 which you might get by only swaping at the ball.

That's what you think, my opinion is if you play Serena like she plays you then you virtually have no chances unfortunately during these 3-4 last years there hasn't been no bigger version of Hingis, 6'0" tall, correct serve, speed, defensive skills, court sense, anticipation skills... but with striking force.

P.S. Williamses because they are two or am I wrong ? :lol:


2 out of 4 back in play? Wait...isn't this happening already? You act like Serena hits 4 aces/unreturnables everytime she serves. :lol: She's good but not THAT good.

6 ft tall Hingis..and still playing pushing tennis? Is that really what you wanna see?! :unsure:

propi
Jul 1st, 2010, 10:33 AM
Why does it annoy so many people that Serena has such a good serve. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a serve like Serena's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Serena is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her serve :lol:

Why does it annoy so many people that Caroline has such a good game. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a game like Caroline's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Caroline is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her game:lol:
_____
I mean, we all can play this game, just change two words :bounce:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 1st, 2010, 02:33 PM
so you're saying serena has no game?

edificio
Jul 1st, 2010, 02:34 PM
Why does it annoy so many people that Caroline has such a good game. It's her main weapon and she uses it like one.

If your favourite player had a game like Caroline's then you sure wouldn't be complaining about it. So much bitterness and anger on this board just because Caroline is one of only a select few of players than can rely on her game:lol:
_____
I mean, we all can play this game, just change two words :bounce:

Doesn't really work in the same way. Good effort, though.

Serenita
Jul 1st, 2010, 02:47 PM
This thread:tape:
Complaining about Serena's goat serve:lol:

Sharapower
Jul 1st, 2010, 03:28 PM
Instead of complaining about Serena's serve, people should bitch on other people's inability to return it.
Serve is what differentiates a true champion from a random average pro player.

HippityHop
Jul 2nd, 2010, 04:07 AM
Instead of complaining about Serena's serve, people should bitch on other people's inability to return it.
Serve is what differentiates a true champion from a random average pro player.

True. Even though she had only 8 aces today, she had at least 29 unreturnable serves which are just as good as aces. :)

thegreendestiny
Jul 2nd, 2010, 04:09 AM
...because ATP serve should not be used in WTA.

HippityHop
Jul 2nd, 2010, 04:12 AM
...because ATP serve should not be used in WTA.

And idiots should not be allowed on computers. But whaddayagunnado? ;)

bandabou
Jul 2nd, 2010, 07:35 AM
:lol: Hateersss! :nerner:

It ALL starts with the serve. Look at ELena D..terrific groundstrokes and all, but CAN'T serve...thus NO champ.

SM
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:24 AM
I'm not a Serena fan, but more WTA players whould learn to serve. Hopefully coaches realise this at the grass roots level by looking at how much help Serena has with her serve and in future generations we have a whole lot more who can serve.

Let's face it , a big serve is the biggest advantage in womens tennis right now, the f rench open with Stosur in the final is a good example (and im a sam fan).

girls....learn to serve :P

propi
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:45 AM
Doesn't really work in the same way. Good effort, though.
Oh, yes it does, just take a player you like and his strongest feat.
The thing is if that player didn't have that feature, she wouldn't be that player, easy :p

bandabou
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:57 AM
I'm not a Serena fan, but more WTA players whould learn to serve. Hopefully coaches realise this at the grass roots level by looking at how much help Serena has with her serve and in future generations we have a whole lot more who can serve.

Let's face it , a big serve is the biggest advantage in womens tennis right now, the f rench open with Stosur in the final is a good example (and im a sam fan).

girls....learn to serve :P

Exactly..don't hate on Serena because she can actually serve. :lol: The world is going crazy..

AnywhereButHome
Jul 2nd, 2010, 09:21 AM
People are complaining because most of their faves' serves are absolute crap.

:yeah:

pattyclijsters
Jul 2nd, 2010, 09:55 AM
i don't like big servers because tey shorten the points.

HippityHop
Jul 2nd, 2010, 12:40 PM
i don't like big servers because tey shorten the points.

Then why don't we require everyone to serve underhanded? Or better yet if a serve goes in a more than 80 mph the server loses the point. How about that?

And what about the serve that is not that hard but is well placed? People act like every ace or unreturnable is in the 150 mph range. Silliness abounds.

bandabou
Jul 2nd, 2010, 01:38 PM
That's the thing...Serena's serve is more about PLACEMENT than power. She most of the time serves around 108/109 mph's.
It's that her placement and disguise are soo good, there's nothing you can do.

pattyclijsters
Jul 2nd, 2010, 01:40 PM
Then why don't we require everyone to serve underhanded? Or better yet if a serve goes in a more than 80 mph the server loses the point. How about that?

And what about the serve that is not that hard but is well placed? People act like every ace or unreturnable is in the 150 mph range. Silliness abounds.

because the game is not how about -I- like it, it is about playing within the rules.

bandabou
Jul 2nd, 2010, 01:48 PM
because the game is not how about -I- like it, it is about playing within the rules.

:lol: And the rules say: The point starts with the serve..

So, what u talking about?

pattyclijsters
Jul 2nd, 2010, 01:50 PM
:lol: And the rules say: The point starts with the serve..

So, what u talking about?

you are mixing two things up.

1. i accept the rules.

2. still i don't have to like it when points are over with one stroke.

:rolleyes:

bandabou
Jul 2nd, 2010, 01:52 PM
try to use your brain. i accep the rules, but i don't have to like them :rolleyes:

:haha: Ahhh, so only like the rules that your favs excel at? Nice...

pattyclijsters
Jul 2nd, 2010, 02:08 PM
:haha: Ahhh, so only like the rules that your favs excel at? Nice...

as you have seen, i changed my message before you replied.

and: of course.

everybody likes rules their favorite benefits from. because their best strokes are played within the rules.

i really cannot see why you are making such a fuzz about it.

in pm we can discuss why i like fresh air.

HippityHop
Jul 2nd, 2010, 04:00 PM
as you have seen, i changed my message before you replied.

and: of course.

everybody likes rules their favorite benefits from. because their best strokes are played within the rules.

i really cannot see why you are making such a fuzz about it.

in pm we can discuss why i like fresh air.

But you do understand that it's silly to complain that player has an excellent serve, don't you?

Vikapower
Jul 2nd, 2010, 07:02 PM
i don't like big servers because tey shorten the points.
I'm with you on that especially when a player like Serena is so bad off the ground.

Serenita
Jul 2nd, 2010, 07:12 PM
Why dont we remove the serve from the game! you start by trowing the ball in play, receiver needs to kick it back then you can hit it with ur racket but no harder then 30Mph. Points are giving to the best looking girl and who has the prettiest nails.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 2nd, 2010, 07:36 PM
Why dont we remove the serve from the game! you start by trowing the ball in play, receiver needs to kick it back then you can hit it with ur racket but no harder then 30Mph. Points are giving to the best looking girl and who has the prettiest nails.
:spit: Nice.

omoruyi
Jul 2nd, 2010, 07:59 PM
ahaaa, for tennis to evolve into a high-level athletic competition unlike say, Golf, over the decades...who would've thought the transition would be met with shock & horror, even frowned upon. :shrug: ~ :devil:

So then, what is the nature of sport; i ask myself... :tennis:

SerenaSlam
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:01 PM
because its serena williams. she is black and accomplished in a white sport. she is number 1 in singles and doubles she has double figures in slams in singles and doubles. she has really put herself out there as the best of her time. and because she is black people must find reasons to knock and question every aspect of her being serena williams. whether it is her tennis or off court endeavors she will always be criticized. i for one do not think the greats she is starting to be compared to came close to getting this treatmeant. but its one negative thing after the other that can easily be brought up. and why? because she is such the great champion that she is? WOW :eek: YEAH I SAID IT!

SerenaSlam
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:05 PM
one more thing. serena showed at wimbledon this year that she doesn't even really need a ground game to beat the competition. her serve has really been the reason she is in the final. and i think she knows that. and its annoying for "fans" (aka bitch ass posters that imagine themselves in these players shoes and expressing opinions they wish their favorites would and never will ) to see her show off another part of serena williams. being able to have just one major weapon and it being so good she needs no others FTW

darrinbaker00
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:13 PM
I'm with you on that especially when a player like Serena is so bad off the ground.
There's not a woman on tour who didn't wish she could serve like Serena. Heck, there are a few MEN on tour who would give years off their lives to serve like Serena.

pattyclijsters
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:20 PM
because its serena williams. she is black and accomplished in a white sport.

:rolleyes:

you reduce her to being black??? for me it doesnt matter. again, i dont like how she (and other (white! OMG!!!) players) make tennis more uninteresting by not allowing rallies

darrinbaker00
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:24 PM
:rolleyes:

you reduce her to being black??? for me it doesnt matter. again, i dont like how she (and other (white! OMG!!!) players) make tennis more uninteresting by not allowing rallies
Please find another sport to watch. PLEASE.

pattyclijsters
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:27 PM
Please find another sport to watch. PLEASE.

no. i can enjoy tennis the way i like it. and you have the same right.

Gdsimmons
Jul 2nd, 2010, 08:31 PM
When you are the best people you're gonna have a lot of lovers and then you are gonna have equal amount of haters

bandabou
Jul 2nd, 2010, 09:15 PM
There's not a woman on tour who didn't wish she could serve like Serena. Heck, there are a few MEN on tour who would give years off their lives to serve like Serena.

Preach, amigo!

sweetpeas
Jul 2nd, 2010, 09:19 PM
Right ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! Right on!

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 2nd, 2010, 09:51 PM
On one level, this conversation is amusing in an absurd kind of "I-think-it's-unfair-for-Payton-manning-to-pass-the-ball" kind of way, yet at the same time, it sort of underscores a REAL problem with tennis as a sport.

Many people, and it sounds like this Clijsters-Patty is one, tend to watch the sport STRICTLY from a wishful aesthetically appreciative point of view, much the same mindset as those who are into figure skating or ball room dancing or some such thing. They DE-emphasize the actually OBJECT of the sport, ie, "Hit the Ball Past Your Oppenent." They have this weird notion that style, manner and means matter in determining quality and often times greatness. To me, this is foolishness. The goal is to win. Period. At the end of the day, winning is the one, singular metric of greatness. In relation to that, style doesn't matter a wit.

Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't have personal preferences for different styles. I certainly do. What I AM saying is that it is UTTERLY, COMPREHENSIVELY, RIDICULOUSLY FOOLISH to try to minimize a players greatness simply because they're winning in a STYLE that you don't like.

It seem, however, that tennis is riddled with these sort of style elitist. It is, in a sense, a failure to understand the..., "realpolitik" (for lack of a better word) of high dollar sports today.

Ntosake
Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:03 PM
On one level, this conversation is amusing in an absurd kind of "I-think-it's-unfair-for-Payton-manning-to-pass-the-ball" kind of way, yet at the same time, it sort of underscores a REAL problem with tennis as a sport.

Many people, and it sounds like this Clijsters-Patty is one, tend to watch the sport STRICTLY from a wishful aesthetically appreciative point of view, much the same mindset as those who are into figure skating or ball room dancing or some such thing. They DE-emphasize the actually OBJECT of the sport, ie, "Hit the Ball Past Your Oppenent." They have this weird notion that style, manner and means matter in determining quality and often times greatness. To me, this is foolishness. The goal is to win. Period. At the end of the day, winning is the one, singular metric of greatness. In relation to that, style doesn't matter a wit.

Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't have personal preferences for different styles. I certainly do. What I AM saying is that it is UTTERLY, COMPREHENSIVELY, RIDICULOUSLY FOOLISH to try to minimize a players greatness simply because they're winning in a STYLE that you don't like.

It seem, however, that tennis is riddled with these sort of style elitist. It is, in a sense, a failure to understand the..., "realpolitik" (for lack of a better word) of high dollar sports today.

:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship:

No where else but tennis. (shaking my head)

bandabou
Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:05 PM
And then..how can they NOT like Serena's serve? The best motion out there!

Ntosake
Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:08 PM
Right, bandabou. I am hearing that she is the best server to ever play the women's game, and who wouldn't appreciate that???

omoruyi
Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:11 PM
On one level, this conversation is amusing in an absurd kind of "I-think-it's-unfair-for-Payton-manning-to-pass-the-ball" kind of way, yet at the same time, it sort of underscores a REAL problem with tennis as a sport.

Many people, and it sounds like this Clijsters-Patty is one, tend to watch the sport STRICTLY from a wishful aesthetically appreciative point of view, much the same mindset as those who are into figure skating or ball room dancing or some such thing. They DE-emphasize the actually OBJECT of the sport, ie, "Hit the Ball Past Your Oppenent." They have this weird notion that style, manner and means matter in determining quality and often times greatness. To me, this is foolishness. The goal is to win. Period. At the end of the day, that is the one, singular metric of greatness. In relation to that, style doesn't matter a wit.

Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't have personal preferences for different styles. I certainly do. What I AM saying is that it UTTERLY, COMPREHENSIVELY, RIDICULOUSLY FOOLISH to try to minimize a players greatness simply because they're winning in a STYLE that you don't like.

It seem, however, that tennis is riddled with these sort of style elitist. It is, in a sense, a failure to understand the..., "realpolitik" (for lack of a better word) of high dollar sports today.
yep, thats the apparent issue. And unlike those other athletically aesthetic showcases you mentioned, Tennis is an actual physical competition that happens contains those two^ attributes...

This makes the resistance to, or un-acknowledgement that judging a totally results based sport by the numbers only is fair, all the more baffling...

Pureracket
Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:30 PM
:rolleyes:

you reduce her to being black??? for me it doesnt matter. again, i dont like how she (and other (white! OMG!!!) players) make tennis more uninteresting by not allowing ralliesBeing "Black" is not a reduction of any kind, boo.

mykarma
Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:40 PM
...because ATP serve should not be used in WTA.
Give it up. bitterness wont make your favs serve any better.

tennisbum79
Jul 2nd, 2010, 11:00 PM
i don't like big servers because tey shorten the points.
Did you complain when Pat Rafter and Pete Samprass played.
These 2 play extremely short points, both at USO and Wimbledon.


I am beginning to wonder what else is in play here?
Until you come out clean and lay out all the element of your argument, it does not hold water.

tennisbum79
Jul 2nd, 2010, 11:11 PM
ahaaa, for tennis to evolve into a high-level athletic competition unlike say, Golf, over the decades...who would've thought the transition would be met with shock & horror, even frowned upon. :shrug: ~ :devil:

So then, what is the nature of sport; i ask myself... :tennis:
Some posters here are borne in the wrong time.

They are yearning for those years where tennis players wore pic-nic attire, complete with long flowing white sirkts, shirt and ties, and straw hats.

Well that period is gone and will not come back.

Enjoy the pictures below

http://www.4specialtytennis.com/images/lottie.jpg

http://www.4specialtytennis.com/images/wimbledon.jpg

http://www.4specialtytennis.com/images/lenglen.jpg

http://library.thinkquest.org/10615/frames/tennis/history.jpg

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 12:01 AM
...because ATP serve should not be used in WTA.
what is an atp serve?

Probably 20 years ago, any serve over 100MPH was consiered an ATP server.

I can say with confidence that you are not coaching maeterial.
You would be dragging down your players game, tell her what she cannot do.

Had you been Henin coach, she would never have the career she has.
She has to work hard to develop her server and forehand in order to compete with the WS, Davenport and Caprati and others.

Carlos did not complain to WTA it was unfair for Justine to "compete with those women who play like ATP players"

KournikovaFan91
Jul 3rd, 2010, 12:04 AM
If the WTA becomes over run with big servers that really will be a bad day for the WTA. Props to Serena for using it but seriously who wants to watch a WTA version of a Karlovic/Isner match :o

I prefer the fact WTA serving isn't so great, it means players can break at any point and also means that one break doesn't decide a set the way an ATP set is usually decided on one sole break of serve.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 3rd, 2010, 12:20 AM
so you prefer horrible matches?

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 12:20 AM
If the WTA becomes over run with big servers that really will be a bad day for the WTA. Props to Serena for using it but seriously who wants to watch a WTA version of a Karlovic/Isner match :o

I prefer the fact WTA serving isn't so great, it means players can break at any point and also means that one break doesn't decide a set the way an ATP set is usually decided on one sole break of serve.
Are you serious?
Instead of lamenting good serve coming to WTA, you should rejoice; because overtime, palyers will develop an effecive return game against.
And it will be good for the WTA game.
It is hard to stop progress.

I remember when Roddick first joined the pro, ATP players had hard time to stop him.
But the players did 2 things:

They develop a better return, not only against Roddick , but also against other player with powerful serve
They added power to their own serve to rival Roddick.These sort of thing happen in any sports.
In track & field 100m and 200m, the women time is now where the men time used to be few years ago.

Women basketball player can now dunk the ball.

You see, there is only movement forward. No looking back.


One last thing about the topic at hand.
Serena's serve is not just just power, it is also placement and toss disguise.

In fact, the tosse disguise is the biggest factor in its effectiveness.

Now, can you argue with a straight face that toss disguise effectiveness is also exclusive to ATP ?

KournikovaFan91
Jul 3rd, 2010, 12:52 AM
so you prefer horrible matches?

Matches with millions of aces are horrible matches. Especially if that is all a certain player is able to do like some of these American men.

Serena has more dimensions than serving but I don't want a tour where all we have is serving and thats it. I don't even like the fact serving alone can win you titles on the ATP tour, god forbid you might hit a volley once and a while.

If this is the WTA you want then encourage six foot Amazon women to play and serve against each other till every set reaches a tie break :rolleyes:

Serena y Monica
Jul 3rd, 2010, 12:54 AM
Tennisbum...question. Since we know that all sport evolves and that anything the garners the women's game more respect is a good thing...Then we also know that if someone is arguing that the good old days were better (they are speaking code)...so why bother. Compare the good old days to now and the only thing that is different is the color of the women improving the game. C'mon now.

I was just watching a doubles match between Goolagong/Court - King/Evert and you could see the generational shift (growth) on the court. Goo/Court couldn't even put away an overhead and Chris was the neophite but taking bigger harder cuts at the ball. She was no Monica but compared to the other three but you could tell she was bringing a more aggresive (male) game to the fore. Nothing has changed. With each generation the game continues to grow and becomes more on par with the men's game. The men used to laugh about women's tennis and even though they are still totally different games. You hear some the men speak about the womens' game with respect...cause it has become better stonger...They marvel at the improved serve... the improved fitness means that the technology isn't outstripping the women's level of play so matches are not littered up with u.e's as much...what's not to like?

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 01:12 AM
Tennisbum...question. Since we know that all sport evolves and that anything the garners the women's game more respect is a good thing...Then we also know that if someone is arguing that the good old days were better (they are speaking code)...so why bother. Compare the good old days to now and the only thing that is different is the color of the women improving the game. C'mon now.
The sooner these people will speak plainly about what they really object to regarding Serena's serve, the better it would be for the debate moving forward.

So far, they have been stuck on tread mill, pushing an argument they know is not effective and fall on its face by fairly rudimentory examination.



I was just watching a doubles match between Goolagong/Court - King/Evert and you could see the generational shift (growth) on the court. Goo/Court couldn't even put away an overhead and Chris was the neophite but taking bigger harder cuts at the ball. She was no Monica but compared to the other three but you could tell she was bringing a more aggresive (male) game to the fore. Nothing has changed. With each generation the game continues to grow and becomes more on par with the men's game. The men used to laugh about women's tennis and even though they are still totally different games. You hear some the men speak about the womens' game with respect...cause it has become better stonger...They marvel at the improved serve... the improved fitness means that the technology isn't outstripping the women's level of play so matches are not littered up with u.e's as much...what's not to like?
I don't know if the other side is being disingenuous, or they have no sense of history in the evolution of sport.

VS Fan
Jul 3rd, 2010, 01:18 AM
The complaint, per se, isn't with Serena's seve. It's with the way they 'tuned' the grass this year. If you have a serve that can exploit it, this suface is VERY ace-friendly. Most women don;t have that kind of serve. (Most men don't, either.)

Recall the Isner-Mahut marathon. There were only THREE breaks of serve in that match. Mahut had over 100 aces and lost.
There are other players who's serves work well on this surface. But they aren't as good in the other aspects of the game as Serena. And Serena has always been able to survive a hail of UEs in a way Venus can't, so even when she'soff, if she wants to win enough, she can usually find a way.
Simply put, Serena's serve, on this surface, makes her matches a bit too much like men's tennis.
Keep in mind that Wimbledon has SLOWED down the grass since 2002 to where it is slower than some hard courts. Serena (and Venus) could have won much easier if the courts were the same as 2000 and earlier. I think it was in response to Sampres and Venus/Serena serves and ground strokes being unreturnable for most players. They even changed the weights of the balls. Slowing the court down also hurt players such as Maria and Lindsay. I wish they would go back to the original grass.

Human Nature
Jul 3rd, 2010, 01:18 AM
Matches with millions of aces are horrible matches. Especially if that is all a certain player is able to do like some of these American men.

Serena has more dimensions than serving but I don't want a tour where all we have is serving and thats it. I don't even like the fact serving alone can win you titles on the ATP tour, god forbid you might hit a volley once and a while.

If this is the WTA you want then encourage six foot Amazon women to play and serve against each other till every set reaches a tie break :rolleyes:


Yet most of the men have a very good serve 'motion contrary to most of the women and still manage to have good quality matches with long rallys and all ... otherwise why do you think that most of the people fans and non-fans believe that mens tennis is far better than women's ..?

If serena wasnt one of the very few female player with a perfect serve technic on the tour then WTA wouldnt be so much dismished compared to ATP , because you know how so much people complain about WTA these days because of bad quality matches , although most of the girls cant serve for a penny so still have every opportunity to have rallys ... then again even with those rallys the quality is not there... .

Perfect serve motion means quality and so more interesting matches ...WTA couldnt be at a higher level if the girls learn how to serve , it would mean progress and not regression .

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 01:20 AM
Matches with millions of aces are horrible matches. Especially if that is all a certain player is able to do like some of these American men.

Serena has more dimensions than serving but I don't want a tour where all we have is serving and thats it. I don't even like the fact serving alone can win you titles on the ATP tour, god forbid you might hit a volley once and a while.

If this is the WTA you want then encourage six foot Amazon women to play and serve against each other till every set reaches a tie break :rolleyes:
Too much fear of the inevitable future of the sport and not enough substance to justify why.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 3rd, 2010, 01:24 AM
...If this is the WTA you want then encourage six foot Amazon women to play and serve against each other till every set reaches a tie break :rolleyes:
But what you're failing to realize is that THIS is how the sport moves forward.

Why? Well, just using your example, one of these days one of those "six foot Amazon Women" will develop a RETURN GAME that often enough sufficiently neutralizes the other's service games.

That's how it works. It is, in a sense, a kind of "arms race." Who can develop the weapons to counter the others weapons. It pushes the sport forward.

And the idea that just because Serena has an unsurpassed serve on the women's side everybody else will soon have one too is lunacy. Serena's serve is EXCEPTIONAL. By the very definition few, if any, other girls will acquire it. So you can relax. Your tour will not be over run by "6 foot Amazon" serving machines. But rest assured if it did, one of them would learn to counter the feared serving machines. :lol:

matty
Jul 3rd, 2010, 01:32 AM
I heart Serena. The woman is so awesome :bigcry: and her serve is a thing of beauty :hearts:.

Douce
Jul 3rd, 2010, 01:44 AM
LOL why are people even discussing this right now?! Let me guess, your faves are out of the tournament...Serena is potentially gonna win another slam. Nothing better to do than to bitch and moan about a subject that is so redundant. Take this up with your fave's forum, wine about how they need to improve and work on their serves...maybe they too one day can have an "atp" serve! Appreciate the fact that she is taking "female" serving to another level. This is like those old WS dominating isn't good for the game type of topics...Pathetic thread.

Otlichno
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:01 AM
More Serena fans complaining about how some people don't like her! :rolleyes:

Can't you just get over the fact that you're favorites aren't other people's favorites!?

And allot of the times these people are right! Serena would not be half the player she is without her serve, but that is not a bad thing, so please stop acting as if it is. :rolleyes:

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:07 AM
More Serena fans complaining about how some people don't like her! :rolleyes:

Can't you just get over the fact that you're favorites aren't other people's favorites!?
You are wrong.
That is not what this thread is about.

Sometime it is better to abstain from posting in a thread, than writing nonsenselike this one.

Otlichno
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:10 AM
You are wrong.
That is not what this thread is about.

Sometime it is better to abstain from posting in a thread, than writing nonsenselike this one.

This thread was about how certain people said that Serena would have probably not reached the final if she didn't serve as well as she did.

Allot of WS fans began complaining and talking about how whoever said that were "haters". It is exactly what this thread is about.

Human Nature
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:13 AM
More Serena fans complaining about how some people don't like her! :rolleyes:

Can't you just get over the fact that you're favorites aren't other people's favorites!?

And allot of the times these people are right! Serena would not be half the player she is without her serve, but that is not a bad thing, so please stop acting as if it is. :rolleyes:



Those people are right ..? it is your opinion ..not the fact , mine is that she would have been at least 90% of the player she is today and has always been , just with less easy points .

And if serena would not be half the player she is without her serve , i guess she wouldnt have won half of all her GS , so how isnt it a bad thing as a tennis player who likes winning ..?

Donny
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:14 AM
More Serena fans complaining about how some people don't like her! :rolleyes:

Can't you just get over the fact that you're favorites aren't other people's favorites!?

And allot of the times these people are right! Serena would not be half the player she is without her serve, but that is not a bad thing, so please stop acting as if it is. :rolleyes:

Why not tell that to the people whom the thread starter is referring to?

Otlichno
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:16 AM
[/B]

Those people are right ..? it is your opinion ..not the fact , mine is that she would have been at least 90% of the player she is today and has always been , just with less easy points .

And if serena would not be half the player she is without her serve , i guess she wouldnt have won half of all her GS , so how isnt it a bad thing as a tennis player who likes winning ..?

What I'm trying to say was that it isn't a bad thing that she relies as heavily as she does on her serve.

Her serve is one of her biggest weapons (in my opinion :kiss:), I think when one of you're biggest weapons is taken away from you you will not be half the player you were.

darrinbaker00
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:17 AM
If the WTA becomes over run with big servers that really will be a bad day for the WTA. Props to Serena for using it but seriously who wants to watch a WTA version of a Karlovic/Isner match :o

I prefer the fact WTA serving isn't so great, it means players can break at any point and also means that one break doesn't decide a set the way an ATP set is usually decided on one sole break of serve.
In other words, you prefer to watch bad tennis. No problem. :yeah:

KournikovaFan91
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:19 AM
How is constantly serving aces good tennis :rolleyes:

Pironkova and Zvonareva didnt have amazing serving but was good tennis, you dont need an amazing serve to have an amazing match.

Why are you all so overly defensive to other peoples opinions.

Matt01
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:22 AM
Why not tell that to the people whom the thread starter is referring to?


Because this thread wasn't started by them?
Because it is therefore not clear who these people are anyway?
And because most of these people only exist in the imaginary world of the Serena fans?

:wavey:

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:24 AM
This thread was about how certain people said that Serena would have probably not reached the final if she didn't serve as well as she did.

Allot of WS fans began complaining and talking about how whoever said that were "haters". It is exactly what this thread is about.
No, the WS fans have argued that taking away a player's best asset/shot and the run a "if scenario" is a serious and mature argument.
And the only reason anyone can make such exceptionalist agrument with a straight face can only be their hate of Serena.
But they did not dwell on this.
The main argument is so ridiculuous, immature and against all historical precedent in any sport, it is hard to take it seriously.

Human Nature
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:27 AM
What I'm trying to say was that it isn't a bad thing that she relies as heavily as she does on her serve.

Her serve is one of her biggest weapons (in my opinion :kiss:), I think when one of you're biggest weapons is taken away from you you will not be half the player you were.



I realy disagree . I think when one of your biggest weapon is taken away from you .;then you are at least 90% of the player you are unless the only weapon you can count on is ( as for serena ) the serve ..then in that case you are not even half but 0% of the player you are .

This Wimbledon serena's ground game was off througuout the tournament . But serena Williams has been playing tennis for at least 15 years now , so it would be the easieast thing for me to show you countless videos of her matches where her groundstrokes were on , and show the world how a great player she is with almost all the shots , do i realy need to pick them on Youtube ..or ..?

One bad tournament doesnt define the game of player , you have to see on a bigger picture ...

Donny
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:30 AM
Because this thread wasn't started by them?
Because it is therefore not clear who these people are anyway?
And because most of these people only exist in the imaginary world of the Serena fans?

:wavey:

I have a proposition : every woman player who hits a serve more than 200km/h should play on ATP :lol:

She could be the best players in the world but I find Serena's game boring as hell when she serve , and without it I affirm this : she would be nothing :devil:

This. I hope we never reach in a stage where women's game will only be ace, ace, ace, service winner, ace, ace if so WTA will just be a pale copy of ATP only with way more variety and shot arsenal for the men. :sad:

It's such a boring game.

Daily tactics sessions one motto: Let the beast go !

serena is nothing without serve, and serve is the cheapest weapon in tennis, makes me want to puke, she is the least asethetially and technically pleasing player, does nothing for the game except hog the slams

Fucking Li Na :lol: What a l00ser

Serena's going to win Wimbledon playing like Andy Roddick :happy:


When ya serve like a man, its gonna be hard to beat ya!

Whenever SERVRena got into touble...BOOM! ACE! SCOWL! :lol:

Real fair :rolleyes:

Serena should go to men's tour. That's what she serves like.

If the WTA becomes over run with big servers that really will be a bad day for the WTA. Props to Serena for using it but seriously who wants to watch a WTA version of a Karlovic/Isner match :o

I prefer the fact WTA serving isn't so great, it means players can break at any point and also means that one break doesn't decide a set the way an ATP set is usually decided on one sole break of serve.
Yea, such vivid imaginations we have.

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:32 AM
How is constantly serving aces good tennis :rolleyes:

Pironkova and Zvonareva didnt have amazing serving but was good tennis, you dont need an amazing serve to have an amazing match.

Why are you all so overly defensive to other peoples opinions.

I thought consistency was good, the serve not falling apart, holding up against pressure?
I guess not. NOT when it comes to the WS.

So you want players to puposefully serve badly in order to make the game interesting?

Are you listening to yourself?
You want one player to not play to the best of her ability in order for you to enjoy the match.

A player worked very hard to develop a shot, and you are saying not use it because it might ruin your tennis watching enjoyment experience?

Human Nature
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:34 AM
How is constantly serving aces good tennis :rolleyes:

Pironkova and Zvonareva didnt have amazing serving but was good tennis, you dont need an amazing serve to have an amazing match.

Why are you all so overly defensive to other peoples opinions.


People here are arguing that without her serve serena would not be half the player she is ..is it something that everybody must accept and then no discussion? , or just allowed to disagree and then discuss...? that is what we are talking about .

As for the serve . Serving lot of aces shows that you have a perfect motion serve , Pironkova /Zvonareva was a good match , but it would have much better if both just knew how to serve .

KournikovaFan91
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:39 AM
So you want players to puposefully serve badly in order to make the game interesting?

Are you listening to yourself?
You want one player to not play to the best of her ability in order for you to enjoy the match.

A player worked very hard to develop a shot, and you are saying not use it because it might ruin your tennis watching enjoyment experience?

OMG

Are you serious, I said I don't want the WTA over run with massive servers like the ATP where you have tie break after tie break because nobody can beat anyone elses serve.

My point is constantly serving aces is not good tennis it wins matches but is in no way entertaining, great for people if the have that kind of game but thankfully not many on the WTA do have a big serving game.

If you think the future of WTA tennis is a Isner and Karlovic world and you will enjoy that then fine but I guarantee the general public wont want to watch two women serving ace after ace.

Otlichno
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:40 AM
Since when was relying heavily on you're serve a bad thing, most of you are just denying the obvious, which is that Serena serves herself out of allot of bad situations. I personally find that a good thing, and I'm not much of a Serena fan myself. :shrug:

One second you say, "well all points are started with a serve so it's the most important shot", and than you say "Serena does not need a good serve, the rest of her game would clearly still make her play at this same level".

darrinbaker00
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:44 AM
How is constantly serving aces good tennis :rolleyes:

Pironkova and Zvonareva didnt have amazing serving but was good tennis, you dont need an amazing serve to have an amazing match.

Why are you all so overly defensive to other peoples opinions.
Because your opinion is wrong, that's why. Most of us don't tune in to see poor serving, boatloads of unforced errors and multiple service breaks; that's the type of tennis WE play. These players are the best of the best, and that's the type of tennis most fans (who, by the way, also play the game themselves) want to see.

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:45 AM
OMG

Are you serious, I said I don't want the WTA over run with massive servers like the ATP where you have tie break after tie break because nobody can beat anyone elses serve.

My point is constantly serving aces is not good tennis it wins matches but is in no way entertaining, great for people if the have that kind of game but thankfully not many on the WTA do have a big serving game.

If you think the future of WTA tennis is a Isner and Karlovic world and you will enjoy that then fine but I guarantee the general public wont want to watch two women serving ace after ace.
My point is you are shortsighted.
Where Roddick today?
Eventually players learn how to return his serve.

BTW, Isner was just involved one of the best matches ever.
If you did not watch it becuase of your bias against Isner, you missed an historical match.

Nicolás89
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:48 AM
Yes I read that thread and it was more like a compliment. Any others?

I take back what I said after reading through this thread. :o

Human Nature
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:49 AM
Since when was relying heavily on you're serve a bad thing, most of you are just denying the obvious, which is that Serena serves herself out of allot of bad situations. I personally find that a good thing, and I'm not much of a Serena fan myself. :shrug:

One second you say, "well all points are started with a serve so it's the most important shot", and than you say "Serena does not need a good serve, the rest of her game would clearly still make her play at this same level".


I didnt see any serena fans tell that relying on her serve wasn a good thing , but that with her serve off she still can manage to win a match as she has done throuout her career ...

But yea nothing bad to have a perfect serve of course...:shrug:

KournikovaFan91
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:49 AM
I saw that Isner match and the actual tennis player lost the match. The server won. :rolleyes:

Because your opinion is wrong, that's why. Most of us don't tune in to see poor serving, boatloads of unforced errors and multiple service breaks; that's the type of tennis WE play. These players are the best of the best, and that's the type of tennis most fans (who, by the way, also play the game themselves) want to see.

Then watch the ATP if you want endless tie breaks.

Matt01
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:50 AM
Yea, such vivid imaginations we have.


Well, when you start such a provoking thread like this, of course the haters are coming out.



BTW, Isner was just involved one of the best matches ever.


It was not one of the best matches ever.

Human Nature
Jul 3rd, 2010, 02:53 AM
I saw that Isner match and the actual tennis player lost the match. The server won. :rolleyes:



Then watch the ATP if you want endless tie breaks.

I have never seen ONE ATP tournament in my life where ALL the matches have all ended with that knid of scores 7/6 6/7 7/6 6/7 78/60 .

Loungy
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:02 AM
Are you serious, I said I don't want the WTA over run with massive servers like the ATP where you have tie break after tie break because nobody can beat anyone elses serve.
Why do people talk like most ATP matches are Isner/Mahut-like affairs? :confused: The tb after tb thing doesn't even happen much outside of grass.

ATP's current #1 has a passable serve at best. Half of the top 10 feature in the ROS leaders stats. In fact, Roddick is the only serve-as-only-true-weapon player in the top 10.

tennnisfannn
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:08 AM
Why do people talk like most ATP matches are Isner/Mahut-like affairs? :confused: The tb after tb thing doesn't even happen much outside of grass.

ATP's current #1 has a passable serve at best. Half of the top 10 feature in the ROS leaders stats. In fact, Roddick is the only serve-as-only-true-weapon player in the top 10.
I remember the sampra/agassi uso . the last slam pete won was like 7/6 6/7 7/6 6/7 7/6:devil:
Btw, great servers may win a slam once in a while aka thomas johanssen at the AO but no one player can dominate a tour on serve alone. I cannot believe this thread even exists, serena has won tonnes of mathes in collectin her 12 slams and we know she can play well off the ground or otherwise.

homogenius
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:09 AM
Because your opinion is wrong, that's why. Most of us don't tune in to see poor serving, boatloads of unforced errors and multiple service breaks; that's the type of tennis WE play. These players are the best of the best, and that's the type of tennis most fans (who, by the way, also play the game themselves) want to see.

Serena has the best serve ever and it's great to watch (same with her fighting spirit), but it can't hide the fact that the rest of her game has been deteriorating over the years.Just take the SF : it was much more interesting to see Pironkova using the surface in the smartest way she could and Zvonareva all around game than to watch Serena serving aces and service winners but unable to dictate against Kvitova, failing nearly each time she tried to take the initiative in a point, hitting poor volleys or dropshots that look like lobs (and what happened to her ROS :confused:).
Of course Serena isn't always playing like that, but it's more and more common and grass accentuates this by highlighting her serve even more than on others surfaces.

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:12 AM
I saw that Isner match and the actual tennis player lost the match. The server won. :rolleyes:



.
Mahut did not lose because of serve.
Infact the number of aces were 103 for Mahut, 113 for Isner.
The raw difference of 10, in term of percentage of the respective total is not tha great.

Tech1
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:18 AM
Serena please serve your way to victory!

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:20 AM
It was not one of the best matches ever.
Tennis fans everywhere disagree with you.

Wimbledon organizers thought so.
International Tennis Hall Of Fame thinks so.

Matt01
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:21 AM
Tennis fans everywhere disagree with you.


Lots of people on MTF agree with. German tv tennis commentators agree with me. What you say is not true.

tennisbum79
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:28 AM
Lots of people on MTF agree with. German tv tennis commentators agree with me. What you say is not true.
Well, I will not question your sources since I do not have access to German TV, but the evidence to back my claim is pretty clear.

Wimbledon organizers, newspapers front page around the world, International Tennis Hall Of Fame,
former tennis players, etc...

Matt01
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:30 AM
Well, I will not question your sources since I do not have access to German TV, but the evidence to back my claim is pretty clear.

Wimbledon organizers, newspapers front page around the world, International Tennis Hall Of Fame,
former tennis players, etc...


Of course the Wimbledon organisers are milking that match since it happened at their tournament. The match made history yes, but it was not because its amazing quality.

Human Nature
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:37 AM
Serena has the best serve ever and it's great to watch (same with her fighting spirit), but it can't hide the fact that the rest of her game has been deteriorating over the years.Just take the SF : it was much more interesting to see Pironkova using the surface in the smartest way she could and Zvonareva all around game than to watch Serena serving aces and service winners but unable to dictate against Kvitova, failing nearly each time she tried to take the initiative in a point, hitting poor volleys or dropshots that look like lobs (and what happened to her ROS :confused:).
Of course Serena isn't always playing like that, but it's more and more common and grass accentuates this by highlighting her serve even more than on others surfaces.


Then why do you act as if she plays all the time like that.;? and to back your argument up , you pick up one or two bad matches , to conclude that serena Williams as a tennis player is bad :See her semis .. .

We also can pick other matches of her where she plays good , against Chakvetadze for example , against Jankovic in Madrid , against Stosur in RG the second and thrid set , against Azarenka in Australia that was a fantastic match tennistically and mentaly speaking ..and tons of others matches all over the years , which leads her to great playr battling for the greatest ever from now on .

Picking few very bad matches here and there to back up your arguments and lead to the conclusion that serena Williams is all about her serve is just a dishonest intellectual game .

homogenius
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:50 AM
Then why do you act as if she plays all the time like that.;? and to back your argument up , you pick up one or two bad matches , to conclude that serena Williams as a tennis player is bad :See her semis .. .

We also can pick other matches of her where she plays good , against Chakvetadze for example , against Jankovic in Madrid , against Stosur in RG the second and thrid set , against Azarenka in Australia that was a fantastic match tennistically and mentaly speaking ..and tons of others matches all over the years , which leads her to great playr battling for the greatest ever from now on .

Picking few very bad matches here and there to back up your arguments and lead to the conclusion that serena Williams is all about her serve is just a dishonest intellectual game .

I didn't say she was a bad tennis player :rolleyes:.I said that the rest of her game and her movment are not on par with her serve anymore (most of the time).
The fact that you can provide so few examples (and even then : Chaky really ? :tape:, she showed nothing in the third against Stosur hence why she lost, and played brillantly against Azarenka only from 0-4 down after being outplayed for most of the match)just confirm what I'm saying.
And I don't think anyone here has been judging Serena based on 2 or 3 matches, just aknowledging the fact that she got through a lot of matches the past few years with her serve and incredible fight while the rest of her game was meh (mostly in slams, cause she can't find this intensity outside those and is beaten more often).

Donny
Jul 3rd, 2010, 04:11 AM
[QUOTE=Matt01;18095177]Well, when you start such a provoking thread like this, of course the haters are coming out.




Seven of those posts were not from this thread...

Serena y Monica
Jul 3rd, 2010, 10:06 AM
[quote=Matt01;18095177]Well, when you start such a provoking thread like this, of course the haters are coming out.




Seven of those posts were not from this thread...

haters come out bcos they love 2 hate. What else r they gonna do? Anyone critical of a great serve may as well not watch tennis. For God's sake...you should start the game with a weak shot. This is silly on it's face really not even worthy of discussion.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 3rd, 2010, 10:38 AM
OMG

Are you serious, I said I don't want the WTA over run with massive servers...

You know damn well there is no threat of that happening, so why even say it. It's ridiculous to even imply that given the most recent criticism the WTA has received regarding women's serving. If you don't like Serena or the way she plays just come out and say it. Don't hide behind some :bs: that her serving is going to create a tour of Isners and Karlovics.


If you think the future of WTA tennis is a Isner and Karlovic world and you will enjoy that then fine but I guarantee the general public wont want to watch two women serving ace after ace.
Again, a foolish example. It will be a cold day in hell, given the general state of the serving in the WTA, when the general public is subject to women serving Ace after Ace. :rolleyes:

Btw, How many Slams have Isner and Karlovic won? ...exactly. So, a lot of good all their big serving is doing for them.

Caralenko
Jul 3rd, 2010, 10:44 AM
Btw, How many Slams have Isner and Karlovic won? ...exactly. So, a lot of good all their big serving is doing for them.

Did you just compare WTA return of serves to ATP return of serves? :lol:

LudwigDvorak
Jul 3rd, 2010, 10:47 AM
As I said in another thread, there is no coincidence that the every leading player of their generation, except Evert, arguably also had the best serve.

Court, King, Navratilova, Graf, Serena.

Serena y Monica
Jul 3rd, 2010, 03:20 PM
After watching Serena shine from every aspect of the game in a match she could have lost...can we know put this lunacy to rest? Ps...that second serve win % is redicules. Vera's not pushing her...I think it's her way of punishing herself (subconsiously) for not making the 1st in...lol!