PDA

View Full Version : Who is mentally The GOAT ?


LightWarrior
Feb 12th, 2010, 11:34 PM
Serena once said that tennis is 90% mental. She has proven it several times as we all know.

My top 3 are :

1/ Serena
2/ Seles
3/ Evert

Evert was better known for her mental consistency rather than for her dramatic comebacks. But both Serena and Seles ('91 and '92, but even in 1996 when she won the AO) have been able to win slams staging remarkable comebacks several times. I'd give the edge to Serena for her MPs saved.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 12th, 2010, 11:36 PM
Serena once said that tennis is 90% mental. She has proven it several times as we all know.

My top 3 are :

1/ Serena
2/ Seles
3/ Evert

Evert was better known for her mental consistency rather than for her dramatic comebacks. But both Serena and Seles ('91 and '92, but even in 1996 when she won the AO) have been able to win slams staging remarkable comebacks several times. I'd give the edge to Serena for her MPs saved.
DITTO: but I'd probably put Graf right in there with Evert.

Chrissie-fan
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:05 AM
Serena once said that tennis is 90% mental. She has proven it several times as we all know.

My top 3 are :

1/ Serena
2/ Seles
3/ Evert

Evert was better known for her mental consistency rather than for her dramatic comebacks. But both Serena and Seles ('91 and '92, but even in 1996 when she won the AO) have been able to win slams staging remarkable comebacks several times. I'd give the edge to Serena for her MPs saved.
It's hard to argue against those three (or Graf for that matter). Having said that, maybe some lady who lost in the second round of Wimbledon in 1935 was mentally just as tough. Maybe she just had the misfortune to be less talented.

hellas719
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:05 AM
Active Players:
1-Serena
2-Wickmayer

Morisicki
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:07 AM
1. Maria Sharapova
2. Serena Williams
3. Ayumi Morita
4. Na Li

Noctis
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:13 AM
Lol at Ayumi and Na

Serena
Hardly lose a match after winning 1st set

WowWow
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:15 AM
I'd say Serena, but she also has the game to back it up.
If it only comes to mental strength with a weak game, I really can't think of any atm.

LightWarrior
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:16 AM
Serena
Hardly lose a match after winning 1st set

She's actually never lost a match in AO after having won the 1st set.

Volcana
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:17 AM
It's hard to argue against those three (or Graf for that matter). Having said that, maybe some lady who lost in the second round of Wimbledon in 1935 was mentally just as tough. Maybe she just had the misfortune to be less talented.good point.

I'd choose Evert, just because controlling your shots with the old wooden rackets, on grass courts, was so much harder than using today's oversize head, composite rackets on hard courts. Even clay courts from 35-49 years ago were a different proposition than today's clay. Roland Garros is practically a ahrad court tournament, the clay so so well groomed.

NOTE: You take a Hustler centerfold, combine it with a female body builder, and sprinkle in an Olympic sprinter, and you get ... Serena Williams. She's a genetic freak. The game is 90% mental FOR HER. She has, in essence, no physical limitations.

Caralenko
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:20 AM
I'd say Serena, but she also has the game to back it up.
If it only comes to mental strength with a weak game, I really can't think of any atm.

Wozniacki :lol: Girl has an iron skull.

Olórin
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:27 AM
Serena once said that tennis is 90% mental. She has proven it several times as we all know.

My top 3 are :

1/ Serena
2/ Seles
3/ Evert

Evert was better known for her mental consistency rather than for her dramatic comebacks. But both Serena and Seles ('91 and '92, but even in 1996 when she won the AO) have been able to win slams staging remarkable comebacks several times. I'd give the edge to Serena for her MPs saved.

But Chrissie had her fair share of comebacks too, probably more than Seles or Graf overall.
Here's a list of some of the best, not always coming back from the brink of defeat but managing to change the dynamic of the match in dramatic fashion after losing the first set:
63 36 75 def. Wade 1980 Wightman Cup r128
46 64 76 def. Austin 1981 Toyota Championships R3
36 61 76 def. Navratilova 1987 VS of Houston Final
26 63 63 def. Navratilova 1986 French Open Final
26 64 62 def. Goolagong 1975 VS of Boston SF
46 64 62 def. Navratilova 1980 Wimbledon SF
57 64 62 def. Goolagong 1975 US Open Final
46 61 61 def. Austin 1980 US Open SF
46 61 61 def. Mandlikova 1980 US Open Final
46 76 61 def. King 1973 Hilton Head SF
46 63 76 def. King 1975 Tuscon Final

But yeah, I agree with your list and would add in Graf.



1. Maria Sharapova
2. Serena Williams
3. Ayumi Morita
4. Na Li

No.

égalité
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:32 AM
I'd say Serena, but she also has the game to back it up.
If it only comes to mental strength with a weak game, I really can't think of any atm.

michelle larcher de brito :hearts:

Anyway, for players that are actually good, Serena and early-90s Seles are definitely the tops.

Also, pre-1999 RG Hingis is up there :hysteric:

NyCPsU
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:43 AM
Morita for sure. :worship:

Followed by Serena but its not that close.

Morisicki
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:43 AM
michelle larcher de brito :hearts:


She has great fight many times like against Johansson at US OPEN last year but it was her biggest weakness just two days later against Li

Morisicki
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:44 AM
Morita for sure. :worship:



:yeah:

spencercarlos
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:58 AM
Serena once said that tennis is 90% mental. She has proven it several times as we all know. But Graf has proven the most recently a whooping 22 times in grand slam finals.

My top 3 are :
1/Graf
2/ Serena
3/ Seles
4/ Evert

Graf was better known for her mental consistency AND than for her dramatic comebacks. But both Serena and Seles ('91 and '92, but even in 1996 when she won the AO) have been able to win slams staging remarkable comebacks several times. I'd give the edge to Graf for her many GS finals matches saved.
Corrected for you.. :devil:

young_gunner913
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:58 AM
1. Maria Sharapova
2. Serena Williams
3. Ayumi Morita
4. Na Li

:spit: Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....

anywho, Serena. :)

hellas719
Feb 13th, 2010, 01:02 AM
:yeah:

S/he was joking ;)

Donny
Feb 13th, 2010, 01:05 AM
Corrected for you.. :devil:

Fed is on 16 slams atm, I I wouldn't put him even as the mentally strongest among active players.

WowWow
Feb 13th, 2010, 01:12 AM
Wozniacki :lol: Girl has an iron skull.

Right! Forgot about her completely!

Potato
Feb 13th, 2010, 01:19 AM
Basically the people we consider GOATs are already mental GOATs, because to back up a big game, you need a strong mind.

Examples of players with an okay game but strong mental game - Many of the asian players, and Woz Woz Wozniacki

Chakvenus
Feb 13th, 2010, 01:20 AM
obviously, when it comes to mental toughness Anna Chakvetadze is right at the top...

bobcat
Feb 13th, 2010, 01:25 AM
After watching this video of Evert when she was 16 I'd go with her. It's almost eerie watching how calm she was being down all those match points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNfFV-hWp04

spencercarlos
Feb 13th, 2010, 01:26 AM
Fed is on 16 slams atm, I I wouldn't put him even as the mentally strongest among active players.
Federer chokes against Nadal terribly.
Just last year Federer choked 2 Grand Slam finals..
Graf rarely choked a big match, let alone rarely got to be dominated by one particular player.

dynamoRockstarr
Feb 13th, 2010, 02:02 AM
Mel Oudin ----- Believe

LightWarrior
Feb 13th, 2010, 04:00 AM
After watching this video of Evert when she was 16 I'd go with her. It's almost eerie watching how calm she was being down all those match points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNfFV-hWp04

That one is even better. The last match she won at Wimbledon...check out the passing shot...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uFQQXKnVto

Dunlop1
Feb 13th, 2010, 04:12 AM
Mel Oudin ----- Believe

Can you spell it :tape:

Dunlop1
Feb 13th, 2010, 04:16 AM
Roland Garros is practically a ahrad court tournament, the clay so so well groomed.

Que??
Care to expound on this?
Not sure I agree. If that surface was so homogenized to the USO, Rafa would have done better there and on hard in general.
Also I haven't played on the terre battue of RG, but I have on the green clay of ATP tournament and even that plays differently from Hard court.

Imperfect Angel
Feb 13th, 2010, 04:19 AM
Morita for sure. :worship:


The one who retired when she was down a set of bagel?:haha:
Yeah :cheer: Best way to lose a match.:cheer:

Rafito.
Feb 13th, 2010, 05:27 AM
Sharapova!

Rafito.
Feb 13th, 2010, 05:28 AM
Federer chokes against Nadal terribly.
Just last year Federer choked 2 Grand Slam finals..
Graf rarely choked a big match, let alone rarely got to be dominated by one particular player.

:hearts:

Sexysova
Feb 13th, 2010, 05:45 AM
Serena and Sharapova

davidmario
Feb 13th, 2010, 06:05 AM
Lubomira Kurhajcova... NOT:spit:

seriously, SERENA! She's a mental monster (in a positive way ;) )

tenn_ace
Feb 13th, 2010, 07:29 AM
Sveta hands down.

sammy01
Feb 13th, 2010, 08:20 AM
3 pages and no mention of dani, shocking lol

~{X}~
Feb 13th, 2010, 09:25 AM
Monica Seles Pre Stabbing.

I remember a few of the commentators saying they believed that was true a couple years ago.

Shinjiro
Feb 13th, 2010, 09:46 AM
After watching this video of Evert when she was 16 I'd go with her. It's almost eerie watching how calm she was being down all those match points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNfFV-hWp04

That one is even better. The last match she won at Wimbledon...check out the passing shot...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uFQQXKnVto
Thanks for those videos. :D

thrust
Feb 13th, 2010, 10:26 AM
DITTO: but I'd probably put Graf right in there with Evert.

Though I was never a Steffi fan, I would have to agree. Serena, Steffi, Seles and Evert were on the same level of mental toughness. Outside of Wimbledon, Court would be on the same level.

Sam L
Feb 13th, 2010, 10:33 AM
Though I was never a Steffi fan, I would have to agree. Serena, Steffi, Seles and Evert were on the same level of mental toughness. Outside of Wimbledon, Court would be on the same level.

THAT is a big "outside" though especially since it's not like she was crap on grass. :lol:

Matt01
Feb 13th, 2010, 10:52 AM
Pre-stabbing-Seles would be the obvious choice here but overall I guess it's Graf.

Of the current players, it's Serena, Henin and pre-shoulder-transplantation-Sharapova.


Federer chokes against Nadal terribly.


When did that happen?

Szavay #1
Feb 13th, 2010, 10:53 AM
imo serena

Shinjiro
Feb 13th, 2010, 11:16 AM
Pre-stabbing-Seles would be the obvious choice here but overall I guess it's Graf.

Of the current players, it's Serena, Henin and pre-shoulder-transplantation-Sharapova.

Federer chokes against Nadal terribly.
When did that happen?
Last time it did? AO 2009.

calico_101
Feb 13th, 2010, 04:46 PM
It has to be Seles. Never have I seen someone hit so many winners on crucial points, esp matchpoint down.

Shvedbarilescu
Feb 13th, 2010, 07:18 PM
Alltime I'd say Chris Evert, followed closely by Steffi Graf. Then Serena Williams and pre-stabbing Monica Seles would be almost a tie for third.

Of current players Serena Williams would be number one for sure, followed by Justine Henin and then pre-shoulder injury Maria Sharapova. Wozniacki and Wickmayer both look like they will be amongst the strongest mentally of the current younger generation although it is probably to early to be sure.

dynamoRockstarr
Feb 13th, 2010, 07:28 PM
Can you spell it :tape:

huh?? elaborate.

Marilyn Monheaux
Feb 13th, 2010, 07:36 PM
When did that happen?

I wouldn't call it choking, but he definitely gets rattled by Nadal whenever they play. He always has unusual miserable stats on break point conversion and unforced errors and especially in key moments he can't keep his cool.:shrug:

The two most obvious examples would be

AO 2009: Nadal def. Fed 7-5, 3-6, 7-6(3), 3-6, 6-2 :hearts: (Fed had all the momentum going into that final that, but just couldn't keep it together.)
FO 2008: 6-1, 6-3, 6-0 :spit:

Shinjiro
Feb 13th, 2010, 08:04 PM
huh?? elaborate.
Some sort of running (shoes) joke, shall we say. :)

Chrissie-fan
Feb 16th, 2010, 07:22 PM
Chrissie, Serena, Steffi, Monica, Maria all deserved a mention.

But let's not forget about someone who, although I've never seen her play, I'm sure must have been one of, if not THE mentally GOAT - Althea Gibson. Just think about it. Here's a woman who for years wasn't allowed to compete in tournaments because of the colour of her skin. And even when she could compete she was often not allowed to use the locker room like the other players, or eat in the dining room with them. While everyone else slept in a nice hotel, she was sleeping in a car. And there's no need to get into the attitudes that some of her colleagues probably had towards her. Let's just say that for her to have been able to deal with all that crap and win majors and become the No.1 player in the world she must have had the mental strenght of all those already mentionned combined.

Sund7101
Feb 16th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Pre-stabbing Monica Seles, Chris Evert, and Serena Williams all get mentions here.

Seles: So focused and determined from the first ball. She wanted to win and it was sustained.

Evert: Model of consistency and composure. She didn't let things get to her. She was always calm, cool, and collective.

Serena: Best comeback player of all-time. She goes for her shots the most when she is down and that's what I really admire about her.

All three of these women are some of my favorites of all-time because of their mental prowess. They are just incredible champions!

Craig.
Feb 16th, 2010, 08:51 PM
Serena
Seles
Graf
Evert
Henin/Venus
Sharapova

Arantxa is probably somewhere in there too.

Dunlop1
Feb 16th, 2010, 08:55 PM
Mel Oudin ----- Believe

Can you spell it :tape:

huh?? elaborate.

During one of Oudin's matches at last year's USO, Pam Shriver went in the stands to Mel's younger sister, put her on the spot and asked her to spell 'believe' and the poor girl stumbled on the spelling and Pam cut her off :rolleyes:

I was jokingly referring to that.

kiwifan
Feb 16th, 2010, 10:03 PM
Serena once said that tennis is 90% mental. She has proven it several times as we all know.

My top 3 are :

1/ Serena
2/ Seles
3/ Evert

Evert was better known for her mental consistency rather than for her dramatic comebacks. But both Serena and Seles ('91 and '92, but even in 1996 when she won the AO) have been able to win slams staging remarkable comebacks several times. I'd give the edge to Serena for her MPs saved.

I pick those 3 in a different order.

Evert - scared people by doing "nothing"; the Ice Maiden. :angel:
Serena - scared people by doing "something"; total confidence no matter the score. :cool:
Seles - pre-stabbing, other than the gruntless Wimbledon she was a smiling assassin on-court. ;)

Renalicious
Feb 17th, 2010, 12:25 AM
I'd say the top Goats are Serena, Seles and Evert, yes. Graf too but maybe not as tough as the first three.

Out of the current players (bar Serena), Henin, Wozniacki Sharapova and Wickmayer are all tough. Venus I wouldn't say anymore - known for her chokes more than her mental prowess now. :tape: It's such a shame, she really did used to be mentally tough - saving 8MP against Capriati in Miami.

Oh, and Morita. :worship:

Serenita
Feb 17th, 2010, 01:18 AM
Serena- Seles-Graf.

Shawn
Feb 17th, 2010, 01:21 AM
Serena Steffi and Monica Seles!!!!

OsloErik
Feb 17th, 2010, 03:27 AM
1. Evert
2. Seles (v 1.0)
3. Serena
4. Graf

Evert had to come up with passing shots using racquets not designed for baseliners against a tour full of elite volleyers, and she did it without fail or discouragement, and in clutch situations. I can't think of a single player today who has faced comparable situations so consistently and come out on top as often.