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View Full Version : Chauvinism about Wimbledon seeding is disgusting


LightWarrior
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:26 PM
- Champion Roger Federer will be number one seed for next week's Wimbledon championships despite being overtaken in the world rankings by Rafael Nadal. Fair I guess
- Andy Roddick, three times runner-up to Federer, including last year, is seeded fifth in the men's draw, against his world ranking of seven. A little bit far-fetched, this guy has never won Wimbledon
- Lleyton Hewitt, the 2002 champion is seeded 11 places higher than his 26 ATP ranking. That takes the cake.

In that case Sharapova should be seeded higher, Safina and especially Henin (twice a finalist) should be among the the top 16 seeds. Just imagine if Venus was 3 in the WTA rankings, behind Jankovic and Caro. I'm sure she wouldn't have been bumped. Disgusting.

Justin SW
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:28 PM
Lleyton Hewitt is ridiculous.

Andy Roddick should have been 4th. He made 3 finals there and had pretty much only decent results there. Where as Murray ... :S and Djokovic ... :S!

edificio
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:28 PM
It is hard to get worked up about this. Both Roger an Rafa will both do well, I suspect.

LightWarrior
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:31 PM
It is hard to get worked up about this. Both Roger an Rafa will both do well, I suspect.

That is not the point about Roger being bumped, which I think is fair. It's about the rest of the field.

edificio
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:34 PM
That is not the point about Roger being bumped, which I think is fair. It's about the rest of the field.

They all have to beat Roger or Rafa.

Djokovic may be a bit high, but I can't see dropping him.

Corswandt
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:37 PM
FAIL thread.

Wimbledon is the only Slam to apply a seedings adjustment formula based on a player's previous surface specific results (grass).

The formula is applied only to the top 32 players based on their rankings just prior to the event.

They take the player's entry ATP points (the week before Wimby) and add:

1) ADD 100% points earned for ALL grass court tournaments in the past 12 months.

2)ADD 75% points earned for BEST grass court tournament in the 12 months before that.

No chauvinism, nobody was "bumped". They just used a fair, objective formula - something I think should also be done at RG, and for the women at the English Open.

It's on the women's side that the organizers sometimes bump a particular player up.

LightWarrior
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:38 PM
They all have to beat Roger or Rafa.

Djokovic may be a bit high, but I can't see dropping him.

Don't you get it ? This thead is about women players being devalued compared to men. Oh and this is the wta forum btw. :help:

LightWarrior
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:41 PM
FAIL thread.



No chauvinism, nobody was "bumped". They just used a fair, objective formula - something I think should also be done at RG, and for the women at the English Open.

All I'm talking about here...:rolleyes: (lol at the English Open :lol:)

edificio
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:42 PM
Don't you get it ? This thead is about women players being devalued compared to men. Oh and this is the wta forum btw. :help:

Don't you get it? You are whining about nothing. Does not matter at all.

In The Zone
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:42 PM
There was no reason to bump any player on the women's side this year considering Venus is #2 in the world. Venus would have been the only one.

Uranus
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:43 PM
Nadal's seeding will motivate him to prove he should've been placed accordingly, I suspect.

LightWarrior
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:44 PM
FAIL thread.



No chauvinism, nobody was "bumped". They just used a fair, objective formula - something I think should also be done at RG, and for the women at the English Open.

It's on the women's side that the organizers sometimes bump a particular player up.

Btw, YOU FAIL. Sharapova was bumped last year, so was Venus a few years ago.

Mightymirza
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:47 PM
Its really weird... But again Pova and Juju are both coming off a bigg layoff. They already bumped pova in the past and we all know the result :tape:

Corswandt
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:47 PM
Btw, YOU FAIL. Sharapova was bumped last year, so was Venus a few years ago.

It's on the women's side that the organizers sometimes bump a particular player up.

:confused:

Hurley
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Btw, YOU FAIL. Sharapova was bumped last year, so was Venus a few years ago.

:speakles:


It's on the women's side that the organizers sometimes bump a particular player up.

epicfails999 strikes again. In fact I'm pretty sure he started the same exact thread in 2009.

young_gunner913
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:48 PM
There was no reason to bump any player on the women's side this year considering Venus is #2 in the world. Venus would have been the only one.

Exactly.

gc-spurs
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Btw, YOU FAIL. Sharapova was bumped last year, so was Venus a few years ago.

They weren't bumped according to a formula, which was that point.

Hurley
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:53 PM
How dare they use an allegedly "objective" system like MATH to figure out the men's seeds? What is this "math" that they speak of? What has "math" ever done for me, or for the rest of the world? Math is fallible. Math is inconsistent. If you think about it, 2 plus 2 rarely equals 4, if ever. If ever!

Corswandt
Jun 16th, 2010, 11:54 PM
My last contribution to this thread, which I'll leave to let other people laugh at alwaysfails999:

There are many differences between the ATP rankings and the English Open seedings on the men's side because a formula is used, and it affects all top 32 players in the same way.

On the women's side, there is no way to make such wholesale changes since the Seeding Committee will only alter seedings (quote) in exceptional circumstances (unquote). This has typically meant a lone player with exceptionally good results at Wimbledon in the past but a fairly low ranking being bumped up in the seedings.

LightWarrior
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:02 AM
It's on the women's side that the organizers sometimes bump a particular player up.

"Sometimes" ? According to what rules ? No rules on the women's side. Chauvinism. That's what I'm talking about.

Nicolás89
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:02 AM
Why bump Hewitt when he'll lose before the second week? :shrug:

Hurley
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:05 AM
Why bump Hewitt when he'll lose before the second week? :shrug:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=17987550&postcount=6

Sigh.

LightWarrior
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:06 AM
My last contribution to this thread, which I'll leave to let other people laugh at alwaysfails999:

There are many differences between the ATP rankings and the English Open seedings on the men's side because a formula is used, and it affects all top 32 players in the same way.

On the women's side, there is no way to make such wholesale changes since the Seeding Committee will only alter seedings (quote) in exceptional circumstances (unquote). This has typically meant a lone player with exceptionally good results at Wimbledon in the past but a fairly low ranking being bumped up in the seedings.

You must be an old stubborn cranky hypocritical man to talk like that. "Exceptionally", "sometimes"...:help:...the English Open....How old are you and in what era do you live in ?

Nicolás89
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:09 AM
http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=17987550&postcount=6

Sigh.

I mean, where's the point on it? Sigh.

Amalgamate
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:14 AM
Even if they used the men's formula for the women, Sharapova would not have a different ranking. In fact, she might even be seeded lower :help: And Henin hasn't even played the last two years.

In The Zone
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:14 AM
Jesus. Use your freaking brains. Seeds are not bumped for the freaking sake of bumping.

On the men's side, there is a huge discrepancy in the form and play of the players from grass and other surfaces. See: Lopez, Federer, Roddick. The bumps are necessary to create a fair draw.

On the women's side, there is not a huge discrepancy. The bumping is not necessary unless in a rare circumstance where ranking clearly does not equal proper seed. See: V.Williams.

danieln1
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:14 AM
I only remember they bumped Serena in 2004, Maria last year, and Venus some other years, all of them former champs...

But I think Henin should have been seeded in the top 16 seeds...

harloo
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:15 AM
That is not the point about Roger being bumped, which I think is fair. It's about the rest of the field.

The fact remains that Wimbledon is the only Grand Slam that follows their own instincts. If Maria and Lleyton want to be seeded higher they need to improve their rankings. I see nothing wrong with the seeding here. :confused:

In The Zone
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:18 AM
I only remember they bumped Serena in 2004, Maria last year, and Venus some other years, all of them former champs...

But I think Henin should have been seeded in the top 16 seeds...

Serena was never bumped. She had a protected ranking which at the time also applied to seedings. That rule no longer exists.

Hurley
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:21 AM
Jesus. Use your freaking brains.

Do you see who's posting in here? They ARE. :unsure:

LightWarrior
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:22 AM
On the men's side, there is a huge discrepancy in the form and play of the players from grass and other surfaces. See: Lopez, Federer, Roddick.



Lopez lost to a nobody at Eastbourne 1st round yesterday.

LightWarrior
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:25 AM
The fact remains that Wimbledon is the only Grand Slam that follows their own instincts. If Maria and Lleyton want to be seeded higher they need to improve their rankings. I see nothing wrong with the seeding here. :confused:

Lleyton is bumped 11 up. Get you info right.:help:

1jackson2001
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:34 AM
Lleyton is bumped 11 up. Get you info right.:help:
How is it chauvinistic that the women actually get SUBJECTIVELY bumped (which they do at times) when they never bump the men subjectively? In fact, if anything, it's the women that get preferential treatment.

The men have to go by a formula. You want the women to go by the formula? Go ahead...you will see that it does nothing to change the women's seedings. Example: go look at the freakin' formula...Henin has no results from grass last year or the year before. The formula takes into account form on grass in the last 2 years. Take a look at Sharapova's last two years on grass and see how many bonus points she gets from using that formula. She won't get bumped either.

1jackson2001
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:37 AM
Don't you get it ? This thead is about women players being devalued compared to men. Oh and this is the wta forum btw. :help:

So? We liking women's tennis means we have to be devoid of logic?

debby
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:39 AM
I only remember they bumped Serena in 2004, Maria last year, and Venus some other years, all of them former champs...

But I think Henin should have been seeded in the top 16 seeds...

If Maria didn't FAIL last year, I am sure they would have bumped Henin ;)

debby
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:41 AM
Lopez lost to a nobody at Eastbourne 1st round yesterday.

Please, he beat Nadal at the Queens.

Lleyton is bumped 11 up. Get you info right.:help:

Oh, they are telling you THERE IS A FUCKING FORMULA FOR FUCKING BUMPING THE FUCKING PLAYERS :weirdo:
You are so annoying.

spencercarlos
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:41 AM
Lopez lost to a nobody at Eastbourne 1st round yesterday.
But he beat world number one last week, and has been QF list at Wimbledon.. duh...

LightWarrior
Jun 17th, 2010, 12:50 AM
But he beat world number one last week, and has been QF list at Wimbledon.. duh...

So let Li Na be the #1 seed because she defended her title at Birmingham... duh...

darrinbaker00
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:21 AM
So let Li Na be the #1 seed because she defended her title at Birmingham... duh...
Please take your meds. PLEASE.

hdfb
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:29 AM
I didn't realise nothingfails999 was that much of a troll until now :hysteric:

Re: Maria - she has done practically nothing on grass or the tour in fact, the past two years.
Re: Justine - was not even watching women's tennis if she is to be believed in the past two years.

Why would any of them warrant a seeding bump? Again, FORMULA.

1jackson2001
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:32 AM
It's ok, nothingfails999 doesn't understand what a formula is, and didn't realize that his/her beloved WTA players wouldn't have been bumped even if the same formula were applied.

Renalicious
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:33 AM
Hewitt getting bumped up so high is weird. Hasnt won it since 2002. :help: But still, I think he needs a good draw to go deep. He's always facing Nadal or Federer in these early rounds. Maybe this will do him good.

Renalicious
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:35 AM
Example: go look at the freakin' formula...Henin has no results from grass last year or the year before. The formula takes into account form on grass in the last 2 years.

Why did she get bumped last year then? In 2008 she made a 2r and 2007 a 4r. Hardly "bumping" material.... :tape:

1jackson2001
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:44 AM
Why did she get bumped last year then? In 2008 she made a 2r and 2007 a 4r. Hardly "bumping" material.... :tape:

Because for the women, it's a choice by the committee...it's not done by formula like the men.

Which actually further proves my point against nothingfails999...if he/she wants things to be equal between men and women, the women would actually be even LESS bumped. They bumped it last year. If they followed the formula like for the men, Maria wouldn't even be bumped last year to begin with.

tennisforadults
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:52 AM
"Sometimes" ? According to what rules ? No rules on the women's side. Chauvinism. That's what I'm talking about.

Talk about over-reacting. Are you a bra-burning feminist?

I'm not sure how the fact that they didn't apply a mathematical formula on the womens' side 'demeans' them in any way. It's still mathematical - going by rankings!

Renalicious
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:53 AM
Because for the women, it's a choice by the committee...it's not done by formula like the men.

Which actually further proves my point against nothingfails999...if he/she wants things to be equal between men and women, the women would actually be even LESS bumped. They bumped it last year. If they followed the formula like for the men, Maria wouldn't even be bumped last year to begin with.

Ohhh. I get it now. ;)

Sp!ffy
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:57 AM
I understood why they bumped Maria last year. Even though she didn't have great recent results on grass, she still posed a threat to the draw and couldve caused an unbalance. So it was only fair just to move her up a bit to make things smoother considering she had a low ranking. But now, she is the 16th seed which is pretty decent and Henin is 17th, so they have pretty decent seedings...nothing too low that needs to be changed.

If the committee was smart, they'd bump Schiavon down but of course they'd never do that.

1jackson2001
Jun 17th, 2010, 01:57 AM
Ohhh. I get it now. ;)
I knew you would get it. ;)

The OP, however, will never get it.

skanky~skanketta
Jun 17th, 2010, 02:10 AM
I still wish they'd just seed the players (ATP and WTA) according to the rankings.

mykarma
Jun 17th, 2010, 02:41 AM
- Champion Roger Federer will be number one seed for next week's Wimbledon championships despite being overtaken in the world rankings by Rafael Nadal. Fair I guess
- Andy Roddick, three times runner-up to Federer, including last year, is seeded fifth in the men's draw, against his world ranking of seven. A little bit far-fetched, this guy has never won Wimbledon
- Lleyton Hewitt, the 2002 champion is seeded 11 places higher than his 26 ATP ranking. That takes the cake.

In that case Sharapova should be seeded higher, Safina and especially Henin (twice a finalist) should be among the the top 16 seeds. Just imagine if Venus was 3 in the WTA rankings, behind Jankovic and Caro. I'm sure she wouldn't have been bumped. Disgusting.
How is it fair, Nadal won in 2008 and didn't play 2009 because of injuries.

gc-spurs
Jun 17th, 2010, 02:52 AM
Wow OP really doesn't get it... did its mother microwave its breastmilk??

Roookie
Jun 17th, 2010, 02:55 AM
like the seeding matters anymore in a tour where MJMS, Rezai and Schiavone can win big titles

miffedmax
Jun 17th, 2010, 03:30 AM
I still wish they'd just seed the players (ATP and WTA) according to the rankings.

Yes, but that would be disgusting chauvinism because the ATP and the WTA use different ranking systems.

I'm not sure how or why it would be chauvinism, but obviously it would.

messing
Jun 17th, 2010, 03:44 AM
Hewitt getting bumped up so high is weird. Hasnt won it since 2002. :help: But still, I think he needs a good draw to go deep. He's always facing Nadal or Federer in these early rounds. Maybe this will do him good.
He just won Halle tournament last week over Federer in the final (If you know when is the last time Fed lost a match there, you will notice how big win it is. Let alone the losing streak of him to Fed :p) and made QF at Wimbledon last year as well. In fact, he's one of few players who can play on grass these days. So well deserved bump I think. :)

TheBoiledEgg
Jun 17th, 2010, 03:59 AM
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/8606/epicfailm.jpg (http://img686.imageshack.us/i/epicfailm.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

daily Fail strikes again

The Kaz
Jun 17th, 2010, 04:17 AM
Alwaysfails999 Get a life seriously :help:

n1_and_uh_noone
Jun 17th, 2010, 04:29 AM
- Champion Roger Federer will be number one seed for next week's Wimbledon championships despite being overtaken in the world rankings by Rafael Nadal. Fair I guess
- Andy Roddick, three times runner-up to Federer, including last year, is seeded fifth in the men's draw, against his world ranking of seven. A little bit far-fetched, this guy has never won Wimbledon
- Lleyton Hewitt, the 2002 champion is seeded 11 places higher than his 26 ATP ranking. That takes the cake.

In that case Sharapova should be seeded higher, Safina and especially Henin (twice a finalist) should be among the the top 16 seeds. Just imagine if Venus was 3 in the WTA rankings, behind Jankovic and Caro. I'm sure she wouldn't have been bumped. Disgusting.

He was clearly a dangerous quantity last year, schooling del Potro in the second round and going 5 against Roddick in the quarters. And when so few men have won at Wimbledon (or even made the final) over the last few years, makes sense to seed the few who have, a little higher.

Not sure what good Federer being bumped up does, really.

twight6
Jun 17th, 2010, 04:52 AM
:wavey:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=412257

starin
Jun 17th, 2010, 06:17 AM
FAIL thread.



No chauvinism, nobody was "bumped". They just used a fair, objective formula - something I think should also be done at RG, and for the women at the English Open.

It's on the women's side that the organizers sometimes bump a particular player up.

i think that was op's point. Sexist because different standards for men and women. Why not use the same formula for the women? Don't even get started with their ridiculous court placements for the women and last year's antiquated move of putting two pretty girls with awful games on center court. as if two mildly attractive girls compensates for shite tennis.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 17th, 2010, 07:57 AM
Why TheOneWhoAlwaysFails666 is not banned is the TF's biggest mystery, imo.

markdelaney
Jun 17th, 2010, 09:29 AM
They should just leave both sets of rankings alone. Players earn world rankings and deserve to be seeded accordingly. The only time it is unfortunate is when certain top players haven't played a full year and we could end up with a 4R or QF being the best match of the tournament but it's the luck of the draw.