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View Full Version : Kimiko Date compares Graf/Henin to Serena


Kworb
May 27th, 2010, 06:19 PM
:eek:

Q. As far as you are on the tour from in the early '90s, beginning of the '90s and the past century, the 20th Century, you're a real good witness to compare the evolution of the tour of women's tennis. For example, since the age of Steffi and Arantxa until this day, 20 years, big difference, those days when you were playing Steffi and Arantxa and the others, what's so different like these days or is very similar? I don't know. You may answer.
KIMIKO DATE KRUMM: Yeah, I think women's tennis is more powerful now and more speedy compared to '90s, but at some point before '90s it's more they had more technique, I think. For example, Steffi can hit backhand slice, but now not so many people can hit backhand slice or a little bit only now women's tennis is only power.
They don't use more sometimes using the court ball wider or moving to front, back, or using the slice. It's I think more interesting the '90s it's more interesting, I think.
But now women's tennis more powerful and they're more quick, so (cellphone ringing.)
Some point it's different, plus/minus. Always before it's some plus points, and now more speedy, so it's difficult to say.

Q. I'm not clear. Two things: I'm not clear. Are you saying do you think the game ultimately is better now or then? Also on a slow hardcourt, who would win, Steffi Graf or Serena Williams?
KIMIKO DATE KRUMM: I don't know. (laughter.)
Very difficult question. I don't know. I like Steffi Graf. She's super athlete, I think. Justine Henin, also super athlete.
But of course Serena also is very tough player and more powerful, more strong she has strong mental. So very, very difficult to answer.

Q. Are you putting Steffi No. 1 and then who would be 2 and 3 between those three?
KIMIKO DATE KRUMM: I like Steffi Graf and Justine Henin, yeah.

Tripp
May 27th, 2010, 06:22 PM
She's just saying she likes Henin and Graf's style better, not that they are better players. She complimented Serena as well.

Stop trying to make such a big drama out of every statement a player makes.

goldenlox
May 27th, 2010, 06:22 PM
She also said it was difficult to answer. It wasn't meant as an insult to Serena

tim2502
May 27th, 2010, 06:22 PM
She didn't say that. :o

CloudAtlas
May 27th, 2010, 06:22 PM
These older players have no respect for the young'uns these days :mad:

Chorophyll
May 27th, 2010, 06:23 PM
No one is safe these days.

Polikarpov
May 27th, 2010, 06:24 PM
Congratulations for distorting the quote.

spiritedenergy
May 27th, 2010, 06:24 PM
not banned yet?:tears:

AcesHigh
May 27th, 2010, 06:24 PM
She didnt say that

Noctis
May 27th, 2010, 06:25 PM
Kworb WTF are you trying she's just a nice 40 year old lady.
She rank who she likes it's different :o

manu32
May 27th, 2010, 06:25 PM
the poster is pathetic, read the interview and change the title,she doesn't say that at all...

hingisGOAT
May 27th, 2010, 06:25 PM
Of course anyone who has played both Graf and Serena would think that Graf is better -- have you seen some of Steffi's head-to-head records? :eek:

John.
May 27th, 2010, 06:25 PM
:rolleyes:

Kworb
May 27th, 2010, 06:25 PM
She said it. :shrug: He's asking her to rank them according to who's better and she says Steffi and Justine.

tennisbum79
May 27th, 2010, 06:26 PM
Kworb WTF are you trying she's just a nice 40 year old lady.
She rank who she likes it's different :o

Correct.

She prefer Henin and Steffi to Serena. That much was clear

TennisFan66
May 27th, 2010, 06:27 PM
She's just saying she likes Henin and Graf's style better, not that they are better players. She complimented Serena as well.

Stop trying to make such a big drama out of every statement a player makes.

:yeah:

Every single player comment/quote is totally blown out of proportion .. Perspective people please. We are not in the school yard gossiping about other kids.

Noctis
May 27th, 2010, 06:28 PM
She said she don't know
She said she likes Steffi and Henin (likes)

Stop making something out of nothing

Olórin
May 27th, 2010, 06:29 PM
Kworb you are such a mess with all these "quote threads" :lol:
...which you then misquote...

BuTtErFrEnA
May 27th, 2010, 06:31 PM
kworb don't you have an ana thread to go troll :lol:

Kworb
May 27th, 2010, 06:31 PM
She said she don't know
She said she likes Steffi and Henin (likes)

Stop making something out of nothing
Her poor English isn't an excuse. She knows what he asked and answered accordingly.

Jienus
May 27th, 2010, 06:31 PM
The OP is unintelligent.

Olórin
May 27th, 2010, 06:32 PM
Her poor English isn't an excuse. She knows what he asked and answered accordingly.

Her English is better than yours judging by your reading comprehension skills :shrug:

moby
May 27th, 2010, 06:37 PM
I'm loving this, Kworb.

Ferg
May 27th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Fuck off.

Anabelcroft
May 27th, 2010, 06:56 PM
Well,even if she said that that's her opinion and if she as a player thinks so,that's about it!

dsanders06
May 27th, 2010, 06:59 PM
She's a hater.

fouc
May 27th, 2010, 07:00 PM
Her English is better than yours judging by your reading comprehension skills :shrug:

This. Embarrassing comprehension skills from thread starter. :o

Kworb
May 27th, 2010, 07:05 PM
So many people in denial. :rolleyes: Here is one of the legends of the game who has played top tennis in three different decades. No one is a better judge than Kimiko. And she picks Steffi and Justine as the best. :shrug: Extremely interesting and groundbreaking comment. Discuss that instead of taking her broken English too literally.

miffedmax
May 27th, 2010, 07:05 PM
Last I heard, KDK is entitled to have opinions, too.

edificio
May 27th, 2010, 07:09 PM
She said she preferred Graf and Henin, but she suggests they are better. I think she likes their games better. That's okay. However, Serena's Slam numbers trump Henin's. So Serena is better. Doesn't mean Date has to like it. :)

Has Date ever played Serena? I'm curious now.

volta
May 27th, 2010, 07:10 PM
She's just saying she likes Henin and Graf's style better, not that they are better players. She complimented Serena as well.

Stop trying to make such a big drama out of every statement a player makes.

+1

miffedmax
May 27th, 2010, 07:10 PM
Her poor English isn't an excuse. She knows what he asked and answered accordingly.

POOR ENGLISH IS ALWAYS AN EXCUSE!

Kworb
May 27th, 2010, 07:12 PM
POOR ENGLISH IS ALWAYS AN EXCUSE!
:haha:

Diesel
May 27th, 2010, 07:13 PM
She said she preferred Graf and Henin, but she suggests they are better. I think she likes their games better. That's okay. However, Serena's Slam numbers trump Henin's. So Serena is better. Doesn't mean Date has to like it. :)

Has Date ever played Serena? I'm curious now.

Exactly. At the end of the day that's fact and Kimiko has her right to her own opinion.

miffedmax
May 27th, 2010, 07:14 PM
She said she preferred Graf and Henin, but she suggests they are better. I think she likes their games better. That's okay. However, Serena's Slam numbers trump Henin's. So Serena is better. Doesn't mean Date has to like it. :)

Has Date ever played Serena? I'm curious now.

I read it as Data intentionally deflecting the question from "Who do you think is better?" to "Whose game do you like better?" and thus being able to give a more neutral, less controversial answer.

I think it's more indicative of her being a canny old pro that limited English proficiency or giving an objective ranking of the players.

narutos
May 27th, 2010, 07:21 PM
Numbers don't lie except for Graf though.

treufreund
May 27th, 2010, 07:26 PM
Face it. Kimiko is close friends with Shino and is therefore biased against Serena. Japan already loved Steffi and Justine and now Japan has turned against Serena forever. :p

ZODIAC
May 27th, 2010, 07:31 PM
isnt her husband Belgian or German,I want her to play Serena at Wimbledon or USA Open....the linejudge at USA Open 09 is a japanese-american and Date is Japanese....and Serena likes to call seniors ...Dust

Lady
May 27th, 2010, 07:36 PM
Wow, one more player who admires Justine's play? We need to add her to the list! :angel:

And that's an honor, coming from such a experienced player.

mauresmofan
May 27th, 2010, 08:20 PM
Well Kimiko mentioned what a lack of variety there is in todays game and preffered the use of the court back in the 90s when slice was a big part of the game - half todays players wouldn't know how to execute let alone deal with a great slice which is probably why players like Martinez Sanchez are having such great success (apart from this years french of course) at the moment. She answered the question as well as her broken english would allow and it's a fair point - she isn't a big fan of the big power game and Serena is the queen of the big power game so of course she's prefer the Graf/Henin style. Thread title is WRONG!

DevilishAttitude
May 27th, 2010, 08:23 PM
She's clearly a racist, just like the lineswomen from the US Open SF, we know the similarity.. :rolleyes:

;)

goat
May 27th, 2010, 08:26 PM
Especially since it was on Clay Court that they were referring to. So why wouldn't Graf and Henin be above Williams?
Original post = idiotte post.
Original Poster = Liar :lol:

goat
May 27th, 2010, 08:27 PM
Wow, one more player who admires Justine's play? We need to add her to the list! :angel:

And that's an honor, coming from such a experienced player.


Why do you say that aas if it were an honour for you?
;)

Lady
May 27th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Why do you say that aas if it were an honour for you?
;)

Where did I say that it's an honor to me?

goat
May 27th, 2010, 08:32 PM
Where did I say that it's an honor to me?

Obviously unable to detirmine what "as if" means or read a satirical remark. Nevermind.

Lady
May 27th, 2010, 08:34 PM
Obviously unable to detirmine what "as if" means or read a satirical remark. Nevermind.

Obviously. Can you also explain the point of that satirical remark? So I won't get confused the next time?

Dunedin20
May 27th, 2010, 11:00 PM
I love Kimiko! :-)

debopero
May 27th, 2010, 11:09 PM
the players like Henin because she's more beatable

tennisforadults
May 27th, 2010, 11:33 PM
So many people in denial. :rolleyes: Here is one of the legends of the game who has played top tennis in three different decades. No one is a better judge than Kimiko. And she picks Steffi and Justine as the best. :shrug: Extremely interesting and groundbreaking comment. Discuss that instead of taking her broken English too literally.

You are the only person in constant denial about your own misinterpretation of the interview. :help:

She says she prefers Steffi's and Justine's games to Serena's because they've got more variety. She did not say they are 'better' players than Serena.

It's like asking what your favourite movie is. You may say 'Transformers' but will you say it's the best movie of all time (objectively)? They are two different questions, unless you have no idea how to differentiate objective from subjective.

jdtennisusa
May 28th, 2010, 12:34 AM
She's a hater.

While that word aptly describes you, it does not apply to Kimiko. Kimiko's statements did not include any vile epithets directed at Serena. She simply expressed an opinion (with no apparent agenda or axe to grind).

DOUBLEFIST
May 28th, 2010, 12:37 AM
:shrug:

I see nothing wrong with her statement.

I disagree, but this forum is LITTERED with posters who agree with her. To each their own. At the end of the day, the numbers don't lie.

LDVTennis
May 28th, 2010, 01:00 AM
Q. I'm not clear. Two things: I'm not clear. Are you saying do you think the game ultimately is better now or then? Also on a slow hardcourt, who would win, Steffi Graf or Serena Williams?
KIMIKO DATE KRUMM: I don't know. (laughter.)
Very difficult question. I don't know. I like Steffi Graf. She's super athlete, I think. Justine Henin, also super athlete.
But of course Serena also is very tough player and more powerful, more strong she has strong mental. So very, very difficult to answer.

Q. Are you putting Steffi No. 1 and then who would be 2 and 3 between those three?
KIMIKO DATE KRUMM: I like Steffi Graf and Justine Henin, yeah.

Just what some of us have been arguing all this time.

Note that Kamiko does not consider Serena, a super athlete. She just thinks that Serena is "more powerful."

Translation. Serena is just a bigger girl, not more skillful or athletic than Steffi or Justine.

brickhousesupporter
May 28th, 2010, 01:16 AM
Just what some of us have been arguing all this time.

Note that Kamiko does not consider Serena, a super athlete. She just thinks that Serena is "more powerful."

Translation. Serena is just a bigger girl, not more skillful or athletic than Steffi or Justine.


I agree.........I mean look how she just towers over Steffi
http://www.lawntennis.org/news2009/march/serena-williams-steffi-graf-indian-wells.jpg

LDVTennis
May 28th, 2010, 01:50 AM
I agree.........I mean look how she just towers over Steffi
http://www.lawntennis.org/news2009/march/serena-williams-steffi-graf-indian-wells.jpg

Ah, one of the rare photographs that crops Steffi's body at the waist. Those legs and that body were a work of art.

But, in this case, I can see why the editor had to crop the photo --- :lol::lol::lol:

jdtennisusa
May 28th, 2010, 01:51 AM
Just what some of us have been arguing all this time.

Note that Kamiko does not consider Serena, a super athlete. She just thinks that Serena is "more powerful."

Translation. Serena is just a bigger girl, not more skillful or athletic than Steffi or Justine.

Yes, you are so right. Serena's not a super athlete, she has no variety or skill in her game--she just uses pure power and nothing else. Oh, let me spell it out for you because yoe seem to be unable to discern or see what is or should be clear--I am being sarcastic in making the foregoing statements about Serena.

Is Serena the most powerful tennis player there is? If she is not, then what makes her better than the girls with more power? Can Serena hit a backhand slice? Can she volley, hit topspin lobs or dropshots, or move well enough to cover the court? If your answers to the foregoing questions is no, you have not been "arguing" anything--you've just been making inane assertions.

LDVTennis
May 28th, 2010, 01:58 AM
Is Serena the most powerful tennis player there is? If she is not, then what makes her better than the girls with more power? Can Serena hit a backhand slice? Can she volley, hit topspin lobs or dropshots, or move well enough to cover the court? If your answers to the foregoing questions is no, you have not been "arguing" anything--you've just been making inane assertions.

So, you know what an assertion is?

Then, try making one instead of asking questions that are hardly rhetorical.

brickhousesupporter
May 28th, 2010, 02:03 AM
Ah, one of the rare photographs that crops Steffi's body at the waist. Those legs and that body were a work of art.

But, in this case, I can see why the editor had to crop the photo --- :lol::lol::lol:

Here is one with them showing their legs.....since it is so important to you.....I don't know but I think Serena got her beat in the body dept look at her hour glass shape and curves.

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/serena-williams-2006-arthur-ashe-kids-day-for-the-us-open-8dqn6V.jpg

jdtennisusa
May 28th, 2010, 02:12 AM
So, you know what an assertion is?

Then, try making one instead of asking questions that are hardly rhetorical.

How cheeky and cute (that's an assertion)--now try answering the questions I originally posed. Oh wait, if you actually did, you would prove my point about Serena and her tennis skills involving more than just power.

envisiond2010
May 28th, 2010, 02:36 AM
Here is one with them showing their legs.....since it is so important to you.....I don't know but I think Serena got her beat in the body dept look at her hour glass shape and curves.

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/serena-williams-2006-arthur-ashe-kids-day-for-the-us-open-8dqn6V.jpg

:lol: owned.

LDVTennis
May 28th, 2010, 02:38 AM
Here is one with them showing their legs.....since it is so important to you.....I don't know but I think Serena got her beat in the body dept look at her hour glass shape and curves.

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/serena-williams-2006-arthur-ashe-kids-day-for-the-us-open-8dqn6V.jpg

To each his own, I guess.

Not my idea of beauty, athletic or otherwise.

I mean honestly if you stood Serena, Gisele Bundchen, and Steffi next to each other, which body would stand out, but not in a good way? --- :lol:

Mightymirza
May 28th, 2010, 02:47 AM
To each their own :shrug: I agree with her as well doesnt mean everyone else will!

jdtennisusa
May 28th, 2010, 02:54 AM
To each his own, I guess.

Not my idea of beauty, athletic or otherwise.

I mean honestly if you stood Serena, Gisele Bundchen, and Steffi next to each other, which body would stand out, but not in a good way? --- :lol:

I mean, honestly, there would be quite a few people who would pick Steffi as the odd one out in your lineup. It also matters who you ask--it's clear who you and your ilk would choose.

brickhousesupporter
May 28th, 2010, 02:54 AM
To each his own, I guess.

Not my idea of beauty, athletic or otherwise.

I mean honestly if you stood Serena, Gisele Bundchen, and Steffi next to each other, which body would stand out, but not in a good way? --- :lol:

http://i45.tinypic.com/23t13dz.jpg
You are absolutely correct, I forgot that the order of supermodels: Cindy, Naomi, Claudia, and Steffi. :lol:

Stop being a revisionist.....Steffi was not even considered attractive in her peak. That honor went to Sabatini.

LDVTennis
May 28th, 2010, 02:55 AM
How cheeky and cute (that's an assertion)--now try answering the questions I originally posed. Oh wait, if you actually did, you would prove my point about Serena and her tennis skills involving more than just power.

The argument we are discussing in this thread was made by Kamiko Date. She was the one who opined that today's players, including Serena, lack the variety of shotmaking that characterized the players of the 90's, specifically Steffi.

It would not be too difficult a task to pick out any match involving Serena to show this to be true. It also would not be too difficult to pick out a match to show just how much more complete a player Steffi was than all of today's players.

I'm not going to waste my time doing this, however. You are welcome to review my archive of Steffi's shots. See http://www.youtube.com/user/LDVTennis. If I had ever seen Serena execute half as many shots as Steffi could just from the forehand side, you can bet I would be a fan of hers. I am not!

LDVTennis
May 28th, 2010, 02:58 AM
I mean, honestly, there would be quite a few people who would pick Steffi as the odd one out in your lineup. It also matters who you ask--it's clear who you and your ilk would choose.

We get it. We really do. You are a deluded fan of Serena.

To you, Serena looks just like Gisele. How could I not see this? --- :haha:

spencercarlos
May 28th, 2010, 03:08 AM
http://i45.tinypic.com/23t13dz.jpg
You are absolutely correct, I forgot that the order of supermodels: Cindy, Naomi, Claudia, and Steffi. :lol:

Stop being a revisionist.....Steffi was not even considered attractive in her peak. That honor went to Sabatini.
That is not true... They both were very attractive, most fans name either one of them as the most attractive... I can tell you it was a close call.. Not for me though :p

ZODIAC
May 28th, 2010, 03:10 AM
We get it. We really do. You are a deluded fan of Serena.

To you, Serena looks just like Gisele. How could I not see this? --- :haha:not everyone thinks Gisele is beautiful,I think she is overrated with a horseface and Steffi looks great from the neck down and Serena appeals to a group of people that likes sexy curvy women
.
I remember seing Gisele on the cover of Vanity Fair with a Masai warrior,I guess they asked him how it feels to be next to a very beautiful woman and he said she is not his type because he likes his woman black and curvy plus she isnot pretty...so not everyone likes white women.:p

brickhousesupporter
May 28th, 2010, 03:14 AM
That is not true... They both were very attractive, most fans name either one of them as the most attractive... I can tell you it was a close call.. Not for me though :p
To each his own I guess, but for me it was not even close. I don't remember Steffi have any endorsements that capitalized on her beauty. I am not saying that she looked like Navratilova, but it was not not even close between her and Gabby. Also, lets be honest, during Steffi's peak the beauty pickings were very slim. So in that context I could see how she was considered attractive.

jdtennisusa
May 28th, 2010, 03:26 AM
We get it. We really do. You are a deluded fan of Serena.

To you, Serena looks just like Gisele. How could I not see this? --- :haha:

Steffi looks just like Gisele? How could I not see this? LOL indeed.

harloo
May 28th, 2010, 03:40 AM
I don't find anything she said offensive. What is the purpose of this thread? SMH.

Donny
May 28th, 2010, 03:48 AM
To each his own, I guess.

Not my idea of beauty, athletic or otherwise.

I mean honestly if you stood Serena, Gisele Bundchen, and Steffi next to each other, which body would stand out, but not in a good way? --- :lol:

You mean if you lined up two thin caucasian women of European ancestry up next to a thick dark woman of African ancestry, the black woman would stand out? No wai! Damn, I can tell how rigorous Yale was back in the day. Impeccable argument.

Roookie
May 28th, 2010, 04:03 AM
we agree with you Kimiko...:yeah:

friendsita
May 28th, 2010, 04:14 AM
It's her opinion...

harloo
May 28th, 2010, 04:41 AM
The argument we are discussing in this thread was made by Kamiko Date. She was the one who opined that today's players, including Serena, lack the variety of shotmaking that characterized the players of the 90's, specifically Steffi.

It would not be too difficult a task to pick out any match involving Serena to show this to be true. It also would not be too difficult to pick out a match to show just how much more complete a player Steffi was than all of today's players.

I'm not going to waste my time doing this, however. You are welcome to review my archive of Steffi's shots. See http://www.youtube.com/user/LDVTennis. If I had ever seen Serena execute half as many shots as Steffi could just from the forehand side, you can bet I would be a fan of hers. I am not!

You've already wasted your time writing this inaccurate post twisting Kimiko's words to promote your hatred of Serena. Let's get a few things straight:

1). Kimiko Date was asked about the players of today's era vs. the 90's and she gave an honest answer. While not everyone may agree with her nowhere in her response did she single out or insult any one player. For you to attempt to turn the argument into Steffi vs. Serena is disingenuous and proves how biased your posts are.

2). She never compared Steffi to Serena as it pertains to talent or shot making ability. When questioned about who would win a match between Steffi, Henin, and Serena she simply pointed out the strengths of all three and determined it would be a tough call. Her only admission is that she liked Steffi and Henin more and that's her right.

3). I find it quite disturbing that old and foggy tennis snobs such as yourself and Steffica continue to navigate this board insulting today's players every chance you get. The 80's and 90's aren't coming back. The game is faster, the girls hit harder on both sides, and use different rackets. If that bothers you so much find a hobby. :help: Tennis is always evolving and their is nothing you can do about it.

stangtennis
May 28th, 2010, 05:14 AM
Of course anyone who has played both Graf and Serena would think that Graf is better -- have you seen some of Steffi's head-to-head records? :eek:
Kimiko has never played any of the Williams sisters or Henin.

kiwifan
May 28th, 2010, 05:15 AM
Damn, the haters are 'reaching for material today' :haha:


:yawn:

LDVTennis
May 28th, 2010, 07:06 AM
You mean if you lined up two thin caucasian women of European ancestry up next to a thick dark woman of African ancestry, the black woman would stand out? No wa[y]!

Serena would not stand out because she was black. See Naomi Campbell. She would stand out because as you just admitted it Serena is thick. Gisele, Naomi, and Steffi are not thick (fat).

In any case, I made my point. I wanted to show how deluded some of Serena's fans are. One of her fans thinks that Serena has a better body than Steffi. Yeah, when did anyone ever wonder if Steffi was fat or overweight? One of Serena's fans even thinks that Serena has more in common with Gisele from a physical standpoint than Steffi does. Serena fans, what a hoot you are!

Slutiana
May 28th, 2010, 07:33 AM
Serena would not stand out because she was black. See Naomi Campbell. She would stand out because as you just admitted it Serena is thick. Gisele, Naomi, and Steffi are not thick (fat).

In any case, I made my point. I wanted to show how deluded some of Serena's fans are. One of her fans thinks that Serena has a better body than Steffi. Yeah, when did anyone ever wonder if Steffi was fat or overweight? One of Serena's fans even thinks that Serena has more in common with Gisele from a physical standpoint than Steffi does. Serena fans, what a hoot you are!
Lol, you are such a fool. Keep trolling! :yeah:

Calypso
May 28th, 2010, 06:28 PM
Wow, one more player who admires Justine's play? We need to add her to the list! :angel:

And that's an honor, coming from such a experienced player.

She clearly likes players who have more variety to their game (slice, etc.), and she's entitled to her opinion just like every body else.

However, there is no need for controversy with Date's comment, Kimiko simply stated her preference for Graf and Henin's style of play, and diplomatically refused to say who was better.

I wonder why people get their knickers in a twist whenever player X, however great they were, makes an opinion on whom they think was the better player?

It shouldn't necessarily change your opinion on who you think is better, or make you angry :lol:.