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View Full Version : Venus Williams: "I Blame Monica Seles!!"


Foot_Fault
May 26th, 2010, 06:24 PM
Venus was asked about screaming on court...

Q. You're among the players who tend to scream a little bit on court. Is there a meaning to that? I mean, does it give you energy, or is it more like a weapon against the opponent?
VENUS WILLIAMS: Yeah, I started because Monica Seles was my favorite player when I was 10. So I started grunting, and that was 20 years ago. I haven't stopped.
I blame Monica.

Cute. Do you think players grunt to just grunt or is there a motive?
I tell you when I play, I grunt but it helps me keep a hitting rhythm.

Wiggly
May 26th, 2010, 06:28 PM
Some of these grunts are humans, some aren't.

I mean, Petkovis's grunt is beyond weird.
And grunt when you hit the freaking ball, not when your opponent is about to hit it back.

The choking dog sound à la Garbin isn't pretty either.

I'm 100% sure some of these grunts are lame tactics.

Miss Atomic Bomb
May 26th, 2010, 06:29 PM
I find it interesting that both the sisters had ClayGoat Seles as their idol :)

tennisbum79
May 26th, 2010, 06:32 PM
Some of these grunts are humans, some aren't.

I mean, Petkovis's grunt is beyond weird.
And grunt when you hit the freaking ball, not when your opponent is about to hit it back.

The choking dog sound à la Garbin isn't pretty either.

I'm 100% sure some of these grunts are lame tactics.
There is aslo an ATP palyer who grunts long after the ball has left his racket
But his is makes a oozing sound

Dave.
May 26th, 2010, 06:34 PM
There is aslo an ATP palyer who grunts long after the ball has left his racket
But his is makes a oozing sound

Coria?

Haute
May 26th, 2010, 06:37 PM
Is there any sort of credibility to the stance that grunting is to help keep a breathing rhythm?

tennisbum79
May 26th, 2010, 06:37 PM
Coria?
I was thinking Ignacio Chela..

Dave.
May 26th, 2010, 06:44 PM
I was thinking Ignacio Chela..

Ah of course! I have my volume down right now so can't hear it. :p

soul
May 26th, 2010, 06:48 PM
I put Seles apart from theother players.Hers was just a reaction and did never bother me at all as a teenis fan ; not as a Seles fan.But nowadays girs are SCREAMING louder andlouder and it is really really annoying.

tennisbum79
May 26th, 2010, 06:49 PM
Is there any sort of credibility to the stance that grunting is to help keep a breathing rhythm?
There no study done about it, but anecdotally, the player must think it adds something to their performance, using it than not using

sammy01
May 26th, 2010, 06:50 PM
the problem with the arguement that men grunt to is that to the human ear a lower tone grunt is less annoying than a higher pitch grunt. women have higher voices thus it tends to be more annoying. vika is a prime example of someone who is pretty painful to listen to.

overall grunting has gone too far now to stop it or do anything about it, be men or women.

Slutiana
May 26th, 2010, 06:53 PM
Is there any sort of credibility to the stance that grunting is to help keep a breathing rhythm?
For some it is, for some it helps them keeps their intensity. And if what Venus is saying is true, has probably become a conditioned reaction to dealing with the tension, pressure and intensity of a match when it gets tight. Very rarely do you see her come out grunting from the first ball.

sammy01
May 26th, 2010, 06:54 PM
There nos study done about it, but anecdotally, the player must think it add something to their performance, using it than not using

from all my years of watching and playing tennis, i think grunting is a tactic, not to put the opponent off, but to show how much effort you are putting in and trying. much like the ever annoying cmon or allez, or fistpump they are all designed to show the opponent look how hard im fighting for this. hence why serena when playing some random scrub nobody early on is silent as she likes to show she is good enough to beat them without putting loads of effort in, but obviously if it gets tight she starts grunting loudly to show she fighting like a tiger.

Dave.
May 26th, 2010, 06:57 PM
the problem with the arguement that men grunt to is that to the human ear a lower tone grunt is less annoying than a higher pitch grunt. women have higher voices thus it tends to be more annoying. vika is a prime example of someone who is pretty painful to listen to.

overall grunting has gone too far now to stop it or do anything about it now, be men or women.

That doesn't (shouldn't) make men's grunting any more acceptable. Anyway that's up to the listener to decide. I love Azarenka's grunt but hate Sharapova's. :shrug: The most annoying grunt I've heard, male or female, is probably Daniele Bracciali's. So it's an individual thing really.

sammy01
May 26th, 2010, 06:59 PM
That doesn't (shouldn't) make men's grunting any more acceptable. Anyway that's up to the listener to decide. I love Azarenka's grunt but hate Sharapova's. :shrug: The most annoying grunt I've heard, male or female, is probably Daniele Bracciali's. So it's an individual thing really.

i meant in general, you prefer doubles to singles, you're odd anyway (my obligatory swipe at doubles is out the way now :p)

Dave.
May 26th, 2010, 07:04 PM
i meant in general, you prefer doubles to singles, you're odd anyway (my obligatory swipe at doubles is out the way now :p)

:haha: Ouch. :sad:

No need to swipe anymore, your fave doubles team to hate have broken up now. :p

sammy01
May 26th, 2010, 07:08 PM
:haha: Ouch. :sad:

No need to swipe anymore, your fave doubles team to hate have broken up now. :p

i shed a tear, of joy.

still :hug: for you, i may think huber is a talentless hack and black's a midget whos biggest problem was getting out of the way of huber and the buffet table, but i know how much you liked them :kiss:

laurie
May 26th, 2010, 07:11 PM
I find it interesting that both the sisters had ClayGoat Seles as their idol :)

Seles did win the US Open twice, I woudn't call her a clay specialist, and she was based in America so its entirely reasonable to look up to Seles when they were little.

Foot_Fault
May 26th, 2010, 07:13 PM
Is there any sort of credibility to the stance that grunting is to help keep a breathing rhythm?

I would say no. It would be credible to say it help you with breathing. But for me....I'm not loud- loud, but I do a dual grunt...like Huh--HUH! So it's like small one on the bounce and Loud one when I hit the ball. But it helps me with my hitting rhythm.

narutos
May 26th, 2010, 07:14 PM
That doesn't (shouldn't) make men's grunting any more acceptable. Anyway that's up to the listener to decide. I love Azarenka's grunt but hate Sharapova's. :shrug: The most annoying grunt I've heard, male or female, is probably Daniele Bracciali's. So it's an individual thing really.

You just hate Sharapova because she owns your fave. There is no way you can stand Azarenka's grunts over Sharapova's ones.

WhatTheDeuce
May 26th, 2010, 11:29 PM
BOW BOW BOW, Venus has the best taste in everything.

Viva brown underpants.

Craig.
May 26th, 2010, 11:35 PM
That doesn't (shouldn't) make men's grunting any more acceptable. Anyway that's up to the listener to decide. I love Azarenka's grunt but hate Sharapova's. :shrug: The most annoying grunt I've heard, male or female, is probably Daniele Bracciali's. So it's an individual thing really.

Probably cause you love Azarenka and hate Sharapova :lol:

mboyle
May 26th, 2010, 11:37 PM
Coria?

I remember when I was like 14 and watched him in the French open final with some of my buddies. My mom walked into my bed room because she thought we were watching porn...

Bayo
May 26th, 2010, 11:45 PM
Outside of Larcher de Brito (whom I otherwise like), the grunting doesn't bother me at all. Baltacha is another one with a psycho grunt.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 26th, 2010, 11:47 PM
some people actually grunt when they are putting more effort into something...during our warm ups and drills at volleyball i don't grunt but when we start a really serious drill like spiking i grunt (granted not like maria lol)...it's not planned but even though i don't do it in normal warm up doesn't mean it doesn't happen in matches or tough drills :shrug:

some people are just screaming but some are actually grunting because of the effort they are putting into their shots

tonybotz
May 26th, 2010, 11:58 PM
BOW BOW BOW, Venus has the best taste in everything.

Viva brown underpants.

hell yea!! RESPECT!

Gdsimmons
May 27th, 2010, 01:10 AM
Grunting for me seems natural for most women and men. For some it seems like a tactic but for the most part I think its natural. The grunting really does not bother me as I believe it shows the intensity level of a player.

Chorophyll
May 27th, 2010, 01:15 AM
She picked the best person to idolize. Monica what a player that Monica. Too bad Venus didn't pick up her steely determination and focus. :lol:

darkgemini87
May 27th, 2010, 02:26 AM
To be honest i love the grunting makes it more enjoyable to watch for me...
except for Larcher De Brito's grunt..

Jajaloo
May 27th, 2010, 03:12 AM
The commentators said on ES that the Bollettieri girls grunt because they're taught to exhale when they hit the ball.

AcesHigh
May 27th, 2010, 04:11 AM
She picked the best person to idolize. Monica what a player that Monica. Too bad Venus didn't pick up her steely determination and focus. :lol:

What Venus Williams have you watched for the past 10 years?

Anyway, for any fan of either WS, this is nothing new. The sisters idolized Monica and it makes sense.

As for grunting as a tactic.. I'm not sure about that, but I can see how it can be very distracting for opponent. Personally, focus is extremely important to me.. on the trajectory of the ball, recognizing what spin and even the sound of the ball off the opponent's racquet.. hearing someone shriek definitely distracts from that focus.

njnetswill
May 27th, 2010, 04:43 AM
I naturally grunt when I play, mostly when I serve or when I'm chasing after balls and exerting a lot of effort.

In many martial art forms, grunting or yelling is common to maintain intensity or when exerting strength :shrug:

tenn_ace
May 27th, 2010, 09:35 AM
god, people in my club now grunt. doesn't bother me at all but some find it distracting.

The Dawntreader
May 27th, 2010, 09:47 AM
After hearing Thiego Alves this week, the girls's grunting is completely absolved.

Ferg
May 27th, 2010, 09:49 AM
I like the two exclamation marks in the title and I dont know why.

Chorophyll
May 27th, 2010, 10:41 AM
What Venus Williams have you watched for the past 10 years?

Anyway, for any fan of either WS, this is nothing new. The sisters idolized Monica and it makes sense.

As for grunting as a tactic.. I'm not sure about that, but I can see how it can be very distracting for opponent. Personally, focus is extremely important to me.. on the trajectory of the ball, recognizing what spin and even the sound of the ball off the opponent's racquet.. hearing someone shriek definitely distracts from that focus.

:lol: Do you know anything about Seles at her highest? In a close match Seles maintained a vicegrip that was almost unbreakable. Her determination and concentration were as close to unwavering as you could get.

Venus wishes. If she did have Seles' intangibles, she would have far more than 7 majors. Not even close.

Olórin
May 27th, 2010, 10:50 AM
Venus wishes. If she did have Seles' intangibles, she would have far more than 7 majors. Not even close.

On the other hand, in the second half of her career (due to obvious reasons) Monica's resolve was somewhat less than at her Queenly peak. Not dissimilar at all to Venus who in the second half of her career (due to obvious reasons) has shown somewhat less resolve in critical moments than at her peak.

I actually think they're pretty comparable. Personality wise they don't seem so different either off-court.

AcesHigh
May 27th, 2010, 11:20 AM
:lol: Do you know anything about Seles at her highest? In a close match Seles maintained a vicegrip that was almost unbreakable. Her determination and concentration were as close to unwavering as you could get.

Venus wishes. If she did have Seles' intangibles, she would have far more than 7 majors. Not even close.

On the other hand, in the second half of her career (due to obvious reasons) Monica's resolve was somewhat less than at her Queenly peak. Not dissimilar at all to Venus who in the second half of her career (due to obvious reasons) has shown somewhat less resolve in critical moments than at her peak.

I actually think they're pretty comparable. Personality wise they don't seem so different either off-court.

I agree with Serena~lover. Venus at her peak had the intangibles.. i could turn it around and say if Seles had Venus's commitment in her second career, maybe she would have won more than 1 major. It's not like Seles was Graf or Navratilova or Evert.

sammy01
May 27th, 2010, 11:30 AM
I agree with Serena~lover. Venus at her peak had the intangibles.. i could turn it around and say if Seles had Venus's commitment in her second career, maybe she would have won more than 1 major. It's not like Seles was Graf or Navratilova or Evert.

i think this comparisson is very unfair to seles. she was out for 2 1/2 years of her prime through a stabbing, she had her fair share of injuries ontop of that. i don't ever recall venus being out of the game for more than 6 months.

if you want to compare, seles and her main rival graf had some amazing finals of slams, which seles often got the better of and both where in their prime, venus and her main rival serena met in many a final of slams to and serena got the better most of the time and the matches were anything but classic. mentally at their peaks seles>>>>>>>>>venus no doubt about it.

Olórin
May 27th, 2010, 11:35 AM
i think this comparisson is very unfair to seles. she was out for 2 1/2 years of her prime through a stabbing, she had her fair share of injuries ontop of that. i don't ever recall venus being out of the game for more than 6 months.

if you want to compare, seles and her main rival graf had some amazing finals of slams, which seles often got the better of and both where in their prime, venus and her main rival serena met in many a final of slams to and serena got the better most of the time and the matches were anything but classic. mentally at their peaks seles>>>>>>>>>venus no doubt about it.

Wow I'm shocked you passed up an opportunity to put Venus down. Oh no...you didn't :p
The comparison is not at all unfair to Seles. No-one said they were the same, just comparable. I understand this is just opinion but imo what is unfair is the entire premise of your post. Venus' peak was in 2000/2001 and her main rivals were Lindsay Davenport, Jennifer Capriati and Martina Hingis who were the other slam winners/#1s, Serena also but to a lesser extent, and she did beat Serena in a Grand Slam Final after all.

Other than that one loss to Hingis, Venus showed brilliant mentality against all of them sustaining a perfect record against Capriati including a match where she saved match points, coming back from near death against Hingis in a slam and owning a commanding record against Davenport during that period including 2-0 in slam finals.

This trend continued into 2003 and 2002 with Serena being the only player who managed to get the better of Venus consistently, and that because as you have said yourself many times is because she is a better player in general.

Chorophyll
May 27th, 2010, 11:38 AM
I agree with Serena~lover. Venus at her peak had the intangibles.. i could turn it around and say if Seles had Venus's commitment in her second career, maybe she would have won more than 1 major. It's not like Seles was Graf or Navratilova or Evert.

Venus at her peak won all of four majors at only two different venues including a R1 exit.

You're right if Seles had gotten herself in the shape she was in 2001/2002 back in 1996 that she would have gotten more than one major, but that doesn't take away from her special qualities. Yes, she's not Graf/Evert/Navratilova partially because her chance was diminished(not fully erased) by an unfortunate event.

Intangibles don't just fade away like what Venus shows now in tight matches. I think the aura of the Williams Sisters and her wave of confidence helped Venus out more than people think during that period. Similar to how Mauresmo was fighting herself out of all types of matches she would normally lose from YEC 2005 - YEC 2006.

sammy01
May 27th, 2010, 11:42 AM
Wow I'm shocked you passed up an opportunity to put Venus down. Oh no...you didn't :p
Venus' peak was in 2000/2001 and her main rivals were Lindsay Davenport, Jennifer Capriati and Martina Hingis who were the other slam winners/#1s, Serena also but to a lesser extent and she did beat Serena in a Grand Slam Final after all.

Other than that one loss to Hingis, Venus showed brilliant mentality to all of them sustaining a perfect record against Capriati including a match where she saved match points, coming back from near death against Hingis in a slam and owning a commanding record against Davenport during that period including 2-0 in slam finals. So naturally I disagree with the entire premise of that post.

This trend continued into 2003 and 2002 with Serena being the only player who managed to get the better of Venus consistently, and that because as you have said yourself many times is because she is a better player in general.

in that case i bow down to her 'prime years' losing to schett 1st round of the french and losing 6-1, 6-1 to hingis in a slam :worship:

you have basically just said serena is better than venus (i agree but then graf>>>>>>seles) and venus beat up on the other players until serena matured, then venus played 2nd fiddle to serena and mentally was getting beat up time and again by her even though she was consistently doing better in slams (f, f, f, f,) than in her 'peak years'.

seles came up against what most people consider the greatest player ever, she mentally took her on on the biggest stages and often got the better of her. venus has crumbled more often than not on the biggest stages against the best player since graf.

Matt01
May 27th, 2010, 12:04 PM
i think this comparisson is very unfair to seles. she was out for 2 1/2 years of her prime through a stabbing, she had her fair share of injuries ontop of that. i don't ever recall venus being out of the game for more than 6 months.

if you want to compare, seles and her main rival graf had some amazing finals of slams, which seles often got the better of and both where in their prime, venus and her main rival serena met in many a final of slams to and serena got the better most of the time and the matches were anything but classic. mentally at their peaks seles>>>>>>>>>venus no doubt about it.


This.