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View Full Version : Serena vs Henin-Choose the Winner in all Surfaces?


Mr.Sharapova
Jun 20th, 2010, 09:56 AM
Comment!!:D

Caralenko
Jun 20th, 2010, 10:01 AM
Serena on everything except clay :shrug:

Rafito.
Jun 20th, 2010, 10:03 AM
Nowadays, I would say Serena would win on clay too. :shrug:

Olórin
Jun 20th, 2010, 10:03 AM
Wasn't that crazy Maria fan @SweetCleopatra a big Chelsea fan? Weird.... :confused:

Tennisstar86
Jun 20th, 2010, 11:02 AM
Wasn't that crazy Maria fan @SweetCleopatra a big Chelsea fan? Weird.... :confused:

Is Sweet Cleo alive on the boards again?!?!?! :sobbing: She was always so much fun until Maria starting losing frequently and her mental stability clearly faltered...... The meltdown was still fun to see....:devil:

timafi
Jun 20th, 2010, 11:13 AM
correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Henin make ALL 4 major finals twice?:confused:

kiwialicat
Jun 20th, 2010, 11:41 AM
Wasn't that crazy Maria fan @SweetCleopatra a big Chelsea fan? Weird.... :confused:

off-topic but I can't stand Chelsea. Sorry, milotimasha but my dislike of them runs deep.

Steven.
Jun 20th, 2010, 11:49 AM
correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Henin make ALL 4 major finals twice?:confused:

AO: Champion (2004), Runner up (2006, 2010)
RG: Champion (2003, 2005, 2006, 2007)
Wim: Runner up (2001, 2006)
USO: Champion (2003, 2007), Runner up (2006)

not like it matters in regards to this topic since Serena's won every slam except Roland Garros 3 times.

Also in their current H2H, Serena leads on hard 5-1, Henin leads on clay 4-1 and equal on grass 1-1. But we all know who's better on grass anyway.

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:31 PM
Justine.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:39 PM
The h2 clearly tells it all imo..clay is for Juju, the rest is for Serena.. since Serena beat Juju on all those surfaces, except clay, even when Juju became GS winner Juju..no excuses like the Juju vs Vee h2h.

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:39 PM
Wasn't that crazy Maria fan @SweetCleopatra a big Chelsea fan? Weird.... :confused:

OMG why is everyone saying to me I'm like similar to that SweetCleopatra or something:lol::lol:I finf it really funny actually at least 10 peoples till now told me that!!:lol:

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:41 PM
off-topic but I can't stand Chelsea. Sorry, milotimasha but my dislike of them runs deep.

But why????Chelsea is a really good team I'm sorry to hear you dislike them I hope you don't dislike me now:lol::lol::lol:!!

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:42 PM
The h2 clearly tells it all imo..clay is for Juju, the rest is for Serena.. since Serena beat Juju on all those surfaces, except clay, even when Juju became GS winner Juju..no excuses like the Juju vs Vee h2h.


What does the H2H tell us about grass? (no excuses allowed) :scratch:

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:43 PM
Is Sweet Cleo alive on the boards again?!?!?! :sobbing: She was always so much fun until Maria starting losing frequently and her mental stability clearly faltered...... The meltdown was still fun to see....:devil:


No I'm not SweetCleo :lol::lol::lol:Can someone tell me What is so similar with my posts and hers so you can assume that I'm her:oAnd why did she had a Meltdown:confused::confused:

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:44 PM
The h2 clearly tells it all imo..clay is for Juju, the rest is for Serena.. since Serena beat Juju on all those surfaces, except clay, even when Juju became GS winner Juju..no excuses like the Juju vs Vee h2h.

But remember it's only the Slams that count according to you, which means Henin leads the "real" H2H 4-3. :)

AnDrEi.b
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:45 PM
Serena on everything except clay :shrug:

Agree

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:46 PM
But remember it's only the Slams that count according to you, which means Henin leads the "real" H2H 4-3. :)


I remember Justine beat Serena in three Quarter-Finals back-to-back in Slams in 2007 right:rolleyes:

Olórin
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:53 PM
What does the H2H tell us about grass? (no excuses allowed) :scratch:

That Serena is better because she has won more sets, 3-2. Next comment clown...

Uranus
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:55 PM
Not another of these threads :bigcry:.

It is pretty clear: Justine on clay, Serena on hard and grass. Every other option is just WRONG.

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 12:58 PM
Anyway, I say if both are playing at their peaks, it would be Justine on clay, fast hard and indoors, Serena on grass and slow hard.

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 01:02 PM
That Serena is better because she has won more sets, 3-2. Next comment clown...


Since when is it about the won sets? :confused:

Jajaloo
Jun 20th, 2010, 01:05 PM
If they played tommorow, Serena would win on every surface. It would be a set error fest on clay though.

Volcana
Jun 20th, 2010, 01:15 PM
If I'm choosing the winner NOW, it's Serena on every surface. Henin clearly hasn't regained her pre-retirement form. Serena isn't the player she was in 2002, but she the title holder in two of the for slams, and is QF, SF in the other two. (NOTE: She's made the QF os the last two RGs).

Until Henin shows me she's approaching the form she had before she retired, I can only judge Henin 2.0. Henin 2.0 has not performed exceptionally well on clay. I know it goes hard to say that four RG titles don't count, but I think Serena would beat Chris Evert or Monica Seles on clay now too.

Kim Clijsters has shown that she's capable of her pre-retirement level of play on her best surface. Henin has not.

GreenEvgeny
Jun 20th, 2010, 01:15 PM
Young Rena could beat Henin on clay

RG Freak
Jun 20th, 2010, 01:34 PM
I think Serena would beat Chris Evert or Monica Seles on clay now too.

Serena Williams can not even beat Jankovic, Stosur, or Petrova on clay, and struggles against Vera Dushevina, and hasn't beat a Top 10 player on clay in how many years? No way she would beat Monica Seles.

On topic
Clay: Henin, hard and grass: Williams

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 01:56 PM
:lol: Not dsanders again? I thought we already solved that problem.
4-3 for Juju...2 clay wins, 1 grass and 1 hc. Serena 2 hc wins and 1 grass...just as the h2h shows, no?

Serena is the better one on hc's, they've only played twice on grass..and Juju managed to get a win in there.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 01:58 PM
Anyway, I say if both are playing at their peaks, it would be Justine on clay, fast hard and indoors, Serena on grass and slow hard.

Based on what? Look at their h2h man. U r the stat man, so wy are you talking non-sense now?

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 02:40 PM
Based on what? Look at their h2h man. U r the stat man, so wy are you talking non-sense now?

Based on thefact that I believe that, if both are playing their best, Henin would beat Serena on those surfaces. It's not like Serena has done much better than Henin at the USO, and Henin DEFINITELY has a better record indoors.

SymphonyX
Jun 20th, 2010, 02:53 PM
I remember Justine beat Serena in three Quarter-Finals back-to-back in Slams in 2007 right:rolleyes:

2006 to 2007 was Henin's best two years. She was in 6 out of 8 finals in those two years and she won 3 of them.

I'd have to stay though, she would've been in 7 out of eight finals if James Bond himself didn't come to spoil things in Wimbledon 2007. 007 inspired the cake monster in 2007.

Once Justine left, Serena took over. I'm still convinced Henin can best Serena on clay and hardcourts, but not grass.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 02:56 PM
Based on thefact that I believe that, if both are playing their best, Henin would beat Serena on those surfaces. It's not like Serena has done much better than Henin at the USO, and Henin DEFINITELY has a better record indoors.

:haha: Sure, u BELIEVE that..that much we got. Doesn't make it REALITY though. In reality Serena has done much better than Juju at the Open. 4 finals, lots of QF's and a SF.

Serena doesn't play indoors that much..but when she plays it's pretty good no? A title and RU at the YEC, finals at Moscow. Not bad, not bad.

zxcVbnm88
Jun 20th, 2010, 03:22 PM
Serena on everything except clay :shrug:

agree

Gdsimmons
Jun 20th, 2010, 03:28 PM
Justine on clay and Serena on hard courts and grass. Simple as that

sweetpeas
Jun 20th, 2010, 03:35 PM
Serena on everything except clay.


Total agree.

Mightymirza
Jun 20th, 2010, 03:37 PM
:yawn:

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:06 PM
A title and RU at the YEC, finals at Moscow. Not bad, not bad.

But not as good as Justine. If, according to you, records are everything, you would have to say Justine is better indoors.

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:13 PM
Based on thefact that I believe that, if both are playing their best, Henin would beat Serena on those surfaces. It's not like Serena has done much better than Henin at the USO, and Henin DEFINITELY has a better record indoors.

Serena has:

3 wins

A final

A semi

3 quarterfinals

Justine has:

2 wins

a final

Serena is CLEARLY superior. You're contradicting your own metrics of grand slam success. Not surprising, though.

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:17 PM
Serena has:

3 wins

A final

A semi

3 quarterfinals

Justine has:

2 wins

a final

Serena is CLEARLY superior. You're contradicting your own metrics of grand slam success. Not surprising, though.

I said Serena hasn't done MUCH better than Justine.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:18 PM
But not as good as Justine. If, according to you, records are everything, you would have to say Justine is better indoors.

Since the sample for Serena is so limited and Juju actually bothered to play, I can't argue with the stats.

Although, history shows that the faster the surface the less likelier it is for Juju to beat Serena..

But ok, no data to really back the indoor match-up.

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:19 PM
Since the sample for Serena is so limited and Juju actually bothered to play, I can't argue with the stats.

Although, history shows that the faster the surface the less likelier it is for Juju to beat Serena..

But ok, no data to really back the indoor match-up.

I don't see how history shows that atall... Serena does historically better on slower hardcourts (Australian Open, Miami), and Justine historically does better on fast hardcourts than slow hard.

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:24 PM
I said Serena hasn't done MUCH better than Justine.

One more win, one more semi, and three more quarterfinals isn't much better?

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:26 PM
I said Serena hasn't done MUCH better than Justine.

What? Those stats aren't much better?

Wow, then what were we even discussing then in the ClaySerena vs Grassjuju then? Because the stats at the Open are even more lopsidied than those...and yet you insisted that Juju on grass was clearly superior than Serena on clay.

Man, your bias is really too sad for words.

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:28 PM
If we're going to be putting an asterisk next to Serena's indoors record because she apparently "hasn't played indoors much", surely you should want to put an asterisk by Justine's USO record due to the fact she's played there about half the times Serena has? :shrug:

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:32 PM
If we're going to be putting an asterisk next to Serena's indoors record because she apparently "hasn't played indoors much", surely you should want to put an asterisk by Justine's USO record due to the fact she's played there about half the times Serena has? :shrug:

And yet Serena has still managed to maintain a better winning percentage there despite playing much more. She's also managed to avoid losing in the first round in 11 tries, while Jsutine couldn't manage that feat in only 9 tries.

And since when is 9 'half' of 11?

volta
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:32 PM
God this dsanders dude is annoying

AnywhereButHome
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Grass: Serena
Hard : Serena
Carpet : Serena
Clay : Serena

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:35 PM
I stand corrected on how many times they've both played the USO.

But anyway, if you factor in other events, namely the USO Series / Olympics, Justine is ahead on fast hard, and indoors it's not even close. I acknowledge Serena is well ahead on slow hard (Australia/IW/Miami).

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:37 PM
I stand corrected on how many times they've both played the USO.

But anyway, if you factor in other events, namely the USO Series / Olympics, Justine is ahead on fast hard, and indoors it's not even close. I acknowledge Serena is well ahead on slow hard (Australia/IW/Miami).

Why do you divide up hard but not the other surfaces? Why not divide grass into fast and slow grass, for instance? Or fast and slow clay?

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:39 PM
Why do you divide up hard but not the other surfaces? Why not divide grass into fast and slow grass, for instance? Or fast and slow clay?

Tennis analysts regularly divide hard court events into slow and fast, mainly because there's so many h/c events. :shrug: On clay, there isn't THAT much difference between the court speeds (except maybe Rome, which is considered quite a bit faster than RG) except obviously for green clay.

narutos
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:41 PM
Grass: Serena
Hard : Serena
Carpet : Serena
Clay : Serena

Water : Serena
Ice : Serena

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:41 PM
You guys should just do the decent thing and put dsanders on ignore. :happy:

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:43 PM
Tennis analysts regularly divide hard court events into slow and fast, mainly because there's so many h/c events. :shrug: On clay, there isn't THAT much difference between the court speeds (except maybe Rome, which is considered quite a bit faster than RG) except obviously for green clay.

Nonsense. At RG alone the different courts play at visibly different speeds. Same for the different grass events.

narutos
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:44 PM
You guys should just do the decent thing and put dsanders on ignore. :happy:

And why?
Her arguments are correct. Henin's record on fast HC and indoors is better than Serena's one.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:45 PM
I don't see how history shows that atall... Serena does historically better on slower hardcourts (Australian Open, Miami), and Justine historically does better on fast hardcourts than slow hard.

That's compared to herself not to Juju, no? Because then you'll have to admit that Juju does much better on clay than other surfaces, no? It's relatively speaking.

But if it is about Serena vs Juju h2h..the faster the surface, the likelier for Serena to win. Watch the h2h man.

Tennisstar86
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:46 PM
I stand corrected on how many times they've both played the USO.

But anyway, if you factor in other events, namely the USO Series / Olympics, Justine is ahead on fast hard, and indoors it's not even close. I acknowledge Serena is well ahead on slow hard (Australia/IW/Miami).

Since when is Miami a slow hard court?

AcesHigh
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Since when is Miami a slow hard court?

Everyone knows that....it definitely ain't a fast hc. It's medium paced at best

narutos
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Since when is Miami a slow hard court?

It is definitely not fast.

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Nonsense. At RG alone the different courts play at visibly different speeds. Same for the different grass events.

You really think that's as significant as the difference between the speeds at the Australian Open and the US Open? People always used to talk about how the difference between how Seles played at the AO and USO was vastly different.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:49 PM
If we're going to be putting an asterisk next to Serena's indoors record because she apparently "hasn't played indoors much", surely you should want to put an asterisk by Justine's USO record due to the fact she's played there about half the times Serena has? :shrug:

Asterisk? I didn't say anything about asterisks....just that I can't argue with the stats.

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:49 PM
I don't see why the courts at Hamburg and the court on Chatrier should be grouped as one uniform surface while Miami and the US Open aren't.

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:51 PM
I don't see why the courts at Hamburg and the court on Chatrier should be grouped as one uniform surface while Miami and the US Open aren't.

Hamburg is/was if anything slightly slower than the FO... Rome would be a better example, although it still doesn't come close to the discrepancies between the h/c events.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:52 PM
And why?
Her arguments are correct. Henin's record on fast HC and indoors is better than Serena's one.

:haha: How so? On fast hardcourts...Serena won more u.s. opens and has a better record overall. Indoors, I give that to Juju..just because she actually played on the surface and Serena hasn't.

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:52 PM
But if it is about Serena vs Juju h2h..the faster the surface, the likelier for Serena to win. Watch the h2h man.


The H2H says otherwise :shrug:

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:54 PM
:haha: How so? On fast hardcourts...Serena won more u.s. opens and has a better record overall. Indoors, I give that to Juju..just because she actually played on the surface and Serena hasn't.

Justine has an Olympics and two Canada Masters to her name on fast hard... I believe Serena has only ever won one Tier One on fast hard / indoors combined.

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:54 PM
The H2H says otherwise :shrug:

Explain how Serena leads the h2h despite Justine leading the h2h on the slowest surface (clay).

AcesHigh
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:55 PM
btw, I think all hardcourts should be grouped as one except rebound ace.

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:56 PM
btw, I think all hardcourts should be grouped as one except rebound ace.

Co-sign.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:56 PM
The H2H says otherwise :shrug:

What's the h2? 9-6 now?

4 wins for Juju on clay..out of 5 matches.
1-1 on grass
1-7 on hardcourts..

what more is there left to say?

Even after Juju won her first major..split on grass, 3-1 for Serena on hardcourts.

Tennisstar86
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:56 PM
I don't see why the courts at Hamburg and the court on Chatrier should be grouped as one uniform surface while Miami and the US Open aren't.

Thats my point. I'm trying to figure out why Miami and the Austrailian open are grouped together yet the Us Open series/ Us Open and Olympics (which use different courts everytime) Just because Serena as wont the other ones? But Dsanders has no point....

W/W/W/F/SF/QF/QF/QF>>> W/W/F/4r/4r/4r/4r

I dont care how many ways you try to spin it....

narutos
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:56 PM
:haha: How so? On fast hardcourts...Serena won more u.s. opens and has a better record overall. Indoors, I give that to Juju..just because she actually played on the surface and Serena hasn't.

Now Serena hasn't played on indoors it's not because she ain't winning that means she is not playing.

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:57 PM
btw, I think all hardcourts should be grouped as one except rebound ace.

I disagree... IW/Miami are far closer to Rebound Ace than to the USO surface. Hell, even the new Australian surface isn't really slower or faster than Rebound Ace, although the bounce is a little lower.

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:59 PM
I disagree... IW/Miami are far closer to Rebound Ace than to the USO surface. Hell, even the new Australian surface isn't really slower or faster than Rebound Ace, although the bounce is a little lower.

And Rome courts are closer to green clay than they are to Hamburg courts. Do you want to group Rome and green clay together?

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:59 PM
Thats my point. I'm trying to figure out why Miami and the Austrailian open are grouped together yet the Us Open series/ Us Open and Olympics (which use different courts everytime) Just because Serena as wont the other ones? But Dsanders has no point....

W/W/W/F/SF/QF/QF/QF>>> W/W/F/4r/4r/4r/4r

I dont care how many ways you try to spin it....

The Athens surface in 2004 was iirc fast. And in 2008, Beijing used the USO surface. I don't know about anything before that, though I'd assume Sydney in 2000 was played on a slow surface.

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:59 PM
Explain how Serena leads the h2h despite Justine leading the h2h on the slowest surface (clay).


Serena doesn't lead the H2H on grass which is the fastest surface :shrug:

I think we can all agree that grass is the fastest surface?

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 04:59 PM
And Rome courts are closer to green clay than they are to Hamburg courts. Do you want to group Rome and green clay together?

No, they're not.

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Serena doesn't lead the H2H on grass which is the fastest surface :shrug:

I think we can all agree that grass is the fastest surface?

Wimbledon hasn't been playing faster than the USO in recent years.

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:01 PM
Co-sign.


Co-sign.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:01 PM
Justine has an Olympics and two Canada Masters to her name on fast hard... I believe Serena has only ever won one Tier One on fast hard / indoors combined.

Nice, nice...still Serena's record at the most important of them all, U.S. open, that's it no..

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:01 PM
Wimbledon hasn't been playing faster than the USO in recent years.

Although Wimbledon is maybe now a bit slower than the USO (maybe), Wimbledon still definitely has a much lower bounce.

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:02 PM
Nice, nice...still Serena's record at the most important of them all, U.S. open, that's it no..

Serena's record at the USO is indeed superior, but Justine's record at other fast hard events is so far ahead that I believe that puts her ahead overall.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:03 PM
LOL!!

Serena on every surface except clay!

I don't see why people are having such a hard time with this! :happy:

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:04 PM
Wimbledon hasn't been playing faster than the USO in recent years.


I knew that we wouldn't agree on that :lol:

narutos
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:05 PM
Although Wimbledon is maybe now a bit slower than the USO (maybe), Wimbledon still definitely has a much lower bounce.

Wimbledon is definitely slower you won't see Nadal reaching USO final soon, thank God though.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:12 PM
Serena's record at the USO is indeed superior, but Justine's record at other fast hard events is so far ahead that I believe that puts her ahead overall.

What other events? Serena has a Canada title too...so that only leaves that Olympics for Juju.

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:14 PM
Canadian Open are (arguably) played on slow hardcourt as well :lol:

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:15 PM
Wimbledon is definitely slower you won't see Nadal reaching USO final soon, thank God though.


That does not necessarily have to do with court speed.

Volcana
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:17 PM
Serena Williams can not even beat Jankovic, Stosur, or Petrova on clay, and struggles against Vera Dushevina, and hasn't beat a Top 10 player on clay in how many years? No way she would beat Monica Seles.Monica Seles is 38 years old, and hasn't played a set of professional tennis is six or seven yeas. Of couse Serena would beat her..

I tried to be as specific in my post as I could. Absent gueswork, the thread is about NOW, not 'at their peaks'. Serena would beat Hellen Wills Moody too. She's dead.

Henin 2.0 is a real entity, with a track record over the past six months over every surface except grass. THAT is whom I comparing to the #1 ranked player in the world.

dsanders06
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:21 PM
What other events? Serena has a Canada title too...so that only leaves that Olympics for Juju.

Justine has TWO Canada titles, plus 4 Dubai titles (which usually attracted more than half the top 10) and a couple of other Tier 2's like San Diego. I just glanced over Serena's record, and the only Tier 2 I could see on fast outdoor hard was LA from like 1999.


Monica Seles is 38 years old, and hasn't played a set of professional tennis is six or seven yeas. Of couse Serena would beat her..

I tried to be as specific in my post as I could. Absent gueswork, the thread is about NOW, not 'at their peaks'. Serena would beat Hellen Wills Moody too. She's dead.

Henin 2.0 is a real entity, with a track record over the past six months over every surface except grass. THAT is whom I comparing to the #1 ranked player in the world.

It's not like Serena has done that great over the last 6 months apart from her AO title either...

Volcana
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:30 PM
It's not like Serena has done that great over the last 6 months apart from her AO title either...I completely agree. But I can look at Serena over the last twelve months, which is what her ranking reflects, and get a picture that looks like an elite player. Henin 2.0 is .... Marion Bartoli. A good player. Not a historical player.

If you want this thead to work, you have to specify some parameters. Taking a elite player who retired for a year and a half, and then posted so-so results, vs an elite player who plays less than any elite player this side of Steffi Graf, isn't compaing apples and oranges. It's comparing music and the moon. If Henin had come back trying to win RG (which IMHO, she clearly didn't), this a whole different discussion.

Henin and Serena are both, because of how they've chosen to treat their careers, difficult players to measure against others. Measuring them against each other is ..... subjective, at best.

RG Freak
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:51 PM
Monica Seles is 38 years old, and hasn't played a set of professional tennis is six or seven yeas. Of couse Serena would beat her..

I tried to be as specific in my post as I could. Absent gueswork, the thread is about NOW, not 'at their peaks'. Serena would beat Hellen Wills Moody too. She's dead.

Henin 2.0 is a real entity, with a track record over the past six months over every surface except grass. THAT is whom I comparing to the #1 ranked player in the world.
Well, that's true. I get your point now.

RG Freak
Jun 20th, 2010, 05:59 PM
BTW, in 2002 it was Williams on all surface, in 2007 it was Henin on all surface.
But NOW it's Henin on clay (even if she did not win RG), Williams on hard, and we will see what happens in Wimbledon (probably S. Williams will do better than Henin, but you never know...)

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 06:16 PM
BTW, in 2002 it was Williams on all surface, in 2007 it was Henin on all surface.
But NOW it's Henin on clay (even if she did not win RG), Williams on hard, and we will see what happens in Wimbledon (probably S. Williams will do better than Henin, but you never know...)

Serena did better than Henin at Roland Garros.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jun 20th, 2010, 06:20 PM
Serena did better than Henin at Roland Garros.

And Serena had match point against the player who beat Henin.

Henin wasn't close to having a match point :lol:

So I guess Serena on all surfaces (defending Wimbledon Champ > MM Grass title)!

kickserve
Jun 20th, 2010, 06:35 PM
If we are going on current form, I am going to say Serena on all but clay.

You can't use their performance against Stosur as a measure of how they would fare against each other.
Tennis doesn't follow syllogism. Just because player A fared better against player B than player C did, doesn't mean player A will beat player C. Different matchup.

RG Freak
Jun 20th, 2010, 06:37 PM
Serena did better than Henin at Roland Garros.
Well yeah, she won one more round than Henin... but lost to the same player.

And Serena had match point against the player who beat Henin.

Henin wasn't close to having a match point :lol:

So I guess Serena on all surfaces (defending Wimbledon Champ > MM Grass title)!
And Serena could have lost to Sam Stosur 6:2 6:3, but Stosur choked.

Now I'm off from this thread to avoid a pointless fight. I'm not a fan of either Henin or Serena Williams.

LudwigDvorak
Jun 20th, 2010, 06:50 PM
btw, I think all hardcourts should be grouped as one except rebound ace.

Why? There is a distinct difference between Plexicushion and DecoTurf. Some players can succeed on one, but not the other.

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 07:15 PM
Why? There is a distinct difference between Plexicushion and DecoTurf. Some players can succeed on one, but not the other.

Examples?

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2010, 07:19 PM
I completely agree. But I can look at Serena over the last twelve months, which is what her ranking reflects, and get a picture that looks like an elite player. Henin 2.0 is .... Marion Bartoli. A good player. Not a historical player.


No offense, but I find it insulting to compare Henin (even after her comeback) to Bartoli. Please tell me when Bartoli took a long time off the tour, and then came back and reached a Slam final and win two tournaments in the first 6 months after her comeback. In those first 6 months, Henin already almost achieved what Bartoli achieved in her whole career. I also didn't remember when Bartoli was ever #1 in the Champions Race.

:weirdo:

LudwigDvorak
Jun 20th, 2010, 07:21 PM
Examples?

Jankovic, Wozniacki, Venus, Clijsters are more of a threat on DecoTurf.

Ivanovic is definitely better on a medium court like Plexicushion.


If you take them against another Top 10 player on Plexicushion and then take them against that same player on DecoTurf, the chances for them to win are NOT exactly the same for sure.

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 07:38 PM
Well for Serena it don't really matter..she's won big on both surfaces, no?

DefyingGravity
Jun 20th, 2010, 07:46 PM
Depends on which Justine.

Justine 1.0 vs. Serena 1.0

AO - Serena
RG - Justine
Wim - Serena
USO - toss up

Justine 2.0 vs. Serena

AO - Serena
RG - Toss-up
Wim - Serena
USO - Toss-up

AcesHigh
Jun 20th, 2010, 08:14 PM
Why? There is a distinct difference between Plexicushion and DecoTurf. Some players can succeed on one, but not the other.

There are so many variations between surfaces.. if you want to get down to it, the clay plays differently at different tournaments, so does the grass... the altitude at some tournaments creates problems, etc..

How different are these hardcourts to make that much of a difference in play? And if you want to categorize hardcourt, will we do the same for clay and grass?

bandabou
Jun 20th, 2010, 09:02 PM
Depends on which Justine.

Justine 1.0 vs. Serena 1.0

AO - Serena
RG - Justine
Wim - Serena
USO - toss up

Justine 2.0 vs. Serena

AO - Serena
RG - Toss-up
Wim - Serena
USO - Toss-up

Hmmm..not bad.

Inger67
Jun 20th, 2010, 09:31 PM
No Poll? :confused:

Donny
Jun 20th, 2010, 09:40 PM
There are so many variations between surfaces.. if you want to get down to it, the clay plays differently at different tournaments, so does the grass... the altitude at some tournaments creates problems, etc..

How different are these hardcourts to make that much of a difference in play? And if you want to categorize hardcourt, will we do the same for clay and grass?

Agree completely. I made the same argument earlier.

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 20th, 2010, 10:49 PM
No Poll? :confused:

I thought of Making one but at the end I decided to leave the Users Commentate on the topic and I think I made the right Decision:rolleyes:

Lulu.
Jun 21st, 2010, 04:08 AM
Serena on any and every surface except clay.

RG Freak
Jun 21st, 2010, 01:37 PM
Seriously, this is laughable :lol: I got bad reputation for this post:
Well yeah, she won one more round than Henin... but lost to the same player.

And Serena could have lost to Sam Stosur 6:2 6:3, but Stosur choked.

Now I'm off from this thread to avoid a pointless fight. I'm not a fan of either Henin or Serena Williams.