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View Full Version : How Will the Serena/Justine Henin Rivalry Evolve, in 2010?


Brooks.
Nov 11th, 2009, 05:41 AM
Yes another Serena vs. Justine thread :rolleyes:

H2H: Serena leads 7-6

Serena dominated the rivalry early winning 4 of the first 5 matches. All four of her wins were in straight sets. Justine's only win was a 7-6 in the third victory, on the slow clay, in Berlin.

In 03' H2H favored Henin 2-1. Justine was able to beat Serena twice on clay, and Serena beat Justine at Wimbledon.

The two didn't play again, until 2007. 2007 is known as the year that Justine dominated Serena (a.k.a. QuateRena), winning 3 of the 4 matches played (also having squandered 2 match points in the Miami final). Justine was clearly on another level this year, compared to Serena. The only match that I'm skeptical about giving full credit to Justine for, was the Wimbledon QF. Serena was obviously hampered in that one, and I feel like the result could have been different had Serena been completely healthy.

Their last match was in Miami, the following year. Serena won that one, only losing two games.

So with Henin back on the scene, what will happen next? Serena is undoubtly in better shape then she was, in 2007. But her loss of athleticism will continue to cause her problems against both Belgians. Will Justine be able to match the form she showed in 07'? Will she bring back QuarteRena? :scared:

I think these two are bound to meet in at least two of the slams next year. My prediction is that the rivalry will go back and forth, should they meet mutiple times next year. I doubt Serena will allow herself to be dominated by Justine, the way she was in 2007. It should also be noted that Justine still "only" has two wins over Serena off of clay, both in 2007. However, that's not to say that Justine won't present "major" problems for Serena, in 2010.

AO: Should they meet here, I have to give the edge to Serena. She's #1, and should be riding high on confidence. But Justine could always pull off a Clijsters. Foot fault, anyone? :o Fun fact: It's the only slam they haven't played each other at.
FO: Obviously favors Justine, but I give Serena a fighting chance. She hasn't been able to show her best in Paris, since 2003. She was close to winning it in 09', however.
Wimbledon: I don't care what new tactics and/or serve Justine brings to the table. No way she beats a healthy Williams Sister @ Wimbledon. It's been their playground for years now!
US Open: Toss up. But my hopes lie with Serena, for obvious reasons.

I'm actually kind of excited Justine is coming back now. :drool:

Thoughts?

skanky~skanketta
Nov 11th, 2009, 06:10 AM
I'm just glad you're giving Justine the credit she deserves. As a fan of both women, I find the "I hate Serena", "I hate Justine" threads a major pain in the ass because 1, I can hardly pick sides and 2, well, I cant pick sides.

I think that Serena'll probably dominate simply because she's at a high level now and Justine is just coming back. Unlike Kim, her game needs more time to really be effective. On clay, I think Justine is a sure shot. On the rest, it will depend on how well she is playing (except for Wimbledon, where Serena is the best bet).

That said, I hope both of them wins a slam next year (Justine @ Wimbledon and Serena @ the US Open). The other two can go to Kim and Venus.

Arnian
Nov 11th, 2009, 06:37 AM
You're asking for a thread full of arguing and naysaying on this one, however like skanky said, I'm happy you gave Justine credit.

To me personally, I think if they play early on Serena will have the edge, but like Clijsters showed at the US Open, against great talent the 09 Serena does not always prevail. I think that once she gets into the swing of things however, Justine will be a tough nugget to crack.

I voted that Justine will dominate out of bias, but I'm leaning more towards the rivalry going back and forth. I personally think Justine is a better player, especially given the physical differences between the two, but Serena is the most successful player this past decade so who knows.

In terms of the Slams: AO: depending upon where they meet in the draw, I give slight edge to Serena because Justine will just be coming back, but it's an even year down under and Justine is very dangerous when fresh.
FO: Without a doubt Justine, Serena has no chance
W: If Serena is playing well, she will probably win. Unless Justine plays incredibly well
US: Toss up, depends who's playing well, maybe slight edge to Justine because she will be comfortable playing by then
So 2/2

I'm hoping they play some big matches, but I'm hoping they both also have success without crossing each others paths.

fufuqifuqishahah
Nov 11th, 2009, 07:28 AM
Where is the, it won't option, as in... they will barely play each other???

moby
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:13 AM
Serena will win in Miami :lol: Rome :lol: Madrid :lol:, while Justine will continue their head to head trend in the slams.

sweetpeas
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:39 AM
Time will tell!But' if Serena really gets on her A game,that mean's doing the things Serena suppose to do( eat right take care of her weight etc etc,, we'v see some great tennis games this yr.Venus to.Never fall asleep on Queen Venus A game!:wavey::kiss::cool::worship:

DragonFlame
Nov 11th, 2009, 01:30 PM
To early to tell... Although in my head i definetly see an australian open quarterfinal serena-justine coming. :lol:

Olórin
Nov 11th, 2009, 01:39 PM
FO: Without a doubt Justine, Serena has no chance


LOL, without a doubt when you haven't even seen her play yet. Don't be absurd, of course Serena has a chance. Certainly more of a chance now than she did when they last played on clay in 2007.

Olórin
Nov 11th, 2009, 01:40 PM
Serena will win in Miami :lol: Rome :lol: Madrid :lol:, while Justine will continue their head to head trend in the slams.

Justine doesn't play Rome (except for that one time Serena nailed her in the final), call yourself a fan :rolleyes: ;)

spartanfan
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:30 PM
I hope both Serena and Venus win all their matches against Henin.

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:09 PM
as i had stated in another thread, i see it being a non rivalry unless 1 of 3 things happen:

1. serena decides to put 100%, i.e. winnerena, into non slam events
2. they only meet in slams
3. serena treats jh with the same mentality she seems to have with masha

not taking anything away from jh, but even if you deny it, serena said herself she turns up for slams and a few tier Is miami :tape:...so #1 is less likely to happen than 2 or 3 imo and therefore unless those last 2 happen it could turn out to be uninteresting :shrug:

miffedmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:48 PM
The far more interesting rivalry with Dementieva heats up. :p

And Lena grows back her bangs.

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:59 PM
only when serena does her punishment and declares that exhos count...and that lena's bangs are better :p

harloo
Nov 11th, 2009, 04:00 PM
The only upside to Kim and Justine is they haven't been on the circuit for a while so a player like Serena has to get back accustomed to their game. It seems people are acting like Kim and Justine went home and retired without any plans to come back.

As soon as Kim had her baby she was training and plotting. Her strategy worked but I guarantee you Serena will be ready for her next time they meet up. Justine isn't fooling anyone either, she took an extended break off like Kim not to get her education but to get a break and retool her game.

I believe Serena will have some difficulty at first but like all challenges she'll step up. It should make for an interesting rivalry and I really think it's great that Serena has more competition. This will just motivate her more than ever.:lol:

SAEKeithSerena
Nov 11th, 2009, 04:17 PM
Serena is about to rock Justine's world.

she's going to thrash her in australia. you heard it here first.

Monirena Wiles
Nov 11th, 2009, 05:27 PM
Serena fans have always underestimated Justine. Just like the justine fans underestimated Serena during the time where Justine was more dominant. They are as close as any two players can be in their H2H and I expect close matches again. Very slight edge to Serena.

Stamp Paid
Nov 11th, 2009, 06:14 PM
Serena does not take Justine lightly. She will do whatever she has to do to prepare. I dont see a repeat of 2007.

Brooks.
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:59 PM
Serena does not take Justine lightly. She will do whatever she has to do to prepare. I dont see a repeat of 2007.

I just want to see Serena beat Juju @ Roland Garros in front of a hostile crowd:drool:

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:07 PM
Serena fans have always underestimated Justine. Just like the justine fans underestimated Serena during the time where Justine was more dominant. They are as close as any two players can be in their H2H and I expect close matches again. Very slight edge to Serena.

i don't think serena fans underestimate jh...i think everyone underestimates serena because:


she's fat
she doesn't play "beautiful tennis"
she's fat
her game is "beautiful"

pick one :shrug:

Monirena Wiles
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:13 PM
Serena does not take Justine lightly. She will do whatever she has to do to prepare. I dont see a repeat of 2007.

Did Serena take her lightly at the US Open in 2008? Serena had already lost to her twice in the QFs of majors that year, not to mention their history and she still lost. I do think Serena at her best is better than Justine at her best, but Serena doesn't always play her best, even in matches that she is mentally ready for. It was a shock to see Clijsters beat Serena, but I called the upset two days before it happened. Everyone said the same thing about Serena vs. Bammer and that the next time Serena would want revenge and Serena still lost, so it doesn't always work that way. As much as Serena may want it, Justine is a big part of the equation, it's not 100% up to Serena unless Serena is 100% and that's rare to be honest. I think that's why so many people get shocked by results, your logic is faulty to begin with.

Monirena Wiles
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:14 PM
i don't think serena fans underestimate jh...i think everyone underestimates serena because:


she's fat
she doesn't play "beautiful tennis"
she's fat
her game is "beautiful"

pick one :shrug:

serena is the number one underestimated player of all time, but the irony is that serena fans are the number one group of people who constantly underestimate justine. so it's like a cycle.

Noctis
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:17 PM
Serena def Henin Ao 1st round 64 64
Serena def Henin RG 1st round 06 60 60
Serena def Henin Wimby1st Round 61 61
Sertna def Henin Uso 1st Round 60 60

Monirena Wiles
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:24 PM
Serena def Henin Ao 1st round 64 64
Serena def Henin RG 1st round 06 60 60
Serena def Henin Wimby1st Round 61 61
Sertna def Henin Uso 1st Round 60 60

And for all those bagels the series H2H is a virtual tie (considering the amount of times they have played). If those numbers are suposed to show dominance than the H2H should also reflect dominance and it doesnt, it's a virtual tie.

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:28 PM
Did Serena take her lightly at the US Open in 2008? Serena had already lost to her twice in the QFs of majors that year, not to mention their history and she still lost. I do think Serena at her best is better than Justine at her best, but Serena doesn't always play her best, even in matches that she is mentally ready for. It was a shock to see Clijsters beat Serena, but I called the upset two days before it happened. Everyone said the same thing about Serena vs. Bammer and that the next time Serena would want revenge and Serena still lost, so it doesn't always work that way. As much as Serena may want it, Justine is a big part of the equation, it's not 100% up to Serena unless Serena is 100% and that's rare to be honest. I think that's why so many people get shocked by results, your logic is faulty to begin with.

im sure you mean us open 07 ;) and i don't think serena took her lightly, but serena was out the whole summer because of her thumb and calf (not even an appearance just for turning up sake) and it showed in her matches all throughout (luckily she has the mind she has)....would serena have won? i'm not going to say yes, but obviously serena missing from wimbledon qf to the us open was a big gap and she wasn't as fit as she is now....

regarding the clijsters match, i thought that doubles match in those atrocious conditions BEFORE the rain actually came threw off her game...that's where the footfaults started (having to chase your serve literally) and i don't know if anyone saw that whole body fault serena served once in that match...so while i didn't expect her to lose, it didn't come as a total shock to see her game out of sorts compared to how she played before...

with regards to the 100% argument...players are hardly ever 100% physically, but when serena dials into a match 100% she has an ability to blow jh off the court in one or two shots and is comfortable with that...jh doesn't have that ability the same way serena does simply because of serve, and i don't think she likes playing that way anyways...

again, i don't think it's underestimating, but i think serena has blown almost EVERYONE off court (except bammer :rolleyes: ) and i don't think she gets credit for how devastating she can be...people treat 07 as the only way serena can play, yet forgot that 07 was the year she was getting back into tennis after play 4 tournies in 06

Miss Amor
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:31 PM
serena is the number one underestimated player of all time, but the irony is that serena fans are the number one group of people who constantly underestimate justine. so it's like a cycle.

Oh no, we never take Justine lightly, we know what sort of lying cheat she is and we are always prepared for the worst. Plus being a Serena fan, you kind of learn to expect some kind of cheating going on against her (whether its from a line umpire, chair umpire, opponent or anything else)

LightWarrior
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:00 PM
I hope Serena is done with her 2007 GS Henin complex.

Matt01
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:06 PM
Oh no, we never take Justine lightly, we know what sort of lying cheat she is and we are always prepared for the worst. Plus being a Serena fan, you kind of learn to expect some kind of cheating going on against her (whether its from a line umpire, chair umpire, opponent or anything else)


Pathetic as always :worship:

Almost as classless and arrogant as your aggressive fave :tape:

How the rivalry will evolve? Justine will continue where stopped in 2007 and kick Serena's fat overrated ass again :lol:

Yorker
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:16 PM
seeing as really only the slams matter

AO- Henin's first Gs back, the rust is most likely still going to be there however it is an even year and serena likes her odd years, the AO court is a neutral court in my mind for their game styles.

FO- adv. Henin

W- adv. Serena

USO- slight edge to Serena as the court is faster, honestly though the pics that have shown up of Justine give me a sense she's going to have some more power in her game.

this is all hypothetical, depending on Justine's game and how serena plays. i really just want to see some good matches between the two and i'm hoping for the first gs final between the two , ican't believe there hasn't been one yet. 2010 is looking good though on paper, have to wait and see if it transitions to the actual play.

Stamp Paid
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:18 PM
Did Serena take her lightly at the US Open in 2008? Serena had already lost to her twice in the QFs of majors that year, not to mention their history and she still lost. I do think Serena at her best is better than Justine at her best, but Serena doesn't always play her best, even in matches that she is mentally ready for. It was a shock to see Clijsters beat Serena, but I called the upset two days before it happened. Everyone said the same thing about Serena vs. Bammer and that the next time Serena would want revenge and Serena still lost, so it doesn't always work that way. As much as Serena may want it, Justine is a big part of the equation, it's not 100% up to Serena unless Serena is 100% and that's rare to be honest. I think that's why so many people get shocked by results, your logic is faulty to begin with.what the hell are you talking about? Serena won the US Open in 2008 :weirdo: And I never said that Justine wasn't a part of the equation, all I said was that I dont see a repeat of 2007. There were several elements of Serena's game that Henin was able to exploit in 2007 that Serena has worked to ameliorate over the past year and a half. I welcome Henin's return, because if anything, it will only motivate Serena to work harder and play better so as to not repeat 2007. I believe her improved form in 2008 was a direct result of her ownage by Henin in 2007.

If I was a Henin fan, I would just be hoping that whatever was 'wrong' with Justine in 2008 that caused that totally inexplicable drop of form is eradicated from her psyche/system in 2010.

Monirena Wiles
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:31 PM
what the hell are you talking about? Serena won the US Open in 2008 :weirdo: And I never said that Justine wasn't a part of the equation, all I said was that I dont see a repeat of 2007. There were several elements of Serena's game that Henin was able to exploit in 2007 that Serena has worked to ameliorate over the past year and a half. I welcome Henin's return, because if anything, it will only motivate Serena to work harder and play better so as to not repeat 2007. I believe her improved form in 2008 was a direct result of her ownage by Henin in 2007.

If I was a Henin fan, I would just be hoping that whatever was 'wrong' with Justine in 2008 that caused that totally inexplicable drop of form is eradicated from her psyche/system in 2010.

Not sure why you start off the reply with "Why the hell"... I wasn't being argumenative I was just having a friendly discussion about Justine and Serena. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I disrepect you, your attitude is poor and thats too bad because I enjoy having discussions. Obviously I meant 2007 an honest mistake, what's the big deal? I still think you take Justine too lightly. Because Serena is injury prone you have to consider that she might not be 100% so anything can happen. Wins dont come with asterick marks, so excuses don't mean much. I will be rooting for Serena to whop Justine's booty, but I will take it as a guaranteed match if they meet each other. Between them their career H2H will always be close, never mind the excuses.

Donny
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:39 PM
Pathetic as always :worship:

Almost as classless and arrogant as your aggressive fave :tape:

How the rivalry will evolve? Justine will continue where stopped in 2007 and kick Serena's fat overrated ass again :lol:

Ladies and gentlemen, words from the paragon of classiness and humility, Matt01.

Arnian
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:11 PM
LOL, without a doubt when you haven't even seen her play yet. Don't be absurd, of course Serena has a chance. Certainly more of a chance now than she did when they last played on clay in 2007.

She shamed her in 2007, and I say this because the only good match that Serena has played at the FO the past 3 years was against Kuznetsova this year. I'm just facing the facts that Serena kinda sucks on the red clay. Justine is the best clay court player of this generation and she knows how to win on the red clay and she will be in form by then. I mean I'm being a little harsh on Serena, but I give credit where credit is due, and Justine would win that unless it was a fluke.

Just like I think Serena would win at Wimbledon if she was playing great, unless Justine played amazing tennis.

DOUBLEFIST
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:24 PM
Serena will dominate her early in the year and win RG, much to the dismay of the French crowd.

Neither will win Wimby. Venus will make sure the VR dish stays in the family, beating a devastated Juju along the way. This will spur rumors of a re-retirement for Juju.

Late in the year Juju, will pick up her game, Serena will get lazy :rolleyes: and Juju will get her first victory of the year over Serena during the summer hard court season, renewing her hope and causing Carlos Rod' and the scores of misguided Juju fans to talk an incredible amount of trash and bring about the resurfacing of Mother Majorie in her/its original user name.

We Serena fans will laugh and simply say that Serena was disinterested and didn't play her best (which will be the truth), further infuriating Queater's fan base.

Serena will win the USO, beating Juju along the way and there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth around here... (along with a little rejoicing too.) ;) :devil:

Arnian
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:36 PM
Serena will dominate her early in the year and win RG, much to the dismay of the French crowd.

Neither will win Wimby. Venus will make sure the VR dish stays in the family, beating a devastated Juju along the way. This will spur rumors of a re-retirement for Juju.

Late in the year Juju, will pick up her game, Serena will get lazy :rolleyes: and Juju will get her first victory of the year over Serena during the summer hard court season, renewing her hope and causing Carlos Rod' and the scores of misguided Juju fans to talk an incredible amount of trash and bring about the resurfacing of Mother Majorie in her/its original user name.

We Serena fans will laugh and simply say that Serena was disinterested and didn't play her best (which will be the truth), further infuriating Queater's fan base.

Serena will win the USO, beating Juju along the way and there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth around here... (along with a little rejoicing too.) ;) :devil:

LOL delusional much?

Dunlop1
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:37 PM
However it goes, I am just excited I get to see Henin's brand of tennis again.
I hope for some epic matches between her and Serena. I also hope to see her meet Venus more often and see her tackle the newbs (Woz and Vika).

A battle of the comback belgians, preferably at RG final, would also be awesome!

Dunlop1
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:38 PM
Serena will dominate her early in the year and win RG, much to the dismay of the French crowd.

Neither will win Wimby. Venus will make sure the VR dish stays in the family, beating a devastated Juju along the way. This will spur rumors of a re-retirement for Juju.

Late in the year Juju, will pick up her game, Serena will get lazy :rolleyes: and Juju will get her first victory of the year over Serena during the summer hard court season, renewing her hope and causing Carlos Rod' and the scores of misguided Juju fans to talk an incredible amount of trash and bring about the resurfacing of Mother Majorie in her/its original user name.

We Serena fans will laugh and simply say that Serena was disinterested and didn't play her best (which will be the truth), further infuriating Queater's fan base.

Serena will win the USO, beating Juju along the way and there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth around here... (along with a little rejoicing too.) ;) :devil:

"...your delusional
your confused you know
why you wasting your time..."

Conor
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:47 PM
Im afraid of 2010 :scared: I really dont know whats going to happen. Im really just glad to see Justine playing again. I think, unlike Kim, Justine will need quite a few months to get back into her stride so if Justine and Serena meet earlier on the year, Id definitely expect Serena to win. But who really knows whats going to happen. Cant wait :bounce:

Matt01
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:52 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, words from the paragon of classiness and humility, Matt01.


Thanks :D

Stamp Paid
Nov 12th, 2009, 12:06 AM
Not sure why you start off the reply with "Why the hell"... I wasn't being argumenative I was just having a friendly discussion about Justine and Serena. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I disrepect you, your attitude is poor and thats too bad because I enjoy having discussions. Obviously I meant 2007 an honest mistake, what's the big deal? I still think you take Justine too lightly. Because Serena is injury prone you have to consider that she might not be 100% so anything can happen. Wins dont come with asterick marks, so excuses don't mean much. I will be rooting for Serena to whop Justine's booty, but I will take it as a guaranteed match if they meet each other. Between them their career H2H will always be close, never mind the excuses.Because you said something about my logic being poor, or something. Whatever.
And Im taking Justine too lightly because I dont expect her to come back and own Serena immediately? OK :lol:

Olórin
Nov 12th, 2009, 12:15 AM
She shamed her in 2007, and I say this because the only good match that Serena has played at the FO the past 3 years was against Kuznetsova this year. I'm just facing the facts that Serena kinda sucks on the red clay. Justine is the best clay court player of this generation and she knows how to win on the red clay and she will be in form by then. I mean I'm being a little harsh on Serena, but I give credit where credit is due, and Justine would win that unless it was a fluke.

Just like I think Serena would win at Wimbledon if she was playing great, unless Justine played amazing tennis.

The only good match? Serena played quite well in several of early round matches this year. She also played some very encouraging tennis in Rome and Berlin in 2008. You need to analyse with a bit more depth.

Each match is a blank slate. Im not going to sit here and say Serena is a better claycourt player than Justine because she isn't; however she has an excellent chance if she plays well. Your sensationalist comments such as "Serena has no chance" and that Justine can only lose by some "fluke" are ridiculous. You don't know Justine will be in form by then, you don't even know what her game is going to be like! Personally I think you would do well to err a little more on the side of caution....

danieln1
Nov 12th, 2009, 01:26 AM
Serena will pick up where she left: a bagel in Miami!

She will just dominate, and won´t lose a set, because in 2007 serena was injured in all slam matches they played... She´s just more talented, and if she´s interested in the match, like in Wimb 2003 and Miami 2008, she will just crush her opponent

Matt01
Nov 12th, 2009, 01:39 AM
Serena will pick up where she left: a bagel in Miami!

She will just dominate, and won´t lose a set, because in 2007 serena was injured in all slam matches they played... She´s just more talented, and if she´s interested in the match, like in Wimb 2003 and Miami 2008, she will just crush her opponent


:haha:

moby
Nov 12th, 2009, 03:16 AM
Serena will pick up where she left: a bagel in Miami!

She will just dominate, and won´t lose a set, because in 2007 serena was injured in all slam matches they played... She´s just more talented, and if she´s interested in the match, like in Wimb 2003 and Miami 2008, she will just crush her opponentSerena is always, erm, injured when she plays Justine anyway, so I expect that trend to continue too.

Roookie
Nov 12th, 2009, 04:34 AM
they won't meet till 2012 in Rome qualies.

ireneteri
Nov 12th, 2009, 05:17 AM
Serena is always, erm, injured when she plays Justine anyway, so I expect that trend to continue too.

true that

ireneteri
Nov 12th, 2009, 05:17 AM
:lol::lol::lol::haha:

ireneteri
Nov 12th, 2009, 05:23 AM
Serena will pick up where she left: a bagel in Miami!

She will just dominate, and won´t lose a set, because in 2007 serena was injured in all slam matches they played... She´s just more talented, and if she´s interested in the match, like in Wimb 2003 and Miami 2008, she will just crush her opponent
justine wasnt interested in miami 2008 match.

DOUBLEFIST
Nov 12th, 2009, 05:37 AM
"...your delusional
your confused you know
why you wasting your time..."

Mariah! :bounce:

:lol: Nah, More like WISHFUL thinking.

But I have a sneaking suspicion that much/some of my prognostication will come true.

Shi Feng
Nov 12th, 2009, 05:51 AM
It's very hard for Justine to come back in her best form as Serena did in AO 2007. She's not as strong as Serena.

Dunlop1
Nov 12th, 2009, 06:41 AM
Mariah! :bounce:

:lol: Nah, More like WISHFUL thinking.

But I have a sneaking suspicion that much/some of my prognostication will come true.

I love that pic of kiddie Venus and Richard in your avatar.

Arnian
Nov 12th, 2009, 08:58 AM
The only good match? Serena played quite well in several of early round matches this year. She also played some very encouraging tennis in Rome and Berlin in 2008. You need to analyse with a bit more depth.

Each match is a blank slate. Im not going to sit here and say Serena is a better claycourt player than Justine because she isn't; however she has an excellent chance if she plays well. Your sensationalist comments such as "Serena has no chance" and that Justine can only lose by some "fluke" are ridiculous. You don't know Justine will be in form by then, you don't even know what her game is going to be like! Personally I think you would do well to err a little more on the side of caution....

lol Serena looked like a fish out of water in almost half the early round matches at RG this year, and she came close to going out in the 1st round. She also won Charleston in 2008 ,but that didn't help her much at RG because she lost in the 3rd round. I read on this forum daily about Serena fans boasting and being confident, well I'm boasting and being confident about the French Open. I give Serena her due credit every where else, but she does not play her best tennis at the French and that's just a fact.

Watching
Nov 12th, 2009, 10:54 AM
lol Serena looked like a fish out of water in almost half the early round matches at RG this year, and she came close to going out in the 1st round. She also won Charleston in 2008 ,but that didn't help her much at RG because she lost in the 3rd round. I read on this forum daily about Serena fans boasting and being confident, well I'm boasting and being confident about the French Open. I give Serena her due credit every where else, but she does not play her best tennis at the French and that's just a fact.

I don't think you read Serena Lover's comment very well. Surely you can see that at Roland Garros Serena has atleast a little more than "no chance", as you said. Whilst she doesn't have the results there that Henin has, she has beaten her on red clay, won red clay titles, played a very close match against her at RG in 03 :ahem:

If anything I'd say that it would be 70:30 given Justine will only have played half a years worth of tennis.

Olórin
Nov 12th, 2009, 11:53 AM
lol Serena looked like a fish out of water in almost half the early round matches at RG this year, and she came close to going out in the 1st round. She also won Charleston in 2008 ,but that didn't help her much at RG because she lost in the 3rd round. I read on this forum daily about Serena fans boasting and being confident, well I'm boasting and being confident about the French Open. I give Serena her due credit every where else, but she does not play her best tennis at the French and that's just a fact.

The bolded is your opinion and I question your judgement - Serena got stronger and stronger with each match. I don't know if anyone else could do that and play so well in the quarters, it was nothing short of astounding really.

She doesn't play her best tennis at most tournaments and that's a fact. She can win on any court anwhere against anyone - and that's a fact. Boast all you want, I understand Justine-fans are protective about the French and rightly so. But if you are going to be dismissive about Serena's chances I am going to call you out on it.

Monirena Wiles
Nov 12th, 2009, 02:26 PM
This thread will be brought up a lot througout the year. And a lot of people will have a lot of the "usual" excuses, and that will be just as exciting as the matches.

LoveFifteen
Nov 12th, 2009, 04:28 PM
I'm so excited that Justine is coming back. Come on, y'all, you know whether you love or hate Justine (and Serena), we all want to watch this two fierce divas go at it on the tennis court. Do we really want to see another year with Slam semifinalists as tragic as Wickmayer, Cibulkova, and Sanowa! :unsure:

winchester
Nov 12th, 2009, 05:00 PM
Worst rivalry ever, I don't even remember one match where both players played well at the same time:o

DOUBLEFIST
Nov 12th, 2009, 07:37 PM
I love that pic of kiddie Venus and Richard in your avatar.

Thanks. Yeah, I found it pretty irresistible myself. I had it up there a long time and just haven't had the heart to change it. :lol:

Arnian
Nov 12th, 2009, 07:55 PM
The bolded is your opinion and I question your judgement - Serena got stronger and stronger with each match. I don't know if anyone else could do that and play so well in the quarters, it was nothing short of astounding really.

She doesn't play her best tennis at most tournaments and that's a fact. She can win on any court anwhere against anyone - and that's a fact. Boast all you want, I understand Justine-fans are protective about the French and rightly so. But if you are going to be dismissive about Serena's chances I am going to call you out on it.

No and I understand your point; I feel like Serena had her best chance in years to win RG this year. She should have beaten Kuznetsova. I mean I love Serena, it's just often times she's almost embarrassing looking on the clay. I feel that if Justine was playing well, Serena would not win at the French. I think she'd have to playing amazing, or Justine would have to flounder. I say the same thing about Serena at Wimbledon, and I think if Serena is playing her "A" game, Justine probably doesn't have a chance there, but like Serena at the French if she plays tremendously well or Serena lacks, she has a chance. This is what I think, and what my opinion is. Saying Serena has 0% chance is more a tease on my part, but to clarify the above is what I think.

DemWilliamsGulls
Nov 12th, 2009, 11:09 PM
I hope Serena continues to tap dat ass again like she did at their last meeting...LOL Let's go baby!!!!!

serenafann
Nov 13th, 2009, 12:29 AM
All Serena has to do is stay determined and play Justine with the full focus and will that she does when she plays a player like Maria Sharapova and I think she will be fine.

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 01:40 AM
Serena is the better player of the two and has more weapons. Serena will never lose to Justine again in Slams. Especially next year. It will be Masha redux. :lol:

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 01:53 AM
Serena will dominate her early in the year and win RG, much to the dismay of the French crowd.

Neither will win Wimby. Venus will make sure the VR dish stays in the family, beating a devastated Juju along the way. This will spur rumors of a re-retirement for Juju.

Late in the year Juju, will pick up her game, Serena will get lazy :rolleyes: and Juju will get her first victory of the year over Serena during the summer hard court season, renewing her hope and causing Carlos Rod' and the scores of misguided Juju fans to talk an incredible amount of trash and bring about the resurfacing of Mother Majorie in her/its original user name.

We Serena fans will laugh and simply say that Serena was disinterested and didn't play her best (which will be the truth), further infuriating Queater's fan base.

Serena will win the USO, beating Juju along the way and there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth around here... (along with a little rejoicing too.) ;) :devil:

:rolls: :rolls: :rolls:

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 01:58 AM
LOL delusional much?

Arni, DF is far from delusional. I think what is delusional is you thinking that Justine is a better tennis player than Serena.:lol: I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life. The fact that you totally forget that during each quarterfinal Serena lost to Justine in 2007 slams, she was injured and/or not in form coming back from injury. But, you Queater fans dismiss this, because all you have is 2007. If Justine was so great, wouldn't she have a better dominating record? Sure she was No. 1 for many weeks, but so was Dinara Safina.:confused: I'm not even going to get into a back and forth with you on Justine vs. Serena in '07 because it's been done to death. Just suffice it to say that your opinion about Justine vs. Serena is just like all of the rest of our opinions, just an opinion. Not a fact. :)

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 02:00 AM
The only good match? Serena played quite well in several of early round matches this year. She also played some very encouraging tennis in Rome and Berlin in 2008. You need to analyse with a bit more depth.

Each match is a blank slate. Im not going to sit here and say Serena is a better claycourt player than Justine because she isn't; however she has an excellent chance if she plays well. Your sensationalist comments such as "Serena has no chance" and that Justine can only lose by some "fluke" are ridiculous. You don't know Justine will be in form by then, you don't even know what her game is going to be like! Personally I think you would do well to err a little more on the side of caution....

:worship::worship::worship: Oh but don't forget, Justine can win Wimbledon against Serena and Venus if she plays well. :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 02:01 AM
Serena is always, erm, injured when she plays Justine anyway, so I expect that trend to continue too.

Well, I guess that makes Justine a very poor player since Serena is ahead in the H2H. :scratch: You make no sense.

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 02:03 AM
lol Serena looked like a fish out of water in almost half the early round matches at RG this year, and she came close to going out in the 1st round. She also won Charleston in 2008 ,but that didn't help her much at RG because she lost in the 3rd round. I read on this forum daily about Serena fans boasting and being confident, well I'm boasting and being confident about the French Open. I give Serena her due credit every where else, but she does not play her best tennis at the French and that's just a fact.

Yes, let that be the reason why in '02 she won beating the defending champion JenCap in route and Justine in Rome prior to that. :rolleyes: And, let's not forget the infamous '03 match vs. Justine where Serena was ahead in the match until Justine felt she had to cheat in order to win.

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 02:08 AM
The bolded is your opinion and I question your judgement - Serena got stronger and stronger with each match. I don't know if anyone else could do that and play so well in the quarters, it was nothing short of astounding really.

She doesn't play her best tennis at most tournaments and that's a fact. She can win on any court anwhere against anyone - and that's a fact. Boast all you want, I understand Justine-fans are protective about the French and rightly so. But if you are going to be dismissive about Serena's chances I am going to call you out on it.

She's always slow to start in the first week of slams. Hell, she looked like a fish out of water in the first round of AO '03 against Emily Loit, going three sets and we all know how that turned out.

serenafan08
Nov 13th, 2009, 03:44 AM
Honestly Justine is the one who should have the upper hand in the beginning; she's had more opportunities to see Serena play and take note of what her tendencies are. Because Justine hasn't played for a year and a half, Serena won't know what to expect - just like when she played Kim @ the US Open. But once Serena finds the right gameplan, I expect her to dictate play on every surface except clay - just like it usually goes.

Stamp Paid
Nov 13th, 2009, 04:22 AM
I just realized: I dont like Arnian. LOL :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 13th, 2009, 11:11 AM
I just realized: I dont like Arnian. LOL :lol:

lawl :lol:

Galsen
Nov 13th, 2009, 11:13 AM
I just realized: I dont like Arnian. LOL :lol:

:rolls:

Matt01
Nov 13th, 2009, 11:31 AM
I think what is delusional is you thinking that Justine is a better tennis player than Serena.:lol: I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life.

:lol:

Serena will never lose to Justine again in Slams.

:lol:

Arnian
Nov 13th, 2009, 09:39 PM
Arni, DF is far from delusional. I think what is delusional is you thinking that Justine is a better tennis player than Serena.:lol: I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life. The fact that you totally forget that during each quarterfinal Serena lost to Justine in 2007 slams, she was injured and/or not in form coming back from injury. But, you Queater fans dismiss this, because all you have is 2007. If Justine was so great, wouldn't she have a better dominating record? Sure she was No. 1 for many weeks, but so was Dinara Safina.:confused: I'm not even going to get into a back and forth with you on Justine vs. Serena in '07 because it's been done to death. Just suffice it to say that your opinion about Justine vs. Serena is just like all of the rest of our opinions, just an opinion. Not a fact. :)

Lol Safina<Justine and if you look at the chart recently that someone posted, Justine had the best year in 2007 win wise vs. top ten players than any other player, it was truly a very dominating year for her.

I agree that Serena has weapons that Justine does not posses: Serve, Power, but Serena also has a significant height and body advantage naturally, so just the fact that Justine can hold her own with what she has and beat Serena to me states a lot. When a player is naturally the physical under dog but can use technique, tennis smarts, and her superior backhand to dominate play, that says something. This is why I think Justine is the better player, because if she was as tall and big as Serena, it would be game over.

The one thing the baffles me is, you guys always forget to acknowledge the natural advantage Serena has, she is so powerful, and serves so well, she should always win. Yet, when she's up against someone who has an all court game and has a little bit of power mixed in those weapons don't always win her the match. From a physical stand point Serena should never lose to Justine, but she does because Justine is the better player. She has less and makes more out of it. Also, Denise I have always said this is my opinion, but you should know I'm going to think this anyways, just like you think Serena is the best. I think Serena is the 2nd best player of this generation, that should appease you some ^_^

Arnian
Nov 13th, 2009, 09:39 PM
I just realized: I dont like Arnian. LOL :lol:

Can we not be childish please

Elegante
Nov 13th, 2009, 09:49 PM
:worship::worship::worship: Oh but don't forget, Justine can win Wimbledon against Serena and Venus if she plays well. :rolleyes:

BUt she can? She beat Serena there already and has taken a convincing set off Venus who was in her prime.

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 10:04 PM
BUt she can? She beat Serena there already and has taken a convincing set off Venus who was in her prime.

Yes and Serena took her to three sets playing on one leg and with one hand. :rolleyes:

Elegante
Nov 13th, 2009, 10:10 PM
Who made it to the next round just a one word answer please?

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 10:31 PM
Lol Safina<Justine and if you look at the chart recently that someone posted, Justine had the best year in 2007 win wise vs. top ten players than any other player, it was truly a very dominating year for her.

My point exactly.

That's all y'all have is 2007. :lol: That is the only year she did that and she still only won 2 slams that year. :lol: If that is a dominating year for her, than that's pretty sad.

I agree that Serena has weapons that Justine does not posses: Serve, Power, but Serena also has a significant height and body advantage naturally, so just the fact that Justine can hold her own with what she has and beat Serena to me states a lot. When a player is naturally the physical under dog but can use technique, tennis smarts, and her superior backhand to dominate play, that says something. This is why I think Justine is the better player, because if she was as tall and big as Serena, it would be game over.

:haha: Justine's backhand is overrated. The only reason people talk about it is because it's one-handed. That's the only thing special about it and it gets exposed when she plays players like Amelie (in '06), Serena, Venus and Maria, because it's easier to get her out of position. Serena's forehand and backhand are more accurate and more powerful than Justine's. If you want to give Justine some kudos that truly reflect how well she plays, talk about her volleys. :shrug:

And, it's not just about Serena's power and size. Serena has finesse as well, court awareness and strategy. It's not all about power. But that power allows Serena to be on the defensive and hit an offensive shot out of position. All of these weapons Serena possesses makes her the better player.

:lol: And exactly what play has Justine dominated against Serena? :confused: In three out of six matches Justine won against Serena, they were three setters. In seven matches Serena won against Justine, only one was a three setter.

But let me get this straight, Justine is the better player because she can win against Serena because Serena is bigger, taller and stronger. :lol: Yet, the only time she has beaten Serena on anything other than clay was in 2007 at Wimbledon in three sets with a one-legged, one-handed Serena and the US Open when Serena was coming back from the injury I just stated. But, she's the better player. :rolleyes:

The one thing the baffles me is, you guys always forget to acknowledge the natural advantage Serena has, she is so powerful, and serves so well, she should always win. Yet, when she's up against someone who has an all court game and has a little bit of power mixed in those weapons don't always win her the match. From a physical stand point Serena should never lose to Justine, but she does because Justine is the better player. She has less and makes more out of it. Also, Denise I have always said this is my opinion, but you should know I'm going to think this anyways, just like you think Serena is the best. I think Serena is the 2nd best player of this generation, that should appease you some ^_^

No one is taking anything away from Justine's skills as a player. We acknowledge that she's a good player, especially on clay. Up until '07, that is the only surface she could beat Serena on, and that's still probably true when Serena is healthy. What baffles me is, you guys always forget to acknowledge that the only two times Justine beat Serena on any other surface than clay, was when Serena was injured and not in form and it was in '07, her only dominate year.

Lastly Arni, it doesn't matter to me what you think. Just understand that when I see you making illogical arguments in Justine's favor against Serena, I'm going to challenge you.

Denise4925
Nov 13th, 2009, 10:31 PM
Who made it to the next round just a one word answer please?

Who won that round? Just a one word answer please. :lol:

Elegante
Nov 13th, 2009, 10:36 PM
Bartoli.


2007 talking about two slams, but she only competed in three. That's pretty good in my opinion.

Arnian
Nov 14th, 2009, 12:40 AM
My point exactly.

That's all y'all have is 2007. :lol: That is the only year she did that and she still only won 2 slams that year. :lol: If that is a dominating year for her, than that's pretty sad.



:haha: Justine's backhand is overrated. The only reason people talk about it is because it's one-handed. That's the only thing special about it and it gets exposed when she plays players like Amelie (in '06), Serena, Venus and Maria, because it's easier to get her out of position. Serena's forehand and backhand are more accurate and more powerful than Justine's. If you want to give Justine some kudos that truly reflect how well she plays, talk about her volleys. :shrug:

And, it's not just about Serena's power and size. Serena has finesse as well, court awareness and strategy. It's not all about power. But that power allows Serena to be on the defensive and hit an offensive shot out of position. All of these weapons Serena possesses makes her the better player.

:lol: And exactly what play has Justine dominated against Serena? :confused: In three out of six matches Justine won against Serena, they were three setters. In seven matches Serena won against Justine, only one was a three setter.

But let me get this straight, Justine is the better player because she can win against Serena because Serena is bigger, taller and stronger. :lol: Yet, the only time she has beaten Serena on anything other than clay was in 2007 at Wimbledon in three sets with a one-legged, one-handed Serena and the US Open when Serena was coming back from the injury I just stated. But, she's the better player. :rolleyes:




No one is taking anything away from Justine's skills as a player. We acknowledge that she's a good player, especially on clay. Up until '07, that is the only surface she could beat Serena on, and that's still probably true when Serena is healthy. What baffles me is, you guys always forget to acknowledge that the only two times Justine beat Serena on any other surface than clay, was when Serena was injured and not in form and it was in '07, her only dominate year.

Lastly Arni, it doesn't matter to me what you think. Just understand that when I see you making illogical arguments in Justine's favor against Serena, I'm going to challenge you.


I'm not making illogical arguments, and 2007 was far from Justine's only dominate year, in 2006 she finished #1, won RG, and was the first player to make 4/4 finals in a long time. In 2003 she also finished #1 and won two majors. Serena has 2002 mainly when she dominated tennis and for years that's all you guys had either, besides two AO wins in the middle until late 08. Serena has done incredibly well at the majors over the past year, but dominate she has not. If you're talking about us clinging to 2007, then you cling to 2002. I on the other hand compliment Serena when she's dominating and what she is good at, I'm not so blindly biased to Justine that I'm incapable of seeing the other side.

I'm sorry but Justine has the best backhand in women's tennis, and Johnny Mac and plenty of other tennis expects agree on that notion. Justine has consistency, better hands, volleys, and backhand to Serena's power,serve,determination. I personally don't think Serena has much finesse, I mean she's gotten better with her slice and I'm proud of her for that, but she's not a very technical player.

In terms of not winning on other surfaces up until 07, that's not even a legitimate argument since they didn't play between 04-07. You can say what you want to about Justine beating Serena, but it almost went 4/4 that year for Justine. She almost embarrassed Serena at Miami and there was nothing wrong with her there. RG she shamed her. Wimbledon, I watched that match live and recently and yes Serena was hindered by her backhand, but that was it (to me this the only match your argument has any standing). There was nothing wrong with Serena at the US Open, despite what you might say. She just got beat. At least I'm willing to acknowledge when Justine gets beat, instead of making excuses. Justine can beat Serena on any surface, on any day, especially if she returns with the dominating form she had before. You can spin it any way you want to, but until 2010 it's all opinion.

I think if they play it will go back and forth, but just for future reference: just because Serena loses doesn't mean you have to blame the alignment of the stars, or that if she wins, she's playing amazing godly tennis. It's not black and white. There's a lot of in between with Serena's play, as any other, and Justine deserves every ounce of credit for her wins.

Galsen
Nov 14th, 2009, 12:57 AM
I'm not making illogical arguments, and 2007 was far from Justine's only dominate year, in 2006 she finished #1, won RG, and was the first player to make 4/4 finals in a long time. In 2003 she also finished #1 and won two majors. Serena has 2002 mainly when she dominated tennis and for years that's all you guys had either, besides two AO wins in the middle until late 08. Serena has done incredibly well at the majors over the past year, but dominate she has not. If you're talking about us clinging to 2007, then you cling to 2002. I on the other hand compliment Serena when she's dominating and what she is good at, I'm not so blindly biased to Justine that I'm incapable of seeing the other side.

I'm sorry but Justine has the best backhand in women's tennis, and Johnny Mac and plenty of other tennis expects agree on that notion. Justine has consistency, better hands, volleys, and backhand to Serena's power,serve,determination. I personally don't think Serena has much finesse, I mean she's gotten better with her slice and I'm proud of her for that, but she's not a very technical player.

In terms of not winning on other surfaces up until 07, that's not even a legitimate argument since they didn't play between 04-07. You can say what you want to about Justine beating Serena, but it almost went 4/4 that year for Justine. She almost embarrassed Serena at Miami and there was nothing wrong with her there. RG she shamed her. Wimbledon, I watched that match live and recently and yes Serena was hindered by her backhand, but that was it (to me this the only match your argument has any standing). There was nothing wrong with Serena at the US Open, despite what you might say. She just got beat. At least I'm willing to acknowledge when Justine gets beat, instead of making excuses. Justine can beat Serena on any surface, on any day, especially if she returns with the dominating form she had before. You can spin it any way you want to, but until 2010 it's all opinion.

I think if they play it will go back and forth, but just for future reference: just because Serena loses doesn't mean you have to blame the alignment of the stars, or that if she wins, she's playing amazing godly tennis. It's not black and white. There's a lot of in between with Serena's play, as any other, and Justine deserves every ounce of credit for her wins.

no!
Serena dominated in 2003 and if Henin finished #1 that year it's b/c of Serena . she was injured did not play after wimbledon and she won W whopping Justine's ass en route. Justine can beat Serena on any surface just like Serena can beat her everywhere
and :spit: @ Serena not being very technical

Arnian
Nov 14th, 2009, 01:04 AM
no!
Serena dominated in 2003 and if Henin finished #1 that year it's b/c of Serena . she was injured did not play after wimbledon and she won W whopping Justine's ass en route. Justine can beat Serena on any surface just like Serena can beat her everywhere
and :spit: @ Serena not being very technical

Right, just like Serena won 3 grand slams after Justine retired. Lets try to give people credit for what they do and not go the logic of "well so and so was injured, or didn't play and that's why." Give me a break.

Volcana
Nov 14th, 2009, 01:07 AM
I couldn't hazard a prI couldn't hazard a guess on this. Recent history is all over the map.

Hingis retired. Came back, won tournaments, but not a slam.
Davenport retired. Came back, won tournaments, but not a slam.
Clijsters retired. Came back, won a slam.

There's no conclusion to draw. I'm sure Henin legs will feel better for the time off, but who's to say what it means for her game?

Galsen
Nov 14th, 2009, 01:14 AM
Right, just like Serena won 3 grand slams after Justine retired. Lets try to give people credit for what they do and not go the logic of "well so and so was injured, or didn't play and that's why." Give me a break.

oh really so it's Serena's fault if she retired?
okay we can go on that way
Justine won USO 03 and AO 04 when Serena was not there:wavey:
I can go on if you want.
At least Serena doesn't runnaway when she feels she might lose one of her title

VishaalMaria
Nov 14th, 2009, 01:23 AM
Why do people keep bringing the Miami 08 QF match up? That result IMHO is an anomaly. Henin mentally checked out at the end of 2007. If anything, their matches pre 2008 should say alot.

If you want to discuss Serena and Henins rivarly, discuss it pre 2008 as Justine had no business on a tennis court thereafter.

And Btw, that Miami QF 08 match was the worst match I've ever seen. Next to Venus v Pironkova and that awful US Open 07 semi.

Denise4925
Nov 14th, 2009, 01:32 AM
Bartoli.


2007 talking about two slams, but she only competed in three. That's pretty good in my opinion.

Oh, and here I thought 2007 was her year of dominance. :weirdo:

Elegante
Nov 14th, 2009, 01:37 AM
If Justine didn't dominate in 2007, tell me who did? SMH.

Denise4925
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:03 AM
I'm not making illogical arguments, and 2007 was far from Justine's only dominate year, in 2006 she finished #1, won RG, and was the first player to make 4/4 finals in a long time. In 2003 she also finished #1 and won two majors. Serena has 2002 mainly when she dominated tennis and for years that's all you guys had either, besides two AO wins in the middle until late 08. Serena has done incredibly well at the majors over the past year, but dominate she has not. If you're talking about us clinging to 2007, then you cling to 2002. I on the other hand compliment Serena when she's dominating and what she is good at, I'm not so blindly biased to Justine that I'm incapable of seeing the other side.

It's my opinion that you are. Yes, she did finish No. 1 in '06, but she was far from dominant. Amelie and Maria owned her in '06. And LOL, Serena and Venus made 4/4 in a row between RG '02 and AO '03. But, the difference between Serena and Justine in that respect is that Serena won all of those finals. That's dominance. Hell, Dinara made three or four slam finals, as did Kim Cljisters. Big deal if you can't win them.

Serena dominated tennis '02 and '03 up until the US Open when she didn't play because she had surgery. She has dominated tennis in slams 2008 and 2009. I'm not clinging to just 2002. I'm clinging to 11 slam titles and counting. I'm not blindly biased one way or the other. Facts are facts. If making excuses and side-steps in order to prove Justine's dominance, you're as guilty of it regarding Justine as any Serena fan is.

I'm sorry but Justine has the best backhand in women's tennis, and Johnny Mac and plenty of other tennis expects agree on that notion. Justine has consistency, better hands, volleys, and backhand to Serena's power,serve,determination. I personally don't think Serena has much finesse, I mean she's gotten better with her slice and I'm proud of her for that, but she's not a very technical player.

:lol: I'm sorry but she doesn't. And no, John McEnroe has not agreed with that. On the contrary, he has said the exact same thing I've said about her backhand, i.e. that it's not that great. That the only thing special about it is that it's one-handed. The only person that raves about Justine's backhand is Martina Nav and Mary Carillo. Pam Shriver and Mary Joe Fernandez agree with Johnny Mac.

:lol: Serena dominates Justine on backhand. The only thing that troubles Serena is that sometimes she doesn't concentrate on her footwork, i.e. doesn't take the small steps to get into position. She has the most beautiful technique in the history of womens tennis on her serve. So what are you talking about?

In terms of not winning on other surfaces up until 07, that's not even a legitimate argument since they didn't play between 04-07. You can say what you want to about Justine beating Serena, but it almost went 4/4 that year for Justine. She almost embarrassed Serena at Miami and there was nothing wrong with her there. RG she shamed her. Wimbledon, I watched that match live and recently and yes Serena was hindered by her backhand, but that was it (to me this the only match your argument has any standing). There was nothing wrong with Serena at the US Open, despite what you might say. She just got beat. At least I'm willing to acknowledge when Justine gets beat, instead of making excuses. Justine can beat Serena on any surface, on any day, especially if she returns with the dominating form she had before. You can spin it any way you want to, but until 2010 it's all opinion.

It's a very valid argument, especially if you're going to argue that Justine is a better tennis player than Serena. They've played 13 matches against each other and of those 13 matches, she's only beaten Serena twice on any other surface other than clay and three out of those six matches she won went three sets.

Do you mean that Serena EMBARRASSED Justine at Miami? Because Justine has never beaten Serena in Miami even in her "year of dominance". :confused: Shamed Serena at RG, 6-3 6-4? :weirdo: No honey, shaming is what Serena did to her in Miami 6-2 6-0. :lol:

Serena was not in form at the US Open '07. She was coming back from recovering from that injury she incurred at Wimbledon and she had not played a match between the US Open and Wimbledon. So, yeah that was one of the times Justine could beat her on a surface other than clay. :shrug: It's a fact. I don't care if you think they are excuses, because it's the truth. You can choose to believe it or not. :shrug: And no, if Serena is healthy and in form, Justine cannot beat her on any surface. Serena is the better player and the best player of her generation.

You seem to be spinning some yarn as well, my friend. :lol:

I think if they play it will go back and forth, but just for future reference: just because Serena loses doesn't mean you have to blame the alignment of the stars, or that if she wins, she's playing amazing godly tennis. It's not black and white. There's a lot of in between with Serena's play, as any other, and Justine deserves every ounce of credit for her wins.

I can do whatever I want. And if she cheats to win or if Serena is not at her best, she doesn't deserve jack shit. :lol: If she beats a healthy and in form Serena on Serena's best surface, I will give her credit. But, that's a very big "if" to fill. :wavey:

Denise4925
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:11 AM
If Justine didn't dominate in 2007, tell me who did? SMH.

I didn't say she didn't dominate in '07 in the smaller tournaments, but of the slams she competed in, she only won 2. That's not dominance, in my opinion. Especially when you can't beat Bartoli, who Venus OWNED in the final. Serena and Venus each won a slam in the year of Justine's "dominance" so please. :rolleyes:

Elegante
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:20 AM
Justine against players in 2007

Kuznetsova 3-1
Mauresmo 2-0
Jankovic 7-0
Chakvetadze 2-0
Serena 3-1
Ivanovic 3-0
Vaidisova 2-0
Bartoli 2-1
Venus 1-0
Sharapova 1-0

How is that not dominance? No one in 2007 beat Justine more than once. Combine loses to this whole pool only three and in 1 she had 2 matchpoints, one set led a set and a break...

The Witch-king
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:28 AM
BUt she can? She beat Serena there already and has taken a convincing set off Venus who was in her prime.

so what? You can say the same thing about Jill Craybas and Alla Kudrayavtseva respectively.

Elegante
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:31 AM
They have not made two finals and two other semis... Justine is not a rollover auto win for either sister.

The Witch-king
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:44 AM
I agree that Serena has weapons that Justine does not posses: Serve, Power, but Serena also has a significant height and body advantage naturally, so just the fact that Justine can hold her own with what she has and beat Serena to me states a lot. When a player is naturally the physical under dog but can use technique, tennis smarts, and her superior backhand to dominate play, that says something. This is why I think Justine is the better player, because if she was as tall and big as Serena, it would be game over.

The one thing the baffles me is, you guys always forget to acknowledge the natural advantage Serena has, she is so powerful, and serves so well, she should always win. Yet, when she's up against someone who has an all court game and has a little bit of power mixed in those weapons don't always win her the match. From a physical stand point Serena should never lose to Justine, but she does because Justine is the better player. She has less and makes more out of it.

i don't understand why people say this. being 5'6 is not some sort of disability or THAT big of a difference from 5'9, so i don't see why Justine should be praised for being competetive with her slightly taller foes. If you've played tennis you'll know that how good you are depends more on technique and fitness than anything i.e. You can be a tall, muscular person but not a very good tennis player if you don't have good technique. Serena's serve doesn't come from being this gigantic black woman with an unfair advantage. It's her perfect technique and thinking brain that contribute to the accurate placement and intelligent choice of shot. If it was due to her big muscles/height/unfair advantage then my god why don't Safina, Sharapova, jankovic, ivanovic, azarenka etc have amaze serves?? And this applies to the rest of her game. But ofcourse you refuse to give Serena credit for anything other than her physical abilities. Suprise suprise.
Also being smaller is advantageous in the speed/movement department esp if you consider Serena's footwork woes of 07. So maybe we should praise Serena for leading the head to head with someone with such a huge unfair physical advantage!!!

The Witch-king
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:50 AM
They have not made two finals and two other semis... Justine is not a rollover auto win for either sister.

i hate to sound like darrinbaker but Nobody Is.

This is professional sports. If players are "rollover wins" we might as well not bother having matches at all. Anyone can lose to anyone at any given point in time if they lose the wrong points, so i don't see why having beaten WS once or twice should make Ju special in anyones eyes.

Elegante
Nov 14th, 2009, 03:14 AM
Justine and Serena are still the best players of this time...

The Witch-king
Nov 14th, 2009, 03:24 AM
Justine and Serena are still the best players of this time...

Venus is better than both of them combined !!!(if there's no second set lapse and/or tie-break :sobbing:)

Shi Feng
Nov 14th, 2009, 03:35 AM
How will the Kim/Justine Rivalry evolve? Kim is stronger than before, but Serena is not consistent on tour (only strong in GS). I think Kim will be a more difficult player for Justine.

Denise4925
Nov 14th, 2009, 03:53 AM
Venus is better than both of them combined !!!(if there's no second set lapse and/or tie-break :sobbing:)

:lol: That was cute.

Denise4925
Nov 14th, 2009, 03:54 AM
Justine against players in 2007

Kuznetsova 3-1
Mauresmo 2-0
Jankovic 7-0
Chakvetadze 2-0
Serena 3-1
Ivanovic 3-0
Vaidisova 2-0
Bartoli 2-1
Venus 1-0
Sharapova 1-0

How is that not dominance? No one in 2007 beat Justine more than once. Combine loses to this whole pool only three and in 1 she had 2 matchpoints, one set led a set and a break...

I repeat. I didn't say she didn't dominate in '07 in the smaller tournaments, but of the slams she competed in, she only won 2. That's not dominance, in my opinion. Especially when you can't beat Bartoli, who Venus OWNED in the final. Serena and Venus each won a slam in the year of Justine's "dominance" so please. :rolleyes:

Arnian
Nov 14th, 2009, 05:02 AM
Ok Denise, so Serena lost the 2007 US Open because she was just coming back from time off/injury? This is your line of thinking correct. Well, this does not apply to Serena, especially considering she won the AO that same year coming back from a much longer time off. So, clearly if she puts her mind to it, that doesn't apply to her, so stop making excuses.

In terms of Justine size, the reason people mention it, is because she doesn't have the height to have a nice serve. She can't get the amount of velocity on her serve like Serena can. She also has a lot smaller of a wingspan than Serena, Venus, Sharapova etc because of her size. It automatically makes her an under dog. Now the brilliance of Serena's serve is the technique and the concealment of it, and it is the best serve in the women's game hands down. I fully agree on that.

LOL ^ Denise Justine had a divorce to deal with and didn't even play the AO that year, so what's the point in mentioning that against Justine, and yeah the loss to Bartoli was weird, but it's not like Bartoli can't beat a top player occasionally, she beat Venus this year.

Elegante
Nov 14th, 2009, 05:11 AM
I repeat. I didn't say she didn't dominate in '07 in the smaller tournaments, but of the slams she competed in, she only won 2. That's not dominance, in my opinion. Especially when you can't beat Bartoli, who Venus OWNED in the final. Serena and Venus each won a slam in the year of Justine's "dominance" so please. :rolleyes:

Okay well since by your definition only Serena has dominated in this era with Justine the the next closest

Roookie
Nov 14th, 2009, 06:03 AM
I repeat. I didn't say she didn't dominate in '07 in the smaller tournaments, but of the slams she competed in, she only won 2. That's not dominance, in my opinion. Especially when you can't beat Bartoli, who Venus OWNED in the final. Serena and Venus each won a slam in the year of Justine's "dominance" so please. :rolleyes:

:help:

2 slams + 1 YEC + 7 titles = dominance.

Shi Feng
Nov 14th, 2009, 06:14 AM
I repeat. I didn't say she didn't dominate in '07 in the smaller tournaments, but of the slams she competed in, she only won 2. That's not dominance, in my opinion. Especially when you can't beat Bartoli, who Venus OWNED in the final. Serena and Venus each won a slam in the year of Justine's "dominance" so please. :rolleyes:

I think 2007 can be Justine's dominant year, though not so dominant as those in 1990s when GOATs like Graf and Seles were at their peak.

DOUBLEFIST
Nov 14th, 2009, 06:36 AM
Okay well since by your definition only Serena has dominated in this era with Justine the the next closest

That's pretty accurate. :shrug:

Arnian
Nov 14th, 2009, 09:16 AM
:help:

2 slams + 1 YEC + 7 titles = dominance.

Yes it does and if it was Serena with a similar season, Denise would be touting her dominance. It's just a bias towards Justine, and it's illogical.

Matt01
Nov 14th, 2009, 10:55 AM
I repeat. I didn't say she didn't dominate in '07 in the smaller tournaments, but of the slams she competed in, she only won 2. That's not dominance, in my opinion. Especially when you can't beat Bartoli, who Venus OWNED in the final. Serena and Venus each won a slam in the year of Justine's "dominance" so please. :rolleyes:


So what does this say about Serena who this year only won 2 Slams plus the YEC as well but didn't "dominate" in any of the "smaller" tournaments? What a miserable, poor year must Serena have had in 2009 :lol:

Volcana
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:17 PM
Why do people keep bringing the Miami 08 QF match up? That result IMHO is an anomaly. Henin mentally checked out at the end of 2007. Why do people keep bringing up the Miami 08 QF? Because it was played. Because, Henin has never acknowledged being injured at the time. Because HENIN has never said she 'mentally checked out at the end of 2007' (to my knowledge.)

One could, as easily, say Henin quit BECAUSE Serena embarassed her so badly at Miami. I don;t believe that, but there are many facts to support that conclusion as any other.


I'm gonna take Henin out of the discussion for a second. Is 'greater' better demonstrated by careers like Serena or BJK, long careers of high achievement, frequently interrupted by injury, or by careers like Maureen Connolly or Monica Seles, with a relatively short period of literally historic dominance? Serena has won eleven slam singles titles over twelve years. As unusual as the 'eleven slam singles titles part is', the 'over twelve years' part is just as notable.


On the players with the really insane numbers of slam singles titles (Court, Graf, Evert, Wills-Moody, Navratilova) have done that. Henin's a great player, but it's really two different kinds of careers. Personally, I hope Henin comes back better than ever. She's a player who combines creativity, pace, and thinking in a way that very few of the current players do. That alone is a reason to hope for her success.

Direwolf
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:23 PM
their matches needs more finals...
and more tiebreaks...
!!!
hope it evolves that way

Ferg
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:24 PM
Why are people still trying to argue with Denise? :scratch:

Direwolf
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:28 PM
more back and forth please.

Ntour
Nov 14th, 2009, 02:40 PM
the arguing in this thread is pointless.

both players are great champions, I expect their matches will be fairly split (justine having the advantage on slower surfaces, and serena on the faster) and I think any Serena fan who thinks serena isn't going to have a lot of trouble with Justine is sadly mistaken.

Arnian
Nov 14th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Why do people keep bringing up the Miami 08 QF? Because it was played. Because, Henin has never acknowledged being injured at the time. Because HENIN has never said she 'mentally checked out at the end of 2007' (to my knowledge.)

One could, as easily, say Henin quit BECAUSE Serena embarassed her so badly at Miami. I don;t believe that, but there are many facts to support that conclusion as any other.


I'm gonna take Henin out of the discussion for a second. Is 'greater' better demonstrated by careers like Serena or BJK, long careers of high achievement, frequently interrupted by injury, or by careers like Maureen Connolly or Monica Seles, with a relatively short period of literally historic dominance? Serena has won eleven slam singles titles over twelve years. As unusual as the 'eleven slam singles titles part is', the 'over twelve years' part is just as notable.


On the players with the really insane numbers of slam singles titles (Court, Graf, Evert, Wills-Moody, Navratilova) have done that. Henin's a great player, but it's really two different kinds of careers. Personally, I hope Henin comes back better than ever. She's a player who combines creativity, pace, and thinking in a way that very few of the current players do. That alone is a reason to hope for her success.

I think that Justine got beat that day, end of story, just like Sharapova got embarrassed by Davenport 6-0,6-0 at Indian Wells on 05. It just happens. I don't care about it because I think it's a fluke and an outlier score. I don't make excuses for her, because Serena deserves her credit, but for me personally I do think she was mentally checked out by then. I do however 100% disagree with the notion that she retired because of her play, that's far from true, I think the logical explanation would be her play went down because she was unhappy.

Serena's career has been successful, and she has had a lot of success in the later part of her career now, 08-09. Justine has several years left of tennis to compete and make double digits at the slams. Which I still feel she will accomplish.

G1Player2
Nov 15th, 2009, 07:07 AM
Ok Denise, so Serena lost the 2007 US Open because she was just coming back from time off/injury? This is your line of thinking correct. Well, this does not apply to Serena, especially considering she won the AO that same year coming back from a much longer time off. So, clearly if she puts her mind to it, that doesn't apply to her, so stop making excuses.

In terms of Justine size, the reason people mention it, is because she doesn't have the height to have a nice serve. She can't get the amount of velocity on her serve like Serena can. She also has a lot smaller of a wingspan than Serena, Venus, Sharapova etc because of her size. It automatically makes her an under dog. Now the brilliance of Serena's serve is the technique and the concealment of it, and it is the best serve in the women's game hands down. I fully agree on that.

LOL ^ Denise Justine had a divorce to deal with and didn't even play the AO that year, so what's the point in mentioning that against Justine, and yeah the loss to Bartoli was weird, but it's not like Bartoli can't beat a top player occasionally, she beat Venus this year.

That's EXACTLY what happened re: the bold. Serena Williams was out of commission that entire summer because of the thumb and calf injury she sustained at Wimbledon that year against Hantuchova. She didn't practice most of that summer and didn't start to train until a couple of weeks before the Open. Before that, she had a splint on her thumb for 6 weeks. She was in good shape at Wimbledon but there was no way she was going to stay at that same fitness level by having almost 2 months off after that. I assume she could have picked up a few pounds especially not being able to practice with that injury and she wasn't nearly as fit at the Open as she was at Wimbledon.

Also, you can't compare that to the Austrailian Open because Serena was fit when she entered the tournament. She had time to prepare and work on her fitness and her game as a whole. She didn't have a serious injury holding her back unlike she did right before the Open. They aren't comparable at all since at least Serena was able to practice intensively without dealing with a nagging injury.

winchester
Nov 15th, 2009, 09:46 AM
That's EXACTLY what happened re: the bold. Serena Williams was out of commission that entire summer because of the thumb and calf injury she sustained at Wimbledon that year against Hantuchova. She didn't practice most of that summer and didn't start to train until a couple of weeks before the Open. Before that, she had a splint on her thumb for 6 weeks. She was in good shape at Wimbledon but there was no way she was going to stay at that same fitness level by having almost 2 months off after that. I assume she could have picked up a few pounds especially not being able to practice with that injury and she wasn't nearly as fit at the Open as she was at Wimbledon.

Also, you can't compare that to the Austrailian Open because Serena was fit when she entered the tournament. She had time to prepare and work on her fitness and her game as a whole. She didn't have a serious injury holding her back unlike she did right before the Open. They aren't comparable at all since at least Serena was able to practice intensively without dealing with a nagging injury.

Injury or not, Henin was the only one who could stop Serena, we both know if it wasn't for Henin, Serena would have probably won US in 2007, but this year Henin was just too good for her, I mean, she beat her 3 times in a row, how dare you not give credit to Henin, the only time Serena beat Henin in 2007 was because Henin choked in Miami final, Henin was clearly better than Serena in 2007, injury or not.

winchester
Nov 15th, 2009, 09:52 AM
I think that Justine got beat that day, end of story, just like Sharapova got embarrassed by Davenport 6-0,6-0 at Indian Wells on 05. It just happens. I don't care about it because I think it's a fluke and an outlier score. I don't make excuses for her, because Serena deserves her credit, but for me personally I do think she was mentally checked out by then. I do however 100% disagree with the notion that she retired because of her play, that's far from true, I think the logical explanation would be her play went down because she was unhappy.

Serena's career has been successful, and she has had a lot of success in the later part of her career now, 08-09. Justine has several years left of tennis to compete and make double digits at the slams. Which I still feel she will accomplish.

I agree about the Sharapova vs Davenport part, but the thing is Sharapova clearly proved she was off that day, after this defeat she always beat Davenport, and their matches were very close, just like they used to be, 2005 was a fluke that's for sure, but about Henin vs Serena we will have to see their next meetings, I know Serena won't pummel her like she did in 2008, but maybe Serena will still have the edge, because for what I remember, Serena had many answers to beat Henin that day.

Galsen
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:23 AM
Injury or not, Henin was the only one who could stop Serena, we both know if it wasn't for Henin, Serena would have probably won US in 2007, but this year Henin was just too good for her, I mean, she beat her 3 times in a row, how dare you not give credit to Henin, the only time Serena beat Henin in 2007 was because Henin choked in Miami final, Henin was clearly better than Serena in 2007, injury or not.

just like she only beat Serena when she was injured or came back from injury:wavey:

Vaidisova Ruled
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:38 AM
One could, as easily, say Henin quit BECAUSE Serena embarassed her so badly at Miami. I don;t believe that, but there are many facts to support that conclusion as any other.

Serously, Stop.

Everyone knows that HENIN this quitter and cheater quit because the fucking Maria Sharapova gave her the biggest beatdown of ALL TIME when she won 64 60 at a slam !!!!! Maria Sharapova is the only reason why Justine left. She was just so fucking afraid of Maria, she couldn't even sleep, so she decided to put an end to her career.

And guess what, as soon as Maria got her injury and when Maria left for 10 months, Justine came back !!!!! Can't you see it :eek::eek::eek:???????? this is so clear now. Justine was so afraid of Maria and she came back just when Maria was down. But you know what? It's not a surprise coming from a cheater also know as "da quit".

But Maria now has a better serve, and she will be the one who will end Justine's career, once again.

So volcana, come on.

Galsen
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:39 AM
Serously, Stop.

Everyone knows that HENIN this quitter and cheater quit because the fucking Maria Sharapova gave her the biggest beatdown of ALL TIME when she won 64 60 at a slam !!!!! Maria Sharapova is the only reason why Justine left. She was just so fucking afraid of Maria, she couldn't even sleep, so she decided to put an end to her career.

And guess what, as soon as Maria got her injury and when Maria left for 10 months, Justine came back !!!!! Can't you see it :eek::eek::eek:???????? this is so clear now. Justine was so afraid of Maria and she came back just when Maria was down. But you know what? It's not a surprise coming from a cheater also know as "da quit".

But Maria now has a better serve, and she will be the one who will end Justine's career, once again.

So volcana, come on.

I like it

Petkorazzi
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:53 AM
I read the whole thread and the only highlight is the Rena fans patheticness (Denise topping the list :worship:). :lol:

spencercarlos
Nov 15th, 2009, 01:10 PM
oh really so it's Serena's fault if she retired?
okay we can go on that way
Justine won USO 03 and AO 04 when Serena was not there:wavey:
I can go on if you want.
At least Serena doesn't runnaway when she feels she might lose one of her title
Shut up and get over it. It was not Justine´s fault EITHER that Serena could not play any more tournaments after Wimbledon 2003. Besides Henin led the head to head for that particular year against Serena.

You Serena fans are so hypocritical.

terjw
Nov 15th, 2009, 01:20 PM
I think Serena will play 2010 at her 2009 level. Awesome serve. At her best at slams. But footwork still a weakness.

So to me - it's really whether Justine can recapture her 2006 and 2007 level of dominance. My guess is she can't reach that level but who knows or has any idea until we see her playing.

One thing I do discount as having any significance in this speculation is Serena beating a motiveless Justine at Miami in 2008 a month before Justine retired saying she had lost interest in tennis. Justine was slipping down the pecking order before that defeat and round about that time was probably playing like the #6 best player in the world if that despite her #1 ranking.

Galsen
Nov 15th, 2009, 03:07 PM
Shut up and get over it. It was not Justine´s fault EITHER that Serena could not play any more tournaments after Wimbledon 2003. Besides Henin led the head to head for that particular year against Serena.

You Serena fans are so hypocritical.

stfu when Juju's fans say Serena won GS b/c she retired it's okay but when we say that it's not
and we are hypoctitical

Watching
Nov 15th, 2009, 05:34 PM
Ok Denise, so Serena lost the 2007 US Open because she was just coming back from time off/injury? This is your line of thinking correct. Well, this does not apply to Serena, especially considering she won the AO that same year coming back from a much longer time off. So, clearly if she puts her mind to it, that doesn't apply to her, so stop making excuses.

In terms of Justine size, the reason people mention it, is because she doesn't have the height to have a nice serve. She can't get the amount of velocity on her serve like Serena can. She also has a lot smaller of a wingspan than Serena, Venus, Sharapova etc because of her size. It automatically makes her an under dog. Now the brilliance of Serena's serve is the technique and the concealment of it, and it is the best serve in the women's game hands down. I fully agree on that.

LOL ^ Denise Justine had a divorce to deal with and didn't even play the AO that year, so what's the point in mentioning that against Justine, and yeah the loss to Bartoli was weird, but it's not like Bartoli can't beat a top player occasionally, she beat Venus this year.

No. No. No.

Everyone is given the body they are given. Serena's own size has its negative points too - we have seen how easy it is for her fitness to deteriorate - lord knows she has been critized enough for it. Taller players suffer their own acute problems such as lack of athletic co-ordination which can hinder their movement greatly (e.g. Sharapova/Davenport). Yes Justine is small but she is certainly extremely fast, nimble and you do her a diservice by portraying her as a weak - she is one of the strongest players, able to deliver huge shots and serves.

Going by your theory it would make me equally correct in stating Fabrice Santoro is the greatest player of his generation and if he had the height/strength of Federer/Nadal he could be the greatest of all time.

So no, she is not the greatest player of her generation 'pound for pound' as remarkable as her acheivements are. We can only judge these things objectively and objectively Serena leads the head to head 7-6 and has a superior resume - it's not even that close anymore.

Also you cannot credit her wins over Serena and ability to beat her to her 'superior backhand' - the victories of either player have never come down to anything as simple as an advantage in backhand rallies. Neither backhand is distinguishably much better than the other. A true Juju fan would also know that her strength in dominating tennis matches comes from her forehand.

Arnian
Nov 15th, 2009, 07:43 PM
No. No. No.

Everyone is given the body they are given. Serena's own size has its negative points too - we have seen how easy it is for her fitness to deteriorate - lord knows she has been critized enough for it. Taller players suffer their own acute problems such as lack of athletic co-ordination which can hinder their movement greatly (e.g. Sharapova/Davenport). Yes Justine is small but she is certainly extremely fast, nimble and you do her a diservice by portraying her as a weak - she is one of the strongest players, able to deliver huge shots and serves.

Going by your theory it would make me equally correct in stating Fabrice Santoro is the greatest player of his generation and if he had the height/strength of Federer/Nadal he could be the greatest of all time.

So no, she is not the greatest player of her generation 'pound for pound' as remarkable as her acheivements are. We can only judge these things objectively and objectively Serena leads the head to head 7-6 and has a superior resume - it's not even that close anymore.

Also you cannot credit her wins over Serena and ability to beat her to her 'superior backhand' - the victories of either player have never come down to anything as simple as an advantage in backhand rallies. Neither backhand is distinguishably much better than the other. A true Juju fan would also know that her strength in dominating tennis matches comes from her forehand.

I never said Justine was "weak," or any of the sort. I'm simply pointing out the fact that the physical difference makes up a lot. When Justine retired, Serena had a slight edge over her in terms of grand slam wins, and of course now Serena has won three more majors. This has nothing to do with their rivalry or head to head, because Justine wasn't even playing.

If you knew anything about tennis, you'd understand the point that I'm making. When up against the wing span, and power of Venus, or Serena, that could be the deciding factor against any other player similar to Justine's size, but because she is so amazing she can fight through it. Is that the only reason Justine is the best in my eyes? No, she has an all court game to back it up, she's the best clay court player this decade, and there's other attributes, but it's one reason I admire her.

Also, I never said she just goes out onto the court and beats every player with her backhand, Serena has an awesome backhand as well. I just think Justine's is better, and her slice is better. It's true that yes her forehand, when hitting the right marks, is a deciding factor but her return of serve is also a big one.

Watching
Nov 15th, 2009, 09:24 PM
I never said Justine was "weak," or any of the sort. I'm simply pointing out the fact that the physical difference makes up a lot. When Justine retired, Serena had a slight edge over her in terms of grand slam wins, and of course now Serena has won three more majors. This has nothing to do with their rivalry or head to head, because Justine wasn't even playing.

If you knew anything about tennis, you'd understand the point that I'm making. When up against the wing span, and power of Venus, or Serena, that could be the deciding factor against any other player similar to Justine's size, but because she is so amazing she can fight through it. Is that the only reason Justine is the best in my eyes? No, she has an all court game to back it up, she's the best clay court player this decade, and there's other attributes, but it's one reason I admire her.

Also, I never said she just goes out onto the court and beats every player with her backhand, Serena has an awesome backhand as well. I just think Justine's is better, and her slice is better. It's true that yes her forehand, when hitting the right marks, is a deciding factor but her return of serve is also a big one.

Okay you didn't say weak but you implied Serena was just stronger naturally not through any athletic ability she may perhaps have learnt or the intense offcourt training she does? Justine has almost equal power, which both players get from their technique not necessarily their strength.

Bringing up Justine's retirement is irrelevant. I was talking about objectively naming the best player of this generation which is easily Serena. Also your claims that Justine is the more talented player don't match that category nor the head to head which Serena leads, and again, is the only objective measure we can really use to decide who is the better player.

Also I do know alot about tennis, but thanks for the pathetic jibe. I understand the advantages of a wingspan but I pointed out that being bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. Each body size has its different advantages and disadvantages for tennis which players have to manage individually.

Arnian
Nov 15th, 2009, 10:08 PM
Okay you didn't say weak but you implied Serena was just stronger naturally not through any athletic ability she may perhaps have learnt or the intense offcourt training she does? Justine has almost equal power, which both players get from their technique not necessarily their strength.

Bringing up Justine's retirement is irrelevant. I was talking about objectively naming the best player of this generation which is easily Serena. Also your claims that Justine is the more talented player don't match that category nor the head to head which Serena leads, and again, is the only objective measure we can really use to decide who is the better player.

Also I do know alot about tennis, but thanks for the pathetic jibe. I understand the advantages of a wingspan but I pointed out that being bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. Each body size has its different advantages and disadvantages for tennis which players have to manage individually.

Sorry for making the jibe (you made one yourself^), but the reason I brought up Justine's retirement is because she gave up any chance of passing Serena in the majors. My only hope now, is she makes double digits. Serena has been the most successful player this decade, I have no issue saying that. All credit to her for that.

I do not think that both are on equal footing powerwise, because often times the William sisters are clocked hitting groundstrokes as hard as men do, now that doesn't say Justine lacks power. She has plenty of power (testimate to her skills) but she also doesn't have WS's kind of power.

In terms of their head2head they are pretty much 50/50, Serena has one win up but it's not a huge lead.

Denise4925
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:22 PM
Ok Denise, so Serena lost the 2007 US Open because she was just coming back from time off/injury? This is your line of thinking correct. Well, this does not apply to Serena, especially considering she won the AO that same year coming back from a much longer time off. So, clearly if she puts her mind to it, that doesn't apply to her, so stop making excuses.

Serena always plays a warm up to the AO. She hadn't had a match between Wimbledon and US Open and she was recovering from injury. She's not usually recovering from injury going into Oz and as I said before, she always plays a warm-up tournament before. So, your argument is invalid.

In terms of Justine size, the reason people mention it, is because she doesn't have the height to have a nice serve. She can't get the amount of velocity on her serve like Serena can. She also has a lot smaller of a wingspan than Serena, Venus, Sharapova etc because of her size. It automatically makes her an under dog. Now the brilliance of Serena's serve is the technique and the concealment of it, and it is the best serve in the women's game hands down. I fully agree on that.

So being an underdog makes her the better player? :lol:

LOL ^ Denise Justine had a divorce to deal with and didn't even play the AO that year, so what's the point in mentioning that against Justine, and yeah the loss to Bartoli was weird, but it's not like Bartoli can't beat a top player occasionally, she beat Venus this year.

Serena and Venus have had to deal with the killing of their sister, so can we just write off all of the years they've been mourning since her killing?

Regarding Bartoli, I haven't seen her beat any top player at a slam other than Justine. :tape:

Denise4925
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:26 PM
I think 2007 can be Justine's dominant year, though not so dominant as those in 1990s when GOATs like Graf and Seles were at their peak.

Oh I agree. I think '07 should be Justine's dominant year. But it wasn't all that. It wasn't as if it was overwhelming dominance like a Serena '02/'03 year or Graf, Seles, Navratilova dominance. That's what they seem to be making it out to be. :shrug:

Denise4925
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:26 PM
Yes it does and if it was Serena with a similar season, Denise would be touting her dominance. It's just a bias towards Justine, and it's illogical.

:bs:

Denise4925
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:27 PM
So what does this say about Serena who this year only won 2 Slams plus the YEC as well but didn't "dominate" in any of the "smaller" tournaments? What a miserable, poor year must Serena have had in 2009 :lol:

We are not saying she dominated this year. :rolleyes:

Njay16
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:29 PM
Serena always plays a warm up to the AO. She hadn't had a match between Wimbledon and US Open and she was recovering from injury. She's not usually recovering from injury going into Oz and as I said before, she always plays a warm-up tournament before. So, your argument is invalid.



So being an underdog makes her the better player? :lol:



Serena and Venus have had to deal with the killing of their sister, so can we just write off all of the years they've been mourning since her killing?

Regarding Bartoli, I haven't seen her beat any top player at a slam other than Justine. :tape:

Well she did beat JJ at the Aussie last year when she was ranked number one. :lol: I think a lot of people forget about the death of their sister andthe impact it had on them. It really is one of the least talked about personal stories in the history of women's tennis IMO.

Denise4925
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:35 PM
Okay you didn't say weak but you implied Serena was just stronger naturally not through any athletic ability she may perhaps have learnt or the intense offcourt training she does? Justine has almost equal power, which both players get from their technique not necessarily their strength.

Bringing up Justine's retirement is irrelevant. I was talking about objectively naming the best player of this generation which is easily Serena. Also your claims that Justine is the more talented player don't match that category nor the head to head which Serena leads, and again, is the only objective measure we can really use to decide who is the better player.

Also I do know alot about tennis, but thanks for the pathetic jibe. I understand the advantages of a wingspan but I pointed out that being bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. Each body size has its different advantages and disadvantages for tennis which players have to manage individually.

:worship::worship::worship:

Denise4925
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:37 PM
I read the whole thread and the only highlight is the Rena fans patheticness (Denise topping the list :worship:). :lol:

And your major contribution to the thread is attacking Serena fans and particularly me. :yeah:

Moving on...:drive:

Denise4925
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:39 PM
Well she did beat JJ at the Aussie last year when she was ranked number one. :lol: I think a lot of people forget about the death of their sister andthe impact it had on them. It really is one of the least talked about personal stories in the history of women's tennis IMO.

Oh I forgot about that.

MH0861
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:54 PM
I just looked up Justine's 2007, I have to say she had a spectacular year. From RG onwards, she went 41-1 :eek: Winning 2 slams, the YEC, two Tier Is and two big Tier IIs.

I don't foresee Justine coming back with nearly as much immediate tenacity or success as Clijsters, but it will definitely be a more exciting season for the WTA in 2010.

Matt01
Nov 15th, 2009, 11:59 PM
We are not saying she dominated this year. :rolleyes:


Fact is that Justine dominated pretty much the whole year 2007 and Serena didn't dominate 2009 at all. She hardly even made it to #1 even though Henin (and Clijsters for the majority of the year, too) were absent. And besides I fail to see what any of this has to do with the question of the threadstarter.

Denise4925
Nov 16th, 2009, 12:19 AM
Fact is that Justine dominated pretty much the whole year 2007 and Serena didn't dominate 2009 at all. She hardly even made it to #1 even though Henin (and Clijsters for the majority of the year, too) were absent. And besides I fail to see what any of this has to do with the question of the threadstarter.

For the dumb and illiterate:
We are not saying she dominated this year. :rolleyes:

Matt01
Nov 16th, 2009, 12:21 AM
For the dumb and illiterate:
We are not saying she dominated this year. :rolleyes:


I repeat: Serena didn't dominate in 2009. :p

And who is "we"? :rolleyes:

Caillou
Nov 16th, 2009, 02:04 AM
Can't wait for this battle to unfold. Serena (and Venus) kick her ass!

Brooks.
Nov 16th, 2009, 05:17 AM
What if: Australian Open 2010 Rd. 1 Serena Williams vs. Justine Henin :tape:

Roookie
Nov 16th, 2009, 05:21 AM
What if: Australian Open 2010 Rd. 1 Serena Williams vs. Justine Henin :tape:

Justine def. Serena 7-6 6-7 7-6(9). :drool:

Stamp Paid
Nov 16th, 2009, 05:27 AM
Justine def. Serena 7-6 6-7 7-6(9). :drool:oh Id rather her be banned from the Australian Open than have that happen :lol::lol:

moby
Nov 16th, 2009, 05:34 AM
oh Id rather her be banned from the Australian Open than have that happen :lol::lol:It won't happen... That kind of score can't happen at the AO.

Roookie
Nov 16th, 2009, 05:44 AM
It won't happen... That kind of score can't happen at the AO.

:lol: you're right. Correction: Justine def. Serena 7-6 6-7 9-7. :silly:

Arnian
Nov 16th, 2009, 06:29 AM
[QUOTE=Denise4925;16819508] Serena always plays a warm up to the AO. She hadn't had a match between Wimbledon and US Open and she was recovering from injury. She's not usually recovering from injury going into Oz and as I said before, she always plays a warm-up tournament before. So, your argument is invalid.


She played a very short warm up, that consisted of her losing early, so I don't think it helped her much there. But I'm done arguing about this lol, I'll just wait till next year and we can proceed to argue again when they actually play.

Human Nature
Nov 16th, 2009, 08:03 AM
I think it is very relevant to bump threads containing questions we couldnt answer to back then , the ones like " Will Justine pass over serena with 9 GS at the end of 2008 ..?" or something like that , so that we can finally answer to the question ...

.. i read things like this " justine will have 9 GS while serena will stay with 8 i am sure about that..." looool how ridiculous ...! justine Henin was having a great year in 2007 , suddenly serena couldnt win another GS anymore ?

...lol people are so sure of themselves and never, never, never learn from previous experiences above all when it comes to serena Williams ..ununderstandable...!, that is like they never saw her play before 2007...how pathetic ..

Just to say that dont be angry if this thread is bumped in the next months , we need that to answer to questions , and please dont escape with pathetic sentences like " how annoying to bump so old threads like that ;.." its logical like that which are annoying...

Denise4925
Nov 16th, 2009, 06:42 PM
oh Id rather her be banned from the Australian Open than have that happen :lol::lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

Denise4925
Nov 16th, 2009, 06:44 PM
She played a very short warm up, that consisted of her losing early, so I don't think it helped her much there. But I'm done arguing about this lol, I'll just wait till next year and we can proceed to argue again when they actually play.

Losing early but getting in at least three matches and she wasn't coming off of an injury. Every little bit of match play helps.

Petkorazzi
Nov 17th, 2009, 09:11 AM
And your major contribution to the thread is attacking Serena fans and particularly me. :yeah:

Moving on...:drive:
I didn't mean to be contributive because my post had nothing to do with the topic, while it was your contribution that made me laugh. :lol:

Caralenko
Nov 17th, 2009, 09:24 AM
:lol: you're right. Correction: Justine def. Serena 7-6 6-7 9-7. :silly:

In the third round. Justine will defeat Marion Bartoli 0-6 7-5 13-11 in the first round. Then 2R [WC]Justine Henin def. [Q] Brie Whitehead (on a 16 match winning streak, winning Auckland and qualifying for AO)

1R - Justine def. Marion 0-6 7-5 13-11
2R - Justine def. Brie 0-6 6-0 6-0
3R - Justine def. Serena 7-6(14) 6-7(34) 9-7
4R - Justine def. Venus 0-6 7-6(12) 6-0
QF - Clijsters def. tired Justine 7-6(75) 7-6(1)

Petersmiler
Nov 17th, 2009, 09:46 AM
Denise, seriously girl, you need to get out more. I can't believe I rarely come in here anymore and, when I return, I find you having precisely the same stupid arguments as before I left. Does it ever occur to you that no matter how much you argue, some people will hold a different opinion to you? Do you actually believe that your debating skills are that strong that you will change someone elses opinion with them? Are you like this in real life? Do you spend your life arguing for the sake of it? I do hope not and that this forum is your outlet for anger that you simply cannot release in the real world. If you do speak to people in the same way you speak to people here then I seriously think you need help.

In with anger, out with love......

Arnian
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:02 PM
Denise, seriously girl, you need to get out more. I can't believe I rarely come in here anymore and, when I return, I find you having precisely the same stupid arguments as before I left. Does it ever occur to you that no matter how much you argue, some people will hold a different opinion to you? Do you actually believe that your debating skills are that strong that you will change someone elses opinion with them? Are you like this in real life? Do you spend your life arguing for the sake of it? I do hope not and that this forum is your outlet for anger that you simply cannot release in the real world. If you do speak to people in the same way you speak to people here then I seriously think you need help.

In with anger, out with love......

Denise is not an angry person. Is she frustrating when it comes to not giving Justine any credit? Yes lol, but she isn't a nasty or angry person. She argues because she believes in Serena passionately (sometimes a little blindly :p), but that doesn't mean she's wrong for it. Do I wish she was more positive about Justine and stopped bringing up old issues? Yes, but that's Denise and she is who she is.

<3 Denise ^_^

sweetpeas
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Thats so nice!Your' a nice person to Arnian,i like you very much!:wavey::bounce::cool:

Denise4925
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Denise, seriously girl, you need to get out more. I can't believe I rarely come in here anymore and, when I return, I find you having precisely the same stupid arguments as before I left. Does it ever occur to you that no matter how much you argue, some people will hold a different opinion to you? Do you actually believe that your debating skills are that strong that you will change someone elses opinion with them? Are you like this in real life? Do you spend your life arguing for the sake of it? I do hope not and that this forum is your outlet for anger that you simply cannot release in the real world. If you do speak to people in the same way you speak to people here then I seriously think you need help.

In with anger, out with love......

Petersmiler, it seems your only goal these days when you do come into a thread that I'm in is to attack me personally. If you disagree with me, feel free to join the debate without personally attacking me. All this type of behavior does is show just how immature you are and just how much you lack in debating skills.

Seriously, are you blind or do you just refuse to see that I'm not arguing or debating with myself? Just like other people have and express their opinions, I am free to do so as well. The whole point of a forum is debating issues back and forth. It's not whether I can change the person's mind I'm debating. This is where you're off the mark in your knowledge of the art of debate. Debate is all about convincing your audience of your point of view, not your opponent in the debate.

So, unless you have something more substantive to add to the debate or the thread, I'd appreciate it if you'd direct your anger toward something more constructive. It falls on deaf ears in this direction.

P.S.
Did you seriously think your personal attack against me in this post would make me stop debating my opinion on this or any other matter in any other thread? No? So, what was your point? :) Oh, that's right. You were expressing your opinion. :yeah: Now, would you like to make the exchange between us more constructive and on topic?

Denise4925
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:18 PM
Denise is not an angry person. Is she frustrating when it comes to not giving Justine any credit? Yes lol, but she isn't a nasty or angry person. She argues because she believes in Serena passionately (sometimes a little blindly :p), but that doesn't mean she's wrong for it. Do I wish she was more positive about Justine and stopped bringing up old issues? Yes, but that's Denise and she is who she is.

<3 Denise ^_^

Just as you believe in Justine blindly in my opinion Arni, but you love her so what can I say? :shrug:

Love you anyway, though.
:hug: Arni. :kiss:

Denise4925
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:21 PM
I didn't mean to be contributive because my post had nothing to do with the topic, while it was your contribution that made me laugh. :lol:

Thanks for clarifying the obvious. :yeah: :weirdo: :tape::help::lol:

Matt01
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Yes lol, but she isn't a nasty or angry person.


I respectfully disagree.

AcesHigh
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:27 PM
I respectfully disagree.

Cosign

Denise4925
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:34 PM
I respectfully disagree.

Cosign

Wow big surprise. :rolleyes: http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/denise4925/violins.gif

DragonFlame
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:35 PM
Cosign

third signature. No offence, i've been having a lot of fun with passionate serenafans lately but denise just isn't someone i can cope with. :o

Denise4925
Nov 17th, 2009, 08:37 PM
third signature. No offence, i've been having a lot of fun with passionate serenafans lately but denise just isn't someone i can cope with. :o

Another big surprise. How old are you people? :lol:

:haha: Who asked you to cope with me? But, I guess since you can't that puts you at a disadvantage. :lol:

DragonFlame, I have to PM your post to some people who may not see this. It's hilarious. :haha: It's been a while since I've seen that much gall. :lol: So much arrogance for such a small minded person.

Arnian
Nov 17th, 2009, 11:59 PM
I respectfully disagree.

I know you and others do, but I think in way Denise is misinterpreted. I do however think it's wrong for someone to attack her personally, when she doesn't do that. Surely you agree with this matt?

Matt01
Nov 18th, 2009, 12:40 AM
Surely you agree with this matt?


Normally, yes.

But I don't think that she is misinterpreted.

sammy01
Nov 18th, 2009, 12:50 AM
third signature. No offence, i've been having a lot of fun with passionate serenafans lately but denise just isn't someone i can cope with. :o

i agree, some serena crazies are funny or you can have a conversations with them. denise is not one of those, she is beyond the pale in that she has absolutely no reasoning skills, she has her opinions and they are never going to budge and she will do her uttermost to push them on anyone.

i had to put her on ignore months ago.

G1Player2
Nov 18th, 2009, 06:32 AM
i agree, some serena crazies are funny or you can have a conversations with them. denise is not one of those, she is beyond the pale in that she has absolutely no reasoning skills, she has her opinions and they are never going to budge and she will do her uttermost to push them on anyone.

i had to put her on ignore months ago.

:cuckoo:

DOUBLEFIST
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:54 AM
You know, every now and then, there is this utterly foolish piling on of Denise. I simply don't get it. Denise argues passionately for her faves just like everyone else does around her. Rarely does she grant a quarter - which around here is perfectly fair. However, I think it's the fact that she DOESN'T grant a quarter that has some of your panties all twisted.

But why should she let up? Why should she relent when this is a place DESIGNED to argue a point. There are a lot of people around here who give passionate, well reasoned arguments for their faves (agree or disagree). Denise is one of them.

You should be more concerned with posters who go around obsessively stalking other posters simply to provoke PERSONAL arguments. Matt01 stalking reetard comes to mind. To me that's more agregious(sp) than simply arguing your case and defending yourself when attacked - and, believe it or not, I like Matt01 in a thoroughly entertained kind of way.

Some of you, in your knee-jerk piling on of Denise show yourselves to be the very thing you accuse Denise of being, ie, so overly invested in this forum that you get yourselves all knotted up over someone simply doing that for which these boards were created - stating and, perforce, arguing their opinion.

Now, let the bad reps flow...

Matt01
Nov 18th, 2009, 11:14 AM
But why should she let up? Why should she relent when this is a place DESIGNED to argue a point. There are a lot of people around here who give passionate, well reasoned arguments for their faves (agree or disagree). Denise is one of them.



No, she is not one of them because her arguments are far from being "well reasoned". She even admitted in the past that she thinks that Justine hits lucky shots.



You should be more concerned with posters who go around obsessively stalking other posters simply to provoke PERSONAL arguments. Matt01 stalking reetard comes to mind. To me that's more agregious(sp) than simply arguing your case and defending yourself when attacked - and, believe it or not, I like Matt01 in a thoroughly entertained kind of way.


Nice that you like me so much (unfortunately I can't say the same about you) but I'm hardly stalking that poster. And IMO one should be concerned about that poster since he loves to troll around by insulting players he doesn't like left and right, calling them with derogatory names and by bringing things like the "hand-incdent" into every thread without reason. THAT is trolling.

DOUBLEFIST
Nov 18th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Nice that you like me so much (unfortunately I can't say the same about you) :sad:

Just call me a fan of yours.

You're my favorite buffoon.

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 18th, 2009, 07:11 PM
:sad:

Just call me a fan of yours.

You're my favorite buffoon.

:lol:

The Witch-king
Nov 18th, 2009, 07:49 PM
This topic has taken a bizarre turn.

I honestly haven't noticed anything extreme about Denise's posts... Anyway not anymore extreme than most of the posters here who are ALL very opinionated and assertive.
Is it the content of her arguments that offends those who claim to be offended? Would you prefer if she was passionate about another player? I say this because to me there's little difference between her and, say, the people dedicated to bashing Williams like The Kaz and Matt... But you don't see essays and "co-sign" this or that about them :( :confused: plus to me it's much worse to have your opinions based primarily on a NEGative stance, i.e. I hate Serena, rather than a positive one (defending Serena).

Ok not sure that made sense....

BlameSerena
Nov 18th, 2009, 07:58 PM
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j319/Elisser/number1.gif

This is all that matters. Juju can get it, too. Serena will be waiting at the top :wavey:.

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:11 PM
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j319/Elisser/number1.gif

This is all that matters. Juju can get it, too. Serena will be waiting at the top :wavey:.

bouncing breasts?? :scratch:











:p

Matt01
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:12 PM
This is all that matters. Juju can get it, too. Serena will be waiting at the top :wavey:.


If Serena doesn't defend her AO title, it will probably be Safina waiting at the top :wavey:

Brooks.
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:14 PM
I'm about to make a youtube video...

LEAVE DENISE ALONE!

BlameSerena
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:15 PM
bouncing breasts?? :scratch:






:p
:lol: Yeah bouncing breasts. JH has always had her eye on getting some of those. :p
If Serena doesn't defend her AO title, it will probably be Safina waiting at the top :wavey:
Well Safina could lose early as well. A lot of things could happen starting with Sydney...which Serena is planning on winning :p.

Denise4925
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:16 PM
You know, every now and then, there is this utterly foolish piling on of Denise. I simply don't get it. Denise argues passionately for her faves just like everyone else does around her. Rarely does she grant a quarter - which around here is perfectly fair. However, I think it's the fact that she DOESN'T grant a quarter that has some of your panties all twisted.

But why should she let up? Why should she relent when this is a place DESIGNED to argue a point. There are a lot of people around here who give passionate, well reasoned arguments for their faves (agree or disagree). Denise is one of them.

You should be more concerned with posters who go around obsessively stalking other posters simply to provoke PERSONAL arguments. Matt01 stalking reetard comes to mind. To me that's more agregious(sp) than simply arguing your case and defending yourself when attacked - and, believe it or not, I like Matt01 in a thoroughly entertained kind of way.

Some of you, in your knee-jerk piling on of Denise show yourselves to be the very thing you accuse Denise of being, ie, so overly invested in this forum that you get yourselves all knotted up over someone simply doing that for which these boards were created - stating and, perforce, arguing their opinion.

Now, let the bad reps flow...

Thanks Boo. :hug: Those types of people are not worth paying any attention to, because they are hypocrites. I just report their personal attacks and let the admins and mods handle it. But, I appreciate your defense. :hug:

Matt01
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:17 PM
Well Safina could lose early as well. A lot of things could happen starting with Sydney...which Serena is planning on winning :p.


When a lot of things could happen then why are you saying that it will be Serena who will be waiting at the top? :p

Denise4925
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:17 PM
:sad:

Just call me a fan of yours.

You're my favorite buffoon.

:spit: :lol:

BlameSerena
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:19 PM
When a lot of things could happen then why are you saying that it will be Serena who will be waiting at the top? :p

The same reason some folks are predicting that JH will be back in her old form and zip through the field...it's a prediction, a guess, assumption, etc.............

Any further questions?
















Don't answer that.

Matt01
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:19 PM
Thanks Boo. :hug: Those types of people are not worth paying any attention to, because they are hypocrites. I just report their personal attacks and let the admins and mods handle it. But, I appreciate your defense. :hug:


:lol: I guess that's also why you were banned before and not me? :tape:

Denise4925
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:19 PM
I'm about to make a youtube video...

LEAVE DENISE ALONE!

This topic has taken a bizarre turn.

I honestly haven't noticed anything extreme about Denise's posts... Anyway not anymore extreme than most of the posters here who are ALL very opinionated and assertive.
Is it the content of her arguments that offends those who claim to be offended? Would you prefer if she was passionate about another player? I say this because to me there's little difference between her and, say, the people dedicated to bashing Williams like The Kaz and Matt... But you don't see essays and "co-sign" this or that about them :( :confused: plus to me it's much worse to have your opinions based primarily on a NEGative stance, i.e. I hate Serena, rather than a positive one (defending Serena).

Ok not sure that made sense....

Love you guys. :hug:

Matt01
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:23 PM
The same reason some folks are predicting that JH will be back in her old form and zip through the field...


I consider myself to be a really big fan of Henin and even I'm not making such bold predictions.

I think a little less arrogance when it comes to our faves would suit us all quite well.

The Witch-king
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:29 PM
:lol: I guess that's also why you were banned before and not me? :tape:

classy.

BlameSerena
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:37 PM
justine wasnt interested in miami 2008 match.
Funny you say that. Serena wasn't interested at the USO, FO, and only partly interested in Wimbledon (2007 of course. Ya know, JuJu's year.)
That can work both ways.

:p

Worst rivalry ever, I don't even remember one match where both players played well at the same time:o
Agreeeeeeeeeed 10000%
Yes and Serena took her to three sets playing on one leg and with one hand. :rolleyes:
:lol:
Who won that round? Just a one word answer please. :lol:
:spit:
i hate to sound like darrinbaker but Nobody Is.

This is professional sports. If players are "rollover wins" we might as well not bother having matches at all. Anyone can lose to anyone at any given point in time if they lose the wrong points, so i don't see why having beaten WS once or twice should make Ju special in anyones eyes.

:rolls:

Serously, Stop.
Everyone knows that HENIN this quitter and cheater quit because the fucking Maria Sharapova gave her the biggest beatdown of ALL TIME when she won 64 60 at a slam !!!!! Maria Sharapova is the only reason why Justine left. She was just so fucking afraid of Maria, she couldn't even sleep, so she decided to put an end to her career.

And guess what, as soon as Maria got her injury and when Maria left for 10 months, Justine came back !!!!! Can't you see it :eek::eek::eek:???????? this is so clear now. Justine was so afraid of Maria and she came back just when Maria was down. But you know what? It's not a surprise coming from a cheater also know as "da quit".

But Maria now has a better serve, and she will be the one who will end Justine's career, once again.

So volcana, come on.
:lol::lol:

BlameSerena
Nov 18th, 2009, 08:45 PM
I consider myself to be a really big fan of Henin and even I'm not making such bold predictions.

I think a little less arrogance when it comes to our faves would suit us all quite well.

I'm not making bold predictions for Serena either. I didn't say Serena would win or lose, just that she would be waiting at the top for JH :lol:. Even if she loses she will keep at it until she comes out victorious. That is when I shall gather all the Serena fans, the millions and millions around the world, and march in unison, singing the old freedom song, "Victory shall be mine."

:bounce:

Okay, I digress.