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Jorn
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:38 AM
F.Pennetta (ITA) def. M.Oudin (USA) 7-5, 6-2 :)

Vinci/Errani d. Huber/King 4-6, 6-3, 11-9.


Rubber 4 was not played.

ce
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:40 AM
:yeah:

VIKA?
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:42 AM
FLAVIA:hearts:

congrats Italians:yeah:

Steff_forever
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:42 AM
wow Flavia :worship:

CONGRATS to the ITALIAN TEAM !!! :yeah:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:43 AM
Congrats Italy, beating France, Russia and USA:worship:

Melanie, cut down your dumb errors.;)
:hug:
Still upset that Alexa got in yesterday over Vania, not the wisest of decisions IMO. But oh well. There's always next year. And asking our girls outside the top 50 to beat the top 2 Italians in the top 20 on CLAY was too big of an ask for them:hug:

The Witch-king
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:45 AM
Good job maria joe hernandez

Wintermute
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:46 AM
Congrats Italy. They had a solid team and put together some impressive wins this year over very good squads.

Libertango
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:58 AM
WOW, what a year for Flavia!

Congrats Italy!!

lee station
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:58 AM
congrats italy.:D wow 3 0! :help:

G&R
Nov 8th, 2009, 12:08 PM
:worship: italian team :worship:

hammerhead
Nov 8th, 2009, 12:08 PM
Melanie 12 winners, 45 errors (again)

ElusiveChanteuse
Nov 8th, 2009, 12:12 PM
What a boring tie.:yawn:

Sharapova's_Boy
Nov 8th, 2009, 12:44 PM
:worship:

Poor Pushniackidin. :sobbing:

Golovinjured.
Nov 8th, 2009, 12:55 PM
Italy :worship:

Impossible task for the Americans, really.

BlameSerena
Nov 8th, 2009, 01:10 PM
:( Congrats to Italy but good fight by USA to even get this far :yeah:
They will learn and become a better team.

MBM
Nov 8th, 2009, 01:11 PM
excellent. so italy are fed cup #1 now?

!Gio!
Nov 8th, 2009, 01:12 PM
The 3-0 win was never in doubt! The Italians are way too good for this USA team! Fran never got to play Alexa but we might as well just call it 4-0:tape:!
The doubles will be more of a contest, maybe;)
Anyway great job Flavia, great job Italia!!! FORZA!!!

Libertango
Nov 8th, 2009, 01:13 PM
Melanie 12 winners, 45 errors (again)

OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHH

cn ireland
Nov 8th, 2009, 01:26 PM
Congrats to team Italy:).

olivero
Nov 8th, 2009, 01:36 PM
Forza Italia!
so happy for Fran and Flavia, congrats :)

thegreendestiny
Nov 8th, 2009, 01:43 PM
Russia :o. Should have won the SF tie. :o

GracefulVenus
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:04 PM
:rolleyes:

Derevko
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:05 PM
4-0 :worship:...

And Roberta Vinci has 14 win on 14 doubles match in Fed Cup :worship:

!Gio!
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:14 PM
4-0 :worship:...

And Roberta Vinci has 14 win on 14 doubles match in Fed Cup :worship:

Big Suprise:lol: Well played USA!:rolleyes:
Forza Italia!!!:devil:

Marcell
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:16 PM
Oudin blast for Williams sisters


Teenager Melanie Oudin aimed a veiled broadside at the absent Williams sisters after Italy completed an easy thrashing of the United States in the final of the Fed Cup on Sunday.

World number 11 Flavia Pennetta eased to a 7-5, 6-2 beating of 18-year-old Oudin to put the hosts into an unassailable 3-0 lead in the tie.

All three matches finished in straight sets with Italians Pennetta and Schiavone dropping a meagre total of five games in their second sets.

World number one Serena Williams and her sixth-ranked sister Venus opted to miss this tournament despite playing each other in the season-ending Tour Championships in Doha last weekend.

Serena then went to London to promote a book while her compatriots were forced to tackle the Italians with players ranked 49 and 132 in the world.

'For me, this is what I wanted. I wanted to come here. I wanted to play for my country,' said Oudin.

'I don't know, other people choose different things. Some people, I guess, didn't want to play as badly as I did.

'But I think that the team that we had here really wanted to be here. I think that was what should have happened.

'I mean, you don't want people here that don't want to be here.

'Next year we're gonna have people that want to be here again. That's what you want. You don't want people that don't want to be here or play for their country.

'Even if you lose, if you give it everything you have, then that's the best you can do.'

While the Americans' best two players, who have not played in the Fed Cup since 2007, decided to skip this event, it was clear how much winning meant to the Italians.

Pennetta described this victory as the 'perfect end to a great season' in which she also became the first ever Italian woman to reach the top 10 in the world.

'For me it's very important to be champion of the world in tennis,' she said.

'To represent your country is different. Usually you play for yourself and no-one cares but here it's totally different.'

Oudin was impressed by just how patriotic the Italian players are.

'I knew this coming into this Fed Cup that they have a real team. Every single one of them has played Fed Cup before,' she said.

'They all want to be here. I'm at tournaments and I always see them hanging out with each other and warming each other up and watching each other's matches and cheering for each other.

'So they are a real team and I think that's what's really helped them in this Fed Cup, this year.

'Their team effort, the team atmosphere, everything, they do it extremely well. I think that's a huge part of Fed Cup.'

Aaric
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:18 PM
Congrats

miffedmax
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:21 PM
Congrats, Italy.

Lena's bangs.

Illusionist
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:33 PM
Congrats Italy :woohoo:

hectopascal
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:39 PM
Oudin blast for Williams sisters

'For me, this is what I wanted. I wanted to come here. I wanted to play for my country,' said Oudin.

'I don't know, other people choose different things. Some people, I guess, didn't want to play as badly as I did.

'But I think that the team that we had here really wanted to be here. I think that was what should have happened.

'I mean, you don't want people here that don't want to be here.

'Next year we're gonna have people that want to be here again. That's what you want. You don't want people that don't want to be here or play for their country.


:eek: :tape: She was repeating herself so many times, sounds like a scorn woman. Would love to see a Serena vs Oudin match next year... love the drama!

hellas719
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:47 PM
excellent. so italy are fed cup #1 now?

Yes :help:
Even the FC is turning into a joke :o
How does Italy win when their highest ranked player is #11, while Russia has 4 players currently in the top 10 and doesn't win?
At least Italy won and not some country like Argentina that was in the WG this year with only 1 girl in the top 100 :o

Kim's_fan_4ever
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:48 PM
That's an awesome result :bounce:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:50 PM
Yes :help:
Even the FC is turning into a joke :o
How does Italy win when their highest ranked player is #11, while Russia has 4 players currently in the top 10 and doesn't win?
At least Italy won and not some country like Argentina that was in the WG this year with only 1 girl in the top 100 :o

So Fed Cup needs to be won by the top ranked players? USA made the final without a top 50 player, so if we would have won, you should be saying the same thing then.
Italy beat Russia.
R1 - F.PENNETTA (ITA) def. A.CHAKVETADZE (RUS)
6-4 6-0
R2 - F.SCHIAVONE (ITA) def. S.KUZNETSOVA (RUS)
1-6 6-2 6-3
R3 - S.KUZNETSOVA (RUS) def. F.PENNETTA (ITA)
6-0 6-3
R4 - F.SCHIAVONE (ITA) def. A.PAVLYUCHENKOVA (RUS)
7-6(7) 4-6 6-2
R5 - S.ERRANI / R.VINCI (ITA) def. A.PAVLYUCHENKOVA / N.PETROVA (RUS)
1-6 6-3 6-4

And it doesn't matter how many top players you have, but how many commit and actually play.

Feyd
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:51 PM
Oudin blast for Williams sisters

'For me, this is what I wanted. I wanted to come here. I wanted to play for my country,' said Oudin.

'I don't know, other people choose different things. Some people, I guess, didn't want to play as badly as I did.

'But I think that the team that we had here really wanted to be here. I think that was what should have happened.

'I mean, you don't want people here that don't want to be here.

'Next year we're gonna have people that want to be here again. That's what you want. You don't want people that don't want to be here or play for their country.

'Even if you lose, if you give it everything you have, then that's the best you can do.'


Here, here! :lol:

Dave.
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:52 PM
Congrats Italy on winning it again. Vinci's Fed Cup doubles record is still unbeaten. :eek:

It was always going to be difficult for the US but they did themselves proud, just a shame Liezel and Vania couldn't get that last win. :sad: With the experience and improvements, I think this team can go all the way next year.



Good job maria joe hernandez

You have her name wrong, it's Mary Joe Fernandez.

But yeah I agree, it was a good job from her (a great job in fact!) taking the US to the Fed Cup Final for the first time in many years WITHOUT the US' top 2 singles players. :worship:

Hope they win it next year. :bounce:

Dave.
Nov 8th, 2009, 02:54 PM
So Fed Cup needs to be won by the top ranked players? USA made the final without a top 50 player, so if we would have won, you should be saying the same thing then.
Italy beat Russia.
R1 - F.PENNETTA (ITA) def. A.CHAKVETADZE (RUS)
6-4 6-0
R2 - F.SCHIAVONE (ITA) def. S.KUZNETSOVA (RUS)
1-6 6-2 6-3
R3 - S.KUZNETSOVA (RUS) def. F.PENNETTA (ITA)
6-0 6-3
R4 - F.SCHIAVONE (ITA) def. A.PAVLYUCHENKOVA (RUS)
7-6(7) 4-6 6-2
R5 - S.ERRANI / R.VINCI (ITA) def. A.PAVLYUCHENKOVA / N.PETROVA (RUS)
1-6 6-3 6-4

And it doesn't matter how many top players you have, but how many commit and actually play.

Plus when playing for your country, as a team with the different crowd atmosphere and the coach on the court, rankings are sometimes taken out of it a little bit. Anything can happen.

hellas719
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:04 PM
So Fed Cup needs to be won by the top ranked players? USA made the final without a top 50 player, so if we would have won, you should be saying the same thing then.
Italy beat Russia.
R1 - F.PENNETTA (ITA) def. A.CHAKVETADZE (RUS)
6-4 6-0
R2 - F.SCHIAVONE (ITA) def. S.KUZNETSOVA (RUS)
1-6 6-2 6-3
R3 - S.KUZNETSOVA (RUS) def. F.PENNETTA (ITA)
6-0 6-3
R4 - F.SCHIAVONE (ITA) def. A.PAVLYUCHENKOVA (RUS)
7-6(7) 4-6 6-2
R5 - S.ERRANI / R.VINCI (ITA) def. A.PAVLYUCHENKOVA / N.PETROVA (RUS)
1-6 6-3 6-4

And it doesn't matter how many top players you have, but how many commit and actually play.

Yeah, I blame the top players for not playing :shrug:
I think FC should be mandatory ;)

AJZ.
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:04 PM
11-9 in a TB or 11-9 in games? :eek:

Jorn
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:11 PM
As it was a dead rubber they played with Super tb in last set.

!Gio!
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:17 PM
Oudin sounds like quite the Sourpuss!!!
http://www.thecatgallery.com/images/sour-puss-2.JPG

dreamgoddess099
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:47 PM
Oudin blast for Williams sisters


'For me, this is what I wanted. I wanted to come here. I wanted to play for my country,' said Oudin.

'I don't know, other people choose different things. Some people, I guess, didn't want to play as badly as I did.

'But I think that the team that we had here really wanted to be here. I think that was what should have happened.

'I mean, you don't want people here that don't want to be here.

'Next year we're gonna have people that want to be here again. That's what you want. You don't want people that don't want to be here or play for their country.



This sounds like a script Mary Jo handed out to them for when they lost.:lol: This girl has played Fed Cup for one year, big fucking deal. That pales in comparison to the sisters who have been playing FedCup for their country since 1999 and have won Olympic gold in singles and doubles for their country as well. Not to mention they have represented US tennis like no others for a decade now, even when there were no other Americans in the top 100. Typical ungrateful tennis people, forever asking for more and never appreciating all that they have gotten out of the Williams sisters. Just three months ago at the US Open when Venus's foreign opponent was receiving more support than her and Oudin was making the quarterfinals and being called the only American left in the draw, they acted like they didn't even need the sisters. Now all of a sudden they want to remember that they are Americans.:rolleyes:

The Witch-king
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:51 PM
:eek: :tape: She was repeating herself so many times, sounds like a scorn woman. Would love to see a Serena vs Oudin match next year... love the drama!

she done an injustice to her OWN country makin so many damn unforced areas

tennisbum79
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:52 PM
what a beatdown by the Italians.

Had the FED Cup not been shceduled so close to YEC, maybe could MJF could have had Serena ( and maybe even Venus)

dreamgoddess099
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:57 PM
what a beatdown by the Italians.

Had the FED Cup not been shceduled so close to YEC, maybe could MJF could have had Serena ( and maybe even Venus)

Ya think?

hammerhead
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:58 PM
Congratulations, Italy. Well played...well deserved.

!Gio!
Nov 8th, 2009, 03:59 PM
she done an injustice to her OWN country makin so many damn unforced areas

She already did it when she picked up a tennis racket.:tape:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 04:01 PM
This sounds like a script Mary Jo handed out to them for when they lost.:lol: This girl has played Fed Cup for one year, big fucking deal. That pales in comparison to the sisters who have been playing FedCup for their country since 1999 and have won Olympic gold in singles and doubles for their country as well. Not to mention they have represented US tennis like no others for a decade now, even when there were no other Americans in the top 100. Typical ungrateful tennis people, forever asking for more and never appreciating all that they have gotten out of the Williams sisters. Just three months ago at the US Open when Venus's foreign opponent was receiving more support than her and Oudin was making the quarterfinals and being called the only American left in the draw, they acted like they didn't even need the sisters. Now all of a sudden they want to remember that they are Americans.:rolleyes:
They, They, They. Who is they? Venus is the only one really playing for Team USA when we need her. Serena doing us a favor by playing a few first rounds against a weak Belgium and Czech Republic. Venus has shown loyalty to our team, Serena has shown she cares about playing Olympics. I am not hating, just being realistic and stating facts. Melanie came on to the scene this year, so I don't see why you are trying to put her being pro for 2 years and competing one year for Team USA against The 15 year careers of the WS. Melanie will be playing more Fed Cup, and not to mention Melanie in just one year is only behind Serena by 1 tie for the amount of ties played.
what a beatdown by the Italians.

Had the FED Cup not been shceduled so close to YEC, maybe could MJF could have had Serena ( and maybe even Venus)

I doubt Venus would play either way.

tennisbum79
Nov 8th, 2009, 04:05 PM
I doubt Venus would play either way.
I disagree, I think Venus would have.
She likes MJF and has a sense of obligation to peole she likes. Whic is not always a good thing, but that is Venus.

FORZA SARITA
Nov 8th, 2009, 04:26 PM
congrats girls ;)
i expect flavia to be everywhere on italian tv shows next week:tape:

4-0 :worship:...

And Roberta Vinci has 14 win on 14 doubles match in Fed Cup :worship:

amazing roby :worship:


how good looks silvia?:hearts:
http://www.fedcup.com/news/newsarticle.asp?articleid=12611

FORZA SARITA
Nov 8th, 2009, 04:43 PM
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_pennetta_c093752.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_coppa_c093677.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_coppa_c093630.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_acqua_gs20354.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_pennetta_gs20221.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_squadra_c093295.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_pennetta_gs20362.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_bandiera_c093365.jpg


:spit:
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_dsc_5995.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop__c092770.jpg

!Gio!
Nov 8th, 2009, 04:57 PM
aww the Italians are so cute!!! They are a great team!:)

http://www.darkbrownbuckets.com/media/madonna.jpg

hammerhead
Nov 8th, 2009, 05:11 PM
Terrific pictures!!

Would be fun to make up captions for them...especially the one of Mary Joe talking to Mel!

gsm86
Nov 8th, 2009, 05:14 PM
http://www.fedcup.com/shared/medialibrary/image/gallery/FC_6261_gallery.JPG

The italian past and present team (Garbin, Grande, Casoni, Serra Zanetti sisters, Pizzichini, Farina and Santangelo besides Pennetta, Schiavone, Errani and Vinci).

FORZA SARITA
Nov 8th, 2009, 05:19 PM
Silvia :inlove:
Tax :hehehe:

VIKA?
Nov 8th, 2009, 05:20 PM
Mara:inlove:

*Jool*
Nov 8th, 2009, 05:25 PM
Forza ! :rocker:
well deserved win for Italy :yeah: congrats girls !
isn't it Italy's first Fed Cup ? :scratch:

FORZA SARITA
Nov 8th, 2009, 05:26 PM
Forza ! :rocker:
well deserved win for Italy :yeah: congrats girls !
isn't it Italy's first Fed Cup ? :scratch:

second :o

*Jool*
Nov 8th, 2009, 05:29 PM
^yes I thought it might be ;)

tennisbum79
Nov 8th, 2009, 06:13 PM
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_pennetta_c093752.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_coppa_c093677.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_coppa_c093630.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_acqua_gs20354.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_pennetta_gs20221.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_squadra_c093295.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_pennetta_gs20362.jpg
http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop_bandiera_c093365.jpg


:spit:

http://www.federtennis.it/upload/pop__c092770.jpg
They sure look like WINNERS.

Very nice pictures of jubilation and happiness.

What a year for the top 2 italians, especially for Panetta.

sweetpeas
Nov 8th, 2009, 06:25 PM
This sounds like a script Mary Jo handed out to them for when they lost. This girl has played Fed Cup for one year, big fucking deal. That pales in comparison to the sisters who have been playing FedCup for their country since 1999 and have won Olympic gold in singles and doubles for their country as well. Not to mention they have represented US tennis like no others for a decade now, even when there were no other Americans in the top 100. Typical ungrateful tennis people, forever asking for more and never appreciating all that they have gotten out of the Williams sisters. Just three months ago at the US Open when Venus's foreign opponent was receiving more support than her and Oudin was making the quarterfinals and being called the only American left in the draw, they acted like they didn't even need the sisters. Now all of a sudden they want to remember that they are Americans.


So true!I glad Serena didn't go!

Vanity Bonfire
Nov 8th, 2009, 06:40 PM
The Fed Cup needs a massive overhaul. It's been completely uninteresting for several years now and very few top players actually care anymore.

FORZA SARITA
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:01 PM
What a year for the top 2 italians, especially for Panetta.

:hysteric:
Miss Penata :rocker:

Matt01
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:14 PM
she done an injustice to her OWN country makin so many damn unforced areas


At least she tried :shrug:

Serena on the other hand only talked big (as always) and then got afraid and withdrew when it really counted :devil:

BlameSerena
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:20 PM
At least she tried :shrug:

Serena on the other hand only talked big (as always) and then got afraid and withdrew when it really counted :devil:

You just can't get Serena off of your mind, can you?

Yeah good for Melanie for trying.

That has nothing to do with Serena, but you (as always) have to bring her into every discussion because deep down you're more obsessed with her than any of her fans :lol:

Matt01
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:24 PM
That has nothing to do with Serena, but you (as always) have to bring her into every discussion because deep down you're more obsessed with her than any of her fans :lol:


I was not the one who brought Serena into this thread :shrug:

And btw, the Venus fans have accused me of bringing Venus always into discussion, the Pova fans regularly accusing me of the same with Scharapova, and now the Serena fans are doing the same. Makes me wonder who is right :scratch:

HRHoliviasmith
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Congrats to the Italians! :worship:

Team USA :awww: :hug:

BlameSerena
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:33 PM
I was not the one who brought Serena into this thread :shrug:

And btw, the Venus fans have accused me of bringing Venus always into discussion, the Pova fans regularly accusing me of the same with Scharapova, and now the Serena fans are doing the same. Makes me wonder who is right :scratch:

I didn't say you "brought Serena into this thread."

I said, Yeah good for Melanie for trying. That has nothing to do with Serena, but you (as always) have to bring her into every discussion because deep down you're more obsessed with her than any of her fans.

The person you were responding to made a comment about Melanie and you couldn't help but throw Serena in her face, when in fact, Melanie (and the way she played) has absolutely nothing to do with Serena...but you couldn't help yourself. That was my point.

Matt01
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:39 PM
I didn't say you "brought Serena into this thread."

I said,

The person you were responding to made a comment about Melanie and you couldn't help but throw Serena in her face, when in fact, Melanie (and the way she played) has absolutely nothing to do with Serena...but you couldn't help yourself. That was my point.


Err...yes she has a lot to do with Serena in this case since she was quoted in an article where she was giving a detailed opinion about Serena and her absence.

~{X}~
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:40 PM
Everyone knows, the Williams really only want to play the year prior to the Olympics so that they can qualify for the Olympics. Expect to see them play in 2011.

Juju Nostalgique
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:44 PM
As much as I really dislike Italians in general, I love the scoreline against the US! :haha: :haha: :haha:

BlameSerena
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Err...yes she has a lot to do with Serena in this case since she was quoted in an article where she was giving a detailed opinion about Serena and her absence.
Melanie's unforced errors vs. Serena not playing

No, I still don't see the connection...

Your original post didn't mention anything about the article or what Melanie had to say, it just was an attempt to cut down Serena yet again.

Because you're obsessed with her, and that is okay. Just embrace it.:):):)

Matt01
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:51 PM
As much as I really dislike Italians in general, I love the scoreline against the US! :haha: :haha: :haha:


You dislike Italians in general? That's really nice :tape:
:rolleyes:


Because you're obsessed with her, and that is okay. Just embrace it.:):):)


You are obsessed with her as well, just look at your usename. So we're sitting in the same boat :hug:

AnomyBC
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:53 PM
Melanie's unforced errors vs. Serena not playing

No, I still don't see the connection...

Your original post didn't mention anything about the article or what Melanie had to say, it just was an attempt to cut down Serena yet again.

Because you're obsessed with her, and that is okay. Just embrace it.:):):)

The person was defending Melanie by pointing out that at least she played, whereas Serena (and Venus) didn't. It's a very valid point and a point that anyone defending Melanie's Fed Cup performance would obviously raise. :shrug:

Roookie
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:54 PM
USA team :help: :tape:

Mary Joe :hug:

Serena :rolleyes:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 07:59 PM
Everyone knows, the Williams really only want to play the year prior to the Olympics so that they can qualify for the Olympics. Expect to see them play in 2011.

Yeah because Venus played 2004, 2005 and extra in 2007 for the hell of it. In that case, Serena is true, Venus it is not fully true. So no, everyone doesn't know that is only why.

AkademiQ
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:04 PM
The person was defending Melanie by pointing out that at least she played, whereas Serena (and Venus) didn't. It's a very valid point and a point that anyone defending Melanie's Fed Cup performance would obviously raise. :shrug:

A bit of time ago when just the mention of Serena being on the team raised concern from those that felt it unfair that she would be included because she didn't help get the team this far. Now there is this same concern that she wasn't on the team and the US lost miserablly. Can't have it both ways especially since Melanie's play is independent of Serena being on the team or not being on the team.

BlameSerena
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:04 PM
The person was defending Melanie by pointing out that at least she played, whereas Serena (and Venus) didn't. It's a very valid point and a point that anyone defending Melanie's Fed Cup performance would obviously raise. :shrug:
It is a fact that Serena didn't play, but Melanie's performance in FC is a separate issue. Just because Serena didn't play doesn't mean people can't comment on the way that Melanie played :shrug:. I don't follow that logic...

Matt01, I can't sit in the same boat with you due to my deathly fear of cooties :nerner:

AnomyBC
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:08 PM
Getting back to the original topic, I'm pretty impressed that the American team even made it this far. On paper a team made up of low ranked American players like Oudin, Glatch, Craybas and Mattek should have lost a long time ago, so the fact that they somehow managed to make it to the Final---whereas teams like the Russian team didn't---is pretty damn amazing :worship:

thrust
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:10 PM
wow Flavia :worship:

CONGRATS to the ITALIAN TEAM !!! :yeah:

VIVA ITALIA!! Good effort from the American B team.

AnomyBC
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:13 PM
A bit of time ago when just the mention of Serena being on the team raised concern from those that felt it unfair that she would be included because she didn't help get the team this far. Now there is this same concern that she wasn't on the team and the US lost miserablly. Can't have it both ways especially since Melanie's play is independent of Serena being on the team or not being on the team.

Those aren't conflicting ideas. If Serena was on the team it would be somewhat unfair to Glatch, who would have gotten bumped, but that doesn't change the fact that Serena could have been on the team---either now or when they played earlier this year---and both times she chose not to.

iPatty
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:17 PM
I'm glad Mel had the nerve to say what everyone was thinking. I can understand Venus not playing because she wasn't formally invited. Serena on the other hand told MJF that she would play (and IIRC, she said some time before that said she would only pass on the tie if she were in a wheelchair?) and then backed out.

Oudin and Glatch :worship: Willing to play for their country.

AnomyBC
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:18 PM
It is a fact that Serena didn't play, but Melanie's performance in FC is a separate issue. Just because Serena didn't play doesn't mean people can't comment on the way that Melanie played :shrug:. I don't follow that logic...

There's nothing wrong with criticizing Melanie's performance. What I'm saying is that the obvious defense of Melanie, from a Melanie fan's point of view, is of course going to be the fact that she played whereas Serena (and Venus) didn't. Hence, the theory would go, Melanie should be proud of her performance since at least she tried, whereas Serena and Venus didn't.

AkademiQ
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:19 PM
Those aren't conflicting ideas. If Serena was on the team it would be somewhat unfair to Glatch, who would have gotten bumped, but that doesn't change the fact that Serena could have been on the team---either now or when they played earlier this year---and both times she chose not to.

:haha: okay, thanks, just another case of wanting it both ways and finding all the ways of having Serena be the fall and bad guy. :lol:

CrossCourt~Rally
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:21 PM
Congrats Italy :D.


Nice try Team USA :hug: . They did an amazing job to reach the Finals :bounce:

brickhousesupporter
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:26 PM
At the end of Serena's career she will not be remembered for how many Fed cup ties she participated in. She will be remembered for how many titles and majors she won. Look at Andy Roddick loyal Davis Cup player that practically made Patrick McEnroes career as a Davis Cup coach, his career is not that great, that he will have to be remembered by how many ties he played.

HRHoliviasmith
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:28 PM
:haha: okay, thanks, just another case of wanting it both ways and finding all the ways of having Serena be the fall and bad guy. :lol:

basically, in a nutshell. nothing new there.

AnomyBC
Nov 8th, 2009, 08:32 PM
:haha: okay, thanks, just another case of wanting it both ways and finding all the ways of having Serena be the fall and bad guy. :lol:

Again, those aren't conflicting ideas. I believe that Serena should have been on the team, but the fact that I believe that doesn't mean that choosing her wouldn't have been unfair to Glatch. To put things differently, I think that Serena should have been on the team despite the fact that it would have been unfair to Glatch. It's really not that difficult of an idea to understand :)

Filippo-Nastya
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:03 PM
Well done girls! :D:banana:

USA :hug:

brickhousesupporter
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:23 PM
If I had a twitter account, I would let Serena and Venus know that their fellow American tennis players question their patriotism........I hope they never play for them again, unless it benefits them.

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:29 PM
CONGRATGULATIONS TO ITALY!!
Credit where credit due. The deserved the win.
But man!!..., we got our ass handed to us. :help:
Not a single win ? :eek:

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:32 PM
Oudin blast for Williams sisters


Teenager Melanie Oudin aimed a veiled broadside at the absent Williams sisters after Italy completed an easy thrashing of the United States in the final of the Fed Cup on Sunday.

World number 11 Flavia Pennetta eased to a 7-5, 6-2 beating of 18-year-old Oudin to put the hosts into an unassailable 3-0 lead in the tie.

All three matches finished in straight sets with Italians Pennetta and Schiavone dropping a meagre total of five games in their second sets.

World number one Serena Williams and her sixth-ranked sister Venus opted to miss this tournament despite playing each other in the season-ending Tour Championships in Doha last weekend.

Serena then went to London to promote a book while her compatriots were forced to tackle the Italians with players ranked 49 and 132 in the world.

'For me, this is what I wanted. I wanted to come here. I wanted to play for my country,' said Oudin.

'I don't know, other people choose different things. Some people, I guess, didn't want to play as badly as I did.

'But I think that the team that we had here really wanted to be here. I think that was what should have happened.

'I mean, you don't want people here that don't want to be here.

'Next year we're gonna have people that want to be here again. That's what you want. You don't want people that don't want to be here or play for their country.

'Even if you lose, if you give it everything you have, then that's the best you can do.'

While the Americans' best two players, who have not played in the Fed Cup since 2007, decided to skip this event, it was clear how much winning meant to the Italians.

Pennetta described this victory as the 'perfect end to a great season' in which she also became the first ever Italian woman to reach the top 10 in the world.

'For me it's very important to be champion of the world in tennis,' she said.

'To represent your country is different. Usually you play for yourself and no-one cares but here it's totally different.'

Oudin was impressed by just how patriotic the Italian players are.

'I knew this coming into this Fed Cup that they have a real team. Every single one of them has played Fed Cup before,' she said.

'They all want to be here. I'm at tournaments and I always see them hanging out with each other and warming each other up and watching each other's matches and cheering for each other.

'So they are a real team and I think that's what's really helped them in this Fed Cup, this year.

'Their team effort, the team atmosphere, everything, they do it extremely well. I think that's a huge part of Fed Cup.'Damn!! So Little Miss Sunshine shows her true colors, huh?
She can't even take responsibility for her and her team's own pathetic display and failure here. *sigh*
And I used to like her too.
Oh well, it was bound to happen. :shrug:

miffedmax
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:35 PM
I get a little frustrated with Vee and Ree not playing Fed Cup, but I'm even more frustrated with the way Fed Cup has become a complete and utter afterthought. (Davis hasn't yet, but it's on the way down).

The WS are hardly the only top players who skip Fed Cup on a regular basis. I'm one of those who agrees in needs to go to more of a World Cup format to create some excitement and become a real event.

I bet most US papers didn't give it more than a graf if that much. Of course, the Czarina of Bangs is a Fed Cup machine.

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:38 PM
Damn!! So Little Miss Sunshine shows her true colors, huh?
She can't even take responsibility for her and her team's own pathetic display and failure here. *sigh*
And I used to like her too.
Oh well, it was bound to happen. :shrug:

It's an article, not all of her quotes are there. And she is kinda right. Serena probably doesn't like Fed Cup, she doesn't want to go and do it. The team's effort was not pathetic, they were never going to go in there and beat world #11 and 17 on CLAY.
You don't like her for her comments now?:lol:

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:42 PM
They, They, They. Who is they? Venus is the only one really playing for Team USA when we need her. Serena doing us a favor by playing a few first rounds against a weak Belgium and Czech Republic. Venus has shown loyalty to our team, Serena has shown she cares about playing Olympics. I am not hating, just being realistic and stating facts. Melanie came on to the scene this year, so I don't see why you are trying to put her being pro for 2 years and competing one year for Team USA against The 15 year careers of the WS. Melanie will be playing more Fed Cup, and not to mention Melanie in just one year is only behind Serena by 1 tie for the amount of ties played.


I doubt Venus would play either way.Wait...hold up...?

Aren't you one of those fans who hates Serena?
Who could care less about her, and often has negative things to say about her?

And NOW you WANT her to play for for your country?!?!!?!
What's wrong with this picture?
WOULD YOU PEOPLE PLEASE MAKE UP YOUR MINDS ABOUT SERENA!!!

You need to place the damn blame where it belongs... !!

...the team that LOST IT for America.

brickhousesupporter
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:43 PM
It's an article, not all of her quotes are there. And she is right. Serena probably doesn't like Fed Cup, she doesn't want to go and do it. The team's effort was not pathetic, they were never going to go in there and beat world #11 and 17 on CLAY.
You don't like her for her comments now?:lol:

So its ok to questions someones patriotism from not carrying you and your team to the title........:lol:. She is entitled to her opinions, but she is also susceptible to peoples criticism of her opinions. Serena was injured......It is not like she declined to play after resting for 2 weeks.

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:43 PM
Wait...hold up...?

Aren't you one of those fans who hates Serena?
Who could care less about her, and often has negative things to say about her?

And NOW you WANT her to play for for your country?!?!!?!
What's wrong with this picture?
WOULD YOU PEOPLE PLEASE MAKE UP YOUR MINDS ABOUT SERENA!!!

What? Serena is my second fave. NICE try though, idiot:haha:
I'm being realistic and stated facts:wavey:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:43 PM
So its ok to questions someones patriotism from not carrying you and your team to the title........:lol:. She is entitled to her opionions, but she is also succeptable to peoples criticism of her opinions. Serena was injured......It is not like she declined to play after resting for 2 weeks.

No, I changed it to kind of right, I missed a part:o

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:47 PM
What? Serena is my second fave. NICE try though, idiot:haha:
I'm being realistic and stated facts:wavey::bs: :bs: That's some hard to believe :bs:

It's amazing that some of you people call yourselves fans.
Pull your head out your ass ya damn fool.
The blame belongs to the players who lost it for the US. Not players who weren'y there.
Are you still in grammar school? :scratch:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:49 PM
:bs: :bs: That's some hard to believe :bs:

It's amazing that some of you people call yourselves fans.
Pull your head out your ass ya damn fool.
The blame belongs to the players who lost it for the US. Not players who weren'y there.
Are you still in grammar school? :scratch:

Well whether you do believe it or not, I am a fan and I could careless what the fuck you think.:shrug: Just because My head is not up Serena's ass and I stated FACTS in that post you quoted, doesn't make me a non-fan:weirdo:
The post you quoted had nothing to do with blaming either WS for the loss, but rather someone saying the WS always play and I corrected them. US lost because they lost, it's easy as that.
No.

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:49 PM
It's an article, not all of her quotes are there. And she is kinda right. Serena probably doesn't like Fed Cup, she doesn't want to go and do it. The team's effort was not pathetic, they were never going to go in there and beat world #11 and 17 on CLAY.
You don't like her for her comments now?:lol:What are you talking about, "all of her quotes aren't there."
Are you daft?!
It's clear what's she's saying.

I guess you are in grammar school. To not be able to discern her words does require some intelligence.

Matt01
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:50 PM
Serena was injured......It is not like she declined to play after resting for 2 weeks.


But she promised to play even in a wheelchair :awww:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:51 PM
What are you talking about, "all of her quotes aren't there."
Are you daft?!
It's clear what's she's saying.

I guess you are in grammar school. To not be able to discern her words does require some intelligence.

You said she should take responsibility for her team losing, I then replied that not all of her quotes are there:silly:
Bash me, I don't care:) If it makes you feel better, I don't mind;)

brickhousesupporter
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:52 PM
But she promised to play even in a wheelchair :awww:
hyperbole......look it up.

dreamgoddess099
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:53 PM
They, They, They. Who is they?
Don't you mean who ARE they? I don't know who they IS either. Anyway, perhaps if one learned to use the quote tags and properly displayed which "they" they (meaning you) are inquiring about, I could give you a proper answer.

Venus is the only one really playing for Team USA when we need her. Newsflash, she didn't play the final either. Serena at least gave it some consideration.

Serena doing us a favor by playing a few first rounds against a weak Belgium and Czech Republic.
Oh, so now it only counts when you play the big ties? Again, Venus didn't play the final either.

Venus has shown loyalty to our team, Serena has shown she cares about playing Olympics. I am not hating, just being realistic and stating facts.
You began hating the moment you tried to save Venus by throwing Serena under the bus. Again, Venus didn't play the final either. Furthermore, when did playing FedCup become more patriotic than playing for your country in the Olympics? A gold medal for the Country is way better than a Fedcup title, so I fail to see how Fedcup is more important.

Melanie came on to the scene this year, so I don't see why you are trying to put her being pro for 2 years and competing one year for Team USA against The 15 year careers of the WS.
I didn't put her 1 year up against their 15, she did. She's the one that spoke as if her one year of Fedcup play proved she was so much more patriotic than all of the times when the sisters competed for the country at FedCup and the Olympics.

Melanie will be playing more Fed Cup, and not to mention Melanie in just one year is only behind Serena by 1 tie for the amount of ties played.
But the difference is Serena is undefeated in FedCup. I guess that means Serena loves her country more since she actually bothers to win when playing for it.

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:54 PM
Well whether you do believe it or not, I am a fan and I could careless what the fuck you think.:shrug: Just because My head is not up Serena's ass and I stated FACTS in that post you quoted, doesn't make me a non-fan:weirdo:
The post you quoted had nothing to do with blaming either WS for the loss, but rather someone saying the WS always play and I corrected them. US lost because they lost, it's easy as that.
No.First of all, your definition of a "fan" is wrong!
Would you please go look it up.
Secondly, I WISH me head WAS up Serena's ass, cuz it would certainly be much better than reading your sh!t posts about our top players, and misplacing the blame.

Tell me Cranium, how is it that Venus and Serena lost this for the US, and not the players themselves who were out there on the damn court?

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:56 PM
You said she should take responsibility for her team losing, I then replied that not all of her quotes are there:silly:
Bash me, I don't care:) If it makes you feel better, I don't mind;)You should care, because you're dead wrong.
At least have the intelligence to discern who were physically responsible for this loss,
stop blaming players who weren't even there.

You make no damn sense.

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:56 PM
First of all, your definition of a "fan" is wrong!
Would you please go look it up.
Secondly, I WISH me head WAS up Serena's ass, cuz it would certainly be much better than reading your sh!t posts about our top players, and misplacing the blame.

Tell me Cranium, how is it that Venus and Serena lost this for the US, and not the players themselves who were out there on the damn court?

OMG, you're telling me daft, when HELLO!!!!!!!! I never once blamed Venus and Serena for this loss:weirdo:

Oh blah blah, keep bashing me, I don't care, just shows your grasping at straws to get a reaction:)

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:59 PM
OMG, you're telling me daft, when HELLO!!!!!!!! I never once blamed Venus and Serena for this loss:weirdo:

Oh blah blah, keep bashing me, I don't care, just shows your grasping at straws to get a reaction:)Oh so now you're back-tracking after you said that Oudin was right for "directed blame game" comment?

I give up.
You just stated this only a few posts ago!
JEEESUS!

BlameSerena
Nov 8th, 2009, 09:59 PM
Don't you mean who ARE they? I don't know who they IS either. Anyway, perhaps if one learned to use the quote tags and properly displayed which "they" they (meaning you) are inquiring about, I could give you a proper answer.

Newsflash, she didn't play the final either. Serena at least gave it some consideration.


Oh, so now it only counts when you play the big ties? Again, Venus didn't play the final either.


You began hating the moment you tried to save Venus by throwing Serena under the bus. Again, Venus didn't play the final either. Furthermore, when did playing FedCup become more patriotic than playing for your country in the Olympics? A gold medal for the Country is way better than a Fedcup title, so I fail to see how Fedcup is more important.


I didn't put her 1 year up against their 15, she did. She's the one that spoke as if her one year of Fedcup play proved she was so much more patriotic than all of the times when the sisters competed for the country at FedCup and the Olympics.


But the difference is Serena is undefeated in FedCup. I guess that means Serena loves her country more since she actually bothers to win when playing for it.

Well said :worship:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:01 PM
Don't you mean who ARE they? I don't know who they IS either. Anyway, perhaps if one learned to use the quote tags and properly displayed which "they" they (meaning you) are inquiring about, I could give you a proper answer.

Newsflash, she didn't play the final either. Serena at least gave it some consideration.


Oh, so now it only counts when you play the big ties? Again, Venus didn't play the final either.


You began hating the moment you tried to save Venus by throwing Serena under the bus. Again, Venus didn't play the final either. Furthermore, when did playing FedCup become more patriotic than playing for your country in the Olympics? A gold medal for the Country is way better than a Fedcup title, so I fail to see how Fedcup is more important.


I didn't put her 1 year up against their 15, she did. She's the one that spoke as if her one year of Fedcup play proved she was so much more patriotic than all of the times when the sisters competed for the country at FedCup and the Olympics.


But the difference is Serena is undefeated in FedCup. I guess that means Serena loves her country more since she actually bothers to win when playing for it.

Crucify me, I made a mistake:o
Serena has only played first round ties since 1999. ONLY first round ties, only 4 ties altogether. Venus has played 9. There was not the intention to hate on Serena, I stated facts. I am fully aware Venus didn't play and I am upset with that. Serena is undefeated because she played weak teams, Flipkens and Caroline Maes aren't exactly GOATs. Serena has only played Fed Cup 4 times.

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Don't you mean who ARE they? I don't know who they IS either. Anyway, perhaps if one learned to use the quote tags and properly displayed which "they" they (meaning you) are inquiring about, I could give you a proper answer.

Newsflash, she didn't play the final either. Serena at least gave it some consideration.


Oh, so now it only counts when you play the big ties? Again, Venus didn't play the final either.


You began hating the moment you tried to save Venus by throwing Serena under the bus. Again, Venus didn't play the final either. Furthermore, when did playing FedCup become more patriotic than playing for your country in the Olympics? A gold medal for the Country is way better than a Fedcup title, so I fail to see how Fedcup is more important.


I didn't put her 1 year up against their 15, she did. She's the one that spoke as if her one year of Fedcup play proved she was so much more patriotic than all of the times when the sisters competed for the country at FedCup and the Olympics.


But the difference is Serena is undefeated in FedCup. I guess that means Serena loves her country more since she actually bothers to win when playing for it.Great post dreamgoddess099!
That poster isn't a fan at all.

Dreamgoddess099, was I arguing with a chid?

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:08 PM
Crucify me, I made a mistake:o
Serena has only played first round ties since 1999. ONLY first round ties, only 4 ties altogether. Venus has played 9. There was not the intention to hate on Serena, I stated facts. I am fully aware Venus didn't play and I am upset with that. Serena is undefeated because she played weak teams, Flipkens and Caroline Maes aren't exactly GOATs. Serena has only played Fed Cup 4 times.First of all, Venus turned pro before Serena, however, that's neither here or there.
There are hundreds of mitigating factors at play here.

1) There were a stretch of years where BOTH did not play for various reasons (surgery, various injuries, conditioning, greif of a family member's muder, etc...).
2) What type of prerequisites are you employing where a player must place there bodies at risk after player a lengthy season?
And let's not kid ourselves, for this WAS a lengthy season for Serena.
3) Is there a minimum/maximum number of appearances that an American player must make?

You say that you're a fan, so why don't you at least know that Serena isn't Venus and visa-versa?
They are two distinct players with two distinct bodies. When one plays, why does the other HAVE TO?

Like I said, you're not a fan.

Lulu.
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:08 PM
I'm glad Serena went and promoted her book instead. :)

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:09 PM
Oh so now you're back-tracking after you said that Oudin was right for "directed blame game" comment?

I give up.
You just stated this only a few posts ago!
JEEESUS!
I said I kind of agree with her. I agree with that she wanted to play and that the Williams Sisters didn't, but that was because of injuries. I disagree with her questioning their loyalty, but then again Serena could have played more than 4 ties, but that's just my opinion.
Great post dreamgoddess099!
That poster isn't a fan at all.

Dreamgoddess099, was I arguing with a chid?

Since you 2 like correcting my errors, what is a chid?

Yes yes, add me to the hater's list for not having my head up Serena's ass and worshipping her as if she were God.

FORZA SARITA
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:10 PM
omg supertennis is showing what happened in locker room :haha: water everywhere :lol:
francesca is crazy :bowdown:

AnnaK_4ever
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:11 PM
Oudin blast for Williams sisters


Teenager Melanie Oudin aimed a veiled broadside at the absent Williams sisters after Italy completed an easy thrashing of the United States in the final of the Fed Cup on Sunday.

World number 11 Flavia Pennetta eased to a 7-5, 6-2 beating of 18-year-old Oudin to put the hosts into an unassailable 3-0 lead in the tie.

All three matches finished in straight sets with Italians Pennetta and Schiavone dropping a meagre total of five games in their second sets.

World number one Serena Williams and her sixth-ranked sister Venus opted to miss this tournament despite playing each other in the season-ending Tour Championships in Doha last weekend.

Serena then went to London to promote a book while her compatriots were forced to tackle the Italians with players ranked 49 and 132 in the world.

'For me, this is what I wanted. I wanted to come here. I wanted to play for my country,' said Oudin.

'I don't know, other people choose different things. Some people, I guess, didn't want to play as badly as I did.

'But I think that the team that we had here really wanted to be here. I think that was what should have happened.

'I mean, you don't want people here that don't want to be here.

'Next year we're gonna have people that want to be here again. That's what you want. You don't want people that don't want to be here or play for their country.

Another arrogant weaponless teenager on the tour. As if Karatantcheva, MLDB and Cornet were not enough.

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:12 PM
First of all, Venus turned pro before Serena, however, that's neither here or there.
There are hundreds of mitigating factors at play here.

1) There were a stretch of years where BOTH did not play for various reasons (surgery, various injuries, conditioning, greif of a family member's muder, etc...).
2) What type of prerequisites are you employing where a player must place there bodies at risk after player a lengthy season?
And let's not kid ourselves, for this WAS a lengthy season for Serena.

You say that you're a fan, so why don't you at least know that Serena isn't Venus and visa-versa?
They are two distinct players with two distinct bodies. When one plays, why does the other HAVE TO?

Like I said, you're not a fan.

I HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIMES I UNDERSTAND WITH WHY THEY didn't play.
I don't know that Serena isn't Venus and yet you agreed with dreamgoddess' comment saying that the WS have played Fed Cup so much and grouping them together. 4 ties is not a lot, Venus has played 9 which is a lot.
I am done arguing with you.:wavey:

brent-o
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:19 PM
At the end of Serena's career she will not be remembered for how many Fed cup ties she participated in. She will be remembered for how many titles and majors she won. Look at Andy Roddick loyal Davis Cup player that practically made Patrick McEnroes career as a Davis Cup coach, his career is not that great, that he will have to be remembered by how many ties he played.

She may however be remembered for how many commitments she's broken.

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:22 PM
I said I kind of agree with her. I agree with that she wanted to play and that the Williams Sisters didn't, but that was because of injuries. I disagree with her questioning their loyalty, but then again Serena could have played more than 4 ties, but that's just my opinion.Okay, well that's different. At least we are making a little bit of progress.

However, you need to let go of the "would haves" and "should haves", and "could haves" because Serena is a grown woman and knows how to make the correct decisions for what's best for HER. She also has LOTS of help around her to bounce decisions off of.

And you can certainly have your opinion.
That's not at issue here.
What IS at issue is how you can erroneously blame someone for a loss who wasn't even there.
DO you understand what I'm saying?
That makes no sense.
Since you 2 like correcting my errors, what is a chid?Touche. You got me there. In my haste to post, I screwed up.
Yes yes, add me to the hater's list for not having my head up Serena's ass and worshipping her as if she were God.Did I call you a Hater? :scratch:
Where did I do that?

I specifically stated that your definition of "fan" is wrong.
I then "doubted" your fanship of Serena by saying that you are not a fan.
Where did I call you a Hater?

Serena's ass is reserved for me fella. Whether my head's up it or not, shouldn't matter where the FACTS are concerned. :shrug:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:27 PM
Okay, well that's different. At least we are making a little bit of progress.

However, you need to let go of the "would haves" and "should haves", and "could haves" because Serena is a grown woman and knows how to make the correct decisions for what's best for HER. She also has LOTS of help around her to bounce decisions off of.

And you can certainly have your opinion.
That's not at issue here.
What IS at issue is how you can erroneously blame someone for a loss who wasn't even there.
DO you understand what I'm saying?
That makes no sense.
Touche. You got me there. In my haste to post, I screwed up.
Did I call you a Hater? :scratch:
Where did I do that?

I specifically stated that your definition of "fan" is wrong.
I then "doubted" your fanship of Serena by saying that you are not a fan.
Where did I call you a Hater?

Serena's ass is reserved for me fella. Whether my head's up it or not, shouldn't matter where the FACTS are concerned. :shrug:
That she is, she is a grown woman. I am big into Fed Cup though, and would like our best player to play more:p I really don't see where the hell I blamed her for them losing. Because if I did that, wouldn't I then have to blame Venus, which I know I didn't do.
Oh silly me, I inferred by calling me a non-fan, I was a hater.

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:28 PM
I HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIMES I UNDERSTAND WITH WHY THEY didn't play.And I've already commented that we made progress on this point.
I don't know that Serena isn't Venus and yet you agreed with dreamgoddess' comment saying that the WS have played Fed Cup so much and grouping them together. 4 ties is not a lot, Venus has played 9 which is a lot. :confused: :scratch:
I am done arguing with you.:wavey:Buddy you were done after your first dissing of Serena. :rolleyes:

hankqq
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:28 PM
expected :lol: no way were pennetta and schiavone gonna lose to oudin and glatch on clay :spit:
without the WS, it's great that the usa made the final this year though :yeah: :shrug: :)

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:29 PM
That she is, she is a grown woman. I am big into Fed Cup though, and would like our best player to play more:p I really don't see where the hell I blamed her for them losing. Because if I did that, wouldn't I then have to blame Venus, which I know I didn't do.
Oh silly me, I inferred by calling me a non-fan, I was a hater.And all I'm saying is place the blame where it belongs.

Seriously, how old are you?

brickhousesupporter
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:30 PM
She may however be remembered for how many commitments she's broken.:sad::shrug:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:30 PM
And I've already commented that we made progress on this point.
:confused: :scratch:
Buddy you were done after your first dissing of Serena. :rolleyes:

You scratch, I guess you didn't finish reading the comment.:rolleyes:

Uranium
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:33 PM
And all I'm saying is place the blame where it belongs.

No, you are saying I am blaming Serena for their loss, unless I am misinterpreting you, and I haven't blamed Serena, so I don't understand why you are saying it. Obviously those who played are the ones to blame for the loss since they lost:smash:

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:34 PM
You scratch, I guess you didn't finish reading the comment.:rolleyes:I scratched because you wrote this: I don't know that Serena isn't Venus and yet you agreed with dreamgoddess' comment saying that the WS have played Fed Cup so much and grouping them together. 4 ties is not a lot, Venus has played 9 which is a lot.And I was trying to decipher what you meant so that I could reply.

Slammer7
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:36 PM
First of all, Venus turned pro before Serena, however, that's neither here or there.
There are hundreds of mitigating factors at play here.

1) There were a stretch of years where BOTH did not play for various reasons (surgery, various injuries, conditioning, greif of a family member's muder, etc...).
2) What type of prerequisites are you employing where a player must place there bodies at risk after player a lengthy season?
And let's not kid ourselves, for this WAS a lengthy season for Serena.
3) Is there a minimum/maximum number of appearances that an American player must make?

You say that you're a fan, so why don't you at least know that Serena isn't Venus and visa-versa?
They are two distinct players with two distinct bodies. When one plays, why does the other HAVE TO?

Like I said, you're not a fan.

Not to jump in to the argument, but Venus and Serena made their Fed Cup debuts the same year... 1999. Neither of them were ranked high enough to participate before then becacuse the top U.S players at the time were Lindsay and Monica and they were the leaders. Serena has not played Fed Cup as often as Venus and that's fine. There were times when she was very injured like 2005 (with the stress fracture in the ankle and badly out of shape) and 2007 (with the calf tear and severe thumb sprain) in 2004 she just didn't want to risk playing on clay her first few months after knee surgery.

I have seen many die-hard Serena fans say much worse about her, so I can hardly judge someones fandom based off of simple criticism. :shrug:

The only reason this is even an issue is because there is no depth to American women's tennis. In the past if the sisters weren't there you had Lindsay or Monica or Jennifer, or Megan or Lisa or Amy Frazier or some solid top 10 or top 20 player. We used to have a deep bench full of stars so if one player couldn't be there we always had a more than suitable replacement, but now it is all on 2 players. Serbia had 2 players both ranked in the top five last year and look how they did? Did Belgium win a bunch of Fed Cups with Clijsters and Henin solidly in the top 5 for years? :shrug:

It is how it is. The schedule for Fed Cup is a mess. Just when they finally have the first round and the semis at a more reasonable part of the year they put the final at an impossible time. The Fed Cup schedule had been at an inconvenient and usually injury plagued times of the year for top players for a while now. Right after Wimbledon the U.S players are typically exhausted and injured since they typically do well on grass. The end of the season they are generally injured or exhausted from playing in the YEC. So the schedule was almost never going to be advantageous for top 5 players or good grasscourt players. Many times over the last few years the Fed Cup final has consisted lower ranked and injured top 10 players. :shrug:

janko
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:36 PM
Very nice picture on the Fed Cup website (4th one)

http://www.itftennis.com/abouttheitf/news/newsarticle.asp?articleid=20615

All the present and former Italian players

Schiavone, Errani, Vinci and Pennetta with Garbin, Grande, Casoni, Adriana Serra-Zanetti, Farina-Elia, Pizzichini, Lubiani, Santangelo:D:D:D

You just can't hate a team with such players :hearts::hearts::hearts:

au_sports_opinion
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:47 PM
What a shame Melanie was so nice with her comments to the Williams sisters.

If Stosur and Stubbs didn't turn up for a Fed Cup Final we probably wouldn't let them back in the country.

FFS bad comments from Melanie she's just too sweet unfortunately. <3

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 10:48 PM
No, you are saying I am blaming Serena for their loss, unless I am misinterpreting you, and I haven't blamed Serena, so I don't understand why you are saying it. Obviously those who played are the ones to blame for the loss since they lost:smash:You need to pay more attention to what you post and how you post your opinions.

In an articled entitiled: "Oudin blast for Williams sisters", you agreed with Oudin's quoted statements where she placed the blame "elsewhere" (and as the article indicated, on Venus and serena).
You agreed with Oudin.
You posted that.
However, now, you suddenly say that you didn't?

Anyway, I'm glad that we now finally agree that the U.S.'s loss is no fault of Serena's. :D

In the future, you might want to think carefully before posting piggy-backed criticisms about a player you say is one of your favorites. Serena gets sh!t on enough around here, but she also has many supporters on this board who will stick up for her.

RVD
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:01 PM
Not to jump in to the argument, but Venus and Serena made their Fed Cup debuts the same year... 1999. Neither of them were ranked high enough to participate before then becacuse the top U.S players at the time were Lindsay and Monica and they were the leaders. Serena has not played Fed Cup as often as Venus and that's fine. There were times when she was very injured like 2005 (with the stress fracture in the ankle and badly out of shape) and 2007 (with the calf tear and severe thumb sprain) in 2004 she just didn't want to risk playing on clay her first few months after knee surgery.

I have seen many die-hard Serena fans say much worse about her, so I can hardly judge someones fandom based off of simple criticism. :shrug:

The only reason this is even an issue is because there is no depth to American women's tennis. In the past if the sisters weren't there you had Lindsay or Monica or Jennifer, or Megan or Lisa or Amy Frazier or some solid top 10 or top 20 player. We used to have a deep bench full of stars so if one player couldn't be there we always had a more than suitable replacement, but now it is all on 2 players. Serbia had 2 players both ranked in the top five last year and look how they did? Did Belgium win a bunch of Fed Cups with Clijsters and Henin solidly in the top 5 for years? :shrug:

It is how it is. The schedule for Fed Cup is a mess. Just when they finally have the first round and the semis at a more reasonable part of the year they put the final at an impossible time. The Fed Cup schedule had been at an inconvenient and usually injury plagued times of the year for top players for a while now. Right after Wimbledon the U.S players are typically exhausted and injured since they typically do well on grass. The end of the season they are generally injured or exhausted from playing in the YEC. So the schedule was almost never going to be advantageous for top 5 players or good grasscourt players. Many times over the last few years the Fed Cup final has consisted lower ranked and injured top 10 players. :shrug:Fair assessment (which is what this was) I have no problem with. And I agree that there are different levels of fanship, which I also have no problem with.
It's just that when a "fan" agrees with a statement made by an irate player (Oudin) who doesn't take responsibility for her own failures, and places that loss on someone else, is where I had a problem. Oudin should have been more supportive of her fellow compatriats (Venus and Serena)?
Serena and Venus played more matches this year than in previous years. At their age, that's impressive for them.
I understand that Oudin is young and will learn to be more diplomatic as time goes on. However, her comments were not one of support, but one of blame.

I just get tired of our two best players being held responsible for other player's failures.

Now IF Venus and Serena had player while recovering from the regular season, everyone would have been livid. They've done this during the regular season, and Venus exacerbated her injuries (ab tear).

Anyway, it's all good.
The sisters made the correct decision, and life goes on.

au_sports_opinion
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:02 PM
Let's be honest, the Williams sisters can get away with anything they want.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why that is.

Edinboro
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:18 PM
Ok so I came to this thread wanting to congratulate Italy on their great win and wish better luck for USA next year. 130 replies I thought, "Oh how nice of all these posters to come in and say a few nice words about the win." INSTEAD, this has turned into a boring discussion about the William Sisters who were "totally" irrelevant to Fed Cup. :rolleyes: Move on people.

Anyways CONGRATS ITALY!! :bounce::bounce: What a great year especially for Pennetta and Schiavone. I love the pictures posted earlier. Any others? :hearts::hearts:

Slammer7
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:19 PM
Fair assessment (which is what this was) I have no problem with. And I agree that there are different levels of fanship, which I also have no problem with.
It's just that when a "fan" agrees with a statement made by an irate player (Oudin) who doesn't take responsibility for her own failures, and places that loss on someone else, is where I had a problem. Oudin should have been more supportive of her fellow compatriats (Venus and Serena)?
Serena and Venus played more matches this year than in previous years. At their age, that's impressive for them.
I understand that Oudin is young and will learn to be more diplomatic as time goes on. However, her comments were not one of support, but one of blame.

I just get tired of our two best players being held responsible for other player's failures.

Now IF Venus and Serena had player while recovering from the regular season, everyone would have been livid. They've done this during the regular season, and Venus exacerbated her injuries (ab tear).

Anyway, it's all good.
The sisters made the correct decision, and life goes on.

I understand your frustration that the WS get blamed for things no matter how they turn out. In 2002 when the U.S had two FO champions in Capriati and Seles and a tie on clay against a team without a single top 50 player, Capriati got kicked off the team. Seles (who later admitted to being a little distracted after the U.S had to forfeit the 1st tie because of the late withdrawal :() lost her first match (the second rubber) and Megan Shaughnessy (Jennifer's replacement for the 3rd rubber) lost 8-6 in the third and the U.S lost. Some where actually trying to assign blame to the sisters :speakles: when they wouldn't have been chosen at the time because Capriati and Seles were seen as the two better clay courters.

Oudin was asked a very leading question this is it...

Q. Not getting into the specifics, but we all know the situation. Can you understand somebody choosing not to come play for your country and doing other things this weekend, not resting or whatever?

Although she could have handled it better, she was still upset about losing and her own apparently poor play. I give her a bit of a pass because she is just a kid and as of yet doesn't understand that the media wants controversy. I think she will learn as the years go by how to handle those bating questions.

I would say I am just happy V&S made it through the season in one piece, but that isn't really true. They made it through the season in pieces and they just held those pieces together with tape, grit and tenacity. :hearts: :worship:

Slammer7
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:21 PM
Oh and congratulations Italy. :yeah: Way to go Flavor Flavia and Franny Fran. :)

:o :lol:

youizahoe
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:27 PM
Venus you should have played :o :o :o

Bijoux0021
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:49 PM
A bit of time ago when just the mention of Serena being on the team raised concern from those that felt it unfair that she would be included because she didn't help get the team this far. Now there is this same concern that she wasn't on the team and the US lost miserablly. Can't have it both ways especially since Melanie's play is independent of Serena being on the team or not being on the team.
So typical of her detractors.

:haha: okay, thanks, just another case of wanting it both ways and finding all the ways of having Serena be the fall and bad guy. :lol:
Yep, same :bs: different day. Damned if she does. Damned if she doesn't.

Galsen
Nov 8th, 2009, 11:56 PM
Venus you should have played :o :o :o

:o

Vlover
Nov 9th, 2009, 12:28 AM
Venus you should have played :o :o :o
I'm so happy she finally learned to think of her own well being first and didn't feel obligated to play on her one leg. Those who are upset because they didn't get the chance to ride on the backs of the Sisters when it is convenient for them can cry me a river.:hysteric: Other countries support their players all year, not only for Fed Cup therefore the Sisters have no obligation to play if they don't want to. They have all right to save themselves for the next season. Too bad for those who can't live up to their hype and get their ass kicked so badly.:tape:

hdfb
Nov 9th, 2009, 12:48 AM
I love Serena but it is extremely hard to justify why she has only played 4 ties. :p Serena just doesn't care about Fed Cup. Accept it. Heckle her all you want. But Serena isn't going to lose sleep over it. She'll just continue doing what she feels is best for. And if all you Serena haters feels whats best for yourselves is to jump on TF and bash Serena, then have fun. :wavey:

Personally, after Indian Wells I'd think twice about playing Fed Cup. I don't know if that's what Serena thinks.

dreamgoddess099
Nov 9th, 2009, 12:55 AM
Crucify me, I made a mistake:o
Serena has only played first round ties since 1999. ONLY first round ties, only 4 ties altogether. Venus has played 9. There was not the intention to hate on Serena, I stated facts. I am fully aware Venus didn't play and I am upset with that. Serena is undefeated because she played weak teams, Flipkens and Caroline Maes aren't exactly GOATs. Serena has only played Fed Cup 4 times.
I don't have a problem with the facts you are stating, it's your reason behind stating them. You're simply trying to take the heat off Venus by making her seem more loyal than Serena. The only fact that matters is that Serena has played for her country several times and won every time, so she's done what she's been asked to do. Who cares how many times shes played, be grateful for that you ungrateful tennis fan.

LightWarrior
Nov 9th, 2009, 01:21 AM
FedCup is a joke. I mean if the WTA established mandatory tournaments, the ITF should do the same for Fed Cup as well when it comes to the final.

PLP
Nov 9th, 2009, 01:23 AM
The US team should be very proud of themselves for getting to the final. Well done to Mary Joe, and congrats to the Italian team!! :worship:

So, am I missing something, because I don't see any mention of Serena or Venus by Melanie. She didn't blame anyone else for losing the tie, obviously the players that want to be there should be, and the team did their best.
Mel seems like a sweet girl, I think this is being blown way out of proportion...shocking, I know...
:lol:

Slammer7
Nov 9th, 2009, 01:31 AM
FedCup is a joke. I mean if the WTA established mandatory tournaments, the ITF should do the same for Fed Cup as well when it comes to the final.

The ITF governs Davis and Fed Cups so if they were to make anything mandatory they would have to do it to Davis and Fed Cup. There is no way in hell Federer or Nadal will be forced to do anything. They just can't force the women they would have to force the Men too, and that isn't going to happen. Plus in the many decades of these competition it has been a voluntary event, if they just change the schedule to something more realistic for the players participation by the top stars might go up. :shrug:

LightWarrior
Nov 9th, 2009, 01:56 AM
The ITF governs Davis and Fed Cups so if they were to make anything mandatory they would have to do it to Davis and Fed Cup. There is no way in hell Federer or Nadal will be forced to do anything. They just can't force the women they would have to force the Men too, and that isn't going to happen. Plus in the many decades of these competition it has been a voluntary event, if they just change the schedule to something more realistic for the players participation by the top stars might go up. :shrug:

But something needs to be done about Fed Cup for it to be more popular, otherwise it will be dead soon. The David Cup has always been a prestigious event and all top players want to play it.

Slammer7
Nov 9th, 2009, 02:06 AM
But something needs to be done about Fed Cup for it to be more popular, otherwise it will be dead soon. The David Cup has always been a prestigious event and all top players want to play it.

Like Nadal in the final last year or the last two ties this year? Or Roddick after Wimbledon this year? Or Federer since 2004? Or Agassi and Sampras the last 6 or 7 years of their careers? :scratch: Players skip out on it all the time on the Men's side. The schedule is set up so that it can negatively impact a players season. It's been proposed before to just make it a 1 week event where the semis and final are played. That's how it used to be and it could be a few weeks after the U.S Open and not before or after any of those "Mandatory" WTA events. :shrug: The ITF has got to work with the players to make it so it isn't a choice between being healthy for the tour and playing Fed Cup. Also having at the end of the season and just days after the YEC really does penalize the top eight and leaves the event more likely to be ravaged by injury.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 02:21 AM
I was not the one who brought Serena into this thread :shrug:

And btw, the Venus fans have accused me of bringing Venus always into discussion, the Pova fans regularly accusing me of the same with Scharapova, and now the Serena fans are doing the same. Makes me wonder who is right :scratch:

Well if three different fan bases and without a doubt the three most opposing fan bases say this about you then :confused:

It's funny how some say the US don't need the Williams Sisters they got there without them, and after this loss they say the Williams Sisters should have shown up. The difference between the Williams Sisters and the current team USA is that they actually make it deep in tournaments, in both singles and doubles. Liezel is strictly doubles, Alexa played qualies for the most of the year, Oudin performed at the last two majors but disappeared in between, and Vania did absolutley nothing until the USO. Plus the WS had the YEC in both singles and doubles. I'm sure Melane meant no harm by her words, but you can't help but think that some of what she said was not appropriate. She had to know that they were eluding to the WS.

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 02:45 AM
You have her name wrong, it's Mary Joe Fernandez.
Actually, it's María José Fernández Godsick. ;)

ZODIAC
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:19 AM
congrats italians for beating americana soundly,eat your heart out Mary Jo Fernandes

In The Zone
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:25 AM
The US team should be very proud of themselves for getting to the final. Well done to Mary Joe, and congrats to the Italian team!! :worship:

So, am I missing something, because I don't see any mention of Serena or Venus by Melanie. She didn't blame anyone else for losing the tie, obviously the players that want to be there should be, and the team did their best.
Mel seems like a sweet girl, I think this is being blown way out of proportion...shocking, I know...
:lol:

Melanie was 100% right. Being blown out of proportion because some fans can be just as selfish as the Sisters were when it came to their decisions not to play Fed Cup. Whether it was a valid decision to not play or not doesn't matter, we see other players play injured and revolve their schedules around Fed Cup -- not the Sisters. They put themselves first, Fed Cup second. Take from that what you will but a fact is a fact.

(I am a WS fan, btw.)

ZODIAC
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:27 AM
if Oudin camaraderie she should play for France since she is of French descent,maybe she will get the closeness she wants

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:35 AM
Melanie was 100% right. Being blown out of proportion because some fans can be just as selfish as the Sisters were when it came to their decisions not to play Fed Cup. Whether it was a valid decision to not play or not doesn't matter, we see other players play injured and revolve their schedules around Fed Cup -- not the Sisters. They put themselves first, Fed Cup second. Take from that what you will but a fact is a fact.
(I am a WS fan, btw.)

And that is why they have had such longevity and success on the tour. They've made these mistakes in the past, overdoing it, which led to injuries that kept them out for an extended period of time. The USA team just needs to continue developing.

In The Zone
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:43 AM
You're absolutely right and that's selfish. They deserve every single bit of criticism they get for their Fed Cup decisions. It doesn't bother them, of course, but they deserve it.

serenafann
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:44 AM
This sounds like a script Mary Jo handed out to them for when they lost.:lol: This girl has played Fed Cup for one year, big fucking deal. That pales in comparison to the sisters who have been playing Fed Cup for their country since 1999 and have won Olympic gold in singles and doubles for their country as well. Not to mention they have represented US tennis like no others for a decade now, even when there were no other Americans in the top 100. Typical ungrateful tennis people, forever asking for more and never appreciating all that they have gotten out of the Williams sisters. Just three months ago at the US Open when Venus's foreign opponent was receiving more support than her and Oudin was making the quarterfinals and being called the only American left in the draw, they acted like they didn't even need the sisters. Now all of a sudden they want to remember that they are Americans.:rolleyes:

Well said. :)

This is just a pathetic attempt to take cheap shots at V&S too bad Oudin allowed her self to be used in the unending negative anti Williams agenda,but she is young so maybe she could be cut some slack.I agree with the thought of damned if V&S do and damned if they don't.I can imagine a hurt Venus or Serena showing up not playing to their full potential and then being blamed for the Fed Cup loss,this biased negativity unfortunately is par for the course in regards to the medias treatment of them,as if V&S are the only top players to decide not to play Fed cup or Davis Cup,but those players probably didn't have an unprofessional press trying to put them in a continual bad light over it. The bottom line in my opinion[and I am not the first person to state this] is Fed Cup[and Davis Cup]should be played every other year to give the victors a chance to enjoy their triumph,and the Fed Cup matches should be played at a less physically taxing times of the year,top players are top players because they do well during the season meaning they are usually playing deep into the latter stages of tournaments,case in point V&S YEC final appearance with both their legs strapped and in obvious physical pain they were expected after a tough time there,to then go and play against a tough Italian team... injured- ON CLAY- not either ones best surface I mean "come on".Venus and Serena have shown their national pride continually and should not be questioned in regard to that or their commitment given the right circumstances to Fed Cup.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:50 AM
You're absolutely right and that's selfish. They deserve every single bit of criticism they get for their Fed Cup decisions. It doesn't bother them, of course, but they deserve it.

Well Venus played Fed Cup immediately following her Wimbledon wins in 2005 & 2007 AND she played WTT. I don't care who you are, that is just crazy especially considering how many matches she played, how long they were, and how much traveling that is. Serena hasn't played as much, as she always seems to be injured. I just feel like they get blamed for the lack of talent and experience on team USA. If you think about it, the USA is the only country that pretty much relies on them to do it all which isn't fair.

serenafann
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:52 AM
what a beatdown by the Italians.

Had the FED Cup not been shceduled so close to YEC, maybe could MJF could have had Serena ( and maybe even Venus)

EXACTLY. :yeah:

In The Zone
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:53 AM
Well Venus played Fed Cup immediately following her Wimbledon wins in 2005 & 2007 AND she played WTT. I don't care who you are, that is just crazy especially considering how many matches she played, how long they were, and how much traveling that is. Serena hasn't played as much, as she always seems to be injured. I just feel like they get blamed for the lack of talent and experience on team USA. If you think about it, the USA is the only country that pretty much relies on them to do it all which isn't fair.

We're not talking about 2005 and 2007. We're talking about 2009 Fed Cup final. FINAL. Not a semifinal or quarterfinal. And again, you are talking about decisions that best suit them, not their country. Selfish. And I would hope Team USA would rely on the best two players in the world. :weirdo:

Like I said earlier, the decision may have been the right one for Venus and Serena to make but they deserve every bit of criticism they get for it. You are defending Venus and Serena, the two individuals. You are missing the point that their decisions affect others and while it is best for them, it is not the best for everyone else. Defend them all you want, they deserve to be called out for not putting their country first the way other players do for their countries. If that means longer careers, etc., that's SELFISH. Look up the definition of selfish.

In The Zone
Nov 9th, 2009, 03:59 AM
I'd also like to make the distinction between Venus and Serena Williams. Venus has, like has been said, put Fed Cup in her schedule at many times in her career. The same cannot be said for Serena, who also conveniently had talk shows/book appearances lined up around the same time of Fed Cup. (Those do not get planned only days in advance)

It is what it is, I guess. :shrug:

brickhousesupporter
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:05 AM
We're not talking about 2005 and 2007. We're talking about 2009 Fed Cup final. FINAL. Not a semifinal or quarterfinal. And again, you are talking about decisions that best suit them, not their country. Selfish. And I would hope Team USA would rely on the best two players in the world. :weirdo:

Like I said earlier, the decision may have been the right one for Venus and Serena to make but they deserve every bit of criticism they get for it. You are defending Venus and Serena, the two individuals. You are missing the point that their decisions affect others and while it is best for them, it is not the best for everyone else. Defend them all you want, they deserve to be called out for not putting their country first the way other players do for their countries. If that means longer careers, etc., that's SELFISH. Look up the definition of selfish.
So let me get this right....it is selfish of them not to want to out and play injured on their worst surface, and possible affect their preparation for the following year, because their country (country's tennis association) needs them. The same country that openly root for their opponents in matches at their home grand slam. Why should they extend themselves and risk further injury for a country that can't be bothered to root for them when they are playing?

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:06 AM
We're not talking about 2005 and 2007. We're talking about 2009 Fed Cup final. FINAL. Not a semifinal or quarterfinal. And again, you are talking about decisions that best suit them, not their country. Selfish. And I would hope Team USA would rely on the best two players in the world. :weirdo:

Like I said earlier, the decision may have been the right one for Venus and Serena to make but they deserve every bit of criticism they get for it. You are defending Venus and Serena, the two individuals. You are missing the point that their decisions affect others and while it is best for them, it is not the best for everyone else. Defend them all you want, they deserve to be called out for not putting their country first the way other players do for their countries. If that means longer careers, etc., that's SELFISH. Look up the definition of selfish.

A team like Russia could be missing all there top ten players and still win handly 5-0. They shouldn't always rely on them to save the day. I just think it is quite unfair that you put them on a pedastool that is quite unrealistic. I think it's selfish of others to expect them to wear and tear their bodies even more just to satisfy their own needs. Plenty of other players have declined Fed Cup for various reasons. It just seems whenever the WS do, it's such a controversy. It's also regardless of what round it is :rolleyes:

HRHoliviasmith
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:07 AM
Well Venus played Fed Cup immediately following her Wimbledon wins in 2005 & 2007 AND she played WTT. I don't care who you are, that is just crazy especially considering how many matches she played, how long they were, and how much traveling that is. Serena hasn't played as much, as she always seems to be injured. I just feel like they get blamed for the lack of talent and experience on team USA. If you think about it, the USA is the only country that pretty much relies on them to do it all which isn't fair.

exactly.

HRHoliviasmith
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:11 AM
A team like Russia could be missing all there top ten players and still win handly 5-0. They shouldn't always rely on them to save the day. I just think it is quite unfair that you put them on a pedastool that is quite unrealistic. I think it's selfish of others to expect them to wear and tear their bodies even more just to satisfy their own needs. Plenty of other players have declined Fed Cup for various reasons. It just seems whenever the WS do, it's such a controversy. It's also regardless of what round it is :rolleyes:

:worship: very good post!

even if serena had played and lost, she more than likely would have been accused of not giving her all since it's not a grand slam. :rolleyes:

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:12 AM
So let me get this right....it is selfish of them not to want to out and play injured on their worst surface, and possible affect their preparation for the following year, because their country (country's tennis association) needs them. The same country that openly root for their opponents in matches at their home grand slam. Why should they extend themselves and risk further injury for a country that can't be bothered to root for them when they are playing?

It is when they want to represent their country in the Olympics...but that's only because they are selfish and want a gold medal for themselves and not the USA. In my opinion they shouldn't be allowed to play because they don't do it for their country only for themselves and DON'T EVEN TRY AND SAY that the Olympics is not about representing your country.

BlameSerena
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:14 AM
I'd also like to make the distinction between Venus and Serena Williams. Venus has, like has been said, put Fed Cup in her schedule at many times in her career. The same cannot be said for Serena, who also conveniently had talk shows/book appearances lined up around the same time of Fed Cup. (Those do not get planned only days in advance)

It is what it is, I guess. :shrug:

Actually, it's rather common to score appearances on television programs depending on who you are and timing. Often times bookings are made a day or two, even hours before the taping is to take place. I know because I've been in this position many times. Sometimes people don't show up and need to be quickly replaced, or people who have confirmed but need to cancel will call a day, maybe two in advance to let the producers know. There is then a back list of people (and if your publicist is in the know), you are made aware of these cancellations so you can get your client in. So, it doesn't always have to be a drawn out, pre-planned appearance. Not saying I know what Serena's case was, but just FYI. And just because Serena pulled out doesn't mean it was arranged in advance.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:15 AM
A team like Russia could be missing all there top ten players and still win handly 5-0. They shouldn't always rely on them to save the day. I just think it is quite unfair that you put them on a pedastool that is quite unrealistic. I think it's selfish of others to expect them to wear and tear their bodies even more just to satisfy their own needs. Plenty of other players have declined Fed Cup for various reasons. It just seems whenever the WS do, it's such a controversy. It's also regardless of what round it is :rolleyes:

They just need to come out and say they don't want to play Fed Cup then there won't be any controversy. Its really as simple as that. Don't commit and then pull out when you have a promotion for your book the same week and say that you are pulling out because you are injured. Who is she trying to fool? The only people they are fooling is themselves and their fans. Plain and simple its a character issue. If they want to be selfish and prolong their careers that's perfectly fine. Just admit it and prepare for the backlash. Come out and say they won't be playing Fed Cup unless its to qualify for the Olympics and deal with the reprecussions. At least I'd respect them more for that because they'd be honest for once.

AkademiQ
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:21 AM
It is when they want to represent their country in the Olympics...but that's only because they are selfish and want a gold medal for themselves and not the USA. In my opinion they shouldn't be allowed to play because they don't do it for their country only for themselves and DON'T EVEN TRY AND SAY that the Olympics is not about representing your country.

You're the one saying the Olympics is not about representing your country. Read your post again so you can make up your mind on what you're actually ranting about.

They just need to come out and say they don't want to play Fed Cup then there won't be any controversy. Its really as simple as that. Don't commit and then pull out when you have a promotion for your book the same week and say that you are pulling out because you are injured. Who is she trying to fool? The only people they are fooling is themselves and their fans. Plain and simple its a character issue. If they want to be selfish and prolong their careers that's perfectly fine. Just admit it and prepare for the backlash. Come out and say they won't be playing Fed Cup unless its to qualify for the Olympics and deal with the reprecussions. At least I'd respect them more for that because they'd be honest for once.

:scratch: Do you even know what you mean? One sentence you say if they come out and say they don't want to play, there is no controversy, but then the other you say they'll be backlash What's up with all these stipulations with Fed Cup? Can you come up with one cohesive reason instead of going all over the place like the usual Williams detractors? :lol: And you're so lying with that last part be honest with yourself.

Slammer7
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:23 AM
We're not talking about 2005 and 2007. We're talking about 2009 Fed Cup final. FINAL. Not a semifinal or quarterfinal. And again, you are talking about decisions that best suit them, not their country. Selfish. And I would hope Team USA would rely on the best two players in the world. :weirdo:

Like I said earlier, the decision may have been the right one for Venus and Serena to make but they deserve every bit of criticism they get for it. You are defending Venus and Serena, the two individuals. You are missing the point that their decisions affect others and while it is best for them, it is not the best for everyone else. Defend them all you want, they deserve to be called out for not putting their country first the way other players do for their countries. If that means longer careers, etc., that's SELFISH. Look up the definition of selfish.

Did Roddick put "country first" (and OMG are you now John McCain? :speakles:) when he didn't play after Wimbledon? Did Nadal put "country first" when her didn't play last years final? Did Federer put "country first" when he told Switzerland to suck and egg for how many years and then committed and then bailed on them this year to? This is Fed Cup not military service. Kuznetsova was a good Fed Cup soldier for years, but she has missed ties recently, so has Dementieva.

They are both injured if they had broken bones some people here would still criticize them and say "We don't give a damn if your leg snaps in half during the match you should still play." :rolleyes: So let me ask you say Venus played tore cartilage in that injured knee or tore her patella tendon (which is the next possible step with all the inflammation) and missed most of the next season if not all of it. Would her "selflessness" get her a free cup of coffee or any damned appreciation whatsoever? Did she get a medal for playing in 2005 or 2007 after Wimbledon? They don't deserve all the criticism they are getting because some of these same people didn't want them to be "allowed" to play in the Fed Cup final anyway. Some of criticism is fine, but when the underlying circumstances aren't taken into account that's unfair. I don't think they could have won their matches anyway with the state of their bodies, the travel, media and surface all being taken into account. So I think the U.S would not have been better off with two injured, tired and exhausted (both mentally and physically) players playing on 2 good legs between them and on their worst surface to boot, as well as playing against 2 very good clay courters. :shrug: This is not football where guys go out and play with broken hands and concussions only to end up being crippled in their 30's and experience dementia in their 50's. :( This is tennis a country club sport and I respect the limited aspects of the warrior mentality that we have in this sport, but I don't expect players to go out and play on damaged knees and strained thighs if they can avoid it.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:27 AM
You're the one saying the Olympics is not about representing your country. Read your post again so you can make up your mind on what you're actually ranting about.



:scratch: Do you even know what you mean? One sentence you say if they come out and say they don't want to play, there is no controversy, but then the other you say they'll be backlash What's up with all these stipulations with Fed Cup? :lol: And you're so lying with that last part Be honest with yourself.

You're an idiot. Read my post again. I'll explain it ALL to you again so you can process it through your little brain. I'm saying the only reason they play Fed Cup is to qualify for the Olympics. Which should be about representing your country as is Fed Cup but for the sisters its just to say they have won an Olympic medal. If they could they would play represent any country in the world in order to get a medal because they want to say they have an olympic medal.

If they put it all out there and said they would take a year off their would be far less backlash then them pulling their stunt of saying they play and care and then not. AND I'm not lying...you don't know me and you don't know what I feel. I'll give you a clear cut example to. I am a Harkleroad fan and I was hoping she was going to represent the US in the Olympics but she came out and said that it wasn't a big deal to her and she wouldn't go and would give up her spot if she was choosen for the team. Was I disappointed? Yes. Do I hold it against her. No. At least she was honest.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:29 AM
It is when they want to represent their country in the Olympics...but that's only because they are selfish and want a gold medal for themselves and not the USA. In my opinion they shouldn't be allowed to play because they don't do it for their country only for themselves and DON'T EVEN TRY AND SAY that the Olympics is not about representing your country.

The Olympics in which the WS have participated have been in 2000, 2004, 2008. Serena not participating in 2004. Venus has played Fed Cup in 1999,2003,2004,2005,2007. Serena has in 1999,2003,2007. In my eyes Venus has put herself out there for the team when she can. Serena has only participated the year before the Olympics which is why some say she only does it for the Olympics. She still signed on for the team in 2005 when she was injured, and said she as willing to play if needed but that team had Davenport and Venus. So then what was her incentive in playing the Hopman Cup in 2003 & 2007:confused: She did it for her country. Saying she doesn't care about her country is just completely inaccurate.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:31 AM
They just need to come out and say they don't want to play Fed Cup then there won't be any controversy. Its really as simple as that. Don't commit and then pull out when you have a promotion for your book the same week and say that you are pulling out because you are injured. Who is she trying to fool? The only people they are fooling is themselves and their fans. Plain and simple its a character issue. If they want to be selfish and prolong their careers that's perfectly fine. Just admit it and prepare for the backlash. Come out and say they won't be playing Fed Cup unless its to qualify for the Olympics and deal with the reprecussions. At least I'd respect them more for that because they'd be honest for once.

Something tells me they aren't quite seeking your respect.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:31 AM
Did Roddick put "country first" (and OMG are you now John McCain? :speakles:) when he didn't play after Wimbledon? Did Nadal put "country first" when her didn't play last years final? Did Federer put "country first" when he told Switzerland to suck and egg for how many years and then committed and then bailed on them this year to? This is Fed Cup not military service. Kuznetsova was a good Fed Cup soldier for years, but she has missed ties recently, so has Dementieva.

They are both injured if they had broken bones some people here would still criticize them and say "We don't give a damn if your leg snaps in half during the match you should still play." :rolleyes: So let me ask you say Venus played tore cartilage in that injured knee or tore her patella tendon (which is the next possible step with all the inflammation) and missed most of the next season if not all of it. Would her "selflessness" get her a free cup of coffee or any damned appreciation whatsoever? Did she get a medal for playing in 2005 or 2007 after Wimbledon? They don't deserve all the criticism they are getting because some of these same people didn't want them to be "allowed" to play in the Fed Cup final anyway. Some of criticism is fine, but when the underlying circumstances aren't taken into account that's unfair. I don't think they could have won their matches anyway with the state of their bodies, the travel, media and surface all being taken into account. So I think the U.S would not have been better off with two injured, tired and exhausted (both mentally and physically) players playing on 2 good legs between them and on their worst surface to boot, as well as playing against 2 very good clay courters. :shrug: This is not football where guys go out and play with broken hands and concussions only to end up being crippled in their 30's and experience dementia in their 50's. :( This is tennis a country club sport and I respect the limited aspects of the warrior mentality that we have in this sport, but I don't expect players to go out and play on damaged knees and strained thighs if they can avoid it.


Wow are you overdramatic. Roddick didn't play for a month after Wimbledon and Nadal missed the YEC and the final last year. If the season was still going on then maybe your argument would be valid. Right now you're comparing apples with oranges. As for the Russians they have a system to balance which players are competing for which round because THEY ALL want to contribute at one point or another during the season. The sisters could do the same. One play first round the other play quarters etc, etc. That is if they really cared.

ZODIAC
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:31 AM
I am happy the Americans lost..f0rza italiana

HRHoliviasmith
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:33 AM
Did Roddick put "country first" (and OMG are you now John McCain? :speakles:) when he didn't play after Wimbledon? Did Nadal put "country first" when her didn't play last years final? Did Federer put "country first" when he told Switzerland to suck and egg for how many years and then committed and then bailed on them this year to? This is Fed Cup not military service. Kuznetsova was a good Fed Cup soldier for years, but she has missed ties recently, so has Dementieva.

They are both injured if they had broken bones some people here would still criticize them and say "We don't give a damn if your leg snaps in half during the match you should still play." :rolleyes: So let me ask you say Venus played tore cartilage in that injured knee or tore her patella tendon (which is the next possible step with all the inflammation) and missed most of the next season if not all of it. Would her "selflessness" get her a free cup of coffee or any damned appreciation whatsoever? Did she get a medal for playing in 2005 or 2007 after Wimbledon? They don't deserve all the criticism they are getting because some of these same people didn't want them to be "allowed" to play in the Fed Cup final anyway. Some of criticism is fine, but when the underlying circumstances aren't taken into account that's unfair. I don't think they could have won their matches anyway with the state of their bodies, the travel, media and surface all being taken into account. So I think the U.S would not have been better off with two injured, tired and exhausted (both mentally and physically) players playing on 2 good legs between them and on their worst surface to boot, as well as playing against 2 very good clay courters. :shrug: This is not football where guys go out and play with broken hands and concussions only to end up being crippled in their 30's and experience dementia in their 50's. :( This is tennis a country club sport and I respect the limited aspects of the warrior mentality that we have in this sport, but I don't expect players to go out and play on damaged knees and strained thighs if they can avoid it.

:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship:

:spit: @ bolded part. :sobbing:

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:34 AM
You're an idiot. Read my post again. I'll explain it ALL to you again so you can process it through your little brain. I'm saying the only reason they play Fed Cup is to qualify for the Olympics. Which should be about representing your country as is Fed Cup but for the sisters its just to say they have won an Olympic medal. If they could they would play represent any country in the world in order to get a medal because they want to say they have an olympic medal.

If they put it all out there and said they would take a year off their would be far less backlash then them pulling their stunt of saying they play and care and then not. AND I'm not lying...you don't know me and you don't know what I feel. I'll give you a clear cut example to. I am a Harkleroad fan and I was hoping she was going to represent the US in the Olympics but she came out and said that it wasn't a big deal to her and she wouldn't go and would give up her spot if she was choosen for the team. Was I disappointed? Yes. Do I hold it against her. No. At least she was honest.

Didn't she have a photoshoot scheduled during the Olympics :tape:

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:34 AM
Something tells me they aren't quite seeking your respect.

They aren't seeking anyones respect...but they also don't want to be critized...CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS...apparently they are just like the rest of America according to previous posters.

AkademiQ
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:36 AM
:rolleyes:You're an idiot. Read my post again. I'll explain it ALL to you again so you can process it through your little brain. I'm saying the only reason they play Fed Cup is to qualify for the Olympics. Which should be about representing your country as is Fed Cup but for the sisters its just to say they have won an Olympic medal. If they could they would play represent any country in the world in order to get a medal because they want to say they have an olympic medal.

I read your post and I asked you to re-read your own post because your thoughts were pretty scattered. When you play for the Olympics you represent your country. I see you've gone from just playing stupid to taking it in as an artform.


If they put it all out there and said they would take a year off their would be far less backlash then them pulling their stunt of saying they play and care and then not.

:confused: do you even know what you're saying here? I mean, do these words in this scrambled sentence make sense to you when you somehow formulate it in your mind and then type it?


AND I'm not lying...you don't know me and you don't know what I feel.

:spit: I know enough about you to know you're a hypocrite. You post like you know what is in Venus or Serena's minds or heart regarding their country, Olympics and Fed Cup. You don't know either of them and you don't know how they feel so why are you assuming that you do? :rolleyes:

I'll give you a clear cut example to. I am a Harkleroad fan and I was hoping she was going to represent the US in the Olympics but she came out and said that it wasn't a big deal to her and she wouldn't go and would give up her spot if she was choosen for the team. Was I disappointed? Yes. Do I hold it against her. No. At least she was honest.

I don't care who you're a fan of. Ashley wouldn't have done a thing at the Olympics anyway so it was good she knew her own limitations and as a fan, you accept that. Great for the both of you.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:37 AM
Wow are you overdramatic. Roddick didn't play for a month after Wimbledon and Nadal missed the YEC and the final last year. If the season was still going on then maybe your argument would be valid. Right now you're comparing apples with oranges. As for the Russians they have a system to balance which players are competing for which round because THEY ALL want to contribute at one point or another during the season. The sisters could do the same. One play first round the other play quarters etc, etc. That is if they really cared.

Wrong. Where have Sharapova and Safina been? The fact is that the Russians possess depth which Team USA, minus the Williams Sisters, do not.

pokey camp
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:40 AM
:rolleyes: Whatever, whatever. Serena and Venus especially don't owe the FedCup team anything. Now more than ever they should focus on staying healthy. Period. Maria does the same thing and I hope she continues to do so. Play when it works for her and skip it when it doesn't. Until they work out a more reasonable schedule that's how every player should approach FedCup.

Oudin needs to zip it when comes to questioning Serena's patriotism. If she actually becomes any good she'll be pulling out of FedCup one day too. :tape: She should focus on her own game instead. Serena not being there didn't make her hit 94 UEs in 2 matches. This girl is a UE machine and she's not good enough to hit that many UE's and win.

Slammer7
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:46 AM
Wow are you overdramatic. Roddick didn't play for a month after Wimbledon and Nadal missed the YEC and the final last year. If the season was still going on then maybe your argument would be valid. Right now you're comparing apples with oranges. As for the Russians they have a system to balance which players are competing for which round because THEY ALL want to contribute at one point or another during the season. The sisters could do the same. One play first round the other play quarters etc, etc. That is if they really cared.

You are very keen at name calling and put downs aren't you? Considering that there aren't many major tournaments after Wimbledon for about a month that explains his one month absence. Djokovic didn't play a month after Wimbledon was he injured too. My point was that all those men save Federer were injured and didn't play because of that. :tape: If you read the post I was responding to you would have understood that. :rolleyes: The season ended a week ago so what is your point. Are people supposed to miraculously heal in a week? Is the wear and tear of a full season not supposed to hava a physically deteriorating effect? And your point about the Russians proves my point "THEY ALL" that's just it there are over a dozen credible candidates for a Russian Fed Cup team whereas the U.S only has 2. You cannot win a tie with one credible player see Venus 2005 and Venus 2007. If the U.S had the depth of the Russians this WS participation would not be a problem because they could have credible fill ins. If Russia was in the same boat as the U.S people would have crucified Dementieva and Safina for not playing as the 2 highest ranked Russians at the time.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 05:33 AM
Do you not think that Venus or Serena could have won both of their singles matches and then won in doubles paired with Huber? I think they would be favorites against most countries in this scenario with MAYBE the exception of Russia. If you don't then maybe you don't have as much faith in their tennis abilities as me. I'll say it again...they can not play all the want just be honest about it. Also Djokovic did play a tournament albeit in doubles with his brother in Umag post Wimbledon and he didn't have to play Davis Cup. Federer was very open about not wanting to play Davis Cup and concentrate on his singles career. If the sisters did the same thing I'd respect them for it but they don't. Therefore they need to take their lickings and call it a day.

You are very keen at name calling and put downs aren't you? Considering that there aren't many major tournaments after Wimbledon for about a month that explains his one month absence. Djokovic didn't play a month after Wimbledon was he injured too. My point was that all those men save Federer were injured and didn't play because of that. :tape: If you read the post I was responding to you would have understood that. :rolleyes: The season ended a week ago so what is your point. Are people supposed to miraculously heal in a week? Is the wear and tear of a full season not supposed to hava a physically deteriorating effect? And your point about the Russians proves my point "THEY ALL" that's just it there are over a dozen credible candidates for a Russian Fed Cup team whereas the U.S only has 2. You cannot win a tie with one credible player see Venus 2005 and Venus 2007. If the U.S had the depth of the Russians this WS participation would not be a problem because they could have credible fill ins. If Russia was in the same boat as the U.S people would have crucified Dementieva and Safina for not playing as the 2 highest ranked Russians at the time.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 05:39 AM
Wrong. Where have Sharapova and Safina been? The fact is that the Russians possess depth which Team USA, minus the Williams Sisters, do not.

Sharapova and Safina both played in 2008 along with the rest of the Russians. They didn't make it far enough this year so who knows what would have happened if they had progressed but Dementieva, Kuznetsova and Petrova all played and I believe Sharapova was injured for the majority of the year right? So they only ones that didn't were Safina and the also injured Zvonareva. Also I believe you can almost always see the others in the crowd supporting the team. When have you ever seen the sisters at a tie? Regardless, the fact is the Sisters really don't give a damn about Fed Cup or their country.

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 05:40 AM
And your point about the Russians proves my point "THEY ALL" that's just it there are over a dozen credible candidates for a Russian Fed Cup team whereas the U.S only has 2. You cannot win a tie with one credible player see Venus 2005 and Venus 2007.
Team USA won TWO ties this year without the aforementioned "credible players." Care to explain that?

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 05:44 AM
Sharapova and Safina both played in 2008 along with the rest of the Russians. They didn't make it far enough this year so who knows what would have happened if they had progressed but Dementieva, Kuznetsova and Petrova all played and I believe Sharapova was injured for the majority of the year right? So they only ones that didn't were Safina and the also injured Zvonareva. Also I believe you can almost always see the others in the crowd supporting the team. When have you ever seen the sisters at a tie? Regardless, the fact is the Sisters really don't give a damn about Fed Cup or their country.

The fact of the matter is like I said. Team USA lacks depth which makes them vulnerabe when facing nations with other top players.

The Prophet
Nov 9th, 2009, 05:45 AM
I am happy the Americans lost..f0rza italiana

:weirdo:

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 05:48 AM
The Olympics in which the WS have participated have been in 2000, 2004, 2008. Serena not participating in 2004. Venus has played Fed Cup in 1999,2003,2004,2005,2007. Serena has in 1999,2003,2007. In my eyes Venus has put herself out there for the team when she can. Serena has only participated the year before the Olympics which is why some say she only does it for the Olympics. She still signed on for the team in 2005 when she was injured, and said she as willing to play if needed but that team had Davenport and Venus. So then what was her incentive in playing the Hopman Cup in 2003 & 2007:confused: She did it for her country. Saying she doesn't care about her country is just completely inaccurate.
http://hopmancup.com/?id=841

There's prize money involved in Hopman Cup.

AnomyBC
Nov 9th, 2009, 05:49 AM
Team USA won TWO ties this year without the aforementioned "credible players." Care to explain that?

You're not gonna get an easy answer for that one. Tennis experts will probably be trying to figure that out for many years to come :lol:

My personal theory is that Mary Jo Fernandez made some kind of deal with Satan, but I don't really have any evidence to back that up :)

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:03 AM
http://hopmancup.com/?id=841

There's prize money involved in Hopman Cup.

As there is in every tournament of the year. :wavey:

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:09 AM
As there is in every tournament of the year. :wavey:
You posted that Serena played Hopman Cup for her country. I'm just showing you the real reason why she and everyone else play Hopman Cup. By the way, unlike regular tournaments, there are no ranking points involved in Hopman Cup, and unlike Fed Cup, the matches don't count on the players' won-loss records. That, my friend, is what is known as an "exhibition."

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:19 AM
You posted that Serena played Hopman Cup for her country. I'm just showing you the real reason why she and everyone else play Hopman Cup. By the way, unlike regular tournaments, there are no ranking points involved in Hopman Cup, and unlike Fed Cup, the matches don't count on the players' won-loss records. That, my friend, is what is known as an "exhibition."

So Serena told you she played Hopman Cup for the money?

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:21 AM
So Serena told you she played Hopman Cup for the money?
No. Did she tell you that she didn't?

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:28 AM
No. Did she tell you that she didn't?

Based off interviews, she has stated she loves playing for the USA. It's up to you rather you choose to believe her or not. So I will believe her, you won't, and I won't lose any sleep over it. :)

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:33 AM
Based off interviews, she has stated she loves playing for the USA. It's up to you rather you choose to believe her or not. So I will believe her, you won't, and I won't lose any sleep over it. :)
http://www.fedcup.com/teams/player.asp?player=20007765

If she loves it, why does she do it so infrequently?

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:46 AM
http://www.fedcup.com/teams/player.asp?player=20007765

If she loves it, why does she do it so infrequently?

Like I said, believe what you want to. I'm obviously not going to change your mind so stand by your opinion and I'll stand by mine.

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:03 AM
Like I said, believe what you want to. I'm obviously not going to change your mind so stand by your opinion and I'll stand by mine.
I'm not standing by an opinion, as evidenced by the links I provided for you.

DOUBLEFIST
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:12 AM
Serena has played enough Fed Cup (and obviously Vee too).

The Sisters are older now. It's time for the next generation to step up.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:13 AM
I'm not standing by an opinion, as evidenced by the links I provided for you.

You provided links about prize money and how often she played. That gives no evidence on what I was refrencing. You stated she doesn't care about her country, which is your opinion. I stated she does, which is mine.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:19 AM
The fact of the matter is like I said. Team USA lacks depth which makes them vulnerabe when facing nations with other top players.

You completely misunderstanding me. Its not a question of whether we win or not. Its a matter of having our best players available in order to win. Russia doesn't switch off because their players are tired. They do it to give them all an opportunity to play for their country. As I stated before. Even if it was all about winning with one sister and Huber as their doubles partner we'd have a pretty good shot at winning against almost any country with MAYBE the exception of Russia.

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:23 AM
You provided links about prize money and how often she played. That gives no evidence on what I was refrencing. You stated she doesn't care about her country, which is your opinion. I stated she does, which is mine.
When did I state Serena doesn't care about her country. Please, please, PLEASE show me that post.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:23 AM
You provided links about prize money and how often she played. That gives no evidence on what I was refrencing. You stated she doesn't care about her country, which is your opinion. I stated she does, which is mine.

Hopman Cup is a meaningless exhibition where players are given TONS of incentive in the form of prize money to play and are guaranteed valuable matches on a court similiar to the Australian Open prior to the first grand slam. It has nothing to do with representing ones country. If it did why doesn't Australia always have their top players on their team representing them as they do for Fed Cup and Davis Cup? Has Venus even played Hopman Cup? Serena does her act their too. I don't think there has been a player in history that has had to have a sub for their first match because they couldn't make it to the first rubber due to "illness".

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:26 AM
Serena has played enough Fed Cup (and obviously Vee too).
Four ties in 10 years is enough?

The Sisters are older now. It's time for the next generation to step up.
You do realize that they have to play at least one Fed Cup tie in 2011 in order to qualify for the Olympics in 2012, right?

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:27 AM
You completely misunderstanding me. Its not a question of whether we win or not. Its a matter of having our best players available in order to win. Russia doesn't switch off because their players are tired. They do it to give them all an opportunity to play for their country. As I stated before. Even if it was all about winning with one sister and Huber as their doubles partner we'd have a pretty good shot at winning against almost any country with MAYBE the exception of Russia.

I understand what you are saying better now and I just wanna clear my point. I realize the goal is to get the best players to play, which for team USA are Venus & Serena. However, I feel that if a team like Russia, is missing Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Safina, Zvonareva, Sharapova. They can still compromise a team with Vesnina, Kleybanova, Makarova, Kirilenko, Pavlyunchenkova, Kudryavtseva, Petrova, etc. Russia has more variety and as a whole better players. Without their top players they still are a force to be recokned with. If Venus and Serena choose not to play, the USA is automatically the underdog. They just are put on an unfair pedastool. I have feeling that even the russian players are playing in spite of the Olympics. Sharapova obviously is, Safina played her tie for the Olympics, Dementieva has personally decided to cut back on Fed Cup. What I ultimately am saying is that Team USA just needs to build up more players who can win in the big ties without the Williams Sisters.

Apoleb
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:29 AM
Who cares about Fedcup? Would winning the Fedcup really elevate your country? It's a non-event atm, and putting it right after the YEC doesn't help a lot either.

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:36 AM
Who cares about Fedcup? Would winning the Fedcup really elevate your country? It's a non-event atm, and putting it right after the YEC doesn't help a lot either.
The players who participated care. The people in the stands who bought tickets care. It is not, as you put it, a "non-event."

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:42 AM
Hopman Cup is a meaningless exhibition where players are given TONS of incentive in the form of prize money to play and are guaranteed valuable matches on a court similiar to the Australian Open prior to the first grand slam. It has nothing to do with representing ones country. If it did why doesn't Australia always have their top players on their team representing them as they do for Fed Cup and Davis Cup? Has Venus even played Hopman Cup? Serena does her act their too. I don't think there has been a player in history that has had to have a sub for their first match because they couldn't make it to the first rubber due to "illness".

Because players know their bodies better than we do. No Vee hasn't played the Hopman Cup, but she has done what she can for Fed Cup. If the scheduling was better, then it wouldn't be so taxing on them. Other players have said they enjoy representing their countries, ad if you choose to believe that's not the reason then like I said before, believe what you want. Fed Cup just isn't a priority as much as it used to be. The game has evovlved and the tour is more taxing physically and mentally than it used to be, which makes it harder for top players to compete.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:43 AM
Four ties in 10 years is enough?


You do realize that they have to play at least one Fed Cup tie in 2011 in order to qualify for the Olympics in 2012, right?

Ok, so they still have plenty of time to fufill that requirement.

darrinbaker00
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:49 AM
Ok, so they still have plenty of time to fufill that requirement.
So you're conceding that they play Fed Cup because they're required to for the Olympics and not because they want to. One step down, 11 to go. ;)

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:53 AM
So you're conceding that they play Fed Cup because they're required to for the Olympics and not because they want to. One step down, 11 to go. ;)

:confused::confused::confused:

I'm saying that there are plenty of ties left to play, that they can play.

RandomShot
Nov 9th, 2009, 08:31 AM
:yeah:

ZODIAC
Nov 9th, 2009, 11:43 AM
Serena and Vee did the right thing they listened to their bodies,MJF should work with what she has and shut up..

Matt01
Nov 9th, 2009, 12:07 PM
Serena has played enough Fed Cup (and obviously Vee too).

The Sisters are older now. It's time for the next generation to step up.


If that was true then why did Serena say that she desperately wants to play but then pulled out at the last minute? :tape:

BlameSerena
Nov 9th, 2009, 12:40 PM
Did Roddick put "country first" (and OMG are you now John McCain? :speakles:) when he didn't play after Wimbledon? Did Nadal put "country first" when her didn't play last years final? Did Federer put "country first" when he told Switzerland to suck and egg for how many years and then committed and then bailed on them this year to? This is Fed Cup not military service. Kuznetsova was a good Fed Cup soldier for years, but she has missed ties recently, so has Dementieva.

They are both injured if they had broken bones some people here would still criticize them and say "We don't give a damn if your leg snaps in half during the match you should still play." :rolleyes: So let me ask you say Venus played tore cartilage in that injured knee or tore her patella tendon (which is the next possible step with all the inflammation) and missed most of the next season if not all of it. Would her "selflessness" get her a free cup of coffee or any damned appreciation whatsoever? Did she get a medal for playing in 2005 or 2007 after Wimbledon? They don't deserve all the criticism they are getting because some of these same people didn't want them to be "allowed" to play in the Fed Cup final anyway. Some of criticism is fine, but when the underlying circumstances aren't taken into account that's unfair. I don't think they could have won their matches anyway with the state of their bodies, the travel, media and surface all being taken into account. So I think the U.S would not have been better off with two injured, tired and exhausted (both mentally and physically) players playing on 2 good legs between them and on their worst surface to boot, as well as playing against 2 very good clay courters. :shrug: This is not football where guys go out and play with broken hands and concussions only to end up being crippled in their 30's and experience dementia in their 50's. :( This is tennis a country club sport and I respect the limited aspects of the warrior mentality that we have in this sport, but I don't expect players to go out and play on damaged knees and strained thighs if they can avoid it.

Thank you. Nothing else has to be said.
:rolleyes:

I read your post and I asked you to re-read your own post because your thoughts were pretty scattered. When you play for the Olympics you represent your country. I see you've gone from just playing stupid to taking it in as an artform.




:confused: do you even know what you're saying here? I mean, do these words in this scrambled sentence make sense to you when you somehow formulate it in your mind and then type it?




:spit: I know enough about you to know you're a hypocrite. You post like you know what is in Venus or Serena's minds or heart regarding their country, Olympics and Fed Cup. You don't know either of them and you don't know how they feel so why are you assuming that you do? :rolleyes:



I don't care who you're a fan of. Ashley wouldn't have done a thing at the Olympics anyway so it was good she knew her own limitations and as a fan, you accept that. Great for the both of you.
:spit:

brickhousesupporter
Nov 9th, 2009, 01:14 PM
Hopman Cup is a meaningless exhibition where players are given TONS of incentive in the form of prize money to play and are guaranteed valuable matches on a court similiar to the Australian Open prior to the first grand slam. It has nothing to do with representing ones country. If it did why doesn't Australia always have their top players on their team representing them as they do for Fed Cup and Davis Cup? Has Venus even played Hopman Cup? Serena does her act their too. I don't think there has been a player in history that has had to have a sub for their first match because they couldn't make it to the first rubber due to "illness".
Neither does Fed Cup :tape:

Fantasy Hero
Nov 9th, 2009, 01:58 PM
i was away from home so i didn't watch that...congrats Italy :woohoo:
and congratulations Flavia, such a nice year ending :yeah:

iyadakat
Nov 9th, 2009, 02:49 PM
Congrats Italy

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:42 PM
Neither does Fed Cup :tape:

Apparently it does for all the other players in the world. The Russians, Italians, Spanish, etc all say the thing that makes Fed Cup special is that they work together as a team to help their COUNTRY win as opposed to normally on the tour when they are just playing for themselves. If you're that ignorant to believe they all just play Fed Cup for the hell of it you're even more stupid than I originally thought.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:45 PM
Apparently it does for all the other players in the world. The Russians, Italians, Spanish, etc all say the thing that makes Fed Cup special is that they work together as a team to help their COUNTRY win as opposed to normally on the tour when they are just playing for themselves. If you're that ignorant to believe they all just play Fed Cup for the hell of it you're even more stupid than I originally thought.

All hail capriati rules. This poster has the insane ability to read players' minds. :eek:

miffedmax
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:49 PM
You posted that Serena played Hopman Cup for her country. I'm just showing you the real reason why she and everyone else play Hopman Cup. By the way, unlike regular tournaments, there are no ranking points involved in Hopman Cup, and unlike Fed Cup, the matches don't count on the players' won-loss records. That, my friend, is what is known as an "exhibition."

Exos count!

(You knew that was coming Darrin, the second you made your post. Just like everyone knows there's a reference to Lena's bangs coming. See? There it was).

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:50 PM
:spit: I know enough about you to know you're a hypocrite. You post like you know what is in Venus or Serena's minds or heart regarding their country, Olympics and Fed Cup. You don't know either of them and you don't know how they feel so why are you assuming that you do? :rolleyes:

I don't care who you're a fan of. Ashley wouldn't have done a thing at the Olympics anyway so it was good she knew her own limitations and as a fan, you accept that. Great for the both of you.

Their actions speak loudly enough...

Again you only read things how you want to and you don't understand my ENTIRE POINT. Its not always about winning. It is all about putting your best effort in order to attempt to win for the sake of your country. That is the spirit of the Olympics and Fed Cup. I would rather any American play and lose first round than watch the sisters win all the medals for no other reason than them being able to say they won an Olympic medal for themselves and not for their country.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:51 PM
Thank you. Nothing else has to be said.

:spit:

I'm glad you share their ignorance.

MJMS
Nov 9th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Pennetta :hearts::hearts:

congrats to the italians!!!

miffedmax
Nov 9th, 2009, 05:02 PM
Realistically, if Serena had shown up, the US would still have lost. I'm not sure you pencil her in as an automatic winner over both Flavia and Franny (I can easily see her going 1-1, since both of them are good players and would have been better rested) and she probably wouldn't have played the doubles, which we also lost.

For all the finger pointing and bitching (and despite this, I still wish Serena had shown up), the real issue that Mary Jo and the rest of the USTA need to face is why is there nothing between Serena and Alexa/Melanie to choose from?

I'm a huge fan of Alexa and all, but seriously, that's a big drop off. And there's not a whole lot in the pipeline behind Glatch and Oudin--maybe Stephens. There are a lot of legit reasons that the US isn't producing as many top tier women players as we used to, but the USTA isn't addressing ANY of them. Instead, we get kvetching at the Williams and acting like Oudin is the 2nd coming of Chris Evert (she's more the second coming of Amy Frazier, which isn't bad, but let's be realistic).

I'll admit I don't know what those solutions are, but I'm not getting paid to run a national tennis federation. I do however recognize :bs: when I hear it.

And killer bangs when I :hearts: them.

Paneru
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:11 PM
Their actions speak loudly enough...

Again you only read things how you want to and you don't understand my ENTIRE POINT. Its not always about winning. It is all about putting your best effort in order to attempt to win for the sake of your country. That is the spirit of the Olympics and Fed Cup. I would rather any American play and lose first round than watch the sisters win all the medals for no other reason than them being able to say they won an Olympic medal for themselves and not for their country.

Spoken like a truly ignorant moron!

I guess in 1999 Venus & Serena playing the SF & F helping to take the US to the Fed Cup title was just about themselves.

I guess in 2003 Venus & Serena playing the 1st tie and going 5-0 between the two in singles & doubles was just about themselves.

I guess in 2004 Venus playing the 1st tie where w/o her the US would have lost was just about herself.

I guess in 2005 a year after the Athens Games Venus playing QF & SF, especially carrying the US only a week after her Wimbledon win playing on clay picking up the US's only win was just about herself.

I guess in 2007 Venus playing QF & SF, especially carrying the US only a week after her Wimbledon win picking up the US's two wins was just about herself.


The Sisters, but especially Venus have given much to Fed Cup, and Venus often times to the chagrin of some fans worried about her health usually coming off Wimbledon win where she is beat up but still plays. And often is the only big name that carries the team on her shoulders.
But hey, it's just about themselves.

So please, step off!

Elegante
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:12 PM
Congrats to Italia clay tennis can be so beautiful when performed at the high level.

HRHoliviasmith
Nov 9th, 2009, 06:24 PM
Realistically, if Serena had shown up, the US would still have lost. I'm not sure you pencil her in as an automatic winner over both Flavia and Franny (I can easily see her going 1-1, since both of them are good players and would have been better rested) and she probably wouldn't have played the doubles, which we also lost.

For all the finger pointing and bitching (and despite this, I still wish Serena had shown up), the real issue that Mary Jo and the rest of the USTA need to face is why is there nothing between Serena and Alexa/Melanie to choose from?

I'm a huge fan of Alexa and all, but seriously, that's a big drop off. And there's not a whole lot in the pipeline behind Glatch and Oudin--maybe Stephens. There are a lot of legit reasons that the US isn't producing as many top tier women players as we used to, but the USTA isn't addressing ANY of them. Instead, we get kvetching at the Williams and acting like Oudin is the 2nd coming of Chris Evert (she's more the second coming of Amy Frazier, which isn't bad, but let's be realistic).

I'll admit I don't know what those solutions are, but I'm not getting paid to run a national tennis federation. I do however recognize :bs: when I hear it.

And killer bangs when I :hearts: them.

:yeah: excellent,excellent post!

this might be too much common sense for some people to handle though. :scared:

RVD
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:54 PM
All hail capriati rules. This poster has the insane ability to read players' minds. :eek::lol: :lol: When it comes to Serena, don't they all?
In fact, these complainers actually have the tenacity to believe that they know better than Serena, Serena's family, Serena's doctors and trainers. :haha:

And just reading these illogical and pathetic reasons is making me even more supportive of Serena's decisions.

What I'm reading from the complainers is that they don't care that Serena is hurt or injured.
They don't care that she is fatigued and not in condition to compete at 100%.
They don't care that she has outside interests and appointments that she's contracted to meet.

They just want her to do what they say and play dammit. :haha:

A-MA-ZIING!

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Realistically, if Serena had shown up, the US would still have lost. I'm not sure you pencil her in as an automatic winner over both Flavia and Franny (I can easily see her going 1-1, since both of them are good players and would have been better rested) and she probably wouldn't have played the doubles, which we also lost.

For all the finger pointing and bitching (and despite this, I still wish Serena had shown up), the real issue that Mary Jo and the rest of the USTA need to face is why is there nothing between Serena and Alexa/Melanie to choose from?

I'm a huge fan of Alexa and all, but seriously, that's a big drop off. And there's not a whole lot in the pipeline behind Glatch and Oudin--maybe Stephens. There are a lot of legit reasons that the US isn't producing as many top tier women players as we used to, but the USTA isn't addressing ANY of them. Instead, we get kvetching at the Williams and acting like Oudin is the 2nd coming of Chris Evert (she's more the second coming of Amy Frazier, which isn't bad, but let's be realistic).

I'll admit I don't know what those solutions are, but I'm not getting paid to run a national tennis federation. I do however recognize :bs: when I hear it.

And killer bangs when I :hearts: them.

Miffedmax :sobbing::sobbing::hearts::hearts::worship:
:worship:

RVD
Nov 9th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Realistically, if Serena had shown up, the US would still have lost. I'm not sure you pencil her in as an automatic winner over both Flavia and Franny (I can easily see her going 1-1, since both of them are good players and would have been better rested) and she probably wouldn't have played the doubles, which we also lost.

For all the finger pointing and bitching (and despite this, I still wish Serena had shown up), the real issue that Mary Jo and the rest of the USTA need to face is why is there nothing between Serena and Alexa/Melanie to choose from?

I'm a huge fan of Alexa and all, but seriously, that's a big drop off. And there's not a whole lot in the pipeline behind Glatch and Oudin--maybe Stephens. There are a lot of legit reasons that the US isn't producing as many top tier women players as we used to, but the USTA isn't addressing ANY of them. Instead, we get kvetching at the Williams and acting like Oudin is the 2nd coming of Chris Evert (she's more the second coming of Amy Frazier, which isn't bad, but let's be realistic).

I'll admit I don't know what those solutions are, but I'm not getting paid to run a national tennis federation. I do however recognize :bs: when I hear it.

And killer bangs when I :hearts: them.Damn miffedmax!! :eek:
That was one exceptional post!! :worship:
The "Lena's Bangs" chant is making you one very impressive poster. :lol:

pov
Nov 9th, 2009, 08:17 PM
Realistically, if Serena had shown up, the US would still have lost. I'm not sure you pencil her in as an automatic winner over both Flavia and Franny (I can easily see her going 1-1, since both of them are good players and would have been better rested) and she probably wouldn't have played the doubles, which we also lost.

I think that - as long as she wasn't nursing an injury - Serena Williams would almost certainly have won over both Pennetta and Schiavone, no matter how rested they were.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 08:57 PM
All hail capriati rules. This poster has the insane ability to read players' minds. :eek:

I don't read their minds. I listen to what they say and then see their actions that actually back up what the do say. THANKS BUH BYE :wavey:

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 09:03 PM
:lol: :lol: When it comes to Serena, don't they all?
In fact, these complainers actually have the tenacity to believe that they know better than Serena, Serena's family, Serena's doctors and trainers. :haha:

And just reading these illogical and pathetic reasons is making me even more supportive of Serena's decisions.

What I'm reading from the complainers is that they don't care that Serena is hurt or injured.
They don't care that she is fatigued and not in condition to compete at 100%.
They don't care that she has outside interests and appointments that she's contracted to meet.

They just want her to do what they say and play dammit. :haha:

A-MA-ZIING!


Thank you for proving my point. Why would Serena allow herself to even be nominated when she knew she had outside interests and appointments that she's been contracted to meet? Why did she say that she would be love to play and would if she "wasn't in a wheelchair". Hyperbole or not she needs to step up or keep her mouth shut. If she didn't want to play, or couldn't for any reason or as I've said before many times previously just doesn't give a care about Fed Cup. ALL SHE HAS TO DO IS SAY IT. Don't demand though later to be put on the Olympic team because every 4 years she decides THAT'S when she wants to play for the USA.

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 09:21 PM
Spoken like a truly ignorant moron!

I guess in 1999 Venus & Serena playing the SF & F helping to take the US to the Fed Cup title was just about themselves.

I guess in 2003 Venus & Serena playing the 1st tie and going 5-0 between the two in singles & doubles was just about themselves.

I guess in 2004 Venus playing the 1st tie where w/o her the US would have lost was just about herself.

I guess in 2005 a year after the Athens Games Venus playing QF & SF, especially carrying the US only a week after her Wimbledon win playing on clay picking up the US's only win was just about herself.

I guess in 2007 Venus playing QF & SF, especially carrying the US only a week after her Wimbledon win picking up the US's two wins was just about herself.

The Sisters, but especially Venus have given much to Fed Cup, and Venus often times to the chagrin of some fans worried about her health usually coming off Wimbledon win where she is beat up but still plays. And often is the only big name that carries the team on her shoulders.
But hey, it's just about themselves.

So please, step off!

Needed to for the Olympics. If you're not out for the whole year because of injury then you don't get a pass. I'll consider giving you Venus in 07 though and if you've read my earlier posts in the thread you'll see that I stated all we need is one sister and Huber and I think we'd coast through most rounds. That would mean each sister would have to sacrifice a maximum of 3 weekends the entire season.

RVD
Nov 9th, 2009, 09:38 PM
Thank you for proving my point. Why would Serena allow herself to even be nominated when she knew she had outside interests and appointments that she's been contracted to meet? Why did she say that she would be love to play and would if she "wasn't in a wheelchair". Hyperbole or not she needs to step up or keep her mouth shut. If she didn't want to play, or couldn't for any reason or as I've said before many times previously just doesn't give a care about Fed Cup. ALL SHE HAS TO DO IS SAY IT. Don't demand though later to be put on the Olympic team because every 4 years she decides THAT'S when she wants to play for the USA.This is really interesting.
I feel like I'm teaching a class...
Okay here goes...


Just like all sports professionals, an athlete (who represents him/her -self has certain business obligations that they factor in to there play schedules. Sometimes these appointments are rescheduled and conflict with their regular play schedule, and sometimes these players get sick or injured and miss appointments. :shrug:

Life isn't perfect.
Things happen that are outside of the athlete's control.
You do understand that, don't you?

Next...
What "hyperbole" ? :confused:
Please explain because there must be something in your post or logic that I've missed.

Stepping up is what Serena's done all year long.
When she'd completed her season, she'd played 4 more tournaments more than her yearly average.
AND she'd gone deeper than her opponents at the bigger venues.
She even managed to schedule in a Fed Cup appearance...and committed to it.
However, as stated above, things don't always go as planned.
I'm sorry, but that IS "stepping up".

You sound like a bitter fan of tennis who just discovered that their favorite team suffered a loss because half the players caught the flu. Now do you blame the failure on the doctor, the flu, or the player?

You sound very young in the presentation of you logic.
You particularly sound inexperienced in the ways of Life in general.
I'd suggest looking at the bigger picture before allocating blame in the future.
You'll save yourself lots of embarrassment that way.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 10:02 PM
I don't read their minds. I listen to what they say and then see their actions that actually back up what the do say. THANKS BUH BYE :wavey:

You just omg :help:

When did Serena say that she plays for herself not her country? :confused: Is it her fault that she can contend week in and week out, be a successful businesswoman, an author, travel the world, deal with media attention? Does she not deserve a break on her body? Is it her fault Team USA is probably the least talented team excluding their top ten players? She wanted to play and that was her intention since Wimbledon. People seem to forget that she even said that she would play if she wasn't in a wheelchair, which pretty much meant if she wasn't injured, so she gave the warning. She won Wimbledon singles and doubles, played WTT, played Cincinnati, Stanford, Toronto, USO singles and Doubles. That is 50 Matches in 22 weeks which means she played the most matches out of anybody on Team USA in that stretch. Injuries shouldn't be put into question with Serena as it is clear that that she has numerous injuries throughout her career that have kept her out for an extended period of time. Oudin & Glatch did virtually nothing until the latter stages of the year and Huber only plays doubles so her body is more preserved. Team USA got there without her, so they could have won without her.

Njay16
Nov 9th, 2009, 10:05 PM
Thank you for proving my point. Why would Serena allow herself to even be nominated when she knew she had outside interests and appointments that she's been contracted to meet? Why did she say that she would be love to play and would if she "wasn't in a wheelchair". Hyperbole or not she needs to step up or keep her mouth shut. If she didn't want to play, or couldn't for any reason or as I've said before many times previously just doesn't give a care about Fed Cup. ALL SHE HAS TO DO IS SAY IT. Don't demand though later to be put on the Olympic team because every 4 years she decides THAT'S when she wants to play for the USA.

When has she demanded to be on the team? :confused:

It's better to not show up than actually commit to the team then storm out cause daddy couldn't warm you up. ;)

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 11:10 PM
This is really interesting.
I feel like I'm teaching a class...
Okay here goes...


Just like all sports professionals, an athlete (who represents him/her -self has certain business obligations that they factor in to there play schedules. Sometimes these appointments are rescheduled and conflict with their regular play schedule, and sometimes these players get sick or injured and miss appointments. :shrug:

Life isn't perfect.
Things happen that are outside of the athlete's control.
You do understand that, don't you?

Next...
What "hyperbole" ? :confused:
Please explain because there must be something in your post or logic that I've missed.

Stepping up is what Serena's done all year long.
When she'd completed her season, she'd played 4 more tournaments more than her yearly average.
AND she'd gone deeper than her opponents at the bigger venues.
She even managed to schedule in a Fed Cup appearance...and committed to it.
However, as stated above, things don't always go as planned.
I'm sorry, but that IS "stepping up".

You sound like a bitter fan of tennis who just discovered that their favorite team suffered a loss because half the players caught the flu. Now do you blame the failure on the doctor, the flu, or the player?

You sound very young in the presentation of you logic.
You particularly sound inexperienced in the ways of Life in general.
I'd suggest looking at the bigger picture before allocating blame in the future.
You'll save yourself lots of embarrassment that way.

Don't you dare patronize or lecture you me your condescending jerk. I have no idea who you think you and you definitly have no need to "educate" me on anything nevermind life. I hope you do a lot better educating yourself and your childern and don't patronize them in the same manner.

If Serena stepped up half as much for country as she does for herself then the US would have a lot more Fed Cup titles. IF she did care about her country she would be EMBARASSED we haven't won titles when as she and her sister rightly say have been the top two tennis players in the world but as I've said all along its all about Serena. If she'd just finally admit then everyone would get off her back. Instead she and her sister act like they're fully committed and their fans whine that they aren't embraced by the American people (must be because they're black right?). Maybe if they either did show true commitment and for one year pushed her business to the backburner and played for their country or just came out and said HEY I come first because I want to be a business woman and tennis player and Fed Cup isn't a priority then she'd be a hell of a lot better off. Instead Ms. Serena decides to commit then bail on Fed Cup because of her poor injuries which didn't prevent her from playing and winning YEC or participating in the doubles because those were her real priorities because its all about SERENA and then bailing to attend her book promotion which of course everyone in her camp as well as her knew was booked well in advance. So please tell me SIR, who is the real fool?

Let's get REAL real for a second though. You don't care if they EVER play Fed Cup because you couldn't care less about representing the USA either so really this argument with you is completely pointless. :wavey:

Capriati Rules
Nov 9th, 2009, 11:12 PM
When has she demanded to be on the team? :confused:

It's better to not show up than actually commit to the team then storm out cause daddy couldn't warm you up. ;)

She never stormed out fool...please check your facts and get back to me. I believe Serena did commit and then bailed or am I wrong? That's better?

RVD
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:15 AM
You just omg :help:

When did Serena say that she plays for herself not her country? :confused: Is it her fault that she can contend week in and week out, be a successful businesswoman, an author, travel the world, deal with media attention? Does she not deserve a break on her body? Is it her fault Team USA is probably the least talented team excluding their top ten players? She wanted to play and that was her intention since Wimbledon. People seem to forget that she even said that she would play if she wasn't in a wheelchair, which pretty much meant if she wasn't injured, so she gave the warning. She won Wimbledon singles and doubles, played WTT, played Cincinnati, Stanford, Toronto, USO singles and Doubles. That is 50 Matches in 22 weeks which means she played the most matches out of anybody on Team USA in that stretch. Injuries shouldn't be put into question with Serena as it is clear that that she has numerous injuries throughout her career that have kept her out for an extended period of time. Oudin & Glatch did virtually nothing until the latter stages of the year and Huber only plays doubles so her body is more preserved. Team USA got there without her, so they could have won without her.Aside from the WTT, she also took part in The "BNP Paribas Showdown for the Billie Jean King Cup" in March: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/williamssisters/4933225/Serena-Williams-wins-Billie-Jean-King-Cup.html,
And didn't she also play in Andy Roddick's and Agassi's foundation? :scratch:
(Andy's may have been in late December though)
At any rate, the point is that Serena hasn't just been doing what makes Serena happy; and neither has she been complacent this year.

Posters who have a problem with Serena will have to produce a better argument than what's been presented in this thread. Otherwise, they can only be labeled Haters like many feel that they already are.

RVD
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:21 AM
Don't you dare patronize or lecture you me your condescending jerk. I have no idea who you think you and you definitly have no need to "educate" me on anything nevermind life. I hope you do a lot better educating yourself and your childern and don't patronize them in the same manner.

If Serena stepped up half as much for country as she does for herself then the US would have a lot more Fed Cup titles. IF she did care about her country she would be EMBARASSED we haven't won titles when as she and her sister rightly say have been the top two tennis players in the world but as I've said all along its all about Serena. If she'd just finally admit then everyone would get off her back. Instead she and her sister act like they're fully committed and their fans whine that they aren't embraced by the American people (must be because they're black right?). Maybe if they either did show true commitment and for one year pushed her business to the backburner and played for their country or just came out and said HEY I come first because I want to be a business woman and tennis player and Fed Cup isn't a priority then she'd be a hell of a lot better off. Instead Ms. Serena decides to commit then bail on Fed Cup because of her poor injuries which didn't prevent her from playing and winning YEC or participating in the doubles because those were her real priorities because its all about SERENA and then bailing to attend her book promotion which of course everyone in her camp as well as her knew was booked well in advance. So please tell me SIR, who is the real fool?

Let's get REAL real for a second though. You don't care if they EVER play Fed Cup because you couldn't care less about representing the USA either so really this argument with you is completely pointless. :wavey:You are ignorant and naive, and I've had enough of your pathetic (ill)logical arguments.

If you feel that strongly about Serena not stepping up, fine. You haven't produced a single valid reason, and you just come off as an idiot Hater.
YOU will HAVE to produce the FACTS, and not some ridiculous opinon-based rants as you have in this thread.

Pathetic Hater.
And I'm with Njay16...
Why don't you get your fave player to come out of retirement since Serena is so horrid.

Njay16
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:28 AM
She never stormed out fool...please check your facts and get back to me. I believe Serena did commit and then bailed or am I wrong? That's better?

Oh my bad, I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. She was revoked from the team, thanks for correcting me. :)

tennisbum79
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:33 AM
You are ignorant and naive, and I've had enough of your pathetic (ill)logical arguments.

If you feel that strongly about Serena not stepping up, fine. You haven't produced a single valid reason, and you just come off as an idiot Hater.
YOU will HAVE to produce the FACTS, and not some ridiculous opinon-based rants as you have in this thread.

Pathetic Hater.
And I'm with Njay16...
Why don't you get your fave player to come out of retirement since Serena is so horrid.
Capriati Rules seems to be the kind to person who, when their armuemnt are not convincing, would rather talk louder than make a logical, cogent, logical argument.

In a face to face setting, that might "work" sometimes when the other party buckles under the pressure of physical intimidation.

Unfortunately, when you have yo put words together like in written argument format, that approach is self-defeating as it exposes the shortcomings of the person using it.

tennismaster8820
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:34 AM
Congrats Italy!
Great team!

Slammer7
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:40 AM
Do you not think that Venus or Serena could have won both of their singles matches and then won in doubles paired with Huber? I think they would be favorites against most countries in this scenario with MAYBE the exception of Russia. If you don't then maybe you don't have as much faith in their tennis abilities as me. I'll say it again...they can not play all the want just be honest about it. Also Djokovic did play a tournament albeit in doubles with his brother in Umag post Wimbledon and he didn't have to play Davis Cup. Federer was very open about not wanting to play Davis Cup and concentrate on his singles career. If the sisters did the same thing I'd respect them for it but they don't. Therefore they need to take their lickings and call it a day.

As much as I respect Huber as a doubles specialist, no I don't have faith in an INJURED Venus or Serena collaborating with a player they are not very familiar with on route to a doubled victory. And those ties I sighted were before Huber became a U.S citizen. Federer committed to play Davis Cup for at least 2 months before the tie this February then pulled out about a week before, I call that jerking someones chain. :shrug:

Slammer7
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:47 AM
Team USA won TWO ties this year without the aforementioned "credible players." Care to explain that?

Team U.S.A had the easiest least challenging Fed Cup draw in recent memory. They faced the Czech Republic in the semi where the faced Russia and a Belgian team with Clijsters in the past so :p All kinds of love to Benesova and Safarova but come on there is a reason they are where they are in the echelons of the sport. :shrug:

Uranium
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:54 AM
Team U.S.A had the easiest least challenging Fed Cup draw in recent memory. They faced the Czech Republic in the semi where the faced Russia and a Belgian team with Clijsters in the past so :p All kinds of love to Benesova and Safarova but come on there is a reason they are where they are in the echelons of the sport. :shrug:

Russia last year. (Peer, Obziler, King, Rolle, AMG, Suarez Navarro) Not only was that an easy field to the final, but also to the title.

Slammer7
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:55 AM
I'm glad you share their ignorance.

So someone that doesn't agree with you is ignorant? WOW! That's the hallmark of a great debater the opposition is always stupid. :rolleyes:

Slammer7
Nov 10th, 2009, 12:56 AM
Russia last year. (Peer, Obziler, King, Rolle, AMG, Suarez Navarro) Not only was that an easy field to the final, but also to the title.

Recent memory for the U.S. :p

Njay16
Nov 10th, 2009, 01:07 AM
So someone that doesn't agree with you is ignorant? WOW! That's the hallmark of a great debater the opposition is always stupid. :rolleyes:

Welcome to our world :rolleyes:

Njay16
Nov 10th, 2009, 01:08 AM
Russia last year. (Peer, Obziler, King, Rolle, AMG, Suarez Navarro) Not only was that an easy field to the final, but also to the title.

Uranium :hearts::hearts:

Fabulous Avatar as usual! Everytime I try to get one out of Venus's thread it says it is too big :sad:

Slammer7
Nov 10th, 2009, 01:18 AM
Welcome to our world :rolleyes:


:lol: I know. :hug:

Uranium :hearts::hearts:

Fabulous Avatar as usual! Everytime I try to get one out of Venus's thread it says it is too big :sad:

Just ask someone to re-size it for you they will. :shrug:

pav
Nov 10th, 2009, 01:30 AM
Hell the Willys are patriotic buggers, are they not:confused: