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Doc
May 31st, 2010, 07:57 AM
Yes, bad scheduling and seeding played its part. But Maria had all the chances to win this match. She had one of the best serves at RG but managed to lose serve three times in the set to cave to Justine. This is the 4th slam in succession she's crashed out early while lesser players have gone forward to the latter stages.:mad:

Why is Maria always losing these important tight clutch matches? Bad luck - or is it something mental in her game or preparation?

She does seem to need a proper coach - or some new approach to sort this mess out.

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 07:57 AM
:lol:

Marilyn Monheaux
May 31st, 2010, 08:23 AM
Doc, go sit in the corner somewhere.:lol:

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 08:30 AM
Burying heads in the sand doesn't help. She's not winning the key matches despite apparently having all the weapons. She's underperforming badly and needs to work out why.

Proper coaching support might help.

gc-spurs
May 31st, 2010, 08:39 AM
Doc, go sit in the corner somewhere.:lol:

No one puts Doc in a corner.

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 09:16 AM
Sorry, the coaching position is currently unavailable.

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 09:34 AM
Then it needs to get available pretty quick.She doesn't actually have a proper coach.

Living in dreamland isn't enough. Lots of people have said, Maria needs new ideas and new input to get her out of this rut of constant losses. Other players have had to do it, including Federer and Dementieva. Maria neds to get some good professional advice to get her career back on track. She's losing too many clutch matches - and needs to work out why.

perseus2006
May 31st, 2010, 09:51 AM
I can't remember who said it, Einstein maybe, but it's so applicable here:

"Ignorance can be taught, stupidity lasts forever."

Someone should start a poll to determine popular opinion on whether Doc is stupid or just ignorant.

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 10:10 AM
:timebomb:

http://thedoublebagel.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/2h5qv4o.gif

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 10:13 AM
The stupid people ae those idiot brainfarts like Peseus who can't face facts.

So far Maria has crashed out of all four slams in Rounds 2,2,2 and 3 respectively.

Got that?

See a pattern?

Are those wonderful results for a former champion?

No. They're sodding AWFUL results, and it needs to be acknowledged and dealt with.

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 10:15 AM
The stupid people ae those idiot brainfarts like Peseus who can't face facts.

Who? :confused:

gc-spurs
May 31st, 2010, 10:23 AM
The stupid people ae those idiot brainfarts like Peseus who can't face facts.

So far Maria has crashed out of all four slams in Rounds 2,2,2 and 3 respectively.

Got that?

See a pattern?

Are those wonderful results for a former champion?

No. They're sodding AWFUL results, and it needs to be acknowledged and dealt with.

:confused: Wrong, but I don't want to correct it :o.
How about we leave this until the US Open results. How can you jurge last years slams? she had like no match play and had that vomit serve.

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 10:25 AM
Had no idea Masha won a match in Australia. That's fucking great news.

Marilyn Monheaux
May 31st, 2010, 10:26 AM
Had no idea Masha won a match in Australia. That's fucking great news.

IKR. :aparty:

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 10:27 AM
Why waste another year?

Maria needs some expert help and advice now.

Ksenia.
May 31st, 2010, 10:35 AM
Doc, I'm a a fan of yours :inlove: I think I'll even drop Maria for you.

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 10:37 AM
Why should you drop Maria?

I just want her to sort herself out.

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 10:40 AM
Tired of the bullshit, Ksenia?

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 10:44 AM
Tired of the bullshit, Ksenia?

Well. You certainly produce it in industrial quantities.

Ksenia.
May 31st, 2010, 10:45 AM
Tired of the bullshit, Ksenia?

It's quite entertaining I must admit... so far :lol:

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 10:47 AM
Well. You certainly produce it in industrial quantities.
It's a gift.

It's quite entertaining I must admit... so far :lol:
Good change from the somber mood about 10 hours ago. :)

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 10:50 AM
The sombre mood is likely to continue until Maria atually starts winning some important matches.

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 10:51 AM
I know. :(

Vaidisova Ruled
May 31st, 2010, 11:23 AM
Doc, you're such a drama queen. How can't you see that Maria is playing a lot better now?
If Maria was in the bottom half of the draw, she would have gone really far.
Wait for Wimbledon. I'm 80% sure that she will be in the second week. Wait 3 weeks.
If she loses realy at this Wimbledon, and at this US Open, then we will be very worried. But it won't happen.:wavey:

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 11:58 AM
Doc, you're such a drama queen. How can't you see that Maria is playing a lot better now?
If Maria was in the bottom half of the draw, she would have gone really far.
Wait for Wimbledon. I'm 80% sure that she will be in the second week. Wait 3 weeks.
If she loses realy at this Wimbledon, and at this US Open, then we will be very worried. But it won't happen.:wavey:

Hope you're right.

But Maria was in a winning position in this match. In tennis playing great and then losing gets you nothing. I know it was a bad draw - but she used to triumph over bad draws. And she lost to Kirilenko in Sydney, and Dulko (who she used to thrash), in Wimbledon. I can't even remember who she lost to at FM. She needs something adding to her game or mental process. Maybe extra coaching advice Maybe she ought to get Yuri back at courtside.

Ksenia.
May 31st, 2010, 12:01 PM
You don't even know where Aussie Open takes place? :tape:

Nina.
May 31st, 2010, 12:01 PM
What tournament is FM? :scratch:

Ksenia.
May 31st, 2010, 12:04 PM
Flushing Meadows aka USO I guess :lol:

Marilyn Monheaux
May 31st, 2010, 12:05 PM
FM = Flushing Meadows?:scratch:

Nina.
May 31st, 2010, 12:10 PM
Ah possible :lol:
That's a very promising thread so far *gets popcorn*

gc-spurs
May 31st, 2010, 12:16 PM
You don't even know where Aussie Open takes place? :tape:

:lol:
So according to Doc, the AO is held in Sydney, and Maria made it to round 2.

Shafanovic.
May 31st, 2010, 12:19 PM
:tears:

i didn't get to see that first round match :sobbing:

Shafanovic.
May 31st, 2010, 12:19 PM
and i can't believe i didn't go. i live in sydney :speakles:

Nina.
May 31st, 2010, 12:34 PM
and i can't believe i didn't go. i live in sydney :speakles:

you're such a bad fan :sobbing:

Shafanovic.
May 31st, 2010, 12:38 PM
^ i know. jovana should ban me from siberian siren :hysteric:

Marilyn Monheaux
May 31st, 2010, 12:49 PM
Ah possible :lol:
That's a very promising thread so far *gets popcorn*

IKR.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1716/20tp4yb.gif

pokey camp
May 31st, 2010, 03:11 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/33auhc1.jpg


W R2/ USO R3/ AO R1/ RG R3

One of these things is not like the other. ;)

Marilyn Monheaux
May 31st, 2010, 03:15 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/33auhc1.jpg


W R2/ USO R3/ AO R1/ RG R3

One of things is not like the other. ;)

Especially RG R3 JH.:lol:

Mrs. Dimitrova
May 31st, 2010, 03:30 PM
and i can't believe i didn't go. i live in sydney :speakles:

:speakles:

Are schools in Sydney good? I never got the education system in Australia, it's like NZ right? I'm still used to the American system, GPA and all that. I'm considering... or Melbourne... but I just wanted to go to the UK more than anything in the world. :sobbing:

(let's turn this into an epic chat thread :secret: :banana: )

Lefty.
May 31st, 2010, 04:45 PM
Doc, I think you missed the memo that Maria played Justine Henin in the 3rd round. :lol:

pokey camp
May 31st, 2010, 05:04 PM
Especially RG R3 JH.:lol:
No, no. The answer is: AO R1.

The only loss to a player taller than 5’7”/ 1.70m. :p

Thought it was kinda obvious where I was going there... ;)

slamchamp
May 31st, 2010, 05:12 PM
I know she's playing better but still I feel she should have won..I'm sick of early loses, stosur just beat henin:weirdo:

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 05:41 PM
A lot of childishness here, ignoring the key points and trying to be clever about Australia. Yes. Maria's stats were worse than I stated. Happy?

The point is that Maria has significant problems - losing a lot of important matches she should be winning. Underlined today with Stosur showing how to finish off a match against Henin.

Maria needs to get her act together with some better advice and coaching..

DOUBLEFIST
May 31st, 2010, 05:43 PM
A real quick word of thanks.

I know it sucks for you Maria Die-hards after she put in such a good effort against Juju (Maria should've won. so many chances), but she is to be thanked - at least in part - for Sam's victory today.

I think Maria exposed Henin over the last two days. I think she damaged her aura of invincibility. Sam, who I think normally doesn't have the confidence to stand up to someone like Juju on a stage like this, gained confidence from Maria's results.

So, thank you Maria. :yeah: Well done and better luck next year.

jhonathan17
May 31st, 2010, 05:46 PM
doc, I think maria is only focusing on fashion and lost interest in tennis

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 05:51 PM
doc, I think maria is only focusing on fashion and lost interest in tennis

I think Maria needs to cut down on the fashion and other activities which are diverting her from concentration on her game. She has clearly been doing a lot of training and work on the serve, but she needs more analysis of why she loses serve so often, and falters at key moments.

Doc
May 31st, 2010, 05:55 PM
A real quick word of thanks.

I know it sucks for you Maria Die-hards after she put in such a good effort against Juju (Maria should've won. so many chances), but she is to be thanked - at least in part - for Sam's victory today.

I think Maria exposed Henin over the last two days. I think she damaged her aura of invincibility. Sam, who I think normally doesn't have the confidence to stand up to someone like Juju on a stage like this, gained confidence from Maria's results.

So, thank you Maria. :yeah: Well done and better luck next year.

Yes. Maria did a lot of work - but she needs to make it pay off for her.

slamchamp
May 31st, 2010, 06:00 PM
doc, I think maria is only focusing on fashion and lost interest in tennisThat is something really stupid to say..Only because she lost a match?? She's being playing and practising a lot: had a week of practise in spain, won a title in strasbourg..looks really motivated on court, she's serving, volleying and moving better.
She only needs to close some big matches like this one against juju

~MashyOwnThemAll
May 31st, 2010, 06:07 PM
That is something really stupid to say..Only because she lost a match?? She's being playing and practising a lot: had a week of practise in spain, won a title in strasbourg..looks really motivated on court, she's serving, volleying and moving better.
She only needs to close some big matches like this one against juju

:worship::worship::worship:
:yeah:

:timebomb:

Lefty.
May 31st, 2010, 06:17 PM
A lot of childishness here, ignoring the key points and trying to be clever about Australia. Yes. Maria's stats were worse than I stated. Happy?

The point is that Maria has significant problems - losing a lot of important matches she should be winning. Underlined today with Stosur showing how to finish off a match against Henin.

Maria needs to get her act together with some better advice and coaching..

Maria has not played much this year. Winning those key points and finishing matches is something that comes as she plays more regularly and gets more match play, so it should be no surprise that she had trouble finishing off Justine considering before she played last week in Strausbourg, the last time she played was at the beginning of March.

pokey camp
May 31st, 2010, 06:32 PM
A lot of childishness here, ignoring the key points and trying to be clever about Australia. Yes. Maria's stats were worse than I stated. Happy?

The point is that Maria has significant problems - losing a lot of important matches she should be winning. Underlined today with Stosur showing how to finish off a match against Henin.

Maria needs to get her act together with some better advice and coaching..

Eh. Justine wasn’t getting through that minefield of a draw regardless. Especially once Maria extended her. :shrug: And Doublefist may be right about Maria's match giving Sam some confidence and self belief. That's always been a huge problem area for her. If Maria had gone away quietly in the 2nd set the result today might've been different for a lot of reasons. (More confidence for Justine, less for Sam, less energy expended by Justine, more rest because the match wouldn't have been held over.)

But I can live with the loss against Justine because of how Maria played at times. I saw a level of play from her that I hadn’t seen previously. For the first time in a long time I saw progress out there. She was able to fight her way into the match and didn’t wilt, the serve wasn’t horrific, she's kept the DF's below 10 in all of her matches since IW and it didn't look like she was worried about her serve at any point during the match, the movement didn’t look lethargic, the ground strokes were solid at times, I think I even saw her slide into a volley…

Is it fool's gold because Justine wasn’t playing her best from start to finish? Perhaps, but players rarely play their absolute best in big matches these days. Yes her BP conversion rate was dreadful, some of that due to Justine raising her level (in the 3rd) and some of it was just dumb errors. :shrug:

On the other hand... her BP conversion rate has been pretty horrible at times for a while now, so I don’t know if it’s something to be concerned about or not. Hopefully if she continues to serve this way, her confidence in the rest of her game will go up. She won't have to spend mental energy worrying about the serve and constantly digging out of holes in her service games. And can play more freely on the return and capitalize on more of those BPs.

(She wasn't able to do that in any of the early slam losses. Did she hit fewer than 10 DFs in any of them since W 2008 and including USO 2007? I think she only hit fewer than 10 against Dulko?)

Either way I’ll wait to see how she performs at Wimbledon/ USO and against other top players before I start to panic. :cool:

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 07:28 PM
This is ridiculous. Clearly there's progress. Whoever doesn't see that, hasn't been around here or been a Maria fan so just go away.

Mrs. Dimitrova
May 31st, 2010, 07:33 PM
so just go away.

This. :lol:

Why don't you just go to GM if you wanna discuss this? Some people avoid GM because of that. Don't come in here. :shrug:

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 07:36 PM
Yeah. I'm rarely ever at the classy place called GM. It hurts my brain.

xan
May 31st, 2010, 07:38 PM
Telling people not to raise difficult subjects is not good. Maria's results have been poor, despite improvements in her game, and someone in her team needs to find out why.
For example:
The difference between Maria and Sam
Maria had a 20% Break Point conversion rate
Stosur had a 67% Break Point conversion rate

So although Maria had more than double the number of BP as Sam, she converted fewer. I've noted that Maria seems to have trouble converting BP in a lot of matches.

Mrs. Dimitrova
May 31st, 2010, 07:38 PM
Yeah. I'm rarely ever at the classy place called GM. It hurts my brain.

You already told me once when I asked you why you never posted in GM. "I think I've done a pretty good job of keeping unnecessary stress out of my life". :p

MaitaBaby
May 31st, 2010, 07:44 PM
Yes! :lol:

joão.
May 31st, 2010, 08:33 PM
I partially agree with the disappointment of at the end this was another early loss at a Slam. :sad: I think Wimbledon will be a really good test to see where Maria is atm though.

~MashyOwnThemAll
May 31st, 2010, 08:59 PM
Maria will be better and better! Completely promising!! I'm so happy from that! I've seen she is step up to another class! And her old good serve help for her in this! (The key moment) Confident, etc...

MAKE BELIEVE IN MARIA SHARAPOVA!

madmax
May 31st, 2010, 09:18 PM
She will be good and fine on faster surfaces - the conditions when she lost to Justin that morning were MEGASLOW, the ball was literally sitting up on dirt and allowing belgian pusher to slice it back to Masha...Henin simply raised her level in the 3rd set and it's no secret that she loves clay and Masha not so much. We should be concerned only if Maria loses to some random nobody in Wimby, other than that I see a progress in her game and the results will come on her preferred surfaces

~MashyOwnThemAll
May 31st, 2010, 09:31 PM
She will be good and fine on faster surfaces - the conditions when she lost to Justin that morning were MEGASLOW, the ball was literally sitting up on dirt and allowing belgian pusher to slice it back to Masha...Henin simply raised her level in the 3rd set and it's no secret that she loves clay and Masha not so much. We should be concerned only if Maria loses to some random nobody in Wimby, other than that I see a progress in her game and the results will come on her preferred surfaces
THIS! :worship:

Yep,
sloth ultraslow dank clay...:unsure: I hate so much! :banghead:

Grass-time, Mashatime :drool: :cool:

Maria Croft
May 31st, 2010, 10:29 PM
I'm not going to read this thread because well...let's not even go there.

But to everyone who doubts Maria after she's actually improved so much in just a few weeks and has challenged a top player on her best and Maria's worst surface and after all those horrible slam matches I can only say:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d130/mariacroft/2w7l5wm.gif

Goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out. We don't need that negativity.

DOUBLEFIST
May 31st, 2010, 10:48 PM
Yes. Maria did a lot of work - but she needs to make it pay off for her.
It will. I'm pretty much convinced that she's on the right track. For her to perform as she did on dirt against Juju is a pretty good sign. I think by the U.S. Hard Court season she'll make some real noise. She definitely won't get Oudin-ed.

gc-spurs
May 31st, 2010, 11:31 PM
I'm not going to read this thread because well...let's not even go there.

But to everyone who doubts Maria after she's actually improved so much in just a few weeks and has challenged a top player on her best and Maria's worst surface and after all those horrible slam matches I can only say:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d130/mariacroft/2w7l5wm.gif

Goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out. We don't need that negativity.

You should read some of it. Its funny for a few pages.

xan
May 31st, 2010, 11:50 PM
Going out in Round 3 is never good, however you spin it. Challenging top players isn't enough. You need to beat them. And it's not being "negative" to say there's a problem that needs a solution. Maria is not winning the key matches she needs to win to progress in slams and top tournaments.

Now everybody loses once or twice, but Maria has been losing far too many matches she should have won. There were signs of this even before the injury - in the Semipova period which started at the Australian Open 2005 with her loss to Serena from Match points up. I'm beginning to think she starts to freeze in certain clutch situations and not execute her skills efficiently. So whenever she is in a tight match, as with Kirilenko in Australia, Dulko in Wimbledon, or Henin at RG, she rarely comes out of it the winner.
I think a good coach or sport psychologist is needed to get her over this hump.

DOUBLEFIST
Jun 1st, 2010, 12:05 AM
Going out in Round 3 is never good, however you spin it. Challenging top players isn't enough. You need to beat them. And it's not being "negative" to say there's a problem that needs a solution. Maria is not winning the key matches she needs to win to progress in slams and top tournaments...
But don't you think arriving at a judgement of her play after RG, after she was the first player to take a set off Juju in YEARS is a bit premature. The strength of her season is just coming up. If she loses matches she should win on grass, THEN I think there's troulbe on the horizon.

MaitaBaby
Jun 1st, 2010, 12:44 AM
All I know is that these past 2 weeks, Maria's been on a steady climb and that's what matters. What could have, should have, would have been is shit. She can't dwell on missed opportunities and neither should you.

Even in her loss to Lucie Safarova in Madrid, she was serving well. 3 tourneys with a good serve- 1 bad loss, 1 good loss and a title. I'll take it.

P_Fer
Jun 1st, 2010, 01:09 AM
Despite the early loss, her performance these past few weeks has definitely been a step in the right direction. This is the first time I have felt any positive feelings towards Masha's play all year :shrug:
Yes, she wasnt able to beat a top player, but she came pretty darn close, and I think her confidence and desire will only be fueled by it :D
Also, she said she's still enjoying playing, which Im thrilled to hear!

Dan23
Jun 1st, 2010, 01:11 AM
Telling people not to raise difficult subjects is not good. Maria's results have been poor, despite improvements in her game, and someone in her team needs to find out why.
For example:
The difference between Maria and Sam
Maria had a 20% Break Point conversion rate
Stosur had a 67% Break Point conversion rate

So although Maria had more than double the number of BP as Sam, she converted fewer. I've noted that Maria seems to have trouble converting BP in a lot of matches.
Yes, conversion of break points has long been a bit of an issue for Maria. Against lesser players she can generate so many that theres no problem converting enough to win comfortably but when she plays very good players she needs to convert far more frequently.

I think Stosur fixing up Henin takes a bit of the gloss off Maria's performance though you could look at it the way Doublefist says where Maria wore down Henins 'aura'. In recent years Maria has lost the 'aura' she had devoloped on grass early in her career and really grass has become second fiddle to her strong performances on hard court. Admittedly she has had dour luck around this time of the year with injury on a number of occasions which always harms her preparation for Wimbledon. This year will hopefully be different where she has built up a few good weeks of form. I assume she will play a grass court event next week then have a week off before the slam?

In a way I do agree with part of what Doc is saying. Maria could only benefit from additional input from another recognised coach but it seems like Maria is more than content with her current situation. Yuri mustnt know what to do with himself these days not being with Maria on tour :lol:

Dan23
Jun 1st, 2010, 01:21 AM
The over defensiveness in this thread is also a bit over the top. I dont think Doc was attacking Maria but more expressing his opinion on where things are going wrong. If you dont agree then its open to discussion :cool:

I think we'd all agree that we hold Maria in the same sort of elite company as the Williams sisters, Henin and Clijsters and they have shown how they can come back from long periods away from the top and still return to their highest levels, so we can reasonably expect the same from Maria.

perseus2006
Jun 1st, 2010, 02:53 AM
It seems xan=doc.

Jacey
Jun 1st, 2010, 03:39 AM
All I know is that these past 2 weeks, Maria's been on a steady climb and that's what matters. What could have, should have, would have been is shit. She can't dwell on missed opportunities and neither should you.

Even in her loss to Lucie Safarova in Madrid, she was serving well. 3 tourneys with a good serve- 1 bad loss, 1 good loss and a title. I'll take it.

Agree ;)

Sad that some fans can't be as positive as Maria is.....she did just come back from having a bone bruise which I believe some comm. on tv said that bone bruises are very painful.

Nina.
Jun 1st, 2010, 09:08 AM
I don't understand why there is so much drama going on. Sure, Maria wasted a lot of chances, she could have (maybe even should have) won that match against Henin. I don't think anybody in here pretends that every problem she has is fixed by now.
But I think we also have to acknoledge that there has been clearly progress in her game, her serve. It's the best I have seen her play this year and I think it's also a lot better than she played last season.
So far I am positive that she's on the right track to put the pieces back together. So I am just gonna wait how she will be doing on grass & US hardcourts.

Doc
Jun 1st, 2010, 06:27 PM
As Elena just said, "It's not about playing your best tennis, its about winning matches."

Correct attiude.

Elena has taken advice and dealt with some of her major problems with outside help. Maria needs to do the same. Some people here seem to be in denial that Maria has some non-physical problems in closing out big matches. I would agree with making excuses after a couple of losses. Bad draws, poor condition etc can happen to anyone. But Maria has not won anything of significance for a year. For someone with her talent, that shows she needs coaching help

Mrs. Dimitrova
Jun 1st, 2010, 06:49 PM
As Elena just said, "It's not about playing your best tennis, its about winning matches."

Correct attiude.

Elena has taken advice and dealt with some of her major problems with outside help. Maria needs to do the same. Some people here seem to be in denial that Maria has some non-physical problems in closing out big matches. I would agree with making excuses after a couple of losses. Bad draws, poor condition etc can happen to anyone. But Maria has not won anything of significance for a year. For someone with her talent, that shows she needs coaching help

OK we get what you mean. You don't have to repost the same thing over and over again every 5 minutes. If you think you're so smart and knows what Maria should be doing then go tell that to her then. Stop posting it again and again here because nothing's going to change. And it's annoying.

MaitaBaby
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:08 PM
Fierce Teerin :lol:

MaitaBaby
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:10 PM
And by the way, "It's not about playing your best tennis. It's about your opponent playing worse and barely able to walk." :o

Doc
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:11 PM
OK we get what you mean. You don't have to repost the same thing over and over again every 5 minutes. If you think you're so smart and knows what Maria should be doing then go tell that to her then. Stop posting it again and again here because nothing's going to change. And it's annoying.

Things need to change - and I'm responding to people who are in denial, and prefer to personally attack the messenger than listen to the message.

If you don't like the thread, and can't respond or argue constructively then stay away. However this is a perfeecly legitimate concern which would be raised on any player forum following a sequence of bad results. I would be ecstatic to see Maria holding the Wimbledon plate in a few weeks time. If that happens I will be glad to say I was wrong and that Maria's team don't need improving..

Mrs. Dimitrova
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:14 PM
Things need to change - and I'm responding to people who are in denial, and prefer to personally attack the messenger than listen to the message.

That's not necessary. Some people here obviously doesn't want you to respond to them so you don't have to, it's non of your business to be telling other people what they should think (and especially when they don't want to hear what you have to say as well). Go away.

MaitaBaby
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:16 PM
:lol:

Okay, Doc, I think you have Maria's best intentions but seriously your timing on brining this "issue" up couldn't be any worse. Had she lost to a player other than Justine or Serena and played like shit, I'd be right there with you. But none of those things happened.

pokey camp
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:26 PM
Yes, this topic probably would've been better received post AO. But it's sparked some debate, and it's actually about tennis. So... :cool:

OK we get what you mean. You don't have to repost the same thing over and over again every 5 minutes. If you think you're so smart and knows what Maria should be doing then go tell that to her then. Stop posting it again and again here because nothing's going to change. And it's annoying.
Not any more annoying than endless posts about uno games, math tests and fb. :o :help:

At least this is on topic, whether you agree with his point of view or not. If you don't like what he's posting you're not obligated to read it. You can scroll. Trust me, it works. I do it all the time. :shrug:

Mrs. Dimitrova
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:29 PM
Not any more annoying than endless posts about uno games, math tests and fb. :o :help:

:rolleyes:

At least I'm not shoving that down somebody's throat. :o

Nina.
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:31 PM
Can we all agree to become a bit more peaceful again? Because this used to be one of the things that were pretty great about Siberian Siren ;)

madmax
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:34 PM
As Elena just said, "It's not about playing your best tennis, its about winning matches."

Correct attiude.

Elena has taken advice and dealt with some of her major problems with outside help. Maria needs to do the same. Some people here seem to be in denial that Maria has some non-physical problems in closing out big matches. I would agree with making excuses after a couple of losses. Bad draws, poor condition etc can happen to anyone. But Maria has not won anything of significance for a year. For someone with her talent, that shows she needs coaching help

she won Premier tourney last fall and was in the final of another while playing and serving MUCH worse than she does now...Draws DO matter in WTA, especially for a player like Maria, who needs match play and confidence buildup to challenge top guns. I'm pretty sure if Masha would have avoided Justin so early and played her let's say in quarters, she would have beaten her in that stage of the tournament. Anyway - this clay nonsense is over, fast courts are coming up and that's where our girl trully shines:worship: Just remember that grass is made for cows:devil:

Doc
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:38 PM
That's not necessary. Some people here obviously doesn't want you to respond to them so you don't have to, it's non of your business to be telling other people what they should think (and especially when they don't want to hear what you have to say as well). Go away.

I'm not going away just because you're too immature to discuss important matters sensibly. Grow up

Mrs. Dimitrova
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:44 PM
I'm not going away just because you're too immature to discuss important matters sensibly. Grow up

I'm not going to discuss this because I never wanted to in the first place. :dance:

Marilyn Monheaux
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:44 PM
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5260/208hd3kjpg.gif
























j/k :p

Now seriously, I think some people are over reacting because of her loss. It was unfortunate and the definitely could have won the match, but unless she loses early in B'ham or Wimby, my alarm clock is not going off.

If she crashes out in the first week of Wimby, tho, I will personally bump the "New coach" thread and start a heated discussion!:angel:

Doc
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:46 PM
she won Premier tourney last fall and was in the final of another while playing and serving MUCH worse than she does now...Draws DO matter in WTA, especially for a player like Maria, who needs match play and confidence buildup to challenge top guns. I'm pretty sure if Masha would have avoided Justin so early and played her let's say in quarters, she would have beaten her in that stage of the tournament. Anyway - this clay nonsense is over, fast courts are coming up and that's where our girl trully shines:worship: Just remember that grass is made for cows:devil:

I agree that draw matter a lot. Elena could get to the final while not playing a single top seed. The point is that Maria has been losing too many tight matches generally, and it needs to be worked out why.

It seems like every time Maria is in a clutch match with a good player the report I read is "Maria fought back strongly at point x in the match, but finally lost." Now she should be winning at least half these clutch matches. If she isn't then something is wrong. And we can guarantee that at least once in a slam she'll face tight matches like this. Ergo she needs to work out WHY she keeps losing.

It could be confidence. It ould be that she lacks the tactics to change things up at crucial points in these matches. Sometimes simply having the extra tactics gives you the confidence.

pokey camp
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:50 PM
:rolleyes:

At least I'm not shoving that down somebody's throat. :o
Eh. That's a matter of perspective. All of his posts on this subject are pretty much contained in this thread and the RG thread. Whereas your ot ramblings litter the entire forum so they're much more difficult to avoid. :sobbing:

But my point is: Doc's not shoving his pov down your throat. :shrug: If his posts are upsetting you, you don't have to keep clicking on this thread. Or you can scroll on. That's what I do. It usually works. And if you don't want to have a discussion, then why derail Doc's efforts to have one? Telling people to "go away" is :o.

We're all Maria fans here. We all have a right to post our diff povs, even if we don't agree. :cool:

MaitaBaby
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:51 PM
I'm peaceful. ;) And I don't just suddenly reappear to bring others down and cause drama. :o

Sorry, okay, back to being zen.

Mrs. Dimitrova
Jun 1st, 2010, 07:53 PM
Eh. That's a matter of perspective. All of his posts on this subject are pretty much contained in this thread and the RG thread. Whereas your ot ramblings litter the entire forum so they're much more difficult to avoid. :sobbing:

But my point is: Doc's not shoving his pov down your throat. :shrug: If his posts are upsetting you, you don't have to keep clicking on this thread. Or you can scroll on. That's what I do. It usually works. And if you don't want to have a discussion, then why derail Doc's efforts to have one? Telling people to "go away" is :o.

We're all Maria fans here. We all have a right to post our diff povs, even if we don't agree. :cool:

He says he's responding to people in denial. And obviously some people that he labels as "in denial" doesn't want him to respond, but he does, so how is that not shoving it down other people's throats?

MaitaBaby
Jun 1st, 2010, 08:01 PM
PEACE you guys. Peace!

I'm outta here until you stop bickering. Maria doesn't give 2 shits anymore about what happened 2 days ago. She's out harnessing her "chi" in England.

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/6932/zenv.gif

Doc
Jun 1st, 2010, 08:07 PM
He says he's responding to people in denial. And obviously some people that he labels as "in denial" doesn't want him to respond, but he does, so how is that not shoving it down other people's throats?

If you don't want to discuss Maria's problems, don't participate But don't try to stop other fans of Maria discussing what she needs to do to starrt winning again.

Anyone who posts and doesn't want a response should think about why this is called a DISCSSION board.

As I said. Maria is tending to put up fights in clutch matches - but generally ends up losing these key matches. I think this is an important topic to get to the bottom of.

Nina.
Jun 1st, 2010, 08:07 PM
I agree that draw matter a lot. Elena could get to the final while not playing a single top seed. The point is that Maria has been losing too many tight matches generally, and it needs to be worked out why.

It seems like every time Maria is in a clutch match with a good player the report I read is "Maria fought back strongly at point x in the match, but finally lost." Now she should be winning at least half these clutch matches. If she isn't then something is wrong. And we can guarantee that at least once in a slam she'll face tight matches like this. Ergo she needs to work out WHY she keeps losing.

It could be confidence. It ould be that she lacks the tactics to change things up at crucial points in these matches. Sometimes simply having the extra tactics gives you the confidence.

I agree partly with that. Sure, she lost a couple of good matches. I still think that you have to see that there was clearly improvement in her game at RG compared to the way she played and served this year so far. And with realizing that she can rely on her game much better should give her the confidence to win those tight matches again.

Doc
Jun 1st, 2010, 08:17 PM
I agree partly with that. Sure, she lost a couple of good matches. I still think that you have to see that there was clearly improvement in her game at RG compared to the way she played and served this year so far. And with realizing that she can rely on her game much better should give her the confidence to win those tight matches again.

I agree her game and stats have improved significantly this year so far - but this hasn't been reflected in her results. You may be right that the improvement in her game will give her the confidence she needs to start winning the difficult and more testing matches. However the henin match showed the old problems resurfacing. Maria got into a winning position, then failed to convert 3BP, and then lost multiple serves in order to lose the match. Stosur then proved that Justine was not unbeatable.

Now Stosur was known for her nerves in matches and seems to have been overcoming that. I think she wears those sunglasses so no one can see the nervousness in her eyes. If she can get over this hurdle, surely Maria can. But it needs to be faced.

xan
Jun 1st, 2010, 10:13 PM
Maria has not looked that happy in Paris this year. Stosur looked far more confident playing against Justine. She had the tactic of rushing the net and finishing off the point quickly.

Lefty.
Jun 2nd, 2010, 07:25 AM
Maria has not looked that happy in Paris this year. Stosur looked far more confident playing against Justine. She had the tactic of rushing the net and finishing off the point quickly.

Tbh, I don't think Maria has ever looked truly happy at RG. :lol:

Maria Croft
Jun 2nd, 2010, 07:33 AM
If this topic was created after her AO loss I would have agreed with a lot of this, but Maria has improved a lot in the last few weeks, and in every interview she sounded really confident and willing.

I think a lot of people thought that she would have a comeback like Serena (won Miami, made a slam final soon thereafter) Kim (Won IW and Miami double) but she didn't. That doesn't mean it's a bad comeback. Eventually she will break through in a slam again.

So whatever, all I know is that Maria is going to make you doubters look like fools sooner than later.

Doc
Jun 2nd, 2010, 10:56 AM
I'm not a doubter, Summon - just not wanting to be complacent. Even after the AO, I gave Maria and her team the benefit of the doubt. I told myself it was an unfortunate first round, against a Russian, fast-balling ex doubles-partner when Maria was new to the court.

I hope you're right, and Maria is on the point of break back into multiple slam-winning form. But it has been over a year since the come-back now, with no improvement in results. I thought Maria was guaranteed to pick up ranking points over the Jan-June period, but no dice. She's gone down. The YEC looks doubtful again this year. Remember that she never used to be out of the top 5? If Maria were a UK football team, the manager would be sacked and the Board of Directors would be looking shaky. I actually think it will be crunch time with some of her sponsors soon. At the very least they'll be reducing payments substantially. These people are hard-headed and want to see their brands in the semis and finals of major tournaments.

Maria clearly has the talent, physical ability and the fighting spirit to be back at the top. So there needs to be a big shake-up in Maria's team - especially if there isn't a good result at Wimbledon - SF or better.

gc-spurs
Jun 2nd, 2010, 11:09 AM
I'm not a doubter, Summon - just not wanting to be complacent. Even after the AO, I gave Maria and her team the benefit of the doubt. I told myself it was an unfortunate first round, against a Russian, fast-balling ex doubles-partner when Maria was new to the court.

I hope you're right, and Maria is on the point of break back into multiple slam-winning form. But it has been over a year since the come-back now, with no improvement in results. I thought Maria was guaranteed to pick up ranking points over the Jan-June period, but no dice. She's gone down. The YEC looks doubtful again this year. Remember that she never used to be out of the top 5? If Maria were a UK football team were an NBA team, the manager would be sacked and the Board of Directors would be looking shaky. I actually think it will be crunch time with some of her sponsors soon. At the very least they'll be reducing payments substantially. These people are hard-headed and want to see their brands in the semis and finals of major tournaments.



Maria clearly has the talent, physical ability and the fighting spirit to be back at the top. So there needs to be a big shake-up in Maria's team - especially if there isn't a good result at Wimbledon - SF or better.

Speak my language (NBA)!! :lol:

Yeah its a shame she didn't pick up much points this half year, some was form but a lot was injury. No show at Miami and Charleston obviously really hurt her in the rankings considering she was defending no points- opportunity lost, but your can hardly blame her and her team for that.

If she sucks on grass where we'll get a better measure hopefully, I'll agree with you, but it seems weird to suggest to change the team when her form is improving- more aces, less DFs, less UEs (and some crzy little dropshots!).

Sharapower
Jun 2nd, 2010, 02:56 PM
Someone wrote Xan=Doc, you can add =Sharapower.
The funny thing is that the three of us are, so to say, “old hands” of this SIberian Siren Forum. I’m not stating this to play a silly game of the old vs. the young. It’s more about letting you guys understand where we’re coming from. Year after year, disappointment after disappointment, we’ve grown bitter with Maria’s chronic underperforming, notwithstanding injury problems.
Maria has had a handful of great wins and a whole bunch of really bad losses. We thought 2007 was the defining year of Maria Sharapova as a champion, but the more we see, we can’t help thinking that perhaps the stupid defeats and mental lapses are what define her more than 3 GS titles.
I totally agree that during this RG, there were technical points that were positive in her game, but that doesn’t mean a lot. She’s won big with a very limited technique in 2007, but it’s visible that since then, she has lost that magical something that made her a GS winner.
The question now is how she will find that back. Tennis conventional wisdom seems to indicate that a “second wave” won’t happen without outside help.

pokey camp
Jun 2nd, 2010, 04:19 PM
I'm not a doubter, Summon - just not wanting to be complacent. Even after the AO, I gave Maria and her team the benefit of the doubt. I told myself it was an unfortunate first round, against a Russian, fast-balling ex doubles-partner when Maria was new to the court.

I hope you're right, and Maria is on the point of break back into multiple slam-winning form. But it has been over a year since the come-back now, with no improvement in results. I thought Maria was guaranteed to pick up ranking points over the Jan-June period, but no dice. She's gone down. The YEC looks doubtful again this year. Remember that she never used to be out of the top 5?
Jan - June was the AO debacle, MM, IW --> Bone Bruise--> Madrid, MM, RG.

The AO R1 loss, being injured during IW/MIA, missing Rome, crap draw at RG = not a lot of progress in the rankings.

Losing R1 at the AO was devastating rankings wise. She could've vaulted herself into good position with any decent performance there. (Now we're stuck with yet another year of saying at least she doesn't have any points to defend.) That's probably the most frustrated I've ever been with the coaching situation.

Especially when you consider that in previous years she was always well prepared for the AO. It's her best slam: W/F/2SF. Slam winning percentages going into this season:

AO: 83.33%
W: 80.6%
USO: 79.2%
RG:76.7%

Instead she looked sluggish and rusty, the ground strokes were a mess, the serve was a mess... Couple that with all the talk about her team circling the 2010 AO... :fiery: It made me question just WTH Mike had her doing this off season. That definitely edged me towards the "Mike needs FIRED!" bandwagon. (Now people just say Maria can't play well without a lot of match play. But looking at her AO winning %, the fact she rarely played a warmup tournament and her 2007 YEC? That wasn't always the case. :scratch:)

Not so sure if Mike needs fired anymore... Additional consultants probably, but they probably already do that and don't publicize it.
I think Stosur fixing up Henin takes a bit of the gloss off Maria's performance though you could look at it the way Doublefist says where Maria wore down Henins 'aura'.
I would feel that way more if it was a hardcourt slam. I use the Cow on Ice curve to grade her performances on clay.

Does Sam beating Serena today change anything? :shrug:

xan
Jun 2nd, 2010, 10:23 PM
Yep. I want Maria to fulfil her potential as one of the tennis greats. When she's on form almost no one can live with her. But she gets bogged down too often in tight matches which shouldn't even be close.
A. She shouldn't get into nearly so many tight matches. Slam winners close down most of their opponents before they gain the confidence to make trouble.
B, When she's in tight matches, she should have the skills and tactics to win them most of the time.

That's what needs looking at, and I agree that new expertise is needed to freshen up her approach.

Dan23
Jun 3rd, 2010, 12:59 AM
I would feel that way more if it was a hardcourt slam. I use the Cow on Ice curve to grade her performances on clay.

Does Sam beating Serena today change anything? :shrug:It does. Sam is in top form....better form than Henin/Serena right now so it would have been interesting to see how Maria would have gone against her.


I dont think anyone here is needlessly bagging Maria. Some of us have very high expectations of Maria as she has the tools in the shed to be one of the very best and it is sometimes disappointing that she hasn't fully capitalised on that quality and won more big titles. I'd say she is probably more than half way through her career now (16yo to now = 7 years....7 years from now = 30yo) and she has the added burden of the problematic arm. She needs to find the most efficient way of bringing out her best.

Doc
Jun 3rd, 2010, 09:51 AM
Year after year, disappointment after disappointment, we’ve grown bitter with Maria’s chronic underperforming, notwithstanding injury problems.
Maria has had a handful of great wins and a whole bunch of really bad losses. We thought 2007 was the defining year of Maria Sharapova as a champion, but the more we see, we can’t help thinking that perhaps the stupid defeats and mental lapses are what define her more than 3 GS titles.
I totally agree that during this RG, there were technical points that were positive in her game, but that doesn’t mean a lot. She’s won big with a very limited technique in 2007, but it’s visible that since then, she has lost that magical something that made her a GS winner.
The question now is how she will find that back. Tennis conventional wisdom seems to indicate that a “second wave” won’t happen without outside help.

I agree that certain of Maria's problems go back before the injury started.

There was the period from AO 2005 to her win at the USOpen 2006 when she seemed to lose to a different player in virtually every slam semifinal. At the time, that was put down to Maria being too one-dimensional, and not having the tools to change-up her game at crucial points.But I think there was a mental issue of self-belief too.

In the USO 2006 and AO 2008, she just ripped everyone apart - and so had no time for geting in to sticky situations. In 2007 she was getting the "fear factor" with many players not believing they had a chance - which can help ease the way through tornaments.2008 could have been her big year.

So I think this does boil down a lot to Maria not having the deeper confidence to believe that she is going to win these tight matches, and just as important, to not having the strategies and tactics ready for these clutch situations. She seems to panic in Set 3 3-3 type situations, and lose it. Both these problems could be addressed with an additional good coach. It's a pit in a way she doesn't work with Adidas. They may design awful dresses, but they do supply a good "team" coach for their players.

@ Dan23

I certainly think there's time for Maria to fulfil her potential. She's sill just 23. Three years younger than Sam. if she solves her problems and stays healthy, double figures in slams is still possible.

gc-spurs
Jun 3rd, 2010, 10:02 AM
Bring Mr Sharapov back to the box! http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2008/01/23/wbTENNISyuri_wideweb__470x250,0.jpg

istase2000
Jun 3rd, 2010, 03:54 PM
Doc, you have a point. These chokes and getting tight deep in 3rd set situations need to be fixed. New coach or not I hope her technique and confidence is restored by now and we finally see a good slam performance at wimbledon.

i miss yuri too :sobbing:

Stosur vs Schiavone final :rolls:
how i wish maria was in the final :sobbing:

Doc
Jun 4th, 2010, 06:31 PM
Let's hope she does a lot better at Wimbledon. It would be nice to see Yuri back in the stands. I suspect he was the cause of too much negative publicity though. It was getting so TV stations were having a permanent camera focussed on Yuri dring Maria's matches - to try to grab "incriminating" shots. Unfair - since other trainers get away with far more in the way of in-match coaching. But Yuri was someone they loved to hate.

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 5th, 2010, 06:29 AM
Let's hope she does a lot better at Wimbledon. It would be nice to see Yuri back in the stands. I suspect he was the cause of too much negative publicity though. It was getting so TV stations were having a permanent camera focussed on Yuri dring Maria's matches - to try to grab "incriminating" shots. Unfair - since other trainers get away with far more in the way of in-match coaching. But Yuri was someone they loved to hate.

Maybe he loves Attention..:lol::lol:He loves to be Hated:worship::worship:

babsi
Jun 6th, 2010, 02:17 PM
It is so nice to see some older Maria fans in here. For me the one that got away was AO 05, she had matchpoints on Rena, and if she had converted them I am near enough sure she would have won the final against a player who got upset over a simple backhand error. There have been other matches that have got away eg.RG 06 against Dinara after leading 5-1 in the 3rd set.
You can't grumble at 3 GS's but if you look back to after Wimbledon 04 and said she would have won only 2 more you wouldn't have believed it would have been so few, but remember she is only 23 and quite a few players have won more in the 2nd half of their career.

Mr.Sharapova
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:04 AM
Even though Maria lost early to Justine I felt like she is on her way back now for real cause she played an Amazing match and her serve was really the one to look for:)The loss from Kirilenko was a bummer but Kirilenko did have some great results during the year till now so It isn't so bad now thinking of it:)We will see what kind of draw maria gets at Wimbledon:angel:Hopefully a good one:):devil:

Doc
Jun 13th, 2010, 05:56 PM
Another poor performance - this time to a player she should beat easily, especially on grass.

These losses are bad news, since I think these problems relate to confidence issues. Maria just does not look happy on court these days. Even when she's winning. Only raerely do you see that old "I'm going to take you down," look.

Another indication that she desperately needs eexperienced new input into her game and preparation.

narutos
Jun 13th, 2010, 06:07 PM
I think people are overreacting here Maria didn't play that good but seriously her serve held up pretty well this tournament I swear she was constantly serving hard and well except maybe in the final, this loss won't affect her result at Wimbledon we all know that.
I think Maria will surprise a lot of people at Wimbledon.

~MashyOwnThemAll
Jun 13th, 2010, 06:23 PM
I think people are overreacting here Maria didn't play that good but seriously her serve held up pretty well this tournament I swear she was constantly serving hard and well except maybe in the final, this loss won't affect her result at Wimbledon we all know that.
I think Maria will surprise a lot of people at Wimbledon.

Oh yes, rnd3 early exit :rolleyes:

Marilyn Monheaux
Jun 13th, 2010, 06:36 PM
I think people are overreacting here Maria didn't play that good but seriously her serve held up pretty well this tournament I swear she was constantly serving hard and well except maybe in the final, this loss won't affect her result at Wimbledon we all know that.
I think Maria will surprise a lot of people at Wimbledon.

Overreacting, maybe, but I think people a concerned for a reason. Maria serves and playes GOAT against players outside the Top 50 (or Top 100 for that matter), but she can't keep it together against a "Top player".
Her problems seem to be mentally at the moment and this will surely affect her at Wimbledon, a Grand Slam tournament where is always very much in the center of attention and on everyone's map for a title run. Especially with the way she's been playing lately.


Oh yes, rnd3 early exit :rolleyes:

That would hardly be a surprise, no?:shrug::lol:

narutos
Jun 13th, 2010, 07:06 PM
Overreacting, maybe, but I think people a concerned for a reason. Maria serves and playes GOAT against players outside the Top 50 (or Top 100 for that matter), but she can't keep it together against a "Top player".
Her problems seem to be mentally at the moment and this will surely affect her at Wimbledon, a Grand Slam tournament where is always very much in the center of attention and on everyone's map for a title run. Especially with the way she's been playing lately.

Since Strasbourg she only played Li Na and Henin as top player and I say since Strasbourg because I saw the improvement on her serve since this tournament.
She made 7DF in a three setter against Henin that's really not bad I think she made the 7 ones in the first set btw then there was no DF at all and the stats on her serve were pretty well more than 60% points won on 1st serve and more than 50% on her second serve.
Today she seemed really tired to me she was really slow and you know Li definitely took her chance and played well.

That would hardly be a surprise, no?

Maybe I meant 4th round, that would be a surprise:lol:

xan
Jun 13th, 2010, 07:09 PM
Maybe Maria WAS tired - but still....

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1748/pap58811441.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/pap58811441.jpg/)