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View Full Version : Can Sharapova win Roland Garros 2010?


s_j
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:22 PM
Now I know all Sharapova fans (including me) believe she can win the French Open - not only because she's a fighter and can beat anyone on her day - but also because of this mysterious Grand Slam pattern that has come to pass... Wimbledon 04, US Open 06, Australian Open 08.... Roland Garros 2010?

But, seriously, can she win it next year?

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:25 PM
If she gets an easy draw. There are soo many better clay-courters than her on tour though.

Ferg
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:26 PM
If she gets a Wickmayer draw to the final where she plays Petrova.

frenchie
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:26 PM
No way!
and that would be very sad for tennis

Her clay game and movement are awful
Her QF or SF happened only because she's a good fighter, NOT because of her game

and I don't say that because I don't like her!

It's like asking if Coetzer could win Wimbledon

hankqq
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:30 PM
She'll need the best draw ever :lol:

it doesn't look good that she hasn't reached a final at any red clay event yet :shrug: I'm pretty sure she has reached no more than 5 sfs on red clay in her career...once she runs into a player who can run down her shots for an entire match, she's usually unable to hit through them. Safina did it 2X to her at RG and she's not even the fastest player on tour.

Uranium
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:36 PM
LOL. No.

Vaidisova Ruled
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:41 PM
With her awful serve, she was in QF this year. So who knows?
And she was close to beat Safina in 2008, who is 2 time RG finalist...

Lulu.
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:47 PM
She can, anyone can. But no she's not winning it next year.

debby
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:49 PM
With her awful serve, she was in QF this year. So who knows?
And she was close to beat Safina in 2008, who is 2 time RG finalist...

With her awful serve, she reached only the second round at Wimbledon where she won in 2004 and grass is her best surface, according to her and most of her fans.

I don't think serve is a major factor for clay, you have much better odds to win on clay than on another surface with a pathetic serve.

Broseghini
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Yeahh :D

Keegan
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:51 PM
If she constantly fights, then yes.
Besides she has to, otherwise the pretty pattern will be ruined.

Mistress of Evil
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:57 PM
Hopefully, she will and the mission will be completed.

The Dawntreader
Nov 10th, 2009, 07:59 PM
She can't beat ANYONE on clay. I think that's one of a multitude of reasons why she can't.

At her most mobile in '05/06, she was still woefully exposed on the surface. Particularly against Justine, where she looked so out of her depth, unable to offer token resistance really.

Vaidisova Ruled
Nov 10th, 2009, 08:16 PM
With her awful serve, she reached only the second round at Wimbledon where she won in 2004 and grass is her best surface, according to her and most of her fans.

I don't think serve is a major factor for clay, you have much better odds to win on clay than on another surface with a pathetic serve.
No. I really doubt her fans would say this. Maybe a couple years ago

DiscoStick
Nov 10th, 2009, 08:23 PM
No.

watchdogfish
Nov 10th, 2009, 08:27 PM
Maybe, but she has less of a chance now Justine's back.

Eduardo Oliveira
Nov 10th, 2009, 10:08 PM
yes :yeah:
If she plays her best tennis, she can do it.

Uranus
Nov 10th, 2009, 10:14 PM
Never.

cyannnnn
Nov 10th, 2009, 10:21 PM
it's depend of her

markdelaney
Nov 10th, 2009, 10:23 PM
Don't see it personally but good luck to her.

Bobisa
Nov 10th, 2009, 11:18 PM
I think NO!!!

Hardiansf
Nov 10th, 2009, 11:34 PM
If she gets a Wickmayer draw to the final where she plays Petrova.
R1 : (9) M. Sharapova def A. Pavlyuchenkova 6-3 6-3
R2 : (9) M. Sharapova def R. Vinci 6-2 7-5
R3 : (9) M. Sharapova def (20) A. Mauresmo 6-7 (4) 6-2 6-1
R4 : (9) M. Sharapova def (5) E. Dementieva 7-5 6-2
QF : (9) M. Sharapova def (8) K. Clijsters 6-4 4-6 6-4
SF : (9) M. Sharapova def (18) N. Petrova 6-4 6-4
F : (9) M. Sharapova def (3) D. Safina 5-7 6-3 6-1

It CAN happens :angel:, but I doubt it. :o
Henin, Clijsters, Sveta, Jankovic, Williams, and Williams have a better chance.
But we'll see :cool:

Yorker
Nov 10th, 2009, 11:42 PM
i don't think she stands a chance of getting past an henin. i'm not gunna say kim cause she lost to lindsay on clay and that basically speaks for itself, but yeah she's had some good runs there but i don't think she'll ever win it, she seems to run out of gas there at one point or another.

V's a star
Nov 11th, 2009, 12:56 AM
I want Venus vs Maria RG:bounce:

If Vee can get her butt past the 3rd round :rolleyes: It wud be interesting seeing them play eachother on red dirt

Volcana
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:25 AM
With an average draw? No.

Even in a best case scenario, her shoulder is stil screwed up. Plus Henin and Clijsters back, Wozniacki, Azarenka, Lisicki a year better, Zvonareva, Serena ... Serena, no.

I'd expect Venus to beat her on clay.

AnomyBC
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:36 AM
It's definitely possible. She did very well in this year's French Open despite the fact that it was her first slam coming back from her shoulder injury, and of course it would fit her pattern of winning a new slam every two years, which might be a strong motivator for her to win this particular French Open specifically. Also, I think her shoulder injury may actually be helping her clay court game in a way in that it's forcing her away from playing the kind of tennis that's centered around having a big serve. She's going need to improve her movement and keep her double faults down, but that's certainly within the realm of possibility. And then of course she needs a great draw. The ideal draw for her would be one where she's on the opposite half as Henin, Kuznetsova, Serena and Safina. This wouldn't be possible with the current rankings, but it would be possible if Wozniacki moves to #2 before then, which is also within the realm of possibility. Or alternately, she could have one of them in her half but they could lose before meeting her. And then ideally she would play someone like Safina in final---or perhaps Wozniacki or Azarenka if they can make it that far. But yeah, to summarize, she would need to play well and have a lot of luck, but it would be far from the strangest thing that's happened in women's tennis recently.

AnomyBC
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:19 AM
Henin, Clijsters, Sveta, Jankovic, Williams, and Williams have a better chance.
But we'll see :cool:

I definitely don't think Venus has a better chance than Sharapova and I think Jankovic's chances are only very slightly better. This is how I'd rank the players in terms of their likelihood to win the French:

1. Henin
2. Kuznetsova
3. Safina
4. Serena
5. Clijsters
6. Dementieva
7. Jankovic
8. Sharapova
9. Azarenka
10. Wozniacki
11. Ivanovic
12. Venus

It will be interesting to come back to this later and see how accurate it turns out to be :)

Donny
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:23 AM
I definitely don't think Venus has a better chance than Sharapova and I think Jankovic's chances are only very slightly better. This is how I'd rank the players in terms of their likelihood to win the French:

1. Henin
2. Kuznetsova
3. Safina
4. Serena
5. Clijsters
6. Dementieva
7. Jankovic
8. Sharapova
9. Azarenka
10. Wozniacki
11. Ivanovic
12. Venus

It will be interesting to come back to this later and see how accurate it turns out to be :)

Absurd. She's abysmal in finals and as of now, she's horrible in every match she plays. On top of that she's injured. There's no objective reason to have her in the list of top five contenders.

AnomyBC
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:47 AM
Absurd. She's abysmal in finals and as of now, she's horrible in every match she plays. On top of that she's injured. There's no objective reason to have her in the list of top five contenders.

She was a finalist the last 2 years. Does that not count for anything? Not to mention the fact that she was #1 for so long. And all the players are injured, not just her. Also, many, if not most, players who lost their first three GS finals have gone on to eventually win won (Clijsters, Lendl, Evert, Agassi, Novotna, etc.)

GracefulVenus
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:50 AM
She's a champion, anything is possible...................but No, I don't think so.

Roookie
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:53 AM
When was the last time she won a red clay tournament?.

dabossK
Nov 11th, 2009, 04:03 AM
Does anyone think Radwanska has a chance (with improved serve/power)????

saska77
Nov 11th, 2009, 04:38 AM
Well she believes she can - I believe she can!

It will be hard work though...

But YES

Arnian
Nov 11th, 2009, 05:39 AM
Sharapova will never win the FO lol

HRHoliviasmith
Nov 11th, 2009, 05:55 AM
yes she can.

Pops Maellard
Nov 11th, 2009, 06:05 AM
I think if Ivanovic can win the FO, Maria can.

gc-spurs
Nov 11th, 2009, 07:58 AM
Venus and Maria for the finals!

Pops Maellard
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:09 AM
Venus and Maria for the finals!
Sheep and Hobbit land, and Rugby land. :haha: So true.

Dexter
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:26 AM
If Conchita pulled out a win in Wimbledon... :tape:

DS.Fan.
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:33 AM
Yes!:d

InsideOut.
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:42 AM
I think if Ivanovic can win the FO, Maria can.

Ana can hit through opponents even on clay; Maria can't.

gc-spurs
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:45 AM
Sheep and Hobbit land, and Rugby land. :haha: So true.

:):)

madmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:57 AM
well, if Serena managed to achieve this feat, Maria sure can do it as well...depends on her determination and healthiness of course

Lucemferre
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:09 AM
well, if Serena managed to achieve this feat, Maria sure can do it as well...depends on her determination and healthiness of course

Serena was moving 100 times faster than Maria can ever imagine in 2002.Wrong comparison. Maria's motivation can be Pierce. She isn't very fast and plays a similar game to Maria.

Pops Maellard
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:17 AM
Ana can hit through opponents even on clay; Maria can't.
Well, when she was a tennis player she could. :sobbing:

Nah, in all seriousness, I find this strange. Surely Ana doesn't have much more power than Maria. :confused:

InsideOut.
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:20 AM
Well, when she was a tennis player she could. :sobbing:

Nah, in all seriousness, I find this strange. Surely Ana doesn't have that much more power than Maria. :confused:

She does...at least the WTA's power index thing always said so. Especially on the forehand side.

Plus, Ana's kick serve (at her peak of course :rolleyes:) is better than Maria's.

winchester
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:27 AM
She does...at least the WTA's power index thing always said so. Especially on the forehand side.

Plus, Ana's kick serve (at her peak of course :rolleyes:) is better than Maria's.

As if the power index mean sth, last time I checked Mauresmo was on the top of this shit list.:lol: Sharapova hit harder than Ivanovic, way harder, FH and BH side, the thing is on clay Maria's movement is not good enough, all her game crumbles, her footwork is not that good, and I don't know but I've never seen Maria play her best on clay, she is always injured when she plays FO, too bad.

Pops Maellard
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:34 AM
As if the power index mean sth, last time I checked Mauresmo was on the top of this shit list.:lol: Sharapova hit harder than Ivanovic, way harder, FH and BH side, the thing is on clay Maria's movement is not good enough, all her game crumbles, her footwork is not that good, and I don't know but I've never seen Maria play her best on clay, she is always injured when she plays FO, too bad.
I don't know if Maria hits way harder on FH than Ana, backhand I'd say so. But either way Maria's forehand is still brutish. Yep it must be the movement. Cow on ice. :p

madmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:40 AM
She does...at least the WTA's power index thing always said so. Especially on the forehand side.

Plus, Ana's kick serve (at her peak of course :rolleyes:) is better than Maria's.

:lol:That's a big BS stat - no one else hits bigger on WTA tour than Masha, her groundstrokes are blistering fast, especially when she's returning serve:bounce: Ana is(or was?) a better player on clay thanks to her movement on it, not her groundstrokes...

Pops Maellard
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:44 AM
Thanks for the laugh :rolls: :spit:
What's so funny? It is true at least that there would be very few who could hit harder than Maria.

madmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:46 AM
Thanks for the laugh :rolls: :spit:

right...so tell me who hits harder and faster then:rolleyes: Must be WS then...

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:48 AM
What's so funny? It is true at least that there would be very few who could hit harder than Maria.

I had to laugh at him again for saying maria is as good on clay as Serena :rolls: :lol: . And I can think of a few who hit harder than Maria and not just on the ROS where you use opponent's pace.

winchester
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:51 AM
I had to laugh at him again for saying maria is as good on clay as Serena :rolls: :lol: . And I can think of a few who hit harder than Maria and not just on the ROS where you use opponent's pace.

On one shot, Serena hits harder than Maria and anyone else, on a consistent basis, Maria hits harder, the same goes for Venus and Davenport.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:56 AM
On one shot, Serena hits harder than Maria and anyone else, on a consistent basis, Maria hits harder, the same goes for Venus and Davenport.

You got that the other way. Maria hits as hard as n Serena on only one shot. The rest is Serena :wavey:

madmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:58 AM
You got that the other way. Maria hits as hard as n Serena on only one shot. The rest is Serena :wavey:

you've got no clue what are you talking about:wavey: Watch some of recent Masha matches and see how her penetrating her shots are...and to compare grinder like Dementieva to Maria in power:lol::lol::lol:

winchester
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:59 AM
You got that the other way. Maria hits as hard as n Serena on only one shot. The rest is Serena :wavey:

I don't think so, but whatever.

winchester
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:00 AM
Ofcourse the WS do :shrug: But then there are the other russians (namely - Sveta/Elena), most of them hit as hard or even harder than Masha. Then there are the comeback women - Mary and Alicia. Even Justine created tremendous raquet-head speed (especially on the forehand side)

And thanks for the laugh:lol:

winchester
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:07 AM
Yea this coming from the guy who thinks Maria is as good as Serena on clay :spit:

Seriously, Dementieva:lol: the only thing she can do against Sharapova is running and running:lol::lol::lol: she can't handle Maria's power, just like everytime they met, it was a beatdown.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:48 AM
Seriously, Dementieva:lol: the only thing she can do against Sharapova is running and running:lol::lol::lol: she can't handle Maria's power, just like everytime they met, it was a beatdown.

I thought it was a discussion of who hits harder on conistent basis as opposed to who is better against whom .

madmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:53 AM
I thought it was a discussion of who hits harder on conistent basis as opposed to who is better against whom .

are you arguing just for the sake of an argument or what?:lol: Just by mentioning Dementieva in your post you lost all the credibility - we could take you seriously if you said Kleybanova, who is indeed very powerful ground player and can blow anyone off the court on her day, but Elena?DDD And consistent power is one thing Maria is famous for - not her movement, net play or serve, but this facet of the game won her slams and titles.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:57 AM
are you arguing just for the sake of an argument or what?:lol: Just by mentioning Dementieva in your post you lost all the credibility - we could take you seriously if you said Kleybanova, who is indeed very powerful ground player and can blow anyone off the court on her day, but Elena?DDD And consistent power is one thing Maria is famous for - not her movement, net play or serve, but this facet of the game won her slams and titles.

:lol: So you think the others I mentioned hit harder than Maria , since no one is arguing about them. So I guess the statement 'Maria hits harder than anyone else' is indeed false.

:wavey:

Mashabator
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:08 AM
MARIA can definately win it BELIEVE!!

InsideOut.
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:10 AM
As if the power index mean sth, last time I checked Mauresmo was on the top of this shit list.:lol: Sharapova hit harder than Ivanovic, way harder, FH and BH side, the thing is on clay Maria's movement is not good enough, all her game crumbles, her footwork is not that good, and I don't know but I've never seen Maria play her best on clay, she is always injured when she plays FO, too bad.

BH, yes. Forehand...no. Ana's forehand is hit way harder than Masha's. Of course I agree that Maria has a severe confidence crisis on clay due to her horrible movement on it; she can't slide properly to save her life, which makes her exceedingly vulnerable to drop shots on clay.

Brαm
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:15 AM
No way

winchester
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:30 AM
I thought it was a discussion of who hits harder on conistent basis as opposed to who is better against whom .

I don't know what to say anymore, Sharapova hits harder than Serena on a consistent basis, and she is not the only one, you just don't want to admit that.

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:56 AM
With her awful serve, she reached only the second round at Wimbledon where she won in 2004 and grass is her best surface, according to her and most of her fans.

I don't think serve is a major factor for clay, you have much better odds to win on clay than on another surface with a pathetic serve.

ask safina :tape:

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 12:09 PM
I don't know what to say anymore, Sharapova hits harder than Serena on a consistent basis, and she is not the only one, you just don't want to admit that.

that's because serena learned how NOT to play just hitting every ball hard in an age where almost everyone can hit hard...but as you witnessed in the 2007 AO final, when both are playing power tennis on every ball, who comes out on top :) tell maria to try to hit as hard as serena was in 2002 on almost every shot

and why laugh at elena being a power player who hits as hard as maria? at this point she does...while maria hits flatter doesn't mean elena isn't hitting as hard...using their match-ups as a guage is bad since elena is a headcase against maria :shrug:

anywho...to answer the question: she'd have to have a draw work out perfectly in her favour or get those players to mentally implode...not impossible but the implosion of the likes of jh, serena, kim, jj, AND kuzzy (provided she has to go through at least 3 of them) would be highly unlikely when she has so many weakness they can all expose on clay...2010 may be unreasonable, but I won't say never

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 01:40 PM
Yea this coming from the guy who thinks Maria is as good as Serena on clay :spit:

Well, you claim that Slam results are unimpeachable proof of a player's abilities. And Sharapova's results at the French Open in recent years have been FAR better than Serena's, so that surely DOES make Sharapova the better clay-court player.

I would definitely say the Williams sisters and Sharapova are in the same tier on clay. None of the 3 have games suited to the surface, they're all terrible movers on it. Ivanovic is a far better player on clay than all of them; her games uses a lot more topspin and she's a very good slider. Ivanovic, Safina and Kuznetsova have proven themselves to have the games best-suited for clay in Henin's absence, but all 3 of them have such questionable mentalities that there's always going to be question marks hanging over them heading into a Slam.

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 01:56 PM
Well, you claim that Slam results are unimpeachable proof of a player's abilities. And Sharapova's results at the French Open in recent years have been FAR better than Serena's, so that surely DOES make Sharapova the better clay-court player.

I would definitely say the Williams sisters and Sharapova are in the same tier on clay. None of the 3 have games suited to the surface, they're all terrible movers on it. Ivanovic is a far better player on clay than all of them; her games uses a lot more topspin and she's a very good slider. Ivanovic, Safina and Kuznetsova have proven themselves to have the games best-suited for clay in Henin's absence, but all 3 of them have such questionable mentalities that there's always going to be question marks hanging over them heading into a Slam.

:weirdo: serena missed two years...and it's funny you have to say recent years, when you know that serena has a RG title :) serena and maria aren't in the same league on clay

but this isn't about serena and maria...although maria's path to that title may have to go through serena...but you can't put them in the same league when one clearly has better movement even if the sliding isn't perfect, and has found a way around trying to hit through all her opponents

madmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:03 PM
:weirdo: serena missed two years...and it's funny you have to say recent years, when you know that serena has a RG title :) serena and maria aren't in the same league on clay

but this isn't about serena and maria...although maria's path to that title may have to go through serena...but you can't put them in the same league when one clearly has better movement even if the sliding isn't perfect, and has found a way around trying to hit through all her opponents

what difference does it make if Serena ONCE was a better claycourt player than Maria? Surely the recent results don't legitimize this statement and Serena isn't getting any younger and fitter as the years go by. All Maria has to do is to find the proper balance between her aggressive gamestyle and specifics of clay play, maybe improve her net play, which she seems to be doing slowly ( she hit plenty volley winners on her way to Tokyo title). And most importantly of course, she has to stay healthy...

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:17 PM
Well, you claim that Slam results are unimpeachable proof of a player's abilities. And Sharapova's results at the French Open in recent years have been FAR better than Serena's, so that surely DOES make Sharapova the better clay-court player.

I would definitely say the Williams sisters and Sharapova are in the same tier on clay. None of the 3 have games suited to the surface, they're all terrible movers on it. Ivanovic is a far better player on clay than all of them; her games uses a lot more topspin and she's a very good slider. Ivanovic, Safina and Kuznetsova have proven themselves to have the games best-suited for clay in Henin's absence, but all 3 of them have such questionable mentalities that there's always going to be question marks hanging over them heading into a Slam.

what difference does it make if Serena ONCE was a better claycourt player than Maria? Surely the recent results don't legitimize this statement and Serena isn't getting any younger and fitter as the years go by. All Maria has to do is to find the proper balance between her aggressive gamestyle and specifics of clay play, maybe improve her net play, which she seems to be doing slowly ( she hit plenty volley winners on her way to Tokyo title). And most importantly of course, she has to stay healthy...



Are you guys really THAT stupid?

When Madmax said 'If serena could win it, Maria can too' it automatically meant he was comparing 2002rena to current Maria. And there is absolutely no comparison. The discussion was never about current rena, otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned 2002rena :shrug: But I guess you guys are used to twisting your own statements when you have nothign else to say.

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:18 PM
:weirdo: serena missed two years...and it's funny you have to say recent years, when you know that serena has a RG title :) serena and maria aren't in the same league on clay

I said recent years because we're discussing who the better play on clay is now. Why on earth would I bring in Serena's win there 8 years ago (when Maria was still in the juniors) when we're discussing who has a better chance to win in 2010?

And sorry, but Serena being a better mover than Maria on clay is purely your opinion, and one I believe to be false. I think they're both equally poor movers on clay. Off of clay, it's true that Serena is a better mover, but neither of them understand how to move on clay.

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:19 PM
Are you guys really THAT stupid?

When Madmax said 'If serena could win it, Maria can too' it automatically meant he was comparing 2002rena to current Maria. And there is absolutely no comparison.

But you then went on to state Serena is a far better player on clay than Maria today, when the evidence doesn't support this... at all.

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:22 PM
their only meeting on clay in 08 went to who again? and that was after maria's "goat" start to 08.... serena may not be getting any younger but her movement on clay still surpasses maria's...so if you want to go from 04, serena has: qf, miss, miss, qf, 3rd, qf...maria has qf, qf, 4th, sf, 4th, qf...not much different considering serena missed two years at RG and has at least made the qf, since 02, 4/5 times that she has played, while maria made the qf 4/6 times playing every year since 04 AND has a 1st rd lost in 03...so I don't get your argument :shrug: similar stats yet one has a RG title and you say maria is the better clay courter

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:24 PM
But you then went on to state Serena is a far better player on clay than Maria today, when the evidence doesn't support this... at all.

Where did I say today? You couldn't twist his words so you are trying to twist mine? :lol: The discussion *as started by madmax* was 'IF serena could win it, then Maria can too', and thats why I said Maria is not as good a claycourter as Serena. But I guess you are really that stupid :lol:

Try harder next time :wavey:

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:24 PM
I said recent years because we're discussing who the better play on clay is now. Why on earth would I bring in Serena's win there 8 years ago (when Maria was still in the juniors) when we're discussing who has a better chance to win in 2010?

And sorry, but Serena being a better mover than Maria on clay is purely your opinion, and one I believe to be false. I think they're both equally poor movers on clay. Off of clay, it's true that Serena is a better mover, but neither of them understand how to move on clay.

if serena is such a poor mover on clay, how comes she came the closest to beating sveta at RG this year?? serena may not slide perfectly but she's STILL a better mover on clay than maria...you may not like serena but damn :lol:

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:26 PM
their only meeting on clay in 08 went to who again?

It went to 3 sets when Sharapova was nursing a shoulder injury. But that didn't happen in a Slam, so it's no indication of anything anyway, right?

Again, this is an example of you trying to declare the rules dependent on whether it favours Serena. Every single year since 2004, when Sharapova and Serena have both played the FO, Sharapova has at least matched Serena's performance and often has exceeded it. How the hell can you claim it's preposterous that Sharapova is a better clay-court player based on that statistic?

youizahoe
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:27 PM
she can.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:27 PM
It went to 3 sets when Sharapova was nursing a shoulder injury. But that didn't happen in a Slam, so it's no indication of anything anyway, right?

Again, this is an example of you trying to declare the rules dependent on whether it favours Serena. Every single year since 2004, when Sharapova and Serena have both played the FO, Sharapova has at least matched Serena's performance and often has exceeded it. How the hell can you claim it's preposterous that Sharapova is a better clay-court player based on that statistic?

Now who is the one making up excuses and twisting rules?

(Ye sure she was nursing a shoulder injury, thats why she won the tournament right before charleston in 08)

Mistress of Evil
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:31 PM
Both Masha and Rena suck on clay and this discussion/argument you have is so childish that you can be taken for 8-year-olds.

Izzie.
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:31 PM
This is a stupid argument.
We all know clay is Maria's weakest surface. But it's also Serena's. This does not mean Maria cannot improve on it, or that she hasn't improved on it. Serena has won RG. Though their results are fairly similar at RG, this, to me, shows she is technically better on clay. I am a huge Sharapova fan and even I can see this. However, in terms of this year, no one can say who will have a better chance. Maria might improve greatly on clay or get a good draw.
But back to the topic of this thread-Yes, I think Sharapova can win RG 10. It is possible. She can work on her net game, her serve was looking better, etc. And a good draw goes a long way.

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:33 PM
Where did I say today? You couldn't twist his words so you are trying to twist mine? :lol: The discussion *as started by madmax* was 'IF serena could win it, then Maria can too', and thats why I said Maria is not as good a claycourter as Serena. But I guess you are really that stupid :lol:

Try harder next time :wavey:

Nice try, but, while the conversation may have started as a discussion about whether Maria is a better player than 2002 Serena (even that's up for debate), it evolved into a discussion about who was the better player on clay NOW. If I misunderstood you, then do you now admit that Serena is no better on clay than Sharapova at this time?


if serena is such a poor mover on clay, how comes she came the closest to beating sveta at RG this year?? serena may not slide perfectly but she's STILL a better mover on clay than maria...you may not like serena but damn

Duh, because it's Kuznetsova. She had that match won at 5-3 in the second set. I could argue the other way and say that, if Serena is such a good mover on clay, then how come she almost lost to Zakopalova and Martinez Sanchez.

madmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:34 PM
Both Masha and Rena suck on clay and this discussion/argument you have is so childish that you can be taken for 8-year-olds.

:worship:Exactly...only retards like a poster by this particular name can say Serena is superior to Masha on clay - she isn't and she never was for some years now, their equal results jsut confirm that.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:35 PM
Nice try, but, while the conversation may have started as a discussion about whether Maria is a better player than 2002 Serena (even that's up for debate), it evolved into a discussion about who was the better player on clay NOW. If I misunderstood you, then do you now admit that Serena is no better on clay than Sharapova at this time?



Its you guys who evolved it, talk about putting our foot in your own mouth :wavey:

Doc
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:39 PM
With a half-way decent draw, and the necessary luck, Maria can do it. She's better than most "clay" players on clay now. Of course with Kim and JuJu in the mix it will be tougher.

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:41 PM
Now who is the one making up excuses and twisting rules?
Not me. I have a consistent approach to whether context should be taken into account when analysing a result. Obviously injuries should be taken into account. (You'll remember that, on the first thread I made here, about Henin being better than Serena, I said the Wimbledon result isn't much of an indication due to Serena being injured.) On the other hand, people like you and ANARENA declare rules on what results should count based purely on whether they favour Serena. If Serena is injured, then the result doesn't count, but any injured opponents Serena beats and that counts as a legitimate result for Serena. Non-Slam results don't count, unless they're matches won by Serena. People like Henin should be forever persecuted for one slip-up, but Serena should get a pass for her far worse incident because she's Serena. I still can't figure out whether you guys are just trying to wind people up, or you're so deluded that you genuinely think your arguments are logically-sound.

(Ye sure she was nursing a shoulder injury, thats why she won the tournament right before charleston in 08)

LMAO. Yeah, Sharapova's injury was completely fictional. I guess she took 10 months out for the shiggles... maybe she was flogging a painfully bad fashion line or trying to launch an acting career that was clearly never gonna happen...

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:42 PM
Its you guys who evolved it, talk about putting our foot in your own mouth :wavey:

And...? That doesn't change the fact that, after the discussion had evolved to who was a better player on clay now, you said Serena, and that's what I took issue with.

Feyd
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:43 PM
With a good draw and with suitable preparation she might (not necessarily 2010 of course). But Maria always seems to pick up injury during clay season since 2006 and misses most of the preparation time for FO. Despite that, her results were not that bad (a SF and QF). But Henin, Clijsters and Kuznetsova will be the favourites in 2010.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:44 PM
And...? That doesn't change the fact that, after the discussion had evolved to who was a better player on clay now, you said Serena, and that's what I took issue with.

I said Serena when the issue was about the won who actually won RG in her prime. Show me where I said that Serena is way better than Maria after you guys turned the discussion to current form?

Seriously you need to stop making a fool of yourself over and over again :lol:

madmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:47 PM
I said Serena when the issue was about the won who actually won RG in her prime. Show me where I said that Serena is way better than Maria after you guys turned the discussion to current form?

Seriously you need to stop making a fool of yourself over and over again :lol:

well, you also said Dementieva hits as hard as Maria, so your opinion is really not worth that much:devil: And you have the nerve to tell people to stop clowning arround, when in fact you're being clowned yourself?:lol::lol:

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:49 PM
well, you also said Dementieva hits as hard as Maria, so your opinion is really not worth that much:devil: And you have the nerve to tell people to stop clowning arround, when in fact you're being clowned yourself?:lol::lol:

And even Anarena said that dementieva does hit consistenly as hard as Maria. Infact the guy who made a clown of himself is you , saying Current Maria is as good a claycourter as 2002rena :rolls: :lol: :lol:

Plus the fact that I gave you a list of players , which you couldn't deny , show that your statement about Maria hitting harder than anyone got owned :wavey:

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:49 PM
I said Serena when the issue was about the won who actually won RG in her prime. Show me where I said that Serena is way better than Maria after you guys turned the discussion to current form?

Seriously you need to stop making a fool of yourself over and over again :lol:

OK, so do you agree that Serena is now no better a player on clay than Sharapova?

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:51 PM
didn't maria declare herself a cow on ice?

youizahoe
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:51 PM
didn't maria declare herself a cow on ice?

And since when does clay equal ice?

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:52 PM
OK, so do you agree that Serena is now no better a player on clay than Sharapova?

Oh so now you are changing the subject huh?

madmax
Nov 11th, 2009, 02:53 PM
And even Anarena said that dementieva does hit consistenly as hard as Maria. Infact the guy who made a clown of himself is you , saying Current Maria is as good a claycourter as 2002rena :rolls: :lol: :lol:

Plus the fact that I gave you a list of players , which you couldn't deny , show that your statement about Maria hitting harder than anyone got owned :wavey:

wow, you're really a bigger clown than I thought:devil: Seems like you justify your nickname just fine - where and when did I compare 2002 Serena and Maria? Or are you once again putting words in my mouth and clowning yourself...Seriously, stop emarrassing yourself and do something fruitful with your life..

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:00 PM
Oh so now you are changing the subject huh?

How the hell am I changing the subject? Our whole argument is about whether you said Serena is a better player on clay. I asked you explicitly whether you believed it to be the case, and you dodged the question.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:03 PM
How the hell am I changing the subject? Our whole argument is about whether you said Serena is a better player on clay. I asked you explicitly whether you believed it to be the case, and you dodged the question.

Not for me, I only commented when he was comparing 200rena to Masha, I thought that was laughable, and I mentioned it . And then you decided to make a foold of yourself by making it look like it was about current form :lol:

Lulu.
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:05 PM
Serena on clay > Maria on clay

Maria hasn't even reached a final on red clay, let alone won one.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:05 PM
Maria hasn't even reached a final on red clay

Don't you know everything about them is about current form!! (According to which Dinara/Agnieszka/vika etc. >> Maria in Grass)

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:05 PM
Not for me, I only commented when he was comparing 200rena to Masha, I thought that was laughable, and I mentioned it . And then you decided to make a foold of yourself by making it look like it was about current form :lol:

OK, so then do you agree that Serena is now no better on clay than Sharapova? If the answer is yes you do agree, then we can end the argument right now. If the answer is no you don't agree, then why did you get so offended when I wasn't misrepresenting your opinion AT ALL?

Feyd
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:08 PM
Serena on clay > Maria on clay

Maria hasn't even been in a final on red clay, let alone won one.

Serena is hardly doing any better, she has not made into a red clay final since FO 2002.

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:08 PM
Don't you know everything about them is about current form!! (According to which Dinara/Agnieszka/vika etc. >> Maria in Grass)

Oh, my mistake, success from years and years ago is clearly the most important factor in assessing who will win an upcoming match. In that case, I guess we can agree that, next year at Wimbledon, Navratilova will be able to step out of the commentary box and beat Serena in a match.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:09 PM
OK, so then do you agree that Serena is now no better on clay than Sharapova? If the answer is yes you do agree, then we can end the argument right now. If the answer is no you don't agree, then why did you get so offended when I wasn't misrepresenting your opinion AT ALL?

Ok cool, so you do agree that you were maing a fool of yourself before.


(And I believe that the current veteran Serena is better than Maria on Clay (and she does lead the H2H on clay), just like I believe that Maria is better than Elena on Grass, despite the stats)

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:10 PM
Oh, my mistake, success from years and years ago is clearly the most important factor in assessing who will win an upcoming match. In that case, I guess we can agree that, next year at Wimbledon, Navratilova will be able to step out of the commentary box and beat Serena in a match.

There's a difference, Serena has shown that she still has the capactiy (by winning clay tournaments even after 2002) Navratilova hasn't.

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:13 PM
And I believe that the current verter serena is better than Maria on Clay

So your opinion is exactly what I said it was all along. And you were getting offended at me stating what your opinion was. And you're calling me a fool? Riiiiiiiiight.

Although to be fair, I'm just as much of a fool as you for wasting an hour of my life on such a petty argument.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:14 PM
So your opinion is exactly what I said it was all along. And you were getting offended at me stating what your opinion was. And you're calling me a fool? Riiiiiiiiight.

Although to be fair, I'm just as much of a fool as you for wasting an hour of my life on such a petty argument.

I was getting offended because you were taking my opinion out of context, since it was posted about the original statement. I wouldn;t have laughed if he had said that about current serena.

Nextime just try harder to look cool. Just asuming some stuff that I didn't even say is not going to cut it :wavey:

SAEKeithSerena
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:18 PM
of course she can, and i believe she will in a matter of years.

thegreendestiny
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:30 PM
Oh, my mistake, success from years and years ago is clearly the most important factor in assessing who will win an upcoming match. In that case, I guess we can agree that, next year at Wimbledon, Navratilova will be able to step out of the commentary box and beat Serena in a match.

Ok cool, so you do agree that you were maing a fool of yourself before.


(And I believe that the current veteran Serena is better than Maria on Clay (and she does lead the H2H on clay), just like I believe that Maria is better than Elena on Grass, despite the stats)

There's a difference, Serena has shown that she still has the capactiy (by winning clay tournaments even after 2002) Navratilova hasn't.

So your opinion is exactly what I said it was all along. And you were getting offended at me stating what your opinion was. And you're calling me a fool? Riiiiiiiiight.

Although to be fair, I'm just as much of a fool as you for wasting an hour of my life on such a petty argument.

I was getting offended because you were taking my opinion out of context, since it was posted about the original statement. I wouldn;t have laughed if he had said that about current serena.

Nextime just try harder to look cool. Just asuming some stuff that I didn't even say is not going to cut it :wavey:

Why don't you guys get a room or something. I'm sure you can both channel your energies into something that might actually make you feel good. :shrug:

Miss Atomic Bomb
Nov 11th, 2009, 03:33 PM
Why don't you guys get a room or something. :shrug:

No thanks, I am gay.

Ciarán
Nov 11th, 2009, 05:02 PM
Yes.

AcesHigh
Nov 11th, 2009, 05:23 PM
:lol:

no. And comparing Serena and Maria on clay is ridiculous. Serena would break her in half on clay

winchester
Nov 11th, 2009, 05:49 PM
:lol:

no. And comparing Serena and Maria on clay is ridiculous. Serena would break her in half on clay

Just like she did at Charleston:spit:

The Dawntreader
Nov 11th, 2009, 08:55 PM
Just like she did at Charleston:spit:

Third set much?

Donny
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:02 PM
OK, so then do you agree that Serena is now no better on clay than Sharapova? If the answer is yes you do agree, then we can end the argument right now. If the answer is no you don't agree, then why did you get so offended when I wasn't misrepresenting your opinion AT ALL?

Serena is a better player period than Maria. On medium paced hard courts, Maria's best surface, Serena owns her. And you think that switching to clay would help Maria's chances? She's slower than Serena, can't change direction nearly as well, as is currently incapable of a proper kick serve.

MaBaker
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:04 PM
No.Yes.Maybe.Off season thread.

Olórin
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:06 PM
Just like she did at Charleston:spit:

Exactly :yeah: Third consecutive match in which Serena gave Maria a breadstick :drool:

dsanders06
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:28 PM
Serena is a better player period than Maria. On medium paced hard courts, Maria's best surface, Serena owns her. And you think that switching to clay would help Maria's chances? She's slower than Serena, can't change direction nearly as well, as is currently incapable of a proper kick serve.

They are both equallly poor movers on clay. Seriously, please point out a single match on red clay where Serena has moved well in recent years.



Exactly Third consecutive match in which Serena gave Maria a breadstick

Two of them weren't at a Slam, so they don't count, right?

Craig.
Nov 11th, 2009, 09:57 PM
Third set much?

I don't deny Serena's great play in that final set, but Maria easily could've won 6-3 6-2. :shrug:

BUT yes, Serena is a better player than Maria and better on clay.

DOUBLEFIST
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:36 PM
I think Maria COULD win RG.

Personally, I think Maria will win RG BEFORE Juju wins Wimby.

Maria will need an awful lot of things to go her way on BOTH sides of the draw, though.

Dunlop1
Nov 11th, 2009, 10:40 PM
Maria can win RG
(if she doesn't face Serena and Justine and Clijsters and Kuznetsova).

Translation: No RG 2010 for Maria.

Elegante
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:36 PM
I don't deny Serena's great play in that final set, but Maria easily could've won 6-3 6-2. :shrug:

BUT yes, Serena is a better player than Maria and better on clay.

uh.. Maria choked the 1st, Serena choked the 2nd...They cancel out and it came down to the third where Maria was dismissed.

Vartan
Nov 11th, 2009, 11:38 PM
Why discuss this, let's wait and see what happens.

Craig.
Nov 12th, 2009, 12:48 AM
uh.. Maria choked the 1st, Serena choked the 2nd...They cancel out and it came down to the third where Maria was dismissed.

Uh, Serena was up an early break in the 2nd (like 2-0, 2-1). That's not a choke, that's barely a lead. Maria kinda took ahold of that set and led 5-2 with two breaks, she then wasted 3 SPs and got to 5-4 where she closed it out. If anything, Maria choked in both sets, but managed to win one of them.

winchester
Nov 12th, 2009, 06:35 AM
Serena is a better player period than Maria. On medium paced hard courts, Maria's best surface, Serena owns her. And you think that switching to clay would help Maria's chances? She's slower than Serena, can't change direction nearly as well, as is currently incapable of a proper kick serve.

Maria's best surface I'm sure is indoors, you can see how great she can play on those courts(YEC2006,2007). She played Serena just once on indoors.

Exactly :yeah: Third consecutive match in which Serena gave Maria a breadstick :drool:

It was a great battle, Maria had her chances to win in 2. And she knows it because she said so after the match.:)

Why discuss this, let's wait and see what happens.

So, I guess we can all leave this board:lol:

winchester
Nov 12th, 2009, 06:37 AM
Uh, Serena was up an early break in the 2nd (like 2-0, 2-1). That's not a choke, that's barely a lead. Maria kinda took ahold of that set and led 5-2 with two breaks, she then wasted 3 SPs and got to 5-4 where she closed it out. If anything, Maria choked in both sets, but managed to win one of them.

Exactly, and Serena didn't have any break in the second set, she had break points at 1-0, but Maria saved them.

Elegante
Nov 12th, 2009, 01:10 PM
She did have a break...

Sharapower
Nov 13th, 2009, 06:29 AM
YES, SHE CAN!

If she really sets it as a target and prepares accordingly, she definitely can do it. With the exception of Justine Henin (if she's there in RG '10 and at the top of her game) the current WTA clay-court "experts" are mental midgets, so despite Sharapova's red-clay technical deficit, Maria the fighter could always take the upper hand.

Strangely, in her 2009 GS appearances, it seemed to me it was at RG that she enjoyed herself the most and even more strangely the RG crowd seemed to develop an unexpected empathy for her.