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Scott Storm
Sep 23rd, 2002, 08:52 PM
I was wondering what the members of this site thought about recreational drugs like, Cannabis, Xtc, Speed, Cocaine?

If you do not want to publicise your opinion then please vote in the poll!

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 23rd, 2002, 08:57 PM
Fine, as long as it doesn't affect me or get in the way of my life, ppl can do what they want

Dahveed
Sep 23rd, 2002, 08:58 PM
I've tried cannabis (well i think it was :o) i was very drunk, that's my excuse cos i don't plan to do it again :p

King Satan
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:01 PM
I'm not gonna try to tell people how to live their lives, but you should really think hard before you go around doing drugs. Their really isn't a recreational drug, cos one minute you could be having fun and the next minute your a fuckin' junky.

irma
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:04 PM
people should do what they want but not for me
I don't need to stuf feel myself better, I rather be very depressed and sad and know that's me then that I feel happy and know it's because of stuf. it's the same reason why I don't take anti-depression or anti-fear pills while docters have said in the past that it might help me to feel better but a fake feeling is no feeling in my opinion :o

same reason why I don't use alcohol!

Scotso
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:04 PM
There's no option for me, I haven't done them, I haven't considered doing it, but I don't detest it. I choose not to but if other people want to, that's for them to decide.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:12 PM
I've had weed and hash.

Hash I only did once, and that was when I was 15.

I still smoke weed occasionally (maybe once a month) with freinds. It is never planned, I just do it when i feel like it. Some freinds of mine do it ever week, and I don't partake. So it is not a matter of peer pressure for me.

I honestly feel that people who drink heavily, then refer to pot smokers in crude terms are hypocrits.

One poison is no better than the other.

Mazza
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:30 PM
I've done Weed and Rocky a few times.

I guess I gave in to trying it as all the people I hang around with do it all the time so it's like I was bound to try it out.

Luna_Angel_84
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:32 PM
Never tried them cos I've never been offered them! :p

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:34 PM
The first time I smoked weed or did hash, I was 15. The two girls i had taken to hanging out with did it a lot and though they never pushed me to do it, they made me curious.

So that is where it all started.

I have a freind now who wants me to do shrooms with her, but I won't go beyond the two i mentioned. Never have, never plan on it.

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:42 PM
Again, the Lord has commanded us not to...

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:45 PM
No, the lord has commended YOU not to.

I respect your interpretation, please respect mine :)

Jetta
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:47 PM
Not even gonna try it.

Dahveed
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:47 PM
God is not really fun! Can't swear, can't drink, can't smoke, can't have sex before marriage, can't..

vw43
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:49 PM
I tried several drugs in my younger days but now only partake in the fine, all natural substance that God put on this earth...weed..:angel:

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:51 PM
No, the Lord, in His infinite wisdom that is shown partially throught the truth, the Bible, has commanded us ALL in 1 Corthians 6:19-20, which states, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's."

per4ever
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:51 PM
everyone can do whatever they want...I'm not even thinking about it :)

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:52 PM
God is fun...There's a lot of don'ts now, but these things are only temporary...You must think in terms of eternity...And believe me, He has great things in store for us in heaven!

MLF
Sep 23rd, 2002, 09:53 PM
I haven't taken any drugs for a few years now.

I've smoked some weed and have dabbled with 'e' and speed in my time but really have moved on from that whole scene.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
No, the Lord, in His infinite wisdom that is shown partially throught the truth, the Bible, has commanded us ALL in 1 Corthians 6:19-20, which states, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's."

Once again, I have respected your views and am not telling you that you are "wrong".

I would appreciate that in return.

You read the above as the "truth", and take to to mean not to put certain substances in your body.

I don't read it as the truth, and I don't read it to mean that one should not do any particular activity.

There is no right or wrong. But it is interesting to learn what others think.

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:11 PM
I respect your views, but I really don't want you do be burning in the depths of hell for not heeding my advice...Please consider that...

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:11 PM
*Not heeding my advice to give your life to Christ...Works like this only follow faith in God...

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
I respect your views, but I really don't want you do be burning in the depths of hell for not heeding my advice...Please consider that...

This right here is what is wrong with the world today. "You don't think like me, thus you are wrong".

Ignorant.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:15 PM
Let me turn the tables on you -

I would never tell a religious person - If you don't heed my advice, then that is what you get when you die and realize there is nothing but a pit of nothingness, and that you've spent your life full of ideals and saving yourself for something that doesn't exist.

But I respect you don't feel that way. I accept that there is no way of knowing wether or not how I feel is "true".

Why can't you give me the same?

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:16 PM
What I said is not what is wrong with the world today...It's when people act in violence when people don't agree that there's something wrong...You are being ignorant by not seeing the truth in what God has to say...I only wish people would stop thinking of God and all His people and Bible as a bunch of boring things that try to press upon others their views...We are trying to save you and all you have is mean words...

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:18 PM
Because I know from the Bible and what truth has become of it that I am not living my life for nothing! God is real and all He has said and will say will happen and has happened!

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:18 PM
My "ignorant" post may have been harsh, but I do feel that the "we are right, you are wrong" attitude is the root of all evils in this world - in some form or another.

I reversed the situation for oyu in the post after that...

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
Because I know from the Bible and what truth has become of it that I am not living my life for nothing! God is real and all He has said and will say will happen and has happened!

I don't question your way of life.

But you question others who don't think the same as you.

Why?

Because a book says so? Can't you accept that not everyone read it the same way that you do?

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:23 PM
Because we, as born-again Christians, are called by Jesus and His word to witness to all those who are ignorant and do not have a relationship with Him! And no, I can't accept that people read it different ways! It's so clear in its meaning that someone must twist it to the way they want it to be to not be true! It's stood the test of time as truth--everything has happened that has been prophesied in it and more of such prophecies will come true as well!d

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:24 PM
Excuse me, I meant ignorant to the word...

GameSetMatch
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:26 PM
ktwtennis,

You can't make Rebecca think something if she's already thought of it. You can tell from her posts she's very thoughtful and considerate and even though I pretty much agree with you, I don't want to shove beliefs on anyone, just tell what I think and say that I tried. It's not up to me to force you to believe anything. I personally think that the root of "evil" in this world is not "who's right, who's wrong" but man doing what he wants and claiming that there's not right or wrong. If you would like to know more about it Rebecca just say so, if not then that's alright too. Just don't let drugs get in the way of your posts, I'd miss reading them!

Me :)

ktwtennis
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:28 PM
Thank you for your support and exhortation GameSetMatch...I guess I tried...I agree with what you said!

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:43 PM
personally think that the root of "evil" in this world is not "who's right, who's wrong" but man doing what he wants and claiming that there's not right or wrong.

Interesting, let me think about this :)

The truth is that I am not set in my ways. I think that I am very open minded about these topics.

The fact that I would even give a second of my time to someone who has informed me that I am ignorant and going to hell :rolleyes: As ktwtennis just has, should show that.

I just can't respect people who don't respect that others have a different opinion. I can have a priest or whoever it is in a given religion tell me how I should be reading a certain quote and what that means - but I don't see it that way. I feel that the written word is there for us to interpret as we please.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 23rd, 2002, 10:47 PM
I also think that it is worth noting that the most time that passes, the more science "proves" certain things in the bible wrong.

Copernicus and Galileo among scores of others were persecuted for deviating from popular belief at the time - and in the end, who was "right"?

As for using the bible as a moral guide, I understand that. I just dont' understand how something so scientifically incorrect (the earth is not 6000 years old, IMO) can be taken literally.

But to each his own.

I certaintly don't think anyone is going to "rot" anywhere for thinking differently then myself.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 23rd, 2002, 11:02 PM
eek!

Why can't everyone respect everyones opinions? No-one is right or wrong.

Jetta
Sep 23rd, 2002, 11:04 PM
yeah just give it a break already, everytime something about the bible comes up, yall just start arguing. Just respect each others opinion, and get it over with.

CC
Sep 23rd, 2002, 11:07 PM
Never tried any of 'em, primarily because I don't like to lose control of myself, and because I would prefer that most of my highs come naturally. :cool:

Scotso
Sep 23rd, 2002, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
No, the Lord, in His infinite wisdom that is shown partially throught the truth, the Bible, has commanded us ALL in 1 Corthians 6:19-20, which states, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's."


*AHEM*

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 is talking about how people shouldn't have sex with prostitutes, not about drugs. Perhaps if you would read this book that you profess so loudly, you would 1) not be so ignorant, and 2) know how to spell the books of the bible.

Moron.

ktwtennis
Sep 24th, 2002, 12:06 AM
Your attacks don't deter my spirit...I am just trying to show you the way...I'm trying to be the witness I've been called to be...And First Corinthians was referring to sexual immortality, but do you really all God wants us to do is worry about not entering into prostitution, etc.? The point is our body is God's and we are not to harm it, period. Do drugs harm it? YES! There IS right and wrong, and I don't care what you guys think, JESUS IS THE WAY TO SALVATION AND THE WORD IS TRUTH, DESPITE YOUR CLAIMS THE BIBLE HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG, WHEN IN FACT, THE BIBLE HAS PROVED SCIENCE WRONG. For example(one more than you have), the first and second law of thermodynamics states that all things decline from their current state. This law is an accepted law on BOTH sides of evolution/creation. If this is true, how could things possibly evolved? And the chance that we all developed to this complexity with this law in place is impossible!(or near impossible if you look at the numbers)...SO, I encourage you to check your hearts...

ktwtennis
Sep 24th, 2002, 12:17 AM
Why would you think that? It takes someone sane to understand all of that...

Scotso
Sep 24th, 2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
Your attacks don't deter my spirit...I am just trying to show you the way...I'm trying to be the witness I've been called to be...And First Corinthians was referring to sexual immortality, but do you really all God wants us to do is worry about not entering into prostitution, etc.? The point is our body is God's and we are not to harm it, period. Do drugs harm it? YES! There IS right and wrong, and I don't care what you guys think, JESUS IS THE WAY TO SALVATION AND THE WORD IS TRUTH

You take the words of the Bible and expand on them... only messengers of God can do that... so you think you're some kind of prophet? The Bible warns about people like you.

2 Peter 2:1-3, "Sometimes false prophets spoke to the people of Israel. False teachers will also sneak in and speak harmful lies to you. But these teachers don't really belong to the Master who paid a great price for them, and they will quickly destroy themselves. Many people will follow their evil ways and cause others to tell lies about the true way. They will be greedy and cheat you with smooth talk."

Greedy? That sounds like you. Stop being self-righteous.

Judge not, lest ye be judged. You're not behaving in a very Christian manner.

Scotso
Sep 24th, 2002, 12:28 AM
And the law of thermodynamics talks about the transfer of energy, what you stated is just bullshit. Things don't decline in energybecase "energy can neither be created nor destroyed."

ktwtennis
Sep 24th, 2002, 12:38 AM
I am not judging by any means! I just want these people to know the truth! And I am not expanding on the word of God and am by no means a false prophet! I am NOT twisting the word of God! If you want more references just like this on in meaning, here they are:
2 Corinthians 6:16--"And what agree ment has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.'"
Romans 14:7--"For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself."

THERE! Those do not have sexual immortality mentioned before them! So now you can see that these scriptures are related! Have you heard of cross-references in the margins?

ktwtennis
Sep 24th, 2002, 12:43 AM
Yes, I read in a creation book about the law of thermodynamics. Perhaps I have stated them wrong, but I am sure in their ultimate meaning---It is a counter-example to the conservation theory of energy and things DO deteriorate! Give me one example of a material item that turns out better than what it was when it was new!

Scotso
Sep 24th, 2002, 12:49 AM
The first law IS the law about the conservation of energy. You need to get your facts straight before you start preaching.

And the fact you got your information on science from a Creationist book doesn't surprise me in the least.

Lastly, where in those statements does it talk about drugs? By manipulating the word of God you are attempting to take his place. Do you think your judgment is better?

ktwtennis
Sep 24th, 2002, 12:52 AM
Let me ask you this: Is using drugs and things that hurt your body honoring the temple of God?

Scotso
Sep 24th, 2002, 01:02 AM
Do you drink caffeine? Do you eat foods with sugar? Do you use anything like that? They don't help your body.

Until you fully understand the words that you intend to preach I have nothing to learn from you.

I now have enough information to know that you're a False Prophet. As such I have nothing further to say to you.

ktwtennis
Sep 24th, 2002, 01:08 AM
A prophet preaches the future...I am not telling you what the future holds! I don't know what else to tell you...You twist my words when I know what I talk about...I think that if you are a true, born-again Christian, we should respect each other as brothers in Christ and try to gain more souls to Christ as we have been called to do and guard against any unwholsome acts in our own lives, including drugs, alcohol, etc. If you aren't a brother in Christ, I hope you all one day find Christ as your personal Savior and that He opens your heart to the word of God and He helps you understand Him more...

the cat
Sep 24th, 2002, 01:41 AM
Becca, I won't preach to you. You've had alot of that tonight from Kiwi. But I hope you don't get swallowed up in the wrong things. I know you say you never plan to do hard drugs. But isn't that what most people say?

You make a good point about the dangers of alcohol. But alcohol is legal. Up to a limit anyway.

This may sound like a stupid question, Becca. But why does your friend do Mushrooms?

Becca, I hope you don't get more involved with drugs as time goes by. Even with "just" Marijuana. That can lead to more dangerous drugs. Well I said I wouldn't preach to you, and I won't. Good luck!

P.S. - And you said you smoke Marijuana about once a month with friends. They do it. And so do you. Isn't that a mild form of peer pressure? And since you only partake in Marijuana use about once a month, why bother at all? If these friends of yours are really friends, they should understand if a friend doesn't want to do drugs. Even "just" Mariajuana.

P.P.S. - To me Becca, you seem like you are very bright and have good values! :D So let's say in a couple of years you might have a boyfriend who doesn't do drugs. Are you going to be able to stop then? I hope you would. And what if you're planning to start a family someday. Would you be able to say goodbye to Marijuana then? I would hope so. But maybe it won't be that easy. Becca, I hope you are always healthy and happy and keep your wits about you! :kiss:

Kiwi_Boy
Sep 24th, 2002, 02:15 AM
quite simply all drugs(that arnt used for MEDICINE)are bad!:fiery:
they ruin too many people's (esp young people's) lives :fiery:

DutchieGirl
Sep 24th, 2002, 03:09 AM
well, there's no thing on the poll for me to tick! I would never take drugs, but I can't say I "detest" them, because if other people want to take them, I don't have a problem. It's up to them what they do!

Sam L
Sep 24th, 2002, 03:18 AM
Well a lot of medicinal drugs can be as powerful as recreational drugs. I don't know if any of you had Panadeine Forte but it's one powerful drug :eek: and has a fair bit of morphine in it. It certainly knocked me out, LOL.

Anyway, I've tried recreational drugs, but not anymore and will never again. I wouldn't say I detest drugs (like I said some of them can help you, like marijuana too) but I detest illegal activity that is dealing in drug especially pushing to vulnerable youths etc.. I think it's best for everyone to stay away from them all together, that's my opinion.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 24th, 2002, 03:38 AM
Becca, I won't preach to you. You've had alot of that tonight from Kiwi. But I hope you don't get swallowed up in the wrong things. I know you say you never plan to do hard drugs. But isn't that what most people say?

Yes it is what most people say. And MOST of the time they stick to their word. I've never actually ne a statistical study on this before, but it is easy to go to a rehab center and find "most of these people started out using marijuana, thus marijuana is the root of all drug problems". What about the scores of people who use it recreationally that they don't know about, who never make it to these centers? Consider this before assuming that one is at risk.


You have a good point about the dangers of alcohol. But alcohol is legal. Up to a limit anyway.

Alcohol is legal, and causes more problems. Families falling apart, spousal abuse, abuse to oneself, traffic accidents, problems even trickle over to the health care field. And by the way, marijuana isn't illegal everywhere, and there is a reason for that.


This may sound like a stupid question, Becca. But why does your friend do Mushrooms?

No such thing as a stupid question...

I don't know why she doesn't them. She does E as well. I'm not usually around her when she does either. But she knows I'm not interested, I've made that clear. We leave it at that. As long as she isn't hurting herself, I will respect what she does (though I'm REALLY not keen on the use of E).


Becca, I hope you don't get more involved with drugs as time goes by. Even with "just" Marijuana. That can lead to more dangerous drugs. Well I said I wouldn't preach to you, and I won't. Good luck!

Like I said above, the average marijuana user does not start snorting coke. Those are extreme cases.
And it won't be me. Thanks for the concern anyhow.



P.S. - And you said you smoke Marijuana about once a month with friends. They do it. And so do you. Isn't that a mild form of peer pressure? And since you only partake in Marijuana use about once a month, why bother at all? If these friends of yours are really friends, they should understand if a friend doesn't want to do drugs. Even "just" Mariajuana.

It isn't a mild form of peer pressure. I do it when I feel like it, because occasionally I enjoy it. I do it maybe 1 in 5 times it is offered to me. There are no funny looks when people dont want to do it (likely cause the guys are thinking "more for us" ;) ). They are indeed freinds, who understand that i DO want to do it occasionally. If tomorrow i said "never again" they wouldn't mention it to me again. They are good guys, don't knock them ;)


P.P.S. - To me Becca, you seem like you are very bright and have good values! :D So let's say in a couple of years you might have a boyfriend who doesn't do drugs. Are you going to be able to stop then? I hope you would. And what if you're planning to start a family someday. Would you be able to say goodbye to Marijuana then? I would hope so. But maybe it won't be that easy. Becca, I hope you are always healthy and happy and keep your wits about you! :kiss:


THanks for the first part...my vaules are good ;) But you do realize that you just suggested to a feminist that she might be better off if she had a boyfreind? :D lol

I'm sure in 5 years time I won't even do it. I will grow out of it. Just like most college students eventually grow out of drinking every weekend.

I would hope that I find a boyfreind who respects me as I am, and doesn't preach at me on how to live my life.

Seeing as Marijuana is not addictive, I don't think that it will be a problem.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 24th, 2002, 03:40 AM
It is worth noting that I've posted both high, and drunk on here.

And I bet the only people who could tell the slightest difference were those I was talking to on MSN at the time.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 24th, 2002, 03:43 AM
ktwtennis - I have taken a mere 3 physics courses in my time, and I can assure you that unless you know what the laws of thermodynamics actually are, then they are of no use to you in trying to "prove" the bible.

disposablehero
Sep 24th, 2002, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by Rebecca
I've had weed and hash.

Hash I only did once, and that was when I was 15.

I still smoke weed occasionally (maybe once a month) with freinds. It is never planned, I just do it when i feel like it. Some freinds of mine do it ever week, and I don't partake. So it is not a matter of peer pressure for me.

I honestly feel that people who drink heavily, then refer to pot smokers in crude terms are hypocrits.

One poison is no better than the other.

Rebecca, my image of you as a virginal saint is shot! As a heavy drinker, I want you to know that I am disgusted by your stoner antics!

Did I mention that I smoke weed 2-3 times a month?

Crazy Canuck
Sep 24th, 2002, 04:20 AM
Well I don't consider marijuana to be a bad thing, I feel that it should be legal.

Either than that, the image is till intact.

:cough:

ys
Sep 24th, 2002, 04:24 AM
Never tried marijuana ( can you believe it?). Was once fed a pill of ecstasy, had no effect on me whatsoever.. But I drink some red wine every day..

Dawn Marie
Sep 24th, 2002, 04:30 AM
I've tried Weed and Alcohol, and that is all I will ever try. Once in a great I'll get my drink on, but I NEVER drive. I also won't get in a car with a person who has been drinking heavily. Also I don't like weed anymore. in fact it has been 4 years since I smoked a joint. (infact I was watching about 3 South park tapes at the time) Anyway I just don't like being high. It is alot more fun to be linving without weed.

I have a problem with people who do HARD Drugs. They have the potential to affect me and I don't want people who do drugs around me. I don't have time for that shit.

If you hang around people who take hard drugs and have no problem with it, then don't get mad when you find things stolen, or get late night knocks on your door. I refuse to be friends with a person who takes cocaine or crack, or Ecstasy. been there done that, and It came to a point, where I was so close to bashing that person upside the head. (literally speaking) And there I was could have been in jail with no life while the druggie was walking free.

Also, I find people who preach their religion very troublesome. I would rather they live it then speak quotes from the Bible. Don't tell me about it, SHOW me about it. First RESPECT my opinions, and if you can't do that, then I won't respect what you have to say.

ys
Sep 24th, 2002, 04:35 AM
Also, I find people who preach their religion very troublesome.

Of course! Some preach Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Others preach certain Sisters. It's just a family business anyway. Troublesome!

Crazy Canuck
Sep 24th, 2002, 04:38 AM
Also, I find people who preach their religion very troublesome. I would rather they live it then speak quotes from the Bible. Don't tell me about it, SHOW me about it. First RESPECT my opinions, and if you can't do that, then I won't respect what you have to say.

Nicely said Dawn :o


and lol @ ys :p

Richie77
Sep 24th, 2002, 04:48 AM
I've never tried drugs, and I doubt I ever will.
However, I do think marijuana should be legalized in the U.S. and everywhere else it's not legal, mainly because of its medicinal purposes, plus I don't think it's as harmful as other drugs.

gentenaire
Sep 24th, 2002, 06:14 AM
I've never tried drugs, I do drink alcohol every now and then.

I agree that weed is no worse than alcohol. I've never tried it because I've never been offered (the only time I've met someone selling it was in Lisbon) and because as a non-smoker I don't see why I should start smoking something else. I just don't like smoke, can't stand the smell.

XTC and those other pills are nasty though, IMO! Those are dangerous!

King Satan
Sep 24th, 2002, 06:33 AM
I honestly don't think mary jane is such a bad gal. Sometimes it's fun to hang out with the fellas and smoke a joint. People act like it's so fuckin' evil, but all your doing is having some laughs chillin' out and having fun, their's nothing wrong with that.

And also, I don't think mary jane leads to harder drugs, in my opinion alcohol leads to harder drugs, and weed in my opinion is the next step. Some people start with weed, but most have had a drink before that.

And about the whole religion thing, what if I don't want your book to determine wether my life is good or bad, what if I want to live by my own rules, how in the hell do you think your telling the truth? You think because some guy wrote some stuff in a book, that' the truth?

Scott Storm
Sep 24th, 2002, 06:34 AM
I personally regularly smoke hash and weed when I can get it, I have tried xtc once (4yrs ago) and it was excellent but I vowed never to use it again and I have also tried Cocaine but I don't think I would ever buy it. I have refused shrooms as I hate all mushrooms but I would be open trying lsd.

irma
Sep 24th, 2002, 08:36 AM
didn't jesus make wine of water?
so he was not against alcohol!

see I am but then I am probarly a sheep who lost the way;)

ktwtennis
Sep 24th, 2002, 10:43 AM
Not because a guy wrote stuff in a book, but because the things within the book HAVE been proven, despite the others' claims that they haven't with no evidence. Also, the fact that they represent what Jesus, the SAVIOR OF THIS WORLD, preached, I put my full faith in it. FAITH. That's the key. Those willing to have faith in God have eternal life. I'm trying to make you understand and save your own life. But if you don't want to take it or even listen to me, fine....

SM
Sep 24th, 2002, 10:58 AM
Drugs are bad...M-KAY...people who do drugs(abusively)..are bad...M-KAY

;)

anyway ive never had anyting intentionally and am never going to, but at the same time if some people wanna do it thats their choice and let them...i certainly wont hold anything against them unless they use it beyon 'recreational' level.

as for the times ive had some..once i had mull cake and didnt know it was in there , lol, another time i had a join bu i was extremely intoxicated so i had diminished capacity there :angel:

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 24th, 2002, 11:05 AM
I don't drink, smoke, do drugs but then that's because i'm into fitness and looking after my body :)

I don't think it's right to preach to anyone about any of the above, people do what they want, only when it starts affecting other people can we voice our real concerns.

Obviously if i found out my 12 year old daughter was into any of the above, i'd be very concerned, but then any worthwhile parent would be.

When the person is drink/driving (how my g/f was killed) or affecting other peoples lives with the violence that can come from these things (Drink/Drugs) is there an issue

The Crow
Sep 24th, 2002, 11:08 AM
If you consider alcohol as recreational drugs, ye[. Otherwise no. Same as Tine, never been offered...

Can't believe this thread turned into a religious debate :eek: ;)

the cat
Sep 24th, 2002, 11:46 AM
I find it amazing that so many people think Marijuana is harmless. It's been proven to kill brain cells and cause car accidents because the driver who was smoking pot lost some of his or her hand eye coordination, the way a drunk would, and causes a car accident.

I've seen infommericials on T.V. for many years now pointing out the problems of Marijuana use. In fact, there was an infomercial on the other night in the New York area about a a young girl was shot by her drug dealer! :sad: So the dangerous aren't only with the drug. The dangers can be cause by the people who want money from you for your drugs.

Becca, I'm glad you have good friends who won't bug you when you say no more to smoking weed. But Dawn Marie makes a pertinent point about how your friends can start to use you to borrow money for drugs.

Indy, you said Marijuana isn't as harmful as other drugs. And that's true. But isn't the fact that you think Marijuana is harmful enough to keep you away from it?

And a couple months ago, New York Mets Pitcher Mark Corey had a seizure after smoking Marijuana with teammate Tony Tarasco and ended up in the Hospital. It was said he smoked some bad Weed, and that caused the seizure, which cause him to fall and hit his head on the ground causing a concussion.

Maybe Marijuana isn't as harmless as some people think.

TheGuy, I hope you're not so infatuated with the Hendrix lifestyle that you make the same mistakes where drugs are concerned. And good luck with your music career!

:D

gentenaire
Sep 24th, 2002, 11:55 AM
We're not saying Marijuana is harmless, we're just saying that alcohol can cause just as much harm as Marijuana.

billybizar
Sep 24th, 2002, 12:52 PM
I find it amazing that so many people think Marijuana is harmless. It's been proven to kill brain cells and cause car accidents because the driver who was smoking pot lost some of his or her hand eye coordination, the way a drunk would, and causes a car accident





:rolleyes:
Woeee I'm shivering!

Well, using marjuana is certainly less harmful for your hand eye coordination than receiving a blowjob imo ( but then again, the latter doesn't kill that many brain cells :p )

Dr. Peedy
Sep 24th, 2002, 01:36 PM
I don't post very often on these boards, but this topic has broached a subject that I feel rather strongly about. For the record, I was brought up as a Christian, but the process of growing up has imbued me with a healthy sense of cynicism and I can now be tactfully described as a 'sheep' who has gone 'astray' by conscious choice. I have smoked weed in the past, but quit completely over 18 months ago and have not had any since. I emphasize that I quit for health and financial reasons, not due to some 'moral awakening'!

Rebecca: "...I do feel that the "we are right, you are wrong" attitude is the root of all evils in this world..."

I couldn't agree more with you, Rebecca. Your statement and the following passage describe my position very well.

"Generally the state of mind of a believer in a revelation is the awful arrogance of saying 'I know, and those who do not agree with my belief are wrong.' In no other field is such arrogance so widespread, in no other field do people feel so utterly certain of their 'knowledge'. It is to me quite disgusting that anybody should feel so superior, so selected and chosen against all the many who differ in their beliefs or unbeliefs. This would be bad enough, but so many believers do their best to propagate their faith, at the very least to their children but often also to others (and historically there are of course plenty of examples of doing this by force or ruthless brutality). The fact that stares one in the face is that people of the greatest sincerity and of all levels of intelligence differ and have always differed in their religious beliefs. Since at most one faith can be true, it follows that human beings are extremely liable to believe firmly and honestly in something untrue in the field of revealed religion. One would have expected this obvious fact to lead to some humility, to some thought that however deep one's faith, one may conceivably be mistaken. Nothing is further from the believer, any believer, than this elementary humility. All in his power (which nowadays in a developed country tends to be confined to his children) must have his faith rammed down their throats. In many cases children are indoctrinated with the disgraceful thought that they belong to the one group with superior knowledge who alone have a private wire to the office of the Almighty, all others being less fortunate than they themselves." -- H. Bondi, in 'Religion is a good thing', Lying Truths (eds. R. Duncan and M. Weston-Smith; Pergamon 1979).

ktwtennis, you 'know' you are correct, you 'know' that that the Bible is the Word of God. You 'know' you are assured salvation and eternal life through your faith, whereas those who do not share your beliefs will be condemned to suffer in hell for all eternity. However, it would not be hard for one to locate an equally devout and convicted follower of another religion/faith, and of course, this person would readily tell you with as much sincerity that he or she 'knows' that you are wrong! One creed's condemned heretic is another creed's martyr.

Of course, you have 'proof', but this other person could (and would) also justify his or her 'knowing' you are wrong by offering 'proof' which, to an impartial outsider, appears to be no less (or more) credible than yours. Or, you could say you just 'know', because you have faith. Then again, what if your opponent claimed that his/her faith in his/her beliefs is stronger than yours? Are there any clear reasons why should one take your word over his/hers (or his/hers over yours for that matter)?

I conclude this section of my post with the following quote.

"Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it canít be taken on its own merits." --Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith", 1992.


Now to the original subject of the thread, namely the (ab)use of 'illicit' drugs. For brevity, I won't consider herein what are commonly described as the 'hard drugs' and focus on marijuana, which is arguably the most commonly used illicit drug and quite possibly the most controversial in the contexts of the soft vs. hard debate, potential medicinal properties, and approaches taken towards its legalization/decriminalization in certain societies. Furthermore, being of plant origin, believers in a Creator must accept that it was divinely created.

The following four quotes are yours.

ktwtennis: Again, the Lord has commanded us not to...

ktwtennis: No, the Lord, in His infinite wisdom that is shown partially throught the truth, the Bible, has commanded us ALL in 1 Corthians 6:19-20, which states, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's."

ktwtennis: And no, I can't accept that people read it different ways! It's so clear in its meaning that someone must twist it to the way they want it to be to not be true!

ktwtennis: Let me ask you this: Is using drugs and things that hurt your body honoring the temple of God?

You claim that (despite its extremely general tone) the 1 Corinthians verse unequivocally and expressly forbids drug usage and that any other interpretation to the contrary is unacceptable. How can your belief be reconciled with the following verse?

"Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth....To you it will be for meat." ... And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. -- Genesis 1:29-31

Of course, with your strong faith, and having implied earlier that the Bible is the divinely-inspired Word of God which is to be obeyed unconditionally, will you now attempt to introduce your very own interpretation of the Scriptures by qualifying the word 'every'? You cannot have it both ways. If you can make your own interpretation of the Scriptures, you must then show the courtesy of permitting others to do the same.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." -- Galileo Galilei

Furthermore, consider the Genesis verse in the context of the following two verses.

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall ... speak lies in hypocrisy ... commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (Paul, in 1 Timothy 4:1-3)

"Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him.... That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man." -- Jesus, in Mark 7:18-20

About hurting oneself and 'honouring the temple of God'. Yes, one can certainly argue that even though God created the plant, he did not intend for us to smoke it (but how would one know for sure? Personal interpretation of the Scriptures? Faith?). Even I will agree that smoking weed is not the best thing a person can do with his/her time and money BUT in the context of hurting oneself (and yet not hurting others!) it's basically tantamount to rolling around naked in poison ivy. You could attempt to argue that God did not create poison ivy for that purpose, and (as is the case with smoking weed) there are certainly more profitable alternative activities one could occupy oneself with, but (in my humble opinion) attempting to make a MORAL issue out of it is otiose.

Come to think about it, just indulge me while I consider morality and 'self harm' together. I suspect rolling naked in poison ivy would be a rather unpleasant experience, but I (like some notable clerics of old who wore hair shirts next to their skin underneath their robes) could claim that the discomfort and suffering would make me 'strengthen my faith and grow closer to the Lord'. Would it cease to become a moral issue then? I suspect fasting (especially a celebrated example lasting 40 days and 40 nights) is not the most healthy thing you could do to your body, but instead of being denounced as 'self-harm' it is lauded in the same 'getting closer to God' context.

Weed is a mind-altering psychotropic substance! It is different! But..... is it really? If I am not mistaken, using such substances to achieve a 'trance-like' state is a common practice in rituals from many religions. Does the use of psychotropic substances cease to become a moral issue then? Of course, you would insist that you 'know' from your 'faith' that such practitioners of other religions are 'ignorant' and doomed to hell anyway, but then again, like I argued before, THEY could argue based on THEIR 'faith' that they 'know' that you are wrong! Your word or theirs?

I conclude with the following quote:

"It is ironical that although most religions extol the virtues of love, peace and humility, it is all too often hatred, war and arrogance that characterize the history of the world's great religious organizations. ... the outbreaks of spctacular violence and brutality in the name of God which still plague society today are not the only manifestations of the antisocial face of religion. ... Even within their own ranks, religious organizations often sanction prejudice, whether against women, racial minorities, homosexuals or whoever their leaders decree to be inferior." --Paul Davies, 'God and the New Physics' (Penguin, 1983).

Is it really such a blessing to be close-minded and intolerant?

gentenaire
Sep 24th, 2002, 01:53 PM
Wow, what a post dw! It's a shame you don't post more often.

Dr. Peedy
Sep 24th, 2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Tine
Wow, what a post dw! It's a shame you don't post more often.

Thanks, I'm still relatively new to WTAworld. I post more on ATPworld, where all of my posts are in the Lleyki forest chat thread! Those posts are a lot easier to write! LOL

BTW, ktwtennis, I didn't mean to be overly antagonistic in my previous post. You have evidently found much joy and fulfillment in your faith, so good for you, but live and let live. One size does not fit all, and IMHO, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

vw43
Sep 24th, 2002, 02:13 PM
*cough* I was just about to post those same exact quotes, dw ;) Very nicely done :kiss:

The Crow
Sep 24th, 2002, 05:02 PM
I agree with the two ladies before me. dw, you should definitely post more! :D Great post!

Crazy Canuck
Sep 24th, 2002, 06:05 PM
Very nice dw :) I can't understand one might not be able to come up with 50 posts a day of that quality, so I can understand not posting more ;)

NOt that talk in the Lleyki forest isn't deep ;)

Dr. Peedy
Sep 24th, 2002, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Rebecca
NOt that talk in the Lleyki forest isn't deep ;)

Oh certainly, today we'll be discussing free will and determinism. :p :p Hehe ;) I think the Lleyki forest suits me down to a 't', I just get err... verbose once in a blue moon! :o

AmErIcAn
Sep 24th, 2002, 06:26 PM
I have considered trying drugs when I first started dating my babys father he was a user and tried to get me to do that shit to, but i found out i was pregnant and i didnt want to risk harming my child and since then iv'e steered completly clear.
The guy is clean now too :D

the cat
Sep 24th, 2002, 06:34 PM
Amazing and thoughtful post, DW! :D

Well done, AmerIcAn! :) That's using your head! :bounce:

Crazy Canuck
Sep 24th, 2002, 06:39 PM
I find it amazing that so many people think Marijuana is harmless. It's been proven to kill brain cells and cause car accidents because the driver who was smoking pot lost some of his or her hand eye coordination, the way a drunk would, and causes a car accident.

Standing on the side of the road, and accidentally inhaling some fumes from a passing car, kills brain cells. Spraying an aerosol, then accidently walking through and inhaling it, kills brain cells. Walking around a big city, beathing the air - kills brain cells.

Of course it can cause car accidents. But that isn't the rule. Personally I know a lot of people who have been involved in a drunk driving accident in one form or another - I dont know anyone who has had the same problem after using marijuana. Does it happen? Yes. But please stop making it sound like the norm, when it isn't.

The effects of being high on marijuana, and the loss of motor skills due to drinking, are not the same. I don't feel that either should be driving, but to say they are the same is incorrect. From someone who has had both, and who has learned about it from a scientific point of view, I have a vague idea of what I speak.


I've seen infommericials on T.V. for many years now pointing out the problems of Marijuana use. In fact, there was an infomercial on the other night in the New York area about a a young girl was shot by her drug dealer! So the dangerous aren't only with the drug. The dangers can be cause by the people who want money from you for your drugs.

You just admitted that you get your information from infomercials, and want me to take you seriously? The girl who was shot by her drug dealer- do you know for a fact that soley had to do with her use of marijuana? If not, it is a usless example. Even if that is the case, once again you are pointing to the extremes. SOme people get run over when they try to cross the road, does that mean none of us should do it? ;)

Becca, I'm glad you have good friends who won't bug you when you say no more to smoking weed. But Dawn Marie makes a pertinent point about how your friends can start to use you to borrow money for drugs.

Please stop making lame points about my freinds. I know who my freinds are, I know they get their stuff from a reliable source, and they aren't going to start stealing my money. I find it a little annoying you think I'm stupid enough to hang out with people like that.

Dawn was talking about hardcore drug users.

Scott Storm
Sep 24th, 2002, 09:36 PM
Big round of applause for Rebecca!

I was forming the same thoughts and then I read your post.

ktwtennis
Sep 24th, 2002, 11:06 PM
Thank you for your respectful post, but I was just trying to see that all were offered the chance to turn their lives over to God...Obviously, I am of the minority, and persecuted heavily, which is no surprise since it is written in the Bible that those who preach will be persecuted and the word will offend those who don't know it...But it also says that I should rejoice in my persecution, which I do, because I know God will one day be revealed to you all, whether sooner or later, I do not know, but for your sake, I hope sooner...

Crazy Canuck
Sep 24th, 2002, 11:12 PM
You're STILL doing it :rolleyes:

Hurley
Sep 24th, 2002, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
No, the Lord, in His infinite wisdom that is shown partially throught the truth, the Bible, has commanded us ALL in 1 Corthians 6:19-20, which states, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's."

One could say that sitting on your ass for hours on end debating the merits of the Testaments on a computer is not treating your body like a temple.

Martian Mel
Sep 25th, 2002, 12:12 AM
I've tried weed but i didn't liked it so much so i stopped!Smoking and some alcohol in the weekend is fine by me! ;-)

Rebecca!I'm 100% behind what you're saying!

TeNnIsFaN
Sep 25th, 2002, 01:00 AM
I've tried weed only twice, and I have drank a little bit, but nothing serious. The only time I've smoked weed, I didnt even get high, I only had a couple hits. And the only time I drank was with my best friend and that wasnt even serious because I didn't even get drunk then. IMO I think you should try some stuff, but nothing over the line. And I'm kinda ashamed I've already done this stuff and some people on this board havent because I know basically all of them are older than me, I'm only 14...

LucasArg
Sep 25th, 2002, 01:13 AM
Cannabis is nice, if you don't abuse:p

Richie77
Sep 25th, 2002, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by the cat
Indy, you said Marijuana isn't as harmful as other drugs. And that's true. But isn't the fact that you think Marijuana is harmful enough to keep you away from it?

Actually, the cat, there's a little more to that.
I have scarred vocal cords, a condition that came about when I was 13 due to a very bad cold/respiratory illness. I had an awful coughing spell for about three months, and since that was probably right around the time my voice was changing, it made the area around my vocal cords swell. As a result, my voice became very raspy, and it was very difficult for me to talk for a long time. My vocal cords have gotten better, but it has been a very, very slow process and has left me with a higher-than-normal voice. It has gotten lower over the years, but it has been an incredibly gradual process. And I can't talk very loud either.

Also, four-and-a-half years ago, I got struck with an awful respiratory infection. It took me a good two weeks to recover enough to go back to college classes, even though I wasn't fully better. Then, during the ensuing summer, I kept getting ear infection after ear infection, and eventually found out that I had bad sinuses as well. I still get ear or sinus infections every few months or so, and probably have some hearing loss now, as well. (As a matter of fact, I went to a auto racing track this weekend, sat through a series of races, and didn't have any "ear-ringing" episodes afterwards).

So, in short, I can't smoke ANYTHING. Cigarettes, marijuana, nothing. Not even one puff.
BUT - just because I can't smoke doesn't mean that other people shouldn't have the right to do so. I agree that smoking is a very bad habit, but if someone chooses to do it, then it's their choice.
As for marijuana - no one's ever offered it to me, and no, I'm not sure if I ever would do it. And I don't doubt that marijuana has its dangerous points. But what really gets to me is that we have all of the money and manpower of law enforcement here in the U.S. going to "fight marijuana use," when we have other, more important crimes to worry about (robberies, rapes, murders, TERRORISM?) Legalizing marijuana won't make it any less harmful, but if people use it responsibly (like they should be drinking alcohol responsibly), then why should it be such a huge concern?

Crazy Canuck
Sep 25th, 2002, 03:58 AM
And I'm kinda ashamed I've already done this stuff and some people on this board havent because I know basically all of them are older than me, I'm only 14...


No need to be ashamed, as long as you are safe about things - as it sounds you are.

I first got drunk a t 12, and smoked at 15.

I had what some people would call "bad" influences around me, but in the long run I'm more mature about both issues than i would have been had i been babied till I was 20.

LucasArg
Sep 25th, 2002, 04:01 AM
The first time I smoke a tabaco cigarrette was at 13. Drunk at 15, but I don't drink very much alcohol and marihuana at 20.

Sometimes I think alcohol can do more damage than other drugs cos' it is not illegal and it is socialy accepted.

The important thing is not abusing of any of these "light" stuffs.

:wavey:

Richie77
Sep 25th, 2002, 04:03 AM
DW, that was a maginficent post!

Scotso
Sep 25th, 2002, 04:19 AM
Allan is that you? :)

Wonderful post :)



LOL Hurley ;)

ktwtennis
Sep 25th, 2002, 10:40 AM
I DON'T sit around debating these things for hours...Just look at how many posts I have...Now look at how many you have...now who's lazy?

Crazy Canuck
Sep 25th, 2002, 09:47 PM
Yes, but how many of your posts have been spent telling people how to live their lives vs. how many of Hurleys?

hmm?

Hurley
Sep 25th, 2002, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
I DON'T sit around debating these things for hours...Just look at how many posts I have...Now look at how many you have...now who's lazy?

Good attempt. I've also been on the board seven months longer than you have.

Stop pointing with your fingers, or else your calamity shall come suddenly.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Sep 25th, 2002, 10:03 PM
I'm lazy, only been here 6 weeks and look at my posts :)

Only go to work, to the gym just about every day, all the housework and loads more

Yep, i'm a lazy git

ktwtennis
Sep 26th, 2002, 12:11 AM
Ok, then look at the average posts per day...You still have me beat!

King Satan
Sep 26th, 2002, 04:17 AM
I'm so proud of myself, I can withstand being in a car with 3 guys smoking weed and not even think of doing it myself. I've come a long way since my high school years:)

BTW, the first time I got high I was ten

Mitch01
Sep 26th, 2002, 04:48 AM
No, I don't use recreational drugs, never have, and (I hate the word never, because who knows) almost certainly will not use them in the future. This is because I had a brother who somehow moved into the world of drugs, and he is no longer here. Luckily he is an exception, and most people who say, smoke pot once in a while, won't move onto hard drugs. But having a family member like that, I've seen first-hand the dangers of drug use and it has turned me completely off of it. However, I won't shun people who use, as long as they use responsibly. I have many friends who smoke marijuana, and a few who use ecstacy on occasion, and as long as they dont' go overboard or try to push it on me, I am fine with it.

GameSetMatch
Sep 26th, 2002, 04:54 AM
I guess it's obvious that we can just agree to disagree here. If you wanna go out and try drugs, great. I don't think it's the greatest idea to get hooked, but it's your life. I hope you guys aren't interpreting ktw's and my posts as trying to make you change or anything. As for me, I'm trying to give my opinion on things, and getting pretty much bashed for it. Oh well. It's my choice to post, and yours to not like it.

But it seems to me that most of the people here either don't know how to react when a different viewpoint is presented, or just don't like it, because I'm getting a division here, where some people just build each other up and bash others. It's also a little funny how some people start slinging insults around when disagreed with. GET OVER IT, people! If the only time that you encounter differing viewpoints is on a WTAworld messageboard, God bless you! You say you're not afraid, but some of your posts betray you, IMO. Of course I could be wrong, it's hard to tell on a messageboard with no inflection or emotion.

You have one viewpoint. I have another. Have you noticed I haven't "bashed" or "hated" on anyone? So who exactly is immature?

Me :)

Crazy Canuck
Sep 26th, 2002, 05:55 AM
Pardon me for having a problem keeping nice with an individual who informs me that I am ignorant and going to hell (which I beleive in as much as I do Santa Claus).

Crazy Canuck
Sep 26th, 2002, 05:56 AM
It is one thing to have a different view point.

It is another to be ignorant of the views of others (not to mention the world around you), and tell everyone who doesn't feel exatcly as yourself that they a re "wrong".

I have ZERO respect for such people. They just make me shake my head and wonder "how the hell did THAT happen".

irma
Sep 26th, 2002, 06:33 AM
it's scary to look further then your own opinion because what if it's wrong?
then you have a big problem and will be confused, scary :o ;)

ktwtennis
Sep 26th, 2002, 10:38 AM
I'm not hating your view! I was once an unsaved individual like yourself! But I saw the truth for what it was, not being stubborn and actually looking at both sides of the story. You're just automatically assuming what I believe and other things about a born-again Christian without critically thinking about it...That's why I get offensive...B/c you don't even try and think that perhaps I'm right...I've already looked at your way of life, lived it, and have concluded that salvation in God is much better...

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 2nd, 2002, 03:14 AM
What a funny thread.

For the record, I have used marijuana and LSD in the past. I have had some interesting experiences, had no ill-effects whatsoever, and felt no temptation at all to try anything "harder".

disposablehero
Oct 2nd, 2002, 03:22 AM
I so love being an unsaved individual!

gentenaire
Oct 2nd, 2002, 07:29 AM
So do I, disposable! It'll be fun in hell, all the fun people will be there ;)

Crazy Canuck
Oct 2nd, 2002, 09:51 AM
Come to think of it, few (if any) people that I like will be going to heaven according to some orthodox views.

So maybe I don't want to go there anyhow :o

I don't beleive in heaven nor hell for the record.

nash
Oct 2nd, 2002, 01:50 PM
A controversial religious thread that I missed!!???!!! :confused: :eek: ;)

I personally believe recreational drug use is wrong from a religious, moral, and intellectual perspective.

As for all the comments on Christianity, probably most of you know my feelings. Jesus means everything to me, and I can understand where kwt is coming from. I will say that Christians are called to be humble and loving, but also to speak the truth (as outlined in the Bible). Sometimes many of us miss the mark on compassion and tend to come off as arrogant. But for the most part, it's because we care. If I knew that one of my friends was about to fall down a cliff, wouldn't I warm him? I think that's all kwt is trying to do.

Everyone have a great day (or night, depending on where you are)! :)

-Nash-

Dr. Peedy
Oct 2nd, 2002, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by nash
Sometimes many of us miss the mark on compassion and tend to come off as arrogant. But for the most part, it's because we care. If I knew that one of my friends was about to fall down a cliff, wouldn't I warm him? I think that's all kwt is trying to do.


You don't KNOW that person is about to fall down a cliff. You BELIEVE that person is about to fall down a cliff. There is a difference.

It's really sweet that you and ktw are valiantly trying to redeem our wayward souls, but:

1. You know what they say: 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'.
2. You seem to assume people who do not share your beliefs desperately need you to hold their hand and be their guiding light. I'm personally inclined to find that view somewhat patronizing.

What are you representing metaphorically by 'falling down a cliff'? Do you mean 'being incapable of good' or 'doomed to eternal damnation in hell'?

All of us have our own sets of values that we live by. There are plenty of people who are either not religious, or adhere to a religion that is different to yours. Is it necessarily true that these people are thus fundamentally incapable of leading ethical, moral lives that contribute positively to the society around them?

The assertion that religion implies morality and vice versa is hopelessly flawed (to put it very kindly).

"In much of Christian Europe the godfearing used to burn old women suspected of being witches, an arduous duty they felt had been clearly put upon them by the Bible. The facts on witch burning are clear enough: First, faith made otherwise decent people commit acts of unspeakable horror, showing how ordinary and everyday feelings of human kindness and revulsion at human cruelty can be and have been overruled by religious belief. Secondly it exposes as utterly hollow the claim that religion sets an absolute and unchanging foundation for morality." -- H. Bondi, in 'Religion is a good thing', Lying Truths (eds. R. Duncan and M. Weston-Smith; Pergamon 1979).

OK, now to the 'damnation in hell' option... this also leads back to your usage of the word 'know'. You 'know' that person you mentioned is about to 'fall down a cliff', but according to faithful and devout practitioners of other religions, they 'know' that you are! Who am I to believe, you or them? What would you say if one of them were to, most sincerely and out of the sheer goodness of his/her heart, attempt to 'save' or 'redeem' you? How would you respond to this individual? Furthermore, if you then received this same response from yet another person whilst evangelizing, what would you think, and how would you reply?

Arguments based on 'faith' are perfectly fine amongst people who already share the same beliefs, but if you wish to convince others to adopt your beliefs, you will need to back them up with something a lot more substantial.

Good day to you too. :)

Keith
Oct 2nd, 2002, 04:19 PM
I didnt even know they had coke and drugs in biblical times

Scotso
Oct 2nd, 2002, 04:23 PM
Hey Keith, wanna screw?

nash
Oct 2nd, 2002, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by dw


You don't KNOW that person is about to fall down a cliff. You BELIEVE that person is about to fall down a cliff. There is a difference.

It's really sweet that you and ktw are valiantly trying to redeem our wayward souls, but:

1. You know what they say: 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'.
2. You seem to assume people who do not share your beliefs desperately need you to hold their hand and be their guiding light. I'm personally inclined to find that view somewhat patronizing.

What are you representing metaphorically by 'falling down a cliff'? Do you mean 'being incapable of good' or 'doomed to eternal damnation in hell'?

All of us have our own sets of values that we live by. There are plenty of people who are either not religious, or adhere to a religion that is different to yours. Is it necessarily true that these people are thus fundamentally incapable of leading ethical, moral lives that contribute positively to the society around them?

The assertion that religion implies morality and vice versa is hopelessly flawed (to put it very kindly).



OK, now to the 'damnation in hell' option... this also leads back to your usage of the word 'know'. You 'know' that person you mentioned is about to 'fall down a cliff', but according to faithful and devout practitioners of other religions, they 'know' that you are! Who am I to believe, you or them? What would you say if one of them were to, most sincerely and out of the sheer goodness of his/her heart, attempt to 'save' or 'redeem' you? How would you respond to this individual? Furthermore, if you then received this same response from yet another person whilst evangelizing, what would you think, and how would you reply?

Arguments based on 'faith' are perfectly fine amongst people who already share the same beliefs, but if you wish to convince others to adopt your beliefs, you will need to back them up with something a lot more substantial.

Good day to you too. :)


Where to start...???... OK - First of all, if I BELIEVE that a friend of mine is about to fall off a cliff, I would still warn him because I care about him. The Bible defines FAITH as the "evidence of things not seen". My FAITH is based on the teachings of the Bible.

The "cliff" metaphor is referring to Hell. There are certainly many non-Christians that lead very moral and clean lives and care about their friends and do many good works. There are also Christians that mess up and do really bad stuff. I don't believe that works constitute salvation. Salvation comes by FAITH. Works, for a Christian, are the result of that faith.

As to what I would say to someone of another religion witnessing to me, I would reply that I appreciate their concern, but my beliefs are in Jesus and the Bible. I wouldn't ridicule them or belittle them. I would, however, explain to them my beliefs and why I believe them.

If you'd like a more in-depth explanation of why I believe in Jesus and the Bible, I would be happy to share that with you if you're really interested. But if you're just looking to pick apart every word I say and belittle my beliefs, then I don't see any point to that.

Anyway, thanks for the good day wishes. I hope they were sincere. Mine were...

-Nash-

Keith
Oct 2nd, 2002, 05:55 PM
Go Lleyt... Im not sure you can handle this!!!

But yes, yes I wanna screw!!!

Lets get our groove on!

Keith
Oct 2nd, 2002, 05:56 PM
ya know what Scot...

This thread has been ruined with religion. Maybe we should do the dirty deed in a less dirty area.

Scotso
Oct 2nd, 2002, 07:26 PM
let's try your kitchen table :D

Keith
Oct 2nd, 2002, 07:50 PM
My kitchen table would be very ideal!

Chairs can be fun, too

Scotso
Oct 2nd, 2002, 07:54 PM
:lick:

ktwtennis
Oct 2nd, 2002, 11:57 PM
Yeah, that was necessary...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

nash--You said it great bud!

disposablehero
Oct 3rd, 2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by nash

If you'd like a more in-depth explanation of why I believe in Jesus and the Bible, I would be happy to share that with you if you're really interested.


Great. I'd suggest advertising your desire to share your beliefs in a new, different thread, rather than pushing them upon us in a completely unrelated thread.

Hurley
Oct 3rd, 2002, 01:06 AM
Those two can't do that. Must be against their religion.

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 3rd, 2002, 03:13 AM
Think I'll go and have a nice vodka and orange for lunch.

yoyo
Oct 3rd, 2002, 03:41 AM
Who started all of that ? Who is the first person to come up with those ? is he/she a user or a seller? I heard somewhere they invent and promote all of this to destroy minorities (black people +++) is that true ? So the majority of them will never accomplished anything too serious for their life. There are better ways to find true happiness I guess! Beliefs in God is the best one !

Crazy Canuck
Oct 3rd, 2002, 03:51 AM
:confused:


Appologies, I had no other way to express my thoughts at that post

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 3rd, 2002, 05:02 AM
Yeah, Rebecca, it makes me feel like another drink. Maybe I should have a nice big orgasm (Irish Cream and Cointreau, yum!).

Keep bringing on those drugs!

Crazy Canuck
Oct 3rd, 2002, 05:04 AM
I'm partial to the blow job myself.

I can't remember the ingredients though.. surprisingly the after taste is quite mild.

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 3rd, 2002, 05:16 AM
Equal parts of Kahlua, Baileys & Vodka
Layer into a pony or shot glass
Top with whipped cream

Dr. Peedy
Oct 3rd, 2002, 06:05 AM
Ooooo, I've been TOLD!! :o :rolleyes: No more religion talk for me! :o


Originally posted by jouissant
Equal parts of Kahlua, Baileys & Vodka
Layer into a pony or shot glass
Top with whipped cream


A 'blowjob' sounds positively fabulous, jouissant! May I have one, please? Also, great party, would anyone mind if I put on these hardcore porno videos I brought along, and lit up a joint indoors? There's plenty to go around! :angel:

Crazy Canuck
Oct 3rd, 2002, 06:25 AM
Only if you are willing to share.

Dr. Peedy
Oct 3rd, 2002, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by Rebecca
Only if you are willing to share.

But of course, Becca! Twice the company, twice the fun! There's plenty to go around for anyone who wants some!

Oooh, I nearly forgot, I brought some death metal CDs too! :angel:

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 3rd, 2002, 06:39 AM
Rebecca, let's leave the party for a minute and try sex on the beach.

~ The Leopard ~
Oct 3rd, 2002, 06:40 AM
1 oz. Vodka
3/4 oz. each: Chambord & Peach Schnapps
Splashes of Pineapple, Orange and Cranberry juices
Shake with ice & serve in a Collins or decorative glass

Crazy Canuck
Oct 3rd, 2002, 06:47 AM
I'm always up for some sex of the beach persuasion.